The Red Sox and Brewers announced agreement on a trade sending corner outfielder Hunter Renfroe to Milwaukee. In return, the Red Sox are reacquiring longtime center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. and two prospects, infielders David Hamilton and Alex Binelas.
It’s an out-of-the-blue swap pulled off just minutes before the work stoppage. Renfroe, 30 next month, is coming off a solid season. Signed by the Red Sox to a $3.1MM guarantee last winter, the former first-round pick emerged as Boston’s primary right fielder. He tallied 572 plate appearances and hit .259/.315/.501 with 31 home runs. By measure of wRC+, Renfroe’s overall offensive output was 14 percentage points above the league average in 2021, tied for the highest mark of his career.
Renfroe rated as a league average defender by measure of Defensive Runs Saved. He tied for the league lead with 16 outfield assists, often showcasing a cannon of an arm that scouts have lauded since his days as a prospect. But both DRS and Statcast’s Outs Above Average pegged his range as a bit below average, with the overall glovework coming out fairly middle-of-the-road.
Even if he’s not likely to win a Gold Glove, Renfroe is a capable right fielder who figures to assume a similar everyday role in Milwaukee. The Brewers lost Avisaíl García to the Marlins in free agency and seemed likely to rely on some combination of Bradley and Tyrone Taylor in right field. Each of Renfroe or Taylor could now spell veteran Lorenzo Cain in center field in the case of rest days or injury for the 35-year-old.
Renfroe steps in to upgrade that mix and add some punch to a Milwaukee lineup that ranked just 17th in slugging percentage this past season despite playing its home games in one of the league’s more hitter-friendly environments. He remains controllable via arbitration through the end of the 2023 season (barring changes to the service time structure in the next collective bargaining agreement). He’s projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for a $7.6MM salary in 2022.
That’s a bit cheaper than Bradley, who will play next season on a $9.5MM deal after exercising a player option last month. Renfroe’s also coming off a far superior showing, as Bradley had a nightmarish 2021 campaign at the plate. Milwaukee signed Bradley to a two-year guarantee last offseason, but he managed only a .163/.236/.261 mark over his 428 plate appearances with the Brew Crew.
By measure of wRC+, Bradley’s offensive numbers were an astounding 65 points below league average. That ranked last among the 262 hitters with 300+ trips to the plate, with essentially nothing going right for Bradley offensively. His strikeout rate spiked to a career-high 30.8%, while his walk percentage dipped to a personal-low 6.5%. Bradley’s six home runs marked his lowest total in seven years, as did his .095 ISO (slugging minus batting average).
To his credit, Bradley continued to play his typical brand of excellent defense. The former Gold Glove winner rated as twelve runs above average over his 915 1/3 innings on the grass. Statcast, meanwhile, estimated he was worth four Outs Above Average. Yet even a gloveman as excellent as Bradley isn’t providing much overall value with an offensive showing as poor as he had in 2021.
It’s not especially surprising the Milwaukee front office was looking for opportunities to upgrade over Bradley’s spot in the lineup, and they found one via his old team. While the Brewers will add an offensive upgrade, the Red Sox bring Bradley back to Boston in hopes that a return to that environment can unlock some of his prior production. Bradley was a fan favorite and generally strong player over nearly a decade with the Red Sox, first joining the organization as a supplemental first-round pick in 2010.
Bradley became an important member of the Sox’s lineup by 2014, spending most of the next seven seasons as a regular. His highlight-reel defense in center endeared him to the Boston faithful, and the left-handed hitter occasionally flashed potential on offense. His final season with the Red Sox was one of his best, as Bradley hit .283/.364/.450 with seven homers and five steals across 217 plate appearances during the truncated 2020 campaign.
The Boston front office will take a shot on a rebound at the plate while presumably installing Bradley back into the center field mix. Doing so would free up utilityman Enrique Hernández to play second base more frequently, with Alex Verdugo and top prospect Jarren Duran flanking Bradley on the corners. Of course, the Sox could look for future additions to the position player mix, with a right-handed hitting outfielder capable of complementing the lefty-swinging trio of Verdugo, Bradley and Duran standing out as an obvious fit.
Bradley’s contract also contains a $12MM mutual option for 2023 that comes with an $8MM buyout. The Red Sox are assuming a decent chunk of guaranteed money down the line in order to acquire a pair of fairly well-regarded young position players. Each of Hamilton and Binelas was ranked by Baseball America among Milwaukee’s top 20 prospects midseason.
Hamilton, 24, was an eighth-rounder of the University of Texas in 2019. He sat out that season recovering from an Achilles rupture he’d suffered during his junior year with the Longhorns, and last year’s canceled minor league campaign meant he didn’t play in affiliated ball until 2021. The left-handed hitter split his time between High-A and Double-A, hitting .259/.341/.419 with eight homers and 52 stolen bases across 459 plate appearances. Unsurprisingly given that impressive steal tally, the 5’10” middle infielder draws strong marks from scouts for his speed and athleticism, in addition to a sound approach at the plate.
Binelas, 21, was the Brewers’ third-round pick in last summer’s draft. Regarded as a potential first round talent entering his final season at the University of Louisville, he slumped through a down year that dealt a blow to his stock. The left-handed hitter did his best to put that behind him over a brief showing in Low-A after draft day, though, hitting .314/.379/.636 with nine homers in 132 trips to the plate.
A corner infielder, Binelas spent the bulk of his time in college and in the minors at third base. BA suggested midseason it looked unlikely he’d stick at the hot corner and projected his future lying at first or perhaps in left field. Binelas will need to hit to carry that profile, but he’s flashed power, plate discipline and bat-to-ball skills in the past. His strong showing in Low-A — while somewhat to be expected for a player drafted out of one of the top conferences in college baseball — is a strong start in that regard.
Altogether, it’s a fascinating deal — likely the final swap we’ll see for quite some time with a transaction freeze now in place. The Brewers lock in a much-needed lineup upgrade to replace a player they lost on the open market. The Red Sox improve a spotty team defense while bringing back a player who’s had plenty of success in their uniform in years past, taking on a fair bit of long-term money to also add some younger talent to the organization.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
The Natural
Wow….horrible trade for Boston
Francys01
I know Bradley is happy to be back with Boston’s organization because with the Brewers he did not play well. I’m surprised that the Red Sox traded Renfroe because he had a great year in Boston. Could this mean that Kyle Schwarber might be signed by the Red Sox? There is a possibility.
Fever Pitch Guy
Francy – Without a doubt this is a Groopman trade. He has intimate knowledge of the prospects coming back, and strongly believes one or both will have an impact at the ML level. Without Groopman, this trade doesn’t happen.
Now for those that recall, I had said for months that either Dugie or Renfroe would get traded this offseason. And I was laughed at like Carrie in the shower. Renfroe became a fan favorite because of his spectacular arm, but defensively overall he was exactly as this article said he was – not very good. During one stretch of the season he made several glaring errors that nobody needed stats to notice. His 1-for-16 in the ALCS didn’t help his value either.
But more importantly, Francy is correct. This deal wasn’t made with the intention of starting the season with Duran in the OF. As I said months ago, I think Schwarber might be returning. If his price gets too high, it will be some other solid hitting OF’er coming to the Sox. And then after JD leaves, next offseason if not sooner, Schwarber or whomever could slide into the DH role. I do NOT think Devers will be moved to DH within the next year.
So as I said already, I’m giving Bloom the benefit of the doubt and waiting until April to judge this offseason.
User 4245925809
Bloom is sure giving some Sox fans, not old enough to remember the Duquette salvage pile player ways a fit FP/Guy. He’s traded now 3 times and gotten back prospects (not counting summer 2020) and some fans don’t understand in today’s game, developing and not having 250m payrolls is how to try and stay competitive.
Not a fan of JBJ, saw him as in a downfall career wise since like ’16-17 and was glad to see him go, but who knows if Renfroe can repeat his best season, on the heels of a disastrous 1 the year before?
Accumulate more decent kids and see how they do. Already have a top 10 system.
JoeBrady
Fever Pitch Guy
Francy – Without a doubt this is a Groopman trade.
=================================
Thanks for pointing this out. JBJ is a huge risk. I loved him with the RS, and he is too young to not think he can revert back. But he has to revert back a whole lot. And for me, the option is a killer. It means he almost has to be back in 2023, or he becomes $17M/1 acquisition.
But at least the Groopman connection makes me feel more comfortable. It’s entirely possible that Groopman thinks they are fringy top-150 players.
beerncheese
Agree with Johnsilver that this was a shrewd move by Sox. Defensive upgrade in center, solves 2b, nets 2 good prospects, reunites a FA fave. Gave up 2 years of a good, not great, corner OF. The dollars are insignificant for the big money Sox. They will still spend to get what they need in free agency.
On my Brewers side this is a plus for the major league team as it solves 2 mistakes-signing JBJ and not tendering Garcia.
But for a team with a weak farm system to give up 2 good prospects just to fix a mistake this is a steep price to pay.
I like the deal because of the short term help for the Crew but this is a smart move for the Sox.
JohhnyBets67
Brewers have to take their shot while Burnes, Peralta and Woodruff are under team control. Trading the prospects doesn’t bother me as much.
JBJ was an awful mistake from the jump. Never understood it w/ Lorenzo Cain still around.
Steve7seven
I agree whole heartedly but I think this has Kris Bryant written all over it. RH power to replace Renfroe, can spell Raffy at 3B occasionally and in 2023 if need be, Raffy can Dh and Bryant or Dalbec can man the hot corner. Lots of flexibility but I totally agree this move has a big signing written all over it. Not to mention. We just got deeper in terms of prospects and the positions of strength we already had, aka trade bait.
davidk1979
Nope they bought prospects
tstats
are they any good, honestly asking
acell10
middle of the road prospects. MLB pipeline has them ranked 16,17 respectively in the brewers system which is also a middler of the road system
kylegocougs
Vineland looks like he has 70 grade pop, at the very least.
kylegocougs
Binelas*
augold5
Lol, at the least? More like at best
deweybelongsinthehall
Reason also allows Hernandez to play second with Verdugo in right. I thought HR was fine in right but metics didn’t agree despite his arm.
hediouspb
they will start the season with a bradley/arroyo platoon with hernandez in center against lefties and at second against righties.
deweybelongsinthehall
I’m not so sure. Arroyo was a nice find (better than I expected) but he can’t seem to stay healthy enough to rely on. I’m expecting more deals to reshape the defense as well as the offense. I love JDM and have wanted him extended but if there is a DH in the NL, he could be traded for pitching and/or more prospects. Such would allow the team to sign a bat and move Devers or Bogaerts to DH. No one realizes how many extra pitches were thrown due to poor infield defense. Similarly, do metrics consider how many runs Hunter Renfroe saved by runners not taking an extra base?
Darryl Rose
@kylegocougs
Power 55 per MLB
Trey Buchet
No.
koolga
Not a chance JBJ doesn’t play Center. That’s his spot and I’m sure he hasn’t forgotten anything on the way the ball bounces off the walls in Fenway.
Kiki may fill in on off days for JBJ, but I’m sure that’s his field going into next year.. If we have baseball.
JoeBrady
I think it is only one of two things.
1-JBJ returns to his 2020 form and is the F/T CF, no questions asked.
2-JBJ lands halfway between the 2020 and 2021 versions, and splits time in CF with Kiki, and kiki splitting time with Arroyo at 2nd against righties.
Maybe a one-off appearance in RF if Cora wants a defense-first OF occasionally.
Dorothy_Mantooth
@Dewey – I agree with your take on Renfroe’s defense. Renfroe played a great RF last season. Metrics aside, he was the only player on the Red Sox who was a gold glove finalist at his position so that says something. Also, people forget how good Verdugo was in RF during the shortened 2020 season. I was baffled at the beginning of the season when I kept seeing Renfroe in RF and Verdugo in LF but after watching him, Renfroe was excellent out there. Sure he made a fair amount of errors but he also led the league in OF assists by a wide margin. People pointing to Renfroe’s defense as the reason why this deal was made are wrong. This is a case of Bloom falling in love with a prospect and determining his upside is more valuable than the loss of production (and payroll space) that comes with JBJ replacing Hunter.
Fever Pitch Guy
Dotty – Renfroe being a finalist for Gold Glove says one thing, and it’s something we all know …. ML lead with 16 Assists. He has a fantastic arm, but other than that he’s below average defensively. There’s a reason why he’s never won a GG before despite having a cannon.
Renfroe wasn’t even in the Top 4 for DRS by RF’ers. I know you don’t like analytics as much as I do, but in this instance they paint an accurate picture.
As usual I fully support Bloom on this trade. JBJ will have much better offensive numbers now that he’s back in the comforts of home, and at least one of the two prospects will either help the Sox down the road or will be used as a valuable trade chip.
JoeBrady
JBJ will have much better offensive numbers now that he’s back in the comforts of home
==========================
Yup. I stumbled across this last night. looking for something else. JBJ’s career H/A splits are .753/.659. That’s really high.
yewed
That may or not be true. Only time will tell how this plays out going forward and what happens in the future.
GASoxFan
You know, something odd just popped into my head.
Does anyone notice a strange similarity between these Bloom years and the cherington ones?
* Inherits a payroll heavy team that underperformed expectations.
* Seeks out the LAD for a salary dump.
* Signs spare parts to go along with what’s left to make a playoff run.
* Has a offense vs pitching/defense imbalance that’s tough to equalize.
* Has a tough reputation with many fans who hate his moves and disapprove of many of his trades.
Is one patterning himself after the other, or, are those who fail to learn from history doomed to repeat it?
Thoughts? Not sure if I believe it myself, but, random thought over a glass of bourbon…
Rsox
As long as the similarities end there before we get another round of Hanley Ramirez/Pablo Sandoval contracts
KD17
GASoxFan – I’m not on the same page with you from a similarity perspective. Lets start with the worthless guys sent to LAD under Cherington. That was an outstanding salary dump. Bloom screwed the pooch with his dump. Dump an expensive DH not the 2nd best player in baseball.
The Red Sox ONLY under performed expectations in 1 of 4 years with DD and blame that idiot Cora for screwing up Spring Training in 2019 and sending them down the rabbit hole then add the injuries and that’s it!. ONE off year is a far better description of the team prior to Bloom. The toilet flushing happened in 2020 when Bloom and Ownership lost their minds and destroyed a top 5 team.
The hatred for Bloom is radically different because his first major act was to give away his franchise player. It’s safe to say many of us will hate the guy the rest of his life for that move and hope like we do with Cora that he’s out of baseball in the next few years. You don’t give away idols and you NEVER, NEVER cheat the game that gave you everything you have in life!!!.
Bloom really isn’t doing anything different from what he did in TB. He thinks like a small market GM, he acts like a small market GM and he fails as a big market GM for not adapting to the new situation in Boston. All the minor league acquisitions have yet to prove better than the ones that were there when he got the team. Two years and NOTHING!! By now DD had two division championships and started with far less than Bloom did.
