9:51PM: The Players Association is likely to turn down the league’s request for a mediator, according to Drellich (via Twitter).
4:10PM: The league will not be making a counter to the MLBPA’s most recent offer, The Athletic’s Evan Drellich reports (via Twitter). The union made their offer on Tuesday and MLB was expected to make a response, though this will now apparently not be the case. Between this lack of a counter-offer, no new meetings scheduled between the two sides, and now the league’s request for a federal mediator, it is unclear when the next set of negotiations may take place.
3:29PM: Major League Baseball has asked the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service for assistance in ending the lockout, ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan reports (Twitter link). As per the league’s request, a federal mediator would step in to help resolve the many outstanding issues between the owners and players in negotiating the next collective bargaining agreement. The MLBPA would also have to sign off on a mediator’s involvement, and it isn’t yet clear whether the union has consented to this third-party consultation.
It isn’t uncommon for the FMCS to become involved in sports-related work stoppages, as federal mediators all played roles in the NFL’s 2011 lockout, the NBA’s 2011 lockout, and the 2012-13 NHL lockout. In addition, Bill Shaikin of The Los Angeles Times noted that former FMCS director William Usery was appointed by President Bill Clinton to try and help baseball’s owners and players come to an agreement that would end the 1994-95 players’ strike.
Results were mixed, as FMCS involvement didn’t do much in the NFL’s case, nor did Usery’s involvement help bring the 1994-95 strike any closer to an end. It is worth underscoring that a federal mediator is there only to help facilitate talks between the two sides, and cannot force either party to accept a deal.
With this in mind, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the lockout is any closer to a resolution. In the absolute best-case scenario that a mediator’s involvement would suddenly jumpstart talks, it would likely be some time before a new CBA is finalized — Jeff Jones of The Belleville News-Democrat observes that the aforementioned NBA and NHL lockouts needed roughly five more weeks of talks to reach a resolution. If Spring Training didn’t begin until mid-March, some regular-season games would need to be canceled.
A quick end to the lockout seems quite remote, however, given the large divides that have already become apparent in earlier talks between MLBPA and the players’ union. If anything, requesting a mediator at this relatively early stage of negotiations is unusual, and it could be a tactic by the league to put some public pressure on the union. (Labor lawyer Eugene Freedman raised this point as part of a multi-Tweet thread about today’s news.) According to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale, a player with direct knowledge of the labor talks referred to the mediation request as “a publicity stunt” from the league.
While the lockout has only been going on for a little over two months, there is certainly a ticking-clock element to negotiations, given that Spring Training camps were scheduled to open within two weeks’ time, and Opening Day is scheduled for March 31. If the “publicity stunt” sentiment is shared by the union members at large and the MLBPA doesn’t agree to FMCS mediation, it would represent yet another setback in talks (or lack thereof) between the two sides.
One of the first good ideas I’ve heard from either of the sides since this began
It would be a good idea if the arbitration was binding, but and since neither side is likely to agree to binding arbitration then this development is lacking in any real substance.
Too much money at stake for either side to agree to binding arbitration. Many of us knew at some point officially or not, neutral parties were needed for this to eventually settle. It’s not like either side had a trial verdict argument to rely on nor is this a public union where arbitration is done to set police, fire and other municipal contracts when direct negotiations fail. With the money involved, neither side wants to give in.
I agree, but my suggestion weeks ago was that both sides should agree to entering into binding arbitration if they failed to come to an agreement by the end of January. This prospect would have focused their minds on getting the deal done rather than take the risk of an arbitrator. Not that I ever thought this was going to happen. Pulling in the NLRB isn’t going to solve anything. In fact it’s more likely to lead to a declared impasse and a strike. So really it’s no better than a dangerous stunt.
Why would there be a strike when there’s already a lockout? That’s like an employee saying he resigns after he’s already been fired.
A strike would matter only if the owners end the lockout without a new CBA, and that ain’t gonna happen.
If the NLRB declares an impasse, MLB can impose a CBA on the players. At that point the lockout ends, and the strike begins.
blueskies – Where are you getting your information from?
Someone else posted the relevant NLRB language, which I confirmed myself is accurate. If an impasse is declared, the employer can impose terms. If that happens in baseball I believe we all know the players will not accept MLB unilaterally imposing terms of employment. Their only option at that point is to strike. A journey of a thousand stupidities begins with the first step.
BlueSkies: If this remediation could lead to MLB dictating the next CBA, I expect the MLBPA to not agree to it.
The calling in of federal mediators wasn’t actually a move towards a resolution but the first step in forcing a strike. Lots are in denial about this and will probably continue be in denial if/when it happens.
What are they supposed to do though? Neither side is budging on this.
Ownership’s refusal to counter the union’s latest proposal and call in mediators instead pretty much answers your question.
The union isn’t exactly making legitimate counter offers either though. They’re barely moving an inch. Both sides are at fault.
Actually, they can only implement their “last best offer”, in which case the NLRB would almost certainly file for an injunction under rule 10(j), which last time resulted in Judge Sotomayor issuing an injunction to prevent replacement players and MLB’s unilateral terms.
Those terms included an end to free agency, end to arbitration, and an end to the anti- collusion provisions of the previous CBA.
They would also surely have to end the lockout and see if the players come back. They can’t lock out players under contract and then bring in replacement players. So the players come back, earn some money and strike on labor day.
You have this totally wrong. The owners announced the lockout as the best way to get talks moving “in the off-season”. The owners have no interest in continuing the lockout if they get close to Opening Day. They will lift the lockout before then, which will force the MLBPA to either reach an agreement, or be the bad guy who declares a players strike. Brilliant move by the owners.
What actually happens in that case is the owners lift the lockout and the old CBA continues, but without any luxury tax. There is a very explicit provision in the old CBA that declares the CBT dead and not to continue in the event of the CBA expiration.
Other terms such as arbitration, free agency, minimum salary, etc would continue as is.
Players then would probably go to spring training, start the season and strike on labor day after most of their salaries have been earned. That burns MLB most of all, when they’re set to make big TV revenue in the post season.
Which is why the player will never agree to Federal Mediation.
When the owners refused to even negotiate you got your answer. They are trying to sway public opinion, not come to an agreement.
Right now the bad PR is on the owners. They locked out the players. They took over 6 weeks after the lockout began to make a counter proposal. Now they are refusing to even make a counter proposal to the union’s latest offer.
The losses of revenue will start to hit the owners on Feb 26th. The players won’t feel any financial pinch until April. Right now its a game of chicken. Who will blink first. I don’t believe that after losing so much profits in 2020 that the owners are in a position to weather a long labor stoppage.
In fact, I think they are trying to recoup some of those losses in profit in 2020 by sticking it to the players with an even worse CBA than the last one. Its not going to happen. The 2022 season may be entirely lost.
Scott, the owners can “announce” anything they want, but the reality is you don’t lock out players if you are trying to get people to the table. Especially if you lock them out then don’t make a counter proposal for over 6 weeks.
The NLRB would have to be involved as a mediator and declare an impasse and MLB unilaterally impose a CBA for the players to bee forced to strike. Until a new CBA is either agreed to or imposed, there is way for the players to strike. They have nothing to strike against.
The MLBPA will not accept the federal mediation, which is their right, and so the lockout will continue.
The old CBA would not automatically resume if the owners lift the lockout. It had a end date on it and its now null and void.
The only way that the old CBA could continue into 2022 is if the MLBPA agrees to it or if a NLRB mediator declares an impasse and the owners impose a CBA.
That is why the MLBPA will not agree to a federal mediator. They are not stupid and right now the bad PR juju is all on the owners.
The precedent set in the injunction in 1994, upheld by the second circuit, is that the existing terms continue until a new deal is reached or the owners can get away with the impasse strategy, which would be all but impossible with a lockout. Even in that case, they must implement their “last best offer” not just whatever terms they want.
The NLRB doesn’t directly provide mediation. The Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, an independent federal agency, provides the mediation. It’s not part of the department of labor.
One thing that would end, though, is the CBTax, because there is a specific sunset provision for that in the CBA.
Eugene Freedman, a labor attorney, has a very good series of about 18 tweets on twitter about the process.
Here’s part of it
There’s also a more cynical possibility. That is that MLB is attempting to reach impasse so that it can unilaterally implement its last, best offer. We’ve seen that game before. But, then it comes down to whether or not it is premature impasse or real impasse – see 1994.
FMCS mediator could give some credence to an argument that they are at impasse. Albeit, I assume the Union’s argument would be based on a surface bargaining argument. Should we see this cynical possibility come true, having Jennifer Abruzzo as the confirmed NLRB GC definitely 11/
makes it more likely that the NLRB would seek a 10(j) injunction preventing unilateral implementation in the event the Regional Director found there to be bad faith including a lack of impasse.
It just seems that tactically, that would be a terrible decision from MLB, but 12/
history tends to repeat itself.
Some of us haven’t forgotten, even these long 27 years after Judge Sotomayor’s ruling in Silverman (NLRB) v. MLB.
Note that the NLRB filed for the injunction in 1994 under 10(j), which is essentially bargaining in bad faith when they declared an impasse.
BlueSkies – Thank you for correcting your previous statement in which you claimed “MLB can impose a CBA on the players”. Neither side can impose a CBA on the other, that’s why I questioned where you heard that.
Yes of course MLB can impose terms (their last offer to the union) after an impasse is declared and negotiations are over. It would be the same situation as 1994 when the season began despite no CBA in place.
MLB knows this, and that’s why I said the owners won’t end the lockout without a CBA. Doing so would be foolish, because the players could collect 75% of their salary by playing April thru mid-August and then go on strike. The owners foolishly allowed that to happen once before, they can’t be so dumb as to allow it to happen again … can they?
Another possibility is that Halem is getting pressure from some owners to make that CBT threshold and penalties more like a hard salary cap, which is a complete non starter with the players, and he needs to break a logjam within the owners’ club.
It’s even possible that the MLBPA has a good idea what’s up on the owners’ side and they’d like to break it up also. Lots of things we don’t know.
Pads Fan – You seem to have the same bad source as BlueSkies.
The owners cannot impose a CBA on anyone.
CBA stands for “Collective Bargaining Agreement”.
One side cannot force the other side to enter into a legally binding agreement. Doing so would be the antithesis of the word “agreement”.
Good thing for some here that MLBTR is one of the few remaining entities that doesn’t censor users for spreading misinformation. LOL
This is a distinction without a difference. In a declared impasse MLB can impose whatever terms were in their last best offer. Even assuming the sides could agree on what the last best offer was, the chance the players accept that situation would be overestimated at zero.
BlueSkies – Wanna bet the players would accept that situation in March or April?
Like I said, they agreed to play in 1994 … until they collected approx 75% of their pay, then went on strike.
Sure it could happen that way, but the players holding off retaliation until it is more to their advantage is not accepting the situation, not by a long shot. If you would be happy to see a repeat of a 1994-95 type scenario then please let me know and we won’t have to discuss this any further.
You can phrase it any way you want, my point still stands.
The players would rather play April thru mid-August without a CBA if they can’t get what they want in a new CBA.
The owners would rather play mid-June thru October with a CBA.
I am neither a player nor an owner, so I have no idea why my happiness would matter in this conversation.
Again, anything binding is too risky for both sides. What should have happened is an agreement to defer for a year given the pandemic but in reality all they had to do was start the negotiations earlier. Sadly, this was planned by at least the owners, possibly both sides. Historically speaking, many situations have no meaningful negotiations until there’s outside influences pressuring the parties. In civil litigation, it used to be called “settling on the court house steps”. Outlandish demands and low ball offers unt there was a chance that the case would be settled by a jury, which can be risky for both sides. Here, the “court house steps” is replaced by lost revenues and paychecks.
You haven’t refuted anything I actually said, so my point still stands too. Just to remind you, my point was that the players would not play the season under rules dictated by MLB (and you aren’t saying anything very different). Whether they time a strike for the beginning of the season or later on when it hurts ownership more is besides the point. I mean, besides the point I actually made.
I’m still trying to figure out whether you’d be happy with a repeat of the 1994-95 scenario. Some would be, you know, so I don’t know what I am dealing with here unless you tell me. And by happiness, I mean the happiness a fan gets out of watching baseball for a full, uninterrupted season. So it’s a very simple, direct question.
All of which is probably mooted if the PA doesn’t agree to federal mediators.
Well I did refute your original comment about the CBA, but as to your question about my happiness … what difference does it make since I’m only a fan?
If you phrase the question better, such as what do I prefer happen?
My answer is simple, I prefer they get a new CBA within the next two weeks. I have a lot of games already lined up, at this point in the year being so close to attending games is my biggest enjoyment, I would not be happy if the games are cancelled. I take it you never watched the American version of Fever Pitch?
