The White Sox have one of the best closers of his generation burning a hole in their pocket. Craig Kimbrel’s trade availability is no secret, so much so that speculation has reached the what-happens-if-they-don’t-trade-him part of the trade rumors life cycle, as explored yesterday by MLBTR’s Mark Polishuk. That said, when GM Rick Hahn picks up the phone to talk shop with one of the other 29 general managers, Kimbrel’s not likely the sole topic of conversation.
After all, determining value for a player like Kimbrel can often be accomplished by touching on a number of evaluative points, i.e. players, before circling back to the original focus. And of course, sometimes those conversation never return to the original player of focus at all. Vinnie Duber of NBC Sports speculates on who some of those other players are that the White Sox might bandy about in trade talks. This practice mostly amounts to a listing of the White Sox prospects and young players who haven’t yet established themselves in full-time roles, and sure enough, for Chicago’s Southsiders, they are the type of win-now club that must consider moving prospects.
The top player on Duber’s list (after Kimbrel), is Andrew Vaughn, the third overall pick of the 2019 draft. After an explosive season with the California Golden Bears, Vaughn was seen as a potential fast-riser, but it was still surprising to see the White Sox take a first baseman third overall, behind only superstars-in-waiting Adley Rutschman and Bobby Witt Jr. Impressive though his bat was, first baseman simply don’t usually go that high in the draft.
What’s more, the White Sox already had a first baseman in Jose Abreu. Abreu hadn’t yet put up his 2020 MVP season, but internally, the organization has always held him in high regard. Drafting for positional need isn’t exactly the rule of thumb for the MLB draft, of course. Regardless, at the time, Abreu was a potential free agent at the end of the year. So Vaughn, besides being a high-end college bat, benefited the White Sox as an insurance policy and negotiating tactic even before he donned a uniform.
Vaughn being blocked at first by Abreu was an easy can to kick down the road for Chicago’s draft team, but the hypothetical quandary actualized in 2021 as Vaughn approached big-league readiness. Though 2019 was his only season of minor league experience because of the pandemic, the White Sox nevertheless deemed Vaughn ready for the show in 2021, and they didn’t let the fact that there wasn’t an avenue to regular playing time stop them from placing Vaughn on the opening day roster. Of course, injuries cleared a path: all Vaughn had to do was learn a new position on the fly at the highest level of the sport.
All things considered, Vaughn held his own rather well in his rookie season, slashing .235/.309/.396 across 469 plate appearances while spending time at first base, left field, right field, second base, and third base. His performance at the plate was a touch disappointing as he finished six percent worse than average with a 94 wRC+, but if anyone deserves a little grace, it’s Vaughn.
Again, let’s consider the circumstances. Vaughn played his age-23 season not having played organized baseball in more than a year, never having appeared above High-A while adjusting to life as a part-time player and learning not one, but four new positions. He did so for a team with postseason expectations that absolutely did not have time to wait for Vaughn to “grow up.” He did so while taking the place of not one, but two injured outfielders in Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert who had quickly become the faces of the rising power in Armour Square. Even to be roughly the value of a replacement player under those circumstances (0.2 rWAR, 0.3 fWAR) has to be counted as a win for the ChiSox. The future is bright for Vaughn, with Steamer projecting Vaughn to become a 114 wRC+ hitter by next season.
For a high draft pick debuting for a championship contender, Vaughn’s national spotlight was surprisingly dim. His low profile can be partially attributed to the other stars on the team that pull attention their way, it could be partially attributed to the fact that the White Sox ran away with the division, but most of all, it’s probably attributable to the fact that part-time players rarely take center stage. And as Gavin Sheets, another rookie bat, crushed righty after righty, Vaughn was more-and-more relegated to the short-side platoon duties for which he was probably best suited.
Vaughn’s platoon splits are hard to ignore. The young slugger mauled southpaws to the tune of a 156 wRC+ with a .269/.383/.555 line. Against right-handers, Vaughn shrunk to a .221/.277/.332 triple slash, a mere 68 wRC+. Based on that production, Vaughn is already an elite short-side platoon bat. The question is whether he can grow to be more than that if he’s not getting those at-bats against same-handed hurlers. The White Sox will be heavy favorites in the AL Central, but the Royals and Tigers are rising, and the Twins and Guardians were formidable foes not long ago. It’s fair to question whether they can give him that time and space to develop.
We have to ask the question: should the White Sox trade Vaughn? For as much as Chicago will be favorited, they have holes to fill at second base, right field, and potentially in the rotation. It would hurt to move Vaughn, but to Duber’s point, we need only return to the Kimbrel trade to see Hahn’s willingness to shuffle pieces around to meet positional need – even when that means sacrificing young players. Last year’s trade of Nick Madrigal was a particular circumstance, of course, where Madrigal’s injury rendered him a zero in 2021. Hahn saw the potential to turn Madrigal’s zero into positive points on the ledger as they made a bid to be World Series contenders.
