Right-hander Kumar Rocker, whom the Mets selected with the No. 10 overall pick last summer but ultimately did not sign, is now mulling the idea of pitching with an independent team before re-entering the 2022 draft, Vanderbilt coach Tim Corbin tells Aria Gerson of The Tennessean.
Prior to the 2021 college season, Rocker and teammate Jack Leiter were both among the many names rumored to be in consideration for the No. 1 overall selection in the draft. He instead “fell” to the tenth overall selection — Louisville catcher Henry Davis went first overall to the Pirates; Leiter went second to the Rangers — and within hours of the draft was expected finalize an over-slot agreement with the Mets. Rocker’s No. 10 slot came with a value of more than $4.7MM, but the Mets were said to be preparing to sign the righty for a $6MM bonus that was more commensurate with his potential top-of-the-draft status.
However, as the signing deadline approached weeks later, the reports emerged that the Mets had elbow concerns following Rocker’s physical. A contract was never finalized, and Rocker went unsigned. Then-general manager Zack Scott stated after the fact that failing to reach a deal was “clearly not the outcome we had hoped for,” adding that the team “wish[ed] Kumar nothing but success moving forward.” Rocker’s advisor, Scott Boras, issued his own statement at the time, wherein he declared that “independent medical review by multiple prominent baseball orthopedic surgeons” had proven Rocker to be healthy. The Mets received the No. 11 pick in the 2022 draft as compensation for not signing Rocker.
Whatever triggered the Mets’ concern, it hasn’t resulted in any major physical setbacks for Rocker since the draft. There’s no indication that surgery was ever required, and Corbin tells Gerson that Rocker, who did not return to pitch for the Commodores in his senior season, “looks as good as he’s ever looked” and appears to be in good health.
Rocker’s path to reentering the draft would be uncommon but not unheard of. Back in 2005, after right-hander Luke Hochevar controversially chose not sign with the Dodgers following his No. 40 selection, he went on to pitch for the Fort Worth Cats of the independent American Association in the spring of 2006. The Royals selected Hochevar with the No. 1 overall pick in 2006.
A similar scenario unfolded with right-hander Aaron Crow, who did not sign with the Nationals after being selected ninth overall in 2008. Crow signed with the Fort Worth Cats and was selected 12th overall by Kansas City in 2009. Back in 1997, outfielder J.D. Drew followed the indie ball path after choosing not to sign with the Phillies. More recently, righty Carter Stewart signed a six-year contract worth more than $7MM with the SoftBank Hawks in Japan after failing to come to an agreement with the Braves, who’d selected him at No. 8 overall in 2018. As with Rocker, medical concerns following the player’s physical derailed talks between Atlanta and Stewart.
It’s anyone’s guess how the entire gambit will work out for Rocker — if he even pitches on the independent circuit at all this season. That will largely depend on his performance and even more so on his health. So long as Rocker’s stuff looks similar to his Vandy days, he should still be viewed as a first-round talent. The 6’5″, 245-pound righty was dominant with the Commodores in 2021, after all, pitching to a 2.73 ERA with 179 strikeouts and 39 walks through 122 innings (36.5% strikeout rate, 7.9% walk rate). Scouting reports on Rocker credit him with a plus fastball that can reach the upper-90s, a plus-plus slider (70 on the 20-80 scale) and an average or better changeup.
Domingo111
It is pretty interesting that almost all of the pitchers who did this and didn’t sign intially were total busts:
Aiken, appel and crow all busted and hochevar at least made the majors but was a disappointment too.
Maybe the mets judged it correctly and rocker is the next guy busting like aiken and appel.
stevecohenMVP
Or in typical Mets fashion, becomes a stud for a team in the NL east. Good grief
RunDMC
This is setting up quite nice for ATL to grab him with an annual overslot late pick and get him familiar surroundings on home turf. He could help depth issues at the lower levels to give him time and not rush him to the League, while motivation (not that he needs any) facing NYM almost 20x/season.
braves fan 138
Come to Butthead
MrMet33
How is he going to face the Mets 20x per season? Is he throwing for all four other NL East teams at the same time?
VonPurpleHayes
@stevecohenMVP Typical Mets fashion? I can only recall Wheeler, who most experts expected to be a stud.
