With both Jeff McNeil and Dominic Smith coming off disappointing 2021 seasons, “there is some expectation within the industry the Mets will trade” at least one of the duo after the lockout, Mike Puma of The New York Post writes. Back in late November, MetsMerized’s Michael Mayer tweeted that “multiple teams” had been in touch with the Mets about a McNeil trade.
Since the Mets bolstered their everyday lineup by signing Starling Marte, Mark Canha, and Eduardo Escobar, there has been plenty of speculation about what the club would do with a suddenly-crowded mix of position players. Between the three new faces and Robinson Cano returning from suspension, McNeil, Smith, and J.D. Davis suddenly looked to be short on regular playing time. Even if the National League does adopt the DH in the next collective bargaining agreement, there might be a greater chance that the free-spending Mets fill that extra lineup spot with another established star, Puma notes.
This is far from the first time that either McNeil or Smith have figured into trade rumors. Smith drew plenty of trade buzz following his big performance (over 197 plate appearances) in 2019, as the Mets’ glut of first base and outfield talent seemed to leave Smith without a position. Injuries and the NL’s use of the DH in 2020 opened up more space for Smith in 2020, however, and he responded with even bigger numbers.
Smith hit a cumulative .299/.366/.571 with 21 home runs in 396 PA in 2019-20, but that production dropped sharply last year, with only a .244/.304/.363 slash line and 11 homers over 493 PA. While Smith benefited from a .368 BABIP in 2020, that number dropped to .298 in 2021, and Smith’s isolated power also dropped from .299 to only .119. Less hard contact in general could be the reason so few of Smith’s flyballs translated to homers or doubles, and rival teams also increased their usages of defensive shifts against the left-handed hitter. After posting big numbers against the shift in 2019-20, Smith only had a .265 wOBA against shifts last season, with teams deploying the shift 60.1% of the time (as per Statcast).
McNeil looked like a future lineup staple over his first three seasons in Queens, highlighted by an All-Star appearance in 2019. However, the super-utilityman also had a lot less batted-ball luck in 2021, with a .280 BABIP following a .342 BABIP from 2018-20. While McNeil continued to be one of the harder players in the league to strike out, he didn’t make much hard contact even in his three good years, which finally caught up to him last season. Injuries may have also been a factor, as McNeil missed over a month of the season due to a strained hamstring.
Beyond just the on-the-field struggles, McNeil also had a highly-publicized altercation with Francisco Lindor on May 7, resulting in Lindor reportedly grabbing McNeil by the throat before teammates pulled the two apart. The incident created some belief that the Mets were simply ready to part ways with McNeil, though naturally the team isn’t going to just give him away for nothing on the trade market.
Both Smith and McNeil are controlled through the 2024 season, with Smith in his second year of salary arbitration (as a Super Two player) and McNeil in his first. Smith is projected to earn $4MM in 2022 and McNeil $2.8MM, and thus both players would be bargains if they could regain their pre-2021 form. Between this controlability and their recent success, Smith and McNeil both still have a solid amount of trade value, even if suitors would have some justifiable question marks in the wake of their respective down years. That said, an argument could be made that either McNeil or Smith might benefit from a change of scenery away from the drama that has swirled around the Mets in recent years.
McNeil is heading into his age-30 season and is over three years older than Smith, but he might have more overall value due to his defensive versatility. McNeil has seen quite a bit of time as a second baseman, third baseman, and corner outfielder over his four years in New York, whereas Smith hasn’t looked good defensively in the outfield and has been only passable at first base. Pete Alonso has Smith blocked at first base, of course, so the DH slot might be Smith’s best shot at getting regular playing time if he does stay with the Mets. In terms of trade interest, teams might not be too willing to part with a premium return for a first base-only player, especially one coming off a lackluster season at the plate.
It stands to reason that moving one of McNeil, Smith, or Davis would help the Mets address other roster needs, but an argument can also be made that the team could or should simply retain that entire trio for the sake of depth. Since injuries and unforeseen issues like Cano’s suspension left the Mets so shorthanded in 2021, figuring out ways to raise the talent floor should be a priority for new GM Billy Eppler. Also, new manager Buck Showalter is no stranger to figuring out ways to juggle playing time and maximize the skills of every player on his roster.
davidk1979
Fine with moving Dom but moving McNeil would be a terrible mistake.
Bill M
Depends on what you can get back for him. Mets still need starting & bullpen depth.
deweybelongsinthehall
Don’t see the return being great for any of them so the idea to me is can they be used to help re-stock a farm system that needs replenishing. Sort of like what Bloom did at the deadline in 20. No one spectacular but Pivetta alone looks like a steal.
Bill M
Re-stocking the farm system would be a great return for them
Brooklynmetsfan 2
What do you mean? As’s will trade bassitt or manaea. What do you think there getting for them? A mid level prospect and a major keague cost controlled player like dom or mcneil. Thats it!
Sunday Lasagna
Bassitt and Manea are only 1 year rentals, but the A’s will get better than McNeil or Smith and a mid level prospect. McNeill or Smith will net an ok bullpen option or a 5th/6th starter at best. McNeill had his career year 3 years ago. His all star appearance will be remembered about as well as Joel Youngblood’s and Smith is not an outfielder and as a 1B option doesn’t have the offensive skill to be a major league starter.
Samuel
@ WampumWalloper;
If the A’s trade Bassitt and / or Manea (or any other player) they’ll be looking to get back a number of young players with at least 4-5 years of control and consequently low salaries.
McNeil and Smith are attractive to teams that have specific needs for someone like them, and if not contending this year, at least coming out of a rebuild.
csalko
Well their best shot at a good young starter I believe is a combo of McNeil, their ability to take on a big, bad contract and a mid level prospect. Like, purely as an example, if the Mets took all of Donaldsons contract from the Twins (basically 60mil) and included McNeil and a prospect, that could net them a young promising 2-3 starter.
Sunday Lasagna
@Samuel, agreed and they will get it whether it is now or at the deadline in July. The Mets just don’t have the depth to make a trade for a 2-3 starter or an impact bat.
stymeedone
Agree@Samuel
Brooklyn and Wampum both seem to undervalued pitchers. There is not a single team that won’t be checking in on the A’s available arms, and they will be moved for the highest price.
deweybelongsinthehall
McNeil should return two mid-level or perhaps three very young A ball decent prospects. Smith at his age, a AAA decent prospect or perhaps for either a reliever that the team hopes rebounds, etc. You never know. I also keep remembering Daniel Nava who cost Boston. $1 and earned his 13 championship ring.
MetsFan22
The a’s are not getting better than Mcniel for either
gbs42
MF22 – Merry Christmas to you and your eternally overly optimistic homerism.
chipperniner7
Hey MetsFan22 what happened last year? Didn’t u say the Mets would win it all and the Braves would choke? Lol
Buckner
I think McNeil is not as bad as he was in 2021, and not as good as he was in 2019 either. I also believe the incident in the tunnel (was it a rat, or a raccoon?) sealed his fate here in NYC. This is Lindor’s team now after a $300 million investment.
It doesn’t look good for the scratch golfer (McNeil). The Mets can swallow Cano playing 2nd for a year and then need to find room for Vientos, Baty (both 3rd) and possibly Ronny Mauricio (likely going to 2nd or OF).
Dom Smith, nice guy, teammates seem to like him. But doesn’t seem to belong in the OF. And doesn’t fit the hitters (power) profile of your typical 1B.
I think both can be dealt to an organization that can find a home for both of them. They both have team-friendly contracts, not expensive.
The Mets should be grateful to get two A-ball pitchers (or one solid AA pitcher) players who might be a year or two away, in return for them both.
Met fans (like all fans) tend to overvalue their homegrown talent. McNeil and Smith are nice pieces. They have some value in a trade.
stevecohenMVP
McNeil is garbage and not a good team player. I’m fine with him gone
gbs42
Calling another person garbage. Classy, steve.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Steve,
Yeah you are right Squirrel booing the fans and giving them a thumbs down really sucked. Oh, wait, that was the 300 million dollar flop Lindor.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
FYI, McNeil has a higher career OPS than Lindor.
gbs42
Interesting. And one is a top-tier defensive shortstop while the other is serviceable at multiple spots.
McNeil is the better bang for the buck, but that’s not a very good comparison considering FA $ vs arbitration salaries.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Lindor’s defense is why he was worth a 200 million not 300 million deal. He is a better hitter than Simmons or Ahmed but below Correa and Seager. My argument is not that McNeil is better, but he is a good and highly versatile asset at his significantly lesser salary and he is no worse a teammate than Lindor.
stevecohenMVP
I’d rather have a one legged lindor than McNeil. Stop being Manny.