Of course, given how that turned out for Chicago, Hahn might think twice about making a similar move. That said, moving Vaughn would be a similar move if Vaughn is going to continue as a part-time player. Turning part-time production into full-time production would be a similar capitalization of resources, but that assumes that Chicago won’t find a way to get Vaughn into the lineup on a regular basis. Besides, his long-term potential coupled with his elite production against lefties might be enough for Hahn to tighten his grip on Vaughn, regardless of what kind of player he could get in return.
There’s also the matter of Vaughn’s “versatility,” which Chicago certainly utilized in 2021. Vaughn didn’t embarrass himself defensively at any position, but he also wasn’t a positive in any spot. Sure, they can continue to move him around the diamond as needs arise, but that might not be the best way to maximize Vaughn as a resource.
There are basically two avenues that the White Sox will want to consider for Vaughn as a resource. How can they maximize his value to help this team right now, and how can they best develop Vaughn as a player to reach his substantial ceiling? If they feel confident in aligning those tracks, then there’s no reason to consider moving Vaughn, not when alternatives to fill those roster holes remain. If the White Sox have doubts about their ability to multi-task Vaughn’s development, then it’s worth considering his value on the market.
Then again, what exactly would they be targeting in a deal? A regular second baseman or right fielder with similar team control and potential. Say, a Nick Madrigal type? I kid. But maybe they could pair Vaughn with Kimbrel to get a true in-their-prime superstar in return? Unfortunately, Kimbrel and Vaughn together offer the wrong blend of win-now and build-to-the-future potential for a team that might be willing to subtract a “true superstar.” Besides, there are only so many young players who have proven themselves to be Major League players that a team wants to surrender, even if they have holes to fill.
These deals happen, of course, and they’re rarely easy to spot before the trades are delivered to the league office. The Brewers and Rays excel at these types of deals, but they typically avoid any preciousness about their young players. The White Sox don’t have quite that history. Therefore, more than likely, Vaughn will continue his development as a member of the 2022 White Sox, sometimes playing right field, sometimes playing first base, always crushing lefties, and hopefully beginning to find his way to holding down an everyday spot in the lineup – and that much is true no matter what uniform he wears.
For Love of the Game
What a brilliant idea – reverse the Madrigal for Kimbrel trade by throwing in Vaughn! You gave away one valuable asset (Madrigal) for potential short-term help (Kimbrel). Now you can get back the guy you need (Madrigal) and get rid of a guy who didn’t work out (Kimbrel), by throwing in another budding star (Vaughn).
TC, that’s such a horrible idea that I could actually see Hahn thinking it over!
Highest IQ
Then Nick Madrigal ends up being a bust, they get Vaughn back by trading Eloy and Luis.
Please, Hammer. Don't hurt 'em.
Would Vaughn really be that terrible if they tried moving him to 2nd base? I know that’s not ideal but he’s basically positionless right now and 2nd base might not be THAT hard. At least he will have a short stop next to him to help. I know Vaughn is big for a 2nd baseman but he might be able to at least compare with 40 year old Robinson Cano defensively. It might be worth it since they have nowhere else to put Vaughn and no one else to play 2nd base. If not that then they may be able to trade Kimbrel and/or Keuchel for Cano. The Mets might even throw some cash in on that deal. (I tried to type this message before but autocorrect altered something I didn’t mean and put in the wrong word. Let me know what you think about Vaughn as a defensively limited possibility at 2nd base or the White Sox acquiring Cano though.)
sportingdissent
Vaughn is hardly decent fielding 1B and you want to try him at 2B?
White Sox pitchers would revolt.
Vaughn was a future DH that they found out could actually play a decent LF. He’s positionless because they won’t end the Eloy experiment in left. DH is his only real option now.
PutPeteinthehall
I agree and I’d rather see Vaughn in left and Eloy as a DH.
BartoloHRball
Most Met fans would welcome Kimbrel for Cano…like 95% of us. He is definitely a wildcard this season because he supposedly looked pretty good playing winter league ball in the dominican. He still can hit, and he’ll be chasing 3000 hits (currently at 2624). He is limited in the field these days, but he could probably do best rotating with 2-3 days in the field and 1 at DH or bench. I think the CWS have a jammed DH already, so that limits things. There were some advanced stats from 2019 I think that showed he did much much better after a day off, but the Mets played him every day bc….Mets. I’m curious if he juices and hopes to not get caught because he seemed pretty solid when he did juice.
johnrealtime
Kimbrel trade aside, Hahn has done a great job for the Sox. Interesting how one trade changes the narrative on a GM’s success for a lot of fans
sportingdissent
No amount of success will erase James Shields for Fernando Tatis Jr.
