There’s no denying that Didi Gregorius had a rough campaign in 2021, as he struggled on both sides of the ball. Offensively, he hit .209/.270/.370, resulting in a wRC+ of just 68, the lowest such mark of his career, outside of an eight-game cup of coffee in his 2012 debut. On the defensive side of things, all the advanced metrics agreed that he wasn’t at his best, as his DRS was -10, his UZR was -2.6 and his OAA was -17.
Those struggles were significant enough that he may not have a firm grip on the Phillies’ shortstop job in 2022. In a year-end press conference, president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski had this to say on the matter: “It very well could be him. But he knows, we’ve had a discussion with him that he needs to be better. And we’re in a position where we also are going to be open-minded to what’s going to take place at shortstop next year. It could be internal, could be him if he comes back. …. Maybe it is him. He’ll come in (next season) in shape, but he’s not guaranteed — and he’s been told — that he’s for sure the shortstop. It doesn’t mean he can’t play other positions for us too, and maybe we’ll have a DH that’ll be a part of our club too.”
If the club no longer views Gregorius as their answer at shortstop, that raises multiple possibilities going forward, as Dombrowski laid out. As for the “internal” option he mentioned, the most likely candidate there is Bryson Stott, who spent the bulk of last year cruising through Double-A pitching. In 80 games there, he hit .301/.368/.481, for a wRC+ of 130. After getting promoted to Triple-A, he got into 10 games there and hit .303/.439/.394. In 26 games at the Arizona Fall League, he put up a line of .318/.445/.489.
It certainly seems feasible that Stott could join the big league club in 2022 and bump Sir Didi off his throne and to another position. With Jean Segura at second base, Gregorius could potentially help out at third. Alec Bohm also struggled in 2021, but should be given a chance to rebound based on his youth, prospect pedigree and excellent rookie season in 2020. If the NL adds the DH, as Dombrowski alluded to, that could lead to Gregorius being used in utility role, playing various infield positions as other players are rotated through the DH slot, in addition to seeing some time at DH himself.
But Dombrowski also said that Gregorius could be the shortstop “if he comes back,” seemingly implying that there’s a chance Gregorius is wearing a different jersey in 2022. Despite a legendary crop of superstar free agent shortstops, there are a handful of teams that have stayed out of the sweepstakes thus far and could potentially be interested in Gregorius. He has just one year and $15.25MM remaining on his contract and is about to turn 32, meaning a return to his previous form is certainly not out of the question.
Coming into the offseason, the Yankees were widely expected to be in the hunt for a big-ticket shortstop acquisition after moving Gleyber Torres over to second base. However, they have been rumored to be eschewing a large expenditure in that area, reportedly believing that prospects Anthony Volpe and Oswald Peraza can provide them with an internal solution. But Volpe is yet to play above High-A and Peraza has only eight games of Triple-A experience. Bringing Gregorius back to the Bronx would be a fun story and also make some sense, as he could diversify a righty-heavy lineup with his lefty bat while holding down shortstop until one of the kids takes his spot.
The Astros have taken a similar approach to the Yankees, seemingly content to wait for prospect Jeremy Pena and uninterested in splurging on an expensive free agent shortstop to replace Carlos Correa. But Pena only played 30 Triple-A games in 2021 and just 37 games in total. It would probably be unwise to expect him to simply jump up to the majors and take over as the full-time shortstop without a hitch. Having someone like Gregorius on hand would be a better fallback option than Aledmys Diaz, who hasn’t played more than nine games at shortstop in a season since 2018.
The Rockies don’t yet have a replacement for Trevor Story, who seems unlikely to return in free agency. There are internal candidates such as Ryan McMahon and Brendan Rodgers, but they are capable of playing elsewhere on the diamond, meaning it would be quite easy to fit Gregorius into the equation. Perhaps playing his home games at Coors Field could help him get his groove back at the plate.
The Angels have improved their pitching staff this offseason but still have question marks on the infield, with Tyler Wade and David Fletcher currently pencilled into the middle of the diamond. With the club clearly in win-now mode as they try to take advantage of their best remaining years of the Trout-Ohtani combo, they could grab Gregorius and bump Wade into a utility role.
If the Phils can find a taker for Gregorius, it could clear the deck for Stott or perhaps an acquisition in free agency. Carlos Correa and Trevor Story remain unsigned and will need to find new teams once the lockout is complete. As a big-market team with an uncertain shortstop picture, the Phillies stand out as one of the teams that could theoretically be a fit for them. The club’s Opening Day payroll is currently projected to be $181MM, in the estimation of Jason Martinez of Roster Resource. That’s about $10MM shy of last year’s number, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. It’s possible the club decides to push the budget a bit farther this year, but finding a taker for some or all of the $15.25MM owed to Gregorius would give them more wiggle room to address shortstop along with other areas of weakness, such as center field, left field and the bullpen.
Yankees trade for Didi, and just realize that letting him walk was a mistake
I agree Didi to the Yankees makes sense. He was good in New York and would be a nice 1 year bridge to Volpe/Peraza. Assuming one of the prospects doesn’t get traded for help now hitter. I’d imagine Didi would come mostly as a salary dump and maybe low level prospect attached.
That was a long time ago. I know Yankee fans are nostalgic, but Didi isn’t that player.
