After coming up short in this year’s Wild Card race, the Reds’ offseason has mostly continued along sour lines for the team’s fans. On the first day of the offseason, Tucker Barnhart was sent packing to Detroit. Shortly after that, GM Nick Krall said that the club “must align our payroll to our resources,” seemingly forecasting a gloomy winter of budget cuts in Cincinnati. That was followed by Nick Castellanos opting out of his contract and rejecting a qualifying offer. Then, Wade Miley was claimed on waivers by the division-rival Cubs, despite Miley having a $10MM club option for 2022 — an eminently reasonable salary for a pitcher who was worth 2.9 fWAR (per FanGraphs) or 5.6 bWAR (according to Baseball Reference).
In the four weeks since that time, all of the rumours surrounding the club have been about other teams circling their rotation like vultures, trying to acquire Luis Castillo, Sonny Gray or Tyler Mahle. It’s fairly logical that teams would come calling for those three talented arms, as they all come with two years of inexpensive control and pitching is simply always in demand. However, if you’re the Reds and you want to shave money off your payroll, a preferable option might be someone whose name hasn’t come up in trade rumors at all: Mike Moustakas.
“Moose” has two years remaining on the four-year, $64MM deal he signed two years ago, then the largest free agent signing in Reds franchise history. (That mark was tied the following month with the deal for Castellanos.) Moustakas will make $16MM in 2022, $18MM in 2023 and then Cincinnati holds a $20MM club option for 2024 that comes with a $4MM buyout.
That $16MM salary for 2022 makes him the second-highest paid player on team, trailing only Joey Votto. Moving that contract could therefore save about as much money as moving two of their three in-demand starters, given that Gray will be making $10.7 million this year, and Castillo and Mahle are projected to earn arbitration salaries of $7.6MM and $5.6MM, respectively. It also makes sense to move Moustakas given that his incumbent position of second base has been taken over by Jonathan India, who had a breakout season in 2021, earning himself the NL Rookie of the Year award in the process.
The trouble for Cincy is that trading Moustakas now would be selling low, as he just had an injury-ravaged campaign that was his worst in years, maybe the worst of his career. The infielder made multiple trips to the injured list due to issues with his heel, resulting in 62 games and 206 plate appearance. Even when he could take the field, Moustakas didn’t look like his old self. From 2015 to 2020, Moustakas hit .262/.326/.490, which amounts to a wRC+ of 113 and 12.5 fWAR. In 2021, he slashed a meager .208/.282/.372, producing a wRC+ of 70 and negative 0.4 fWAR — both career worsts.
Trading players when their value is low is generally unwise strategy, but for a Reds team on a limited budget, it might be the least-bad option they have. On paper, they currently have a platoon at third base, with Moustakas sharing time with Eugenio Suarez. However, Suarez is also coming off a down season and doesn’t have injuries to blame for it (although he could blame the team’s ill-advised attempts to turn him into a shortstop at the age of 29). Suarez has three years and $35MM left on his deal, with a salary of $11.3MM in 2022. That means the club currently has over $27MM dedicated to third base, between Suarez and Moustakas. For a club looking to cut costs, that seems even less wise than trading low on one of them.
Despite coming off a terrible campaign, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that another club could see the reasons for optimism. At 33, Moustakas is not too old to return to his previous form, as evidenced by his teammate Votto, who just had a tremendous year in his age-37 season. If he can return to health, he could be seen as an intriguing buy-low candidate. However, would a team give up anything of value for Moustakas while Kyle Seager is just sitting there on the open market?
Seager is less than a year older than Moustakas, has never had serious injury issues, and MLBTR predicts Seager for a deal in the range of two years and $24MM. Brad Miller, Josh Harrison or Jonathan Villar represent even less-expensive third base options on the open market. Win-now teams would also presumably be more interested in a trade candidate like Matt Chapman, assuming Oakland follows through on their planned selloff.
That means the Reds would almost certainly have to sweeten the pot of any Moose-based deal, perhaps including prospects. For a recent example, the Brewers recently traded Jackie Bradley Jr., who was also coming off arguably the worst season of his career. They had to include a pair of prospects, but still got a useful player out of the deal in the form of Hunter Renfroe.
