Here is the thing- both sides think we need them. I have been a diehard fan my whole life up to the lockout. It is distasteful. I believe there are many that feel the way I do when I think they will end up realizing how much they need “us” the fans. Both sides fighting over every dollar they haven’t even received yet from us. Who has our best interest at heart? Which side? That’s right, neither.
I agree. That’s really my point. Everyone I see is complaining about the owners not offering enough or the players are asking for too much. I generally go by precedent when a conversation gets that nuanced but it’s a useless conversation. The fact of the matter is that I don’t care who gets what money. They will all be rich. I think if an owner can make money owning a baseball team and a player can make money playing baseball they are lucky. It’s us lowly fans that get screwed. I do think the owners should consider some of the changes MLBPA is offering. At the same time, the players should accept some of the benefits MLB is offering and stop saying “it’s not enough.” Just re-sign the last CBA with very slightly more consideration going to the players. They are supposed to be doing this for the fans. None of them are happy with their “slice of the pie.” Get over it. As far as I’m concerned, all the cheap owners like the Pirates owner and all the Max Scherzer’s of the world making over $43 million a year, both of whom are still whining can all burn in hell. I don’t want to hear a word from either of them and every time they open their mouths it makes me root for them less. Even Alex Wood. The guy has been injured his whole career and still just got a $30 million contract but says, “If you raise the penalty it doesn’t matter if the luxury tax doesn’t kick in until $1,000,000,000.00 a year. It’s a nonstarter.” Is he so stupid that he thinks every team in baseball having the ability to pay a roster up to $1 billion every year with zero tax penalty isn’t a huge win for the players? It’s stupid crap like that which makes me realize why most athletes shouldn’t even try and think about finance. It’s too hard for them. Go throw a baseball and shut up. No one ever paid you for being good at anything else. There’s a clue. You probably aren’t. And as for owners like Angelos, who build terrible teams every year and want to get paid by other teams to do it, the should burn in hell too. If you don’t spend over $100 million a year to your players and you are whining, you can burn in hell. If you make millions of dollars a year playing a game instead of making much less money by saving lives as a doctor and you are whining, you can burn in hell. There are some reasonable people involved in this scenario. The Robert Nutting’s, Peter Angelos, Alex Woods and Max Scherzer’s can all burn in hell for having it much better than anyone else but still whining about it.
For the record… The league could be set up so that there is a zero % luxury tax for each team through the first $1 billion each team spends on annual player salaries and Alex Wood still thinks that’s a bad trade if the penalty tax goes up even 1%. What an idiot. Estimated revenue for all of baseball is about $10 billion a year. That’s entire revenue and doesn’t include the reduction for cost of other employees. MLB could spend $30 billion a year on players alone (triple entire revenue) luxury tax free and stupid Alex Wood thinks that’s bad for the players. He said that himself. He came up with the $1 billion per team, per year figure himself. I can’t believe some athletes are so stupid. Considering they ARE so stupid, I can’t believe they are actually confident enough in their stupid opinions to tell their fans what they are thinking. Does he not realize how many fans are going to think, “Jesus. If athletes are that stupid when it comes to math… Maybe the owners are more trustworthy. I’m sure they are at least better at math than idiot athletes like Alex Wood.”
Go get Titans star wide receiver AJ Brown. He said he wants to play and he was drafted by the Padres. Russell Wilson was drafted by the Rockies and he’s played some exhibition games for the Yankees. Bring back some of the old vets in minor league deals that want to come back anyway. Guys like Yasiel Puig, Bartolo Colon and Pablo Sandoval still want in. Maybe Manny Ramirez, too. See if Rick Porcello would take a minor league deal and find out if Cole Hamels is healthy enough to try and come back through triple A. It wouldn’t be the same but those recognizable names along with some top minor league prospects should make it watchable. They could also start showing minor league games of top draft picks like Jack Lieter from last year and Druw Jones from this year right after they are drafted. Make them count as minor league games but let them play in major league stadiums and wear major league jerseys just to get a taste of what it’s like. If they want institute some fun little rule changes like electronic strike zone and home run derby’s to replace extra innings so fans can see what that’s like. I would watch. I think a lot of fans would watch. Some players would become fan favorites and if the CBA ever gets signed fans would be excited to see whenever their favorite minor league guys get called up. I think it’s a good idea.
