Shohei Ohtani created plenty of speculation when he recently revealed that there’d been no extension talks with the Angels front office and added that above all else, his priority moving forward is “to win.” With the Angels now officially posting a losing record in six straight seasons, fans and pundits alike have wondered about Ohtani’s future in Anaheim. The likely American League MVP emphasized following the conclusion of the Halos’ 2021 season, however, that he’d carry an open mind into any discussions regarding a long-term extension (link via Jack Harris of the Los Angeles Times).
“I think I would, of course, talk to them with feelings of openness,” Ohtani said via his interpreter. “Regardless of whether that leads to anything, I individually want to have a solid offseason to make sure we can win next year.”
The matter of Ohtani’s contract for the 2022 season is already settled. Back in February, he signed a two-year, $8.5MM contract that covered his first two arbitration seasons (2021 and 2022) — a decision for the Angels surely have to be thankful in retrospect. Ohtani’s outstanding season on both sides of the ball would have surely led to a much larger salary in arbitration than the $5.5MM he’ll receive next year under that two-year pact.
It was a historic season for Ohtani, who tallied 639 plate appearances as a hitter and also logged 130 1/3 innings on the mound. His 46 home runs at the plate were third in all of baseball, trailing only Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Salvador Perez. Ohtani hit .257/.372/.592 with 46 long balls, 26 doubles, eight triples and 26 steals. He scored 103 runs, plated another 100 and posted the fourth-best walk rate among qualified hitters.
On the mound, his 29.3 percent strikeout rate on the mound was tied for 12th among the 96 pitchers who tossed at least 120 innings, and his 3.18 ERA ranked 22nd. Ohtani’s 8.3 percent walk rate was a half-percent higher than the average starting pitcher but his huge strikeout rate and above-average ground-ball rate (45 percent) helped to make him one of the more effective starting pitchers in the game on a per-inning basis.
If Ohtani proves at all capable of approximating that production in 2022, he’d set himself up for perhaps the most fascinating and complex arbitration case in Major League history. An extension, of course, would preclude that headache for the Angels — but his brilliant 2021 season has also made any potential negotiations as complicated as an arbitration hearing would be.
Ohtani has rather clearly cemented himself as one of the game’s greatest pure talents. He’s two years from free agency, so the first couple seasons of a theoretical extension wouldn’t pay him full market value (although a new deal could theoretically begin next season and replace his $5.5MM salary in favor of a larger sum). Beyond that, the question is just how highly the would-be free agent seasons might be priced. Ohtani’s teammate, Mike Trout, and Yankees right-hander Gerrit Cole received the largest average annual salaries in MLB history, $36MM per season, when signing their respective deals. (While Trout’s contract was technically restructured as a 12-year, $426.5MM deal, that includes the two years and $66.5MM he was already guaranteed at the time of his extension, which paid him $360MM in new money over 10 years — hence the $36MM AAV figure.)
Free-agent seasons that are bought out this far in advance are typically (but not always) discounted to some extent, but the inherent difficulty in assigning a value to Ohtani’s free-agent campaigns is multi-faceted. Not only is he two years from the market, he’s also only had one full, healthy season on the mound. It’s clear that he’s of top-of-the-rotation caliber from a pure talent perspective, but he pitched just 53 1/3 innings combined in his first three MLB seasons (thanks largely to Tommy John surgery).
That lack of durability is an obvious red flag and strike against him. At the same time, if the Angels wait another year to determine whether Ohtani can replicate or exceed that workload on the mound, he’ll only further drive up his price tag — both by proving his durability and moving closer to free agency. There’s also no precedent for a player with this skill set, so his representatives at CAA could argue that any valuations based on comparisons to other players and/or contracts are generally irrelevant.
Stepping back a bit, the Angels’ entire payroll needs to be considered when looking at the prospect of retaining Ohtani on what would presumably be a massive commitment. The Angels will have Justin Upton’s contract come off the books following the 2022 season — which is no small sum given next year’s $28MM salary.
However, the Halos are already paying Trout a $35.45MM salary every year from 2022-30, and they’ll also pay Anthony Rendon $36MM in 2022 before paying him $38MM annually from 2023-26 under his backloaded $245MM contract. Trout and Rendon, like Ohtani, have proven to be MVP-caliber talents at their best. Trout has three MVPs and arguably ought to have more, and Rendon has a pair of top-five finishes, including a third-place finish as recently as 2019. We can’t know precisely what value would be placed on Ohtani’s free-agent seasons — the first of which would be his age-29 campaign — but that an extension would likely mean paying out more than $100MM annually to just three players, at least from 2024-26.
The Angels are a large-market club, but they also haven’t traditionally spent at the same level as other big-market teams like the Dodgers, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox, etc. This year’s $182MM Opening Day payroll was the largest in franchise history, and owner Arte Moreno hasn’t given his front office the green-light on exceeding the luxury tax threshold since way back in 2004 — his first full season as owner after purchasing the club in May 2003.
There’s no way of knowing just yet what will happen to the luxury tax system in the future, as it’ll be a hotly contested topic during ongoing collective bargaining talks between the league and the players association. Whatever alterations do come about will be key factors for Moreno and second-year general manager Perry Minasian to consider in negotiations with Ohtani’s camp, as paying Trout, Rendon and Ohtani on long-term arrangements would make filling out a roster behind that trio all the more difficult.
All of that comes before even considering other needs in the rotation and the absence of proven, cost-controlled starters on a team that has perennial rotation issues. The Angels have a handful of interesting young arms (e.g. Patrick Sandoval, Reid Detmers, Griffin Canning, Jaime Barria), but they’ll likely need to bring in some veteran arms as well. There’s also the matter of a lack of a long-term solution at shortstop and the looming, star-studded crop of free-agent shortstops to consider. It all makes for a fascinating long-term outlook in Anaheim, as should be expected with a talent as unique as Ohtani and a big-market club as starved for a postseason berth as the Angels, who haven’t appeared in a playoff game since 2014.
The original version of this post cited an Associated Press translation of Ohtani’s quote, which indicated he is “very open” to discussing an extension. Our post has since been updated to reflect what we are told is a more accurate but slightly different translation of his response, from the Los Angeles Times, that he would talk to the Angels “with feelings of openness.”
Luke Strong
Rendon and that ridiculous contract they gave him, as if having learned nothing from the Pujols deal, will be the reason he eventually leaves.
The Angels are going to waste Trout’s entire career without a championship. Not for lack of trying, just epic mismanagement, they are one of the worst run organizations in the game.
The Mets "Missed WAR"
I really hope Ohtani doesn’t sign an extension. At least not yet. I definitely want to see what he earns in his final year of arbitration and how he is valued. I’m sure it will shatter the arbitration record but I want to know by how much. I also want to see what other teams are willing to bid to get him on the free agent market if he can keep this up while also maybe even pitching more innings than he does now. If he never hits arbitration and the Angels are the only team who ever bids on his free agent years we will never get to know what his true market value is worth. We will never know how any team other than the Angels values Ohtani so we will never know if they underpaid him or overpaid him. Unless it’s just a ridiculously team friendly deal. Then we will know he was underpaid but we will never know by how much. I want to know exactly what the top dollar any team in MLB is willing to pay for a two way player as successful as Ohtani. Does anyone else agree? Won’t it be kind of a boring let down if only 1 team gets to bid on Ohtani?
