For the past two-plus months, the ongoing baseball narrative has been around the lockout and the attempts, or lack thereof, to work out a new collective bargaining agreement between Major League Baseball and the Players’ Association. However, the MLBPA only consists of players who are currently on a team’s 40-man roster, as well as those who became Major League free agents at the end of the 2021 season. Separate from that, there is a far larger batch of players who also have ongoing gripes with MLB: minor leaguers.
The challenging conditions faced by those in the minors have been the subjects of controversies recently, with many players voicing frustration over their insufficient salaries which require them to find other jobs in the offseason and/or crowd into cramped apartments during the season. The latter issue was the subject of reports in October that MLB will now require teams to provide housing for minor leaguers.
Although that is surely a welcome development for minor league players, there are still other improvements they are seeking to make. Evan Drellich of The Athletic reports on an ongoing legal faceoff that has MiLB players seeking to be compensated for spring training. As part of this lawsuit, which goes to trial June 1st, an MLB lawyer argued that the players should not be given monetary compensation because the training they receive is their payment, which they value at $2,200 per week. “This figure is an estimate of the costs plaintiffs would have had to incur had they attended a baseball prospecting camp instead of participating in the minor leagues,” is how the argument was framed by Denise Martin, senior vice president at NERA Economic Consulting.
The players’ side, of course, disagrees. “All of a sudden they aren’t employees during the time periods where we call it ‘training,’ even though they’re operating under the same employment contract that requires them to perform services, quote, ‘throughout the calendar year,’” said Garrett Broshuis, an attorney and former MiLB player himself.
The players have long argued that their modest compensation, even when they are paid, has knock-on effects on their diet, sleep, mental health and other areas of their lives, which limits their ability to live up to their potential as athletes. Spending a month at spring training without any pay at all surely only compounds those struggles. In the wake of the news about this lawsuit, one minor league player articulated that particular frustration on Twitter. “I wish I could go to the grocery store and pay with ’an opportunity’,” said Nick Kuzia, who pitched in Double-A and Triple-A for the Padres in 2021. “I think most places only accept US dollars. Will keep you updated.”
MLB is just making itself look worse and worse and making it hard to be a fan. They must not have had real jobs before. Everyone gets paid for training!!
It truly is crazy. Imagine if Amazon said, na this is technically our offseason and a month long training, so we aren’t gonna pay our employees anything. Lol. What a joke. Just pay the kids.. it doesn’t make a dent in their pockets
Yeah pretty much every job requires at least a couple months paid training, it’s crazy to not want to pay them for training. Especially when it’s these same kids who play most of the spring training games for 2-3 weeks. Without them, there would be no games which means no revenue from ST games.
I hope MLB loses this one.
@bravesfan, this is what it is like now to live in a society that has become decadent and greed-centered.
We have seemingly forgotten that baseball is just a game.
When I was a kid, most pro baseball players at all levels worked in the offseason at various kinds of jobs to earn a living..
Read some good books about baseball’s early days!
When I was in the Navy near Chicago I could attend MLB games for a couple of bucks.
When I was 35 years old my friend’s son was playing minor league baseball and hockey and working various jobs to make ends meet.
Things have gone nuts, and now we may be witnessing the end of baseball as “the national pastime”.
Not “just a game” anymore and that’s what ruined it.
Now, we may not even have a season in 2022.
They’re all supposed to talk again today. Maybe they will.
Time will tell how it all turns out, but it ain’t looking good!
Ah, Yes, Fred Park, “The Good Old Days” when we had Child Labor & people worked 6-7 days days a week for starvation wages.
Here you are yearning for the days when Millionaires (now Billionaires) screwed everyone else so they could make a few bucks more.
Yes, men like Mickey Mantle had to work other jobs in the winter early in their careers, but did the Yankee Owners have to do that, too? Of course not, because they were royally screwing their employees, the players.
The ONLY reason we had the BLACK SOX Scandal was because of the Owners’ greed. The White Sox owner was so greedy, he refused to pay to have his players’ unformed washed. HE WANTED THEM TO PAY FOR IT.
So, yes, Fred Park, let’s glorify those wonderful days of Owner Greed.
Fred, You are over 100 years old? MLB players have not had to have jobs in the offseason since the 1940s.
@Fred Park:
Playing dress up as a kid is a game. So too Monopoly and wiffle ball.
At some point kids grow into adults and enter the work force. Fashion designers, bankers, and baseball players work for pay. Baseball is a profession. You, the end user incur costs to watch games, wear clothes, and get a mortgage. The game always ends.
Baseball has done a lot to destroy the game as we knew it long ago on and off the field. I lament that too. That however is distinctly different than thinking the game is ruined because players are no longer indentured servants… that that status quo rather than baseball as a profession is the way things should be.
@outinLF
I started following baseball in the 70s and I remember Mark Fidrych working on his family farm in the off season. Richie Hebner was a grave digger, and Dave Bergman was a stock broker. FA was in its infancy, and Wayne Garland signed a monstrous contract of 10 years for $2MM. Not $2mm per year. $2MM total over 10 years, coming off a 20 Win season with Baltimore. That was HUGE dollars at the time. Most players didn’t come near that salary. Many, especially those with families, would work other jobs not only for the money, but to prepare for a second career after baseball.
Ah the Richie Hebner photo.
The Inquirer ran it in black and white on the front of the sports page decades ago…..I had it on my wall.
My pop turned it into a conversation about dedication…great memories…
@Mantle536, I never advocate any kind of return to “The Good Old Days.”
I just believe that what started out as a fun game for everybody slowly turned into a spectacle of greed. and that it is a sad commentary on humanity.
I bucked onions with Harmon Killebrew for a dollar an hour. I worked in the Fruitland, Idaho, corn cannery for 90 cents an hour.
Harmon was happier then than he was after he got rich.
I was just as happy then as anybody is now.
That is more or less my point.
I am 85 years old. I was 9 years old in the summer of 1946 when I started liking baseball.
No offense, but appeasing you and others your age would kill the game of baseball. If you care about baseball, you should be okay with the game shifting to fit a younger audience because that is who will be watching it for the next half a century. The game is better when players can focus on the sport full-time. It’s better for players, fans, families, and everyone involved. Arguing against this is the equivalence of yelling at clouds.
I’m 66, outinleftfield, and in the 1960s (my childhood) most players had winter jobs, unless they were among the highest paid players in the game, back then.
In fact, even the great Mickey Mantle did things for few bucks more. As he noted in an autobiography, he endorsed a NY clothing store in print ads & in return he received a few Free Suit. No Money, just some suits, and he was thrilled to get the suits.
So, no, you don’t have to go back to the 40s to find players working winter jobs to get by financially, or making barter deals for needed merchandise.
The players issues are not about the high salary players. The issues being raised are about preventing younger players from being stalled in the minor leagues for sake of super two clocks, and arbitration control over younger players, and teams tanking for competitive balance compensation and then never approaching a team salary level that is going to allow them to compete.
Owners and managements of teams have been abusing these rules that were created with good intent. Players want it to altered or enforce penalties on organizations that abuse the current systems.
Its not 1946 anymore. This is a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry. Players are the game, not owners.
“Players are the game, not the owners”
This is not how business works. All businesses, if looked in that context, are the workers, not the owners… but life doesn’t work according to our whims and wishes, it is subject to the inconvenience of logic and reality.
“ it is subject to the inconvenience of logic and reality.”
That is pretty profound for a simple, succinct statement, man. Well said & very true.
Oh yeah, it is much better that the players are not getting screwed anymore. Although as you point out, the owners are richer than they used to be. So I guess you are okay with the fans paying for that.
Owners are not losing money by giving the players more, they are charging more money from fans. THEY are not paying more, WE are.
^^^ Slept through Econ 101.
Yea, clearly Fred’s “good ole days” comment is completely irrational. These are adult men who are driving in revenue for a business. If the business wasn’t driving revenue in off their performance on the field, then I’d agree. These guys should only play the game for the sole purpose of it being a game. But reality is, it’s more than a game and it’s a business. There is no reasonable argument that these adult men should not be compensated for this. Cause otherwise, they should invest in another job that will take better care of them than these billionaire owners
Those players who worked second jobs didn’t have the expectations these organizations have on players in the off season either. They’re representing their organizations 24/7. If owners can charge fans to watch these games, then they can pay the players playing on them. Period. This is not a game for these players. It’s a career. And they should get all the money they could while their body allows for it
Fred – Did Pesky really hold the ball?
OutinLeft has never let facts get in the way of his narrative.
Lol what an out of touch take
“Americans are too greedy nowadays, that’s why I’m taking the billionaire’s side”
Come on now, you old timers are bringing facts into this argument. The youngins only deal in emotions. They dont care about facts. Get your horse and buggy out of here.
Both sides are greedy and the people paying both of them are you and me. Neither one cares about you or me. Not sure why we should care about either one of them. I doubt I will ever go to another game ever again. I will act like these youngins and put my hair in a manbun and just play video games.
Just because those guys chose to work additional jobs didn’t mean they had to. Players might not have had the riches they do today, but the MLB minimum salary in 1975 was still over 15% higher than the median family income. Wayne Garland was still making over 15x more than the median family income when he signed that contract. Today’s average minor league player makes 1/5 or less of the median income.
Erm… that’s exactly how it works. Employees are the lifeblood of any business. Without them the business simply cannot function at all. The only reason employees get treated so badly in ‘real life’ is that there is the scarcity that you have in MLB (I.e. kind of tough to constantly find a replacement to paint the corner with a 90mph curve, but easy enough to find a thousand people to flip burgers), so employers can afford to fire someone and replace them on a whim. The fact you don’t understand this makes me think you’re about 12 years old or have never worked a day in your life.
