The Red Sox are known to be looking for rotation help this winter, and the club has “had varying degrees of contact with virtually all of the top starters on the market,” The Boston Globe’s Alex Speier writes. This includes reigning AL Cy Young Award winner Robbie Ray, who hadn’t previously been linked to the Sox on the rumor mill, though it naturally stands to reason that the Red Sox would have interest in such a prominent arm.
Given the wide net the Sox are casting in their pitching search, it isn’t known if Ray is necessarily at the top of Boston’s list of potential targets. Signing Ray would come at a double cost — one of the biggest contracts given to any free agent this offseason, as well as a penalty of $500K reduction from Boston’s international draft pool and a second-round draft pick, since Ray rejected the Blue Jays’ qualifying offer.
The Red Sox might be willing to accept those penalties to sign a top-tier starter like Ray, however, as Speier notes that the team also had interest in another QO free agent in Justin Verlander. “Talks never advanced” too far between the two sides before Verlander agreed to return to Houston on a two-year, $50MM pact, but if the Red Sox were open to surrendering a pick for a shorter-term addition like Verlander, it would stand to reason that they’d also be open to giving up a pick to add Ray on a longer-term commitment. It should be noted that the Sox have some extra draft capital to work with next summer, as since Eduardo Rodriguez rejected Boston’s qualifying offer and then agreed to a deal with the Tigers, the Red Sox will receive an extra selection between Competitive Balance Round B and the start of the third round.
As for other now-signed free agent hurlers, Speier writes that the Red Sox were one of the teams bidding on Andrew Heaney, and the left-hander was given a one-year offer “competitive with the $8.5MM he signed for with the Dodgers.” Speier also notes that the Red Sox didn’t have interest in Noah Syndergaard, which runs contrary to a report from The New York Post’s Joel Sherman earlier this week that suggested Boston made an “aggressive” offer to Syndergaard before the righty signed with the Angels.
Steven Matz is a pitcher known to be of interest to the Red Sox, and it is possible Matz might decide on his next team relatively quickly. According to Speier, Matz would prefer to have an agreement in place prior to the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement on December 1, and the signing freeze that would come with a potential lockout on December 2. Matz is hoping to get a deal done by Thanksgiving, and given the number of teams already known to have checked in on the southpaw, it certainly seems plausible that a deal could be reached this week. Besides the Red Sox, Matz has been linked to the Dodgers, Cardinals, and Angels, plus the Blue Jays have continued to explore re-signing Matz for a longer term in Toronto.
They’re already down a man, and what Sale can deliver remains unknown, so they’ll need to add pitching.
Ya think?
Keep in mind that the Red Sox have an additional 2nd round pick this year (#5 overall) for failing to sign Jud Fabian from last year’s draft and this pick is not available for forfeiture should the Sox sign FA with a QO attached. So the Sox will get their regular 1st round pick plus the 5th pick of the 2nd round even if they sign Robbie Ray or another QO free agent. They would forfeit their actual 2nd round pick from this past season (somewhere in the high 50’s or low 60’’s overall). They also get that extra pick for E-Rod so they really could sign (2) FAs with QO’s attached and not be hurt too badly in the draft. They would forfeit a fair amount of their international pool money though ($750K or $1M..I can’t remember how much they take away if you sign a 2nd QO’d player).
I don’t think that pick is protected. The Mets have the 11th and 14th picks and the breakdown on here said they would lose that 14th pick if they sign a free agent with a QO. The rule states the team forfeits it’s second highest pick regardless of where it falls
No, it is protected. If the Mets pick for Rocker happened to be #16 or #17, they wouldn’t have to forfeit it (they would forfeit their second rounder) but since the Rocker pick comes before their actual 2021 first round draft pick, they would be stuck forfeiting their non-protected pick.
Ah right, the Mets regular pick comes after the compensation so that’s why they’d lose the 14th. Carry on
The Jud Fabian pick is 100% protected.
Regardless of what pick the Sox have, it’s been a long time a high draft pick made an immediate impact on the starting rotation 1st year out, past June.
I’d bet the Sox are more likely to sign Matz than Ray. I just don’t see them dishing out around $130M for a guy who has pitched well just this year and in 2017. They will likely save their big buck expenditures for extending Devers & Xander, and signing a big-name hitter.
After next season they’ll probably give another pitcher a 9-figure contract. And when Nate’s contract is up after next season, if he’s as good or better than he was this year, I can see an extension there as well.
I think the pitcher they add will be somewhere in between them, like a Rodon or Gray. A lot of unknowns in the rotation, I think they’ll want a high upside guy without paying top market prices.
Heck, they could even add Matz too and have Houck start as the long man in the pen and Whitlock in a setup role.
SoxRewl – Houck may be the best pitcher on the staff in 2022, why would anyone even consider not starting him? Sale, Eovaldi and Houck are the three givens. Whitlock and Pivetta are the question marks.
Bloom has never spent big bucks on a Free Agent in his career not just in Boston. No reason to think that will change prior to the 2022 season especially with the CBA issue and potential strike. Bloom will behave like Bloom so I expect the lower end of the scale and multiple pitchers to help create depth so they can shed the current marginal pitchers.
Kim from St. Louis makes sense. Good upside low cost. Jordan Lyles makes sense as well. Maybe even Brett Anderson from Milwaukee or John Gant who has pitched well in the past. One thing you can be assured of is Mike Fiers won’t be somebody who is considered as long as Boston has Cora!!
“Bloom has never spent big bucks on a Free Agent in his career not just in Boston.”
You act like Bloom’s been doing this for 30 years. He had ONE other job with the Rays. They don’t allow big spending, Red Sox do. Owners say whats spent, not GM. He will definitely be spending at some point, as soon as he fixes the broken team DD left him.
Pivetta Is in no way, shape, or form a question mark. There was a period where he was the most reliable a starter they had this year. His stuff is unquestionable and his fire and makeup were controlled this year which is why he had his best season. As far as I, and most people are concerned, Eovaldi, Sale, Pivetta and Houck are pretty much locks, with only Houck a slight question mark.
Thank you for pointing out the obvious to this troll. Bloom has been a PBO for exactly 2yrs. Knock it off with the Bloom track record KD and follow your own team and bore that fan base with your bs
A well managed franchise would start young talent like Houck in the bullpen in April to keep their inning count down late in the season. They probably don’t want him to pitch more than 150 innings all regular season with another 30 in the postseason in an ideal world. That’s why they’d want to bring a couple fresh faces in.
Personally unless the Sox get a true closer like Iglesias, I’d prefer they find other starters and have Whitlock and Houck ready for the 8th and 9th innings.
Dewey – I don’t think the Sox will give up on Barnes so quickly, especially with that extension he just signed. He deserves a second chance next season, and I’m sure he’ll get it.
dennyd – Rewriting history again. You claim Bloom is experienced as a GM when he got here and then you deny it when convenient. He gets credit for the great job TB has done but the fact is he has ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE at contracting big time free agents. You rationalize why but that doesn’t change the facts.
Next, you try another misdirect by suggesting DD left a broken team. The facts show when DD left the team was still World Championship caliber. The loss of Mookie was the huge degradation of talent and BLOOM did that not DD. Get your facts straight and stop trying to mislead readers.
