Shohei Ohtani played his final home game of the 2021 season today, limiting the Mariners to five hits and one run over seven innings, while striking out 10 Seattle batters. Ohtani also added a single as part of a 1-for-3 day, underlining another outstanding two-way performance for the AL MVP favorite.
However, Ohtani’s single was one of only three hits for the Angels, and Ohtani ended up with a no-decision as Los Angeles dropped a 5-1 result to the M’s. Following the game, Ohtani told reporters (including Bill Shakin of The Los Angeles Times) that it had been a “very frustrating, very disappointing” season for the 74-82 Angels, and hinted that he is losing patience with Anaheim’s lack of success.
“I really like the team. I love the fans. I love the atmosphere of the team,” Ohtani said. “But, more than that, I want to win. That’s the biggest thing for me. I’ll leave it at that.”
Such Angels stalwarts as Mike Trout and Joe Maddon have made similar statements in recent days, which isn’t surprising considering that the Halos haven’t had a winning season since 2015. Trout and Maddon each indicated that upgrades need to be made to the L.A. roster, and Ohtani echoed those sentiments, saying “if nothing changes on the team, I think it’s going to be pretty hard to be in playoff contention.”
Ohtani also noted the interesting detail that he and his representatives have yet to begin talks with the Angels about a contract extension. Ohtani is under team control through the 2023 season, so there isn’t yet any immediate rush for the Halos to pursue a new deal, nor is unusual that a team wouldn’t want to open negotiations during a season (especially given all the extra preparations already on Ohtani’s plate). That said, figuring out Ohtani’s future would seem like a top priority for the Angels.
Ohtani is scheduled to hit the open market at age 29, so Anaheim will have to figure out how much they are willing to pay such a unique talent into his 30’s. The other factor could be that the Angels themselves aren’t yet sure about how Ohtani will continue to perform as both a pitcher and a hitter, so they could conceivably hold off on extension talks until perhaps after the 2022 campaign to gather more information on how Ohtani has (or hasn’t) held up after another year of two-way action. Plus, if the Angels do spend big to acquire more talent this winter, that creates another major long-term salary on a payroll that already ha Trout and Rendon locked up on huge contracts for the better part of the decade.
The Angels have already reached one low-level contract extension with Ohtani; a two-year/$8.5MM pact that covered his first two years of arbitration eligibility. That does set up a very intriguing arbitration case for the 2022-23 offseason heading into Ohtani’s final arb year, as his contributions as both a star batter and a star pitcher could certainly make the argument for a precedent-setting arbitration payday. Of course, an extension to avoid arbitration would make the whole situation moot.
Ohtani says: I will not make the same mistake as Mr. Trout.
Trout made no mistake he’s fine with losing as long as the checks cash.
He would have gotten paid anywhere he went. To think a major league athlete doesn’t care about winning is the most ignorant thing I’ve read on the internet this morning, and that says something.
Most of these dudes are just cashing checks. Get real. 10% truly deeply care about winning and legacy. The rest just hope they don’t suck so they get that they stay in the league as long as possible.
You are wrong about that. Professional athletes are some of the most competitive people in the world (you have to be just to make it to the majors). Every one of them wants to win badly; it’s just not in the cards for 80-90% of them most years but they would all love to be on winning teams. It’s what drives them to be the best.
Everyone likes winning but the drive is financial motivation for most.
@lemonlyman To think athletes only care about a World Series and not other factors is also ignorant.
This is their livelihood. They have families and quality of life to consider. I’m sure Trout loves the money, stability and location. Of course he wants to win, but maybe not at the cost of any of those previous things I mentioned.
or.. maybe just maybe there exist both types of athletes?
This is from the everyone gets a trophy crowd. You obviously have not been a one on one convo with a pro athlete. The money is nice but the comp drives them. Plus the love of the game. So much to say but not enough time or desire. You will continue to throw straw man excuses at me. Don’t want to reply and rest of readers don’t want to read your thoughts anymore.
No one is saying the comp doesn’t drive them. But how is joining the Dodgers competitive? Maybe they’d rather win with their team as opposed to just joining a perennial winner. Lots of factors are involved.
How is joining the dodgers competitive? Maybe the thought of winning a title with said perennial winner. In basketball, when kevin durant left to go to warriors, was that for money or for the chance to win a title? This recent offseason mark melancon left the braves because he wanted to play for a contender (funny cause the padres were recently eliminated from postseason play).
I’m trying to think of single case of an athlete not signing with a team because they thought it gave them too much of a chance being on a winner. Even with all the big egos out there I can’t come up with one who figured they were so good they could carry an otherwise mediocre team to victory on their back.
Cliff Lee not wanting to go to the Yankees. Took me 10 seconds to think of one.
Anyway my point is, players have all kinds of reasons for playing with different teams. It’s foolish to assume we know why.
Kawhi Leonard signed with the Clippers and not the Lakers because he wanted to beat Lebron, not win with Lebron
Try thinking longer. Lee said himself he turned down the Yankees because he wanted to get back the World Series with the Phillies, not because the Yankees gave him too much of a chance of playing for a winner. I guess you were in a hurry to answer and missed the actual question.
@BlueSkies He said many things about signing in Philadelphia. Including that he’d rather try to beat the Yankees than play for them. So an argument can be made for both sides.
So perhaps not the best example to pick by me even though it fits the criteria.
Missing my overall point though: All players are of course competitive. Competitive doesn’t always mean signing with a World Series favorite, sometimes it means wanting to beat said favorite. My even larger point is, there are multiple reasons why players want to play for and live in certain cities. It’s not simply about looking at the team that has the best chance to win. It’s foolish gossip to assume we know one way or the other.
Cliff Lee had a very sick son and his doctors were in Philadelphia so he and his wife wanted to stay close to the doctors. That’s why he joined the Phillies!!
