On the heels of the MLB Players Association’s economics proposal this afternoon, Major League Baseball is preparing to make some form of counteroffer tomorrow. That’ll mark the first back-to-back negotiating sessions since the league instituted a lockout on December 2. Even as negotiations may finally be picking up steam, various reports characterized today’s meeting as contentious.
Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet adds some context to the continued tension, reporting (on Twitter) that the league expressed a willingness to accept the forfeiture of regular season games as the lockout drags on. MLB continues to maintain hope about reaching a new collective bargaining agreement on time to play a full schedule, but today’s session was the first at which owners outwardly maintained their willingness to lose games, according to Nicholson-Smith. Evan Drellich of the Athletic writes that some on the players’ side believed the league’s message amounted to a threat. For its part, MLB pushed back against that notion, with a league spokesman telling Drellich the league’s message was “mischaracterized and not a fair representation of the discussion.”
Even if MLB indeed suggested it was amenable to the possibility of losing games, that’d hardly be surprising. Admitting it’s unwilling to face the possibility of losing games would deal a blow to the league’s negotiating leverage, after all. As the scheduled start to the season gets closer, both MLB and the MLBPA are incentivized to overstate to one another their resolution to hold out for concessions from the other party.
It remains to be seen whether MLB’s alleged rhetoric proves to be anything more than a negotiating ploy. The league would stand to lose gate revenue for cancelation of games during Spring Training. More meaningfully, it’d face the loss of both gate and broadcast revenue for canceled regular season contests. A work stoppage carrying into the regular season, in particular, might also deal an incalculable blow to fan morale that could persist beyond eventual agreement on a new CBA.
In November, Commissioner Rob Manfred drew a distinction between an offseason work stoppage and one that ultimately results in game cancelations. “I can’t believe there’s a single fan in the world who doesn’t understand that an offseason lockout that moves the process forward is different than a labor dispute that costs games,” Manfred told reporters at the time, shortly before the lockout began.
Yet even if it’s an unsurprising tack, it’s at least somewhat notable MLB has seemingly taken the step of declaring their willingness to accept the financial consequences of losing games for the first time. Players are obviously facing financial pressures of their own. Players aren’t compensated for Spring Training, so their potential lost revenue doesn’t loom quite as imminent as that of owners. Canceled regular season games — and the forfeiture of salaries for those contests — would be a far more notable development. The MLBPA has set aside an undisclosed amount of funding for players in case a work stoppage lingers into the season, but there’s no doubt that’d prove far less lucrative than the salaries players would receive if gameplay were to proceed as scheduled.
The regular season is currently set to begin on March 31. It is generally expected that a new CBA would need to be in place by around the beginning of March in order for the regular season to begin on time. That’d leave around a month for teams to conduct their remaining offseason business and for players to report and build up during an abbreviated Spring Training period.
I mean, at some point they’d have to, and I’d doubt they’d just cave to all the union demands to get in all 162. as much as that sucks to hear, losing some games will probably hurt less than a bad CBA will.
Like it was said all over the media today, the owners don’t make anything in April at the gate, so cancelling a block of games is far more detrimental to the players.
I hafta admit, I’m very surprised Tony didn’t reference 2020 as proof that owners care only about postseason games and not regular season games.
It was less than two years ago when MLB intentionally dragged out negotiations and fought for only a 60-game regular season and expanded postseason, while the players union fought for more regular season games. Of course the union had no choice but to bow down and accept a 60-game season.
Early season games, especially in April, are basically meaningless to owners. Attendance is low because of the weather and lack of importance in the games, and ratings are low because you’ve got NHL and NBA playing their most important games of the season at the same time.
I called May 4th as a lockout end date, and I’m sticking with that prediction. I think we’ll see a 100-120 game regular season. Hope I’m wrong, but the owners don’t have much to lose if the lockout doesn’t end before May.
The owners dragged out? We’re still in an epidemic.
April games aren’t meaningless. The only way that’d be true is if those games literally didn’t count.
What you actually mean is, those games don’t have an immediately apparent effect on the outcome of the regular season.
All players were given the option to opt out of the season but very few did and there were no fans. Owners cared only about the money they were saving.
No he is saying those games don’t affect their finances in a meaningful way. Money is all what the season of negotiation is about now. Nobody is concerned about wins, losses, honor, tradition, sunny afternoon games, boxscores or cold beer. It’s just the money that means something in this context.
MLB intentionally dragged out negotiations and fought for only a 60-game regular season
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Since there were no fans, I’m not sure this is a meaningful comparison. It would be like opening a grocery store and paying all your workers, even though you won’t have customers that day.
Different context. There weren’t going to be any fans in the stands for those games. At the same time, why would they want to lose the TV revenue? There was probably a cost-benefit analysis done that determined diminishing return for more regular season games during the shortened season.
But why would the owners only care about the postseason if a majority of their teams don’t reach the playoffs?
Pandemic
The delay is definitely effecting the season ticket and advanced ticket sales. They keep trying to sell me, but I’m not buying until I know there will be games.
Tell that to the 50-60K NFL fans that have packed the stadium every week even during the peak of delta and omicron. By April covid will be negligible unless another strain is invented.
If I visited a grocery store and it was closed just because they didn’t expect to have enough customers that day, it is a reflection of how that store is run and I’m not going back.
They only have the fans to lose….
Thx Dr FowChi⚾️
That’s a factually inaccurate argument. Owners get paid for tv rights, meaning every game on tv would have generated them money. Just not as much money as tv plus gate.
I might be wrong but I believe that players get no percentage of TV revenue from post season games (vs gate revenue), and that as part of the national tv revenue, that postseason tv revenue is divided (not sure if equally) among the owners including those that did not make the playoffs
Increasingly, the national tv revenue is significantly greater than the gate revenue.
So, by expanding playoffs, mlb can increase their national tv revenue which purely helps ownership (across the board) and not nearly as beneficial to the playoff-qualifying players who see a smaller increase from increased gate revenue.
But all of this is purposefully convoluted and obscured bc ownership deliberately wants to keep fans in the dark about how much money they make so that we instead attack players for being “greedy.”
@feveredpitch I am surprised that you don’t know that Tony is not involved in the negotiations. That would be Bruce Meyer, the guy the MLBPA hired in September 2018 to handle all labor negotiations.
The MLBPA didn’t “bow down” in 2020. They did the legal thing and filed a grievance with the NLRB, the federal agency that handles labor law related issues. What the owners did in the 2020 season is still a pending case with the NLRB and a ruling has been postponed until after these CBA negotiations. The MLBPA is asking for a $500 million settlement and there is a good chance they win that case. The players agreed to a shortened season because of the restrictions in place for COVID. None of those restrictions are in place now and all 30 teams finished the 2021 season playing before as many fans as would buy a ticket.
Other than the playoffs, the highest attendance during the regular season is in the 1st two weeks of the season when teams are playing in their home opening series.
The owners will not get away with paying the players for a partial season if they keep them locked out past opening day. Federal labor laws and the past CBA, the one under which all current contracts were signed, says that while Manfred can set the season length at any length he chooses, that # of games constitutes a full season and whatever the contract is for the players are owed 100% of their contracted salary.
The owners start losing TV money on February 26th, the first day a game was scheduled to be televised. They start losing huge TV dollars on March 31st.
When you realize that fans in the stands only makes up around 30% of the revenue teams receive and that 2/3 of their revenue is from TV, you get the fact that every game that is costing the owners a large percentage of their revenue. Unlike in 2020 when the TV contracts were guaranteed because of COVID, the networks are not paying for games that are lost due to the owners locking out the payers or for a strike.
The owners have something HUGE to lose. if they drag their feet in negotiations. 2/3 of their revenue while still having bills to pay along with fans goodwill.
It took steroids to save baseball after the last labor issues in 1994. A few more home runs won’t save it if the owners mess this one up. It will take a long time to recover from.
neo – Yes, thank you.
Joe – It’s the same concept. If your expenses are the same, but your revenue is lower, then you lose money or don’t make as much money. I could easily pull attendance figures for April and compare to June thru September, leaving out the home opener bump because like you said it will always be there no matter what month the home opener is in.
As for television, when you’re competing with the NHL and NBA in April of course your ratings will be down. If NESN has a Bruins game at the same time the Sox are playing, it’s the Sox who get bumped from the main channel. That’s because it’s only natural to have fans of both teams watching NBA/NHL late regular season or playoff games instead of early season baseball games.
Sold out crowds for home opening plus merchandise is not making money? I’m lost!
to4
Sold out crowds for home opening plus merchandise is not making money? I’m lost!
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1-Not every day is opening day. In 2019, Detroit got 42,641. By the following Tuesday, it was 12,114. And the actual attendance was probably even lower.
2-The first available game is always opening day. If they postponed opening day until April 28, then they will get their 42,641 on April 28, instead of their scheduled opening day. I usually take opening day off. Taking off April 28 is probably a lot better than March 31st, since should be at least 5 degrees warmer.
Sold out for opening day then the next game 75% of the teams will get about 10,000 or so fans so show up. After opening day the average to bad teams don’t get many fans in April.
Then according to you. Why play any April games? Same for September I assume ? ⚾️
Every year the highest attendance in the regular season is the opening series. For every team.
Tuesdays have the lowest attendance for every team.
The Tigers were awful in 2019 and were expected to lose over 100 games after losing 98 the year before. They still drew a sellout for their home opener vs the Royals, another bad team that was coming off a 104 loss season, even though they only drew 1.5. million for the entire season.
Pads – I enjoy reading your posts as they are well written, and I’ll reply to your others. But for now I have to point out you’re way wrong on home openers.
As others have pointed out, every team has a home opener regardless of when the first game is played. If they start playing in June this year, they will have their home openers in June.