I’m not a Yankees fan. Just a MLB fan of over 30 years. I imagine the Yankees could do worse than Didi at SS. Andrelton Simmons would probably be smartest decision at SS if he’d do a 1 year contract but we all know that Trevor Story will probably be one of the Yankees splash free agent signings. If the lockout ever ends…
I actually think Didi is a downgrade from what the Yankees currently have as hard as that is to believe. Look at those 2021 numbers. Atrocious on both sides of the field. I love Didi, but yuck.
Yeah, @Hayes.
Didi plays with such joi de vivre he’s hard not to like. Had some Big Moments in the postseason for us too. Played through a torn UCL in the LDS. He will be on my forever-cool-with-me list, serious.
But you are correct.
He is just not that player anymore. He was one of the few shortstops who was worse defensively than Gleyber. Which is saying something.
The short porch was certainly his friend, so his offense would probably tick up some. But an infield of Voit, Gleyber, Didi, & Urshela would be an outright disaster.
@Hayes what about McCutchen? Is he OK in CF? Would they consider bringing him back? I saw another post on here that suggested Lorenzo Cain could be in their sights but I’ve heard a lot more about Kiermaier
-0.8 WAR, -0.6 dWAR, 71 OPS+. Could they do worse? That’s pretty awful.
Cutch played LF for the Phillies, as his CF days are over. He was subpar definitely even in LF, but his bat is serviceable, and he had some nice hotstreaks. I think the Phillies need to better defensively than Cutch, but some team should take a chance on him. His bat and experience still have some value.
He’s an interesting trade piece for the cardinals… what about a Paul Dejong for didi trade straight up? Kinda makes sense for both sides since the cards are looking for a LH hitter and a potential upgrade at SS.
Trevor Story would be a huge failure as a premium priced Yankee signing.
The Yankees don’t presently have anyone at SS.
McCutchen doesn’t make sense as a backup or platoon partner in CF.
The Phillies, knowing his speed and range were hampered by the devastating knee injury, moved him to left.
Having had a very good career, Cutch will want good money – not 3mm as a bench player.
Yes it would. Frankly, Gleyber and Voit on the right side is ugly.
Didi is likely done as a SS. So it makes zero sense to add more bad defense.
Ct-McCutcheon has not been a centerfielder since 2017 with the Pirates,and even then would have been moved to left that year if Marte would not have been suspended for I think 80 games.
I think that someone will give him $7M or $8M but only for one year.He is still better in left than the group that they used in centerfield last year.
McCutchen was on his last legs as a CF when he left the Pirates after 2017, let alone now. He just can’t cover that much space anymore, doesn’t have the wheels for that kind of range.
There is one thing Cashman never does. He never admits making a mistake with a big contract. The starting CF will be Hicks and Inciarte will take over in mid April when Hicks has his season ending injury. We won’t see him bringing in someone like Cain or Kiermaier until the deadline.
Cashman will sign Simmons because it’s a safe move. He’ll use Florial as an excuse not to sign Gardy as the 5th OF. We will probably see a decent veteran starter signing and that will be it. It’s possible he makes a run at a high end bullpen arm. He usually likes to always have 2 and Britton is out.
It’s time for Hal to sell. Yankees fans deserve an owner who doesn’t treat nickels like man hole covers. They act like the luxury tax is 10’s of millions every year. The tax is only on the overage. I don’t see how an extra $10-$20 million a year is the end of the world. Plus teams like the Yankees should chip in a little something to help teams like the Pirates increase their payroll a bit. When the Yankees charge what they do at the stadium they have no right to gripe about a few million in tax.
The Pirates get plenty of revenue sharing money.They will increase their payroll once they have a competitive team.They have so many young cheap players that they do not need a lot of free agents until these supposed good young players get some experience.They just need enough to get them a decent team at this point.
The Yankees have of course one of the historic teams of any sport,but the days of AL non competitiveness are long since over.
Man, Stott must really know how to take a walk. You gotta love those OBP stats if you’re a Phillies fan. Rather than spend a bunch of money on a long-term shortstop the Phillies might be better off seeing if DiDi rebounds while Stott continues at AAA. If Stott does well and DiDi sucks again they could just bench him and bring Stott up to take his starting job. You would hate to trade prospects or spend a bunch of payroll.on a shortstop if you have one in the minors who is almost ready. I know they could always move Stott to a different position but you don’t want to give up on Bohm either just because he went through some 2nd year growing pains.
I’d rather spend money on the many holes we have rather than just one. Trade for CF, buy LF, buy some pitching. Use Bohm and Did/Stott on the left side of IF.
The Phillies I’d imagine would be all-in on shattering the luxury tax threshold. If they don’t sign Correa, then Schwarber, Kiermaier, and relief pitching would be targets, no? Maybe even Bryant since he has versatility.
Hammer:
The problem is MiL stats just aren’t dependable. There are plenty of guys that hit well at AA, or AAA, that didn’t hit when they got to the bigs.
I also have to wonder if the Phillies aren’t as high on Stott as some of the fans. He’s already 24 years old, Fangraphs has recently bumped his FV up from 45+ to 50. That says serviceable to me. By comparison, Correa played 99 games for the Astros at the age of 20, and had an FV of 65 before being promoted.