Bloom pulled a Barney Fife as his first move. He shot himself in the foot!!! He hasn’t recovered and it seems unlikely there will be a division championship before he’s fired. Bloom bought a year of continued ineptness when the players stepped up and played so far over their heads in 2021. They were a 65 win team that played up to 92 wins. Why? Good fortune not talent.
With Sale back and Eovaldi healthy and the emergence of Houck the Red Sox have bumped their talent in 2022 to roughly a .500 team at this point. If they continue to swap out guys like Renfroe for guys like JBJ their numbers will fall.
Living through the Bloom era makes Bourbon insufficiently strong to deal with Bloom’s ineptness!!!
Think about the last two major hires in Boston. When Cora came to Boston he did EVERYTHING Hinch did the previous year because he was way over his head and had no clue how to manage. The same can be said today about his abilities.
Bloom shows up and has no idea how to be a GM for a big market team. He’s the type of guy who is pure theoretical and not practical. Since he left TB they have made the smarter moves so what does that tell everyone about who the brains in TB were all those years when Bloom sat at the table and listened. No chance he is taking a page out of Cherington’s primer on how to be a GM. Bloom is winging it like a carpenter who builds closets trying to build a skyscraper. It’s not working. Time to fire the HR staff for such horrendous hires!!!
deweybelongsinthehall
KD,
As good as Mookie is, he’s not in my view the second best player in baseball. Moreover you continue to downplay at what cost would there have been for Mookie to remain in Boston. I’m assuming after the pandemic started, the Sox offer the same deal as LA and he accepts. The team then us so far above the cap that aggressive penalties continue that include losing picks and IBP money. The team would have had to give away JDM and possibly would have been forced to trade Devers to get another team to take Price. Under the current CBA, a team can’t just spend wildly on long term deals and remain at the top. Eventually it catches up. The Dodgers planned in advance and didn’t have the long term obligations Boston had. Thus, they were able to sign Mookie. Their system is also loaded so they can better absorb new penalties from exceeding the threshold. If they however continue to spend without a long range plan, they too will end up in the hell position Boston was in in 20 and presently the Yankees seem to be in. The Mets with a new owner are making a splash but that is short term. if they miss on building up their farm, they too will be in a dilemma in say 2025.
SoxEaglesKnicksI
Dude you’re the biggest casual I think I’ve ever seen. Still crying over Mookie? Sox offered mookie 320/10 and he countered with 440/12. No one is worth 300+ million let alone 440 ffs. Getting under the luxury tax to reset the penalties was insanely important. Since 2018 mookie has declined in every metric literally across the board. Check baseball savant or fangraphs, exit velocity, hard hit contact, xBA, BABIP, barrel rate, slugging percentage, avg vs lefties, avg vs fastballs etc etc. In 18 his BABIP was a ridiculous.368 which is beyond unsustainable and has plummeted every year now down 100 points. On top of that his power numbers were mostly against Baltimore and Toronto. Small guys, quick hands first to decline and u saw it this year that contract is an albatross. Mookie doesn’t get any criticism for being greedy? He made it impossible for them to re-sign him and Henry made it clear he wanted the luxury tax reset.
Resetting the luxury tax allowed us to draft Yorke, blaze and Mayer. The fact that you say the farm isn’t any better since he’s been here makes me know for a fact guy have no idea wtf you’re talking about. The farm has gone from 25th to 9th since bloom took over and the prospects they just added only strengthen that. Yorke is one of four teens this decade to hit .300+ avg .400+ obp .500+ slg as teen the other three: Trout, Vlad Jr and Acuna.
Two years and nothing lol, bloom went from last to game 6 of the ALCS while the farm went from 25th to 9th in one year. Sox didn’t make it that far in 16 and 17 so wtf are you talking about? Division titles, foh. Dombrowski took over a team with the #1 farm in baseball and handed out contracts to price (how’s that working out) and inherited a roster with bogaerts, Mookie, pedroia, Ortiz, shaw, Hanley, just stop dude.
TB is where they are because of Bloom, look at their damn farm he literally wrote the handbook on player development for a team with no payroll. Sox are following Friedman’s model which bloom was mentored by. Idiot spoiled Sox fans. Team just went to the alcs and still cry. Selling high on renfroe was smart, dude has always been a sub .250 hitter with horrible obp that always throws home allowing runners to move up and eventually score. Seriously get help dude, it’s early December plenty of moves to be made.
Fever Pitch Guy
KD – You are the only person on the planet that insisted letting JBJ walk was a bad move, and you continued to say so even after his absolutely putrid 2021 season. Now that he’s coming back, with a couple decent prospects too, you have absolutely nothing positive to say about Bloom’s trade?
LOL … you and Joe Brady are identical. He refuses to say anything negative about Bloom and thinks he can do no wrong, and you refuse to say anything positive about Bloom and thinks he can do nothing right. But that’s okay, I don’t mind continuing to be the man in the middle here. I still refuse to pick a side!!!
shabagel
I love coming on here and finding you on every post about the red Sox. I’ve never seen someone who is so consistently wrong on everything they post yet does it with such confidence.
How many 300+ million dollar deals have worked out for the team historically? Take a look at the highest paid players in the league right now and you will find a list of deals signed in the last two years and albatross contracts that the team would love to get rid of. And the red Sox not only managed to avoid joining that list, but rid themselves of Price (who is one of said contracts) while acquiring Verdugo and more in the process. When you factor all that in it was a great move.
And funny of you to act like bloom is clueless. Basically every move he has made has worked out. Letting jbj walk despite many fans (including you yourself) demanding they resign him, signing renfroe, signing Kíke despite everyone saying they didn’t need a utility man, grabbing Whitlock, not folding to media pressure and trading for a 1st baseman at the deadline, trading for Pivetta.
You just need to admit the 2018 team was far luckier than you let on and isn’t this super team you seem to remember.
In what world did bloom inherit a talented team? It was in no way a top 5 team and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Assuming the bring the 19 team back in its entirety for 2020 (seeing as it’s a top 5 team why wouldn’t they?) They would have had
Porcello pitching his last mlb season (with a 5+ era)
Price who opted out of 2020 and is no longer a starter
Eros who missed all of 2020
Sale who missed all of 2020
And eovaldi
So anyway you slice it, a 2020 team relying on that rotation is getting no where near the playoffs for a variety of reasons.
And let’s not mention the offense. Brock holt was so bad in 2020 he got released. Benintendi was played a horrific 14 games before missing the remainder of the season and has settled back in as a league average outfielder, Moreland had a great half of 2020 and Boston sold high. He hit .227 in 2021.
In fact, from the team he acquired only 2 of the players he let go were of any use in 2021.
Bloom has the red Sox in a far better situation then they were in when he was hired. It’s not even debatable.
ray win
I’m surprised how so many have forgotten that Mookie sulked most of 2019, and seemed somewhat inclined to get out of Boston when he became a free agent. Verdugo is a good player, though no Mookie. But he is better than a draft compensation when Mookie eventually would have left via free agency. An I agree that I don’t necessarily agree that Mookie is the second best player in baseball. Is he really better than Acuna, Soto, Tatis, maybe others?
KD17
FPG – What are you talking about? I have no idea who you are confusing me with but I considered JBJ a waste of money if they paid him over $3M. I loved his defense and went on long tirades about his hitting. I have no idea where this pro JBJ idea is coming from.
Next, the prospects suck!! The crap middle infielder is worse than Downs and you know how much I think of him and the the 3B is like Devers he might as well leave his glove in the dugout. If the Red Sox needed a long=term DH one of them would have a future but Devers is here for the long-term so no DH is needed.
Bloom sucks whether you pick a side or not. I’ve documented the talent drop off so many times yet a few paid supporters still stick up for the stiff.
Check your meds because your memory is going. I am not a JBJ fan and never have been.
KD17
raywin – A bit of revisionist history. Mookie didn’t sulk. He hit .295 with an OPS of 915.
Why do people keep saying Verdugo was better than a draft pick when that would have never happened. In July, when LAD and SD and ATL all were in the hunt for the NL best record Mookie would have been the carrot dangled in front of all of them.
Heck the winner of the Mookie contest won the WS to nobody’s surprise. All three teams would have offered something better than a bunch of back-ups. Verdugo was the fourth outfielder, Downs had more people than you can count in front of him at middle infield and Wong was their 5th best catching prospect.
Mookie got screwed when they fired DD.
DD insisted that ownership give him the money to win and that meant a big contract for Mookie. Ownership told DD he needed to move Mookie and my guess is he said no and got let go. He didn’t take crap from a bunch of mindless owners. He knew how to win and showed them. Mookie was always part of his plan and all the overage predating DD was not an issue to him, it was ownership’s issue.
Mookie was considered by most fans the #2 player in baseball when the deal was made. It’s two years later now and many have prematurely put players like Acuna and Tatis with guys like Trout and Mookie. Mookie is elite and could win a MVP any time in the next 5 years. Verdugo does not have that pedigree like Mookie.
As for latest best players, Wander Franco will outshine both Acuna and Tatis in the next year or two. He’s the face of baseball 2024. He’s the next Trout. Acuna and the others you listed are all excellent players but many thought that about Bellinger when he had a break out year now nobody talks about him with Acuna. The same is likely to happen to Acuna and Tatis if they can’t stay healthy. Look at Yelich he went from MVP to nothing special in two years..
I believe Mookie is still a top 2 to 5 player in baseball not counting pitchers. He has more history than the young kids and more consistency.
Ebouch25
Finally someone realizes that Mookie is overrated and is nothing more than McCutchen. What’s he doing lately? Mookie is to damn small to hold those stats year in and year out.
deweybelongsinthehall
Considering age and control, if take Devers over Mookie. Devers without defense improvement, will never command $300m and the money saved caan be put towards another major bat or pitching.
deweybelongsinthehall
KD, I agree on DD but not much else. You underrate Verdugo because he’s not mashing 40 home runs a year. I’d much rather have him than Benny as a corner outfielder. Wong has also been fine in his limited appearances. You’re over-estimating what Mookie would have brought back. Also, what happens if he got injured? The only question you can ask is whether Bloom was right to renegotiate the original trade and it’s too early to tell.
pasha2k
Bloom was taken advantage of in the Mookie trade. Doggie good player but he needed to get a good pitching arm also for a player like Mookie who was not a rental as Scherzer was n LA gave up top prospects. They gave Boston Duggie, whose good but only fringe players , Jeter n Wong. Bad trade , adding in the Benni trade was horrific, Franchy was n is horrible. Bad trades!
deweybelongsinthehall
Pasha, You’re forgetting about Turner going to LA with Big Max. Benny was expendable and getting more expensive. For the money, I’d rather have AV. Also, you’re not including the others gotten back. Franchy was a long shot. The pitcher that starts with a W is going to make the club in 22. Wong is also fine as a third catcher. Not sure where you can say bad trades after one year.
Rsox
Bloom gets a lot of flack for the Mookie trade because people just can’t accept the fact that Mookie was never coming back to Boston after the 2020 season. If Bloom doesn’t trade Mookie and at least get Verdugo/Downs/Wong (though i prefered the original trade of Verdugo/Maeda/Graterol) all the Sox would have gotten is a draft pick from the QO Mookie would have most certainly been attached.
yazmon
well, I watched Moonie sulk on my TV screen just about every game. doesn’t mean he didn’t perform but you could easily tell he wanted out of Boston. even if the Sox offered the most money, he was gone. Bradley should have been gone sooner while he had more value, now he’s back with a lot less value. I’m not devastated to see Renfro go, though hes a good player all around except on the bases. He’s replacable though. just not with Bradley. I’d have the Sox explored something like a Chris Taylor signing and maybe looked into Matt Olsen over in Oakland. Kiki can handle CF until the kid is ready.
iverbure
The Redsox last year replaced mookie with renfroe and saved several million and they’ll replace renfroe with someone cheaper and better this is how baseball works
MafiaBass
Why do people still insist that extending Mookie was ever an option? It was not. He would not sign. He wouldn’t have re-signed with Boston in the offseason.
Trading him was the best option.
Fever Pitch Guy
KD – You absolutely included JBJ along with Price, Benny and Mookie in your complaints about Bloom getting rid of players that you felt should have been retained. You even implied Bloom was a racist for getting rid of all three African Americans. And this was toward the end of the season, because I would question you as to why you were complaining about Bloom getting rid of a guy whose OPS is in the 500’s but you still insisted that JBJ should have been retained just for his glove. If you want to make a friendly wager I’ll agree to it, but only if I get compensated for searching through thousands of your 500+ word posts! LOL!
Cheerios + Churros = Chourio
lol
iverbure
What’s funny? What’s renfoe’s stats this year? Is he still in the league? Lol compare Redsox RF now to renfroes stats.
Trollfree
Iverbure –
Renfroe in 2022 had an OPS+ of 124
Verdugo in 2022 had an OPS+ of 101
Renfroe in 2023 has an OPS+ of 100
Verdugo in 2023 has an OPS+ of 112 and falling
Did you not know the actual stats don’t support your comment?
We can check back in October but after 2022 Verdugo would need to come up and Renfroe would need to fall off for the trade off to be in Boston’s favor.
iverbure
Is 112 higher than 100?
Trollfree
So your point is that during this moment in time not having Renfroe is good but the during the entire time since in Boston Renfroe would have been better than what Boston had in right field? Odd and confusing point.
Seems like a really insignificant observation considering most of the time since they didn’t resign him it’s been bad for Boston and if you look at it in the aggregate it’s bad for Boston but you are right as of TODAY Verdugo has a higher OPS+..
Boston paid Verdugo $6.3MM after he created league average 107 OPS+ in 2021 and an even more league average 101 in 2022. Renfroe got paid $11.9MM by LAA in 2023 because he produced back to back above league average numbers in Boston in 2021 (114) and in Milwaukee in 2022 (124).
Boston could have used his 124 in 2022 since Verdugo slid to his lowest total since he was in LA in 2018.
You may not like Renfroe but the data ONLY supports the idea that as of TODAY his numbers which have been better than the RFers for the Red Sox since he left are slightly below them at this POINT IN TIME. For the entire time Boston is worse off.
I guess I don’t understand why you made the comment? To take a cheap shot at Renfroe who did nothing wrong while in Boston or to bolster support for a very mediocre Verdugo? Either way, you are right as of today 112 is higher than 100.
FYI… by month Verdugo’s OPS has been .851, .789, .862 and July is .528.
That’s a downward trend so the 12 point advantage is shrinking with every passing game. Soon Trout will be back and the LAA offense should once again flourish which should help Renfroe return to his normal 115=125 OPS+.
iverbure
Not going to read that novel? Is 112 higher or lower than 100?
Trollfree
Iverbure – No need to read it. It simply explains in detail why your comment was wrong. It’s ok to not have the baseball smarts to make good arguments. That’s what this site is for!! Guys like you who want to feel good about themselves by saying ridiculous things. Well done.