Not a blameless situation for the MLBPA. They could take up a few righteous positions with miLB players, instead of just using IFA and the Rule4 draft as negotiating positions.
The union will not however, because MLB players stand no chance of GAIN themselves out of trying to do the RIGHT thing and helping way underpaid kids, who I agree are being skinned by teams not paying them for ST.
Why not add them to their bargaining position? another useless add on the players agenda, akin to the salad chef’s in each clubhouse they deem more important?
Yes, the union could make the minor league players as part of their union. Makes sense to me.
@LABeachguy
That’s exactly what it would take for the MLBPA to get involved, for currently they are an outside party to the dispute. But if the Union was to represent them, they would actually have to cater to the low end of the pay scale, even though dues from those players would hardly fill the Unions coffers. Scherzer and Cole aren’t going to be happy unless the Correa’s are able to break the record contract. (Trickle down Economics). Adding minor leaguers will never happen because they won’t pay this Union enough.
I think the crux of the argument is how the contracts are structured, and how you view it.
Some people say MLB players don’t get paid for ST because they don’t start receiving payments until the regular season begins.
Others say MLB players do get paid for ST because it’s baked into the amount they receive during the regular season.
Do teachers get paid for the summer months when school is out? Depends how you look at it.
For me the big question, which I don’t see mentioned in the article, is this:
If a non-roster player is invited to spring training, participates in all the training and ST games, then gets released at the end of ST, does that mean he gets paid absolutely nothing for his time in camp? That’s my biggest concern.
The minor leaguers who have guaranteed contracts for the year might have a hard time arguing they are working for free, when MLB players are on the exact same payment structure (paid during regular season only).
minor leaguers outside of 40 men are not mlbpa members. there are hardly anything mlb’ers can do.
All the MLBPA has to do is hold a vote of the minor leaguers. If they majority vote to join the union they are in.
The problem is even a salary of $50K per kid plus benefits would cost $300+ million per season. The kids would be entitled to union pension and health care. The money would obviously come from the current MLB players. The pie cannot be expanded,
“The appeal of unionizing every pro baseball player, though, was always outweighed by a lack of resources, the geographic decentralization of the minors, and the dreamy idealism of the players. “The notion that these very young, inexperienced people were going to defy the owners, when they had stars in their eyes about making it to the Major Leagues — it’s just not going to happen,” – The Legendary Marvin Miller
This is what i don’t get… theyre negotiating the MLB minimum salary from 575k to 650k or whatever, but these kids in the minors are living in poverty, barely getting paid. Instead of negotiating a higher minimum MLB salary, why not pay these minor league players a livable wage for the 6 months they work?
are you saying mlb’ers paying minor leaguers? don’t make sense!
bucsfan – It’s in proportion to revenue. Minor league teams generate a fraction of the revenue ML teams generate.
When you’re playing in 7,000 seat stadiums with $10 average ticket prices and little if any television revenue, you can’t expect players to earn too much.
I would certainly want to see minor league players earning more than the $1,100-$2,000 a month than they currently make. But I understand why they don’t. They are like interns.
And why do you suppose minor league players aren’t in the union? Do you believe the players are afraid of the union becoming more powerful?
it’s best for the minor leaguers to unionize themselves. if they are added to mlbpa, negotiations become too complex. which already are anyway.
An excellent read on why minor leaguers are treated so badly and are not unionized.
sbnation.com/mlb/2018/6/5/17251534/mlb-draft-minor…
Bottom line, not the fault of the MLBPA.
Nice article Bluesky and appreciate the link. I’d still like to see a chance at unionization of the milbpa as in the article, but think we both know where the pushback towards the idea is coming from within MiLB players and mostly.. It’s from Non US kids, who probably are still making more playing miLB ball than they would be back wherever they are from and not meant as a slam, just my thoughts.
Bull. Marvin Mille clearly admitted the reason he minor leaguers were not included in the beginning is because “it would complicate the negotiations” That is code for negotiations within the MLBPA. The minor leaguers are going to want better living conditions, salaries and benefits. The Union would need to compromise among themselves before approaching the owners with their top demands. The major leaguers knew then as they know now these kids would cost them money. It is like when the older brother eats the whole pie. The MLBPA knows their isn’t a second pie and isn’t willing to share. They prefer to have the owners negotiating separately with the minor leaguers so they do not have to contribute a portion of what they have already consumed. The money is gone. Max Scherzer isn’t going to share his.
If MiLB players were part of the MLBPA, the vast majority of their membership would suddenly be comprised of kids who don’t care about the millionaires and would gladly accept the return of the reserve clause and an MLB salary cap of $10M per team in exchange for better minor league salaries. Major league players would essentially be unrepresented because of being so outnumbered.
@johnsilver – The MLBPA does not want to take up the case for MiLB because all of the MiLB players are trying to ‘steal’ current union members’ jobs.
Untrue. Try reading the article I linked for the real story.
There is only one segment of the population of worries about people coming to “steal their jobs”. That segment typically doesn’t include many MLB players.
The MLBPA cannot say anything about minor league players since they are not part of the union and have not asked to be part of the union.
Agreed. The MiLB players should unionize on their own since MLBPA doesn’t care about them. The stories about how teams (my Angels specifically have treated their minor leaguers is atrocious).
Almost every major league player came up through the minors, so they know what it’s about better than anyone, so it’s obviously inaccurate to claim that major league players don’t care. It’s incomprehensible really, especially when you consider what is going on now. Whatever the minor league players have gotten is a result of the efforts of the MLBPA, including pay for players on the 40-man.
“Everyone gets paid for training.”
I have undertaken plenty of training that I was not paid for. Not in terms of actual, immediate dollars. Indeed, I have actually had to pay for a lot of that training.
But – once again, as has been the case the entire time – my experience has nothing in common with MLB. Like all of our experiences.
The bottom line, if you are playing minor league baseball and are worried about your pay, you need to find another job. Very few real minor league prospects are worried about their pay. The players who are just hanging on are worried about their pay and those guys need to get out of the game today and start their lives.
The longer the owners give them a paycheck, the harder it is for them to get on with their lives.
mlb need those older, “hanging-onto” players to make up teams in the minors. besides, most baseball players lack other skill sets to to live off other well paying jobs because they have been told to concentrate on baseball only.
Viz,… And that’s why they need fewer minor league teams. Where would you be if you threw away your twenties playing minor league baseball? Where would I be?
The best thing they can do for these guys is push them out of the minor leagues. Giving them a living wage until they are 30 doesn’t help them.
What are they going to do with their lives after throwing away their 30s?
THANK GOD I couldn’t throw a ball 10 mph faster. I would have loved playing ball into my early 20s, but I would have thrown my life away playing into my early 30s.
But it’s better to give away money and feel good than to actually do good. If a player is worried about his paycheck, he needs to find a different job.
Why are you so bitter? Who hurt you? Why the resentment and hostility towards an entire working class?
I would’ve played MiLB for free. Doesn’t mean I don’t want other guys to make a living wage.. Getting invited to spring training is an honor given to higher level minor leaguer. The league televises them. Sells tickets. Concessions. Monetizes. Paying the minor leaguers their (below minimum wage) salary is a no brainer.
I, like tons other, also didn’t find my career until I was in my 30’s. Spent my 20’s getting high, surfing, living paycheck to paycheck like everyone else in San Clemente or Dana Point (which you should know because you must be from the area).or Newport or Laguna or Huntington or any town like it. I would’ve been much better off had I spent that time kicking around in the minor leagues instead of call centers. And now at 39 I’m doing great.
Stop being so pig headed and disconnected. These players have done nothing to earn your scorn. Stop being a bozo. No one wants to hear it. You’re wrong. Mellow out man. No need to be so confrontational and repetitive on something where you’re just out of touch. Enough of your sour grapes, you’re making yourself look a fool.
Lol
Ragefully typing about not being bitter. I love this place, man.
I’m not bitter at all, I’m just smarter than you. If you want to have fun in your twenties, have fun. But don’t ask other people to pay for your fun.
And If people were paying you to have fun, you likely would have continued to have fun long past your expiration date.
Good thing you got your act together in your 30s. Most successful people don’t get that kind of grace period.
“Ragefully” is over the top hyperbole. Next..
Hey, just call ’em like I see ’em. I actually thought you were being ironic. But with all the insults, crazy person typos, & rambling point it sure reads as; Angry Dude.
& like I posted below, introspection is hard.
Haha you’re a self righteous idiot. And I’m using a broken iPad to type, who cares about a couple typos.
You’ve obviously never seen real rage. Love your life, I don’t care what you think or say. Won’t change the fact there is no rage in my heart.
Anyone who has to self proclaim to be smarter than someone else never is. Who even says something like that? You’re not a high enough caliber human being for me to respond to any further. Take care.
Bucky, let’s come up with a quick solution that actual helps minor league players instead of a solution that makes people feel better and hurts minor league players.
Expand the 40 man roster to 50. Minimum salary for those players is half the major league minimum. Players that turn 26 at any point in the season are free agents the following season and may negotiate with any team for fair pay. After all, if a player is 26 and not on the 50 man roster, he’s in a dead end job and should be a free to pursue other opportunities.
Do something like that and you’d actually help people. Giving these players with no future in the game a few bucks just to hang on doesn’t help them.
This is a great example of people who would rather feel good than do good.
So funny.
Look. You’re obviously trying be edgy online guy. Read what you’re typing, man. Next.
if so, provide them classes and training need to live after baseball. but then that costs too much for your generous owners!
Those clubs still need to fill roster spots so games can be played. Just because a player isn’t going to be a 10 year MLB guy there is no reason why a person couldn’t make a livable wage as a pro minor league player.
