Fourteen players were issued the $18.4MM qualifying offer before the November 7 deadline. Those players have until November 17 to gauge interest on the open market before determining whether to accept or reject that proposal. For the majority of qualified free agents, it’ll be a fairly easy decision to reject the one-year offer and set out in search of a multi-year deal.
We’ll keep track of QO decisions as they’re reported in this post.
Rejected QO
- Chris Taylor, Dodgers (link)
- Carlos Correa, Astros (first reported by Jon Heyman of the MLB Network)
- Eduardo Rodríguez, Red Sox (first reported by Jon Heyman of the MLB Network)
- Nick Castellanos, Reds (first reported by Bobby Nightengale of the Cincinnati Enquirer)
- Michael Conforto, Mets (link)
- Corey Seager, Dodgers (first reported by Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times)
- Marcus Semien, Blue Jays (first reported by Shi Davidi and Hazel Mae of Sportsnet)
Decision Not Yet Reported
- Brandon Belt, Giants
- Freddie Freeman, Braves
- Raisel Iglesias, Angels
- Robbie Ray, Blue Jays
- Trevor Story, Rockies
- Noah Syndergaard, Mets
- Justin Verlander, Astros
Teams are entitled to 2022 draft pick compensation for qualified free agents who sign elsewhere, with the value of the pick dependent on the team’s economic status. Teams that exceeded the luxury tax threshold in 2021 (only believed to be the Dodgers among teams with qualified free agents this offseason) receive a pick after Round 4. Teams that neither exceeded the tax threshold nor received revenue sharing in 2021 (Angels, Astros, Blue Jays, Braves, Giants, Mets, Red Sox) would receive a draft choice after Competitive Balance Round B. Teams that received revenue sharing in 2021 (Reds and Rockies) would receive a draft choice after Round 1 if the qualified free agent signed for a guarantee of $50+MM. If the free agent signs for less than $50MM, that team would receive a draft choice after Competitive Balance Round B.
Last month, MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes broke down the penalties each team would incur were they to sign a player who’d rejected a qualifying offer.
Verlander will accept no matter what, he isnt getting that much after not pitching for 2 years
Agreed. Gets paid for his prove it year and goes back on the market with no strings.
Why did Conforto turn his down already? He seemed like a very likely candidate to accept. He isn’t even forced to make a decision for another week. Wouldn’t he have been better off testing the market over the next week before making his decision?
I guess he’s way of flexing
The Mets are a unique case.
Conforto probably just wants off that sinking ship.
Reports are multiple teams are already showing interest in him
Everybody is avoiding the mets. Not surprised conforto rejected offer without even using his allotted time to gage market. Clearly, want to get tf out of there.
He might be fine taking a one-year contract elsewhere. The Boras pillow contract. He’s not going to have a problem matching the QO on a one-year deal, and he may find a multi-year deal to his liking. Only way to find out is to become a free agent.
I disagree. Because of the compensation, few(er) teams will want to surrender a draft pick for an expensive one year gamble on an overhyped Boras client.
Sounds like your real issue is with Boras, @ctyank. Which is certainly not uncommon. Puzzling, however. Why do so many baseball fans hate this guy simply because he excels at his job? I can’t ever figure that one out.
The lost draft pick will probably scare off a team or 2. But how in the world is Verlander “overhyped”? He is a lock for the hall. He has pretty much earned every drop of “hype” thrown his way.
Fans hate Boras because he’s a liar and a jerk. He’s made up ‘other offers’, had teams bidding against themselves, and over valued several clients, actually costing them contracts.
“…a liar & a jerk.” Do tell.
So: a good agent should be completely transparent? “Ah…no…that’s too much…we feel my client deserves a few mil less, please.” What kind of agent would say something like that!? A bad one. Lord. I would fire a sales guy if he said something comparable.
& if teams bid against themselves (see Jacoby Ellsbury) that’s on them, bro. Not the agent.
Boras has had some guys hold out too long. But both Keuchel & Drew – for example – had multiple offers preceding their “hold outs”. They (the players, bro!) just didn’t care for those particular one’s (which is an example of a free market). This happens to every agent. Not just Scott Boras.
If I were a MLB player, damn straight I’d want him as *my* agent. He gets his guys paid. & well. Which is *his job*. & he is really good at it. The best in fact. I guess I just don’t see why being the best is some kind of problem or whatever.