Trollfree
What I find really bizarre is the fact that you made this comment about something said 1 1/2 years ago when Renfroe was doing much better than Verdugo. Now that’s bizarre!! Did you get lost on the website and end up in an article from Dec 2021? How wild is that!!
iverbure
Someone responded to my comment and I got a notification. I find it bizarre you didn’t know that given you’re responding the same as me? Also answer my question is 112 higher than 100?
deweybelongsinthehall
Not really. Cherington’s failure was the big ticket items which we haven’t yet seen from Bloom. If his signings end up Panda and Hanley types, he’s not going to last. Other difference is Bloom is strengthening the farm whereas Cherington other than finding Holt really was known for not trading the young assets he had, not really finding or acquiring new ones. One similarity is the shirt term deals does remind at least me of 2013 but the reasons aren’t the same. Bloom inherited a payroll jam that if not corrected, would have hamstring the team for years.
acell10
I love how he is still defending the wall for Dombrowski when it took literally no skill or acumen to do what he did. all he ever does is overbid and overspend prospect capital in trades for veterans and outspend everyone. That takes absolutely not skill or talent to do.
Case in point look at how craptastic the Phillies have been since he took over. He didn’t inherit the best farm system in baseball so he has no means to gut it to try and improve the team.
yewed
Your thoughts may mirror what kind of bourbon you’re drinking. or how big that glass is.
Interesting but I think it stops at that. I feel Bloom has a better history than Cherington did. How much of that could be said about other organizations if you looked into it?
The fact that you could find similarities says more about the organization than it does about the GM. Why is this a continuing issue? I believe that’s the reason Bloom was hired to begin with.
JoeBrady
Is one patterning himself after the other, or, are those who fail to learn from history doomed to repeat it?
==============================
Doomed to repeat a WSC? I hope so.
PoloGrounds62
Dumb. The Bosox were lucky to be rid of Bradley. These prospects must be incredible. My Mets would have loved Renfroe to replace Conforto. Great move for the Brewers.
fisher40
Lol yes great move for the Brewers, but Your Mets are still a joke
chaudk
We don’t know the details yet… If it is straight up Renfroe for JBJ and two middling prospects with no money going to Boston, I agree. If there is a couple mil going Boston’s way and then they sign Schwarber or something, I’m willing to wait and see to judge it.
deweybelongsinthehall
I think the bigger reason is it resolved the 2B situation it also means the team will not be moving Bogaerts to second for a big ticket SS. Such was pie in the sky thinking anyway.
yewed
On the surface it resolved the 2B situation but is it for the better? As for next year I don’t think so. X will almost assuredly leave next season. Not saying the Sox won’t sign him but at what cost? They arguably could give him the same offer they would give Story or give Correa the money and let Bogaerts go. If they do nothing they lose a top SS and still need to fill that hole.
After next season they will have a whole lot of money to spend.
deweybelongsinthehall
Bogaerts if he stays will shift to third with Devers DHing. From all the articles I’ve seen, drafting Nick Yorke seems to have been a great move as he’s likely the second baseman in 23?
iverbure
Missed opportunity from jays. Coulda unloaded the Grichuk contract for Bradley and whatever or gave up something but both teams woulda benefited from Bradley jr to jays and Grichuk to brewers.
pdubs2907
You’re assuming the Brewers would have preferred that deal though. I’m not sure they would. Grichuk is a little more expensive than Renfroe and similar production last year.
iverbure
It’s almost as if major league gms like premium defenders in CF and premium defenders are valuable in mlb baseball. If you people need more education on how mlb gms think I can give anyone a education so you aren’t surprised.
BobGibsonFan
Why is it a terrible trade. Red sox get 2 prospects. Work stoppage and season cancelled, no one gets paid for the year. 3 years from now when they decide to play, the prospects are ready to go. Well, they have to wear the covid space suits and oxygen gear. That takes away some of Hamilton’s speed.
Deleted_User
LOL
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
At least one of those two prospects Boston got had better pan out. Bradley might have been the worst hitter in all of MLB last year, so saving a couple of million in salary and getting the better player is a win-win for the Brewers.
I know Bradley was a fan favorite in Boston, but he won’t be anyone’s favorite player if he hits .150 again.
Rking
Bradley, Rich Hill, Wacha, Paxton- it’s like Bloom is trying to do his part to win the 2018 World Series
smshap
Agreed. JBj was a good outfielder but how do you replace 31 HR and a perfect Fenway swing. Not happy!
notstarboard
It only seems horrible if you ignore the context. The Sox are clearly going over the tax threshold this year, so the money isn’t a factor. Renfroe had a nice bounce back season in 2021, but it was still only worth 1.8 fWAR, and he’s only projected for 1.3 fWAR in 2022. 2 WAR is about what you’d get from an average starter, so he’s not all that valuable at his projected arbitration salary. Next year it’ll probably look even worse, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get non-tendered if he hits his projections for 2022.
Meanwhile, the prospects heading Boston’s way look promising, and JBJ looks useful as a fourth outfielder given his great glove, experience playing in Fenway, and the fact that you basically need a CF to play both RF and CF in Fenway. His bat is a decent candidate to regress to the mean, too; he won’t be starting 2022 right after wrist surgery, he’ll be back in a comfortable environment, and he’s been a streaky hitter his whole career, so a long stretch of poor hitting doesn’t tell me he’s washed. So, all the Sox need to do is make a corner OF signing to replace Renfroe and this trade starts to make a ton of sense.
If the Sox sit on their hands until April, though, I agree that this trade wouldn’t make much sense. I don’t think there’s any chance of that happening, though. They should be competiting for a playoff spot in 2022.
PhanaticDuck26
that’s one way to get JBJ back in the fold.
Mike_Divi
Well I can kiss goodbye one of my keepers in my AL only fantasy league.
paddyo furnichuh
Ouch, Renfroe is a rough keeper
Ketch
It’s an AL only league. And if it’s an auction league where Renfroe costs $1, why not?
GabeOfThrones
You should have let them know before they made the trade.
iverbure
Why on earth are you keeping renfroe in a AL keeper league? Like seriously if you don’t have better than him even if you can keep like 8 plus keepers then man your team must be bad.
Mike_Divi
It’s a 13 team AL only auction league with each team carrying 5 outfielders and a DH on the active part of the roster (we also have a minor/bench aka ultra roster consisting of 12 players. In total 35 players on our combined active/ultra roster. It’s very common for all teams to roster 4th and even 5th on a MLB team’s depth chart. In this league Renfroe carried a $10 salary ($260 total for 23 active roster) and has a lot of value in this league, especially given his production last year. Also, while it’s my fourth year in the league (not counting the Covid shortened 2020 season) this particular league is in its 37th season!
Ron Tingley
Yikes..
YanksFan22
I’m sorry, but at first look, the Red Sox literally made one of the worst trades in recent memory. Why would a playoff contending team trade their breakout outfielder who could be a cornerstone for a guy who’s a part-time player for the majority of teams? Makes no sense.
averagejoe15
A break out outfielder? Renfroe wasn’t even a 2 WAR player in essentially full PT. He’s a terrible defender with shiny tools like power and arm strength.
Granted I think JBJ is washed but I was hopeful the Sox would at least try and upgrade on Renfroe.
Deleted_User
“Terrible defender?” Say whaaaaaaaa? Renfroe has been one of the best defensive OF’s in the game since his sophomore season.
yewed
I wouldn’t say terrible but if you look in depth he’s not as good as advertised.
16 assists along with 12 errors. Great arm but that arm can also work against him. He’s only the second outfielder this century to have that many errors.
Granted right field at Fenway is a challenge.
He passes the eye test but the metrics say differently last season.
averagejoe15
One of the best defensive OFs? By what metric? Negative DRS and UZR last two years. Negative OAA last year and 0 the year before that.
He’s had exactly 1 good year on defense in 2019 which is a clear outlier at this point.
Stormintazz
Article says great arm. Overall below average defender.
The best23
Bro you don’t know what u talking about
citizen
renfroe led the league in OF assists and errors
Schwarber led the league in Double plays turned and a better dwar than some player named harper.. some interesting stats but a different perception of the player.
acell10
cornerstone? ehh…. that’s a bit of a reach. He was great last year but overall has been more miss that hit as player… I suspect this a prelude to something else
Travis’ Wood
Renfroe was a possible DFA candidate he’s not a potential cornerstone lol
soxfan1
That’s not true at all…
Ketch
He was DFAd as recently as last year
mattwild1
he hit 31 homers with an .816 OPS lol… not exactly DFA material
averagejoe15
Chris Carter hit 40 homers and got DFAed, homers aren’t valuable if that’s your only skill.
KingRyan227
Carter also didn’t have a .816 ops…
zarbend
chris carter had an .821 ops
MLB Top 100 Commenter
This has to be about acquiring the prospects. Because Brewers would have traded Bradley to Red Sox for a broken baseball bat. Which is seemingly what Bradley brought to the plate last year.
GCarbs
Renfroe was really hard to watch in the outfield. His assist numbers were elite, but his jumps and tracking was borderline dreadful. He swing the bat well but was destined to regress. Not that I like the trade in a vacuum, but I don’t think it’s as bad as some are making it seem
fisher40
Lol JBJ hit below .200 this past year. Have fun red Sox fans watching him struggle
Rking
I guess what I don’t get is best case scenario the prospect acquired Pinelas?? turns into Hunter Renfro in 3-4 years. They were in the ALCS last year.
downsr30
Renfroe is good on defense – granted he’s not a CFer, but he’s good.
JBJ is not a good hitter. Average at best… and he gets paid too much to be a glove first guy. Might as well have went after Kiermaier.
Renfroe at least offered good power.
Like this move for Milwaukee. Seems very dumb by Boston.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
“average at best” lol not even close, he’s horrible
JayKay
Renfroe..good on defense?
He has a great arm, but otherwise I disagree.
bigdaddyt
NL DH fellas
averagejoe15
Renfroe is not a good defender.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Better defender than say Soler or Rosario.
downsr30
Last year was the first year he’s ever posted a negative in defensive runs saved…. And it was his first year at Fenway. I’d say I’d give him the benefit of the doubt as a good defender.
JayKay
I mean, yeah he is. Per statcast he is slightly above average with the routes he takes, which probably helps offset him being one of the worst outfielders in terms of feet covered.
JayKay
Woops, the statcast numbers I’m referencing were So let’s and not Renfroe. What an embarrassing mistake.
Renfroe actually is fairly good at the amount of feet he covers fielding (except for this year), it’s just the routes he takes are usually bad.
averagejoe15
Negative DRS in 2016 and 2020. He’s only been good by most or all metrics in a single season, 2019.
bbatardo
Sure he is, see the play in the ALCS where he knocked the ball over the wall for a ground rule double saving a run? Masterful.
Chebert
Not good
DarkSide830
wow, now that’s an interesting move.
tstats
Wow that’s dumb, the worst hitter in baseball last year for Renfroe???
deleted account
JBJ can’t hit
realgritzy
But he has fake home run stare. oohh what a fake out.
amk1920
The Red Sox saw a player who OPS+ 34 and making 12 million dollars and said “let’s trade for that”
duffys cliff
I’ve trusted a lot of Bloom’s moves up to this point, a lot make sense in some fashion. I can’t for the life of me understand the thought process here.
duffys cliff
Hamilton and Binelas are the Brewers’ 16th and 17th ranked prospects, so I guess that’s something? But man, not seeing the purpose of this at all.
kenny217
16th and 17th now. Those rankings are old. Binelas killed it in A ball with a .314/.379/.636 line. Sure, he’s not going to be a top 100 prospect or anything, but he looks better than a 17th ranked prospect in a farm system so far.
Stormintazz
16th and 17th on a low rated minor league
daveineg
Milwaukee’s last two drafts have been good. Hamilton is an athletic middle infielder who stole 52 bases in 61 attempts in 2021 between high A and Double A. He was certain to move up several spots in Milwaukee’s rankings.
Binelas was almost a certainty to move into their top 10 and is the prize for Boston in this deal. He’ll start the year in high A, and is likely to move up to AA at some point. If he hits like he did in low A in 2021, he’s got the potential to be a top 100 prospect.
Milwaukee needed a bat to replace Avi Garcia who signed with Marlins. They got one who had very similar numbers this past season.
Bradley was a complete bust in Milwaukee. Only way they could get out from under his salary was to include prospects and they gave up two that Brewer followers were exited about especially Binelas. Red Sox have the resources to replace Renfroe’s bat and they probably will, but for a small market team like Brewers, that’s not an option with Yelich’s salary and big arbitration raises on their pitching staff.
JoeBrady
Excellent post.
I said something similar yesterday in regard to the Paxton signing.
Both these moves are Bloom flexing the Red Sox muscles. There is no way that most teams could afford to pay Paxton $10M for maybe 12-15 starts (with rust), in order to obtain a 2-year option on him.
And there was little chance that Mil could fill RF with a $10M JBJ on the roster. With Yelich and Cain on the roster, you’re already in for $40M, and Renfroe fits your team perfectly.
You just needed to give up prospects to make it happen. And not a lot of teams have the money and willingness to take on JBJ. The more I think about it, the more I like it.
Poundsy24
For the same reason the Red Sox gave up Renfroe for prospects the pendulum swings the other way. Internal player development is essential for team success especially with top end talent taking up basically 15%+ of the budget on one deal for $30mil players, so it becomes crucial for team control and arb players to produce in order to win.
At the same time, the cost for prospects right now is so high and their system keeps getting deeper that stockpiling prospects may allow them to make a bigger move down the road.
I think adding this depth makes them a threat for a Gray or Castillo deal.
I made the comment on another post that an interesting move may be Houck, Dalbec and Duran for Castillo, but it seems less likely they trade Duran now after this deal and the Reds really have no need for Dalbec unless Suarez is moved or the DH comes to the NL, but I do think the Sox could land Castillo with Houck or Whitlock as the centerpiece.
Yankeepride88
Dalbec has hardly any value. Especially with the Reds with Votto signed for at least 2 more seasons (3rd team option)
ctguy
Sox definitely need to do better than Houck, Dalbec and Duran if they want to have any chance at Castillo.
downeysoft42
Yeah I’m right there with ya. Best idea I got is jbj is insurance and maybe their hoping Duran is a go for more time and hope he’s alright. But I guess he is a similar player type as jbj so idk. Jd is back he can see more time if casas is really going to come up firing bobby elsewhere (of) or dh? Or in a trade for another hitter. Someone else commented that 3rd rounder in return. Another classic bloom move of loading the farm up and selling high (if we wanna even cal it that) on a possible fluke. And that fact that if it’s not a fluke, renfroe will be asking to be paid a decent amount.
Or they saw his playoff performance and said nopeee not again, get us clutch playoff ready jbj and 2 lottery tickets.
busmannyc
busmannyc
Weird but ok
chaim bloom
good move, Renfore is a fluke anyway….
darkstar61
A career 108 ops+ hitter posts a 110 ops+ and you dismiss it as a fluke?
I hope it was just sarcasm, because otherwise, what?
VonPurpleHayes
Facisnating trade.
TROYP815
Maybe now they can sign Schwarber and use JBJ and as a 4th OF.
VonPurpleHayes
This is what I’m thinking.