That’s not bad, Halo.
I am just not smart enough to figure it out. One thing I would advocate for is giving MiLB guys some kind of college scholarships too. Something to fall back on.
The stark reality is that less than 1% of all minor leaguers play an inning in the bigs. Tough odds.
Ducky, I see the logic in providing an education, I do. But I certainly don’t think it’s MLB ownerships’ responsibility as posited above. I agree with your wording that they choose this career, but also, what about the many that came from college already?
Too much it makes my brain hurt, man. I don’t like what the owners are doing. I think it represents them poorly. But to force them to provide players with things outside of baseball is… going a bit far.
Now, if that’s an agreement, like many other jobs offer (salary incentive pay for education or education reimbursement programs) than I’m totally fine with that, just to clarify.
It’s a very, very fine line for me. And it compounds the problem because of the incredibly unique position of MLB ownership.
I disagree with the other guys saying you’re an “idiot” though, especially from long-time commenter, Halo11. That hurt my feelings too, and I had a good cry. But, I’m recovered enough to type now, tissues notwithstanding.
Ducky, If they would have paid me a living salary to play baseball after I graduated high school and into my early 30s, my life would have turned out horribly. The 20s were the years I spent developing a career.
Baseball in not doing these 27 year old minor leaguers any favors by giving them a few extra dollars to hang on.
For the vast majority of these players, the minor leagues is about as useful as one of those worthless college degrees that doesn’t help you get a job. For most, it’s not a career path, it’s a hobby.
Sometimes people need protection from themselves. Enabling bad choices is not act of kindness?
Bull. Marvin Mille clearly admitted the reason he minor leaguers were not included in the beginning is because “it would complicate the negotiations” That is code for negotiations within the MLBPA. The minor leaguers are going to want better living conditions, salaries and benefits. The Union would need to compromise among themselves before approaching the owners with their top demands. The major leaguers knew then as they know now these kids would cost them money. It is like when the older brother eats the whole pie. The MLBPA knows their isn’t a second pie and isn’t willing to share. They prefer to have the owners negotiating separately with the minor leaguers so they do not have to contribute a portion of what they have already consumed. The money is gone. Max Scherzer isn’t going to share his.
So, so complicated, man.
It’s my understanding that some clubs offer college scholarships as an incentive with high pick high schoolers. Just extending that particular notion. But – you know – I do spend other people’s money rather well. So there’s that.
& I’m not saying we gotta send them to Columbia or Northwestern or whatever, btw.
& I can certainly do/say/post idiotic stuff. But, you know. Halo’s one of our guys. & he doesn’t.
Didn’t you just say the same thing verbatim one minute earlier? Or is it just an error of the MLBTR system?
Oh, I get it Halo. It had to be made brutally clear to me that my days of football & baseball were over. Brutally clear, man.
@Halo11Fan Yeah, late round draft picks like Mike Piazza, Albert Pujols, Ryne Sandberg and so on should’ve just hung up their cleats and made room for the real prospects. Clearly no talent being lost.
DBF – Aren’t you a business owner or independent contractor or something like that? That would be a totally different situation.
It’s like Theo working for the Orioles as an unpaid intern for three summers while he was attending Yale. He did it because he knew the experience he’d gain training would be invaluable.
my son was paid well interning for the company. like $30,000.
I am, @FPGuy.
& you’re correct, it is a lot different. I was just kicking back on the use of “everyone.”
& that’s actually a pretty good analogy.
Is spring training not an invaluable experience and showcase for potential MLB players?
Yeah I know some internships do pay decent wages, it probably depends on supply and demand. Lots of people would love to work for a MLB front office, and the opportunities it could lead to are endless, so that’s why they are typically unpaid or low pay internships. Certainly helped Theo move quickly up the ladder.
Ducky, I have had similar experiences, but I have also been in an industry wherein it is the industry standard that training is an inherent part of the job function, thus, I was paid to train (think military spec ops off-rotations).
Nonetheless, I understand both methods, but I take two things into account with this:
1) MiLB players aren’t compensated adequately to begin with, therefore the owners voted to give housing; and
2) owners are making themselves look even worse, demonstrating their true nature by caring about profit only. They are simply regaining the money they used to pay for housing, so to them it’s zero sum.
Either way, this, right or wrong, is precisely what turns the public against ownership and demonstrates a lack of good faith (perception) in their other negotiations, imho.
and minor leaguers are saying they are hardly getting anything for housing.
I guess I don’t have much sympathy for the plight of MiLB players.
They are making a conscious decision, here. No one is forcing them to pursue a baseball career.
A choice many of us have been confronted with. Look. When I was trying to decide about my future after I graduated, one of the options would be to do an internship & try to advance in the world of architecture. If you make it to the top, you become a rock star, gazillionaire artist. Or: you spend your life “designing” parking lots with a team of other “architects” & top out at maybe a couple hundred K.
My personal inelegant solution was to enlist. I realized what the odds were, didn’t care for them, & did something else. Part of growing up, man.
Yes, I agree with with you, Ducky. I guess the only question would be the expectation of pay. I see the inherent argument since they are going to be the main attraction to ST, therefore the money-makers. I also understand that if they signed up knowing they weren’t getting paid, it’s considered part of the “verbal contractual agreement” for their working condition, which will ultimately be decided via the lawsuit.
No matter right or wrong, I think the owners lose. They either lose based on the perception when they win the case, or they lose the case and the public too, imo. They have the chance to come out on top of this with a very delicate topic, MiLB working conditions/pay, but are choosing the alternative. Even if they’re correct legally, it does nothing short of providing MiLB the requisite ammo to unionize, which MLB ownership despises, and should be reason enough for them to bring something to MiLB players.
– Again, whether legally right or wrong, lose-lose for owners, imho. –
Well, I am a stickler when it comes to contracts, Clip. Obsessively so.
But: you’re right man. It will look bad once it’s properly spun. Especially in today’s ultra-devisive America. Here on the board – for example – guys don’t just post, “I’m for the players” or, “I take the owners side”. Nay. It’s gotta be expressed in ALL CAPS. Typically with a slew of exclamation points.
I get it. Reflection & introspection kinda suck. Lot easier to just define yourself in a readily available fashion. But, that’s a much bigger topic than baseball.
Yes, very well said, as usual, Ducky. Also, I’m trying to take a realists perspective on my outcome-based argument. I’m not committing to one side or another specifically because of the emotive attachment to which you referred. I’m often lockstep with you on business/economics/contracts/ownership.
Before the elimination of the Reserve Clause, all of baseball operated like a plantation. The only part that still does is the minor leagues, and MLB will resist giving up control here just as they did in the fight against the Reserve Clause.
Really enjoyed the comments as usual (which make this site) but as an English (British,- call me what you will ) person I’m a bit amazed that baseball sees fit to treat it’s MILB future with at best indifference. Is this how you invest?
One of the many reasons that I love baseball is that I see it as a living breathing social history of the US. Starts with black people not being allowed to play till 1947.
On so many levels baseball is a monopoly (anti trust exemption) and not a business. I’m guessing but 90+% of MiLB players will never see the majors. MLB treats these guys as flotsam and a sunk cost. Some comments suggest that treating that flotsam as such is “doing them a favour” and encouraging them to go out and get a real job. But that flotsam is responsible for nurturing your real gems. So do you compensate your “nannys” or do you let your gems swim with the sharks from day one?
I think it is utterly nuts that the 99%tile are paid subsistence wages to ejaculate that final 1% into the system. In horse racing terms that’d be lunacy – to let 99% of the bloodline behave as piranhas – to produce that 1%.
Up until recently (as MLB culled about 20% of it’s MiLB system) baseball was a prevalent sport in 256 towns throughout the US. – what do you want it to be? To you want it to be ” a land of dreams and opportunity” or do you want it to be serfdom for the vast majority?
Baseball needs to understand it’s relevance before it becomes a whimsical irrelevance and MiLB is at the heart and soul of that argument.
In old skool board terminology – please flame away…..
As usual, your take is unique, nuanced, & savvy, @A’sFaninLondonUK. Appreciate the insight.
PS @ Fred Park
If you’re 85 and chatting away here – I love you brother. That everyone has the chance to chat here is great and I value your contributions. Educate us on Mantle and Maris and Lolich and Freehan and Hank and Willie…..
Have wonderful weekends
Hello Ducky,
I really enjoy your comments as always alongside those of Halos (jeez I like an Angels fan) but it gets so much bigger when we talk MiLB. What does MLB want itself to be? It’s my humble opinion but it could be so much broader so much more relevant just by reaching out. I hate lost opportunities in commerce and constantly watch a game shooting itself in the foot.
I can take solace in the fact that I don’t know much – passionate but ignorant….
.
@A’s fan: I believe your estimate of 90% or more of players never seeing the majors is pretty close to the mark. Few even get a look at the brass ring. Even of those who do reach the majors, their careers can be over in the blink of an eye (the notorious “cup of coffee”), then back to the minors they go, as often as not never to return. As someone else has already pointed out, the role of the vast majority of the players drafted after the first couple of rounds is to give the real prospects someone to play with and against. They are canon fodder in a system that eats up hundreds of young men every year and spits them out. This is the Faustian bargain they make, and whether they go into it with clear eyes or not (keeping in mind we are talking about teenagers and young adults), we as fans don’t have to approve of how they are treated, and if we have any sort of conscience… well.
So you’re also right in seeing baseball as a kind of microcosm of American history and society, and you can see the truth of this plainly in the comments here. So what if it’s a cruel system, some say. Some actually applaud it, as a form of Darwinian justice, or some such nastiness. There’s a whole lot of that about everywhere these days and people seem to be less reluctant about expressing it publicly. Yes the grand old game has always had a darker side, and so it looks a lot like us, for better and for worse.