The Reds’ front office seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place, as while they weren’t good enough in 2021 and need to improve, they haven’t been given enough money from ownership to do so. On the other hand, Cincinnati also has too much young talent to go into a full rebuild, with India, Tyler Stephenson, Vladimir Gutierrez, Lucas Sims, Jose Barrero, Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo forming a nice core of cheap and controllable players, alongside veterans like Votto, Suarez, Jesse Winker, and the rotation trio of Castillo, Gray and Mahle. Finding a version of the Renfroe trade could be their best path to supplementing a talented roster, instead of subtracting from it by trading one of their starting pitchers.
Perhaps a team like the Nationals would be interested in Moustakas and a couple of prospects? After all, they’ve just undergone a big selloff and seem unlikely to be aggressive in returning to contention in the short term. After running payrolls near $200MM in many recent years, the Nats are only projected at $118MM for 2022, according to Jason Martinez of Roster Resource. They could easily take on the $16MM owed to Moose and have him off the books by their last year of control over Juan Soto in 2024. Moustakas would also give Washington a fallback option in the event Carter Kieboom continues with his struggles at the MLB level.
The Diamondbacks have a tall hill to climb in order to return to being competitive, as they are staring up at the Dodgers, Giants and Padres. They only have about $85MM on the books for 2022, per Martinez, but have had payrolls in the range of $130MM in recent years, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. They currently have Josh Rojas penciled in at third base, but he’s actually played at second more often so far. If the long-rumored Ketel Marte trade ever comes to fruition, Rojas could take over at second with Moose at third.
The Rockies are interested in adding a third baseman, as evidenced by their rumored interest in Kris Bryant. But if Bryant goes elsewhere, why not take on Moustakas and hope that he can use the Colorado air to get back into a groove at the plate? As notable as Moustakas’ salary is, his $16MM figure is certainly lower than what Bryant will earn in free agency.
And let’s not discount the possibility of a competitive team believing enough in a Moustakas bounceback to look for this kind of a deal. After all, the Red Sox just made it at far as the ALCS in 2021, but they’re now taking on extra prospects and crossing their fingers in the hope of Bradley rebounding from a brutal offensive year. Bradley comes with a higher floor than Moustakas because of his excellent glovework, but still, the logic is similar. Buy low on a big leaguer and make a wish, while filling out your team’s prospect pipeline. Even if the Reds can’t get themselves an exciting return on a deal like this, the real return would be hanging onto Castillo, Gray and Mahle for another couple of runs at the NL Central while the Pirates and Cubs are retooling.
Cubs likely interested!
Lol no
Thanks for the article but Moose seems nearly untradeable to me. Maybe packaging him with Gray and some money could net something of good value. Thoughts?
You’re right….unless the Reds pay the salary which defeats the purpose
I think they’re more likely correct that it’d have to be a package with prospects scenario. Packaging with Gray I think would lessen their return on that. If they can get 3 prospects for Gray but have to trade 2 with Moose, they are least net 1 prospect. If they trade Gray with Moose they may have to take a lottery type prospect.
You must be a really good friend, chum, pal, amigo of ChiSox_Fan, since you are the only who was aware of all that stupidity he writes. Nobody cares what he says…
You must be a really good friend, chum, pal, amigo of ChiSox_Fan, since you are the only who was aware of all that stupidity he writes. Nobody cares what he says…
Moose for JayHey? Both have awful contracts and could use a change of scenery. The two clubs can settle up on the $ difference.
A change of scenery isn’t gonna change the talent level of the players involved.
JayHey has a no trade clause. I don’t think the Reds would go for that either. Heyward is one of the few players that actually has a worse contract than Moose. They are trying to get less expensive but acquiring Heyward would make them more expensive and worse. Moose might benefit from a change of scenery but I think Heyward is just going to be bad wherever he goes. The Cubs are just stuck with Heyward unless they are willing to attach good prospects along with him to get some team to eat that terrible contract. They might as well keep the prospects and just let the contract run it’s course. No teams believe Heyward would actually improve their roster.
I think he had a full no trade for the first 3 years then it went to a limited. However he does has 10-5 rights
Josh Harrison is from Cincinnati. I’m sure he would have no problems with going home.
They’re talking about Jason Heyward of the Cubs
Possible. I would rather have saurez. But Depending the rest of the trade he could be insurance at 3rd if Wisdom’s k rate ends up making him unplayable. Of course Cubs could just sign Seagar or Miller.
