Before he signed a two-year, $50MM deal to return to the Astros, the Yankees made a decent push to sign veteran righty Justin Verlander. The Yankees offered Verlander $25MM for 2022, but they did not offer a second season, per Jon Heyman of the MLB Network (via Twitter). Verlander ultimately got $25MM a year for two years with an opt-out from the Astros.
Though Verlander has made just one start in the past two seasons, the 8-time All-Star won the American League Cy Young award the last time he was healthy for a full season, leading the Astros to an American League pennant. $25MM is no paltry sum, but as a one-year deal, signing Verlander would have been a relatively low-risk move for New York.
Without Verlander, the Yankees are still on the lookout for more rotation help. As of now, their rotation consists of Gerrit Cole, Jordan Montgomery, and a host of less certain options. Luis Severino should be a solid third arm if he’s able to stay healthy, and Nestor Cortes Jr. put together a pretty convincing run at the end of the 2021 season. Domingo German and Jameson Taillon are veterans with question marks who are capable of adding value from the rotation – though you might not be totally comfortable banking on a full season from either.
Meanwhile, the Yanks will again hope that their younger arms are able to establish themselves as contributors. Deivi Garcia, Luis Gil, Clarke Schmidt, Luis Medina, and Michael King are all on the 40-man roster and could compete for bulk innings roles. Garcia is the most popular name in that bunch after a heartening six starts in 2020, he took a step back last year, pitching to a 6.48 ERA/4.85 FIP across 90 2/3 innings in Triple-A while making just two starts in the Majors.
Imagine if Kershaw went to the Yankees.
Imagine if Kershaw went to the Astros
or Giants?
Or the Nippon Ham Fighters
Imagine if Kershaw stays with the Dodgers.
FWIW – I think the Yanks made the right decision. I can see assuming the risk for one year, but not for two.
Sometimes you have to be creative. The proem with NY had they given the extra year is Judge next year and not knowing the new CBA.
Or the Deluth Corn Canners of the Iowa Beer League Softball Association
Imagine if he gets hurt…wait…he’s getting hurt regularly the last few years. Why is everyone confused…players want the chance to make as much money as possible..why don’t teams get to walk away from ‘loyalty’ when the player can no longer stay healthy .
I agree with you Fever Pitch Guy… I’m totally fine with the Yankees not going to 2 years.
@madjob33
Another fan more interested in protecting the billionaires wealth then the millionaires who are the actual talent.
The players have a collective bargaining agreement that both sides agreed to which guarantees contracts.
Why should the player endure all the risk? They throw 100mph and with the spin rates apply tremendous stress on their elbows and shoulders.
In the early years of their careers, regardless of how great they may be, their salaries are suppressed. Eventually they get to where they can dictate the terms and negotiate for top dollars which no owner has to agree to unless they think it’s in their best interests.
The players are the best in the world and generate many billions in revenue. They should he paid accordingly.
No one suggested not honoring a contract. What was suggested is a team, say the Dodgers, not being obligated to a player who can no longer perform at prior levels, say Kershaw, when he no longer has a contract, but wants to continue playing. Its always a bad look if the team, say Seattle, walks away from the player, say Seagar, no matter how much the performance has deteriorated.
He’s had one huge injury that he’s apparently fully recovered from;,that’s not “getting hurt regularly.”
Could happen
Kershaw should just stay with the Dodgers his whole career if it’s possible. If he leaves there is a good chance he’ll destroy his legacy.
This makes no sense. Guys change teams all the time. If anything Verlander’s “legacy” improved by him changing teams.
Reggie Jackson is a great example of that.
Not really. Reggie was in his prime and already a star when he was traded to Baltimore prior to joining the Yankees ass a free agent. Becoming a Yankee just allowed him to continue his HOF journey. Had there not been free agency. Oakland would perhaps have been considered the greatest team ever after the Murderer’s Row Yankees. Three straight WS championships and then the 75 AL loss to Boston before the team was split up I. 76.
Agree to disagree. It wasn’t until he went to the Yankees that he was dubbed “Mr. October” and it hit 3 home runs in one World Series game.
Never understood that beyond being a media thing in THE major market. The guy hit over 25 homers for the A’s dynasty teams each year and had almost double the number of homers he did for Oakland than he did for NY. But you’re right that he had that moniker. Just think he gained it doing what he always did on a bigger, brighter stage
Valid point, Tiredoldude.
As a Yankee, Reggie was almost bigger than the game. He had a national candy bar, was doing national ads selling televisions, and was of course Mr. October.
That candy bar was bad though. I remember how disappointed I was when I first tried one.