@Ducky: I can’t speak for everyone but one of my issues with Boras is his penchant for flat out lying to teams in order to trick them into bidding against themselves when he has convinced them they are bidding against other teams. Due to anti-collusion rules MLB teams are not allowed to talk to each other when negotiating with players. When the first bidding for A-Rod was going on the Braves cut their bidding off at $150M. The Giants cut there’s off at $190M. Why on earth would the Rangers be willing to go all the way up to $252M when $200M alone would have easily got it done? It came out after the negotiations that Boras was lying to the Rangers and telling them the Giants and Braves were continuing to raise their offers way higher than they actually did. John Scheurlholz said he would never deal with Boras after that. The Braves screwed their entire offseason up that year wasting time trying to sign A-Rod because Boras kept telling them they were still in the bidding. He was literally calling Scheurlholz as well as Giants brass on the phone in front of Rangers personnel and then hanging up the phone and saying they raised their offer much higher than they did. He completely used the Braves and Giants so he could overcharge the Rangers. He lies to all 3 teams. He lied to the Giants and Braves and told them they were still in the running when they weren’t. This caused them to miss out on other players who signed because they spent all their effort on A-Rod. He lied to the Rangers to get them to pay well above market value. The end result caused the Rangers to become a last place team because they had no other payroll to spend on other players. They ended up having to trade A-Rod and still pay him $9 million to play for another team. All these things happened because Boras flat out lied through his teeth. I understand agents doing what’s best for their clients but flat out lying is a bridge to far for me to respect. Boras didn’t even care if his client’s own team was in shambles and destroyed by the contract. He was willing to lie and have that happen. Boras is widely known to do this as a common practice with many of his clients. I do respect Boras’s intelligence and skill at his profession. The sad thing is he would still probably be the best agent in the league even if he didn’t use lying as a tactic. The lying shows a serious lack of integrity to me. There are plenty of agents who are honest and don’t do that. I don’t hate Boras like some people but I definitely look at it like teams should only negotiate with him “at their own risk.” He is known to lie to owners so you may think your in on a player all offseason and pass on other players as a result. At the end you could find out you were never in and would have been better off negotiating with someone else who actually practiced good faith. You could also win the negotiations and get the player but think he’s still somewhat tradable because Boras told you several other teams who valued that player almost as much as you. Once the deal is done you could find out that contract will never be movable because Boras lied and you just paid $100 million more than anyone else was even willing to consider. A lot of other fans don’t like him because every year they are forced to look at terrible players on their team who not only suck but are so overpaid it prevents their favorite team from adding more players to make up for that Boras clients lack of production. Brewers fans are probably really annoyed Jackie Bradley Jr. is eating so much payroll even though he can’t hit at all. Nationals fans have to be sick to their stomach they still owe Strasburg $35 million a year and he may never even pitch again. The fact terrible Patrick Corbin makes that money as well has to be annoying. All those things prevent fans favorite teams from adding players who might actually help them win. Fans can’t believe how dumb their favorite teams owner gets when he starts negotiating with Boras and as a result don’t want Boras anywhere near their front office. I respect his ability but not his methods. I also would probably feel even more negatively about him if my team couldn’t add new players because they were locked in to paying one of Boras’s bum clients like he’s some sort of All-Star for the next several years. Boras will always be disliked by many people for some of the things he’s done in the past. The most notable thing is definitely lying through his teeth and staging negotiations that aren’t even taking place. It’s kind of ludicrous when you think about it. Can you imagine Scott Boras sitting there on the phone pretending he’s having a conversation about something in front of other professionals when he’s not? It’s so audacious it’s laughable. Boras actually did that.
He abandoned his teammates. All the talent in the world doesn’t justify that
So your problem is you do not understand how negotiations work?
Boras doesn’t owe jack to a prospective team. His duty is to his client. There’s no duty of good faith when you’re negotiating with the other side. Lmao nothing in business would happen! hate the game, not the player, specifically the best player
Ever since I found out you’re in law school, it has effected how I read your posts, @McCourt.
But. Anyway. Yessir. You got it.
Well, it’s on the GMs for being naive and looking to get the best deal possible.
Look = determine what you will pay for a product and offer that amount, the fair and correct price for you.
How many idiots pay.through.the nose for stuff on eBay BECAUSE they get involved in a bidding war and a desire to “win”. If they were not looking to low-ball in the first place, that doesn’t happen. Offer the value as perceived by you, then walk away.
It is100% on the GM for being an idiot. AND if owners did not play the boys club, they would have the sense not to hire these idiot, “sports professionals”. 100% on the owner.