Cosmo2
143, 138, 130 OPS+ totals for McNeil his first three seasons, what’s not to like? One off season and people give up on him.
deweybelongsinthehall
McNeil had a breakout year when the ball was juiced. That’s why his return won’t be much. A receiving team is buying on hope and speculation. While he’s serviceable at multiple positions, he played them because he was the best option the Mets then had. Instead of that being a positive, it really highlights what defensive liabilities Davis and Smith really are.
VonPurpleHayes
I agree. McNeil is too good to give up on yet. Smith, I feel, is a guy who needs to start every day to develop rhythm. I yhink he’d be better suited elsewhere, but his trade value isn’t all that high coming off of last year. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the Mets keep both of them, but if they go for another big signing (Bryant), I expect them to be traded to replenish the farm.
deweybelongsinthehall
Lindor had a lousy first season and was worth the signing only to the Mets. The same way the Padres overpaid when they signed Hosmer. It gave the team credibility for subsequent signings. Lindor may become another Stanton type contract as compared to Harper but do you think Scherzer signs with NY if they didn’t already sign Lindor and show the world payroll limitations was not going to be an issue in 22?
Sunday Lasagna
@Dewey The Nats did that with Jayson Werth too. But it took the Nats a decade to finally win the WS and the Padres have disappointed thus far. It’s a strategy, not sure if it’s a good one, but a strategy is better than no strategy…..and Dewey should be in the hall, every team should have an on base machine power bat with a bazooka for an arm in RF.
RaeRae
McNeil is an a__h___.. He needs to stop being a baby or else another teammate is going to beat him to a pulp in 2022. Yes. He has talent but he is toxic. McNeil and Smith for Manaea and Laureano or Manaea and Chapman could really work., McNeil can and, will hit in 2022 but he is toxic as he has an incredibly self absorbed, and selfish attitude. Chapman is a great defensive 3B man who will hit 20 homers, and hit around 248. Manaea is a pretty decent lefty starter who the Mets need for their 2022 rotation. If the Mets go with Laureano instead of Chapman in a trade they get a guy who fields well, throws very well, and can really run. He’ll only hit 245-to-250 from the right side but he gives the Mets plenty of options in the OF.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
First I heard of McNeil being a bad clubhouse guy. Still, the guy makes contact, hustles and is versatile. I’ll still take him in Philly.
Hey, the Mets once traded us another self-absorbed coconut (Lenny Dykstra) and we went to a WS in ’93 with him leading the way. In Philly, if you can play and help our team win, we’ll put up with your ego.
deweybelongsinthehall
winning is not easy WW. They did what they had to do to get the fans back. Between not spending on the best talent (outside if retaining deGrom) and not producing a consistent winner, the Mets with new ownership spent to be talked about positively, to sell merchandise and to put fans again in the stadium. Worth is beloved in WA so yess it was worth it. I made the team credible to others.
deweybelongsinthehall
Again I say this. He had one great season and it was with a juiced ball. If the team believes in him and thinks the clubhouse can be united, the Mets should keep him because you’re getting back either a reliever looking to rebound or minor league non-blue chippers (with a little hope).
Cosmo2
He had three very good seasons and I’m judging by OPS+ which accounts for the juiced ball so….
Appalachian_Outlaw
Reportedly McNeil refused to comply with the Mets shifting tactics, flat out telling Lindor, “Shut up, I got this” when Lindor encouraged him to move. Lindor then grabbed the guy by his throat one day, which was a terrible move if true.
Hard to imagine the duo continuing to coexist on the same team.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Sort of reminds me of when Miguel Olivo bit off piece of Alex Guerrero’s ear. They could have filed assault and battery charges against Lindor or maybe even cut him for cause.
dsett75
Kinda reminds me of when Avisail Garcia slept with Prince Fielder’s wife. I don’t know if an altercation happened though. That had to be an awkward situation for the Tigers. They were both traded soon after, lol.
Jake1972
It reminds me of Sandberg wife sleeping with half of the Cubs team and Martinez and Palmerio were traded…
Ya talk about awkward moments!
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
In 2022, Lindor will be more disappointing than McNeil. Met fans won’t easily forgive Lindor for joining Baez in dissing the fans. New York is a very tough place to play, maybe the toughest place, when the fans aren’t your friends.
jim stem
@appalachian
Having followed the Mets daily for a few decades, why is the first hearing of this altercation? Can you provide a link to an article, please?
gbs42
jim – Nothing here about the shifting, just the choke:
sports.yahoo.com/mets-francisco-lindor-grabbed-jef…
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
I’m a Phillies fan, and I would take both of those players in a (Ahem!), New York Minute. Have loved McNeil from the time he came up. he’s just a solid all around baseball player who does many things well. Dom Smith? He can play LF for me. Hey, it’s not as though the Phillies got any GG performances there last year. Plus, i think Dom can hit LH pitching.
Bummer is, the Mets probably won’t trade either one, much less both, to the Phillies. If they do move them as a package, they sure would look in at Wrigley Field.
NYMetsFanatic
I agree. You *know* the moment we trade McNeil, he becomes a Met-killer. Remember that sick, hollow feeling when we traded Justin Turner, and he gave it back to us in spades? Yeah…
powerboat9
We need. another bat and a # 3 starter . Followed by the bullpen. Those guys all could be involved in a trade. Merry Buckmas to all!
Dorothy_Mantooth
McNeil to Boston to play 2nd base for a couple of years makes sense, until either Yorke is ready or Xander moves off of short stop. Time for Boston to trade Jeter Downs as Yorke is their future at the keystone.
johnrealtime
Theyd be selling low on Downs. IMO they are better off keeping him and hoping he gets some value back
McNeil makes sense on basically any team in the league
miltpappas
Only if the Mets take Franchy Cordero.
deweybelongsinthehall
Why, Franchy may never play again for Boston but is not costing much.
deweybelongsinthehall
Dorothy, not a bad deal that seems realistic (to me) but I’d rather have Iglasias back if he’s willing to return cheep. He just seemed happy to be back with the organization he started with and was refreshing to see him involved in the playoffs when he couldn’t play.
JoeBrady
but I’d rather have Iglasias back if he’s willing to return cheep.
============================================
It was a joy to watch the magician in action. But the only way he’s on the RS is if Arroyo is our starting 2B. If KIK is our 2B, via a RF acquisition, then Arroyo becomes the UIF.
JoeBrady
If McNeil plays 2nd, that means Kiki plays CF, which means JBJ plays right, and I don’t think JBJ’s bat plays well as a rightfielder.
GarryHarris
JBJ is a CF. One of the best ever. Not a corner OF.
dmjn53
Jackie Bradley has 14 WAR in 9 years. He’s been a passable starter/very good 4th outfielder for his career.
In no way, shape, or form is he “one of the best ever” CF.
deweybelongsinthehall
Shove WAR up any of your orifices you’d like. Anyone who has seen him patrol CF knows his glove is Paul Blairesque. Everyone also knows he can’t consistently hit. That said, his bat occasional streakiness paid dividends in the 18 playoffs. The team is getting another bat once the strike ends and either that new bat or Verdugo will be in right. My thinking is to get Iglasias and have Arroyo as the utility guy with Plawecki, a third catcher and a lefty bat as the other reserves.
PiratesFan1981
@dmjn53 I’d have to agree with you on this. Even an aging Andrew McCutchen can play as equal CF as Bradley can. I don’t mean to knock on JBJ, but there are other guys who make a better argument for one of the best CF guys in the game. And I apologize to compare McCutchen with JBJ. No pun intended
deweybelongsinthehall
Defensively, you’re nuts. AM is 35:and was moved from CF years ago. Anyone who watches JBJ play knows no one today is definitively better although some are arguably on the same level.
Bruin1012
JBJ is going to be a fourth outfielder brought in for defensive purposes and spot starts most likely. My guess is that Bloom signs either Suzuki or Schwarber. Suzuki is the better fit especially defensively he would slot right into right field and keep Verdugo in left and Kike in center relegating JBJ to 4th outfielder which is probably best for him anyway. I don’t think the Red Sox have as much problem at 2nd as it is being made out to be Arroyo was pretty good there and I’m wondering if they might put Duran back at 2nd, his natural position. Duran hasn’t exactly been good defensively in center even though he is super fast.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I could definitely see Chaim Bloom taking a chance on McNeil- he fits the bill playing multiple positions.
