A lockout is not a strike. You probably already knew that, but in all of my in-person conversations with casual to moderate baseball fans since the lockout began, none of them knew the difference.
A lockout is a work stoppage initiated by ownership. MLB teams locked out the players back in December, and that’s why we aren’t seeing pitchers and catchers reporting to spring training today. If players were to show up at the stadiums, they’d literally find themselves locked out.
A strike is when employees cease going to work as a group. Since Marvin Miller created the Major League Baseball Players Association 56 years ago, the players have gone on strike five times. Let’s take a look at why they elected to do so.
1972 strike – 86 games lost
The union itself was only six years old. The issue at stake is what Miller called a “modest request” of increases in the players’ pensions and health care contribution to keep up with inflation, part of which meant using an existing surplus in the pension fund. In spring of 1972, Miller felt that an agreement was within reach. Then, ownership surprised the players by taking a position of no increase on the pension, and a reduction on health care. Miller saw this as an “unmistakable signal” that “management was baiting us into a strike.”
Two days prior to the expiration of the pension agreement, Miller proposed solving the dispute by using an independent arbitrator, in an attempt to avoid a strike. The owners declined. Miller was concerned the “still young Association” wouldn’t be able to sustain a strike, and advised the players to postpone it and negotiate during the season. Miller found his players to be “positively militant” about going out on strike, however, so that’s what they did. After 13 days of lost revenue, the owners folded and the first strike in professional sports was over.
1980 strike – 92 exhibition games lost
At this point, free agent compensation was the issue at stake. Free agency had only been around for four years, and the owners felt they needed to add restrictions to it. Specifically, owners felt that signing a free agent should require giving up a Major League player as compensation. Faced with this issue, the players voted to cancel the final week of spring training, return to play Opening Day, and possibly strike on Memorial Day weekend in 1980.
Instead, Miller and MLB negotiator Ray Grebey settled all the other issues, including dropping the salary arbitration requirement from three years to two (something MLB considers a non-starter in these 2022 negotiations). The two sides were able to avoid a regular season strike by kicking the can down the road on free agent compensation, forming a study committee. As part of announcing the 1980 agreement, Grebey “poisoned the bargaining well” (in the words of John Helyar in Lords of the Realm) by telling the press the owners’ compensation plan would go into effect in 1981, which was untrue.
While the cancellation of a week of spring training makes this technically count as a strike, no regular season games were missed, and it was more of a prelude to the 1981 strike. Helyar called it “a lull until the next battle.”
1981 strike – 712 games lost
This was the first major strike in baseball history. The aforementioned free agent compensation study committee produced nothing of value. Miller described ownership’s proposal thusly: “A club signing a free agent could very well lose an established player more valuable than the free agent, or lose a prospect with All-Star potential. The scheme was designed to end free agency and would certainly had succeeded if it had gone into effect.” After the committee issued a report with “two diametrically opposed opinions,” the two sides had 30 days to hammer out an agreement in early 1981. That didn’t happen, allowing owners to unilaterally adopt their free agent compensation proposal. The players were only offering a draft pick as compensation, and over this gap, they went on strike.
Miller called the 1981 strike “the most principled I’ve ever been associated with” and “the Association’s finest hour.” He notes that the union was not making demands; it was ownership seeking what he considered excessive free agent compensation. As the strike dragged on, federal mediator Ken Moffett “never got past first base” with his proposals, as Miller put it. Instead, the MLBPA proposed a system where each team could protect 25 players, and all other players would become part of a pool from which teams losing certain free agents could choose. With the owners’ strike insurance running out, this “pool” free agent compensation plan led to a settlement after 50 days. Four years later in 1985 the owners were already asking for the pool compensation plan’s removal.
1985 strike – no games lost
This two-day strike is similar to 1980 in that it technically counts, but no regular season games were lost. By 1985, Marvin Miller was retired “but remained a power in the union,” according to Helyar. Still, Don Fehr was in charge of negotiations for the MLBPA. With the union under new leadership and solidarity of the players waning, the players’ union agreed to “give-backs” for the first time, as arbitration was rolled back to three years instead of two and the pension formula was changed to the players’ detriment. As Miller put it, “For the first time in its almost twenty years of existence, the Players Association took backward steps.” He added, “Either you push forward or you’re going to get pushed back.” Miller felt that Fehr’s error was “in not instilling in the players the determination to fight the good fight.”
1994 strike – 938 regular season games lost, plus cancellation of the playoffs
In 1994, as Helyar put it, “The players rejected a salary cap as repugnant at any price.” Nonetheless, owner of the small market Brewers and acting commissioner Bud Selig was convinced a salary cap was necessary and convinced the other owners to fight for it. Helyar explains, “The players had to go on the offensive, if only for defensive purposes. If no contract was reached by collective bargaining, the Lords could eventually shove the salary cap down their throats. Federal labor law allowed employers to declare a bargaining impasse, after a decent interval for negotiations, and impose employment terms. The players had to try forcing a deal when they still had some leverage – during the season, when lost games meant lost money for the Lords.”
So, the players went on strike on August 12, 1994. Ultimately the rest of the season, including the playoffs, were canceled. Fehr and Selig wound up in court, and Justice Sonia Sotomayor granted an injunction blocking Selig’s intended use of replacement players to start the ’95 season. The status quo was returned and the strike ended.
Why The Players Went On Strike
I worked through this little history lesson to explain the circumstances under which the players went on the three significant strikes in the 56-year history of their union. In 1972, it was because the owners tried to test a young MLBPA by moving backwards on an issue that was key to players at the time, their pension and health care benefits. In 1981, players went on strike because owners demanded a compensation system that would significantly devalue their newly-won right to free agency. In 1994, players went on strike because Bud Selig attempted to force a salary cap. The common thread: in each instance, ownership was attempting to move the players significantly backward.
How The Owners Have Justified The 2022 Lockout
Now let’s tie this into the present dispute. MLB’s lockout is already affecting spring training and could well lead to canceled games in April, so it’s important to understand why they did it. In his December 2 “letter to baseball fans,” Commissioner Rob Manfred provided two reasons why MLB was “forced to commence” a lockout of the players:
- “We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time.”
- “We cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994.”
It’s pretty easy to dismiss the “jumpstart the negotiations” angle, given that MLB waited 42 days between its lockout and its next proposal. In my opinion, some credibility is lost when you say that and then wait that long to make your next offer.
But let’s examine the second point, about how we can’t allow another strike like ’94. I have already established that historically, MLB players going on strike has been rare, and pretty clearly provoked by ownership each time. However, ownership has not done anything to provoke a strike in 2022.
As Manfred put it, “Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals.” Emphasis mine. This is completely true. The MLBPA has plenty of concerns right now with various causes, but they’re not the result of something radical MLB is trying to impose. MLB wants something resembling the status quo. The difference of opinion is on whether the status quo is acceptable.
The Current Issues Are Not Strike-worthy
It’s my opinion that the current differences of opinion, which are mostly in in degrees and not concepts, are not compelling enough to cause the players to strike. Sometimes the degrees of difference are large, like in the case of the competitive balance tax, but it’s still mostly haggling over numbers. To be clear, the idea that the players wouldn’t strike is guesswork based on the historical precedent I’ve laid out in this post. Publicly or even privately, if the players are disinclined to strike over the current differences, they cannot admit it. To do so would be to lose their leverage.
MLB could lift the lockout today and everything would start on time, with negotiations continuing during the season. So for them to keep the lockout in place and risk canceling games, under the justification Manfred provided, MLB really has to feel a midseason strike would have been likely. Let’s game that out and envision a hypothetical strike announcement by MLBPA executive director Tony Clark. For this exercise I’m using the current gaps, even though six months from now those gaps would presumably be smaller.
August 12, 2022: Hypothetical Press Release From Tony Clark On Behalf Of MLB Players
“On this the 28th anniversary of the 1994 strike, I’m devastated to say that MLB players have no choice but to go on strike due to the unreasonable positions of the owners. Our differences are large enough to risk losing the rest of the 2022 season and the World Series if the owners don’t move significantly within the few weeks. Here are the reasons we’re going on strike.
We believe all 30 teams should try to win every year. While we have agreed with MLB on the implementation of a draft lottery, we differ on how many picks should be subject to it (three vs. eight) and whether teams should be penalized for being bad in consecutive years.
We want the best players to be promoted as soon as they’re ready for the Majors. Service time manipulation meant MLB stars like Kris Bryant and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. had their debuts delayed past the point of readiness. Perhaps more importantly to the union, this practice allows teams to control players for nearly seven years instead of the agreed-upon six. MLB has proposed extra draft picks to incentivize teams to put MLB-ready stars on Opening Day rosters, but we don’t think it’s enough to move the needle. We feel that rookies should have the opportunity to earn a full year of service time based on factors like awards voting and WAR. We’re also seeking a $30MM cut in revenue sharing, as we feel these transfers of wealth allow small market teams to be profitable without investing in players and trying to win.
We also believe large market teams should have fewer payroll restrictions. When we agreed in the previous two CBAs to the competitive balance tax increasing by $32MM over a ten-year period, we didn’t anticipate large market teams would treat the base tax threshold as a de facto salary cap. MLB has proposed moving the tax threshold by only $12MM by 2026, but we feel a $63MM increase to $273MM over the next five years is necessary. MLB has proposed increasing the tax rates on overages as well.
As teams have de-emphasized free agency, we need to get players paid earlier in their careers. One key is the minimum salary, which we feel should increase from $570,500 in 2021 to $775,000 in ’22. MLB has proposed $630,000, leaving us $145,000 apart. On a related note, we’re also looking to change salary arbitration so that all players with at least two years are eligible. This would add dozens of players into the arbitration system each year who previously would have been making a salary close to the league minimum.
The third way we’re looking to increase pay for players earlier in their careers is by the implementation of a pre-arbitration bonus pool. MLB has agreed to this concept. We’re proposing each team contribute $3.33MM per year to this pool (a total of $100MM), but MLB is offering only $500K per team (a total of $15MM).
Though the MLBPA is not seeking playoff expansion, we are nonetheless willing to grant MLB an increase to a 12-team field. They’re seeking a 14-team field. We feel that expanded playoffs, plus MLB’s proposed addition of advertising to uniforms, would bring significant additional revenue to the teams.
We find the universal designated hitter to be mutually beneficial, and MLB has agreed to implement it. MLB has also agreed to eliminate the qualifying offer system, which we concede would benefit several players each offseason.
Collective bargaining has been ongoing for nearly 16 months, and we’ve played out the 2022 season without an agreement in place. While we were cautiously optimistic when MLB lifted the lockout six months ago in February, we now feel that our differences are too significant to be resolved through further bargaining. Regretfully, a strike is our only recourse, and we hope it will prompt the required movement from MLB to lead to an agreement and save the ’22 playoffs.”
A Possible Third Motive For MLB’s Lockout
Maybe you’re like me and you can’t see Tony Clark issuing a strike announcement statement similar to the hypothetical I wrote above. Though they wouldn’t admit it, maybe MLB also finds a strike on these grounds to be unlikely. That leads to a third, unstated possible motive for MLB initiating a lockout in December 2021: they did so mainly to gain financial leverage over the players and get a better deal for themselves.
That’s what I think is happening, and it’s MLB’s right to do so. In that case, the current situation boils down to MLB being willing to cancel games in April to get a better agreement.
I know it’s easy to “both sides” the current labor dispute. Feel free to choose from among these commonly-used phrases:
- A pox on both your houses
- Millionaires vs. billionaires
- Where is the fan in all of this
However, only one side can implement a lockout, and only one side can go on strike. Currently, we’re in a lockout, and I don’t think it’s reasonable to blame the players for going on strike unless they actually do, you know, go on strike. If the lockout is lifted and the players go on strike over these issues, then yes, the players would shoulder the lion’s share of responsibility for missed games and/or canceled playoffs. Until then, missed games fall on ownership.
Required baseball labor reading:
- A Whole Different Ball Game by Marvin Miller
- Lords of the Realm by John Helyar
- The Game by Jon Pessah
Fever Pitch Guy
I’m sorry, but any “fan” casual or not who doesn’t know the difference between a lockout and a strike is probably not going to even realize there’s a work stoppage until May or June.
Tim, you need to have conversations with a whole different set of people. My 8-year-old knows the difference between a strike and a lockout. It’s impossible for owners to go on strike, or for employees/players to lockout owners … unless they forcibly take over the teams.
Tim Dierkes
I dunno, a lot of my buddies who like and watch baseball but don’t really read this site, have referred to it as a strike. It is an anecdotal point, though.
Fever Pitch Guy
Most labor disputes are started by striking employees, so I can somewhat see why your buddies would default to the “strike” label.
Regardless, they really should be reading this site. They are missing out.
Vizionaire
a lot of labor disputes start with firing/laying off of certain portion of the labor.
Fever Pitch Guy
I should have worded it better, I meant work stoppages that are the result of labor disputes. Strikes are a lot more common than lockouts.