Please, Hammer. Don't hurt 'em.
So is this article saying Rocker might sit out the draft another year? I find that unlikely. He’s still probably going to be a first round pick. If he sits out and for some reason doesn’t perform well in the indie leagues next season there is a huge risk of tanking his draft stock. My guess is this is a Boras plan to give Rocker more leverage when he’s drafted. They are putting this out there so teams feel more pressured to pay Rocker what he wants otherwise he won’t sign. I’d bet dollars to donuts Rocker does not want to go to the Indie leagues. This is his way of saying no matter where you take him in the draft he’s going to ask for a top slot signing bonus. Boras knows exactly what he’s doing and I doubt he wants to risk a pitching injury before this guy’s career gets started.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
I didn’t get that he was talking about sitting out another draft, just playing Indie ball until the 2022 draft in June.
JoeBrady
I’d bet dollars to donuts Rocker does not want to go to the Indie leagues.
==============================
I agree, which is why this makes no sense to me. He could’ve gone back to Vanderbilt to pitch, if he felt his arm was okay. If the reason he did not return to Vanderbilt is because his arm IS sore, then pitching in Indie ball is a non-starter.
In fact, the entire exercise seems weird to me. If you do not take the scans before the draft, you’re drawing a bull’s eye on your arm, and you lose all leverage, since now the team can simply re-draft.
And he is still in the same position. Without the MRIs, anyone drafting him will suspect damage, and do their own scans. I think the best he can hope for is 2-3 weeks in indie ball, and hope his arm doesn’t fall off, and he gets drafted high. But even then, I would trust the MRIs more than 2-3 weeks of indie ball.
flamingbagofpoop
I think that it’s interesting that he didn’t really give a reason that he didn’t go back.
Old York
@dominikk85
You seem to have a short memory if that is the case.
Scherzer was originally picked by the Diamondbacks but they couldn’t come to an agreement so he began his professional career playing for the Fort Worth Cats of the independent American Association. He appeared in 3 games for the team and then he signed a four-year, $4.3 million contract with the Diamondbacks.
In my opinion, Scherzer is slightly above a bust candidate, wouldn’t you agree?
Putmeincoach12
Old York: actually Scherzer was originally picked by his hometown team the St Louis Cardinals but he chose to attend the University of Missouri.
iverbure
Scott Boras should be ashamed of himself for gambling with the kids future like this.
Vizionaire
boras is an advisor. the decision was kumar’s
smuzqwpdmx
Boras got the Mets to agree in principle to a great deal for his client. Then the physical happened and the Mets didn’t like it. How could Boras possibly do anything about his client failing the physical? Well, what he could do is exactly what he has done: attempt to argue that his client is healthy.
JoeBrady
Technically, he didn’t even do that. He said Rocker was healthy, but didn’t say his arm was healthy. And he said there was no significant change since his 2018 MRIs.
But ‘significant’ is not the same as maybe a moderate decline in his elbow, and it doesn’t mean that his 2018 MRIs were healthy.
In any case, I don’t see this working out for Rocker. The Mets might be close to $300M this year, if they want to compete. It’s almost inconceivable that they would balk over a couple of million $$$, unless they had real concerns.
flamingbagofpoop
Any time I see Boras using the subjective wiggle words like, “substantial”, I just assume the opposite of what he’s purporting to be closer to the truth.
123redsox
…Crow was an all star
twentyfivemanroster
Crow? You mean Hochevar?
twentyfivemanroster
I wouldn’t call Crow a bust necessarily. He pitched well, but, injuries.
I would put Hochevar there because he was a 1-1 pick and his best season came at the end of his career in the bullpen.
BeforeMcCourt
I mean, he went from #40 to 1-1 and had a decent relatively lengthy career
For a #40 pick, he made the correct choice with hindsight
bjupton100
I think you’re right. People are acting like a lot of these guys have anything more than a cup of coffee at the mlb level. The draft for those lucky enough to be drafted high is their best chance of getting paid and if they can not sign at 40 to get 1-1 money or close to it they should.
