The Astros are bringing back their skipper, announcing on Friday that they’ve agreed to a one-year contract that keeps Dusty Baker in the dugout for 2022. It’ll be his third season in Houston.
Baker has had plenty of success in his first two years, leading the team to the AL Championship Series in 2020 and an AL pennant this past season. Houston lost to the Braves in the World Series, but there’s little question the Astros have had plenty of success during Baker’s tenure. Over his two seasons at the helm, the team has posted a 124-98 regular season record (.559 winning percentage) and won four of six playoff series.
Of course, Baker inherited a much stronger roster than most first-year skippers receive. The Astros had gone to the World Series in 2019 under A.J. Hinch, and Baker took over a star-studded clubhouse in a win-now situation. With that talent came the challenge of overseeing a group embroiled in criticism and disrepute after the revelation of the team’s 2017 sign-stealing operation. Regardless of the caliber of players on the roster, the scandal could have weighed on the club’s on-field performance. The front office surely gives Baker no small amount of credit for his ability to navigate the fallout of a cheating scheme that preceded his time in the organization and lead the team to continued success.
Given his success over his first two seasons, Baker always looked to deserve another shot in Houston, assuming the 72-year-old wanted to continue managing. As the expiration of his current two-year deal neared, however, some speculation had begun to mount about his future. Baker’s hiring predated that of general manager James Click, and there’d at least seemed some possibility Click would prefer to bring in his own hire in that role. That apparently won’t be the case, as Baker is now slated to return after meeting with owner Jim Crane this morning.
Even before his successful couple of seasons in Houston, Baker had established himself as one of the most accomplished managers in MLB history. A two-time All-Star as a player, he first became a big league skipper with the 1993 Giants. Baker led the Giants for ten seasons, then managed the Cubs from 2003-06, the Reds from 2008-13 and the Nationals from 2016-17. His teams posted cumulative winning records in every stop except for Chicago, and Baker’s 1,987 regular season wins are the twelfth-most in history. Only Tony La Russa has more wins among active skippers.
Baker will assuredly eclipse 2,000 wins early next season, and he’ll have another chance at claiming a first World Series title. The three-time Manager of the Year winner’s teams haven’t been without postseason success, as he’s led four teams at least as far as an LCS and two squads (the 2002 Giants and 2021 Astros) to a pennant. Baker’s clubs haven’t yet claimed a World Series title, though. There’s certainly a fair amount of bad luck in that fact, given the small sample vagaries of playoff baseball.
Regardless of whether or to what extent Baker deserves blame for his teams not yet winning a World Series, there’s no doubt he’ll be motivated to accomplish that elusive final goal. The Astros are facing the potential departures of quite a few key free agents, most notably shortstop Carlos Correa, but they’re sure to bring back another very talented roster even if they lose a couple of their top players. With Baker back to lead the charge, Houston figures to yet again enter the season as one of the top contenders in the American League.
Bob Nightengale of USA Today first reported that Baker was expected to re-sign. Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle was among those to relay that Baker had signed a one-year deal.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
I am no astros fan, but that man deserves a little love.
He’s respected and a really nice guy. But he’s made some really bad managerial decisions, specially when he was with the Reds. That being said, he deserves an extension if he wants to keep managing.
You need to take Elsa’s advice if decisions with the Reds are the best you’ve got.
What manager hasn’t made some stupid decisions, it’s a very long season and not every choice will be perfect. That’s called life. It’s a part of the game. Snit has made some questionable decisions but has been nothing but successful with the Braves and now a WS CHAMPION!! Always comical how outsiders think they could do the job so much better.
Problem is Dusty has a postseason losing resume. Not saying it’s his fault but he just can’t seem to win a full postseason. I haven’t followed him everywhere but I’ve heard he has also overused pitchers
His nickname for the longest time was The Widow Maker for how he used pitchers.
Dusty is constantly given great teams and can’t get over the hurdle. He blew it with the Giants in 1993 and 2002. Giants let him walk after they got tired of his act. He was then given a great Cubs team and lost that clubhouse. Went to DC and was given a great team – cried he didn’t get a closer. I think two seasons later with a lesser talented club the Nats won the World Series.