DonOsbourne
Maybe Toronto would be interested in McNeil as a low cost way to flesh out their infield and balance the line-up until the younger infielders are ready. Cheaper and more versatile than Kyle Seager.
metzfan
metzfan, Mark, Smith has been more than passable at first base. I’m in agreement with you that he needs to go but I don’t think you should downplay his ability at first he’s a much better first baseman than Pete
Larry David's Joe Pepitone Jersey
The numbers don’t really bear that out. I think Smith does *look* better at first base & Alonso certainly has had his awkward moments, but (albeit in far more innings) he’s been better in both OAA and DRS. Granted, it’s not necessarily a fair comparison given how much Dom has had to play out of position and focus learning LF.
deweybelongsinthehall
Passable is something a winning team does when their corner infielder either hits like Wade Boggs (BA and OBP) or with power like Ryan Howard. Smith is neither.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
If the NL adopts the DH, I’d play Smith at 1B and DH Alonso. Smith is a bundle of energy and a joy to be around. You don’t find guys like him growing on trees. Every team can use a Dom Smith. Should the Mets decide to trade him, there will be no shortage of takers. If you’re a Mets fan, pray they don’t trade him just to trade him and get some stiff in return.
Sinhalo75
Makes sense, could also throw Davis into that mix.
Bill M
I know Davis’s name has been thrown around a lot but he’s the one I’d keep around as a bench piece. Even more so if there’s a DH in the NL.
phenomenalajs
I think the best way for JD to stay is if he becomes a two-way player and the rules based on previous seasons are relaxed to allow it. He was a closer in college and did have a few relief appearances with the Astros.
Sinhalo75
Usually he’s a bat only guy when he’s healthy and doesn’t have anywhere near the versatility as Smith/McNeil. Davis’ bat, if it gets any time, certainly won’t make or break the season by a long shot.
deweybelongsinthehall
Davis only had 175 ABs last year and ignore 2019 due to the juiced ball. The more I look at him, the more I realize he has no real trade value.
Sinhalo75
He has value but it’s all in his bat. If anything HR totals have been pretty consistent ’19-’21. Even with the league cracking down on pitchers using stuff this year’s leader had 48 which isn’t far from Alonso’s 53 in ’19 and Voit’s 21 in ’20 prorated falls above 50.
chace alexander
If it weren’t for Cano’s contract, he’d be the one on the way out.
Dorothy_Mantooth
I can’t believe Cano’s contract runs through 2023. What a lopsided trade for Seattle! Even with the $20M Seattle sent to the Mets in the deal, Cano is costing NY $20M/yr against the CBT and is an immovable contract. Diaz has had mixed results (at best) in NY and is only controlled through 2022. NY had to give up both Kellenic & Dunn in that deal too. Seattle is now primed to enter a 4-6 year window of contention while NY is relegated to trying to buy a championship team. This might be DiPoto’s best trade of all time; it’s a gift that keeps on giving!
JoeBrady
NY is relegated to trying to buy a championship team.
=====================================
Not to get too pedantic, but from my view, NY is trying to buy a WC spot. They need at least one more SP to even move to ‘trying to buy 1st place’.
deweybelongsinthehall
Joe, the Mets had to reset things to attract other players and buy the back pages from the Yankees. The fact that people are talking about them is already a win. As to Cano, he will go down in history. He changed GM’d thinking to the point of future treads, the team getting the bloated contract receives not gives up the hot young prospect. The Mets bought rediculusly high on Diaz but taking on all but $20m of Cano’s contract in hindsight makes the deal go down as another Ryan-Fregosi type regardless of how Kelenic turns out.
MetsFan22
Braves don’t even have freeman rn. Mets are a better team
BumpOnAPickle
I’m confused as to how Seattle got the better of the deal. Kelenic had what, a stretch of 8 good games? Dunn is a #4 starter, unless he develops a better arsenal.
Diaz has been the Mets closer with good results after his first year in Queens. Cano had a great offensive season when he wasn’t suspended.
Neither team has won the WS, so unless you think that youth equates to a championship, the Ms dumped salary for two guys who *might* turn out good.
Basehitupthemiddle
Diaz has been an awful closer for the Mets.
Ronk325
I’m confused as to how anyone can still look at that trade and think the Mariners didn’t absolutely fleece the Mets.
Kelenic is 22 years old, a year removed from being a consensus top 3 prospect, and showed his capabilities late in the season.
Edlose Diaz is a middle of the pact closer at best and Cano is a washed up juicer. That “great offensive season” you’re taking about is a direct result of PEDs.
Even if you think Kelenic won’t pan out, which is foolish, his trade value was worth way more than what the Mets got from the Mariners
AlienBob
How much controllable prospect capital do you think Kelenic would bring in a trade right now?
Cosmo2
Kelenic has his whole career ahead of him; Mets saddled with Cano’s contract. Seattle won.
Samuel
Lost in all this historical revisionism is that the Mariners took a couple of bad contracts off the Mets hands. Not that they were as much. but at the time the Mets were stuck with those guys.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Pickle,
I don’t see anything to get confused about. Seattle won that trade by a country mile even if Kelenic is never better than a fourth outfielder.
Imagine if the Mariners had Diaz for four years at $30 million, could they give him away? And yet they did and got some prospects who still have high potential although no certain results.
This would be like the Cubs trading Wilson Contreras and Jason Heyward in return for Baty. I would hope that the Mets have learned something and would say no.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
. . . Four years at $30 million per year.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I would not see Diaz has been awful if he had been a closer from the Mets minor league ranks, just middle of the road overall, some very good intervals and some bad ones.
But you add Cano’s salary to Diaz and if it is all Diaz’ salary and you even gave away some good prospects to take Seattle’s salary dump and, wow, that was a bad deal. But in all fairness, that was the old ownership and front office.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Let’s put it this way, Kelenic could get Sonny Gray straight up, with the Reds paying 80% of Gray’s salary, and people would say the Mariners were fleeced paying so much for a short rental. Kelenic is not good enough to get Castillo straight up. I would rate Baty slightly ahead of Kelenic but neither is a certain outcome.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Ronk,
I agree with 90% of what you said, I am just not sure Kelenic will be quite that great. But the Mariners absolutely won that trade the Mets absolutely were foolish and if Kelenic is anything above league average it will just be gravy for Seattle.
JoeBrady
BumpOnAPickle6 hours ago
I’m confused as to how Seattle got the better of the deal.
==================================
333,000,000 people in this country, and you might be the only one defending that trade. It might go down as one of the worst of all time. Diaz has a career bWAR with the Mets of 2.0. Cano with a 1.7. $53M for a total of 3.7 WAR.
VonPurpleHayes
Diaz has not been awful ny any means. Inconsistent certainly. At times elite, but at time prome to the homerun ball. Maybe it’s because I’m a Phillies fan and have been exposed to historically bad bullpens of late, but I cannot get over how much hate Diaz gets.
Ronk325
Manny, Kelenic is only 22 and was coming off a year where he didn’t play in 2020. His OPS was also .854 in the final month showing that he adjusted to big league pitching as season went on. A young player struggling early in his career is not indicative of how his career will go. Just look at Vladdy Jr.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Clearly a huge win for the Mariners. Only the NY Press could spin that trade any other way. But I’m okay with Diaz, so far. yeah, he’s had a few bumps in the road, but so does every closer. Even Hader and Chapman give up homers at the most inopportune times.
jim stem
Diaz has his moments of failures, but they are magnified in NY. The guy takes the ball every time the phone rings snd never gets flustered. He blows a game one day and goes right back out there the next day.
I think many of his failures can be pinned to pitch selection and improper usage. He’d go out there 5 days in a row if that’s what was needed. I can respect that.
Let me ask this: who closes the last 3 years if not Diaz? He fills the role. No, he’s not perfect, but who has been since Rivera?
If some kid from the minors would come up, save 32 of 40 chances with 100 k’s in 60 innings, people would be screaming hall of fame and sign him to a 7 year, untouchable contract.
Yes, he gets beat with the long ball from time to time. But honestly, if the Mets scored more runs and blew fewer leads prior to the 9th, he wouldn’t be used as often.
jim stem
…or look at Jake Bauers, Ike Davis, and a plethora of others who ‘can’t miss’, have a great 100 at bats and disappear from baseball within 2 years.
There is a huge difference between dominating minor league pitchers and becoming an All Star against major league pitching. Major League pitchers are a LOT better than minor leaguers for a reason.
deeroq
Technically $33m, not $53m as they only made 37% of their contracts in 2020 and Seattle paid 5m & 3.75m of Cano’s contract in 19-20. .
Over that same period of time Mets paid Betances & Familia $31.5m for a WAR of +0.1 so Diaz/Cano starting to look not so bad. lol
MetsFan22
Dunn is a nobody and it doesn’t look like Mets fans will be crying over kelenic. The Mariners saving money is the only thing that won them the trade. If cano doesn’t suck next year idek if I wouldn’t do the trade lol.