The difference between being in law school and being an attorney is knowing the difference between voracious client representation and making representations that the represented knows is false. I’m not saying that the ship has to be given up but you represent a client and represent a known falsehood to a third party, you’ll no longer be an attorney and wish you hadn’t wasted your time and money on law school. Side note, what was your take away from your legal ethics class if you’ve gotten that far?
@yankeejim Assuming every accusation you leveled is provable—they’re not, but let’s assume the are—how is it you can’t realize every sin you list causes a contract to be written ONLY if the front office of the signing team is completely incompetent?
He’s a performer, but his job is to get max value for his clients, and on that metric he is the best of the best.
All of your posturing aside, had you been blessed with a hammer curveball or the ability to drive the ball 450 in games, you’d hire Boras as well, to maximize your return on what may be the one and only shot at a major score.
Good GMs are getting better at calling Boras’ bull.
As a fan, I want **everybody** to make less. Players, agents, teams, regional sports networks.
We are going to need character limits because of this guy. Sheesh
If I had to guess, he had a talk with Boras and is banking on himself he’ll do decently on the FA market.. Plus who knows but I think he may of already made his mind up even before FA began with everything going on with the Mets.
I hate these short answers , could you expand on that please ?
Everyone hates him because “loyalty” isn’t in his vocabulary. Matters to some, especially fans.
@BeforeMcCourt: Like I said, I don’t hate Boras at all. I just fully support my teams decision to refuse to negotiate with him. He frequently lies so I suspect they judge his character and don’t believe they can trust anything he says. For all I know that could be one of the reasons they just won the World Series. Had they signed a Boras client they may not have been able to afford the players that ended up winning it for them. I think when most people say they “hate” Boras they really mean they hate it whenever their team strikes a deal with him because it very frequently ends up being a bad investment and bad news for the future of their favorite franchise. We have some serious die hard fans on this site who care more about their team winning a championship than almost anything else in life. The word “hate” rolls off the tongue easily when people are passionate about something. It’s definitely at least equally the GM’s fault for signing these dumb contracts. At least the GM’s have the excuse that they don’t have all the information like Boras does and that puts them at a disadvantage when negotiating. When the Rangers signed A-Rod they believed there were multiple teams out there who valued him at least around $240M. They figured if the team tanked they could trade him without having to eat much of his contract. Only Boras knew this was false which clearly gave him an advantage. I’m just surprised more teams haven’t refused to negotiate with Boras over any big money free agents. You can win a World Series without one. The Braves just proved that. It might even make it easier since you save so much payroll space that you can add guys at the trade deadline. Guys like NLCS MVP Eddie Rosario and World Series MVP Jorge Soler. If the Braves had spent some exorbitant amount that Boras frequently demands for his free agents they probably couldn’t have afforded to add those guys and likely wouldn’t have a championship now. No one should truly hate Boras but everyone should block his calls.
Ducky Buckin Fent6 days ago
“…a liar & a jerk.” Do tell.
==========================================
I have no issues with agents. I assume they are going to lie to me, and they should be assuming I will lie to them. For me, it’s like fantasy BB. I put a number on a guy, and that’s it. All the stories in the world won’t get me to change my mind. That’s how the GMs should be.
That said, my understanding is that Boras went to the Orioles owner and the Tigers owner, when both were not at their best mentally, shall we say, and negotiated deals that the GMs never would’ve signed.
Lie to me and tell me your clients arm has never felt better, and I’ll say ‘fine, let’s see the MRIs’. But dealing with owners that are failing is over the line, imo.
Sure Boras doesn’t owe anything to anyone but his client. And teams should not make bad decisions simply because Boras is feeding them lies. I don’t blame Boras for doing his job even if he uses unethical means to achieve his goals.
However, the question is why people hate Boras and Boras clients. That’s easy to see for the reasons stated above. If Boras is “winning” that is coming at the cost of the signing team “losing”. Baseball is a team sport. Boras is focused on the individual at all costs. Again, that is his job but hopefully, that helps explain why everyone other than his clients despises him. I care more for my team than any one individual on my favorite team making gobs of money.
Agreed. Think those silk covered books Boras handed out at winter meetings years ago full of lies about all his clients.. Remember the one leaked about Oliver perez which had him favorably compared to Randy johnson?!? How about Varitek, the 2nd and last time he became a FA in think was ’08 being still one of the best C’s in the game and worth 40m?? tek had to come crawling back to Boston for a 2/5m deal and the 2nd part, was 3m team option not even guaranteed..