I don’t think much of Baker as a manager. Decent guy though.
Why did MLBTR never do an article on “How the Braves built their NL Champion Team?” I brought this up when they did one for the Astros after they won the AL Championship. The Braves won the NL Championship and never got an article. Then the Braves won the World Championship and still don’t have an article on either. Why is the Astros AL Championship worth writing about but the Braves combined NL/World Championship gets no article? When they wrote that article for the Astros I told everyone I was going to call bias if they didn’t do the same thing for the Braves. Everyone said they would. That was before the World Series even started. Why does the Astros AL Championship get it’s own article before the World Series even starts but the Braves NL Chamionship doesn’t get an article at all? Sounds pretty biased to me. They can’t claim they were waiting until the World Series was over so they could combine them into one article because the Astros got theirs before the World Series even started so no one knew they would lose. There’s already enough bias from the national announcers. Now we have to deal with it from MLBTR, too. I guess the Astros AL Championship was so much more worthy of an article than the Braves. What a joke.
It seems you’re right. Here is the article to the Astros: mlbtraderumors.com/2021/10/how-the-astros-built-th…
It’s dated almost 2 weeks ago from October 23rd.
Missed WAR — your favorite team just won the world series why in the f do you care? Did you not like the parade?
I liked the parade. It’s over now so I’m back home. I just thought of it when I saw the Dusty Baker article is all. I said I was going to call bias if they didn’t so I kept my word. Everyone on the other article was telling me they would write one for the Braves. They did it the day after the ALCS for the Astros. The ALCS Champions deserve a full article the day after but the NLCS/World Champions don’t? What could the logic behind that possibly be? You have to admit it looks pretty biased.
Definition of insanity –
Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results!
Dusty will never win a World Series!
Yes, but where else do you see somebody looking that old and broken down wearing a players uniform and big wrist bands? It’s like seeing Ted Auerbach coaching in a Celtics uniform back in the day.
His name was actually Dan Auerbach, Ted was just his nickname, cuz he was known as a teddy boy as a youth
You’re both wrong. it was Red.
Red but the damn autocorrect was auto wrong again…
Hammer: You know what they say about big hands?
More expensive nitrile gloves to cover them.
Kinda like Reinsdorf rehiring TLR?
A manager who is good enough to make it to the WS with 3 different teams is good enough to win one. He isn’t getting bounced in the first round. The playoffs are a crapshoot
Dusty’s only taken two teams to the World Series (2002 Giants, 2021 Astros), and he’s been bounced in the first round five times (six, if you include losing the 2013 NLWC game). I’m not saying he isn’t a great manager, and I do think he deserves an extension, but get your facts right.
@InherentVice He’s not a great manager. He’s not even a good manager. Any old schmuck could have managed those teams into the playoff.
Fair enough about the WS count but dusty was several fluky plays away from a WS appearance with the cubs in ‘03. Any longtime manager is going to rack up first round exits but he makes it deep as well and that was my point, not that dusty has never been eliminated in the first round
@RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBooks Tell that to Jayce Tingler. Seriously though, not even good? Calm down the hyperbole. How many Hall of Fame managers won consistently without exceptional talent on their teams? By your reasoning, Joe Torre, Casey Stengel, Bobby Cox, Sparky Anderson, John McGraw, and any other historic managers were all terrible, because they only won with talented teams.
@InherentVice Yes. The Astros would have made the playoffs the last 5 years if Jayce Tingler was their manager.
Re-upping a manager that just got your team to the WS is very sensible, far from insane. You must be one of those who thinks that a team can be good enough to get to the playoffs, win it’s way to the WS, but can’t win it all by design because the WS is so radically different than the rest of the sport. Now THAT is the definition of something, although it’s closer to stupidity than insanity.
Insanity – The state of being seriously mentally ill; madness
Words from a ChiSox troll who got their &sses handed to them by Dusty. I’d re-sign him just for that. Oh yeah, your pitchers were hurt. Hahahaha, whatever troll boy.
It worked for Atlanta.
Better to lose a series than never make it at all, yes?
