Few teams around the league have as acute a need in center field as the Phillies. Last season, Philadelphia got just a .230/.298/.363 showing at the position. That production was 24 points below the league average by measure of wRC+, the fourth-worst offense around the league.
The bulk of the at-bats were taken by Odúbel Herrera and Travis Jankowski, both of whom were outrighted off the 40-man roster after the season. Among the remaining options, Matt Vierling, Mickey Moniak and Adam Haseley look to be the favorites for playing time.
That’s a suboptimal group for a win-now club, and they’re likely to pursue upgrades coming out of the lockout. In a reader mailbag, Matt Gelb of the Athletic wrote this week that the Phils do “not view any of the internal options in center field as viable everyday players in 2022.” It seems president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski, general manager Sam Fuld and the rest of the front office are planning to look for a new regular.
Both Moniak and Haseley are former top ten picks, with Moniak going first overall back in 2016. There’s no question both players’ stocks have fallen over the years since, though. Moniak is coming off a .238/.299/.447 showing with Triple-A Lehigh Valley. He’s still just 23 years old, but Baseball America wrote midseason that many evaluators now project the left-handed hitter “as a fourth or fifth outfielder” without any standout physical tools.
Haseley has a generally solid minor league track record, but he’s been a below-average hitter over his big league tenure. Across 355 plate appearances, he owns a .264/.322/.373 line with five home runs. The left-handed hitter has quality bat-to-ball skills, but he’s not walked a whole lot and has hit for virtually no power. He opened the 2021 season as the Phils’ center fielder but took a leave of absence after nine games. Assigned to Lehigh Valley upon returning to the team, he hit some uncharacteristic minor league struggles (.224/.282/.295 over 170 trips to the plate).
Each of Moniak or Haseley could remain on hand as depth, but Gelb suggests the Phils could be willing to trade either player coming out of the transactions freeze. As he notes, both players were selected under previous GM Matt Klentak, and the new regime may be more willing to part with the one-time top prospects. Their respective trade values have surely fallen from their peaks, but it’s likely there’d still be moderate interest around the league in each player were the Phils to make them available.
Regardless of whether Moniak and/or Haseley begin the year in Philadelphia, it seems evident the club will look outside the organization for help. Yet that desire is complicated by the barren free agent outlook at the position. Starling Marte was the only slam-dunk regular center fielder available in free agency this offseason. He’s already signed with the division-rival Mets; utilityman Chris Taylor re-upped with the Dodgers.
Kris Bryant has some center field experience, but it’d be a stretch to rely on him to man the position everyday. He’s better suited for third base and/or the corner outfield. Other than Bryant, the center field candidates still available are limited. Herrera’s probably not coming back. At age 38, Brett Gardner’s not an ideal fit for a regular centerfield role. Kevin Pillar, Danny Santana and Jarrod Dyson are all fourth/fifth outfield types themselves.
For the Phils to find a definitive upgrade, that probably requires turning to the trade market. Byron Buxton would have been a prime target, but he and the Twins agreed to a nine-figure extension. Who else might the Phils look into?
Controllable Stars With Questionable Trade Availability
There are a few big names who rival clubs have inquired about in recent months, but it’s not clear any of them will wind up on the move. The Diamondbacks won’t entirely rule out the possibility of trading Ketel Marte, but they’ve shown little inclination to do so. That’d take a massive haul, and Marte’s probably a better fit defensively at second base than he is in center.
The Orioles are willing to listen to offers on breakout star Cedric Mullins. Being amenable to offers is far different than actively trying to trade the player, though, and the O’s are under no pressure to make a deal. Mullins is controllable for another four seasons (barring changes to the service time structure). He’s not yet making much more than the league minimum salary, and the Orioles can’t rebuild forever. As with Marte, he may not be truly “untouchable,” but a serious offer for Mullins would require parting with plenty of young talent. That’s no easy move for any club, but it’d be especially difficult for the Phillies, whose farm system Baseball America slotted among the league’s bottom five in August.
The Pirates have gotten calls on Bryan Reynolds, another All-Star controllable through 2026. Reports in advance of the trade deadline suggested Pittsburgh was more apt to build around Reynolds than trade him, though. They rebuffed inquiries from multiple clubs this summer, and there’s little indication they’ve changed their tune about moving him over the intervening months.
Most Straightforward Trade Candidates
If those stars aren’t attainable, where could the Phillies look? The most obvious answer is to Rays center fielder Kevin Kiermaier, who’s due $14.5MM this year (including the buyout on a 2023 club option). Philadelphia has already been linked to the three-time Gold Glove winner this offseason. There’s no question he’d be an upgrade defensively, as he’s perhaps the game’s top gloveman in the outfield. Kiermaier’s bat tends to hover around league average, but that’d still be a marked improvement over the production Philly got in 2021. The concern with Kiermaier is one of durability; he’s only once exceeded 500 plate appearances in a season, with his all-out playing style taking a significant toll on his body over the years.
Kiermaier’s teammate, Manuel Margot, might also be available. He’s projected for a $5MM arbitration salary in his final year of club control. He’s a bit worse than Kiemaier on both sides of the ball, but he’s also more affordable and is a strong defensive option in his own right.
The A’s are generally expected to retool this winter. Oakland hasn’t traditionally been willing to undergo a complete teardown and rebuild, and the motivation for their anticipated roster shakeup this winter would be financial. At a projected $2.8MM salary, Ramón Laureano is less likely to wind up on the move than some of his higher-priced teammates. Teams figure to at least check in with the A’s about Laureano’s availability coming out of the lockout, but his status is complicated by a performance-enhancing drug suspension that’ll linger into the first month of next season.