Sure, multiple reasons, I’ll buy that. We might be talking at cross purposes here but it seemed to me you were arguing that some players might deliberately sign with a team that isn’t good because they prefer the bigger challenge. When Lee signed back with the Phillies they were certainly very competitive. Whether they were World Series favorites or some such is kind of besides the point. If he’d gone with the Pirates for less money, that would be a different situation. He went with a very good team that gave him an excellent chance of winning, one that just happened not to be the Yankees.
Trout made a mistake? He got paid about a million dollars a game.
If his goal was to get paid well AND win, then so far, he may have made a mistake. Obviously it’s still early – and I wish former Braves AGM Perry Minasian the best, but Trout is a rare species that could have gotten similar (albeit more creative deals) from a handful of upper echelon teams (and a few more that could dig deeper by justifying increased ticket sales/marketing capital a Trout add would bring). Truthfully, he could have his cake and eat it too when not many can.
Mike trout and Ohtani are Angels We’re glad to have them. So many people keep crying that these two superstars are wasting their time well look at it this way there’s 30 teams in the MLB only 2 play for the World Series So there’s 28 other teams along with the Angels have to wait till next year but we still have Mike Trout and showtime Ohtani So stop your sniveling I know you are jealous
I can’t blame Ohtani for wanting to win. Ohtani on the open market will command at minimum $35M/yr. That is a huge commitment considering he has only had 1 great year. He was horrible last year and limited in years prior. If you look at the division leaders, Giants, Brewers, Braves, White Sox, Rays, and Astros, only the Astros are spending that kind of money on a single player., Altuve and Verlander. The other division leaders spread the money around. The Angels have allocated so much to a few individuals, they have to sacrifice in other areas. Unfortunately, pitching has been the sacrificial goat to the chagrin of the fan base.
The off season has to be the year that they finally get something done. The Angels have a lot of money available but also have a ton of holes to fill, 2 starters, a closer, a shortstop, and a backup catcher. The FA pool is much larger than in years prior. The Angels are rid of Heaney, Bundy, and Quintana. If the Angels need to finally ink a credible starter or two. Moreno has ignored the fan base for years, but now the star players, Trout and Ohtani as well as Maddon are echoing the same sentiment. The Angels have a lot of money with a lot of viable pitchers available. It could be a perfect storm or another disaster on the horizon.
The lineup is middle of the road this year, which is ok considering they only have 1 of their 3 superstars available. If healthy, the quartet of Ohtani, Trout, Rendon, and Walsh will be 2nd to none. Three of the four can put up 150+ OPS+.. With everyone healthy, this team will be near the top if not the top next year.
If the Angels strikeout on all available FA or if next year is another season lost due to injury. The Angels have to consider trading Ohtani. Let someone else be the team that pays him that money, while getting some top prospects back. It really does not make it easy to field a competitive team if you are paying 3 players making $35M each per year. A lot of casual fans will want Ohtani on their team. They just know Ohtani is a MVP caliber player., however Ohtani will not be an easy fit for most teams since he only pitches once per week. Most teams still use a 5 man rotation. Trying to accommodate Ohtani and keep a 5 man rotation happy will not be an easy task.
Did you say Ohtani will command $35MM? That is way light. He’s pitching as well as Trevor Bauer or Gerrit Cole, and hitting like Trout– on top of the millions in additional revenue he brings the club from his adoring Asian fans throughout the Pacific. This could be a unique case where this guy gets a 5-year $250MM deal. It could happen. Whatever he gets he will push way past $35MM.
Yes. At minimum $35M/yr. He could get more, but with 1 year of great success, injury past, and with contract AAV trending down, I see at least $35M/yr, but he may get more. I don’t see a team paying him $50M/yr, but possibly $40M/yr.. Shohei is already the top MLB earner in endorsements so not sure his AAV matters.
He is a good hitter, but he isnt as good of a hitter as Trout. His overall WAR can challenge Trout maybe next year, but in terms of offensive WAR, it’s not close. Shohei is a better hitter than Trout is a pitcher though.
For me, Trout is hands-down the best player in baseball, so let’s not use him for comparison. Compare Ohtani’s numbers to any of the elite hitters and he’s right there if not better. Look at his numbers Vs. Tatis? I’m just saying you get two for one– that’s reality. So if you adjust for inflation and industry salary growth– just as a hitter he warrants more than $30MM. As an ace starter he commands at least what Bauer got, but let’s say far less– $20MM… that’s $50MM. total right there. And that’s adjusting both of those individual salaries way down. Now factor in the Asian revenue he generates, and how he puts rear-ends in the seats– I’m telling you that’s what his agents are looking at. It’s a business, and the business is making money. So if a team can pencil out that paying him $50MM makes them a profit of $50MM– they’ll do it. This is like no other player in the game– and that includes Trout. The revenue Ohtani is bringing in is unprecedented. A completely unique set of circumstances.
Capital O, small H…
I completely understand what you are saying when you evaluate his value with the exception of putting people in the seats. Some of it is COVID related, some because Trout isnt there. The Angels are about half attendance of a normal year. He has performed as both a top tier hitter and an ace this year. Trout can still match Ohtani’s WAR numbers while just being a hitter. Trout is making about $35 million mainly because he performs at around the same level every year. Very few teams would even be able to afford a $50M/year player. I don’t see a team paying $15 million per year more than Trout, when Trout can match Ohtani is overall WAR, which is basically a player’s value to a team. That is what I think and I cant remember the last time I was wrong.
We don’t need to trade Shohei, we get him cheap the next 2 years. Someone out there want to give a two way player that clearly ran out of gas at the plate a big contract into their 30’s, go ahead.
If you can’t remember the last time you were wrong then I know you’re not married!!!
Trout signed a team friendly extension, he could have gone to a contender making more money than staying in Anaheim. A guy that performs like Trout year in and year out isn’t just about the paycheck you obtuse tool.
Why in the world would either side enter into a long term agreement now? Dumb article. Ohtani has harnessed his unique skillset successfully for exactly one year. Why would the Angels want to sign him now without seeing more? And Ohtani wants to win and won’t come cheap, so why would he agree on any extension when the possibilities are endless for him?
Maybe because he is one of the best players in the world and in his prime?
