TODAY: The Angels also have interest in Marcus Stroman, Alex Wood, and Noah Syndergaard, according to The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal.
NOVEMBER 9, 8:58pm: Minasian reiterated his desire to land an impact starter when speaking with Alden González of ESPN this evening (Twitter link). “Frontline starting pitching is tough to acquire. It’s very difficult,” the GM acknowledged. “That being said, we’d like to significantly improve our rotation. That’s an area where we’ll definitely look for a certain type of quality.”
2:16pm: It’s become something of an offseason tradition to note that the Angels are in the market for rotation help, and that’s again the case as the 2021-22 offseason commences. Second-year general manager Perry Minasian again told reporters at this week’s GM Meetings that pitching help is his top priority — Minasian offered a similar outlook in early October — and perhaps more importantly suggested that the team isn’t operating under any payroll constraints (Twitter links via Jack Harris of the L.A. Times). Asked about the budget, Minasian simply replied he “wouldn’t rule us out of anything.”
It’s hardly a surprise to see the Angels again in the market for pitching help — especially with regard to the rotation. Halos starters ranked 26th in the Majors with just 776 1/3 innings pitched in 2021, and their collective 4.78 ERA ranked 22nd. In terms of fielding-independent metrics like FIP and SIERA, the Angels were a middle-of-the-pack club, and the same was true of their strikeout percentage. No team in baseball saw its starters walk a higher percentage of opponents than the Angels’ nine percent mark, however, and their rotation ranked 15th in hit batters despite tallying the fifth-fewest innings of any team in MLB.
Minasian confirmed to Harris and others that the team was represented at yesterday’s Justin Verlander showcase, and MLB.com’s Jon Morosi tweets that the Angels have made some early inquiries with free-agent lefties Robbie Ray and Eduardo Rodriguez. Any big-market club with a need in the rotation figures to check in with the representatives for this trio of pitchers, of course, but it’s notable that all three of Verlander, Ray and Rodriguez have received qualifying offers from their respective clubs.
If the Angels were to sign anyone from that trio, they’d need to forfeit their second-highest draft selection and $500K of their international bonus pool. For some teams, that’s a firm roadblock, but it’s at least somewhat telling that the Angels don’t seem fazed by that reality. Their early interest in this group meshes well with Minasian’s sentiment that they’re not ruling anything out as they look to address a longstanding rotation need.
In the bullpen, the Angels have made a qualifying offer of their own, extending that $18.4MM proposal to closer Raisel Iglesias. Minasian hasn’t received any indication as to whether Iglesias will accept or decline the offer — the latter seems likely — but emphasized (via Harris) that the Angels would like to have Iglesias at the back of their ’pen again in 2022, whether he accepts or declines.
The Angels’ rotation currently projects to be headlined by MVP frontrunner Shohei Ohtani, with younger options such as Patrick Sandoval, Jose Suarez, Jaime Barria, Reid Detmers, Griffin Canning and Janson Junk among the options to round things out. It’s an inexperienced group, to say the least, so it’s likely the Angels will be in the market for multiple veteran arms to join the group in the offseason. Alex Cobb previously expressed interest in returning to the club but will at least be able to field interest from other clubs now that he’s a free agent.
From a payroll vantage point, the Angels currently owe a combined $108.95MM to five players: Mike Trout, Anthony Rendon, Justin Upton, David Fletcher and Ohtani. Add in a modest projection of $7.7MM in arbitration salaries — including a combined $2.8MM to non-tender candidates Junior Guerra and Phil Gosselin — as well as a slate of pre-arbitration players, and next year’s projected payroll jumps to somewhere in the $125-130MM range.
For a team that carried a $182MM payroll in 2021 and recently saw Albert Pujols’ decade-long megadeal come off the books, that’s a fair bit of flexibility. And, considering further that Justin Upton’s backloaded contract ($28MM in 2022) is off the books next winter, the outlook is a bit brighter yet. The Angels will still surely want to consider a long-term deal to keep Ohtani beyond the 2023 campaign, currently his final year of club control, but there ought to be room to bring in an arm of some note.
That said, with all of Trout, Rendon and ideally Ohtani on the books for the long haul, it might be difficult for the Angels to sign two high-end pitchers to long-term arrangements. It’s feasible that they could sign someone like Ray or Rodriguez to a long-term deal, ink another impact starter to a shorter-term arrangement — Verlander, Max Scherzer and Carlos Rodon are among the candidates for that type of deal, speculatively speaking — and then look to the trade market for another arm. The Reds, Marlins and Athletics could all look to move some starters this winter, and the Halos of have several promising young outfielders, including Jo Adell, Brandon Marsh and Jordyn Adams. Any of the previously mentioned young rotation options could also be included in a package for a more established arm.
Regardless of how things unfold, the Angels have a good bit of payroll space at their disposal for at least the next few years. The manner in which they address the rotation this winter and the outcome of their inevitable extension talks with Ohtani will dictate how things look in 2023 and beyond.
Milwaukee-2208
they say this every offseason, then sign bats, and claim pitchers that have been DFA’d by half the league
But hey, at least they got Trout and Ohtani
The Mets "Missed WAR"
The Angels need pitching? Who knew?
Ron Tingley
At least it’s an article about something we want to read, unlike the useless paragraphs you write out everyday on this site. Zing! Go Angels!
MrAngelFan
Yep, it is Ground Hog Day starring Bill Murray all over again. The Angels keep repeating the same narrative. I am a little more optimistic than most here on the forums. The Angels have more money this off season and there are a lot of viable starters and RPs available in this year’s free agency than in prior years.
For me personally, I would like to sign either Scherzer or Verlander to a 2 year deal. I am not as Gung Ho on Robbie Ray. He had a Cy Young year, but I am not going to commit to 5-7 years for one good year in recent history.for a 30yo. Stroman would be my other target for free agency. His main problem in his career has been run support, if Trout and Rendon are healthy that shouldnt be an issue.