Also, I have firsthand knowledge of what some teams do to pump up their home opener attendance. In a nutshell, they practically and sometimes literally give away thousands of tickets for Game #1.
I’ve seen it in cities like Toronto and Tampa. They have promotions, buy a ticket to 4 regular season games and get a ticket to the home opener for free. Or they donate thousands of home opener tickets to local schools and charities. It’s the one game each year when every team feels that having a full house is a must, and they do whatever they have to in order to fill the seats. That’s why they’ll have official “sellouts” even though the capacity is thousands of seats more than the official attendance, because they stopped including complimentary/donated tickets in their attendance figures.
This is clear evidence the players are under far more pressure than the owners. I don’t think the owners really lose much money by missing regular season games. The early games are just as valuable as the late games for the players. The longer the lockout lasts the less time players have to negotiate contracts which is another win for the owners.
My guess is that the owners might even want the season delayed a little bit. Cut into Spring Training at least. All they really have to do is make a pretty fair offer and not cave into the players. Then they will have the ability to just wait the other side out and see how long it takes for some of the less wealthy players to get tired of losing paychecks and become willing to sign something to get the income flowing in again.
The owners will lose some money but not as much as the players. Every owner has enough money in their bank account to be able to very comfortably afford to miss some income. A lot of players don’t and they will be losing even more income than the owners. The math says a lot of the players will cave before the owners or at least go broke holding out before the owners do.
I’m certainly not rooting for this. I’m just pointing it out because some people were trying to claim a few weeks ago that “the owners are under more financial pressure than the players.” That’s simply not true. The owners will lose less money than the players by missing early games and they start off with more money in the first place.
Please Hammer, I tend to agree with you here. The owners are still getting merchandise revenue, those that own their stadiums are still getting events booked in them and the list continues. Many owners only have their investment in their team (company) as one of many in their portfolio while many players (just like the rest of workers) are 80% if not more vested in their working paycheck.
The owners get a very small percentage of merchandise revenue. Most of that goes to the players. 100% of which since 2018 has been going into a fund to help out players in need during these CBA negotiations.
Only 7 teams get revenue from events that are held in the stadiums in which they play. 23 teams are leasing their stadiums from whoever the government agency is that runs it. Those teams still have to pay that lease and whatever maintenance they are contractually obligated to pay even if they are not having games.
Most revenue for owners comes from TV. That revenue is gone the moment there are no games to televise.
On the other side of the coin, players do not get paid for the offseason or spring training. They only get paid once the regular season starts and get their first check in Mid-April. Until then they are losing no money.
What the commissioner totally doesn’t get is that fans don’t give ONE WHIT about the billionaire owners making more money; they already soak the fans at the gate, they almost all used our tax dollars to build their stadiums, they are rich beyond belief, and they charge $7.50 for a beer. Get real, commissioner. All we see is GREED and a casual attitude for the impact on fans.. And frankly, it pisses us off.
And what ticks my wife off the most is greedy players. those that want to demand 30 million a year (and over half of them get 20+) and that is the top 10% of them.when my cousin in his 12 yr career got 20 and turned that into a lifelong accounting to make a real fortune and there are others like him too.;. We don’t feel sorry for any of them on both sides except for the kids!
Greedy players? No one is telling the owners to sign the so called Greedy players. If the owners didn’t have the money they wouldn’t be giving out the big contracts unless they are horrible businessmen.
Over half of them get over 20 million????
You put your finger on something so obvious that it shouldn’t even have to be mentioned. Ownership created a labor system that gives them artificially controlled salaries on players before they reach free agency and then disincentivizes them from spending as much as they might otherwise for those free agents. Then ownership gets to hide their own profits. And still, the problem is the “greedy players”?
The 43rd highest paid player is Starling Marte, New York Mets: $19.5 million. So much for over half making 20+.
@baseball1010: I’m not totally certain. But I believe he meant over half of the players who demand $30 million AAV end up recieving at least $20 million AAV. Not over half of all players in MLB. He said, “those that want to demand 30 million a year (and over half of them get 20+). I took it to mean over half of all the players who ask for 30 and don’t get it still get over 20. I had to reread it myself to figure that out but I believe that’s what gwell55 means. That’s what it would have to mean to be accurate because I would think most of the guys who ask for 30 get at least 20.
$7.50 Beer at a ball park? That’s a deal!
Your wife is terribly misinformed. The majority of players make at or near the major league minimum because the teams get to set their salary or are still arbitration eligible. 310 of them last season made the minimum or a salary under $1.5 million. That is 34% of the players.
There were 41 players, out of about 900 that had at least a cup of coffee in the majors, that made more than $20 million in 2021. Not even 1.5 per team. Obviously that is far less than “over half of them” you claim in your comment. Less than a dozen that made $30 million last season. IF you were in the top 12 out of 7 billion on the planet at your job you would make exceptional money too. How much did your wife’s favorite actor make last year? I bet it was at least that much.
Season tickets, TV and radio money are all paid for in April. Losing money I seriously doubt!
Season ticket renewals are usually paid in October or November of the previous year. If there are no games, that money has to be refunded.
TV contracts are not guaranteed and are not paid in April. TV games start on February 26th this season, so that is the day the owners start losing money. TV makes up 2/3 of the revenue for those owners, so they will be losing huge amounts of revenue while still having expenses.
The Dodgers wanted our money in September. They keep moving the deadline to pay earlier, because they can.
It would be nice to see the owners cave to one of the union’s demands. That might get the two sides to make serious progress. The players made a concession today with the free agency age. Now, it is the owners turn. Both sides have to give things up to end this. Threatening to cancel games isn’t a good negotiation tactic. It is an intimidation tactic that is just going to anger the players.
The ones which many here want to see the owners cave on are ones targeting so called small market teams, which I also think should be the ones most easily agreed upon.. Raising the cap by a significant amount, small market teams stop being supported by larger market teams… just 2 which were gone over earlier today on this site.
Seems changing FA has been done away with. focus on those other 2 and get an agreement done.
it’s not caving. They already know which alternatives are more acceptable but simply don’t believe the time is right to pull the trigger. To start too early in their view might make it harder to achieve their end game plan that is already laid out. Many negotiations don’t get moving until each side begins to feel threatened.
Don’t forget the players invented the 6 years of control. They designed it to limit the number of young free agents stars in order to drive up the price. Supply and Demand, very smart long term strategy.
The only reason it’s back on the table is to bring attention to the service manipulation, which they hate, of course.
Precisely. In a negotiation the kind of tactics used actually matter. Ownership started out by stating that the purpose of the lockout was to put pressure on the players. It was a bad place to start a negotiation as it reflects bad faith. It doesn’t sound like the faith is getting any better.
On what planet is it a “concession” that the players retreated on the FA age thing? They already agreed to it as it stands now. “Give us more $ and we’ll agree to an earlier FA age (that we negotiated/agreed to in good faith you are opposed to so we can make more $ earlier even though that is completely a win – win for us ” Sorry players need to get real – unfortunately for them their leadership is weak and in dire need of a change at the top.
A concession would have been moving it to seven years. It was not a concession. It was accepting status quo.
It is a concession if you give up on one of your stated goals for a new CBA. The previous one is no longer active.
Exactly. Lose a few million now to make a billion over the length of the deal is a no brainer
Let the cities/regions take over the teams. Taxpayers already pay for stadiums, development around stadiums, roads, sewer systems, other infrastructure, giving free taxpayer cash to sociopathic owners who don’t care about the teams. Baseball is already “socialist”, so now taxpayers cut out the owners, hire GMs & execs and collect TV cash to pay for stadiums, etc while distributing cash to players.
yeah that aint gonna happen
Talk to Packers fans about how “ain’t happening”! LOL
That’s one team in a relatively small market, though the team has a nationwide fan base. It’s hard to say that model could be replicated for teams throughout North America in the major sports leagues.
I mean it could happen. The governments would have to buy the teams from willing sellers though. They couldn’t just steal the businesses from owners who paid billions to buy them. That would be hella-illegal and probably unconstitutional. Can you imagine if you bought a bank and then the state or county showed up and said they were stealing your bank from you because they paid to build the highway that your bank sits on? Owning property and owning the business that runs out of that property are 2 very different things. Just because you build a stadium it doesn’t mean a free MLB team will automatically show up and you get to own that business without buying it. The teams usually cost way more than the stadiums.
That sounds easy. Simply dissolve all of MLB, player contracts, TV contracts, management, the associations and then broker new teams and a new league through city municipalities, and create a new department in each city’s government to manage that. And be stuck in lawsuits for the next 30 years.
Eminent domain? Not happening and how many Cities/regions could afford the cost and risk?
The Green Bay Packers are the only community-owned team in the major league in the US. Instead of having one owner or a small group of owners, they are owned by thousands of fans – 360,584 stockholders to be exact.
Trog’s comments were “tongue in cheek,” I believe.
My bad if it was.
You really think government run anything is a good idea? Have you not learned anything the last 20 years? Never been to a dmv?
He says as he: rides on gov-paid roads, trains, buses, planes while collecting Social Security and a pension backed by the federal gov. which, while also backing his mortgage, pays for his VA treatment while securing the border and protecting the country, as he flushes his toilet into the sewer system, turns on the lights from an energy system built by the government’s cash, gets his vaccines against various disease, uses the internet to post clichés pushed by Qrazy right-wingers who whine about the “Socialism” of child labor laws, food safety laws, clean water & air laws, national parks, education systems and taxpayer-paid for baseball teams.. LOL.
You seriously have zero concept of how much you just mentioned being due to private industry
publicly funded stadium in Oakland or Las Vegas
The Green Bay Packers are the only community-owned team in the major league in the US. Instead of having one owner or a small group of owners, they are owned by thousands of fans – 360,584 stockholders to be exact.