Dude, that was a totally delicious candy bar. Last place I bought one was at the local 7-11 in the mid-nineties. Couldn’t find them anywhere else, they probably found a couple of old cases somewhere and threw them on the shelf lol
I never tried them when they came back out in the 90s. I had to eat so many when they first came out. My grandmother knew I was a Yankees fan so she would always buy them for me and I didn’t want to hurt her feelings so I would thank her and tell her how much I liked them.
I bought enough of them I sent in for the free Reggie Poster! Oh heck yes!
Vastly under rated club. Those A’s teams were stacked.
Loaded and free spirits. What a fun team that was to watch
Oakland A’s were the best team of that Era.
Cincy Reds also.
Reggie Jackson had his best years in Oakland …3 Straight World Series Titles. A team loaded with Hall of Famers
One game that could have happened in Oakkànd had the team stayed together. Look at the moon shot he hit in Tiger Stadium at the all star game. He was already a prime time star. Obviously hitting three home runs on three pitches in the WS in NY cemented things.
Those against the mid 70s Reds would have been fun. we only got to see it once. Could have been historically special if free agency hadn’t happened when it did.
just agreed. sorry I responded before seeing your post SportsFan.
Note to the “you can’t winning by hitting home runs in October” fellas. Reggie became Mr October by hitting 3 consecutive jacks. Not 3 singles.
Max Scherzer comes to mind going to from Detroit to the Nationals and seemingly getting even better. What’s really impressive is Max doesn’t have quite the mph on his fastball he once had but is still elite. Hopefully his “dead arm” comes back to normal. I think that was a terrible decision by Dave Roberts to use Max in relief. Greinke has bounced around quite a bit since the Royals and has had a pretty solid career as well.
Reggie Jackson in the Postseason
With Oak – 118 ab .271 avg 5 hr 15 rbi
With NYY – 119 ab .327 avg 12 hr 29 rbi
By no means was he a slouch with the A’s but he clearly earned the moniker with his Yankees postseason appearances.
Lol his legacy is secure. The most dominant pitcher of the last decade
Not sure of the numbers, but my gut tells me Scherzer was better.
He’s been great but not better than kershaw
Use whatever time window you want, but Kershaw was the best pitcher in baseball for several years. And going to the Yankees would do absolutely nothing to tarnish his legacy.
Kershaw was his generation’s Koufax/Gibson/Pedro
@Cincyfan85
Both have had outstanding careers but in my opinion few pitchers in the past 50 years have a resume comparable to Kershaw.
Pedro ??, Maddox, Koufax, Randy Johnson, Ryan, Shertzer, Gibson, Carlton, Seaver are a few off the top of my head who were pretty damn amazing and no doubt I’m missing some.
It would be very risky especially with the Yankees questionable defense and that short minor league RF fence where fly ball easy outs in most stadiums pop out and are home runs in RF.
Yeah. Who ever heard of Reggie Jackson after he left Oakland and babe Ruth after Boston sold him?
A-Rod
Clemens
Verlander
Frank Robinson
Ricky Henderson
Willie Mays
Tom Brady
Wayne Gretzky
Joe Montana
3/4 of the NBA
And a never ending list of others.
Nice List but take Clemens out for cheating (or add Bonds). The one who did add substantially if that was possible was Brady simply because he did it without BB.
Brady and the Pats cheated with sign stealing and various schemes…
They were caught and just received a slap on their hands,
Kershaw certainly wouldn’t look normal beyond Dodger Blue. That being said, moving on before further regression might help his Dodger career narrative.
@Yankee-4-Lifer 75 Kershaw’s legacy is well-cemented. If he chooses to play for the Baltimore Orioles and be a two-way player like Ohtani, it wouldn’t change the way his peers and fans view him.
Kershaw has cemented his legacy as one of top pitchers of his Era. He was also always b associated with being a Dodger. Well it would be nice to look back and only remember him in a Dodger uniform, leaving for another team will in no way diminish what he has accomplished at this point.
I mean Ty Cobb played out the end of his career with the Philadelphia A’s and is still remembered as a Tiger
It strikes me that people who gush about ageing stars going to storied franchises are investing more in fantasy baseball, not in the game played on the field.
Depends on the star. Some got a couple of good seasons left.
Kershaws better days are behind him he’s done
There’s a whole lot of room between “his better days are behind him” and “he’s done”. He’s pretty much at Berrios level which is a comedown from where he was but still slots in at #3 or better on almost every team in MLB.
Imagine if the Yankees bought out the whole team that beat them in two separate ALCS?
Imagine if Kershaw were healthy? Well that ain’t going to happen so the Yankees should go all out and sign him. He would fit right in with their list of always injured overpaid lineup. Plus Kershaw could do the usual Kershaw Yankees choke job in the playoffs
Imagine of Kershaw went to the IL
Kershaw would not go to the Yankees.
Also, this is not the Kershaw who dominated the NL for years.