Sure, he does pretty well for the headline stars, but other guys? they are better off passing on that dude.
That post should be an article in itself.
Reports from his agent, Scott Bor-ass.
He must have stopped at the, “don’t sleep with your clients”, portion of that class. I think that was the first, second and third lesson in my legal ethics class.
mpleau – “loyalty” has to work both ways. How many times has a team cut a player loose when he still wanted to play but they didn’t want to re-sign him? And why are players expected to take hometown discounts when teams aren’t expected to give hometown bonuses to their key players?
JoeBrady – Your “understanding” that Boras went to owners who were not at full mental capacity needs some evidence to back it up.
bjsguess – Owners are just as likely to lie as Boras. When they claim “biblical losses” or baseball isn’t really a money-making venture, they clearly are lying.
Also, if you care more about your team than any individual making gobs of money, does that include the owner?
But by this virtue, you’re asking for the demand to decrease. The supply remains the same – cable subscriptions, mlb.tv subscriptions, the number of games, the number of tickets available each game, etc.
So if the supply is constant, you want the demand to decrease so that endorsement deals are smaller and tickets and subscriptions cost less. You’re essentially asking for people to like baseball less and pay less money to watch it so everyone else can make less money.
Before, I am not in law school. I graduated in ‘75. But there may be areas of fraudulent misrepresentation which could compromise his certification as a player rep. I don’t know if there is a code of ethics governing Agents. Also he could and undoubtedly has caused some FOs not to deal with him.
But I agree with you and Bucky. As an Agent he only acts in the best interests of his principal (player). Puffing is part of the job description. Pretty sure most FO personnel are aware of this. I doubt his puffing has materially impacted any negotiations.
gbs42
JoeBrady – Your “understanding” that Boras went to owners who were not at full mental capacity needs some evidence to back it up.
===================================
These were stories I read at the time, Subsequent stories, like the MLB asking Angelos’ sons to specify who was running the team, in early 2019. They referred to health issues. But anytime they refer to health issues, with saying it was his lungs, or his liver, or some sort of cancer, then it is always mental issues.
I heard the same stories about Ilitch, but with less support. However, the fact that there is no mention of cause of death, makes me suspicious that he also passed away from mental issues.
Probably thinking he wants to sign before a lockout.
I know – it depends on how you differentiate between puffing and zealous representation and a material misrepresentation. In my experience very few attorneys ever get in trouble for lying but it happens all the time in litigation. Most of the discipline is client attorney issue or criminal convictions.
As of the date of this article, he has 2 days, November 17th.
Conforto’s body of work is pretty solid. He had a down year, but all it takes is one team to overpay. I can see him going to an LA Angels / TX Rangers type team that pays him 9-figures to rake and be a solid player, but never really make deep playoff runs….kinda like the Mets. womp womp.
He doesn’t even know who he’d be playing for next year (no manager yet) and may be he’s just tired of the culture and wants a fresh start elsewhere.
Conforto’s going to get a lot more than a QO on the open market. Like him for 5/$100 ish
Is he really that great at his job? Big market star expects to get huge contract… hires Boras, gets huge contract…. Somehow Boras doesn’t strike me as such a profound variable, he’s just getting credit when the contract that would probably have been there with him or without him is signed.
Boras recently called the system that let the Braves improve through trades a “cancer” because they changed their team “for very little cost.”
Chipper Jones tweeted yesterday in response:
“Been thinking about Scott Boras’s comments on the Braves. Maybe California should institute a muzzle mandate so stupid sh– doesn’t fly out of his mouth as easily. The pest of the West and his comments about the Braves I find especially funny since he is the head of the zit that may cause certain teams to HAVE to sell off players. Been done this way for years. His team (LA Dodgers) traded for or signed 3 eventual/potential HOFers and didn’t get it done. But because it paid off for the Braves, now it’s a problem? Dude, stay in your lane. No one cares what you think.”
It seems there are players that dislike Boras a lot as well. Seriously though, Boras trying to devalue the Braves championship just because he didn’t happen to make money off it is pretty lame. He gets teams to pay players ridiculous contracts that basically force them to trade away other players just so they can pay for it. Then he gets mad when they trade those players. I think he’s just worried other teams are going to look at the Braves championship and follow their lead by not negotiating with him. To Boras World Championships don’t count unless he’s profiting off the team that wins it. Talk about a sore loser.
