Last month, Evan Drellich of the Athletic reported that Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association weren’t expected to discuss core economics issues until after the New Year. The calendar has since flipped, but there still don’t seem to be any talks on the horizon. Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports (on Twitter) that there is currently no schedule for the next set of collective bargaining discussions.
Nightengale adds that the parties have met twice since MLB instituted a lockout in the early morning hours of December 2. Those talks, as expected, were strictly regarding issues not related to core economics. It’s those key economic issues (i.e. the game’s service time structure, the competitive balance tax and potential playoff expansion) that are of greatest importance to both sides. Finding a mutually agreeable solution on such topics figures to be the most time-consuming and difficult aspect of negotiations.
In the aftermath of the lockout, both commissioner Rob Manfred and key members of the MLBPA (including executive director Tony Clark, lead negotiator Bruce Meyer and players with leadership roles in the union) have expressed a desire to get back to the bargaining table. That hasn’t happened in earnest over the past four weeks, although it’s not clear talks would’ve achieved much regardless. Drellich wrote last month that individuals on both sides believed that December discussions on core economics would likely have only resulted in negotiators “saying the same things to each other over and over.”
Instead, it seems that there’ll need to be an approaching deadline that spurs conversation. At this point on the calendar, neither side is dealing with the level of financial pressure they’d face if the threat of game cancelations became more tangible. The league’s owners aren’t in imminent danger of losing gate revenues, while the players aren’t yet faced with the possibility of foregoing game checks.
Spring Training games are first scheduled to begin on February 26. Players aren’t paid for Spring Training, but owners would first face lost revenues at that point. If the work stoppage lingers long enough into Spring Training that regular season games are threatened — at least some form of exhibition play, even if abbreviated, will be required for players to work their way into game shape — then the possibility of lost income for players looms larger. Of course, current free agents (and a few players in DFA limbo) are faced with ongoing employment uncertainty due to the ban on major league transactions.
For now, it doesn’t seem those scenarios are imminent enough to push the parties back to the negotiating table. It does seem, however, that significant progress will have to be made at some point during this month. Shortly after the institution of the lockout, Nightengale suggested the sides viewed February 1 as a “soft deadline” for a new CBA to be in place in order to avoid interruptions to Spring Training. He floated March 1 as a possible deadline for regular season play to proceed on schedule given the need for some form of ramp-up period. Opening Day is currently scheduled for March 31.
DarkSide830
are you actually kidding me?
commentinggenius
It’s like they think it’s good for the sport to be in lock out. How many fans they want to lose before they figure this out?
Redwolves3
No negotiations scheduled yet! MLB / MLBPA / Commissioner it’s January 2022. It’s time to quit posturing and get serious. What you’re doing is not good for baseball. If you can’t resolve your differences soon you risk the wrath of the fans.
swinging wood
Even worse, they risk the loss of fans.
prov356
redwolves – So, what does “the wrath of the fans” look like? I’d bet a dollar that everyone on here complaining and threatening to leave baseball will be the first ones to turn on their TVs once the season starts.
Anyone who spends time on this site is a serious fan of the game and will never leave it. All the fan posturing without being in a position of actual power is silly.
etex211
I went to a major league park three times in 2021. I’ve already made the decision that I won’t be going in 2022. My interest is now limited to whatever is available on TV. Quite frankly, my interest in my fantasy leagues (I’m in four, and run one of those) is the only thing keeping me attached to the game right now, and I’m beginning to question that.
CursedRangers
I was a season ticket holder for 8 years. I’ve watched a game at every current MLB stadium. The entire ARod saga years ago made me drop my season tickets and go with a 10-game plan. The Astros scandal made me drop that 10-game plan. Last year I went to 3 games, 2 of which were Angels games as I wanted to see Ohtani pitch and hit in the same game. I don’t think I watched a combined 9 innings of baseball on TV. Do I still consider myself a fan – yes. But my following of baseball is now all but limited to the Athletic and MLB Trade Rumors. Baseball is playing a dangerous game with fans. Has been for years. So you’re spot on, I’ll still be a fan regardless. However my interest is waning, and more importantly how much money I spend has all but tapered off.
ekrog
Given the average age of the baseball fan I’d be more concerned than with death than wrath.
WillieS
I was a Pirates fan from 1973-94. I left the game I love for 20 years. I returned in 2014 through a series of events… I’d leave again because there’s other things in life to do! Stopped watching football with the kneeling and the NBA with the protests but you’re correct; most will come back but this is my story
yankees2016rebuild
They obviously don’t give a crap about us fans. Its all about money to both sides and then they wonder why they are the 3rd most popular sport in America.
prov356
yankees – “Its all about money…”
So, money is why you work too, if you do. There is nothing wrong with negotiating your side into a better financial position. You would do the same and so would I.
Cosmo2
If I were already making as much as star players do I don’t think I would be engaging in hardball negotiations, no. Especially if doing so left others (fans) out in the cold. There’s plenty of reason for fans to be resentful of both sides…. Might be what you would do but don’t assume everyone is that way.
prov356
Cosmo2 – “Especially if doing so left others (fans) out in the cold.”
That’s a little dramatic, which is the consistent theme of comments over the lockout. It’s a game for our entertainment. Watching the business of baseball happen doesn’t affect anyone with the title of fan other than the slim potential of the season being delayed. That would have more affect on the players and owners than any fan. Even if that happens, it will have no bearing on your life or mine other than I would miss baseball for that moment.