GASoxFan
And yet, they also went after refsnyder because… nevermind. No idea why they got refsnyder.
Jbj is a streaky hit player, but he did get a GG last year.
As far as renfroe… well..
He has an arm, 16 assists show that. But on the flip side he only had a .956 fielding %, 0 DRS, -1.6UZR, and -2.1 UZR/150.
Also, fwiw, Renfroe led all major-league OF in errors (12) coupled with -1 OAA.
I think he’s a guy who looked better than he was, and the cannon arm hid a lot of flaws – we remember flashy plays better than the ho-humm below average stuff and minor miscues.
But, for a glove first OF, there had to be cheaper options. It is a start to improving the poor defense, just a puzzling one.
stymeedone
I realize Schwarber was on a hot streak, but they really need a RH hitting OF. Don’t see him returning to Boston.
LordD99
Suddenly feeling good about Aaron Hicks.
deweybelongsinthehall
Why because he doesn’t get on the field? Funny part is many thought the Yankees bought low and the deal was great for the team. Hicks probably ignored his agent and chose long term security realizing his body was unlikely to stay healthy.
allweatherfan
I’m assuming Boston wanted the prospects and had to take JBJ. Right?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Must be.
YourDreamGM
Brewers can only spend so much. Just about everyone knew it was terrible contract but them. They found a better option and dumped some salary by bribing a richer market team with prospects. Boston probably thinks a guy who usually hits at least 700 ops can get there again.
deweybelongsinthehall
These are the kind of deals Tampa has been known to win. It would be great to find that JBJ out performs Renfroe in 22 and then one or both prospects turn into real players. It’s only one year of JBJ. That said, thank you Hunter. Your outfield throws should be remembered like JBJ’s amazing catches. Good luck in beer land.
lucas0622
Imo Binelas is an interesting piece, Milwaukee’s 3rd rounder this year. Boston has that one first base prospect (can’t remember his name) but in all of college Binelas has absolutely mashed, and did solid this year too. I think he’s gonna be good
lucas0622
*solid this year as in solid in his brief minors time
acell10
Triston Casasa you mean? he’s a top 40 prospect in baseball possibly higher
Baseball 1600
Looks bad on paper but it’s also a Red Sox team that has Chaim Bloom in charge so I’ll give it some time
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
WTF are the red sox thinking? lol idiots
jonliv28
Horrible trade for Boston… but i’m a yankees fan so i’m cool with it
Tomahawk Takeover
Could be one of the worst trades I’ve ever seen. What is Boston thinking?
Rangers29
WOW! Hunter Renfroe is huge after the loss of Garcia in Milwaukee! Great move for them.
chiefivey
my bro is back. JBJ
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I will admit that I do not know a lot about Alex Binelas other than that he hit well in college but unless he is truly exceptional:
The only question is should the Brewers be happier that they unloaded Bradley,
Or happier that they acquired Renfroe.
Trade for Brewers “A”!
Brewcats
The disappointing thing about including Binelas was that he was a local boy (Oak Creek). But I’m surprised we were able to move JBJ AND get a player that can replace Avasail.
Amanda
WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
ballgawd
Damn, when did the Red Sox hire Bill BabASSi as their GM?
❤️ MuteButton
On the surface this looks insane. Perhaps the Red Sox know something that isn’t obvious about JBJ. Perhaps they know how to fix him. For now, I’m siding with insane.
acell10
or perhaps they are trying to clear some roster spots/money for another player like Schwarber or Suzuki…
1984wasntamanual
Doesn’t JBJ make more for 2022 than Renfroe (unless MIL is sending money)?
Tomahawk Takeover
If it’s about money, then they just spent more than they were originally going to…
acell10
I thought Red Sox were getting money back it looks like they aren’t. This was more about adding prospects and opening up a spot for someone like Schwarber or Suzkie
deweybelongsinthehall
How does adding one MLB player for another create a roster spot,? It improves your defense if you move KH to second. Arroyo can’t stay on the field. I’d now trade him for another mid prospect and sign Iglasias to back up the infield.
hediouspb
or arroyo becomes a platton with jbj (hernandez moving between center and second).
acell10
I meant a spot on the field for Schwarber or Suzuki if they want to go that route. Also puts Kiki back at second and strengthens the infield defense
Rking
Bloom was at a lockout party smoking left handed cigarettes, it’s the only explanation.
ClevelandSteelEngines
Bradley had wrist surgery after 2020. The wrist was still sore and bothering him by 2021 OD, appearing as a detriment to his performance and leading to loss of playing time. Wrists are critical in a player’s swing, so Bradley may have developed flaws in mechanics to compensate for pain or discomfort during the spring training.
It is possible the Red Sox comprehended the risks of wrist surgery could impart against his production. Just another reason to hold back on spending.
As for now, they have the financial room to operate, and Bradley’s defense and a potential offensive resurgence, the move looks pretty good with prospect compensation.
sleepy bear
And Brewers fans say thank you!
BucksPackersBrewersWow!
Yes sir!
BucksPackersBrewersWow!
Can Renfroe play first base?
bennyhaha
He’s played 9 innings there in the big leagues. Possibly do some DH-ing if that’s in the next CBA.
Deleted Userr
Don’t get this trade for Boston. They didn’t match the Brewers’ offer to Bradley last offseason for a reason. And while those two prospects are both legit, they still aren’t worth taking Bradley. Let alone giving up Renfroe to do it.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Exactly my thought. I could see Boston saying we will part with Renfroe for one or both prospects. But why acquire Bradley’s salary unless Brewers send cash.
ClevelandSteelEngines
2020-2021 offseason Sox self-imposed spending restrictions so adding Bradley didn’t have priority. Having survived the 2020 mini-breakdown of the roster, weathering the injuries and departures, the Sox priorities shifted back towards elite centerfield defense and can afford Bradley. Even though they have Hernandez, it is better to have more than enough defense (they get plenty of flexibility too). They also get the added benefit of buying low and getting plenty of compensation to take on the deal.
To make Bradley earn his contract, they simply need him to him close to career average, similar to how the Rays deal with Kiermaier.
Mario93
Red Sox overachieved last year, and Renfroe played above his stock. I’m guessing the prospects they got back are pretty solid! Renfroe could be bad next year who knows.. I don’t that it’s a bad trade depending on the prospects. They could be selling high on Renfroe.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Agreed if it was just Renfroe for prospects, but why take back the bad contract?
Mario93
Probably think he can improve in Boston. He’s a true CF.. But yeah, guessing Boston thinks he’s much better then what he batted last year, which is not hard to improve upon.
theodore glass
KD17 can finally be happy again.
acell10
He’ll never happy as long as Devers is on the Red Sox playing ahead of Bobby Dalbec
deweybelongsinthehall
Sox are hoping if Dalbec plays full time, he’ll match or exceed Renfroe’s production. Thus move was about the minor leagues and improving team defense in 22 with KH going full-time to second.
bobtillman
It is weird trade, but even the most loyal Sox fan has to admit they were simply wretched defensively last year. Re-adding Schwarber (RF) actually makes it worse, so much so that its almost historically bad, if that’s what they do.
The prospects look “meh”; mid-teens guys in a fairly terrible system. But Chaim must see something.
MannyPineappleExpress9
Im not even going to try and grade this deal from talent or baseball in general standpoint. I’m just shocked the Brews found someone to take JBJ.
I’m a little curious to see how many claim he is now a good player (again?), simply because he’s no longer with Milwaukee.
dopt
Really dumb. Vertigo, Kiki. And JBJ as a 4/5 OF.
Duran can’t hit. Maybe they want a heather or bellinger. Idk
yewed
Renfroe should rake in his new stadium.
MikeSadek3333
so if reading right, Bradley has an 11mil player opt and a 6.5 buy out–does that mean the buy out is up to the Red Sox???–if so, and if i read right, Renfroe is up for arb–made 3.3 this year–lets for fun say he gets 6.5 in arb—same as Bradley buy out–technically, if the Sox have the buy out, then can just buy him out for same price that they woulda paid Renfroe—plus they get 2 prospects sorta for 0 dollars, whom i dont know how they rank–but they look decent–since it would be an even money deal for the Sox, 6.5 going out, 6,5 owed Renfroe, they could either go out and get a free agent for a new OF, or give Renfroes spot to someone on the 40 man roster right now–
acell10
He’s projected to get 7 and I believe Bradley already picked up his option
MikeSadek3333
so they buy out was a player buy out??–
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I did not see the buyout on BR just the 11 mil salary for Bradley, maybe you are right?
Dorothy_Mantooth
No. The JBJ option was a player option and JBJ already picked it up. He could have declined for the buyout and re-entered free agency but after his piss poor year last season, he made the smart choice. Boston is stuck with him. He carries a $13M CBT value too I believe.
MannyPineappleExpress9
JBJ had a player option, which he already picked up for next season at $11 or $12 mil (if there is one), and I believe it also locks him in for 2023, but im not sure what the salary is for ’23.
Vanilla Good
It is a player option and Bradley already opted in.
GASoxFan
JBJ will earn $9.5m in 2022, and has a 2023 mutual option of $12m or $8m buyout.
He could’ve taken a $6.5m buyout this year, but wisely chose not to in order to lock in the $8m to $12m in 2023.
KD17
GASoxFan – Funny how a 2 year $24M deal somehow gets converted to $9.5M in 2022 but $12M in 2023. Where did the other $2.5M go?
The Spotrac projection for Renfroe is $7.5M. They usually are a bit high.
So roughly $10M left? Should be interesting to see what or if there is a new luxury cap. Will it be a hard cap like other sports or an incredibly soft cap that LA and NY will continue to ignore. This could be a very long lock out if owners are going to try and recoup money lost during COVID.
GASoxFan
KD17 – the way they’re adding it is the guaranteed money. JBJ earned 6.5m in 21, gets 9.5m in 22, and is guaranteed an 8m buyout in 23 on what could become 12m if both sides exercise their options.
So it’s 24m guaranteed on the two year term including the buyout that’s vested now, with a possibility of becoming a 3/28m if fully excercised
KD17
GASoxFan – OK. I think I followed what you said but let me confirm I understood.
2 yr 2021 and 2022
2021 JBJ earns $6.5 leaving $17.5 of the 2 year $24M contract
2022 JBJ earns $9.5 leaving $8M of the $24M to be paid to him as a buyout.
2023 JBJ earns $8M when he exercises the buyout?
So is it really a three year $24M contract that allows JBJ to have a guaranteed $8M salary in 2023?
This deal pushes money into 2023 for Boston but there is no actual value received by Boston for that money? JBJ becomes the latest retained payroll where money is paid for no player value? That’s the very thing that has created financial problems for Boston over the last decade!
Did I state that correctly. If I did this is an even bigger disaster than I realized unless they trade JBJ and the buyout. I guess with Price finally rolling off the books Bloom felt adding new retained payroll to reduce the available cap money was yet another wise financial decision!!
GASoxFan
You sort of did.
When you get to 2023, there are two ways things go.
1) both sides exercise their options and JBJ earns $12m – makes it a 3/28 pact 2021-23.
2) either party declines their option, and JBJ receives an $8m buyout. It’s now a 2/24 pact 2021-22.
No matter what happens, if baseball is being played JBJ earns a minimum of $8m even if he refuses to return for the season.
bennyhaha
the buy out is money you will pay JBJ to go away. enjoy 🙂
Ronk325
This deal is awful for Boston. They’re trading one of their better hitters from last year, who was also quite good defensively, for one of the worst hitters in the league and adding to their payroll. The two prospects going to Boston don’t seem like anything special either. I’d love to hear Sox fans spin this as a positive
chaim bloom
this means that they are getting a bat in the market might be Bryant
duffys cliff
I don’t like the move, but a few positives on the Boston side:
Boston had a HORRIBLE defense last year, and Renfroe was a huge part of that. Yeah he led RFs in assists, but he lead all outfielders in errors. JBJ is a monumental upgrade defensively. Worth the price difference/loss of control in Renfroe? I don’t think so. But, did Renfroe just have a career year and the Sox sold “high” on that? Maybe.
The “high” was the two prospects, and Binelas seems to be the prize here. He’s young, but he mashed in college and mashed in his first pro season. If he can continue to hit, learn to play defense somewhere, and move steadily up the minor league ranks, he can be the player to remember in this trade.
Overall though, it’s too big of a gamble for the Sox, and while I value defense A LOT, that may be an over valuing of JBJ’s glove.
MannyPineappleExpress9
They have to value his glove. I swear he hit .150 last season. He was so bad Brewer fans started calling him KBK cuz he struck out twice and bounced out in between.
Ronk325
Right but it just seems like a move that a rebuilding team would make, not a team that played in the ALCS last year. I’ve seen people say this means that Verdugo moves to RF and they bring back Schwarber to play LF but we’ll see
yewed
This whole trade really only affects next season. Renfroe wasn’t part of the Sox future so why not trade him. They can always try to sign him again when he hits free agency if they want.
On the surface it seems like a bad trade but there are more winners than losers.
JBJ goes back to Boston, Renfroe gets traded to a playoff team and should do well in that ballpark, Sox help the farm system. Brewers get a huge upgrade.
The only “losers” I see are the Sox fans who were expecting one thing a got another.
stymeedone
The problem is not that they traded Renfroe, its that they are a weaker team in 2022 for accepting that return.
roiste
Y’all are focusing on the wrong part of this deal. JBJ is just salary relief for the Sox – and even if they keep him on the roster, they have a better chance then anyone of getting is bat back to an acceptable level. The real get here is the prospects.
People are also overrating Renfroe. Yeah he hit 30 jacks, but he was worth less than 2 WAR and his defense was BAD. People hype up the arm, but led all outfields in errors in the outfield and displayed less than impressive range. He was a bad fit for Fenway, and I’m kind of glad he’s off the Sox.
As a Sox fan, I like this deal. They get some more prospects, add a great defensive outfielder, and clear the way for another outfield addition (Schwarber??) down the line
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
trash
1984wasntamanual
How is he salary relief, he makes more than renfroe?
Dorothy_Mantooth
@ Roiste – How is JBJ salary relief when he costs nearly $5M more than Renfroe will make in arbitration? He’s $13M of dead weight on Boston’s payroll now…ugh!
roiste
I misspoke. He’s salary relief for the Brewers, taken on by the Sox to boost the prospect return.
VegasSDfan
Rofl. Renfroe seemed like a crowd favorite. The Red Sox got two suspects and a 4A player in return.
Sabermetric Acolyte
Why???
HalosHeavenJJ
Poor JBJ. He’d escaped Fenway once and now thrown back there.
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
Poor JBJ? Imagine being paid $12M to be a detriment to your employer.