One correction, Ga. “Taxpayer-paid,” not “government paid.” The government has no money except what it borrows and what taxpayers provide.
While it is practical to have some things managed collectively like roads and defense, I would challenge you to name anything else the government does better that the private sector.
I thought this site was for baseball too.
And pronouns on his social media pages.
The government is the people isn’t it? I mean none of the people in government are foreign nationals that are taking it over. Its us. It is made up of Americans like you and I. Don’t like how it works? Then go to work inside of the government and get it changed. Replace the people you don’t like. Run for office. Or just vote. Most people don’t. Its your responsibility and mine.
The Green Bay Packers are the only community-owned team in the major league in the US. Instead of having one owner or a small group of owners, they are owned by thousands of fans – 360,584 stockholders to be exact.
Thanks for sharing that Ga. I wasn’t convinced the first 14 times you copied and pasted your quote. BUT the 15th time has won me over.
As for the wonderful things govt does (according to your post):.
1. My roads are a mess. Potholes everywhere. No trains here but we do have highly inconvenient buses.
2. Govt doesn’t own airlines. They do manage airports. Maybe you want to hold airports and the TSA up as models of efficiency?
3. I’ve been applying for SS for my son now for almost a year. What should be a simple case has been the most drawn-out process imaginable.
4. My pension is a private 401K. Just like most American’s.
5. I work for a bank. WE do the heavy lifting. Not the government.
I mean I could go on and on but if your broader argument is that Government typically runs things so well that we want them running our professional sports teams I doubt you will find a lot of backers.
Don’t forget how well run our postal system is run by big government, right?
If Benjamin Franklin wasn’t already dead this comment would have killed him.
Banks? The clowns who made all those bad mortgages and brought on the Great Recession before crying for government bailouts while still giving their execs big bonuses?
The postal service was run exceptionally well. Any operational losses were from having to fully fund the pension system for 70 years. Something no business or government agency has to do. That changed starting in 2017. Now it is very poorly run and unfortunately the political appointee put in place as Postmaster General by the previous administration cannot just be fired. .
I don’t know, have you ever tried working with a customer service for a phone company, cable company, or tech company? Ever been employed for minimum wage at a retailer or warehouse? It ain’t all roses on the private side….
Oh yeah, cities that can’t handle their own budgets can run a stadium. GREAT idea.
Yet they manage to give the owners cash for stadiums, development, sewers, roads, rail, tax breaks..all while: flushing your turds, lighting your home (a mortgage subsidized by the feds), collecting your garbage, providing you a hospital bed and vaccines against a myriad of diseases, allowing you to ride in buses, subways, rail, on roads, educate? you, protect water and air and food and …LOL
I can’t say I agree with everything here, but seeing ‘flush your turds’ on MLBTR gets an upvote from me.
Holy geez. Again, most of these are private industry practices, not government. The misinformation on what gov’t actually does is staggering.
That’s not true for every team
And you who say: the gov. doesn’t do anything, or cities would have to create a new dept. No, cities already deal with teams — that is how owners get free stadiums, land, water, sewer, trains, roads, etc. Same people dealing with owners for cities hire a GM & other execs and those same people who run teams now run the teams (minus owners getting the cash to buy UK soccer teams or yachts, or presidents.). Now the money from TV flows back to the teams, cities, fans, players. And if you hate “gov”, please stop: using roads, bridges, internet, hospitals, vaccines, schools, sewers, energy systems, Social Security, VA, pensions (even “private” are backed by gov), clean air and water, national and state and city parks, safe food, money for black lung victims, money for disabled, workers comp, subsidies on your mortgage, everything you use that you have no clue comes from we the people — the gov.
Your first proposal about cities controlling the teams was laughable, but seemed innocent enough. Your three responses where you say the exact same thing (and conveniently leave out where a lot of the money for those services comes from) cement your utter derangement. A+
publicly funded stadium in Oakland or Las Vegas
Yes indeed I am the deranged, and the gov is the enemy. So go ahead and stop following “socialized” MLB or: The Green Bay Packers are the only community-owned team in the major league in the US. Instead of having one owner or a small group of owners, they are owned by thousands of fans – 360,584 stockholders to be exact.
You do realize that owning stock in the Packers does not give you any say in the running of the team, no ownership rights, and no share of any profits? It is essentially a way of keeping the team in GB and additional stock sales have been a way of raising capital for improvements. Works for GB, but it was established before the NFL became big money.
It’s worked pretty well for the Green Bay packers
There is a middle ground. Let publicly traded fan-owned IPOs take over for the teams where the owners leech off of the monopoly to get equity increases and siphon off television and internet revenue without spending even half of that revenue on player contracts.
Or pass legislation that bans taxpayer subsidies of sports stadiums if the season starts late.
Packers show the way: The Green Bay Packers are the only community-owned team in the major league in the US. Instead of having one owner or a small group of owners, they are owned by thousands of fans – 360,584 stockholders to be exact.
Everyone should quit whining. My advice: if you want baseball, go play baseball. If you can’t, go watch in your neighborhood, or highlights. If you can’t, then you have bigger problems in your life.
First world problems these days..
GA:. please stop with the same post. Everyone knows the Packers are owned by the public. Wellington Mara, then the Giants owner set the stage for the NFL sharing revenue. That and a cap are the reasons why it works in Green Bay.
Why not do that for every business? The taxpayers should own everything! I mean, we pay for the sewer system
I’ve been saying this for years. Honestly, what do owners actually contribute to the team/game? They just siphon off revenue to pay back the ridiculous amounts they spent acquiring the team in the first place. Just a casino for them.
Sounds like you’re missing out on the gravy train!
They pay people to play a game, and an opportunity for fans to watch. It’s not a charity. We only have ourselves to blame, no one else.
You don’t understand the concept of “investors” right?
You take away private capital investments and the economy crumbles.
@Ga Except at Wrigley where the Ricketts paid for every thing themselves. Illinois is way too screwed up/bankrupt to help even if they wanted to.
Government owned and operated sports teams.? You can’t be serious, unless you approve of their track record of corruption, inefficiency, incompetence, cronyism, extortion, fraud and occasional mayhem.
Fans: manfred youre doing stuff thats ruining the game
Manfred: i did it and ill fkn do it again
Fans: wait what?
Yeah, why is Manfred doing what he wants instead of taking his orders the owners?
Yeah, why is manfred listening to owners instead of making sure they dont lose money due to their own hubris? Why isnt manfred reminding them how they never financially recovered from the 2020 no fans in seats? Why isnt manfred telling them they lose money (fans and tv deal revenue) if games arent played?
Do you listen to your boss? Your boss is the one signing your checks, so your boss is who makes the decisions.
Manfred: play baseball & make a fantastic living.
Union: we want more, because we, I mean they.. deserve more.
Owners: good luck with that.
Player A: I just want to play ball.
Player B: I will not play baseball.
Two sides to every coin, everyone.
Union, Owners, Manfred: okay tbd, no deal.
Fans: if baseball isnt back theyll probably lose me and lose fans they struggled to gain after the 94 lockout
Manfred: oh fkn well
Fans: ight fam imma head out.
Manfred: k, thankfully we have a choice, and it’s purely entertainment. Have fun with your free time. Ps, we’re not related.
Empty Stadiums: WHY WONT ANYONE LOVE ME
Local public parks: welcome back smiling faces!
government won’t let ya fill……………..
Nothing says “good will for the MLBPA making concessions today”, like the owners responding with a willingness to axe games and paychecks. What dumb timing to leak that bit of propaganda.
Will the players lose salary necessarily? It’s not a given it will be prorated from what i understand
That would seem to be the leverage in canceling games.
The players lose nothing from a shorter season. Their contracts are guaranteed regardless of the # of games in the season.
All they lose is when they receive their first paycheck. That would be in mid-April.
2020 was unprecedented because the players agreed to take prorated salaries because of COVID. It had not happened since the very first CBA even their hadd been other lockouts and strikes. No excuse in 2022 and the players would not agree to it again without something like everything be shut down by COVID.
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What dumb timing to leak that bit of propaganda.
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You have no idea why the owners are doing this. It is less than good optics for sure, but it could also be them sending a message to the players that they’re glad to lose April.
Joe. No one wants games to be lost but games in April will hurt players more than owners. Many games get cancelled due to weather in April yet the players get their full salary whether or not they are later made up (99% of course are). Baseball is primarily concerned with their national baseball deal which is focused on the playoffs. This will get settled, probably by mid-March the latest.
Not true. Owners start losing money with the first lost games. Players don’t lose a paycheck until mid-April and even then whatever amount of games are played constitutes a full season and they get paid 100% of their contracts.
The only time that didn’t take place was when players AGREED to a pro-rated salary because of COVID. It has never happened before and the players sure are not going to agree to it when those games were lost because of a lockout.
Not even close. Everyone with half a brain realizes why the owners are saying that. In fact, just read the articles before you comment and you too would know why.
Negotiating position. The owners cannot say, “Woe is me. I lose lots of money if we don’t have games. We must get this done soon so I don’t lose my shorts.” Publicly they have to say, “either we get what we want or we will lose games and we are ok with that.”
Even then a willingness to lose games in April is not a desire to lose games in April. The owners are not stupid and most billionaires employ the most qualified people they can find. They know what the cost of losing games would be both short term and long term.
Fans and taxpayers ultimately pay the bills. Completely losing the goodwill of the fans and taxpayers by looking like you are not negotiating in good faith would cost the owners huge amounts of money. They saw that in 1994. I doubt they are egomaniacs enough to make that mistake again at the cost of billions. .
What a load….
Fire Manfraud.