Cosmo2
Yes it was an overly dramatic choice of words, I’ll give you that, but I think my point still stands: if I were already a millionaire I’d consider the feelings of others involved in the situation before I played hardball to grab even more for myself. I personally don’t feel that anyone that rich needs more.
prov356
I think the amount of money they are discussing is irrelevant. I don’t make nearly what they do but I’m sure there are people who would say I make enough if I were to be in a position to argue for more. It’s all relative. To mirror the comments of the late great Phil Valentine, the fewer people who can do what you do, the more money you can demand for your skill.
Cosmo2
I still wouldn’t bother fighting for more if I already had millions. I think it’s ridiculous. And before we get into what you think I would do things were different for me: it’s just like your idea that no one here would ever leave baseball. You’re wrong on this, you wouldn’t believe the amount of things I’ve left/given up/walked away from in my life for my beliefs. I am, as you seem to be as per a comment of yours below, somewhat religious, and I’ve made a lot of difficult changes/decisions on that account. It happens. I just turned down a good job paying almost double my current earning power on spiritual grounds. I’ve left behind things in my life far more important to me than baseball.
prov356
Good for you Cosmo. I have been in a battle over my faith recently, which is worth fighting. But baseball is entertainment for us. I believe in the free market so if what’s going on makes people stop watching and attending games, that’s a great message to send. It all seems petty on both sides of the negotiations. It just doesn’t affect my life in any way. I will watch baseball when this is over, which I believe will be prior to spring training. Cheers.
Cosmo2
Thanks, Prov356
gbs42
Cosmo2, you talked about how the millionaire players should not play hardball and instead think of the fans. Shouldn’t the owners, who are far wealthier than the players, be expected to have a similar perspective?
ajrodz1335
Bruh they better fix this before Spring Training.
manos
That’s helpful. I’m sure this will get resolved in quick and professional fashion as long as they continue to not talk or schedule time to talk.
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
That’s the strategy me and my ex use to take. Worked really well I think.
Tcsbaseball
They’ll delay the season which will really hurt the sport. Then maybe they’ll learn
blueboy714
they haven’t learned yet why would this time be any different
CubsWin108
because they haven’t had a season get delayed for awhile.
crownjew
2020?
Ancient Pistol
That wasn’t they’re fault. since the country shutdown.
BlueGreatDane
They could have played way more games in 2020 if they hadn’t wasted months being complete boneheads on negotiating how many games to play.
donotinteruptMYkungfu
Cable TV is paying owners, not necessarily ticket sales or so they say. The owners don’t seem to care about anything besides revenue which is why Manfred gets to do silly things to the long established proffesional sport like 7inning double headers, unaccounted for or free runners in extra innings, unexpected changes to rules, unexpected changes to baseballs, DH to the NL, etc.. This sport is dying and all these owners are concerned with is thier revenue. The owners are not building the fanbase with this lockout or the way the players are not marketed. I suspect once the old grumpy diehards actually die off that is where the sport will quietly dissolve.
Sadler
I’m not convinced cancelling most, if not all, of the season is that big a deal to MLB. They weathered 2020 just fine and we could be very well headed toward another highly restricted covid season anyhow.
gbs42
Teams weren’t “just fine” in 2020. They lost billions of dollars.
Sadler
@gbs42 — revenue dropped billions, they didn’t lose billions. They weathered it just fine; enough to still have a total payroll of over $3.8B in 2021.
JAMES JACOBSEN
Sounds like we need a new set of negotiators?
mlbh
It severely harms the credibility of this site to use Bob Nightengale as a source of anything other than comedy.
StarvingPiratesFan
Multi millionaires, on both sides, squabbling over a few million measly bucks. The other issues are pure gravy. Both have cushy lifestyles, which, WE the fans, pay the majority of the freight over. Since the reserve clause was abolished, these fools have acted like spoiled children. Get to the table, sequestered, until you come to an agreement. And BTW, we the fans are tired of paying for your lavish lifestyles. Get out here and work a 9 to 5, making $40k a year.
1984wasntamanual
It’s not a few million, especially not over the course of the entire CBA lifespan.
I don’t understand why people have an issue with the owners, or players and the amount of $ they get. I can certainly understand not wanting to hear about these two sides squabbling over money in front of the public, but if you don’t like them and how much they’re making, stop supporting them as fans, it really is that easy.
I watch baseball because I enjoy the game, I don’t care how much money the owner or the players make, unless that amount negatively impacts the teams’ ability to compete. However, even when that is the case, I still don’t fault the over paid players for that, that’s on management for giving them the contract. Baseball is a multi billion dollar industry, that’s why the players make what they make, no amount of complaining about it on the internet is going to change that.
claude raymond
1984, you’re correct because no matter how much fans gripe its always been as you’ve stated. And it always will be. Btw, fantastic username.
BirdieMan
“Baseball is a multi billion dollar business”. That’s exactly why they should be at the table now!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
It is a monopoly. Complain to your federal government representatives.
In the meantime, Rob, Tony and Bruce, I have some folding chairs in my garage, let me know if you need to borrow them.
Mantle536
You’re not paying attention or using any common sense, StarvingPriratesFan. The OWNERS are solely responsible for NOT meeting.
As with all union negotiations, ownership determines whether they meet with the union. (Btw, I’ve never been in a union.) So, stop blaming the players for Ownerships’ refusal to meet.