He was the best player THIS year. AND THAT’S ALL! Chris Davis was the best slugger at one point. Ryan Howard? Prince Fielder? Tim Lincecum? You ask a player that question after pitching a great game in a loss at the end of a disappointing season, you get an answer like that. The Angels should play this smart, use him up the next two years, and let another team pay him for his accomplishments. There’s no way Ohtani can play both ways at this level long term. He’s out of gas now! He hasn’t looked the same at the plate since the homerun derby.
Johndietz, Ohtani is regarded not only by his fans but by other players as the most talented player in the game. None of those other guys you listed were on Ohtani’s level of overall talent.
You’re acting like he won’t be able to find a balance between hitting, pitching, and rest over a full season. He’s also had a couple pretty stellar starts to end the year and legged out two triples in the same game the other day.
I think it’s more likely he needs to adjust to some change pitchers have made to him.
Ah, averagejoe15……exactly who are these “players” who regard Ohtani as “the best” player in the game…….we know Angels fans rabidly cry he’s the best…….when he is able to put up the average OPS+ of a guy like Trout who does it year after year, then talk, but until then, hate to break it to you but while he may be one of the best, he certainly isn’t “the best”! The analytics police may come after me, but regardless of hitting 2 triples the other day, the guy is batting .250 something……..
And as far as him adjusting to changes pitchers are making to him, every player goes through the same season after season so him making adjustments to different pitching patterns….every player goes through the same!
@rocky, note I said “most talented” not best those are two different things.
Players who have said this include Justin Upton, Marcus Stroman, Matt Barnes, and others.
Your entire argument is pretty much pointless since you misread what you’re responding to.
Couldn’t have said it more true. Once the homers started to pile up all of the sudde every swing was as hard as possible. Half the time his helmet almost came off.
Because if he replicates this season or does better the price tag goes up substantially
“if.” Ohtani’s a heck of a player, but he has an injury history and another year like this might not happen. what happens if you pay say, $30 each for the bat and the arm and he needs TJS again?
Still has a bat but as good as he is with the injuries 25 is the limit
bingo
He’ll be in the 40 mil per year. Cheaper than paying a power hitter and an ace. Angels still saving 10 million a year.
Sometimes, paying market value is a better deal then undercutting market and taking the risk.
He was asked and gave an answer. Why is it dumb to report that?
Ohtani was not asked about an extension. Not in the original LA Times article or anywhere else. He was asked about the success (or lack-thereof) of the team. The whole point of this post is to illicit talking points amongst the fans by making it about a contract extension. Its trash. Sorry you cant see it.
@bucsfan004 The original LA Times piece by Bill Shaikin specifically mentions that Ohtani “said there are no extension talks currently taking place.”
It doesn’t say whether or not he was specifically asked about extension talks but I don’t see why he would mention it if he wasn’t asked (end of the paragraph about Trout passing up FA).
Either way, eliciting conversation is trash now. Got it.
Any reporting you don’t want to hear is trash, biased, or fake. Sadly this how it works now.
@averagejoe
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. You conclude he was specifically asked about contract extension. I disagree.
@bucsfan004 Doesn’t really matter if he was asked or not since he still addressed the lack of extension talks which is the premise of both the post and ensuing conversation which you called trash.
I can see why the Angels would want to lock him up– they’ve seen enough with a guy who pitched to a 9-2 record on a team that will finish more than 10 games under .500, and who will win the MVP (45 dingers), but i can’t see the motivation for Ohtani to sign when the money will be there in two years regardless– even if he blows out his arm he’ll still hit. If the Angels create a winning atmosphere he can stay, and if they don’t the world will be his oyster.
He gone
It’s not worth it, LA. Don’t do it, LA. He’s too injury-prone, LA.
(let texas sign him…hehehehehheheehhehhHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH)
Never muted someone so fast in my life
Yanks
Pirates
This made me lol. Good joke man… Unfortunately, I don’t think the Pirates will ever invest in a player at, or even near, the level it would take to sign Ohtani. The biggest contract the Pirates have ever given was McCutchen’s extension like 10 years ago or so, and that is nothing compared to what Ohtani will most likely get.
Let’s wait on that until two certain sides sign new CBA. Maybe something will change. Or not.
Even if they did pony up the money to sign him they wouldn’t surround him with anybody decent, sad
Only to be traded to Tampa for a bag of balls when his value tanks. He then goes on to win 3 cy young’s and 2 batting titles with the exprays
Was thinking the Orioles myself….
If the Rays sign him, learn to speak French….
As Yankees fans we need to collectively agree to stop saying that every big name free agent will sign with us
Ohtani’s next contract, be it an extension or in free agency, will be for huge money and come with huge risk. The Angels love to spend, but they have enough sense to wait and see how Ohtani continues to hold up. Even if he does stay healthy, I wouldn’t want my team to sign him for the kind of money he’ll command.
Sometimes, when the wind is howling outside and the rain is coming down almost horizontally, I think about our world and how haywire it’s all gone since Ohtani spurned the Mariners, a team now clearly on the up, and signed instead with the Angels. That fateful decision, in conjunction with experiments in particle collision, has clearly torn a hole in the fabric of time and space. One could be forgiven theorizing that if the Mariners actually manage to establish themselves as a roiling powerhouse, that upon his ascension to free agency, Ohtani could help repair our fractured timeline by doing the right thing: signing with the Mariners at last.
Or not. Who cares? It’s just baseball.
I like the M’s, but really.. Look at FA deals they have given out, even contract extensions to established players to retain them the last like 20y and most have come back to be awful.
Look at Beltre forward. Terrible results, the The King’s last deal was brutal.. Cano, Seager. On and on.
just because the Mariners signed Ichiro doesn’t mean all players from Japan want to go to Seattle.
To that same point wasn’t Ichiro part of the reason for Ohtani turning down the Mariners? I recall him saying he wanted to sign with a team that didn’t have a previous Japanese legend
What neither of you seem to recall is that the very public elimination contest regarding where Ohtani would eventually sign came down to just Anaheim and Seattle. I agree that the trend of linking every Japanese player’s expected landing place to Seattle is tiring and trite.