AlienBob
@MetsFan
And now three years later the Mets are looking for a pitcher exactly like 25 year old Justin Dunn while sitting on Cano’s contract. The M’s in the meantime have rebuilt their entire roster with young, controllable players with upside. Dipoto has traded his way into 90 wins while the Mets are again coming off a 77 win season while being over the Luxury tax at $235M. Enjoy Cano for two more years. He has closed the Mets competitive window for 7-10 years.
JoeBrady
MetsFan2210 hours ago
it doesn’t look like Mets fans will be crying over kelenic.
============================
This is a loser’s lament. It was a horrible trade. To try to defend it is embarrassing.
Larry David's Joe Pepitone Jersey
I think there are valid arguments either way for McNeil. I’d argue that the question of what kind of player he’ll be long-term is still very unclear: I wouldn’t overreact to one poor season, but I’m also not sure if he’ll ever repeat what he did in 2019. At bare minimum, he could be a useful utility guy. And again, there’s the question of what you do with Mauricio and Vientos. Regardless, I wouldn’t sell low on him.
Smith is a lot more clear-cut for me. He’s not a good fit for this roster, and they should trade him even if they have to sell low. I think he would benefit from a role where he doesn’t have to play the outfield and gets consistent ABs.
mookiesboy
No. You never sell low unless you have money problems – and the Mets don’t
Poster formerly known as . . .
Money isn’t the only consideration. Sometimes it’s worth selling low to move a player who’s taking up a roster spot.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The only reason to sell low is if Steve is going to coddle Lindor. Buck needs to go in their and bust some heads metaphorically. There is no “I” in team. Lindor needs to know that if he grabs another teammate by the throat he will be out of MLB for good. And McNeil also needs to know that it is a different ship now that Buck and not Steve is the one who calls the shots.
jim stem
@kirk
Good assessments. I think all three are moved before the season. I think Vientos is big bait in any package, especially a team with a low budget. Brett Baty is the real future 3b in NY, but Vientos could probably start for a majority of teams.
I think Mauricio begins to shift defensively this year. They know he can play short, but his value to this team beyond 2022 is at 2b, 3b or even the outfield. I don’t think his defense plays at SS at the major league level and he isn’t pushing Lindor off short in the next 5 years. His biggest value is tradebait now or 2b in 2023.
resident
McNeil in Colorado orSan Fran, where the temptation to pull the ball and hit home runs, might make for an interesting fit.
keysox
McNeil to White Sox for Kimblow.
Samuel
@ Kirk Nieuwenhuis For MVP;
McNeil is controlled for 4 more years till age 33. That’s as long-term as he’ll be to any team. Moreover, his profile is such that there’s a slim chance he’ll spend the next 4 years with one team. He’s the kind of player that teams like the Rays, Brewers, Dodgers, Guardians, and others use in a utility role literally on a game by game basis. At some point those teams get a solid player or two at 2B, 3B, or the corner OF and he’ll become expendable.
This is not to knock McNeil. I’m a big fan of his.
@ resident;
McNeil’s hitting strength is as a line drive hitter that can spray the ball to all fields as well as work walks. He had an awful 2021 when Cohen intervened saying he wanted high OPS, and subsequently had Chili Davis fired as hitting coach. The end result was poor / awful offensive years from McNeil, Smith, Confroto and a few others as they got away from what they do best and tried to be pull-hitting power hitters.
deadspy3 2
Would do McNeil for Manea
Dorothy_Mantooth
I think Oakland will be looking for a younger, more controllable piece than a 30 year old McNeil if they trade Manea.
gbs42
The A’s are going to want more and/or cheaper talent for Manea.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I like McNeil and of course I would make that trade as the Mets. But the A’s would want someone like Baty and the Mets will not make that move. There will be other teams like the Dodgers who have more prospect depth.
Lux, Cartaya, Busch, Luis Rodriguez and Hoese, in return for Olson and Manea. Mets cannot offer a package like that.
jim stem
McNeil, Davis and a young pitcher for Manaea, Chapman and Laureano?
CCCTL
With that package you could get Mike Trout! /S
MetsFan22
I’d be pissed if we got a 4 for McNeil
Cosmo2
Why would the A’s do that? McNeil is arb eligible next year so they’re not saving much.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I think you keep McNeil and if he has a good Spring – if there is a Spring Training in Spring – he is the starting 2B. But I actually think Mets will keep them all. There is bound to be an injury – it is the Mets – sometime during season.
McCann C
Alonzo 1B
Squirrel 2B
Escobar 3B
Lindor SS
CF Marte
LF Canha
RF Nimmo
Backup corner outfielder and 1B Smith
Cano and Davis compete for DH spot and other is pinch-hitter.
Mets just need to sign an innings-eater starter and a small addition to bullpen.
DonOsbourne
They almost have to play Cano to start the season right? They need to find what he has left. If he hits maybe, MAYBE they have a chance to eat only some of that contract and move him. If he falls flat, they have to consider just biting the bullet and writing a check.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I think they can platoon Cano and Davis at DH or go with whoever has the better Spring, there is zero chance of trading Cano. Zero. I know that I have seen hypos for Heyward, Price, Bauer, etc., but there are two Cano outcomes keep him or cut him. If his bat plays, you keep him. But not on the field.
Cosmo2
Nah, they don’t have to do anything with Cano but put him on the bench or release him.
Say Hey Now Kid
What about Davis?
Cosmo2
Yup. This. Manny’s lineup plan is what makes sense to me.
sampsonite168
Trading McNeil when his value has never been lower doesn’t seem like a very good idea.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Keeping him when they have little use for him is a worse one.
sampsonite168
They don’t have 4 infielders better than Jeff McNeil even after coming off his worst season.
Cosmo2
They have tons of use for McNeil. He should be starting at either 2nd or 3rd and backing up the corner OF spots. He’s much better than Escobar or Cano.
jim stem
@cosmo
McNeil looked horrible at 3b, worse than Davis. He looked like he was much more comfortable at 2b.
If no one is traded, where do you get 300 at bats for Davis, Smith, Cano and McNeil?
I think the Mets spike Cabo’s gatoraide so he tests positive and out for the remainder of his contract. McNeil, Guillorme or Escobar takes 2b duties after that. I think having Cano is the only reason to keep McNeil. Insurance. But if Cano stays clean, he’s the dh. That benches two of Davis, Smith and McNeil daily.
I think a Bryant signing makes all these guys tradebait for any kind of pitching.
I believe we sign Duffy (June return), Trevor Rosenthal, a lefty to replace Loup like Tony Watson and another one or 2 of the better remaining pitchers.
We only have so many spots on a 40 man roster and I think Cohen will stock that with the 40 best players he can, not like in the past with worn out, retreads. Those guys will fill AAA, but won’t be on the 40.
Cosmo2
Yea, McNeil didn’t look too good at third so he may not be ideal there, but come on, anyone is better than Davis. McNeil is not good there, Davis just doesn’t belong on the field. His defensive metrics are horrific, McNeil not so bad on metrics, but I agree he’s a bad third baseman.
cadagan
These guys aren’t headliners to facilitate trades. McNeil by the time mlb begins’ it will be 3 years passed since his career year. The value will be very low in trade value ny would get back. Makes little sense to me. Especially if both players still offer some positional versatility as well to keep them around. This isn’t the 60s-80s, when other teams trade high hoping for miracle bounce backs. If ny trades. Months later they will be looking for the exact same player to fill a hole somewhere else.
I get that the Mets may be tired of musical chair act of waiting on which player will repeat a prior performance.
I dislike the Mets. But trading for little return for sake of change isn’t an answer here.
CLPRODJ
Down years happen. McNeil is better than he looked last year.
wrigley
I’d love to see a deal with White Sox. Kimbrel for McNeil and Nimmo. Would be helpful for both teams.
stevecohenMVP
Lol Nimmo is not getting traded for a past his prime closer. This made me chuckle. Please learn baseball better
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Steve is right on this one.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I am a Cubs fan and I can tell you why would Mets do that? They value Nimmo and Kimbrel gets big money. If I am White Sox, I would take Squirrel or a team top 20 prospect straight up for Kimbrel if Mets are paying all of Kimbrel’s salary. But even that is unlikely to happen. Now if Mets were clever enough to package Cano in a deal, they would dump Nimmo in a heartbeat, but no one will take Cano.
JoeBrady
A team trading for Kimbrel to be a $16M setup guy? Wasn’t that already tried?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
And they could possibly sign Jansen to a one year deal for the same money if they want to go that route. Which I doubt.