Steve7seven – You need to read more closely. I said he was a question mark as to whether he would be a starter in 2022 if Boston gets a new expensive FA SP. I love Pivetta. He and Whitlock will bring up the bottom of the rotation if the Red Sox don’t get anyone else.
I think it’s great that the guys at your local bar think Pivetta is ahead of Houck but that’s just stupid. Houck is three years younger, has a far greater ceiling and is the future ace of the Red Sox. Like I said, I love Pivetta but be real. He’s slotted at 4 to 6 in the rotation depending on any FA pick=ups and Whitlock. That’s not a slam just a realistic appraisal based on his history. A second year of solid numbers would go a long way to solidifying a spot in the rotation.
You may want to start discussing baseball with knowledgeable baseball fans so you don’t say embarrassing things that have no basis in fact.
Reading your second comment I see that you are both uninformed and immature. Maybe your credibility might rise if you actually stated some facts and not your uninformed opinion.
FACT – BLOOM HAS NOT CONTRACTED A STAR FREE AGENT in his entire career.
The fact is irrefutable but that doesn’t stop jackasses like you and dennyd from voicing your insults because my facts are right and you don’t like them. Get over yourself and start discussing topics intelligently.
Did you just say Houck is the future ace of the Red Sox? I like Houck a lot but he’s getting to the point where he’s better suited being the closer than a starter. He’s 25 years old, hasn’t developed a third pitch after 3 season of college and 3/4 more in the minors and gets absolutely destroyed the third time through the order even at AAA and you expect him to be an ace?
Dewey – I like the Iglesias suggestion. FPG is right that too much money was spent on Barnes so Bloom may try to save face yet again by playing him despite his huge shortcomings as a closer. It’s rookie mistakes like these which continue to haunt Bloom in Boston.
Also, it’s a numbers game. You get 13 pitchers on the roster. Sale, Eovaldi, Houck and Pivetta are currently the targeted starters. Lets say another SP is added to make 5. That allows Whitlock to be a reliever in high stress innings. If they keep Barnes in the closer role as FPG is suggesting that leaves six other roster spots for relievers. They have Taylor, Hernandez, Brasier, Sawamura and Davis. So that leaves one spot for either Valdez or Seabold since Winchowski probably isn’t ready to pitch in the majors yet.
The dilemma is where to focus the money on any new additions. I say a closer like Iglesias moves Barnes to set-up which drops one of the guys listed above and the SP helps the bullpen by allowing Whitlock to be the stress inning guy. A cheap SP like Kim would allow for a more expensive closer like Iglesias.
If Houck and Pivetta get the 8th and 9th innings like you suggest then Boston needs 3 SPs or to use an opener in at least one spot in the rotation and two new SPs.
Dewey, I don’t think that’s feasible.
I say pick-up iglesias and let Pivetta be the #5 SP by adding ONE new SP. Two pitching acquisitions would make the entire staff much stronger. 2 hitting acquisitions could do the same if JD or Devers can be dealt.
In JD’s case we deal him to either fill one of the two hitting spots or a SP spot or simply to free up money. In the case of Devers we trade him for a more expensive upgrade at 3B that can field and hit, specifically Jose Ramirez. Then, if they want to win the division they’ll need a big upgrade at CF or 2B. Semien would break the bank and is a year too late. Starling Marte like Jose Ramirez is a perfect fit in CF and the future leadoff man that’s been missing since Mookie was shipped out of town unceremoniously.
My ideal 2022 line-up is:
CF Starling Marte
SS Xander Bogaerts
3B Jose Ramirez
DH JD Martinez
1B Bobby Dalbec
LF Alex Verdugo
RF Hunter Renfroe
C Christian Vazquez
2B Kiki Hernandez
SP 1 – 5
1 – Sale 2 – Eovaldi 3 – Houck 4 – Kim 5 – Pivetta
Relief Pitching
CL – Iglesias
Stress Inning – Whitlock
Set-up – Barnes, Sawamura, Taylor, Hernandez, Brasier and Davis
That leaves four bench hitters including Arroyo, Plawecki, Locastro and one player to be named later based on Spring Training and available cheap utility players that can add at least one very specific talent.
That’s my Christmas list for the Red Sox. The money would be fine by 2023 when Bloom’s mistake with Price rolls off Boston’s books. It’s a maintainable sub Cap roster that would compete for a division title and possibly the world series. TWO KEY ADDITIONS make this possible. Trading Devers to upgrade to Ramirez and contracting Starling Marte.
I’d like to see Boston take a chance on Jon Gray. I think he’d fare much better away from Colorado and he wouldn’t cost them a draft pick either. Coming away with both Matz & Gray would be ideal, but I’m not sure Boston is willing to go over the $210M mark in CBT totals. With JDM opting in and David Price’s $16M still on the books for 2021, I believe the Boston payroll is around $170M right now and $185M+ from a CBT perspective (mostly due to player benefits getting added to the CBT totals). So if Boston’s budget is $210M, they have about $35M to work with this offseason, unless they are able to trade away some payroll.
I wonder if Boston could package Dalbec, a young pitcher (Seabold or Bello) and another younger player for Matt Olson. Oakland appears to be looking for major league ready, pre-arbitration players and this would meet those needs as both Dalbec & Seabold are ready. They could even throw in Jeter Downs and someone like Jay Groome and try to get both Olson & Bassitt or Olson & Manaea. It would be a steep price for Boston to pay but it could be the move that puts them in position to win it all next season. The kid they drafted in the 1st round two years ago seems to be moving quickly and may end up being better than Downs at 2nd base so Downs may be expendable now.
According to Jon Heyman, Oakland is “shooting for the moon” for Olson. Read into that what you will.
As they should. He’s a top 5 1B in the game and a gold glover. He legit should fetch a better return than mid rotation starters and Bobby Dalbec
Well Dalbec hits a lot of balls that end up on the moon and he only costs $600K in salary. I think he’s a player Oakland would be very interested in. He’s not necessarily the headliner of the deal (the pitcher would be) but Dalbec’s potential has to interest Beane & Co.
Dalbec had 0.2 WAR in 400 ABs, I don’t think he’s as good as you think.
Did you see his second half?
He had a terrible first half when he wasn’t playing consistently. His second half was really good to get to positive WAR. If that trend of reducing his K rate and increasing his BB rate holds, Dalbec is very solid. He also was a fine defensive 3B now learning 1B, I think he will improve there too.
I get why you would think Dalbec isn’t very good, but his season numbers are kind of misleading. He was absolutely useless in the first half, but after Schwarber joined the Sox he helped Dalbec fix his swing, then only Harper had a higher OPS over the final 2 months. I don’t think he’ll actually produce like that all of next season of course, but he clearly legitimately turned a corner with Schwarber’s help.
@ Mantooth Dalbec had a good month and half at the end of the season but he’s not good defensively at first and still strikes out too much. Regardless of whether or not he’s the headliner Oakland isn’t considering that low ball offer. Dalbec would be a throw in for them as a guy to take a flier on. The conversation for them would start with at minimum Casas with others but that makes no sense from the Sox perspective.
The moon is pretty old. I’d be careful about paying for its decline years.
Agreed! That thing is definitely waning.
if that’s the offer and I’m Billy Beane I’m hanging up the phone. That’s a laughable return for Olsen even IF you threw in Downs (whom I still like a lot).