Juan Uribe Profundo
Almost all the pitchers who attempt to reach the MLB by ANY means are total busts.
flamingbagofpoop
Most prospects bust, I’d say without looking into numbers, that a higher percentage of pitchers bust (injury factor alone putting them over position players), so I’m not sure if this is really more telling of guys that did this or just pitching prospects in general
***I see Juan Uribe beat me to it***
ctyank7
Looks like Stewart is falling into the bust, or at best, major disappointment category. Check out his numbers from Japan.
baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=ste…
Cincyfan85
So it sounds like he should just pitch in the independent league and then the Royals will draft him in 2022. Good luck.
rond-2
Sounds like a good idea to me, Kumar builds up his stock (assuming he is injury free) and the Indy team that signs him makes a gate & concession killing!
Deleted Userr
Why didn’t Rocker file a grievance against the Mets like Stewart did with the Braves?
KC42
The grievance Stewart filed was because he claimed the Braves did not offer the required 40% under-slot value offer teams have to make in order to gain a compensation pick. So if a draft pick has a 5 million slot value, a team has to offer 2 million for it to be eligible to gain a compensation pick. Stewart claimed the Braves offered lower than 40% and tried to coup a compensation pick, putting them at the violation and allowing Stewart to become a free agent (it didn’t work on his part).
Rocker and the Mets verbally agreed to a 6 million dollar, when the Mets found something with the MRI, they lowered their offer to (I’m guessing) the minimum 40%, Rocker obviously declined and thus the Mets gain the compensation pick and Rocker is screwed to find a place to play for a year while entering the daft this coming year where he will be picked somewhere in the high teens-low 20’s barring TJ surgery, slots that have a value similar to the one the Met offered him.
sviscusi
You’re in the ballpark but I believe the difference is pre-draft medicals being done in one case but not the other. Since Rocker didn’t submit to medical exams prior to the draft he wasn’t subject to the 40% minimum requirement and thus not eligible to file a grievance if it wasn’t offered.
When it was a game.
The thing about this…he didn’t submit pre draft medicals. Why? If I am 21 and expected to go high in the draft I want to maximize my pay. So if you have nothing to hide why not just release them? If there is nothing a team would be worried about why the secret.
Deleted Userr
@Lee Mazzilli Because he DID have something to hide.
bjupton100
Because anyone who throws a ball over hand a lot has something that will show up. Tanka played for ten years with a partially torn ACL that the team always seemed to bring up at negotiations but didn’t seem to mind using him as a starter.
Deleted Userr
But the Braves DID offer Stewart 40% of slot and Stewart knew it all along. With that in mind, Rocker has just as good a case for a grievance as Stewart did, if not even BETTER!
Sid Bream Speed Demon
I would guess that he just decided it would be better to sit out than join the Mets clown show.
Deleted Userr
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. In fact, filing a grievance in this situation necessarily implies you aren’t joining the Mets clown show.
deweybelongsinthehall
Too bad he didn’t sign. If he had, would he have taken the 7 train to Citi Field? Imagina after all these years a Rocker taking a train in Queens.
JoeBrady
Rocker has just as good a case for a grievance
===================================
What would the grievance be based on? That you have to sign a player, even if they are injured?
Deleted Userr
@JoeBrady Same thing Stewart’s grievance was based on.
JoeBrady
Okay, but Stewart lost. Copying Stewart’s strategy doesn’t seem to be the way to go.
Deleted Userr
@JoeBrady Well Boras knew he was going to lose the Stewart grievance before he even filed it so clearly he’s not above that.
Adenzeno
Only if he dyed his hair…
jessaumodesto
Is he an Indian?
Deleted Userr
Mom is
RunDMC
His maternal grandparents immigrated from India – that’s as close as it comes.
LordD99
Some say he’s a Guardian.
Yankee Clipper
I think he’s related to John.
jimthegoat
Harold and Kumar escape from Flushing Bay
16
haha, actually laughed out loud, well done.
mister guy
could a team theoretically sign him to a minor league deal or does he actually need to re enter via the draft? I would think i it is possible that there is no reason a team wouldn’t but a few mm into a signing bonus to get him and assign him to high A rather than him going via independent ball and then entering as a FA
KC42
Here’s something I found on the internet, hope it helps.