And who can forget the path blazed in Anaheim by legendary fireman Shigetoshi Hasegawa? That’d be a tough act for anyone to follow, even Shohei Ohtani.
I don’t recall this “public elimination contest.” It sounds like the Hunger Games.
Terrible take. Mariners are a terrible run franchise and couldn’t even win with a-rod, Griffey and the unit. No one wants to go there to lose sorry bud
5/$150
The Angels should renegotiate his contract and give him a raise.
I hope he goes to a good team.
He’s not too bright.
If you are playing to win,it will not be with the Los Angeles Angels.
Just yesterday they said they are going to skimp on a SS. What does that tell you Ohtani?
An extra 4.5 hours on a plane and you could be a Yankee. Or stay in LA and be a Dodger. Or Chicago.
Trout and Maddon paving the way of another Wilponesque offseason.
Trout,you don’t want to be the face of baseball. You got your bucks. You chose LA over WINNING.
Well, if someone offers you almost half a billion dollars, are you leaving it on the table?
Who cares about legacy when your family and future generations are set for life?
You don’t think that if he actually hit free agency after the 2020 season that no other team would’ve given him, at the very least, a similar contract than what he signed to stay with the Angels? C’mon now…
Would have easily gotten at least 40% more
I’m not sure if an actual contender that will consistently go to the playoffs and win championships would be able to afford him unless they restructure the contract so they pay him through the year 2100. The Yankees wouldn’t even go over budget during the trade deadline.
Old York – it sounds like you’re saying contending teams can’t afford top-tier players. I may be misinterpreting that, but having top-tier players is how you get a top-tier team. Yes, if you can do that with all young players who haven’t reach free agency yet, that’s ideal for teams, but it screws over the players because they’re getting paid pennies on the dollar for their production. That’s a bit off topic, but these CBA negotiations sure are going to be interesting.
gbs42
It’s possible but not a lot of contenders in this new age are signing mega contracts like that for one player.
The Angels didn’t say they were going to scrimp on SS, a source told Mike DiGiovanna that they might.
Maddon said directly to the media that pitching and SS were the positions he would like to see as priorities.
An extra 4.5 hours on a plane and he would have to live in NYC half the year. After living in OC at the beach that is like moving from paradise to hell.
With no championship. That’s the trade off. Great weather and play for a loser.
Either way,you’re getting paid. Bauer had the right idea-chunk money,short term.
NYY aren’t exactly the defending champs. They’re no shoe in.
This just in yankees haven’t won since 09’ so they are also losers and could not make postseason this year lol. If ohtani was smart he would go to padres or blue jays
An extra 4.5 hours on a plane and he would have to live in NYC half the year. After living in OC at the beach that is like moving from paradise to hell.
==========================================
I’m not sure that two flights a year, with an additional 4.5 hours, is that much of a hardship.
And, if I not mistaken, NY is next to an ocean, so they probably have beaches.
frost – you are taking that shortstop comment out of context…again.
Prov356, I pray you are doing well, my friend. You should be getting some really nice weather around this time, you lucky dog!
Hey Yank! We have been in the low 80s with no clouds so it’s been great. Fall is my favorite. Hope you’re doing well. Looking forward to the winter hopeful that the Angels finally address pitching. They are hinting at it, but..it’s the Angels.
Seeing as how the last time the Yankees won a championship they beat the Angels in the ALCS to do it doesn’t mean playing in New York guarentees a ring.
I could see the Yankees-Ohtani happening for a variety of reasons. I think the point is that the Yankees have a winning culture and will be more competitive ext year, thanks to the fact our team’s weaknesses have been exploited almost to the point of not making the postseason.
Anywho, we may also co wider this is a very smart negotiating tactic to push the Angels to bid higher for an extension for his services. Publicly expressing his dismay and hinting that he’s co side ring other teams can easily be to subtly negotiate more money.
Ohtani is a smart guy, Angels know what they have with him. The marriage will happen.
If he wants to win, he should look elsewhere. LAA are not the team for that, at least not with the current management.
Current management that’s been there for 1 season, what a horrible take.
The owner has been running the show so I stand corrected.
If he had chosen the Mariners we would have made other moves last season and this past off season and would be a real contender…oh well he made his bed and that’s fine no sour grapes.
I agree with whoever said this is a terrible article. The quotes are fairly clear right? No chance in the world he signs long term there. They have no pitching, end of story. He loves the fans and his teammates lol, yeah he’d better say that because he’s stuck there a bit longer. The article should have gone something like “enjoy it for one more year Angels fans because this time next year he’s demanding a trade”. It’s clear your team is in the toilet and spiraling downward where my M’s have been for so long.
If he wants to win and that’s most important why in the world did he pick the Angels in the first place lol!?
Mariners and Angels players will spend October doing the same things, watching other teams in the playoffs and playing golf.
Should have went to Seattle Mariners would be in playoffs if he had.
Want to win? Then, why choose the Angels in the first place?
Teams make promises about their plans, but they don’t always keep them.
He really only had 15 choices when he signed. If he wanted to stay on the west coast, it was 3 options. He knows he likely needs to be a DH to not wear down further on defense, even if he’s athletic enough to play the field. With the likely rule changes, in two years, he may have 30 teams calling his agent
Unless LAA offers him 35M+ AAV, he’s not signing before FA. The angels would be smart to try at about 25M AAV, because his bat or arm alone are likely worth that. But no way he signs that extension, with the roster in the state it is
I don’t think money drives this kid. He’s already a multi-millionaire and he knows he has a massive payday coming in two years– so it doesn’t matter if the Angels offer him $50MM a year right now– he wants to win. And whatever the Angels are willing to give him he’ll get with the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Boston, San Francisco, Cubs, or St. Louis.
He’s locked in at $5.5M next year, which is an absolutely INSANE discount, even for one year.
I hate to say it, but yeah, Ohtani has made himself so valuable and the Angels sucks so much and this is such a limited overall sample size with so much wear and tear on his entire body, that it makes no sense for either side to sign any kind of extension if it’s about anything other than money for Ohtani and if the Angels don’t want to make another $30+ Million a year mistake.