Cosmo2
Whaaat? No way the Mets allow themselves to get ripped off like that. Nimmo for Kimbrel straight up would be laughably stupid of them, Nimmo has way more value.
to4
I think they’ll end up signing Correa to play 3B and cover the left side with Lindor and guys like Escobar, Cano and McNeil could rotate between 2B/DH. McNeil could also play a corner OF every now and then. So maybe they trade Davis and Smith to Cleveland for a SP. Cleveland could chose to play Smith in LF, Reyes RF and Davis as the main DH
jim stem
@to4
Bryant is more logical than expecting McNeil to repeat.
stevecohenMVP
McNeil isn’t that good. They figured him out and he has a terrible attitude. I’m done with him and so should every Met fan. Cursing every at bat. Deuce deuce
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I would be happy to acquire Squirrel for Cubs Dodgers or Mariners. He is not the 0.300 hitter people thought but his versatility is still an asset. Buck will see that and he is not going to let Lindor dictate personnel.
stevecohenMVP
Lindor didn’t dictate anything. Jeff being a goon and a hard player to work with dictated it. Don’t pretend that wasn’t Jeff’s fault.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Perhaps you misread which player had his hands on the other’s throat?
stevecohenMVP
Yes but if McNeil told me to shut up and refuse defensive tactics I would have slapped him. So potato potato
JoeBrady
And if I were the manager, I’d have benched both of you. You don’t get to dictate where McNeil plays. You can talk to him about it, and if he doesn’t respond, you can complain to the manager.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Agree with Brady. McNeil made a mistake and then Lindor made an even bigger one. Time for Buck to try to change the environment before they reshuffle the personnel.
MetsFan22
“He is not the .300 hitter people thought” could u please read me the lotto numbers for next the upcoming one?
JoeBrady
IMO, McNeil is the last guy you’d want to trade.
1-His value is low right now.
2-Cano is 39 years old. In the past 20 years, there have been only two 39 year old 2Bs with an fWAR > 0.5 (Kent & Biggio). And the same two were the only ones with > 300 PAs.
3-Last I looked, they had no one really qualified as a UIF, nor anyone qualified as a #4 OF.
to4
I think the Mets 2022 Opening Day Line Up is likely to be the following:
1.Nimmo LF
2.Marte CF
3.Lindor SS
4.Alonso 1B
5.McNeil RF
6.Correa 3B
7.Canó DH
8.McCann C
9.Escobar 2B
Nido C, Canha OF.
Bill M
Highly unlikely that Canha is on the bench on opening day
stymeedone
That’s the part you found unlikely? Not Correa playing 3B?
Say Hey Now Kid
Or the fact that he bats 6th?
jvent
Mets aren’t getting Correa he wants what Lindor got, not happening, if they did get another bat it would be Bryant.
Cosmo2
Doubt they get Correa. Canha starts, certainly over Cano.
jabronieramone
McNeil could help on the Angels. They have no SS. Could move Fletcher there with McNeil taking 3B.
jabronieramone
2B
seamaholic 2
Seems easier to just sign or trade for a SS and keep Fletcher where he excels.
stymeedone
Easier? Maybe if you want Simmons back. Really not aware of a team with a SS to trade at the moment. Texas might move IKF. But I expect him to be their starting 3B.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Phillies will gladly trade Didi and the $14 million he’s owed in 2022. Bummer part is that many no longer consider Didi a good SS. Still, he’s a battler, was the Phillies most consistent hitter in 2020, and is solid in the clubhouse. He’s like Sara Lee, “Nobody doesn’t like Didi!”.
As an aside, I think Didi’s sub-par 2021 was mostly due to his painful elbow. If that’s cleared up, I expect the bat to return. Defense? Passable, but a long way from being Gold Glove worthy.
LongTimeFan1
Anyone who thinks that Smith is only “passable” at first base, doesn’t know what he/she is talking about. And that’s specifically the author of this MLB Trade Rumors article, Mark Polishuk. Though Smith doesn’t have the speed or quickness for outfield – needs to shed pounds and improve his running mechanics..i.e., is passable outfielder only – he’s smooth as silk at first base, a natural, very, very aesthetic to watch.
Smith needs his weight to better align with his 6’0″ frame. Should he shed double digit pounds and keep it off during the season, and improve bat speed and running mechanics, he could be a very good trade acquisition over the longer term. If the foundation is sound, performance will follow.
mookiesboy
Agreed 100%.
Oakland is a great trade partner here with Mets improving A’s $$ problems in the deal
CCCTL
He’s in arbitration. A’s won’t touch him.
mookiesboy
Nonsense. A’s have lots of arbitration players Dom is arby2 – take an arby3 player from A’s, add in some cash and a prospect or two. There’s alway a way
CCCTL
He’s in arbitration, so he both is getting more expensive already and doesn’t fit their timeline for return to contention. They won’t re-sign or QO him, so there’s zero reason to take him on and lose that trade value.
BuhnerBuzzCut
Correa as a 3B doesn’t make sense to me. His market value is $300 million as a top SS. If you moved him off short you would have to pay him a 3B value. Bryant would be a comparable option to put at 3B with a much cheaper and shorter contract.
SalaryCapMyth
Yes, very true. To much of his value is tied to his glove. Moving Correa to third would be almost as bad as the Phillies moving Realmuto to first.
mookiesboy
You nailed it. Buck will be good for McNeil
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I think Buck may get both McNeil and Lindor back on path. I think the Mets are set up so they have a great chance if the arms and shoulders of Jacob and Max stay glued on all season. But they could use one more inning-eater starter so that they are still in the mix say if Max is healthy all year but Jacob is not.
brokenxearth
Dom would fit in real nice on the Red Sox
SalaryCapMyth
Wouldn’t mind the Braves taking a shot at McNeil assuming the Mets don’t have an NL East “tax”. I know he had an incident with Lindor and he does look like the one in the wrong but then the Mets looked pretty toxic last season anyway. Is he really part of the problem? What I really have a difficult time doing is writing off three successful seasons as luck. I mean THREE seasons in a row? That sounds like too much luck to be believable.
GarryHarris
McNeil and Smith are too good to sit on a bench.
jim stem
Here are my opinions as a long time Mets fan:
You have to move players when their value is highest. In regard to the 3 mentioned, right now might be the best time to move all of them. They are all replaceable at this point, and the Mets know you NEVER have enough pitching.
1. McNeil. Trade for 2 young pitching prospects who already have had TJS.
The league has caught up to McNeil and he has shown that he can’t or won’t adapt to the shift. Everything he hits is driven into the deep infielder and he has shown zero willingness to drive the ball the other way for singles and doubles.
Like Scott Kingery, his value has dropped due to his willingness and ability to play multiple positions. While he is adequate wherever he takes the field, the ‘utility’ label has stunted his development at one specific position. One more down season or fewer at bats will plummet this return value.
I think McNeil goes to a team like the Marlins who have young minor league pitching they can move. McNeil can return to hitting 40 doubles in that park, move back to RF and eventually 2b when Chisholm goes back to SS.
2. Smith.
Dom has serious sleep apnea issues and it really shows if you watch him day in and day out. In the shortened season, he was awake, alert and focused. He showed what he is capable of over a shorter period.
Last year, he was way off again. You could just see it when he was at the plate. Sluggish, droopy eyes, groggy, a millisecond behind on his pitch recognition, and just seemed to be guessing wrong all the time. I know the look well because I also have slept apnea. There are just days that you can’t function.
I think better awareness about his sleep apnea returns him to being a dangerous 5-hole hitter and he could be in gold glove talk at 1b. But if he can’t get consistent sleep and be well rested and alert, he will be out of baseball in 2 or 3 years.
Dom needs to be 1b or dh for a team that maybe has less attention on him and support for his condition. I don’t see him getting 300 at bats this year with the Mets, so trade him while teams still remember what he did prior to last year.
The Reds should be the #1 match. They need outfielders and Votto will eventually slow down. Smith to the Reds for Castillo, Gray, Mahle or Antone should be an easy hook up for both teams. One for one, done.
3. JD Davis
This kid can flat out hit lefties AND righties. If he gets every day reps at 3b, he’ll be ok. 500 at bats will overshadow his defense. He can also slide to 1b, left field or full time DH. He just needs to have a team focus on one position for him.
Orioles and Mets need to get together on a deal right here. I think the Mets can deal Davis, Vientos, cash and a young pitcher and get Means and Mancini in return. Vientos starts at 3b, Davis is the back up there, moves to regular 1b/dh duties. Baty is the real future 3b prospect, so package Vientos right now.
Means slots right into the #3 position for the Mets and Mancini takes Dom Smith’s role as 4th outfielder and starting 1b with Pete going full time dh and back up 1b to give Mancini some days at dh.
Marte cf
Nimmo lf
Alonso dh
Mancini 1b
Escobar 3b
Canha rf
Cano 2b
Lindor SS
McCann c
deGrom 1
Scherzer 2
Castillo 3
Means 4
Megill 5a
Peterson 5b
Carrasco 5c
(Sign Danny Duffy who is back in June) 5d
Bullpen
Add one or 2 arms from the above deals or just sign 3 or 4 free agents to 2 year deals.