“Unless there has been a rule change that I missed (always possible), once a player is drafted he belongs to the team that drafted him until the next draft. He can’t sign with any other MLB team or MLB-affiliated minor league team during that period. Assuming he doesn’t sign with the team during that period then he can be drafted again. There are potential options.
If the player has eligibility then he can play in college. This typically applies to high school seniors and college juniors. If he has already used up his college eligibility or has somehow become ‘professional’ (such as taking money from an agent), then this is not an option. Also, once a player goes to (4 year) college to play baseball then he is ineligible to be drafted for 3 years. Note that junior-college players can be drafted in any year.
Alternatively, he can try to play in what are called ‘independent’ leagues. These leagues consist of teams which have no affiliation with MLB and are relatively low-level (I’ve read Class A to Class AA level competition). It’s not an optimum path, but it IS professional baseball and you will be seen by at least a few scouts. The most famous of these if probably J. D. Drew.”
mister guy
so does that mean as long as he is in for the duration of a contract (I am assuming like 1 year) that he is declared a FA to sign with any team – or could even sign a future contract while under the ind. league contract?
JoeBrady
it hasn’t resulted in any major physical setbacks for Rocker since the draft
=========================================
I would suggest that him not pitching since the draft constitutes a setback. I assume that he could’ve gone back to Vanderbilt for another year? Or he could take the pre-draft MRI that he refused last time.
At this point, I think the burden is on Rocker to prove himself.
BeforeMcCourt
No reason to subject himself to being the ace of a school that historically rides their ace’s like race horses when he’s already eligible for the next draft
flamingbagofpoop
Pitching well for them could potentially raise or level his draft stock, that’s a reason.
angt222
If he’s healthy, he’ll get drafted in the 1st round again.
JoeBrady
Probably, but how do you prove you’re health? He could take and share MRIs of a healthy arm, but that simply raises the question of why he didn’t do that last year. Or he could pitch in organized sports, but that simply raises the question of why he didn’t pitch for Vanderbilt this year.
BeforeMcCourt
Now, the only people telling Rocker when and where to pitch are concerned with his future earnings and not some other agenda
He’d have to transfer to another school and it would mess with his degree from Vandy. It’s not hard to put it together really
flamingbagofpoop
What degree does he have from Vandy? Does any potential issue with that outweigh the benefit he’d get in signing bonus if he had a good year with Vandy vs. whatever he ends up doing? There is definitely enough of a potential positive to going back to Vandy to question why he’s not doing it.
Hello, Newman
When, if ever, can unsigned draftees enter into free agency? I believe un-drafted players can.
DarkSide830
he’d be a great get for the High Point indy outfit if only because of his last name.
LordD99
The rules need to be changed here. If a tentative agreement is reached but the team backs out due to medicals and lowers their offer, the player should become an unrestricted free agent, not subject to the bonus pools. The team still gets their pick next year, but the player isn’t trapped in limbo for a year. This is another example of the MLBPA not fighting for the rights of their future members.
When it was a game.
But isn’t that deal based on a physical. If healthy why not release pre draft medicals.
JoeBrady
I was going to say the same thing. No player will ever take a pre-draft physical. If I were the #1/1, I’d refuse to take any physical, pre or post. The worst that happens is that team that drafts you doesn’t sign you. 15 minutes after that happens, I would be a FA with brand new MRIs,
Imagine if consensus 1/1’s like Strasburg and Harper did that? They’d have been signing $50M contracts instead of draft-level contracts.
Deleted Userr
@JoeBrady Not how it works. You have to submit to it to have even a shot at being declared a FA. And even that requires the signing team to offer < 40% of slot.
bjupton100
They both got big money. As big or bigger than 1-1’s now.
dpsmith22
@lee of course it is subject to a physical. this is just LordD trying to say MLB teams are too rich and the players deserve more. An idiotic notion and certainly one I don’t agree with. I guess when he opens a box to find his items broken, he keeps them…
LordD99
Yes. That’s why he slipped all the way to the Mets. The Mets took a shot, and it’s fine they decided to pass. My point is Rocker shouldn’t have to wait. Let him now negotiate with all teams. Teams can then decide what they want to pay.