You’d have to fire the owners first. I’m ready to see that, but are you?
Fire the owners? Without them they’d be no games. Players are easily replaced. Finding billionaires willing to invest in MLB is far more challenging. It’s the owners that assume all the risk.
“owners assume all the risk”
Owner buys team, team valuation skyrockets, owner sells team, repeat.
So risky.
I know it can be difficult to get across on message boards, but I thought the sarcasm in that comment was pretty obvious.
I heard this over and over again in 2007 as it related to home owners. Then 2008 hit.
People that risk their capital are taking real risks. Just because an asset has performed well in the past does not guarantee that it will perform well in the future.
There is no such thing as a “no risk” investment,
regardless of the influence or the subsidy; it just seems that way if you choose to simplify the complex.
Where else but sports do owners have to approve of their potential competitors who want to buy a team? And tell me one owner who has lost money on baseball and if you can find one, did not write off his losses on other business? The only Socialism in baseball is with the owners.
There are literally 900 people on the planet, out of 7 billion, that can do what the payers can do.
For every team that goes up for sale, there are multiple people or groups with desire and money to buy that major league team. We don’t need the current owners at all.
When you consider the fact that the cost of the infrastructure needed to play the game (stadiums, roads, water, utilities, etc…) is paid for by the taxpayers and the majority of the bills in MLB including player salaries are covered by the TV deals, you see clearly that the owners are completely superfluous. All they are is an expensive middle man.
Then what, is it magically solved?
What has he done, to be labeled as a fraud?
Said it before and I still believe it…
The owners are wealthy; most (and I think all, correct me if I’m wrong) have multiple sources of income. They’re businessmen, and while they don’t like losing money, they’re crafty and will accept a short term loss for a long term gain.
Players have a limited window within which to earn money. When that window closes, they have to find another job. Owners can own forever; it doesn’t matter if their bodies break down, as long as they can sign things.
The owners will win.
Yes.. the poor broke players will have to start waiting tables!! Please both sides are wrong but this isn’t the 50’s players don’t need to find work
750k minimum salary would be an easy concession and very likely. Add in licensing money meals and medical. Nice pay for a kid starting out
So, they’re willingly giving money to people to play & watch a game. That is your grievance?
The owners are not “giving” anybody anything. That is our money. TV or tickets or taxes or merchandise. We pay for that. All of that.
The players are what we are paying for. The owners are just a middle man that take a portion of our money for a profit.
Sorry, I didn’t realize you were paying the players.
See, I pay for tickets to watch a ball game.. the owner then uses that money as they see fit (operations, players/staff/workers, stadium). It’s an investment that is up to the owner where & how to allot that money. Your owner is a, as you say, “middle guy”where the rest of the league they are the “owner”. I pay for the service of entertainment, and your paying for grass seed.
You could say Fire Manfred all you want but he is just a mouthpiece for the owners. He doesn’t say anything they don’t want him to say. He isn’t paid to have an original thought. If you don’t like Manfred’s actions then you don’t like the owners. Any replacement would be exactly the same.
This. The owners have a really sweet deal going with the commissioner. He does their bidding and takes all the blame. I suppose he’s well compensated for it though.
Yes the MLB Commissioner is voted in by the owners, but “the Office of the Commissioner of Baseball hires and maintains the sport’s umpiring crews, and negotiates marketing, labor, and television contracts.”
The Commissioner manages the league. Thus far we’ve gotten pitch clocks and threats of robot umpires. For a guy so concerned about moving the game forward with pace of play and reaching out to the younger and black communities for fans, if this labor strife causes missed games, you can flush all marketing efforts down the toilet.
He’s supposed to negotiate an agreement that is suitable for both sides (with obvious concessions) and thus far, he’s failed.
So looking at the Commissioners Office purpose above, he’s botched television contracts as local networks are pulling back and streaming will be on limited Apple TV. He’s basically telling umpires you’ll be replaced with robotic strike zones in the near future. His marketing efforts are abysmal – how many average sports fans know the name Fernando Tatis Jr.? How many fans are coming out because the pace of play efforts have shaved 0 minutes off the game (never mind shifts and pitching changes have killed singles). And of course his wonderful job at labor negotiations. He’s a puppet.
F A I L U R E.
You’ve completely talked yourself out of your own argument. The commissioner is more than “voted in” by the owners. In effect he’s the CEO of MLB and the owners are his board of directors, the ones who hire and fire. He serves entirely at their pleasure. So if Manfred as you insist has totally failed at his job, why do you think he still has it?
I don’t understand your retort. He has his job because he’s a puppet (as I mentioned). He’s a terrible commissioner when you judge him against what a commissioner is actually supposed to do.
So you’re posting under two screen names? That’s confusing.
Anyway, if you want to continue making this argument you might want say what you believe a commissioner is “actually supposed to do” other than represent the interests of the owners of baseball. I think you’ll find that he doesn’t have any other duties, but if you believe he does you are welcome to explain what they are and why you think so.
Manfred still has his job because at least 16 owners want him there but for various reasons, some of which are known only to those owners. Maintaining a position in a quasi-monopoly is akin to maintaining a high level job in government; incompetence may not get you fired but depleting your political capital most certainly will.
I’ve already pointed out that a commissioner has to be able to count to 16, so I’m not going to disagree there. But I will point out that he serves at the pleasure of the owners, and the moment he can’t count to 16 he’s out on the bricks. So obviously he can still count to 16, and that’s the case no matter what many fans want to believe. And that belief lives on apparently because so many fans can’t seem to accept that when he speaks the voices of the owners come out of his mouth. Even though that’s, like, his job.
I love baseball… I love going to games… but if they allow this to proceed long enough to lose games I won’t give the owners and the league a dime for this season. In my opinion MLB is very quickly starting to come out of this whole thing looking the worse. The more that leaks the worse the league looks.
That’s a key point, both sides can lose if they alienate the fans for long enough.
Especially there younger generations have so much choice for entertainment. I love baseball, but like you I’m spiteful and will cancel my seasons if there is an extended break
Kcs:
Yes and no.
The information that is ‘leaking” is no big deal. Fans will not remember which side said what.
The big deal is the extent to which the season is delayed. If the season starts by the first weekend in May all will be forgiven. Omicron will be in decline by then and all that was good could be again.
Agreed. Especially since when the lock out ends there will be a flurry of tsx’s, no one will remember any of this.
Lots of buzz words you see in all negotiations. Nothing earth shattering. The season is too long anyways. I am fine with a shortened season.
Considering how many spring games are broadcast nowadays I thought teams would make something off them. Not regular season money, but something.
Teams have to make money on spring training games. And it stuns me that players don’t get paid for spring training especially minor leaguers, who have to pay for about six weeks of rent and meals with a real chance of getting cut before the season starts, as well as risking injury.
Joe Blanton should be in the Hall of Fame Discussion.
Considering we live in a society of trophies for everyone, maybe everyone should be inthr Hall of Fame?
Quite possibly the last pitcher to hit a homer in the World Series.
Sometimes I wish half the fans would stop supporting baseball…
The only ones losing in this conflict are the fans… If the players win, then the owners will raise the ticket prices because the product on the field will become “more expensive”… But the players don’t care, owners don’t care either… They all just want our money and we have to witness this stupidity while they fight over the money we blow just to watch baseball.
I mean c’mon… You gotta spend about 500 bucks or more (depending on the seats) for 2 people to enjoy a game, most people have to wait until they get paid to afford that… Yet these guys are fighting over millions of dollars… Because both parties want more millions.
Not really, just buy high row seats and then sneak down. Bring your own food too. Park away from the stadium. Can enjoy a game at about 10-20$
Edited out
Given the state of the world outside of baseball, this entire situation is completely tone deaf and deflating. Whether it’s TV contracts or gameday revenue that owners and players are fighting over is irrelevant to the fact that the bottom line is fans are the paying customers supporting this entire industry. Yet many of us non-millionaire fans have lost paychecks, had a decrease in income, lost jobs or even lost loved ones due to the fact we are living in a worldwide health crisis. Sports are supposed to be an escape from our daily grind to entertain us and in this moment when we all could use something, anything, to distract us from reality, MLB is bickering over who deserves the greater piece of the pie that is our disposable income. It’s insane. I love the game of baseball and always will but my love of professional baseball is fading fast.
My love for this game is fading fast too.
Free games on internet.
When the weather is right, go to a mid-week day game against a lower-profile opponent and you can often get tickets at or below face value.
Buy tickets to games that don’t sell out and get seats in the last couple rows of field level and ushers often will not care if you move forward after the second inning.
Well… Being that I’m a Cubs fan, that usually only happens around April when it’s cold, but I’m sure it can be done at Tropicana as long as the Rays aren’t playing the Yankees.
MLB expresses willingness to cancel the game
MLB owners and the MLBPA are playing with the fans chips. There isn’t one single penny being negotiated that doesn’t come directly or indirectly from the fans. When it is all said and done, the two sides will have decided how the fans money is divided.
What happens if we just say screw it and don’t pay for tickets or watch the stuff on TV? What happens then? Look at the economy. With prices spiraling out of control, less and less of us can afford $200.00 for a family to watch Baltimore play Colorado.
Organize a boycott. Boycott the home opening series which is the most watched and attended of the season. Just those 3 games is enough to really send a message that fans are unhappy.
Get a website and social media accounts started with a sign up sheet for people that say they will join the boycott. Publish the number of people that have signed up.
Then come here and let people know about it. Word will spread fast. See how many people take up the boycott.