A’s London: “ I can take solace in the fact that I don’t know much – passionate but ignorant….”
Man, if that’s not the quote of the day! Applicable to most of us, sir.
Blue: Microcosm of society comments – totally on point. I was trying to articulate that in one of my other analogies, but couldn’t do it nearly as well as you just did. Nice job, sir.
Well said. It makes MLB look bad and owners unlikeable
It’s like it’s a cabal of sociopaths.
I don’t remember getting paid to attend school. I do remember paying to go to college however. I also remember paying handsomely to put my daughters in karate which is also training. I do think that minor leaguers are grossly underpaid at least compared to MLB players. But the MLBPA can do the right thing and include them in their union. They are future MLB players after all.
Fred – Only about 10% of minor leaguers make it to the big leagues.
So if they are compensated for spring training, does their service time start at the same time? I can see that as being discussed as well
Lots of players are at spring training not on mlb contracts. I don’t think they are asking to paid at mlb scale, but instead just to be paid for a days work.
And, in the owners’ minds, that is about $20/day at best. What a bunch of greedy cheapskates!
Exactly. I’ve heard the argument that until a player is assigned to a team the organization doesn’t know which pay scale they should receive. A. AA, etc.
That’s weak sauce, though. Would be plenty easy to set up a standard rate for spring training.
MLB, not content with all the negative attention they’re receiving during a lockout, decides they shouldn’t pay the future of their sport? Bold stance.
“Bold” is one of the least applicable words I would use in this case!
I think he was being sarcastic.
Yeah I think we can stop acting like it’s “both sides.” The owners are not, nor have they ever been, negotiating in good faith. They have no problem sharing hundreds of millions of revenue with owners making no attempt to field a competitive team, but the second the players want a piece of the pie, the players are “greedy” (despite most of them spending several years making far less than minimum wage, despite the fact more than half of them make 570k–league minimum).
So maybe the players should get better jobs if they hate playing baseball so much. The owners have one function…make profit. That may upset you but it’s true.
Or maybe they could just hold the line and see how the owners react when their profit is 0 because they no longer have a product.
Rsk3228 – What player(s) claimed they ‘hate playing baseball’?
trolls hired by owners?
Hired? Look around, these trolls will work for free and be happy about it, apparently.
true owner of sports franchises act much different a normal business owner. Steinbrenner, Jones, Buss, Balmer, Cuban, Dodgers. That’s just a few folks who are super fans of their clubs. Owner a team is much different and those are the type of owners MLB should be looking to have. Thats why you own a team
Even Steve Cohen, a dude who made his money as a hedge fund manager, is a positive example of ownership in baseball (at least from a competitive standpoint).
This is such an ugly look for mlb. I mean in what other industry can you ask your employees to work for free and make out like that’s a reasonable expectation? And it’s not like these guys are on massive mlb contracts where the league min is somewhere in the ballpark of a half a million a year. Spring games still bring revenue. The players deserve to be compensated in some fashion. Housing, food, healthcare, a worse min wage should be covered while they are working during spring training. That’s not unreasonable at all.
So are they employees during spring training or not? That tells you everything.
I would think if they cannot take their training to another team due to a contractual agreement, then they are an employee.
100% employees. Not even a debate
When people are training at my job they get paid.
we’re talking 200 players per team. That’s costs $400,000 to give them 2k for the month
Should not be an issue
“No way! That $400k will buy me some gold cuff links”, said every owner.
Nutting has a Scrooge McDuck room full of gold he swims around in.
This takes the cake. I have tried to be somewhat objective while my sentiment rests with the players. This plus Manfred’s comments have exposed the owners. They are trying to optimize their profits by taking advantage of the players. Reminds me of the book I just read about Boeing. Profits first and then worry about the planes. The owners look upon the players as the costs of production which should be minimized. They should be investing in the players whether minor or major leaguers not exploiting them. I
Here’s the thing, they are only maximizing their cash flow, not their wealth. Treating their players better when they are first coming up would make future contract negotiations easier. Being seen as a good businessman who delivers a good product at a fair price and treats his employees well makes it easier to accept that he is a billionaire. Fans will be more likely to come to games and support the team. It is what I call “long term greedy” and is not a pejorative but a recognition that you will make more in the long run by building a business everyone loves rather than hoarding every dollar you see (think of Costco vs. Sam’s Club).
You think think treating 15th round picks who are unlikely to ever help them in the future would save them a nickel on future contracts?
Fourth round picks get a half million dollar signing bonus. And those are for players unlikely to contribute. Go back 15 years and look at fourth round picks. Only one was any good.
For the vast majority of these minor leaguers they are playing baseball because it is better work than a real job.
The 15th rounder won’t likely make the Majors, but owners seen as decent human beings will be easier to negotiate with than owners seen as greedy douchebags.
I am a business owner who negotiates contracts and salaries. It is bad business to pound your employees and suppliers into the ground just to make an extra dollar. I have loyal employees, customers, and suppliers. They brag so much about our company that I don’t have to spend a dime on advertising. That is what I call being long-term greedy.
How much money do you give to charity every year?
I think back on what I was doing after high school. I would have loved being drafted in the 15th round and played baseball rather than working those 9 to 5 jobs and going to college part time. My life didn’t start until I was 25. I think that’s pretty common.
The problem is these 27 year olds who are addicted to baseball like drug addicts. They hang on and need to get a life. If the owners give them more money to allow them to hang on until they are 30, who are they helping? Certainly not the ball player.
If you are worried about a paycheck in the minor leagues, that’s a clear sign you need to move on with your life.
Tens of thousands of dollars, split about evenly between human service, education, and medical charities. It should be more, but I live surprisingly modestly and don’t like attention (hurray for screen names).
Halo, you and I are probably more alike than most people on this thread. I can tell we both worked our asses off to get where we are. You don’t like seeing others coddled or being told what they have to do. I agree with you. I just don’t think it is a good look for MLB to have young players eating Ramen every night. It is bad for their business.
why draft 15th rounders?
The cold hard truth about minor league ball is that each team at the lower levels has about 2-3 real prospects and the rest of the guys are only there so the real prospects have games to play.
The 15th rounder is a lottery ticket that is expected to wash out quickly. But he’s needed so the first rounder can play a full schedule. That’s his real job.
The fact one hits every other blue moon is a bonus to ownership.
For Love, great stuff. I’m in business as well. I had owners treat me great and set me up to run my own division of their business.
Treating people well and leaving a bit on the table go a long ways. The guys pounding folks for every penny don’t get the rate of return or referral business we do. And they probably spend more on marketing than we pass along to our customers and suppliers.
My charities, by the way: pediatric cancer, local children’s hospital, toys at Christmas.
Are minor leaguers employees or trainees?
MLB: yes.
MLB as an organization sucks. This no pay during training argument must fail or it could have repercussions across other businesses.
I am a business owner and more sympathetic with MLB owners than most fans, but this is a bridge too effing far. Think about that, Manfraud, a guy who doesn’t normally bash owners starts bashing owners!
A few years ago I was speaking with a retired couple working at a minor league game. She was a city council person in their town. They would invite players over for dinner and I thought that was a nice grandmotherly thing to do. Then I looked up how little minor leaguers were paid and realized this is the only way the players don’t eat Ramen or Taco Bell every night.
Rather than coming off as greedy douchebags, show a little concern for the health and mental well-being of your employees! How do you look yourselves in the mirror?
Minor leagues are an added expense that owners pay that fans ignore.
Sure, as a property, owning a major league team is a good investment, as for generating income, not so much.
Of course minor league players deserve more, but it seems like everyone wants the owners money. They are not the government who can operate in the red every year.
It is so hard for those working class owners. We should all pour one out for their losses. Ridiculous.
Operating a baseball organization at a annual loss augments all the other business ventures of owners. It provides influence with local government, capital among clients and business partners and is a long term investment. They are not running a hot dog stand. Let’s not cry for billionaires because their vanity ventures don’t work out.
Why the hyperbole? People are very good at giving away others people money.
The players with a chance got huge signing bonuses. The others are playing ball because it sure beats working 9 to 5.
For most of these guys, playing baseball is about as worthwhile as going to college and getting a worthless degree in Gender Studies or the like. But unlike the student who racks up a six figure debt for having the best time of their lives, these people get paid for playing baseball.
It’s a better deal than most college degrees. And when they grow up, they can get a real job.
Why isn’t this a “real job?” While the majority of these minor leaguers won’t make the majors, they are providing entertainment to paying fans. Aren’t these fringe players also aiding the development of future major leaguers?
At this point minor leaguers get screwed by both the owners and MLB players union. The players forget where they started or were bonus babies and did not feel the affects of minor league life. The players union should negotiate a piece of the pie for the minor leagues, giving up a percentage of their salaries and benefits for their minor league brothers. The owners should match the MLB players contribution.
Ridiculous. It would pay dividends for these teams to take care of their minor leaguers to make sure they have decent pay, housing, and nutrition so they can concentrate on developing as players. I’m sure paying them in spring training will not break the bank.
The Union does not need permission from the owners to unionize the minor leaguers and include them in the bargaining agreement. It is the MLBPA that is at fault. They do not wish to share the bounty. Unionizing the MiLB would require pension, health care and salaries to be shared with another 3600 players. Scott Boras controls the union representatives and he doesn’t get paid to rep anyone but free agents.
do you think mlbpa negotiating for minor leaguers would be easy? they are trying to negotiate their own fate and locked out!