Cosmo2 – It’s difficult to know how much of a factor Boras is, but lots of players use his agency, so he’s doing something they like. Maybe he gets an extra year or another million or two in AAV for his players.
Missed WAR – Boras called the system that encourages tanking a “competitive cancer.” He’s certainly espousing an opinion that helps himself, but who doesn’t?
Regarding Chipper’s comments, since when are the Dodgers “his (Botas’) team?” I’ve read lots of things about his relationship with Washington, and this thread has mentioned him taking advantage of the Tigers and Orioles owners. Perhaps Chipper should similarly “stay in his lane.” Either that or everyone should be able to state their opinions.
And Boras has never forced a team to sign a player or created a situation where a team *has* to trade a player. How about assigning some accountability to teams?
gbs42- He’s doing something they like, sure? But is he getting them extra money or do they just THINK he’s getting them extra money? I’d say it’s the latter.
Verlander just had a showcase tho. If he is pitching well, I bet a team like the Giants might give him a two year deal (not sure I’d be stoked about that…..). Maybe tho! Apparently he plans another demo soon.
I’m okay with this. I know he WANTS to pitch until his mid 40s but we shall see. 18.4 million is too much for him, but that’s the QO. He soaked up nearly 70 million bucks for 7 strikeouts and 1 inning. It would be a show of good faith on his part to accept and play 2022 as a show-me year. We shall see.
@dylan – How did Verlander record seven strikeouts in one inning?
Also, players’ “show of good faith” and “show-me” years are their minor league time and first 6-7 seasons in the majors.
That’s a lot of dropped third strikes!
Kluber signed for $11MM last winter. MLBTR predicts he’ll get 12 this year. We *just* saw Homer Heaney sign for $8.5MM. Heaney! 8.5!
Perhaps not in AAV but in terms of total amount he sure will. Bet.
@Ducky. Count me in for surprises for Home Run Heaney scoring 8.5 million. Wowsers!
As an Angels fan, I’ve watched a lot of Heaney over the years. He’s got massive upside, but needs a catcher who will take charge. Heaney famously gets up 0-1 and 1-2, but ultimately walks the batter or throws one with too much of the plate. He doesn’t close out the hitter, he gets ahead and then nibbles.
If the Dodgers can get him to change his game plan, they’ll have a bargain at $8.5M.
The place he worked out today is owned by the head of the Yankees Rehabilitation and muscle development
I saw that.
Eric Cressey. Actually, being close to Cressey was a reason Kluber took the Yanks offer over similar one’s. Probably just a coincidence though as Cressey is highly regarded around the league.
Which will not stop me from envisioning a Gerrit Cole & Verlander reunion in The City, however. I could live with that, man.
Verlander’s not taking the QO “no matter what.” It’s going to depend entirely on his health. If he considers himself healthy and is still throwing heat, there’s no way he takes the QO because he can get a lot more on the open market.
If he’s not 100% healthy and his velo is down considerably, he will take it–but that’s the only way.
No. A smart team would offer a contract with team options now to lock him in if he still is good, they will have to pay for the privledge.
I expect every person on the list, including Verlander, to reject.
Zero chance he accepts. Get real
Why would Verlander have a show case if he was intending to accept?
Why hold a showcase before the acceptance deadline if his side had already made a decision?
There is no way Verlander accepts the qualifying offer. After the way he threw the ball at his recent showcase, he’s looking for at least 2 years at $30m per.
After having an anemic year, Conforto would have been better off taking the QO and see how he performs next year for a better pay day.
Assuming he will be pursued by a contender I just don’t see him as an approvment to any top teams and reports say he is looking for big money.
Comforto might be just as bad in 2022 as 2021. Better for him to get paid multiple years even with a lower AAV while some teams might still think that they can “fix” him.
I agree 377. He reminds me of (another Boras client) Stephen Drew who went unsigned into the spring, signed a pro rated (since he missed games) deal with the Red Sox for what the QO, and then got dealt to the Yankees. Conforto should have taken the money, rebuilt value, and then went into the pool free of the QO…
I think next year is weak on outfield free agents so with a good year could have done well. I am glad he didn’t take it but didn’t seem a good idea on his part.
Maybe I’m just a Boras hater, but…. The Mets should have traded him for a pitcher years ago. The Mets suck. I don’t know what’s worse, the Mets could lose Conforto for nothing or Conforto sucked so bad in his walk year that nobody was interested in trading for him. But, Don’t worry my fellow loser Mets fans, he’s not going anywhere. He’ll be back next year to torture us and strike out every time he comes to the plate with men in scoring position. Oh, and for the low low price of EIGHTEEN MILLION DOLLARS. I feel sick now. My stomach is un-Conforto-ble.