This version of Kershaw is older, injury prone and does not have
the stuff that the younger Kershaw had..
This version of Kershaw is a #3-#5 Starter on a pennant contender.
Unfortunately, he doesn’t want to be paid like that #3-5 starter.
The Dodgers would “overpay” Kershaw for past performance and just to retire him in a Dodgers uni
no state/city income tax
You also don’t make as much
And higher property taxes to make up for it.
All I can think of is….hahhahhahahahaha
I’d turn the Yankees down for anything less than 40 million, the facial hair on my face is worth that alone
One year I would have been absolutely fine with. But two years? With Verlander’s age and him coming off a surgery plus no playing time in more than a year? No thanks, that’s $50 MM better spent elsewhere.
Cashman absolutely made the right decision here.
@PinstripedPride- I actually disagree. I definitely feel with 2 years of Verlander the Yankees get at least 1 ring. I think any Yankee’s fan would sign up for that right now.
Past performance is not indicative of future results, not at his age with his injury history.
2 injuries in 16 years is a history now?
What injury history? He’s pitched 30+ games 13 out of his like 16 seasons
What’s the most innings a guy 37 or older has logged coming off of TJ the rest of his career? Do you know it’s less than 200?
Fever you sound like a personal injury law firm ad.
Tommy John at this stage of his career is a history in of itself
Illegitimate – You’ve mistaken the term “injury history” to mean several injuries.
It does not.
I’ve had one injury in my life. If a doctor or anyone else wants to know my injury history, I’m going to tell them about the one injury.
The only time someone does NOT have an injury history, is if they’ve been lucky enough to not have had any injuries.
How many pitchers, any age, pitched 200 innings last year? Guess no pitcher available meets your requirements.
Correa?
Yankee-4, no player guarantees a championship. Ever.
@gbs42- no one except for Michael Jordan.
Jordan still had to play. Also, no team was structured in a manner that was fully capable of taking advantage of the Bulls weakness except the Rockets, whom they never played in the finals.
That’s true. Look at the Washington Wizards. Oh wait … Damn you are wrong once again.
@Darryl Rose- only you would be watching Michael Jordan when he was playing for the Wizards…lol
@Yankee-4-Lifer 75
How does that comment make any sense? You don’t know me and I don’t watch the NBA. But even if I did it’s idiotic.
You said Michael Jordan guarantees a championship. I pointed out you were once again wrong as you were about Kershaw’s legacy.
So now you are 3 for 3 in just not making any sense.
You believe the election was stolen dont you? And the earth is flat.
@Darryl Rose- got a great idea. How about stop trolling and get a life? Newsflash: Nobody likes you.
You’re trolling one another by using Michael Jordan to support your argument. It’s a totally unrelated sport with five men on the floor.
I agree with him. Bringing up Jordan wasn’t relevant or smart.
I also agree with your initial comment. Verlander likely makes the Yankees better and locks them into the playoffs.
George Steinbrenner wouldn’t hesitate to ink Verlander.
Hal Steinbrenner is a bean counter.
Cashman needs to take a course in MLB “Roster construction”.
Yankees are a beer league softball team with bad defense at many positions.
Good way to wear out your starters and bullpen..
Pride – I don’t have the confidence in Verlander that others seem to have. Like you said, coming off TJ surgery at his age would be a risky, and for any amount. $25MM for one year is too risky for my taste. I guess I am just too conservative with money. Don’t get me wrong, I hope Verlander finds success, but I seriously have my doubts.
If you pull up Justin Verlanders stats on baseball reference or fan graphs you’ll notice he’s been a solid starter with almost ZERO injury history to speak of in his career
I’d argue that the second year he’s likely to be a better pitcher. Most guys take a while to get all the way back after TJ.
PSP: I agree with you. But, I agree with Y4L as well. Verlander, especially in his second year, would provide much needed pitching support for a WS run. But, $50MM is better spent elsewhere right now. In fact, that could pay for 80% of Starling Marte to patrol CF for 4 years, or 50% of 6 years of Baez/Story.
Risks must be taken, and under the right circumstances Verlander is worth that risk. However, Cashman’s Beane-ball roster construction has placed us in a position where the allocation of those dollars truly matter, because Hal’s bank accounts severely limit spending.
Time will tell if the Astros were wise with their money. If you’re going to bet on anybody, JV would be the one to bet. We shall see
The Astros medical staff and pitching coaches know Verlander’s current condition better than anyone……including – remarkably – the posters on this board.
The Astros regime under the current owner doesn’t make many reaches and squander money. No guarantees in life, but that organization stays within their budget and their track record is excellent.
Glad they missed out on Verlander. Of the other 9 players of 37 years old or older that had TJ, only Arthur Rhodes had any success. That’s just not good odds regardless of how awesome Verlander has been in the past.