Sorry but anybody who wants a repeat of 1994 is not a diehard baseball fan. If they think that’s the only way to get a new CBA done, they are being foolish.
No you didn’t actually. As far as I can honestly tell, you misunderstood it, which isn’t the same thing.
Your happiness as a fan is unimportant? Surely this is not supposed to be a serious point. Me, you, we are the reason the game exists. If we as the customers of baseball are unhappy enough with it, the game ceases to exist. At least we agree that a repeat of 1994-95 would be a disaster, though for me it goes way beyond the games I am already committed to as a season ticket holder, it goes to the damage done to the integrity of the game by yet self-inflicted wound. I wonder how many times they can shoot themselves in the foot and then reload.
Well anyhow I think you can see just by reading these comments that plenty of so-called fans are begging for a repeat of 1994-95, seemingly because all they want to do is stick it to the players. You know, the guys they show up to watch play? Never fails to amaze.
I’m sure I saw the movie back in the day I just don’t have much memory of it. Maybe you can explain the significance.
It’s not arbitration. Mediation is different.
When at an impasse, seek some outside mediation. Makes perfect sense. Someone needs to help both sides seek common ground and look for win-win opportunities.
The owners are using this as a PR stunt! MLBPA should not take the bare!when the owners miss a TV contract payment they will get on there knees in front of the players and take it!!
Bate
Bait
Voice text sucks
Darn auto-corretc
You’re 0-for-2 dude … it’s “bait”.
Yes, but if his next one is right he’s still batting.333
Haha … very true!
Reminds me of the old saying that baseball is one of the few jobs where you are allowed to fail three times as often as you succeed, and the very best hitters fail twice as often as they succeed.
I doubt that. the owners will be saving money by not having to pay the costs of running ballparks, paying vendors, electricity, and so forth. What they all better worry about is if people like me feel like it’s worth watching anymore. And they’d better worry about it. It wasn’t pretty in 94, and it took some time for them to recover.
It only recovered because of Ripken’s streak and steroid enhanced HR totals. I don’t see anything like that in baseball’s future.
And even more. A lot of people don’t realize the true scope of how much money owners make from owning a sports team in the US. Especially, really super wealthy owners.
Unless a team is their single source of revenue, most of them are able to do some accounting gymnastics. Treating players salaries and contracts as assets (hence being able to amortize and depreciate), losses from revenue, etc.
On top of even that, if their revenue stream from other ventures are even higher, they can leverage their losses against their revenue (from other holdings, etc.) and reduce their tax bill insanely.
Let’s not even mention the tax breaks and perks a lot of them receive from the city they are in.
Jdt – They’d also be saving around $20M a month on player salaries, on average.
@jdt8312 I couldn’t agree more with you. Both sides haven’t been completely willing to sit at the table anyways. They kept putting it off and now March is around the corner and nothing is done. If baseball is going to continue to abuse their fan base because of money and unable to meet in the middle, I’ll glad walk away from the game. I spent enough time watching games and now my children show little or no interest in it. So it boils down to allowing me to do something of their interest without forcing a baseball game on them or taking them to a ballpark. They are still young and the oldest is almost ready to sit in a stadium to watch a game and excitement. But if owners and MLBPA can not co-exist and find a common demeanor, my children don’t need that negative energy, vibe, and/or professionalism. As for me, I have seen the worst of it in the mid 90s during my teenage years. Then my adult life was watching losing baseball by one of the storied franchises in the league. From the Lumberjacks to the Killer B’s, Pirates have a history in baseball. Now that baseball has hit its peak, there is only room for bigger cities and smaller cities have become the AAAA of baseball. It’s to the point baseball is a one sided show, rich will remain at the top, poor will tank yearly. It’s not fun to watch or witness anymore. What little faith I have left in the sport, I hoped this CBA would bring in two major changes, Universal DH and salary cap with a floor and ceiling. If it doesn’t, I am done with the game and encourage my children to get into soccer or something that isn’t self destructive like the MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL.
Rodeo!
Be a good father and don’t let your kids be pirates fans
The owners still have to pay leases and maintenance on ballparks. They still have to keep the lights on. They also have to pay coaches, trainers, and FO personnel. As well as hundreds of minor league coaches and trainers and all their scouts.
The owners will also start losing TV and ticket money on the first day there was supposed to be a spring training game. On March 31st those losses start to get huge. Every team’s home opening series is the highest attended games of the season for every team and the regular season TV broadcasts bring in more than half of the total revenue of MLB for every team.
if this drags on and forces the league to create interest again, juiced balls may be back…
What about the tired argument that these are billionaires with tons of extra money? Certainly the stadium expenses, which are less than the player payroll is not a problem for these uber rich guys. Right?
Steroids might come back with no more testing without telling the public
Al, no offence but it’s pretty easy to spot someone who’s never owned anything, and never will own anything, more valuable than a used car. If you think owners are going to do what they think may jeopardize their business in order to receive a TV payment I’m sorry to say you don’t know how serious people make decisions.
If you think that any business owner is going to give up more than half of their revenue, you have never run a business.
TV revenue makes up more than half of the revenue of every MLB team. For some it’s closer to 70%. No games with MLBPA players means they get no TV revenue.
Losing that TV revenue would jeopardize their business more than negotiating in good faith would.
Yep. Get the federal government involved…. that’s a sure way to fix things…..uh-huh…..
That was my first thought too. The only thing our government happens to be spectacular at is waste.
I’m not sure that this is a good thing per se. It’s beyond ridiculous that both sides can’t come to a middle ground here, as the asks aren’t really egregious. All the federal mediator will do is make sure that both sides behave like adults during their negotiations, which at this point may be needed, but he/she can’t make any binding decisions so it may very well be a publicity stunt by MLB to sway public opinion.
Both sides need to keep in mind that cancelling games this year would be poisonous to the MLB product. Fans are already cancelling their MLB packages and season ticket renewals are down as well. If the greed from both sides lead to an extended work stoppage of a month or more, they are going to lose a ton of fans in the process. Very few fans will show any empathy given the amount of money both sides make. This is heading towards disaster and neither side seems to care about the most important issues of all: television ratings & subscriptions, attendance and overall fan engagement in the product. This is why football needs another league that starts in the spring and lasts through August. Whether it be The Rock’s XFL or some sort of NFL developmental league, having other professional sports that will draw fans interest away from baseball might be exactly what MLB needs to refocus their priorities. They have a monopoly on sports viewership during the summer so they take it for granted.
It would be very interesting to see what happened in an alternate universe where the NBA season overlapped the MLB season.
RSN’s need baseball because it’s the only team sport in the summer
Several of the gaps, though sizeable, are still just numbers and can be closed.
Other proposals are non starters and should be tossed out forthwith.
The players agreed to not mess with the six years’ service time, then proposed ways of players gaining an extra year of service time. Non starter.
Owners propose increasing the CBT tax from 20% to 50% for first time offenders, plus losing a third round pick, plus losing international bonus money. Complete non starter.
That’s on top of a proposed increase from $210 million to $214 million, up to $220 M over five years. Less than one percent per season. Just an inflation adjustment starts the conversation at $225M.
Players still want a $30M reduction in revenue sharing. Not gonna happen.
Start by throwing those proposals out and they can begin to close some gaps without too much pain to either side.
Wow! One of these guys thinks applying for federal mediation is nothing more than a ‘publicity stunt”? If that’s the level of discussion and intelligence on the players’ side, there are going to be a lot of players losing a years’ salary and a years’ service time, at least, when the season is cancelled.
Maybe the players could send better than this clown crew to the bargaining table.
Well, that comment comes from someone who thinks that federal mediation is a non starter with players, due to their terrible experience with them in 1994- 95. The mediator in that session was totally biased and proposed things that would wipe out every gain that the players had made, including free agency.
It’s also very likely that the avenue of mediation will cause significant delay in settling things, which could be just a stalling tactic. Given the owners’ tactics thus far, that’s been their m.o.
“Labor lawyer” Eugene Freedman. LOL!!! Guy’s directly employed by a union. As if he’s going to say anything that’s not directly pulled from the union hymnbook. Some ‘expert’.
if it wasn’t federal
Bad idea, but good PR stunt by MLB.
No MLB or NHL labor impasse has been ended by the involvement of a federal mediator.
Its not binding mediation so neither side is obligated to negotiate any more openly or to make any concessions.
If the mediation declares an impasse, MLB could then force a CBA and the union would have to strike. That would move the PR black eye from the owners and onto the MLBPA. For that reason, they will never agree to a federal mediator.
Sadly, this combined with a refusal by MLB to even offer a counter proposal will likely entrench the MLBPA. It shows a lack of good faith negotiating by MLB.
The 2022 season is probably not happening.
They were $90,000,000 away on the unions big, more money for early success. Quit trying to hurt teams that spend money with the loss and dropping of draft picks. If team A has the excuse of draft pick loss as opposed to we don’t want to spend that much that’s what they’ll say; it’s just like saying someone needs to work on fundamentals, defense or bunting. Yankees, Dodgers should be spending $270,000,000 a year before luxury tax, Cubs, Phillies, Houston, White Sox, Red Sox and Angels should all be $170,000,000 to $230,000,000 a year. Allow teams to aquire or sell as much international bonus money, first round (at least) picks, and do some kind of international draft.
I SUPPORT THE OWNERS.
I used to support the owners. But once their stance became “everything you’re asking for are non starters”, I’m shifting more towards players side. In the end, there’s plenty of money for both sides to get fat, without quibbling over a couple percent either way.
Bootlicker
If MLBPA rejects the federal mediator then any consequences will be on the Players and Union. Rejecting the mediator will tell the fans it’s all about greed and no doing what’s necessary to get an agreement.
Whatever this means… it doesn’t sound good…
Actually, it sounds very good. It means they’re committed to getting this resolved sooner rather than later instead of just going back and forth making very little progress each time.
It really depends on who federal mediation favors. If mediators favor precedent in decision making then it’s way more beneficial to the owners but I’ll admit I don’t know enough about it.
However, one should look critically at any tactic used by either side at this point. This very well could be a way for owners to publicly say ‘hey look we want to resolve this’ when the reality is they know the union won’t go for it and they’ll spin it as the union being uncooperative when the reality may be that this is detrimental to the union’s goals.
Mediators dont rely upon precedent because they dont make decisions. They just facilitate conversation and try and find compromise.
Ahh makes sense mediators not arbiters.
The players union may not even agree to mediation. I said back in late November, that as long as Tony Clark, is heading the union’s negotiations team, there wouldn’t be a resolution anytime soon. He just isn’t smart enough to handle this kind of position. Unless, and until he is removed, it is extremely unlikely that a deal will be made. Someone like Max Schertzer, needs to take over, as lead negotiator. You can’t drive a square peg into a round hole, and that is what Clark is attempting to do.
I do not believe Clark is directly involved in negotiations. He is a public mouthpiece, saying what the lawyers who are doing the actual negotiating are telling him to say. He has shown that when he goes off script and speaks his mind he makes himself look stupid. If the players didn’t want him in front of the media for this, they would have forced him out a year ago, seeing as how they were generally angry with him about the last CBA.
@mstrchef13, Thanks for the update.
Tony Clark is not leading the MLBPA negotiating team. The would be Bruce Meyer, a labor layer with experience at negotiating sports CBAs and whom the union hired in 2018.
The players union may not even agree to mediation. I said back in late November, that as long as Tony Clark, is heading the union’s negotiations team, there wouldn’t be a resolution anytime soon. He just isn’t smart enough to handle this kind of position. Unless, and until he is removed, it is extremely unlikely that a deal will be made. Someone like Max Schertzer, needs to take over, as lead negotiator. You can’t drive a square peg into a round hole, and that is what Clark is attempting to do.
It’s a tactic by MLB to make the league look as though it is trying to end the lockout–which the league imposed–while trying to set the stage for an impasse, which would allow MLB to impose a contract and hire replacement players if the union does not return to work. The owners tried both the mediator and the impasse strategies in the 1994-95 strike., with National Labor Relations Board not agreeing that there was an impasse and successfully going to federal court for an injunction, which was granted by Judge (now Justice) Sotomayor.
This is some badly needed reality therapy. Ownership is going down a road that ends with the loss of part if not all of the season. They are not seeking resolution they are instead raising the stakes and hoping if an impasse is declared the players will strike, and the blame will be shifted away from ownership. But know here and now that if this happens, it was ownership who set this doomsday scenario in motion.
Right. All the owners’ fault. Players showed great flexibility moving from $105MM to $100MM. A cartoon narrative for the internet. LOL!!
MLB is not going to hire replacement players. The request for mediation is legitimate. The players union is not negotiating in good faith. Unless something changes ( it won’t be the owners caving in), time will go by, and nothing will change.