Diego Cartaya, Miguel Vargas and Gavin Lux for Olsen to the Dodgers. They would shift Muncy to 2B. Or if there is a DH, Muncy to 3B and Turner to DH.
I think Oakland can get a better return for Olsen from other than Boston. Maybe the Red Sox can trade for Sonny Gray so Gray can pitch against the Yankees. I do like your suggestion of FA Jon Gray.
Why would the Red Sox want Sonny Gray? If he couldn’t handle New York he won’t fair much better in Boston
The Yankees changed the way Sonny Gray pitched (pitch selection not mechanics). It looks like he left NY and went back to being Sonny Gray. I would give him a shot in Boston depending on the price.
I am thinking for Sonny Gray it would take any two of the four below:
Blaze Jordan
Brainer Bonaci
Matthew Lugo
Nathan Hickey
These are mostly younger guys, and all position players, at least three years from the show.
I wouldn’t trade Jordan for Sonny Gray without others in the deal. Anyone who can hit 500 foot home runs at age 15 who is in your system, let him develop.
I’d like to see them take a chance on Jon Gray, but trading for Olson would be too costly. And I don’t really think a package of Dalbec, Seabold and Groome would get it done.
Realistically the Sox do not have the pieces to trade for any major headlining players. Casas, Mata, Yorke, and Mayer are the only real trade assets in the minors and it would probably take all four to get Oakland even interested
If Oakland wouldnt have interest in 2 prospects in the top 20 in all of baseball they would be idiots…they arent idiots.
Rsox: Yes. Probably still the same situation as last year’s trade deadline.
Seabold is worthless right now dude. His velocity is only in the high 80s and there are real concerns that he may not be able to get it back. There’s also really no reason to go for Olson when they have Casas almost ready.
I don’t think they’ll make a play for Olson not with Casas on the near horizon
Gray has always been better pitching in Colorado than on the road. Lately by quite a wide margin. One of the reasons I suspect he’ll re-sign with the Rox.
Moving Downs now is selling at his actual value IMO, which is low. Time to move him was last year after they had acquired him initially.
Cannot see then flipping any SP from the minors from AA upward like Seabold/Bello/Mata. So few close to actually helping the team and mata of course probably won’t pitch at all next year since had TJ last summer and Seabold/Bello really only 2 they have ATM projected to be of any use at thse levels, other than likewise TJ guy Ward, back end SP/reliever Winkowski and who knows how he ends up Jason Groome. Rest are Milb depth, or nothing as far as starters go.
Why are we going to trade for Olson when Dalbec just finished a solid first season with big second half gains and even more importantly, our number 2 prospect that should be at Fenway this year being Casas? I’ll trade for Oakland’s pitchers for sure but no reason to get Olson even as good as he is.
Maybe not Olson, but I see Dalbec getting traded somewhere.
Boston needs to replace Raffy Devers at 3rd base. As much as I love him, he and X-Man might be the worst left side of an infield in all of baseball. Boston’s farm system strength is IF and to a lesser extent, Pitching. So what Boston could do is move Casas back to 3rd base in AAA Worcester this year to see if he can hack it. If he can, Raffy would move to DH in 2023 (once JD leaves), Casas would play 3B and someone like Matt Olson could play 1B. It wouldn’t be the end of the world if Boston didn’t trade for Olson and kept both Dalbec and Casas but after the way Boston played last year and with Sale being back to full strength, I was hoping Boston would make a run at the title in 2022. Adding 2 above average FA pitchers and trading for an All-Star, gold glover in Matt Olson (from a team desperate to slash payroll) would be a great place to start. Sure it would cost a lot of prospect capital but if you feel like you can win it all, you go for it!
2022 is also a huge year for Jarren Duran. He needs to prove he can consistently hit major league pitching. If he cannot (and the Sox lose Gilberto Jimenez in the Rule 5 draft), Boston is in real trouble in the OF after 2022 as they have no true OF prospects outside of Duran & GJ who can make an impact over the next couple of seasons. So Boston has many different directions to go this offseason but one thing is for sure; they have a glut of IF’s (both in the majors and in the minors) and they need to do something about it. If they don’t want to trade some for an Olson, they should trade some for pitching and/or OF depth. I believe the Red Sox are 3-4 impact players/pitchers away from truly competing for a title in 2022; what Chaim does this offseason will tell us if he feels the same way or not.
If Casas could play third at a big league level then he would still be at third. There is no chance of him going back to third. He is a first baseman and a pretty good one at that. I agree Boston is not going to give up assets for Olson it’s just not really a need.
I do think that Bloom might target Montas if Oakland is willing to move him maybe Dalbec and Duran would peak Oaklands interest I think that is where Bloom should look. If he could pull that off he could add another starter perhaps Matz and also resign Schwarber. That might be a better use of assets.
Bruin,
I’ve had an interest last few years in seeing Sean Manea at fenway with the Sox. Think he could be one of the succesful LH guys who could do well with the wall and not close to the injury history Montas has had over the years.
Both would slot in as the #3 as of now in boston and probably cost a lot, but if price on Matz gets too prohibitive? Oakland and Manea 1st becomes my choice afterwards.
Why not trade JD now while we can get something for him? I would be happy trading him (if teams bite) as well as Dalbec. It is possible, though I hope we hear about DH in the NL, as that will open JD’s chances of playing elsewhere.
His value goes way up if the new agreement includes an NL DH. If an offer to Bloom’s liking was there now, he’d already be gone. Personally, I’d rather have JDM given his age and glove than Schwarber who was fun but overall is nowhere near as consistent as JDM.
I would want one or the other. The benefit to Schwarber is we can get him long term and he’s younger.
Depends on the deal, especially the length. I’d rather have JDM the next three (two year extension) than KS the next five.
I believe the Red Sox are 3-4 impact players/pitchers away from truly competing for a title in 2022
=============================
We’re already ready to compete. IMO:
1-Story is dirt cheap at the numbers being discussed. If the numbers are correct, sign him for $126M/6. Play him at 2nd in 2022. In 2023, he moves to SS, Bogaerts to 3rd, and Devers to DH.
2-Trade some combination of Duran and Downs for Castillo+.
3-Sign Knebel for two years to close.
John, I think any of those Oakland pitchers would be a good add to the rotation I think that Manea and Bassett are free agents after next year so I think Bloom would target Montas who has an extra year of control. I also think that Dalbec and Duran for Montas would be a fair trade.
The problem with all the other fantasy trades on this site is no way Boston moves Devers off of third. They are not going to piss him off this close to free agency so it’s a moot point. Boston has there future first baseman already and it ain’t Dalbec it’s Casas. Dalbec is expendable and if you can get a pitcher like Montas by moving expendable pieces I would do it.
I think all of those A’s pitchers come with injury concerns but they all would slot into Eddie’s place in the rotation so whatever you can work out Bassett and Manea should come cheaper due to only one year of control left. The bottom line is Dalbec is expendable no Dalbec is not in the same league as Devers offensively. Devers has had already had two semi MVP caliber seasons before Dalbec even made it to the big leagues. Dalbec is expendable and so is Duran it’s time to make the hard choices but Boston needs pitching.
I love to argue Joe but if what you stated is doable, sign me up.
JDM given his age? He’s 36. I’d cash out on JD now and resign Schwarber who is 28 in a second.