Did those guys have success before tj surgery?
The thing about Verlander is mechanically, he is about as perfect as you can get. That’s why has only had 1 injury in his entire career until now. He is a different beast physically, so I will gladly put my money on JV to come back dominant.
@ Chipper, yes! JV is as close to a “master of his craft” as an MLB pitcher can be. And, I am certain he has put as much work into his rehab as is possible. If I was a bettin’ man, I’d bet he’s got minimally 2-3 good years left in him, if not more.
Chipper, Verlander has a better chance than most but 2 years and 50 million is too much of a gamble.
The fans don’t see it that way because they don’t have any idea what a budget is. They legitimately think if you spend the most money on each player every year the team would win every single year. Fans are dumb.
I don’t know how successful he’s going to be but if I was running a team and the precedent for 37 year old pitchers coming off TJ is 176 innings I probably wouldn’t gamble the 25 million. His agent and him were smart though, be one of the first to sign while lots of teams have money. Don’t wanna be the guy with injury concerns late in the offseason looking for too dollar in my opinion.
Joe: Especially with our existing needs, that money cannot be spent on Verlander. SS, CF, C, and we could pick up two healthy #4 pitchers for that price (See DeSclafani / Wood, etc). Too much given our current status.
Yeah, you can go get Correa.
Goastros: Noooooooooo! Pretty please, with a cherry on top, but him back before we make that kind of mistake?
I’m mostly joking with you, Yankee Clipper.
I know, my friend. You’re one of the good ones on here.
Yankees screwed this up, just like they did at the trade deadline when JV was available
It makes total sense to trade for a pitcher recovering from TJ surgery who won’t be helping a team in any whatsoever way. The Yankees should’ve traded for Thor too.
@YankeesBleacherCreature
There is no trade. They are free agents. The point of rolling the dice is you are buying past proven success at a relatively low price. If they were 100% healthy they may cost $40 million.
It’s a risk reward tradeoff.
What are you talking about? When JV was available for trade he was healthy and on the tigers before the Astro’s traded for him
Excuse me ma’am, do you understand what Free Agency is? I realize it’s relatively new concept.
Once the Astros offered basically $50M guaranteed without him throwing a pitch, with the ability to walk away as a free agent after one year, it was clear Verlander had very strong interest in the market. I wouldn’t bet against him, but it’s a pricey gamble.
He definitely threw a pitch. He had a showcase and was throwing gas
Didn’t the report say he was hitting 96? If he’s hitting 96 in a showcase, then I’m sure when the lights turn on and the fans show up he’s still got a crips hundo in the tank.
I wouldn’t bet against him but I sure wouldn’t bet 50 million on him given the other options.
Emac: That is brilliantly succinct. That is an excellent summation of the argument against JV.
Don’t get me wrong I can’t stand Verlander, but there’s no denying his talent. If your going to gamble on signing a guy for 2 years at 39 coming off reconstruction surgery he’s definitely the pitcher you want.
good for them for not coming anywhere near close I guess?
Damn, 1 title in 21 years and the Yankees are lowballing a HOFer in his late prime?
Wow…..
Hahahahaha. Late prime. That’s a stretch considering the last 2 seasons.
A’s one title in over 30 years AND about to be kicked out of the city they play in. It would suck to be a fan of theirs.
“It would suck to be a fan of [the A’s.]”
Indeed – I’m sure it’s not easy being one of their 28 remaining fans.
As we say in the Bay Area, “You can’t spell ‘apathy’ without the A’s.”
If they get “kicked out” of Oakland, that would be the best thing for their franchise, and a great thing for baseball in general.
Next, The Rays needs to be “kicked out” of TB and thrown to a city that will give a dam about their baseball team.
@A’sfaninUK- that’s really funny when was the last time your glorious precious A’s won the World Series? Umm
What’s the difference in payroll the last 10 years vs the amount of Championships?
Wanker.
Culturally appropriate, Rob.
Rob, I think your response is completely underrated. Then Ducky doubled down.
Very nice gentlemen, very nice.
“Late prime” is about the dumbest comment I’ve read thus far.
So much for the Yankees not caring about money .. Only willing to offer 1 year says enough.
@Mario93- at 39 years of age the Yankees probably thought it wasn’t worth it. I say offer Max Scherzer $120-125 million for 3 years and see if he signs in NY. Mad Max claims he doesn’t want to sign here.
Higher taxes & probably a higher cost of living. 2 years at double the rate definitely appealed to Verlander to stay in Houston.
I would have used the Verlander money to keep Correa because you made the WS without Verlander but it’s going to look bad if Verlander is injured or not as effective and you don’t have Correa.
Except the Verlander money is only a small fraction of what it would cost to keep Correa.
