Much has been made of the uncertainty in the Giants’ rotation beyond this season. Kevin Gausman, Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood and Johnny Cueto (whose club option is likely to be bought out) are all in line to hit free agency. The San Francisco front office will have their work cut out for them in reconstructing a starting staff, but they do have one long-term building block under control: Logan Webb.
Webb hasn’t gotten as much fanfare as he deserves, probably a byproduct of the numerous bounce-back and breakout seasons up and down the San Francisco roster. His volume has been held in check by a couple of mid-season stints on the injured list due to shoulder troubles. But when Webb has been healthy enough to take the ball — as he is at the moment — he’s been incredible.
The right-hander has been one of the league’s most successful at keeping runs off the board. Webb owns a 2.56 ERA over 112 1/3 frames, the eighth-lowest mark among pitchers with 100+ innings pitched. And he’s unanimously posted strong peripherals. Webb has struck out 27% of batters faced, a mark that’s more than four percentage points better than the 22.7% average for starters. That’s backed up by strong rates of swinging strikes (12.3%) and called strikes (18.8%), both of which are more than a point above average. Webb has always had solid control, and his 6.7% walk percentage this season is lower than the league-wide mark.
While Webb has been at least solid across the board, he’s been truly excellent at keeping the ball on the ground. His 60.8% grounder rate is second-highest (trailing only Framber Valdez) among that same group of starters. Webb has leaned more heavily on his sinker, one of the lower-spinning fastballs in the game, this season. Unlike with four-seamers, the lack of spin is a feature for the sinker. Lower spin makes it less resistant to gravity, generally enabling pitchers to get more downhill action on the offering. Unsurprisingly, his sinker has been one of the best ground-ball pitches in the game.
Webb’s wide array of abilities makes for a rare skillset. Only 17 of the 103 pitchers with 100+ innings have posted better than average strikeout, walk and ground-ball rates. That’s not a unanimously great group — Adbert Alzolay and JT Brubaker haven’t had much success, for instance — but it’s certainly a positive indicator. 13 of those 17 hurlers have an ERA of 3.76 or lower, with five posting a sub-3.00 mark.
Webb has been good since the start of the season, but he’s really turned things on of late. Going back to the All-Star Break, he has an MLB-best 1.64 ERA in ten starts with high-end strikeout and walk rates. He’s benefitted from some batted ball and strand luck, but fielding independent pitching metrics still suggest Webb has been highly impressive. Only Gerrit Cole and Max Scherzer have a SIERA better than Webb’s 3.00 since the Break, and his full-season mark of 3.18 is among the league’s ten best.
While the Giants’ front office will have plenty of decisions to make this offseason, they can at least pencil Webb in at or near the top of the 2022 rotation. The 24-year-old still has four more seasons of team control, and he won’t reach arbitration eligibility until the conclusion of next season. They could contemplate a long-term extension, but there’s still not yet a ton of urgency on that front.
One more pressing call that could be on the table is whether Webb’s breakout season has vaulted him to the top of this year’s rotation. San Francisco holds a one-game lead over the Dodgers in the NL West race after taking two of three from Los Angeles over the weekend. While they’re obviously hoping to hang onto that lead and avoid the Wild Card Game, there’s still a real chance they wind up in a one-game playoff next month.
If that ultimately turns out to be the case, Giants’ brass would face a tough choice deciding to whom to give the ball. Opening Day starter Gausman has been excellent going back two years and might be the top starting pitcher to hit the free agent market this offseason. But Webb has arguably been even better than Gausman this year. They’re essentially tied in ERA. Gausman has a slight edge in punchouts but Webb’s been much better at racking up grounders. Webb has the edge in SIERA and the two have nearly identical marks in FIP (2.89 for Gausman, 2.90 for Webb).
That would be a moot point if the Giants hold onto the division. Even if they do wind up in the Wild Card, having to make that kind of difficult decision is a good “problem” to have. That’s a testimony to Webb’s fantastic campaign, one which makes him the long-term anchor of a Giants’ rotation that could see plenty of upheaval elsewhere a few months from now.
Gmen777
Whether it’s game 1 of the NLDS or the Wild Card game…it’s gotta be Logan.
giantsphan12
TBH, at this point with Webb’s post All-Star break surge and Gausman’s minor regression, I’d prefer to see Webb as our front line starter in a WIld Card game or the first game in a division series. He’s been fantastic!!!
foppert
From memory, I think he was slated for long relief at the start of the year. From there until now has been great to watch. Loving the confidence. In him, and me when he starts.