HalosHeavenJJ
I wouldn’t wish being a black guy in Fenway on him, though.
deweybelongsinthehall
Talk like that is disgusting. JBJ never to my knowledge was exposed to racist talk. Fact is he was huge in the community. His and us wife’s
JeffreyChungus
JJ is known for his ignorant takes. Funny how so many important Sox players in recent memory– Betts, Bradley, Burks, Ortiz, Vaughn, Manny, Pedro, etc.– have never talked about any sort of racist abuse hurled at them during or after their time in Boston. It’s almost like it’s an outdated narrative whose perpetrators are few and far between for many decades. The demand exceeds the supply, though, and people will look for anything to confirm their biases.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I have no personal knowledge, but Torii Hunter and Adam Jones were widely quoted in the media to the contrary. And the Red Sox acknowledged it.
sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/red-sox-admit-racism-…
I am not suggesting that this is unique to Boston. Rather, I am saying that just because a poster is trolling, does not mean the best response is to diminish the issue of racist fans being abusive.
yewed
Just because Boston players don’t talk about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen It’s ok if they go after other players as long as they’re not Red Sox?
Few and far between doesn’t mean what they said didn’t happen. I love Boston, have family there and love most of the people that I’ve met there.
That doesn’t change the fact that they have a history and reputation of racism. I’ve witnessed it more than once. Racism exists everywhere. In some places more than others.
yewed
I do have personal knowledge but people don’t want to hear it.
It’s never unique to a certain location but that doesn’t seem to matter. This is a baseball site and I get it. Unfortunately racism is a big part of the history of baseball and still happens but it’s obviously better to ignore it and move on because that’s worked out so well in the past. .
yewed
Yes it’s disgusting but why can’t we talk about it? By not discussing it does the problem go away?
The MLB has a long history of racism. Ignoring that and thinking that it doesn’t exist doesn’t make it go away.
JBJ may or may not have any experience with racist talk in Boston. If he didn’t doesn’t mean it didn’t happen to other players.. If he did then he doesn’t want to acknowledge it and that’s his choice. Still doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
JoeBrady
I am not suggesting that this is unique to Boston.
=======================================
Any time you get a crowd of 34,000 together, the chances of having no one there with a racist attitude, is -0-.. It’s unfortunate, but not unexpected.
HalosHeavenJJ
It’s not an outdated narrative of it still happens today. If guys like Torii Hunter always have a no trade to Boston clause in their contract.
When Sox players like Crawford are having home fans removed from the stands for yelling epithets at him.
There a reason Betts wouldn’t sign an extension and that black players almost never sign there as free agents. Fenway is, by far, the most openly hostile ballpark.
Rsox
I remember many number 42 jerseys being worn by people of all races at Fenway back when Mo Vaughn played for the Sox. I know people say things but i would find it incredibly hard to believe with as long as player played that every single time Jones and Hunter played in Boston they had a bad experience. As for Crawford, he had extensive playing time in Boston with Rays and knew what he was getting into when a took the money and signed.
I know people say things. I’ve sat in LF at Dodgers Stadium when Barry Bonds was playing for the Giants and heard some pretty horrible things but that doesn’t reflect the entire city or fan base. Look at LeBron, gets two fans ejected from the Lakers game in Indiana last week and we still don’t know what was said, and then he ironically gets fined $15000 for flipping off the crowd at the end of the game.
Vanilla Good
SLINGIN STEARNS MY MAN
soxfan1
Binalas was just a third round pick and is a slugger. David Hamilton hit well after a promotion to AA too. So basically two top 20 prospects and a backup outfielder for taking on 4.4 million and selling high on Renfroe. They might send some cash over too when more details come out. Hope this is just preceding a bigger move.
ottoc 2
One of the commenters said that Binelas and Hamilton were rated 16/17 in the Brewers’ system. There are 30 teams that have prospects ranked from 1 to 15. That is 450 players. Of course, a player ranked number 1 in one team’s system could rank 30th, or worse, overall but how many players ranked 16/17 go on to have solid MLB careers?
And the article talks about Verdugo and Duran flanking Bradley. Verdugo doesn’t hit LHP very well and Duran, in his short time on the Red Sox roster, didn’t show that he could hit at all.
Frankly, I think it is about time that John Henry, et all, and the Fenway Sports Group sold the team so they can get on with buying an NFL franchise and a new ownership interested solely in baseball come in to rebuild the team.
JohhnyBets67
You Boston fans are nuts. Must be bc of the recent city success that made you spoiled whiny fans.
You damn near made the WS last year with half of Chris Sale and a slapped together bullpen. Have a little patience and faith in your management.
Dorothy_Mantooth
WTF is Chaim doing? Bringing back JBJ and his .160 average for a 30 HR, 90+ RBI guy who costs $5M less? And Duran is coming back next year and will figure out major league pitching too. Unless one of these prospects is Top 5 organizationally, this makes ZERO sense. Boston just got worse IMO and I loved JBJ in his prime.
yewed
We can only assume (and hope) that this is part of a bigger plan.
We knew Bloom was going to build up the farm system. He’s done that. Something I thought about and is just my opinion – what is the quickest way to build up the farm system with this current team? A bunch of decent players with expiring contracts after this season. If they tank this year all of those players can be traded for prospects. After last season maybe it was a fluke they went as far as they did last season and this was the plan all along.
Just the conspiracy theory of the night.
YourDreamGM
I don’t think last year was a fluke. They will certainly trade off expiring players if the team is out of playoff race. But this trade doesn’t signal they are trying to tank. JBJ could easily be decent and lots of free agents left. They have too much power in their lineup to tank.
yewed
Based on career numbers of players and the previous season, I think it’s fair to have the discussion on last season being a fluke.
If you believe Bloom knew this and saw something in these players then why would you believe this off season is any different? You only trust if you agree with the decisions?
JBJ could definitely be decent but his history says differently. Not saying they are tanking but I think the argument can be made either way. After next season they will have a ridiculous amount of money available to sign people.
JoeBrady
“And Duran is coming back next year and will figure out major league pitching too.”
===============================
I think this is Bloom’s way of saying, no, he isn’t.
That said, there has to be a part B to this, or it makes no sense. I’ve heard others mention it, but could Schwarber or the Japanese RF be coming? One of my thoughts early on was to sign the Japanese guy and trade Renfroe.
cdr9er
WTF
cdr9er
Please tell me this isn’t real
thickiedon
Glad JBJ got away from those racist fans.
Vanilla Good
Yeah there aren’t any racists in Boston LOL
thickiedon
I’m being sarcastic. All the crap about Boston fans being racist but JBJ is loved by their fans
yewed
What are you talking about? Have you ever been to Boston?
I’m a Sox fan but go to 50 Brewer games a year and have never heard any racist comments towards players. I’ve been to Boston a handful of times and heard a racist comment every time during a game.
Nothing against either city or it’s people but that’s my experience.
deweybelongsinthehall
Stop with the radical garbage and JBJ. Having been to many places, sadly such is not limited to Boston. While the city is known for its history, JBJ had been nothing but loved. He and his wife’s charity work are well known in the community.
yewed
It’s not radical garbage it’s only my experience.. If my comments came across differently that wasn’t my intention. I have nothing but love for the city of Boston and the people that live there. I have family in Boston and enjoy every time I go there.
You’re right it’s not limited to Boston just like it’s not limited to Milwaukee. The OP made a reference to Milwaukee and I only tried to say that racism exists in both cities and neither one is better than the other in that aspect.
deweybelongsinthehall
I meant racial not radical. Either way, it is sad to hear but they won’t stop selling beer and most talk is due to alcohol consumptionn.
yewed
You’re right on all accounts. but dismissing the facts and blaming alcohol consumption doesn’t change the reality. Just because somebody’s drunk doesn’t mean what they say or do gives them an excuse for racism. Baseball is all about history and we love talking about it. The good and bad of everything baseball except racism. That’s just my experience.
We acknowledge it happened but dismiss that it still does happen. . We make excuses about alcohol, and it’s not that bad and ignorant takes. and get over it. Always more and more excuses.
All I’m saying is it’s been a part of baseball and it’s still apart of baseball. One players experience doesn’t mean it’s the same for all players. Acknowledging it and talking about it doesn’t make anybody guilty and it isn’t a bad thing.
I realize this isn’t the forum for all this but it was brought up so I replied. It’s my two cents so take it for what it’s worth. Which is less than two cents.
JoeBrady
Just because somebody’s drunk doesn’t mean what they say or do gives them an excuse for racism.
==============================
This is a numbers issue, exacerbated by alcohol.. If you have 34,000 people, just using my 1 in a 1,000 theory, you’ll have 34 racists, 34 people that abuse their spouse, 34 people that are embezzling money from their employer, 34 people cheating on their taxes, etc.
bjupton100
I’m curious if you guys think people who say “you’re mom” while crap talking a player are against women.
kingcong95
You could not live with your failure.
And where did that lead you?
phillyballers
Maybe his phone was hacked. Or he was hitting the sauce? Why deal for middle of the road prospects and a guy a few steps away from ST invites only?
Rsox
Does this mean Schwarber’s coming back? Because if not this makes no sense
User 3663041837
Brewers save some money and get a new right fielder and the Sox buy 2 prospects and pick up a 4th outfielder. I know nothing about either prospect but the Sox front office must see something in them to warrant taking on that contract.
Luckybrew
Just dumping JB Jr. salary is worth giving up the 2 minor league players. But getting Renfroe in this trade is a huge benefit for the Brewer’s. You can plug him to the outfield and not miss a beat and save $$$$.
dasit
selling high on renfroe and both prospects are intriguing. not as bad as it looks on the surface. if they sign schwarber and put him in left field they’ll needs someone like jbj to cover 95% of his territory
8ManLineupNoPitcherNoDH
F
KD17
dasit – Neither prospect is intriguing. One has speed and no other skill. He’s even a below average fielder. The other has a big bat but can’t field and plays 3B and DH. It’s like getting a young version of Devers and it’s unlikely there will be two DH spots in the future. Fielding is becoming a lost art!!!
Bloom hasn’t done much right so far but getting Renfroe turned out to be a good move so naturally he gets rid of him. At this rate, Pivetta is likely to be the next player traded because that’s the ONLY other good deal Bloom has made in two years!!
Less than $10M under the cap so Schwarber is out of their price range.
JeffreyChungus
Have you watched a single pitch of Red Sox baseball in the past ten years or are you really this dumb?
KD17
Fletcher – Are you addressing me with your ignorant comment that lacks substance and intelligence?
Go back to texting. It’s more your style. This site is for intelligent human beings who can articulate a complete thought.
kenny217
People acting like Renfroe was a top player in baseball or something. He was non tendered by one of the best organizations in baseball a year ago. He had a career year.
KD17
kenny – Everything you said is correct YET picking up a higher cost outfielder when you are $10M or less from the cap seems like a bad move. Add to it that JBJ is ONLY better on defense and grossly over paid, it’s a terrible move.
I agree that Renfroe had a career year like so many on the team last year but his bad year is still better than JBJ from an offensive perspective.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The bad move was taking a bad contract. They could have CUT Renfroe and I would go “whoa” but not “stupid”. But if they have to pay for Bradley this year and next year, that is way more money than the prospects are worth.
mikedickinson
JBJ will be the Sox 4th outfielder. Hope this means Schwarber will be back.
Bosox2013
Renfroe wasn’t a good fit defensively for Fenway. JBJ gives Cora the flexibility to use Kiké in that utility role and platoon with JBJ for CF. Everyone clamoring for Schwarber needs to STOP! Look he’s a good hitter who can get on base but he’s an awful outfielder and while I give him credit for pretty much learning 1st at the big league level, he’s awful there. I’m guessing Verdugo goes to RF and left is occupied by Duran because he throws like J Damon or they sign someone else. Bradley was super inconsistent at the plate in Boston but he’s probably better than last years dreadful numbers too.
yewed
I agree Schwarber is not a good fit in Boston. My prediction based on current roster is Verdugo stays in left, JBJ in center and Kiké moves to right. Of course they’ll be mixed and matched during the season. After last season Duran doesn’t seem ready as of yet.
If for some reason they do get Schwarber he could play LF for a year, JBJ in center, Verdugo in right and move Kiké to 2nd. After next season it’s a complete crap shoot. .
ClevelandSteelEngines
A calculating move from Chaim Bloom. Renfroe’s career year is perfect to trade. Although Bloom is giving up control via arbitration before free agency, Bloom avoids paying to arbitration jumps and manages to add defensive replacement and farm depth of value. Bradley is better than last season suggests, and we know his defense hasn’t waned. The shorter aspect of the deal means there is a little risk, and while Bradley’s cost will be higher, the Red Sox are compensated with the speedster Hamilton and the power-hitting corner infielder Binelas.
I think this deal doesn’t seem like a winner for the Red Sox, but thinking about it all around, it checks off all the boxes for the Sox.
KD17
Cleveland – More money to JBJ. One crap middle infielder prospect and one good hitting bad fielding 3B prospect. Renfroe being sold high is a good thing normally but the value coming back should be higher than Renfroe on a bad year!!
ClevelandSteelEngines
Yes, and? Bradley’s elite skill is more valuable, hence why the Brewers signed him at that price. The Sox didn’t pursue him last winter due to self-imposed restraints. Since then, Bradley’s poor season opened the door for the Sox to take advantage. They get a guy likely to have positive regression on his BABIP (who also needs to turn his career around or he will be left without a job next season) just as they did with Renfroe in 2021.
It should also be noted that Bradley had wrist surgery before the start of the season last year. Although it shouldn’t be an excuse, wrists are awfully important for hitting and can be very damaging when not fully healed. Now that time has passed after the surgery, they seem to be fine paying the price premium for Bradley, especially since they can afford it now with more room under their self-imposed cap.
By buying low on Renfroe and giving up one year of Bradley, they managed to get solid outfield contributions within their budget, avoided a catastrophic season by Bradley, and added two, not crap/bad, solid Top 20 team prospects. This is a fantastic return for turning down Bradley’s demands after wrist surgery. And while there is still a risk that Bradley form fails to return in 2022, the prospects account for that risk.
YourDreamGM
A for MIL. Dumped salary and added a useful starting of.
D for BOS. I don’t hate it. JBJ could have a 700 ops again. The 2021 3rd rounder has a nice bat. I just think MIL was so ready to move that contract that BOS could have got slightly better prospects or a 3rd prospect.
Bruin1012
I’m wondering if this is foreshadowing a return of Schwarber and trading Duran for more pitching help.
mils100
The only place JBJ has some vaue is at Fenway. His splits are borderline comical. Still, nice way for Milwaukee to replace Avi and dump JBJ while not giving up much.
KingRyan227
Binelas a home town kid played against him all throughout highschool kids got some serious talent
sheerterror
John Henry’s wife will be happy about him bringing back her little blm buddy.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
sheerterror:
Are you a bigot?
sheerterror
Are you?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Is this what is meant when people allude to Boston fans being racist ?
blockheag36
You have to feel bad for Renfroe… He goes from a team with unlimited resources to a team that traded for him to keep the lights on. Good move by the brewers, as this is their only window. they can’t pay Yelich and their pitchers after this season with the new CBA and a very weak farm system they have to go for it.
MannyPineappleExpress9
I don’t think the Brewers traded jbj to ‘keep the lights on.’ They traded him because a) he stunk last year, thus his salary was wasted, and b) he opted IN for the next 2 years, and MKE didn’t want to pay him for more of the same.