People like you foolishly play right into the hands of the Owners. They know you resent their billions, and they want you to equally hate the players for their hundreds of thousands or millions.
Wake up StarvingPriratesFan: all but six of the Owners are Billionares . . . and ZERO % of the players are billionaires, so why are you trying to equate the two?
Many fans, like you, resent the players for becoming rich doing something You Could Never Do. So, you end up equating talented players with greedy billionaires, some of whom — like Hal Steinbrenner — never worked a day in their life to become billionaires.
foppert
Or are the fans acting like impatient spoilt kids ?
As for the money fans spend, they get something back at purchase. If it’s tickets, you get to watch a game. If it’s merchandise you get to keep whatever it is you purchased. Transaction complete. Fans don’t donate towards a lavish lifestyle. They buy stuff and get something back at purchase.
Mantle536
Great post, foppert! All avid baseball fans have contributed to the financial growth of the industry and, as your Rightly Point Out, we get Something of Value to Us for our money.
I always find it annoying when fans B*tch & Moan over player salaries. Many Years Ago, I remember reading that Madonna made something like $400 Million in one 4 or 5 month tour. $400 MILLION & yet I don’t recall seeing hundreds of fans b*thcing that she was overpaid.
zachary08
It’s obvious Clark doesn’t like Manturd and Manturd doesn’t like him, time for new faces at the table
roiste
Agreed. Manfred is a greedy corporate bloodsucker who doesn’t gave a damn about the game. And Clark is just plain incompetent. Both need to go
jints1
Getting rid of Manfred and Clark will not change what is happening. The owners and players are responsible for the impasse. The players want significant change while the owners are content with the status quo. Baseball needs a commissioner who represents the fans and the sport not the owners. Won’t happen.
isaacfromfl
MLB can truly takes notes from say UFC and Dana White on what putting fans first and effective leadership is all about
yamsi1912
Both sides are morons.
mro940
Indeed both sides aren’t the brightest in the bucket, but I have to give the idiocy edge to MLBPA since they shot themselves in the foot with the last pro-owner CBA 😐
SalaryCapMyth
Heh..I was thinking similarly about Clark. The owners definitely got the better of the players on the last CBA. I’m a little surprised there hasn’t been industry talk about replacing him.
jints1
Meyer was hired by Clark to take the negotiations lead.
Cosmo2
I don’t really see this as anything other than an indication that they are still far apart. Schedule talks, don’t schedule talks, do it now, do it in a couple weeks, makes no difference to me. Just come to an agreement when they do meet and hope it doesn’t erase too much if the season. If they talked tomorrow they’d probably just posture and flex and get nowhere anyway.
giant4life
Manfred and Clark should both resign in the interest of everyone who cares about this sport. They are both too stubborn and stupid to come to an agreement in time.
In nurse follars
They are stuck on how much to reduce ticket, concessions and parking prices to make the game affordable for people like me and how to put more games on free tv for folks who cannot afford subscription sports and cable networks. Another tough issue is how to get playoff games off cable and on to free broadcast. It’s all about the fans and the fan experience after all.
bbatardo
Is it too late to change my guess for when the lockout ends? Lol
48-team MLB
This is beyond annoying. Do they really expect this garbage to sit well with the fans?
Bustedstuff88
Fools…..all of them.
Baseball is already circling the drain. Thanks clowns, you just initiated the power flush.
rennick
I wonder if they have made any agreements on the non core economic issues? The article said they met twice in Dec to discuss other topics, has anything come of this?
YanksFan22
This just confirmed to me that they literally don’t care. They know that they can waste the next season and all they have to do is blame each other so they seem innocent, when in fact, they just didn’t even bother to fix the issue.
48-team MLB
I know it’s unlikely that the Braves repeat but I’d like for them to at least have the chance.
Thomas E Snyder
Congress should modify MLB’s antitrust exemption to mandate binding arbitration if there is no agreement by Valentine’s Day.
BlueSkies_LA
These days Congress couldn’t pass a bill stating that the sun rises in the east, but FWIW the Sherman Act exemption enjoyed by baseball was carved out by the Supreme Court so it isn’t clear Congress could override it anyway.
They should agree to binding arbitration if they can’t agree on CBA terms by a date certain, but that would require the two sides to actually agree on that much, and to be talking to each other. So that ain’t never going to happen.
Treehouse22
Okay, everybody had a nice holiday break. Now, it’s time to get back to work to ensure no further damage is done to our favorite pastime. Football will keep me entertained until the first week of February, but by the 2nd week of February, we’d like to see pitchers and catchers. Get it done.
Whiskey and leather balls
Sounds about right no matter the source, like two spoiled 16 year olds playing chicken with two Bugatti’s
rememberthecoop
Take your time fellas. What’s the rush?
alc1987
they really need to quit the peeing contest.
sergefunction
Checked in for the “Tony Clark/Rob Manfred are stupid” comments. Was not disappointed.
Their collective IQ’s are quite likely over 300. Powerful, wealthy people put them front-center as their spokespersons. Yet some of you think that they are dumb? Hilarious.
Each seek and say what their clients/employers tell them what to seek and say. This is just like any other method of settling complex earthly arrangements.
I am always amazed at Messenger Killers, who practice the world’s second oldest profession (and yes, spokespeople engage in a form of the first. Not that it’s a bad thing.). You do realize that these two personally get to decide, during encounters, nothing more substantive than what they have for lunch.