Meanwhile Scott Boras be lurking
30+ billionaires who own the MLB government granted monopoly and who’s place of business was paid for by the public.. just aren’t satisfied with a majority of the pie.. they want more…
someoldguy. Wrong. No monopoly. They have competition from other entertainment and most of the money comes from fans buying tickets and watching tv,
Wrong False, garbage: THE MLB is a government granted monopoly… nobody can just build a team and add it to the MLB without the MLB permission.. Federal Baseball Club v. National League, 259 U.S. 200 (1922)
“Other entertainment”. He never said, creating a team and adding it to the league. Anyone can create a new baseball league at any given time, and MLB cannot do a single thing about it.
MLB is baseball, but baseball is not MLB.
Nobody can add a store under any companies name.
Do you even live in this country? You can’t even use the coka cola font on a real estate sign.
a lack of reading comprehension is evident… the MLB is a monopoly.. no one can build a competitive team and join the league… the MLB has the sole right to decide who plays whom…
@james Here is a little reading for you,
npr.org/2021/12/17/1065312074/mlbs-lockout-partial…
economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/04/01/wh…
Here is a little more.
beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/3/678134/the-history…
promarket.org/2021/07/11/baseballs-legal-monopoly-…
So please read those articles and start to get yourself educated about the subject. While he was a little over the top in his description, @someoldguy was 100% correct.
So….. I bake a pie….and you have decided what I should do with MY PIE, THE PIE I MADE?
REALLY?
Remember the parable about the hen?
the players build the Pie… the public built the stadiums…. no players no public money… where would they be…
I have heard it all before. Proposals that never happen and empty threats..
The top 10 free agents should all set up meetings in Japan with owners over there. Just in case wink wink
F Manfred and anything he or his minions propose.
Manfred is the minion.
I think the CBA should be settled with the owners, Manfred, Clark, and the Players all going 1 on 1 with the Undertaker. Or Manfred vs Clark in a CBA rights ladder match. The first to obtain the briefcase gets the exclusive CBA rights.
I can only think of a couple MLB players that might stand a chance versus the 56 year old 6’10” 300 pound beast known as the Undertaker. That would be either Giancarlo Stanton or Aaron Judge of the Yankees. I guess Joey Gallo also of the Yankees might last a few seconds in the ring.
Tyler O’Neill can bench-press 400 pounds. Give him 40 hours of training in the ring, and he would stand a good chance.
The 49 year old 6’8″ Clark?
Hope they cancel games and lose even more Fans, then they’ll finally get it
I’m really sick of this never ending negotiation drama.
Just get something done before pitchers and catchers report. There’s no reason to be willing to cut games. Unless it’s to cut it to 154 games per season. That might actually get us a WS to end in October.
This greedy people dont’ care about fans.
So you believe the players should settle because you are feeling unappreciated? Are they not entitled to try to negotiate the best deal they can without holding your hand? I assume at work if you were one of the top performers in the world and brought in billions for the business owners you would say, no problem, sure I am happy being underpaid do you billionaires who do nothing can get even wealthier while taxpayers fund stadiums
They are not entitled. As a matter of a fact…. That is the problem. They feel entitled.
Let them pick another career if they don’t like the one they have. That is all they’re entitled to. Just like every one else
I have to admit that player demands in these situations tend to push me towards taking the owners’ side the majority of the time but if what is stated here is true (players willing to keep the 6 years of control) and the owners are now threatening the loss of regular season games, I find myself leaning towards the players this time around. The players don’t seem to be asking for anything unreasonable that can’t be negotiated to an acceptable compromise from both sides. Here’s what’s they should do in my opinion:
1) Current minimum salary is $570K/yr. Players want this raised to $700K. Split the difference and make the league minimum $650K/yr.
2) Arbitration after two years – The owners should be willing to concede on this since they retained their 6 years of control. The arbiters tend to give very low raises to first year Arb. players, and I’m sure these raises would be even lower for a player with 2 years of service. This shouldn’t scare the owners and it would present the opportunity for them lock up more of their young stars on early extensions than they do today.
3) Expanded playoffs – If the league gives in on the top 2 demands, the MLBPA should be willing to accept extended playoffs. I hope they decide to limit it to 12 teams and not push for 14. Fourteen playoff teams is just too many after playing 162 games.
4) Draft Lottery – With the exception of the few “cellar dweller” team owners, I don’t see why owners would object to this at all. The bottom 8 teams would be added to an evenly-weighted lottery to determine the draft order for all 8 teams. While there could still be a little bit of ‘tanking’ to try and get from the 9th or 10th worst record down to the 8th, it would all but eliminate the obvious end of season tanking that goes on today in order to secure the #1 overall pick. This would allow rebuilding teams to actually play their best young players and build towards a competitive team quicker without worrying about securing the best possible draft pick. I think we’d see teams rebuild faster with a draft lottery in place. Last year, the 8th worst team (Twins) won 73 games. That’s a far cry from the 52 wins the Diamondbacks finished with.
5) CBT Threshold – If league revenues truly grew 30% from 2015-2019, there’s no reason why the CBT thresholds shouldn’t increase. No team is forced to spend up to the CBT thresholds, but it was great to see a normally mid-market team like San Diego spend like they did last year but unfortunately they get penalized for doing so. The tax payment is inconsequential but the loss of international free agent pool money and the higher draft pick cost of signing a QO free agent are the major deterrents against teams to do this. They should be able to come to a compromise here: something like $230M for 2022 and then increase that by $5M per season, finishing the 5 year CBA term at a $250M. The owners of the wealthiest teams are their own worst enemy here. They are not being forced to spend this much, but they always seem to spend right up to the cap and have to play CBT gymnastics come the trade deadline should they want to improve their club and not go over the first tax level. Increase the limits to an amount in line with league revenue growth and then it’s up to the owners on whether or not they want to spend that much.
If they can come to an agreement on these 5 core issues (unless I’m missing a big one on my list) the rest of the remaining items should be relatively easy to negotiate (DH for both leagues, international free agent draft, etc). It seems like both sides need an adult in the room to keep them on task and keep their emotions in check. The worst possible outcome would be for the league to cancel games and it is shameful the owners brought that up as an acceptable option earlier this week.
Playoffs should stay at 10. And max out at 12. 14 teams is way too many teams. No one wants a 79-83 team in the playoffs.
They could go back to two divisions per league and have four wild cards. That way the four wild cards in each league have to play a best-of-three Wild Card Series while the two division winners get a bye and play the wild card winners in the Division Series.
Very well reasoned, and probably close to where both sides will end up. However, I think the elephant in the room is tanking. Having watched my small market team who hasn’t been in the playoffs for 21 years, participate in deliberate tanking for 3 seasons I would think the players will find this a threat to players well being and ultimately hurt the long term popularity of the sport. There are only so many elite shortstops that can get jobs with big market teams leaving the solid majority scrambling to find a position with a team not really trying (or paying) to win a championship.
A very well reasoned analysis of the issues- or at least most of the issues.
1) The minimum salary is one area that should be increased significantly. The cost to teams relative to other items is fairly small. For a team with 15 players earning minimum salary, a jump from the current minimum to the players’ proposal is 3.1 million per team in the first year. It would help a majority of union members and help to narrow the pay gap.
I’d love to see arbitration after two years- another way to narrow the pay gap, but the owners aren’t likely going that far, IMO. 2.5 years, or 2.086 years of service time is just 30 days more than this year’s 2.116 cutoff. I think it will move, but not all the way to two years.
Expanded playoffs are the owners’ biggest wish and the players’ biggest bargaining chip in this round, and the players will go to 14 teams if they get what they want on the core economic issues. I’d rather see 12, and the players have already offered that, but it’s no cost to players to give them 14.
Draft lottery- the owners proposed a three team lottery for three slots. The players proposed an eight team lottery for all teams that miss the playoffs. They’ll settle somewhere in the middle, but it will do nothing to prevent tanking.
CBT Threshold- the owners proposed a paltry increase of less than one percent per year over 5 years, and an increase in the tax rate from 20 percent to 50 percent at the lowest threshold. The gap here is more than just 245M vs 214- 220M. The tax rate is also an issue. It’s still just numbers, so it can be settled, even if they stay close to the current tax rates.
I’d like to see if the owners would give on a floor or low end tax in exchange for a higher tax- hardening the defacto cap.
Missing from this discussion are two key issues. Service time manipulation and tanking. A lottery does nothing to force cheap teams to spend. They need to have either a salary floor/ tax on lower payrolls, or require that revenue sharing dollars be spent on player salaries.
The players should hold out hard to force these teams to spend. The fact that several teams get more revenue from sharing than they pay in salaries is just absurd. This, I think, is the hardest issue to solve.
With the players conceding the issue of free agent eligibility and sticking with six years, there is little that can be done to prevent service time manipulation, short or just prohibiting manipulation for service time reasons. Players would have to file a grievance to prove their case, but it’s about all that can be done at this point.
Great points! However Corporate welfare is so tasty tho
#1 – The players want the minimum raised to $775k. The owners offered $675k. Middle ground is $725K. Get it done. Its an average of $500k per teams.
#2 – The owners have been hesitant to change the time for arbitration to start after seeing how much more the players that qualified for Super Two status make than most young players.
#3 – The players have already proposed a 12 team playoff which would increase MLB revenue by over $300 million.. The owners proposed a 14 team playoffs with 3 game WC series which would increase MLB revenue by $450-500 million.. The union asked to be paid the same percentage of the TV revenue which makes up more than 80% of the revenue for playoff games, as they already receive for the gate. As long as the players are getting paid for the TV revenue, either is entirely reasonable. I would hate a 14 team playoff, but in this case neither the players nor the owners would.
#4 – Totally agree. Get it done.
#5 – Agree. The CBT should go way up. The CBT was $189 million in2015. A 30% increase would be $245 million. How much are the players asking for? Amazing!! Exactly $245 million. The owners have been asking for stiffer penalties to start that scale up from there, larger penalties for repeat offenders, and for a continuation of draft pick and IFA pool penalties.