The owners had to lock them out to prevent a work stoppage right before the postseason, which would have been devastating to the owners, who make a lot of money in the playoffs & World Series.
so, locking out players would not devastate them and the baseball as a whole?
The owners “had to” stop the players from playing the season by . . . Stopping them from playing the season?
Is this Garrett any relation to Scott Broshius? And yes this makes the owners look really bad. Yet, that’s probably why some players seem to do so well early in their MLB careers – after going through all this, they would do almost anything to stay in the Show. And after they start collecting real salaries – and yes, even the minimum is a “real’ salary – they lose some motivation. Just my thought.
Who is Scott Broshius?
You talkin’ about the former Yankee Brosius?
Yes I was. My bad. Spelling was never my strong suit I guess. Thanks for clarifying.
*Are you talking about the former Yankee, Brosius?
If we’re going to do the correcting thing, we should do it right.
This is a horrible argument for MLB. If we accept that the training is the play, then players should be able to freely jump from one team to another and have a choice who “pays them with training”. And then they should be able to freely pick whatever team pays them for their services during games.
It’s ridiculous how the minor league players get shafted time and time again while everyone else gets paid. Who cares about raising the league min from $500k to $700k when minor league players are living below the poverty line and have to get a second job just to afford food and rent? This is just adding insult to injury. The MLBPA needs to do more to advocate for these guys if they want to break the “billionaires vs. millionaires” narrative and get the fans to side with them.
Accept the minor league players are playing in the minors by there choice. They have options. Go to college, get a real job, etc. if they don’t like there situation, they have the right to make a change
There are labor laws in this country. There is a minimum wage and slave labor was outlawed in 1865!
Why in the heck would the MLB do this?
Like cogs on an idiot wheel so are the MLB days of Rob Manfred.
Underpaid to begin with now let’s accept the free labor on the players part. Anyone who thinks a full mlb season is happening on time is out of their minds. MLB just keeps looking worse and worse here. The MLBPA should fight this one as long as it takes regardless of the money gained or loss because of this. I would never work free for an employer and neither should a professional athlete. You can argue against the players side all you want, but the images on both sides of the coin are favoring the players even more with each day hour and minute that passes. Rob Manfred is an absolute embarrassment to the game of Baseball.
I SUPPORT THE OWNERS in their dispute with the MLBPeeA. But I disagree with this. F “baseball”.
Stay woke, neophyte
I don’t think minor league players should necessarily get raises, but they should be paid for Spring Training (regardless if it happens this year). Hopefully there’s no baseball season at all this year- enough of the garbage. The country would collectively shrug its shoulders and barely even notice.
MLBPeeA? Are you 12?
huh, oh! your payments from manfraud could end now!
You will change your tone *NOW*
haha! the troll changed the tag!
Grow the piss up.
You should have changed your underwear along with your goofy name. You are quite crusty.
Done with Baseball: Just out of curiosity, and not judgement, why the change? Pro-ownership in negotiations with MLBPA is pro-ownership here, where owners make the rules and employees follow (again, not a judgement). So, what’s different now?
Because I support the OWNERS in their dispute with the rich, tone deaf, ungrateful “men” who play in MLB and whose entry level salary is more than 3 times more than the average career doctor and whose average salary is more than $4 million, but I dont support not paying players who are paid basically a subsistence wage to begin with.
Okay, so your support of the owners has nothing to do with the how much the owners make, but it directly correlates to how much the workers make, regardless of whether that’s a significant percentage of the lie or not? Because many MLB players don’t make the big-contract money or get the retirement that they Scherzers do.
Just seems a bit of a conflicting thought process. Again, I’m no judge, and you’re entitled to your opinion, obviously, it just seems you’re arguing for ownership sovereignty on one hand where there’s a union in place to ensure equitable contracts, but the working class on the other where the ownership has sovereignty.
This is at least the third screen name for this troll. I assume the first two were banned, and this one will be eventually too.
I enjoyed reading your posts on this Blue. A lot of good points and contextualized arguments on your part. It’s why I really enjoy reading Ducky’s posts as well. He’s my NYY bro too, but he’s got great Socratic-style writing/thinking attributes too.
Likewise. I aways appreciate reading thoughtful posts from people who are respectful of others. Not a lot of it around there days.
You have to empathize for the club owners. They really had to reach in deep to cover the housing and now they’re being asked to shell out incredible dough for roughly 6 weeks of minor-league salaries?
Next thing you know they’ll be responsible for lunch breaks. Where will it end?
Next perhaps minor leaguers might well be counted as only 3/5th’s of a person.
Billionaires & millionaires squabbling over millions & billions all while holding down young men making pennies. Does any one in MLB, even one person, have an ability to “read the room?” This is both fascinating & embarrassing. No leadership.
Completely indefensible. And whoever thought now is the time to release this nonsense and make the owners look like Scrooge is an idiot.
they already were!
Tone def… MLBPA don’t even represent minor league players. What a joke!
I didn’t think any player got paid for spring training. The PA doesn’t care about minor leaguers, why would the MLB owners?
Because the MLB are the ones responsible for paying them? What a horrid take, do better.
Big difference. MLBPA doesn’t employ or have any responsibility to minor league players. It’s like asking why McDonald’s doesn’t pay for Burger King employee benefits – two completely different systems (analogous to two different entities).
Do you expect the major league players to give up something in exchange for the owners paying the minor league players? Would you willingly take less pay and/or worse benefits so someone you don’t know in another department can have more?
I believe they get a generous food per diem. I know that sounds cheap and I’m not defending the owners, but getting paid 150 a day (or whatever it is) with the hopes of landing a job that pays a minimum of 615,000 doesn’t sound crazy to me. Teaches in the public school system have to “student teach” which is essentially training they have to PAY for in hopes of landing a 60k job. The reality is more people want to play baseball than there are spots available which creates a low paying minor league system.
I like that you defend one form of labor exploitation by pointing to another example of labor exploitation.
Exactly as they want you to do.
I like that you concluded I’m defending it despite me literally saying “I’m not defending the owners.”
If you say you aren’t defending them and then defend them…
I know this has nothing to do with MLB, but I feel the need to add to your metaphor between MiLB and teachers. First, because student teachers are not paid for their student teaching or have to pay for the opportunity like you say, many would-be teachers drop out of their programs because they literally cannot afford to participate.
Another addition I need to make is regarding your claim that teachers make 60k dollars a year. That is an extreme overgeneralization and represents the average, not reality. I teach in rural Missouri with a Master’s degree and make 39k a year. If I didn’t have that Master’s degree, my base pay would be 35k. And that baseline is considered high for my area of Missouri.
Again, I apologize for taking your thread away from the topic, but I am not sure that your comparison justifies your position like you think it does.
teachers are guardian of our future. they should be paid very well!
^^^^THIS is the labor issue people should be concerned about.
Even minor leaguers don’t have to buy their own bats. Teachers have to buy their own school supplies.
Do you think players don’t buy their own bats?
Evan, I believe many people see this as more likened to asking the teachers to teach summer school for free.
100% clipper. Also, how much a baseball player makes doesn’t affect how much teachers make.
Who wants to tell them to pay teachers more they’ll need to pay more taxes?
There are things that teachers do for “free” and often that list grows rather than shrinks. Writing curriculum so the district can display it on their website has become an unpaid job for some. At least you get to put your name on it. So when the nut jobs come screaming about what you’re teaching their kids you can point them to it so they can be satisfied (which they’re not). But I digress. It’s really more like getting paid to attend professional development workshops. And when the district realizes the cost, they start running their own workshops. That becomes someone’s job description without any additional pay. The bottom line is cheapskates don’t want to pay for nothing so they coerce people into doing things for free. That’s kind of how it works.
My wife used to teach and this is exactly what she has said 100 times. Teachers don’t buy stuff for kids because it’s part of their job. They do it because those kids won’t have everything they need if teachers don’t provide it.
Pitcher me rolling: Yes, sir, exactly. And it begs the question, regardless of which side of this you fall on, at what point do the ball players (teachers) say, “no more.” Not because they don’t care anymore, or because they aren’t generous people. But because whenever you give an inch, they take a mile. There’s a reason why that became an adage. At some point (and I am certainly not the one to determine what that point is) they will say, “no more.” It’s the nature of business, human nature, & life.
Would this work with plumbers?
“Listen, Ed…your payment for installing that toilet is the experience of installing that toilet, do you know what that would run you in trade school?”
Isn’t that called trade school? Potential future plumbing paying to get the training needed to be vetted?
And since learning is a lifelong journey, no need to ever pay them.
This may be a bad analogy. Plumbers might recognize MLB’s tactics and flush them.
Minor leaguers should definitely be paid for spring training. Their season salary isn’t much to begin with. What is it $400-700 a week? My cousin John pitched 3 years in the majors with the White Sox and Brewers and I remember him saying he had to find work in the offseason. Even when he was in the Majors he still worked in the offseason. Michael Fulmer of the Tigers works as a plumber in the offseason and has since he was drafted by the Mets. He said he doesn’t have to but wants to. It gives him a skill for when baseball is done.
In sports news that’s actually relevant to modern American culture:
‘The Next Football Season Begins In 6 Months’
MLB believes that once you sign your contract you aren’t an employee but you’re their possession. They don’t want to pay minor-league players during spring training but the Chicago White Sox are requiring all players to be “fully vaccinated” which includes the booster shot or they can’t participate in spring training. If the player disagrees with it and wants to be released to seek other opportunities they refuse to release them. The White Sox way is do it our way or don’t do it at all.
everyone can say they hate the owners for this, but just wait until the PA sells these non-members down the river. neither side actually cares.