Moustakas for Heyward. straight up.
Defeats the purpose of removing money from the books
no org is going to send even low a. prospects for moustakas and take on that contact.. Even the cubs sent cash with Rizzo and Bryant on good contracts. Swap of bad contacts is best.
What about moose and gray to the jays for Grichuk and a couple lower level prospects.
No way! Not even a taxidermist is interested in this moose.
Hard pass x1000
Lol none of those teams want Moose. I guess we are in for a bunch of pointless articles now that the lockout has started. Like yeah, the Rockies wouldn’t give Jon Gray the QO but they’re gonna take on Moustakas’ awful contract? Come on with this nonsense. And finding their “version of the Renfroe trade” makes no sense cause that means they would barely be saving any money…. Which was the entire point of trading Moose…
Amen to that, this is the most ridiculous article yet, saying the Reds don’t want to sell low. Both of these players forgot how to hit a baseball long ago…lol.
That line floored me along with the comment that at his age he could turn it around.
His salary increases yearly, he’s 33 and no one wanted him when the Reds signed him.
It’s just hilariously dumb. The author did not explain whatsoever how the Reds can somehow trade Moose and save money? But they’d also be taking someone back like Renfroe in the example used in the article? So then they wouldn’t be saving money? But they would still be able to keep Gray/Castillo/Mahle? This author is drunk.
I’d be fine with a even contract swap as long as the contract coming back filled a need. Like getting a bad contract CF Moose is a 3b that can poorly play other positions but those other positions are full and of the reds 3b combo he’s the one with most value.
Article written by applicant for future Fantasy Baseball Writer.
*complains about writing on a free site*
“Complaints about anonymous fan posts”
I can see it, if the Reds want to tack on a good prospect or two. They can get someone to take on Moose’s contract and even get a useful cheap player back. Just depends on how good a prospect they’re willing to tack. Or alternately, they could attach Moose to one of their pitchers and take a smaller return.
I mean…if the Reds were willing to attach someone like De La Cruz or Hendrick plus pieces it could happen. The result would just be a pretty large blow to their farm system.
They’ve gone on the record stating they will not attach prospects to shed salary
I’m just responding to the theoretical concept of this article. You know, the one about how the reds should attach prospects do shed the Moustakas contract. The one we’re commenting on?
Yasss let the Moose loose
No team will be willing to take Moose’s contract, first he’s anemic offensively and lacks the range to play second or third base any longer. He’s a DH at best and a weak one at that. Suarez lost his way two years ago and is just an enigma for the Reds, no team in their right mind would want Suarez, he just can’t hit any more. So the narrative of selling low is ridiculous and insane.
Moose tracks for the taking? Why not? Nice power lefty bat for someone out there.
Why not? Cause of his contract and his stats, that’s why not. Lol
@rols1026- oh my bad. I thought the Reds were going to cut the moose loose? (Release)
The guy had hit an average of 9 home runs over the past two seasons. Combine that with a .208 average and nobody wants him
Cano for Moustakas swap, Mets add Vientos to the deal. Who says no?
Heck NO, I rather have Cano than a guy who can’t hold the bat right any longer. Moose can’t hit a softball, let alone a baseball coming at him at 90 plus.
At least Moustakas has enough sense to not get busted for PEDs TWICE in the span of 3 seasons…
Robbie would be doing the Mets a real favor if he can make it 3 PED suspensions in 4 years.
Reds say no only because of cash. Both players are a waste of space but Cano is making more. If the Reds need to cut salary there’s no way they can take on Cano
Supposedly a Mets priority is trying to have a decent farm system. Wouldn’t let Vientos go, and there’s no takers in league for Cano with his money remaining and stigma of PEDs
Mauricio and Baty are thirdbasemen, no room for Vientos
@Metsin7- the Mets say no. One of the reasons Starling Marte signed with the Mets was to play with his steroid idol Robinson Cano. Now their going to trade Cano? That wouldn’t make sense.
You don’t keep a player just because another player is friends with him
As soon as you add Vientos Mets hang laughing
Mets say no
I would rather see Cano playing second base with a needle sticking out of his arm than have Moose on the Mets…
They’d have to attach a prospect to move him.