25 mil vs 30 to 35 mil AAV not that big of a difference. But hey all I can say is what the production of each player turn out to be and IMO Corrrea is the safer bet for 2022.
I dont think Click & the Astros are comfortable paying out $300mil to any player. There is a few FA SSs that can he signed for way less.
Correa wants 10 years and $38m, signing JV for $50m is big difference.
Assessing the overall situation with the Yankees it makes perfect sense they would go after Verlander and/or Kershaw on short deals of 2 years or less. The roster is older with several players on the wrong side of 30 with several others at or approaching 30. The window of opportunity with the current roster is likely closing quickly so it is prudent they would “strike while the iron’s hot.” Cashman is in the last year of his contract and by the tone of Hal Steinbrenner’s comments on Cashman’s contract, if you read between the lines, it sounds like it is “win or else.”
@kenphelps44- Nah the guy to sign short term is definitely Scherzer on a 2 year contract with an option. We can definitely see that age has not slowed him down yet. No reason why he can’t be an ace for anyone for the next 2 or 3 years.
I don’t understand offering a pitcher returning from TJ surgery a one year deal. Everyone knows it is the 2nd year after they return that they usually return to full form. If you’re going to take the chance on a pitcher coming back from the injury, why wouldn’t you want to ensure you get that 2nd year that is likely to be their better season. Offer them a 2 year deal or don’t offer them at all. 1 year deals don’t make sense in this scenario.
He’s 39 next season with a ton of past mileage. If he was 29, I’d agree with you wholeheartedly.
Nolan Ryan signed with Texas when he was 42. His first 3 years were exceptional (239, 204 and 173 IP). He slowed down to pitch only 157 innings with a 3.72 ERA at age 45, and completely fell apart at age 46 where he only pitched 66 innings with a 4.88 ERA……which would easily get him a $8-12m contract today.
Yes, I know that Ryan was a great pitcher in his era and kept himself in shape. Then again, the same can be said for Verlander. And medical science today in working with professional baseball players is night and day to when Ryan retired 28 years ago.
These two pitchers aren’t the same. Nolan Ryan was an anomaly and a total freak. Ryan’s 5400 vs JV’s 3000 IP isn’t even close. He may indeed have a few more years left in him but I’m not betting money on him pitching until 46 averaging 150+ innings a year.
As I wrote – Nolan was a great pitcher in his era. Verlander is in his.
I don’t expect Verlander to pitch into his mid-40’s. But pitching at 40 in todays environment is not that much of a stretch – especially with a guy that keeps himself up physically (and via nutrition) along with using state-of-the-art equipment and methodologies which the Astros taught him and continue to make advancements in. His career was literally in shambles when the Astros acquired him.
People here are saying the Max is worth $40m a year for 2-3 years. I see no reason why Verlander is not worth $25m for one and maybe 2. Especially when Syndergaard got the same $25m for one year (with other teams supposedly offering that amount) and he’s pitched something like 2 innings in 2 years.
Suffice to say, the Astros did a lot of medical research on Verlander before extending an offer like this.
Samuel: As YBC noted, comparing Ryan to Verlander, although I understand your attempted general analogy, is not a very good analogy. To say Ryan was a great pitcher in his era, Verlander in his, is considerably understating Ryan’s position as one of , if not the, greatest pitcher ever – in any era. Verlander isn’t even close.
Plus, Verlander is coming off TJS while at 40, Ryan was still throwing 98 through 9 innings. I think Max Scherzer is a more comparable pitcher right now, but still doesn’t even broach the Ryan-class discussion.
I did not compare Verlander’s production to that of Ryan. What I did compare him to was their longevity. It’s the other guy that took my words and twisted them to be a “Ryan-class discussion”.
As for TJS, in Ryan’s day very few had it done. Today it’s commonplace – something that speaks poorly of what MLB FO’s have done to pitchers with their batters hitting endless foul balls so the pitchers have to do more and more unnatural things when throwing the ball to get strike three.
The Astros are one of the most – if not the most – technically advanced organizations in MLB. They knew what they were doing.
As far as NYC baseball fans on here go – anytime a player leaves the Yankees or Mets for another, you all resort to backstabbing. Doing it to Syndergaard under another article. This article notes that the Yankees offered Verlander the same salary, only for one year. If he had signed with the Yankees would you people be posting how dumb it was to sign him? Furthermore, the risks of coming back from TJS are far higher in the 1st year, than the 2nd. Yet supposedly the Yankees were willing to take them.
All spin all the time.
@Samuel
Nice revisionist history. Verlander has always had a solid work out regiman, which Scherzer learned while they were together in Detroit. As for his career being in “shambles”, he had just finish 2nd in the Cy Young voting, failing to beat out former Teammate Rick Porcello, because 2 writers left him off their ballots entirely. The only thing he picked up in Houston was how to use spidertack.