DBH1969
Well, the rest of us checked in for the ‘rest of you are stupid, but I am smart’ comment. we weren’t disappointed. Thanks for that @sergefunction..
I’ll check in later to see if anyone is actually impressed by your online need to feel superior.
Guessing we all know the result of what that will be
sergefunction
Enjoy your well-earned bliss, DBH.
JoeBrady
Maybe Clark has a 150 IQ, maybe not, What I do know is that it took me 2 seconds to realize that the last CBA was an absolute disaster for the union. So tell me again how smart Clark is?
swinging wood
Their collective IQ are likely not over 300.
Virginiaphilliesfan
Well, it’s snowing here and we have a great college football championship game a week away, and then the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl. However, I also have Tampa hotel reservations and tickets to see both the Phillies and Blue Jays. Ergo, if these guys who cannot even schedule a negotiating meeting allow this to extend into the Spring Training then I will be mightily upset – they must be taking their lead from the clowns in Congress.
disgustingomar
Worst part about this whole lockout is both sides have the absolute worst 2 leaders heading the table
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
I really and truly think the owners are going to go massive hardball this time. Various reasons I’ve mentioned before – first, I don’t think ANY of the owners(please correct me if I’m wrong) list owning an MLB team as their only business. They all have other sources of income. No revenue from the sport hurts, of course – they’re wealthy businessmen for a reason – but from the point of view of taking a short term hit for long term benefits, the owners are in a MUCH better position. Second, players have a limited time to earn. Even considering the rare player who can play until he’s 40… In the business world, that easily leaves another 30 years of earning if the owner/businessman so desires. An owner losing a half a year of revenue from one of his sources doesn’t affect them anywhere NEAR as much as a player losing a half a season; that’s not even factoring in the greater danger of players not being in proper game shape if they do a “hurry up” style of training to get the games started. I know some players likely have income from endorsements, etc, but it’s not enough of a factor to overcome losing playing time and game checks. Again, a short term loss in return for a long term gain favors the owners.
I’m not going to be the least surprised if some negotiations are scheduled for mid-January and get broken off quickly if the owners don’t get most or all of what they want. Maybe the pedal gets put to the metal February 1 or something, but I just don’t see the owners making many concessions.
Never in my life have I hoped I was wrong as much as I do now…
all in the suit that you wear
Hubcap: That all seems very plausible.
Codeeg
Lol there is no season occurring. Baseballs product during the off-season is all about stories. This story while damning is more captivating than most FA debates between two internet armchair GMs.
I’m ok with taking it’s course all the way into mid April as long as the season is still happening. That being said, my fandom is in the game and numbers, and debates.
DBH1969
LOL. I chose June 1 or later.
Jdt8312
What we need is another professional baseball league. One outside of MLB. If there was some competition for fans, we would benefit with lower ticket prices, concessions, merch, et al. And then they would feel the pressure to get to the table, and talk. The fan would benefit further by not having our season ruined. They need to be reminded that we are customers, and we need the ability to remind them we can take our business elsewhere.
donotinteruptMYkungfu
The anti-trust exception should be revoked. Let the better product win
Cosmo2
The sport probably wouldn’t be able to survive like that. The exemption is there for good reason.
bronyaur
I disagree with this claim. The exemption is due to a very, very curious ruling in in the early 1920s in the Federal Baseball case. Oliver Wendell Holme’s opinion held that the Sherman Act did not apply to MLB because it was not interstate commerce. It was upheld in the 1950s in Toolson because the Congress had not decided to legislatively reverse that ruling. The courts did not choose to extend this exemption to the NFL or to boxing. In the Curt Flood case, the court affirmed the exemption, but expressed distaste for it. Bottom line: the exemption was a giant error that has not been overturned by Congress, mostly because of the campaign money flowing to politicians by baseball team owners, and the fact that the Supreme Court – at least up until now – respected precedent and stare decisis.
Jdt8312
It’s not working like this. What right do they have to hold our sport hostage? It’s time they lost the anti-trust exemption. What right does anyone have to tell me I can’t start another professional baseball league? It would be one thing if these guys were in a room daily, trying to work this out. But they don’t have any intentions of getting this CBA worked out before spring training. If the sport couldn’t survive, and I have my doubts about that, without anti trust protection, what is going to happen to it when we all leave because they’re being unreasonable, and not considering their customers?
Cosmo2
Yea, I think I’m confusing what the anti-trust exemption actually is. You’re probably right in what you’re saying. Never mind me on this.
swinging wood
I don’t get how it’s not “out of state commerce” when I’m out of the state of several teams that I’m blacked out from seeing.
bronyaur
Cosmo – all good. The beauty of baseball is that we still have lots of stuff to be able to talk about, even if they aren’t playing.
bronyaur
Anyone – here is a summary of the case that is way more succinctly informative than I could be: oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/259us200
For Love of the Game
Indeed, baseball needs the equivalent of the USFL , the ABA, or the WHA. All defunct. Hard pass!
Jdt8312
Are you saying that you don’t consider college football, basketball, and the like, akin to pro sports? They are being paid now, aren’t they? College football, and basketball rival their pro counterparts for fan attendance, and viewership. You don’t really need another pro football, or basketball league when you have college ball the way we do. College baseball doesn’t compare with those other sports. A new pro baseball league would be good for the fan.
terry g
People blame Manfred and Clark for everything. Neither, is heading the negotiating. Both represent their groups, Manfred is appointed by the owners. He voices their points. Clark is elected by the players and voices their points. Unfortunately, neither represents the fans. oh, and the MLBPA does not represent the minor league players which I think they should.