JoeBrady
Won’t it be kind of a boring let down if only 1 team gets to bid on Ohtani?
=======================================
I couldn’t care less. I guess it could get interesting if the prices get crazy. But as a RS fan, I just want to sign guys for good value. The drama of how we get there doesn’t interest me.
Halo11Fan
Players get hurt. Rendon was the Angels MVP in 2020.
Look how many times Ohtani has been pitched around. That was Trout for the last decade. How can you mention wasting Trout and then complaining about getting someone to hit behind Trout? Clueless take.
Having a good hitter behind Trout was(is essential.
Luke Strong
Halo11Fan Rendon’s profile was just like Pujols, except he was never even as close to as good as Pujols was. Trout was hitting just fine regardless of who batted after him. They needed to create a more financially balanced team but they put all their eggs in two baskets. And now, as a result of this colossal mistake that there is no getting away from, they’re doomed for years. They won’t be able to afford Ohtani, and if they did, how much money is left for the other players? I could see them trade him this off-season (selling at peak value) because of future financial considerations. (Actually makes a lot of sense). And they had better hope, at the very least, Rendon isn’t stuck with a nagging injury and/or washed. It’s an unmitigated disaster right now for the Angels.
Halo11Fan
Trout was treated like Ohtani. Are you an Angel fan?
An Angel fan wouldn’t miss that. The best hitter the Angels ever had hitting behind Trout was Howie Kendrick. I sure hope Rendon hits better than Pujols. The Shift killed Pujols. Pujols would have had a much better second half of his career if Shifting hadn’t perverted the game. Rendon is Shift proof.
As far as creating a more balanced team… we can have that debate. I don’t disagree. As far as how Trout was pitched to… There isn’t a debate.
Luke Strong
Halo11Fan Anyone would expect Trout to be pitched to with the absolute best pitches every pitcher he faces throws, in the most difficult locations to hit, every single AB because how else do you pitch to someone who hits and walks as well as him? His hitting stats tell me he has been one of the greatest hitters in the game for his entire career (excepting 2021), so it’s a difficult argument to make that he could have somehow been even better with anyone else hitting behind him.
Halo11Fan
Yes and no. The best hitter is never going to be pitched to in certain situations, but the number situations increase exponentially depending on who is batting behind him.
Are you an Angel fan? If so, it’s pretty hard to miss.
Luke Strong
Halo11Fan I am not a fanatic to the extent you are it seems like, as you portray yourself as someone who watches every game. I do not. As such, when you watch every game, it is easy to get caught up in the micro aspects of the game particularly because of all the failure natural to the game. It’s easy to perceive things like line-up protection as legitimate, when in reality, a player’s entire body of work over the course of a full season is ultimately how one can see the big picture while the day-to-day, AB-to-AB micro creates emotion that triggers things… like expecting Angels fans to all see it as you see it, like he has been somehow wronged, like he has been being pitched around, but in reality, he has not been in the big picture, he simply couldn’t have been any better.
Halo11Fan
I get the lineup protection myth point of view. I just don’t buy it. The myth of protection is surrounded by the belief that all walks are created equal. All walks are good. They are not.
Common sense should tell you that it’s easier to hit when pitchers come at you. It’s tough to hit when pitchers don’t care if they walk you. But if you get that walk, your OBP and OPS+ go up, therefore, players do just as well no matter who hits behind them, but in reality, the team suffers. For the batter, statistically, they help the hitter’s stats, but as Twain said, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.
It’s one of the few things regarding sabremetrics that doesn’t pass the smell test.
OntariGro
How does “the team suffer” when a batter on that team walks?
1. The team now has a runner on base. A runner is a potential run. A game of baseball is won by scoring more runs than your opponent.
2. No outs are made when a batter walks. The outs in the inning remain less than 3. This means the inning continues and the team continues to bat. Continuing to bat gives a team more chances to score runs.
Have I somehow caught amnesia and have the wrong definition of walk?
lionelhutz
“The best hitter is never going to be pitched to in certain situations, but the number situations increase exponentially depending on who is batting behind him.”
And who’s batting in front of him. The more guys on base in front of him (unless guys are on with 1st open), the more likely they’ll pitch to him.
Best is obviously if you’ve got guys on base in front of him and a great hitter like Trout behind him, then he’ll definitely get pitches to him.
Mystery Team
Waste Trout’s career? Lol that’s hilarious. Maybe Trout should have got off the bench this season and tried to help his team win. He said himself if the team was in the race he could play through the pain. Well maybe he should have played through the pain in order to help his team get in the race instead of taking the season off for a strained calf. I wouldn’t sign an extension with that team, not a chance. If Ohtani truly wants to win he’ll get the hell out of that pit.
bucsfan0004
After reading that whole article, i have come to one conclusion: Rendon got a helluva deal.
mike156
Given the degree of his talent, and his fame, it’s going to be hard to let him walk. But they might, for economic reasons. The team is just not well constructed. It’s going to take money and time to make that happen, and Trout is soon to be entering the years where he’s still remarkable, but in a slow decline.
D*ckin the dog
Sign him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ya'll a bunch of salty crybabies
So, Ohtani doesn’t care about winning. Got it.
Rick Wilkins
What’s he supposed to say? I want out of this trainwreck? Of course he will say the right things because he’s a respectable young man. I think we all know this dude ain’t staying there long term, and I would say the minimum he will sign for is 40 million/year. Guessing he gets more….
OntariGro
Certainly the first word that comes to mind when seeing Ohtani play: disinterested. Pfffffff.
Halo11Fan
He could have played a couple, three more yeasr in Japan. Then come over here as a free agent. I’m pretty sure he’d be a free agent by now.
People are ridiculously ignorant. But I’ve noticed the loudest voices typically are.
OntariGro
Are you…agreeing with the OP that Ohtani doesn’t want to win, co-signing my sarcasm at his assertion, or just posting info that you think is cool?
louwhitakerisahofer
Shocking… he is very open to an extension after an epic year with no comps. Starting price, $50M per year. Don’t bother Angels, you can’t (won’t) afford HIS numbers.
prov356
lou – no owner is paying Ohtani or anyone 50m a year. That would ruin a team for years to come. Pujols was paid half that and he ruined the Angels flexibility for 10 years.
dodger1958
If they don’t agree to a long term extension this off-season my feeling is he goes into arbitration after next season and walks after 2023. IF he stays healthy, he could easily be a 40-45 million a year player.
At a minimum, if this article is accurate, he is not looking to leave the Angels.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
No baseball player deserves that much and the American public does not need to be browbeat and forced by monopolistic actions to PAY $10 FOR A FLIPPING HOTDOG.
Passive people like you are ruining the game! JUST SAY NO!
dodger1958
RnR players get paid what the market will bear. Who are you to say that multi billionaire owners shouldn’t pay over X amount? When a relatively small market team drawing crowds as small as the Marlins did sell for 1.2 billion (less than 20 years after being bought for a reported 158 million) you know the owners are making tons of money.
No one has to pay $10 for a hot dog or 40m+ for a unicorn player like Ohtani. It is called choice. Players like Ohtani make teams a lot of money.