And ownership’s response? Nothing. None. Speaking of cartoon narratives… only I’m not laughing.
The owners did respond. By not making a counter proposal, they were without saying it, telling the union that their proposal was not even worthy of an answer.
Sad.
Exactly. The owners aren’t going to negotiate with themselves.
Keep simping for the billionaires, buddy. The owners need you to tune in when they scab up a bunch of college players and call it the major league caliber baseball.
There will be no “replacement players”. Unless the union arrives at some sense of reality, there will be no baseball. This isn’t a close call, as to whom has greater culpability in this dispute. The players demands are out of touch with reality, and have zero chance of moving the owners to that extent. When you start negotiations off at a position that is ludicrous, there really is nothing to talk about. That has been, is, and will be the case until the union recinds some or most of their unrealistic demands. You can like it or not, that is the present situation.
Finally, a completely content-free post!
Truly nothing more pathetic than licking a billionaire’s boots because they don’t feel like paying your favorite players what they’re worth. Luckily, it’s not 1994 anymore and people are much wiser to the exploitative power imbalances between labor and capital these days.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink!!
A penny saved is a penny earned!
There is one thing that you, I, and everyone else that has posted here can agree upon. We all want this impasse ended, and baseball spring training started. It makes no difference to either the owners or players, which side we feel is in the right. My contention, ( from the owners perspective), is that they won’t ever agree with “some” of the union’s demands. My only interest in this is for a resolution to occur. I have been presenting the owners viewpoint, which you can disagree with, but their thinking ( not mine) will not change.
@Mtemple1
Keep simping for the the wealthy cartel that is the MLBPA and player-agencies, buddy. All they want to do is extract even more of the games gross revenues for themselves – while bearing none of ownership’s investments, risks, or outright loses (see 2020).
Ownership has an asset that grows in value steadily every year AND generates revenue from ticket sales and TV contracts AND has a legally enshrined monopoly such that they never have to face competition AND have had taxpayers fund all of their vital infrastructure. For 100 years, ownership blocked any free agency from their labor force and for the next 50 years they blacklisted and colluded to avoid paying players the true value of the fruits of their labor. Anyone taking ownership’s side shares none of my values. I don’t want the lockout to end if it requires the players to concede even further to capital. If the sport is just another vessel for billionaires to exploit and extract from the less powerful, then it deserves to suffer and fail.
It sounds, from “your words”, that you would be less miserable living in a communist country. I purposely ommitted happier, because it doesn’t seem like anything would ever make you happy.
Sure, but personally I have no interest in presenting this from the perspective of either side. All we really need to know is both sides have positions they are willing to go to the mat to defend, and nobody gets everything they want in a negotiation. Resolutions require both sides to give up something.
This is the kind of comment that you make when you super duper understand what communism is.
We are completely in agreement, Blue Skies.
^^^…this…^^^
Whoa! Things must be incredibly toxic if they’re asking for outside help.
I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘toxic.’ Both sides are just dug in, not the same thing as toxic.
It’s toxic when it leads to this level of failed leadership. They knew after the covid debacle last year this was going to be tough for both sides, this should have been worked on before now.
What exactly is the leadership failure? There was no way it was going to get resolved before this that’s just not how the process works.
They could have met more, could have the non major issues addressed, they could have worked on literally anything before this happened, and last but not least they chose to go a month without speaking/negotiating. Any person with a brain knows you can’t negotiate if you aren’t even communicating. Failure of leadership.
As I pointed out the other day, one of the problems is that there are too many major issues. If there is one key thing they are fighting over, then you can attack all the lesser things and clean those up, then focus on the big one. There is no one big one, so all of the issues are up for grabs and are going to be fought for.
The leadership failure, refers to Tony Clark. Until the union sees fit to replace him as lead negotiator, there will be no agreement.
The leadership failure, refers to Tony Clark. Until the union sees fit to replace him as lead negotiator, there will be no agreement.
Tony Clark is no the lead negotiator and hasn’t been throughout the negotiations. Bruce Meyer, an experienced negotiator, has had that job for several years.
Meeting more doesn’t help if you have fundamental disagreements.
They’re both failures. Congrats to both of them and to manfred for killing the sport. They should all be publicly executed
Hello! MLB & MLBPA have had a toxic relationship for north of 50 years.
If this turns into a season-long strike or at least a prolonged strike of a couple of months or more, I hope the stations with MLB broadcasting rights negotiate a deal with MLB Owners to broadcast AA & AAA games. I’m sure the owners would be happy to generate some television revenue in the case of a lost MLB season and it would be great to be able to watch the up and coming future stars of the game that we hear so much about.
If they are able to do this, the hell with the MLBPA and the MLB owners! Let’s watch the kids who would give one of their kidneys to play for the league minimum salary of $580K per season. I just hope the owners aren’t stupid enough to prevent this from happening. Baseball needs to be on television this spring / summer. I’d much rather watch minor league games over KBO or NPL games again. I got my fill of the KBO during the first pandemic season.
Color me shocked, baseball has labor issue between both sides
And the aforementioned NFL, NBA, and NHL. Labor strife is nothing new to pro sports, it just seems like the MLBPA and the MLB owners really have a volatile relationship.
Watch the MLBPA push back….take three days then object
Millionaires vs billionaires fighting!. Isn’t it a grand spectacle? They lost me as a fan !
That’s one way to frame it. Better framing is labor vs. owner. I don’t know why it matters how much they make.
I really don’t see the “labor vs. owner”, myself @averagejoe.
I have been labor. & I have been owner. Yet my experience in both those venues was markedly different than the MLBPA or owning an MLB team. I think the monetary aspects can’t really be ignored.
It’s the entertainment industry engaging in nothing more than a very public money squabble. & that is about it.
Ducky, you’re right. This is not a “normal” labor vs. management situation.
Remember that poll that was here? The one that asked specifically whether we “sided” with the players or ownership?
How about: Bro. Neither? Was that even a choice? Because that is mine, Rob.
I can’t relate to either side in an extremely anomalous situation. I don’t even care to try.
How about: Bro. Neither? Was that even a choice? Because that is mine, Rob
===================================
Mine too. Whenever Opening Day rolls around, I’ll take the day off and head to the pub. Not only won’t I care if the players got a 5% raise, I won’t care if the owners got 6% more in revenue.
Heck, I probably even know who got what.
Right?
My Baseball Concerns = Are the Yankees Good
&….that’s it.
I’ll meet you at the pub!
Best idea on the thread.
I haven’t had 10 years of brainwashing that, “rich man bad”, so I don’t care much either. I would just prefer they do this less publicly. I know they think it helps with public relations for each side individually, but at the end of the day it hurts the league’s image, at least in my opinion.
But they have to do this publicly, because both sides know they are greedy pukes and are trying to spin this that the other side is more greedy to generate public sympathy. Neither side has come to the realization yet that the public has no sympathy for either side, that the public thinks that the players make too much money, and that the public doesn’t believe the owners one iota when they claim that they aren’t running hugely profitable businesses.
I get it.
The public nature of it strikes me as tawdry & a little sordid, too.
On some issues I’m on the players side. On some the owners.
The owners need to pay the young players. The players need to realize the luxury tax threshold and revenue sharing are good for the game.
The owners need to realize it’s a 162 game season and they can’t have so many teams make the playoffs.
Halo11 that’s exactly how I feel. More playoffs means 162 games is more of a slog. Luxury tax and revenue sharing helps level the field a bit (although they need to start making teams getting money through revenue sharing SPEND money on players. Yeah it was great the Marlins spent so much on scouting and facilities but I want it spent on the players on the field). And finally the young guns need to get taken care of. Playing in the minors making peanuts to get to the bigs and make the minimum for years while you’re the best player on your team is ridiculous. It’s what’s leads to 32 year olds wanting 7/180 contracts. If you fix the salaries earlier then 31 yr olds will want more reasonable contracts. The system now is flawed because you have to get to a point where you “earned” the right to ask for so much money at your age.
Anyway I agree with you and wanted to vent , I don’t comment often. And I only so it on mobile so the comments get out of order.
One of the great tragedies here is that, despite the players’ stated objective of incentivizing winning (really spending), there isn’t anything on the table that would really have that effect.
Tinkering with the draft lottery won’t do it. Owners refuse to spend for money, not for draft picks. They need to be forced to spend revenue sharing dollars, or implement a salary floor or tax on lower payrolls, and make it just as stiff as they want to put on teams at the top of the scale.
The players’ notion of reducing revenue sharing is way off base. They just need to require that it be spent on salaries- and not the minimum salary.
I’m afraid the expanded playoffs are all but a done deal. MLB already has a new contract with ESPN that pays them $100 M more for the first round of playoffs. They’re cutting from 90 regular season games to 30, keeping just the Sunday game, and MLB will sell that inventory to someone like Apple to stream. It’s all about the post season for all three of the major networks now. Regular season interest ()and revenue) is all local.
But don’t you think it’s a little strange that we know how much every ballplayer makes right down to the nickel, but the ownership take from the game is a deep, dark secret?
…and that’s why it’s easier for some fans to dislike the players. They know how much money they’re making, but the owners hide in the dark.
Exactly. Works like a charm on many fans. Maybe they show up at the ballpark to watch the owners own? Maybe they don’t show up at ballparks at all?
I think a driving force behind a lot of that “dislike” (as Yankee fans that’s a pretty tame term with how our fan base can get on players) is nothing more than abject jealousy.
To be sure money is part of that equation.
It’s the whole package though. Bigger house, faster car, hotter super duper model girlfriends, better parties, etc.
@blueskies
No. No. I don’t think its strange at all. That pretty much true of every private company. Its why we don’t know what Trump makes, as his company, like most MLB teams, is not a public entity. Only Atlanta has an open book. Now that makes Atlanta strange.
You might be right but I’ve never been able to understand this attitude. Very few players were born into baseball or with any special privileges or wealth. If fact lots of them came up from poverty and had to work very hard to get to where they were very best humans on the planet at playing the game we love. We want to watch these talented athletes hit, run, field and throw, so why begrudge them the rewards of their very rare talents? Does anyone begrudge their favorite recording artist making millions recording the music they like to hear, or their favorite actor for being paid a king’s ransom to be in a movie they’ll line up to watch? Makes no sense to me. All I know is ownership has done one thing really well, and that’s getting a lot of fans to take their side against very players we pay to see.
@ stymeedone So you know how much the employees at private companies are paid, right down to the nickel?
Of course you don’t.
I mean, other than baseball players.
No. I don’t. It’s none of my business.
Ducky, I have a strong dislike for the word hate, so I won’t use it. Same as idiot and moron. They’re words that always get thrown about, so I try not to use them unless really deserved.
As a Yankee fan, I have seen Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Ricky Henderson, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter…on & on be soundly booed. In some respects, no, they don’t boo nobody’s or whatever. But, man. Those are – ya know – hall of famers.
A few years ago, I read an article on why certain fans “hate” certain players. It was more geared towards football (i.e. “idiot kickers”). One thing: these oftentimes become bandwagon things. But, the real issue is an inability to grasp the bigger picture. Scape goats are easy, uh?
“If he hadn’t blown the save/struck out/fumbled/missed the kick/whatever we would have won.” Incorrect. There were hundreds of small moments that determined the course of the game. Each as important as any.
But it seems once a guy gets on a fan bases “bad side” everything about him gets brought into play. “$22.7 mil a year for a DH? Stanton should do yoga instead of bench pressing models.” Hey…we should all be so lucky to spend an afternoon curling Adriana Lima or whatever.
The owners take all the risk. How many franchises have moved over the years because they were losing money?
Yes, but there are many owners who are worth more than the Yankees!
Funny thing is the Yankee owners are among the “poorest” in the game. Their wealth is based on owning the Yankees. Hal is managing the family trust.
Yeah, but do the owners ever step into the batter’s box and try to win a game? Never! Well, outside of Derek Jeter. He’s the only owner I’ll listen to.
I have had some friends intern and work for the Marlins. One guy made it pretty high up. All he told me once when I complained about player salaries (like 10 years ago) was “If you knew what the owners made every year you would get sick” and that’s all he would tell me.
I think the owners love player contacts being so public while their books are so secretive. They love to cry poverty. “But we signed so and so to a xxx 10 year deal!” Yeah and you still make tons of money no matter what. Something has to give.
It’s also insanely wrong. The owners are abusing service time so thoroughly that 2/3rds of all MLB players haven’t even accumulated $1M of salary. It’s not even millionaires vs billionaires (though that would still be a one thousand fold power imbalance) it’s actually more like thousandaires vs billionaires. Anyone who takes the side of ownership in this is innumerate.
Bye.
Yet you take time to post about it.