On a side note, if the Mets could get together with the Royals, it could be a one and done blockbuster.
Davis, Smith, McNeil, Vientos and cash to the Royals for Whit Merrifield and two of the current bullpen arms.
Merrifield goes right to 2b or center field and hits second.
Marte cf
Merrifield 2b
Alonso 1b
Escobar 3b
Canha rf
Nimmo lf
Lindor ss
Cano dh
McCann c
Bench
Baty eventual starting 3b as soon as Cano is benched or busted.
Guillorme reserve IF
Khalil Lee 4th OF
Nido second catcher
Bullpen adds two Royals arms plus another 1 or 2 via free agency.
Make it so.
Noel1982
Dom smith isn’t getting them a top pitcher ! Be happy if he gets them a player to be named later
MLB Top 100 Commenter
If there is a National League DH, Smith would net a team’s top 25-30 prospect. But only after other DH guys like Soler are locked up in free agency.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Davis is not very good at defense – anywhere. Baty is not playing in 2022, he is part of the plan for future years.
JoeBrady
Baty’s been a little weak, imo. He’s young enough, but still had a 45/22 K/W in 151 AA ABs, with 5 HRs. The offense is ‘okay’, but his fielding % at 3B is .914. If he doesn’t stick at 3rd, he won’t have much value.
jim stem
@manny
Just wondering, if you actually watch Mets games or formulate opinions on just what you read?
Dom is a natural 1b who is Smith as silk, makes incredible scoops on low throws, has more range than Pete and is electric defensively when he gets to play first. Dom at 1b probably saves 20 errors on throws alone.
The problem in this scenario is that Pete becomes the full time dh, Cano plays against all righties and McNeil stews on the bench waiting to pinch hit and replace Cano late in games.
Davis becomes nothing more than a pinch hitter, reducing his value even more. McNeil’s value plummets as the 24th man and neither will get enough at bats to have any success. Gotta trade McNeil and Davis and get what you can.
As far as none of them being worth anything now, Cohen can always add cash to the deal to get it done. Mauricio, Vientos, Ginn could all sweeten the deal, depending upon what pitching is available from which teams. Some teams will ask for less player value along with cash to unload a contract like the Reds, Royals, Orioles, Diamondbacks, Cleveland…
Honestly, if the Orioles are willing to listen on Mullins, then Means and Mancini can be obviously be moved.
Cosmo2
You have a very good grasp on the team’s situation right now, but why start Cano over McNeil? Why not just make Cano the 24th man and solve the problem you pose? That’s the best lineup for success.
whyhayzee
The Mets seem awful good at developing hitters with no defensive skills. If MLB goes all NFL, they could dominate. Otherwise, not so much.
Metsin777
The Mets would be foolish to trade McNeil. At worse hes on par with Chris Taylor. Hes cheap and a great hitter. He never got in a rythmn last year due to getting hurt once he got hot with a hamstring injury. He should really be batting third in the lineup. My lineup would be:
Marte CF
Lindor SS
McNeil 2nd
Alonso 1st
Escobar 3rd
Nimmo RF
JD Davis DH
McCann C
Cahna LF
padam
Cano? Smith?
Cosmo2
Smith DHs against some righties, Cano rides the pine.
FarhanFan22
At best McNeil is on par with Taylor.
Jeff is a 2B/LF who can play 3B in a pinch.
CT3 can play SS/CF/3B/2B. They’re not similar players
jdgoat
Interesting. Both could be nice but low options for the Blue Jays considering their need for a LH bat. I don’t know exactly what the Mets would be looking for in return but they could certainly matchup good together if they are looking to receive prospects back for them.
OilCanLloyd
Agree.
padam
Mets line up well with Oakland. Mets could use a 3B for a year or two and a SP. Oakland needs good, cheap and controlled. I think a Chapman, Manea or Basset for Davis, Smith and McNeil (toss is a mid-tier prospect) and I think it solves issues for both teams.
CCCTL
(Arb eligible, poor range and would play in the Coliseum, doesn’t fit expected return to contention) x3
=/= good/cheap/controlled
A’s hang up.
Noel1982
That package sucks as well! The latter two aren’t worth jack sheet
JoeBrady
Davis, Smith and McNeil
==================
The first question I’d ask, if I were the As GM, would be ‘if these are good players, then why did you sign Canha and Escobar to replace them?’.
The second issue is that they are kind of fringe regulars. Davis best season was a 1.2 WAR in 2019. McNeil with a decent 2.9 over the past tow years (which begs the question of why the Mets don’t want him). Dom Smith with a career 0.6 WAR,
And lastly, and one that you cannot overcome, is that the As are rebuilding. Why would they want 3 guys that will be gone by the time they finish their rebuild, as well as cost money.
Cosmo2
I certainly hope those two were not signed to replace anyone. The Mets need depth. Smith, Davis and especially McNeil are valuable pieces but I get trading one of them. I’ll be very disappointed if Escobar supplants McNeil.
JoeBrady
I didn’t get including JD in that grouping either. Same as with McNeil, you need quality backups. Ignoring Lindor’s assault on McNeil, he and Davis fit the NYMs perfectly. One is a high quality UIF/#4 OF, and the other is a very solid backup 1B/3B. Instead of getting rid of them, I’d have McNeil practicing CF, and have JD invest time at 1B.
Samuel
@ JoeBrady;
Please…….
McNeil cannot play CF for any length of time – maybe in an emergency until the game is over. Then they can bring in a guy from the minors to start the next game. Furthermore – as I noted below twice – McNeil is not a power hitter and that’s what the owner wants. He pretty much does what Nimmo does on O, although not as well. A team doesn’t need 2 LH lead-off hitters that work counts and get on base…..which is where McNeil should hit. They move him lower in the order and ask him to be a run producer. That’s not his game.
Davis cannot play any position on D. He can’t catch the ball, he can’t throw the ball. He and Nick Castellanos are the two worst defensive players in MLB today – every ball hit to them is not just an adventure, it has the potential to change the momentum of a game. The 1B handles the ball more than any position player other than the Pitcher and Catcher – Davis is not the guy a team wants handing the ball that often. The Astros value D and left Davis go for next to nothing because they didn’t have a roster spot for a DH. And he was traded to the NL because no AL team was going to use him as a DH as they knew about his fielding issues.
JoeBrady
McNeil cannot play CF for any length of time – maybe in an emergency until the game is over. Then they can bring in a guy from the minors to start the next game. Furthermore – as I noted below twice – McNeil is not a power hitter and that’s what the owner wants.
================================
On McNeil, sure. I envision him as a late inning sub, or to give Marte some occasional rest. He’d play mostly LF/RF, which he’s done before. His main value would be for when Cano goes down.
IRT the power comment, I agree he is not a power hitter, but you mentioned OPS. I thought that was puzzling, since the three Mets can hit, just not pure power hitters.
Samuel
@ JoeBrady;
Last try……
Look at your own comments about how they hit previous to 2021.
Joe, this is not computer baseball.
JoeBrady
Just for fun, how about you predict what OPS McNeil, Smith and Davis will have in 2022. Or just go by what Steamer predicts. LMK what the difference is between those three Mets and the three guys they just acquired,
The defense and alignment will improve, but the offense wil be largely the same.
stymeedone
How about Davis, Smith and McNeil for Andujar, Frasier, and Sanchez. That’s the equivalent of Mike Trout!
DarkSide830
Jeff McNeil would be a real popular guy in Philly…
mitchladd
I think you hold on to McNeil due to his versatility and instead package Smith and Davis and go to OAK, MIA and CIN and see what the best arm you can get in a two for one is.
padam
CIN doesn’t have spots for them.
CCCTL
A’s don’t WANT Smith/Davis.
Say it with me:
“They want prospects”
LebronHatesAsians
Yankees and Mets definitely have the pieces to make a good trade for both sides but it will never happen so I guess I’m just saying this to hear myself talk
Inside Out
Any team trading for either will quickly be disappointed and realize why Mets wanted to trade them. Neither one should bring more than a couple middling prospects.
RonHuntForever
GMs don’t think like fans. You think guys are down because they have a bad year, but GMs know what they need, and someone like McNeil might fit very well into someone’s need on their roster. If so, then they might give more for a trade. Same is true for Dom, but maybe less so. JD is the best prospect for several teams… JD can be a DH full-time, and play sub-average in several positions… if he hits .290 with extra base hits, they’ll find ways to use him. I can’t believe the Mets will ever find enough ABs for him.
rct
imo, it makes absolutely no sense to trade either of them right now. McNeil is coming off–by far–his worst season as a pro. Smith had been improving every season until taking a major step back last year. Both are at their lowest point value-wise.