nrd1138
Hahn really has not.. and Im a Hahn apologist.. Tatis Jr aside, look at his entire career and he really is KW 2.0, last midseason trades proved that. What Robert? Robert was a no brainer, anyone could have seen that guy being good (and many many teams did). Getting Kopech and Moncada for Sale? I dunno, I mean Moncada (when he is not ‘hurt’, looks pretty pedestrian most times to me, and Kopech looked good, until he got lit up like a Christmas tree against the Astros in the play offs). Getting JImenez and Cease for Quintana? The Cubs were desperate, Im guessing Hahn asked for both jokingly and Epstein said ‘sure’ to Hahn’s surprise… BTW, Jimenez and Cease have shown me little so far to say the Sox really won that trade. They should be good players, but right now both still look like they should be in the minors (that is when Eloy is not injured). That is just the recent past, go back to the guys like Keppinger and some of his other ‘expert’ acquisitions. Yeah, i get that he is spending Jerry’s money and what not, but he really is not as good as people make him out to be at this point.
ASapsFables
nrd1138:
“Jimenez and Cease have shown me little so far to say the Sox really won that trade. They should be good players, but right now both still look like they should be in the minors (that is when Eloy is not injured).”
wtf
Franklin
How many years of age between Madrigal and Kimbrel? Sox needed another closer more than a second baseman? Not to say the difference in money. The Sox have history of getting the bad side of a trade. Hahn has taken risks but he has done well. He is a keeper. I have followed the White Sox since 1950. I have seen good and bad trades. But that’s the nature of Baseball. Just never give up on them
Highest IQ
Trading Nick Madrigal was stupid but at least it doesn’t top trading Tatis for James Shields.
hiflew
Tatis was a nobody when that trade happened. IIRC, Erik Johnson was the more highly touted player in that deal for the Padres by most analysts. Tatis was just in effect a lottery ticket throw in.
mike127
Tatis wasn’t a nobody when it happened. Two problems with that trade—the Padres saw something (the Sox missed) and it panned out—but more importantly. James Shields for the next 2 years was the WORST (ok–one of three) starting pitcher in baseball when he was supposed to be the “last piece” ala Kimbrel, to a championship.
The issue for the Sox is not how good Tatis has become, it’s how truly BAD Shields was.
beastee
Padres GM LIED about James Shield health and this has been well documented. Last year’s hilarious Padre fail was surely satisfying as some karma for Preller’s shady tactics.
PeteWard8
How come nobody ever mentions Tatis Jr. stinks at fielding?
When he moves to a corner outfield spot next year will he be tossed to the side like Castellanos?
BeeVeeTee
Why do people continue to forget that Tim Anderson was blocking Fernando Tatis Jr. when that trade happened with the Padres? It seems to me that people either have bad memories or just plain ignorant.
Sky14
Tatis had a 6.6 WAR in 130 games last year and he was hurt. Doesn’t matter where he’s deployed, he’s one of the best in the game.
ChiSox_Fan
How’s that Lou Brock trade working out for you Cubbie fans?!
Not to mention the Q trade?! Ha!!
Sox have soon-to-be 2022 MVP in SS TA#7! Don’t need injury-prone Tatis.
For Love of the Game
Sure, try to convince yourself that the Shields/Tatis trade wasn’t as disastrous as it really was! Admit it, you’d love to have that one back!
stymeedone
@Chisox fan.
Cubs trade for Quintana resulted in Cubs winning a WS. Don’t think they have any misgivings. Unfortunately, Kimbral have the same results for the Southsiders.
Also, why is it you don’t have a reply option on your comments? Are you too sensitive to handle replies?
The Baseball Fan
Stymeedone- I know you would really love a world where that were true but news flash- the trade was in 2017. Have the Cubs won a World Series since 2017? I don’t think so… maybe do a LITTLE more research before trying to eat something out on a topic you clearly don’t know much about. Is that a good enough reply for you?
sckoul
False. Cubs got Q in offseason after winning WS. Q has never won a WS.
Augusto Barojas
Does anybody have a link to Quintana’s stats on the Cubs in 2016? I was unaware he was on the team. I’m pretty sure that’s the year they won the WS, unless they won another one and I slept through it.
The Baseball Fan
Exactly right. Even if they did win a World Series with Quintana the Sox STILL would have won the trade
Rallyshirt
In Chicago, Tatis Jr. doesn’t come remotely close to our beloved Dennis Rodman.
Led Hoyer
Eloy has a career WAR of 3.5 and Cease a career WAR of 3. Quintana was a solid starter for 3 years. It certainly hasn’t been the fleecing everyone makes it out to be. Maybe eventually but as of last year the Sox were scared to actually let Cease pitch in the playoffs and Eloy was a below average defender and a league average hitter, scary.
The Baseball Fan
Did you not know that Cease and Jimenez have less than half as much playing time? and yet still use the “Career WAR” card. Any person who has half a brain and knowledge of baseball would know that the White Sox won the trade.
maximumvelocity
You win cherry-picked argument of the day!
Cease was a Cy Young candidate last season, and Eloy was coming back from an injury, a season after he was a solid performer.
Q was nothing more than a mid-rotation guy who got worse each year with the Cubs.