No talks. No surprise.
bradthebluefish
We need to form the MLBFA – Major League Baseball Fans Association
DBH1969
I think the cities that have these franchises should form an association. The situation would be resolved tomorrow if the cities all banded together and said, ‘Have this resolved by the weekend or all permits will be pulled until 2023″.
I know it is fantasy…. but hey, what good is fantasy if it’s realistic lol
James1955
The government is not perfect.
bronyaur
It’s called Not Spending Your Money. As long as you spend it lavishly on the product via ticket sales, MLBtv, cable, and other stuff, and watch games on TV supported by advertisers, the players and owners will continue to want to extract as much money from fans as legally possible, and then will continue to fight over how to divide that pie.
Rick Pernell
Not one single owner or player has any interest in settling the dispute. No one wants to be the guy in the middle and until the owners and players work to compromise nothing is going to get done.
It’s like Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell. Both sides are too damn stupid to understand that everybody wins with compromise.
VonPurpleHayes
I hate them both. Time for a new sport.
Dunedin020306
If the parties involved were wise, they would at least put forth the effort of appearing to care what the fans think, since the fans are what drive this whole business in the first place. Did they not learn the lesson from the 1994 work stoppage, when the seemingly endless popularity of baseball took a big dip for several years and took a season-long home run contest between Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, and Ken Griffey Jr. in 1998 to fuel a noticeable return of interest in the sport? Both sides should immediately get off their behinds and every weekday, until this debacle is repaired, go back to work like most of us have to do.
bronyaur
Total MLB annual attendance from 1989-1992 was about 55-56 million per year. 1993 saw the entry of two new teams in huge previously unserved markets, and they played in football stadiums. There were about 7 million fans that went to games in MIA and COL that year. Total anomaly that year, and as expected, attendance in both cities fell after their debut season. The strike impacted the number of games played in 1994 and 1995, and the new Baseball Network was unpopular with fans. Attendance in 1996 was still higher than in 1992 at 60 mill fans, of which about 5.6 million were in COL and MIA. I agree that the steroid HR derby had a positive impact on MLB fan interest but so did the absolutely booming economy and the new ESPN contract signed in 1989.
There just is not sufficient evidence for the canard that MLB’s fan base got killed by the 1994-95 work stoppage. As has been demonstrated by some very good empirical economists over the years, Norht American pro leagues have simply not suffered long run negative consequences due to labor stoppages.
Dunedin020306
@bronyaur – Thank you for the information. I had heard again and again over the years that MLB suffered a dip in popularity post 1994 strike, but based on what you shared it appears that oft-repeated claim may not be true.
sjwil1
I would love to give a big FU to both owners and players. To say FU to the owners, opening day (whenever that is) should be a ghost town in every stadium. To say FU to the players, game number two the game should boo the players going onto and off the field every inning.
They both suck and have no problem sticking to us.
I love baseball, don’t love the greed or entitlement
VonPurpleHayes
Actually they should schedule an open Zoom meeting with the public, allowing fans to curse them both out for 2 hours each.
Dunedin020306
@VonPurpleHayes – That is quite creative and thoroughly hilarious!
1fifth2fifthRed5thBlue5th
So are we going to get posts about what players are doing during the lockout? Maybe some guys can go try out for the XFL relaunch.
Bluesman99026
Love the name, love Theodor Geisel! have you ever had a few fingers and tried to say that five times quickly?….hahaha
MLB Top 100 Commenter
You mean, to say “Suess” when “goosed”?
Stormintazz
If Manfred is the primary negotiator for the owners. Place a check mark in the lost column.
BabyBoyBlueDiamond
Happy to see neither side doesn’t seem too interested in taking this seriously. Strikes and lockouts are bad for the sport and its reputation. If a strike occurs, no good comes from it for anyone. Time to get off your high horses, get in the same room, and get this BS done!
slider32
MLB should be able to get an agreement by March1, increases starting salary to 800 thousand, give incentives for 4 plus WAR players, 14 teams playoff, universal DH, injured players don’t count again’st the cap, 120 million ceiling, and 60 million floor. Play Ball!
Badfinger
If there are games on TV, I’ll watch. If not, I’ll find something else to do.
JoeBrady
That’s about my view as well. In the overall scheme of things, it makes little difference if they start on 4/1 or 4/15.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
If they are making progress, they will try to keep it quiet.
If they are making no progress, they may keep it quiet.
So, respectfully, we have no way of knowing when and if pitchers and catchers will report.
Carl. Goldstein
They already have hurt the sport.
No respect for the fans, just their selfish pockets.
JoeBrady
I take this as a positive thing. If things were seriously awry, I think both sides would be scrambling, It’s like the difference between a message from your doctor asking you to call back when you get a chance, or a call saying you have to call back as soon as you get the message. If they aren’t panicking, then there might not be reason for us to panic.
all in the suit that you wear
Joe: That would be nice. I have thought that maybe neither side wants to agree to a deal too quickly because then they might be second guessed for not holding out for more.