I mean, if the Angels want to lock in the cost of his last year of arbitration, that’d be fine by both sides, I imagine:
1 year/$30M on top of 1 year/$5.5M would be fine, I imagine.
Otherwise, any less to Ohtani for one year and any more than one additional year for either side makes no sense.
The idea that the manager is saying “if we don’t start winning around here…” as if that is not his job is objectively hilarious.
Someone should have explained to Ohtani that only about 5 or 6 teams actually win in MLB, the rest are window dressing.
I guess the Rendon signing didn’t help LAA’s pitching much, eh?
The concept of objective hilarity is kind of an oxymoron. Anyway a manager can only play the roster he was given and I don’t know that anyone believes objectively or otherwise that the Angels front office has given Maddon a good one.
AND, although Josh brings up a very valid point, many organizations run their teams through analytics, and the managers simply communicate the directions, which drives me insane. I am not sure if that’s how the Angels operate, however.
I dunno about the Angels, but I do know that the day of management by feel is long gone. As far as in-game management is concerned most managers are implementers of the FO game plan. If they deviate much from that, they will become ex-managers in a hurry.
He should’ve signed somewhere else if he didn’t want to lose.
The Angels would love to extend him but Ohtani is a smart fellow and isn’t interested in losing year after year like Trout. He’ll get paid where ever he is and he knows it. Unlike Trout winning is a priority and I’m glad Ohtani is doing what Trout should have which is make that crappy organization address the losing or say goodbye. My opinion is that he’ll go play someplace else because that team has no clue what they’re doing. First of all they have no idea how to cultivate pitchers. I mean none. Then instead of going all out for Cole they go all out for Rendon. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to know that was dumb. Look if you can’t draft and groom pitchers then buy them and I don’t mean reclamation projects I mean actual solid rotation pieces. Rendon was an unnecessary signing when they needed arms desperately. One look at that farm system and any fan can see they’re in trouble.
Mystery – I am very happy that we didn’t sign Cole for that kind of money. Talk about tying up salary for years… Our pitching staff is way more than one pitcher away from making a difference. What we could have and should have done with the Cole money was acquire 2 or 3 pitchers who could have started to make a difference. I don’t remember who all was in the FA class that year but there were plenty to choose from if I remember right. Instead we spent the money on Rendon, who has hardly played, and when he has, he has been mediocre.
I would say that anyone on the pitching staff not named Ohtani should be prepared to not be on the Angels in 2022. But I’m not in charge.
Not Going all out for cole? They did he just didn’t want to be an angel. At least know what your talking about before you go off the rocker about something. Rendon still filled a hole for angels as they had no 3rd basemen at the time and rendon was one of the best players in the game. Angels need one of the top short stops and 1/2 arms to compete. Also resigning raisel is a must
Really hope he makes it to free agency. Will be very interesting to see how his next contract gets structured and how many teams would see him as a 2 way piece long term. Personally I don’t see him doing both long term especially when his salary jumps into the 20 or 30 million range
Try 40 million.
Try 50; yes, 50M. Or part ownership in wherever he goes. Depends of course on his repeating his performance going forward, but if he does, he blows all the salary records out the window.
The guy is paradigm busting, and a Free Agent contract would reflect that.
Economically you’re right. You get a true #1 pitcher and a cleanup hitter, and huge revenue from overseas– Ohtani is a money making machine.
If the Angels had the courage to trade him this offseason…what could they get in return? I mean…there are only a few organizations that would pony up that number of prospects for a huge acquisition right? Who could pull it off and still be competitive for 2 seasons? Then…if the Angels were good because of that trade they could sign Ohtani in 2 seasons as a free agent! Don’t think it would happen…but could any organization make a legit offer for him?
I think several organizations — although his value, which is clearly immense, is hard to pinpoint based on the rarity of what he does — could make legit offers, but an Ohtani trade won’t be entertained this offseason.
Now, if the Halos are out of the race come next July, then a deal becomes more likely. The Angels have been mediocre now for far too long, and if they continue on that path, a shakeup seems like an inevitable route.
This gives the Angels 2 years to do something. If they don’t dramatically improve he’ll walk. I think he has made this clear. Obviously money matters, but I’m sure he’ll get plenty from endorsements from 2 continents. I like that he’s lighting a fire under the LAA leadership. They have been an afterthought for a decade, and that’s with a generational talent.
Maddon speaking out speaks volumes as well and he was very specific about it. His contract expires after next season and I think the Angels would’ve extended him by now or very soon if Maddon wants to stay beyond ’22.
OHTANI, TROUT AND MADDON are all saying the same thing. A line has been drawn in the sand for Moreno. It’s now or never.
This is just my opinion. If a person is to take Shoei Ohtani at his word, then he will play out his existing contract and leave the Los Angeles Angels. The Angels are not going to be a winning team. They may get to the playoffs, they may even get to the World Series at some point {I doubt it}. First of all they have the huge Mike Trout contract, then they have the Anthony Rendon contract, what are they going to pay for Ohtani? They are talking about Max Scherzer as well. The Angels are not going to spend to have a super team, they are not like that.
Mike Trout decided money was more important than winning in my opinion. He will not get a World Series ring with the Angels.For the most part a player is either competitive one way or the other…they either want money or they want to win. Generally speaking, you rarely get both. I think that it is important to Ohtani to be competitive and win and that is why I think he will go elsewhere.
I agree with all of your points. A lot of people scoff at the notion that Ohtani chose the Angels yet wants to win. Same for Trout. Moreno has always talked a big game convincing others (he’s quite good at it) that the Angels are a contending team. I’m not hopeful that they’ll spend on SP until after Upton’s contract expires.
You wanna bet Upton is cut loose? If they did it to a much more productive Pujols they will most certainly bite the bullet with Upton.
He will join Vlady Jr so they can take turns winning MVPs!