There are a couple talented but underperforming options who might be worth a change-of-scenery attempt. Víctor Robles has been surpassed by Lane Thomas on the Nationals’ center field depth chart. It’s possible Washington makes him available, although pulling off a deal is made more difficult by the intra-divisional factor. The Rockies could trade Raimel Tapia. In the cases of both Robles and Tapia, though, there’s a chance neither player proves to be all that definitive an upgrade over the Phils’ in-house options.
If Philadelphia’s amenable to taking on money, a few additional possibilities arise. The Blue Jays’ Randal Grichuk is due a bit more than $20MM combined over the next two seasons. The Yankees’ Aaron Hicks, meanwhile, is signed through 2025 at around $10MM per year. Neither player would land that kind of contract were they free agents now, so Toronto or New York would have to offset salary in some fashion to incentivize Philadelphia to make that kind of move.
There’s also some chance the Dodgers are open to moving Cody Bellinger, who’s in line for a $17MM salary after avoiding arbitration. Los Angeles isn’t just going to give Bellinger away — they’d have non-tendered him were that the case — but it’s not out of the question they make him available on the heels of a dismal 2021 season. As with Robles and Tapia, each member of this group comes with their own performance and/or injury question marks though.
Outside-The-Box Possibilities
The Astros have reportedly poked around the market for an impact center fielder of late. They’ll face similar challenges pulling off a deal as the Phils or anyone else. But if Houston managed to acquire someone like Mullins or Reynolds? Then their incumbent group of promising yet not quite established center fielders (Chas McCormick, Jake Meyers and José Siri) might be available. Houston did trade Myles Straw at the deadline when he hadn’t been a traditional trade candidate, although they may not want to make a similar move unless they first pull in a controllable star from somewhere else.
The Angels saw top prospect Brandon Marsh make his big league debut in 2021. He struggled offensively, but he’s a highly-regarded defender who’s probably best suited in center. If Los Angeles brings Mike Trout back to play center, maybe they’d consider moving Marsh for the right offer, but it’s tough to see a swap that lines up between the two hopeful contenders.
The Twins aren’t trading Buxton, but could they be swayed on Max Kepler? He’s primarily a right fielder but he’s capable of holding his own in center. Kepler has taken a step back over the past two seasons after seeming to break out in 2019, but even his 2021 form would be a marked upgrade over what the Phils got last year. With young corner outfielders Alex Kirilloff and Trevor Larnach also at the big league level, a Kepler trade can’t be completely ruled out. Yet it’d be a tough sell for a Twins’ front office that’s still hoping to contend in 2022.
There are different avenues for Dombrowski, Fuld and the front office to explore. But almost all of them come with some form of caveat or potential hold-up, making the need for center field help a complicated one for the Phillies (or other clubs in a similar position, for that matter) to address.
The Baseball Fan
I don’t know about the Phillies, but I would like to say this: merry Christmas to everyone! I know some of us have quarreled at times but in the end we all come together through our love of baseball, and use this great website (thank you, MLBTR) as an escape from daily life hassle. God bless and have a wonderful Christmas.
gbs42
Merry Christmas, Baseball Fan!
The Baseball Fan
You too, gbs42!
slider32
Merry Christmas!
Yankee Clipper
You too. Merry Christmas.
The Baseball Fan
Have a good one, Yankee Clipper!
bbcalmc
Thank you and you too
kodion
When Grichuk is considered an up-grade ….
Dorothy_Mantooth
I think Grichuk gets an unfair, bad rap. While he may not be worth $10M a year, he provides plus power at the plate and plays average to slightly below average defense in the OF. He’s averaged about 1.5 WAR per full season over his career. Based on these numbers, he would most likely be signing for $6M -$8M if he was a free agent this offseason, so his $10.25M per year contract isn’t that far underwater, especially with only two years remaining on it. The biggest issue with Grichuk is his inability to take a walk, resulting in a poor OBP. His K rate is actually better than league average too. The right hitting coach (or teammate) could help him improve his patience at the plate. Kyle Schwarber did wonders with Bobby Dalbec and other Red Sox hitters who weren’t taking walks once he was traded to Boston last year. Due to Grichuk’s perceived lack of value, Philly could acquire him for a very reasonable return. While he’s most likely not their top choice, if Philly could acquire him and somehow unload a bad contract on Toronto as part of the deal, all the much better. I’d certainly take Grichuk over Hicks and maybe even over Kiermaier due to his significant injury history. KK is obviously a far superior defensive CF, but as they say, “you can’t help the club when you’re always in the tub.”
bjupton100
All that injury history is something for the writers a decade or more from now to reflect on if a brilliant “accidental” hip check of a ball and a cheap team hadn’t cost him the chance to win the game and show his skills on a more national basis. On a side note war isn’t really as important as need and quality. Is this player better than what we have and do other teams also see them as an upgrade. $10,000,000 isn’t underwater. Hand me a team and I’ll bring back rings with underwater contracts and nobody’s.
hersch
Grichuk is an underrated centerfielder for defence. I’ve watched him for years and he passes the eyeball test even if he doesn’t pass any metrics ratings. And he also has a decent bat. Is he worth $10M per season? Nope. Not in my opinion. But he’ll surprise you and give you more than you think you’re getting. He’s a great athlete.
Dexxter
I agree. If you’re looking for a CF upgrade you could definitely do worse. Jays don’t need him though.
He’s typically an average defender in Center and a bit above average with the bat. Good slg… bad obp.
He may not be worth $20M over the next 2 years…. But you won’t find anyone better in free agency for a 2/$20M contract. So……
kodion
I actually like Grich overall.
Locked in offensively, he can be a beast. But he’s very inconsistent and (aside from a lower K-rate) the one skill that would instantly improve his profile, the ability to take a walk, seems to elude him.