A 1-year deal without at least an option is laughable. I know he’s one of the older coaches in the game, but they’re setting him up knowing that Correa will bolt, possibly Verlander/Greinke, and others, so they can move on from him after 2022, without a ring.
Maybe one year is all he wanted. Perhaps, at some point, he or the team will address it.
I’m not even sure it’s been confirmed as only a one year deal.
Something.. something.. Dusty Baker.. Mets Front Office..
Lol
Dusty Baker is not a good Manager
No other manger has had such great talent and consistently lost!
these following teams have had and have some of the greatest talent ever to grace baseball!
Giants Lost
Reds Lost
Cubs Lost
Nats Lost
Astros Lost
He would be good with a young rebuilding team but not any playoff capable teams.
To credit him with winning percentage and success while taking over a WS champion? Any one on this board could win with the Astros.
Dave Roberts here?
Thing is, Dustys done it with 5 teams. Much larger sample size than Dave Roberts.
Consistently lost? He literally just led his team to the WS.
And lost And lost And lost like he did with 4 other teams.
That has never been done in the history of baseball!
Led his team? A team that was already stacked with talent and a WS champion?
Any 5th grader could have taken over the Astros and won the west and beat a bad White Sox team from a poor division!
cant win if you don’t get there
Every season every team but one ends its’ season with a loss. Only one team a year can win the World Series championship. I’m neither a big fan of Dusty nor am I a big detractor. The bottom line is he has 3 Manager of the Year awards, a career winning record, has taken all 5 teams he has ever coached to the postseason, has played in 2 World Series, and SEVEN OF THE LAST EIGHT seasons (across 3 teams) he has coached he has made the postseason. Dusty may not be a great manager, but he is, at a minimum, very good. It appears it would be more accurate to say he has “won and won and won like he did with 4 other teams”, that is, unless you’re a “glass half empty” kind of guy.
You must be a 5th grader looking for a job
Baker resume he will get your team into playoffs during his tenure.
Any Owner or player would take that.
… if your roster is significantly more talented than everyone else in your own division.
Do you mind being a little more specific about what makes Baker a bad manager? I feel like just pointing out losses is unfair, because while he has not won a World Series, his teams have historically been competitive and often forced winner-takes-all games. That said, I am not usually a good judge of a good manager vs. bad manager, so someone more keen on that subject could possibly share their thoughts as to what Baker could have done differently.
He did get swept by the 2010 Phillies, and his 2013 Wildcard loss led to his firing, but otherwise, his body of work in the playoffs does seem to be rather impressive:
– 2002 Giants – World Series, full 7
– 2003 Cubs – LCS, full 7, lost to eventual champs, team was still cursed (just kidding)
– 2012 Reds – LDS, full 5, lost to eventual champs
– 2020 Astros – LCS, full 7
– 2021 Astros – World Series, made it 6 out of 7 after forcing a game 6 with a strong come from behind victory, away, when facing elimination.
Ok, strap in. Maybe his worst mistake was in 1993, before the Wild Card. Giants won 103 games, and it was going to down to the last day of the season – win, go to the NLDS, lose and go home. The Braves were, for whatever reason, tied with them in the NL West. That Giants team had two 20 game winners – Burkett and Swift, Dusty starts a rookie named Solomon Torres. Giants lose.
2002 World Series, Russ Ortiz absolutely cruising in Game 6, Giants up 3-2 in the series. Pulls Ortiz in the 6th for absolutely no reason. Disaster ensues, Angels win in 7.
2003 Cubs – bullpen management
2010 Reds – Mat Latos game
2014 Nats – bullpen management
To sum it up, Dusty Baker is a well respected baseball man and absolutely should be. He’s a great players manager, has decent instincts absent his pitching management. He was the absolute right person for the Astros job this season because he is so well respected, and they should definitely resign him. But that poor guy cannot win the big series, at least yet.
See, this is a great explanation of Baker as a manager! Kudos to you! Saying “well… he lost!” does not paint a full picture.
I am going to push back A LITTLE (but ultimately cede to your explanation) that in 1993, Burkett and Swift were not on regular rest, and Torres was a young hard thrower, so while Baker lost big on that gamble, I can see why he went there.