Robertowannabe
The end result for the fans is the same. A stoppage of the sport. Makes no real difference who instigated the stoppage to the fans. It matters to the parties involved in the dispute but to the fans the result is the same no matter who started the stoppage;
Dorothy_Mantooth
Both sides need to take their time and come to agreement they are both happy about. Put minor league baseball on television until this labor dispute is settled. The MiLB season starts on April 5th this year. Personally, I’d really enjoy watching the next generation of AA & AAA players on a regular basis. The only downside is that minor leaguers who are on the 40-man roster won’t be able to play but there would still be a lot of good, young talent to watch. April MLB baseball is tough to watch anyways, especially in person. One of the main reasons I gave up my Red Sox season tickets is that I couldn’t find anyone to buy the April game tickets off of me. While I love baseball, it’s not meant to be played (or watched) in 35-40 degree weather. I hope the season starts on May 1st and we’re able to watch some minor league ball in the interim. If one side is forced to ‘cave’, we won’t hear the end of it and they are just kicking the can down the road for 5 years. Fix the issues now and make the game better even if it results in some lost games at the beginning of the season. Both sides will feel the pain if this happens.
Patrick OKennedy
I always believed that the first two weeks should be played in warm weather or domed stadiums.
Pads Fans
If there were “good young talent to watch”, people would be going to watch minor league in greater numbers. Most people just don’t, even at the relative bargain prices to see minor league ball games.
Watching many minor league games is already possible. MILB.TV. Why didn’t you subscribe in the past? Because its an inferior product to MLB? Exactly.
College games start in February. So do high school games. If you love baseball, you will go see it when its played, even in April.
MLB can schedule a majority of April games in ballparks with roofs or in the southern states to avoid snowy weather. It used to be that way. Once nepotism took over and an owner’s friend at Sports Scheduling Group was given the job back in 2005 that all stopped. Go back to it. In fact, give the job back to the Stephensons. They were good at it.
Something I read on someone’s post here is that the highest attendance of the year is the week of the home opening series. That is in March or April every year for every team.
In 2019 more fans attended games in April than in September. Maybe that is because so many teams were tanking. Fans said, “my team is out of the race so why go to a game.”
The owners will lose approximately $1.9 billion per month of lost regular season games from TV and gate revenue. That doesn’t include sponsorship revenue or MLB Network,
Each week of lost spring training games will mean $30 million in lost revenue for MLB owners just based on TV and gate revenue.
Players will lose approximately $700 million per month of lost regular season games.
If you hope there are less games, you are not a fan really. Fans want to see more games.
Robertowannabe
There are a lot of fans that pay attention to and watch minor league games. It’s actually a lot of fun to follow draft picks after they get signed and start playing. When I get a little older and retire, I will subscribe and watch a lot of minor league games. Too many games during work or commute now to be cost effective, I do follow on Game Day when I can.
Fever Pitch Guy
gozur – Agreed, I was just trying to explain a possible reason why anyone would assume it’s a MLB strike and not a lockout. Strikes are a lot more common, they’ve been surging in recent years, and owners typically don’t like to initiate work stoppages because it puts a halt to operations that could cause irreparable damage to many non-sports businesses.
Plus a strike during the offseason would have virtually no impact. That would be like amusement park workers going on strike in the middle of winter in upper Canada, meaningless.
Halo11Fan
I hate watching minor games because they can’t throw strikes.
I live in a AAA city. Games are hard to watch.
stymeedone
There will always be teams out of the race in September, with or without tanking. Is your thinking that all rebuilds are tanking?
Fever Pitch Guy
pads – Baseball is a summer and early fall sport, it is not meant to be played in rain or snow or frigid temperatures like football. Sure some people can tolerate the cold better, but I think most baseball fans can’t.
As for April attendance, yes home openers and opening weekends are often one of the biggest draws of the season. But guess what? They would be a big draw no matter what the month. And as long as there’s games played at home, there’s going to be a home opener and opening weekend. So owners will not be losing any revenue if the home opener is in May or June, even factoring in the temporary anger and bitterness that some fans will have against baseball in general.
And baseball fans will often choose NBA or NHL over baseball in April and May if they follow those sports as well, because those games are far more important.
Fever Pitch Guy
Patrick – You’re 100% correct, and it used to be that way.
Off the top of my head, the Pirates & Mets & Red Sox & Indians & Orioles & White Sox are all scheduled to play at home on March 31st.
It’s not just a matter of fan comfort, rainy or snowy conditions could lead to player injuries or the inevitable postponements that often wreak havoc on scheduling.
Halo11Fan
I’m giving you a thumb up just for writing Indians.
gbs42
Why? The team nickname is Guardians.
Yankee Clipper
The Guardians is just such a poor choice of a name… I really feel for their fans, honestly. Name change? Okay. But, Guardians? Nah.
gbs42
YC, I agree Guardians is a poor choice. Very bland. Similar to the Washington Commanders. But those are their names, and it’s time to move forward.
Sunday Lasagna
any given year, 500,000 play High School Baseball, 35,000 play college ball, 3,600 play in the minors.
Just 780 fit on to the rosters of the 30 teams.
It’s interesting to read some of the less than flattering commentary on minor league ball. Those players are phenomally talented. Even the ones that will never see the Majors. It’s only the elite of the elite that get to the Majors.
beyond that…once you are an ‘elite of the elite ‘ and in the majors, it may not last long….
fewer than 10% of the almost 20,000 MLB players in the history of the game made it to 10 years of service to receive a full pension.
Lastraps Baseball
I think Tim does a good job laying out the difference between a lockout and a strike. Having lived in part of the country where unions had a strong presence, I feel people in those areas have a better understanding of how labor and management operate. I now live in another part of the country, and unions are not as present, people don’t have the same grasp on the relationship between unions and ownership groups.
That said, I can see the owners being satisfied to start the season on May 1st. Other then Opening Day, teams that play in the North without a dome stadium don’t start getting solid attendance till May anyways. 133 game season here we come!
CleaverGreene
I agree, a very good job.
Fever Pitch Guy
straps – I think most of us feel the same as you, owners aren’t in a rush so there’s a good chance games begin in May.
Halo11Fan
I’m giving you a thumb up just for writing Indians.
PitcherMeRolling
*Guardians
JoeBrady
A strike and a lockout are really the same thing. Both sides will call one when it is to their best advantage time-wise. All it is is a stoppage of work.
The owners were stupid last time, and allowed the players to dictate the timing. The players took advantage of the owners stupidity (naivety) by going on strike after collecting almost 75% of their salary.
It was really the strike and the loss of the World Series that dictated the lockout. If the players guaranteed they’d play the playoffs, then the owners could guarantee a full season.
acell10
maybe read the article in more detail before coming to the conclusion that they are the same thing
Halo11Fan
You mean the article that is very slanted in favor of the players?
The luxury tax threshold is good for baseball. It makes it much more difficult for the Yankees to buy championships.
This lockout is about paying young players. The owners need to pony up. It’s good for baseball to see the best players on the field.
Robertowannabe
To a fan, it is the same thing. Work stops and no baseball. It really makes no difference to the fans who initiated the stoppage. The only real difference is a lockout before the season controls when the stoppage begins. If the owners did not have a lockout, most likely the union would call a strike mid to late season. Owners and fans would hate that more. Yes, there is a difference to the ownership and the labor but to those that watch the games. it makes no difference who initiates the stoppage as the result is the same. No baseball to see.
Fever Pitch Guy
Halo – The article is not slanted in anyone’s favor, it’s well written and entirely factual.
Like Anon said, the players would agree to playing out the season under 2021 CBA terms. It’s the owners that are willing to sacrifice a portion of the season by dragging their feet. While I don’t agree with the union’s $100M pre-arb pool demand, or their demand to raise the minimum salary to nearly a million dollars, there’s really nothing else they’re asking that isn’t 100% reasonable.
Halo11Fan
Fever Pitch Guy, I disagree, just look at the 1994 strike, it was all on the owners. Where are the quotes from the owners that showed why they needed a cap? Where are the comments about every other sport having a cap?
Anyway, I really don’t think the owners are going to screw this up. I really don’t think we are going to miss games.
Get rid of the loss of draft pick for going over the threshold and pony up to pay young players.
Why go to war for that?
gbs42
gozur, it obviously matters to lots of fans who initiated the stoppage. It does to me.
not alkaline
Thanks for explaining to me exactly where we stand in this labor dispute in language I can understand. Good job.
Ricky from Cleveland
A great article Tim. I am a Unionist – have a Teamster Card and was raised by a lifelong Pipefitter – who in turn was raised by a non-union mine worker who started at age 10 – and eventually became UMW Before becoming a UAW MECHANIC who retired after 30 years right around the time of the ’81 strike.
You are right – technically this is Ownerships lockout – and I am no fan of Manford – but I am angry and do not blame Ownership one bit.
Fans are suffering and a golden era in Baseball – record revenues – amazing athletes – and despite a far more diverse athletic consumer option – even a growing (at least in the Northern hemisphere) international interest – is being choked to death over trivial pursuits and the very finicky technicalities with which you ended an important history lesson.
Why?
AS a lifelong (forget about these Guard’ns) INDIANS FAN – I remember ’94. I was born ten years after we won our last world series – and that Mike Hargrove managed team WAS PLAYING 700.00 ball when they CANCELLED THE POST SEASON.
THEY took that away when we had not had a post-season in over 30 years.
Eventually that team had a great run- no WS wins – but – awesome ownership rewarded with over 700+ home sellouts and nearly yearly post season appearances.
It sucked but they had a reason in ’94. IT sucks now and what makes it so much worse is they don’t have a clue let alone a reason –
-just two bad PLA agreements worth of accumulated petty resentments – all brought on by amateurs.
If you want a history lesson that is more appropriate, try this; rather than resenting Owners for negotiating successively better and better deals at PLAYERS EXPENSE – THOSE PLAYERS should have FIRED THE AMATEURS WHO FAILED THEM.
THIS IS WAY PAST STUPID. It has degenerated into a war of the roses nasty divorce – with each side determined to see the other annihilated – and – they just might wind up getting what they want.
TONY CLARK AND HIS ENTIRE CREW COULDN’T NEGOTIATE A FREE LUNCH……………………BUT. They have proven they can screw up a free lunch.
WHAT these athletes are going to rue is the lesson that this is a far more diverse marketplace for consumers to spend their sports entertainment dollars than it was in ’94- and – parents determined to teach their children the value of character building in sports participation as well.
It is sad, disgusting, and infuriating. AND not the rich white guys who own the team’s problem.
gbs42
Ricky,
I appreciate your history and perspective on this situation.
My response, though, is since the players screwed up so badly the last 2-3 CBAs, should they just accept the new norm and continue to get a bad deal, or should they push back – like their strong leader Marvin Miller had them do once upon a time – and try to regain some of their lost position?
I understand everyone is making much more money than they were decades ago, but the players are the workers and the product, and they’ve seen their percentage of revenues plummet in the last 15-20 years. I’d like to see that change. Just because everyone is rich now doesn’t mean the players shouldn’t fight for what they think is right.
Ricky from Cleveland
I don’t see anything to disagree about Gbs – but it’s awful late in the extra innings game now, isn’t it?
Please me why these Players won’t they end up eating this PLA when they had to eat the last 2?
Obviously, I believe they will because they have idiots at the table playing with somebody else’s money. They are screwed until they hire capable adults to represent them.
gbs42
They did hire new a lead negotiator, Bruce Meyer, who is very experienced in sports labor. While I don’t like lost games, it seems that’s what it’s going to take to get the pendulum to start swinging back the other direction.
Weasel 2
Agreed Fever.
The owners do a good job labeling themselves as “the League” making it sound like the players are trying to be fit at the expense of “the League”.
But it’s really employees vs 30 owners. And the owners want to keep all of the revenue they can.
After all the owners are billionaires they didn’t get there by being nice or even acting fairly.
But until an owner goes bankrupt from owning a team we shouldn’t have any sympathy for them.
NY_Yankee
The worst possible scenario is the season gets shut down in August, which eventually led to the Montreal Expos moving to Washington. I am one of those who actually believes that no season at all is a real possibility. If it is really crucial for the players to change the entire system in one shot, that is the one way it can happen. Of course, the danger is that there are a number of teams that would just as soon not play a season ( Oakland being just one example), and such a maneuver could make even teams doing well like the Dodgers become more hard line not to mention alienating even more fans.
Tim Dierkes
I guess my point is that the players aren’t really trying to change the entire system right now. The only conceptual things still on the table are whether there will be more arb eligible players and whether players can compel owners to reduce revenue sharing. Each side has already “agreed” to big conceptual changes: moving to a draft lottery, creating a pre-arb bonus pool, and expanding the playoffs.
If the players were totally stuck on, say, five-year free agency, I’d probably be saying, “OK, these guys really might go on strike.” But they dropped that pretty fast.
Fever Pitch Guy
Owners should compel owners to reduce revenue sharing, unless the sharing recipients start being required to invest the shared revenue in player payroll.
I think most everyone, big revenue teams and all players and all fans, are tired of seeing small market teams simply pocket the revenue sharing they are receiving. That needs to stop.
balloonknots
I think the smart fans and fans of competitive small market teams who can’t afford a real stadium would argue with that and are tired of large market teams treating the luxury tax threshold as a way to pocket more money and not spend. Specially the Yankees
Yankee Clipper
Balloon: Yes, precisely! That’s why I am confused when small market teams & fans come out so strongly in support of a cap or faux cap. It’s just an excuse for large market ownership to pocket exponentially more money, and it’s actually detrimental to their own small market in the long run.
stymeedone
Teams have more expenses than just payroll of the major league club. Its the large market teams that are actually pocketing money because payroll is limited by the CBT for them. Most small market teams have to cover the same stadium and minor league costs as the big markets, but with less revenue. If some of that revenue sharing goes to paying off those expenses, it still keeps 40 additional players employed. Payroll is a percentage of revenue, and the revenue sharing payment is part of that. If payroll is expected to be 50% of payroll, for instance, than 50% of the revenue sharing should go towards payroll.