He’s a fourth OF on a good team …and a decent player to have in that role.
bigfatandugly
gotta agree w everyone assessment of grichuk. looking at his peripherals you’d think he ‘sucks’ . as a jays fan who has watched him thru the years without getting into metrics he’s a solid player. he’s not elite.
his biggest knock is his steaky- ness. it’s either game to game of year to year. if he could put together seasons like his good years he’d be a 2WAR+ guy. he hits it’s with power which plays well in the AL east.
i like him. if he’s moved someone will get a solid player and a solid team mate.
ajrodz1335
Harper for Kiermaier. It just makes sense for both sides
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
It’s so stupid… it just might work
coolpapabellx
I could see McNeil and dom smith being cheaper pickups for their outfield. Pretty sure smith has some outfield experience even if he’s not any good out there.
Rsox
Mets aren’t trading with the Phillies. And even if they did neither play CF.
DarkSide830
Lenny Dykstra says hi.
Rsox
From 1989?.
DarkSide830
fwiw they made back to back deadline moves with Asdrubal and Jason Vargas in 2018 and 2019 too.
PhanaticDuck26
ARGH.. I STILL look back to that Asdrubal deadline move with disgust; Escobar was on the trade block at the same time and AZ snatched him up, resigned him to an excellent deal, and got great production out of him for years. I was trying to telepathically URGE Klentak to show some common sense and acquire the clearly better player, but he refused to listen. Escobar would have looked SO damn good in the Phils lineup these past few years…
Robrock30
Juan Samuel says bye and the Mets also included Roger McDowell LOL
Robrock30
Dark Side,
LOL Mets
Instead of having a homegrown outfield of MVP’s Kevin Mitchell, Lenny Dykstra and Darryl Strawberry, we ended up with a left fielder who hated baseball and a second baseman in center.
Wilpon Mets Baseball Special
Spanky McFarland
So does Roger McDowell
lemonlyman
Zero chance of this happening. Maybe less than zero.
whosehighpitch
Trade Rhys Hoskins
jkoko
Smart, now they are in the market for 1B
♪
Even if the DH expands to the NL? Hoskins was very good offensively in 2021.
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
Yea, I’ve seen Phillie fans hate Hoskins for some reason a lot on here. It makes no sense. You really wanna trade your second best hitter on a team with only 4 good hitters?
VonPurpleHayes
whosehighpitch either has an illogical hatred towards Hoskins, or he’s just trolling. If Hoskins doesn’t get hurt last year, Phillies may make the playoffs (and get eliminated rather early). Braves overcame more injuries and still managed to win, so I’m not making excuses as much as trying to point out that Hoskins is essential to the Phillies success.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
There’s a 40+HR season lurking in Hoskins’ bat if he can stay healthy. Plus, I think he’ll get his OBP back up to a higher number. Hoskins’ haters reminds me of Philly fans who booed Mike Schmidt and Del Ennis. Makes absolutely no sense.
DarkSide830
no way in heck that dude is a Phillies fan
Pax vobiscum
If he was part of a deal to acquire Olson or Chapman from Oakland then maybe.
SalaryCapMyth
The Hoskins hate is a head scratcher to me as well. He’s obviously imperfect but plenty of players are valuable without having a complete tool kit. Also, as Chipper already implied, that line up without Hoskins really looks less potent.
TheLawAbides
Phillies lineup without Hoskins and Harper, together, is very bad and definitely looks like a 100 loss team. The hate towards Hoskins maybe because the Phillies, at 1B, went from Thome than Howard now Hoskins and that’s my only guess
sweetg
toronto would give away grichuk for nothing.
Yankee Clipper
I think he’s undervalued. His stats don’t project his play imo.
Dexxter
Agreed.
A Grichuk and prospects for McNeil swap could work well for both teams.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Philly has plenty of “Nothing” to offer. Moniak for Grichuk? Done deal by me.
Rsox
Starling Marte made so much sense it was funny how it somehow didn’t happen. Kiermaier is the most logical trade choice at this point. JBJ could be made available again DD is already familiar with him
DarkSide830
I actually like Margot as a timeshare option with Vierling.
PhanaticDuck26
I’m interested to see what Vierling has as well, to be honest. I know it was a small sample size, but I loved his approach at the plate last year. Really, if the Phils go big and sign Nick C to play LF, you could argue that the offensive pop from CF might not be as big of a deal. Take last season, yea the CF numbers were bad, but the team as a whole was also hurt by the fact that Cutch was mediocre-at-best in left. Bring in Nick C, and then roll with a variation of Haseley, Moniak, and Vierling–their low-cost, in-house options for CF. That’s what I would do, and then pivot to see if Trevor Story could be had for SS. Castellanos and Story. I am greedy. I want em both. I think the Phils could swing it.
DadsInDaniaBeach
Okay, smiled at this one..I am greedy also. I said from the outset that Nick Castellanos would be the middle of the order bat Dave stated he wanted..His D in left wouldn’t be good, by Cutch wasn’t very good there either.. At least NC would rake at the Bank
TheLawAbides
Don’t know why anyone would want Castellanos over Bryant. They’re same age and one is a former MVP, versatile on defense and without a QO attached
bucketbrew35
Kiermaier honestly seems like the best possible answer to this team’s defensive woes.
13Morgs13
I would love Mullins, but he isn’t going to come cheap
Yankee Clipper
I recall going to a Phillies – Mets game in the 80s with my uncle who is a huge Philly fan. I was young. Good game, something like 15 innings and the Mets won in a walk-off.