Can’t believe I would ever have said this: ” I don’t care anymore”.MLB has become so boring, so predictable, so elite, so pampered, and did I say BORING? My baseball spectating is now watching my local high school and college team. More action, more fun,more stolen bases, more bunting with occasional suicide squeeze, more hit and run, etc. Parking is easier and the hot dogs and fries are cheaper.
I’ll do it.
Doing some recruitment for the circus I see
Not even a little. This is a very positive step.
I believe that this is a good sign.
That group were working with baseball in ‘94. Shortly thereafter, baseball canceled the World Series.
That’s why there is a lockout now, so the players don’t strike later when it matters more.
MLB has blinked and is showing concern.
The MLBPA should reject it.
The players will probably reject this and if they do, we likely won’t see any games until July 4th. Hope I’m wrong but these negotiations have gone nowhere fast and not expecting them to pick up anytime soon
I think the players are incredibly short sighted for trying to get Owners to agree to significant changes while still in a pandemic. Seems much more rational to strike a short (3-5 years) deal with nominal changes to minimum salaries, Super 2, and luxury tax threshold. Then when it’s business as usual (hopefully) in the next CBA negotiation, get more aggressive in the negotiations.
To me, the players appear tone deaf, just because of the timing of this CBA negotiation.
The thing is that the owners haven’t been negotiating in good faith. Any time the players have made any concessions the owners have spit in their faces and not budged. It takes two to tango.
Yeah going from $110 million to $105 million in the Arbitration pool was a real huge gift to the Owners. Can’t understand why they asked for a mediator.
Considering the owners counter was $10M I’d say that they aren’t negotiating in good faith.
@sfes
What concessions have the players given? They may have reduced their demands, but the owners aren’t even asking the players for any concession. Unlike real labor negotiations, the players aren’t being asked to take a lesser insurance package in order to get a raise, or being asked to allow labor cuts in exchange for something. This deal will be all take by the players. They will give up nothing, but get paid more, and then complain how unfair it is.
But the players are negotiating in good faith? Your bias is showing. Why are you beginning at the point where the players 110m ask was legitimate and in good faith instead of questioning that dollar amount to start with?
I’d wager that neither side is really negotiating in good faith, especially not in the areas they’ve made public.
@poop I’m definitely biased. Grade-A class login name by the way!
Any concessions they’ve attempted to make have been met with complete stonewalling. The New CBA will probably end up with the players caving again because every one of their issues is a non-starter for the owners. They have zero lenience on every one of their demands. Both sides can sound like the woman with a whole ham under her arm complaining that she has no bread… but the owners refuse to budge on anything. That’s why I’m biased towards the players. Too many pro sports owners have burned franchises to the ground and lined their pockets in the process. I just want baseball. Especially as the NFL is shining and making our sport look like a joke.
The CBA is usually only five years, and that’s a significant portion of a player’s career. I think you’re the short-sighted one. Based on your posts, it’s clear you’re pro-owner.
I’m pro baseball. I hate the way MLB has set up their business model. As a fan of the Pirates, it naws at me how unfair the system is financially, and how easy it is for the pathetic excuse of an Owner to spend so little on payroll.
With that being said, this isn’t the time for players to be crying woe is us. Most Americans are dealing with real problems, like health, inflation, product availability, etc. And one of the best ways for us to take our minds off the real problems is by watching sports. And now I can’t do that because the MLBPA wants payback for cutting a bad deal last time. So yeah, in this case, I’m pro owner.
Average pay is going down while Revenues are going up. The players had a bad CBA last time. Why should they accept another one? That doesn’t make sense.
How about costs? That seems to be absent in your evaluation.
I’ll agree they did have a bad CBA last time and they certainly shouldn’t do that again, but trying to claw all the way back at once doesn’t seem realistic to me. Maybe I’m wrong and the owners will cave.
You aren’t wrong, and the owners won’t cave. Unless the union comes up with something within the realm of reality, there will be no baseball. Like it or don’t like, that is the reality of this impasse.
Poor players, how will they live?
Owners will be the ones to dictate when they want to settle. They are just trying to put a little pressure on the players. I still see a March 1 settlement!
Poor thousands of times more wealthy owners, how will they live?
The money in the game is still immense, regardless of the pandemic. Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of owners. They are doling out those record-setting contracts to players because they are a good investment. Those players help the owners make even more money.
You want tone deaf? How about fans who feeling sorry for the billionaire owners? Financially, the game has never been in better shape. And it will get better in the near future when MLB goes international with its TV and marketing. In that regard, today’s young stars are the most marketable players in the game’s history. They have the talent, the swagger, and the personality that new fans will love. The new money coming into the game will be because of the players, not the owners. Yet the owners want the lion’s share of the profits, even though the players are the ones doing the work and attracting paying customers.
The owners have put up a billion or so to own a team. Of course they deserve the lions share of the profits. They weren’t given a team. They purchased it. That gives them lion share rights. If a player wants that, he needs to raise the required capital and buy in. Expecting the same or similar rights when you haven’t financially put your skin in the game is just ridiculous.
The players put their literal flesh in the game, so…
What made purchasing a team attractive to these owners? Sorry, but the person/persons not doing the work shouldn’t be making more money than the workers. The reason the owners invest in baseball is because they have money made previously by underpaying their workers. Players work hard. Owners sit back and make money. Why do you favor lazy CEO’s over the working person?
Sheeesh, was Cey Hey’s account hacked by the CCP?
So many generalisations there. No point responding to a “all owners are bad” narrative.
Never seen a CEO that was lazy, unless they were family. Which doesn’t really apply here. They usually work their ass off. That’s how they got where they are. Workers punch time clocks. CEOs live their jobs.
No one is holding a gun to the heads of the players, either. They’re free to pursue other professions if they believe they’re being mistreated in MLB.
Who put in the money and effort to develop the game to be in the place it is now? Who funded all the development to allow that type of broadcast to be a possibility?
No, that’s pretty normal for him.
Mr. Marx? Is that you??
No players. No game. Period. If the players pursued other professions, there would be no teams for the owners to own. No players to invest in while they sat in their offices and pinched pennies. What product would they making money off?
The players put a lot into developing themselves before they ever signed a professional contract. Players live their jobs. Owners sit back and collect the money the players make for them. If the owners are such hard workers, let’s see them play the games. If billionaires were such hard workers, let them make the products and cook the meals. Billionaires are notorious for stiffing their employees. That’s how they become billionaires. Take a walk down the streets of Atlantic City and see for yourself. That decayed remnant of a casino didn’t benefit anybody but the person who built it and left it behind after raking in half-a-billion. He delivered on zero of his promises except to pay himself, which isn’t any different than your standard professional sports owner.
Almost everyone understands that. Not quite everyone.
What other marginal workers get $500,000 a year, for 230 days of work? They should expand the number of teams not implement the dh when more and more pitchers seem to be capable of batting. Someone like McKay could have more value to a national league team because he can go 6 innings and get 3-5 at bats. Ohtani too is more valuable to the non-dh league. Players like that who could pitch as a 3-5 while hitting 230/345/430 would be greatly more payable and playable as nl players.
According to baseball reference only six current owners/ownership groups have spent more than 1 billion to purchase their team and a total of ten were purchased for more than half of one billion. Most current owners bought their respective franchises in the early 2000’s or prior to then for less than 300 million. Two owners, Ilitch in Detroit and Steinbrenner in the Bronx literally were given the teams by their fathers. Reinsdorf paid 20 million for the White Sox in 1981 and Forbes valued the franchise at 1.65 billion last year. The owners do take the risk and should reap the rewards but any risk whatsoever only really pops up once, maybe twice a decade and they reap the rewards the other years in addition to the huge windfall the owners make when they do decide to cash in and sell the team.
What’s the risk in buyin a team for a billion when you can sell it for 1.5 billion in a couple years?
Right, I see lots of players going to coach high school baseball teams – giving up a job that STARTS at $570,000/year and more than half the players are over $1,100,000.
The Owners didn’t get their wealth being stupid – they won’t sign anything that jeopardizes their future.
Twins owner Jim Pohlad was also given the team (and $4B) from his dad
@ Scott Kliesen
You are correct sir. The gains made by the owners to the revenue pie took 4+ CBA’s to realize, and it appears the players are attempting to gain all or most of it back in this 1 CBA. Unbelievably stupid and extremely short-sighted.
They needed to take heed of Colin McHugh’s statement of the players can’t expect to gain back all of their losses in this 1 CBA, but no, instead they have idiot spokesmen like Max Scherzer speaking to the media about wanting to get younger players paid, sooner, as he signs the highest AAV contract in baseball history, keeping money from being paid to younger players through asinine overpays to players like him.
Your plan of a shorter CBA until the pandemic is no more is the correct plan. As is the players realizing less is more until business is back to normal.
Max Scherzer’s pay isn’t keeping any young players from getting paid. That’s an owner-constructed fantasy.
Right! The pie is infinite!
I don’t think you are wrong. I also hope you are. As long as Tony Ckark is in control, a deal will not get done. I just hope guys like Max Schertzer see this, and force Clark out. When March 15th, rolls around and nothing has changed, maybe the players will acknowledge what the biggest problem is, and act on it.
I don’t think you are wrong. I also hope you are. As long as Tony Ckark is in control, a deal will not get done. I just hope guys like Max Schertzer see this, and force Clark out. When March 15th, rolls around and nothing has changed, maybe the players will acknowledge what the biggest problem is, and act on it.
Tony Clark is not in control of negotiation’s.
You get some air miles, you get some air miles, you can throw a few our way.
If you have to look to anything that starts with “Federal” to solve your problems you either aren’t trying hard enough to solve the problem or you are incredibly stupid since you can guarantee they will mess it up.
The “incredibly stupid”part fits here.
You should probably stop speaking into a mirror…
This is hopefully a good sign I hope that both sides realize what they both can lose if they let the season be jeopardized. Union should agree because perhaps can help both sides see a way to an agreement
Here’s a start: fire manfred
That’s probably the best way to simplify it. MLBPA would probably get into serious discussions then.
And Boras’ henchman doing the negotiating for the Union.
Manfred is the face of the 30 owners. Nothing would change if he’s fired. They’d put a new Manfred in his place. Manfred is told by the owners what they want, what they’ll surrender, and what they view as the third rail. His job is to then make that happen. The mistake fans make is believing Manfred represents the game. He doesn’t. He represents management and the owners.
Yes Manfred represents the owners. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a scumbag.
And what does that make the owners, out of curiosity?
Well said and pretty much a perfect representation of Tony Clark on the MLBPA side as well. Lots of misdirected anger towards those two which is how the powers to be on both sides want it and why neither will be going anywhere anytime soon.
Manfred isn’t the problem,Tony Clark is.
If they don’t settle by March 15 you could say they need new people on both sides!
Tony Clark is just a figurehead. There are way smarter and more experienced people developing the players’ strategy
You’ve been corrected time and time again that Clark hasn’t run negotiations in years but you keep repeating his name. Are you ignorant or just racist?
@Yadi
I was thinking the same thing!
This is a positive and timely development if it happens. Mediators can be very effective at helping two parties reach an agreement on even the most contentious issues.
The owners want to expand the postseason for additional revenue and they want to institute an international draft to further control costs, and they’ve so far have offered nothing of value to the MLBPA. Now they want a mediator?
The MLBPA should reject it so owners know they are going to have to negotiate. So far they haven’t. They locked the players out on December 1 and then didn’t even make a proposal for over six weeks.
The MLBPA has the upper hand here. Use it. The owners are starting to sweat.
Not likely. The owners are all rich with time on their hands. The players risk losing part or an entire year out of a career with a very limited shelf life.
The MLBPA has brought MLB to its knees prior and it can do it again. It needs the will to do it as it had in the past. All indications are they are fully in. They’ve been building their war chest for the past five years preparing for this, and they brought in an experienced negotiator this time, a man who came from the NHL which has had some of the most brutal labor negotiations of all the leagues. The NHL even lost an entire season, although that was pre Meyer.
The owners have more money, but they also have more on the line. They lost the bulk of 2020, but they still owe paybacks on the national TV contracts from 2020 because the networks paid out in full. They also have a large pending, season-long TV contract with Apple that they want to help offset what they owe from 2020. Every lost week will compile the owners’ problems. Last, remember, any damage to the sport hits their bottom line for a much longer period if fan sentiment sours, as it did back in 94-95.
I’m not saying the owners don’t have their own will here, but fans should not underestimate the players’ resolve here. They’re not going to end this without significant changes, and it seems the owners are now beginning to fear that.
I think the MLBPA should reject this offer until the owners show intent to negotiate seriously, something they haven’t so far.
You’re living in some long lost pre-pandemic world. First, the majority of these players already lost money two years ago. To think they’re in a position to go another year without income is borderline stupidity. And no their 5 year war chest isn’t gonna come even close to enough to pay most of these guys monthly nut.