Since Stott is an unknown quantity, and has never been their top prospect, if I were DD, I’d try as hard as I could to make a Correa signing work. If Stott becomes an above MLB average guy, that’s a good problem to have.
Maybe a Correa signing can’t be made to work, Didi is a problem making the numbers difficult, but I’d still try, Didi contract comes off the board at the end of the season.
General rule: MLB players hit just below their minor league success rates. So a player with decent minor league stats will be pretty bad in the majors… a very good hitter in the minors will be merely decent in the majors, etc… general rule…
Stott can move to 2nd or 3rd should the Phillies decide to splurge on one of the big SS. Honestly defense up the middle is so important and the Phillies don’t have it. Correa or Story would really move the needle.
@sfes I expected the Phillies to break the tax threshold the last 3 years, but they haven’t.
VonPurple:
Yeah, I read a scouting report that really liked his approach at the plate, but questioned his D. It projected him moving to 3B, It also said he had a strong arm that could be inconsistent and wild on occasion.
@Von it seemed like the Mets and Braves kept handing the Phillies the chance to take the East over and over last year but they’d take a step forward and 2 back. If any team is in the position to crack the threshold it’s the Phillies. I can’t imagine you hire DD and don’t expect him to write blank checks. I’ve been nervous all off-season that they’d go nuts and sign Correa, Schwarber, and trade for a lockdown reliever. Maybe they’re waiting to see what the penalty is going to be set at after the CBA is negotiated? I mean Christ they have the league MVP and near Cy Young winner in their primes, and that rotation has potential to be great. Back when they got Lidge I knew that they had just taken the NL East again. You guys have loyal fans who bleed the colors just like us, so I feel the pain of the last few years. But I think this might be the year they spend more.
@Hayes Didn’t they bat Cutch lead off? If he’s still able to hit say .260/.340/.400 that’s worth a cheap flyer. Who would be their lead off guy right now? Segura? Gonna need baserunners in front of Bryce, JT, and Hoskins
Cosmo:
Yeah that’s the general rule, but there are always outliers. As a Giants fan I think of guys like Matt Downs, who some Giants fans anointed the solution at 2B for seasons to come, based on his MiL stats and a good debut.
In the minors he slashed .285/.348/.458 with an .806 OPS. Over his 4 year career with the Giants and Astros he slashed .230/.296/.406 with a .702 OPS.
See, those stats for Downs would not seem to me, too outside the norm. With a minor league BA/OBP of .285/.348, I’d predict that in the majors he’d go about .255/.318, so not so far off. Basically anyone with those minor league stats would be hit or miss, but unlikely to be particularly good.
I guess I’d disagree that a BA of -25 points, and an OBP of -22 points, is not far off. I don’t think it’s that close.
The .255/.318 you cite is close to MLB league average, 25 and 22 points below league average is significantly underperforming.
A .435 SLG is also league average, Downs’ SLG of 29 points less, along with his BA and OBP, is why he lasted only 4 seasons. If he had been a league average hitter he could have hung around longer.
That’s about what I figure to be the drop off from minor league stats to major league stats. Perhaps it’s not that small, but that’s what I believe it to be. But I see your point.
sfes: Cutch started the season batting lead off, but after April he was hitting 4th-5th-6th depending on the starting pitcher and which Phillies were on the IL. He had a rough April, only hitting .169. I think part of that was the black hole of Roman Quinn and Adam Hasely hitting a combined .061 in the 8 hole, then the pitchers spot. Cutch was coming up a lot with no one on base and two outs. Seemed like he was just trying to hit everything hard and pulling to the 3rd baseman.. His batting average never recovered. He still managed to get on base at a .301 clip despite the terrible batting average.
He did hit lead off for the Yankees and Phillies previously, and did a great job in 2018 and 2019 before the ACL injury, But he’s much more of a home run / RBI guy that is willing to take a lot of walks though. His OPS in June and July was 1.027 and .906.. His knee injury flared up and he went on the 10 day IL in August and cooled off after that, but he still played the most games out of any Phillie. And the OPS was still .789 in September. They could potentially use him at lead off again though if he came back.
Personally, I think the Phillies should bring Cutch back. He’d probably take $8 Million on a one year deal, or maybe $15 Million over two years. That’s decent for 27 home runs and 80 RBI last year. Also a clubhouse leader. Last year was his first full year back after the ACL injury too, so I’d expect a better defensive year in 2022. A lot of Phillies fans want to see them sign Correa and Schwarber, but I don’t think they have that kind of money remaining, plus a lot of holes to fill. Schwarber could be a huge bust anyway. If they traded for Kiermaier for center, and had Cutch in left field with a day at DH every week, I think they’d be ok. Could still flip Didi potentially, get a big shortstop, then work on some bullpen pieces.
Don- good post.And you and I know that Andrew has never hit during the first couple of months in cold weather.
I’ve picked the Phillies to land Correa. It just makes too much sense.
I’m not nervous about that. That’s what they NEED to be doing. Otherwise they are honestly just flushing payroll as an also ran. So many excuses about the tax. I swear, the threshold better be bumped to something like $245 million or the players really screwed themselves.
@bucketbrew35 I say I’m nervous about it cause I’m a Mets fan lol. It would be great for you guys!