JD turned 34 just 3 months ago.
Correction 34. either way its not exactly like he’s 26 and on the rise
Never happen. A) 2021 is over. B) not only did the Sox save money w Erod, they have Pedey’s salary gone. And C) CB already said the Sox are ahead of schedule and due to the fact that they have JD’s contract coming off and they have reset the penalty tax, he has no problem at all going over the limit for 2022. And we don’t even know what that limit will be.
And on too if my prior post, the best prospect on the 40 man is a 1B and by all
Accounts ready to contribute in 2022. Hrs leading the AFL in batting average And is gifted on the defensive side. Cmon with the posts that obviously weren’t researched prior.
Also worth pointing out that the Sox get an additional second round pick for failing to sign Jud Fabian, so that, plus the compensation for Rodriguez might make them a little more willing to sign a QO decliner.
I’d still keep all the picks/international dollars and sign Gausman!
Matz would be a slight downgrade over Rodriguez, but they still need to replace him. If you can do it for 2 or 3 years at a decent AAV- 10 millionish? Do it. Sign a few bullpen arms, a position player who can play second, and you’re probably okay. Not seeing them making any huge splashes but 3 or 4 solid players would be enough.
It might be a huge downgrade if you look at analytics.. Matz has been spotty, so hard to know.
Both have been inconsistent. Difference is ER was proven in big situations.
mookiessnarl – Matz is not a downgrade from Rodriguez. Matz moved to the AL East last year and put up a 3.82 ERA and 1.334 WHIP. Heck, he might be a clone of E-Rod with slightly better numbers They both suck. He reeks of the same stench that E-Rod carried. Inconsistent, mediocre and injury prone. At least his most recent years are better than E-Rods but I say take a pass on Matz.
The Red Sox don’t need a $10M a year pitcher. The price range has failed multiple times for them. They need cheaper pitchers that perform better than the $10M a year type. Also, to stay under the expected cap Boston doesn’t have the luxury of grabbing in between players. They have room for ONE expensive player unless they move JD or another big salary guy. That’s why I say trade Devers to Cleveland and solve the defensive problem at 3B while upgrading the hitting and base stealing. Then, with the remaining money get pitchers that are cost effective.
Trading for Ramirez allows JD to stay in the line-up at a very reasonable price. Barnes is still too expensive for his value so they need to move him but after that the rest of the line-up is reasonable from a cost/benefit analysis perspective. Catchers are well priced, Dalbec is cheap, Hernandez is an expensive $6M a year for a .250 hitter but he’s known Cora since he was 8 years old so somehow the front office thinks that makes it alright to overpay for him. Bogey is priced well. Ramirez would be priced well. Verdugo and Renfroe are priced well so if Kiki plays CF then Arroyo is priced well for his lack of skill. Sale needs to pitch like a $30M starter and if he’s healthy he should. Eovaldi is priced well. Houck is dirt cheap for what he brings. The same for Pivetta and Whitlock. Other than Barnes no reliever is grossly overpaid so the elephant in the room is the wasted $16M going to Price in LA. Without that mistake, the Red Sox would have the available cap room to significantly upgrade from the 2021 team that performed so well but so far over their heads.
Matz isn’t the answer but two or three starters for Matz money might give the team some SP depth. Moving one of the DHs would also free up money for the positions that need to be filled.
Why bring up Price when Bloom did well to salvage 50%? Barnes is not tradable after the way he finished. Trade Devers? Unless you extend JDM, he’s your DH in 23. Devers has the type of bat you build around and try to best minimize his defense short comings. Finally, while Bogie is underpriced, that will soon change so plan on it one the next CBA is finalized if you expect him to be on the team after 22.
16 million is a lot when you tread close to the luxury tax line…
They’ve been over it before and will likely do so again but with a plan in mind. The Sox problem was doubling down in 19 and re-signed Sale who was already hurting. DD did not think about 2020 because ownership wanted a repeat. Unfortunately, he was the scapegoat. While I did not want to see him go, Bloom has to date done a great job but he still has to get a ring to be in the company or Boston’s last three GMs
I wouldn’t hold anything against DD in 2019. I think Henry wanted to be the first this century with B2B titles. And I don’t disagree. Sometimes these things don’t work out.
Dewey – You do realize that it was more expensive to give Price away and pay 50% of his salary to LAD while receiving no benefit for his services? COVID made the deal that much worse since Price opted out to shorten the money owed by $32M if he was in Boston. The salvage you are suggesting is actually an additional cost because Price provides value ONLY to LAD not BOS.
Trading Devers for Ramirez is a HUGE upgrade defensively, a huge upgrade in stolen bases and a huge upgrade in overall hitting skills. I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t take Ramirez in a heartbeat over Devers.
Bogaerts has 1 year left before his opt out. In 2023 Bogey will be on the down side of his prime years at age 30. If he opts out, then a short term replacement for 2023 can be picked up until Mayer is ready in 2024. Remember, DD’s plan was to have a rework after the 2022 season which would have included an extension for Bogaerts if both parties could agree on his worth. The same exists now. That shouldn’t be an issue if Bogey wants to stay..
While Devers is the type of bat you build around, Ramirez is the type of PLAYER you build around. He’s like Mookie which means he’s a hell of a lot better than Devers. He plays stellar defense, offense and steals more bases than Mookie. He is an elite top 5 player in baseball. Devers will never be that guy since he can’t field.
I think the Red Sox are in a good position to exceed the CBA this year. We should sign Rodon for what ever it takes and trade Verdugo, dalbec, and Bello for Ketel Marte who we put at second. Resign shwarber to play first base. Duran will play left.
That’s what’s called too much
BoSox – Trading Dalbec would be a big mistake. He’s a dirt cheap power hitting run producer who won’t escalate in price for years and has the potential to be an all-star in the next year or two.
Also, as pwndroia pointed out that’s too much money without creating as much value. Exceeding the cap was your assumption so your suggestion does exceed the cap but Boston needs to fix the broken positions and the cap shouldn’t get in the way but likely will.
Need #1 – Fix 3B so Devers goes to DH or is traded
Need #2 – Find a $20M starting pitcher to slot in behind Eovaldi
Need #3 – Get a proven closer
Need #4 – CF/2B needs to be resolved with Kiki at one of the spots
Need #5 – Relief upgrade and depth
Whitlock can be in the bullpen if a SP is acquired to go with Sale, Eovaldi, Houck and Pivetta. If a SP goes down, then an opener should be used while the SP is down. That way, with a new closer and all those set up arms the team has the relief depth to fill the 6th to 9th innings regularly. With the current starters there is a good chance many will pitch into the 7th inning or more which will reduce the demand for the bullpen and allow for short stints where one of the starters is on the IL. Thus, the bullpen just needs a true closer and Whitlock as the stress inning guy. The added quality of depth will help transition the starters to the closer during games. Covering that gap is how teams like TB are so successful.
One big move in my book for Boston is Iglesias. Having him as the closer solves that issue and won’t cost as much as a big ticket infielder like Baez.
Completely agree with those needs. Feel we are on the same page with this @KD17
I’m indifferent on the Devers one but if we can trade JD I’m all for it
The fact multiple teams were bidding for Heaney is a laugh riot.
