9:55AM: Glaser provided an update on Twitter, saying that the draft is “postponed indefinitely”.
8:49AM: The MLB instituted a lockout yesterday after the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Until a new CBA is agreed to, the lockout will remain in place with teams prohibited from making transactions during that time. This apparently will include the major league portion of this year’s Rule 5 draft, as Kyle Glaser of Baseball America reports that it has been canceled. The Triple-A section of the draft will still take place as scheduled, however.
As noted by Glaser, the draft has taken place each year since 1920, even going ahead during past MLB work stoppages such as the 1994 strike. However, 2021 will see that century-long streak come to an end.
The Rule 5 draft has long been used as a way for players to get opportunities to play at the MLB level when not given them by their previous club. Teams with open 40-man roster spots can select a player with four to five years of pro experience from other organizations if said player hasn’t been given a spot on the 40-man roster. Players who signed at 18 years of age or younger but have five years of experience can be selected, as can players signed at 19 or older who have four years of experience.
As Glaser points out, the most recent iteration of the draft led to the breakout seasons of such players as Akil Baddoo, Garrett Whitlock and Tyler Wells. From a historical perspective, the draft also led to the first MLB action of such stars as Johan Santana, George Bell, Joakim Soria, Roberto Clemente and dozens of others.
It’s fair to wonder whether teams knew that this decision was going to be made since, just a couple of weeks ago, they still went through the usual process of adding players to their 40-man rosters in order to protect them from being selected in the draft.
This screws a lot of teams who cut good players to put on prospects for no reason
Wrong, no “good” players were cut. Players who had no place on the 25 man were cut – if you were good, youd be there. No teams care at all about who they cut – you care more than the front offices do – why?
Money dictated some of those decisions so not all on players.
then why did some of those players make it to other rosters?
Because half of all MLB GMs are terrible at their jobs
Because some teams have more than 40 good players too.
Dude that was so aggressive what the heck haha.
Is a player eligible if he has 6 years of experience but signed when he was 16 or 17?
Anyone after 5 years in Milb regardless of age.
I believe players with six years of minors experience become free agents.
Disagree. Sometimes teams (like the guardians) have too many to protect. Cantillo will be on a mlb roster next year. What you’re stating is not that black and white.
Postponed indefinitely. Not canceled.
Rule 5 got 86’d
Big woo hoo hoo
Such a shame. The Rule 5 draft is such a great part of the offseason. And in looking at it historically, there’s some great chances to find a diamond in the rough.
its kinda lame and really obscure, just let players become FAs at 25 no matter what and all this changes.
Age is kind of arbitrary in baseball though. A guy could turn pro at 17, or 23, or anywhere in between, let alone reach the majors. I think becoming a FA has to be based on time played, not age.
A lot of college players are just becoming MLB ready at 25…Why would a team even draft them if they can just pilfer them off free agency after another team develops them?
Because the “MLB readiness” thing has always been a sham and most of these guys are ready at 21?
How can you be MLB ready at 21, if you haven’t even gone pro at 21? Even if you are at a level where you could play in the majors, if guys want to choose to go to college first, they shouldn’t be at that kind of disadvantage. There are way too many factors in baseball to have something like that be based on age.
Teams spend millions on player development so when they finally have a star or two, letting them become FA at 25 is absurd. Some don’t even make it until 24 or 25. They are proposing 29.5 years of age, higher minimums, one less year of arbitration, eliminating time manipulation. Teams should just lock up their players earlier. Acuna, Tatis jr, Franco etc….teams need to be proactive
Dumb
Imagine being the Guardians right now. If they had known this was going to be cancelled, they wouldn’t have had to add 11 guys.
this happened to every team, bet Yankees regretting releasesingClint Fraizer right about now…
No, I don’t think the Yankees are regretting cutting Clint Frazier.
he still has so much pontiental,
Frazier also has debilitating head issues. If the Yankees thought he’d contribute next year or beyond they would have kept him
Frazier didn’t have any options left. No way he would make the team as currently constructed. They have Judge, Hicks, Gallo and Stanton. They also need to get a center fieler, whether a backup or starter. They also have Andujar who still has an option left. Add in the uncertainty of his health, letting Frazier go was a no brainer.
Not regretting. They gave him many chances but never can stay healthy. If he finally gets healthy, good for him. Yankees haven’t won in so many years they don’t care about letting one fringe prospect go.