It’s not clear what urgencies might drive other teams to make this type of a deal, unless a considerable amount of prospect value could be derived. Moose has a career slash line of .249/.309/.349 and an OPS+ of 99. From 2015-2019, presumably his prime, age 26-30, he was consistently slightly above average, but his career high in WAR was 4.1, in 2015, and he’s never been close since–especially the last two years. Maybe he has something in the tank…but to what level? How much is someone willing to pay for maybe a 2 WAR player? Maybe, and not on an expiring contract.
There is zero urgency or any reason at all why any team would trade for Moose. This author was clearly just bored.
People complained when the Brewers let Moose/Grandal walk
I was one who said good riddance we dont want to commit years and money to them. Look at those 2 now…clogs on a roster currently who cant stay healthy.
Those two players are not in the same category. Grandal is still excellent when healthy and put up nearly 4 fWAR this year. Any team would love to have him. Moose is a complete waste of space
Can’t add much value to your club when you’re on the IL more than you’re on the field…
Well he added roughly 4 wins above replacement so you’re wrong
He still played 93 games, which considering he was hurt, is a good amount for a catcher anymore. Most regular backstops play 110-120 games anyway.
Grandal missed alot of time and still out performed the Brewers catchers.
Narvaez did trail off towards the end of the season, but he matched Posey’s offensive production from the catcher position through the first half of the season. He was named to the ASG squad, after all.
I think there’s a deal to be made between the Blue Jays and Reds. Moose to the Jays for Grichuk and a couple of low-level prospects. That allows the Jays to move Biggio back to 2B where he belongs and gives them the lefty hitting 3B they need. Grichuk would replace Castellanos in the OF for the Reds, and they could still look to trade him too if they preferred.
Zero percent chance the Jays do that. Come on now
You obviously don’t know the situation then. They just tried to trade him for Jackie Bradley, Jr. because Canada is not allowing non-vaccinated players to enter the country next year. While teams don’t disclose who is and is not vaccinated, you can read between the lines on Grichuk. All indications are that he is not vaccinated. The Blue Jays have to move him. They don’t have the luxury of trade leverage. A trade for Moose, while not ideal, would at least allow them to plug a whole at 3B while leaving enough money to get one more starter and one more reliever. All this is assuming Moose if vaccinated, of course.
Many posters won’t understand the concept of trading one liability for a better liability.
The trade for Bradley didnt make sense bc like a 1 for 1 for the Moose, they would hv been adding a ton of weak salary for a passable salary like Grichuk….if the other team adds value, like Gray, it then makes more sense….and the Jays hv been trying to move Grichuk and his salary since before the pandemic tbh so i dont understand why u would think its bc of his vaccination status which u r simply guessing at
Yes, I am guessing at that. However, I don’t recall hearing that the Jays were attempting to move Grichuk since before the pandemic. That would have been two years ago after the 2019 season, which was only a year after he signed his extension. I’m not sure that’s accurate.
I just realized I said the Blue Jays could send prospects along with Grichuk. I meant it the other way around. Moose + prospects to the Jays for Gruchuk. Sorry, my bad.
I could see this as well, but only if the Reds included 1 of their 3 avail starters with the Moose,, Sonny Grey would prob be enough for the Jays…….theres zero chance of the Jays including prospects going back as they would be taking on $38 million of the Moose’s salary while giving up only $18 Million of Grichuk’s….but they do want a LH hitter for 2nd/3rd base and adding Gray to their rotation would allow them to fill their final rotation spot
Yeah, I re-read what I wrote, and I said it backwards. What I meant was Moose + a couple of low-level prospects to the Jays for Grichuk. I agree the Blue Jays wouldn’t make that trade if they were the ones sending prospects.
Grichuk isn’t worth Grey by himself. The Reds aren’t giving away one of the three pitchers just to get rid of Moose.
Depends on how badly they wanna cut their payroll……they’d save a fortune getting rid of the Moose and another 10.7mil on Gray for next season and they’d add an outfielder who can play CF passably which is a need for the Reds….not sure they dont go for it tbh….but id rather see the Jays offer Grichuk to the Phillies for Didi……allows an option at 3rd next season(could be a platoon with Espinol) and gives them another lefty bat in the lineup which they need and Didi is only signed for next year vs the Moose…..and Phillies r dying to get rid of Gregorius
Moose isn’t worth a couple of low level prospects
Price Andre Jackson and Mitch White for Luis Castillo and Moose
I feel like all the “small” market teams – As, Guardians, Pirates, Reds, Rays – were in something of a holding pattern before the lockout. New CBA rules affect them more than big teams. If, for instance, there is a salary floor in place it makes holding onto Moose (as well as everyone on the As) a better bet
The Cincinnati Reds would need to package the negative value of Mike Moustakas with the surplus value of Sonny Gray, Tyler Mahle or Luis Castillo to make a deal.