Compromise. Players agree to lower demands to the $230 million you mentioned and owners agree to lower the initial penalties and get rid of all draft pick or IFA pool penalties.
The MLB is starting to get ridiculous now.
manfred is an idiot no fan wants to miss any games
I’m not convinced that expanding the playoffs waters it down.
Yes, obviously the more berths available, the better the odds of a mediocre team sneaking in.
BUT, unless you do away with division play, this will always be possible.
The 87 Twins won 85 games and a World Championship. The 05 Padres won 82 games and the NL West.
I actually believe that expansion to 14 teams would be healthy.
Looking at the last 3 (complete) seasons, only ONE sub-.500 team would’ve finished 7th or better (the 18 Angels, at 80-82). Meanwhile THREE teams with 90 wins or better who missed out, would have had a chance to compete in the postseason.
Sounds like an improvement, to me.
Maybe I’m alone in this, but I enjoy meaningful baseball games down the stretch. If my team is in the hunt for the postseason (even as the 7th seed), I’ll enjoy the ride!
Are there truly any fans out there who would look at their team with, say, a 77-75 record and say “I sure hope we lose 10 straight and miss the playoffs, because we won’t deserve to be there with 83 wins”?
You’re not alone. Divisional play is not going away. MLB likes the unbalanced schedule, cuts down on travel expenses and tries to create more regional rivalries to fuel interest locally. To do away with divisional play would also mean going back to a balanced schedule.
Playoffs have become an entirely different animal compared to the regular season. Teams that succeed in the regular season are not necessarily built to succeed in the post season. More teams in the hunt will mean more interest, translating into more $$$.
If they go to a 14 team playoff then they need to change the scheduling in the regular season e.g. 1 SCHEDULED traditional double header where they are allowed to expand the roster by a slot or two to cover without penalty. The owners will never shorten from 162, so this is the only solution if the World Series will end before you start thawing the turkey.
(Good luck with overthrowing Megatron, I’ve been rooting for you since 1984!)
* 1 scheduled DH per month, I meant.
It seems like every commissioner now is someone who will take millions of dollars to be an ass hat so the fans talk about him instead of the owners or league during tough matters.
Soo true, haha. It is a witch hunt.
We should expect more of this. Billions of dollars are in play. Both sides are trying to get as much as they can. It’s normal. Neither side owes fans much of anything-for as much as we puff ourselves up to think we are important, it’s not really all that true. Baseball will eventually settle its labor dispute, and we will go back to watching, advertisers will tell us what beer to drink and what trucks to buy. Cities and states will climb over each other spending money that might otherwise go towards public services (or just not be taxed at all) to build pleasure palaces for billionaires and the segment of the population that goes. At the same time politicians will tell us there’s no money to rehab a kid’s playground.
I’m generally pro-labor, and so root a little more for the players in this, but from a larger perspective, it’s my viewing experience that’s important to me. I’d like to see baseball, or hear it on the radio. I’d like not to need a second mortgage if I want to go with family. I’d like to see young talents as soon as they are ready. And I’d like to see teams try to compete. No way should I have to pay high end scotch prices for 3rd rate beer. That’s pretty much it, and if I have a rooting interest at all it’s getting that. Not holding my breath.
Owners, stick it to them. The players won’t stop till tickets are $100.00 for bleacher seats. Big baseball fan here and I will be back when its done. Will watch KBO again if I have to.
The owners will charge as much as they can whether the players get more or not.
The players are not looking out for the fans either, but don’t blame high prices on them.
Wrigley Field tix for D’Backs@Cubs are minimum cost at $40. The bleachers are anywhere from $40-$80. The section just behind the 100 sections are priced at 150$ and up. You would think playing worst teams would be somewhat cheaper.
When big bucks become involved——that’s when everything becomes ridiculous!!!!
With the rise in baseball ticket prices —- its durn near impossible for a middle class family to afford to go to one baseball game.
Much less travel to attend 2 games. That involves a hotel and meals. Can’t be done by the middle class family!!!
That was a blast in the late 90’s!!! Nicely affordable. I went as far as going in half on Season tickets in section 252 for my family.
The Marriott was across the street with reasonable prices on rooms, plus breakfast!!
My son remembers those days when he was growing up!!!!!! Things are so high now—— he can’t afford to do the same thing with his family!!! Pitiful!!!!
Ughh, I’m a baseball fan! I appreciate the NFL and get why others are “Die Hard” about football and the team they root for. I’m a 49ers fan I get it. Stopped watching and following the NBA in the early 2000’s game changed too much and teams just stacked the deck to win chips. Baseball is different, I believe it’s the hardest 162 grind and not always the best team can win it all “ insert my Atlanta Braves here” it’s more of a family friendly venue where you can sit with your kids and explain the game and be a “Dad” to me unlike other sports. ManFred and players get it together I remember 94 and it took some crazy Sosa/McGuire season to bring back the fringy fans. I’m going to watch regardless but I was at the WS in Atlanta this year and people that didn’t even really like the game bought those expensive tickets just to be a part of it. MLB can’t compete with the major sports or afford to take huge blows like lost games and revenue. You will lose more than any other sport just like they did in 94.
Tone deaf. Remarkably tone deaf.
The fans need representation in this since we are as big a part of baseball as are the owners and players. Simply put, without fans, there is no Major League Baseball. And on that front, if it is announced that regular season games are to be lost, the fans should boycott for a significant period. No going to games, no watching on TV and no buying merchandise. I know, I know. Pie in the sky stuff. There is no way to organize the fan base that way but I wish there was a way to make it clear that we are as big a part of this as they are and frankly, I think both the owners and the players take that for granted.
Can you name any other collective bargaining negotiations that invite the customers to participate?
Also, I got your back…I more or less started “boycotting” baseball about two years ago. Not due to labor issues. It’s because TTO is boring AF.
Forgive me if I’m getting you wrong, Beyou, but I agree with your point. It’s not a matter of fans “participating” in the process, it’s a matter of fans holding each side accountable. Cancelling games punishes the fans, that’s the express purpose of the move, to pressure the other side into compromise at the risk of fan backlash. The fans are viewed as nothing more than a tool, a weapon, a pawn, at this time. I’m all for a boycott. If MLB cancels one game this year, I’ll be cancelling my MLBTV. A small, personal striving toward accountability.
Any 2022 MLB Regular Season game that is canceled Commissioner Manfred should not be paid.
Who freaking cares … baseball is so far away from the NFL … baseball barely has a heart beat. I wouldn’t care if the whole league folded , I’m so sick of all this bickering. Owners , players .. all a bunch of cry babies. Shut up and play or just everyone go home and stay there.
The average MLB fan is 58.
And given that the range of possible ages below 58 is greater than the ones above it, that means that the majority of self identified fans are over 58.
The one group of younger “fans” that MLB has curated in recent years are statheads who don’t appear to even watch, let alone go to, games. They just need baseball to produce a communal set of raw data for their real hobby.
Baseball is headed for a demographic cliff with no apparent plan to alter course.
Communal set of raw data. Now that’s true!
That’s an interesting point on new “stat” driven fans. In for the numbers, not the game.
MLB should learn from 1994. That was the year that baseball fell from the graces of many fans and the NFL put MLB firmly in a lower place.
MLB players are overpaid and the higher this goes the harder it will be for normal fans to afford going to games.
I already noticed many fans only cheer when the scoreboard tells them to.
I think fans should strike.
MLBPA call the owners bluff and tell them you’ll get back to them around the 4th of July at a BBQ…
I’d be fine if the players came out and said: “You know what, go ahead and cancel the season then.” I feel like MLB is negotiating in bad faith, and I wouldn’t hold it against the players.
Where is it written that they should negotiate in good faith?
So many lambs out there just believing in the brain washed message they are given.
The owners should just walk away. Open tryouts for players who actually want to play for the love of the game and for the fans. Start the season on time. Let the entitled players find other jobs since they place so little respect on the one they have now.
Let’s just trash the season and go straight to the playoffs. All teams. Double elimination best of 7. If you’re eliminated no more pay. Go.
The MLBPA has certainly been the more professional of the two sides throughout these negotiations. The threats, the delays, and of course the lockout have all come from the owners side. As for Manfred’s statement, yes fans know there’s a difference with a lockout in the offseason when no games are lost. They also know the billionaire boys club locked the players out and then management walked away from the negotiating table for six weeks without an offer.
You know this how? All you know is what is being leaked by the ones who want to control the message.
Everyone knows this, as it’s been universally reported without denial.
Owners demanded that players drop three issues as a precondition to them making any further offers. When the players didn’t agree to their demand, they imposed a lockout and didn’t make another offer for 43 days.
The only formal offer on the table at the time of the lockout was an end to arbitration and free agency at age 29-1/2, which equates to 8- 10 years for most players.
” control the message”
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This is so obvious, and it is the same with signing FAs, draft choices, etc. Guys like Cashman, or Bloom, or Theo before him, say nothing that they don’t want said. If a story leaks that Cashman says Correa is his #1 target, I’m going to LV to wager he signs Story.
It would be absolutely stupid for either side to disclose information, unless it benefited them. Basically, pay attention to nothing prior to them signing.
It’s posturing.
In case it wasn’t obvious what the owners’ strategy was in not talking or making an offer for 43 days after locking the players out, it’s obvious now.
They want the pressure of lost paychecks to get the players to make concessions. It’s a negotiating tactic.
But of course, the only alternative is that they’re not willing to cancel games, and if they don’t have a deal in time to start the season, they’ll just give up.