Mendoza Line- Thanks! Yes, Cutch has always been a slow starter due to the cold weather. .242 for his career in April. I always wondered what would happen if he signed with a team that played in a dome. His career numbers in Miami and Tampa are pretty eye popping. Milwaukee really good also.
How many millions would the Phils have to put in the package for the Yanks to take Didi? 4mm? 6? 8?
I would go with Gleyber at SS, and DJ at second, in 19 his fielding was- 2.6. This year fangraphs projects Bogaerts at -4..7, Turner -2.6, and Anderson -6.5. I don’t get it.
Uhh, no. The Yankees got the best from Gregorius. Didi can’t hit or field at this stage.
We sure did, 99.
He was in such a difficult spot too stepping in for Jeter. Remember the “DumDum Gregorius” stuff at RAB? & later he made it all the way to “Derek Who?” & no matter what, he was always just so upbeat. The Didi who played for us would be a perfect fit. So I see the temptation.
But you’re right.
We caught his zenith. We’d actually be better off just leaving Torres there. On both sides of the ball.
These articles seem to stretching reality more and more. Didi is a DFA candidate
I agree. Didi ‘s2018 and 2020 shortened campaign were good, but other than that not so much. He is turning 32, my guess is teams would look to Didi in a utility role and go with younger talent.
Right. That’s where his value is right now: questionably worth a roster spot. He’s nobody’s solution to anything, least of all starting shortstop.
Finding a taker for Didi is going to be troublesome. He was pretty abysmal in 2021.
This is the kind of deal that leads to a trade and an amazing 2022 season for Didi. Not unlike when Santana was dealt.
Can’t believe he’s only going to be 32 whenever the season resumes…
Gregorious is less a trade candidate and more of a salary dump. I would be surprised if the Phillies actually found a taker unless its a bad contract swap or they pay down the majority of the money owed
Didi for Kimbrel.
The White Sox have one of the games best SS in Tim Anderson. For all the talk of moving Didi to another position; Gregorious has played all of 13 games or 89.2 innings at 2B/3B and all came in 2014. I think people are overestimating Didi’s ability to play elsewhere in the field based solely on the comments of a GM who is trying to get rid of him in the first place
If WS do that they are out of their minds.
They’d be better off moving Hendriks to set up role and having Kimbrel close because, while absurd in that you are moving an elite closer to placate someone else, it has a far greater chance of being a positive move.
DIdi isn’t even as good as Leury Garcia at this point.
One overpaid washed up player for another?
Ya, but, like, Johnny Fever (Howard Hessman) passed away today….life has little meaning….
I honestly don’t see the Phillies going after Correa or Story. Their outfield is a mess outside of Harper. They have to address that area. They also need another arm or two in their bullpen. Giving a big contract to Correa or Story limits their ability to fill their other needs. If they move Didi, the Phils would be more likely to sign someone like Simmons than Correa or Story
A lot of sites list the Phillies as a top destination for Correa….? I hope you are right and they pass on him and allocate funds to their bigger needs…
It’s a whole lot easier to find a serviceable OF than it is to get a good defensive SS that contributes significantly to the offense. There are better reasons not to sign Correa or Story. I can understand why Philly might not want to make the huge commitment on a big contract that either would require. But needing someone in the OF as the main reason not to sign an elite SS is a very poor one.
No, it isn’t a poor reason when you need two outfielders. Harper is really all the Phils have in the outfield. They have no center fielder. They have some guys they could probably platoon in left, but I’m not sure how productive that will be. The Phils also still need help in the bullpen. Spending $330 million to sign Correa isn’t going to help them fill their other needs. Story would cost them less, but I’m not really sure how good Story is. He was terrible last season & his numbers away from Coors have been poor. Better off bettering your team by spreading your money out to fill your other needs than spending it all on a SS. I don’t think Correa or Story is going to help them get outs late in games when their relievers are imploding
Phillies plan to trade for CF upgrade. So signing Correa won’t impact that. There aren’t many viable CF FA options. You can’t spend money on an upgrade that isn’t there. Signing Correa or Story solves a lot of problems. I don’t see it, but I’d love it.
ericl:
The Braves basically found 3 OFs on the fly last season and won a title. The Giants OF was a revolving door during their 3 in 5 run. If the Phillies want to win a title, they’re not going to do it by just adding 2 OFs from the guys available.
My point is they should sign Correa, then go over the tax threshold with serviceable OFs on short contracts. Yes they need OFs but I don’t think it’s either/or. They should do both, or next season they’ll only be marginally better than they were in 2021
If someone takes Didi and it doesn’t cost the Phil’s a lot in money or prospects, DB must have incriminating photos of that GM.
Would love to see the Phils trade his salary but in what will be a shortened ST , doubt it happens unless he proves healthy . Even then we will not get full value unless we attach a decent prospect or take back money ( or both ).
I want Nicky Lopez at short.. throw the money at the BP and one of the OF spots.
Didi for JUp
Upton has a full no trade, which he said he won’t wave…..But the thought was a solid one…..
Sadly it would be a good move
Sad that he won’t wave. It’s really the polite thing to do.
Drowning not waving.
Gregorious’ defense was waning in 2020….Not sure many Gms who are planning to compete see him as a starter…..Looking at Colorado, who nobody knows what’s the internal plan, maybe they’d think Didi could open as the starter? As the season goes, depending on his play, hand the job fully to Rogers….?