@stephen im glad someone else sees how unclutch he is. For guy who has hit in the upper 20s in homeruns, you would think his rbi totals would be higher than a leadoff guy’s. He bats fourth every game and yet barely gets above 50 rbis
If a plant is dying you first check the soil/water. I think Conforto’s struggles were related to the toxic environment.
Oh bullcrap. The guy chokes in the clutch. He doesn’t have the stomach to play in nyc. I’ll take my chances with whatever the draft choice brings. The Mets need a manager with guts and players that have the onions to play here. Weak sisters need not apply.
no one is applying. period.
Giants sign as a project…..if it works out
…if he fails…no loss
Conforto I don’t see the logic. He won’t get 18M/yr on a multi year. So even if he gets more guaranteed than the QO I feel like even a sub par year he’s still get near the same money with the 18M QO and then the smaller contract on top of than in 2023. Just seems like a weird risk when you could have a solid year and have a way better platform year.
Let’s say he signs for 4/60M. He’d make way more money than $18M. AAV be damned, he’d be taking the better deal.
It’s about improving his situation and getting out of NY if you ask me.
I doubt he wants 4 years at that rate, he should look for a 1-2 year deal even a 2/30, rebuild value and then cash in
You don’t think he could get 3/42 ($14m aav) after 2022? If he absolutely craters, I guess not, but I don’t see him having too hard of a time beating that assuming the new CBA doesn’t drastically alter things.
@ FrankRoo;
I don’t know Mr. Conforto, nor do I pretend to understand how he thinks.
I watched him quite a bit with the Mets. He went into a funk this year. The hitting coach was fired early in the season and things for him didn’t get better.
When Wheeler left he made a short comment such as: ‘There are problems there’ when asked why he didn’t take the Mets offer.
No one makes a decision like this for one reason. Contrary to popular belief, Scott Boras does not dictate to his clients (players) what to do. Both clients and Boras himself have publicly stated numerous times over the years that his job is to present the clients with their options, let them make a decision, and than move from there.
Sorry to state the obvious, but when a guy like Wheeler leaves, blooms into a star, and seems to be a lot happier – it’s going to affect his ex-teammates approaching free agency. A person spends 6 years working for an organization that’s going in circles. When given the opportunity to go elsewhere they’re going to see where else they can work.
I believe an exodus of players is coming to the Mets. I’ve seen it over the years in bad organizations. I saw it with the Orioles when Peter Angelos canned manager Davey Johnson and pushed his FO around. I saw it the past few years in Denver, and that’s continuing.
It’s not a joke. What’s happening to the Mets is very bad. I had not realized that Alderson made his son an assistant GM. This is shades of what Ben Cherington ran into as a young Red Sox GM where he was allowed to do the dirty work of building a farm system and argue for trades and FA signings, but owner John Henry and Club President Larry Lucchino thought they knew better and were directing him on what moves to make……including a number of awful FA signings that he didn’t want to make. Then when the team collapsed they blamed it on Cherington. (Fortunately Shapiro gave him a chance with the Jays farm system, he excelled, and he’ll succeed in Pittsburgh……I’m a big fan of his).
Cohen and Alderson run the Mets. They seem to currently be in a state of denial. As I’ve written, it’ll take a deGrom or Alonso asking out before reality hits them. Other Mets players will be leaving as soon as they can get free.
…and when Davey Johnson was canned, Pat Gillick walked out behind him and retired. The Orioles lost the best MLB GM of a 25-30 year period.
Gillick came back to run the Mainers for 4 years and made them into a playoff team. Retired again.
Got talked into taking over the floundering Phillies. Spent 3 years with them and won a World Series.
I bet he gets 5/$100
Thor is a lock to accept. Belt, Iglesias, Rodriguez and Taylor all on the fence. The rest reject
I would not assume that. Mets are clearly in a downward spiral and toxic. Thor might be better off elsewhere. Probably get $18.4m anyways.
Thor would surely get a better deal elsewhere. Probably a three or four-year deal with various opt-outs. In this era where there’s an extreme shortage of quality starting pitching, teams will get creative to sign such a talent. And as you indicated, something must be up with the Mets. Is it too far-fetched to think no one wants to be around when the other shoe drops? It would scare me if this was happening to my team. It scares me a bit as a fan of the game.