Halo11Fan
No team can build a staff through free-angency, However you can build a bullpen.
The Angels fail at the former and don’t even try on the later.
MrAngelFan
“No team can build a staff through free-agency,”
The Giants did, the Blue Jays did. It is not sure thing, but it can happen.
Dustyslambchops23
The jays had 1/5 of their rotation through Free agency.
Ray, Matz and Berrios were traded. Manoah drafted and Ryu signed in free agency.
I guess you can maybe include Ray since his contract expired and they resigned him but it was so early in free agency that it would be hard to argue that he explored the market
empirejim
@Mr Angel Fan I doubt 2 years is going to lure Scherzer, maybe Verlander gives that a look. Stroman? I thought the Angels wanted to compete. Stroman is the same guy the Angels run out there on a regular basis: A #5 with the occasional game like a #2.
MrAngelFan
@Dusty Yes, I counted Ray since I recall him signing a one year deal with the Blue Jays last year. Also, Stripling was also traded for Goselin, so I guess they only drafted one out of 6.
Blue Jays had an amazing year. They have the 2nd and 3rd place MVP finishers and the Cy Young winner.
MrAngelFan
@empirejim Three of the last 4 years that Storman has pitched he has an ERA+ of over of 130+. That is more than I can say for Ray or Gausman. He is better than most give him credit for.,
Halo11Fan
The Jays did? The Giants turned a bunch of scraps into pitchers. Pitchers like Heaney. How is that working out for the Angels?
5toolMVP
@Halo that’s nonsense!
Any team can build a staff through free agency… not an entire staff, but that’s not what is needed, only 1/5 or 2/5 is needed to compliment Ohtani and Co. and also turns a weakness into a strength. Adding 1-2 starters will take some pressure off the not-so-ready younger pitchers and help the bullpen as well.
That being said they absolutely need to retain Iglesias and add 1-2 relievers to the mix… this isn’t just a 1-2 starter problem but adding via free agency solves many problems quickly. (Provided they don’t sign and suddenly need TJ!!!)
stewartnbuck
I believe Miami paid for 2 championships and so did Arizona
MrAngelFan
@stewartnbuck I guess not everyone is aware of Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling on the Arizona Diamondbacks.
Halo11Fan
I don’t even no how to respond. You can’t build a staff through free agency, you don’t even argue against that point. Then You suggest the Angels can be successful supplementing their staff. Which is an entirely different point.
Maybe they can, maybe they can’t. But they sure don’t seem to know what they are doing for me to believe they can. After the imbecilic off season last year, how can anyone be confident they have a clue?
As far as Iglesias, what good is Iglesias if they can’t get the ball to him. They would be much better off taking that money and getting three RPs that have a history of success. Not relief pitchers who don’t.
Halo11Fan
They traded for Schilling. I guess everyone is not aware of that fact.
Halo11Fan
They did pay for championships. But what year are you talking about? Kevin Brown was a great singing, but it was far from a free agent built staff. And the 2001 team didn’t have much of a staff and their best pitchers were home grown.
You people are pretty much making my point.
You can’t build a staff with big free agent signings, if you get lucky, you can find an high priced ace and of course you can supplement your staff.
slimmycito
Blue jays bullpen was trash idk what you were watching. At least you didn’t write 3 paragraphs about it though thank god
5toolMVP
@halo The Angels done need to “build a staff through FA” they only need to add 1-2 starters and 1-2 relievers.
im curious, tell me who do you see as the starting 5-6 for the Angels in 2022 as it stands today?
Ohtani-Suarez-Sandoval-Canning-Detmers?
Do you think that is sufficient to win 93+ games and play deep into the playoffs even with a loaded Bullpen?
Who do you propose the acquire in free agency?
Personally I would like them to sign 2 SP (Gray and ERod)…affordable upper-mid tier guys I’d target. Then I’d be looking at 2 maybe 3 RP such as Neris, Jansen, Graveman or a few others and keeping Iglesias. Then once pitching is legit addressed (finally!) I would focus on a SS.
Halo11Fan
I’m more bullish on the Angels rotation than most. But I don’t think it will be good. I think it will be adequate. I like Gray.
I would like for the Angels to acquire one good starter and four or five bullpen guys.
Like last year, my priority would be the pen. What good is an adequate rotation without a pen?
5toolMVP
I agree with the bullpen. I just disagree on some of the Angels starting depth. They have 3 starters not coming back for 2022, Bundy, Heaney, Cobb.
I’m sure Canning/Detmers will be solid starters soon but I’d want them at AAA to start 2022 and prove some consistency or dominance. I think both of those guys and a few others were rushed due to team necessity, not because they were ready.
So YES fix the bullpen, but fix the rotation too…sign a starter or two give the team some strength and depth.
Halo11Fan
5MVP
That’s a good plan. I hope they do both.
DDD09
Stroman is a rock solid #3 that’ll be resigning where he belongs – the Mets.
junkmale
Oh, brother. That 03 Marlins team was almost entirely system developed besides Pudge and Conine at the deadline. Clueless.
dennis63480
One year the Angels might be successful in getting pitching
FredMcGriff for the HOF
Anyone have any guesses when the Angels will make the playoffs next?
Milwaukee-2208
id say around the time gas prices return to normal…so maybe 3-4 years?
Halo11Fan
Before McGriff makes the Hall of Fame.
Treehouse22
As soon as they get a pitching staff comprised of major league pitchers
bkbk
Everyone is acting insane. They make it 2022. With just 60% of Trout and Rendons missing WAR the Angels make the wildcard. This whole angels are so far and sad is misguided.
5toolMVP
2022!