Fever Pitch Guy
Knots – You think small market fans are okay with their team pocketing revenue sharing? Really?
averagejoe15
How is a large market team making more money detrimental to a small market team?
A cap makes it so all teams will value players more similarly and allows smaller market teams to better compete for talent by reducing the total dollars available in the market.
Whether the Yankees make $100M in profit or $300M doesn’t make much of a difference to the small market team.
baseball1010
George Steinbrenner was 100% against revenue sharing. He said those owners bought small market teams and questioned why he had to give them money to stay afloat. There are two many franchises. California has 5 MLB teams. MLB expanded to pay the fine for colluding against free agent players. There is more revenue from TV contracts than ticket sales.
Yankee Clipper
Oh, how we miss George sometimes…
baseball1010
He loved to win.
Patrick OKennedy
AT LEAST every dollar of net revenue sharing distribution should go toward player salaries above the minimum amount. Players should propose that and drop their demand that revenue sharing be cut by $30M.
Players have had a knee jerk reaction to a salary floor as if it’s just the flip side of the salary cap coin, so they won’t touch it. They should have picked up the owners’ proposal and spit it back at them but with a $240 million tax threshold instead of $180M. They screwed it up, IMO.
Dorothy_Mantooth
@stymeedone – You are 100% correct! Teams have a lot more expenses than just players salaries. If you look at the Atlanta Braves financials, they had ~$150M in player salaries and that $150M made up less than 33% of their total expenses! Between the draft and IFA, teams are ‘forced’ to spend $15M per year on new players and they have about a 20% chance of ever playing in the majors, let alone becoming above average players or stars. So teams are ‘wasting’ $10M per year on drafting/signing players who will never see an MLB field. There are so many more expenses above and beyond payroll: front office salaries, minor league expenses, park operating expenses, utilities, travel expenses, scouting, etc. Some of the lower revenue teams need revenue sharing just to pay the bills. I don’t ever foresee MLB forcing revenue sharing recipients to spend 100% of that money on salaries. These teams could say they are already doing that anyways. If the Braves are a decent barometer of the other MLB teams’ expenses, non player expenses and non-player salaries make up much more of the team’s expenses than players salaries do. Small market teams need this money to just stay afloat.
Patrick OKennedy
Also, part of that revenue sharing money is their money to begin with. Every team, even the poorest team, pays into the kitty, then gets 1/30th back.
What should be spent on player salaries is the net distribution. Essentially the money that about 18 teams get back from other teams in the aggregate.
Still, the reality is that every team gets $60.4 million from just national TV
Plus at least 33M from the MLB media kitty
Plus at least 20M from the half of local TV revenue that they keep
Plus at least 118M (in 2018) from the revenue sharing part of local revenues
Subtotal 231M per year, and that’s for the Brewers, who have the smallest amount from Local TV
That’s before selling a single ticket, hot dog, beer, or parking space
Plus playoff revenue
Plus brand new patches on uniforms
They can afford more than the payrolls under 100M that we see across the game
Cosmo2
How would you enforce this? I keep hearing this suggested- force teams spend the entirety of revenue sharing on new payroll but how do you enforce that? Teams will just cut payroll in advance in anticipation of having to spend the new money coming. I just see no practical way of enforcing what money goes where in a spot like this.
WT2
And this doesn’t count how much more money owners are about to make now that gambling is allowed is many states.
Yankee Clipper
That’s why I think to enforce spending is much tougher than to incentivize winning by not calling spending. Look, owners will make more money winning, and they want incentives to continue. So, if they spend more and it provides a better chance to win, then they will make more too. It’s only natural they will all spend more, make more, and consequently have more of a “pot” from which to share.
Patrick OKennedy
Here is how you enforce it
If they don’t submit the contracts to MLB that shows they spent it on player salaries, they don’t get the money to spend.
Each team pays 48% of local net revenues into the pool
That’s gate receipts, tickets, concessions, parking, licensing, merchandise, etc
Minus stadium expenses including debt service
Then each team gets 1/30th of the total
With some penalties for repeat violators of the CBT
So when it comes time to cut those checks, teams wold have to have a certain amount in contracts above the minimum salary (which is the total amount over about 18M if the minimum is 700K)
Cosmo2
But there is no way to tell what money is spent where. Teams will just reduce payroll in advance. Best you can do is force them to spend at least the amount of revenue sharing each off season which might slightly increase a few teams payroll but not much. Plus, teams will complain that they need some of the money to stay afloat before they even get to salaries. No way to force teams to actually add the revenue sharing amount atop what they’d normally spend. I mean, your idea is a good one but it’s more of just a minimum base. Maybe I’m nitpicking but a minimum payroll could be enforced, not the actual spending of certain money though.
Pickles McGee
Forced? Oh, please. Every sport creates systems to distribute young talent and every sport weighs the early value of their services at a price low enough to easily recoup the money spent.
Cosmo2
Not sure what you’re saying. I’ve no problem with a system to ensure talent distribution, I just think it has to be done in a way that could work in the real world.
Patrick OKennedy
So if the revenue sharing checks are $118M per team (which it was in 2018), and minimum salaries for 26 players is $18.2 Million, that leaves $100 million to be spent on player salaries above the minimum.
Sign some free agents, give out some contract extensions, whatever. Just try to improve the team on the field.
And hey- they don’t HAVE to take the money, but if they don’t spend it, they don’t get it.
all in the suit that you wear
I think you make sense, Cosmo.
NostraThomas
I don’t know that. If by spending $5, I might make $10 if it works properly, but if I spend $2 I know I’m going to make $3.50 no matter what? Most trams would rather spend the $2.
baseball1010
If minor league contracts were shortened from 7 years to 4 years there would be more proven talent available to small market teams. Rule 5 is only a partial aid to smaller market teams.
User 2079935927
Why the knock on CA having too many teams? Every team draws well.
Except the A’s. That should change if they get the new ball park, Did you know at one time they were considering making the PCL a 3rd Major League to along with the AL and NL.???
Not a clever name
California Has a population and is geographically about as the same size as PA NY and MA combined. If 5 teams are too many for CA than 5 teams in that state are as well, given the Pirates recent history that may be true however.
CleaverGreene
I think proving they are pocketing the $$ is tough to prove, They are allowed to use the dollars to improve the product on the field, which includes player development.
I think the owners should get the abusers, not necessarily rule breakers, in line. Pirates, A’s,Guardians and Orioles come to mind.
This sounds crazy, but the owners should construct their own minimum payroll with revenue sharing penalties.
JoeBrady
Fever Pitch Guy
That needs to stop.
================================
I don’t know that anyone knows for sure that the owners are simply pocketing the revenue sharing. Part of the issue is the non-linearity of the spending. The bottom 3 for 2022 are CL, KC & PT. But CL has spent as much as $150M, KC quite a bit more than $150M, and PT as much as $116M. As a fan, I’d prefer spending less when we are bad and more when we are good.
But that’s not the important part. The important part is, why does it need to stop? Most of the small market teams cycle in and out of good/bad teams, and nothing can be done about that.
So why would anyone care whether the owners spend $50M one season and $150M two years later?
JoeBrady
Yankee Clipper
it’s actually detrimental to their own small market in the long run.
================================
Why is it detrimental to TB that the NYY are discouraged from spending $300M in salary? The NYY adding Correa & Freeman certainly increases their chances of catching TB, and if they opt to give Correa $360M/12, it makes it that much harder for the TBs of the world to extend guys like Franco.
balloonknots
Because the small markets need 1 competitive balance and the large markets to put more into revenue sharing by spending over the lux cap. Simple
balloonknots
That’s easy – large market teams that have used it as a cap have invited competition like the Rays eating the redsox and Yankees up over the last 14 years – should not happen as often as it does. Also the lux tax revenue sharing piece helps the small markets save up for a new stadium and finding more players from international scouting – but seeing your comments you seem to be more in favor of reducing league to the 10 large markets only and not expand the sport across the nation and Canada.
baseball1010
MLB total attendance has declined in six of the last seven seasons. (This is 2019 and earlier.) I did not use the Covid years. Not knocking Calif. for having 5 teams, but as you noted one of them does not draw well. I did not know they thought about making the PCL part of MLB. In the 60’s you had a hard time getting a ticket to a Dodger or Giant game. Just of the opinion that there are teams that are not very competitive.
balloonknots
I feel the opposite is true. A cap or fake cap but truly a cap allows 4 better competition, hence we have seen small cap teams make runs consistently which is great for the sport. Now if they blow by the cap and pay the tax that is even better for all teams in the form of revenue sharing. Now no cap and no revenue sharing don’t see how that helps anyone – rich teams might as well play alone and move small markets to minor leagues.
HalosHeavenJJ
Perhaps a topic for another article, but doesn’t the players stance on reducing revenue sharing fly in the face of their supposed support for a more competitive game? After all, reducing the amount of capital the small market teams have available is just going to put them at a bigger competitive disadvantage.
Granted the owners of the Pirates, A’s, etc. just pocket the money. Perhaps they are giving up on the teams doing what they are supposed to do.
averagejoe15
No because their theory is that revenue sharing allows teams to be profitable without having to win. By reducing revenue sharing you increase the incentive for teams to draw fans and make the playoffs for the additional revenue.
Fever Pitch Guy
Halos – I think the MLBPA’s stance is that if small market teams are unwilling to spend the revenue sharing they are receiving, then let the big revenue teams keep the money because they are far more likely to spend it.
The players just want as much of the revenue as possible spent on payroll, can’t blame ’em for that.
mstrchef13
I think from the union perspective, a proposed salary floor would affect both the issue of competitiveness and the issue of revenue sharing, since theoretically the salary floor would force teams receiving shared revenue to spend much more of it on payroll. Their stance regarding salary tax and minimum salary is more of a conundrum to me. The tax appears to limit teams’ willingness to spend on top-of-the-high-end salaries, which is maybe a dozen players while the minimum salary affect nearly half of the union membership. I wonder if they could give in on the tax in exchange for a significant minimum salary increase for first and second year players, and if ownership would take that.
SuperSloth
Fever, I think it has more to do with just not wanting the owners to benefit from actions that don’t progress the competitiveness of the sport.
PitcherMeRolling
The players don’t want any deterrents to offering free agent contracts. Draft pick compensation and CBT penalties limit free agent spending.
When players use the term “competitive”, they mean calling up players when they’re ready and spending to win.
User 2079935927
Why the knock on CA having too many teams? Every team draws well.
Except the A’s. That should change if they get the new ball park, Did you know at one time they were considering making the PCL a 3rd Major League to along with the AL and NL.???
48-team MLB
I’ve never heard of the PCL. I’ve only heard of the Continental League, which was a proposed third league around the late ’50s and early ’60s but they simply added expansion teams instead.
For Love of the Game
Tim, rewind back to December 1. The MLBPA had a long list of demands, and apparently owners felt they were too far apart to expect a prompt agreement. Players have backed off many of their initial demands, but there is no guarantee they wouldn’t come back to them once owners were in a vulnerable situation (midseason). It takes two to tango.
Tim Dierkes
Yes, both sides had more extreme positions initially, like MLB wanting a $180MM salary cap to go with a payroll floor.
Fair to say MLB loses some leverage if they lift the lockout, but they also may lose revenue if they don’t.
BlueSkies_LA
Your optimism is appreciated but I believe we’d have seen more progress if the sides were taking reconcilable positions. They might even agree to kick the can down the road on some of the more difficult issues if there was even a small amount of trust between them but you’ve shown how little of that remains.
topchuckie
Tim, MLB really was willing to institute a floor if the players accepted the $180 cap? If so, I think the players made a mistake not negotiating on that basis. Just get the floor approved and then worry about raising both.