Can we please get rid of that idiot Rob Braindead. The entire planet can see he’s a blight on baseball.
Yeah he’s gonna destroy the game
No tanking destroyed the game for many fan bases.
tanking happens in every sport
Tanking may happen in every sport, but it damages the game far more than any spending does. Spending is a self-correcting problem. Tanking results in adverse affects for the players, the team, other teams, and the fans.
Thought I had you on mute, @Themed. Whew, good. Angry cards fans are my favorite.
Sadly, the only people who can get rid of a commissioner are the owners, since he works only for them.
You’ll have to talk to the owners about your complaints, because when commissioner speaks their voice comes out of his mouth. This only part of the entire planet that matters as far as the commissioner’s job is concerned.
BTW, I don’t think it’s fair to wonder if the teams knew about the suspension of the Rule 5 Draft. The commissioner works for them and nobody else so it makes no sense to wonder about where he’s getting his marching orders. He sure isn’t making them up all on his lonely.
Greed all around. No sympathy for either side, figure this out and get back to baseball. The only group being punished in this tone deaf exchange are fans. Fans should “lockout” MLB when it comes time to buy tickets, merchandise, etc. Give them a bit of their own medicine. Greed all around.
Well said, 30 Parks!
I like baseball. I’ll still go to games and buy merchandise.
Exactly-just part of the business of dividing up millions of $$$-it’ll all be okay
… I get that, Brave. Honest. But, the blind faith of fans, myself included, is why the greed lives-on from owners & players. Unfortunate. I’m not naive to the circumstances, just tired of the process. Fans have more power than we realize to create change.
I dont understand this “greed from both sides” crud youre peddling too.
Its -only- the owners who are greedy. The players are fighting for their fair share of the profits their skills create. If your statement was factual and it was truly “on both sides” then every player would be fighting for a $10M min wage.
Really terrible take you have, I get you probably arent on the owners side, but if you are anti-player then you automatically are pro-owner, because the profits can only got to 2 entities here – you dont appear to understand that part.
Always nice starting a rebuttal with “you don’t understand.” Why do you have to take sides? Both sides need to realize they’re whining about money in the face of fans who are just trying to get-by-in-life. Billionaires & millionaires squabbling over millions & billions. It’s a bad look. Neither side is dealing in reality. You ever had an independent thought, UK? Give it a try.
It was indeed nice of him to qualify his rebuttal with “I don’t understand” rather than just calling your equivocation of the owner and player stances the quisling fealty to power that it is.
Yes, ballplayers make too much money in the grand scheme of things. In the the world of baseball, however, they do not. The “both sides” fallacy plays right into the owners hands. It’s the language of a puppet on a string, and yet you have the gall to suggest someone else isn’t thinking independently.
I think the premise needs to be established though. You both are referring to “ball players” but you may very well be referring to opposite ends of the spectrum.
There are three sides in this matter – players, owners, fans. Three sides. “Quisling fealty,” you’ll have to give me a moment on that one. It’s a lack of perspective in considering this a two-sided matter.
I think most fans will go to games no matter what they are saying now. however, if you can avoid buying merchandise, find some place to park other than at the ballpark or drink one fewer beer at the game that is a step in the right direction
The more I think about this perspective, the more confused I get. Do people stop buying cars when auto workers go on strike?
Are auto workers signing $325 million dollar contracts, GBS? I’m in the wrong business.
Similar to the thought that single human beings littering makes any difference in pollution when 100 corporations make 80% of the worlds pollution, us ticket and merchandise-buying fans mean absolutely nothing to MLB. It’s the luxury box buyers, the advertisers who can get MLB’s attention. You not buying a ticket means ZERO to the team and MLB. Nothing. Completely empty gesture that only makes YOU feel better. No one else is touched in the slightest by you not buying things.
I disagree, it’s a matter of standing-up to the nonsense. It’s having a voice. It’s a matter of not taking this lying down. Fans are pawns, it’s the same way governments work – the reliable dullness of apathy.
I have more important things than baseball to get upset about.