You know these GMs are burning up their burner accounts….It will surely be a bonanza the first week….Hopefully Didi goes to a place that wants him…
Rodgers is already the better player and hitter, finally got over the injury bug last year. Didi won’t be starting ahead of him at any point.
I’m surprised that an MLBTR writer would say that Gregorious is a better option than Aledmys Diaz. Very poor take, not true. If there was a guarantee Gregorious could go to his previous form, sure. Based on recent performance Diaz is definitely the better option.
Didi and the 7 million difference in salary to Cincinnati for Shogo Akiyama. Give Jose berrios a year to get ready to take over in 2023. Gives Phillies an defensive outfielder. Lets Kyle farmer be utility man for Cincinnati
I still think Didi and Moniak for Kimbrel is a fair trade. Money is almost the same. Phils get a probable closer. Sox put Didi at second and take a chance on a former, yet still young, top overall pick…
Sox don’t make that deal.
What would Didi cost if he were a free agent? Because taking on a significant slug of his salary and giving up a prospect seems kind of steep given his production last year, and his last season with the Yankees (2019). I think there’s some market, but it can’t be a particularly deep nor warm one.
He might not get signed at all if he were a free agent at this point. He certainly wouldn’t command much.
32 and only one season removed from a .827 OPS. Depending on how much the Phillies eat his contract, I’m interested.
Bounce backs to that degree usually don’t happen. Not saying it can’t, it’s just uncommon
I think that might work if the Phillies send a player O’ Hoppe, catcher, and Didi, for Britton, and Garcia.
I think you’re on crack.
I’d say it’s even more than just uncommon, it’s rare.
That .827 OPS is a small sample. Over his last 3 seasons that OPS is .712.
Counting on a bounce back at 32? Bad bet.
he’s 32, not 42. that’s not old in sports nowadays. just not young.
32 is old for baseball. 42 is – you’re an outlier if you’re even in the sport at all. 32 is decline years.
Yanks trade Britton and a low level prospect for didi. Pretty much a contract swap while the Phillies get a flyer. Thoughts?
Britton is out for the majority of the 2022 season so that makes no sense for the Phillies.
Exactly – rather than trading a prospect with his salary, they get a (low level) prospect for the salary they already are paying.
Worth noting that Didi played through a particularly painful form of elbow arthritis last season, which caused him to miss almost two months. If that can be better controlled (there was talk of offseason surgery, but it’s unclear if that actually happened) it could make a big difference.
Didi may have been the best Phillie in 2020, but was he ever atrocious last year. He was terrible at the plate and terrible in the field. He incredibly likeable and he was a great Yankee, but I’m sure the Yankees FO doesn’t see him as that player any longer.
Hey, the Orioles are stupid. They love old, washed up, expensive veterans to make deals with like this. It serves two purposes. It can be used to say to the fans, “Well, see, we DID spend money and it didn’t work, so you see, the answer isn’t just how much you spend,” and, “Well, because we spent so much money on player X, we just don’t have the financial ability to hold onto an actual good player we’ve managed to draft and develop, so we’ll just go ahead and trade him away for scrap heap players and tell everyone what a sweetheart deal we got.”
Don’t blame Didi. The Phillies were already bad before he got there.
They weren’t bad. Just mediocre. .500 isn’t bad. It’s just not great. They finished over .500 last year, but barely.
48-team MLB:
I think you got it backwards. The Phillies were worse than they should been because Didi was playing SS.
Pretty sure Didi had a negative WAR so they would have been better with any average player at SS.
Didi for Grichuk. Phillies get a corner OF, Jays get a lefty bench guy.
I could see that if Philly sends $5M to even out the money. Jays may not go for it though.
Grichuk is worth more to the Jays than Didi is.
Need a back up CF
I agree, the Jays need a back up CF/4th OF. Over the past 2 seasons, a tick over 1100 innings, Grichuk has a -10 DRS in CF. That isn’t a guy that can play center.
Presumably, if they moved Grichuk, they’d be looking to add another outfielder. By the end of the season, Grichuk was firmly behind Dickerson on the depth chart and lost playing time to Dyson as well. It’s not necessarily because those guys are better than him, but they better complimented the other 3 by virtue of offering a different skill set whereas Grichuk is similar to the starting 3 so there are fewer opportunities for him to be played in matchups. I don’t think Grichuk alone is the right depth for that particular outfield group so they’ll address that anyway and will complicate Grichuk’s path to playing time.
The money end helps both teams a bit. DiDi is cheaper overall but owed more this season. Philly gets a little more wiggle room in this year’s budget while adding at a needed position. Toronto saves overall but especially in ‘23 which is the season they need to be careful about from a budget perspective. I suspect this is why they explored the Grichuk/JBJ idea.
There are relatively few contract swap candidates that would achieve this and though Gregorius might not be the sole answer to Toronto’s need for infield help or LH bat, he could be part of it and they’ve liked him before.
Other candidates for a Grichuk swap in the JBJ model? Longoria, Segura, Myers, Kiermaier, Upton, Cain, Carrasco, Keuchel, Price, Kimbrel, Will Smith (LRP)? Complications around some of those options while others don’t seem to provide any greater opportunity to the players changing hands.
Jays can get better value back for Grichuk.