I’m not surprised. These guys love underlying stats, perhaps to a fault sometimes…. Reminds me of the Smyly ink last year so much
As a Dodger fan Im not smitten with the ink but I did think we would see a contract above what most expected w him this year w quite a bit of interest from the heavy analytical teams spawning his market
Red Sox fans have broken from Yankee fans in thinking every single available player in the offseason is on his way to them- either in FA, or for a basket of players of which only one is (or will be) a seemingly good MLB player.
Yes, it’s fun to speculate about pitchers. But Chiam came from the Rays, and he’s already instituted a way or working with pitchers. Tanner Houck and Nick Pivetta came from out of nowhere to give the team quality innings. There’s a good chance they continue to get better – with no or minor injuries. And there’s no discussion of pitchers they have on their roster and in the upper minors that can be reworked and contribute.
Talking about Matz pitching in Fenway is a little crazy to me – especially if he has options. And as the article noted – Ray had 1 very good year in 2017 and an exceptional one in 2021. It appears he has a nice professional relationship going with the Jays pitching coaches.
Samuel – Bloom has NOTHING to do with Houck’s success. He was there before Bloom arrived and simply over-looked by the all seeing and all knowing prospect gurus. That’s normal for the Red Sox who annually have a break out prospect that contributes rather than a bunch of top 100 prospects from failing the year before and receiving high draft picks.
Yes, the 2020 failure got us Mayer and the bad 2019 got us Yorke but the guys graduating and adding value to the team all predated Bloom’s arrival. There is no evidence that Bloom is doing a good job in the minors since none of his adds have been promoted and added value on the MLB team.
Bloom and ownership have changed the trend in Boston of hoping for big named stars to be acquired during the off season. You are right. The way you wrote it made me think that you believe it’s a good thing. For me, it’s not a good thing that our current GM has NEVER acquired an expensive Free Agent during his time in Boston or TB. His best deals in TB were for controllable players not expensive Free Agents. I have no confidence he could outbid another team since he’s never done it before.
So, is it good that guys like Verlander and Scherzer have no chance of coming to Boston to help make up for the Mookie mistake? I don’t think so. My biggest off season wish is to acquire Jose Ramirez from Cleveland and offer him a long=term contract before one of the other big market teams beat us to it. He’s the lone superstar that is heading into free agency in the near future. He’s a better player than many of the $30M a year players and Boston could use that type of upgrade to return some of the value lost when Mookie left.
Pivetta was a good move by Bloom. Fans need to realize he’s not the guy to go get an impact player. He’s the guy that trades for upside potential that may not be realized quickly thus he’s not going to bring a division title or a ring to Boston any time soon. TB has no rings in it’s history because they use the same approach as Bloom. It may create consistency in the long run but it doesn’t produce rings.
Personally, I prefer some inconsistency and regular rings than highly consistent performance and no division titles or rings. But that’s just me. I’m sure I must be an exception..
So which of the “recent graduates” that predated Bloom contributed to the team in a meaningful way last year? Whitlock was a 2021 rule 5 pickup, Pivatta as you stated was another guy that Bloom acquired. So aside from Dalbec and Houck who’s contributions were up and down all year no one who “graduated” last aside from them predated Bloom.
aceil10 – The obvious answer is Dalbec. He’s started his career faster than Devers did AND he can field!!! Why was that not obvious to you if you are a Red Sox fan? Duran didn’t get enough playing time to be considered a significant add. He’s the guy on the horizon for 2022 that predates Bloom. So is Mata who is a likely candidate for 2023.
Also, Pivetta wasn’t a minor league player when he came to Boston so he doesn’t qualify as a graduate. His 19-30 record in Philly clearly establishes him as a MLB acquisition not a prospect.
@KD17 I really think you need to work on your reading comprehension…. I said ASIDE From Dalbec and Houck. Also what is this nonsense abut Dalbec being able to field? He was one of the worst defensive infielders at 1B which is a position easier to field. Also Dalbec has not started his career faster than Devers. Devers broke into the big leagues at 20. Dalbec was 25! Devers was an MVP candidate and a borderline All star before Dalbec even reached the majors and he’s a year younger than him. You’re out of your freaking mind if you think Dalbec is the superior player
@KD17 how can you say a guy who’s been an elite producer and all star who started career at age 20 got off to a slower start than a player who didn’t break in until he was 25. on no planet does that make any sense
Some of the comments are laughable. 25 years v someone who was the youngest player in baseball.?
aceil10 – If I say Boston has a trend of continuous graduation from the minors every year and then you list two guys and say who else graduated as if two wasn’t enough it suggests your understanding of a gradual consistent promotion pattern is bad. The key words are gradual and consistent.
The idea is to graduate 1 per year to even out the years in which the players become arbitration eligible and free agency eligible. I consider Dalbec the 2021 guy because his arbitration year will be a year earlier than Houck’s because they kept Houck in the minors long enough in 2021 to move him into the following year. That’s why Duran will be limited so he will be the year after Houck if all goes well in 2022.
NEXT – Again, your reading comprehension is shoddy. I’ve said it twice now. Dalbec has out=performed Devers in his first 500 at bats. Age isn’t important in comparing careers because some players don’t go to college and others do. The MLB performance evaluator starts the day you play your first MLB game and comparing players based on the MLB performance gives you a feel for where they will go with their careers. Devers is a career DH who has hurt the Red Sox on defense for 5 seasons. Dalbec has yet to play 162 games. He’s six games short of a full first season. That’s why to compare them you must take the games played so far by the guy with less games and align it with the comparable number of games by the more experienced player. It gives you a feel for where Devers was after 159 games or so.
Devers in 2017 when he broke in had an excellent first partial season:
58 games 222 at bats .284 average .338 OBP and .819 OPS
Dalbec in 2020 when he broke in had an excellent first partial season too.
23 games 80 at bats .263 average 359 OBP and .959 OPS.
Smaller sample but Dalbec out performed him.
Year two for Dalbec
133 games 417 at bats .240 average 298 OBP and .792 OPS
Year two for Devers
121 games 450 at bats .240 average .298 OBP and .731 OPS
The above are the facts that allow me to point out that the beginning of Dalbec’s career has started better than the beginning of Devers career and that’s not counting the HUGE difference on defense. As an overall player, Dalbec has shown more in 1 and a partial season that Devers could have hoped for since by the end of his second season Devers had already made 38 errors in 475 total chances. Dalbec has made 14 errors in 1046 total chances. It’s absurd that they let Devers play defense.
FYI… when somebody says something so incredibly stupid like Dalbec’s comp is Chris Carter I have to show the facts and how utterly absurd your comment was.
Chris Carter played THREE partial seasons before becoming a regular which already points out the absurdity of your comment.
Chris Carter hit .186 in 2010, .136 in 2011 and .239 in 2012. His career average was .217 with his 25 year old season being his peak average at .239. Carter was a power hitter who couldn’t hit for average. Dalbec is a power hitter who can. Dalbec in his first full season played in 133 games and Carter only played in that many games 3 times in his career of 8 years.
Whatever fool told you Dalbec is like Carter knows nothing about baseball. I’m guessing you made in up as an exaggeration since you obviously don’t like Dalbec.