Playing baseball is a career choice. Spring training is a fancy try out camp for players without contracts to find jobs. If minor league players don’t like the arrangement they do not need to try out or play baseball in the mlb system. Oh, and who ever said that playing baseball was intended to be a full time job? It is seasonal work. Essentially part time. I am pro management on all of this nonsense. Also, every player negotiated as an independent contractor. In the real world mike trout gets paid the same rate for the same union job as I do.
Between the lack of pay to minor league players and outrageous price of getting kids involved in the sport, this will eventually spell the death to a sport and entertainment I love so much.
Probably not.
Kids good enough that get drafted, take a chance.
If they have half a brain, they will go to college and get some education, but guess what, they don’t get paid for it beyond a few scholarships.
“Hey guys, I think there are still five or six people that are taking our side during the CBA negotiations.”
“Hold my solid gold beer stein.” – MLB owners, probably
MLB was going to declare all minor leaguers “student athletes” and not pay them at all but the NCAA blew it for them.
This is just the next best thing.
Evan Drellich doing the MLBPA a favour in the ongoing PR war and the battle for hearts and minds.
Dear Lord. The MLB is really out of touch. No payment at all for minor leaguers because they get training? Hey owners, it’s 2022 not 1850. Cut the kids a break and have a heart.
“Training” is not money. You can’t pay for food and lodging with the training. The owners are so greedy it’s sickening. I hope they get sued by the DOJ for illegal practices.
Minor league players are provided food and barracks for spring training, to my knowledge.
With all the money in the game it wouldn’t kill MLB to write minor leaguers $1000 bonus checks for every week of Spring Training. They’re just greedy SOBs with no perspective.
They have to get jobs in the off-season (which is more than half the year). What a hardship.
They should get paid Florida vacations in the winter for 6+ months!
“The first contract for a newly drafted player is for 7 seasons of minor league play (unless the player signs a Major League contract before the 7 seasons are done). For those first 7 seasons, players are paid slotted money that changes by level and years of play.” (Google it)
Drafted players get a job for 7 years to improve their skills. They get raises as they advance levels. Unfortunately, only 10% (some say more, the highest estimate is 16%) make it to a major league contract which currently starts at $570,500 (for part of a year). The average major league career is about 5 years although 25% of position players wash out after one year, then 11% per year thereafter. Pitchers last longer.
The players know this when they sign up. They know they are taking a chance. It’s a merry-go-round: not many grab the golden ring.
Ffs, so MLB wants to screw their own minor league players in addition to them screwing with their service time. 9 billion dollars ya babies, how much more money do you need? What a bunch of clowns – ruining the game and no wonder why so many have lost interest in watching. Gonna lose me soon and millions of others unless you wake up
Are these young men forced to seek a baseball career?
Many are called but few are chosen!
This is not an internship. How can MLB reasonably argue that they should not pay employs while they are being trained? Are MLB players going through the same “training” not being paid? Are MLB teams making profits while these players that are “training” are being featured in televised spring training games, or at spring training games where teams charge admission for fans…in which both instances a team makes a profit? This is a joke, and a lame attempt to save money by the owners.
Then the milb wanna bees can play independent ball and work at Costco. If they want an mlb opportunity they can take the deal offered and work off season at Costco. Lots of cops, nurses and teachers have part time or summer jobs to make ends meet.
Yeah, lots of cops and nurses live six to a two-bedroom apartment and eat macaroni and cheese and ramen because that’s all they can afford. Sure. Right.
Some people seem to love it when the little guys gets screwed.
If you don’t like it, get a real job!
Some people here seem to just plain hate baseball. Which does raise an obvious question.
If spring training games were free, maybe I could understand a sliver of MLB’s argument. But, they’re not. So, the owners want you and me to pay, the players to play for free and they get richer. That’s the arrangement they’re arguing for.
Some people might be willing to accept that gladly. But, it’s not good enough for me and I don’t think it’s good enough for anybody else, either.
A few people above have mentioned it but let’s not forget how ridiculous the PA is in all this. They don’t fight for the AAAA player, they don’t care about them or lack of spring training pay, they just care about the big guys getting 30+ mil a year.
Baseball has the longest journey of any sport to reach the majors, it also has the most amount of minor leaguers by a long shot. This should have been addressed 30 years ago, but the PA has always always fought for the wrong thing.
It’s an opportunity for a lot of boys and young men to do what they love for half a year and go to school for the other half.
If you don’t like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Pretty simplistic response don’t yah think.
Work and go to school? Who the heck are you even talking about. This isn’t college baseball. These are grown men who have an employer that doesn’t even have to follow us labor law. What they do in their off time isn’t anyone’s business. The fact you’d call an 18 year old a BOY tells me where your head is at. These aren’t scrappy mom and pop operations…they’re international businesses valued at several BILLION quite often. It would behoove them to pay their workers fair salaries at all levels in our current society and stop devaluing their brand with all this horrific PR.
Until now, it wasn’t taken to court. This is the way it has been. Its nothing new. I had an opportunity to gain experience in my field of PR in college by working for free during my summer vacation. I would have been provided food and lodging but no money. I would have had a great item on my resume when done. I would have loved to have done it at the time, but I needed to work during the summer to afford my schooling, so I had to make a choice. I chose not to go. The company that was doing the PR project was seen as being a good corporate citizen by providing the opportunity to students with no experience. MLB is doing a similar thing. I am just saying that what is happening isn’t isolated to MLB only. If the PR position had paid, it sure would have made things easier for me. While I hope, either thru the lawsuit, or because of the lawsuit, the players get paid for ST, it won’t surprise me if the owners win the case. If its legal elsewhere, MLB has to get that same right.
Why the entire Professional baseball system isn’t unionized is beyond me.
I can’t stand this anymore. I’m an old man I guess, and figure you need to work for a living, playing baseball for a living would have been my dream! But… if you love playing the game so much, suck it up and play and work hard! Love of the game can only get you a chance. If you are actually special, you will get picked up. If I was 20 again with no kids and family,I’d be playing every chance I could. Regardless, but reality has to sink in at some point. I love baseball, but it owes me nothing snowflakes!
unfortunately, baseball has become entertainment business. so you are saying the owners can make billions in this industry but players have to be slaves?
Making billions ?
Slaves ?
Extremism is bad.
arte moreno bought the angels for $180 million. he wasn’t then a billionaire. the team is worth over $2 billion. and he is a billionaire mostly because of the team’s worth.
why do people say owners aren’t making real money until they sell the teams! but many owners have become billionaires just like moreno because team value sky-rocketed!
Ok. I’ll take your point on team value.
Just don’t think the year on year bottom line for an MLB team would sit in the black to the tune of billions.
And pretty sure, plenty of real world modern slaves would love to be a minor leaguer.
“Other slaves have it worse so these slaves don’t get to complain”
What?
Baseball has always been an entertainment business, but it is also built on a feudal structure that remained fully intact until the 1970s and the elimination of the Reserve Clause. Unlike other sports, and other businesses, MLB owns exemptions from antitrust law granted by the Supreme Court, and a few years back, MLB lobbied Congress to pass a law specifically protecting MLB from having to pay minor league players for overtime or spring training. Sounds fair.
The minor league players need a Curt Flood moment, but they probably aren’t going to get one because MLB keeps the players too scared to challenge the system, and most of them aren’t around long enough. So the feudal/plantation system that was once all of baseball lives on in the minors. That some people defend this situation is depressing.
Thanks for the background.
Their is choice. You choose to chase fame and fortune and can opt out of the situation at anytime. I appreciate the balance could be better, but plenty of MLB millionaires came through the economic challenges of the minors unscathed.
The depressing thing for me is the angst and hate being generated by the PR efforts of both sides. Very ugly reading. Extremism is bad. The pamphlet dropping planes of WW2 have nothing on this battle. Moderation of thought and opinion is required.
Actually….if MLB was just subjected to labor laws like any other business would be it’d help.
Not just any other business, but other pro sports. Only baseball enjoys antitrust law exemptions, and that not being enough, they demanded and got laws created just for them from Congress.
I will probably get the quote wrong, but Ted Turner once addressed his fellow owners by saying, “we have the only legal monopoly in the country and we’re effing it up!!!”
He was right then and he’d be right now.
Foppert – “slaves” that are millionaires??
we have been talking about minor leaguers, you know?
Many actors have to start in community theatre. Many comedians start at open mike nights. They are entertainers too. Its called paying your dues.
Nobody starts in their profession at the top, unless they inherited it. So in reality nearly everyone who isn’t born into privilege pays their dues. That doesn’t mean some business are special and entitled to exemptions from the laws that everyone else has to follow. That’s what baseball has. It also doesn’t mean we have to subscribe to the bootlick culture that some seem to think should be our relationship to businesses and employers.
I bet you never hardly ever worked for a Class A baseball salary. Get informed.
On that note… get what you can get! I have no problem with that.and the owners dont care about the game. It’s just an investment for them.
Teams charge fans to attend ST games in which many minor leaguers are playing. And they receive broadcast revenue for many of these games. Hard to argue MLB isn’t recouping some direct value from these players’ services.
Pay that man. Pay that man his money
Hmm the thing is… pretty sure spring training is supposed to be for mlb’ers getting ready for their season. It’s always been seen as a luxury to get an invite to spring training as a rookie. Not all minor Leaguers in an organization are getting invites to spring training. So, it’s more of a taste of what it’s like to play with the big boys
I totally agree the situation has prob been taken advantage of. With minor Leaguers making up the majority of playing time in spring training, but thats just a loophole.
Minor Leaguers are still trained. Minor Leaguers are still paid. Just in the minor leagues.