Amanda
fans are literally saying ‘ welcome back jackie’
blind, or just mentally misguided?
yewed
Yes!!!
Amanda
all i can say is hopefully JBJ gets hurt, or covid and cant play next season( assuming we have a season) but you need to assume hes gonna be traded, i still think boston will get trevor story or a better than average pitcher, now he can say’ well i have an elite defender at center field im looking to trade, who will hit 170 for your team and strike out 789 times out of 789 times.
GASoxFan
You are truly a horrible person to hope a player gets hurt or catches covid.
Perhaps we should wish the same upon you.
2001morecowbell2001
God I wish you would end up on the IL with COVID so we can stop reading your pink hat nuttery you awful human
Mi Casas es tu Casas
I’ve seen a lot of awful comments here but that’s the first time I’ve seen injury or death wished on someone.
Amanda
also you need to ask, why did Milwaukee sign Jackie to begin with? we got renfroe from tampa, boston could have simply played both, like i dont know much about the brewers but i doubt last year they said WE NEED JACKIE BRADLEY JR! and last, his last season in boston his defense was basically below average, he gave up, i cant think of a trade i have ever seen that is worse than this, of basically any sport, the closest would be when the Oilers traded Wayne Gretzky,
yewed
I think there’s been far worst trades in sports history but as far Boston trades, trading Bagwell wasn’t that great nor was trading Tris Speaker. There’s always the Schilling trade and of course Babe Ruth.
dsett75
The Tigers traded some A-ball guy named Smoltz for Doyle Alexander in 87. In their defense though, Alexander went 9-0 for us down the stretch to outlast Toronto for the division. The Twins killed us in 5 in the ALCS though.
Amanda
they ARENT gonna resign Schwarber , get over it, hes not an everyday 1st baseman and thats EXACTLY what we need, we also dont need 2 dh’s, you do realize hes literally on a team that doesnt need him, right?
baseballguru
Defense improved, farm improved, offense regressed.
Alex LHB Louisville (21) a .300 ba 1b/3b good arm, iffy glove. David is a 2b arm, speedster, decent bat .245 Texas 24yrs old. You know what JBJ is…it’s a head scratcher but not the worst thing…this is a rebuild remember! Stocking the farm now is a good idea we will, or have the potential to lose, Sale, Eovaldi, (was Renfroe) Vasquez, Bogey, Kike, JD at the end of 2022! We should have a shit ton of cash & if Bobby D, Yorke, Arroyo, Casas, Whitlock & Houch can make strides (not to leavenout Duran, Downs) we should & could have a core emerging within 2 to 3 years of each other! Huge for getting solid free agents. In my mind however we should strike in 2022 with Correa but not for 10 years. Give him a high AAV for 6 or 7 max waiting for Mayer.
baseballguru
Alex was ranked 65th on top 100 out of Louisville but looks like he dropped off in the latest list shuffle with the new kids when Mayer went from #1 to #9 & Casas #18 we’re building a Dynasty it’ll take some time but I’m up for 3 or 4 rings in a decade again! Go Bloome…just remember Correa you should go get…with this many contracts dropping in 23 you can & should at SS! Do it! It works for the rebuild
KD17
baseballguru – How ironic a name!!! Bloom has no clue. Bloom won’t get Correa EVER. There will not be a dynasty in Boston until after Bloom and Cora are gone.
Help me with the 3 or 4 rings in a decade comment. TB has ZERO rings under his leadership. Boston got the 4th pick in the draft after his first year. How does one leap from a two year performance that sucked to winning 3 or 4 rings? Is that new math? Are they going to fire Bloom and hire DD?
You do realize Bloom took a team in it’s prime, destroyed it so he could build sustainable greatness some time down the road. I’m not seeing it in my lifetime and unless you are 12 and have 74 more years to live, either are you!!!
yewed
Isn’t Bloom doing what he was hired to do? When have you ever seen a Boston dynasty? How many times this century has anybody seen a baseball dynasty?
Not saying I have any idea what the OP is talking about in some of his comments but can’t say I won’t see it again in my lifetime. I said that once and was happily proven wrong.
KD17
Yewed – For me, Bloom is failing to create a sustainable winning tradition. I think that’s what he promised to ownership.
You are right. One dynasty in baseball from 1919 to 1962 when the Yankees won the world series half of the years. Now people think of the fifteen years in Boston as a dynasty and maybe that is the new definition but it pails in comparison to the only true dynasty created by the most non level playing field in the history of sports. NY spent the most money every year and won fifty percent of the time. Funny thing is that they continued the spending tradition throughout their history but have failed miserably since 1962. Yes, more titles than Boston but billions more money spent on players for the few extra rings.
Closest thing to a dynasty in Boston happened in the sixties with the Celtics or the 2000s with Brady and the Patriots. Four rings in 15 years still puts a smile on my face!!! Dynasty or no dynasty.
JohhnyBets67
Chaim Bloom has been the Red Sox GM for 2 years.
One full season and one pandemic shortened season. You just went to the ALDS.
Really coming off as a bunch of Spoiled whiny Boston boys without a clue. You don’t build a sustainable winner without a minor league pipeline. Boston did not have anything close to that before Bloom came in. He’s building that—got you to the ALDS last year. The offseason just started—im positive he has another move here. A little patience maybe?
ffrhb14Sox
Boston’s farm was at a low bc it had graduated so much MLB talent. Building the farm up was going to happen with or without Bloom. The goal should not be to have a top farm every year unless you are a team that can’t retain your major league talent and constantly have ti start over.
JoeBrady
It’s really more the draft.
2012-No one
2013-No one
2014-Kopech
2015-Benni
2016-Dalbec
2017-Houck
2018-Duran
Even on the international side, Devers was acquired in 2013, and Bogaerts in 2009, and then there was the ERod trade in 2014. It’s possible I am missing someone, but we have acquired/developed almost no prospects since 2013.
Kind of interesting how we survived this long, other than Theo struck gold in 2011.
ffrhb14Sox
Just last year’s team; Vazquez, Dalbec, Bogaerts, Devers, Houck, Barnes, and several relievers like Hernandez and Taylor. Chavis started on the team. As you mentioned guys like Betts, JBJ, Benintendi were playing on other MLB teams. Don’t forget they traded away Moncada, Kopech, Margot. They consistently have guys from their farm contribute from all stars to role players. Has been that way for decades.
JoeBrady
Margot was signed in 2011. Our system have not acquired almost any good prospects for a 6-year period.
ffrhb14Sox
Narrowing it to the last 6 years means you include a year they won the WS and draft pick penalties. Also hasn’t given time for guys like Casas, Mayer, Yorke, Song to play out. Groome was a good pick but health happens with pitchers. Mata, similar story. Still, over the last few decades, lots of talent came up in their system, always a big part of the team.
JoeBrady
That’s why I picked the 6-year period. The last two drafts have great potential.. And the discussion has nothing to do with the last few decades. It’s a discussion about why the farm was so low when Bloom arrived. It was because we 6 years of poor drafts.
ffrhb14Sox
The reason I am talking about the last 2 decades is that there is nothing new about Boston building from their farm. A few year window impacted by injuries, draft penalties, and picking late because you are winning on the prior strength of your system is just a short term valley.
JoeBrady
We will have to agree to disagree. IMO, Thoe owned the draft, and so far, Bloom’s guys look real good. And I am looking forward to seeing what Groopman can add with his Caribbean/S.A. experience.
But I was not impressed by the Cherington/DD drafts.
mac1020142
Seiya Suzuki and Story , Story goes to 2nd and Seiya Suzuki to right where he plays Jackie is fourth outfielder or traded for someone else’s bad contract but one that works for us , Jackie isn’t going to be a fourth OF though to much money unless the Brewers sent some our way , there has to be more to this trade for the Sox , Maybe Duran gets traded with Jackie for something else better and we get Story and Seiya Suzuki and maybe a pitcher from somewhere
KD17
mac – Where is the money coming from? Bloom has less than $10M under the cap!! Story is too expensive for Bloom but if he came to Boston he would play 3B so Devers can move to DH and JD can play outfield or be traded to gain money to get pitching.
I would love to see Story in a Red Sox uniform but it’s highly unlikely.
deweybelongsinthehall
After the CBA is inked, both the Yankees and Sox will consider exceeding it. it didn’t make sense to risk signing players now without knowing the ramifications. I actually like JBJ full time in center and am willing to concede his bat is limited. I’m concerned about the corner slots as he can’t do it alone. For most of his time in Boston he had Betts and Betts had him.
AL34
Not at the money they are paying JBJ. He is going to be the starter. Don’t get your hopes high. The minute they let EROD walk I knew we were in cheap underwhelming offers mode.
humphrey x boegarts
dear lord why?!
KD17
OK for all you fans tracking payroll Bloom just added $12M and lost an estimated $7.5M.
They added a player they cut and two prospects named David Hamilton and Alex Binelas
David Hamilton is a college guy who at age 24 in 2022 will have 101 games in the minors at Hi-A and AA. He doesn’t hit for average, he doesn’t hit for power, he’s a middle infielder with speed and a slightly better glove than Devers. Upside – I’m not seeing it but it may be that Cora knows him from his days in Houston when Hamilton played at UT.
Alex Binelas is also a college guy but he was born in 2000 so 2022 will be his 22 year old season. Drafted out of Louisville in the 2021 draft (3rd rd by MIL) he’s played 36 games at the professional levels of ROK and A ball. Rookie ball lasted 7 games and he was promoted to A ball. A ball was 29 games and he had a good season. Hit over .300 with an OBP of .379 and an OPS over 1.000. Small sample but an excellent sample. Here is the bad news. He plays DH and 3B and his defense is worse than Devers!!! He projects as a DH unless he can do what Devers couldn’t do, improve on defense!!
It appears Binelas is the diamond in the rough if there is one in this deal. My guess is Hamilton was requested by Cora since he has no discernible talent other than speed.
The less than $10M under the cap has now been cut in half. Since the lock out has started the cap may not be an issue when play resumes, if play resumes in the foreseeable future.
augold5
Plus JBJs 8M buyout for next year. I agree with your prospect evaluation though
notstarboard
KD17, all signs to Boston not caring about the luxury tax threshold this year. You don’t make a trade like this if you’re intending to stay under. Plus, the amount of key guys on the way out the door after 2022 is staggering and they’ve already reset the tax penalties. This is absolutely a year to spend.
When you realize that the money doesn’t matter in 2022, the deal becomes Bradley + two prospects for Renfroe. Renfroe was worth 1.8 fWAR in 2021 and is projected for 1.3 fWAR in 2022. That’s a below average MLB right fielder. He was not likely to be that valuable in 2022 at a projected arbitration salary of $7.6 million and 2023 would only make the problem worse. There was actually speculation that he might be non-tendered to clear the way for the Sox to sign a free agent RF, and with this trade, it’s clear to me that this is Bloom’s plan.
From 2015-2020, JBJ’s lowest OPS+ total was 89. He averaged a 94 OPS+ for his career in Boston, and this includes his 49 OPS+ over 423 PA in 2014 when he was thrown out there all season as an overmatched 24 year old because it was a last place team and they had no one else better. There is therefore ample reason to expect him to bounce back. Being back at Fenway will probably be a boost for him.
Still, I would be very surprised to see JBJ slot into RF, or push Hernandez to RF. A team that seems primed to go over the luxury tax threshold and compete for a playoff spot is not going to want to bank on JBJ locking down a starting OF spot and then having a guy like Jarren Duran, who struggled at the major league level last year, as the fourth OF. There is not a doubt in my mind that Bloom intends to sign another corner outfielder and use JBJ as the fourth OF.
The Red Sox have been reported as one of the teams aggressively pursuing Seiya Suzuki, who would appear to fit the team perfectly. Natural RF, excellent bat, right-handed hitter to replace Renfroe and complement the left-handed OFs in Verdugo and Bradley, entering his prime at 27 years old, etc. Bloom has also stated that he’s interested in retaining Schwarber, and while I don’t think this is nearly as good of an option, it’s certainly another realistic avenue the team could go down.
Assuming the Sox do sign a corner OF that would be an upgrade over Renfroe, this trade makes a ton of sense in the big picture. JBJ is a heck of a fourth OF to have, given his experience at Fenway, the difficulty of playing both CF and RF in Boston, and the real potential for his bat to bounce back. The Sox would have therefore gotten a stronger lineup and a stronger bench, all while adding to the farm, and improving their defense, which was an issue in 2021 (albeit more due to the infield, but still).
I haven’t even gotten into the prospects, either. You keep dismissing them as “crap”, but I see two very promising players. Yes, they were ranked #16-17 in the Brewers’ weak system, but those rankings have not been updated to reflect the awesome 2021 both of these guys had. Binelas in particular was in a handful of early mocks as a top 10 pick in the 2021 draft before slumping to start the year and hurting his stock. He had a 163 wRC+ in A ball this year with a whopping .322 ISO. Fangraphs has him as a 45 fielder, so there’s a chance he sticks at 3B. If his bat reaches his potential, he could be solid in LF or 1B too.
Fangraphs grades Hamilton as a 50 hit, 55 field, and 70 speed player. That’s a profile that can absolutely work. He was 52/61 in steals this year and had a .351 OBP in 309 PA at A+ ball before being promoted (.322 in 150 PA after). There’s no guarantee that either will pan out, but denying the potential of these guys doesn’t feel honest. Both had great 2021s and have solid tools.
TL;DR provided Bloom signs a solid RF and then continues spending over the cap to patch other holes in the roster, which is the clear intention, this trade will have helped make the 2022 team stronger on both sides of the ball while also strengthening the farm. There’s little long-term risk either, since the absolute worst case scenario is JBJ reprising 2021. In that case the Sox DFA him or buy him out and take an $8 million hit next year.
humphrey x boegarts
this trade is the equivalent of someone kicking you in the nads, stealing your wallet, and then asking you to pay their rent for a year and you agree
ramon garciaparra
For the Red Sox this deal is all about the prospects, bringing in potential replacements for Bogaerts and Devers to avoid paying huge 8 to 10 year contracts that can ruin a team’s financial flexibility. In Bloom’s world you trade the free agent to be like Renfroe and Mookie, Longoria,and Archer before him in exchange for prospects to fill the minor league pipeline with options to replace upcoming expiring contracts. This strategy avoids making the huge dollar 8 to 10 year commitments in the less productive second half of a player’s career that ruin a team’s financial flexibility. It will not be a surprise if the next move will be to trade Bogaerts and find a short term contract like an Iglesias to pair with Kiki at shortstop while they develop the young shortstops in the system.
Cap & Crunch
This deal has nothing to do w prospects –
You will probably never see either of those guys in the in a Red Sox uniform
notstarboard
Cap, this deal would not have happened without the prospects. There is no chance the Sox trade Renfroe for Bradley straight up without them.