Remember ONE THING from this schooling, nobody cares how old you are when you step into the batter’s box so performance has nothing to do with age, it has to do with skill Dalbec has showed far more skill than Devers did during his equivalent time in the majors. It’s a simple point that you seem to be struggling with since you don’t like Dalbec or you like the one dimensional Devers.
I don’t know where to begin with half this nonsense. Schooling? my goodness.
You want to talk stats? I’ll show my work. Over the course of their first two season that you are citing Devers had a WAR 0f 1.8 vs Dalbec who had a 1.5 WAR per fan graphs. You want to talk about defensively? Dalbec was a whopping – 12.6 per Def while Devers was only -3.4 last year. You want to go by baseball reference instead? Over his first two years Devers was had a dWar of -1.1 Dalbec during his first two years was a -1.6. Want to go by just last year? Devers was -0.9 while Dalbec was a -1.4. So actually one could make the argument that Devers has been better defensively over the portions of their career you seem most interested in than Dalbec. Want to look at total War instead? Dalbec was 0.8 War over his first two seasons while Devers was 1.1. Last year? Devers was 3.5 WAR while Dalbec was 0.8. By almost every metric I’ve shown that Devers is clearly the superior player. I’ve included the link below for your viewing.
And I love how you contradict yourself through out your posts. You talk about how it took Chris Carter 3 full season to become a regular, then compare Dalbec to Devers when Devers was actually a regular and Dalbec still hasn’t even become one yet. That alone ends the argument and shows h0w idiotic that was in the first place.
To the age point, it matters a great deal. It speaks to your abilities at an earlier age and predicts future success. How many players start their careers in their late 20s when they become regulars with as many flaws as Dalbec that suddenly turn into perennial alls stars.
I’m sure you’ll find some harebrained half assed way to contradict both these reputable baseball sites and I look forward to your tin foil hat justifications. But please for your sake I hope you stretch out before all the mental gymnastics so you don’t sprain anything with nonsense you’re spewing. .
baseball-reference.com/players/d/deverra01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/d/deverra01.shtml
acell10 – Your numbers are flat out wrong. First, all the WAR crap is fabricated bs with no meaning. It’s averages of averages and I’m not going to spend paragraphs reproving what bs it is.
Can’t win an argument with facts so you go to the made up stuff on fangraphs? Seriously? Meaningless drivel.
The numbers were presented in baseball stat format so everyone can see just how much better Dalbec has been and you try to misdirect the other readers once again with pure bs. You really are a poor sport. You get schooled and you whine back at me with bs. Grow a set and admit when you’ve been proven wrong.
Next learn what contradict means! hahaha You are such a simpleton. The point about three years related to the time it took for Carter to develop into a full time starter. There was never a contradiction in what I wrote it was yet another poor comprehension of what was written. That’s on you not me.
Your ridiculous argument that Dalbec isn’t a starter is just more ignorance on your part. He started more games in year 2 than Devers did!! You want to know why? It was because Devers got benched in August for sucking on defense. Dalbec clearly is one of the starters going into year 3 just like Devers was going into his year 3. To say that’s not so is simply a lie on your part.
Still not getting the difference between saying a player is better versus a player has performed better during the same interval of play. Take some reading comprehension classes. EVERYTHING I said was factually accurate and it supported the premise put forth in the first write-up.
DALBEC has out performed DEVERS through his first 500 at bats offensively and blows away DEVERS from a defensive perspective.
You just spent endless paragraphs trying to refute irrefutable facts. What’s wrong with you? People have opinions other than yours and when they document them with irrefutable facts you look like an ass for arguing . Next time, don’t be lazy by using links rather than facts! Show the hard data and if you are going to use modern metrics give a full briefing on what the statistic means and the precise calculation so that EVERYONE can see how many variables and constants go into the fabricated number you are using in your argument. That way, it will be so easy to refute since it’s derivative and hypothetical not FACTUAL.
KD!7 during their respective second season Dalbec played in more games but had Devers had about 30 more AB and 50 more plate appearance but sure Dalbec was a full time player. So yes you are cherry picking
Sox should go after one of the A’s pitchers. Don’t need Olson with Casas near ready.
Dalbec and Gimenez for Bassitt
I’m with you here. Of all the teams that are selling this offseason, I think the Sox line up for a trade with the Athletics the best. Teams like the Reds and Rockies want massive hauls for Luis Castillo or German Marquez, which the Sox won’t be willing to do. But I could definitely see the Sox snagging Manaea or Bassitt if the price was right.
Has Bassitt fully recovered psychologically after getting hit in the head?
AITSTYW – Great point about Bassitt.
ChrisD68 – Dalbec has out hit Devers in his first 400 at bats in the majors. Would you have suggested to trade Devers in 2018? NO. Think about how bad that move would have been from an offensive viewpoint. Then consider the fact that Devers is the worst 3B in the history of the Red Sox and we still keep him. Dalbec can field and out hit Devers and you want to trade him? That makes absolutely no sense.
@KD17 what you are saying makes absolutely no sense. Devers had the superior track record in the minors and regarded as one of the top prospects in all of baseball. Also Dalbec was not good defensively at 1B. Also since when is Devers the worst 3B in the history of the Red Sox? Dalbec is a nice player but his strike out rate has always been astronomical. It’s very rare that a player that strikes out that much in the minors and over the course of his first few years suddenly develops plate discipline while in the majors. His ceiling is Chris Carter which isn’t bad just not a future all star.
aceil10 = I’m sorry what I wrote confuses you. I will type slower.
Dalbec in his first 500 at bats so far has outperformed Devers in his first 500 at bats in the majors. I wasn’t talking about the insignificant minors I am talking about actual added value to the Red Sox in the majors which is all that matters. People should be higher on Dalbec than they were on Devers after 500 at bats because Dalbec has proven to be the better hitter.
Also, I don’t care if you don’t believe the research I did on worst 3Bs in the history of the Red Sox. Go back to the 1950s like I did and find me ANY 3B that played as long as Devers has (use total chances not years) and point out a worse 3B. I did the extensive research and he is HANDS DOWN by far the worst in the recorded history of Boston Red Sox baseball.
If you need more proof look up the most errors in a career at 3B on Baseball Reference. You will be shocked how close to the top Devers is after just four plus years of playing the position.
Obviously you are a young baseball fan who has no clue how to interpret data. His strikeout rate is captured in his batting average and his batting average is higher than Devers batting average was at the same point in his career. Likewise for his OBP and OPS. So hitting-wise Dalbec has had a slightly better start than Devers.
Fielding-wise it’s not even close!!! Dalbec fielding percentage is .987 with league average for 1B being .993. Devers fielding percentage is .935 with league average at 3B being .959. He’s .024 below league average while Dalbec in his first season is .006 below league average. That’s a small margin and can be improved upon with experience. Devers has played 3B in both the minors and majors for nearly a decade and has NEVER been able to improve his numbers in a sustained manner. He sucked 10 years ago and sucks now. That’s not going to change because he has more experience because at his experience level it should have already happened.
It’s really not fair to ever compare Devers to anyone else since he’s so drastically below league average and embarrassingly low overall. Every year he’s been up for the full year, he’s led the league at 3B in errors.
Thus, there is tons of documentation confirming his ineptitude as a fielder and it’s really not refutable!!