I hadn’t considered a Mets exodus earlier. Stroman and , to a lesser extent, Walker both shined in NYM so I’m not too sure everyone wants out. Imo the QO with his age/injury history gives him the biggest opportunity, $18,400,000 this year and a monster deal next year after a good showing.
If you believe Syndergaard’s comments from a week or so ago, he’s going to accept it. In fact, he pretty much directly said that he’ll accept if it’s offered.
Iglesias should reject. Even if he ends up with slightly less AAV he’ll get plenty of multi year offers in that neighborhood.
Maybe Conforto wants the chance to win. The Mets were relegated to AAA. Could be a year or two before they’re back up. Or not…
If Belt is determined to stay with the Giants, he may actually accept the QO and then work out an extra 3 years at $18M a year or something, Basically his last deal adjusted for inflation. 4 years/$72M with the QO hitching his wagon to the Giants ahead of negotiations.
He will not sign more than a 2 year deal. He gets hurt too often and is too streaky to be getting 3+ years. I think if it goes to a bidding war Zaidi needs to just back off. Let him go to the Rangers or Astros to go home
The Giants have no money on the books! Unless they give Fred the Brave an offer he can’t refuse, Belt buckle is coming back.
I don’t think Z gives Belt four years period, especially if he accepts the QO (thus adding another year to his retirement date). He’ll be 34 this upcoming season. No way they’re paying him into his 38-39 year old years. He’s too fragile. Hurt half the time. Bat was great this year for **97** games. Two year deal is max (thus, I think he’ll walk and get three somewhere else.
Wait the Rockies get rev share? Lol
I think Conforto signs with Seattle. And agree Belt accepts Qo
I wish the Phillies could offer the QO to Rhys Hoskins.
You want the Phillies to pay Hoskins $10M more than the $7.5M in his contract?
The players should negotiate the QO out. If they waited this long to be free agents, why should they be bogged down with a QO where the signing team loses a draft pick? Marvin Miller would never have agreed to that.
Free agency should be free agency. No restrictions. Players never should have agreed to it. I believe that it will either be gone, or heavily changed.
Remove the penalty loss of pick, and give the QO-offering team a compensation round pick whether they player accepts or rejects, as a reward for having offered. That way it becomes an incentive for teams to keep their players instead of an incentive to let them go for draft picks, and it doesn’t hurt the player either, it’d incentize higher salaries. And then allow multiple QOs.
It would be better for baseball to have a compensation system designed to keep players with their teams so that fans have a core to root for. Unfortunately, MLB only seems willing to consider that if it’s a way to keep salaries down.
The opposite of this is – why do players seek the most money they can get (I think an obvious answer)? It’d be better for baseball if they put more emphasis on staying with their teams so that fans have a core to root for. At the end of the day, this is a massive business and the players have a union and negotiate a CBA to play under. I can’t blame either side for looking out for their best interests, even if I disagree with the way they’re doing it. More so, I will generally defer to the parties that have an actual monetary stake in the outcome.
If a team signs more than one FA w/ QO attached to them, how is the draft pick compensation decided?
What if Detroit signs both Correa and Verlander? What picks do the Astros get?
They would then lose their next highest pick. Detroit would forfeit their 3rd & 4th highest picks
The more you look at this system, the less sense it makes. Why are teams even entitled to compensation for losing players to free agency? They had years of an exclusive opportunity to extend them while they were under team control. Then they are rewarded for not doing so? What’s the logic behind this?
How else do you expect for the Rays to compete if they don’t get money from the rich teams and extra draft picks for being poor and even more extra draft picks for letting their good players leave?
A non-serious answer to a serious question.
BlueSkies – Just because teams have an opportunity to extend the player doesn’t mean they have the financial means to do so.
True, but the most financially challenged teams very often trade their top players while they are under team control. Every team gets compensated for losing a controlled player to free agency, but it’s actually the wealthier teams that are more able to afford to carry the player that far. It’s really quite difficult to see the sense in this system, when you think about it.
1) just because a team had control over a player doesn’t mean the player wants to conduct negotiations during the season. You read all the time about players instructing agents not to engage in contract discussions either after ST starts, or after the season starts.
2) some players are ‘ok’ but then breakout during a season exceeding expectations. Sometimes you sign a guy on a make-good deal, and they do. (Injury return, time overseas, etc) you wouldn’t pay ahead of time not knowing they were that good. Would you?