Eric Olson 2
They didn’t win a ws with Quintana. They acquired him AFTER they went to WS.
Led Hoyer
Eloy played 55 games last year because he was injured. He was also injured in 2019. When he did play last year he wasn’t good. What should I use to determine how good a player is in baseball? 3 years of his contract are up and he’s compiled a 3.5 war. The cubs traded 6 years of control. Frank Schwindel who the cubs got off the scrap heap compiled half of that in 56 games last year. Eventually all that potential is going to have to perform on the baseball field.
Led Hoyer
Cease was a Cy young candidate? I must of missed this news with his zero votes and being used as an opener in the playoffs. I guess Quintana was a 3 type Cy young candidate for the cubs too
PeteWard8
I ain’t sold on Jimenez either at this time
maximumvelocity
You have no issue talking about 2019 – his rookie season, and 2021, when he returned from a significant injury . . .
Yet completely ignoring 2020 when he had an OPS+ of 139 is the definition of cherry picking.
Led Hoyer
I added that into his career WAR. What are you talking about? In fact that season accounts for most of it.
tstats
Prorate that to a full season and you get a much sexier number
Ogie Oglethorpe
Dumpster Divin Rick
ChiSox_Fan
Trading Vaughn makes no sense.
Abreu won’t play 1B forever.
hiflew
Of course, Vaughn won’t play 1B forever either.
ChiSox_Fan
No, Vaughn will eventually retire and 5 years later be a first ballot HOF inductee.
David Barista
I think the WhiteSox need to consolidate some assets…. Sheets and Vaughn both need everyday at bats to develop at MLB level
Bruin1012
The White Sox should explore a trade for Ketel Marte with Andrew Vaughn fronted trade. It would cost more then just Andrew Vaughn but perhaps something can be worked out with a couple more prospects on top of Vaughn. The White Sox would get there second baseman and the D backs could pencil Vaughn in at first for the next five seasons.
Oddvark
Ketel Marte is about the only player who might be on the market that it would make sense to trade Vaughn for. But I don’t think it’s going to happen.
beastee
Diamondbacks have Seth Beer. Why would they need Vaughn?
Bruin1012
The reason is because Seth Beer is a DH. Vaughn will take over first he is a better defender and let’s not pretend that Beer is even in the same league as Vaughn offensively.
Joey Slye-vermectin
Dh probably coming to NL. Vaughn and Beer can rotate 1st and DH.
bootsday29
Congratulations I think you are the first to call the area around the Cell Armour Square.
maximumvelocity
Vaughn trajectory reminds me a lot of Robin Ventura. Ventura was an elite college bat who only spent a short period of time in the minors. He flashed, but struggled mightily against LHP in his first full year. But then he figured it out and became a solid compliment to Frank Thomas.
The team just needs to have faith that he will progress, based on his pedigree, and not even entertain trading him. A platoon this year with Sheets at DH would not stunt his growth, and would most like form a solid output from the position.
For Love of the Game
Platooning WILL stunt Vaughn’s growth. He needs to learn to hit righties by…hitting righties!
maximumvelocity
He will hit plenty of RHP next season when he spells Eloy and Abreu.
But given the team is in a win-now mode, a platoon makes the most sense. They can left him mash LHP and pick spots with RHP while not hurting the competitiveness of the team.
Angelic Visitations
I doubt Vaughn is available. With Madrigal, they were bold, and there were legitimate questions pertaining to Madrigal’s speed and plate discipline. The feeling was that sure, he might win a batting title, but without an elite OBP, no power and merely common speed, it would be an empty batting average.
Those aren’t fair critiques. Madrigal is quite a bit more than that. But if you squint hard enough you can make that case. But with Vaughn, no amount of squinting changes the fact that he’s going to be an elite offensive weapon for years to come. The White Sox rushed him, he should’ve been in AA or AAA, and he should just play 1B. So it might take a year or two, but there likely won’t be any middle ground.
He’ll go from his current iteration to all star slugger in no time flat.
Oddvark
I like Madrigal, but another concern is that he could be a big injury risk after suffering significant injuries in his first two seasons. I admire that he gives full effort when he plays, but I’m now not sure that his body can handle it.
He seems like a good kid, and I hope that he does well with the Cubs. But I can understand if that injury history being a big part of why the Sox were willing to trade him.
I also continue to have high hopes for Vaughn.
ASapsFables
Injuries have plagued virtually every top White Sox talent throughout their early careers, both in the minors and at the MLB level.
Luis Robert had his MLB debut delayed due to numerous injuries early on before he suffered his torn hip flexor early last May that wound up costing him the middle three months of the 2021 season.
Eloy Jimenez had spent ample time on the IL throughout his professional career and his track record of stints has only increased since his MLB debut.
Older but still young talents like Tim Anderson and Yoan Moncada have had numerous trips to the IL since their MLB debuts, experiencing even more time there in recent seasons.