Prospects are basically just another currency, so these guys don’t need to ever play for the Sox to be valuable (see Michael Kopech and Yoan Moncada). At the end of the day, having good players in your system at all levels is going to pay dividends for the major league squad.
augold5
Hamilton will be a utility IF and pinch runner at best. Binelas has the bat to potentially be a ML regular, but his defense will limit him to 1B/DH, so he will need to be a great hitter. That is their ceiling, I wouldn’t pencil them into your future ML roster quite yet
ffrhb14Sox
Bogaerts is on a team friendly contract that only ends if he opts out after this year. They just drafted a SS who is their top prospect. Unless he tells them before the trade deadline that he is opting out, he stays. If he opts out, then you likely only need a year or two max gap filler. Devers on the other hand, could get an 8 to 10 year deal. Do it now and let him know he will be primarily a DH starting next season.
notstarboard
Bogaerts is 100% opting out, barring a career-destroying Manny Machado slide into his knee. He’s not going to opt into 3/60 at age 30 after watching guys like Semien get 7/175 at age 31.
spitball
Ok, selling Renfroe while his value is high, I’m good with that! I don’t think I can handle watching JBJ strike out or roll into another double play, he’s a rally killer. But as a 4th outfielder, without major playing time, he will hit under .100. There needs to be money coming to Boston, and Boston needs to sign a right handed bat like Kris Bryant. Can’t worry about the CBA this year, but we can get back under next year. Could be JBJ is gone by May like Hanley was, if he doesn’t have a major turn around.
jsay2948
I’ve always given Bloom the benefit of the doubt, but this is just wildly confusing. JBJ has always been a strikeout machine… and it only got worse last year… why would we want that AGAIN… for MORE money?
Kevin 23
Jesus, some of you people just have ZERO clue! Bloom sold high on Renfroe and bought low on Bradley while adding 2 prospects, one of which could have been a 1st rounder last if he didn’t get hurt his last year in college. At worst, the Red Sox added a GG CF that will allow Hernandez to play 2B, they also opened up RF and from what I am hearing are looking to re-sign Schwarber or there are rumblings they may sign Castellanos.
Polyglot
Finally, someone who gets it!
agrorolm
Maybe you are right. But I think the trade went great for both teams. Brewers really needed another power hitter, since they are in a win now mode, and got rid of Bradley’s contract for and saving some money for another needed player. Bradley’s contract will not hurt the Red Sox as much as it was hurting the Brewers and Bradley likes to play at Fenway.
30 Parks
JBJ can’t hit. Why are Sox fans so eager to ignore that crucial detail? Sheep. Last year too many Sox fans were pumping up Renfroe and it was good riddance Jackie, now it’s flipped. So many sheep, so many Sox fans. JBJ can’t hit. He has one Gold Glove – one. I don’t get the JBJ love, at all.
JoeBrady
30 Parks
JBJ can’t hit. Why are Sox fans so eager to ignore that crucial detail?
=========================================================
1-There are over 200 posts in here, and I am not sure one person has ignored his offense. That complaint makes no sense.
2-It is pure conjecture on your part that JBJ can no longer hit. In the 6 years prior to last season, he averaged a .769 OPS, and never had a season below .717.
There is no doubt that 2021 is worrisome, but I’d bet real money on a .650+.
augold5
I’d take that bet lol. We had pitchers who looked more comfortable at the plate. At this point in his career JBJ is nothing more than a 4th OF that can be used as a late inning defensive replacement
notstarboard
I mostly agree with you, but I disagree with the “allow Hernandez to play 2B” bit. In 2021 Hernandez was a mediocre 2B (-4 Total Zone, 0 DRS, -4 OAA) and an elite CF. His value is much higher if he stays in CF most of the time. It will be nice to be able to move him to 2B from time to time to give Arroyo (or whoever else starts there) some time off without sacrificing CF defense, but still.
If JBJ starts hitting again and Arroyo is ineffective or injured, it may well be that Hernandez at 2B is the best alignment at some point. I think the plan should very much be to keep Hernandez as the everyday CF and use Bradley as the fourth OF, mostly cycling between CF and RF.
I’m also really hoping for Seiya Suzuki instead of Schwarber or Castellanos. Adding more bat-first guys to a team with relatively poor defense just doesn’t seem smart, especially given how hard RF is to play at Fenway. I’d much rather have a solid free-agent RF out there and leave Verdugo in LF where he’s actually quite good.
Polyglot
I like the idea of getting Bradley back, and Bloom has been quietly (or not so quietly) adding every year to the Red Sox Farm and yet the crybaby negative nannies will rather us not, it boggles the mind the difference between this guy and Dombrowski who pillages every farm he sees. Bloom has taken this team from the 24th ranked farm to like the 6th best farm in baseball.
augold5
You like a guy who hit .160 last year? Idc how good your defense is, that is a detriment ti a team
notstarboard
This is a guy who hit .160 last year after posting a 94 OPS+ from 2013-2020 with the Red Sox. It’s certainly possible that he just forgot how to hit, but I think it’s a lot more likely that he regresses to the mean. This just seems more likely when you consider how streaky Bradley has always been at the plate, and that he had wrist surgery before the 2021 season. I could see that affecting him at the plate.
Getting back to his old stomping grounds where the fans love him could help him get his head right too.
Stevie E. B.
I love the moves the team has made. Flexibility, durability, defense and youth will make the Redsox better next year and position the team to not only have the ability to make trades or have room for upcoming prospects to bloom, but I love how Chaim thinks on multiple levels and gives the players reason to battle for playing time. It makes it fun for the players and gives the manager the ability to put the best roster together that day even if some players are struggling or are battling with an injury or a covid detention. Put me in coach, I’m ready to play!
qbass187
I don’t get this at all…
30 Parks
Seriously, what is Chaim Bloom doing?! JBJ is god damn awful. Brock Holt next? Complete garbage.
Cheeseman Forever
Great Hanukkah gift for this Brewers fan. JBJ is a top-flight defender but was lost at the plate. Hoping he finds his way in Fenway but his contract was a huge albatross for the Crew.
Meanwhile, Renfroe solves the Garcia departure in RF, adding some offense back to a lineup that badly needs it. Also provides some payroll flexibility that Stearns is prepared to use, whenever the stoppage ends.
sox4ever
Can only assume Bloom sees a flaw in Jackies season and can turn him into a .300 hitter next season
AL34
Does Bloom know what he is doing? You got back a .161 hitter with a bad contract for a guy who hit over 20 homeruns last year? You got two prospects ? Are you kidding me? You lost EROD and sign a guy who should be on a minor league contract Wacha ? You sign a guy who had TJ surgery and is going to miss half the year? Then you sign a guy who is 42 years old? These are the moves of a big market team. WOW ! Are you kidding me? The media was saying that they were going to be big spenders this year? I can see Baeggarts leaving this year too.
JoeBrady
Wow! You don’t like the trade. I’m shocked. What is this, the 20th consecutive trade you disapprove of?
AL34
You like it ? It is awful. You must be a kool-aid drinker that every move Bloom makes you love. Tell me something good about these moves. You got back a 161 hitter with a bad contract. Brewers fans are laughing their rear ends off how they fleeced Bloom. The prospects you got are nothing special. Come on. Wacha is awful, Paxton is hurt, and Hill is 42 years old. This is what you spend money on?
JoeBrady
I thought Wacha was a little high, but still better than paying guys like Gausman $22M per until age 36.
I’m fine with Paxton. It is like a $5 deal to pitch for 2-2.5 months, plus a 2-year $25M option, with a $5M buyout.
As i mentioned elsewhere, on it’s own, the trade looks odd, since we do not currently have a RF. But if the next move is to sign Suzuki, then I like the move.
Your turn.
What is this, the 20th consecutive trade you disapprove of?
AL34
I have my doubts about them picking up anybody big. They will sign released minor league young players and stock them down in the minor leagues. Bloom will sign the scraps of lower end free agents on the cheaper side contracts. I thought the media was wrong about them being big spenders this year. Not with Bloom at the controls and Henry controlling the purse strings.
JoeBrady
AL34
I have my doubts about them picking up anybody big.
==============================
But in regard to my specific question:
What is this, the 20th consecutive trade you disapprove of?
agrorolm
As a Cubs fan, I think this is a good trade for the Brewers. They needed some power hitter “insurance” in case Yelich doesn’t find his groove or in the meanwhile. Again, depending if the Cardinals add a starting pitcher, it will be a very close two teams race in the NL central division between Cardinals and Brewers. Cubs are out of contention (unless they add Correa or Story, another elite starter, and a closer which neither of the mentioned going to happen), Reds are following the Cubs steps dismantling their core, and the Pirates…well you all know. Again, Stearns showing why are so many teams interested in getting him.
Milwaukee-2208
Any scenario to get JBJ off the brewers i am happy with. Good day for Milwaukee here. He brought ZERO value to the offense last season. Defense doesnt matter to me when you strike out 4 times a game. sorry.
Renfroe can mash.
LFG
Goose
A lot of interesting theories here. If they retain Schwarber and put him in left it is a very good move.
Jackie is a mediocre hitter, AT BEST, but you can’t doubt he is in the discussion as best defensive CF in the league. Put Verdugo in RF and Schwarber in left, especially with half the games in Fenway is a better OF than last year, defensively and offensively.
Hamilton is probably going to be a decent utility player though a potential MI option. Binelas looks like a scratch ticket. He has shown a good bat but what I have read he isn’t even a good defender at 1B.
Without seeing the rest of their off season moves this look like an attempt to improve the defense, put Kiki into a more super utility role/2B and add depth to the farm that could help the big club in the short term.
Renfroe is the best player in the deal but some people are over reacting.
Those still lamenting the Mookie deal. He isn’t living up to the contract so far. The back end is going to be like Pujols/Stanton. It isn’t like the performance gap between he and Verdugo is big right now. Verdugo has a much lower ceiling but Betts is playing down and not up and he is only 28, so this has to be concerning.
baseball-reference.com/players/b/bettsmo01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/v/verdual01.shtml
JoeBrady
Those still lamenting the Mookie deal. He isn’t living up to the contract so far.
==================================
He was hurt last year, but he had a 4.2 bWAR, while Verdugo had a 2.2 bWAR.
In the real world, with players names being cover up, 99.99% of the people will take 2.0 bWAR, with the extra $30M to buy a Correa type player.
RickEO
In Bloom I trust
Bobby boy
I gutta tell ya, it’s a shocka
mcmillankmm
Why is everyone so outraged? It’s Hunter Renfroe
Bobby boy
Without knowing the financial constraints that Bloom must deal with, one cannot fault the man for looking at the big picture, and certainly beyond ’22. The Sox contended earlier than expected. This move is certainly a head scratcher, but it’s in keeping with acquiring controllable assets, stocking the farm, and keeping under the CBT. He must have reasoned that the potential better D would offset the run production loss and gain back prospects as well. Bloom was hired to run a lean operation all the while being able to compete. Long term compete. That may mean enhancing the future talent at the expense of the present one. Frustrating to a Sox fan. Bu tt then again, we’ve been spoiled by recent WS victories
DBH1969
except… there is no CBT right now
BuJoBi
Woah wait a minute.. what??? Why??
jd4252
Great trade Red Sox! Have to go back to ’72 trade we made with Yankees to see a deal that is on a par with this. Remember a 32 year old part time 1st baseman, Danny Cater for a 26 year old Sparky Lyle? Me ken brechen!
bobcavic
Is this a joke?
DBH1969
I see this as paying 2 million for a couple of prospects with decent upside.
As for JBJ, Red Sox Nation was torn about him when he was hitting .220. If he come in and pulls a .163, Bloom is going see the ugly side of Bean Town.
gbp4ever
More like $10 million Bradly Jr has a $8 million buyout in 2023 or $12 million contract.
JoeBrady
FWIW, Fever Pitch makes a really good, under-the-radar comment early on, about this being a Groopman trade. He probably knows more about these kids than anyone on the planet and might think they are vastly underrated.
That said, my predictions:
1-Duran is gone. He is too old to remain a minor leaguer, and JBJ is probably here for the next too years.
2-Pure speculation, but I am guessing that Bloom has eyes on Seiya Suzuki. And the only way to acquire Suzuki would be to move Renfroe.
That said, imho, Suzuki over Renfroe would be a great add. I loved adding Renfroe, but Suzuki’s OBP is huge, and he could be an ideal lead-off hitter. JBJ is surely a risk, but it is hard to conceive that anyone, without an injury, could completely stop hitting in one year.
My previous suggestion would have been to acquire Kiermaier, platoon him in CF with Hernandez, and having Hernandez start at 2B when JBJ was playing CF. That would be similar, but more risky with JBJ,
At this point, the trade looks fairly disjointed, but without knowing what else is going to happen, it is too early to judge this in isolation.
gbp4ever
I am laughing because Brewers fans acting like David Stearns made a great trade when he’s the guy who signed Bradley Jr to this horrible contract and now had to give away two of his top 20 prospects to get rid of the contract.
Cheeseman Forever
Obviously Stearns didn’t think it was a horrible contract when he signed JBJ. He upgraded the offense and shed about $10 million in payroll over the next three years (given JBJ’s options). Brewers don’t have Sox-size payroll and can’t afford costly mistakes.
Most Brewers fans (I assume you’re not one of them) agree that Stearns is one of the top execs in the game, and apparently Steve Cohen agrees since he keeps trying to hire him away.
gbp4ever
I am a Brewers fan but just won’t act like most Brewers fans and act like all he does is correct. I will give him praise but also call him out on his mistakes like the JBJ contract and not signing any decent bat last off-season
SharksFan91
Stearns is an idiot and always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room.
RunDMC
I usually hate the Red Sox, but I can’t hate a good return policy. MIL tore off the tags and spilt some wine on Jackie B. but BoSox took him back. Find a person that loves you the way the BoSox love some Jackie B.
99socalfrc
Renfroe will hit 40 homers in that park
SharksFan91
And strike out in another 150-160 AB’s on top of another ten errors in the OF!
martevious
This is a head scratcher, for sure. Renfroe had a solid season. Bradley, not so much.
msqboxer
The BoSox are counting on 2020 JBJ along with his top notch defense. I believe it’s a good deal for both teams as the BoSox get a known commodity and only down side would be if 2021 was not a hitting anomaly for JBJ. As far as the prospects involved, I read recently once you make it to AA, you have a 11% chance of playing in the MLB and a 4% chance of playing more than 5 years.
AL34
I hope this trade has to do with some sort of plan and not some sort of woke agenda. The Red Sox have lost two African American players over the last year Mookie Betts and JBJ.
JoeBrady
I’d be shocked. They had at least 18 Latinos with 40 IPs or 50 PAs. Most sports teams are completely indifferent to the players’ races.
AL34
I have my doubts they are going to do anything big. Bloom will pick up the scraps of what teams release or pick up free agents who are on the lower end of the spectrum.
AL34
Latino players are not African American and when you hang the Black Lives Flag Mural outside Fenway Park you do not want to be called hypocrites by the media for not having an African American player on your 25 man roster. I could be wrong but I don’t know
JoeBrady
You can’t do anything about that. African-Americans are about 7% of the league, and that feels quite high. I’m not sure the RS, NYY, the A’s, Cards, Reds, Giants or Astros have any starters. And there might be other teams with no African-American starters also.