Bigtimeyankeefan
By not working on it now, they are boring the mlb fan base. Those who are sports hungry are forced to turn to other sports… sometimes daily baseball NEWS is enough… most people watch football and basketball due to sports betting
swinging wood
“Most” people do not watch those sports because of sports betting. A minority, yes, but not the majority.
ray1
Have to believe the owners won’t let the players back in until after Spring Training was to have started.
hd-electraglide
Well well well, have hotel reservations in Arizona for ST. Doesn’t look that will be happening. Just saw the NFR in Las Vegas. Now there are some true dedicated athletes., they aint worried about no CBA. Would like to think, I could say good bye to baseball, but I’d be lying. After 60+ years of watching, I can’t just forget it. Football, basketball and hockey have lost my attention already. Suggestion: Implement universal DH, do away with league designations, realign teams more regionally, move a couple of teams that are “less appealing” to their fan base to places that would embrace them. Most of all, just get on with playing baseball.
national pastime
They obviously don’t care about the fans never have never will. But like idiots when they finally get around to ending this nonsense we will go to games and watch them on tv. So who are the idiots.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The gas station owners don’t care. I still get gas for my hybrid.
The supermarket owners don’t care. I still buy food.
The shoe store owners don’t care. I don’t walk barefoot.
Do you think Bezos and Musk care? They are so out of touch
that even if they think that they care, their empathy is lessened.
Baseball owners and major league players are nothing better or worse, out for themselves, out of touch.
Baseball is a great game and when it comes back, I will pay my hundred bucks to get almost all out of area games for the year. When the pandemic is completely over, I will take my son to a game or two a year. But the owners and players are not my heroes. My son is my hero. He is only 5, so no pressure on him.
JoeBrady
100% spot-on correct. I never understood this need to be ‘appreciated’. I’ve said this at work before. Someone would thank me effusively for a job I did, and I’d tell them “dude, you pay me. This is what I do for the money”.
seafordraven
The owners and player association do not have the first inkling or care about others who rely on baseball being played so they can make a living.
There are more non-players than there are players that make a living from baseball.
Get back to the table and bargain. Stop being lazy and selfish.
Krombopulous Matthew
All you have to do is go back to negotiations during the shortened 2020 season to know this season isn’t going to be 162 games, if it even happens at all. Both sides aren’t going to budge.
What I’m really looking forward to seeing is whatever Manfred comes up with to “win back fans turned away by the lockout” once we’re finally back to playing ball. You know this is going to happen, and you know it’s going to be something laughably stupid.
Rsox
It took an “Iron Man” streak and steriod fueled Home Run chase last time. Since players don’t even like to play everyday i doubt there will ever be another consecutive games played streak to beat.
So i guess that means get out the rubber baseballs and the syringes and watch the record books get obliterated (again)…
etex211
Manfred and Clark are a couple of fools, especially the 2020 fiasco is still fresh on everybody’s minds.
Robrock30
It’s all about leverage and right now Players aren’t getting paid until the Season starts in April and Owners may be losing ticket sales but not too much until Games get cancelled. So don’t look for anyone to blink until Spring probably or perhaps later.
Maybe we will see replacement Players as we did prior as the Minor Leaguers aren’t in the Bargaining Unit. Several of those prior replacements stuck and had careers.
Manfred and Clark don’t have the best interests of the Game in mind and only care about the interests of who they work for. It’s not like it was back in the Day unfortunately where the Commissioner upheld the Quality and Integrity of the Game.
Sabermetric Acolyte
So basically it’s a game of chicken…
I wonder if I can start getting seriously into college basketball again.
Robrock30
The sides are dug in and everyone knows what the other side wants.
Players want a bigger share of a Business with increasing Revenues.
They were sort of hosed in the Prior CBA everyone is aware of this.
They want to hit FA earlier as the Game has changed and over 30 isn’t desired as it was and the Younger Players are the Stars that Fans want to watch.
Owners want to maximize profits by expanding playoffs & revenue streams and reduce operating costs ( lower salaries, faster Game times, less extra innings, etc. )
Bluesman99026
To mlbh…..Don Mossi….hahaha….love it…..he was in every pack of cards!!…
Orel Saxhiser
…and in every boy’s bicycle spokes.
Bluesman99026
Haha…..front AND back. And at the lemonade stand….here’s your free coaster! Actually met him at a show, very good man.
Orel Saxhiser
Mossi was the only player whose card photo improved with a gum stain across his face (well, him and Andy Etchebarren). You can bet he heard all his teammates’ comments about him being on the all-ugly team.
Seriously, though. My memory of Topps common card players keeps my interest in the game hanging by a thread. It’s the only sport I still follow. Going all-in as a non-sports fan is a possibility.
For Love of the Game
Does anyone else think Andy Etchebarren and Abe Vigoda were brothers? Look at those guys!
Bluesman99026
hahaha….awesome!
mike156
Ouch, Don Mossi….they flooded the market with Don Mossi.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Only about forty players who had 100 wins and 50 saves. But none had ears that looked quite as big. Good for him, not enough people listen anyway.
Orel Saxhiser
Remember Don Sutton’s ears on his early Topps cards?
JoeBrady
Do you remember the Oscar Gamble fro? And there was some dude with these enormous mutton chops whose names escapes me.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Eddie Murray, Goose Gossage, Mike Marshall, Jim Grant, George Culver? For a time, Brian Wilson and Luke Scott.
mike156
Putting aside the exasperation we all must feel, if “what we read in the papers” accurately reflects their respective positions, then there’s no reason to meet right now because they are in different worlds. There will have to be outside factors that will induce them to go back to serious discussions. That might very well be COVID again.