It seems the only starter who can remain healthy and on the field consistently every year is Jose Abreu who only failed to achieve at least 600 PA’s once in a full season, back in 2018 when he was disabled with non-baseball injuries that included testicular torsion and a thigh infection from an ingrown hair. (ouch!).
Of course, the White Sox are hardly the only team inflicted with injuries but they have increased substantially following the retirement of long time trainer Herm Schneider. The White Sox fired their latest trainer this past offseason in the wake of all their injuries sustained in 2021.
Joey Slye-vermectin
Call the Rockies about Ryan McMahon
Call the Diamondbacks about Ketel Marte, probably would require giving up Andrew Vaughn in the deal
Doubtful but call the Royals about Adalbero Mondesi
Call the Rays about Taylor Walla shift Tim Anderson to 2nd
Call the Athletics about Tony Kemp or Chad Pinder (think hes played 2B for them). Athletic may be in fire sale mode if theyre looking to unload chapman olson manea and others.
White Sox have options on the trade market.
king joffrey
Call your friends? Call your neighbors?…
Joey Slye-vermectin
Hide yo kids hide yo wives
DB16
Call Al Bundy, he once hit 7 homers in 1 game.
Rallyshirt
Just call…
AHH-Rox
McMahon would only be expendable if the Rockies sign Bryant, which I think is unlikely.
tstats
You forget it is the Rockies
ICoachHoops
This really isn’t that hard. As the conclusion of this article suggests play Vaughn (24) in RF and 1B, let Sheets (26) play RF and 1B, Abreu (35) plays 1B and DH (especially as he ages and gets less mobile. Then once Abreu is pretty much a full time DH like Frank Thomas was then whoever has the better glove at 1B of Sheets and Vaughn they win the job at 1B and the other stays in RF. Abreu has at MOST 5 MLB seasons left and at most 3 seasons at 1B, Vaughn will be entering or in his prime years by this time and at the end of arbitration.
*Ages in (#) reflect what age they’ll be at the conclusion of 2022
Augusto Barojas
All this bellyaching about Madrigal. He’s shown himself to be an average fielder at best so far, has no power, and does not walk. Even if he hits .300 forever, he is not even a high OBP guy. If things went well for him, best case he is a league average 2b or slightly below. It’s not like he is going to be Altuve, and the only reason he will probably ever make an allstar team is if he is the Cubs lone representative. And he has been injury prone.
That being said, Vaugh’s ceiling is way higher than Madrigal. Probably not in 2022 but at some point Vaughn is going to hit a lot of homers with a really good OPS. He raked even against righties for a few weeks mid season even if he tanked toward the end, he is going to be a very solid hitter. As someone said, Marte is about the only guy it would make sense to trade him for. I highly doubt he’s going anywhere, but Hahn and company are not the brightest guys in the room so you never know.
stubby66
I wonder if a trade for Houser and Tellez for Vaughn would be possible. Now before anybody rips on this idea I don’t even know if the Brewers would consider this deal. Now instead of Tellez maybe Huira
Augusto Barojas
Even if the Brewers would do it, I see no reason why the Sox would. No chance.
ASapsFables
I’m with you on your assessment of Andrew Vaughn. As for Nick Madrigal, not so much.
Madrigal was considered to have the highest floor of all the White Sox top-100 prospects when he appeared on the list alongside Vaughn and even Luis Robert. Madrigal had that distinction over Vaugn because he was a middle infielder with plus fielding and run tools in addition to his plus/plus hit grade fueled by his elite contact ability.
Clearly Robert also plays a premium up-the middle defensive position as well and possesses even better speed than Madrigal. The biggest question mark with Robert as a prospect was his swing and miss issues. He also shared a concern with Madrigal in their future ability to draw walks on a consistent basis. Both Robert and Madrigal have shown the ability to improve their OBP via HBP’s (ouch!).
Clearly Vaughn and Robert have the higher ceilings over Madrigal based on their power potential. Nobody expects the diminutive Madrigal to duplicate the power of Jose Altuve. That said, he could approach the SLG percentage of another short 2B who was also a former MVP at 2B, Dustin Pedroia. Both Pedroia and Madrigal had similar prospect grades coming out of college and throughout their early pro careers. Even if Madrigal comes short in the power department he should still maintain an ability to be a perennial contender for a league batting title.
I also believe the eventual implementation of the automated strike zone will benefit Madrigal even more than most other players because of his size. In his ‘short’ (lol) MLB career he has not been the beneficiary of too many close calls from umpires on borderline pitches. That won’t happen with a robo ump which will help keep Madrigal from aggressively chasing so many non-strikes over time. I believe with experience he will settle into his role as a high BA/OPB top of the order force who could become a great leadoff hitter or the quissentential traditional #2 batter with his elite contact tool and ability to spray the ball to all fields regardless of the count. As a longtime baseball fan I hope hitters like Madrigal will once again become more the norm in MLB where contact is appreciated and the reason to implement shifts is greatly reduced.