And don’t mind me crying in the corner when you reminded me of taking out Ortiz in the 2002 World Series…
The fact that I could do that all off memory while at work tells you how singed this is into my psyche. I know Burkett and Swift weren’t on regular rest, but you can’t throw a rook in a winner take all last game of the season against the Dodgers of all teams. Also, any idea why the Braves were in the NL West? Doesn’t Georgia border the Atlantic? I’m still salty about that.
Hehehe, I am very impressed that was all from memory, and I for the life of me have no clue why the Braves were in the NL West (West of the Atlantic, perhaps? Maybe???).
And I see the Torres decision as similar to Francona throwing Merritt (and his 11 innings of big league experience) at the Blue Jays in the ALCS in 2016 – try to go with an unknown with budding talent, hope for the best. The difference is (1) Francona wasn’t facing elimination, and (2) his gamble actually paid off. But yeah, not the wisest gamble when your team needs to win.
@Will_Clarks_Gauchos Mat Latos was a Padre in 2010. Not a Red.
2012. You win. Feel better?
Don’t forget favoring Rolen over Frazier in the playoffs, not trying Chapman as a starter, Leading off Willy Taveras and Corey Patterson, and batting the two lowest OBPs in MLB #1 and # 2…and that was just here in Cincinnati…
Actually Russ Ortiz had given up back to back hits and was at 98 pitches when he was removed from that game — don’t think that can count as being pulled for no reason.
My research suggests that it was a combination of the Cards and Cubs wanting to be in the same division and the Mets wanting the Cards, Dodgers and/or Giants with them. Cards/Cubs had enough clout to get their way and Mets had enough to stay in the east and get the Cards.
I wonder if Atlanta ending up in the west had any impact on Delta Airlines having their main hub in Atlanta?
@disadvantage He always inherits loaded rosters in bad divisions which proceed to choke in the playoffs.
@RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBooks – I still find it hard to find multiple winner-takes-all games, two World Series, and two LCS’s “choking in the playoffs.” He may have mismanaged at times, but “choking” seems a bit over the top.
@disadvantage It’s choking because all of those Baker managed teams were LOADED and then lost despite being considered the favorite.
Again. Hand him a team that DOESN’T have a loaded roster and ISN’T in a bad division besides that one team and see what happens.
@RemovePitcherWinsFromTheRecordBook Your “logic” that if a loaded team doesn’t win the WS it is somehow completely the managers fault is faulty. Many “loaded” teams over the years have not won the World Series (e.g. 1959 Chicago White Sox, 1985 St. Louis Cardinals, 1987 Toronto Blue Jays, 2021 Los Angeles Dodgers, etc.). Managers and players are human and have daily ups & downs in their performance, and games are played on the field, not on paper. Your implied claim that a loaded team is somehow destined to win it all and if it doesn’t the fault lies solely on their manager also ignores the abilities of the opposing teams manager and players. Also, your sweeping generalization that Baker always is given a team with a “loaded roster” and is in a “bad division” is ludicrous with no supporting data to support that outrageous claim.
The bottom line is Dusty Bakers past work speaks for itself, he is not a great manager, but neither is he horrible. He is a solid manager who is good to very good at worst.
@Dunedin020306 No manager has so consistently inherited loaded rosters and so consistently fallen short as Dusty Baker.
I REALLY would like to see how he fares managing a team that doesn’t have a completely loaded roster or at least has some legitimate competition in their own division.
All managers are only as successful as the talent they are given can take them. All managers.
In the four WS losses, the Astros scored 2,0,2,0 runs. That isn’t Dusty’s fault.
lol
I don’t think that is an accurate statement. He came in under trying circumstances and he has done a very good job. He made the playoffs both years. Once you’ve gotten to the playoffs
@Bill Kane Oh please I could have managed the 2021 Astros to the playoffs.
So then, according to you, the manager has basically no effect on a team’s success so what difference does it make? Why complain about a managers ability if it never matters anyway?