Badfinger
Sabertooth, you were forced to buy a hot dog? That sounds horrible. Please share the full story. That must have been a harrowing experience.
prov356
finger – I think his point was if he wants a hotdog, he shouldn’t have to pay 10 bucks for it so the owner can recoup a ridiculous player salary on the backs of the fans. Players salaries have gotten way out of control. No entertainer is worth that kind of money.
lionelhutz
Hot dogs aren’t $10 because of players salaries, they’re $10 because enough people are willing to pay $10 at a ball game for it to be worthwhile for the teams to sell hot dogs at that price point. (I mean, in actuality, hot dog’s aren’t sold for $10 at any MLB ballpark. In 2019 hot dogs at MLB parks varied between $1.50 (BAL) and 7.00 (WAS) depending on the park, with the avg. hot dog price being $4.95…But OP was just being hyperbolic and I’ll go with it for this.)
If they could make more money selling more hot dogs at a lower price point, they’d do it. Inversely, if they could make more money selling fewer hot dogs at a higher price point, they’d do that too. Its simple supply and demand.
If a team that sells hot dogs for $10 doesn’t sign “overpriced” players and keeps their budget low, the team isn’t going to pass those savings on to their fans by lowering the price of concessions. Rather, the team is going to pocket those “savings” or invest them elsewhere.
This isn’t even economic theory you have to guess at, just look at the data. In 2019, the Angels had the 9th highest player payroll at $160.3 M while the Rays at the lowest payroll at $64.2 M, both teams sold hot dogs for $5.00. The Mets had the 2nd most expensive hot dog, at $6.75, but only had the 13th (out of 30, so effectively average) highest payroll at $146.8 M. The Yankees were tied for the 3rd least expensive hot dog at $3.00 but had the second highest payroll at $223 M. The Phillies were tied for the 6th least expensive hot dog at $4.00 but had the 10th highest payroll at $159.6 M.
If you want a team to reduce the price of their concessions, stop buying ball park hot dogs, encourage your friends and family to do the same, and start a social media campaign to encourage strangers to do the same. Once enough people stop buying hot dogs, the team will lower the price to encourage people to start buying them again.
LaFlamaBlanca
Hahaha a hell of alot of trolls are gonna be real pissed at this one haha! Angels were the only franchise that believed he could be a 2-way star and gave him the opportunity to do so from the beginning. Angel fanbase was also the only group that believed in his ability to do both while everyone else was saying he should stick to one discipline and give up the other. Everyone likes to insult the team but as soon as they are winning like they were in the beginning of the year, the haters dissapears and try and hitch a ride on the band wagon. This team will have it’s time to shine soon and Ohtani will be at the forefront for years to come.
BuddyBoy
Untrue. The Mariners absolutely viewed him that way. He chose the LA market over Seattle from a marketing perspective
SoCalADRL
Wrong. He chose Anaheim because of his relationship with Eppler and his chance to play with Trout.
Cody1981
Trout? Hasn’t even won a playoff game in his career..who’d want to play with him
The Mets "Missed WAR"
I did read some people suggest he just switch to hitting but not many. I certainly always encouraged him to stay 2-way. I think the league needs more of that and more pitchers could let do it than we think. There are actually some pretty good hitting pitchers out there who never really focus much on their hitting. I also would finally love to see a starting pitcher actually become very successful as a switch pitcher. We have plenty of switch hitters. I know they are no where near the same but we have had switch pitchers make it to the majors recently. They are all middle relievers won aren’t highly regarded though. I think switch pitchers would have an advantage by making every hitter hit in their worst situation possible. Starting switch pitchers should also be able to go very deep into games because they would really only be throwing about half the total pitches on each arm. Wouldn’t it be great to see a 2-way player who was a switch pitcher and a switch hitter? Especially if he could also play an offensive position other than DH. Talk about super versatile. All of those things can be done very well by somebody. I hope one day get to finally see one person who can do all of them. Imagine if Ohtani was a switch hitter and a switch pitcher and instead of DHing most days he played a position like shortstop or center field. That would be fun to watch.
scudz
Yes, he was worried about you not supporting it. LMAO.
CalcetinesBlancos
At least you got over it.
♪
A lot of speculation there, posted as fact. Considering his low salary, many teams likely would have given him a chance to hit and pitch.
slimmycito
It’s not speculation. I clearly remember before he came over there were a lot of teams who were skeptical about letting him do both.
lionelhutz
Also, remember that while his salary was low because he’s subject to the 6-year tenure rule before free agency, which ever team signed him was required to pay his former club a $20 million posting fee.
In hindsight, that $20 million fee was nothing compared to his performance. But at the time, a lot of teams were unsure he’d be successful as a 2-way player in the US and were reluctant to guarantee they’d give their full support to his efforts to be a 2-way player in the MLB. Especially given that he was likely already worth the $20 M posting fee as either a dedicated pitching prospect or dedicating hitting prospect. The teams’ fears were that he couldn’t do both at the same time at the MLB level and trying to do so would hurt his abilities both ways.
sascoach2003
I would offer 5 years at $35m/yr. This takes him to 32/33, where the Angels or he can then decide again or he can walk. It guards against injury and still leaves $80-100m to make up the remaining salaries.I think that by age 32/33, Ohtani becomes more of a hitter, (DH?) and less of a pitcher. I would have to believe that the wear and tear on the shoulder/arm/elbow would pretty much mandate that. Rendon got a fantastic deal that he needs to start being productive on, or it becomes Pujols, part 2.
BuddyBoy
Ohtani should wait and get to the open market IMO. Even his injury risk is mitigated by the fact he’s an excellent hitter and pitcher.
Vizionaire
TROLLS ABOUND!
CalcetinesBlancos
This is the Japanese dude being Japanese. No chance he signs a deal until he sees the team improve.
Vizionaire
are you in his head now, parasite?
CalcetinesBlancos
No I just read his words and believe what he says lol.
Get Off My Mound
You got Ohtani’s numbers pretty off. He batted .257/.372/.592, he didnt slug .472.
Steve Adams
Thank you, I don’t know how I got .472 in there instead of .592, but it’s been updated.
Get Off My Mound
No problem, you guys are amazing! Love what you guys do everyday and thank you for it.
_Soulrocker_
Brewers do a sign and trade with ohtani and yelich
vtadave
This isn’t the NBA. Plus, he’s already under contract for 2022.
dirkg
The SF Giants just won the NL West division without a single player hitting 30 home runs, 100 RBIs, or pitching 15 wins. It’s about depth and balance.
The Rays didn’t have a pitcher get over 10 wins. They lost Glasgow and somehow got to 100 wins.
The point here is that these comments about Trout and Ohtani not winning are ridiculous: they are 2 cogs in a much larger machine and that machine needs a lot of parts.
Do I hope they sign Ohtani? Yes. At the expense of getting a balanced squad that can survive if Ohtani is not around? No.
As long as the Angels can produce quality wins and still be top heavy with Trout, Rendon, and Ohtani contracts, then I’m okay. But if these contracts prohibit them from diversifying and producing a quality bullpen, then I’m not for it. Is the goal to sell Trout jersies and Ohtani bobble heads? Hopefully not.
The Angels need to focus on building a quality team, not just quality players.
dasit
rays winning 100 games with no single pitcher winning more than 10 is truly amazing. assume that has never happened before and it may never happen again
dirkg
It truly is…I will admit that now that the playoff teams are potted (granted we still have the WC games), those teams with the big horses usually fare better. If Kershaw is indeed done, the Dodgers still have Max, Buehler, etc.