Rsox
The shortsightedness on both sides is thinking they can wait the other out while there are no actual games to miss. The long game unfortunately doesn’t work once you realize that there are only six weeks til Pitchers and Catchers report to spring training. If nothing is accomplished before March 1st there is zero chance we will have Baseball before Memorial Day
Gumby82
Eff this country. Can’t even have baseball anymore.
Orel Saxhiser
What does the country have to do with it? Just yesterday, I learned a boyfriend friend is extremely ill with COVID and probably won’t pull through. Probably gone at 62, though he kind of brought it on himself by choosing not to protect himself. At least two other family member have it, no word on the extent. Don’t blame the country. Blame misguided people who maker stupid decisions for the wrong reasons.
Orel Saxhiser
**boyhood friend, not boyfriend. A San Francisco Giants fan, of all things.
For Love of the Game
Cey, it’s a free country, including the freedom to make poor decisions. I know a number of unvaccinated people who have experienced Covid. A few were to the point of hospitalization, but none died. Most still don’t want the vaccine. I got mine as soon as I was eligible, and boosted.
JoeBrady
I’m on the tail-end of Covid, and I got the two shots from Pfizer as well as the booster.
I don’t understand why everyone just doesn’t get the shot. But I also think everyone is going to get Covid even if they do.
bigdaddyhacks
Golf is way fun, and has none of this bs.
mitchladd
They’re going to screw this up as badly as they did the 2020 season and we’re going to get a shortened season again aren’t we? Which is going to kill a lot of people’s fandom (including mine) maybe permanently.
Orel Saxhiser
I have taken full seasons off before and no longer go to games. The last time my wife and I attended a game in August 2019, we left after the second inning. Of the people in my life, none are sports fans. Most people don’t follow sports.
Sometimes, I think I hang onto baseball to ward off boredom. Now I’m finding stuff that not only keep me busy, but make me happier. Listening to music (so many good things going on), writing, reading, finding new things to do as opposed to follow. There’s life beyond baseball.
badco44
Money is the root of all evil and Baseball is just plain greedy… get your act together guys before you ruin things for everyone
swinging wood
*The love of money is the root of all evil.
prov356
badco44
1 Timothy 6:10 – “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
This is one of the most misquoted bible verses. Money is not evil. It’s the worship of money in place of God that leads to evil.
Orel Saxhiser
Bible: For the love of money is the root of all evil.
Preacher on Sunday: The collection baskets are coming around. Please show your love of God by contributing all that you can.
God: I am now set up for PayPal.
prov356
Cey hey – Tithing is the exact opposite of the love of money. The bible is very clear on tithing and it’s purpose. Again, your comment suggests money itself is evil and it is not. You quoted right but interpreted wrong.
Orel Saxhiser
Why do Bible-thumping churches preach the worship of money is wrong, then shake people down for money? There are better things people can do with their hard-earned cash than give it away in the name of superstition. Most adults who grew up with religion learn this eventually. Some are just too embarrassed to admit they fell for it.
prov356
Cey Hey – I don’t know what a “bible-thumping church” is. My faith is based on God’s word, which is the bible. We obviously come from very different perspectives. I’d love to have a conversation with you about my faith, which is different from religion. But this is a baseball site. Hit me up and we can figure out a way to chat off line if you’re interested.
Orel Saxhiser
Thanks, but not interested. I don’t base my life on words from a book of unknown origin. No one should need a guidebook for living.
Bluesman99026
I am right with you brother, prov356…AMEN!
Don’t even bite on that trash!
If it’s not between those beautiful covers, it is not truth!
prov356
Cey Hey – Just one point of correction. The origin of the bible is thoroughly documented. I respect your position on what you believe. I love the historic aspect of the bible and the science that backs it up. It’s really fascinating and it has only strengthened my faith as I’ve studied the science of it.
prov356
Thanks Bluesman – God Bless you brother.
Bluesman99026
God’s infinite blessings to you and yours brother. Your name here happens to be one of my favorites. Add …..@msn.com to my name, drop me a line.
JoeBrady
Cey Hey
Why do Bible-thumping churches preach the worship of money is wrong, then shake people down for money?
=======================
I am quite certain there rotten apples in this basket, but for the most part, what you said is pretty inaccurate.
Around here, the first 8% of your donation goes to support the regional school system, and most of those kids are poor. The next 8% goes to support churches too poor to support themselves.
One of the churches I worked for had a soup kitchen for AIDS victims, Another supported low-income housing with its own land. Another helped run a park cleanup in the South Bronx. My own church runs a Thanksgiving Day luncheon for all the seniors in the neighborhood that might have no other place to go. I have a thousand of these stories if you want them.
prov356
Nice JoeBrady. We visited a church yesterday that reported they were able to give $130,000 in 2021 to overseas missions to help poor third world communities. That’s one of hundreds of stories I have too.
JoeBrady
“The origin of the bible is thoroughly documented. ”
====================
The great thing is, what difference does it make? No one has to believe that Bible is historically accurate, and that Jesus is divine. If ‘love your enemy as yourself’ appeals to you, it makes no difference what the source is.
JoeBrady
I’m very fortunate. One of my career goals was to have a job in a non-for-profit before I retired. These churches support AA meetings, senior citizen clubs, CYO teams to keep kids off the streets, the local AAU teams play at Catholic gyms, etc.