Who do you have in mind?
I saw Didi play a 3 game series against Atlanta in Philly this year. He looked COOKED. No range and a VERY slow bat. It was only a small sample size but it was so bad and late in the season I thought they may release him. If they weren’t in the playoff chase they might have.
The Cubs need a SS and a lefty bat. They should sign Correa or Story, but Jed is rumored to be terrified of long contracts after Heyward flopped atrocious. Maybe they would take a flier on Didi. They aren’t trying to win, and if he rebounds Jed could flip him at the deadline.
Please please please trade him.
it’s all a matter of what your read on his gout situation is. he could bounce back nicely if he can get a handle on it, but knowing gout it ain’t easy.
Sometimes it’s not putting good players with good teams, it’s putting good teams with the right players.
The Phillies have too many pitching and outfield needs to prioritize shortstop.I think DD was basically telling Didi indirectly to get healthy and be ready to go in spring training.If he is the old Didi he will be serviceable the whole year.If not,they may have to rush Stott.The Phillies have sunk a lot of money into three players and would not want to commit to another mega contract.They have too many holes to fill to do that.A turnaround by Didi would make DD’s life a lot easier.
They could resign Cutch if he will take a one year reasonably modest contract for under $10M.
I think that they are going to go after two starters and two relievers all for $5-8 M each.
Phillies pitching is okay. Bullpen is a problem in part because of bad defense, especially in the IF. Improving SS and CF has trickle down impact on everything.
It is Ok.And what that means is that it results in a .500 team.
I think that management is now under pressure to at least get into the playoffs.I think that Giraldi’s job is in serious jeopardy if they do not.And pitching is one thing that you cannot have too much of.
I don’t know, Mendoza. I really don’t see pitching as the big problem. Looking at the defense the last three years, I think that’s the biggest issue. They’ve addressed the bullpen constantly, and will continue to do so until something sticks, but they really need to fix SS and CF if they want to compete in any fashion. I actually really like their starting rotation although I think they need another backend starter for depth.
I really do not Pooh Pooh fielding,as I was a much better fielding shortstop than hitter through my high school days,but I think that many people overrate it’s effect like it wins or loses a lot of games every year.The difference in fielding average at most between the best and worst teams is 2%.I realize that errors are only part of it,and the amount of ground that the fielders cover is very important,but how much so?2%,5%,10%?I think more than 2 but less than 5.With all of the strikeouts now fielding even takes more of a backseat.What is extremely important now is that you have good pitching depth with the extreme amount of injuries that happen..This is one of the reasons that the small market teams cannot really compete for WS wins on any sort of even somewhat consistent basis.,I agree with you that upgrades at both SS and CF positions are very important for the Phillies.I just think that pitching is so important and has been only so OK that they still need to add to have a complete and fine overall pitching staff.
We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one.
Nola’s peripheral stats were in line with his career norms. When you run up a lineup with only two net positive fielders (Segura & Realmuto) at 8 positions what do you think the results will be?
It causes good pitchers to struggle and mediocre bullpens to implode. I feel like the affects were massive. Then you like at a team like the Cardinals. Their defense is the reason they went on the run that they did. Their lack of X-Factors and true stars is why they feel flat. The Phillies have those, but desperately need the defense.
Those of us who live near Philadelphia and follow the Phillies every day because we love baseball know that Nola struggled mightily last year.He was not good in big games,and seemed to have lost confidence.
It was not because of the defense.
Granted,the Phillies defense was not particularly good,but they did not have statues out there.They are major leaguers,two way players,no DH’s that had to field a position.Nola gave up two unearned runs.How many more did this “awful” defense cause him to lose?
His peripherals referred did not show his 4.63 era.His previous average era was about 3:45.Did this “awful” defense inflate it by 1.18 runs per nine innings?
Regarding the Cardinals,did they suddenly acquire Bill Mazeroski,Brooks Robinson,Ozzie Smith,Wes Parker,and Willie Mays during their 17 game streak,or did the same defense play the whole year?
The Phillies had an historically bad bullpen in 2020,and last year was not a whole lot better.It had nothing to do with defense.
Why did Wheeler have his best year ever if they were as bad as you say they were?
I am not doubting that a good defensive team helps the pitchers,but they must help themselves first.
IMO Phillies have one of the best starting fives in baseball, led by Ranger and Wheeler. Nola and Gibson struggled because of the bad defense. Elfin is a good #4. The issue is they have no depth at all and their defense sucks and their bullpen blows games.
Nola and Gibson struggled period.Wheeler is a good #1,Nola a good #2,Suarez probably a good #3,Gibson a decent #4,Eflin a very good #5 If and when he comes back healthy,which may be with only 100 games left in the season.The #5 pitcher theoretically only starts one less game than your #1 and #2.
Who is behind these guys?What happens if you lose one of them or some have a drop off in production like Nola did last year?OF and SS are the obvious places where improvement is necessary as they were holes in 2021.Sign Simmons to a one year contract to bolster infield defense.Sign Cutch for a one year stopgap in left field.Trade for a decent centerfielder.But good and deep pitching gets you into the playoffs and I am not sure that they are quite good enough and certainly not deep enough at this position.And I did not even address the relievers who have been historically bad lately.