If they were to try and extend him without overpaying.. last year was probably the year to do it. Now that he’s really blown up it is going to cost a lot of $$$$
With a little luck Trout and Rendon return, healthy. That will dramatically improve his hitting (way more coverage). They pick up a pitcher or two. And they are competitive.
Ohtani will probably wait and see. And if the NL adopts the DH he’ll have a choice of 30 teams not just 15 in the fall of 2023.
Next year Ohtani will ask to play RF everyday, hit 50 plus HR , 25 assists , win the Gg, make 30 plus starts , win the Cy and MVP, ask for $50 mill a year for ten years as opening bid.
2 years to FA, so no
Only reason he ended up on the Angels was because of the DH. Once the DH is in play in the NL, he will go to a good team.
Makes sense to me!
I don’t blame him if he demands a trade or leaves for free agency after the 2023 season. Until this team gets a different owner and new management, they’re not going to win anything. They only want to spend money on big free agent bats and invest as little as possible into pitching. It’s been this way for almost 10 years now and they’ve only made postseason once during that time. This offseason is going to be no different. Can’t wait to see how many washed up loser SP’s they sign to 1yr deals.
Errr they actually just got new management last winter. Perry actually brought in raisel, Cobb who have been excellent. Growth from sandoval, Rodriguez, suarez. You should really look into things before commenting if you did you’d know that billy eppler was at the helm the last 4/5 years.
Apparently you should look into things before commenting. Let’s talk about Perry’s pitching acquisitions shall we? Quintanna, Cobb, Slegers, Claudio, Cishek, Iglesias and Watson. Probably the only 2 decent acquisitions out of that group is Iglesias and Cobb. And even though Cobb has put up average #’s for a #5 rotation pitcher, he still pitched <100 innings which isn't going to help us. Everyone else in that group is garbage. So, yeah, Perry really didn't do much better than Eppler.
Quintana was a bust, but Minnassian was able to get rid of him. Cobb was a big success and most likely will be signed at a reduced salary for next season. Slegers the jury is still out. Claudio was a bust, but not horrible. Cishek has had a solid season and a very good second half– it cost them nothing. Iglesias was a massive steal. Watson was okay, and flipped for two arms. And when you consider the financial restraints Minnassian was operating under I think he did well– all things considered.
Slegers was a bust there is nothing left to decide about that. Cishek was incosistent…despite his #’s he cost us quite a few games. Cobb was decent for a #5 pitcher but only 88 IP….that ain’t gonna get it done. If he can be re-signed for cheap then bring him back but there needs to be 4 other guys in the rotation better than him because you can’t rely on Cobb to be your #1 or 2……..or even #3 or #4.
We’ll see what Minnassian does in the offseason but I wasn’t impressed in his first year as GM.
You lose me on “”Cobb has put up average #’s for a #5 rotation pitcher””. I see the low innings but his numbers with more innings would be great. How many AL teams had someone better not many. And that record was not luck They should be extending him and Iglesias now. They both have stated they want to stay and the price might go up as other offers come in. I think both are underrated.
You’re only speculating his #’s would be great if he pitched more innings. Based on his previous seasons with Baltimore I highly doubt it. My point is, the guy is NOT a #2 or #3 pitcher in your rotation, he’s at best a #4 or #5.
Your point is ok. As I said the only problem I had was the ”Cobb has put up average #’s for a #5 rotation pitcher” I find that not true. I also think about his numbers in Baltimore and look how the defense and bullpen was and the ballpark. More importantly look at his improvement of movement on his main pitch as well as his fastball and increased velo on his fastball all to best of his career. He may not continue this years pace but with his inproved stuff, he should be much improved from in Baltimore and with a chance at being pretty good even though he is getting a little older.
If the Halos are committed to retaining Ohtani and winning, they’ll have to consider a 200 million plus payroll.
No question! Or they can trade Rendon to free up money. Ohtani has the value of a cleanup hitter and a #1 starter– on top of being an international star that generates huge revenue abroad. His value will be as great as Trout’s economically.
I think we have a really good foundation with Trout, Fletcher, Ohtani, Walsh, Marsh, Rendon, Stassi, Adell, and even Mayfield’s and Rengifo’s defense. We really only need a pitching revamp, a SS, and a back up catcher. We drafted 21 pitchers and no position players this year. So Manasian knows the need. We have Ohtani, Rodriguez, Cobb, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, and maybe a couple others who might be worth salvaging as depth. This winter should be specific and targeted to address these issues.
The Angels are closer to competing than many people think. They have a ton of young, cost controlled SPs arriving in Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers, Rodriguez, Canning, Bachman, etc. The same for RPs. Re-sign Cobb and Iglesias, add a TOR guy to pair with Ohtani and they are a playoff team next year.
You are right, but they need a legitimate star at the top of the rotation, and a true #2 who will give them innings. Only Ohtani coming off TJ surgery will break 100 innings. You can’t go into the next season with Sandoval, Canning, Barria, Suarez, Rodriguez, Detmers and expect to seriously compete with the Astros, Oakland and Seattle– let alone the Dodgers, Chicago, Yankees, Red Sox etc. If they get two big arms at the top then all these names you list provide great depth to the rotation and the bullpen. Bachman needs a year in the minors. 5 of the names you listed have been on the IR. I do agree that if they make the right moves at short (trade for Mondesi of KC), add a league average outfielder to play right (Adell is not ready), resign Iglesias, add to the bullpen, and add two significant starters they can compete for the title. They can do it if Moreno allows it.
Fong – I agree that Adell is not ready. But I would rather fill those holes from within and spend any available money on pitching. We have to stop bringing up young pitchers who are not ready because we skimped on pitching. We are ruining them by not letting them learn to pitch at every level. This winter has to be different.
I actually appreciate Ohtani’s honesty. And he’s not alone. Maddon is going to walk as well if they don’t do as he asks– which is to sign or trade for two top of the rotation starters. Maddon looks like he’s aged 10-years. And Trout is demanding they sign Scherzer– so all the big players are on the same page. If Moreno doesn’t go all in he’s going to lose Ohtani and Trout. If they can’t make the playoffs and win over the next two years Ohtani will leave and Trout will demand a trade– who could blame either? Six consecutive years below .500. It’s akin to malpractice. Maddon won with Scioscia, Tampa, and Chicago– he’s not going to stick around to be a pinata.