PeteWard8
Aaron do you remember Harry Chappas?
ASapsFables
Of course. I don’t see a comp with him and Madrigal. Chappas was never as highly regarded a prospect as Madrigal. He never achieved Madrigal’s numbers in the minors either. If you want a better comp of Madrigal to a former White Sox diminutive infielder, Nellie Fox would be a better one.
to4
I would keep everything as is. Use Kimbrel as the CL and Hendricks as a guy like Williams from the Brewers. Sore off what they have with Haden/Williams. Maybe they could trade Vaughn for Suarez straight up and switch Moncada back to 2B if they want to get creative.
1.Anderson SS
2.Robert CF
3.Moncada 2B
4.Abreu 1B
5.Grandal C
6.Jimenez LF
7.Suarez/or Vaughn 3B
8.Sheets DH
9.Cespedes RF
Collin C, Garcia Util, Engel OF and someone else for a bench.
1.Giolito
2.Cease
3.Keuchel
4.Lynn
5.Lopez/Kopech/Or Crochet
If they can’t bring Rodon back. Bullpen is set with
Severino LR
Ruiz MR
Kopech MR
Bummer SU
Crochet SU
Hendricks SU
Kimbrel CL
Aside other guys they have like Foster and Burr they decide to use Kopech as a SP.
For Love of the Game
Pretty fierce looking team. I’d leave Hendricks as closer, disagree on Keuchel as #3 (easily Lynn), and not sure about slotting Cespedes in the lineup as a 24 year old with only a brief taste of AA ball. But the White Sox seem like a lock for the postseason.
to4
Cespedes should start the season with Chicago. I don’t see why not as they might have the solution to their 2B, RF, SP problems in house as you can see on my previous comment
Graveman
Kimbrel
Hendricks
Will make a formidable start trio at the back end of the bullpen regardless of who CL. I would prefer Kimbrel and use Hendricks as a SU or just use all three of them in different situations.
whiteysox
Saw plenty of Cespedas in Arizona Fall League. DEFINITELY not ready
ChiSox_Fan
Kendall Graveman?!
to4
I forgot they signed him. Much much better bullpen then and is all but certain that Kopech and Crochet will start some games and transition towards the rotation.
tstats
I like Ruiz sm
to4
He seems to be solid. Let’s see what he does in 2022.
John Kappel
You just made the White Sox worse at both 2B and 3B, and offensively worse at RF too. That line up literally makes no sense. Yoan is not going back to 2B, full stop. He’s said it. Hahn has said it. He was a bad defensive 2B man and hit poorly during his time there as well. Abreu is in the last year of his 3 year deal and should likely retire semi soon. Vaughn is not a 3B player. Also Sheets looks completely adequate in RF since he’s been playing it for the last 2 years in the minors across two levels.
48-team MLB
Atlanta will see you in the World Series.
tstats
Atlanta isn’t making it to the WS next year and I don’t think the White Sox will. But hey, very much could be wrong but in that NLE they can either win or come in fourth and it would look random cause the division AS OF RN is jam packed for 5 80-90 win teams
Pete'sView
What I didn’t see mentioned directly in the post, was that the Whiote Sox want to unload Kimbrel’s $16M. Now, a team like say the Giants who can take on that contract IF they get a top prospect in return, might be interested.
Given that SF would take on the entire Kimbrel contract, would Vaughn go to the Giants with the Giants offering back LaStella or Dubon?
I know White Sox fans will moan that Vaughn is a future super star and that Hahn shouldn’t make that deal, but we all know prospects often don’t pan out, and that $16M could buy the Sox space for a Trevor Story or another rotation piece.
David Barista
The White Sox optioned to pay Kimbrell…. If they were looking to simply shed salary then they could have optioned to let him go to free agency…. I assume he will be playing for the White Sox aside from a very favorable trade for Chicago
Pete'sView
Perhaps, but I advance this from MLBTR:
“Keeping Kimbrel’s $16MM on the books gives the White Sox less flexibility for other moves this winter, as the Pale Hose are already projected for a team-record high number of roughly $180MM in 2022. Yet, if Hahn and company can move some other money around to get that second baseman or right fielder, or if ownership green-lights more spending, a Kimbrel deal wouldn’t be so critical to Chicago’s post-lockout plans.”
Jack Buckley
I saw Cespedes a fair amount in the Arizona Fall League, he sucks, he’s not a plan going forward
Big Hurt
Crazy thought – Vaughn’s a versatile athlete, it might not be the worst thing in the world to pencil him in at 2B this year, let Sheets/Engel play RF, and keep Kimbrel. True, I’d rather have Marte at 2nd or maybe Castellanos in RF (necessitating a trade of Kimbrel to clear money), but if none of that happens that might work. Vaughn will not be a great defensive 2b, but someone like Yolbert Sanchez could be late inning replacement and Engel could come in late in RF for Sheets on the days he plays. And Leury could run around to give breathers in every position.