Braveslifer you do realize you can watch nearly all of the AAA, AA and A games by getting the Milb package. You can also watch games in the dead of winter when all games are archived.
The way I look at 3 years of team control + 3 years of arbitration:
The first 3 years are a teams way of seeing IF a player has what it take to play in MLB.
-have 1 good/decent year, now prove you can do it again in 2nd year. 3rd year-still the same OR can he take it to the next level.
-next 3 year is when players starts to make life changing $.
-FA is financially securing his whole family, and close friends.
Minor league performance does not translate into MLB success.
Not to mention, not every first year player comes up with the expectations that Torkelson has. Zack Short comes up as a utility fielder and gets the same first year minimum. Is he also underpaid? Some top prospects never develop. Beckham was the top pick for TB and will be in Twins camp as a minor leaguer, hoping for a utility job. Was he underpaid when he failed to produce as a prospect?
Not every guy got an $8.5 M signing bonus. There are plenty of guys drafted in the later rounds, making minimum salary, contributing to their team, where the owners are getting millions from their contribution. In fact, there are more guys like that than there are like Torkelson. Plus, while that signing bonus seems like a lot, it’s a small slice of the pie.
You’re using this argument with the top of the spectrum, and you’re mistakenly comparing their salary to yours rather than to their peers and relative to the amount of revenue they are generating for their clubs.
The only way fans can show their disapproval of both sides is to stop going, stop watching, and stop buying MLB merch. I’m willing to do it for awhile but I doubt there are enough like me.
@wesstl. I’ve been doing it for years now. I just watch the games at the local bar and haven’t bought any merchandise for a long time. Never bought a MLBtv subscription because i seen the money grab it was. Then on top of it all MLBtv still does blackouts! For me when the whole kneeling thing happened a few years back that was it for me. I quit watching NFL Football completely. Then of course the disrespect of the national anthem carried over to what I really love in MLB. I don’t need the 1% rich elite telling me how freaking bad they have it. This is still the best country in the world and they are free to leave.
I agree. Yet I have decided if there is a strike (even for 1day) I’m done. Apathy is the best way to fight greed. Take their dollars away and suddenly the fans become the most important aspect of the game, again.
I can’t believe the Buxton questions. Nobody signs an extension then gets traded in baseball. That person must be an NBA fan to even ask that cuz that’s the only place that happens.
That’s basically what Nolan Arenado did. We all knew he didn’t want to play in colorado any more but he used them to lock in a contract then got himself traded.
How can anyone be in favor of service time manipulation (in addition to being a Tigers fan)? Where have you been these last few years?? Somehow Ford & Illitch, has convinced half of the city, draft capital and prospects is paramount to the game. Embarrassing, absolutely embarrassing.
“Contract extensions, innovative competition, and strong morale, you say? Heck no, I want to be in this endless backwards timeloop of sucking for luck; because only than we have hope.”
Flaherty for Lux??? An ace-level starter (granted, when healthy) still under team control for three more seasons for an unproven player, especially when the Cardinals have four players (DeJong, Sosa, Edman, Gorman) to fill their middle infield positions?
Some (most?) of these trade proposals are so obviously one-sided.
I’ve been reading these chats for years now, and one message that seems consistent is this: Chicago-based teams (and especially the White Sox have) have “ZERO” chance of landing a good player via trade or free agency… like ever.
Oh, and they should trade any young talent they have for stop-gap scrubs in return to fill areas of need.
Hey, look on the bright side– this lockout nonsense could end up being the backdrop of a great new A League of Their Own movie.
Here is the thing- both sides think we need them. I have been a diehard fan my whole life up to the lockout. It is distasteful. I believe there are many that feel the way I do when I think they will end up realizing how much they need “us” the fans. Both sides fighting over every dollar they haven’t even received yet from us. Who has our best interest at heart? Which side? That’s right, neither.