You don’t sell low like this. You hold them and hope they rebuild value. You’d get very little for in return for McNeil and even less for Smith.
jim stem
@rct
I truly believe all the young hitters struggled without Chili Davis’ support. They were all improving, all learning to adjust at the major league level all were flourishing. Alonso, Conforto, McNeil, Davis, Nimmo, Smith…all went backwards under the two new data analysis ‘hitting coaches’. Lindor dropped way off, McCann went backwards, Pillar fell off the second half…it was a mess. I can’t believe we haven’t heard anything about this aspect from the players.
Cosmo2
I’m a Chili fan as well. They never should have let him go.
StairBob
After watching the Mets for a couple of years now, I noticed one major change in McNeil in 2021. Before 2021, he hit to all fields (same problem with Michael Conforto FYI) but he apparently thought that he became a slugging pull hitter in 2021. He was a double machine before 2021, but those doubles turned into ground balls when he went to pulling.
As for Dom Smith, I feel like his ship has sailed. JD Davis just seems to be a player without a home. He is a decent replacement, but a step down typically in defense.
Then again, the Mets forgot to offer me the GM position, so maybe they have someone there who knows better than me.
Cosmo2
McNeil seems to go through these phases; he’s a great contact, all fields hitter who suffers when he goes through stretches where he gets homer happy.
Samuel
@ StairBob;
I’ll write it again, and this also applies to Joe Brady (above) that wrote:
— “The first question I’d ask, if I were the As GM, would be ‘if these are good players, then why did you sign Canha and Escobar to replace them?’. —
Owner Cohen fired his hitting coach earlier in the season, and went onto Twitter stating that the Mets had to improve their OPS.
McNeil, Smith, and Conforto are not power hitters. Sometimes they connect and hit HR’s, but they’re primarily line drive hitters. It’s no coincidence that all had terrible seasons. (And yes, until this season McNeil wasn’t trying to pull everything.)
Canha and Escobar had higher OPS’s than Conforto and McNeil. (Marte had a high OPS.) The owner is driving the direction of the team, and he wants power hitters. That’s fine. Buck likes 3 run HR’s – a reason he was hired.
McNeil, Smith, and Conforto are not the sort of players the Mets want. That doesn’t mean that can’t be productive and even impact players for teams that play a different style of baseball.
Cosmo2
Who says they signed Escobar to replace anyone but Villar? And Canha replaces Conforto. That would be my answer if I were GM. McNeil, Smith and Davis are viable pieces, signing two other guys was for depth not to make good players obsolete.
Samuel
@ Cosmo2;
I’m doing a player comparison here in response to a comment I didn’t write (no GM is going to ask that question, they all know the direction the Mets are going in).
This offseason nonsense of making up a lineup and talking about a depth chart not only will be obsolete by May 15 of the coming season, but it in no way reflects how ML baseball is played today.
Many position players on teams play multiple positions. When injuries or bad seasons happen to those getting playing time, guys are often moved around – not to mention that seldom do position players start and finish 162 games a season….let alone at one position.
Teams have a mix of around 13 pitchers and 13 position players on their rosters on any given day of the season. Many managers use most of the 13 position players in a game, and using 6-8 pitchers is not uncommon. Today most teams go through over 30 pitchers and 30 position players on their roster each year. The opening season roster is not really important. The one that counts is the roster the day after the trading deadline – and even that will be massaged some until the end of each teams season.
Now – the Mets are going to try to be a power hitting team, as well as a power pitching team. The owner wants it that way. He’s the one hiring the GM, and manger, and until he changes his outlook (for whatever reason) that’s what the Mets will be doing.
I love watching McNeil play. He simply doesn’t fit with what the Mets want to do, and he’s obviously uncomfortable trying to change his game at age 30. He can be effective playing for another team.
Cosmo2
I don’t really think that Cohen has such a narrow mindset. McNeil the all fields contact hitter should have a place on this team- starting at either 2nd or third. Either Cano or Escobar should be on the bench with Davis and possibly Smith as DH options.
Samuel
@ Cosmo2;
Did you watch the Mets this year?
Did Cohen have the hitting coach fired? Did he go on Twitter and say the players needed to raise their OPS? Did McNeil (and Smith and Conforto) subsequently have bad years offensively? Did the 3 position players Cohen brought in have high OPS’s?
Sure, it might be nice to have McNeil around. But he probably wouldn’t get much more than 300 PA’s. They can get a decent bullpen pitcher of a few prospects for him. It would be best for him and best for the Mets.
Cosmo2
I think you’re misinterpreting and at the same time, taking too literally Cohen’s words. McNeil at his best has a good OPS so those words don’t really apply to him anyway. Hitting coaches get fired, I don’t see that as an indictment of McNeil. I still see him as a great fit on this team, preferably starting at second base.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Agree. McNeil starts at 2B unless the Mets make a trade to upgrade or banish him. Marte and Canha replace Conforto. Escobar replaces Baez and Villar. If McNeil is gone it is a personality thing not the performance of the present competition. Davis cannot play defense Cano is in no condition to play defense regularly Escobar is a bit behind McNeil in terms of defense and I see Escobar starting at 3B.
JoeBrady
Canha and Escobar had higher OPS’s than Conforto and McNeil.
===============================
Last year they did. Over the previous three years OPS+
Player A 139
Player B. 132
Player C 129
Player D 130
Player E 107
Player F 115
The NYMs had a pretty poor defensive alignment with their players, but they didn’t lack for hitting.
Samuel
@ JoeBrady;
Would you get your head out of the spreadsheet and look at what variables were in play to get the results in 2021 compared to previous years?
The owner wanted high OPS’s from his players. How many times do I have to write this? HE FIRED HIS HITTING COACH EARLY IN THE SEASON. HE WENT ON TWITTER SAYING HE WANTS HIGH OPS’S.
Subsequently McNeil, Smith and Conforto had terrible years trying to be hitters they aren’t.
When you work for someone that’s paying you and they tell you to do your job a different way and you can’t, do they say: “OK. that’s fine. You tried.”?
Will it change in 2022? The owner just hired a manager that has believed in 3 run HR’s everywhere he’s ever managed.
JoeBrady
Samuel2 mins ago
The owner wanted high OPS’s from his players.
============================================
Twice you mentioned higher OPS. Three times you mentioned more power. The two terms aren’t interchangeable.
Further, the three guys they signed don’t have as high an ISO as McNeil, Smith and Davis. I’m going by memory but will check it quick (career only).
Player A 160
Player B. 189
Player C 175
Player D 162
Player E 180
Player F 187
The power of the guys they are acquiring is only very slightly higher than the guys that are mentioned in this article.
Cosmo2
Samuel, I just think you are drawing conclusions that aren’t there. McNeil is a high OPS player except for one year. Smith is simply a question mark. You’re drawing too many stretched conclusions from Cohen’s words and the firing of a hitting instructor, something that happens all the time.
Noel1982
A package of dom smith and jd davis might be able to get Mets back some cash considerations! Maybe! It’s definitely not gonna land then a starting pitcher that Mets fans toss around on Twitter
Noel1982
McNeil won’t land then a star pitcher either! Teams are gonna try to buy low on him ! Mets should keep him and take the cash considerations for the other two guys
MLB Top 100 Commenter
McNeil might net them a team’s top 10 prospect in a trade. If they are going to coddle Lindor, it could happen. But hopefully Buck will be a man and knock some order and discipline into the clubhouse.
Cosmo2
Smith and Davis don’t really fit as a package as they’re both basically first baseman (if Davis can play first, he can’t play anywhere else).
Noel1982
Castillo in particular is wanted by every single team looking for a starter ! They have all the leverage there as long as they don’t try to attach a bad contract to them ! Mets fans thinking guys they are done with and want to see traded like smith Davis even McNeil for a top of the rotation pitched is stupid like equivalent of lakers fans thinking teams should trade them their superstar for scraps
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Yeah, I have to agree, no reason for Reds to trade Castillo unless they can attach the Suarez or Moose contract or get maybe four of a team’s top ten prospects back in return with at least two being overall top 100. Now if Cohen wants Suarez to keep Cano company, he can get Castillo and the Reds will take a bag of bats in return. What is more likely, Reds keep Castillo and trade Sonny Gray. The Dodgers, Mariners and Blue Jays have better prospects to offer than the Mets to get Sonny Gray.