And second, the public pressure, be it in the media, on social media, or when their out to eat getting harassed by their adoring fans, will eat away at whatever will they have to squeeze the Owner for a few bucks more.
No way this thing drags out like the NHL deal did way back when.
Scott, You’re living in some long lost pre-pandemic world. First, the majority of these owners already lost money two years ago. To think they’re in a position to go another year without income is borderline stupidity.
——-
That was easy.
First, your notes are threatening, which means you’re not comfortable debating on knowledge. Yes, the owners have more money, which means they also have more to lose. Significant damage to the game will impact them for years to come. If fans blame the players, and the players are the product, the owners still lose. Kind of like Pepsi saying, “man, our product sucks, don’t buy it.” They lose. You’re being too dismissive of the damage the owners are facing.
You obviously don’t want a baseball season this year. There is no way that the owners are going to cave into these unresonable demands. Not now, not in a month, or in the foreseeable future. Unless some sanity comes ( with a new lead negotiator), there may not be a season at all.
Wait, you think what he said is threatening and that somehow reflects on him? What an absolutely weak argument and human.
If I am an owner and lost money in 2020 and lose money in 2022 because of a short season, I get to write those losses off against future profits on taxes. Not great, but a lot less painful.
If I am a player, who lost income in 2020 and lose income again in 2022., I get to . . . ?
The average length of a player’s career is 5.6 years with one infielders having a one year career. (2007 study, haven’t found any more recent. If you have a more recent study, please post citation.) Significantly reduced income for two years for many players is disastrous. For owners, just a business expense that is probably doesn’t affect their business’ survivability.
You think these Owners are reliant upon the net income from owning a MLB franchise to pay their bills? If so, you really need to pull your head out of your butt. Whereas, somewhere north of 90% of MLB players will be in dire financial straights if they went an entire year without getting paid.
Most teams run their operating line separately from any other business.
Rogers can’t just reach in to the bank of their telco to pay for baseball things. That’s not how companies work
I’m ownership doesn’t make serious concessions, then I hope there is a strike. That is basically the only means by which labor can produce leverage against capital. The players deserve the fruits of their labor more that the owners deserve the fruits of the players’ labor.
Vast majority of the population will always blame the players. The combination of public pressure on social media, and private pressure from wives telling their husbands to get back to work so they can continue to enjoy their lavish lifestyle, will cause players to strike a deal.
It’s funny how people always think the majority of America agrees with them.
So you think the majority of Americans want players to continue to play hard ball at the expense of watching their team play games?
Who’s delusional again?
I love baseball and miss it when they are not playing but really all baseball fans should just boycott MLB and baseball and when no one shows up at the stadium anymore then maybe they will get the message. Big Maybe.
If you think a fan boycott would be meaningful, then you don’t understand what’s going on. Your little boycott wouldn’t make any difference whatsoever.
Not to mention, which I now will, is how could fans boycott without games to boycott?!
Exactly as Cey said… plus don’t the owners make most of their money from the regional sports networks anyway and not ticket sales…? Or am I mistaken?
sfes, Exactly. And they will make even more money in the future as the game infiltrates non-US TV markets. Those huge player contracts the prior to the lockouts were investments were investments by the owners. Their world revolves around making money, not losing it. You can bet the money in the game’s future will be astronomical, thanks to previously untapped markets,
So you think not having 40,000 in the stadium is not going to hurt them financially if every game is boycotted not to mention how crappy it would be not to have fans cheering on their team and players.
No effect.
We already saw that it does…
Except that would never happen anyways. We can’t get the majority in this country to agree to protest together on anything. And any protests that do get organized only happen when they’re all either carrying assault weapons or burning down buildings.
We have millions of people who selfishly won’t do what’s needed to fight a pandemic. Yet you think they’re going to boycott their entertainment?
All protests are not equal. And, yes, there is a wrong side. It’s not just a difference of opinion.
@Cey Amen to that
“No effect”
Hey look. Mlbs total revenue dropped by an estimated 6.5 billion in 2020
forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2020/12/22/mlb-teams-…
Seems to be working pretty well in canada right now with truckers. Remember the great words of AOC, you just want to date me. Wait not those. Protests are suppose to make ppl uncomfortable.
Which is why we all should just start becoming soccer fans. If soccer takes over as the sport of choice during summer for Americans then MLB loses.
While they are at it can they request a new commissioner and union head?…
Clark has taken a backseat to the outside counsel that the MLB hired (thankfully). Clark is just the figurehead he should have been all along now.
Maybe the mediator position will make it to one of the MLBTR Job Openings posts!
Good idea and considering the players have a lot more to lose from the season being delayed or canceled, they should accept mediation. If they don’t, it’s a pretty good indication of which side is bogging down the process.
This is exactly the interpretation the owners want you to have, congrats.
Do you think fan perception is part of their maneuvering ?
NLRB rules:
“Your union and employer must bargain in good faith about wages, hours, and other terms and conditions of employment until they agree on a labor contract or reach a stand-off or “impasse.” If negotiations reach an impasse, an employer can impose terms and conditions so long as it offered them to the union before impasse was reached.”
It looks like the owners are preparing for an impasse to be declared.
Yes but the owners would have to end the lockout to impose terms and then the players could strike so that’s pretty irrelevant.
Forcing the players into a position where they have to strike probably puts the kibosh on the season, so I don’t see it as being at all irrelevant.
Should have just done this from the start.
Not a school at all. Been done before. The big picture is the other economics involved. Think what goes around the ball park the bars, restaurants, hotels and ball park workers. Big money coming into the city’s and people not working and local and state tax money being taken way. Then you can’t for get FLA and AZ for spring training and the tourism it brings in.
Now you add in the gap of issues between the MLBPA and MLB ownership with money distribution. How do they (federal, state and local tax) get used then.
Not a shock. Sorry
If the owners proposed it, I don’t trust it. They’ve got something up their sleeve.
They’re doing it to make the players look bad. Since the owners initiated it, the players must be the reason for the work stoppage. Such nonsense.
These billionaires think the general public is stupid. In a way, they’re right. How else do you explain them becoming billionaires in the first place? Lots of folks out there who suck up to big business more than they’ll ever admit. We see it here with fans siding with the owners over the players who do all the work.
They did it because both sides are dug in and neither is willing to move. Look at the bonus pool: MLBPA said $105 million pool, MLB said $10 million. Anyone who has any understanding of math realizes that the halfway point between those 2 proposals is $57.5 million, yet MLBPA comes back with $100 million? If these negotiations go $5 million at a time then they will take years!
But at least the players came down $5MM – the owners went up $0. Which is more reasonable, 5ish percent concession or zero percent concession?
@Hyatt Vista
$105 million was the MLBPAs first offer. $10 million was MLBs counter offer. MLBPA came back with a whole concession of $5 million. It’s the owners turn. Considering the players offer, I would expect the owners to counter at $15 million. Can you see where this is going? At this rate negotiations could take years. Or they could hire mediators. Which they did.
“How else do you explain them becoming billionaires in the first place?”
Sheeesh, I’m pro player but that is a very interesting take, comrade. The majority of these billionaires are providing jobs for thousands of people, contributing to local business, have charity organizations etc. I hope the players get their fair share too, but not sure you need to demonize rich people in order to make your case
This girl sounds an awful like cey hey does
youtu.be/0e50fQLyebI
How did he demonize the owners? He made a critique. The real demonization was calling him “comrade” as if a healthy critique of wealth and power consolidation is communism.
At no point did Cey Hey advocate the government actually taking over the means of production. EVER.
Window dressing, a mediator has no authority.
Sigh.
No but they ideally will be good at finding middle ground and facilitating conversations.
Unfortunately this probably should have happened in December and maybe they wouldn’t be at this point
I don’t think the players will ever agree to mediation. Takes the matter of a salary cap out of their hands.
Mediation wouldn’t constitute any kind of binding-arbitration, so it would take NOTHING out of the MLBPA’s hands.
So it was a giant waste of time by the owners? Yup
Would the MLBPA ever allow a salary cap to even be seriously discussed? Nope
Good job, though. You were technically right.
It’s a good idea, but the amount of time and resources this whole thing is taking up is ridiculous.
FMCS does both mediation and arbitration. It will be interesting to see what comes from this.
Another seven weeks. Games start May 2nd.
Seven weeks wth didn’t MLB see there shadow lol
The players won’t reject a mediator. They want a contract but MLB needs to show some real movement. A mediator pushes both sides.
I have attended hundreds of mediations. A good mediator can really help.
Hopefully they can get Vince Vaughan and Owen Wilson
Mac, that’s sort of my issue. MLB has made it clear what it wants (expanded postseason and an international draft), but has offered nothing in negotiations. Some of what they offered is actually worse. Until MLB shows some seriousness, then I think the players should reject a mediator.
No counter offer from the owners? Not helpful.
Quite bad.
When their possible counter is miles away, it’s useless to make one. At this point both are digging in and that’s normal at this stage of negotiations.
I see only one side making movement towards compromise, and it’s not the side requesting a mediator.
LOL, the owners are not giving in on anything. All they have proposed is making the time to free agency worse by offering a fixed age for free agency (the player reaches 57 years of age they can be a free agent LOL) & offering a bonus pool of like $9 and a bag of skittles.
If I was the players I’d be threatening to sit out the season now. It’s 100% clear that the owners don’t think the players have any backbone and that they can just bully the players into a terrible agreement.
MLBPA’s “concession” to lower their bonus pool allotment less than 5% makes them look petty and unwilling to engage in meaningful negotiations. MLB’s request for a federal mediator makes them appear to be willing to negotiate in good faith. Whether that is the case or not, MLB is winning the PR angle on this situation. MLBPA needs to go get some schooling on winning negotiating tactics. They are losing big time about right now.
What concession did MLB make on the bonus pool? The problem started with MLB’s $10M offer, which was insulting. Neither side is winning the battle.
The problem started with ownership “offering” FA at 29.5 years old.
I don’t understand why it’s assumed that the owners offer is insulting, but the initial ask from the players is not.
Why do automatically side with business owners who won’t open their books? Are you one of THOSE people?
Because the pool is being spread across every player not yet eligible for arbitration.
And because they also proposed converting every minimum salary for those same players to a fixed salary, so a team couldn’t throw them a few more dollars even if they wanted to.
And because it’s the owners’ idea of giving more money to the pre- arb class, while the players want to make more players eligible for arbitration. If the owners are so in love with mediation, why not let all players be eligible for arbitration?
3rd season in a row disrupted, not great timing for all this.
Wasn’t the implementation of an MLB commissioner to be a mediator and unite the sides? if they’re going to bring in outside help, Sounds like there is no need for Manfred.
The Commissioner is an employee of the owners., which does not exactly make a mediator.
yes i know that is what it has become but when they came up with the idea of a commissioner it was supposed to be a judge that would mediate between the sides..
I mean, we could refer him over to the Major League Soccer Trade Rumors board, but strangely one doesn’t exist. 🙂
To that MSLI Guy…If MLSI is so good then why isnt there a MSLI Trade Rumors site? Overall you’ve overstayed your welcome and now you’re just annoying so please leave.
Mr. Fent, I’ll still be there when this mess is over. I’m on a MLB Trade Rumor site when there are no rumors or trades!
This seems to have not threaded in the correct spot responding to a question above.
I see you though.
I think maybe some posts have been excised. Something weird is happening because my posts are popping up in random places too.
It is hard to argue you are being victimized when guys are making $30M – $40M per season. That is pretty laughable. The real problem is these bums don’t want to gore their own oxen by sharing anything with the younger players. The MLBPA plan is to get the owners to pay for every improvement in competitiveness and fairness.
This is part of what has undermined them. The younger players have gotten better, and the older players are being phased out earlier since they can’t hit the increased velocity, and are too stubborn to beat the shift with a bunt.
If you want to see longer careers bring back PEDs.
I feel bad whenever I say the PED years were kind of fun!
I am actually one of those terrible pro-PEDs guys. Never a popular take,trust me, I know. But it was probably my favorite era of baseball. I truthfully miss it.
& I happen to think they should be legal.
Let guys work with actual doctors. Get the manufacturing cleaned up & out of China. Make it clean. Make them useful. Remember: you don’t get flagged in the NFL until your tcount exceeds 25.
The top players are getting $30M-$40M, but that’s just a few players, and baseball careers are relatively short. Baseball is an entertainment industry, but the top players don’t get paid like the top entertainers in other industries. In 2021, for example, Taylor Swift made $170M. Kanye West made $150M.
Hard to compare baseball players to musicians who can make a lot of money off a product digitally.