But clearly the Rays have figured out the magic formula for regular season success. Just hope they didn’t tax their bullpen too much to get here.
Cardsthattimeforgot
I hope Ohtani waits for the market.
Of course he wants to win.
He says the right things.
One nitpick…
If a foreign nation was paying me millions of dollars, I’d take the time to learn the language.
Paleobros
Maybe he is trying. Learning a new language is often difficult. Especially something like Japanese-to-English.
Yankee Clipper
Most of these guys speak English anyway, (no idea if Ohtani does) but they use interpreters because they don’t want what they say to the media to be national news and held against them should they say something they don’t mean.
AshamedMethGoat
Yup…Especially the piranha pool that is the US media these days. If I were an athlete in the US from a non-English speaking country but spoke the language perfectly, I’d still use an interpreter when speaking with the media.
Now, when signing autographs and interacting with kids, that’s a different story.
dodger1958
Ohtani gave his ROY acceptance speech, two minutes in length in English. Without an interpreter. Though I find all these discussions about his ethnicity to be unnecessary.
Cardsthattimeforgot
This isn’t about his ethnicity.
OntariGro
Yes it is, it’s ridiculous, and it doesn’t even apply in Ohtani’s case, as there is no “foreign nation” paying him millions of dollars.
Halo11Fan
Deal with the ethnicity reality. Don’t be woke. When it comes to his contract, marketing is huge and his heritage is very relevant. That’s the way it works.
When it comes to language, it’s very important to communicate with his Japanese fans. It’s great. Even if he does speak English. .
The fact is, because he’s Japanese, he markets to Japan. He markets to the Japanese in Southern California. He markets to the Japanese throughout the world and United States. It’s not irrelevant.
The reason Arte got rid of Vlad and brought in Matsui was because Matsui was Japanese. The reason he brought in Hamilton, was because he was White.
When it comes to his contract, marketing is huge and his heritage is very relevant.
dodger1958
Calceltines: “ This is a Japanese dude being Japanese”
Cardsthattimeforgot: “If a foreign nation was paying me millions of dollars I’d take the time to learn the language”.
No foreign nation is paying Ohtani a dime. And nothing requires a foreign born player to learn to speak English. Whether he speaks English fluently (he does in fact speak English) has little to do with his value as a pitcher, outfielder and DH. It obviously impacts marketability to an extent.
Maybe you and I disagree on what constitutes ethnicity.
Halo11Fan
It’s better for marketing if he speaks Japanese. This isn’t real life. This is the entertainment industry.
OntariGro
“The fact is, because he’s Japanese, he markets to Japan. He markets to the Japanese in Southern California. He markets to the Japanese throughout the world and United States.”
Who are you telling this to? There’s literally no one debating/who would debate this.
“The reason Arte got rid of Vlad and brought in Matsui was because Matsui was Japanese.”
This is an oversimplification, but it can slide because…
“The reason he brought in Hamilton, was because he was White.”
Yes, because the 2013 Angels were really missing good/popular white players, and baseball has such trouble attracting white fans. This is buhnahnus specious, unfounded reasoning.
Halo11Fan
No one is talking about his inability to speak English? Did they think Ichiro didn’t know how to speak English? Do they think Ohtani doesn’t know how to speak English?
And I know for a fact.. FOR A FACT, that’s why Hamilton was brought in… Marketing. He was a model to the Born Agains. Good clean cut white boy who overcame. And that’s why Arte was so furious when he took drugs in a strip club.
This is not speculation.
OntariGro
The entirety of this thread is an original post suggesting Ohtani should “learn the language” because he’s being paid by America, followed by people agreeing/disagreeing/speculating whether or not he already knows “the language.”*
*The language ALL of them are referring to is English.
“Do they think Ohtani doesn’t know how to speak English?”
Are you asking me to read the posts where they’re discussing that to you?
“This is not speculation.”
But it is nowhere near the same thing as “they signed Josh Hamilton because he was white.”
CalcetinesBlancos
That is definitely a nitpick, especially considering how many areas of the US there are where you literally don’t need to know English to do anything. Also, if you don’t mind me nitpicking, no nation is paying him millions of dollars.
Cardsthattimeforgot
According to baseball-reference, he will make $4.125 Million.
Learn the language.
disadvantage
“Learn the language.”
Ohhhh, I just saw this comment after reading your first one. So this was never actually a “nit pick.”
What is your reason for wanting him to learn English so badly? He should learn English to……. do interviews? How does it affect anybody if he uses a translator? The Angels knowingly brought in a player from another country with the intention that he could make them better as a team, so it stands to reason they should expect him to speak another language.
And the $4.125 million was for him to be a baseball player, and he is a darn good one, and worth every single penny of that (I mean, he’s waaaay over qualified for that, but we’ll start humble). They are not paying him to be a public speaker, nor would he be worth any more to them if he DID master the language.
That goes without saying what others have said, that he is working hard to learn one of the most (probably THE most) confusing language in the universe, in a country where the media will jump on any word that can be taken out of context.
CalcetinesBlancos
So the government of the United States is paying him? That was my point Einstein.
Halo11Fan
He probably does now speak English. It’s better for almost everyone but the writers if he speaks directly to his Japanese fans.
They want to hear him speak Japanese not English..
People really need to get a clue. This isn’t about someone who is too lazy to learn English. .
dodger1958
Halos he does speak English. Has for years.
Vizionaire
if he goes back to japan now, he’d receive $10-15 mil per season. angels will sign him an extension for 2023 and on.
disadvantage
I think the Angels are perfectly happy paying if Shohei uses the time he could learn English to hone his craft as a Cy Young caliber pitcher and Allstar hitter. In fact, I can think of 29 other teams that would feel the same way if he were to hit the market.
Sabermetric Acolyte
Joe Morgan, Tim McCarver and Bert Blyleven. All native English speakers, all baseball players, all of them you wanted to stop talking any time they tried commentary
There’s far worse things that could happen to baseball than Shohei Ohtani not speaking perfect English.
tstats
Now I want to hear Ohtani in the booth
Sabermetric Acolyte
Even if said something stupid in Japanese he’d still be better than Tim McCarver simply on the virtue that I wouldn’t be able to understand him.
baseballpun
He’s not going to stay just for money. He took less money than he could have when he came over because he was looking for the best opportunity to employ his skills. He’s already shown that the dollars aren’t the primary motivating factor.
Vizionaire
wrong. since he was not a free agent he started with minimum. his japanese team received $20 mil standard compensation.
DarkSide830
id heavily consider an extention if I was him. the elbow concerns are very real and it’s possible his value wolnt get higher (well, it might, but it’s hard to see the AAV return going too much higher. getting beyond the $40 range would be prohobitive for any team, and he might already be there).
dodger1958
Didn’t he already have TJ?
Vizionaire
$40? even the independent league teams can manage that! lol!
QueerAthlete22
On the mound, his 29.3 percent strikeout rate on the mound was tied for 12th among the 96 pitchers who tossed at least 120 innings, and his 3.18 ERA ranked 22nd.
This is the writer you chose over me? Shooooo…..
CalcetinesBlancos
His stats on the mound are pretty good on the mound.