Rsox
Mets should keep McNeil. Cano, if he comes back, is basically a DH at this point. Smith is expendable as he is blocked by Alonso at 1B. Is not really an Outfielder, and probably blocked by Cano at DH. If they can get a Major League piece back they should do it
Cosmo2
I hate to agree because Smith is my favorite player but you’re right. McNeil has a definite place on this team and Smith’s lefty bat is redundant with Cano at DH. Davis also DH/PH role but Smith hopefully can bring something back.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Trade both of them for pitching or pitching prospects. Both could do well on another team. Given this winter’s acquisitions, they no longer fit and the Mets suddenly have a lack of SP depth.
SystemQB
Trade McNeil to The Guardians for Clase and Pleasac. Mets could toss in a few nice throw in single A players
Samuel
L O L
Sunday Lasagna
Diamondbacks might be a good trade partner. They project Christian Walker at 1B and Josh Rojas at 3B…..Smith and McNeil would be better….. If the Mets take Bumgarners crappy contract, maybe they can get a Blake Walston or a Ryne Nelson.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
1.) Robinson Cano (2022 and 2023) $40.5 million due (in addition to $7.5 million paid by Mariners)
2.) Dominic Smith $3 million for 2022
3.) Maybe a middle prospect from Mets like pitcher Junior Santos
Total $43.5 million
In return for:
Madison Bumgarner (2022, 2023 and 2024) $23 mil + $23 mil + 14 mil = $60 mil
So Mets would be taking on $16.5 million in added salary to get three years of Bumgarner. Bumgarner is a shell of his HOF Giants’ days but he would slot into the fourth spot of Mets’ rotation nicely.
I know that I have said many times that a trade partner for Cano cannot be found, but who rejects this deal first, D-backs or Mets?
Al Hirschen
McNeil for Kimbrel
Jal179
Jays should add McNeil. Lefty bat with versatility
Spare Tire Dixon
I would think NY would at least wait to see if the DH comes to the NL this year before parting with Dom Smith. McNeil to Toronto or ChiSox would be a strong fit. Rockies should inquire too.
Tampa or Seattle would be a nice fit for D.Smith if he is moved
Spare Tire Dixon
How about Toronto sending Biggio and/or prospect(s) to NY for McNeil and Davis?
McNeil at 2B, Davis/Espinal at 3B. The Mets can use Biggio as more of a utility type
Spare Tire Dixon
White Sox send Kimbrel and pieces to Mets for McNeil and Smith.
McNeil at 2B and Smith at DH gives the ChiSox some LH balance in the lineup. Kimbrel gives the Mets another closer option.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
If the mets trade both of them to one team, the return should include at least one high end prospect, not a bunch of pieces
Ron Tingley
McNeil had a better year than both Escobar and Canha, why get rid of him?
Merry Xmas. Taking the kids to the pool as I write this out
wu tang killa beez
Trading Mcneil would be a mistake, Smith on the other hand never lived up to the expectations
Tomas7
I agree with you, besides keeping McNeil
I also like jd Davis’ bat and would keep him for dh at least, he rakes even in an off year. Dom may have a health issue, his bat speed was off last year. Interesting to see how this all works out.
Robrock30
LOL Mets trading these 2 McNeil & Dom when they have trashed their value.
1) McNeil is a must trade since he is a man without a position. Mets will have to restore Cano to 2B with his contract and seniority setting all time 2B records. Plus $ 341 MM Lindor the diva who has Cohen’s ear hates him. Buy low here and maybe you pickup a gem.
2) Dom Smith another without a position who was dumped in LF but he doesn’t hit for enough to play there and sacrifice defense. I still cannot believe the Mets drafted him in front of Aaron Judge who IMO was the one to draft there. What were they thinking but of course same with Kumar Rocker? LOL
MLB Top 100 Commenter
No need to Judge the Mets for being off their Rocker.
(Just some word-Smithing.)
Cosmo2
McNeil plays either second (contrary to what you think, there is no need to start Cano), or third (McNeil is much better than Escobar). Plus, McNeil’s versatility makes him valuable in that way. So, he’s not a must trade. Smith can DH. Also, there is no evidence that Lindor hates McNeil. They got into it once. They’re grown men, they can get along.
Robrock30
Cosmo,
I have watched McNeil play 3B and he really can’t handle the throws from there. He doesn’t have the arm for 3B and JD Davis isn’t really playable there either.
Dom Smith doesn’t hit for enough power or anything else to be a DH.
Cosmo2
Yea you’re probably right about McNeil at third so I’d just play him at second.
Samuel
@ Cosmo2;
You guys are missing something big…….
With all these 2B’s and guys that can play any of 3B, 2B, 1B and maybe the corner OF – what happens if Lindor gets hurt again?
They need a backup SS on that roster, and if necessary he can play 2B as well. They don’t need 3-4 guys that can play 2B. There are only so many roster slots.
Cosmo2
Guillorme. Very good backup SS option. Obviously a downgrade from Lindor but backup SS isn’t a problem…. McNeil at second, Escobar third, Smith/Davis DH (or trade one) and Canó pinch hits or just gets catapulted to the moon for all I care. But I like Cano in a 1980s Rusty Staub role.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Back in the early ’60s, Ral Donner had a hit record titled, “You Don’t Know What You Got Until You Lose It.”.
If the Mets dump McNeil and Dom Smith for below market value, they will regret it for years. Both of those guys can play. There will be no shortage of interested teams should they be serious about moving both.
They should keep them because the Mets, more than almost any other MLB team, seem to suffer injuries to key players year after year. Depth like that is not easily attainable when other teams know you have a hole(s) to fill. Keep both and let Buck do his thing and keep everyone happy.
Robrock30
The real issue is the Mets FO is the worst at talent evaluation. This is how they let Justin Turner go for nothing and Dan Murphy who blossomed right under their noses. This is how they draft Gavin Cecchini SS in front of Corey Seager and Dom Smith in front of Aaron Judge.
Cosmo2
Every team makes those mistakes, you can cherry pick similar examples from any team.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
@robrock – your comment seems to suggest that a FO’s knack for talent evaluation is a static immutable entity. Most successful business organizations adapt to changing circumstances. Your stereotyped depiction of the FO leaves me smh. And as Cosmo implied your cherry picked examples further exemplifies your faulty logic
JackStrawb
@AgeeHarrelsonJones Of course the Mets FO knack for talent evaluation is, at best, static. (You should be so lucky.) These are still the inept, Alderson Mets, only now with increased geriatric issues, plus having added proven failure Billy Eppler to the mix.
Imagine believing adding Scherzer at 3/130m was the best way to try to improve a team currently slated to give 110-plus starts to the likes of Carrasco, Walker, Peterson, and Megill. This is quite obviously the same ‘process’ that spent 10/341m on Lindor.
“Successful business organization”?? That leaves me smh and lmfao.
While rofih.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
The Yankees drafted Eric Jagielo (who?) in front of Judge. Clearly, their FO cannot evaluate talent.
Robrock30
To me at the time back in 2013 Aaron Judge was who I would have drafted there for the Mets. Great physical specimen with Power and OF Defense besides the Great Name. I don’t know why the Yankees didn’t grab him with their 1st Pick but Cashman did get it right and so did I and others posting on the MLB Mets Board in real time.
Cosmo2
A lot of folks were probably hesitant about Judge because often guys that size can’t make it work in the major leagues. Actually very few good offensive players his height throughout MLB history. Obviously those folks were wrong and the Yankees’ scouting department saw through the perception.
lumber and lighting
Love McNeil,everyone has a challenging year.Being a slump,injury,or personal problems.I’m from LA and every time I watched the Mets the last 4 yrs it seem McNeil was always doing something for his team.Mets are looking for players who make a splash & if they overlook one rt in front of their nose by trading him.IMO it would be a huge mistake because McNeil can play and play hard he does.It’s infectious and they become clubhouse leaders.Shipping him will cost the franchise!
jvent
Smith,Davis and Szapucki to the A’s for Manaea and Chapman.
deGrom,Scherzer,Manaea,Carrasco and Walker with Megill and Peterson as backups and BP pieces
Nimmo LF
Marte CF
Lindor SS
Alonso 1b
Chapman 3b
Escobar 2b
Cano DH
Canha RF
McCann C
Cosmo2
Really doubt the A’s even consider that offer.
Spare Tire Dixon
Correct. If Smith or McNeil were worth a guy like Matt Chapman, I doubt the Mets would be considering parting with either one.
JoeBrady
What, no other bench players you want to get rid?
JackStrawb
The Mets FO has a long, long way to go to reach competence.
McNeil, Smith, and Davis would make up the nucleus of a respectable, contender’s bench. How is trading them at low ebb smart? And never mind that the Mets don’t actually have a starting 2Bman, other than McNeil. If they’re thinking of Cano as anything other than an extreme longshot, they really are as idiotic as they were in thinking Scherzer for the same AAV as Gausman plus Stroman was the right move.