That’s actually not correct at all. At an individual level, sure but if collectively like 90% of people stopped buying merch and going to games then that would have a huge impact. In 2020, with no ticket sales in 30 home games, almost $2.5B with top 10 teams losing a total $1.3B. Now imagine this over the course of 81 games. MLB would lose probably $6B-$7B. Then who knows how many billions in merchandising. So, you looking at hundreds of millions of losses for each owner. If you think that wouldn’t force change then you are nuts. So, it isn’t that the gesture doesn’t matter, it is that the volume of participants needs to be higher. Comparing it to pollution doesn’t translate. Although, even if collectively people account for 20% of pollution then if 90% of people substantially changed then an 18% impact on any issue is actually very notable and influential. Also, you get those 80% of companies to stop polluting as much by getting 90% of people boycotting them. The number doesn’t have to be 90% but my point is you need volume of people participating and the impact will always be big. It’s the mindset that my individual participation doesn’t matter that prevents this from ever happening.
None of this reply is correct at all no matter how much of an essay you want to write about it. At least use real world examples that aren’t like, the 2020 season, which can NOT be used as an example, the plague threw everyone into a tizz and things were done much differently had if they had more time to think it through. Lots of “ifs” from you. This reply did nothing to change my mind from my OP.
You never addressed my main point is that luxury box, corporate money and advertising makes up almost all the profit for the team owners. That amount will always > whatever single-game fans bring in. That is a factual point.
We mean nothing to this game no matter how self-important a lot of you are. Sorry if that stings your egos….
Who do you think attends games in luxury boxes and season tickets? Fans. Why do you think corporations spend money in MLB? To attract & acquire fans’ money to the corporation’s interests. We’re stripping the matter down to bare bones. If the fans revolt, MLB has a big problem and, without fans (money) to acquire, corporations will follow-the-money out the door. MLB is hopeful such a backlash won’t take place. Steroids & Cal Ripken brought fans back last time – what will they do this time around? Maybe the $15 beers, $200 tickets and $200 jerseys will do the trick. MLB is pricing itself away from the common fan, while millionaires & billionaires argue over riches.
It’s a bad look on MLB.
I completely disagree, when the Dodgers had a terrible owner, Frank McCourt. A huge percentage of people stopped going to games. It eventually forced him to sell the team to the current ownership group and the team and fans were both rebuilt
The Braves took in about $1.4M per game in 2021. That’s not chopped liver.
Break that down into game tickets and season ticket/luxury box ticket holders please.
I don’t know the average ticket cost not counting the luxury box/corporate seating, but if you assume $25 (probably low) for about 40,000 seats, that’s $1M per game, not counting concessions.
I think the fans are the least affected. How are we being punished? Sure, I like to pay attention to offseason moves as it is entertaining but this is affecting peoples pocket books and lives.
24, if you’re talking about stadium workers and such, I agree. But, if you think the players & owners are in peril, well, that’s where we part company.
The lockout affects Minor Leaguers who make less than minimum wage and players who haven’t reached arbitration don’t make life changing money. People act like all professional athletes are making a sick amount of money. Look at teams like Mariners or Rays that are filled with players in pre-arbitration years. Didn’t Mike Trout win 2 MVPs before making over a million? Players want a higher salary floor and owners want to limit the years on contracts so you don’t see anymore of these 10 year deals.
MLB minimum salary is $570,500. Anybody making half-a-million should be able to weather-the-storm. Minor leaguers, fair point, but I’m just not one to roll-over in such a style. Fans are pawns and people are sheep – manipulation.
This lock out and the negotiations will have no effect on the minor league players. This is Major League Players only, vs the Owners.
As if greed isn’t the driving force behind every decision in this country.
Pun, so excessive greed excuses all greed? Come on, man.
30 – Fans aren’t pawns. Pawns are on the board and part of the game. We’re in the stands watching, literally and figuratively.
And the $325M contract is irrelevant to my analogy to an auto workers strike.
GBS, I disagree. The single reason for a lockout, or strike for that matter, is that fans will become annoyed or disinterested, thus putting pressure on either side to capitulate. Pawns. Sacrifice the pawns to get to the King & Queen. Pawns – after thoughts. A deliberate usage of unimportant factors. As for the auto workers, that’s apples & oranges.
The reason for a lockout is the threat of players not getting paid if there’s no agreement when the regular season is scheduled to start.
Point of fact: if there’s a lockout, then all players with contracts get paid. If there’s a strike, they don’t.
bhambrave – Everything I’ve read is they don’t, other than signing bonuses and deferred payments.
You’re right. In 1990 the players were due to be paid. Apparently it’s changed since then.