Boras is always playing one or two steps ahead, looking for or trying to create points of weakness that he can eventually exploit. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this type of situation is addressed in the CBA being negotiated.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
This situation is infrequent and honestly so far down the list of things that either side gives a damn about that I guarantee they won’t waste 30 seconds even talking about it with this new CBA. You are basically the only person that seems to be up in arms about it.
Canosucks
In my mind the Mets handled things badly by allocating to much money early on in the draft to him but acted smartly to back out without a pre-draft physical.
Something was going on with this guy; his velocity numbers dropped a ton and even after resting it did not add up to pure fatigue in my mind. Maybe he will turn out ok but I will never fault the Mets for backing out over what I was reading at the time.
AlienBob
So, you endorse agents faking injuries and falsifying medical reports to get their kid to free agency a decade earlier. That would undermine the purpose of the draft.
flamingbagofpoop
What is to stop an agent from just lying about the existence or value of the, “tentative agreement”?
GeoEng88
Maybe he just doesn’t want to pitch for the Mets lol
rct
The Mets are the ones who drastically reduced their offer, but keep throwing out that lazy Mets hate.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Maybe he tried to damage his own arm to get out of being a Met? Like if you wake up with an unattractive girl and would want to chew your arm off to get away, what’s that called, coyote ugly or something?
Canosucks
Gee it didn’t seem like Max Scherzer found the Mets an “unattractive girl”?
I feel sorry for people who have no other meaning in life but to hate and knock others.
stymeedone
For $40MM, the Mets look damn good in that paper bag.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Yeah, the LOL’s only had to pay Max $40 million per season for multiple seasons. They are exactly an ugly girl.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Says a guy with “Canosucks” as his user name. Lol. Too funny, can’t make this stuff up.
stevecohenMVP
Lol you have Sid Bream in your username. Shutta yo mouth
Canosucks
My screen name is “Canosucks” is posted on a Mets thread about a Mets player who violated league drug policies twice; after denying it the first time and promising he would not do it again.
That is just criticism.
I don’t try to find meaning in a meaningless life by going on a Teams thread that you hate in general just to annoy other people.
You can’t make this stuff up LOL because you have nothing else in your life worth talking about! Not funny but Sad dude!
Sid Bream Speed Demon
StevecohenMVP, shouldn’t you be out trolling nursing homes for more players to sign?
Sid Bream Speed Demon
But you said that you feel bad for people who have nothing else in life but to hate and knock others, while having a screen name that knocks someone and now saying stupid things about a stranger online that you have never met. Or should I say Met? Either way, it’s ironic, which is probably a word that you don’t understand, like so many other words. Enjoy 4th place.
Canosucks
I guess you can’t read or you just can’t get off of your pointless point?
My screen-name is and was the result of 10 seconds of my life. I do not have to think about it as it is posted automatically where you waste valuable time in your pointless life by trying to get a negative reaction out of strangers with your incessant trolling on Mets topics.
Like saying this you just can’t get off it.
“Enjoy 4th place.”
I don’t have to meet you; your words speak for themselves and are your choice not mine.
No I will enjoy life not 4th place…. something you should get and try.
bravesfan
I find it more odd he didn’t return to Vandy. If in the event he truly does have a potential injury concern, or even if he didn’t and got injured, you would want Vandy to be on the hook of all medical bills… something an Indy league prob doesn’t cover, right??
DarkSide830
given most indy leagues are partnered with the MLB, this may not be as true anymore
bravesfan
Good point. So the next question becomes the lvl of competition. I’ve always thought college, in theory, should be better. Those good enough to go pro, go pro, but a lot on the fringe either go Indy ball or simply hang it up. Case in point, the quality of competition just naturally get a little worse
WrongM
I’m wondering about this too. Did Rocker lose NCAA eligibility by hiring Boras as an agent rather than an “advisor”? One of the comments above mentions that a player can become ineligible by -taking- money from an agent, but I’m not sure why Rocker would have done that, unless Boras gave him a bonus to join Boras’ agency.
Vizionaire
the article clearly states that boras was his advisor not agent. and as rich as his family is known to be i doubt he had taken money from boras. besides, his college coach said rocker was welcome to come back but the player declined the offer.