After reading all the comments everyone seems fixated on money and winning titles. IMO guys like Trout and Ohtani the money is always gonna be there for them after that if you’re an athlete whats left is competition. Being on the Yankees or Dodgers doesn’t guarantee a title what it means is that you get to compete for one a chance at the World Series a chance in the postseason, baseball is flukey sometimes teams who shouldn’t win do (Cards on 2006). The fact is when your team is out in early September it’s gotta be frustrating. The Angels need a lot of help just to get to the playoffs, its a bad look for MLB that 2 of the best players in the game are making plans for a vacation in early September.
If you look at the actual team they’re close on paper when healthy. Stassi has performed in the top tier of catchers this year. Walsh was an All-Star at first with numbers close to Olsen– and he missed a month of the season. Fletcher should win a gold glove and until three weeks ago was leading all of baseball in hits. They need a shortstop, but at third Rendon is a possible MVP candidate. Trout in center, and most likely Marsh in left– they need to add a league average right fielder. They need two top of the rotation starters, resign Iglesias and another big bullpen arm. But with all their young starters they now have a lot of depth, and long relief possibilities with Rodriguez, Detmers, Barria, Suarez, Canning– and some of these arms might be used in a trade package for an outfielder, or shortstop. Matt Thaiss, Taylor Ward, Rengifo, and others are all candidates to be part of a trade package as well.
As a long time fan these may be the toughest years as expectations are high due to having a few superstars. Next year the Angels need to be make or break. If they do not make the playoffs and if they for the most part remain healthy, it may be the time to trade Trout and Ohtani. The issue down the line will be payroll and filling in the gaps. Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, a couple of front line starters and 2 bullpen pieces will cost 175 million or more. Is Artie willing to go to 250 million in 2023. Likely not.
I agree. And I think Joe Maddon basically said what you’re saying. They either step up and fill the spots they need, or break the whole thing down and trade Ohtani, Trout and Rendon. The thought of trading Trout makes me ill, but if the team remains satisfied only fighting for a second wild card on the margins, and not even being able to get to .500 for six seasons– they have to let those stars go somewhere else for the good of baseball. There certainly would be no shortage of suitors, and the haul back for those three guys would be massive. 5-6 top prospects for Ohtani and Trout each, and 3-4 for Rendon. They add at minimum 15 top prospects to go with what they already have. But either way they have to make a decision and commit to it.
Only one of those contracts is movable and its not Trout or Rendon’s.
Who exactly do you think is going to pony up all that prospect capital and be willing to pay the remaining almost $260 million for Trout, or Rendon, whose salary jumps from $28 to $36 million next season and he missed 104 games this year?
Generally speaking comments like “if we don’t start winning around here” are mostly threats to the Manager so unless Maddon has the Scioscia deal where no matter how bad it gets he somehow can’t be fired thats for him to worry about.
Excuse me, but you’re wildly wrong. Trout and Ohtani are arguably the two best players in the game. Trout is 29 and Ohtani is a 27 year-old ace pitcher and cleanup hitter. What are you talking about? Sure, no one will want either of those guys except for half the clubs in baseball starting with both the Dodgers and the Yankees. The Dodgers gave Bauer nearly $40MM for a season but they can’t afford Ohtani or Trout? You really believe the Yankees wouldn’t find room for either or both of those players? How about the Giants? And Rendon is one of top third basemen in the game– there is always a market for an elite third basemen. And just so we’re clear, multiple GMs have stated off the record that they’d give Ohtani whatever he wanted. The amount of revenue he is generating from Asia is mind boggling, on top of putting fannies in the seats here. He’s got more homers than Tatis and better numbers than Kershaw, and he’s got 25 stolen bases, and he’s number one in WAR– the only thing he doesn’t do is sell programs in between innings.
I never mentioned Ohtani. I said Trout and Rendon so right there half of your argument is moot. The Dodgers gave Bauer $40 million per year on essentially a three year contract. They are not locked in to a decade long deal. The Dodgers could have had Bryce Harper but were not willing to do the years. When they were willing to do the years they signed Mookie Betts and all he has done at the beginning of the deal is have one of his worst seasons offensively.
Sure everyone would love to have Trout except the 9 years and $260 million dollars on his contract and the fact that the Angels conceivably could never get fair value for Trout if he reverts back to his former self and this year’s injuries are not a sign of things to come
I’m not sure what game you’re following? How about Gerrit Cole’s contract? Harper? Are you really serious that teams would not line up for Mike Trout? The point about Bauer is that he’s nowhere near Trout’s league. Trout’s contract is not crippling, and he’s 29! For what he does and the revenue he generates he’s a bargain. There are also any number of teams that would make a deal for Rendon today. You can hypothesize all you want but that is fact– not conjecture.
Hold up. When it’s a 3 year deal, it drops to 34M aav
What’s funny/dumb/sad/whatever is Bauer bet on himself with that contract then goes and is an idiot
Both of those players you mentioned signed big money deals as free agents, we are talking about trades. I’m not arguing that Trout is not a great player and that teams wouldn’t want him but facts are contracts like his don’t get moved very often. The only two cases where massive contracts like his have been moved were Alex Rodriguez, whoem the Rangers paid $67 million of the remaining $179 million of his deal at the time and only received 1 season of Alfonso Soriano and minor leaguer Joaquin Arias. And the Marlins trading Giancarlo Stanton to the Yankees for Starlin Castro, a pair of minor leaguers and agreed to pay down $30 million of the remaining $295 million of his contract. In both instances the teams sending the players were desperate to get rid of either the player or the contract (or in ARod’s case both), the Angels are not desperate to get rid of Trout so they would command (and rightfully so) a kings ransom for Trout (no Starlin Castro’s or Joaquin Arias’s) and would not be in a position to want to pay down any portion of his contract.