Trey Buchet
We are so grateful for the Red Sox. The next step will involve making Kiké a Brewer.
amon25
They better not send Kike out!!!
dsett75
I find it hard to believe that Boston will go into the season with Verdugo, Bradley & Duran in the OF. They’ll try to sign Schwarber or Castellanos probably.
AL34
I have my doubts they are going to do anything big. Bloom will pick up the scraps of what teams release or pick up free agents who are on the lower end of the spectrum.
amon25
Spot on. This trade has to be a foreshadow to keeping Schwarber, if not this is worse than stupid.
Northeasternskier
Renfroe will return to the mean” . He got MoneyBalled when his value peaked. A good post-season can make you millions, or get you transferred to the midwest.
David Hamilton had a kick-ass AZFL. Bloom is loading up on shortstops. Wonder why? Bye bye X Man.
pdubs2907
As a Brewers fan, I love this trade. Stearns was able to shed JBJ, who really struggled offensively, with a clear replacement for Avi Garcia. From Boston’s perspective, at least they got two pretty good prospects who aren’t blue-chippers but they aren’t lotto tickets either. I love that Renfroe still has a year of arbitration left.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Bloom must have seen something in those prospects because it doesn’t make sense to get Bradley straight up for Renfroe. I do agree that Renfroe isn’t worth that much and Boston could benefit from this
JoeBrady
Fever Pitch suggested that these were Groopman acquisitions.
amon25
Lifelong Red Sox fan and ABSOLUTLEY HATE this trade–with a passion. I was hot when I saw it. It makes no sense for a team that went to the ALCS. Loved JBJ for many years here–mainly for his D, of course but cringed watching him try to hit. Felt bad for him many times that he just couldn’t figure it out.
Renfroe more than handled Fenway’s RF. And during May and June he carried the offense. I see a lot of people here forgetting that. I just flat liked him. Much easier to see him gaining consistency with the bat than JBJ.
This is just a plainly stupid trade on Boston’s part. The offense went backwards adding JBJ…and defense went backwards because it was better overall with Kike in CF and Renfroe in RF. So JBJ is an OVERALL upgrade over Kike? He’s not. The minor upgrade on D does not offset the putrid offense. Also, 2B is easier to fix than CF.
They better go get a big bat now. A BIG bat.. No. Make that two: Schwarber and another. But they won’t because…hey, the offense was great last year, right,?
Wait until JBJ is clogging up the 8-spot, striking out, hitting .172., leaving runners on base. We don’t have to wait., we KNOW what that looks like. Its sad and hard to watch.
yankista
.. just another junk to the Fenway !!!
ballnglove
What a joke, how can a bum like jbj have any value at all? A fast guy who bats .160 with no power? Those guys are a dime a dozen in AA Ball. Good riddance, ha ha Boston!
JoeBrady
Among true CFs, from 2016-2020, JBJ was 7th in HRs. He has some contact issues, and consistency issues, but power is not one of his issues.
Poster formerly known as . . .
My hot take on this is that taking on JBJ’s salary was the price for acquiring the two prospects. They’re not the throw-ins in this deal — he is.
Harness
@Joe Brady
Like old times, eh Joe?
I’m coming out of post-retirement to let you know I really enjoy how you continue to destroyed others with logic & wit. Nice to see it here.
I don’t have a good feeling on the potential longevity of this lock out, and how it’ll affect the game moving forward. I do think Tony Clark should be replaced, as the players are going too far.
One area of disagreement: regarding Betts.
I’m not the fan of WAR as you appear to be. I said Verdigo would hit for a higher BA and he has.- at a 70th of the cost. Betts won’t live up to his contract.
Verdigo won’t have to.
And over time, you’ll see Verdigo out hit and out play Betts in the playoffs.
With rare exception, Betts is becoming a playoff choke. I was among the few who advocated that deal (Price $$$ aside).
On Bloom, I believe he’ll be the best thing to happen to management since Theo. Short term deals will allow for player extension to critical components. Stocking the farm allows for future trade chips.
As I know you’ll agree, posters love to judge trades at face value. GM’s can’t afford to.
It’s not about what player has already done recently, especially with covid. It’s about envisioning what they can do at low cost.
Boston was too erratic defensively last season. Bradley should normalize this immensely.
He made it clear in his FA status that he wanted 5 years. He over-valued his own worth and has been humbled. Bloom and co. see a rebound, and so do I.
Happiest of holidays to you. Really good to see your posts.
JoeBrady
Thank you for the kind remarks, and Happy Holidays!
IRT Clark, he is way over his head. MLB is hiring law firm partners, from Ivy League schools, that specialize in labor. The PA is hiring a college dropout. My fear is that Clark won’t know what to ask for, and won’t know when he has a good deal.
IRT Betts, and this goes for almost every FA, all the value in a player is in his first 6+ years. A good GM might be able to extend that by locking in the player with a reasonable extension. But once you are a FA, you are almost always overpaid.
That’s the nature of any auction. Sometimes you have to, because you lack a certain type of player, but you will usually regret the signing.
On the JBJ trade, I don’t know if it will work out, but I love the strategy. JBJ got too expensive, so he let him go.. Renfroe was very underrated, so he picked him up. One year later, we have JBJ and no Renfroe, just like we had before.. The only difference is that we now have one decent prospect, one good prospect, and are one year less in JBJ’s contract. It is an amazing flip.
And I am guessing a .650-.700 OPS with his usual high-level defense.
Anyway, welcome back from retirement. But, paraphrasing Tom Hanks, ‘there is no retiring from baseball’. God willing, I will be doing this when I am 95, and will have grandchildren telling me the WAR is ‘so 2021’.
JoeBrady
Red Sox Stats
@redsoxstats
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4h
McAdam reports that more than a few people in the game “believe that the Red Sox are intent on landing Japanese outfielder Seiya Suzuki” and that the Yankees, Blue Jays and Red Sox have been the most aggressive clubs.
bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/12/04/mak
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I wish it were true that Bloom is intent on acquiring Suzuki, but do you really think he will engage in a bidding war and pay more than what he feels Suzuki is worth? I’ll believe it when I see it. He certainly has lost out on a whole lotta other players that he supposedly had interest in, it’s gotten downright embarrassing.
kingbum
Buy low, sell high that is what Bloom did. He figures Bradley won’t be as bad, I agree. He also is thinking Renfroe had a career year, he will regress and he should get what he can for him. Somebody in the organization targeted these two prospects. Red Sox sign Schwarber this becomes an even better move. If one of the prospects pans out at a MLB level and they get Schwarber then this is a win. Bloom does not believe Renfroe will have a 816 OPS next season.
Harness
@J. Brady:
Tom Hanks is right.
And that goes for actors addicted to spot lights as well;(
To take it one step further w/Clark, if the lockout goes into mid-March, with no resolution in sight, the players will have the untidy task of asking for Clark to step down…on his own.
I am seeing ST starting in April, with the season cut short by about a month.
How does this affect the luxury tax protocol if salaries are pro-rated?
And then there’s organizational approach.
For example, if Bloom opts for relief pitching over another bat this winter, then Dalbec has about 2+ months to show he’ll be able to replicate Renfroe’s production. The trade deadline thus comes along and the bat is added then, a month ahead of time.
This puts Boston in a similar situation as last year, (with Sale’s return and the Schwarber inking).
You make strong points regarding the auction of FA. Which is why Macha cost 2 mil more than he’s probably worth. You either overpay for short-term deals, or live with regression/injuries on longer ones.
The Ray signing by the Mariners could be a steal, even with 2 down years. I think Boston missed the boat there.
Now I’m gonna throw you a curve:
As you know, Henry’s occupation calls for the utmost in fragile PR.
Now consider: Two players were involved with PR issues last year:
1) Renfroe with his statement on MLB glossing over Covid mandates, which brought on a negative response to his allegation by the Redsox brass.
2) EROD and the pointing at the wrist(watch). Cora spits the bit with “NO NO. We don’t do that here! On national TV of course. I could see this year how Cora’s adopted daddy approach with EROD was wearing thin.
Both players are gone. And EROD states “It’s time to move on”. Is all this pure coincidence???
In Renfroe’s case, his untimely statement and the looming lockout might have necessitated Bloom’s decision. Had he waited, perhaps we get an upgrade in prospects.
Something to think on while enjoying a Christmas bird.
JoeBrady
They won’t ask Clark to step down. They will just bypass him on the vote, and next year, he will leave to other ventures. Which is fair. I think he in over his head, but seems like a nice guy, and I liked him as a player.
I think ST is an issue for the players. They want to get paid for 162 games. The owners would skip April games in a heartbeat. You can’t give away early-April mid-week game tickets.
I don’t like any of the FA SPs, except maybe for a gamble on Syndergaard. Ray had a career ERA+ of 103 before this year and now he gets paid like a l/t AS. Gausman had a career ERA+ of 100 before last year, with a notable injury history. I prefer Ray, since he does appear to be the injury risk that Gausman is.
Interesting points on Renfroe & ERod. I had forgotten about the COVID remarks, but I believe Renfroe. I absolutely cringed when ERod made his gesture. IMHO, that’s what turned around the series for Houston. But that said, Cora’s criticism should’ve stayed inside the clubhouse. As much as I thought ERod was wrong, I’d have told Correa to frack himself, at least until the series was over.
Harness
Renfroe was on a nice tear until he made that statement. Then he caved some.
I believe he believed he was being honest, but there could have been a communication issue as well.
I don’t recall the Redsox trading off a player coming off a 30 dinger/near 100 rbi season (keep in mind this is primarily 5-month productivity).2 months later. Not with his arm. I’d have to go back to Hawk Harrelson and his loose mouth.
And look how the trade transpired.
It came literally minutes before the lock out. There were no rumors – no leaks. And due to the lock down, no press opinions. Only from irate fans. It was beautifully timed.
EROD never received any long term proposal from Boston, according to him. I find that interesting.
Only the QO.
Now consider Bloom’s mo.
Short-term deals for SP. 14 mil 2-years with KIki.
Now he takes on 21.5 mil for a #9 hitter when the team is nearing the luxury tax threshold.
It doesn’t smell right. Especially if they don’t sign a bat and stay below the luxury tax.
Henry is involved in some serious acquisitions. I think he is making a clear statement to incumbent players – and those considering playing for him.
Maybe it’s all coming out of left field in my own head.
Just like paying Price 16 mil a year to play for LA…after he verbally goes after Eck on the plane.
I realize they had limited suitors in that memorable Bettts deal. But eating half a contract like that didn’t smell right either. And that $$$ could have been put to good use, especially the way Bloom operates.
If they don’t sign a bat, look for the team to resign José Iglesias for a song. Then go after two bp arms, possibly via trade. I wouldn’t mind seeing Robles return, especially if Barnes can’t return to form.
On a side note, after reading so many of your posts over the years, I’ve come to the conclusion that you’d make one hell of a good chess player!
JoeBrady
I’m not going to pretend to figure out Bloom’s vision. Theo did a great job, but I mostly understood what and why he was doing something. I think Bloom is thinking years ahead. That said, here is what I think Bloom’s vision is.
On Renfroe, I think he is cashing out his bet. He was a great pickup, had a great year, and this is a classic buy low, sell high scenario. As under-valued as he was when we got him, I think he is probably overvalued now. I loved the assists, but that cam with a lot of errors.
IRT JBJ, this is another case of buying low. From 2015-2020, 6 years, JBJ averaged a 3.0 bWAR, with a 4.2/650 PAs. He had a ridiculously bad 2021, but I don’t think players, without an injury, go south that fast, particularly at age 31. My guess is that Bloom sees a guy in decline, maybe not worth his full salary, but with a pretty decent chance of getting a 2.0 WAR. If that’s all he does, then the salary is fine, and we got two decent+ prospects for nothing.
But the key to that is replacing Renfroe. I said all along that I liked Suzuki a lot, but as long as Renfroe was there, he had no spot. Now he does.
And I’d love to sign Iggy cheap. In his one month here, he showed me that he still had a magician’s glove.
IRT chess, that was a bit of a thing for me. I joined the chess club in HS. I grew up in The Bronx, but the furthest south I had ever been to was Yankee Stadium. The chess teacher suggested we attend a tournament on the west side of Manhattan,. I didn’t mind the subways at all, but wandering around Manhattan was kind of heady for me. I won my first game when the guy in charge of the club sided with me on a disputed call, and had a draw in my second game.against an experienced older player.
Harness
”On Renfroe, I think he is cashing out his bet”.
You have no idea how this hits home.
Bradley’s in no more steep decline than Renfroe was in his 2020 campain. Same for J.D. Martinez. I recall George Scott having a similar year in 1968.
He was eventually dealt to Milwaukee, where he excelled. Boston got him back and he did nothing.
If memory serves, we lost Cecil Cooper in the deal.
He went on to have a solid career, incl. 5 gold gloves.
Then again, Alan Craig was through at 30+. Two teams I wouldn’t trade with: St Louis & Milwaukee. They assess players better than their peers.
If Bloom is indeed selling high, then the return is poor if you consider the fact Renfroe’s production now must be repalced. Others share the same thought of buy low – sell high.
But why wasn’t Renfore shopped around for a better package?
If he had been, rumors would have likely surfaced.
I still say it doesn’t smell right.
Bloom’s eye to the future makes him no different than any other G.M., etc.
I agree Suzuki is the true off-season target. Here’s a link about him.
bosoxinjection.com/2021/12/06/red-sox-pitcher-exci…
I knew you were a chess player. Usually can spot ’em. Your chess story and mine are very similiar. How does a NY bred become a RedSox fan/Yankee hater?
If you wish more privacy:
4-harness@live.com
JoeBrady
I agree that Milwaukee does a good job of assessing players.
Which leads me to one of my key tenets for trades: I want to know why a team is trading the player. When Detroit traded Verlander, it made sense. They stunk, Verlander was trending down, and getting expensive. So I am not suspicious.
When Cleveland traded Clevinger, they were in the middle of a pennant race, playing .600. Even in a small market, no one does that. Ever. Combine that with the 4.4 BB9 and it is incredibly suspicious. Same with Snell.
Which brings us back to Mil. I understand their motivation. Even if you expect some positive reversion, which I do, Milwaukee is desperate to get rid of JBJ, so I would be less inclined to think they are getting over on us.
IRT the secrecy, two things occur to me. The first is that Bloom strikes me as a guy that says nothing. If something gets leaked, it is with intent and designed for misdirection.
The second thing is that this could’ve been put together at the last minute. The CF market is incredibly thin, which is why a 33 year old Marte gets a 4-year contract. I wouldn’t want the NYY or Philly to start sniffing around. He fits both teams perfectly, if you believe in reversion.
Spare Tire Dixon
Do the Brewers have much of a farm system if they wanted to improve the offense via trade? Oakland seems like a good trade partner.
bjupton100
I’m curious if you guys think people who say “you’re mom” while crap talking a player are against women.