Dorothy_Mantooth
If they end up in the wildcard game, they should throw Gausman in that game. He should be able to shut down the Reds or Padres no problem. Then they would have Webb ready for Game 1 of the NLDS.
Gmen777
You gotta play that WC game with all the chips and right now I take Webb over Gausman (however Gaus has been steadily improving since stumbling out of the gate after the break). Webb has been on another level
Deleted_User
You ride the hot hand in the Wild Card game which in SF’s case IS Logan Webb
Jean Matrac
It’s not just the hot hand. Early this season Webb was still a guy who got ahead in the count, and then lost guys by nibbling with easy takes. He’s matured amazingly this season, but I still worry, with his lack of experience, that he’ll fall back into bad habits. In a must win game I like the guy with the most experience, Gausman.
scottn59c
If it comes down to a WC scenario, it’s all hand on deck. And that means Gausman and Webb. And whomever else is needed to get the job done…
Baseball 1600
Gausman owns the Padres but Reds knocked him around at Oracle park early in the year (before his post-all star break regression)
I like the idea of riding Webb with a short leash in a WC game and then relying on a combo of Litell, Garcia, Rogers, and McGee to finish it out.
Kewldood69
I’m amazed how the Giants have done so well with a rag tag staff. Who’s the biggest SP free agent this off season? I wonder if Farhan is feeling squirrelly. I suppose what happens at the end of this season matters into that equation.
Dorothy_Mantooth
SF has no choice but to re-sign Gausman after this season, and they’ll need to sign 2-3 other free agent pitchers as well.
Gmen777
I feel almost positive they trade for at least one pitcher (still think Joey Bart to the Marlins for one of their young pitchers makes too much sense), Gausman is the only one I feel they attempt to re-sign unless Disco or Wood like it here so much they sign pretty cheap which I never expect.
Pete'sView
I think DeScalfani, too.But there’s no question, Giants have to trade for or sign at least one #1 starter and a #2 to go with Webb, Gausman and Desclafani. I like Wood as well, but SF needs to go all in on starting pitching, never an easy commodity to find.
amk1920
They won’t have the luxury of singing the Gausman, Wood, Discos of the world to 1 year deals anymore. All those guys want to be paid. Free agent pitchers like that don’t grow on trees every off-season.
scottn59c
@amk1920: You’re right. But they have demonstrated a knack for finding such guys. But for every Pomeranz or Gausman, there will be Shoemakers and Chatwoods that are all flamed out. So I’ve got to think that the future is somewhere in the middle: spend some money on a known commodity (i.e Gausman) and spend use analytics to find the next batch of overlooked free agents who might thrive at Oracle Park.
Baseball 1600
Every year there are buy low pitching candidates. It’s not just limited to those three, lol.
mister guy
don’t forget that there are some guys that will likely be around for starts to fill out those 4 and 5 spots as well. Hjelle should be up next year some time, long has been pretty consistently on the edge of being really good and not quite putting it together, guidino has been putting some nice starts together.
hopper15
“SF has no choice but to re-sign Gausman”
I doubt Zaidi will see it that way.
scottn59c
“Who’s the biggest SP free agent this off season? ”
Kershaw, Syndergaard, Gausman, Bundy, Stroman.
Jean Matrac
Kershaw? He is going to be 34, not ancient I realize, but who is going to give a 34 year old anything longer than 3 years? Especially when Kershaw is nowhere near the pitcher he was 8 years ago. He isn’t the guy that could give you 30+ starts, with 200+ (or 300) SOs anymore.
He was the most dominant pitcher in baseball for 7 years, from 2011 to 2017, but that will be 5 years ago next season.. He’s still solid, with a surefire induction into the Hall of Fame, but he is hardly the headliner of the 2022 FA class. Besides, the Dodgers will re-sign him, and he’ll retire as a Dodger.
BeforeMcCourt
Oh tad. Just because kershaw is no longer DeGromian, doesn’t mean he isn’t a fantastic pitcher. If qualified, His era is still top 20 in MLB, top 15 in NL. His FIP is better than Scherzer, 7th in mlb, 5th in the NL
And his K rate was the best since 2017, and is actually the 3rd best of his career.
Man how wrong can one man be!?
The arm issue, his first ever of his career, likely keeps him from a 5 year deal. But 3+Vesting or even a straight 4 year deal is not out of the picture
Jean Matrac
Well, first of all, not sure why I’m responding to you because, once again, you’ve shown a severe deficit in reading comprehension. I was responding to a post that listed Kershaw first among the top FAs for next season. What I pointed out is he’s not.