Maybe not “no effect.” But not enough to make a difference in whether or not the Astros make the playoffs. If they weren’t head-and-shoulders above the rest of the division talent-wise then maybe the manager could make a difference.
Fair enough. I more or less don’t think managers make much of a difference. Maybe Billy Martin did. But it’s not usually the manager that makes or breaks success.
I’m happy for Dusty. 2000 wins, 3 Manager of the Year awards and 2 pennants should get him into the Hall.
Get him into the Hall of Shame!
Oh wait we don’t credit anyone with success anymore just the fact they are nice!?
I think the Dodgers are going to hire him next after Roberts!
Roberts at least one his WS and only with 1 team not losing with 5 teams! Yikes that is BAD!
Every single sentence ended in an exclamation point!
It was a damp and chilly afternoon, so I decided to put on my sweatshirt!
Yes and the one he did win was a whole 60 games, it shouldn’t count the wouldn’t have one in a full season
Really, he’s the one positive I’d see while watching the Astros. By that, I mean he’s the only person there I’d root for.
The Astros are done. He should go to an up-and-coming team like the Pirates if he wants to win a ring.
lol
I like Dusty, but I was hoping to turn the page and let Espada have the reins. I’m a little disappointed with this after the Strom news.
Dusty’s done a good job. I think better than Hinch. No drama, liked by players, management and fans. Give him another year. The team wasn’t expected to do as well as they did.
Better than Hinch?! Ummm… no. This team became who they are because of Hinch; Dusty lucked into a team that had matured enough to mostly coach themselves and they gave him quite a ride. He’s a nice old guy who tells great old baseball stories, but it’s time for him to go hang out with his grandkids and tell them his old baseball stories.
You referring to the Hinch that didn’t stop the cheating that he knew was going on?
Actually, this team became who they are because of cheating. At least Dusty has a track record of making it without live feeds in the dugout.
Dusty deserves to win a ring but not with the Astros
The Astros will win the division easily again next year. The Astros have no competition with or without Correa
Don’t sleep on Seattle. They could be big players this off-season via trade and in free agency.
They were beyond lucky to get where they were this past season. They are trending in the right direction, but still won’t be close next season.
Love the comments about Dusty not being a quality Mgr. Have you looked at some of the teams he had? Not only has some had poor talent but some the clubhouses were so broken Casey Stengel wouldn’t of went there. Yes he hasn’t won a title, open your eyes and look what he has done with these franchises. Helen Keller could see it
Poor talent; open your eyes! Look at the WAR on any of the players he managed!
Do I have to name the talent on the Astros?
Nats who later won under another manager less Harper!
Max Scherzer, Stephen Strasburg ,Bryce Harper, Anthony Rendon, Sean Doolittle, Howie Kendrick, Daniel Murphy, Trea Turner, Blake Treinen, Jayson Werth, Mark Melancon, Jonathan Papelbon; etc.
Giants with Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, Robb Nen, Kenny Lofton, Russ Ortiz, Joe Nathan, Tim Worrell, Livan Hernandez etc.
Cubs with Sammy Sosa, Moises Alou, Mark Prior, Kerry Wood,Kenny Lofton ,Nomar Garciaparra, Greg Maddux etc.
Red with Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Aroldis Chapman, Todd Frazier, Johnny Cueto, Ken Griffey Jr., Jim Edmonds
This feels like another weak argument. You are listing very good players on play off teams (well, not all of them were on playoff rosters, and some of them did not play on the same team together – Kendrick, for example, was on the very Dodgers team that beat the Nats in 2016). Every single playoff team will have a slew of very talented players. That is how playoff teams work – acting as though all of Dusty’s teams had infallible rosters that he somehow lost with is misleading. Some of those teams were not the favorites to win. Some of his playoff wins he was the underdog. That is also why games are not played on paper, because who had the Giants winning 2010, 2012 and 2014 (this coming from a Giants fan)?
For starters, as far as the throwing spaghetti at the wall approach, some of those big name players were not in their prime. To name a few:
– Papelbon was awful for the Nats, and was out of the league after 2016
– Griffey was past his prime and always injured for the Reds
– Joe Nathan did not become elite until 2 years after his World Series appearance (and was not very good leading up to the 2002 World Series)
– Livan Hernandez was an innings eater, but outside of the 1997 playoffs, was never actually more than a #3 starter (he had an ERA+ of 89 in 2002… not the best indicator of talent, but good enough to note that he was below average).