Have him go to Mexiconfor a few months, come back with 25lbs more muscle and become a DH for the next 10 years. Could be a first ballot HOF if he does that
I don’t understand the preference for signing some league average OFs and RPs over signing an elite SS. Why not both? So what if they exceed the CBT threshold? They can afford to do that for a couple years.
Sure, it’s going to take 10 years for Correa, but deals those OFs and RPs will be 3 years max. Some can be only 1 year deals. If they win a title, they can dip back under the tax level, and be mediocre for a year or two.
I admit that there are issues with a contract that it will take to sign Correa. There are reasons not to sign him. But I think saying we don’t want Correa, we just want sign a few OFs and RPs instead, is not one of them. If Philly wants a title they need to do more than spread some money around to a few league average players.
I agree with everything you said tad. There are plenty of reasons not to take a shot at Correa, but saving money for mediocre OFs is not one of them. The team needs another bat, improve defense up the middle and 2 OFs. Correa or Story fixes 2 of those needs. I don’t necessarily see the Phillies going for one of the big SSs, but they should strongly consider it. I think a signing of that nature puts them right there with the Mets and perhaps even Braves.
Tad-The Phillies do not have any depth and some very big holes to fill.They have enough all stars but the holes must be filled,especially in pitching.How many years have they been thinking that they had at least a decent bullpen?How many years did they think that Vince Velasquez would make a good starter?When are they going to realize that they need real depth when it comes to pitching?Who is the real Aaron Nola?They have lucked out in the three superstars that they have because they have provided very good returns.No team wins with just superstars.They need depth,and they need pitching,and they need to fill these holes with good low to medium priced players where they can.It is real easy to say let’s spend the owner’s money.Good GM’s find the contributors around edges.Just because you spend $35M a year on Correa will not in any way come close to guaranteeing any championship.Who knows whether he will get hurt or go south in a year.The honeymoon is over for DD.Anyone can sign the superstars if the owner ponies up funny money.They know,though,unlike you evidently,that they are much more than one player away from competing for a championship.
Mendoza:
Almost every team has holes. The Braves had holes last season.
The Phillies pitching wasn’t as bad 2021 as it appeared. Yeah, their team ERA+ was 96, 20th in MLB, 5 points below league average, but the team FIP was 4.15. That ranked 13th best. The WS champion Braves’ FIP was 4.09. The pen wasn’t that bad either. In Wins Above Average, Philly relievers were league average.
This suggests to me that with better defense they’d have won more games last season. Adding an elite defensive SS to anchor that IF would be fixing the biggest problem on the team.
Look at the available OFs. Guys like Marisnick, Dyson, Pillar, Locastro, or Jankowski in CF, Rosario, Pham, or Corey Dickerson in LF, aren’t going to be the difference in winning a WS. Conforto would be a nice get, but he’d have to change positions, and he’ll cost a draft pick.
Sure Correa could get hurt, but so can any other guy. Every FA signing is a gamble. The Phillies aren’t going to win by patching some holes with marginally better players.
I suggested in one of these posts to sign Simmons and McCutcheon,and augment the starting pitching and sign at least two good solid relievers.If DD is any good he can fill in from the sides.He gave away Irwin last year so I do not know about the latter.The small market teams have to do that.My guess though is that the funny money is running out,and to spend $300-350M on one player can easily be financial suicide,even for a big market team.You win in the playoffs with pitching,and well rounded teams with more pitching will make it another lost year for Phillies fans.
Ignore $300M-350M. It’s not the meaningful number. Focus on whether they can add $30M to the payroll this year. That is the more important mark. Answer might be no, but focus on 2022’s budget.
Kje-Of course you can ignore it isn’t coming out of your pocket.Any responsible business has accountants and business people whose job is not to ignore such a large number.It can kill a team if not invested wisely.DD has options as I have expressed.Icould be wrong,but I think that they are smart enough to pursue them.
Tad-I agree with you that the outfield options that you mention are untenable.That is why they need to trade for a good defensive centerfielder and sign McCutcheon.
Mendoza:
Simmons and McCutchen aren’t going to get the Phillies a WS title. Trading for a good defensive CF is a start, but McCutchen is probably a 4th OF at this point, which wouldn’t be bad actually.
I also disagree with your take that a $300-$350M deal can be financial suicide for a large market team. Philly is not a small market team so they shouldn’t be operating like one.
I remember hearing from Giants fans how the contracts of Aaron Rowand, Barry Zito and Matt Cain, which were top of the market, or close, at the time, had hamstrung the Giants. They managed to do okay.
Big contracts that turn out badly are usually just a minor inconvenience for big budget teams. If the goal is to make money, then the Phils shouldn’t sign Correa. If the goal is to win a WS title, the biggest boost they could get in that pursuit is to sign Correa.
At this point, after what the Mets have done, the Phillies look like 3rd best in the NL East. Simmons and McCutchen aren’t going to move them ahead of the Mets or Braves.
No,but Simmons,McCutcheon and a good centerfielder will,along with good depth at both starting and relief pitching.The Phillies have enough hitting.They need defense and pitching,and Correa alone is not going to provide it.The money that they would spend is $8-10M more than for that one player alone.And if they concentrate just on him it is going to be more of the same.They will be a better team and that is it.
Phillies offense is overrated and struggled last year at times. They need another bat. When Hoskins went down. only Harper hit.