I agree. That’s really my point. Everyone I see is complaining about the owners not offering enough or the players are asking for too much. I generally go by precedent when a conversation gets that nuanced but it’s a useless conversation. The fact of the matter is that I don’t care who gets what money. They will all be rich. I think if an owner can make money owning a baseball team and a player can make money playing baseball they are lucky. It’s us lowly fans that get screwed. I do think the owners should consider some of the changes MLBPA is offering. At the same time, the players should accept some of the benefits MLB is offering and stop saying “it’s not enough.” Just re-sign the last CBA with very slightly more consideration going to the players. They are supposed to be doing this for the fans. None of them are happy with their “slice of the pie.” Get over it. As far as I’m concerned, all the cheap owners like the Pirates owner and all the Max Scherzer’s of the world making over $43 million a year, both of whom are still whining can all burn in hell. I don’t want to hear a word from either of them and every time they open their mouths it makes me root for them less. Even Alex Wood. The guy has been injured his whole career and still just got a $30 million contract but says, “If you raise the penalty it doesn’t matter if the luxury tax doesn’t kick in until $1,000,000,000.00 a year. It’s a nonstarter.” Is he so stupid that he thinks every team in baseball having the ability to pay a roster up to $1 billion every year with zero tax penalty isn’t a huge win for the players? It’s stupid crap like that which makes me realize why most athletes shouldn’t even try and think about finance. It’s too hard for them. Go throw a baseball and shut up. No one ever paid you for being good at anything else. There’s a clue. You probably aren’t. And as for owners like Angelos, who build terrible teams every year and want to get paid by other teams to do it, the should burn in hell too. If you don’t spend over $100 million a year to your players and you are whining, you can burn in hell. If you make millions of dollars a year playing a game instead of making much less money by saving lives as a doctor and you are whining, you can burn in hell. There are some reasonable people involved in this scenario. The Robert Nutting’s, Peter Angelos, Alex Woods and Max Scherzer’s can all burn in hell for having it much better than anyone else but still whining about it.
For the record… The league could be set up so that there is a zero % luxury tax for each team through the first $1 billion each team spends on annual player salaries and Alex Wood still thinks that’s a bad trade if the penalty tax goes up even 1%. What an idiot. Estimated revenue for all of baseball is about $10 billion a year. That’s entire revenue and doesn’t include the reduction for cost of other employees. MLB could spend $30 billion a year on players alone (triple entire revenue) luxury tax free and stupid Alex Wood thinks that’s bad for the players. He said that himself. He came up with the $1 billion per team, per year figure himself. I can’t believe some athletes are so stupid. Considering they ARE so stupid, I can’t believe they are actually confident enough in their stupid opinions to tell their fans what they are thinking. Does he not realize how many fans are going to think, “Jesus. If athletes are that stupid when it comes to math… Maybe the owners are more trustworthy. I’m sure they are at least better at math than idiot athletes like Alex Wood.”
@hammer. Can you imagine Alex Wood taking over Tony Clark’s job in the MLBPA someday?
I need an accountant, you think he’s up for the job?
My thought is to televise AAA and AA games and pay those players the TV money. They play harder than MLB players…
I would watch televised minor league games.
They did that during the ’94 strike. Though it helped that Michael Jordan was playing at the time…
Go get Titans star wide receiver AJ Brown. He said he wants to play and he was drafted by the Padres. Russell Wilson was drafted by the Rockies and he’s played some exhibition games for the Yankees. Bring back some of the old vets in minor league deals that want to come back anyway. Guys like Yasiel Puig, Bartolo Colon and Pablo Sandoval still want in. Maybe Manny Ramirez, too. See if Rick Porcello would take a minor league deal and find out if Cole Hamels is healthy enough to try and come back through triple A. It wouldn’t be the same but those recognizable names along with some top minor league prospects should make it watchable. They could also start showing minor league games of top draft picks like Jack Lieter from last year and Druw Jones from this year right after they are drafted. Make them count as minor league games but let them play in major league stadiums and wear major league jerseys just to get a taste of what it’s like. If they want institute some fun little rule changes like electronic strike zone and home run derby’s to replace extra innings so fans can see what that’s like. I would watch. I think a lot of fans would watch. Some players would become fan favorites and if the CBA ever gets signed fans would be excited to see whenever their favorite minor league guys get called up. I think it’s a good idea.
Braveslifer you do realize you can watch nearly all of the AAA, AA and A games by getting the Milb package. You can also watch games in the dead of winter when all games are archived.