With money to spend, the Seattle Mariners — looking for a lefthanded bat, a third baseman and pitching depth — might be interested.
Or not
Exactly correct.
Padres seem to have a penchant for bad contracts and an infinite number of slots on their 40-man roster (at least it seems that way), so they’d probably take Moose and Suarez along with one of their SPs if CIN takes Wil Myers off their hands. I know SD fans will say that makes no sense, but neither did the Adam Frazier or Jorge Alfaro acquisitions, but Preller made them any way.
That’s idiotic because you’re right wasting the value of Castillo or whomever only to get Mouse off the books. They’ll end up dealing him and eating a ton of money, probably half+
They did that with the Bailey deal. Cost them Jeter Downs and Josiah Gray. Burnt their value to get rid of Homer Bailey.
Actually, the Reds also took on Kemp’s salary. I’m not sure how much money changed hands, but Puig, Kemp & Wood combined for $41M.
just wasn’t a good signing to begin with.
Right… no one wanted this guy.
Another reason to first shed Moose is by doing so, the club no longer seems desperate to further cut payroll. Such should translate in a better chance of the club maxing out on a return on their pitching which should already be in high demand.
I like Moose but I don’t see him being much more than an average hitter the next few years. No club is going to take that contract without something more added.
Agree. I was hoping Moose coming to the Reds would allow him to achieve his potential. Injuries have slowed development to a crawl, now with age starting to get up there, I think the Reds are stuck with Moose. If he can get thru without injuries, Moose could return to the lineup on a regular basis.
It never made sense for the Reds to acquire 3B Mike Moustakas to begin with. 3B Eugenio Suarez was coming off an all star year and acquiring him as a 2B was just as mystifying.
Well, it was either Moose, or starting India at 2nd at minimum wage. So they obviously chose Moose.
Jonathan India was not in the mix.
At the time, the Refs were building a strong SP staff. I thought the Reds would go with a defensive minded SS Jose Iglesias – 2B Freddy Galvis IF to solidify the defense behind those SPs. Instead they destabilize the defense by using Moustakes out of position and acquired Nicholas Castellanos to wear out the staff.
The Reds wanted to improve offense but failed to recognize they needed to quit playing station-to-station offense.
I think the Reds are more likely to hang tight for the DH and hope for a bounce back. I doubt there is anyone different at the hot corner for the Reds next year – just Moustakas and Suarez trading off DH duties.
The Orioles could trade for him to replace Chris Davis.
I heard Chris Davis finally lost his parking place at Camden Yards.
All jokes aside there is a potential Mancini for Moose + prospects scenario that makes some sense.
Mancini is a terrible OF’er but the Reds played Castellanos out there. That’d save the Reds a bunch of money and the O’s get a body for 3B. Plus some prospects like Bos did.
No chance. Mancini has some value for much cheaper and O’s aren’t going to take on much salary at all, let alone another CD type.
“We sent Moose upstate to live with a nice family on a farm where he can run around.”
The Reds have a top 10 farm system…they should totally try to pull off the Renfroe/JBJ trade the Brewers just did. And Moose has more value than JBJ (although, more expensive).
I don’t know that Moose has more value. Being more expensive and not really having a defensive home probably limit his value. Bradley always has a glove if nothing else is working.
I agree. With any sort of reversion, JBJ could easily be a 2-WAR player. That said, I think Duffy is spot on, and I think Moose is a good fit for the RS.
I trust Dalbec, but if we had a competent lefty backup 1B, Dalbec;s risk goes down. Moose is just 33, the age where you are in decline, but don’t necessarily retire. Moose could easily revert back to a .750 OPS.
I find too many posters get caught in an on/off switch If Moose was a FA, asking for $1M to be a 1B/3B, everyone would be interested. The fact that he makes $19M per doesn’t change the benefit side of equation; only the cost side.