– Maddux or Garciaparra were not on a playoff roster (and when they were on the team, the team itself was very bad, and they were each past their prime)
And again, all playoff teams have a list of talented players. The 2016 Dodgers, for example, had:
Grandal, Utley, Seager, Kendrick (he was also on your list for the Nats), Justin Turner, Pederson, Kershaw, Jansen, Blanton (when he was actually good), Alex Wood, etc.
– And I would also take the 2016 Dodgers over the 2016 Nats every single day
Dusty has made some horrible in game decisions in playoffs past. But he’s also consistently gotten to the playoffs and his teams generally like him.
It isn’t an either/or situation with Dusty. He’s both.
Yes and managed a universally hated team, without Verlander or Springer, into the World Series.
Seems like a nice man whom the players like and respect. Never had a good reputation handling pitchers but took over a tough job and succeeded
Good. Everything I’ve read is that he’s a man of integrity and talent. If he wants it, he deserves the opportunity to continue his work reforming the Astros. I’m not ready to root for them to win it all, but if they do it under his leadership I’ll be sure he deserves the accomplishment.
Give him a bat and let him take some cuts next year at DH
Horrible decision. It took him until game 5 to make adjustments in the World Series. Also has favorites in the bullpen when they make no sense at all (talking about Raley). Hope this isn’t true
Agreed. He’s made some unjustified decisions because he uses favorites despite the situations. Slow to adjust and gets out managed.
@Randy Marsh
Favorites you are right!, he has always had favorites in the pen; back with the Giants against the Mets he left Rob Nen in the bullpen and lost with Felix Rodriguez!
Lost to the Mets in the division series with a far superior and favored team!
Bobby Valentine managed him right out of his shoes just as Mike Scioscia did in the WS!
Never understood his Raley fascination. I don’t think he’s a bad manager, he’s just not a great manager. He was the perfect manager to lead the team after the sign stealing crap.
I agree with jjd002, which may have been their most important year, given that situation.
That just assured Houston’s not winning the World Series next year.
Some wonder if he’s hiding the transmitter to the buzzers inside those wristbands. Why else would a guy in his 70s not doing anything physical enough to break a sweat need 2 humongous wristbands?
Ya never know. Maybe he has a camera in his toothpick.
He’s getting signals from across time. His Astros wristbands are temporally connected to the wristbands he wore managing the Nationals, Reds, Cubs and Giants.
Would really like to see how Dusty fares without inheriting an absolutely LOADED roster in a weak division.
Weak division? The Astros play in the West not the Central.
A’s are fading. Mariners are on the upswing but not quite there YET. Angels and Rangers are non-factors.
#disadvantage Read the rest of the posts; I am not the only one!
Are you telling me the Astros and Nats did not have great talent?
Talk about a weak argument!
The Nats won without Harper with another manager!
I just threw out a bunch of names and you ignored all of the stars and went for a few outliers I named; talk about your weak arguments.
I never said or implied “infallible rosters”; no team has.
I just implied he can’t manage the big ones with a talented playoff team as he was beaten by a lesser team in the Braves stats wise who only finished with 88 wins!
But my congratulations to all Braves Fans after 26 years you deserve it! Thanks for beating a cheating team and a failed manager.
He was manged out of his shoes and lost to Bobby Valentine of the Mets!
Are you telling me the Giants were the underdog to the Mets?
As you said “And again, all playoff teams have a list of talented players.”
As far as the Dodgers go a lot of their fans would agree Roberts is right along with him
He couldn’t win the big one with any of them 5 teams 5 teams!
Other managers have including Brian Snitker!
Nice post!
You like exclamation points!
Interesting!
Big mistake to sign this old geezer. Why not get some new blood, someone who can handle a pitching staff?
He will have cut down on his naps in dugout.
With Strom gone he will be making pitching decisions which he isn’t good at.
So the Astros are going without a pitching coach?