If you compare baseball salaries with other major sports leagues, baseball players in terms of AAV, contract length and security are very well compensated.
Lindor will finish his career earnings around 400 million, probably falling short of a HoF career, in comparison Lebron James will probably make around 430 million in his career as one of the top 3-5 basketball players of all time.
Dwayne Johnson made $42M in 2021, down from $87M in 2020. He didn’t have to play 162 games (plus playoffs).
I’m not begrudging entertainers anything. I’m just saying that compared to other segments, baseball players put in a lot of work and don’t get paid as well.
LeBron makes way more money through other ventures than he does in salary from playing basketball. Lindor would trade bank accounts with LeBron before LeBron could say that he’s joking.
What does that have to do with the economics of the various leagues?
If lebron is acting, producing, investing his money in ways Lindor isn’t, that’s a personal decision, has nothing to do with the league.
Baseball is working on that. Expect player salaries to rise substantially in the decade ahead. If people think entertainers make so much, tough noogies as that reflects our society’s values and how we spend our wealth. If the money is there and they earned it, why shouldn’t Taylor, Kanye, and Juan Soto be the ones getting it?
But they are fighting for the younger players by wanting increased minimums and a shorter road to arbitration.
Good move. Now the players will have to spend a week trying to come up with an explanation of why they don’t want someone to mediate the impasse.
If I wanna watch chess I’ll watch boxing, Dusty.
The problem for me with soccer is that I never really played it. So the intricacies are lost on me.
Fair, although boxing has really gone down hill in the last few decades unfortunately.
Man we are now talking about soccer, chess and boxing, we need this lockdown to end asap
Yet the machinations of a complicated “negotiation” is probably a lot less interesting than chess, boxing, & soccer. Which…yeah. It sucks.
“I’m just here so I don’t get fined.”
Tennis anyone?
Man, my son actually chose tennis over baseball for his spring sport. He finds baseball to be “boring, dad”. & he’s a Seahawks fan. & lately a Giannis fan. Formerly a Curry fan. Like that.
No idea if those are signs of good or crummy parenting.
Wait, baseball is boring???
I don’t know why any one cares which is “better” it’s an opinion. Personally I don’t care for MLS and I’d watch baseball no matter how much it dies. It isn’t for everybody but if you don’t like it it’s cool too!
……….I’m from the government and I am here to help you.
That’s it. We are getting Replacement Players.
Fine, and but before that happens Congress needs to pull MLB’s Antitrust Exemption, which no other major sports have, and make the owners open their books.
Owners do t care. See you in May
A friendly reminder that Tony Clark and Rob Manfred should be Pete Rosed from baseball when this is all finished…
Cancel the season, let them see how little the fans care, and maybe they will realize neither side is as important as the think
The posturing will continue as long as no one is losing real money. Negotiations will start for real in about a month. Until then each sides PR guys will continue to try to make them look like the good guy.
as they should, but why did it take this long?
It seems like the players association is willing to make compromises but the owners aren’t budging. How anyone can still side with the owners is beyond me
As I said earlier, the MLBPA should not accept the offer. The Athletic pretty much just confirmed that the players won’t accept the offer for mediation.
They shouldn’t. The owners haven’t even attempted to negotiate so far.
Now, the owners, of course, will try to position this as the MLBPA rejecting the offer to make the players the heavy, but it’s still the owners’ lockout, and the owners have yet to make any significant proposals.
Make the owners sweat. They’re starting to.
Make no bones about it, the owners want to break the union and they have wanted to break it for quite a while.
rofl Ive been hearing soccer is going to take over America since the 70s
Funny, so have I. I even played on my high school soccer team one year. Kids play it, but almost all stop following it. It’s never gotten traction. The NFL is the king of revenue in sports, number one in the world. Baseball is second. The NBA a few billion back at the show position. NHL 4th, about 40% of MLB’s revenue. The NHL is 4 times larger than soccer in North America. Nothing against soccer, but it’s always full of promise never fulfilled.
I love the players and have a ton of respect for their grind and their sacrifice, but I don’t get the combative tone of the players side. Sounds like it’s historical, but it just seems so counterproductive to achieving their goals. Fans can think MLB revenue is their money because they purchased a baseball cap and players can think it’s their money because they inspired the purchase of the cap, but neither is reality. The reality is its the owners money and the players are asking them to dig deeper into their pocket and give them more of it. That’s fine with me, but why they think being anti Manfred is going to help them in that cause is beyond me. They should have been giving Manfred and the owners all the appreciative love in the world for the last year or two. Laying some good happy positive vibes in anticipation of this event. Little bit of respect and humility goes a long way when asking people to give you more cash.
Maybe the owners should have shown a little love.
You don’t think they do ?
The players aren’t working 16hr days in a salt mine by candlelight. When it comes to supporting the players, there seems to be a lot of love being provided.
“ The players aren’t working 16hr days in a salt mine by candlelight.”
You were being facetious, but you pretty much described the minors.
The owners aren’t giving the players anything. The players have to fight for what they get. And the players are making less and less while the owners get more and more.
I’ll take your point re the minors.
Fighting for it is one approach. Reasonably unsuccessful in this particular instance.
A player can earn the same as an owner. He just needs to give him 50% of the value of the team the owner purchased. No problem.
Bhambrave, agree with your point but doesn’t that make you distrust the PA and what they are fighting for even less?
There has been no mentioned of improved conditions, pay or anything for minor league players? It seems as if the majority of the PA asks are geared towards ensuring players who are already paid really well to get even more.
I appreciate that minor leaguers aren’t part of the PA but still
When you say that pretty much describes the minors, you lose all credibility.
In the future I think the Commissioner should be in a neutral position not as a mouthpiece for the owners, The Commissioner, who clearly works on the owners side, which is evident to all, when he was quoted in a CBS MLB December 2, 2021 story said: “It’s not a good thing for the sport. It’s not something that we undertake lightly,” Manfred said about the lockout. “We understand it’s bad for our business. We took it out of a desire to drive the process forward to an agreement now.” So, who’s side do you think he wants to win in this new CBA? I also have a hard time with him handing out punishment for teams, and especially players, when he works for the owners. To be totally fair to both sides the Commissioner needs to be totally neutral and that person is NOT Manfred. Too bad his firing won’t be part of the new CBA.
Count me among those who feel this is likely a publicity stunt by the owners. Also a stall tactic because the mediator will take some time to get up to speed.
manfred hates baseball!
Manfred works for the owners, so maybe they hate baseball?
yes, he works for the owners and they surely hired him but the commissioner is to better the game of baseball. he’s failing miserably.
Clearly the owners totally disagree with you, and strange as it may seem, theirs are the only opinions about the commissioner that actually matter.
Such a simple concept, and yet weirdly difficult to understand.
commissioners in the past looked out for the whole league. not just profits of the ones who hired them. and that’s why baseball was america’s game.
Name one. The only commissioner in recent history who really dared to cross the owners was Faye Vincent, and he was canned. So there we have it. The commissioner really does work for the owners and at their pleasure.
Baseball was never America’s game. That was just a marketing slogan by a sports league that could only be seen in select East Coast cities in the days before TV. How much of America watched MLB in the those days? Also,, how can a sport be America’s game when most people aren’t even sports fans?
you guys are right. it’s more hopeless.
It’s not America’s game it’s America’s past time. And it originated before the NFL, NBA, or NHL existed. When there were no TVs and much of the country actually did play it as children and listened to games on the radio. Sandlots, barnstorming, etc.
And what’s wrong with marketing to sell a product or service? If a business owner can’t make money what is the point of employing people, buying goods/services that employ even more people who then buy goods/services. You start a business, mortgage your house, put your name on loan documents, sweat making payroll and paying vendors on time, deal with customers, and lawyers, etc. and you begrudge that owner making money. It’s the same thing on a much larger scale.
like in the NFL.. it isn’t about the game its about the profits.. tanking and collusion are their methodology..
Rob Manfred is single handedly ruining Baseball.
We all knew the lock out was coming, but stalling negotiations and now refusing to negotiate without mediation is not acting in good faith to the fans who love and adore this game.
I’m taking bets that “If” and I mean a big if at this point the season starts following June 2nd if it even comes to fruition at all.
Using game checks against the players is truly classless Manfred and that’s the next step in your silly little game as we already saw in the abbreviated 2020 season.
You owe it to the fans to put a product onto the field if you still intend to claim your salary.
I’ll say it once and say it again. It is 100% in the best interest of the game for the players to balk right back and even take it to the point to stretch this out into the eternity of the season.
Negotiate in good faith. Not with a back hand instead.
Fans can throw the blame on the owners or the players, it won’t make a difference. What everyone should know is that nobody gets everything they want in negotiations. They are just like trades that way: they are only successful if both sides walk away BOTH happy AND unhappy.
The players will not get everything they have demanded. No way. At the same time the owners will end up paying more that they wanted. Absolutely. They will both also complain like they were robbed, that they gave so much and the other side gave so little. Human nature sucks.
Well, I’m pro Players Union now. :/
Why Now? Why Not before they locked the Players out?… Months wasted trying to delay the season … because that is their plan..
Good job by both sides…..fvcknuts.
Interesting delaying tactic by the Owners. They remain better at the bargaining table.
Public opinion is meaningless. So they are t winning anything.
Time works for them because they have far more economic resources. Players missing paychecks will begin to feel it. This has nothing to do with PR. It’s pure business. The Owners are looking for a new system. They may get it,
This is correct, billionaire owners will mostly stay billionaires with or without baseball. The majority of players need baseball to make the high salaries they are used to.
The problem is much greater than either of these things though if they miss a big piece of the season. Baseball already has a perception problem with a big part of the population. This will only get worse if the work stoppage continues for a significant amount of time.
@mike156 tell me you don’t know anything about the history of MLB labor relations without telling me you don’t know anything about the history of MLB labor relations
Pitcher, I come here to read and occasionally comment on baseball. Not to pick fights with people who disagree with me.
That doesn’t have anything to do with what I said.
Feels like a total cop out on the owners part to me. They should be ashamed of their failure to negotiate in good faith so far.
PA will say no and then the owners will cancel the season.
If the season is significantly delayed, I hope the fans stay away from going to the games and buying merchandise. It would be great to see an opening day with empty stadiums in that circumstance. The fact is that the owners and the players knew that the CBA was expiring for months, and instead of working with some sense of urgency, both sides sat on their hands, wasted time and now here we are in early February and an agreement seems miles and miles away. Simply no excuse for that.
Hope they delay the season and lose fans because of their lack of perception and common sense
Looks like I’ll be playing a lot if golf this spring.
That should happen no matter what!
I will be in absolute shock if Rob Manfred is still commissioner by the start of the 2022 season. From the juiced balls, barely punishing the Astros for cheating, calling the World Series trophy a piece of metal, moving the ASG out of Atlanta (just to see them crush his poor little Astros for that piece of metal LOL) and now this mess of a lockout that he’s backing away from solving and getting a good season of baseball underway.
The only reason I’m going to accept a delayed 2022 season is if they impeach him and give the commissioner role to someone who actually cares about baseball, the players and it’s fans. I had my ill thoughts about the union, but I can clearly see they’re doing way more to help progress the game of baseball.
I’ve tried my best to invest in baseball while others were backing away from it and I see why. This commissioner doesn’t care about baseball one bit. A lot of trips to spring training are going to get cancelled and players won’t have the proper prep they deserve for the upcoming season. I never thought I would threaten someone like this, but I sincerely hope something bad happens to Rob Manfred.
Essentially the MLBPA starts from the last agreement and tries to improve it for the Players. That’s reasonable if what is wanted fits the long term business sense of the Owners: it will be agreed to.
It’s classic because the Players’ horizon is at best 5 years: more than half of them at any one time will be gone or on their way to being gone in 5 years and many won’t be around for 3 years, especially the 0-2 WAR fringe players which constitute half or more of the players. The average career in 2.7 years. Google it.
Most if not all Owners want some return on their investment and won’t, not don’t want to, won’t accept a loss. They might make mistakes on some players but they are not stupid (except perhaps the former owners of the Mets). They didn’t become billionaires making bad investments.
If you don’t think like an Owner, an Investor, you will take the side of the players. As do the sports writers but for a different reason: they get their stories from players and must stay on good terms with them.
The 30 Owners not named Wilpon and Katz will be around along time. Whether they’re in NY, LA, or Pittsburgh, they know what they can afford consistent with their investment and market. If you believe they are greedy or evil, you don’t understand economics.
“They didn’t become billionaires making bad investments.”
No, but a lot of them became billionaires because their fathers made good investments, paid very little taxes on them and then died.
The extent of the son’s business savvy was in not dying before him.
Genes,
The Jackazz owners institute the lockout, and then refuse to negotiate at all.. Yeah, I’d love to be that mediator.