Baseball is not a public trust and it owes nothing to any of us. Each of us can choose how much we want to pay attention to it. All I ask is a quality product for my dollar. That means players making credible efforts on the field and owners making credible efforts to display a quality product. But if they don’t, then it’s like any other business that has indifferent employees selling mediocre merchandise at high prices, and in an un-remodeled store. I’m free to buy there anyway or look for another distraction.
Baseball is a game, it is a form of entertainment. We have the freedom to root for any team we want, change any time we want, and walk away any time we want.
It’s a business for the owners and players, and completely agree with you it’s a game and entertainment for us
Most of the localities have made public infrastructure investments and have lease agreements in place with the MLB team. In that respect teams do have some degree of direct obligation to the taxpaying public.
You know what I have not heard at all from either side. ” we want to improve the fan experience” “We need to make the games more affordable for our fans” “how can we improve to make new fans” I know this is a labor agreement but come on ultimately this is for the fans or they would all be playing beer league softball! If the season is delayed you can bet my MLB.tv subscription will be canceled, I will buy some fishing gear and spend more time on the lake this summer. I do not need you MLB, I just enjoy you!
MLB is banking you will be back once baseball is played. But this time around, I don’t know if that is true or not. Baseball already has an aging fan base and they are really concerned about attracting new, younger fans. Losing games not only PO’s their existing fan base, but also gives new fans time to find something else to do.
It would be in baseball’s best interest to not put this notion to the test.
I agree, the truth is the old timers hold so dearly to what use to be. records and history, sorry but we do not live in those times anymore. We need a shorter season and longer playoffs if only to keep more fan bases interested longer. I am leaning with the owners here as far as what they want to do but I know they want that for money reasons while I want it for a healthier game, I am really having trouble understanding why the PA is down on a shorter season anyway the contracts are yearly. idk I am just tired of hearing the squawking, I know, how about you have open door negotiations? lets see what is really being said.
Is any the MLBPA making the same bet?
This is such horse $/!%. They had over a MONTH where they did NOTHING! Absolutely nothing. They assured fans it was okay that they weren’t meeting prior to the holidays. The ENTIRE MONTH befor holidays. “Games won’t be lost…”. Liars. All of them, liars. Selfish multi millionaires and billionaires. I’d love to say “I’m done” but I know this isn’t true. I am the abused spouse that will stay after a weak apology. “Sorry fans, but we are back!” (Said in mid-May)
Aholes- all of them if any games are cancelled.
Does this surprise anyone?
If I were in charge of the MLBPA, I would negotiate an expanded playoff ONLY if this seasons starts on time. Miss one game and no expanded playoffs.
BINGO. I was just about to say the same thing.
The owners impose a lockout, don’t bother to negotiate for 43 days, blatantly stall until the season draws near to get more leverage, then threaten to cancel the season.
They’re so transparent. They are using the threat of canceled games as a tool.
The players should absolutely come out and say that if any regular season games are missed, there will be no expanded playoffs. That’s the owners baby- their fondest wish.
And if I was MLB, I would lock the players out and bring in new players and start the season on time.
And would you go to the games with “Replacement players” if the owners charge the same ticket prices.?
Starting the arbitration clock at 2 years of MLB service accomplishes, of course, absolutely nothing. It still allows for service time manipulation.
The ONLY way to eliminate that manipulation is to define “service time” as beginning at the initial contract signing. Both the Lords and the MLBPA know this, so the arbitration thing is basically just a dance that allows a minimal amount of dollars to go to certain players, but still leaves the majority of compensation capability to stay with the upper 10% of wage earners. The veterans may claim they worry about how the up-and-comers are treated, but in reality they don’t worry much. And they absolutely don’t care a whit about minor leaguers.
Service time manipulation keeps players under club control for an extra season by delaying their free agency clock. Teams only have to keep a player in the minors for two more weeks to get that extra season. But that player gets a fourth season of arbitration as a super two unless they delay the call up for about 60 days. That generally doesn’t happen.
Moving the super two cutoff back would put more players in the arbitration category and leave fewer in the minimum salary group, thereby reducing the pay gap. A two year arbitration eligibility puts many more players in the arbitration class. It’s very significant, which is why both sides are digging in on that issue.
But that does nothing to manipulation. Teams simply keep Adley Rutchman in AAA, off the 40-man, for the full four year period allowed. As long as service time is computed on the basis of 40-man eligibility, it’s essentially meaningless.
Preventing service time manipulation is not the intent of moving the arbitration deadline back, but that doesn’t mean it won’t accomplish other objectives.
In fact, if the arb eligibility is set at two years, there could be MORE manipulation, not less, because now, a prized prospect would not only be kept under club control by keeping him down for a couple extra weeks, but he’d lose another year of arbitration.
The goal of moving the eligibility date back is to get players paid earlier in their careers and there is no question it would do that.
Rob come on
This sport is dying
Bring on the SCABS!!!!!!
Can’t use replacement players during an owner-led lockout.
Manfred has been breathing his own air too long. I remember ’94 all too well. If it weren’t for Judge Sotomayor doing her best Moe Howard imitation and knocking both sides’ heads together like coconuts…oh, and threatening the anti-trust exemption, they’d still be locked out/on strike. What a farce.
January 2022.
NFL has perhaps the most epic and exciting weekend in the sport’s history.
MLB owners threaten to cancel games.
SMH.
Didn’t watch a single NFL game.
Yeah, it is just crazy that we the fans take over teams controlled by owners who are benefiting from the “socialism” of cities paying for stadiums and infrastructure while owners don’t care about winning. No teams anywhere are owned by fans/cities, right? LOL.
Do fans really own the Packers?
The Packers are the most uniquely run franchise in the NFL. With no owner in place — they’re owned by the people — the team is run by a president (Murphy) who serves as the lead decision-maker
Unlike many other football clubs, the supporters own and operate Barcelona. … Barcelona is one of the most widely supported teams in the world, and the club has one of the largest social media following in the world among sports teams.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_tea…
I like April games at wrigley. Beer Is ice cold
This is just crazy now. MLB cancels games it may not hurt thier pockets immediately but a lot of fans will be turned off from attending or watching those cable TV stations. The sport is already dying and this will accelerate that process. Billionares fighting with Millionaires and most commenter here are siding with the Billionares who have shown no concern for the sanctity of the game. Thier concern is money. The amount that MLB pulls in every year MORE than pays for what the PA is asking for. Yet we villafy the millionares for asking for more, when there is obviously more to give. Sad you can’t think beyond your own weekly paycheck to see this. The lack of empathy shown here is a reflection of where our society is. A hopefull story going no where because of greed…..
I don’t have a problem with players getting paid. They have difficult to replace talents. If anyone wants to see the market in action on the value of the quality displayed on the field, you need only look to the minor leagues, where small-budget teams with tiny payrolls produce small economic returns…because the fans won’t support more-they are paying what they think the minor league product is worth to them.
I’m tired of both sides. Greed, greed, and more greed, meanwhile the average fan continues to pay more and more to attend a game, or watch it on TV. No, I don’t feel sorry for the player who had to sign for 10m instead of 15m. I don’t feel sorry for owners whose revenue went from 200m to 150m. Both sides are incredibly privileged to either play baseball for money, or own a MLB baseball team.
Unfortunately, the only way either side will learn this, is for fans to no longer support MLB. Quit going to games, watching games on TV, or buying MLB merchandise. I know this isn’t likely, all we be forgiven when they settle, and the same cycle of greed will start all over again.
Why should I quit? The last time there was a strike was 28 years ago. I don’t understand why fans feel a personal affront. Both sides have an interest in a good deal. There are billions at stake. If every 28 years, I have to miss two weeks of baseball, I couldn’t care less.
I think some of y’all need to shut off your devices until this is over. When BB comes back, it comes back.
For the reasons I stated above. The fans end up paying for it in the long run. If your ok with that, that’s fine. Not everyone feels the same way.
This is all negotiation table blustering.
Hard to imagine what the players thought would happen if there was no deal. The players use Drellich and Rosenthal as their PR flacks whenever they want a story in the media about how cruelly they are treated by reality.
The owners were already billionaires before they bought their franchise. Baseball is an ego trip for them. They can shut down baseball and be financially sound.
As for the players, I hear Walmart is hiring.
“We wants the money, Lebowski!”
Obviously you’re not a golfer
Get ready for scab baseball.
Can we fire Manfred? He is not good for the game whatsoever
The owners can hold out and cancel regular season games hurting the players. Missing regular season games hurts players more than the owners. I only see one way to counter this strategy. If so much as a single regular season game is lost then the players have to stand fast and strike through the post season to end that leverage for the next agreement.
Of course they are.
At least MLB is being honest about their interest (dare I say, eagerness) in canceling regular season games to achieve another deal in their favor.
Now, the players have to decide whether and how long they hold out — up through forcing the entire season (and the owner’s big cash cow, the post-season) to be scrubbed.
If the owners think the players will fold after losing a third or a half of their annual salaries via a shortened 110 or 80 game season, the players should be smart enough to see the owners lose a full year of that backloaded national TV deal.
Scratching off all of ‘22 will cost Manfred his job and result in both sides being far more eager for a deal to resume what’s left of MLB for 2023 — and beyond.
1. I understand that Manfred works at the pleasure of the owners. But at some point, “the good of the game” has to supersede this. In the long run, the owners come out worse for a stoppage because…
2. A lesson can be taken from the NHL. After they lost 2004-05 due to labor stupidity they went from ESPN National Hockey night to a cardboard set on OLN. It took them several years to recover, and that happened during heady economic times. No one has any sympathy for millionaire players and billionaire owners….and now we have the economy we have in 2022.
3. How does a work stoppage and halt in revenue help the 10 or so teams that cry poverty (I don’t believe for a second any team is struggling in actual profit)?