Samuel: As usual, you resort to insulting Yankees fans (and other fans) who simply point out the flaw in your argument. I understand what you’re saying, but you’re using Nolan Ryan to justify why Verlander is worth two years $50MM. It’s not a good basis when the two are incomparable.
It’s like saying you can safely buy a Yugo with 100k miles because your Honda has 150k. It simply makes no sense.
@Samuel
“As far as NYC baseball fans on here go – anytime a player leaves the Yankees or Mets for another, you all resort to backstabbin..”
******************************************
I don’t know what you’re reading. There has been plenty of beloved players on the Yankees – Nick Swisher, Curtis Granderson, Didi, Cano, etc. – whom have left the Yankees via FA and fans have wished them all well. That is the prevalent sentiment. I also don’t see anyone trashing Thor. The debate was always about whether he would accept his Q.O. or not. His talent and value was never in question. The spin is all inside your head, sir.
@Samuel … Examples please.
I can think of many Yankees who left and the sentiment was – good for him I hope he gets a fresh start.
The latest example being Clint Frasier.
Many of us hope he gets a chance to play and be successful.
Yes there are examples of players coming here and underperforming and the sentiment is to say good riddance. That’s true of any fan bases.
Example Sonny Gray. Most of us were glad to see him leave but I certainly don’t resent him for performing well in Cincinnati. Good for him!!!
These players are living out a childhood dream. I’m happy they get to achieve success elsewhere if it doesn’t happen in New York.
I don’t care if Heany wins a Cy Young with LA. I’m just happy he is gone.
With a brand new elbow. The mileage just got turned back to zero.
I believe absolutely none of these post-hoc “offers” GMs “claim” to make. Pretty easy for Mike Elias (Baltimore) to whisper in Heyman’s ear that he offered a player the same deal (or slightly less) that the player got someone else.
@Mario93. No team can get everyone. Who else made an offer for Verlander?
And by what logic can the Yankees assume they only had to match Houston to get him?
Uprooting his family, different tax structure, leaving the team he knew … All of these factors and many more go into deciding on where to play.
And sometimes you need to know when to walk away. The Yankees have many priorities and they can’t back up a wheelbarrow of cash to everyone.
Texas are reportedly wanting to spend money now. Where is your criticism of them? Verlander could have stayed in the same state.
Which is a bigger gamble Verlander @2 for 50 million or Mad Max @3 for 90? Estimates are that Max may even get more thanthat per year. Gotta wonder how many bullhead has left.
@Bill Kane- I definitely feel that Mad Max has proven that he is a $40 million dollar a year pitcher. Who has pitched better than him?
Dodgers failed when lacking Kershaw and Bauer in the playoffs. Never a good plan to count on pitchers with injury history being available for mound time after game 162. Kinda glad Verlander didn’t sign. Let’s get Ray!
Yankees still would’ve been first round exits in the ALDS even if they signed him. Their pitching isn’t the problem, it’s their anemic home run-or-nothing offensive philosophy. Hopefully firing Thames makes the team wake up offensively. Small ball wins games (bunting, base stealing, line drives, etc); not swinging for the fences.
Stanton and Judge are the only trusted players in the playoffs. If it wasn’t for the Red Monster, Stanton would’ve had 2 or 3 home runs in the WC Game.
Cashman needs to stop signing injury-prone veteran pitchers like Kluber. He was done half way through the season. Trade Torres, Voit, and Dominguez for Luis Castillo at the bare minimum.
Verlander would have almost made more $ taking the qualifying offer to stay in Texas over the 25 million ny offered.
Verlander obviously didn’t want to come to NY and just made Houston match offer and add additional year.
This is a blessing in disguise. IF they go after an ace-type pitcher it should be Scherzer.
@mlbnyyfan
Lol. We have no way of knowing that because it wasn’t a matched offer. Houston made a substantially better offer.
This was not apples to apples so he chose Houston.
I think Gill is going to be real food.
In some cultures, they already eat the entire fish including entrails for soup.
The Yankees need a real number 2.. Robbie Ray or Max Scherzer or the could hope that Sevy finally reaches his potential. A ss and Sp are all we need to finish off the Nl streak of winning World Series
Win your division first. Starting to sound like White Sox fans.
Imagine if Kershaw went to the KT Wiz of the KBO!!
If I was the Yanks, I’ll prioritize a SS, a CF and a better C behind the dish. Then, pull off a trade with the A’s for Montas/Olson and let Rizzo walk. Marte, Baez and Pérez would be ideal for them.
Send Garcia, Andujar, Urshela and some of the other pitching prospects to the A’s for those 2. I’m sure the A’s will love those player who are MLB ready with some up and downs, but at least had some success.