Bold strategy Cotton! Let’s see if it pays off for them.
As a Dodgers fan trolling the Astros, I gotta say Dusty was the perfect hire. That said,I lost alot of respect for him when he started yelling at Joe Kelly insulting his physique. Of course Joe Kelly went on to make a goofy face and get suspended for it. Where as you know the team full of cheating players for an admitted 2 years, likely more, got 0 suspensions
Also wonder if MLB will investigate the incessant whistling coming from the Astros dug out this post season. Brobible did a break down. Seemsike they are again signaling the hitter what pitch is coming. Manfred is a joke so I know the answer already
Ah yes, the dreaded whistling: how did that work out for the Astros? The spy plane must’ve ran out of gas. Also, they didn’t receive punishment because of them getting immunity due to the MLBPA. Talk to the MLBPA if you want them to be suspended or something.
I am well aware of the reason:Because Manfred granted them immunity. Not sure what the mlbpa has to do with it…also knowing what pitch is coming is a huge advantage but not the end all be all. See Mariano Rivera.. Clearly the stros players are talented, that’s not up for debate. The debate is will they investigate it. It does seem fishy no? From a team that admitted to cheating.
If you were aware of the reason then you’d know exactly what the MLBPA has to do with it. You said they didn’t get any suspensions, right? That’s what the MLBPA has to do with it. MLBPA wouldn’t let them be investigated unless they got immunity. The debate isn’t will it be investigated, but rather why should it be investigated. Actually think for a second about how easy it is for a fan it is to disrupt a scheme built on whistling, and yes, fans do whistle at games. If I was the Astros and I was gonna cheat again, it wouldn’t be built on whistling. After all, such a scheme sounds illogical and not worth it, no?
What I am aware of is that Manfred didn’t want to upset the union as far as has been reported. The mlbpa had no involvement. That’s the printed story.
Fair points. But the same could be said for banging on a trashcan no? Is whistling any less fallible than banging on a trashcan? Any less illogical and not worth it?
It stands to reason that someone who knows the pitch coming was whistling and I don’t think those videos are fabricated. Someone whistled once when a fastball was coming and whistled twice with an offspeed, so that would be a very clever fan
Where have you been?! It is common knowledge and has been widely reported in the Media that MLB Commish Manfred and the Players Union made a deal that gave the players 100% immunity to finger the coaches and non players in the sign stealing scandal.
Alex Cora was suspended after he left for Boston.
Carlos Beltran was fired by the Mets.
AJ Hinch was suspended by MLB and fired by the Astos for “failure to supervise closely”. Hinch was not involved in sign stealing.
GM Jeff Luhnow was suspended, fired by the Astros and black listed by MLB despite denying any involvement.
IT WAS THE PLAYERS WHO PLANNED AND EXECUTED THE SIGN STEALING, NOT THE MANAGER, COACHES, NOT THE FRONT OFFICE.
(They were the “scapegoats” and “fall guys”?)….
By the way, the Yankees cheated with roided up/drugged up players for something like a decade and no one was punished?!
Definition of HYPOCRISY!
First of all, as I just explained, the MLBPA had involvement. It’s all over google. The trash can was part of a larger scheme that involved centerfield cameras, which is why the scheme was wrong in the first place. Take those cameas out of the equation, they could still bang when facing Darvish, and there would’ve been no problem. Also, fans would never bring a real trash can to a game to bang on to confuse the Astros. You misunderstood what I was saying. Fans actually do whistle at ball games. Because of that, a whole scheme built on whistling is ridiculously silly because you could get confused. The other reason why investigating would be a waste of time is MLB investigated it before, and could not determine the source. This would be no different. No, those videos are not fabricated, but it is very unwise to launch an investigation and go in blind, hoping to find anything. If you find nothing, it makes you look like a jack@#$%. Granted, he already does to those who don’t understand why the Astros players got no punishment. The potential dreaded whistling scandal will go down as “They didn’t win the world series so who cares”.