NY_Yankee
Scott Boras has talked about the need to change the system, and quite a few Boras clients are high up in the Players Association. The longer this goes on, the more entrenched both sides become.
seth3120
They may not be trying to change the entire system in most areas but the increases they are seeking are far larger than the previous handful of deals. I’m not picking sides really there was a time where percentage wise what they are asking was granted. I think the bulk of the season is in serious jeopardy. There are a few big changes the players are seeking and the ones that they seem content to live with MLB and the union are miles apart in figures. Common ground needs to take some big steps so far we are seeing proposals slightly raised or lowered when the gap is enormous. That’s a sign of the two dug in deep which doesn’t bode well for a quick resolution. The CBA is far more complex than comparing to previous strikes. I think the players made a lot of headway for a lot of years then gave in a little more than usual and are looking to get a big chunk back. In some ways I can’t blame them. Teams are operated extremely intelligently with their evaluations and budgeting. I think they’re playing the system very well and the players have taken notice. The crack down on steroids has also led to shorter careers so players want to be paid earlier in their careers when they are peaking not hitting free agency when the concern for decline becomes so greater. I just look at the proposals from each side and I’m always left with the feeling not much movement has come from either side. Until I see a proposal with major dollar figure changes I’m absolutely on the pessimistic side
seth3120
I am super concerned about a long term work stoppage and the damage we’ve seen it can do. When you have a proposal of mlbpa seeking 110-120m increase in one area and mlb offering 10m then counter proposals basically offering to back off 5m or so each that’s about as close to zero progress as it gets. While some players are getting paid enormous sums I do see some definite need for some change especially with tanking and with controllable years/service time manipulation due to players peaks earlier/shorter post steroid era. My issue with the players negotiation tactics is they seem to want to adjust a ton at once and at big dollar figures and those deals rarely get done. It’ll take at least a couple cbas for the players to fix most of their grievances. I think they need to narrow what they feel need drastic changes quickest and owners need to drastically come their way in those areas. But there’s the number of changes they seem to be seeking(right or wrong)at the figures they’re seeking are very unlikely to lead to a deal. They very well could get most of those things but owners are very unlikely to agree in one cba. It’s too dramatic a sway in economics in too short of a period and would set a precedent the owners will surely want to avoid. A shortened or canceled season is bad for all parties a change in tactics is a must and I think focusing on less but with big gains in the most important areas is a win for both and players will have moved ownership enough to revisit somethings they’d have liked to have seen changed in this cba next go around. If they prioritize and ownership is willing to come a good ways on key issues we may get this season close to 162 and expanded playoffs but if players ask for too many areas of change in large sums there’s no telling how much baseball will be missed.
Randomuser4567
You can say they’re not trying to change the entire system that seems reasonable. I do think they’re trying to dramatically change the elements they’re concerned with, though.
PitcherMeRolling
The players aren’t trying to change the whole system. They aren’t even asking for any drastic changes.
For Love of the Game
Pitch, the MLBPA initially took positions that were at least as severe as the owners. In fact, the owners’ positions were and are less severe by definition – owners were willing to maintain the status quo.
Patrick OKennedy
Free agency
Owners proposed abolishing 6 year requirement for free agency
Replace with age 29-1/2, which would leave many players under control for 7- 10 years
Players proposed most still six year required
Those age 30-1/2, then 30, then 29-1/2 over 3 years become FA with 5 years time
Arbitration
Owners proposed abolishing arbitration, replace with an algorithm
Players proposed moving the eligibility back to 2 years, where it was for 15 years
CBT
Owners propose increasing just one percent per year for 5 years
Increase taxes by more than double
Add new draft pick penalties
All for first time over the tax threshold
Players propose increase in the tax threshold of 35M in each tier
All tax brackets remain the same
Eliminate draft penalty
Owners want playoff expansion to 14 teams, players want 12
The owners’ proposals look more drastic to me on each issue
PitcherMeRolling
@forloveofthegame The owners have suggested several changes that are far more drastic than anything the players have asked for. Look at Patrick’s post. He lays it out pretty plainly.
bjsguess
— For MANY players, hitting FA at 29.5 years of age would be a huge benefit. Those hurt would be the superstars. I don’t have the numbers right in front of me, but I think the median age of players for when they broke in the majors was 25-26. I honestly don’t know why the owners would want this as I suspect the net overall impact would be more money out of their pockets.
— The owners put forward a model for arbitration to pay for performance. Doesn’t hurt or help players – just creates more predictability for everyone. The current system is broken, both sides agree on that, and I applaud the owners for thinking outside the box.
— The biggest issue, that was completely missed in the analysis, was the player’s proposal to have the owners kick in $115M/year in net new money. The players weren’t offering anything in exchange. That is a HUGE new expense.
— The luxury tax being raised by $35M is also HUGE. When it’s going up 1-2% and you want to hike it 15% that seems very unreasonable … again with no concessions on their part.
Catuli Carl
Well they aren’t meeting the owners halfway either. They keep immediately rejecting any proposed compromise and showing up to meetings for 30 minutes and leaving.
The_Voice_Of_REASON
Another great article Tim- thanks. And I SUPPORT THE OWNERS!
Superstar Prospect Wander Javier
Why?
BlueSkies_LA
He hates baseball and has to come here to tell us under an never-ending stream of different screen names.
User 2079935927
He probably a owner.
Cosmo2
I personally do not see that the players have a moral high ground here. It is basically billionaires vs millionaires in a business that already is more owner unfriendly than any normal industry. Then it comes down to millionaires complaining as if being paid less millions than you think you’re worth is a battle on par with working folks’ unions fighting for actual needs.
DarkSide830
bingo. people will always give the players the benefit of the doubt in any situation because of non-sensical arguments like “I don’t go to watch the players” and “id rather support millionaires over billionaires” when those are just such vast oversimplifications of the system. the idea that the players are in the right because of trite comments such as those simply does not follow.
acell10
actually the trite comment is millionaires vs billionaires then blaming the labor force for wanting to be paid in a compensatory to their value while the billionaires refuse to open their books. I highly doubt anyone is implying that this fight is on part with working class folks but to immediately dismiss the claims of labor simply because they make significantly more money than working class folks is the oversimplification,
The_Voice_Of_REASON
Minimum salary is in the top 1% of income and average salary (more than $4 million!) is in the top 1/10th of 1% for playing a game with a stick and a ball and mittens 7-8 months per year and lifetime benefits after 6 weeks on a MLB roster. There’s still college baseball to watch and adult rec softball and baseball to be played. The “men” who play in MLB: tone deaf, spoiled, selfish, greedy, ungrateful, unneeded, and despicable (with some exceptions), and hangers-on of a culturally irrelevant sport on top of that. Enough is enough!
Yankee Clipper
Voice of Reason: Which aspect(s) of the sport of baseball is culturally irrelevant? Honest question, just trying to follow as you’ve claimed that in prior statements. Baseball has players from many different cultures, ethnicities, and races, which seems, at least to me, to be culturally relevant in its inclusion of players from around the globe. It’s also an international sport….
The_Voice_Of_REASON
The average American doesn’t even know who Mike Trout is and little league fields have been transitioned to other sports fields for years and years now and little leagues have been combining and going defunct because of lack of interest- especially in the last 2 decades. It’s ‘popular’ (in a certain way) in the western hemisphere only because of it being a way out of poverty. It’s culturally irrelevant. There could be no season at all and the country would barely even notice or care, and not even most baseball fans would really care that much at this point, at least not compared to 1995. There wouldn’t be anywhere remotely close to that level of anger from the remaining fans, and you know it.
Yankee Clipper
Hm, alright, I guess it may depend on the geographical area of the country because I don’t see it the same way where I live & have lived. Baseball, as much or much more so than the other major sports, is a vital part of the community and they’re building new little league fields, not requisitioning old ones for transition to soccer, or whatever.
But, I get that’s anecdotal as well. I do agree that it isn’t a crucial part of the fabric of society, outside of that which sports are already acknowledged to be, which is why I think this is such a dangerous game for both sides to play. It can be a lose-lose situation quickly for them, from which they may not recover.
The_Voice_Of_REASON
It’s a boutique sport at this point that’s still popular in a geographical region here or there, but it’s ultimately a boutique sport at this point- totally different from the situation of the last labor dispute and on the way out more and more with each passing year.
Yankee Clipper
I agree that it’s a different position than ‘94 for a few reasons, one of which is the growth in fandom of other major sports.
Baseball is still incredibly popular and doing exceptionally well, but if they’re not careful, they may soon test your hypothesis that the public won’t care. If that’s true, as I said, they won’t recover.
The_Voice_Of_REASON
Oldest fanbase of the major sports and on the way out more and more with each passing year. It only seems to be doing somewhat well because it has the oldest and richest average fans. It’s on the way out compared with the major sports- even when the greater number of entertainment options in general is factored. It will soon enough be at the level of hockey, if that. Hockey could easily overtake it as well at some point. Right now, it’s a very, very distant 3rd to football and basketball in terms of cultural relevance/popularity/youth enthusiasm. In fact, in terms of youth enthusiasm, soccer may have already overtaken it. But maybe not.
Yankee Clipper
Hockey’s a great sport also. Love hockey, miss playing.
The_Voice_Of_REASON
It is a great sport- I played it before I even played baseball but I was a late bloomer in terms of growth so I never made it beyond the instructional league and switched to just baseball at 8 or 9.
Yankee Clipper
Cool, man. Best times of my life. Well, good talking with you, God Bless.
The_Voice_Of_REASON
You too- God Bless.
User 2079935927
Really? you said in one of your other boring responses that Hockey may have taken over Baseball in popularity. Go to Hockey Rumors and see how many responses any article gets. Maybe 4 or 5. While here on MLB Trade Rumors just about any article get a hundred or so. And your comment the average American doesn’t know who Mike Trout is? Oh Brother….
acell10
he mostly just incoherently rambles about how “greedy” players are then makes false equivalencies while supporting billionaires that wouldn’t pee on him if he was on fire and he didn’t dissapoint
PitcherMeRolling
He got addicted to shoe polish in the navy and it’s been all licking boots ever since.
Yankee Clipper
He does like the owners of baseball though.
BlueSkies_LA
They bought him lunch. Some people will do anything for a free lunch.
Yankee Clipper
Some people……
Sunday Lasagna
I love the game, and I am certainly not looking to make the rich owners even more rich, but the players have pushed too far. 1972, 1980, 1981, 1985, & 1994, I was 100% behind the players. But what they now gain from entertaining fans is more than reasonable. They don’t deserve more.
Yankee Clipper
“ They don’t deserve more.”
This is one statement that epitomizes a mistake in how we view either side of this debate, imho. It’s not about who we believe “deserves” more of that huge pie, because if we take that to its logical extreme, the fans don’t “deserve” to pay far more when ownership is raking in profits, yet doing everything in their power cut expenditures even at the expense of true competition.
My point is…who deserves more is really subjective & relative. As long as both sides agree, they both deserve what they agree to. In this fight, they are both unwilling to see the forest for the trees, imo, and neither side care about the two most critical components: the game itself and the fans.
Sunday Lasagna
@Yankee Clipper great point, I agree.
30 Parks
Great article. To see it all laid out that way does not breed optimism. The Hatfields & McCoys had fewer contentious dealings.
KingTiger
It is a disgrace that Bud Selig is in the Hall of Fame.
Canceling the World Series in 1994 should have earned him a lifetime ban from MLB.
He aided ad abetted the whole PED situation, and he silently sits in hallowed ground not speaking up for the benefit of the players that got him there.
Worst commissioner EVER!
AshamedMethGoat
I wholeheartedly support the players, as I always have. And a good part of that comes from Tim’s excellent historical synopsis. Going back even further, the business of baseball has always been marred by the owners absolutely trying to jam the players who are the game from which they all profit. The historical record shows often malicious treatment by the owners, the stench of which poisons the relationship of the owners and players, even to this day.
If the players need to strike to get an equitable deal, so be it.
And I say this as someone who is generally anti-union, as most are corrupt and no longer serve the interests of their members. This is one of the very few instances in which I feel a strong union is a necessity.
Catuli Carl
Yes it’s an utter necessity. Without the union, those players would be toiling away dawn til dusk, working in terrible conditions, losing fingers and limbs.
Their oppression from the capitalist pigs would be inhumane,
Yes it’s the baseball players, not other types of workers, who especially need a union.
AshamedMethGoat
Context much, Carl?
PitcherMeRolling
Carl, do you think there are a finite number of unions and somewhere a blue collar is underpaid because baseball stole their union?
TomTom
Great Article Tim! thanks
Really hoping the lockout gets lifted really soon, it would be a disgrace to miss baseball games.
blueboy714
Excellent article. This is why I subscribe to MLB Trade Rumors
Pete'sView
Thank you, Tim. This retrospective really gave me a clearer perspective of how we got here. I usually favor unions and this post definitely sways me in that direction, although it’s hard to feel sorry for Major League players averaging $4.8M annually.
Nevertheless, the owners are raking money in and should be willing to concede the areas that support the first year and younger players.
averagejoe15
Average isn’t a good representation of the average major leaguer’s salary though. I bet the median is a lot closer to league minimum.
linxuhe
Jay Jaffe put out an article on FG yesterday where he cited the median salary as 1.15M.
Patrick OKennedy
Median is 1.15 million per year.
So, just for fun- suppose the players agreed to an individual salary cap, even if it’s say $25 million a year
In exchange, they get a minimum salary of $1 million a year
How many players wouldn’t like it and how many would?
thornt25
The MLBPA traditionally doesn’t have a lot of representatives interested in negotiating on behalf for minimum salary guys. They’re better about it this time around, though. I’d personally like this kind of system, assuming it’s offset by revenue sharing so small teams could compete. My guess on what it would look like would probably be a reduction in cap, a salary floor, and increased revenue sharing. That’s a lot of changes all at once and probably wouldn’t happen.
Questionable_Source
Thorn, it’s not really on behalf of the minimum salary guys. The union is trying to make them a less attractive alternative. Teams are opting for getting 60-70% of the production of an established veteran for 10% of the cost. If that cost rises, the union is hoping the teams opt to sign the veteran.
Sadface
I think you’re probably right. The union has generally been supportive of veterans rather than first and second year players. So they would rather a mediocre 30 + year old get paid then some 21 year old with more talent.
Pads Fans
MLB players in 2021 earned an average income of $4.17 million in 2021
The median income for a MLB player was $1.15 million down 18% from 2019 and 30% from 2015.
The average salary of an MLB player in 2021 decreased by 4.8% since 2019 and 6.4% since 2017, the first year of the last CBA.