Last, saying things like his ceiling is Chris Carter is embarrassing for you. First, there is no evidence to support your statement and it shows a complete ignorance of batting development. You seem to think that a batter that strikes out a lot is worse than a batter that grounds out a lot or flies out a lot. Wake up, his batting average is all that matters since it reflects his success rate.
An out is an out and a hit is a hit and no simulation approach to evaluating players is going to validate that he’s less of a hitter making outs one way versus another. It’s all captured in the batting average and his walk rate isn’t impacted by his strike outs so his OBP is also independent of his K rate. You really need to figure out statistics because you don’t have an understanding of what matters.
Whoever told you his ceiling is Carter is an idiot. I hope it’s not your father!!
@KD17 you are making about as much sense as an argument in a youtube comment section. I love how you are cherry picking and using the first 500 at bats in someones big league career when one player had those at bats at age 20 as the youngest player in the big leagues while the other wasn’t even in high a ball yet and try to use that as a reason to justify this terrible take. Being a below average 1B isn’t good. it’s obvious that you’re old baseball fan who has no idea how the game is played so out of touch it’s not even funny. It’s also hilarious how you consider the minors insignificant and then use them as justification for why Dalbec will “get better” and why Devers has sucked. You say Devers has sucked for 10 years in the field…By your metric using BA, Dalbec has sucked in that category over the course his entire career. He sucked over his first full season in the minors and frankly his BA still sucks now. So what makes you think that suddenly Dalbec will improve in his average now when he hasn’t done that?
Also the “strike outs don’t matter” is one of the most ludicrous takes I’ve heard in a while. Striking out over 30% of time does not make for a successful major league career.
The embarrassing thing is this continued campaign of yours to devalue Devers. It makes one wonder if he owes you money or slept significant other.
Face facts and reality at this point. Dalbec is entering his age 27 season. At this point at two years younger Devers has been to an all star game and gotten MVP votes. If Dalbec were as elite as you say he was he wouldn’t have needed to spend 4 plus years in the “insignificant” minors after he got drafted before he broke in. Elite players rise quickly. He is a quality depth piece full stop. He’s a strike out machine with prodigious power decent OBP, a crap batting average, and a mediocre to bad fielder at the easiest position in the field to defend. To assume he’ magically going to improve is both at his age is ridiculous and ignorant much like the majority of your poorly informed takes.
Acell10 – Your inability to stay down after you’ve lost a fight is so annoying.
Cherry Picking the first 500 at bats? Dumb ass, I used 500 at bats because that’s all Dalbec has had. I would use more if he had played more at the MLB level but he hasn’t. Cherry picking? Are you seriously that stupid? Stop while you are behind!! Cherry picking suggest a subset that benefits the argument. I used the entire set of MLB data for Dalbec and then compared Devers. It’s the opposite of cherry picking!!
Your argument about strikeouts is bogus and I just need to drop a few names to prove it. Reggie Jackson leads all hitters in strike outs. He was a stud. Jim Thome another one near the top of the all time list. Other guys who made it while striking out a lot include: Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, Mike Schmidt to name a few. Striking out is simply one way to make an out and there is no GLORY in not striking out especially when there are no runners on base. Situational discussions can prove the optimal times to fly out versus ground out versus strike out. They are very specific to situations not a gross generality like you are suggesting.
LAST TIME = DALBEC has out performed DEVERS during the start of his career which happens to be 500 at bats. That is a fact. If you want to expand the meaning and then argue some other statement there is something wrong with you. I never said Dalbec is the better player I specifically talked about matching windows in each player’s career.
You keep trying to win the argument by changing the original statement.
It’s now official. You have completely lost this argument. Move on!!!
Oakland going to sell Olson high for prospects but I think they would have interest in Dalbec as a cheap flawed replacement.
Would like to get Sean Manaea ($10m) in a deal led by Dalbec. Allows Oakland to shed Olson & Manaea salary in another rebuild.
Christopher Date – There is nothing wrong with Dalbec. Striking out has been a part of baseball since it began. The reason batting average was invented was to measure the success of a hitter. How he makes the outs is irrelevant because circumstances of every at bat are always different. If a player strikes out with a man on first base that’s a better out than a guy who grounds out with a runner on first base because of the double play situation that it creates.
That’s why there are so many, many flaws in modern metrics thinking. It’s created by people who don’t understand the game just the math.
In the end the binary success or failure of each at bats goes into calculating the batting average and that is the measure of his success in hitting. If you have a prejudice against hitters that strike out you may want to look back at some of the greatest hitters in history and observe how many times they struck out.
As far as procuring a guy like Manaea goes. It’s a worthy choice for the missing SP Boston needs but start the dealings with the crap that Bloom got from LAD before offering up top flight prospects that predate Bloom’s demise of the farm system. If you want to trade Dalbec then Oakland will need to add something to go with Manaea to make the deal for Dalbec equitable for both sides..
Ray and Sale would be a really nice 1-2
Robbie Ray would be Rick Porcello II in Boston.
Would that be the good Porcello or the bad one?
Not even close buddy. Porcello didn’t walk guys nor did he have nearly anywhere near the strikeout rate that Ray has.
Porcello was also very mediocre. Ray has far more upside.
They already have a solid duo in Sale and Eovaldi. I would go hard after Scherzer and Stroman if I was Boston.
1.Scherzer
2.Sales
3.Stroman
4.Eovaldi
5.Houk or whatever is there to compete !
What happened to all of the Nick Pivetta love?
He’s under number 5. The whatever.
‘Whatever’ doesn’t sound like love to me.
I think you’re right. I believe he deserves a spot.
to4 – Only need one and that should be Scherzer since Stroman isn’t close to the same level of performance as Scherzer but the money will be close because Stroman is constantly overpaid. He’s more hype than performance.
Scherzer, Sale, Eovaldi, Houck and Pivetta is a nice rotation for the next two years!!
So is Sale, Eovaldi, Ray, Houck and Pivetta.
As long as they fix 3B by moving Devers to DH, SPs will want to come and pitch in a tough ball park like Fenway. Throw in the fact that the Butcher of Boston will be playing 3B and I know I would hesitate to pitch in Boston.
3B is the single biggest issue to fix to bring in quality pitchers..
Agree on making a huge pitch for Big Max but stay away from Stroman.
Stroman is another wouldn’t touch. he’s going to get really overpaid going by his history and Scherzer, who has had a magical career, won’t come cheap. Someone will probably pony up 35m (or so) on a 2-3 yr deal for him, which is just crazy for a 37yo pitcher, regardless of how fantastic he has been.
It seems like every mid-rotation and above FA is set to be wildy over paid this year. Not a bad year to just sit out the market and look at bottom to back end guys.. Like Matz and my hope is most will focus on falling all over themselves overpaying guys like Rodriquez and Thor, which has already begun.
John.. Not crazy go get Scherzer. I think it will be more. Like $115m for three. His signing will probably await the new CBA as Boston, NY and even Houston may want to see the ramifications. if there’s a universal DH, I think he comes to the AL.
More like:
1. Sale
2. Eovaldi
3. Houk
4. Pivetta
5. Whitlock or TBD
You are asking Whitlock and Houck to pitch a lot of innings that they have not done or are use to. You never have enough pitching ever!
Scherzer and Stroman woulld cost a combined 60M a year. Doubt that ownership is willing to do that.