Stupidity like this produces one clear winner….The USFL.
Is the USFL gonna be a thing? I only follow one sport.
FOX owns it and will televise games on weekends, when it would have aired baseball – had Manfred and his clown car cohorts had not sabotaged things.
Repeat after me: “See you in ‘23.”
I have to see the owners in the wrong here. Baseball has teams tanking and players are holding guys back in the minors to keep from paying arbitration. Both of these need your be fixed and owners have done nothing to rectify these.
Some/many of the “pro-owner” posters are howling about the $100 million ask by the players for a new funding pool. May I remind everybody that it comes down to $3.333 million per team? That’s HARDLY an outrageous ask.
The MLB counter of $10 million comes down to $333,333 per team… LESS than the minimum MLB salary of one player.
$100 million here, $100 million there. Pretty soon you are talking about real money. The players are seeking well over a billion dollar shift in wealth from owner to player in these negotiations with their asks on salary cap/floor alone. Then they want an extra $100 million on top of that? They may get $50-$60 million. If they want more then they will have to give elsewhere.
Since 2015 team values have continued to increase and player salaries have actually gone down. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask to be compensated at the same rate they were 6 years ago. Especially if you’re conceding expanded playoffs which will be a windfall for ownership at the expense of the integrity of the regular season
The MLBPA has $3 billion in their pension plan. Let them fund it. “That’s hardly an outrageous ask.”
The owners couldn’t get the players to take less (why would they?) and expect a mediator to bail them out of a mess of their own making.
The CBA runs through the 2026 season. Among the provisions is a minimum salary of $35,000 — a nearly 60% increase — with 4% yearly raises. All players will see salary increases, along with matching retirement fund contributions starting in 2023, life and health insurance and housing stipends. When the NWSL launched in 2013, the minimum salary was $6,000 and last season it was $22,000.
I feel like someone should point out to these spoiled and entitled brats, and im referring to both sides here, that if they keep going down this path it will lead backwards to the empty stadiums both sides claimed to hate in 2020
The entire labor situation in Major League Baseball should be unacceptable in any fan’s eyes.
Watching the two sides negotiate is like watching two three year-olds fight over a toy. There is a lot of yelling and plenty of drama but zero substance.
Both parties, the MLBPA and the owners are both so determined to win that they are forgetting about one thing, us, the fan’s.
The owners take advantage of the fan’s by robbing us blind for parking, tickets, concessions, and memorabilia. Without us, they have an empty stadium, loss of broadcast revenue, loss of advertising revenue and the relegation of their product to a non entertaining entity.
But, the owner’s don’t care. They are more interested in profits over product, drama over peace and the game is becoming the worst for their actions. Who here wants to pay $6.50 for a hot dog, $10.00 for a beer, $5.50 for a pop, $25.00 for parking and $15.00 for a pennant ? The answer is no one but we as fans do it for the love of the game.
Does or is the game loving us in return ? The Lockout is not loving us, the owner’s don’t love us and the players have lost their loving feeling for us. Both parties want ridiculous amounts of money, so much so that they would bleed us dry, literally if they could.
It is at the point that if this continues, the fan’s will leave and not come back.
For a sport that many consider to be boring, this is the last thing that it needs. To turn potential fan’s off with the negative feeling that the lockout has already produced is paramount to another black eye for the sport. For it’s current fan base it a very disappointing and discouraging show of entropy.
The owners aren’t solely to blame. They are in the lead position in the the clubhouse though as the MLBPA can share in it as well.
Looking for a big win to make up for the ground lost in the last two collective bargaining agreements has made the union somewhat inflexible.
The players all want more money, who doesn’t ? However, looking to make up for past losses at one time is extremely short – sighted at best, downright criminal at worst.
Again, the MLBPA doesn’t care about us, they care about what they think and mistakenly perceive what is fair. Which regular fan can go to the human resource office and ask for a 25% raise and not be laughed out of the building ? Do they understand this ?
The excuse of, no one else can do what we do is becoming rhetoric and not the truth. There is always someone that can do what it is that you do. That’s the real world. That’s where the fan’s live and work.
The players of course want everything that they can get while they can get it. I under
Continuing.
I understand the players point of view but don’t respect it.
I do respect what a union’s function is, act within the best interests of it’s member’s. There is nothing wrong with this as union’s do very good things in the eye’s of it’s member’s.
But, let’s face it, the MLBPA is not the regular union. It’s member’s make at the very least, ten time’s what we the fan’s do. So……. does the union care about us ? No.
The fan’s make it possible for the players too earn their salaries. Do the player’s care ? Some might but the majority do not. It’s about respect, not us for them but them for us.
So… I plead with both sides to come back to the negotiating table, hammer out an agreement that both sides can live with or the consequences could surprise you.
stupid stupid stupid. agree on one freakin thing for once.
Serious question:
Is there a single person on either side who gives a flying Wallenda about this sport? Because I’ve seen exactly no evidence.
This is why you don’t just take a month off before negotiating you clueless clowns. We all knew there was never going to be any leverage by waiting until the last minute and we were right. Get a deal done you rich, spoiled millionaires and billionaires. This is so ridiculous having 90 minute meetings, if that. Lock yourselves in a room for a week and GET IT DONE!!!!! I am embarrassed for you and you will lose fans over this. Totally pathetic.
I SUPPORT THE OWNERS. If the players end up forfeiting the entire season, so be it for all I care at this point.
The owners who locked the players out?
The OWNERS who aren’t kneeling down to the unreasonable demands of the ungrateful players whose entry level salary is 3X the level of the average doctor.
The players salary relative to doctors doesn’t matter as far as the lockout is concerned.
The owners don’t want salaries to even keep pace with inflation. They didn’t bargain in good faith in 2020 or 2021 and they haven’t bargained in good faith in 2022. No union would allow its members benefits to go backwards. Baseball players making a lot of money doesn’t mean the owners (who have way more money and, in most cases, were born into wealth) get to pay less simply because they want to.
I SUPPORT THE PLAYERS. If the owners end up forfeiting the entire season, so be it for all I care at this point.
———-
That was easy.
But neither of us care if the season is ‘lost’- that’s the main thing. It won’t be like 1995- too many entertainment options now and ‘baseball’ is much more in the backseat in general now than it was back then for other reasons on top of the greater number of entertainment options. There won’t be even remotely close to the level of anger there was in 95. Just like singer B.I.G. said in his song: “No baseball, no problem.” I SUPPORT THE OWNERS.
The owners took the risk and bought the team. Follow the guidelines or simply don’t play. I would rather see all minor leaguers play and forget these high paid players!
Agree totally. Bring up the AAA guys for $580k this year
I support the owners. If you don’t play you lose a years service time and a year of your contract. The owners should also have the right to void any contract they want.
RIght, exactly. Void the contracts and support the OWNERS!
If I was going to break down this thread into one single idea, it would be: we have absolutely no idea what the hell is going on, fellas.
Sounds like every relationship between a man and a woman.
My grandfather used to tell me, “son, you’re just too ******* stupid to understand women.”
Which: pretty much, yeah.
I like all the strong yet differing takes on the thread. I’ve read probably more posts on this thread than I have any other. It’s nuts! So much certainty combined with pure guesswork.
Also: make sure you clearly define if you are “pro-owner” or “pro-player”. Don’t be shy about using ALL CAPS to make sure you are sorted accurately.
If you’ve a bit of a sense of humor amidst all the drama, there’s a few chuckles to be had.
@bucky Sure we do. The same thing that’s happened in every labor dispute in the last 100 years.
The players make a reasonable request. The owners cry poor (but they don’t open their books) and say the changes the players want will ruin in baseball. Some time passes, money and fans are lost. Eventually the owners agree to 80% of what the players asked for and the cycle starts anew.
I guess that is where we differ on this, @PMRolling.
I don’t see this is an example of the oppression of the working class. Just like I don’t look at the owners as an example of savvy businessmen either. The entertainment industry (particularly MLB) is a world unto itself.
I just don’t think we can shoehorn our individual experiences into anything comparable to either side, man. That strikes me as delusional.
I think it’s just a manifestation of our country’s current state. There just seems to be a real strong need to align ourselves into opposing factions for whatever reason.
I’m not talking about my experience. A lot of what I’m talking about happened before I was born.
I understand what you’re talking about & when it happened. My contention is, that has absolutely nothing to do with this situation.
All the labor disputes over the last 100 years don’t have anything to do with this labor dispute? Ok
These are professional entertainers.
So, no. They aren’t coal miners a hundred years ago or whatever, bro. This is a completely anomalous situation.
What do coal miners have to do with MLB labor disputes 100 years ago? Are you ok?
“A lot of what I’m talking about happened before I was born.”
Just dusting off some kind of irrelevant example. Lots of them. You couched your take in complete generalities. Pick whatever the hell example you want, bro. Has nothing to do with this no matter how much you would like that to be true.
Nothing. At. All.
Seems like your one of those kinda Das Kapital dudes who just wants to argue & be insulting. Peace. Have fun, I guess. Enjoy your day.
& yeah. More than “ok”. Thanks for asking.
Yes. The vast majority of MLB labor disputes took place before I was born. What do you think that’s proof of?
Are Das Kapital dudes into reading comprehension? If so, you got me.
The MLBPA don’t stand a chance if an arbitrator takes over and her/his decision is binding. They’ve asked for way too much change in a short timeframe. An arbiter will come down very close to the owner’s position. And the MLBPA knows this, so they won’t agree to binding arbitration. Once again, the owners have the MLBPA over a barrel. MLBPA will have to settle for small gains only.
Mediation is not arbitration, and it’s not binding.
An arbitrator would probably give some to both sides, splitting all the babies.
The most offensive proposals on both sides would be thrown out and those that boil down to numbers would be resolved by compromise.
But then, they’re not in arbitration.
It is binding if the two parties agree to binding arbitration. It is Not binding if one side doesn’t agree to it. There are, at least, two types. You are talking about one, I’m talking about the other.
A lot of people on this thread, and elsewhere, think this is a “publicity stunt” by the owners? There is no such thing for experienced negotiators like those representing the owners. Instead, this announcement makes it clear to all attentive fans, that the MLBPA is at fault for being stubborn about demanding unreasonable changes and huge financial changes to the CBA. Watch the MLBPA start to back pedal now and back down from all these unreasonable change demands to the CBA. The MLBPA initially positioned themselves as champions of competitive balance, the fans position, and anti-tanking, but their true colors are showing now. They don’t care about the fans. They don’t care about competitive balance and they certainly have zero good ideas about combatting tanking. It is clear that those concepts were just smoke screens for what they really want…$$$$$$$$$ mo and mo and mo money!
You’re confusing the players with the owners. The owners are greedy and money hungry. Payrolls are staying stagnant while revenues and team valuations are growing $140m+ per year over the last 10 or so years.
Owners bought the team and took the risk. Play by the rules or don’t play baseball!
1955 called they want their game back.
Players are greedy too LOL It’s okay to say both the owners and players are wrong.
But depending on the mediator it can come out with different results. If they are still not willing to negotiate certain points what is the point of a mediator now? Did not work in 1994.
If MLBPA rejects a mediator, then the MLBPA should be dissolved
Get ready for a shorter season.
It amazes me how owners always complain and losing money, but will turn around and give out 500 million dollar contracts. Well if you’re losing money, stop handing out those large contracts. Sports owners are their own worst enemies.
Both sides are making more money than they even know what to do with; yet this belligerent behavior from both sides of the table garners nor warrants any sympathy from me. In fact, it just pushes me further away from the sport that I once loved. Neither side cares one iota about us fans. They can say whatever b.s. they want. If we were all to back away from watching or attending MLB games, the entire league would collapse. A house divided cannot stand, and a product without revenue fails completely.
Request for mediator turned down? Seriously?
And it’s bye bye baseball!
I am excited, 60 days until AAA opening day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I was the head of marketing for Milb or an independent league, I would build or partner on a new platform/app for streaming the minor league games and advertise like crazy on the subscription. I don’t think MLB will occur in 2022 within a timely fashion and here is the chance to seize the moment.
For the sake of baseball let’s hope this gets worked out swiftly.
The last thing this sport needs is less eyes watching the product. It is already losing interest with the younger generations as more and more kids flock to lacrosse.
Just have The minor league games this season broadcast. If there is no agreement owners can invite whoever they want to play. Anyone not wanting to play this year does not go as a service time season and owners have a right to void any contract.
The owners own the teams and make the rules players either play or find a new career!
Right. Play the minor league games and boost their salaries with some of the money saved from the greedy “major league” baseball salaries!
Silly, so silly.
At one time the NFL “made the rules” and mostly played players total spit. Then the AFL brought some competition to them and salaries started to increase accordingly. The NFL would have labor strife at times after the merger, but the stage was set on paying players better salaries. It’s why multiple leagues also rose up to compete with the NFL.