Those figures are from ESPN
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31270164/average-mlb-salar…
Yankee Clipper
Pads Fan: The only issue I take with those numbers (on both sides of the argument) are that it’s such a short window of reference, relatively speaking. You’re comparing talent-to-talent and it’s not all the same. Additionally, markets do fluctuate. So, over 4-5 years, I submit its nearly impossible to determine an adequate statistical average / year sufficient enough to say, “salaries have gone down” or similar.
Just my opinion but it’s something that may be more appropriately determined by taking the collective average of the 5 years and comparing the total average to any singular year. That way you’re comparing the average within the grouped years of FA signings to any specific year of FA signings to see if there’s a specific trend. Nonetheless, it still doesn’t account for “stacked” classes that will generate a higher average.
Pads Fans
Salaries have gone down. Look at the totals, the average, and the median. If you want to go back further than 2017, adjust for inflation and the decreases in salaries looks even worse for MLB when revenue has skyrocketed in the past 20 years.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, I agree with you without a doubt on their upside. The profits have invariably risen exponentially for all teams. And, I think that’s ownerships’ biggest challenge here with any cost-savings measure – they are compounding profits and seeking agreement for language that will increase that gap even more.
I’ve written several times this is a lose-lose for the owners. It’s just a really bad look overall, especially if games get canceled and prices go up…again.
Questionable_Source
Pads, analytics is the reason salaries have gone down. The league has gotten younger and teams started to pay guys for what they’ll do in 5 years as opposed to paying them for what they did 5 years ago (except for the Mets and Phillies).
The union doesn’t know what they want. They’re asking for minor leaguers to be called up sooner, while they’re pushing to have teams sign more free agents.
You guys are talking about overall salaries and revenues and profits. Is the on-field product/talent level better or worse now than it was 5-10 years ago? The overall league has gotten better at evaluating and developing players and the union is trying to drag the league backwards. MLB is trying to gain ground on the NFL by putting a more talented, more exciting product on the field while the union is trying to ensure there will be Pujos/Chris Davis albatross contracts for all their members.
DarkSide830
these medians also come from years when the active roster was a different size. going from 25-26 is likely just as simple as adding another ~$600,000 player to the mix for each team.
Yankee Clipper
Good point DarkSide.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The ENTIRE point of the lockout is to create brinksmanship. The owners believe that if they drag their feet and toss a few crumbs that the players will cave at the 11th hour regardless.
The players only chance to get what they want is to show a willingness to inflict real damage on the game.
Good luck.
Catuli Carl
The ENTIRE point of the lockout is to prevent a strike in August, September, November.
God forbid the players don’t get what they want.
acell10
they should be so thankful and let the owners who refuse to disclose their revenue just bend them over too according to you right? More like God forbid the owners actually reveal their actual revenue and be forced to compensate the players…
Catuli Carl
That’s true we have a god-given right to look at the books of every business and the players are making slave wages right now. Touche.
acell10
So asking for transparency in negotiations is a bad thing? Every other sport is transparent about their revenue. but I guess we should just take these owners at their word right? because they’ve been completely honest about everything in past dealings with players…
8791Slegna
Players to Owners: “You sons of bitches have been looking for a fight, now you can have it!”
Owners have been pushing for a fight the past 10 years. Of course, they want the status quo. They’ve exploited it to their advantage. They used the qualifying offer to justify collusion against specific free agents. They use the luxury tax like a salary cap. Some teams tank. They manipulate service time to keep a player an extra year. That’s acting in bad faith towards your employees and your fans.
Rooting for the players to get what they can.
cpdpoet
For some reason I read your first line in a Clint Eastwood voice…
Yankee Clipper
The breakdown is beneficial for even ardent fans of the nuances of this game, imho. It certainly nailed the three archetypal arguments that we’ve read throughout all these message boards.
Great job, MLBTR, thanks for the continued content & updates.
greatgame 2
The greedy owners should spend all the revenue sharing money on improving their teams and pay the minor leaguers a higher salary. The greedy players should accept the high $630k starting pay and be thankful for these absurd, often long-term, guaranteed contracts.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Tim, First, thank you for a very well written,informative piece. Have you or has anybody talked with the team’s player reps to gauge just how dug in the players are? I hear rumors (?) of a war chest fund the players have in case games are cancelled, but how large can that be? Even with last year’s decrease in player salaries, I believe over $4 billion dollars were paid out in salaries. There can’t be any way the players have that kind of reserve.
Do you or does the staff collectively have a feel for how dug in the platers are?
Pads Fans
The players have contributed 100% of their share of licensing (video games, etc…) and merchandise to a fund for the possibility of lost income since 2018. That is about $160 million per year. The union has also put part of their union dues into that fund.
It would not pay for a full season, but would probably take them into late May or early June without them sweating the loss of income. From what the player reps like Scherzer and Miller have said, its intended to give all the players a percentage of their normal income for the entire season.
There is also insurance from firms like Lloyds of London that could have been purchased to help in case there is a continued lockout or a strike. I have not heard anything about that from either side.
gwell55
If the players think that they are going to get all these increases in salary and CBT plus lower the revenue sharing (which is to keep smaller teams from going under with their net profit) then the owners are going to start getting rid of more and more Free agents to pay for that as the annual net income the owners show or state is not enough to withstand that increase. Forbes has a good reputation and has said over all baseball profit margin for annually is between 2 and 12% for individual teams. liberty braves date does show that as their highest profit margin was last year with the world series win at 11.8%.
the only other way the owners recoup the annual profit will be to cut top 1% of the players salary and that is unlikely as they are the players with the most fan support. So say good bye to more lesser free agents to keep the profit margin the same.
Just my opinion so just think it over and don’t bash with rude comments.
averagejoe15
But the players are conceding to expanded playoffs which should replace most, if not all, of the increases they are asking for.
Forbes is also not trustworthy as a source for private company revenue or individual’s wealth let alone profit margin of an MLB team. They have a good reputation for sometimes being directionally accurate but they are at best guesstimating.
Pete'sView
gwell55 — I think you also have to take into consideration that the value of MLB franchises grow exponentially every year. So when an owner gets out, he makes a bundle.
gwell55
Pete, yes in the long run that is true but all businesses are still run on annual net income and that is what the owners will be looking at. So there side in this will not change on how much they MIGHT make down the road. However they will look as to what percentage they will make as a result of what a championship run will profit them. That is why profit margin is so important to the financing of the team as well as all businesses. When an owner gets out it is a one time venture in the near or late future for sure. If you can stand the loss to get there.
vtbaseball
Gwell, if that were the case why would Cohen leave Wall St to buy the Mets?
Cosmo2
Cohen did NOT buy the Mets for the financial investment. Plenty of easier ways to make larger profits with that money. He wants the prestige and fun of owning a team. There’s a reason billionaires aren’t exactly falling over themselves to buy sport franchises.
PitcherMeRolling
Billionaires are falling all over themselves to buy franchises. Most teams aren’t for sale because they’re so profitable. Even the Mets and all their issues attracted several groups of investors without their cable station attached to the sale.
Cosmo2
Teams aren’t for sale because there are so few buyers that to put the team on the market is to devalue it- the opposite of a bidding war. Where are these billionaires clamoring for an opportunity to be called greedy just for trying to make a return on an enormous investment?
PitcherMeRolling
Cosmo, do you have any examples of a MLB franchise (or NBA or NFL) that was for sale in the last 5-10 years and didn’t immediately garner attention from several groups of bidders?
Or are you just saying stuff to ‘win’?
topchuckie
If every owner were like Cohen, the second coming of Steinbrenner, or Ilitch, etc. there wouldn’t be a labor dispute. They were owners in it for the game and willing to spend to win, for better or worse. It’s admirable, but it’s not realistic to expect all owners to be like them.
PitcherMeRolling
100%. The issue isn’t that players got greedy, they just asked for a piece of the pie the owners created and then expanded when the put money ahead of the game.
HalosHeavenJJ
Nice summary of the past. As far as the present, the players being without a CBA and able to call a strike at any moment would set MLB up for massive failure and take away any and all leverage the owners have.
I have not renewed my ticket plan nor would I if the players had the ability to strike. And I can bet that would be the same for most regular folks like me and the big time ticket plans/suite holders as well.
I can’t imagine the networks loving the idea that baseball could be gone the following day.
So, while I’m generally on the players side here, I can 100% see the reasoning behind the lockout. Everyone involved needs certainty we’re going to get what we’re paying for.
Pads Fans
The players can’t call for a strike unless there is a season. To have a season their has to be a CBA. For the owners to impose a CBA a federal mediator has to declare an impasse in the negotiations. The players declined to agree to a mediator.
The owners at this point have no leverage. Recent polls show that 80% of fans blame the labor stoppage on them. Their recent actions like waiting 43 days after locking out the payers to make a proposal and refusing to give a response to the MLBPA proposal at all and most recently testifying in court that minor league players should not be paid for spring training has cemented that opinion of them.
The owners start losing money before the players do. They don’t get any TV revenue, which is more than half of revenue for every team, unless MLBPA agrees to a new CBA and the players return. They don’t get paid by TV networks for televising replacement players.
Only a handful of teams hold a controlling interest in their regional sports network and even then its doubtful that they would have the advertising necessary to even pay the bills let alone make a profit from games featuring replacement players.
Season ticket holders had to renew in October or November to retain their seats and seniority. That ship sailed months ago.
Rick Pernell
Tim, Thank you for the history and groundwork that has led us to today.
Now how do we get someone to negotiate the middle ground?
I don’t see either side compromising any time soon and the bargaining that is taking place seems more of a PR stunt than anything else.
sf fan
I’m quitting baseball.
Stealing Signs
In 1994 acting commissioner Bud Selig convinced the other owners that an all Canadian World Series wouldn’t bring in as much revenue thus convincing them to use the salary cap narrative as an excuse to cause a strike.
Nothing will ever change my mind. Let’s Go Blue Jays!
48-team MLB
There would have been three postseason rounds. There was no guarantee of a Blue Jays/Expos World Series.
smuzqwpdmx
More to the point, the ’94 Blue Jays were an over the hill team 5 games below .500 and clearly well on their way to the bottom they hit in ’95. As a Blue Jays fan, I felt they had about a 0% chance of making it into the playoffs that year let alone the World Series.
48-team MLB
@smuzqwpdmx
What are your thoughts on putting another team in Canada?
A) Put a team back in Montreal
B) Put a team in Vancouver
C) Leave Toronto as the only Canadian team
PitcherMeRolling
That’s not what happened
48-team MLB
The only upside to all of this is that the Mets have more time to work out their relocation plans. Queens has been cursed for decades.
whogg72
I think one of the ways that this could be solved is to have owners publish “baseball related” revenue, have it audited, then work from there. Very little idea what the share of player related income is in a normal year, or even revenue per team. Then work from that to establish revenue sharing (if we want small market teams), ensure revenue sharing is applied to contracts. Then establish a baseline percentage of revenue vs. player salaries (including pre-arb, free agency, etc.). Right now it seems to be at about 30%. Give the players 35-40% of revenue for salary, run from there. For free agency and comp picks, couldn’t give a hoot. And expand playoffs. Who doesn’t like a good show in October?
Now…who will be the first to cry “SOCIALISM”?? ;).
averagejoe15
They’d have to agree on the definition of baseball related revenue first which would be a negotiation in and of itself.
whogg72
Meh, I’d be all about letting the accountants define that. Without input from either party in the litigeous situation.
Robertowannabe
The only problem is, neither side would agree on the what the accountants define it as and it would end up being input from both sides in a litigious situation. I a speaking from a accounting point of view in the matter.
whogg72
That what binding arbitration is for – or in this instance binding imposition of measurement standards. And…as noted in this thread, MLB is the only pro-sport not to do it.
foppert
theringer.com/platform/amp/mlb/2018/2/21/17035624/…
Enjoy the read !
If the MLB players salary % to revenue wasn’t in line with the NBA and NFL it would be the MLBPA’s headline act in the PR war.
gdjohnson
You linked to an article that is 4 years old. The NFL and NBA open their books to the union. Why won’t MLB do the same?
foppert
Most relevant I could find when researching that number the other day. Also mentions the key players that are involved today. There is also a Forbes.com article from 2018. Let google be your friend. If you don’t think it’s relevant, that’s fine. Apologies if it contradicts your opinion.
Because they don’t have to. Privacy, pride, business ethics. Who knows.
I imagine the NBA have to because their cap is linked to revenue.
The point remains, if % to revenue was low, the MLBPA would be screaming that point out too anyone who would listen.
PitcherMeRolling
@fop Most people try to find recent sources. Also, the players aren’t making that argument because they don’t know the total revenue, because owners won’t open their books. You can’t argue that your percent of total revenue is low when you don’t the total revenue.
foppert
I’m like most people. I did try. Invested a couple of hours into it.
According to that article, MLBPA have access. Read it.
PitcherMeRolling
‘Have’ is present tense. An article that’s 4 years old doesn’t say anything about what’s happening now. Players may be able to estimate it, but that’s not the real numbers and it would make no sense to use projections because the owners would only agree if those projections were less lucrative than reality.