Anyway, I saw this one dude come up to the plate a few times and my uncle kept telling me to watch him over and over. I’m thinking, “Who’s this old guy?” Mike Schmidt. Man, I had no idea who I was watching. Only live Philly game I ever saw. One of the best 3Bmen to ever step foot between the lines.
stymeedone
@13morgs
Let me help you correct that line:
I would love Mullins, but he isn’t going to come.
SalaryCapMyth
stymeedon going around putting coal in people’s stockings while sugar plums dance in their heads. How precious. =))
stymeedone
Lol! I just don’t see Baltimore moving him. He looks like a building block.
The Krukker
Phils will trade for Kiermaier and then sign somebody like Schwarber to fix the OF. (If the lockout doesn’t extend to mid summer or later.)
Dorothy_Mantooth
I like Max Kepler too as an unconventional option but his 2019 “breakout” won’t be seen again unless they go back to the juiced balls they were using that season. The Twins set the record for most HRs ever in a single season that year, and Kepler had 36! The most he’d hit before that was 20 at that was the only year (besides 2019) where he was able to even reach 20. I do love his game though. He plays the game hard and never takes a play or at bat off. He’d be a great addition to the Philly lineup.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Can Seiya Suzuki play CF?
Yankee Clipper
Yes, he can. But I would compare him to Gallo in CF. He’s faster than Gallo but not as adept defensively, so he’s not a true CFer. He’s got a good arm and can field the position, but not an everyday CFer.
Merry Christmas, Manny.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Merry Christmas to you as well. In addition to health and happiness, hopefully Santa will bring us all some baseball this Spring.
Dorothy_Mantooth
It seems like at least 20 teams are in on Suzuki. I have a feeling he is going to blow the MLBTR projection of 5/$55M out of the water. He could very well end up signing for 5/$75M or even 6/$85M at this point. The crazy thing is that he was the 10th highest paid player in the NPB, but his salary was only $2.2M. I was worried that with the lockout that he would just return to Japan to play again but when I saw the huge discrepancy in salaries between the two leagues, there’s no question that Suzuki is going to wait this out and sign a life changing deal.
For the record, the highest paid player in Japan is Masahiro Tanaka. He makes about $9.5M USD per year. I was shocked to see how much lower the salaries were over there. It must mean that attending professional baseball in Japan is actually affordable!
jett
I think his market will really be determined by the new CBA and what increase to the luxury tax there is. Even a moderate jump could incline some of these teams who have a high salary number already (like the Phils) to take a bigger swing. My gut feeling would say he ends up with Giants or the Mariners.
Also, I think we tend to be numbed to these salary figures, especially in baseball. Even when you take professional soccer in Europe, the best players in the world don’t make the kind of salary American players do in our domestic sports. Most of the star level players in other countries & sports make the majority of their earnings on endorsements.
These NPB clubs are sponsored by or offshoots of a larger conglomerate. While they’re valued by their owners, they aren’t a primary revenue driver for their owners like pro sports here are. Also, if you ever get a chance to catch a NPB game, do so. It’s a unique baseball experience, if you enjoy the atmosphere of WBC games. You’ll get a treat catching pacific league ball.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Yes I have seen both NPB & KBO games and they are really fun to watch! So much dancing and side entertainment goes on during the games; it’s really a unique baseball experience for sure!
You are correct about international salaries for the most non-U.S. professional sports, but you are incorrect about European soccer compensation. The best professional ‘football’ players in Europe are paid the highest salaries of any professional athletes in the world by a pretty wide margin. 36 year-old Ronaldo is getting paid $70M in salary & bonus this season by Man U. His total guaranteed compensation is $125M, $70M in payroll and $55M in guaranteed endorsements. Messi’s base salary this year for PSG is $75M with another $35M in guaranteed endorsements ($110 total). There are other football stars like Neymar, etc…who get paid much higher salaries than any U.S. professional team sport athletes as well.
With that said, I am still surprised about the sizable difference in compensation between NPB and MLB even with the endorsement opportunities. Most good baseball players in Japan are highly recognizable so they do get large endorsement deals, but at the end of the day, their total compensation falls well short of what they can make in MLB if they are a star player. Should Suzuki end up becoming anything close to the next Ichiro, he will have unlimited endorsement opportunities here in the US as well that will trump his annual salary by a wide margin.
AlienBob
@Dorothy
Exactly. Did you know he idolizes Ichiro? They both wear No. 51. Ichiro was in Japan recently doing a little recruiting. Should he join the Mariners Ichiro will be mentoring him. I don’t know how well Seiya speaks English but it certainly will aid his transition to the States to have Ichiro as his BFF.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Suzuki & Seattle makes all the sense in the world, but I’d prefer to see him sign with my home town Boston Red Sox!
Yankee Clipper
Don’t forget…Ichiro played for the Yankees too. Man, I loved watching him play, especially live. So underrated (at that stage of his career) imo. I wanted them to bring him back another season. Just an incredible outfielder even in his older age. Humble, graceful, talented, respectful, and a gamer. Really enjoyed his time in pinstripes, I can’t even imagine what Seattle or Japan got to see everyday live, when he was in his prime.
TheLawAbides
Suzuki to the Marlins than
When it was a game.
Reminded me of Ricky Henderson. Still productive at late age but were better then younger options.
AM21
They should have pursued Benintendi when they had the chance.
Yankee Clipper
This choice is soooo obvious – Aaron Hicks. Super awesome golfer, family man, and has potential. Obvious choice, Philly. We would even do it….. for Nola, straight up, just because it’s Christmas. You’re welcome.
gbs42
Ha ha, I’m not sure Yankees fans have been good enough to get that gift. Better check Santa’s nice/naughty list again.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, true story, man. I’m really surprised it’s so difficult to find good CFers nowadays. It’s like a void exists. Just weird from what I’m used to seeing growing up. I recall when even the mediocre CFers were still very good defensively (same as SS). Now, it’s like they’re either really good, or just suck all-around, just like catchers. Not a very deep position league-wide.