GASoxFan
Angels prioritizing pitching headlines are like seeing a headline “xyz removes themselves from consideration for the NY Mets…”
Maybe they ought to try and poach some assistant pitching coaches out of an organization like Houston or Tampa and scatter them in the organization, either as coaches or in assorted plethora of VP slots in analytics dept. That second part isnt sarcasm, for whatever reason I think they need to do a better job with some of the raw material they get and the need wouldn’t be as great.
Ohtani-san
I have zero hope for the winter meetings. The angels have let us down in the off season, time and time again. So this year I’m going full on pessimism, and then maybe get pleasantly surprised.
boachthecoach
Oh boy! Surely they won’t miss out on the big name pitchers and end up signing a bat for an absurd contract
baseballpun
*Seager to Angels for $600 million*
wineluva
*Kyle* Seager
kingcong95
Just like hitting rewind on the same movie over and over again while expecting a different ending.
DarkSide830
My money’s on Stroman, who will almost immediately get injured and then not be the same thereafter.
darkstar61
Stroman will go elsewhere for more money, so they’ll switch to Baez who will not hit many HR in AL West parks. Meaning in a couple years the team will package a big prospect or two with him just to unload the contract
If anything is like recent years, at least
B_Diddy010
We all know how this story goes. In need of pitchers, will end up offering Carlos Correa 10yr $300 million and re-sign Matt Harvey
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
Title reads like the Bernie Sanders’s meme.
Angels’ Front Office: I am once again prioritizing pitching this offseason.
Cincyfan85
Luis Castillo for Jo Adell
SoCalADRL
Would love this but no way Adell alone nets him
bkbk
Adell is an overpay. Castillo only ha 2 years of control and has shown two very different faces.
RunDMC
His ugly-face still won’t be in that bandbox with a better defense and would still be prettier than the butterface pitchers LAA has been fielding for sometime now. Watch Heaney turn into a stud in Dodger blue just to spite them.
MrAngelFan
@RunDMC Heaney clearly has the talent and has the ability to miss bats. He strikes out over 27% of the batters he faces. His issue is mental. In high pressure situations, things go bad and they go bad in a hurry.
His SO9 is up there with the likes of Nolan Ryan and Pedro Martinez. It is hard to have stuff that good and be so bad at the game, yet Heaney manages to pull it off year after year.
Yankee Clipper
The problem with Heaney is that the other 73% of pitches are home runs!
Dorothy_Mantooth
@Millville – Adell should be enough to get Castillo; maybe Anaheim has to throw in a young lottery ticket to close the deal but he wouldn’t be a Top 40 organizational prospect. Knowing the Angel’s luck, they make this trade, Castillo gets hurt and that young lottery ticket turns into the next Tatis, Jr. for the Reds. Cincinnati is losing Castellanos so they have a need for a starting OF for sure. The Reds might want to try to swap Sonny Gray here instead of Castillo since Gray makes more money but I’m not sure the Angels would make that deal, giving up a Top 20 MLB prospect for 1 year of a veteran starter. A deal between Cincinnati and LAA of some sort seems to make a lot of sense on paper. LAA owes Cincinnati one after that theft of Iglesias last year!
misterlol
Lol
30 Parks
“Again” – a fine bit of sarcasm.
tigerdoc616
With the Angles line up, the only thing holding them back is a competent rotation. So no surprise the Angles are prioritizing pitching.
ChipperChop
Yep, I think you covered it from every angle.
Gwynning
Speaking of all the right angles, it was 90° in La Costa today.
baseballpun
They should just throw whatever money they need to at Scherzer and Verlander to get them on 1-2 year deals.
HalosHeavenJJ
Problem then becomes getting the last 9 outs or so.
darkstar61
And the other 4 days
GASoxFan
And the second half of the season…. Verlander is great, but, needs to be stretched out. Whoever gets him can’t expect 200IP in 2022.
ElysianPark
Scherzer will get three years from a team that is a contender. That isn’t the Angels.
rpoabr
Should resign Cobb as a start for a mid rotation type, sign one of the big dollar guys, resign Iglesias, and then trade away on one of the OF prospects for another SP.
Simple formula, but easier said than done.
pohle
this is what i’m preaching. we dont need to lock up long term rotation spots, guys like sandy suarez detmers canning will fill the spots in their time. cobb to hold a spot down, a #2, iglesias, then the rest of the bullpen and a defense first ss. if we can swing a trade for a young pitcher (marlins?) even better.
HalosHeavenJJ
I think a fairly realistic yet still optimistic projection would be Stroman and Gray. Both guys provide consistent, quality innings. We haven’t had stability in forever.
Ohtani, Stroman, Gray, Sandoval, Suarez is a nice start to a rotation. There would be a camp battle for the last spot and Barria either gets it or becomes a long reliever.
We desperately need bullpen arms. Having Iglesias is good but we need some guys to build that bridge. I think we’re better off letting Iglesias go and signing multiple guys with that money.
Also, there are some multi inning guys getting good looks in the AFL and doing well there. We also drafted the closers of Vanderbilt, Miami, and Miss last summer. We might have a couple of internal options popping up fairly soon.
i like al conin
I agree. $50 mil sounds like a lot but not when you need 2 good SP, a closer, a SS and probably another bullpen piece.
GASoxFan
It’s also tough because you need to significantly overpay in CA to get the same guy that, say, a TX team might want to go after, and you’d need to assume HOU would be in on Gray.
When 81 games are played at home in a high tax state vs an income tax free one.
Basically it’s about 60k on the first 600k income, plus another over 13% on everything above that with the mental health surtax. So, if I’m a ballplayer with 90 games in CA if I stay a non-resident, (LAA + OAK road) each year, you better be paying me 7% more. Heck, even in GA the top marginal rate is less than 6%.
Makes payroll more expensive when you figure a 200m payroll only buys you what other clubs are paying $175m or sless to get when the players measure their net income… and that doesn’t account for intangibles like the higher cost of living when guys rent somewhere to live during the season.