I get it, you want to be right. But, have you tried BEING right?
acell10
that’s more of a knock on ownership. The players are making estimates as best they can while the owners are being very shady about hiding their books
Pads Fans
Its not close. The NFL CBA locks in the players share of revenue at 48.8%. The NBA at 49-51%. Both have 100% revenue sharing and open books.
Since that article came out in 2018 player salaries in MLB have dropped substantially. The median salary is down more than 20%.
In 2021 MLB had revenue of over $12 billion due to the increases in both local and national TV deals plus skyrocketing numbers for streaming and subscription services. Players made just over $4 billion. That is not close to 48.8%.
The disparity in how revenue is shared between the league and players is absolutely the MLBPA’s headline. Its sad that you missed that fact.
Patrick OKennedy
All three big National TV deals ended after 2021 and new seven year contracts commence in 2022.
Network/ 2014- 2021/ 2022 – 2028/ Total Contract/ Difference
TBS / $ 325 M /$ 535 M /$3.75 Billion / 210 M
Fox / $ 525 M /$ 729 M /$5.1 Billion / 204 M
ESPN / $ 700 M /$ 550 M* /$3.85 Billion / – 150 M
Total / $ 1.55 B /$1.814 B /$12.7 Billion /264 M
ESPN’s deal is 100M less without expanded playoffs
Pads Fans
Approximately 33.6% of total revenue was spent on 40 man roster player payroll and another 3-5% on benefits in 2021.
In the other major sports the percentage of revenue that must go to the players in salary and benefits ranges from 48.8% (NFL) to 50% (NHL) to 49-51% (NBA).
foppert
Where does that come from ?
Your numbers are what sent me searching. I assumed the difference was the benefits.
Pads Fans
ESPN. 2021. I posted the link elsewhere on this thread.
rememberthecoop
I’m clearly in the minority on this, but I tend to side with the owners, although I do feel there is plenty of blame to go around. I just feel it’s the owners who carry the most risk because they have to pay players even if they get hurt and have awful seasons. If they do not get injured and have good years the players make more money.Hell, they make more even when those things are true in many cases. Look, bottom line is, nobody watches baseball to see the owners. I get that. But it’s a lot easier to find replacement players than to find replacement billionaires who want to invest in the league. Mainly because the owners make most of their money when they sell.
averagejoe15
The injury and performance risk is built into the contract value though and owners also take out insurance on the larger contracts, which while expensive, more than pays for itself in event of injury.
Plus owners can afford to pay a player’s contract because the players make the team better which makes the owners more money.
So this argument doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
I’d argue players in their first 4ish years (barring a major extension) take on way more risk than owners. A capable relief prospect could come up, pitch lights out for a year and a half at league minimum, blow out his elbow, and lose any chance at a guaranteed contract for millions.
Lucky for owners there are plenty of guys to replace him with,
It’s also not like we’ve seen teams go up for sale and not get sold, billionaires aren’t irreplaceable either, if anything, there’s more interest in teams from other areas like PE, corporations, and other entities than ever before.
thornt25
There is a large variance of outcomes for players. Many put in a decade plus of work with little to no payoff. Others provide tremendous value for modest payoff. I don’t pity this group, but getting them a little more money seems fair. A lucky few strike it huge in Free Agency while not benefiting their teams (Hosmer, Pujols, Heyward).
The MLBPA in the past has been overly focused on getting mega deals for the latter group, but this time around they’re focusing more on the first two groups. The players clearly aren’t going to get everything they want in this deal, so they’ll probably have to settle for a small raise in the cap in order to get money to young guys.
User 2079935927
Thorn-If your implying the Angels did not benefit from signing Pujols. You’re clearly mistaken. The Angels got a multi billion TV contract out of it.
thornt25
How much extra $ did the Angels get on their TV contract by signing Pujols? What would it have been if they hadn’t signed him?
Pangolin
It is literally the easiest thing in the world to find new ownership groups. That’s why they have multiple bidders every time someone decides to sell a team.
I don’t remember the last time an MLB team sat on the market like a foreclosed house. What a dumb take.
bjupton100
The Nationals. They dismantled the team, traded Guerro off.
smuzqwpdmx
If the owners ever tried to push for all contracts to be non-guaranteed, I’d be on their side. The competition would be better if teams couldn’t get hamstrung for a decade by a bad contract or two. But that’s never what they fight about, and I favor the players on the actual issues at hand.
Pads Fans
The owners have. Several times over the year. Each time the union said fine, open your books and give us 50% of total revenue like the other major sports.
User 2079935927
None puts a gun to the owners head and forces them to agree to contract demands.
averagejoe15
Teams have gotten smarter and are less likely to offer contracts that will hamstring them. There’s no reason to support non guaranteed contracts when bad contracts are usually the result of bad process (aka overpays) by the team and not sudden player ineffectiveness.
As a general comment, it’s time to stop using the Pujols example. We simply won’t see contracts like that for players of that age anymore. Hosmer is a more recent overpay and that one is still baffling but was also widely planned at the time.
And teams recoup a lot of the money for large contracts in the event of injury through insurance so no reason to sweat this either unless you’re bothered by owners having to pay to insure contracts which is certainly factored into an offer.
PitcherMeRolling
We don’t know if owners make most of the money when they sell because they don’t open their books.
Many teams receive more in cable rights + revenue sharing than their team payroll. So, even if everything goes wrong on the field. It’s still very difficult for many owners to lose money if games are played with fans.
Pads Fans
It is reported publicly what teams sell for. We know that owners make a huge return when teams are sold.
John Moores and a group of limited partners bought the Padres for $80 million in 1994 and sold the team for $800 million in 2012.
Loria bought the Marlins for $158 million in 2002 and sold them for $1.2 billion in 2018.
The Wilpons were part of a group that bought the Mets for $21 million in 1980. They sold the team to Cohen for $2.4 billion and retained the TV station.
We know from the 2 teams that are owned by public traded companies, The Braves and the Blue Jays, that MLB teams can have a major league 26 man roster payroll of half their revenue and earn a positive net profit.
We also know from the publicly released number of tickets sold and average ticket price that MLB made between $2.6-2.8 billion in gate revenue (which includes concessions and parking) in 2019 out of total revenue of $10.7 billion. That means ticket sales and other other gate revenue was 26% of total revenue.
The remaining $7.9-$8.1 billion in revenue for MLB was national and local TV deals, sponsorships, MLBAM, and MLB Network.
In 2019 the Pirates had $285 million in total revenue including about $70 million in revenue sharing coming from the high revenue clubs. According to what we learned from the Braves and Blue Jays open books, the Pirates could have spent $140+ million on their MLB payroll and had a positive net profit. They spent $78,286,587 on their 40 man roster that year. The difference was pure profit in Bob Nutting’s pocket.
With the new TV deals, all teams increased their revenue and the Pirates were no exception. Even with the 30% decrease in ticket sales in Pittsburgh, they still are projected to have earned a minimum of $300 million. What was their payroll? $50,337,389
The Pirates are far from the only team that saw the owners take a huge profit instead of spending it on players. The 3 smallest revenue teams, the Marlins, A’s, and Royals; all had revenue surpassing $250 million in 2021. The 40 man roster payrolls for those teams were $ 60,877,424, $ 90,402,244, and $94,475,853 respectively.
sfjackcoke
Lords of the Realm is a great read, so wish John Helyar would continue the story he started.
Fangraphs has a 3-part “History of the CBA” up through the CBA concluded in 2016 which is informative as well.
An observation, the MLBPA seems to be playing catch up to the industry’s evolution the last decade in the use of analytics by front office’s for capital allocation decisions. MLBPA has had the 50+ yrs mantra of “rising tides lifts all boats” which focused on the free agent market. Analytics is putting strain on that mantra as a segment of boats are clearly getting left behind which are players at the front of their careers, how exactly does the MLBPA pivot?
sotoc803
1 thing that seems to be missed in the history breakdown…..
in 1994….even into the summer….the prospects of an actual strike were not a certainty.
it only became a thing after the owners began refusing to fund the player pension/benefits pool.
so (again) another owner’s initiated reason for a strike.
hoof hearted
From Tony Clark all I hear is; ” give me, give me ,give me ,give me, give me”
And bad on the owners for not giving it to us
vtbaseball
Then you’re not listening, Biff…
Pads Fans
You haven’t heard anything from Tony Clark. He is not the MLBPA negotiator. That would be Bruce Meyer. He has not spoken publicly in 2022.
jfive
Good article
thornt25
Great writeup. Agreed that the players and owners really aren’t disagreeing about much other than % increases of minimum salary and soft cap limits, which doesn’t point to a strike. The owners seem to want the last CBA + expanded playoffs, which advantages them. The players came off of their more extreme asks, like reducing service time requirements and slashing revenue sharing. Expanded playoffs for the creation of a bonus pool, limits on options, and some tweaks to drafts are mostly neutral tradeoffs.
I’m glad to see the players have started looking out more for their younger members with the creation of the bonus pool, limiting options, and increased minimums. The MLBPA in the past was mostly focused on big contracts for Free Agents.
LordD99
The owners want a lot of additional revenue with expanded playoffs and cost savings with an international draft, and are offering a minimum salary behind inflation and almost no increases in the salary cap, I mean luxury tax. The players should continue to pass.
thornt25
Yeah the owners want playoff expansion, but that doesn’t seem like it’s going to hurt players’ bargaining power and will only require a few extra games in a 2400+ game season. The cost is minimal to players. The players are right to leverage this for something, and they are getting some concessions. The bonus pool that didn’t exist in the last CBA, changes to the draft, changes to free agent compensation, incentive to bring up young stars, limits on options. You can say this isn’t enough, but looks better to me than the previous CBA. The players are going to strike leading up to the playoffs over buyers’ remorse from prior CBAs? How will that message go over even within the MLBPA?
Patrick OKennedy
Minimum salary that increases at less than the rate of inflation the first year then don’t increase at all for another five years?
CBT thresholds that increase one percent per year over five years
CBT taxes that more than double from 20 top 50 percent, 32 to 75 percent, and 62 to 100 percent?
Loss of first and second round draft picks for first time offenders of the CBT?? They want a salary cap
Nothing done about tanking
Nothing done about service time manipulation
And please don’t say that tweaking the draft stops either of those things
Yep. I’d strike over that
Halo11Fan
The owners have taken away the bite of going.over the luxury threshold. Big market teams will blow by it without a moments thought. It’s shouldn’t be an issue.
Now for paying young players…DO IT.
Since that is really what it boils down to, the owners need to step up. If they do, then it’s all on the players. Until then, it’s all on the owners.
Yankee Clipper
Halo11: I thought they actually increased the percentage upon overage though, which is just a shell game with ownership money, resulting in the same cap-like excuse. I could be very wrong though.
Patrick OKennedy
HuH? The owners are proposing increasing the lowest tier CBT tax from 20% to 50%
Second tier from 32% up to 75%, PLUS loss of a 2nd round pick
third tier from 62.5% up to 100% PLUS loss of a first round pick
How does that take any bite out of the CBT? It doesn’t.
Yankee Clipper
Patrick: Thanks, okay, I thought I was going crazy or missed something in between (both of which are entirely possible).
Seems to me the owners tried to simply extend the average so the penalties don’t compound as quickly, but at a higher amount. Kind of like paying less money for something but at a much higher interest rate, or lower interest but higher total – the money’s still the same (or more) incentive/excuse for the owners to cite a cap-like prohibition on spending.
Patrick OKennedy
The owners proposal gets rid of steeper penalties for second and third time offenders, mainly by pushing all of those penalties into the first year (and then some). So the whole “reset the tax bracket” thing is gone, but the first time cap gets harder.
Yankee Clipper
Right on, makes sense. Still results in the same cap premise for the owners. It’s certainly nothing they’re giving up or changing for the players, the game, or the fans. It’s pure, unadulterated selfishness for profit.
Pads Fans
@Halo What are you talking about? The owners have proposed increasing the penalties to 50%, 75%, and 100% for going over the CBT threshold in successive years.
They also proposed more draconian measures than the current rules if a team goes over the CBT threshold by more than $20 million (50% plus the loss of a 2nd round pick) or $40 million (100% plus the loss of a 1st round pick) in a single season.
In the previous CBA there was no loss of a draft pick, it simply moved down 10 places if a team went more than $40 million over the threshold.
Originally the penalty for going over the CBT threshold was 17.5% That seems like a fair penalty to me. They need to do away with the increasing penalties for exceeding it in successive years entirely, because that is what leads teams to act like the CBT is a hard cap.
Every 2nd or 3rd year the high revenue teams have ducked under the CBT threshold to avoid the big penalties that come with being a repeat offender. It has become a defacto hard cap. That is with the penalties at 20%, 30% and 50% for repeatedly surpassing the CBT threshold. .
The owners proposed doing away with the draft pick loss for signing a players that got a QO, not for going over the CBT.
Yankee Clipper
Pads: Hey man, just wanted to say you’ve done a couple of good posts I read (and didn’t respond to) with a lot of data I found were cogent. As I’m sure you’ve noticed I’m staying away from “sides” but I really enjoy these posts that lay out these details in a straightforward manner. Anyway, good piece, man.
I do wish the CBT were even lower though, lower than the 17%. I feel it should be more at 10% and a flat tax on the overage.
mstrchef13
Although I side with the players in this and most every work environment issue concerning MLB, they would do well to keep in mind that their brethren in the NBA work under a system of a hard cap and maximum contracts, while their brethren in the NFL work under a hard cap and non-guaranteed contracts.