Dorothy_Mantooth
At this point, the Yankees might have to throw in Jasson just to move Hicks’ contract!
Yankee Clipper
I know, Right? I don’t see them ever moving it. If Hicks can limp on to the field, he’s the starting CFer until (If?) Jasson Dominguez or Elijah Dunham makes the Bigs. Yep, ol’ Hicksie. We will live with that one for a while. He’s like Bernie Williams without the talent.
DakotaJoe
I was shocked when the Yankees extended Hicks given his injury history.
mlb1225
Definitley think taking on one of Kiermaier or Margot is the most realistic option. Between the two, I think they’d part with Kiermaier more. He’s getting paid more and then they can platoon Margot and Phillips in CF.
jett
It’ll likely be a player like Margot/Laureano/Tapia in a trade. KK has been linked but as mentioned above, his durability is the main issue. The Phillies have been staunch on not passing the luxury tax. If they trade for KK (without sending out salary to offset it), they will be near the threshold (provided it doesn’t take a major jump in the next CBA). Which after CF, they need to fill LF, possibly SS, plus another starter and 3-4 bullpen arms.
Margot/Laureano/Tapia all hit the mark of being solid defenders with years of relative cheap control and none would likely command top prospects in a deal. With such a thin system, the Phils can’t afford to move top guys unless it’s for a star or difference maker.
If the Phillies were looking to move someone like Nola, the Angels with Marsh seem to line up nicely. However, with the rotation being one of the more stable parts of the team, they may not want to open another hole at the cost of closing one.
JoeBrady
If the Phillies don’t pass the cap, they are borderline giving up. They haven’t surpassed 82 wins in their rebuild. Positive regression from Nola should be offset by negative regression from Harper. Knebel should help, but how do they get to 90+ wins?
Dorothy_Mantooth
DD has a knack for getting owners to exceed the CBT in order to take a run at a title. He did it in Detroit, he did it in Boston and I’m guessing that Philly is next on the list. DD is working hard to convince Middleton that the Phillies are not that far away from being true contenders. He just needs more money to get them to the promised land. I won’t be surprised if Correa (or Trevor Story) ends up in Philly, along with a Kenley Jansen type of reliever as well. With the defending champs in the NL East along with a free spending Mets team and an upstart Miami team as well, the only way the Phillies can compete is to spend more money on free agents. There’s really nothing left in the farm system to trade for an impact player at this point. So if Philly has any aspirations of a deep playoff run, Middleton has no choice but to exceed the CBT and see if DD can buy him a ring. The only other option is to tear it down and start over.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Matt Klentak’s five years as GM set the Phillies back five years. His draft picks suck. His trades were, meh. never could assemble a bullpen. And Kapler was a bad choice for Philly. BTW, not a kapler hater. Was happy to see him succeed in Frisco and win NL Manager of the Year.
Phillls
Funny how people insist on blaming Klentak for draft choices. GMs do not scout players and decide who to draft. That is the scouting directors job. A little research goes a long way. It really isn’t hard. Research what a general manager’s responsibilities are, and are not.
stymeedone
Isn’t one of the GMs responsibilities to hire and oversee the scouting staff? The buck stops at the top.
stymeedone
@Dorothy
There’s always options for someone with imagination. When in Detroit, DD didn’t have to convince anyone. Mr I was all in before he got here, as he wanted to win before his time was up. When DD wanted to rebuild, it got him fired. A unique situation if ever there was one.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
What do Phillies have to offer that nets them Margot/Laureano/Tapia? I think that they are keeping Stott. Same for Painter and Rojas. So I think more likely the Phillies target someone who is not so affordable. Kiermaier for Rickardo Perez?
I have to concede that I did not think of them acquiring Bellinger. I think that would only happen in a three team deal where the A’s were also involved. E.g., the Dodgers get Olsen, the Phillies get Bellinger, and the A’s get multiple prospects from both the Dodgers and Phillies. But I sure would not bet money on the Phillies wanting or getting Bellinger.
DarkSide830
Margot and Tapia, realistically, shouldnt cost more than a mid-range prospect, and KK is a salery dump.
Yankee Clipper
I’m really curious to see if Tapia and Laureano can repeat performances. Tapia was great last season and Ramon obviously had the PED issue.
If the A’s can sell high on Laureano, Olson, Chapman, the pitching trio? They’re looking at one of the top farms in the game, overnight, potentially. The quality they could obtain for that talent – sheesh.
They could practically alter the course of their farm just by trading Murphy, if they so desired, but I don’t see that one happening.
JoeBrady
Tapia was great last season
==============================
Tapia stunk last season. He had an OPS+ of 80 last year, and plays LF. At 400+ PAs, he was listed as #30 in LF by FG.
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
Yea but he hit .273 and stole 20 bases. Don’t you realize it’s 1985 and I only look at 5 stats.
AHH-Rox
Tapia is not a solid defender in CF. He has speed, but doesn’t judge balls well and can’t throw. That’s why the Rockies use him almost exclusively in LF, where he is average.
jett
@Joe & Dorothy I agree that the Phils need to pass the threshold to significantly improve. However, Middleton has shown no sign of doing that. Before the lockout, this was a winter similar to pre-Covid years and in each of those years prior, the Phils were very aggressive early in FA (signing Santana, McCutchen, & Wheeler in consecutive years). Until signing Knebel at the death of the signing period, they had no ML signings. That shows they were likely waiting to see the tax number post CBA before doing anything. After the owner ran his mouth about getting his f’n trophy back and stupid money. 2 teams in the division won WS titles, their terrible record v the Marlins cost them playoff spots the last 2 years, and the Mets got an owner who puts his money where his mouth is. They should have made a bigger splash before the lockout, or they should’ve blown it up.