For Randal Gritchuk straight up
If Al Avila would quit concentrating on sounding like Elmer Fudd, he could make a deal. Stop trying to sell Kool Aid and get on with building a monster.
He could have hired the Superfife and we would have already had a deal in place.
$15M is lot of money. Top prospect money. Andrew Painter money.
If DD doesn’t win, he will be long gone before Painter is due, so it’s no sweat to the Dom.
You want us to fix your outfield? Your Bullpen? Your payroll?
We can help you.
That’s the cost.
No thanks. I really liked Didi a few years back but the Angels don’t need another over paid declining vet.
If the White Sox can’t get Segura maybe Didi would help at 2nd? Kimbrel is the Papelbon-esque fragile ego closer with an even higher salary that they don’t need.
Say what you will about Paplebon, but that guy lived up to every penny of that Phillies contract. His numbers were dominant, but the team was just falling apart with injuries at that point. I hate Paps, but he was arguably the best closer the team ever had.
The Phillies have their potential closer already. I’m not in love with Kimbrel especially at the cost. And those talking about trading Segura for Kimbrel are crazy. Segura was the 2nd best hitter on the Phillies last year and was more worthy of the ASG than Realmuto.
Papelbon was a good closer,but. I am not sure where he ranks among the best,as Tug McGraw was a fine one also.The two best years by far belonged to Jim Konstanty and Brad Lidge of course.
@Mendoza Agreed about the Konstanty and Lidge years. They were magical, but overall Paps was more reliable albeit on a declining team. Tug belongs in the conversation for best reliever as well for sure.
VonPurple:
I agree about Papelbon. He gave the Phillies 3+ years of 167 ERA+. And the Phillies traded him at right time. He was much better in Philly than he was in DC.
Phillies should wait to get Didi going in Spring and May-June and let Stott settle in
@ SS or 2B, then deal him to the Yankees or another team looking for a short term deal with reasonable cost….
Correa or Story could be a nice SS pickup for the Phillies.
Improved Phillies Defense will make their Starters and Relievers better and more effective. Phillies must commit to going over the luxury tax. They have players coming off the payroll in ’23 also.
The Rays CF Kermeir or A’s CF Ramon Laureano would be good pickups in a trade.
Sad how it was Dombrowski who signed Gregorious for 2 years, and now is trying to backpedal and doesn’t know what to do with him….
Bringing McCutchen back isn’t such a horrible idea. There are concerns about his defense, but Schwarber or Castellanos are no better defensively…..
Signing one of the expensive big name shortstops is tempting, but then do what with Stott? Bounce him all over to other positions? Didn’t work out very well with Kingery…..
Give the in-house young relievers a chance – sink or swim with them. Stop signing or trading for other teams washed up, reject, and retread relievers. All the Phillies have done is sink with them…..
Starting rotation is ‘potentially’ good – time will tell. Really no worse than any other team’s. No team in baseball has 5 All Star Cy Young Award Candidates in their rotation….
@Phillls The Phillies have a small window with Harper, Realmuto and Wheeler in their prime now. They either need to completely dismantle everything (which seems very unlikely) or go all-in and compete. Stott is not going to be a huge factor for the next few years. They can move him to other areas of the IF, in fact, some scouts already project him as a corner IF, but they can also move him to 2B. Signing Cutch and plugging holes is not enough. This is a huge market team. Harper has brought in a ton of money already. They need to make a splash. I’m not saying it has to be one of the big-name SS (although it should be), but they need to make some quality FA signings to move the needle. As of right now, the Phillies are a 4th place team behind the Marlins. With last year’s MVP and the CY Young runner-up, that’s a huge embarrassment. Phillies can easily dig themselves out of this hole. They’ve never been cheap, but they’ve never gone all in. It’s time to go all in.
Von-I do not think that Phills and I disagree with most of what you say.They do need to spend major money to upgrade so that they can compete in their division,let alone in the NL,let alone in a WS.They cannot do that with band aids and mediocre players and older injury prone pitchers.Mypoint is that this substantial amount of money needs to be spread around to six players instead of just one or two..It is going to put them near $225M which is way more than they have spent in the past.That will be the price to compete because they will become a well rounded team with plenty of the good pitching depth that their farm system has never really produced.
You are right, Mendoza. I am not disagreeing with Von (or you) at all. I think you 2 are two of the most ‘common sense’ posters on here and bring up many good points as opposed to those who can only scream Trade! Release! DFA! Fire! I just tend to spout my opinions here and there, and everyone is welcome to agree or disagree. Bottom line is most of us are (suffering) Phillies who are hoping for the best
Phillis-Thanks for the post and the complement.I,like you,enjoy interacting with intelligent,knowledgeable posters.There are enough “homers”,trolls,knuckleheads,and just plain imbeciles who post here,but I have found lately that most truly have something to say and bring out good opinions.It is a pleasure for me to deal with them.
But I must come clean,so to speak.I have liked the Phillies since 1962 watching Tony Taylor play second base and realizing that relatively young men could be bald when Clay Dalrymple took of his cap for the National Anthem.I moved to this area 44 years ago from the Pittsburgh area where I grew up.I still root for them.
And,with all due respect,with five WS appearances since 1980 the Phillies are way ahead of the Buccos in that area.Good luck this year.