4. If you are upset as a fan, vote with your feet. I’ve been to exactly 1 game in the last 8 seasons and that was a corporate ticket I didn’t pay for, and I purchased 1 team t-shirt for my kid in that time. Other fans can withhold much more money than I can.
I agree with #4. We have the resources. I encourage all of us fans to form & join local leagues & bring the soul back to the sandlot. Great opportunity for communities to come together, more importantly, get the kids involved!
@Hello, Newman I would love some form of a massive organized fan-wide boycott for those who are upset about it, but I just don’t see it happening.
I’ve been to exactly 1 game in the last 8 seasons
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So you already don’t go to games and want others to not go to games?
That’s senseless. How does giving up something I like, benefit me? Should I give up on the local diner, pub and bakery?
Joe, he did not say you or anyone else shouldn’t go. Maybe that’s the loss of sense.
I’ve been to more independent league games than MLB/MiLB games in my lifetime. Maybe the talent level isn’t top-notch but still good quality baseball and once in a while those guys make it to the MiLB and the MLB.
I love the actual game of baseball but in it’s current form the MLB is moving towards the NBA/NHL watered down model. Fans cheer when they are not looking at their phone and when the giant scoreboards tell them to. A couple of dominant teams and a bunch of owners fielding barely AAA rosters with hopes of just making the playoffs and getting lucky to advance past the WC round. Buy the over priced, tacky merchandise, gambling sponsors that want your mortgage/rent $, players moving from team to team every 2 yrs after bitching about making millions of $ and most players can’t or don’t want to play both offense and defense to go along with pitchers that barely go 4 innings and are called superstars. Pre-packaged, corporate BS$$$$$.
well said
Are you stoned?
1-There have been 8 different winners in the past 8 years, so most of the teams are doing okay.
2-GFY with the tacky merchandise comment. I like wearing my team shirt. I have a BB shirt I bought twenty+ years ago that is falling apart, but I still take it out for opening day.
3-If you want nothing to do with BB, just man-up and leave. No one will miss you. As soon as this is over, I’m going to go to a game on a hot day, wearing my tacky BB shirt, drinking an overpriced beer, while you sit in your basement railing at the rest of the world.
It sounds like he has already “manned up”
“Sit in your basement railing?” yikes!
It’s just you and your hot old trusty bb swag this spring, Joe.
Ohh, the humanity!
The game will be fine. Those of us that won’t be going Full-Karen will simply return when BB returns. When the NYY are hosting the RS on 7/16, I’ll kick back with a couple of Beck’s, cooling off from a sweaty day, watching one of the great rivalries in sports’ history.
If no one else wants to come along for the ride, they won’t be missed.
Screw the players dude.
It shouldn’t cost $1000 to go to a God damn baseball game.
What $550K not enough for.you greedy b-tards?
Why? WHY?
Because parties at J-Lo’s cost more than that…….
ROTTEN A HOLS
One more stoney. The only way a game costs $1,000 is if I buy 75 24 ounce beers at $13 each, to go along with my $26 ticket.
@JoeBrady While I don’t necessarily agree with the above commenter, games in my city (NY) can easily approach the $1,000 mark for small families. I have 2 kids. So between parking, tickets, simple food and beverage $1,000 isn’t far off the mark. I also think a lot of people don’t realize that a lot of stadiums use vendor services (i.e. Aeromark). So prices aren’t always determined by MLB one way or the other. So this whole point is irrelevant to the conversation about players and owners.
I can get pretty decent tickets at Y.S. for $26 each. I can bring in a decent amount of food for free. I usually take the subway or the MetroNorth. But parking near the stadium is maybe $25-35? It’s possible to spend a lot more, but hardly necessary.
I’m not extravagant, but i am not cheap, and don’t mind paying up. I’ve split season tickets with friends for a few years, and then split smaller packages for a number of years.
@JoeBrady That’s all fair, but everyone’s situation is different. Even in NY, public transportation isn’t an easy option for everyone, especially during a pandemic. $25-$35 is average parking at Y.S., but that’s average. If those lots get full you can end up having to pay $50 at another lot. Long story short, even on a budget baseball is an expensive hobby for families, and adding the CBA issues on top of it is not really helping the game any. I do think baseball loses a significant amount of fans should we see any canceled games or shortened seasons.
Screw the players dude.
It shouldn’t cost $1000 to go to a God damn baseball game.
What $550K not enough for.you greedy b-tards?
Why? WHY?
Because parties at J-Lo’s cost more than that…….
ROTTEN A HOLS
Ok tennis boy
Well, most of these billionaires or their kin, started out with A LOT LESS THAN THAT.
Personally, I think the players should be able to ask for what ever salaries they want.
But I have a problem with $7+ hotdogs. That is GOUGING. If your local gas station did that to you,they would be fined.
I should not have called the players names or used foul language. I apologise. I was trying to be expressive. It was in poor taste.
But what the heck, all of the “best people” and the “in crowd” already have me muted anyways. So…. I doubt many were offended. Get with the program.
There is an alternative to buying a $7 hot dog, which is NOT buying a $7 hot dog. Those things are pretty disgusting anyway. Do what you would do at a Broadway play. Eat dinner before or after. Eat at the Hard Rock Cafe at Yankee Stadium.
Meanwhile I just got an email this morning trying to sell me a new season ticket package. How about you go eff yourselves?
When people act like $550K is not a whole heck of a whole.lot of money… something is wrong.
Teaches our country to not value the dollar.
That’s enough money, that if you invest in yourself, you should be good the rest of your life.
How about we teach young Americans ( and the rest.of.the world) that?
These are NOT ROLE MODELS, too busy with gold chains, diamond earrings, fancy haircuts –
I blame rich people.
I think that stating they are willing to miss regular season games is a brilliant move by the owners.
The MLBPA made the mistake of stating they were trying to extend negotiations until the start of the season because that would be the timeframe when they would have the most leverage over the owners in these negotiations. The MLBPA even stated they had funding set up to pay players during an in season halt in play.
By stating they are willing to go to that timeframe, the owners blunt the MLBPA threat, and make it clear that if the regular season is shortened, it was because the MLBPA caused it. The players are the bad guys in that scenario because they stalled negotiations needlessly. They might as well negotiate a settlement now because they will never have a big negotiation advantage timeframe later.
I think negotiations will now proceed and players won’t get the big win they hoped for, but will instead take small gains in their priorities while the owners take small gains in their priorities. That’s a negotiation where both sides can claim victory and save face.
Another very high expense, which is going to get worse as more players retire, are the very lucrative lifetime pensions the MLB players receive.
Wonderful. Every diehard baseball fan loves cancelled games
If the MLBPA is so concerned about upping salaries for players who aren’t arbitration eligible here’s an out-of-the-box idea.
Every MLB player have 1% taken out of their checks and put in a pool to help Minor League players.
1. Up Minor League players minimum salary;
“A” players $40,000 per year
“AA” players $50,000 per year
“AAA” players $60,000 per year
2. MLB Owners also contribute 1% towards the Minor League players’ salaries.
3. MLB Owners provide “free housing” to every Minor League player.
4. MLB Owners should build housing (I.e. apartment complex) near every Minor League Team’s stadium.
5. Increase by (10%-20%) MLB players salaries with less than 3 years in the Majors.
First of all, the owners lock out the players, then they refuse to even speak to the Union for 57 days, come forth with an absurd proposal surely to be rejected, then lay the blame on the players for the possibility of cancelled games. The truth is the player’s share has been steadily declining for 10 years. The players should say no to expanded playoffs and absolutely stonewall the owners until they get a fairer cut of the pie. Rob Manfred must go!
Implementing the universal DH is a mistake and symptomatic of what is going on. Same with the 3 batter minimum.
Baseball is a TEAM SPORT.
The change promotes individualism and individual accomplishment and removes power and control from a higher authority. It literally removes team functions and specialization. Things that actually make a team a team.
It caters to a culture bent on self centered-ness and egotism. Thus the bat flips, sneers and mocking ect….that used to be controlled in its own way……
And accounts for my bazillion posts…..the kettle is black, you know.
It’s posturing. The MLBPA blinked so MLB is taking advantage of it.
I would rather see the SCAB players anyway at least they will be playing hard.
Were you alive in 1994?
We’ve seen scab players before and it would have been funny if it wasn’t so sad. Fortunately it ended before the 1995 regular season started and we didn’t have to watch inept ball playing in games that actually counted. It’s strange to me, but we as fans pay (those of us who do pay I suppose) to watch the very best players in the world do their thing. So who really wants to see a bunch of washed out minor leaguers, slow pitch softball players, and moonlighters playing Three Stooges baseball? As if that wouldn’t be the most destructive thing that could ever happen to the sport, again.
I don’t know.. would be kind of fun to see the game played like it was the 1800’s again. Im sure the quality of athletes would be comparable. I can see the league leader in HR with like 7 and 4 were inside the park
Dudes. Let grown ups act like children in the field. Yall can be children behind close doors swimming in bazillion of dollars. Fans pay the bill at the end of the day. They should be playing on the old cba and retro that ish when all settled over over priced beef and wine.
It’s going to be hard to find passion for the game I’ve loved for over four decades if there is any disruption to this season after the pandemic shortened season.
I don’t care if this is fair or not, it is where I find myself.
I’m not busting chops here, but if the season started on 4/15 instead of 4/1, would it really make any difference whatsoever?
Not that the players don’t have a part in this… they do. But I think MLB has a far bigger part and what they seem to care the least amount is fans. A Bleacher Report fan suggested we form a fan’s union. I can’t stand Manfred and believe he has hurt MLB for a long time. Baseball is a business of course and Covid cost owners a loss in profits. Losing fans and many of them won’t return. Not smart. It’s a lockout not a strike.