DD can convince owners to spend. Middleton has said in a few words that if they can add a difference maker, they would entertain going over the tax. He would likely want to see if the team is in the playoff race first, likely any tax passing would happen in July, not the winter.
@Manny I do not know off hand or will I try to say what they can/would offer. What we can agree on is that none of those players are big difference makers and even with how poor of a system the Phillies have. None of those guys are fetching top prospects. So take Abel, Painter, & Stott off the list. Acquiring the catchers they did, likely means guys like Rickardo, Marchan, and maybe O’Hoppe can be moved (or at least 1 of them). Oakland & Tampa are good judges of young, controllable talent. There’s bound to be young prospects & cost control guys that those clubs would be interested in. If anything, I would always been calling clubs like Tampa to make shadow negotiations just to see what guys they like, this way I know who’s a keeper.
@ahh Tapia is more of a true LF, but Coors is huge and I’d argue route running is more important than speed there. In terms of square footage, CBP is one of the smallest CF in baseball. While he may not be an ideal fit there, CF would likely be more forgiving for him in Philly than in Denver.
Phillls
The Phillies have around the 4th highest payroll in baseball, yet people keep whining that Middleton won’t spend money lol.
VonPurpleHayes
They don’t have the foutth highest payroll anymore I believe, but your point is still valid. I think people get frustrated because he made the “maybe we’ll spend stupid money” comment, and never really followed through with it, but in his defense had the Phillies played better, I’m certain he would have spent to push them over the top. I do think the Phillies are a piece or two away from being a complete team, but the issue is the Braves are already there, the Mets just broke the bank to get there, and the Marlins have built a pretty talented squad as well. As JoeBrady pointed out, if the Phillies decide not to spend big, they’re giving up and wasting prime years of Harper, Wheeler and Realmuto. They need more pieces to win now.
Yankee Clipper
This may be stupid, but what about Bryant, if they’re willing to spend. He could solve a few issues, has played CF a little, and could rotate into CF when they need his bat there. They could then acquire a solid defensive guy to split time for later innings.
What ever happened to Mickey Moniak? I thought he was a pretty highly touted prospect, wasn’t he? I know that doesn’t translate to big-league performance but it seemed like he just fell into an abyss.
ctyank7
Monika was a high school standout whose body and skills did not continue develop from age 18 on. When a first overall selection is projected as a possible fourth or fifth outfielder, the pick can only be graded as an F
Yankee Clipper
Ctyank7: Merry Christmas! Oh wow, I didn’t realize he dropped that far. That’s the problem with heavy reliance on prospects (Yankees & Volpe/Peraza) is that there’s no way to truly tell in most circumstances. It’s a craps shoot. Thanks for the info.
jett
That assertion isn’t a bad one. Bryant isn’t a bad player but I think the lack of a major market for him shows teams feel he’s on the decline. Or at least, he’s not the star he used to be. I think if the Phillies were signing an “impact” FA, they’d likely want to invest money in someone whose not playing consistently out of position. If they signed Bryant, I’d assume they’d use him for LF instead. At least he doesn’t cost a pick to sign him, unlike Castellanos. However, if the DH does come over, it’s hard to argue he’s a clear better fit than someone like Schwarber given each player’s likely salary figure they’ll command.
Plus the Phillies will need to resign Nola and Hoskins as they’re both FA following 2023. So, they’ll need to be prudent with spending unless they say f it to the luxury tax.
Re Moniak, the issue was that Klentak took a gamble. In 2016, there wasn’t a consensus #1 overall pick by the scouting outlets. Klentak tried to be cute and intentionally went under slot at #1 so they could go into the supplemental and round 2 more aggressively. Moniak on a lot of boards was around the mid-teens in a lot of mocks (#11-16 is where I saw most). He was probably their highest rated player who was willing to sign below slot.
They then selected HS pitcher Kevin Gowdy with their next pick and went over slot for him. Gowdy was always hurt and barely pitched until this past year. He was included in the package that went to Texas along with Spencer Howard for Kennedy/Gibson at the deadline.
It was a shame cause Gowdy had v good stuff but was always hurt and was having surgeries on his elbow and shoulder. And everything from there is history, Atlanta had the #3 pick and took Ian Anderson. Just that one pick alone could alter the way the East looks a bit. And we know about Bryan Reynolds going #59 or #60 in that draft, Bo Bichette in round 4, etc.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Bryant is kicking himself for not taking that $200M+ extension offer from the Cubs after his MVP season. He won’t come close to that figure in FA this year and he would have been a FA in another 2-3 years from now had he taken that offer. Whoops!
JoeBrady
They then selected HS pitcher Kevin Gowdy with their next pick…
======================================
RHP in HS are notoriously bad draft picks.
JoeBrady
Same with Rizzo. I think some of these guys think they can continue to press the team for more money, and don’t believe that the team will allow them to walk. It was the same with Rizzo.
Peart of the game
I’d say perhaps trade for Kiermaier and sign Gardner. Gardner could be a very good 4th outfielder especially since his babip was abnormally low and has been for three seasons so proper babip regression towards league average would make a deal look like a steal.
DarkSide830
the Phillies have enough decent OF4 options at the moment.
Dorothy_Mantooth
As much as it pains me to say, Gardner would look good in a Phillies uniform. With regular playing time, he could probably reach 20 HRs again playing half his games in Philly.