From 2011 to 2015 Kershaw averaged 32 GS, 226 IP, and 250 SOs.
From 2016 to 2019, he averaged 26 GS, 166 IP, and 180 SOs.
That’s not including last year’s short season, which I excluded because it would skew numbers downward. But he did not have a season nearly as dominant as he had been. He was not top ten in any of ERA, BB/9, WHIP, H/9, SO/9, IP, or SOs. 33 pitchers had more starts than Kershaw.
Add in the arm problem this season that put him on the 60 day IL, and you have a pitcher that is nowhere near the pitcher he was, and is a somewhat of a gamble for any team. He still a good pitcher, but lack of availability in recent seasons is a red flag.
Plus, you took exception to my saying 3 years max on his next contract, like it was way short, but come back with 3+Vesting, or 4, like I was way off. Take off those Dodger blue blinders and try and see things a little less biased.
BeforeMcCourt
Severe reading deficiency?! Did you not say he’s not the guy he was 8 years ago, but hes “still solid”. Do I need to quote the entire first paragraph of your own comment back?
You’re arguing “because he’s no longer pitching at DeGromian level sub 2 ERA, he’s not worth it”.
Yet his FIP is better than Scherzer but he’s “just solid”? You must think the whole league sucks.
You claim he can’t K 200 guys, but his K rate this year is his 3rd best EVER of ANY of his seasons. So that’s a BS claim
you’re the analytically deficient one. Try to look at all his numbers. Go ahead. Check it against the rest of the NL. You’ll be surprised
Kershaw’s numbers are good enough to be #2 in basically any NL rotation, the lone exception is maybe his own, mostly because they have 1-2 CYA contestants. Every team is better with Kershaw taking the ball. You claim I am biased. But if you can’t admit Kershaw makes any team including the Giants better, you’re the biased one buddy.
You also said no way he gets 3 years. So you were saying 2 years. I said min has 4 years included
BeforeMcCourt
And Scherzer is the correct answer for best FA. But kershaw probably gets 2nd biggest deal
Jean Matrac
Yes. Severe reading deficiency. I never said Kershaw “wasn’t worth it”. And what do you mean? Worth what?
I agree, his numbers are good, but they’re not great, Did you see the lists of all the categories he is not in the top 10 of? Yet you cherry-pick one stat to make your feeble minded argument. No one, his age, and his increasing numbers of missed games is getting a big contract on the heels of a 119 ERA+.
Nice that you avoid the entire availability issue, which is the main reason I believe he’s not getting a big contract. The Dodgers will pay him well to keep him a Dodger, but if Friedman gives him anything more than 3 years, with an option/buyout, he’s not as smart as I think he is.
You say Posey does not rate induction into the Hall of Fame, and yet you think an aging Kershaw is in line for a big contract. Face it, your take is biased.
Pete'sView
Agree about Scherzer but doubt Kershaw gets next best deal. In fact, Kershaw will never make it to market; Dodgers will sign him for his last 2 years as a pro. He’s a lifetime Dodger, and though they value him more than most teams, they’re not going to open the bank for him.
Sadler
I don’t know what the definition of “biggest” means in this context, but the “best” free agent starting pitcher is Max Scherzer.
What he’s doing with the Dodgers isn’t a fluke, it’s what happens when a pitcher of his caliber sees a championship at the end of the tunnel.
jt82
What about Robbie Ray? Oh wait we believe Dylan Bundy is a bigger FA then he is. Ray is going to finish top 2 in Cy Young for the AL, after pitching in the AL East, which is arguably the toughest division in baseball.
But hey, let’s sign Stroman or Bundy. Much better FA.
scottn59c
@Sadler and jt82: Sorry – my list wasn’t complete! Those were the guys I thought of off the top of my head, but agree that Scherzer and Ray will be hot commodities.
Pete'sView
Until a few years ago I was a huge Robbie Ray fan, but I’m not trusting that this year isn’t an outlier. I wouldn’t throw a ton of years at Ray. He could easily revert.