Help4Halo”hurlers”
Angels knowing them will trade him for Super Bowl tickets and Justin turner
Melvin McMurf
As an Angel Fan, I think they should trade. His trade value will never be higher, and the Angels will never be competitive with that owner.
Vizionaire
why trade a team ace?
bigdaddyhacks
He’s right. The angels are going nowhere. The farm is busted. The mlb lineup is mediocre at best. You got get 4-5 legit near mlb ready prospects for him. No matter how much they are tying to cover it over, he wants out.
dasit
unless he gets hurt or declines out of nowhere, ohtani will be extremely difficult to trade. in order for the trade to be anywhere near fair, the angels would need to get 7-8(ish) WAR worth of players in return. how many teams could do that without gutting their own chances? the “replenish the farm” approach is a non-starter for PR reasons
Halo11Fan
Why would you worry about a farm when virtually all the best prospects are up?
Detmers, Marsh, Rodriguez, Adell, Suarez, Sandoval, Canning.
If these guys were in the minor leagues it would be a top five farm system. So I’m suppose to discount them because they don’t count as minor league players?
It’s not like it’s an old team.
OntariGro
“Why would you worry about a farm when virtually all the best prospects are up?”
Because the team with virtually all the best prospects up just went 77-85, and has a pretty empty farm.
“So I’m suppose to discount them because they don’t count as minor league players?”
You’re supposed to discount them as part of the farm system because they are no longer part of the farm system.
“It’s not like it’s an old team.”
But it is currently a bad one, A bad team with an empty farm.
Halo11Fan
And I’m saying if the Angels were healthy, they wouldn’t have brought up players who would still be on the farm and their rankings would be much much higher.
Their farm system is on the team. Now there isn’t a lot down there, and that’s because they are all with the big club.
When the Angels brought up Anderson, Salmon, Snow, Edmonds and Erstad, Their farm stunk as well.
The difference is the Angels then didn’t have Trout, Rendon and Ohtani,
When you have players as young as the Angel players who are all rookies or sophomores, you have time to rebuild a farm.
They don’t have a catcher or a shortstop who are close. They have two shortstops who are a couple/three years away. But. there next position opening after that is Rendon,
They don’t have pitching, which is why they drafted 20 pitches last year.
Without context, comments about them not having a farm are meaningless.
OntariGro
“And I’m saying if the Angels were healthy, they wouldn’t have brought up players who would still be on the farm and their rankings would be much much higher.”
And I’m saying that the rank of the farm at any point this season could not be a less important thing.
“Their farm system is on the team. Now there isn’t a lot down there, and that’s because they are all with the big club.”
Which means that when the Angels aren’t healthy next year who do they call up? An empty farm handicaps both call-ups and any potential trades (how do you swing trades with no chips?). That is why an empty farm is bad.
“When the Angels brought up Anderson, Salmon, Snow, Edmonds and Erstad, Their farm stunk as well.”
And from Salmon’s rookie season in 1993 – 2001 The Angels did their fair share of stinking, making 0 playoff appearances in that span. The mid-late 90s Angels is NOT the model to look to.
“The difference is the Angels then didn’t have Trout, Rendon and Ohtani,”
And this year mostly only had one of them.
“When you have players as young as the Angel players who are all rookies or sophomores, you have time to rebuild a farm.”
No you have a bunch of unproven question marks with minimal major league experience who may help or hurt the team, AND you have a farm to rebuild. You technically have time to do it, but that’s just how time works.
“They don’t have a catcher or a shortstop who are close. They have two shortstops who are a couple/three years away. But. there next position opening after that is Rendon,”
The Troutless outfield was atrocious. No one has proven they’re an everyday starter next season. Not a one. I hope hope hope Adell and Marsh pan out. But those are not countable chickens yet.
“They don’t have pitching, which is why they drafted 20 pitches last year.”
Which means beyond the serious upgrades the pitching staff needs, ALL problems seen and unforseen will have to be solved via Free Agency/Hail Mary Waiver Wire pickups. The former the Angels are famously bad at, the latter all literal prayers. You want to win before Trout and Ohtani ride off into the sunset, this is a poor approach to do it.
“Without context, comments about them not having a farm are meaningless.”
There. Context.
OntariGro
If the Angels will never be competitive with Moreno as the owner, why would Ohtani’s trade value matter? If it’s the choice between
1. Not competitive with Ohtani
2. Not competitive with the (insert names of players received in Ohtani trade)
I’d rather watch Ohtani in an Angels uniform for the maximum amount of time possible thank you..
dasit
agree. can’t think of any player i’d rather watch play for my team, which is saying something in a sport with guerrero, acuna, soto, and tatis
Proudveteran
I’m sure you would. But the issue is that Shohei Ohtani wants to win. The Los Angeles Angels are not going to end up winning 95+ games anytime soon.
When you consider that most likely the universal DH happens that puts into play 30 teams. Also during the time remaining on Ohtani’s contract, he will get to see the collective bargaining agreement and see how that affects him! Now at the end of the following season, he is a free agent.
Shohei Ohtani is a smart man and knows what he wants…can the Angels deliver? They have next year and up to the trade deadline the following year to prove they mean business. If I was Ohtani and struck an extension deal soon…it would have opt-outs every year!
Ron Tingley
This guy Ohtani, yeah pretty dang good. In the JPL at 18 and Ruth like season at 26, in the MLB. Were talking sultan of swat, king of crash, colossus of clout like stuff.
Soo at 26 how long will his elbow hold? He was signed knowing there was an issue with it. Finally pitched for the first time in 4 years. 23 starts about what he averaged in the JPL. Got 96 walks this year, 20 intentional. How long will that last with Trout and Rendon in the lineup. Seems he sacrificed some hits possibly for the true 3 outcome at the plate this year.
Ham Fighter
Oh well he can just hit 50hr every year and steal 30bases. Instead of pitching
Ron Tingley
He didn’t even accomplish that this year.
OntariGro
“Soo at 26 how long will his elbow hold? He was signed knowing there was an issue with it. ”
The elbow he DHed with when it was torn for half a season, which was then repaired via TJ surgery, which he then DHed with for an entire season as he rehabbed it to return to pitching, and then with which he had this season? Probably for a while.
“Seems he sacrificed some hits possibly for the true 3 outcome at the plate this year.”
138 hits. 58 singles, 26 doubles, 8 triples (the only “outcome” he lead the league in), and 46 homeruns.. Even given that, this doesn’t make any sense. True 3 outcome hitting isn’t a target anyone aims for. One of the outcomes is bad!
Halo11Fan
If he hurts his arm, he plays outfield. This is probably the safest pitcher free agent of all time.
OntariGro
Yep, no need to use that arm to make any throws in the ol’ outfield.
Halo11Fan
If he can no longer pitch, do you think his arm becomes unusable?
OK. Whatever.
OntariGro
Yep, that’s what I said. Unusable.
Ron Tingley
His elbow will hold “Probably for a while” That’s good enough for you to throw 35+ million at him for 7-+ 10 years? Excellent, please replace Perry immediately.
Let me make some sense, Angels support hitters were bad. Ohtani was either walked, or pretty much hit a homerun or stuck out. When you have support you will see more fastballs. He wouldn’t of hit .253 with 189 strikeouts if not going for the homerun every swing. Can’t even keep his helmet on his moss.