VonPurpleHayes
Gardner is not a great option for the Phillies, and not much better than in-house options. I’m getting nauseous even thinking about it.
Yankee Clipper
We Yankees fans hear you, Von. I love Gardy…love his field play, his drive, his leadership, his attitude (mostly). But, man, it’s time to retire. I do see him moving to the Phillies as the only alternative option if the Yanks don’t take him back though, only because Joe G. loves him.
RicoD
KK would be the easiest solution, as he is the most actively shopped out of the CF solutions. I personally prefer Margot as he much cheaper, and more durable. He’s younger but both would be a 1 year rental.
Trading with the rays with an OF signing could go
Schwarber – Margot – Harper
Or
Castellanos – KK – Harper
Harder to pull but could be a great buy low solution is Robles. 3 years of team control, super young and could plug him in for the next few years.
ctyank7
Be careful: the last two years of Robles haven’t been much better than what we have seen from Moniak.
JoeBrady
I think Robles would be a good gamble. Unless something else is going on, he really shouldn’t be this bad. His floor should be somewhere around a .700 OPS with a really good glove, more or less what the Phillies would get with KK.
I think at worst, you shrug your shoulders and go ‘meh’, but there is also a chance he could revert to the top-10 prospects he once was,
geg42
The Phillies could have had Bryan Reynolds…he went 58 picks after Mickey Moniak.
Dorothy_Mantooth
@geg42 – I’m sure there is some sarcasm in your post but every other team in baseball could say the same thing about Reynolds, not to mention Arenado, Trout (18 other teams anyways), Judge (20+ teams passed on him), etc. There’s nothing harder than hitting on a traditional MLB Rule 4 draft pick as there is no such thing as a ‘can’t miss’ prospect in baseball. It’s much easier to find talent in the International Free Agency period than it is in the traditional first-year draft. Most international players are already playing in semi-professional leagues and are facing top talent on a daily basis, so they are much easier to evaluate even if they are only 16 years old at that time they are signed.
jett
I agree. However, I think his point is to really drive home how bad the Phillies drafted with Klentak making the selections. His first 3 picks were abject failures (Randolph, Moniak, & Haseley), his next pick was Bohm, who the jury is still out on. That year (2018), the scouts had 3 “elite” prospects in Mize, Bart, & Bohm. If anything you can only say that Klentak was wise enough to go with the consensus pick that was available. Those 4 drafts he had final say on the picks. In 2019 when they drafted Stott, Klentak didn’t have full power of the picks and that’s the first pick the scouting department had say on.
He was tasked with restocking the farm system and rebuilding internally. He failed to sign meaningful veteran guys he could flip, failed to move guys at peak value, made poor draft selections, and further gutted his system to save his job (trading Sixto Sanchez and other pieces for 1.5 years of Realmuto, etc.)
someoldguy
Twins Alex Kirilloff and Trevor Larnach .. outfield.. we didn’t see enough of Karloff.. and saw way to much of Lurch.. he isn’t capable of being an outfielder.. there is a Big : future DH if you are lucky sign around his neck… he is sluggish… and not in a good way.. Karloff .. he isn’t as stiff as Lurch or the Frankenstein monster… but he looks more like a decent 1st baseman… with the glove.. and for the right Pitching.. I’d bet anyone could be had from the Twins including prospects.. Hell Nick Gordon looked pretty good in CF considering he was thrown out there with no experience.. he got good jumps.. but his reads weren’t the best as you would expect… He is someone the Phillies could shoot for.. or go for Buxton… for the right prospect package.. and the twins have Gordon to take is place.. because without pitching the twins are sunk again.. as usual..
DarkSide830
would certainly be interested in Gordon. Adonis Medina is on the waiver wire – is that a reach?
someoldguy
The twins don’t need leavings.. they need to trade for low level pitching prospects with big potential.. bring them up young and temper them like in the good old days.. this waiting until they are proven .. is a fools game… because you used up all their trade value.. and 80% of them will be proven not Major league starters… I can’t count all the “potential” they have burned thru… but it is a lot of sure fire just wait… and the waited and waited and now they are in some other organization or country …
Dorothy_Mantooth
@Dark Side – Adonis Medina is already on the Phillies AAA roster, correct? Are you saying he’s potential trade bait for one of the Twins players, a potential option for Philly to promote to the majors this season, or did the Phillies waive him this offseason and you want them to re-sign him? I haven’t heard any news about him recently. If he is on the waiver wire, he can’t be dealt right now anyways if he was on the Phillies 40-man roster at the end of the 2021 season.
Spare Tire Dixon
Maybe the Giants would part with one of Duggar or Slater?
Jackie Bradley Jr. made sense, but he was already moved.
Kiermaier probably makes the most sense of those listed. I don’t see Philly giving up what it would take to get Mullins, Reynolds, or Marte.
jim stem
Free agency or trade? The Phils have nothing in their minor league system to deal. So unless they are moving Bohm, it’s going to be free agency and then they still need a 3b.
I could see them adding both Pillar and Villar, they saw enough of both to know what they are getting. Villar can man 3b if Bohm needs more time and Pillar can play every day. Then add a lefthanded outfield bat as 4th outfielder.
It’s not great, but like I said, Phils have nothing to trade unless they move Bohm. If they are going to compete, they need to keep Nola.
Yankee Clipper
They could move Bohm if they acquired Bryant and put KB back to his natural position. Just a thought. DD wouldn’t shy away from paying for a guy like KB.
jim stem
Looking at what’s still out there, I can see the Phils going after Joc Pederson. 3/35?
baseballhobo
Maybe give Herrera another shot on a minor league deal?
TheLawAbides
Sign Bryant, see if Bohm can play LF or trade him, give CF time to Moniak
Philly Fan Teeroy
Yonathon Daza or Steven Duggar could be cheap options as well.