I think the Sox should try to snag Anthony DeSclafani. If he’d accept a 3 year deal in the range of 15-18 million per season, I honestly think that could end up being a better investment than giving out a huge deal to someone like Ray or Stroman. DeSclafani has always been underrated when fully healthy, and seems to be getting better with age if anything. He was mostly very solid for the duration of his Reds career despite pitching in a tough home ballpark, and if you take away his few bad starts vs. the Dodgers last season, he pitched at a near ace level. Compare his career stats to Eovaldi’s, and look what Eovaldi got for a contract. Disco would be the guy I’m going after if I were Bloom.
i like Alex cobb 48m/4 and Stroman for 52m/3 years plus Semien at 2B And Tepera
Stroman isn’t signing for that lol
If the Sox sign Ray away from the Jays it better be for a David price type contract again. 7years/ 213 or whatever that was :D.
Ray’s agent needs to get the Red Sox/Yankees or Angels/Dodgers thrown out there to drive up Ray’s price tag. I don’t think Bloom spends big anywhere so take the rumor for what it is
Matz gives up way too many HR’s to pitch at Fenway.
Isn’t Vazquez the Red Sox pitching target?
If they believe the adjustments Ray made are real it makes too much sense.
1) Add a guy who can give you innings and a power arm with quality.
2) Give you a top of the rotation guy with no injury history.
Astudillo is available
Like usual, Bloom is in on everything but must underwhelm with his offers. First Syndgaard signs with Angels, then Verlander signs back with Houston, EROD leaves us for the Tigers, then Heaney. I am proud of what the Red Sox did but if Bloom had done more with pitching at the trade deadline we might be celebrating a World Series win in Boston. Bloom reminds me of Dan Duquette of the 1990s in on everything then nothing especially when they needed another major starter to match with Pedro. He was embarrassed into going picking up Manny because of how he screwed up royally with Mike Mussina. Unless I am hopefully wrong, he will Dumpster Dive and wait until the crumbs fall to pick. We never know what we are going to get out of Chris Sale who has been hurt since 2018. Hopefully the Tommy John Surgery takes this year.
Al – You do realize every front office is given a budget to work with, right? For years back in the day the Red Sox had great homegrown position players but Buddy LeRoux was never willing to spend so the pitching stunk. Then Mrs Yawkey and the Yawkey Trust, towards the end they finally decided to start spending before the sale to Henry.
Duquette spent big bucks and spent it wisely. Pedro of course was acquired in his prime and Manny’s huge contract has gone down as one of the best longterm investments in MLB history. Do the Sox win two championships with Mussina instead of Manny? Probably not. You have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to bidding wars, looking back DD made the right decision as Manny’s .999 OPS with the Sox certainly trumps Moose’s Yankee tenure in which half of it included seasons with ERA’s between 4.05 and 5.15
As I said earlier, Sox will likely be spending big on hitters – trying to extend Devers & Xander and sign one other elite hitter like Schwarber or even Semien was mentioned a while ago.
So I really don’t think a 9-figure contract for a pitcher is in the budget this offseason, and it’s not necessary. A 1-2 year contract to somebody like Rodon is all we need to go along with Sale-Eovaldi-Pivetta and Houck or Whitlock or Seabold as the 5th starter. I’m sure the Sox will also be reserving some payroll funds for mid-season acquisitions.
TL;DR – It’s way too early to complain about the offseason moves based on assumptions. Give it time, see what transpires. It’s not even Thanksgiving yet.
Do the Sox win two championships with Mussina instead of Manny? Probably not.
==============================
I don’t think it was even close. Moose was with the NYY 8 years, and do you know how many AS games he made? -0-. Manny made the ASG all 8 years..
And no 9-figure pitching contracts. Scherzer is too old, and Ray is too inconsistent.
FPG – Lots of great points! Only issue for me is whether your optimism on spending will actually happen. No proof to suggest it will.
I keep pointing out that Bloom has NEVER done a big deal for a free agent so you may be right that the only big deals in his future are extensions. I’m confident that approach will yield as many division championships and rings as we have won under Bloom. YEP ZERO!!!
Change is needed. A GM who understands how to think out of the box to improve the talent level of the team is critically needed. A non YES MAN is needed. Two deals could turn around the destruction that Bloom created when he dealt Mookie. Trade Devers for Ramirez and contract Starling Marte. At that point, all these other issues become insignificant.
if Bloom had done more with pitching at the trade deadline we might be celebrating a World Series
====================================
We could’ve added all the pitching in the world, and it would not have gotten us past Houston. We scored 3 runs in the last three games, and that was all she wrote. Houston was simply better.
Let’s talk dollars. With their 40 man commitments, that leaves them with a little over $28 million this offseason.
I see a combination of speed but light hitting with Locastro & Duran trading time in CF. Dugie in LF, Hunter RF.
I think we’ll have to embrace the IF as Devers, X, Arroyo/Kike at 2B and Bobby at 1st.
Not the best defense I know, but certainly capable of improvement this coming season.
Pitching is the biggest need atm, and we could grab two veterans that eat innings consistently (140-160), and could really help with the youngsters.
Greinke & Lester for @ $10-$12 million. Grab some low cost middle relievers/spot starter types to round it out and you still have money for a mid season acquisition or two, and that’s if there are no trades off the 40 man to dump salary. There’s not much to dump, unless you count Hunters $7mil, but looking at OBP and other stats, I think this lineup would still mash.
It’d be great to have Kyle in the mix, but I don’t see it.
I honestly don’t know how I feel about getting Robby Ray. I think there is a decent chance that this year is going to be by far the best year for Ray and you are going to be paying a premium for a guy that just isn’t worth that premium price.
The more I think about it I hope that Boston doesn’t sign Ray. I would be happy if they signed Gray or Matz at a much lower cost level. Gray is a ground all pitcher so those grounders to third would be an adventure with Devers but still either of those two should be fine he’ll why not both they should cost less then Ray alone.
Bruin – I agree with you. Can’t imagine a team ignoring his last three years and focusing just on this year. It’s not that uncommon when a player has a tremendous career-best season during a contract year, and it always makes me wonder. Jose Reyes immediately comes to mind.
Bruin1012 and FPG – It all comes back to money and Bloom. If Bloom has never contracted an expensive FA it’s unlikely he starts now. He doesn’t really know how to fix issues and he really doesn’t know how to spend money but he does like to dumpster dive and get potential upside minor deals.
Why will his next year vary from his first two? I don’t think it will no matter how much I hope it does.
We keep talking about what makes sense for the Red Sox which means it’s highly unlikely to happen because nothing in the last two years has made sense. Dealing Mookie? Nope Dealing Benny? Nope Heck even dealing Chavis? Nope Adding Schwarber at the deadline when pitching was needed? Nope Extending Barnes? Nope. Hiring Cora? Nope
I could fill the rest of the blog with more examples but they would only further the idea that things that make sense no longer happen. For any of us to predict what Bloom might do, we need to be totally illogical in our thinking. That means moves like getting a fourth DH or another bad fielding infielder or a dozen cheap bad pitchers. Those are the most likely things going forward with Bloom in the GM position.
At this point, laying out logical suggestions seems to be a waste of time except some of us enjoy hearing what you guys have to say about where the Red Sox should go in the future. So please lets keep talking about what makes sense despite knowing it will never happen!!