Alvarez is NOT playing fir the Mets this year
That was just name dropping
The way I look at 3 years of team control + 3 years of arbitration:
The first 3 years are a teams way of seeing IF a player has what it take to play in MLB.
-have 1 good/decent year, now prove you can do it again in 2nd year. 3rd year-still the same OR can he take it to the next level.
-next 3 year is when players starts to make life changing $.
-FA is financially securing his whole family, and close friends.
Minor league performance does not translate into MLB success.
torkelson 8.5 million dollar signing bonus, 500 k a year for playing 6 months of baseball…. Vastly under paid. What a joke!!!!
Not to mention, not every first year player comes up with the expectations that Torkelson has. Zack Short comes up as a utility fielder and gets the same first year minimum. Is he also underpaid? Some top prospects never develop. Beckham was the top pick for TB and will be in Twins camp as a minor leaguer, hoping for a utility job. Was he underpaid when he failed to produce as a prospect?
Not every guy got an $8.5 M signing bonus. There are plenty of guys drafted in the later rounds, making minimum salary, contributing to their team, where the owners are getting millions from their contribution. In fact, there are more guys like that than there are like Torkelson. Plus, while that signing bonus seems like a lot, it’s a small slice of the pie.
You’re using this argument with the top of the spectrum, and you’re mistakenly comparing their salary to yours rather than to their peers and relative to the amount of revenue they are generating for their clubs.
The only way fans can show their disapproval of both sides is to stop going, stop watching, and stop buying MLB merch. I’m willing to do it for awhile but I doubt there are enough like me.
@wesstl. I’ve been doing it for years now. I just watch the games at the local bar and haven’t bought any merchandise for a long time. Never bought a MLBtv subscription because i seen the money grab it was. Then on top of it all MLBtv still does blackouts! For me when the whole kneeling thing happened a few years back that was it for me. I quit watching NFL Football completely. Then of course the disrespect of the national anthem carried over to what I really love in MLB. I don’t need the 1% rich elite telling me how freaking bad they have it. This is still the best country in the world and they are free to leave.
I agree. Yet I have decided if there is a strike (even for 1day) I’m done. Apathy is the best way to fight greed. Take their dollars away and suddenly the fans become the most important aspect of the game, again.
So a 3-month owners’ lockout hasn’t run you off but 1-day players’ strike and you’re done? That’s…something.
Yup. A combination of the 2 is not worth supporting.
These Buxton trade questions are puzzling. Doesn’t he have a full no trade clause? Thought that’s what clinched the deal.
I can’t believe the Buxton questions. Nobody signs an extension then gets traded in baseball. That person must be an NBA fan to even ask that cuz that’s the only place that happens.
That’s basically what Nolan Arenado did. We all knew he didn’t want to play in colorado any more but he used them to lock in a contract then got himself traded.
If MLB tried to do a “sign and trade” deal you would have 28 other teams on the phone to Manfred crying collusion
Voit for Olson swap. That has to be a joke right, Yankee fans cant be that delusional correct.
Why did this chat post 19 minutes after it ended on the app? I’m already turning away/not caring about MLB. This doesn’t help!
How can anyone be in favor of service time manipulation (in addition to being a Tigers fan)? Where have you been these last few years?? Somehow Ford & Illitch, has convinced half of the city, draft capital and prospects is paramount to the game. Embarrassing, absolutely embarrassing.
“Contract extensions, innovative competition, and strong morale, you say? Heck no, I want to be in this endless backwards timeloop of sucking for luck; because only than we have hope.”
MLB will be dead, when the drive and soul of the game is not valued by fans.
Flaherty for Lux??? An ace-level starter (granted, when healthy) still under team control for three more seasons for an unproven player, especially when the Cardinals have four players (DeJong, Sosa, Edman, Gorman) to fill their middle infield positions?
Some (most?) of these trade proposals are so obviously one-sided.
I’ve been reading these chats for years now, and one message that seems consistent is this: Chicago-based teams (and especially the White Sox have) have “ZERO” chance of landing a good player via trade or free agency… like ever.
Oh, and they should trade any young talent they have for stop-gap scrubs in return to fill areas of need.
Makes no sense whatsoever.