Fred McGriff
When I saw him pitch he reminded me a bit of Greg Maddux in the way he pounded the bottom of the zone and got ground ball outs. It’s very hard to elevate anything as a hitter when the pitcher is pounding all the targets at the bottom of the zone.
trout27
Tell that to Mike Trout, maybe the greatest low ball hitter ever.
tstats
They should start Disco if they WC cause that implies the dodgers win the west and the dodgers light Disco up 4/5 times or smt like that. He can talk the pads or reds, save the big boys for LA
DarkSide830
prolly back on the PEDs
Jean Matrac
What a stupid comment. Obviously you know zero about Webb. From his debut, it was always clear to anyone with eyes, that he had great stuff, but didn’t know yet how to use it. I’m surprised you are so willing to expose your ignorance with a comment that is more like one that I’d expect from a troll.
Gmen777
Just a dumb Phillies fan ignore him
worthington
His typical moronic crap.
DarkSide830
yeah expected this response. the dude was popped for PEDs in the Minors. what’s absurd about the possibility that its still the case?
biffpocoroba
DarkSide, of course you are correct that it could happen again. In response, he did say on May 1st, 2019 that he had no idea how it got into a urine sample (no surprise there). But he also knows he’s under more scrutiny now than ever before. The fact that he’s pitching better than ever with that scrutiny should also count for something.
On your side of the ledger is the fact that what he got popped for is something that helps muscles heal faster, and yes, he seems to have come off his two stints on the IL pretty well this year.
Jean Matrac
The most predictable thing that happens in these comments is, whenever a player has a bounce-back, or a breakout season, some fan of a different team will post something about PED use. When there is zero evidence, and a years old positive test is not evidence, posting something like that, which is nothing but a made up rumor, is lazy, and corrupt.
giantsfan57
Webb has been money all year and a great guy to around which to build the 2022 rotation. Re-sign Gausman and maybe DeSclafani and go out and a strong FA (my choice is Robbie Ray). Webb will be here for a while and should continue to mature and strengthen into a opening day starter role by 2023.
Jean Matrac
Actually, saying he’s been money “all year”, isn’t really correct. He’s been much better since the AS break. At the beginning of the season he was walking way too many guys. He’d get ahead and then nibble. His SO/BB ratio in April was 2.55, in August it was more than twice as good at 5.86.
I used to get frustrated with him, and all the easy takes he threw, resulting in either walks, or him having to throw a strike, and it getting hit. It seems this was the season he started to finally figure things out. Alex Wood, encouraging him to work faster, is one factor in his improvement.
But, he was not anywhere near the pitchers at the beginning of the season that he is now.
giantsfan57
Fair point.
hopper15
Stroman is who I could see Zaidi pursuing.
chicoescuela
Shhhh….nothing to see here
5TUNT1N
Giants called up a reliever trade rumors might wanna make a report! Kervin Castro added for the Rockies game likely depth after the last few bullpen games against the Dodgers. He didn’t get into the game maybe because Gausman worked kinda deep, buys you some time haha.
Sadface
Logan Web looks like the real deal. Kevin Gausman may have turned a corner in his career or he might just be having a career year. Washed out a few years ago with the Braves and picked up for the bullpen by the Reds. Wasn’t much better with them. Anyway, hope that he has turned a corner and will continue to be a dominant starter but history is not on his side. Any Braves fans remember his parody of Home Alone when he was in Atlanta?
Dusty Baker's tooth pick.
Yes, it was pretty funny!
Sadface
Logan Web looks like the real deal. Kevin Gausman may have turned a corner in his career or he might just be having a career year. Washed out a few years ago with the Braves and picked up for the bullpen by the Reds. Wasn’t much better with them. Anyway, hope that he has turned a corner and will continue to be a dominant starter but history is not on his side. Any Braves fans remember his parody of Home Alone when he was in Atlanta?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I think Stroman would be outstanding at Oracle. A big NO on Robbie Ray though. Next year Giants will be lucky to find 3rd Place though with that rag-tag bunch on one year deals. You’re not going to get that lucky again on reclamation projects all panning out. Four holes to fill in the rotation is deadly.
Sadface
I’m actually surprised that the aren’t in third this year. It seems that everything so far has gone right for the Giants. But I don’t think this is a team of destiny as far as winning the World Series. Maybe NLCS or division series loss then back to mediocre next year.
Gmen777
Just as good a chance at a WS as any other team. Best record in MLB right now, have vets who have won 162 game championships before and are one of the most well rounded teams in baseball.
worthington
Ignorant name suits you. They will be fine.
GarryHarris
If it’s a playoff game and against the Reds, perhaps since Johnny Cueto, Anthony DeSclafani and Alex Wood are all former Reds, that could work in the decision. The Phillies aren’t out of
jints1
Webb’s success also has to be attributed to Kapler and the coaches. After every poor start, they seemed to be relentless that he had to pound the strike zone and not nibble. Finally took.