@to4 I’m a Yankees fan and that trade proposal certainly wouldn’t get it done.
Garcia was brutal last year.
Andujar has done nothing in several years and is horrible defensively.
Urshela isn’t needed. They have Chapman and Urshela is just decent at best. He’s solid defensively and below average offensively.
As for letting Rizzo walk … He’s a free agent. He already walked. The Yankees have zero control over him.
It would take numerous very high quality prospects to get Oakland’s interest as well as cost controlled MLB assets.
Yes, I agree with Rose. That’s seriously undervaluing the A’s valuation of Olson. Personally, I think Olson is the least of our worries. We need:
1- SS (given the estimates, I say Story/Baez so we can effectively fill other voids)
2- CF (Marte)
3- C (If we are trading good prospects, it needs to be for the rarest talent in MLB – a good catcher on both sides of the ball)
4- Judge extension
5- SP (Max, or drop levels and get DeSclafani/Wood for low-middle rotation help)
6- Olson (We won’t be able to do this if we accomplish what we want above and want to keep any semblance of a farm system in tact)
@Clip
It’s probably ridiculous but how about this 3-way:
Torres and Ian Happ to the Dodgers
Bellinger and Voit to the Cubs
Contreras to the Yankees
Sherm, that’s giving up 3 years of Voit and 3 years of Torres for one year of Contraras.
I know – but it was relative to “need” and “need now.”
Yanks would need to extend Contreras but he solves SO many problems for them. He’s the true “both sides of the ball” solution.
Cubs are trying to fast forward a rebuild.
Dodgers get MLB players for Belli, who likely needs a change of scenery anyway (or another year to get fully healthy)
Anyway, if the Cubs don’t extend Contreras, he’s going to be expensive.
My $0.02. I’m wrong a lot. Fun to throw ideas around, though.
Sherm, it’s funny you bring him up because that’s exactly who I had in mind. I don’t know if that deal would be enough without prospects (specifically pitching) to Cubbies because they know what they have in Contreras. Even though that’s giving up a LOT of control (and youth in Torres’ case) already, as Joe pointed out.
We would be giving up a lot, but we could also backfill those positions without too much difficulty. The biggest Yankees challenge has obviously been their unwillingness to take the necessary steps to fill their obvious voids properly.
Not much of an answer, except to say I’m on board with spending prospect / MLB capital to get Contreras as long as we can work out an extension as a condition of the trade.
I feel that C is such an important position on the diamond that we are going to have a difficult time winning a WS without a true starting C.
Right – and “years of control” (as important as they are) don’t win championships by themselves.
Contreras would be a nice addition to the Yankees and if they add a SS/1B, Torres and DJ create an extra body and DJ is the better fielding second baseman.
Having him as a floater utility player is a luxury few can afford.
And I know there’s a lot of ifs there and only time will tell how aggressive Cashman is. He won’t fill all holes and they have plenty of needs/wants:
SS
CF
1B
C
And of course one can never have too much pitching.
This reminds me of the year Machado and Harper were available. Yankee fans were split on which they needed the most and others thought get both. And the Yankees had little desire for either but hey we got to debate it hourly for months.
Strength up the middle, which is a hallmark of highly successful teams, starts at the catching position…..would trade Torres for Contreras in a heartbeat….second baseman are plentiful, and the courts still out on whether Torres will be the same player in the future he was in 2018.
The gamble is worth it!
That’s the price you pay when you wait to long to address a need and wait until your prospects value goes down.
Could have signed realmoto or grandal and traded Torres and Sanchez when their value was through the roof.
1. Free agent
2. Free agent
3. Trade
4. Money
5. Money
6. Trade
I agree Olson is near the bottom but the only reason I’d sign a starter is to free up some young starters to use in trades.
If a catcher is all we trade for and we do sign several free agents we might have enough for Olson without hitting the key guys in the minors.
@emac22
Well aren’t you a brilliant GM with the benefit of hindsight.
Torres was at his peak when he was 22 and hit 38 home runs. No one trades that unless they, like you, have a crystal ball.
Are Acuna, Soto or Tatis about to be traded?
Of course if they get hit by a bus you’ll be running on here stating how the team screwed up by not trading them.
You think recognizing a players defensive ceiling is magic?
Did you think Sanchez was going to be an elite defensive catcher?
If Cashman can’t assess players until he gives them a season or two in the majors WTF is he doing with that job?
You can’t collect bad defensive players all day long and then act surprised when they don’t become championship level defenders.
You can’t watch Sanchez play for years and not notice there is a problem.
But yes. I am an excellent GM with hindsight in addition to being smart enough to have recognized where this was going before we crashed into the wall.. Wake me up when you have the confidence to be upset with your own team and suggest they should have done something different.