Rsox
Neither is probably better than what they already have
ewitkows
You’d think the Brewers would listen if they asked about Cain. They could put Taylor in CF and find a 4th of
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Of all the names mentioned as the CF solution for the Phillies, I like Cody Bellinger the most. JMHO, but I believe injuries were the culprit for his down 2020 and dismal 2021.
Though grammatically incorrect, Gene Mauch was right when he said, “Good hitters eventually hit good!”.
Obviously LA won’t gift wrap him for the Phillies because the jury is still out on whether or not Gavin Lux can play CF, but I’d at least pick up the phone and ask LA, “What do you need for Bellinger?”.
Since our farm system is rated so poorly (5th from the bottom), it’s doubtful a collection of the players we’d like to move (Moniak, Haseley, Medina et al) would get it done.
Might have to offer Bryce Stott, supposedly our SS or 2B of the future. Stott, at some point, could be a Chris Taylor type player: Plug him in anywhere and he’ll do a commendable job.
Rsox
The problem is the Phillies don’t have enough in the farm system to keep Friedman and company on the phone.
It is amazing to me to see how CF has become such a black hole position around the league that there is such a need for even just decent Center Fielders.
DakotaJoe
Klentak will go down as one of the worst GMs in Phillies history. Ever since Theo Epstein had success as a young GM MLB teams have been enamored with young, analytic type guys. I’m not against analytics, but you need balance and experience. Being a good GM takes a combination of skill in drafting/making trades, having the right minor league guys in place to develop those picks and let’s face it – a little bit of luck. As it turns out Klentak failed on all counts and now after years of rebuilding the Phillies have a bottom five minor league system and not one of his draft picks has gotten close to making an all-star team. This franchise has been an embarrassment and are forced to make big FA signings while living on the edge of the luxury tax threshold just to be an average .500 team.
Phillls
Draft picks are a consensus of multiple front office personnel, not just the GM and the GM only. The GM does not scout players. That is the job of the scouting department, and the scouting director recommends who to pick. The GM and the others rely on the advice of the scouting director, since they do not scout players.
So many seem to think or want to think that it is the GM who scouts players, and he is the ONLY one who decides who to pick.
DakotaJoe
You’re correct, but the GM is responsible for the people who are around him. The bottom line is all the decisions come back to the GM regarding scouting, drafting and player development. This is why Klentak was justifiably let go.
JoeBrady
Kind of absurd, imho. I cannot imagine the president of my company saying that the company’s failure is not his fault, because his assistants stink.
Reuven
I’m calling it now … wait to see … Grichuk for Gregorius.
1 – Addresses each club’s needs – Phillies need a CM, and Grichuk has been very solid defensively in that position for the Jays (he makes few spectacular plays, but gets to the balls he should get to, and throws out the guys he should throw out); Jays need a left-hitting infielder, and were in on Gregorius before he signed with PHI.
2 – Similar performance arcs / age / bounceback potential – OPS+ in the last 4 seasons – 117-93-114-89 for Grichuk, 124-87-120-71 for Gregorius. Gregorius is a year and a half older, but has only played 131 more games, Grichuk hit better when he started regularly, which he’d get in PHI; at his age, a shift from SS to 2nd or 3rd might do Gregorius good, as will the protection he’d get hitting in the lineup the Jays can send out.
3 – Both players fit their new teams’ financial structure better – PHI has the financial muscle to spend close to the CBT, and Dombrowki historically has been itching to do that; they therefore care about AAV more than salary, and this deal frees up AAV for this year. Jays have the financial muscle to spend, but not unlimitedly and likely not to the CBT, and need to be wary of their future salary, and while this adds 5M to their 22′ payroll, it takes Grichuk off the 23′ books to make extra room for what will be a nasty arbitration class.
4 – Frees both teams up to make additional moves they want / need to make – Jays have been rumored in on Suzuki, and even if not, addressing their infield need while only adding 5M to their salary and costing no prospect capital frees them up to use the bulk of these resources on other needs (to use the 30M exercises another article here did a few days ago, this move would leave them just enough room for Kenley Jansen + Kikuchi or Sonny Gray, for example ). As for the Phillies – if Dombrowski is itching to make a statement splash, this makes it more easy for him to go after one of the remaining FA shortstops.
Adam12
Jake Marisnick??
stymeedone
Waiting to see if the Tigers get an offer on one of their young CFs. Greene is likely to have the starting job this year which allows them to trade one of Reyes, Cameron or Hill. They may each have questions about their offensive game, but all are solid CFs, who may actually develop with the bat. Plus all are cheaper than what’s being suggested here.
cpdpoet
Weird feeling….with out the lockout, this post NEVER would have happened……I got to see Randolph, Moniak, Haseley posts……Not saying MLBTR is biased, just cool to see a long winded post about Philly……….Guys this reader appreciates you everyday!
And hey that other “bust” Jahlyn Ortiz had an ok campaign……
Bob333
Almost anyone one is better than what we have or had last year.
Stan the Man
Phillies are in a position where they need to go all in and go over the luxury tax if they want to be a real contender. One scenario would be to start by signing free agents pitchers C. Rodon, R. Tepara and A. Chafin which would give them a top rotation and solid bullpen. Sign K. Bryant and K. Schwarber and then give their best shot at trading for B. Reynolds by offering (just for giggles) A.Bohm, A. Painter, A. Haseley, M. Moniak and C. Randolf a first ever five first rounders trade. Heck, if that’s not enough, the Pirates can have their pick of any other prospect not named Stott, Abel or Crouse. This would be a dream team sure to fill/break “The Bank”…