I feel the equivalent argument of jobs paying people in training is more like going to another store that’s not yours and expecting them to pay you
When I worked for a big corporate store I opened up another store and it’s not like the other store paid me. My original store did
Maybe they should have a milb spring training that would be equivalent
All minor leaguers are MLB employees, unless they are under contract by an independent team. They are held to antitrust rules that ONLY MLB seems to legally be able to use. They’re aren’t considered interstate commerce….right. Player A CAN’T quit one employer and seek another.
Exactly, not only are they not paid for
Spring training but also should an opportunity arise with another org or a different league they would not be permitted to just walk away.
MLB spring training is for the Major Leaguers to get ready. There is a minor league camp also. Sometimes, MiL players get invited to Big League camp. (Especially if you’re a C). But all players have a spring training.
Well, that’s part of the problem this year. MLB players aren’t in ST so it is specifically MiLB spring training as they aren’t “locked out.” So, I think that’s why they’re saying they should get paid because right now, they make up 100% of the paid baseball-playing employees, 100% of the entertainment for revenue, and MLB ST is for them, specifically, as of right now. Just a perspective.
MLB proving they’re the evil overlords we thought they were.
The owners are cheap.
Just like our government, the system is completely broken. Why do players who are under multi-million $ contracts need a union? Why do they need to accrue more pension $. The ones who need a union aren’t represented at all. Where else outside of professional sports and Hollywood do you see union members making mid-6 figures or more annually… or yes… Congress.
The players union isn’t a union in the traditional sense. It’s advocacy. Very different from powerless workers gaining influence through solidarity in order to maintain basic rights and standards. How many American workers belong to a union AND have an agent? It’s not normal and totally incomparable to usual labor disputes.
hollywood actors.
Yep. Sports figures, Hollywood actors… who else? Someone who’s job isn’t equivalent to winning the lottery.
Do you think we’re all better off if billionaires keep that money?
We’re not better off either way. It doesn’t really effect us. If the players make more or the owners make more, no effect for us.
So what’s the issue with the players union?
No real issue, other than it’s not really a union in the traditional sense. Let the dogs fight, as far as I’m concerned. I just see zero moral high ground for anyone here. It’s the privileged vs the privileged, and we, unfortunately, are the bargaining chips or whatever. But it’s billionaires paying millionaires, in terms of details, as far as issues to deconstruct and evaluate, it’s not high on the list of important fights. (If a player making a million a year supposedly deserves ten million, I’m not gonna burn down a Starbucks over that, so to speak.)
A lot of people here keep pointing out how unimportant it is. Which begs the question, why are you all here?
How are baseball players privileged? No MLB player was born with enough talent to play Major League Baseball. Everything they have now, the union fought for. Nothing was given to these dudes. Even walks aren’t free.
This isn’t about “paid training”. Minor leaguers aren’t training in the labor/education sense. What they are doing in spring training is work. The idea that because the games don’t count, or because the word “training” is in the phrase “Spring Training”, therefore these players don’t need to be paid is absurd. The nature of the occupation is play, exercise and, yes, training. That’s the job. Pay them.
i dont see it about paid training though.
they are minor leaguers. thats where they are training. are they not receiving training in the minor leagues?
they’re given an opportunity to play in spring training with mlb’ers. that’s it. do they have to accept the invitation? if they were worried about their labor going uncompensated.
if they were mlb’ers.. then i’d agree.. pay them
They should be paid minor leaguers salaries but they should be paid. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the issue.
Just shut down MLB for a year or 2, the country will barely even care or notice. Tired of it and culturally irrelevant
I understand where they are coming from – when training to be a HS math teacher, not only did I not get paid for student teaching, but for an entire semester I had to pay TUITION during my “training” (the classroom teacher was never there and I was essentially a full-time teacher)…to call spring training “training” or “instruction” is what they’re trying to get away with, and it makes MLB look bad yet again…
Student teaching is a racket. It’s essentially a full time job. But hopefully it helps you develop into a better teacher .
Does MLB HAVE a PR Dept? Cause they have needed fired since 1994. No paid training…that requires employees to relocate to either Florida or Arizona at their own expense?
MLB needs competition. We need a new league.
as i have posted somewhere else accountants should not be in a position to lead. they only see money and lose the sight on big picture. the once ruined general motors and now ruining baseball.
Lol…My wife is the COO of a regional accounting firm. They actually do a lot more and give some good advice…issue is it’s hardly ever heeded because people want to pay for sound advice like they wanna buy a casket. It’s NOT sound advice to create this kind of horrible PR
my wife was an accounting manager of a firm with more than 1.000 workers, lol. and she is leading this household very well.
I work with a lot of employers and they habitually ignore advice. Even ‘advice’ that is less advice and more “the IRS will audit you if you do this”.
People want to do what they want to do. The people in charge even more so.
I have a crazy suggestion but why not get rid of the minor leagues and make them all independent which would mean players that sign with that club could have their contract bought by a major league club and if the player does not make it past thirty days then the MLB team can not sell the contract back but after thirty days the Independent league could by it back at a lesser discount?
I mean something in that form could promote better pay for those in the minors because they can negotiate their contract with the independent league and it could make the independent league profitable while getting players ready…
A sharp group of people would form a 3rd league with that concept and compete short-term and long term for talent against MLB.
Most minor league teams cannot afford to cover the payroll and other operating costs, and would fold.
You’re talking about 100B global corporations here that are unwilling to invest in their product on the field, and the marketing of the game itself.
I believe the owners want to break the players. We might be looking at a longterm situation here.
Fine….how’s about MLB be required to pay minimum wage salaries for time on the clock? That would include time spent in transit to the job sites by bus during the summer. They don’t even pay the lower minors minimum wage salaries when time is figured.
Toast….just dumb.
the owners lobbied congress so that they don’t need to pay minimum wages.
The chintziness of the owners never ceases to amaze me.
Time for MLB to lose their antitrust exemption. It is also time for the owners to open their books.
Watch MLB try to break the minor leagues entirely and move to host their systems in house at their own facilities. They’d LOVE to probably have a setup like the NBA that essentially uses the NCAA as a minor league.
Where’s the union been all these years? Why haven’t the minor leagues been unionized?
1, there have been many attempts to include minor leaguers in the union.
2, most minor leaguers are too afraid of mlb overlords.
3, they make too little to even for living necessities ands dues seem too much for most.
Both sides are wrong, imo. The owners absolutely should pay for Spring Training. These players are still investments and are being required to give if their time. Every other industry pays for on the job training.
However, I can’t get behind the players complaining about requiring an offseason job. You’ve chosen a profession that is seasonal. Teachers, landscapers, certain construction jobs also need to get offseason jobs. You’re in an entry level position, but your future earning potential is high. It’s the risk that goes with the job. It goes along with the entitled attitude that’s on display everywhere in our current culture.
Minor league baseball requires 18 players to stage a game and 16 of them are there only to allow the two guys in the game who have a sniff at the bigs someone to play with. Other than that they have no value to major league teams. They are the package rings that hold your six pack together. You throw it away. Players don’t get paid for dreams. They get paid for return on investment. A garage band doesn’t get paid for prac. A portrait artist doesn’t get paid for the unsold art. Dancers and actors don’t get paid unless they are performing. These players forgot that they are owed nothing until they perform and make money for owners. Students living on college loans and sleeping in vans don’t get paid while they train. Why are players expected to be treated differently? They need to find other work if they don’t like the deal.
Milb players can’t move to another town if they want to. They are owned by the team that signed them. All of those other jobs you mentioned have the mobility to move somewhere else if they see a better opportunity.
They can ask for and receive a release to play in Japan, Mexico, Korea, Taiwan, Australia, independent leagues, Venezuela to name a few. Or they can realize they are wasting their time. It’s up to them to bet on themselves if they want to. No sympathy from me whatsoever. I save that for homeless American military vets.
It’s called budgeting. Teachers, people paid on a commission basis, etc. know they must budget. You can’t spend every dime the moment you get a paycheck, you have to budget, i.e. set some aside each paycheck for the months you will not receive a paycheck. My daughter, who is a teacher, accepts the fact that she must budget and/or get a summer job. It is the reality of her chosen profession. Same is, or at least should be, for minor league baseball players.
The CBA negotiations have absolutely nothing to do with minor league players, they are not a part of the MLBPA. If they are a good or promising prospect and are drafted, they get great bonuses to sign in the first place and escalating salaries as they move through the minors. This is true for gifted International signees as well. Those players need to budget with their signing bonuses also. I have no sympathy for players who don’t budget and squander their bonuses.
Then there are all the rest of the minor leaguers, who weren’t highly regarded prospects, but chose baseball as a career. They don’t get paid much as they follow their dream. Then again, the vast majority of these players won’t make it to the show, so they are probably worth exactly what little they are being paid. Unless you believe they should get paid 10x what they are worth, while they live out a dream. But I maintain they made a choice, just like my daughter made a choice and went into her career with her eyes wide open to economics and a dad urging her to budget.
Once your daughter has tenure, she will be paid over the course of the whole year. At least, that’s how it works in Alabama. And she probably makes a lot more than 10K-20K if she teaches in a public school.
Bhambrave. Sure, I wish my daughter had the earning power of a good professional ball player. Don’t we all wish for the best for our children?
But that isn’t the point here. My daughter and virtually every minor leaguer, Chose of their own free will to pursue their dream career. They knew going in that they were in for a number of very lean years, and they knew the odds of becoming a multimillionaire ball player were really stacked against them. No one forced them, and no one is forcing them to stick with it, it’s their choice. Unless someone is in complete denial, the exceedingly low salaries were part of their choice.