A healthy Severino is more than “a solid third arm”. He’d be an Ace on most teams.
Typical Yankee and Cashman “low ball otter”.
Yankees have lost out of Verlander multiple times because
they think every free agent or trading partner should just take the
terms that they dictate?!
Yankees low balled the Tigers on Verlander and he went to the Astros.
Yankees low balled Verlander and he returned to the Astros.
All they had to do was add an option year or two and they get this guy.
Good luck filling in the rotation with Deivi Cruz or Schmitt or some other low end free agent pitcher out of the recycling bin…
He’s never going to sign anyone good tendering otters
I think Cash may have been on to something TBH. Otters are tenacious defenders of their turf. And let’s be honest the thought of JV going ballistic when a 2 out runners on 2nd and 3rd slider pinballs off the backstop because Sanchez was mesmerized by a shiny hot dog wrapper blowing down the left-field line, is just too scrumptious.
Greenmonster: I had to laugh at the Sanchez-hot dog reference. Thank you for that.
@SportsFan0000
Typical sports fan.
– I hate the Yankees they pay outrageous amounts and buy everyone.
– I hate the Yankees they make low ball offers and refuse to go higher.
Lmao. So which is it people?
Even though their budget is higher than most they still operate within a budget. They have many needs and can’t fullfil them all so Cashman internally determines what they are willing to pay, make the offer and if the player gets more elsewhere so be it. Move on to the next need.
Did other teams offer Verlander $50 million? Where is your hate for them?
Would $50 million have been enough? Why would he leave his home if the Yankees only matched Houston? Maybe it would have taken $60 million and why take that risk if you are the Yankees?
I honestly thought Verlander would sign with the Yankees. I didn’t rule out the Astros though.
The Yankees are a team equivalent of an old washed up veteran. The old measurements for good players are dead and so are the yanks.
@Simonmike
6 teams in MLB had a better record than the Yankees so I think it’s a bit premature to hold a wake.
But hey, hate doesn’t require facts.
I think the sentiment here is after a lone WS in 21 seasons and NYY becoming the poster-boys for wildcard their roster construction is looking a little outdated. “We’re still the Yankees” has morphed into “we overpay our way into wildcard and get bounced sooner than later all whilst claiming superiority over the teams who now routinely beat us”.
SimonMike: First, judging by your picture, you’re like, 2. Do your parents know you’re posting online?
I am very happy the steroid king, Verlander, did NOT join my beloved Yankees. Let that cheating SOB stay where he belongs, with the cheating Houston ASStros. I’d rather get a supposedly over the hill Clayton Kershaw who is nothing but class and integrity. And a valuable lefty in Yankee Stadium with that asinine right field porch that most little leaguers could hit homeruns in off of RH pitchers. And as I have said again and again, MAKE Severino the closer. Chapman is washed up and wild as hell. Sevy will never be able to be a 7 inning starter again due to his injury problems. He was absolutely awesome in relief late last year and he would be a dominant closer much like former starters in MLB like our own Mariano Rivera and Dennis Eckersley and John Smoltz. It would be the smartest move the Yankees could make but with Boone in charge, it will never happen.
Steroid king? I’m not saying you’re wrong I just don’t recall anything about that. Wouldn’t surprise me either since Asstros are basically like Russia in the olympics – ya know, cheat, cheat, cheat.
My memory may also be waning due to my lack of Alpha Lipoic Acid consumption as well.
So you are libelling Verlander with zero proof and zero basis in facts just because the Yankees were the losing bidders for his services, AGAIN?!
Pathetic! MLB has frequent, random drug testing.
Verlander has never been accused of anything, never been a cheater.
You must be confusing him with the Yankees who won their last five titles by cheating with rosters loaded up with roided up/drugged up players ?!
OR the reported Yankees video room to decode stolen signs from opponents
from the last 10 years?!
Hard to hate Cashman for not wanting to spend that on an older, rehabbing player. It’s JV, but he could end up being wild (as tends to be the case in the first TJ year).
Given their depth and great pitching coach, they should address 1B, SS, and CF, as priorities, in that order. Mad Max is also another big fish.
thank you Houston for being dumber than Cashman
Amen brother.
Yeah being to 3 WS in 5 years not smart at all. Thanks to Cashman for keeping the Yanks mediocre.
Verlander must have thoroughly enjoyed rejecting the Yankees.
Garcia was the most popular until that pesky thing called 2021 happened.
Kershaw is going no where! He wants to keep what he used to have and can only do that in dodger blue. He goes somewhere else he has to shine but in blue he don’t have to. He was once a 1 guy now he can be a 4th or 5th in rotation if his mind can handle the fact he don’t got it now more but verlander will do great in houstoif healthy ! #curveballkershaw22