The Dodgers overpaid Bauer as a knee-jerk reaction to the moves the Padres were making. $40 million per season on a 3 year contract with opt-outs after each of the first two seasons says they were hoping he’d have a great year and leave next winter (that definitely blew up on them) and that is why you don’t sign players as a reaction to what someone else does (ask Yankee fans about Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright)
And no matter what you want to say no team is going to take Rendon without the Angels paying down a hefty portion of his contract
Dude, the Red Sox traded Mookie Betts and the Dodgers promptly gave him a Mike Trout deal. Trout is the greatest player of a generation– and you seriously think there would be no takers? I don’t know what to say? If you really believe that you are living on a different planet. You don’t think the Giants would trade for Trout? The Padres? Yankees? Dodgers? They’d all pass and say it’s too much money? There is no value the Angels could get back that would equal his talent. If there is no market for Trout then there is no market for anyone.
Interesting management all around this year. Ohtani should of had an extension before the season started. They already got him cheap once, but this season changed that.
They wasted 40man spots with Thais, Rengifo (TRADED FOR), Ward and Rojas who were drafted and delvolped by the Angels. Ward was on pace for 45 2B, 24 Hr 90 RBI over 690 PA. I’m sure that pace falls off over a full year. Instead they rolled out 30+ Mayfield, Wong (ONLY 26), Lagares, Eaton and the Goose.
They brought up Adell too soon last year to start his clock and Reid Detmers this year. Instead of bringing in a big name starter, it was Quintana like Teheran last year who stole Barrias starts. Got zero for Jose Iglesias, who is now playing 2nd for the redsox. Cobb, R. Iglesias and Bundy will all walk and get Major league deals next year.
They need 2 legit starters. If they don’t sign them it will be a ton of these kids they showcased this year in a trade. All of them had decent numbers in the minors. They just drafted their backup class if they do go that route.
They will need a hitting SS next year. Fletchers bat is not enough to go light again. Arte will try to go for the flash of Baez. I think Story is a better fit after the thumbs down.
Treatment of Pujols was shady. I honestly was never a fan of the large contract or the guy. Hes become an awesome Dodger. Got to root for the guy now as everyone seems to love their favorite uncle. Runs like grandpa! YouTube 100 year old sprinters. The speed of these 100 year old peeps puts Albet and myself to shame!
I often wonder why not sign an army of relief pitchers to minor league deals before spring training. They never do. Scored guys like Checik and Watson last minute that way after being cut. They themselves cut Kirby Yates when they needed a roster spot before he became the best closer in baseball.
They don’t want to waste the money in spring training and apparently have the worst facilities for their minor leaguers. Who would want to play for them once they finally make it to the show.
Even with Trout and Ohtani.
I haven’t see the Angels Stadium this empty in years.
I’ve been preaching trade Trout and Ohtani for prospects.
It is time or the Angels will begin to permanently lose Fans. Not to other teams but don’t with them as a baseball team.
#MakeAngelsGreatAgain
You’re right. There has to be more to the game then just waiting for Ohtani to come up, or pitch– and in the past years fast forwarding to Trout’s at bats. How can a team spending this much money with three legit MVP candidates not even play .500 ball for six years? They are incredibly boring to watch. I’m not paying to watch Rojas and Captain Jack, and Taylor Ward and Rengifo, and the rest of the triple-A gang. What Ohtani said yesterday was spot on.
Lmfao all you jealous bums are crying over the fact that Ohtani didn’t sign with your team lol. Tough luck, even tougher when Moreno backs up the brinks truck and signs em for another 6-7 years. You swear he’ll let his biggest attraction walk away. Angels will make a run next year once they sign a few arms from the scherzer, gausman, Ray, stroman, or Jon gray pool of pitchers.
You are assuming they want to to go to the Angels. Why would they? When other teams in contention need starting pitching. Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Giants, Padres hell even the Mets I think they’d be in a better position if they didn’t get hit with deGrom’s injury. As for all those young players they got, they are young players they don’t always pan out, as a Yankee fan I see Gleyber, Andujar as prime examples of those that didn’t pan out. As for who would take Trouts big contract you can bet the next CBA will raise the luxury tax limit meaning those big market teams can spend big again. FYI the Yankees positioned themselves to Gerrit Cole by not getting big name free agents for years waiting to get money off the books. Stanton’s contract was a trade with the Marlin’s paying close to 30 mil for and was an alternative to getting Bryce Harper or Machado. As Ohtani he’s gonna be a Dodger he wants to stay on the west coast like every other athlete wants to nowadays (wait til the big one hits, I saw San Andreas lol).
I like how you went from Scherzer to Jon Gray. Angels kind of free agency.
When you limit your teams you limit your options.
Understand his feelings. At the same time, one of the reasons though not the only reason the Angels haven’t won in 2018-20 was his unavailability on the mound, which was understandably due to injury, and his poor performance at the plate in 2020.
I think it might be worth exploring trade possibilities this winter if they can get a good return. His value should be high. What will it be after 2022? He still has 2 years of control before free agency with a manageable contract for 2022.. It probably won’t happen, but I’d at least listen to offers.
The fascination with the two-way player thing has faded. It’s more of a hinderance to team flexibility. Since he is only a DH and a pitcher, you have one less position player.
With Trout and Rendon getting older, having the DH spot open to spot them games as a DH would be good. Having Ohtani hit on the days he pitches removes the DH advantage which hurt the Angels at least once this year.
On the Angels side, they have to stop nickel and diming it on pitchers. They didn’t need to get Gerritt Cole, but they could’ve done better than Julio Teheran. They lucked out on Bundy in 2020 and Cobb in 2021, but you can’t rely on luck. It’s a nice outlier, but it should not be your main “go to” option. Scherzer would be the best option. Even if he’s past his prime, his leadership would be great for the young pitchers.
Scherzer and Ohtani atop the rotation would look pretty good…
Now sign Gausman, or another 1b or solid #2 and pencil Ohtani in at 3 and they can beat anyone with that offense (when healthy). Maddon is demanding two top starters.