WrongM
Yes, I saw what the article stated. In raising a question not covered or addressed by the article (why doesn’t Rocker go back to Vandy) I speculated a feasible reason, which doesn’t mean that I think that’s what happened.
joemoes
This money doesn’t count against the cap ? Why not just sign him it’s a drop in the bucket compared to anything else seems like low risk high reward ?
flamingbagofpoop
If he’s injured, it’s not a low risk and depending on the potential injury, possibly not as high of a reward. You get one slot lowers’ money to add to your pool in this years’ draft.
JoeBrady
I agree. It al depends on which pick you use, but unless he had real clean MRIs, I wouldn’t be drafting him in the top-20.
Vizionaire
the angels should draft him. he will have a tjs in the minors, if neccessary, and come up when ready. most angels pitchers go through the surgery anyway.
M.C.Homer
Beat me to it Viz. Come to the experts Kumar…
Mlbfan78
Let him sign with the newest Atlantic league Indy team the Staten Island Ferry Hawks, so the Mets and their fans can watch him pitch until he is drafted in their backyard.
phenomenalajs
Isn’t Edgardo Alfonzo their new manager?
AlienBob
Let him blow out his are in the independent league. Just the threat that he might not sign should scare several teams away and hurt his draft stock.
Ron Tingley
He will sue his agent 7 years from now. As the first comment noted, these dudes always bust. Should take the money and run
When it was a game.
Matt Harrington would agree.
Ron Tingley
I was trying to remember the name. He is lucky to have any money from baseball since he never really played. Obviously throwing a baseball isn’t a natural progression of the human body. Luck of the genetic pool.
IjustloveBaseball
I’m a bit curious as to what “elbow concerns” were in this case. Several players have been drafted relatively high while in the midst of TJ Surgery recovery, and/or with known elbow/forearm issues.
I wonder if Rocker’s is more of a degenerative issue..
PutPeteinthehall
Anything out of Scott Bor-ass mouth about a players health should not be trusted. I think he’s bad for the game in many ways.
hiflew
Matt Harrington 2.0. Should have signed.
JoeBrady
It could be. He just turned 22, so he is not quite a kid. Harrington was offerd $4M, turned it down, and then got offered $1.2M, which he turned down again. But Harrington was also only 18.
If Rocker drops in the draft, does he sit out another year? How does he prove that he is healthy?If His best route might be Japan.
NWMarinerHawk
Would be a huge, unnecessary gamble imo
He’s already got red flags, say he goes and hurts his arm in some independent league. Then he’s done!!! Toast. For at least the foreseeable future.
Protect your arm, brotha
Ham Fighter
His parents really dropped the ball not naming him Punk
Rsox
Could have been worse, they could have named him John…
User 3663041837
John is a perfectly acceptable name.
NWMarinerHawk
John, how do I join your fan club?
-nobody ever
When it was a game.
I was wondering what he is up to now. Hit Google and found nothing recent. Just he found the lord a few years back.
Bill M
Can’t be true. Everyone knows the Lord rides the 7 train
Rsox
Did he ever make it to White Castle?…
flamingbagofpoop
Independent medical experts don’t see a problem…Ok, but the Mets’ medical staff does (jokes about the Mets’ medical staff aside), it’s not unrealistic that medical professionals can have differing opinions. If this is just Boras trying to cover for his client and make some team feel better about potentially drafting him, then ok, but if that’s supposed to mean anything other than that, not buying it.
Marcus Graham
Rocker will end up with Miami and have a rookie season of 21-2 1.89 era 164.2 IP 246 K. He will go 4-0 against the Mets and 24-3 for his career
ctyank7
Looks like Stewart is falling into the bust, or at best, major disappointment category. Check out his numbers from Japan.
baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=ste…
If the medicals on a 1st rounder don’t look right, any organization would have a right to pass or withdraw an offer. That’s what due diligence is.
Perhaps, the long-range solution is allowing teams to bring in potential 1st round selections to be seen by their own doctors.
Krujo
Who wants to bet the Mets draft him with the #11 pick. LoL
DakotaDude1963
The Mets should have signed him. If he needed TJ surgery, there is a good chance he would have returned as good as before. It would have cost the Mets $6M to find out if he becomes a $200M talent. He has an average chance of doing that. In 2022, I’d take him early if there isn’t a player I really believe in. Go KC!!! This year, we’re gonna do it!