JoeBrady
“No one should need a guidebook for living.”
If that was true, I’m not sure this country would have almost half the people with diabetes and pre-diabetic.
32.5% 0f adults are overweight, and another 36.5 are obese.
JoeBrady
Prov 356
If the love of money is the root of all evil (I agree), the lack of money probably is a close second.
prov356
Well said JoeBrady! I’ve seen that in action first hand.
HalosHeavenJJ
Neither side even pretending to try. They met for all of seven minutes on the final day.
talkingjunky
No rush guys.
Old York
Fine. Plenty of independent and minor leagues out there to watch. Even some of the beer leagues can be fun to watch.
leftykoufax
Too busy in the Hamptons or Aspen.
prov356
All the fan threats to leave baseball are silly. No one commenting on this site will stop watching baseball. The owners and players will also not leave baseball. We will have a season. Don’t fall victim of the hype.
getright11
Wanna bet?
prov356
Yes, yes I do.
Orel Saxhiser
You overstate the value of sports in people’s lives. Other stuff to do.
getright11
Million dollars sound OK? Ill send my Venmo.
prov356
I keep my bets to one dollar. What’s your Venmo? Of course you’ll have to prove to me that you have completely wiped baseball from your life before I surrender my dollar.
Orel Saxhiser
I’ll wipe it from my life and let getright11 collect on it. And i would be able to prove it. What proof would you want?
prov356
It’s impossible to prove a negative, Cey Hey, so it is a moot point. But I respect anyone who states they will take a stand and actually takes it without compromise. I always teach my kid that you have to decide what you believe and then act like you believe it.
JoeBrady
Of course there is other stuff to do, which is why I don’t understand the drama. Whatever I do between the SB and opening day will stay the same, even if opening day is moved.
Orel Saxhiser
How is not watching baseball a negative? MLB doesn’t need my money and I don’t have to give them any. For me, there are things I prefer to spend my entertainment dollar. Music, both recorded and live, will always come first. I have sat out baseball as recently as 2015 (second half of season) and 2016 (entire season) due to having more important stuff on my plate (the sale of our house and ultimate return home). I started up again after we moved, I guess because I was working less.
Proof? Send someone to our house to prove we don’t have a TV set (we stopped watching in October 2007). Confirm that I no longer have an MLB.TV, subscription for my computer. Receipts for the sale of my baseball books and ’60s baseball cards I still own. The cards will soon be gone.
prov356
Cey Hey – I think you misunderstood the cliche of “you can’t prove a negative”. That doesn’t mean that watching baseball is a negative. It means that it’s not possible for someone to prove that they don’t do something.
Cosmo2
I left football for certain reasons. I think a lot of fans did.
getright11
It took me 5 years to return from the last lockout in 94. I doubt I come back from another one if any time is missed. I’ve become disinterested in NBA, NFL in recent years, and not being dramatic, but I can’t see myself returning to MLB if they lock out any portion of 2022.
johnnybadd2019
What else is there to care about in the summer wnba?
twinky
This greed on both sides needs to get resolved very soon. Why should anyone even watch these brats play? You can hardly afford to go to a game anymore. There is no reason professional sports is a business, but we try to view it as a family sport. It’s ridiculous! Figure it out or lose a lot of your fan base!
SvenMo92
They need to seriously look at trimming the season back. 162 is a grind for players and fans. Move the mound back slightly..something tangible..
Orel Saxhiser
I don’t disagree re the shorter schedule. The problem would be the two sides agreeing on how it would affect existing contracts. Yet another money squabble to endure.
slowcurve
Starting to hate both these clowns.
cheapgm4hire
I think fans need to start having a seat at the table demanding lower ticket, parking, and concessions prices.
Mynameisnoname
Baseball is the worst sport to gamble on and now they are alienating those fans with mild interest and aging demographics.
Yikes.
Appalachian_Outlaw
There hasn’t been time for negotiations. Manfred was upset Ken Rosenthal wrote “mean” things about his job performance, so priority one was getting Mr. Rosenthal off of MLB network. Now that Rosenthal’s contract has expired, Manfred is free to negotiate without the scrutiny of his nemesis.
athleticsdilly
What on earth are they waiting for? Good god almighty. No faith in either side of this dispute.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
Get er goin
philjg73
Get rid of Manfred
Mynameisnoname
If they’re going to treat this so casually, why not just rock, paper, scissors?
johnnybadd2019
Maybe they need to get rid of both Manfred and Clark
nukeg
NO WAY do I let Manfred and Clark skew my love for baseball. The game is wayyyyy bigger than these douchebags.
I coach both of my boys in Little League and we talk about baseball daily. We talk about the Curse of the Bambino, how awesome Kirby Puckett was, and what the heil the Philly Phanatic is…
These clowns will come and go but my love for the game will never die.
Polish Hammer
Two clowns.
yanks2323
Manfred’s letting go of Rosenthal for expressing his opinion is a joke. I would expect some lawsuit to happen here. The current commissioner is not good for baseball and is not far behind the worst commissioner in the major sports leagues in Gary Bettman! Further, did these as$hats not learn anything from the strike in 1994 and how many fans it lost.
Redwolves3
Manfred needs to concentrate on getting the CBA resolved instead of firing Rosenthal because he was criticized for job performance.