OntariGro
Let me make some sense, Angels support hitters were bad. Ohtani was either walked, or pretty much hit a homerun or stuck out.”
Or he hit a single, double, or triple.
He wouldn’t of hit .253 with 189 strikeouts if not going for the homerun every swing.
By this logic Ohtani hit the other 92 non-HR hits on accident.
Ron Tingley
Do you even know what you’re trying prove? Cause I sure don’t.
Let me educate you on baseball. True 3 outcome. Walk, strikeout or homerun. The all time leader was Adam Dunn with 49.9% of his at bats ended this way.
Ohtani had –
639 Abs — 46 HR,98 BB, 180 SO = 331
So let’s do the math here, that’s more than 49.9% of his at bats ending in a true 3 outcome. Please educate yourself before you pretend youre ready to talk baseball. Especially when it comes to the Angels. You’re embarrassing your Mom.. She’s the real Angel here.
Halo11Fan
Moreno is all about Marketing. He’ll make every effort to sign Ohtani.
Proudveteran
And lose!
Angels & NL West
I can’t imagine a world where Arte lets a marketing opportunity like Shohei slip thru his fingers. For all of Arte’s faults, he is a smart businessman/marketer.
Halo11Fan
@NL West.
I’m looking forward to a lineup of:
Marsh
Ohtani
Trout
Rendon
Walsh
Adell/Upton
Stassi
Shortstop. (just catch the ball)
Fletcher.
Health is always a factor, but if healthy, that a top five lineup… Easily.
carllafong
Upton is not going to be on this squad. He’s done nothing for two years when he hasn’t been injured, and his defense is atrocious. He will be DFA’d. There is a very good chance Adell is traded for a big arm.
Angels & NL West
Thats one heck of a lineup. Sign me up…
carllafong
He has to be a great marketer to keep getting the crowds he does after the six years of sub .500 baseball and no chance at a championship.
madmanTX
Money grab. Arte loves to overpay. Perfect match
groundhog5150
Of all of Ohtani’s mind blowing batting stats this year, his triples standard out to me because he was still busting his hump in September to get a few of those.
He was playing hard to the end, the way it should be.
Ham Fighter
It’s also crazy he never landed on the DL this year
Ham Fighter
I guarantee shohei will be on the Yankees in 2024. Don’t end up like Albert trout and rendon shohei get the ws rings!
Halo11Fan
You guarantee it? So what’s the guarantee?
Your guarantee is worthless.
carllafong
He rejected playing for the Yankees four years ago despite offering him more money, but he wants to go the Yankees now because why? All the winning they’re doing?
Ham Fighter
There a much better franchise than the garbage Angels
rocky7
Well the Yankees are in the Wild Card game with a real chance to go further……when do the Angels play again?
Ron Tingley
There’s always next year!
MrAngelFan
“a real chance to go further”…….LOL, they started a guy with a 7+ ERA in his past 6 games. More like zero chance to go further.
ajh738
Ohtani should play out his current contract and sign with Seattle for ’23 and beyond. Seattle is on the verge and have a lot positives that would intrigue Ohtani; will be a serious contender, smaller market, and a successful history with Japanese players.
carllafong
He should sign with Seattle? Is that the same Seattle that hasn’t made the playoffs in 20-years? The same Seattle that had a negative run differential and was very fortunate to be where they were at this year– which BTW was out of the playoffs yet again. Rainy, small market Seattle?
bigdaddyhacks
Seattle is probably near the best setup organization right now. #2 farm, MANY widely accredited top prospects and no money committed. You can play the no playoffs rant all you want, but very few free agents are going to pick the wasteland of Anaheim over what Seattle had locked and loaded. Anaheim’s no winning seasons since 2014 and ugly commitments don’t project well. You can’t win with just trout/ohtani/rendon. And last year showed how few SP want to go there. I’ll take Seattle over Anaheim all day.
Proudveteran
I want to shake your hand! But not possible so “Well said”
Ham Fighter
He said he wants to win not go to a franchise that hasn’t been to a playoff in 20 years
carllafong
Upton will be DFA’d. They have no choice. I expect them to trade either Adell or Marsh, more likely Adell for a young, stud #1. They will go all out to sign Scherzer. I would not be surprised to see them trade Rendon to free up money to sign Ohtani, two starters, two bullpen pieces. Moreno is 75 years-old and worth $4B. He can’t take it with him, so he should go all in– and I think he will. Trout, Ohtani and Maddon are all saying politely they want out of this team doesn’t improve their pitching dramatically.
Halo11Fan
Upton will not be DFA’d. Did you check out the outfield last year.
Upton will likely be the forth outfielder and he has value. The Angels are not going to find anyone better and good luck keeping Trout, Adell and Marsh healthy all year.
And to think they are going to get rid of Adell or Marsh and DFA’d Upton is laughable.
There are a lot of really bad takes on this thread. More than usual.
dodger1958
Carl, Rendon with his contract will be next to impossible to trade unless they end of paying a bunch of his contract. And that assumes he doesn’t have a no trade clause.
They can’t sign both Ohtani and Scherzer unless they want to go into tax territory (assuming I am right about Rendon).
If the Dodgers want Scherzer, and he has indicated he is happy in LA, he stays in LA. The Angels would better was developing young pitchers for the long run then 37/38 year old pitchers (no matter how good he is). Scherzer is only really suited for a team which has a serious chance of winning it all. The Angels aren’t there yet.
carllafong
I understand what you’re saying, but Rendon does not have a no trade clause. He’s still young and he’s an elite defender and hitter. He plays a premium position where there is always a demand. His contract is not excessive, or a 10-year deal. There is most definitely a market for Anthony Rendon– he’s an elite player. The Angels are developing young pitchers, they have a whole bunch of them– Ohtani, Detmers, Rodriguez, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, Junk, Bachman… but they need two elite arms at the top., and they need two power arms in the pen. They would not offer Scherzer more than two years, and it will probably be for 30-35MM per year. They are going to go after him. Trout and Maddon have mentioned him by name. Ohtani is demanding help. But to say they will never go anywhere… look at their team when healthy… Ohtani, Trout, Rendon, Walsh, Fletcher, and with the young guns Adell and Marsh coming fast. their offense will be elite and every bit as good as the Dodgers if not better. But the Dodgers stockpile arms, and that is the separator. Arte is worth $4B– he can buy whatever he needs to if he makes up his mind to do it. Will he? We shall see. If I was 75 and had that kind of bankroll I would be shopping.
OntariGro
Rendon’s contract has a full no-trade clause.
carllafong
That is not true. He does not have a no-trade. Upton and Trout are the only players on the team with a no-trade.
dodger1958
Carl, actually multiple sites indicate he has a full no trade clause. Making it highly unlikely he will be able to be traded. Very few teams can afford 38 million per year.
carllafong
If he does have a no-trade I’m unaware of it and I apologize. But he is not making $38MM. Where are you getting that figure? His adjusted salary $27.5 through 2026. He has four years left. He was paid a lot up front in a signing bonus.
dodger1958
Carl, according to Baseball Ref.com
36,500,000 in 22
38,571,000 in 23-26
Other sites give the same numbers.