All Cincy has to do is to figure out how to reduce the cost side via prospects, cash, or a pitcher like Castillo.
This is the correct takeaway.
JBJ’s glove in CF gives him more value than Moose, imho.
Straight up, I think Moose vs JBJ are pretty equal in value right now, after really looking into everything. Mostly because JBJ’s glove is that good, but his offense is also that bad (historically, but especially after last year). What sets them apart is the money. Moose is owed 3 times the money JBJ is. The Reds should still try to move him, but they’ll have to give up some good prospects, or some money, to swing this. Moose will have value to someone, especially if they think last year was a fluke because of injury. But that $38 million price tag that comes with him…yikes
Terrible signing of Moustakas before the ink dried. Sunk cost. Only thing worse would be to package a prospect or two with him in a trade. Tried that once with Gray and Downs, was a disaster.
Castellini can choke on the contract or, better yet, sell the team to someone who can afford it.
After the kemp trade and this I am firing someone. Not giving them a promotion.
They should just dump Votto and stop pretending to be anything but bottom-feeders. Albatross contract for a team that can’t afford good players on market deals. They need the young & financially desperate to sign at way below market, or it’s off to the bargain bin. Why pretend? Not sure it’s Cincy, might just be this ownership.
Votto’s no-trade clause says he can stay in Cincinnati pretty much as long as he wants.
3 years and $70M left on that contract which has aged surprisingly well. But you know Castellini would have traded him by now if he could.
It seems that the Yankees and Reds matchup well for a Hicks for Moustakas deal.. Both guys are owed around 40 MM.. moutakas a little less but for a much shorter time period.. hicks for a lot longer..
Both guys play a position that could help their destination team: Cinci could use a healthy CF’er.. NYY’s could use a 3B, thereby allowing Gleyber to go to 2B, Urshela to SS (until Volpe is ready) and DJLm to 1B/Util..
Add a prospect from each side and call it a deal..
Thoughts?..
No. I would rather bet on Hick’s health than Moose’s health & productivity.
Cincy still has Akiyama and Senzel as it’s primary CF options now. The Yanks would have to take back Shogo in addition to Moose in your proposed deal. Given both team’s concerns over payroll and player health, I don’t see this as a likely outcome.
How about both Moustakas and Suarez, plus Sonny Gray, for Patrick Corbin?
From the Reds side, there’s short term payroll savings in 2022-23 then added cost in 2024 after Votto’s salary comes off the books, and they get a reclamation project in Corbin. From the Nationals side, they upgrade their rotation and add two 3B/1B/DHs to slot in with Josh Bell (who’s a FA after 2022).
Corbin’s deal is much worse than Moustakas. I don’t think the Reds do this deal even if they could include Suarez. The addition of Gray makes it even less likely.
The guaranteed money is close on both sides if you include Suarez. Agree the Reds may want a little more in return (Kieboom or a prospect).
Circling their rotation like vultures… Come on, No team in the right mind doesn’t listen too and look into trade possibilities. The Castillo, Gray, Mahle staff is formidable. Moustakas, yes if he could be traded for some return in payroll that’d be a good idea. There isn’t a starting spot for moustakas with he and suarez on the club.
Plus, there’s the option of Bassitt, Manaea and Montas, too. No need to circle like vultures.
First off, history has shown EVERYONE is tradeable. The question is how much of a want is there in CIN to do so and is there a match in the marketplace. Let’s not also forget the new CBA may include an NL DH which may change the equation for Moose.
The easy answer is he gets attached to whichever starter CIN decides they’d like to move. It reduces the prospect haul but this deal isn’t about necessarily restocking the farm. That might appeal to certain teams. MIN is still shopping for SP, Giants have an open rotation spot.
And really this discussion should be which of Suarez or Moose is moved and it’s easier to look at Suarez and think “our team can fix him” and his contract would also scope in many more teams than Moose that you wouldn’t need to attach a starter to him. Selling low, sure and I guess it depends how much CIN would like to maximize of whichever starter they move
I think you’re onto something there. Reds are strictly focused on salary relief this winter, and that is evidenced by the fact that they just gave away Wade Miley to the Cubs for nothing. CIN cares not what comes back in a Moose or Suarez trade as long as the players headed to Cincy are making league minimum.