Pads Fans
Their brethren in the NBA get between 49% and 51% of total revenue and the books are totally open. In the NBA all revenue is shared 100% between the teams.
In the NFL the players get a guaranteed 48.8% of total revenue and the books are totally open. Teams also share revenue 100% equally in the NFL.
If the MLB owners would agree to 100% revenue sharing and open books, then I am sure that the MLBPA would agree to increasing the share of total revenue going to the player from the current level of approximately 35% to closer to what the players get in all the other major sports and allowing salary caps and payroll minimums like there are in the other major sports. .
Paulie Walnuts
Enough of that.
I’m more interested in what Matt Harvey’s ERA was with runners in snorting position…
Yankee Clipper
Hey! We don’t need “lines” like that on here.
whyhayzee
1972 – Nixon wins second term, whyhayzee goes to Mets’ first game of delayed season, Red Sox lose out by a half game to the Tigers. We know what happened to Nixon.
1981 – Nixon and his wife move to Saddle River, New Jersey, one of the towns that whyhayzee runs through training for his first New York City Marathon. The Red Sox finish a half game behind the Yankees in the combined season records. The Mets are terrible.
1994 – Nixon dies at the age of 81, his body is kept in a NJ funeral home where whyhayzee had been their paperboy for three years as a teenager. The Red Sox are terrible even though Otis Nixon is their centerfielder. Trot Nixon plays his first professional season with the Red Sox organization. The Mets are decidedly mediocre but feature a scouting director who lived in the same dorm as whyhayzee when they were in college together. That scouting director will go on to help build the Giants who win 3 championships and he winds up in the Scouting Hall of Fame.
2022 – Meat Loaf dies. Makes me wonder if baseball will die as well.
OK, here we go, we got a real pressure cooker going here,
Two down, nobody on, no score, bottom of the ninth,
There’s the windup, and there it is, a line shot up the middle,
Look at him go. This boy can really fly! He’s rounding first and really
Turning it on now, he’s not letting up at all, he’s gonna try for
Second; the ball is bobbled out in center, and here comes the
Throw, and what a throw! He’s gonna slide in head first, here he
Comes, he’s out! No, wait, safe-safe at second base, this kid
Really makes things happen out there. Batter steps up to the
Plate, here’s the pitch-he’s going, and what a jump he’s got,
He’s trying for third, here’s the throw, it’s in the dirt-safe at
Third! Holy cow, stolen base! He’s taking a pretty big lead out
There, almost daring him to try and pick him off. The pitcher
Glances over, winds up, and it’s bunted, bunted down the third
Base line, the suicide squeeze is on! Here he comes, squeeze
Play, it’s gonna be close, holy cow, I think he’s gonna make it!
rememberthecoop
Stop right there! Before we go any further do you love me, will you love me forever do you need me, and never leave me will you make me so happy for the rest of my life will you take me away will you make me your wife I gotta know right now. before we go any further do you love me, will you love me forever.
rememberthecoop
Pangolin – You know what, instead of having a disagreement, you have to go and make statements that call names. This shows what a little person you are, hiding behind your computer in your mommy’s basement. I didn’t say there were NO owners available to buy a team, I said there were more players and that is a fact. Dumb take? ok. But I’d rather have a dumb take than be a jerk to people.
Al Hirschen
Kaiser Manfred is the one holding up a deal with players
Old York
Unless the owners bring in replacement players, I don’t expect a season. Neither side is trying.
LordD99
Don’t believe they can bring in replacement players as the owners are the ones who have instituted a lockout. They’d need a player strike for that.
Old York
Oh, good to know. Thank you.
cguy
Most of this is irrevelant.. There is a lockout & MLBPA members are not reporting to camp. But minor leaguers & NRI players will in 2 weeks. They will most likely be in baseball shape before a new CBA is agreed to & probably be playing games. Once this occurs, the MLBPA has got to see a headwind that will cause some of their members not to have jobs when the season begins. It is inevitable.The longer the work stoppage- the more replacement players will be better options for MLB teams than current veterans on 40man rosters.
Pads Fans
Because the owners instituted the lockout, they cannot bring in replacement players. The only way that can happen is if the players strike.
BirdieMan
If they miss one regular season game arguing over a couple of percentage points, then they might as well miss them all.
Patrick OKennedy
Having come this far with the lockout, I would not expect owners to just drop it without at least an assurance that the players would not strike later in the season. If just those two points were agreed- no lockout and no strike, there would be baseball under the previous CBA, without a CBT.
But- no DH, no minimum salary increase, no expanded playoffs, no pre arb bonus pool, no advertising patches on uniforms, no draft lottery, etc.
The two sides could start bartering and trading off on these points. If the players gave up a CBT with a significant bump in the thresholds and the same tax rate, they could probably get several of the smaller pieces of the puzzle, and suddenly things fall into place.
There are gaps to close, but the big ones are the philosophical differences
– The owners proposals on CBT thresholds and tax rates
– Players demands to move arbitration to 2.0 years
– Players demand to reduce revenue sharing by 30 million
– owners converting minimum salary to fixed, so it’s also a maximum
All those things are complete non starters with the other side. So just toss them out and then it’s a matter of closing some numbers gaps. Big gaps, but they’re still just numbers.
And there would be baseball
thornt25
Totally agree. A massive overhaul of the system just didn’t ever seem to be in the cards. The players can choose to negotiate better contracts for younger players (which they should), but it just means that the soft cap won’t budge much. Most of what they’re arguing about now are cap thresholds, how much the new bonus pool should be and minimum salary. It would be hard to imagine them scrapping the deal at this point. Do players really want to play a half season under the old CBA then strike? “We have buyers’ remorse from the old CBA” isn’t the best rallying cry in the middle of a playoff race.
BlueSkies_LA
An agreement to keep talking along with an assurance not to strike would have to be accompanied by an agreement to enter into binding arbitration if the issues are unresolved at some time certain. Otherwise the players are simply trusting the owners, and we can easily see why that would be foolish.
Pads Fans
There is absolutely no way the players would agree not to strike. It is their leverage.
BlueSkies_LA
Note my condition. The threat of mandatory binding arbitration is a big stick. Not that I believe either side would agree to such a thing, but the only way I can imagine the players agreeing not to strike (and MLB won’t end the lockout if they face one) would be to get some other kind of leverage in return. If you can think of something else, let me know. I don’t have any other ideas, and without any other ideas, MLB does not end the lockout.
Pads Fans
I believe arbitration started at 2 years and was moved to 3 years in subsequent CBAs.
Redwolves3
Steve Phillips, The Leadoff Spot said this morning the MLBPA keeps saying they were “underwhelmed” by MLB’s proposal. And, actually it’s the owners who have addressed and made positive changes that the players could reach an agreement right now; and “save face.”
Phillips also said the players are being “unrealistic” with their demands.
LordD99
If your source is Steve Phillips, get a new source.
PitcherMeRolling
If Steve Phillips said it, it must true. Someone who once held a prestigious position such as Mets GM is beyond reproach.
Pads Fans
No the owners haven’t. At every turn the owners have stalled and stonewalled.
You cannot name a single major concession the owners have made, while the players have made several large concessions including free agency, the draft length, and expanded playoffs.
Phillips is paid by the owners. He is on MLB Network radio. Not exactly a unbiased source and he has seen this offseason what happens to people that criticize the owners like Ken Rosenthal. Buh bye job.
DarkSide830
if you read the proposal at all you’d know this is wrong. the latest proposal obviously didnt include everything the players would have wanted, but certainly did include some desirable things. these “concessions” by the players are not concessions simply because the PA moved off something that was never likely to happen to begin with. free agency is not a concession because it was unrealistic. the draft was not a concession because we know the PA doesn’t give a damn about non-members. the postseason length was not a concession because we darn well know they had monetary benefit to agree to it. meanwhile the owners did provide a decent starting point in the last proposal and since the players have dragged their feet. they also suggested outside mediation to get things done sooner and the PA said no.
Halo11Fan
I don’t even know what the proposal is.
1) There should be a luxury tax threshold and revenue sharing.
2) Teams should not lose draft picks for going over the cap or signing players.
3) There needs to be a punishment for tanking.
4) Young players need to get paid.
I would hope everyone would agree with this.
PitcherMeRolling
@dark everything the players allow the owners to do is a concession. If the owners want it, the players get to decide to say yes or no. Everything a union gives up for free is more leverage for the other side.
AhJayShay
Owners have been manipulating service time for way too long. Once a player is drafted, they can hold his rights for up to 12 years before reaching free agency. 5 years of minor leagues before they have to make a decision about the rule 5 protection, 3 years of Big League minimum, then 3 years of arbitration. By the time they reach free agency the majority of them have already played several years of their prime and they’re in their 30’s. Obviously the top percentage of players don’t need to worry about this because they don’t spend 5 years in the minor leagues, but the majority of players have had their careers (service time) manipulated in someway
Pads Fans
Less than 15% of players that make it to the majors ever reach free agency. The average age is 30.6 years old.
LordD99
It’s quite simple. The owners want the games lost in April, not September and October and lost postseason revenue. They’re not wrong for wanting that, but they’re probably still underestimating the players’ resolve. So far their proposals have equaled a pay cut when factoring in inflation.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, and what the players observe is that the owners are increasing their profit exponentially at the same time, which they feel is salt in the proverbial wound.
PitcherMeRolling
Lords of the Realm is very good and, even though it’s already 600 pages, I wish there was more on the 94’ strike.
AnonPlayer5
The CBT has sunsetted. If there was no lockout, this season is played without one. Do you really think the players would threaten a strike without a CBT?
I’ve said this before but if the players needed to threaten a strike, there would be no strike because none of the player asks are economically unfeasible or unreasonable and as a result, the owners would come to terms before a strike happened. The only reason the owners are playing hardball right now is an attempt to squeeze the union, not because the union is making proposals that are bad for the game or unfair financially.
There is no justification for the lockout. This is the first lockout in baseball in over 30 years. It’s not the normal way of a CBA negotiation yet the owners are doing it this time despite fair union offers. Ask yourself why
Patrick OKennedy
I don’t, but you can’t be sure
You would think that a new CBT, one more like the status quo, could be had and that some cookies could be acquired in the swap.
Likewise for expanded playoffs, and uniform patches, and an international draft
Ga
The solution is simple: break up MLB’s monopoly powers, seize the teams for the public good, removing the psychopathic criminal owners, turn the teams into city/region & fan-owned entities, like many European soccer clubs and NFL’s Packers. The money that taxpayers give to the owners for new stadiums (Tampa owners want 350 million in free cash from taxpayers) goes directly to teams. This socialism for the rich is ended. The money from TV, etc goes into the team directly, not to the pockets of owners who use that money to buy UK soccer teams or US presidents. GM and executives hired by team. Players and fans enjoy the game. Play ball!
Yankee Clipper
“ seize the teams for the public good”
I am fairly certain that’s not legal. But, breaking up the monopoly is one simple vote away. I do wonder how that would impact the future of the game if it existed in a non-monopolistic environment.
Ga
But it was legal for Texas Rangers (with Bush II as a minority owner) to seize houses so their taxpayer-funded ballpark could be built/expanded…
Yankee Clipper
Well, yeah that’s eminent domain. That’s like congressman are legally allowed to conduct insider trading when it’s a crime for the rest of the country. He who wears the crown…..
Ga
One example. Sternberg bought Rays for 200 million. He wants 350 million from taxpayers to fund half a new stadium. That means taxpayers cough up 150 million over the purchase price of the WHOLE TEAM for 1/2 a stadium they don’t even get to own. Think that is fair? That is socialism for the rich. How about “socialism” for the fans? We pay. We get nothing. “Seize” means the city/region & fans buy the team and run it like the Packers or many soccer clubs in the world do. Take money from TV, etc to run it. Owners go away.
Yankee Clipper
I also think that’s comical, especially considering Stu, in particular, lives in NY & owns a team in Florida. He then leeches off the MLB system to pay for his roster, while he grooms, sells, & repeats – reaping incredible profits the entire way to the bank (in NY), while convincing his fans he’s a victim of large market billionaires. And he has the audacity to request taxpayer money for his new stadium?
I am not a fan of Stu’s operational methods as I believe they are the business model for what’s wrong with MLB today. I’m just one voice, however.
TomToms
Hey. I can get long winded about baseball too, but cripes! Some of you have to stop making theses books.i appreciate you’re love of the game,but get someone to talk to.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Exactly! I hate it when people come to baseball comment sections to talk about baseball. People should only come to baseball comment sections to talk about how you shouldn’t talk about baseball in baseball comment sections.
Good job, Tom.
PitcherMeRolling
Then don’t read those posts, Tom. How is this supposed to be an issue for anyone else?
texasguscc
Great breakdown Tim. Thank you for laying it out simply for those of us that don’t have the time to do the deep dive ourselves.
YankeesBleacherCreature
This is one helluva writeup, Tim!
goob
This is a very nicely put together synopsis, thanks much, Tim D.
Of your final sentence, though: “If the lockout is lifted and the players go on strike over these issues, then yes, the players would shoulder the lion’s share of responsibility for missed games and/or canceled playoffs. Until then, missed games fall on ownership.”
Yes, but shouldn’t it also be noted in that scenario, that while the players might shoulder most of the responsibility for missed games, that the owners would then be shouldering the lions share of the financial losses?