He is unmovable unless the Angeles eat a huge chunk.
carllafong
Thanks for the info. The total and the average are the total and the average regardless, but I get your point. Why did they backload that contract when they knew they wouldn’t be ready to win for at least three years? It’s just blatantly dumb. Why wouldn’t you front load the deal and pay the big money in the first three years and give yourself more flexibility later when Pujols and and Upton are off the books? Really, really shortsided… malpractice by Eppler.
OntariGro
“They can’t sign both Ohtani and Scherzer unless they want to go into tax territory (assuming I am right about Rendon).”
And the fact that having to pay Luxury Tax would almost definitely be a dealbreaker for Arte in that case is truly maddening. Arte loves winning, but not as much as he hates taxes.
carllafong
Well, then they won’t be winning and Trout, Ohtani and Rendon will be a year older. He is going to have to cross that line to compete for a championship– he has no choice. You have Maddon looking tired and stressed publicly saying they have to. You have Trout publicly saying they have to. Ohtani just said he wants to sign with them, but only if they bring in help. So we shall see if Arte changes his approach, or signs a big shortstop. If they were to add Scherzer and Gausman, Ohtani would become their three. Sandoval is your four, Detmers and Suarez are five and six. The rest become needed depth– and they would be right in the running.
Halo11Fan
Next year is not the issue. In 2023, they will have a number of arbitration eligible players and it’s estimated those contracts will be valued at 141 million dollars (baseball reference).. If Ohtani is signed, that will be subtracted from arbitration dollars.
2023 Will be interesting. They have an estimated 18.4 in arbitration in 2022. There is a lot of room.
carllafong
$28MM comes off with Upton in 2023 alone– whether they DFA him this year or not, 2023 they have even more room. The Dodgers are spending over $300MM. Arte is going to have to spend more to compete.
OntariGro
Are you going to admit that Rendon has a full no-trade clause?
Proudveteran
First of all, you may be counting on Trout too much. He may never be the same! The injury he had taken way too long to heal, is there something else going on they are not saying? Max Scherzer didn’t want to go there because he wouldn’t have been the difference. Max Scherzer will still not go there for the same reason.
Get rid of Adell or Marsh and you’re telling Ohtani let’s take a step back further…because you have not stated who will replace them. So trade Rendon for what? Who replaces Rendon… you are thinking exactly like how the Los Angeles Angels think and this is why they are not competitive!
carllafong
What are you talking about? They DFA’d ALBERT PUJOLS, but they won’t do the same to Upton hitting .200? He was hurt last year, and most of this year– and he’s a year older. His defense kills the team– way below average. They have to pay him regardless, so why would you trot him out there to hit .200? He can’t be the fourth outfielder because he can’t play center, or right. His skills have massively eroded, and you’d be asking him to do something he’s never done. If Minnassian had the brass to DFA Pujols, who was much more productive on both sides of the ball– he’ll do it to Upton.
OntariGro
Justin Upton played the first 6 seasons of his major league career in RF
Halo11Fan
They DFA’d Puljos because Pulos he wasn’t going to play. He was not going to be the firstbaseman and he was not going to be the DH and he wanted out. To be blunt, Pujols was a Dick.
The players who played in the outfield last year were a joke. With how much time the Angels outfield missed last year, They can’t afford to not have a 4th outfielder. Upton will get plenty of ABs. He can DH, and there are plenty of ABs for a 4th outfielder.
Even if Marsh, Trout and Adell play 145 games, And Ohtani DHs 145 games. That’s plenty of ABs for Upton. And he’ll likely have an opportunity for more than that.
30 Parks
The Angels just never learn – it’s borderline fascinating as an annual baseball experiment gone wrong.
Old York
Don’t re-sign. Sign with the Yankees and rebuild a super team. Bring back the 1930s Yankees.
Proudveteran
Signing with the Yankees could be detrimental to his cause. He wants his money and wants to win. With the current attitude of the Yankees front office, it won’t happen. They are not willing to go over the salary cap which limits them.
Consider they will be paying Aaron Judge big dollars soon + Stanton’s contract = Gerrit Cole’s contract, I could go on! If they are not willing to go above the cap they will not get Shohei Ohtani.
Shohei is a very special player {Great hitter + Great Pitcher} >>> a two-way player that delivers at both ends. When Shohei is on the open market you are probably looking at a minimum $500m contract by however many years, or at least over $50m per season…if the Yankees want him they will have to go above the threshold. >>>>>ANY TEAM MOST LIKELY WILL<<<<<
Edp007
He will resign with Angels , plenty of cash and plenty of opt outs in case the team continues as it is now , a loser organization.
LordD99
Trout should have insisted on a couple opt outs.
prov356
These comments assume Trout had no choice and he was bamboozled. Trout has the exact contract he wanted.
Proudveteran
Why sign with a team most likely knowing you are going to opt out?
Luke Strong
The Angels are going to need to seriously explore the possibility of trading Ohtani this off-season if they can’t extend him. They have some serious financial constraints and no team can really afford to have 3 guys making well over $100m collectively. Ohtani will have a massive salary associated with him (barring injury and/or severe degradation of skills) after 2022. If they know already they won’t be able to or willing to extend him, and they could be on the hook for a record arbitration salary, and then the reality they’d lose him for a measly compensation draft pick if he walks, it absolutely makes sense to explore a trade while his value is as high as it could ever possibly be.
If they could deal him now and come away with a quality return, and there is little doubt they could get a solid player with at least 4 seasons of team control as the highlight of any deal in return for him, I think they will have to consider it as a legitimate possibility.
OntariGro
” They have some serious financial constraints”
No they don’t.
“no team can really afford to have 3 guys making well over $100m collectively.”
In 2020 Trout Pujols Rendon and Upton cost a pinch over $115m
In 2021 it was $121m
$111m committed to Trout Upton Rendon Fletcher and Ohtani for 2022
$81.6 committed to Trout Rendon and Fletcher in 2023
“Ohtani will have a massive salary associated with him”
That salary covers 1 roster space but two positions, and it’s for 1 season.
“If they know already they won’t be able to”
Which has been reported nowhere.
“or willing to extend him”
If such a person exists, lemme at them.
“it absolutely makes sense to explore a trade while his value is as high as it could ever possibly be.”
His market value is as high as it could possibly be because his on-field value is so astronomical, and you get one season on the cheap. There is literally no way to trade Ohtani that would be anything other than punting on the Angels part.
“a solid player with at least 4 seasons of team control as the highlight of any deal in return for him”
Is that a return you’d be satisfied with if a team traded their best pitcher AND 2nd best hitter (no shame being 2nd to Trout), who are both huge fan favorites and two of the most exciting players in baseball? Except its one guy. You got a solid guy you can have for two extra years as the BEST of the players in return. Now you have to replace the production of your best pitcher and 2nd best hitter, along with the other holes in your rotation/bullpen/bench.
A fleecing like that would make the Vernon Wells trade look like pure brilliant gamesmanship.
Stop treating billionaires with billion dollar teams like they’re juuuuuust scraping by.
Proudveteran
Shohei Ohtani is a free agent at the end of the 2023 season. this time frame is going to allow Shohei the outcome of the DH, does it go universal? {His benefit if it does}. It also allows for the new CBA to be set in place and see those rules and how they will affect him. Time is on his side, and benefit!