Sometimes I wonder how much that plays into some of the top free agent targets that chose to sign elsewhere?
bkbk
This is not correct. All you have to do is look at where pitchers sign. The top pitchers have gone to LA, NY, PA and Boston the last few seasons. Please Google before posting.
GASoxFan
@bkbk – do some googling yourself. Let’s just talk these pitchers you speak of.
In the 2020 offseason:
LaD overpaid for bauer – fits the narrative.
Stroman/Gausman took QOs.
Odorizzi went to Houston.
Hendricks went to the white Sox.
Richards to BOS.
Morton went to ATL.
Ray went back to TOR.
Except for the QO situations, the theory is not disproven. TX,IL,MA,GA all substantially lower taxes. Even Canada is slightly lower.
Nothing you say changes the fact that CA has a higher tax burden than most of the rest of the nation, and, when agents review compensation packages with their client, it takes higher gross salaries from a CA team to have equal money hit the players bank account compared to other teams.
Nothing you say about “google” impacts the housing and living expenses being higher in California either. Filled up the gas tank of the 496 big block 4×4 today for $2.96/gallon. Any guesses on what that costs in LA? Also pay $1700/yr in property taxes on a 3000sq ft home on 7 acres with a private 2 acre lake. How’s that go in CA? BTW. A cashed-out refinanced 90% LTV mortgage on the same place is running me $890/month. All of this is on our place less an 20 minute drive from the braves new stadium.
Still want to say CA isn’t drastically more expensive for a player?
Yankee Clipper
GASoxfsn: Good news for the Angels is that so many from CA are moving to TX that soon TX’s taxes will match that of CA through…. Wonderful fiscal policy
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Wow! I’m moving to GA!! Sounds like paradise. I heard the girls are good looking too.
Thesecondjamie
Instead of doing a band aid like Scherzer or Verlander they should target Rodriguez. They don’t need a star for 1-2 years, they need stability
HalosHeavenJJ
Exactly. And some durability.
Stroman, E-rod, Gray. These guys might not be aces but they’ll eliminate all the sub replacement guys we’ve used lately.
5toolMVP
ERod, Gray, resign Iglesias, add in another RP and SS and they can win some games. Plus they have flexibility to make a trade for another SP or other need.
ElysianPark
They aren’t getting Scherzer anyway. He wants to play for a winner. That is clear.
whyhayzee
Why would they bother with Verlander? Pointless. Look at someone who will be around for more than five minutes. Yeesh. Sure on Ray or Erod, that makes some sense. Verlander will dupe some fool team into dropping millions into the bucket on the notion that he will bring them to the promised land. Again, yeesh.
Poundsy24
The Angels need more help than just pitchers… they need leaders and better coaches. They need someone that’s been there before and can help show them the way
darkstar61
First, a new owner. After that the other things you mentioned may start happening
i like al conin
A new owner? He spends and he wants to win. Most teams would love to have Arte.
darkstar61
He only spends on hitters he saw do something flashy on sports center, or who he feels he can make money selling the jerseys of
But he forces the GM to sign such hitters, whether it makes any sense to do it or not
And if the GM doesn’t like the idea of doing it, he forms an alliance with the manager to just cut the GM out of the loop until he gets them to resign or fires them as the newest scapegoat
And where he will not spend is on development, strength and conditioning, or other similar behind the scenes aspects which he can’t check nightly on MLBTV and see the returns on his investment in nice little 10 second clips he can understand
Moreno has been why the team has become irrelevant the last decade
ShootyBabbit
Moreno made his money on billboards-all flash and advertising is his mantra
i like al conin
I don’t even know where to start to disagree here. This is wrong.
darkstar61
You don’t know what to say because you have nothing. What I said is undeniably true
In fact, Arte hates spending on pitching so much that we have this
In last 10 years
5 GMs running the team
4 Free Agent Pitchers signed to multi-year deals
That is it. A team that every single year tells us how they are focused on signing pitching hasnt signed a 2+ year deal to a Pitcher (Joe Smith) for 8 years, a Starter (Joe Blanton) for 9
The A’s, who notoriously don’t sign costly FA deals, signed as many multi year deals to pitchers from Dec 2017 to Dec 2019 alone. And yes, Oakland finished ahead of the Angels every season one of those pitchers pitched for them.
Sure, he’ll sign multi year contracts to reserve infielders who make highlight reels like Cliff Pennington (first position player in MLB history to pitch in post season in 2015, 2 year contract with Angels that offseason) or Luis Valbuena (a 30 year old who posted a .816 OPS out of no where off a fluke .316 babip in 2016, 2 year contract with Angels that offseason) but he will not sign pitching …and yes, that is 2 backup infielders signed to multi-year deals in back-to-back seasons. Combined they saw 1,094 PA, less than 2 full years worth, for the Angels. They made $19 million for it. The team signed a 3rd part time middle infielder off 1 fluke year the very next season too, making it 3 straight years. This time it was for 38 million. That one saw 360 PA, and had us giving our #1 draft pick away to get rid of the contract
The GMs change often, but the same issues persist. That’s because the issues stem from the top
Alkie
Angels offseason:
1) Identify needs (pitching, literally all 13 spots on the roster)
2) Try to sign all the big pitchers available
3) Lose out to teams who actually win and aren’t a revolving injured list
4) Hear it from their fan base
5) Try to make up for it by signing an overpriced-but-good position player they absolutely do not need
6) Panic and sign 3 or 4 starters who scouts say have “great stuff” but can’t keep the ball in the yard or win at the major league level
7) Repeat ad nauseam
bkbk
Like the Yankees? Or Phillies? or Padres? Which teams that went and got pitching in FA won again?