Either way, I hope this doesn’t just devolve further and further, into a months long war of attrition…
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Whenever they finally stop playing dumb which in Manfreds case that’s impossible. The agreement needs to be for 5 years. Lockout or strike. It’s bad for the game. If it moves into a strike it’s really bad.
NY_Yankee
What needs to happen is the game needs to grow or it will eventually die. Owners players and agents all have a vested interest in that. The problem is that is not happening. I remember ESPN once asking Scott Boras about suggestions about how to do just that: His response was basically WTF BS instead of answering the question. When I see guys like Seager being paid like they are Hall of Famers ( while they are simply very good), and the MINIMUM salary is more then 10 times my yearly income are still acting like Norma Rae, I know very there is a severe problem.
AhJayShay
If Steph Curry makes a half court 3 pointer it’s all over Twitter and the internet within seconds. If Mike Trout goes 4-4 and robs a homer you have to wait until after the game finishes to see highlights. People want instant entertainment and MLB fails at that
NY_Yankee
That is not the problem. Basketball, hockey and skill positions in the NFL are more offensive minded then in MLB, where the defense ( especially the pitcher) controls the game, so naturally you will get more highlights. The bigger problem is this: Players like Curry, Ja’Marr Chase and Connor McDavid are well paid because people will pay to see them. In MLB fans are not eager to spend hundreds of dollars for Corey Seager or Carlos Correa. In fact, I bet the most popular baseball player today is someone who died in 1948: Babe Ruth. Very much like Hollywood where there are no real stars and John Wayne who died over 40 years ago might be more popular then any actor today.
Pete'sView
Mousecop — I think you have the best name ever on this site. Congrats!
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Can’t post emojis I did the rock on emoji
ohyeadam
I don’t want to learn a bunch of new rules so I hope it mostly stay the same
Ga
So this is comical. Lots of people here are probably “conservative” (like me) and yet cheer for MLB owners who receive free cash from taxpayers — “socialism for the rich”. One example: Sternberg bought Rays for 200 million. He wants 350 million from taxpayers to fund half a new stadium. That means taxpayers cough up 150 million over the purchase price of the WHOLE TEAM for 1/2 a stadium they don’t even get to own. Think that is fair? That is socialism for the rich. How about “socialism” for the fans? We pay. We get nothing. Instead of this socialism for a few rich guys we have cities/regions & fans buy the team and run it like the Packers or many soccer clubs in the world do. Take money from TV, etc to run it. Owners go away.
NY_Yankee
I am a Conservative as well, who opposes Socialism, but You are very naive. Do you know who the representative in the Yankee Stadium district is? Ocasio-Cortez. If you get a Packer or soccer situation in The Bronx, you will give her control over hiring spending and other decisions. Look at Amazon. She said NO and it was NO.
tuner49
Looks like ‘naive’ is contagious. It doesn’t matter who is the representative of the Yankee Stadium district since ‘a Packer situation’ is a group of over 360,000 people who own the team. They live all over Wisconsin and some could even be out of state. The team is run by a committee of about a half dozen people with a president. They also have a board of directors with over 40 people on it. Sounds a lot like a capitalist corporation to me. None of this has anything to do with politics.
NY_Yankee
Everything has to do with politics. This is why you had the athletes kneeling and disrespecting the flag.
whyhayzee
And the fact that the kneelers spend the rest of their lives being better citizens than most is completely lost on your microscopic vision of reality.
There’s a big difference between disrespecting the flag and disrespecting America. But the knee jerkers are also Sunday Christians, which means they are jerks 6 out of 7 days of the week. I’ll take a kneeler every day of the week. Vastly better human beings than all the trailer trash that is trying to take over this country.
tuner49
So…. were you right or wrong about the ‘Packer situation’??
acell10
I’m not very conservative but agree with the point about publicly funded stadiums. Public funding for stadiums is corporate welfare plain and simple
Catuli Carl
Neither of those things are socialism. They’re just people taking advantage of government stupidity and corruption.
DarkSide830
it’s not stupidity. these politicians know what they are doing.
topchuckie
Tim, this is pretty much the best article I’ve read since the work stoppage began. Excellent work.
Catuli Carl
Moral of the story: the owners are greedy, oppressive, capitalist pigs and the MLBPA is the heroic champion of the poor, oppressed players.
The players’ demands are never ever unreasonable and nothing is ever their fault.
Owners wanting to make money off the teams they own is very bad and greedy, but players wanting to make more money is not.
Players are and always will be underpaid as long as any MLB owner is still making a cent off his team.
Rise proletariat! You have nothing to lose but your chains! (and baseball)
Catuli Carl
The reason the owners triggered a lockout is to avoid an inevitable strike by the players in August, September, October.
Your basic summary is that it’s the owners fault for not giving the MLBPA everything they wanted immediately or waiting for them to strike late in the season and ruin the season. Asinine.
The_Voice_Of_REASON
Hold the line, owners. The country won’t really care if there’s no “MLB season”, and you know it. Enough is enough from the players. NO MORE!!!
acell10
yea but the owners might actually care about lost revenue…good thing you’re not negotiating for them
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Disagree that missed games are on the owners because they called the lockout. If they hadn’t and tried to keep negotiating, players would have just gone on strike this week instead of showing up to ST. Neither side is being reasonable in their requests, though the owners are being a bit worse, as well as being less willing to budge, imo. We’re not going to have a season, regardless of who’s refusing it, until both sides decide to meet in the middle. I’m just hoping for the regular season to start by June 1 at this point.
DarkSide830
Yeah, the idea that the lockout shifts blame is silly. there is no CBA and we know the union wolnt play without a CBA. It’s very possible you get a strike the very day the CBA expires if the lockout doesnt happen first. does the union even want FA to occur without a set CBA?
baji kimran
This comment is buried so deep no one will ever see it, but there were a few games lost to the 1985 strike. I know this because I’m a fan of the Toronto Blue jays. The Jays went 99-62 that year losing a game against the Orioles to the two day strike which cost them a chance for a 100 win season. Something the Jays have never done..
Snuffydog
This is the letter that I wrote to both organizations:
Dear MLB and MLBPA,
Like millions of fans of Major League Baseball, I have grown tired and disgusted by the current dispute between your two organizations.
While your organizations fight over money that fans infuse into baseball, we are left with little to feel good about and am overall sour taste in our mouths. You have robbed us of our Hotstove off-season and now jeopardize a full MLB season and any anticipation we have to look forward to March and April.
Most fans understand the basic concepts that your organizations are disputing over, but I’m the end when all is said and done, you are simply fighting over OUR MONEY! Without the fans, you would be arguing over over peanuts. I am curious if either of your organizations has ever considered the concept of a United fan base with their own organization and their own representation at your negotiating table. I think we have plenty to say. This would be a very powerful concept and that is exactly what I am proposing. Why shouldn’t fans have a voice? After all, you mutually benefit from our willingness to spend on the game.
So on this 15th day of February, 2022, I am submitting this letter to the masses. I am asking fans everywhere to assist me in spreading the word. I’m also asking fans to assist me in forming a petition for fans to organize. Once we receive several million signatures, your organizations may see fit to include us since it is “OUR MONEY”.
-As an avid baseball fans, we want representation on matters involving Major League Baseball. We want our voices and the voices of millions of fans to have a say in this game that we love. If the powers that be who run baseball don’t wish to listen the voice of the fans, then we will choose to vote with our dollars against those who run baseball. – Joe Culpepper
rememberthecoop
They probably used your letter to blow their noses into…
66TheNumberOfTheBest
No, they probably paid someone minimum wage to open, skim and toss that letter in the trash.
Halo11Fan
Why should unskilled workers get paid more than minimum wage?
PitcherMeRolling
If they skimmed the letter that means they can read. That alone eliminates 60% of the people here.
Halo11Fan
PitcherMeRolling… That’s pretty funny.
Pete'sView
Rememberthecoop — Just like BofA, Amazon or any large US corporation would do. The fan/consumer doesn’t really count anymore. Just hang in there for 20 minutes on the phone tree . . . until they disconnect you.
riffraff
Required reading? Didn’t do it when my actual teachers assigned it..not doing it now..no offense Tim
ShawnM 2
Owners would have been dumb not to have locked the players out. They couldn’t take the chance of the players walking out before the playoffs. I’m for the players getting more money. Not the ones making 25 million or more but the ones in pre arbitration and arbitration. I’m against any change to the CBT tho. I would rather lose the season than have owners give in on that. Small market teams are at enough of a disadvantage as it is. If it gets worse. They will not be worth watching.
JimmyO'sfan
Just my 2 cents. Min pay 1st year $650,000, 2nd $700,000, 3rd $750,000. Each year each team must pay 3 $500,000 bonuses to any of these players, each team determines their own receiptents. It can be based on statistics or maybe on a player the team wants to hold onto long term.
This will cause increases for the low payroll/tanking teams. Need to raise the lux tax limit so that teams that are close won’t be forced over the limit by this.
Next: Hey players no lux tax increase for the super players to get more. The union should accept that 20, 30 or more million per year is enough.
Next: 45 days gets you a year of service.
With this 30 player roster after Sep 1st. 1 of these 4 can be anyone but the other 3 must be minor leaguers with 0 service time that the mbl team wants to get a look at.
Next: Oakland & Tampa are given 1 year to finalize future. 6 months later 2 teams added. Win for owners (payments from new teams) and for players (52 new player positions).
Next: 3 years pre arb, 2 years arb and kaboom! 2 years restricted free agency.1st year player can be retained for 1 year by orig team paying average for 1 year of offered contract plus 2 million. 2nd year is same but orig team must pay 5 million plus contract average.
This is a big give to owners for another year of control and win for younger players getting higher salaries.
Next: Draft. Start using strength of opponents to determine worst teams. Team who drafts first one year can draft no higher than 12th the second year and 6th the 3rd year.
Next: Biggie! Only the team with control of a player before he begins restricted free agency can sign a player for more than 4 years. The great players will of course get opt outs and will probably sign a new mega contract every 2 years. Once a player leaves his orig team that could sign him 4 plus he cannot go back later to do that.
This is necessary because fans need a hero. They are losing interest because every time they really like a player he up and goes to a different team.
Next: Players should leave revenue sharing to owners. It is their money.
Next: Back to service time. Any player with grievance can file for arbitration thru the union to mlb. If he wins he gets the service time and $50,000 from the team. If he loses he is fined $50,000 and the union $100,000. Wow, the offseason will be interesting.
Next: No loss of draft pick for signing FA. Team losing FA who offered qualifing offer will receive pick between 1st and 2nd round of draft.
Enough for now.
martevious
It doesn’t really matter if it is a lockout or a strike, neither side is bargaining in good faith. Their proposals and counter proposals are far apart, and they have made no real attempt to honestly work towards an agreement. Federal mediation is needed.
gbs42
The union’s first mistake was giving up a year of arbitration, going from two to three years. Owners have won most of the battles ever since.
tigerdoc616
I’ll see your third motive and raise you……………..this is not just about gaining leverage, but about punishing the players. MLB has no intent of settling with the players right now. Their proposals hardly move the needle. They want to delay the start of the season to punish the players. The players make their money in the regular season so any lost games is lost pay for them. There was plenty of time to find middle ground and MLB has done nothing but stall.
I will say the MLBPA could entirely change the tenor of this by stating that if MLB is not serious about negotiating an agreement to begin the regular season on time then playoff expansion is off the table. Owners think they have that in the bag right now so they can use the lock out as leverage against the players. They need to gain some leverage back and playoff expansion is THE thing the owners really want.
Halo11Fan
There is no way the owners will let the players strike in July… nor should they.
gwell55
Well apparently the PU doesn’t give a hoot about the fans at this point as they haven’t came up with another counter offer and they aren’t likely to help get this settled unless they get millions more without risking anything! Maybe the fans should demand if they don”t come to the table then ask the owners to invoke a clause for them that revokes their contracts for failure performance or something. I’m betting the discussion might begin that way even though they probably won’t lose their contracts. LOL I bet both sides would come to the table then.
Halo11Fan
The Player’s Union has never given a hoot about the fans. The Teacher’s Union doesn’t give a hoot about the kids. Unions don’t give a hoot about the product only their employees.
I’m not saying unions are intrinsically bad, but that is simply the nature of unions.
NY_Yankee
I remember when the umpires were on strike and they crossed the picket line. That proved what they are about:
acell10
or maybe you should demand the owners actually come to the table with legitimate offer?
Sunday Lasagna
any given year, 500,000 play High School Baseball, 35,000 play college ball, 3,600 play in the minors.
Just 780 fit on to the rosters of the 30 teams.
It’s interesting to read some of the less than flattering commentary on minor league ball. Those players are phenomally talented. Even the ones that will never see the Majors. It’s only the elite of the elite that get to the Majors.
beyond that…once you are an ‘elite of the elite ‘ and in the majors,
it may not last long….
fewer than 10% of the almost 20,000 MLB players in the history of the game made it to 10 years of service to receive a full pension.
Pay the young guys and the players in the minors more, and lower the threshold for the pension plan
Cash Considerations
I don’t know if anyone has said it, but this is the best article I’ve been able to find on the lockout and what’s going on with it.
No bias shows, and both sides are fairly and does so quite succinctly.
Very well done.