Baseball has been able to avoid that competition. Strip their anti-trust exemption and let them ACTUALLY PLAY in a real free market.
The new players who are in the minors wasting around need to dump the old guard PA turds who couldn’t get this deal done sooner.
I wonder if either side hires influencers to post on sites like this. While the bargaining is supposed to be in the room, PR is part of the game.
I too once thought I might matter… but then i grew up and became an adult and realized that we are not even a booger on the wall of importance to this industry shaking billions of dollars around.
I still like watching the games.
🙂
Let’s face it. When this thing settles and baseball starts up again, we’ll all be back in a heartbeat. Baseball knows this. The fans are completely inconsequential in their calculations. Because every stinking time we come back in droves. Every time there’s a stoppage the fans blather about how they won’t have anything to do with baseball. As soon as their team does something, they’re right back on the bandwagon. Because, every fan is a bandwagon fan. If there’s a game on, sooner or later, we’re going to watch it. That piece of this puzzle is kind of unfortunate but it’s just simple truth. Fanatic: a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal. Come on, hit it out of the park! Settle this. Please.
BTW, I went to opening day 1972 at Shea stadium. (It wasn’t supposed to be opening day.)
This is absolutely right. When you’ve been watching games since early childhood, remember the opposite-field double you hit a half century ago, you just don’t get it out of your system because of collective bargaining issues. I’d like them to settle, but I’m a realist. It will happen when the parties want it to happen, and not a minute before.
I’m not so sure about that. If the delay is protracted, I think some fans will lose interest and stay away.
Federal mediation was used almost from the start in the 1994/5, which contributed to the worst work stoppage in MLB history. It was a disaster. The suggestion is a PR move by management. The only thing that will get this resolved is the owners negotiating. So far, they’ve locked the players out, didn’t set up a meeting or make a proposal for six weeks, and now they don’t intend to make a counter proposal to the MLBPA.
The MLBPA should reject mediation and sit tight until the owners make a counter proposal.
Neither side cares about the game. Neither side cares about the fans. Neither side cares about all the “little people” that depend on these games to make a living.
Clearly, a left-wing effort to hurt the FL economy and put a dent in future President Ron DeSantis’ crushing defeat of bRANDON.
If he changed the S to a K, his name backwards would be sit naked.
I’m here all week folks, enjoy the show.
I’ve been hoping they’d bring in a 3rd party. With the incremental nudges toward a solution and some outright rejections on even negotiating certain topics, it’s time for both of them to do something differently.
It is ridiculous to me that the MLBPA will decline mediation. Don’t they want this thing to settle in time for a 162 game schedule? Probably because it was not their idea…
How did mediation help in 1994? Only works if they are both actually willing to negotiate all issues.
Arbitrator would be better, but only if said arbitrator has the right to reject both proposals so that the parties have to come up with something marginally fair.
As to why the players would say no, it’s a power move. It’s basically saying, “We are so mad at this that we’re willing to lose games (and money) short-term to make it up long-term.” There’s a limit it to this, but the owners by and large won the last couple of CBA rounds and the players badly want to stop their losing streak. I don’t think we’ll see the season start until near the end of May. Hope I’m wrong.
How do you spell stupid ? Answer MLBPA… There are ONLY 3 teams at 200 million in salary right now… Mets,Dodgers, Yankees…the fourth team is at 180 million. Yet the MLBPA demands the cap for these three teams be raised to 240 million. Does MLBPA believe the other 29 teams are going to go on a binge to pay Carlos Correa (the 2022 poster boy where Francisco Lindor was the 2021 poster boy).
The cap is only part of the problem. I think the players would accept the current cap if some of the penalties were eased, but even then, there are bigger fish, like arbitration, preventing constant tanking, certain teams not spending their revenue sharing money on salaries, and service time manipulation. There are also the little matters of them being $90M apart on a bonus pool for pre-arb players and expanded playoffs. The union may be a little dumb in this particular issue, but it’s certainly not just this issue that’s holding back a solution.
TigerFan – if what you say is true, the jagoff owners should agree to the raised ‘cap’ (as you call it), because it wouldn’t matter, right? They aren’t forced to spend up to that level, so why not agree to it? If I’m the Pirates owner and I know my payroll will be $40MM, why would I care if the tax line is at $250MM or $500MM?
That is why a salary floor should be implemented. Owners would be forced to spend a certain limit.
@Hyatt
Because it takes more players out of the range of what you can afford. In the old days the Yankees stockpiled minor league players. The high cap allows the same thing. Players ask for more because of the cap. They all want $300M. Put the cap where it does some good by preventing the rich teams from buying all of the top players. Then the players will need to adjust their salary expectations. But, of course, that would be bad for Scott Boras and his player representatives at MLBPA.
“Hi, we’re with the government. We’re here to help.”
Ronald Reagan’s hated words “Hi we’re with the government we’re here to help.” They usually manage to make things worse.
Always. Name one thing that is controlled by the government that is well run and efficient.
The list wouldn’t fit on the internet. If you think the business world has it all together…wow.
Hard ceiling-hard floor. Something is wrong when a player gets a 43 million/ year contract to pitch every 5th or so day while the 25th player (who are becoming more relevant) gets > 600K or so.
When a fan base gets aroused because a multi billionaire buys a franchise without consideration for building a scouting and development foundation.
If they don’t play after the 2020 joke of a “season”, it’s over.
salary floor too!
If it is not a 162 game season then I say let the 2 sides sit out the ENTIRE season. Few will care.. And why can’t post this after 20 or so attempts
A lot of people would care. Those who wouldn’t cannot call themselves fans.
Few would care. There’s always youth “baseball” (which most kids don’t want to play, by the way, since most kids HATE “baseball” for completely understandable reasons) and there’s always adult rec “baseball” and adult rec softball to play as well. There’s also minor league “baseball” and college “baseball” to watch. It’s not remotely the same “baseball” culture as it was in 1995- too many other options and “baseball” has been declining since then for other reasons as well. Just tank the entire garbage thing at this point.
Leave in to MLB and the MLBPA to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Why is the MLBPA hesistant to accept the salary floor MLB proposed, but want to increase the tax threshold so owners can spend more without penalty? The salary floor is almost the same thing! It would force owners to pay their players at a higher salary. Only like three teams would benefit from an increased tax threshold, but everyone would benefit from a salary floor,especially those in small market teams. Fans would be happier for their teams to retain talent by the implementation of a salary floor, again, especially fans in small markets.
Would that actually result in teams retaining players, or would it just cause salary inflation and result in basically the same problem
Salary inflation is already happening without a salary floor, so why not let more players benefit from it? Wouldn’t an increase cap also result in more inflation? Again, maybe only three teams would benefit from it, so just make it fair and let other players from other teams benefit from it through a salary floor.
@fjmendez
The proposal was for a floor of $100M and a hard cap of $180M. This takes away the upside from the MLBPA. They are all about getting Scott Boras and the high dollar free agents paid. They do not care about the middle or lower tier players or fans. The proposal creates competitive balance between the teams. The player representatives want the rich teams to keep pushing the upper boundary on player salaries. Boras only represents free agents.
Which shows their greediness and honestly, it contradicts what they supposedly stand for. They want to keep the rich teams rich and the small market teams with low payrolls. Basically, they are not proposing any changes lol
The whole “revenue sharing” is such bs too. Skip that directly and force every owner to spend a minimum payroll to balance everything out.
Bingo. Boras runs the player’s union. Same as it ever was.
With respect to parity, pushing the cap up to $240m and drastically increasing prearb salaries seems like it would be really harmful to small market teams. They’d be put in a situation where they can never win, so why not just pocket revenue sharing?
Creating a soft cap of around $80m (with the right amount of revenue sharing) would increase player salaries while incentivizing small market teams to compete. The best result for fans while increasing player compensation is probably creating a soft floor, higher minimum salaries, small prearb pool, and a small increase to the cap.
@thorn
Pushing the cap up and harming the small market teams is exactly where we are at. No owner cuts his payroll unless he realizes competing with the Yankees and Dodgers for the star players is a losing game. The only way a small market owner wins at all is through the appreciation of the team. So, he cuts operating costs and is content to own the team and lose games rather than lose a lot of money and eventually the team.
I would argue the best approach would be to pay minor leaguers and international free agents a living way of let’s say $50K to $100K. Then they would be incentivized to stay in MiLB longer and develop. Even the jump from AAA to AAAA is too great. Compensation at the MLB level should be a function of length of major league service and performance. Take the agents out of the game.
MLB actually has a good idea, and the players association is likely to turn it down?!? I think this gives us a better idea of where the problem really is
mediation is useless when two sides are this far apart… eventually the owners will have to just say ,,,the season starts under the old contract. I think they can legally do that and invite whoever wants to get paid to play… It is at this point that a guy like Mike Trout can show some courage and lead the players out of this Boras wilderness
Who’s not serious?
MLBPA initiates a new idea, the bonus pool at $105,000,000 for the Owners to pay. The Owners agreed to the concept saying they’d put in $10,000,000 if there was agreement on how to spend it.
Rather than seize the opportunity, the PA countered to an undefined concept, dropping their “demand” to $100MM.
That’s not serious. Of course the Owners threw up their hands.
If the PA wants to help young players, they can tax their rich guys and spread the wealth. They’re not serious.
Spot on Simple Simon; Simple Truth
When I heard 105 dropping to 100 I said to myself; what a joke.
That is not a concession or compromise that is just screwing with the owners.
Ownership agreeing to the concept of a bonus pool for prearb players (not in the last CBA) is a solid win for the players because they can negotiate for increases in the future. But their second offer was a major step backwards and is a reflection of how angry the players are.
Federal mediator? We are screwed.
There are some real misconceptions here:
Arbitration – a supposedly neutral third party hears arguments from both sides and renders an opinion. If binding, both sides legally bound to accept the arbitrator’s conclusion. If not legally binding, its basically someone’s professional opinion but serves as a possible negotiating stance.
Mediation – the third party hears the arguments and tries to get the parties to settle their differences through assisting with the negotiation. Unlike an arbitrator, the mediator does not render their opinion, merely assists with the negotiations such as “if you give up X, the other side can give up Y, and we have an agreement.”
Owners – anyone here who does not think the owners are well prepared to absorb the loss of revenue this season does not have a good grip on reality. Ask yourself why players’ salaries are made public – which is the opposite of most private companies – and why the owners’ books are kept secret. Oh, the poor owner has to pay this guy $30 milliion a year! While private companies are not required by law to disclose financial records, any owner who is ACTUALLY losing money would put them out there with Powerpoint presentations and wonderful graphics depicting in exhausting detail why they are bleeding out. You must remember owners are much better at making money and accumulating wealth than any player is better at playing, and most will go to great lengths and the outer edges of legality to do so (see: late ’80s collusion).
Furthermore, if the majority of surviving companies out there break even or make a slight profit, those in the finance industry know that payroll generally accounts for 65-80% of your total expenses, and when compared to gross revenue is 15-30% (risk of not being profitable in most businesses is very high if payroll expense is higher than 30% of gross revenue).. And that is what is REPORTED, which is AFTER every available accounting trick to magnify expense and hide income is employed.
I know this, with 25 years of experience up to the CFO level, and surely a wealthy owner is much more attuned to this than I am. The books are hidden, so if I am a betting man I am thinking that payroll is at the very low end of these ranges if not significantly lower. Otherwise billionaires would not be lining up to invest in ownership shares, nor would they be united in risking a season’s worth of revenue.
Remember, the owners are smarter about money than you or I could ever be. If they are waiting it out it is because they easily can, or willing to risk a smaller loss now for a larger gain later by crowbarring the players into another favorable CBA eventually. Listen to “Mr. Wonderful” on Shark Tank. He’s not mean, he’s saying that he’s not going to invest in anything unless he thinks it will make money, and only negotiate in the range where he’s sure he’s going to make money. He couldn’t care less if someone needs something or feelings get hurt, he wants another private jet or mansion. EVERY OWNER in MLB is Mr. Wonderful.
We, the fans, can increase their risk. Walk out on MLB. Don’t buy tickets, don’t buy merchandise. Don’t pay to stream, listen on AM radio for free or find it online for free. Make that revenue go down. If – and only if – their wallets are impacted, they’ll pay attention to the fans.
2022 Baseball. Nope. The animosity between the 30 Owners and Major League Baseball (Union) is at fever pitch. May be their actions and inactions affect other employees like radio/tv announcers, other broadcasting personnel parking lot attendants, concessions workers. Businesses near the stadiums, Well Hockey & Basketball Playoffs last through June. Summer NBA and NFL Training Camps open up in July.