Well I agree with you that Manfrdd said he was worried about it being problematic with the union if they disciplined trashtros players and granted them immunity for that reason but I guess you do not recall that the MLBPA said afterwards that they had no role in granting immunity despite what Manfred implied but did not actually say. So unless you are casting doubt on the printed story all over Google then say that, and don’t say I need to google. You should Google smarter before accusing me of having the story wrong. And you recognize that with the manager and gm as scapegoats the real offenders got off Scott free. They are tainted and so is their championship. We were robbed of a fair competition and the cheaters got off free. It’s not unreasonable to think they are still cheating especially give the brazen nature of the first confirmed cheating scheme. The facts that it is fallible is a weak argument. So is banging a stupid trashcan. Just cuz someone else can whistle doesn’t prove their innocence. Whoever was whistling was whistling pretty precisely with regards to what pitch was signaled by the pitcher. They are trash and deserve no respect and seems like they are still cheating. Sure the Yankees were roided up but pretty sure those found to cheat were punished and that’s the difference
Dusty Baker is an ungrateful loser and a bad manager with a perpetual victim mentality who has failed to win over and over and over again despite having great team after great team after great team. He said for years (before the Nationals hired him) that he would manage any team in MLB, yet no team hired him because of his shortcomings. Then the Nationals not only hired him on a 2 year deal, but also made him one of the highest paid managers in MLB (when nobody else would even hire him). When the Nationals decided to part ways (not even fire him, as his contract was expired- just not re-sign him), he made it a big media spectacle and accused the Nationals of underpaying him, and even tried to make it about his race (as usual). Now it’s the Astros’ turn- they never should have hired him- as not only is he a bad manager (who has also ruined pitchers’ arms) with a perpetual victim mentality, but he also makes it as big a headache as possible when it’s time to part ways. By the way, Davey Johnson (nearly a brand new manager at the time) won a World Series with pretty much the same Nationals team that Baker failed to win with- except Bryce Harper wasn’t even on the team anymore when they won the World Series. Terrible decision to hire Dusty Baker.
Davey Martinez.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Mmm, bitter?
The playoffs and the Word Series are a “CRAPSHOOT”.
Experts, Hall of Fame Players, Managers, Front office Execs
all say that this is true,
(Smoltz was saying this while broadcasting the World Series).
Any team that gets hot at the right time, can win it, even teams that struggle to play 500 ball most of the season like the Braves.
The system is flawed and should reward teams that play best over 162 games.
It does not.
Teams like the Giants and Dodgers who won 107 and 106 games get knocked out on some fluke.
An 88 win team wins the Series because it “gets hot” at the right time.?!
Baseball playoffs are a joke where the strongest most deserving teams
don’t always win the championship or even make the playoffs….
Teams like the Dodgers, Old 1990’s Braves teams and others are the best team in some years and get bumped from the playoffs or World Series by a flukey team more often than not.
Braves teams of the 1990’s were better than this current Braves team and they struggled with Bobby Cox to win only 1 World Series?!
Not taking anything away from the Braves and their Championship, but, often times the World Series Championship team winner has no real rhyme or reason to it.
I kinda hope he will win with at least one world series before he retires
He deserves it.
Not surprised to see them retain the manager coming off an AL pennant. Even if it was probably more despite him than because of him.
Step one is complete. Step two is to relocate and rename them the San Antonio Scorpions.
They can’t rehire AJ Hinch, so I guess it’s better than any known alternative.
Also, I sincerely hope this extension is not why Brent Strom decided to call it quits.
Nice guy with the wrong team! I guess Baker really needs the job!
I think I understand – every manager and GM is crap until they win a WS. And half of them are still crap afterwards because they were just lucky. I’m anxious to see if Snitker and AA are now geniuses or still crap.
They won a WS that no one, even themselves, expected them to win.
The Braves of the 1990’s with multiple Hall of Famers on that team struggled
and 14? Division titles and Hall of
Fame Manager Bobby Cox struggled to win only 1 WS?!
Go figure!
Let’s see how well he does without Strom
Run Dusty Run.
Only a 1 year extension?!
Dusty deserves at least a 2 or 3 year deal.
Shame Dusty is sooooo desperate that he stays with such a disgusting group of “human” beings…
Mistake!