DGHalos714
As a Halo fan losing patience year after year, I hope this is the season where they actually do what they are saying. And not just getting older and veteran pitching. Maybe one but not many. We need young and cost controlled pitching that can get us into the 5th and 6th inning at least every other start. Hard to come by…the only way we do this and get over the hill is by spending some money on an ace to go with Ohtani and then trade for a few mid rotation pieces. Then get a good 2nd baseman or Short stop who can play and not break the bank. Then let Fletch play the other spot. The writing is on the wall that things need to turn around for Ohtani and Trout to have a chance to win and WANT to stick around. At least last seasons draft shows that pitching is finally a priority…lets see what Perry pulls off and what Moreno allows him to spend.
kingsfan1968
Danny Duffy and Cole Hamels are available.
Dustyslambchops23
I have Ray going therein the FA contest, they need to start having a bit more urgency in fielding a playoff team.
Astros may lose their best player, and angels should get their best one back. Add Ray and maybe a mid rotation like Stroman, Gray or Erod and give Trout and Ohtani a chance to play meaningful baseball
dirkg
Yes, same story, but Perry has only been on the job for a few years and his first year was basically navigating through the pandemic.
I’m hoping the FO takes their draft approach and saturates with pitching signings. Go high, JV and/or Max, go low with Cobb and others. Spend whatever Arte allows on starters and bullpen.
Trade for Castillo and trade, not sign, for a defensive SS (DeJong?). Or as crazy as it sounds, Simba was second in defensive WAR at 2.2 this season.
Quality, then volume. Let’s go Perry.
Melvin McMurf
I could the Angels resign Albert Pujols for another 5 years
kellin
Might want to lay off the drugs..
Halo11Fan
Unless you have a very good starting staff, you need a pen. The Angels are not close to having a very good starting staff.
An adequate staff without a pen doesn’t work.. The Angels hope is their staff is adequate.
5toolMVP
You especially need a pen when you don’t have starters since every game the starter will be pulled in the early innings… heck let’s just roll with all bullpen games all year!!
The Angels need 2 starters and Iglesias + 2 more arms in the pen. The money is there.
They also need current players to step up.
stretch123
Elieser Hernandez and Monte Harrison for Brandon Marsh
misterlol
Lol
Jordan 5
Lol why would scherzer want to pitch for the Angels? He wants to win. The Angels are the clippers in baseball. Spend money on players that don’t or never pan out.
Vizionaire
trade for sean manea and spend the rest on a ss and rp’s!
Samuel
Blah blah blah.
Again (as with any team)…….
Until the organization can make their own pitchers better, it’s fantasy to think that they bring some high-priced pitchers in and the team turns around.
If you’re going to ruin the pitchers on your roster, then expect the same when you bring in name pitchers from other teams.
Yankee Clipper
“Until the organization can make their own pitchers better”…
Wouldn’t the acquired pitcher be their own pitcher that made made their staff better?
Samuel
Maybe for a short time……..
Pitchers work with the coaches and catchers literally daily during the season. When a team that can’t get the maximum out of their own pitchers acquires a pitcher coming off a good season, they’ll slowly rework him to a point where he’s not as effective.
–
Example – Cubs under Epstein vs. Astros under Luhnow (and currently)…..
Cubs paid through the nose for name pitchers coming off of a very good year. They may have had a good season or so, but they deteriorated. Astros took on veterans that were pretty much in circles, made them much better pitchers…for years.
darkstar61
Oakland, Tampa Bay, Cleveland and Los Angeles Dodgers fit the successful side of that example as well
With Houston, those five teams make up the five most notoriously analytical clubs
48-team MLB
None of those five teams have won a legitimate championship in over three decades.
darkstar61
They’re all in the top-10 in wins since PITCHf/x changed the game – that despite 3 of the 5 having next to no payroll
QuackingHalos
Max and Verlander, short term contracts and they could also help develop the young pitching. Or Max and Stroman, won’t have to give up a pick for either.
ElysianPark
Scherzer will sign with a contender. The Angels don’t fall in that group.
QuackingHalos
Angels are not in rebuild mode and don’t need a lot to become contenders. If Perry makes the right moves, he just may.
neurogame
Angels CAN be a contender, especially with that offense. They need at least two more quality starting pitchers besides just Ohtani. Canning and the others are not answers.
Ohtani-san
neuro don’t fed trolls, that wasn’t a serious person’s comment
Yep it is
They can’t afford 5 starters and that’s what they need. But hey maybe they get another Rendon again and overpay 2x what they need to.
Paulie Walnuts
Ohtani and Trout, but only 3 more wins than the Rockies.
Halo11Fan
They didn’t have both last year.
MrAngelFan
……………..Only Ohtani.
PiratesFan1981
It’s another year and the same story with the Angels. Few years ago, it was Cole they targeted. Last year, they targeted 3 “A” bracket pitchers. In both years, they signed “C” bracket pitchers who are ideally 5th starters, maybe 4th at best. Angels should find a suitor for Upton and get a major league ready pitcher. Go hard at the best available “A” pitchers and offer Ray and other “B” bracket pitchers contracts. Offer 3 contracts, 1 to top pitcher, 2 to “B” bracket pitchers and gamble 2 out of 3 sign. That pitcher you got from upton trade, now can be your 4th or 5th pitcher. All extra pitchers from last year, slide a few into the bullpen for long relief. Have them work on their mentality to let “loose” and hold nothing back. Some of those pitchers that was in the rotation throwing 92-93 mph, could have their heater hit 95-97 mph by switching to the pen. Have them adjust to letting loose and worry about one inning. Some starters switching to the pen, had better careers in the pen. Granted, they won’t make rotation salary, but a solid 1.3 million is better than playing half that overseas.
empirejim
“That pitcher you got from the Upton trade…” Unless the Angels pay the vast majority of Upton’s contract AND give a couple upper-level prospects in the deal I cant see getting a MLB ready starter in return unless it’s also a bloated contract that needs to be dumped.
You wont get a shiny new Corvette when you dangle a 1997 Chevy Malibu as trade-bait.
Halo11Fan
Upton’s contract is not a problem. The Angels have plenty of money in 2022. Arbitration is going to kill them in 2023.