I see a 3-team deal with the Reds sending Luis Castillo to the White Sox. White Sox send Craig Kimbrel to Philly .. Philly sends their top 2 prospects + 1 top 10 prospect to Reds and 1 top 10 prospect to White Sox.
So who gets Moustakas?? Or did you just figure screw him & this article, lol?
So the Phillies are sending their two best prospects, plus 2 more top-10 prospects, for Kimbrel? And the WS are getting Castillo, two top prospects and a top-10 prospect, for Kimbrel?
I presume that you are a WS fan?
Joe Brady
Suggest you go re-read his comment.
However the Phillies do seem to be paying the Reds for Castillo to the WS and they only give up Kimbrell.
To ‘re-read’ implies that I read it the first time which, considering my response, seems unlikely. Anyway, yup, what you said what I meant. It’s a bit more balanced.
It would cost to much money or prospect value to trade him. Have to hope he is healthy next year and puts up good enough numbers to move him at the break.
Mike Moustakes and Shogo Akiyama to the cubs for Jason heyward. Salary combo is fairly close. Heyward would play right in Cincinnati in place of Nick Costello is.
Only 2 years and $49M left on the Heyward contract. Will be interesting to see what kind of offers he gets after 2023 if any. Hard to believe JH will only be 33 when his contract expires.
Jays should kick tires on Moose or Saurez. Not sure if Cincy could use Grichuk.
Though I would prefer the Jays game higher.
The Reds are cheap. Let’s call a spade a spade. Their stadium isn’t that old, their roster construction has been abysmal, and they refuse to bring in or retain the right personnel to create a winning culture.
They have no excuse to be in a continuous rebuild other than they won’t spend the money to get better. Yes, they will lose money for a couple years, however, if they showed their fans that they are committed to be competitive, the money will come in ten fold.
St. Louis was just like them when DeWitt bought the Cardinals in the mid-90’s, but over time they’ve built consist winner and they can afford whoever they want within reason. Milwaukee made the same commitment in the mid-2000’s and they’ve stayed competitive ever since.
I say if the Reds send the Brewers cash, Rece Hinds, Moose and Hunter for Cain I would do this trade lol
If Arte is actually spending money like a drunken sailor (he allegedly outbid the Dodgers for Max) then maybe take on Moose to mitigate the prospect cost for Castillo, possibly Gray.
Be prepared to DFA him if the downward trend continues but perhaps he can cover second a few days each week, give Rendon a day off at third from time to time, and maybe even spell Walsh at first once in a while.
Best case scenario I can find. And I feel that is a stretch.
Reds aren’t doing that. Again, they’re not going to attach a bad salary with a high value player. Mouse will get moved with half of his salary or more for a lottery ticket. Full stop.
Even half his salary puts a team on the hook for 2 years and $19 million. He wouldn’t get that as a free agent, much less with players coming back.
On the free agent market he’d be below Villar and just above Jake Lamb.
Probably best the Reds can do if that’s their plan is wait for free agents to sign and hope somebody gets hurt in camp.
Sounds a little crazy but I like this. Moose has negative value and the Angels can afford it and can move Fletch to SS.
If it helps us get Castillo, do it!
The Reds are not going to package one of the three pitchers just to get rid of Moose. They want to be wowed by and offer of Great prospects for those three not just give them away for free.
Maybe Phillies, if they throw in one of their pitchers? MM still ok vs righties, do platoon him with Bohm who splits other way.
Kind of a dumb statement to say Suarez isn’t coming off an injury. His decline happened IMMEDIATELY after he had shoulder surgery before the 2020 season. He had a promising September this past season so there’s hope more time away from the knife yields more in-line productivity from Geno
Would Moose for Myers work? Myers has 1 year at a higher AAV but Reds could use the outfielder. I’m guessing Reds say yes and Padres ask for more in that deal.
I’d say Moose for Kiermaier by Rays would never touch that.
If I am the Reds, I would be praying that someone would take any portion of Moose’s contract off of their hands. If not for the juiced ball of 2019,. He would have shown decline since after the 2017 season.
What a weird article. Of course they should trade him, but with that salary there will undoubtably be exactly zero takers.
Moustakas missed 100 games last year and has been subject to the Reds bizzare habit of playing players out of position. I wouldn’t say Moose is untradeable but it would certainly have to come with the Reds taking a bad contract back or paying a significant portion of the deal.