Living in Arizona, I’ve seen plenty of minor leaguers at work. For the most part, they are excited and completely happy because they are living out the pursuit of their childhood dreams. They aren’t making diddly wages, but their dreams of future riches keeps them going. I don’t feel sorry for them any more than I feel sorry for my daughter the teacher. She is happy and that makes me happy!
I’m happy for you and your daughter. I’m happy that she’s a free agent every year and can market her abilities to maximize her opportunities. I’m happy for the players, that they have a chance to chase their dreams. IMO, they should be paid if they attend spring training.
Ah, the “this group is underpaid so it’s OK for this other group to be underpaid, too” game. Fun.
Teachers should make more. I would HOPE you’d agree.
And FYI…in states with unions, they do.
Still underpaid, but not like the Dust Bowl or Confederate state teachers who make $26K a year BS.
This is ridiculous. People should get paid for their work at all times and under all circumstances. Full stop.
Geez. I’ve been in favor of the owners slightly (both sides are clowns), but this is a bad look
This is fascinating. I chose a career that makes it very difficult to get to the top qualification, one that is held by a few thousand. There were ten exams, each 3 or 4 hours long, requiring 300 to 400 hours of study, each with a 35-40% passing rate. I managed to make it through, all while working full time and advancing in position. I was paid for my work, paid for passing exams, provided with classes and time off for the exams, but expected to progress at an acceptable rate. I spent hours of my own time studying outside of work. But the job always paid well. They took care of me and I was expected to work hard.
My nephew is a professional baseball player. He received a bonus and the team pays for his education. They’ve seen him through two TJ surgeries and now he’s getting checked out for Thoracic surgery, possibly. The kid can’t catch a break. And yet, he works unbelievably hard at his craft. In his down time, he ran a marathon on his own, because it’s on his “list”. I know how hard that is, I’ve run 23 of them. He’s not a huge bonus baby or a high draft pick but he’s a super kid. He is considered a “sleeper” by the pundits. He works when he’s back home and goes to school, coaches, lives life.
He doesn’t seem to be struggling economically but he’s got a family that loves him and a community that welcomes him. When he’s in Arizona with his teammates he has lots of time to be friends with everyone. He gets it. My feeling is that the team needs to take care of their players. Paying them nothing to me sounds like penny pinching and disadvantages those who don’t have the resources. It’s already a challenge for these guys to get a sniff of success. Why not help them out a little bit?
I guess the argument would be, isn’t their annual salary considered payment for training as well as games? I don’t know, could see the argument both ways, but it would be nice to see them get something extra for spring training.
Isn’t this the risk you take as a minor league player? This is not the first profession that someone had to take a 2nd job, or live with roommates to get by, while you chase your dream. How much do you think owners should invest in a draft pick that has less than a 10% chance of ever making it to major leagues? The majority of minor leaguers never make it. With that said, I do understand the Spring Training argument. They should probably be paid something.
Every job I ever had in my 40-year career before I retired my employer paid me while I learned my job
Even when I work for a Single A baseball team in college back in the 1980s I was paid as an assistant to the owner. I can remember a half a dozen ball players being crammed into a two-bedroom apartment.
Weren’t you lucky. Unfortunately, it not the case everywhere. Maybe that had something to do with your profession. I have had training I was paid for, and training I was not. Both allowed me to do my job better, which likely got me better raises.
The MLBPA has $2 billion in their pension plan. Since cities are no longer willing to fund stadiums, every time a team needs a new building, like Tampa Bay, the MLBPA should reach into their pension plan and fund $200 million of the cost. This is only fair since the players are making bank playing for and practicing for free. Baseball players don’t realize how good they have it. There are free baseball fields everywhere built with taxpayer dollars In hockey amateur players would need to pay for ice time.
Let me hear those pro owner arguments. Please make the case for slavery to me.
Slavery is enforced. Minor Leaguers have choice.
Well that was difficult.
You think minor leaguers can turn down a spring training invite and that won’t affect them?
Of course it will affect them. That’s the choice. Accept it or do something else.
Calling it “slavery” is immature, hysterical BS.
And owners can sell their team for a huge profit. What does that have to do with any of this? You don’t have to like me calling it slavery, but I bet you’d call it slavery if it happened to you.
Ha ha. Ok. Just quietly though, I think I’d just change career paths. You see, in that situation, what happens to me, is dependant on me.
It’s not an accurate description. “Unfair” Sure. “Harsh” Yep. “Slavery” Nowhere near it.
You got to keep it real.
Yeah, everyone is great at dealing with adversary other people face. I’m sure you’re keeping it 100%, though. You’re different.
Maybe Nick Kuzia should either A) Pitch better, B) Pick up a whistle and teach P.E., or C) Ask one of his fellow union member brothers, like Wil Myers/Eric Hosmer, both guaranteed $20 million this year, to take care of the check.
Gotta say…I didn’t have people pining for the good old days when players had to work in the offseason because they were paid so poorly on my bingo card.
“Back in my day, we were disposable gristle for the robber barons and we LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT!!!”
“People who were once paid poorly should ALWAYS be paid poorly.”
Rhetorical question, I don’t expect the introspection needed for a good answer to it in a public forum, but…have you ever wondered why you would defend the people who try to keep the entire pie while being angry at someone else picking up crumbs for picking up what you deem to be too many crumbs?”
Well you always have the choice working at Wal-Mart, or not being alive. Only a greedy person would expect better options than that.
Or someone with skills that the market values. It’s def one of those two things.
@forwhomjoshbell
No one is wishing anything on anyone. I am one of many that don’t understand why people are upset with potential MLB players having to go thru the same things many other professions require from their candidates. I have dealt with similar circumstances, but my profession will never provide the opportunity to earn what a MLB player earns.
Perhaps instead of cheering for them to also work for free, your (and our) concern should be with improving your industry as well?
People should get paid for their work, period.
“Im unhappy so other people should be unhappy, too” -stymeedone
This entire thread speaks to the uniqueness of MLB. If one really digs in to each side’s argument, it essentially is how one perceives / interprets the “job” of an MiLB player.
For instance, is the player’s position similar to one in which training is part of the requirement for the job, but not an aspect of the performance (not paid ST -); or is he in a job in which the training is actually part of the “performance” of the duty to the job itself and thus inherently deemed a paid portion (like a doctor’s residency ).
It’s really how one perceived the job function and who is responsible for that function (player v employer).
It’ll be a very interesting fight, but as I’ve said before I think MLB ownership risks making the same mistake that occurred in WWII and dividing its forces by fighting on two fronts, professionally & publicly.
Both sides fought on two fronts during WWII.
In other news, pigs are not being paid while they learn how to fly, which will be necessary for the season to actually start on time.
I got paid for my training. They called it residency.
Wow, set up a gofundme for guys making 600k a year minimum for 6 months of work,
Maybe a carwash or a bake sale?
So, I’ve read through many well-thought-out comments and very committed opinions, which comment authors are certainly entitled to, and I think we can come away with saying this: {Majority} of people think this reflects poorly on MLB, whether they have to legally pay this or not.
Moreover, I do want to pose a question for those who spend the owners’ money (keep in mind I’m not taking a side, rather considering another point) and say “Pay the men!”, as it’s the “right” thing to do. What if they simply said, well we will increase you taxes by… 10 cents per paycheck to help pay for the raise? I’m pretty certain it’s a resounding “NO” out of principle, right? Not because it’s a lot; not because it’s not doable. Not because we are unforgiving monsters, but because it’s our money and they’re not entitled to it. It’s because they chose their job, and we aren’t paying even 10 cents to them unless it’s voluntary attendance at the games. I think the owners have an analogous (general) position in that it’s their claim to the money, whether it’s nice to do or not, and people in glass houses…
As you will read above prior comments, this isn’t a statement of condemnation on my part, just a thought.
Also a great idea Owners. Especially a great argument when..you..are..trying..to..get..a..deal..done!!!!!! I would laugh if it wasn’t so sad and pathetic. But, at least Rob Manfred has gotten 4 deals done in the past on or before the deadline. Color me unimpressed right now. How about both teams stay in negotiations until they get a deal done? No more of this part time work. 2 to 3 hour long sessions? You kidding me? Get to work you pansies!!!! Do your frickin job!!!!!
Fascinated by the number of commenters who think even a $100 a week is far to much to compensate these young men. To quote Scrooge, “Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?”
Here’s a thought: teams DRAFT players and then OWN them for an undetermined amount of time. These players should then be PAID for all of the activity they participate in while in the employ of that team. It’s really that simple.
If you don’t want to pay them, then get rid of the draft and let them voluntarily work towards becoming major league players. Kind of like the model for musicians, actors, artists and the like who exist merely to entertain us.
Then once they’re major leaguers, everyone can compete for their services and may the richest team win year after year. Won’t that be fun?
Whiny millenial/gen Z babies. No, you can’t be promoted after one month. No, you can’t make millions with no experience. Suck it up and be quiet. You don’t like it quit and go play video games.
Monsters.
Let’s stick to the discussion. Pay the kids. They are sticking to MiLB’s rules otherwise. They deserve a salary for their job and their training. It’s a hard life living on PB and jelly, sleeping 4-6 to a room or two. No pocket money. Pay their housing and pay decent wages. The owners have the funds. They need to stop making themselves look like selfish unprofessionals. Why should the minor leaguers continue to be punished for loving this game?! It is an embarrassing and sad situation. #dotherightthing
MLB owners would be wise economically to NOT allow the minor leagues to proceed without competition from MLB this season. I mean…what if fans flocked in greater numbers to minor league parks and figured out the product REALLY is better…more cost efficient..more enjoyable…less stressful. That’s the real thing….that MLB (outside of player skills) isn’t even the best place to consume baseball