3) similar to number 1) some players like to go year to year. Cite to mookie betts, who generally rebuffed offers and wanted each year of arb. Some guys just want to hit FA.
4) if a team and player disagree over the players value, and a team is willing to pay a top-flight mlb salary but the player says not enough, why shouldn’t the team get something for being willing to pay?
5) sometimes it isn’t a disagreement over salary, but over years offered. Again, if a team is held hostage to a long term deal sure to contain overpay/declining years by an agent/player… well, it’s not the “fault” of the team that a player leaves.
6) why wouldn’t we want to incentivize a team to keep their best players to FA? Why would we want to push teams to become feeder farms to bigger clubs? Isn’t the goal to try to get everyone to push their hardest to be as competitive as possible as long as possible
7) perhaps the best answer to this all rolls back to history. You formerly didn’t have a CBT, and payrolls could, in theory, go to the moon – think steinbrenner or, perhaps worse, the first years of LAD post-mccourt. Sometimes they did. You needed some mechanism to help teams that couldn’t spend to the moon, and to hold back the handful of teams that could draft, bonus to infinity, and sign FA to infinity. So, you had the ranked FA system with A/B designation. Then, a future CBA modified it to this because teams wouldn’t scrap the old system completely, but, players wanted some changes and teams to have skin in the game if their FA was to be encumbered comparative to their unranked peers.
If you were a fan of a small market team it would make more sense. Guggenheim isn’t buying the pirates and spending 425m/yr running it between payroll and operating costs to stay in Pittsburgh. Never happening.
A long answer that strangely doesn’t have much if anything to do with my question. I think it comes down to nobody really knows why, but it has been this way for a long time, so it must have a good purpose. Not that anyone can actually explain what it is.
The teams invest in the players with training and development.
Every team does this, and for their trouble controls that player at a below-market rate for years. Still listening up for a good explanation for why this system exists and what it is designed to accomplish.
In the early days of free agency, teams were concerned about the possibility of bigger teams signing free agents away from the mostly smaller teams that had spent years and money developing them. “If we are going to lose our players, we want something back.” Hence, compensation.
Once in place, teams are loathe to surrender a boon. Why would they willingly give up their compensation? There once was an involved system of tiers for compensation. In the last CBA talks, the system was simplified to the current one tier QO setup.
Beyond the compensation of getting something back instead of nothing (which the NFL also grants), there was a genuine belief that the league is better off with stability – having the best players spent time with a single franchise.
Everytime a player rejects the QO it makes me think of 2014 Nelson Cruz going to the Orioles for $8M (almost half what the qo value was that year)
Still got my Orioles cap I bought that year from a farmers market
$8m and all of the steroids you can eat buffet…
RIglesias, CTaylor and RRay as players that sign.,,
All this Boras hate……
At 69 yrs old and estimate worth @450 million, having made countless players and their families extra money, he has his fans.
Guess he looks in the mirror guiltless…..
I do not like him either….but….
Add me to the list of non mlb’ers who would choose him. Boras has stated he gives his clients all the information he has acquired, yet the decisions are theirs and theirs alone…..
He may be a shark, but man is he good at his job….
Yep, and the owners are still making money hand over fist. No one is forcing them to sign Boras’ clients. Logically, they’re doing so because it helps them make even more money.
I have no problem with Boras. In fact, I may hire him to negotiate a bigger allowance from my wife. I’m grossly underpaid for taking the garbage to the curb on Sunday night and occasionally making the bed.
so how does the QO work with the CBA – like if the QO gets changed are guys that sign prior to the CBA subject to the old rules and those after the new rules or do the new CBA rules cover retroactively players signed earlier in the offseason?
Whenever they sign, is the CBA they are under. That’s why youre seeing a rush unlike any other year. Free Agency is only two weeks old, and Correa the number one FA is about to sign with Detroit. In years past that big of a name, usually holds out until Christmas or later.
yeah curious if that bites people too
Yep
I spew about BORAS, Dombrowski….but indeed, I admire them. Even Poor Al Avila (to some degree).
As a Tiger fan, I despise the moment Vlad Guerrero Jr. comes to the plate……Now if he was a Tiger, it would be the highlight of the season……
It’s all a matter of perspective.
So a team like Tampa is allowed to compete with the big revenue teams, year-in and year-out. Yet, they’re able to say they’re a small market team, get revenue sharing and preferential treatment in the Free Agency game. This system isn’t right.