Simple Simon
There are always lots of reclamation projects — and which one wouldn’t want a shot to pitch at Oracle?
FZ has proven he knows better than us amateurs.
tstats
Oracle has suspiciously become a helluva hitters park… more than expected with moving the walls
Jean Matrac
Putting the bullpens out in CF helped, but I’m not sure the biggest effect wasn’t closing off the openings in the arcade. Wind blew in through them knocking down balls hit to RF. Now balls carry much better in that direction than they used to.
xtraflamy
They opened them back up a while back.
Pete'sView
The answer, I believe, in finding top of rotation starters (at least two besides re-signing Gausman and DeSclafani) is via trades. I think we’ll see Bart moved for a Marlins or Guardians arm, one that is a top prospect and major league ready.
biffpocoroba
Agree that Bart will be packaged this offseason by Zaidi to get someone else’s Logan Webb, and that 2 of Gausman, DeSclafani, and/or Wood will be back under 3-year deals. Two of them, plus Webb and a FA acquisition and then a farm call-up will get things started for them in ’22, with still millions to spend on a key position player (Bryant) and a Posey extension.
Jean Matrac
I don’t agree about Bart. I think the Giants still see him as the catcher of the future. Buster will only be around for maybe 2 years.
Good hitting catchers are harder to find than good SPs. I think they’ll hold on to Bart, at least until they have a better handle on Bailey. Once Bart and Bailey are both ready, then one probably gets traded.
biffpocoroba
Tad, you may be correct, but I’m basing my prediction upon Zaidi’s likely reaction this offseason if another team offers them a Logan Webb or their #2 or #3, cost-controlled starter for Bart.
And what will also drive this is whether Buster even wants a 2-year extension or not. For all we know, if they somehow make it to the series this year, he may decide to hang it up and get out healthy. If Buster is not on their ’22 roster, then Bart isn’t going anywhere.
Gmen777
No way Gausman signs a 3 year deal his value will probably never be higher than it is now. He obviously isn’t going to get Gerrit Cole money but he’ll almost certainly get five years from somebody. Disco might be possible at 3 though
biffpocoroba
Gmen, you may be right about Gausman, if his market is robust in the offseason. But who would be likely to give him 5 years right now?
As for Disco, I think it is better than 50-50 they find a way to retain him on a 3-year deal with perhaps an option at the back end if needed.
Bob333
If someone gives Gausman a 5yr contract they should have their head examined same thing about Cueto
Gmen777
I honestly would be shocked if Cueto gets more than a one year deal. I think he’s about done
eric1der
The Spin rate affecting gravity comment could more accurately be explained
Bob333
Kapler still waiting on the hammer to drop from when he was with the Dodgers and covering up abuse of a woman by his minor league players,WEIRD DUDE
Jean Matrac
How about posting a link, or some sort of evidence to back up this vicious rumor? This is what I heard happened:
In 2015, a 17-year-old accused a Dodger minor league player initially of videotaping a fight in which two women whom she had met through Facebook hit her while with her in a hotel room of a player. The accuser emailed her complaint to Kapler. He sought direction from Dodgers’ lawyers and human resources personnel and then replied quickly with a phone call, apologized, and offered to help in any way she needed. A week later—when the accuser was arrested for shoplifting—she added the second accusation to police, though she did not communicate it to Dodgers personnel, that at the time a Dodger minor league player engaged in alleged sexual assault by briefly putting his hand under her bra and down her pants; the accuser then declined to cooperate with the police, and no charges were filed. Kapler reported the accusation of the videotaping of the assault to Dodgers personnel, who did not report it to Major League Baseball.
Kapler apologized for his handling of the allegations even though he did nothing wrong, but felt he could have been more proactive. Maybe he could have, but did not cover up anything.
Bob333
Kapler still waiting on the hammer to drop from when he was with the Dodgers and covering up abuse of a woman by his minor league players,WEIRD DUDE
Jean Matrac
Plus, when you say “his minor league players” it implies he was their manager. He wasn’t. He was the director of player development. He oversaw every Dodger MiL player in their system. He was far removed from the accused player..
AusBball
How good is it to see a young pitcher break through? Great movement on his pitches and now with control. Gausman is really good – but Webb is pitching like his spring training form and that was dominant – but he now also has another season of experience under his belt and that learning is really showing