Can we stop talking about Upton? He’s an overpaid 4th outfielder, and he’s needed as a 4th outfielder. Heck, if he can hit LH, he can play some first.
Vizionaire
lmao, a bucks gan!
empirejim
That’s odd. When I look at the Angels’ signings I cant see that they’ve EVER prioritized pitching. Unless you consider dumpster diving to be prioritizing, that is…
5toolMVP
CJ Wilson 2011 was the last notable FA starter that comes to mind. You may laugh but CJ was #2 free agent that year after a guy named Pujols. Colon in 2004? Was another I think.
MrAngelFan
You guys are not familiar with the workings and the dealings of Mr Dipoto. He brought in Joe Blanton, Ryan Madson, Sean Burnett, and Tommy Hanson in one glorious hootenanny of an off season in 2012.
They say Arte’s heart shrunk 3 sizes in the seasons to follow, vowing to never spend a dime on pitching ever again.
vtbaseball
“Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don’t forget your booties ’cause it’s cooooold out there today.”
“It’s coooold out there every day.”
empirejim
You know what this means….
“Angels sign slugger Nelson Cruz for 6 years and $210 million.”
Bluemarlin528
The Angels need invest in Sabermetric & open minded present day evaluators.
Andrew Heaney is probably going to have his best year this coming year with the Dodgers because they saw something in him they can tweak.
Get with it Perry.
i like al conin
Just like the Yankees did this year with him, right?
Metsin777
The Angels “prioritizing pitching upgrades again”? They have gotten Harvey, Quintana, Terran, Cobb, and Bundy over the past 3 offseasons. I wouldn’t neccesarily call that “prioritizing”
Ohtani-san
“Upgrade” is the relative term here.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Interested in opinions here… Whether it’s just incessant bad luck or something training-staff related or whatever, the Angels have truly lousy luck with the health of their pitchers. Does that eventually filter down to free agents thinking twice about signing there? Do people think there’s enough “Spinal Tap drummer” bad juju surrounding the team that it would honestly affect a signing decision?
barbara12
Why on earth did Perry M. Do exactly what Billie Eppler did regarding acquiring pitchers from the bottom of the barrel?
Yes, it’s dangerous to spend big in pitching but it’s been the same for years.
Also not to keep Inglasias or extend Ohtani is absurd.
5toolMVP
The $28m (all or partial) they currently pay Upton will be sent Ohtani’s way next year and future years.
i like al conin
He didn’t do what Eppler did. All the players Perry acquired were on 1-year contracts. That was on purpose. He has a strategic plan.
5toolMVP
I think Eppler did some 1-year deals that flopped. Let’s hope you’re right about Perry’s plan.
Halo11Fan
At least I understood Eppler’s moves. If Cahill and Teheran repeated their prior years, they would have been fine. Harvey was coming off surgery and the reports were good.
If I agree with the reasons behind a move, I won’t slam it. Other than the Iglesiases, I never agreed with Perry’s moves last year.
jorge78
Be nice if they actually do it this time…..
carllafong
This year will be different. I expect the Angels to push hard in trading for Luis Castillo, and sign either Robbie Ray, Scherzer, or Verlander, and even a third starter like Eduardo Rodriguez. And they will bring back Iglesias and add more.
urnuts
Trade Adell and Barria to the Reds for Castillo and take on Moustakas contract. Maybe try to add Sonny Gray in the deal. Sign two of these SP E Rodriguez, Ray,Stroman, Jon Gray, Lorenzen (make him a 2 way player)
Move Fletcher to SS, Moustakas for 1 year at 2b.
And solidify the pen with 3 solid pitchers.
Bump payroll to 210 million.
MrAngelFan
Angels have no interest in a fat 2nd baseman that can no longer hit and is owed $16M and $18M they next two years. The Angels are not looking to add dead money. They finally got rid of Pujols and still have one year of Upton left.
urnuts
In a perfect world you are correct but with few trading chips they will need to take on a contract or trade 2 or 3 top prospects. If Castillo were a FA he could command a $20 million plus per year contract. Next year he is set to make 7.5 million. Combined the 2 players suggested would be $23 million.
Making trades when behind an eight ball need to be creative. And as I said maybe they could get Gray in the deal. But if they are not willing to give up both Adell and Marsh they will need to eat a contract and hope it works out. Mous contract may be dead weight but not on par with Pujols the last 5 plus years.
5toolMVP
Why would any team consider trading a controllable prospect to take on $16-18m dead weight (Moustakas) just to acquire a SP need (Castillo $7.5m) when they could simply sign a free agent pitcher of the same caliber for 3-5 years of control for $18-25m AAV and KEEP the prospect?!
5toolMVP
It’s funny how some fans think trading a top prospect to acquire a starter is “GOOD” VS signing a similar caliber free agent starter for just money “EVIL EMPIRE”.
AND… there are quality starters available that don’t have a QO so the cost is only $$$. If they sign 1-2 of these free agent pitchers they suddenly turn a weakness into a strength with the ONLY cost being $$$, which they have available to spend. They also keep the organizational player depth.
urnuts
Likely because they need at least 2 quality SP, but 3 would put them over the top. Historically they have not been able to sign a top SP. Likely they would not be able to sign 3 SP’s that are in the top 5 or 6 on the market. Castillo on the market would likely sign at least for 6 years $150 million. So not stuck with a long term deal if some of their young pitching works out. So future salary flexibility. Trading for him they control either signing a extension or letting him go giving a QO.
I wonder why some fans are afraid of giving up a prospect especially when historically you don’t develop pitching but have had success signing FA hitters and have developed outfielders.
IjustloveBaseball
Welcome to debate, but regardless of how the Angels do this year — if Rendon can stay healthy and produce, would the Halos be better off flipping him next offseason? It’d go a long way in clearing the books (assuming they won’t need pay down too much of his contract) and could allow more room for an Ohtani extension and the addressing of other holes.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Well…I just figured out why the Angels guys on the board have always been cool with me.