Maybe to Toronto for Grichuck?. Could also be worth it for a team like Baltimore, that has no real money committed to anyone to add a veteran voice that could potentially be flipped if he’s hitting
I can certainly see the Jays being a possibility. How about Moose and Gray or Castillo to the Jays for Grichuk and Nate Pearson. Reds get a starter (young, cheap, and promising) to replace Gray/Castillo, a centerfielder/rightfielder to replace their big free agent leaving, and the Jays get the quality starter they are looking for and a lefthanded bat for the infield against righty pitchers. Good for everybody????
1) The DH is coming to the NL; logjam solved.
2) There’s currently an owner-lockout, I hear. No ML level transactions for the next few months.
DHing a guy who had an OPS+ of 66 last year solves nothing.
Why not trade Votto? If you’re really looking to slash payroll, he’d make sense as well.
Probably has a NTC. Plus, bad publicity.
Votto has a full NTC that he has vehemently said over and over that he would not waive
Let me say this for the people in the back. The Reds are not giving away one of the three pitchers just to get rid of Mousetakis. Proposing giving one of them away to do that is dumb and counterproductive for the Reds. The Reds also arent giving those guys away for you 150th ranked prospect either so just stop on those posts as well.
I’ve lived in Arizona for 5 years, it’s hard to believe how much the DBACKS suck every year, they’ll be lucky to win 50 games next year
Moose for Didi straight up. Who says no?
Moose can play 2b, 3b. With shifts, playing 2b isn’t like 10-20 yrs ago. He can DH too. Sure teams could use him. All depends what Cin wants? Pure salary relief? Some relief and a prospect? Dead contract for dead contract?
Ok how about this crazy idea. Stros move Bregman back to SS until Pena is ready. 1-2 yrs? Moose at 3b. Cheaper than Story or Correa. 2 yr time frame gives Astris time to see if Pena pans out. Take on most of the contract and give the Reds…ugh guy they got from Stl. Escapes me. Diaz…
Gives Stros a short term fix, power bat, don’t have to rush Pena and don’t have to tie up 100+ million on Correa or Story.
Just spitballing
I think bad contract for bad contract is the best way to move Moustakes. It won’t help the budget, but the Reds might be able to fill a need on the roster. Suarez and the emergence of India makes Mouse a square peg.
Yanks need him desperately. They could use someone with a ring.
What if you take Gray and Suarez contracts.Would Castillo be the bait to unload that money?
It doesn’t make much sense to keep him since the Reds got Suarez at 3B, India at 2B and Votto still at 1B. Unless MLB DH’s the NL.
Hi everyone. Tons of trade possibilities spinning here. With the Reds trying to do whatever it is they are trying to do this year and with the lockout so many things up in the air. I would love to hear in the news from Moustakas how he is working out, dedicating himself to losing weight and getting as much treatment on his feet as possible. Then if things go as they seem to be with the universal DH, that would be a good place to put him. If this happens he might just become a decent hitter again. For the multitude of reasons listed on these posts it will be very difficult to trade him for any meaningful gain for the Reds.
Hi everyone. Will add my crazy trade idea to the mix.
CASTILLO, GRAY, MOUSTAKAS TO ANGELES FOR BRANDON MARSH, SAM BACHMAN AND JO ADEL.
Angels get the top pitching they need to be real contenders and to not let two blue chippers in Othani and Trout rot on the vine. Reds get two high end ready or near ready MLB OF prospects and one high end SP as well as money saved on Moustakas, Gray and
Castillo. Some of that money could go to getting some decent above average relief pitchers.
Reds would not benefit from packaging Castillo and Gray in the same trade. Moose is also a detriment to a package deal.
Angels aren’t trading both Adell and Marsh. No way
Just release him. The likelihood of a bad contract swap is not very good. They are going to eat some of his contract anyway.
If the DH comes into play then Moose can prosper.
Got a suggestion. Do nothing. Krall should take a firm stand with his idiot owners (lifelong Reds fan/sufferer) and say bad business can never be good business. Moose is not marketable without giving up what is best for the future. If they fire Krall nobody outside of Joe Shiz the Ragman will take the job.
Let Moose get back to work and rebuild. He’s a pro’s pro despite the rhetoric on here. Move him before the trade deadline. If the DH is activated in the NL the problem is solved. You may find as you get into the season he may be too important to move.