Guys, I think everyone in this thread brings relevant points to this topic. I also think dismissing 30 Parks out-of-hand is a mistake. In viewing his argument objectively, he does have valid points. Here’s why:
1) Money – It’s not that we (I) care how much players make, as much as what they provide to us and at what cost. The inherent problem is, unlike every day laborers, many can afford to never work, and sit out until such time as their conditions are met. Auto workers cannot do that or their families starve. They also provide a crucial service industry. That’s NOT a slight on wealth, wealth is great. It’s the underlying motive and the need for insane wealth, which brings me to P #2;
2) Both owners & players can compromise in many areas, reasonably. Those are usually areas of common sense, but taken to extremes to convey a message. Get those ridiculous things out of the way and the meat & potatoes can be addressed.
3) Neither side is making any decision on what’s good for the game. For example, players won’t go to universal DH (I’m actually not in favor of this out of personal preference) without compensation in another area, regardless of whether it benefits the actual game and fans.
The aforementioned examples speak to 30 Parks’ assessment of excessive greed as the underlying motive for both sides. Ultimately, this is a game. It could collapse completely tomorrow and our lives would go on. 30 Parks is simply stating, if I’m not wrong, that we the fans make sports possible because it’s a business and therefore should show them we have a voice they are willingly ignoring. He does have a valid point is all I’m saying.
– Diatribe complete –
YankeeClipper, well said. It’s all so tone deaf in the face of reality. I remain puzzled as to why some fans are so easily swayed by rhetoric on either side. I’m a believer in standing-up, the fans are not without power in this matter. I’m not questioning people’s love of baseball, I’m frustrated by the apathetic nature of paying customers under such circumstances.
I think we (me included, obviously) have a strong tendency to argue from predetermined perspectives without stepping back at times, whether it’s our underlying political views or general views on wealth disparity, etc. Thus, we enter into silos and dig in without due consideration for the points being brought forth. Hell, I don’t know.
I’m not apathetic, it’s just none of my business. If baseball is being played, I’ll go to a game or turn it on at home. If it’s not, I’ll do something else. If you as a fan are upset about how things are going, do whatever you think is appropriate. For me, it’s just entertainment.
Yankee Clipper – My issue with 30 Parks (and A’sfaninUK) is the arrogance and condescension in their comments, as if they have it all figured out and the rest of us are oblivious to reality.
And my example of auto workers is this: In what other industry do the customers propose a boycott if ownership and workers have a work stoppage? None come to mind.
Gbs: That’s a very valid point regarding the strike analogy, and I understand why it seems that their remarks were condescending. Even if he meant it that way, it doesn’t take away the validity to the point he was making.
Maybe a better analogy would be when businesses make decisions and customers boycott them, thereby forcing changes in the business model?
The main problem with this is the uniqueness to this situation: you have a very divisive Union-Ownership battle. But everyone in the mix has far more money than the “customers” could dream of. Both sides are asking for more of that pie and many of the customers struggle to go to a few games with family because of the costs already.
So it’s incredibly personalized in many aspects. I think all of you bring incredibly intelligent viewpoints to this argument and of course I don’t have the answer. I’ve also been on both sides of this so I can relate to both. And your issue is perfectly legitimate as well. If it’s simply arguments generated from arrogance, that’s an improper posture and premise. I just try to look past at the underlying point of what he’s postulating.
Arrogance and condescending because we disagree? Sign of the times. Shut down any and all discussion to spare hurt feelings. Sign of the times. It’s a rallying of spirit, you’re taking it personally. It’s a discussion. Apathy is a major problem in our world, we’re all apathetic at times, myself included. It’s frustrating. I’m arrogant and condescending, you’re an apathetic follower of rhetoric. At least we know where we stand, GBS. Your auto-workers comment belongs on a site called Auto Workers Trade Rumours – good luck. Apples & oranges (I hope I haven’t offended any apples or oranges who are reading this post).
Yankee Clipper – Owners have direct impact on the size of the pie through TV negotiations, ticket/beer/jersey prices, multimedia development, etc. Players have gotten a reduced percentage of that pie over the last decade or two and want to bring that percentage back up.
30 Parks – You asked UK if he’s ever had an independent thought and said people are sheep. Perhaps I’m making an incorrect inference, but it seems to me you think you know what’s going on better than pretty much everyone else on this comments board, which I perceive as arrogant and condescending.
I’m curious what I’ve written that indicates I’m an “apathetic follower of rhetoric.”