Not my favorite scenario, but might solve some problems if they don’t go for anything bigger in FA or trade market.
ChiSoxCity
These guys write and say some of the dumbest things I see online from sports “media”. They never suggest any moves that significantly improve the roster. And the lopsided trade suggestions are nauseatingly stupid.
ChiSoxCity
Forgot to say anything they write pertaining to the Chicago White Sox.
tstats
Then don’t read it you brain dead fool
ChiSoxCity
Oh ok, I’m brain dead for expecting non-biased, thoughtful coverage of a cd professional organization. Hell, I’d have more respect for them if they simply openly admitted they only care about a handful of teams/markets. At least they’d be truthful and honest, for a change.
Rsox
There is zero reason to believe the White Sox can’t get the best out of Vaughn. We have to consider he lost a year of development in 2020 and basically was learning on the Job in Chicago. Learning to play the Outfield at the big league level didn’t help. Put him at 1B and DH Abreu, put him in LF and DH Jimenez, or DH Vaughn himself. Find him a spot and keep him there
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I’m not worried about Vaughn’s splits. He just needs more AB’s against righties. For a month, he was doing great before fatigue set in and, as the article states, he was learning four positions. Give him some stability and experience and he’ll be fine. Only player on the market I’d consider trading him for is K. Marte, but even then, I’m not sure I’d do it. Vaughn’s potential is too high to get rid of him for anything less than a stellar return.
Finlander
Dangerous to do an inter-division trade, but I could see a Vaughn to MN deal. Twins have an excess at 2B slot, and they could use some RH help at LF/1B. Sano’s likely gone after this year unless he really turns it around. Maybe build something around L Arraez and good prospect(s)? Arraez is not a gold glove candidate, but he has an elite eye, albeit no power. And he doesn’t show the platoon splits that Vaughn does. Outside of the division this looks more plausible..
Actually I could see the same type of deal NY could make sending Voit to MN for Arraez. So Chicago should jump on this! (Ha…spoken like a true division rival…)
Rsox
The White Sox are not trading Vaughn after one season. And definitely not to a division rival.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
And, with all due respect, not for Arraez.
neurogame
I never saw Kimbrel as “one of the best closers of [this] generation.” Taking a cursory look at his stats, he did lead the league in saves 4 years in a row and had 5 top 10 finishes in Cy Young voting. I guess it’s the erratics of the past few years of stats that have gotten me.
ASapsFables
I’m bullish enough on 1B Andrew Vaughn that I consider his production floor to be comparable to White Sox fan favorite Paul Konerko. His hit tool suggests a ceiling in the Jeff Bagwell stratosphere!
ChiSoxCity
I think it’s hilarious how national sports media clamors for “periphery” (irrelevant) teams to suddenly trade away young players like Vaughn to more “established” teams/markets, with little to nothing in return. They really couldn’t care less about the White Sox.
Rallyshirt
Considering 8 years ago we had Ventura at the helm, with Adam Dunn, Dayan Viciedo, Gordon Beckham, Jordan Danks and not one pitcher (not one) still with the organization today.
Jjfleury
The Sox are loaded. As a Twins fan I have to admit. They will be the team to beat for a good 6-10 year window unless they make some really bad trades or sign someone to a ridiculous contract that turns into a weight on the shoulders of their organization.
ChiSoxCity
The Sox window will close in 2-3 years if they’re lucky. They’re not adding talent to the roster like they claimed they would. I see Detroit and KC catching them this season.
pappyvw
No, they cannot
Franco22
Anderson only played 120 games, that’s the problem. Put Vaughn at third Moncada at 2b, Keep Garcia in the infield everyday where needed. Trade Anderson for another everyday player, he’ll be a free agent soon, Abreu is also one after next season. Time to find out Vaughn’s true potential. Mariners got 150 games from Seager and Crawford each. Sox infield defense has to improve , trade for Crawford.
ASapsFables
Your suggestion would weaken the White Sox infield defense at two positions minimally. Yoan Moncada is an excellent defensive third baseman who was moved off of second base because he was deemed inadequate there with the body of an NFL strong safety or weak side linebacker.
Andrew Vaughn is best suited to play 1B. His athleticism wanes in comparison to Moncada who has shown great instincts at the hot corner after his move off af 2B. Vaughn’s lack of speed makes his best fit at 1B or at DH. His bat gives him his highest ceiling as a potential generational hitter in MLB.
Franco22
The Sox defense is already inadequate, you can’t weaken it any further. What isn’t in the stats or your evaluation is games played. Even if you believe they are adequate they don’t help the team by not playing so your view is skewed. Mariners got more games from their 3B and SS. Each. Ozzie was a more reliable SS and as durable. TA should be traded for something of everyday value. Garcia can’t do it alone. Get CRAWFORD then you can
have Moncada at 3B and have more games played. Failure to turn DP’s is a Sox weakness.