Shohei has made it clear that he wants to win. So the Los Angeles Angels have 1+ years to show him they will field a winning team. Keep in mind fielding a winning team for your league does not make a winning/competitive team. You have five other divisions to compete with. AL East, AL Central, NL East, NL Central, NL West + the wild cards so just winning the AL West is nothing! I worry about the mindset of the Angels.
If the DH is made universal next year then all 30 teams are in! But not all! Some will be automatically eliminated by being small or middle market. I just made a post before this one why the Yankees will not factor in. For that reason, they have made it clear that they are not interested in going over the cap and they have to tend to Aaron Judges upcoming payday! and the others that already exist…unless they change directions they are out. Just an example.
So let’s assume Shohei Ohtani keeps up his current pace and even improves. There is no presedence for this type of player. Based off career stats, if Shohei batted in just 145 games he would average 33 homeruns a season, But lets look at this just ended season: Batting> the only weakness is his .257 batting average. 103 runs scored, 100 rbi, 46 HR, .965 OPS, 26 2B, 8 3B extrodinary player when you consider his pitching stats > 9-2 W/L, .818 Winning %, 3.18 era, 130.1 innings pitched, 156 Ks, yeah pheonominal!
The Los Angeles Angels will not field a winning team unless winning means you have more than 81 wins. They fail to take into consideration that other teams are also upgrading etc and the LAA seems to always fall behind. Why would Ohtani want to play with them? Now if I was Ohtani and decided to give them a chance, every year would have an opt out…every year!
Look at a team that is willing to go above the payroll threshold and he will be on one of those teams. Those teams win because they get the best players, best players cost money…best players pay for themselves in other forms of revenue. This is just my opinion, but if I were Shohei Ohtani I would pretty much know that the Los Angeles Angeles are not in my future.
Fred McGriff
Ozzie Albies’ is just the 10th player in MLB history to have 3 or more seasons with at least 40 doubles, 20 HR and 5 triples. The others are 8 HOFers and Mookie Betts. Leading the way with 6 such seasons apiece: Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig and Rogers Hornsby.
Albies is the third player in Braves history to have such a 30/40/100 season, after Hall of Famers Chipper Jones, in his 1999 MVP season, and Hank Aaron in 1959. (Chipper also missed by 1 homer in 2007)
Some guys on huge contracts are not worth the money they get paid, and some guys like Albies are worth a whole lot more. That’s the class of Albies, the contract he signed shows that he loves the club. A good team will always beat the team of stars. If Ohtani is really serious about winning and he wants to win it’s not going to be with the Angels, he better find another team and not be money focused. I wish he was a Brave, but I can somehow imagine the Yankees being interested. Imagine Judge, Stanton, & Ohtani, that would be beastly.
dodger1958
Judge
Stanton
Ohtani
All have major injury histories. Judge and Stanton long standing.
Yankees won’t go into luxory tax and Judge is gonna get pretty pricey within a few years.
dodger1958
Luxury
dodger1958
In fact Judge will likely be in the range of 15-16 million for the upcoming year of 2022 and will be a free agent after 2023. At that time you will be looking at 30 million+ per year or more long term.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
@other Fred. I don’t think Ohtani will be a Brave anytime soon. Liberty Media is to cheap. I am just hoping and praying they do the right thing and extend Freddie. The Yankees would go all in on Ohtani.
neurogame
That’s one way to look at it. Kind of a naïve way, but here’s my more cynical take.-
The Atlanta Braves took advantage of Oscar Albies. He was a lightning-in-a-bottle rookie who, if he kept up even a modest amount of the production he showed in his first year and a half, would pay dividends if they payed him early and upfront.
Albies was born in Curaçao and is the oldest of three children. His father died a few years before he signed his new Braves contract so he is now tasked with being the “man” of the family. The Braves exploited a young man with heavy responsibilities and offered him lots of money and security in lieu of arbitration and free agent years. “Yes,” they took a chance on him but $35M it’s nothing to a company that’s worth north of $1 Billion.
Albies even added, “I don’t look at it just from money because I’m not playing for money. I’m playing for my career. I took it because I want my family to be safe.” He needed security for his family and the Braves offered more money than he and his family had ever imagined, Baseball pundits and executives from other MLB organizations have labeled Ozzie’s as one of the player-worst contracts in sports history.
neurogame
Once the NL adopts the DH, I’d don’t see how Ohtani will sign an extension without entering Free Agency. That’d be the full 30 teams capable of placating toward his services, even though not everyone will be able to afford it.
Ohtani is a money maker though – people will tune in to watch him, especially on days he pitches. Which ever team ends up paying him, will get their money back if he does well. He’s got international pull. However the Angels need more than just Ohtani. They also need more pitching and better pitching. No more wasting Trout prime years!
Proudveteran
I agree with you 100%. If the Los Angeles Angels truly want to keep him they need to extend him right now! I agree that once the NL adopts the DH ALL teams are in the market or bidding. Many will be immediately eliminated because of their marketability.
Shohei is a smart man. He is going to wait and see if the DH comes to the NL. He will wait and see how the new CBA turns out, once he has these answers he will start looking. No, I am not saying all this thinking he is a free agent right now, he still has time left on his current Angels deal…he is smart, he wants his value, and most importantly he wants to WIN!
The key here is winning. If the Angels want Shohei they are going to have to show they want to win. So before his contract ends they better be showing they are serious by then.
prov356
So the Trade Trout crowd has morphed into the Trade Ohtani crowd. The principle is the same: You don’t make your team better by trading a player like Trout or Ohtani. The only reason to even mention it is if we were in full rebuild mode, which we are far from. We need a couple starters, a couple BP arms, a SS, and some health…that’s it.
LordD99
Trading generational talents when you also happen to be a major market team is certainly not the answer. Doing an assessment about why you can’t effectively build around that talent and making changes based on that assessment is a better answer.
Old York
Sign with the Blue Jays. They have a young, up-and-coming team knocking at the playoff door.
Proudveteran
If the Blue Jays were able to keep Marcus Semien, retain Robbie Ray, and sign Shohei Ohtani… this team could possibly set a new record for regular-season wins.
LordD99
Don’t do it, Shohei.
Proudveteran
Shohei Ohtani is surely an interesting player. I think that if Shohei was to sign an extension right now it would be at least $50m per year. Shall Los Angeles Angeles wait to sign him there are two scenarios? The first is, assuming that he continues to develop better. Is that he has outpriced himself for the Angels. The second is that his market value exceeds a total price range exceeding $500m and amount of years unknown at this time. Once you start getting into this area the player is finding himself in total big market teams, this being that Shohei wants to be paid and win. In my opinion, is the Los Angels Angels need to extend now or lose him. In my opinion, Shohei Ohtani needs to wait for free agency.
Angels & NL West
Many people are looking at Shohei’s re-signing by stating all the reasons he should test free agency. Its worth noting that Shohei, like any person, may also be concerned about waiting. For example, he may be worried about his health as, prior to this year, he had not put together a full season in four years (including his last season in Japan). Does he believe he can pitch 140+ innings and have 600+ ABs again? Further, was this a career year? Does Shohei believe he can reasonably replicate this season? And will the new CBA help him or hurt him?
These are things that may be going though his mind that could cause him to want to capitalize on a historic season and sign an extention sooner rather than later.
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Trade Trout to the Queens so you can save the money to sign shohei . Lol I mean one can dream.