Regarding giving MLB money, I haven’t been to a game in a few years.
GBS, Clipper, UK and the rest, I appreciate the back-and-forth. A spirited discussion is always a good thing. I’m signing-off. Good luck to you all on this day and let’s just get baseball back between the lines. Until next time …
Gbs: Yes that is also correct. I just hammered the Yankees for this very thing.
Their payroll 2005? $205M, revenue $277M
Their payroll 2021? $205M, revenue $678M!!!!
That’s a slap in the face. And now Hal votes for a cap? Why do we think that is? That’s exactly why I am against caps too. It only hurts the players and makes owners more and more money.
Wow, thank you for those numbers, YC. They’re stunning!
Kevin Goldstein at FanGraphs has mentioned in chats how every team could have much higher payrolls, and this is a big data point supporting that assertion.
They say it’s canceled, but I wonder if it’s just postponed until after the lockout is ended.
“canceled” -decide or announce that (a planned event) will not take place.
“postponed”- cause or arrange for (something) to take place at a time later than that first scheduled.
Yeah, because MLB is so great with semantics.
My guess is it’s actually just postponed until the lockout is over, then they will reschedule it.
The Rule 5 draft is part of the CBA, right? I imagine the new CBA will still have a Rule 5 draft, probably with only minor changes, if any. And that new CBA will determine if and when a Rule 5 draft for this season will take place.
The fact that the Rule 5 draft under the now-expired CBA was “canceled” doesn’t mean a Rule 5 draft under a new CBA won’t be scheduled at some point in the future.
$10 says it’s just bad reporting. “cancelled” catches more clicks than “postponed”.
You would think the league would have announced this before the deadline a couple weeks ago. A lot of teams cut vets for no reason now
Would love to see the whole rule 5 draft go the way of the dodo. Even though my Tigers have has benefits of this draft the past few years.
um, why?
This isn’t even a hot take, this is just dumb. It even says in article that this system helps players who get buried elsewhere and the system is by no means broken lol
The system is by plenty means broken.
There’s been a lot of chatter about fixing it so the R5 wont even need to exist. Players getting to be FAs by 25 type things.
So once again online, a dumb person calls another person dumb when it is they who is dumb to begin with – why are you all so arrogant about your wrong opinions and present them as fact? You called him dumb then literally said “the system is by no means broken” when it is massively, massively broken.
Do you need a hug or something? I usually enjoy your comments, but this whole thread you have been acting like a jerk. Just wondering what’s going on with you….
The system doesn’t belong to the fans, or even the players. The players are merely employees. Whatever they can negotiate is what they get. The only change I see that needs to be made is for MLB to lose its anti-trust exemption. After that’s done, whatever happens happens.
Also great points. Interesting to think what would happen at that point.
players are largely contractors with some aspect of employees mixed up. like getting suspended or fined.
Im guessing the MLBPA is serious about restructuring salaries and allowing players to become FAs sooner. They might have a different idea in store for R5 to replace it.
They may be, but I wholeheartedly agree with your points above that to set a definitive age would be problematic for a variety of reasons. Not that there can’t be a better way, because there can be. But with a sport of development and entry at a wide range of ages, it’s difficult to pinpoint an age that applies to everyone and, imho, would be detrimental to those closer to that age getting any opportunity for that reason.
So basically screwing the small market teams even further by having less control. Might as well eliminate some teams because a lot of teams are already just feeder systems for the big market teams.
Well, there goes my Saturday night.
Pirates lucked out on this one.
Wonder if Mason Martin is relieved or angered by this news?
The Rule 5 is postponed? That’s like 90% of the Orioles’ offseason!
What is going to happen to this site? Ghost town for the next couple months?
We can always discuss politics? Or Covid? They seem to be popular.
I cant think of 2 topics id rather not discuss with anonymous people lol
Religion?
Ooohhh, forgot about that one!
Yep, shocker, Glaser says “Canceled” to get the clicks. more great reporting.
Did you say, “Pam” or “Pan”?
The AAA version occasionally has players with major league experience, but I’m not exactly sure how that works. I’m guessing the player would have to be at the AA level or lower at the time of the draft even if he had at one time been in the majors. I believe the Mets picked Braxton Lee from the Marlins in the AAA Rule 5 Draft a few years back.
Postponed indefinitely means we can’t schedule it until the lockout ends. They’ll have it eventually.