Between all the “can he pitch though?”, “wasting Mike Trout’s prime”, which is morphing into “wasting Ohtani’s prime”, etc it turns out they are a pretty embattled lot. Huh.
Not for quite the same reasons as Yankee fans, but I do get it. & a lot of you guys have the patience of saints, serious.
Oh. Yeah.
Throw wheelbarrows full of cash at pitching. There are several established modern templates available to build a pen or rotation. Some are relatively inexpensive. None are foolproof. Yet all are viable. With all the holes…well it’ll cost. But your owner traditionally runs high payrolls. You can spend your way to a Wild Card. Then hope to get hot.
Keep your chins up Angels fellas.
There’s hope. Bet.
LordD99
@Ducky, does anyone have problems with you? You’ve always seem straightforward.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Oh, for sure, @MikeD.
I have been muted by 2 posters (that I know of).
That cey hey guy (I sorta let it fly with him the All Star game weekend thread when we all kind of blew up) & A’sFaninUK. But he mutes a lot of us.
Personally, I will never mute anyone. Strikes me as a form of censorship. Hey…I made it through years at RAB & never blocked anyone. So this place is a piece of cake.
Gwynning
Always enjoy your banter whether it’s directed at me and my Padres or not, Ducky. Let the haters be like water off your back. Happy Thanksgiving (soon!)
Ducky Buckin Fent
Hey, it’s my Padres guy!
Hope you’re well, Gwynning. Interesting & important offseason for both of our clubs, uh? I really think San Diego was a better team than their record. (All “you are what your record says you are” stuff aside.) However, I also think the baseball Giants aren’t going away either. Helluva division you fellas have out there.
I have my dinner plans in place. It’s a bit Maddonesque this year.
& a sincere Happy Thanksgiving to you & the rest of the Gwynning household & clan.
Mystery Team
Again??? When have the Angels prioritized pitching? The Angels don’t care about winning they care about making money which is fine but don’t sell your fanbase on winning when it’s the least of your concerns. I can’t wait for Ohtani to leave that team for a team that actually wants to win. Obviously Mike Trout is fine with losing or else he would have left when he had the chance. Actually Trout and the Angels are made for each other. Where else can a guy sit out the whole year for a strain and then talk about “well if they were in the race I could play through the pain”? That team is a joke. Mets and Angels, two of the worst run organizations in the game.
strat272
Duh! The question is why can’t we develop our own pitching ?????
Edp007
Saw the headline , all I could think of was LOL
phillyballers
Go for broke and do a Marlins championship. Stop wasting Trout. Sign 3 of these 4 Scherzer, Stroman, Verlander, and Kershaw. 3 of them could be had on 1 to 2 year deals and buyouts.
ElysianPark
Three of those four would cost $100 million for just one year. Don’t fool yourself.
QuackingHalos
They can’t afford three of them with the holes they need to fill. Maybe two, but it all depends on what they do to fill the other holes. I’m hoping they get at least Max, re-sign Iglesias, one other RP and one other SP. The offense, I think, will be fine with a defensive SS that doesn’t hit well.
letimmysmoke55
Let Trout and Ohtani win somewhere!!!
markakis
Trade for Means or Zimmermann, Angels! That Bundy trade was a huge jolt to the rebuild, I want to fleece y’all again 😀
LordD99
If they’re finally serious, this an off season when they could significantly improve their rotation through some targeted free agent signings.
jdodson1822
I think eppler, Dipoto and regans all have the exact same quotes. Too bad it’s been the same owner each time
darkstar61
We can likely find Stoneman saying it too in his short 2nd run in the position in 2015
Joeypower
Ray is heading back to Toronto unfortunately for the Angels
Vizionaire
please! he’s a 1 year wonder!
Rsox
Hoping to land an impact starter and actually getting Arte to sign off on it are two totally different things
Vizionaire
Mr. Minasian, build a lock-down bullpen as you are known to have done in Atlanta. And don’t take any advices or suggestions from Mr. Maddon!
48-team MLB
They should have been focused on pitching all along. I’m tired of seeing the Astros in the World Series every other year…and I say that as a fan of a team that just beat them. I would like to see ANY OTHER AL West team in the World Series.
Angels & NL West
Anxious to see if Perry strikes quickly like he and Alex used to do in ATL. Also thinking the new CBA could encourage Perry to make some early moves.
Based on Perry’s comments over the past year and how he navigated the 2021 season, I believe Perry will prove to be one of the better GMs in the game. Most importantly, he may have Artie’s full, undivided attention… and support.
Redstitch108* 2
So far Perry has been a mixed bag. Time to put up or shut up. Get the pitching fixed.
MrAngelFan
Agreed. He inherited a lot of crap players last year and a lot of holes to fill with little money to fill those holes.. He doesn’t have that excuse this year. Time to earn his keep.
wsox05
I heard Ohtani for Keuchel was being discussed with the Angels throwing in a prospect.
prov356
No you didn’t.
Angels & NL West
I have read multiple quotes from Perry in the last few days and heard him interviewed on MLB Radio. On every occasion, he emphatically stressed pitching as the priority – SP, RP, high end guys and depth guys.
Perry has put himself and the organization out there. It appears to me that he, for the first time, has Artie’s ear and blessing to acquire pitching via any and all methods available to him.
There is no world where the Angels come up short on pitching… again. They may overpay in free agency. They may give up too much via trades. They may push toward $210 million in salaries. But the Angels are 100% going to have some new pitchers soon.
urnuts
Then the biggest question, will Artie allow the GM do his job or will he once again get in the way?
Artie needs to go or step up and increase additional $$$ for payroll.