ASapsFables
Who among the White Sox regulars hasn’t sustained frequent injuries during the past few years outside of Jose Abreu? Yoan Moncada has been just as susceptible to hamstring issues as Tim Anderson. Moncada was also negatively impacted from his contraction of COVID-19 once he returned to the lineup during the abbreviated 2020 season and still maintained he was not his normal self into last season.
We all know the injury issues the White Sox have had with most all their outfielders last season including Eloy Jimenez who is still waiting for a professional season where he doesn’t land on the IL. Nick Madrigal was another who spent as much time on the IL as off of it once he made his MLB debut. Yasmani Grandal missed a huge chunk of 2021 due to two injuries and was never fully healthy for his duties behind the plate. Even important part-timers like Adam Engel can’t stay healthy every season.
Your notion of replacing players based on their injury history would pretty much leave Rick Hahn trading away everybody on the White Sox this offseason (lol). Hopefully the firing of their team trainer following the conclusion of the season will help reverse some of the health issues the White Sox have suffered since the retirement of Herm Schneider 3 years ago.
Franco22
Again, you are not backing your views with stats.. Sox last year just 112 dp’s second from the league bottom and below the league team avg of 129. If I was a young Sox relief pitcher looking to get the team out a jam I would not want to count on the Sox infield I better I have a bevy of KO pitches. Your analogies are all hype not carefully researched. Moncada and. TA aren’t defensively adequate. According to baseball reference. com for 2021. They curtainly. aren’t in the top 5 of the league. If the team can’t turn dp’s there’s a huge problem with SS and 3B where right handed dominant teams hit to them.
Franco22
Sox got Hernandez for his defense then let him go. Same with gold glover Yolmer Sanchez and traded Madrigal. The infield is a mess. Why did they draft 4. SS this year !
ASapsFables
Your disdain for Tim Anderson is without merit. Aside from his obvious ability as an offensive force, his leadership qualities and being one of the “faces” of the team and MLB, he has demonstrated above average defensive skills at SS. You insist his defense is not supported by statistics but all one needs to do is link onto this sites Baseball Reference page to verify his acumen. The same goes for Yoan Moncada and his defensive ability at 3B in comparison to 2B.
Anderson has always been a SS throughout his professional career and has shown marked improvement as he gained experience. Moncada was primarily a 2B until assuming full duties as a 3B in 2019. His experience at the hot corner is less than Anderson’s at SS but Moncada has demonstrated great instincts at his new position after being too ‘mechanical’ at 2B.
Health has been a concern for both and it has negatively impacted an accumulated stat such as WAR. This is hardly a unique problem with the White Sox. Clearly the shortened 2020 COVID-19 schedule impacted WAR numbers across the board. There was also a notable escalation in injuries in 2020 and 2021, no doubt a result of the pandemics impact on the game.
Anderson might be the poster child of good health compared to this offseason’s top free agent, SS Carlos Correa. Corey Seager has also had some health concerns throughout his career as a Dodger but that didn’t prevent the Rangers from signing him to a 10 yrs/$325M contract ahead of the lockout. Francisco Lindor, the other most highly regarded and paid SS in MLB has also missed considerable time since playing virtually every game with the Indians through the 2018 season. Mike Trout is the game;s greatest player. How has his health been the past few years?
As for the White Sox ‘inability’ to turn double plays in 2021, there could be numerous reasons. Besides losing their starting 2B Nick Madrigal to a season ending injury in June, the team also features a pitching staff that is among the elite in all of MLB when it comes to striking out opposing hitters. Clearly there have been less opportunities for ground balls with such a staff. The one pitcher noted for inducing grounder is Dallas Keuchel. He had a miserable season in 2021 but was also a Cy Young Award finalist in 2020 with Tim Anderson at SS along with Madrigal at 2B who was making his MLB debut at the keystone. Madrigal also finished the 2020 season in less than perfect health after sustaining a shoulder injury that cost him nearly a month on the IL, one that required an additional surgical procedure in the offseason.
Franco22
All. You do is supply winded excuses. You obviously. are not looking at the team defensive stats that the Sox only had 112 dp’s. I didn’t print that baseball reference.com did. Grow up and face the printed facts. Geez! You are annoying !
ASapsFables
Bottom line: Your suggestion of trading Tim Anderson, moving Yoan Moncada back to 2B and handing Andrew Vaughn the starting 3B job to improve the White Sox infield defense is ludicrous. It should also be noted that your argument for trading Anderson because “he’ll be a free agent soon” is also way off base, pun intended. TA7 is ‘cheaply’ controlled by the White Sox for 3 more seasons, through 2024 with his guaranteed 2022 contract and two team options.
Franco22
All that for a player that called an opposing white pitcher the N word and then likened himself to Jackie Robinson. April 2019.against the Royals in the hotdog batflip episode. He has no class, Sox will get rid of him. You might get one year out of him before he is a free agent. He sat on the bench at the end of the year with what TLR claimed was just. tired legs. He only played 120 Games Moncada played 144