Halo11Fan
As long as they include the pen in those talks I’m happy.
prov356
Using history as an indicator, Moreno will not allow payroll to go over about 180m. Angels payroll has hovered between 160m and 180m for the past ten years. We have about 50m to spend before we hit 180m which is not enough to land a top end FA starter, a high end SS, a middle tier starter, and 3 solid BP arms.
Again, with history as an indicator, I predict Moreno will pretend to be in on a few high end starters and lose. He will then overpay for a SS, and sign a number of pitchers who are looking to bounce back to a once mediocre career. I hope I’m wrong. Manasian’s success in Atlanta with the BP is the only reason I am hopeful for a better result this winter. There are plenty of pitching options available so there is no excuse for failure.
urnuts
Your points are another reason Artie needs to go!
Keeping the same budget after he led the charge for dog sh!+ contracts and not manning up for his miss guidance has gone on too long. Raise the payroll to 210 million this year and $200 next. I’m tire of the insanity.
You are correct.
Angels & NL West
prov356, I agree with your “history as a guide” comments.
I think its different this time – finally – for a couple of reasons. First, Perry is a no BS guy. He is very straight forward and doesn’t apologize for it. Perry will tell Artie whats wrong with no qualms. As a successful businessman, I believe Artie respects that and has responded favorably.
Secondly, Perry would have to be the biggest fool on planet Earth to loudly, and unabashedly, proclaim pitching as the Angels top priority without Artie’s blessing to improve it and the resources to back it up.
I’m in the minority, but I believe Perry to be a great GM in the making – something that will become clear, one way or the other, over the next few months.
urnuts
Hope you are correct but won’t belief it until I see it.
Halo11Fan
Claudio, Guerra, Quintana. All obviously bad choices. Not in retrospect but as they happened.
I don’t share you confidence, but I hope I’m wrong,
MuleorAstroMule
Given Quintana’s track record, one year at 8 mil wasn’t that bad. Especially considering the dearth of pitching last offseason that led to Walker getting three years.
But none of those guys were going to move the needle for LA.
Halo11Fan
Quintana wasn’t good for years. And if you can’t pitch in the NL central, the years he pitched, where can you pitch?
Go look at the Quintana thread. To me this was an obviously bad move.
prov356
I agree West that Minasian will be a good GM. I consider his first year as an adjustment period. I agree with Halo that he could have done more with the BP though. This winter, he has no excuses for failure. We have the money and there are plenty of pitchers available to put together a top tier pitching staff. If Minasian fails, no one can argue logically that Moreno isn’t the problem. He is the only constant over our last decade of mediocrity.
MuleorAstroMule
No really, we mean it this time.
Rsox
“Angels are also interested in Marcus Stroman, Alex Wood, and Noah Syndergaard”
Reality; Angels sign Martin Perez and Michael Wacha…
carlos15
Lot of mid rotation arms available, no front end starters.
DC13
Make an impact trade first, then go get a few FA’s.
Adams or Adell plus a top 15 for Castillo.
Sign Gray or Cobb
Take a flier on Syndegard and Verlander with a 2 or 3 year deal better than the QO.
Low cost add at SS – bring Simba back to shore up the D.
Rsox
I don’t think you will ever see Simmons in an Angels again.
A team that literally spent its entire draft on pitching is probably not giving up two picks to take fliers on guys coming off of injuries. Maybe one but certainly not two. The Angels pitching situation is complicated by the fact that they not only struggled in the rotation but the struggled getting the ball to Iglesias in the 9th. And now not only do they have to find someone to get the ball to the Closer but they need a Closer as well
eric e.
….
The Reds are all but giving players away with letting the league know they are trying to slash payroll. Adell alone would be an overpay for Castillo. I’d say you give them a controllable piece and a few prospects, maybe a lottery ticket.
I like Gray or Cobb, but both on short deals. Syndergaard will more than likely sign a one year deal to prove he is healthy. I would imagine Verlander does the same. Would be against their interest to take below market deals over multiple years. No buying low for these guys.
I’d say Stroman, Syndergaard, and Duffy would be nice additions and altogether affordable, with only one of them being long term. If the bottom falls out, flip the latter two and see who is available in 2023. Just my opinion .
Angels & NL West
Looks like the Reds and A’s are open for business. Not sure if being in the AL West with Oakland will hinder the Angels chances of getting a deal done or not. Historically, that was the case, but newer GMs don’t seem to be overly concerned conducting business with someone they will see 19 times.
MrAngelFan
@DC13 I see it the other way around. The Angels will only make a trade if they can’t sign an available FA. There are at least seven available FA that can make our rotation better, Obviously, the Angels aren’t the only team looking for pitching. No team is going to be in rush to make a trade. It is a long offseason and they want to listen to all offers..
The team has shown reluctance to trade Marsh or Adell. They could have traded Adell for Clevinger or Marsh for Max Meyer from Florida. They still need cost controlled players that can offset their large contracts. I don’t see them trading either Marsh or Adell unless they miss on all free agents and become desperate.
I don’t see Simba coming back. He walked out on the Angels because he wanted an extension and the Angels weren’t opening any negotiations. Arte is the type of guy that will hold a grudge forever.
Vizionaire
trade for sean manea and spend the rest on a ss and great rp’s and a closer!
AllAboutBaseball
I read this article every off-season and the Angels end up signing no one
Daniella
On the bright side there’s a few cost efficient options this year. I’d sign Scherzer as the big name and then go for a Desclafani and Wood for cheaper but solid additions
NY_Yankee
There is little doubt the Angels are desperate for pitching ( why else spend your entire draft on pitching?), coupled with wasting Mike Trout’s best years.Which is I expect someone ( Scott Boras for Carlos Rodon perhaps?), to fleece the Angels in such a way that Heaney to the Dodgers will look like a bargain.
Angels & NL West
The Angels are indeed desperate for pitching. I agree that they may over spend on a FA or overpay on a trade, but come hell or high water, the Angels are going to have some new pitchers soon.