Amed Rosario found his swing in August. The Indians shortstop slashed .372/.397/.584 in 121 plate appearances across 26 games in August. That effort buoyed his overall line to .288/.327/.422, two percent better than average by measure of wRC+. Among qualified shortstops, Rosario ranks 13th in the Majors, firmly between Javier Baez and Nicky Lopez. Both Baez and Lopez are considered plus defenders, however, while the jury is still out on Rosario (-8 DRS, 1.4 UZR,-1 OAA in 876 innings).
In fact, there’s question as to whether Rosario will be a shortstop at all next season, writes Ryan Lewis of the Akron Beacon Journal. The uncertainty is driven not so much by his glovework, however, but because of Andres Gimenez, whose defensive prowess makes him a better long-term fit for the position. Gimenez has yet to hit for the Indians, but he tore up Triple-A with a .287/.342/.502 line. Still just 22-years-old, the Indians hope that he can seize shortstop as his own next season. If that happens, Rosario could be expendable.
When played together, Cleveland has put Gimenez at the keystone, though that doesn’t seem to be the long-term plan. That might speak to an uneasiness about playing Rosario at second, or it could be that they’d just rather keep the consistency of Rosario at short for this season. In theory, Rosario could have a future at second, but we haven’t seen him play there yet, and Lewis suggests he’s more likely to be utilized in the outfield.
Rosario’s development at the plate, therefore, hasn’t solidified Cleveland’s shortstop picture, but it does provide the organization with the one thing every front office wants these days: flexibility. Rosario could well be used at shortstop, but he could also return to the outfield or even be used as trade bait, Lewis notes.
If he does go back to the grass, it’s more likely to be in one of the corners than in center. Myles Straw has stabilized center, allowing Rosario to slide to a corner to potentially cover for Josh Naylor until he’s healthy enough to return. Rosario spent 123 1/3 innings in center this year, not enough of a sample to make a decision about his defensive ability there, but enough to grant credence to the idea of Rosario as a supersub.
The concern would be that Rosario’s bat doesn’t yet play as a plus in an outfield corner. That said, the depth at shortstop league-wide is such that the positions aren’t as far apart as in the past. By wRC+, Rosario would rank 18th among right fielders with at least 400 plate appearances, or 14th among left fielders – suggesting that Rosario could be a passable option in a corner.
He certainly could have a role as a supersub who plays everyday, but he might bring more value to a club who wants to install him as their everyday shortstop. He has two years of team control remaining, which adds to his appeal.
What happens next might depend on how the 25-year-old finishes the season. Cleveland has time to figure this out, but if Rosario has finally established himself as an everyday regular, the rest is gravy. Now they just have to figure out what to do with him. Can we point them in the right direction?
(poll link for app users)
hiflew
People always say that you can never have enough pitching, because they are always getting hurt, and never have enough shortstops, because with their athleticism, you can always move them elsewhere. I agree about the pitching, but I really believe that players switching positions, even shortstops, is a lot more difficult than given credit for. Playing defense is not something you just learn over the course of a month, especially at the big league level. Playing a defensive position well requires years of repetition. You have to know every aspect of the position without even thinking about it because you also have to be able to do the hardest in sports as well, hit big league pitching.
If you need an outfielder or a second baseman, then trade Rosario or Gimenez for one. You could probably pick up another asset or two along with getting the piece you need.
When it was a game.
I agree with you that some players have a comfort zone and don’t want to move from it. But harper went from Catherine to outfield seemless. Yogi Berra and Gary Carter were outfielders till the open spot was at Catcher. Ripken and around to 3b no problems.I think it’s a metal thing like when Hundley and piazza moved was a disaster.
hiflew
Well you have to look at your examples there. The guys you mentioned are Hall of Famers and Harper possibly will be one day. Plus you also have to look at the timing of their moves. All of the catchers made the move well before their big league promotion. Ripken made the move after his body could no longer take the punishment of shortstop. And by that time, he had a pretty good grasp on how to hit major league pitching so learning a position on the fly wouldn’t have been as big a detriment.
I’m not saying it cannot be done. Obviously it has been done with success many times in the past. And it has also been done many times with failure. I am just saying that with young players that are still learning how to hit at the big league level, the best course of action would be to not have them worry about playing a position other than the one they have been playing for years.
Cosmo2
Moving from SS to 2B really should’ve an issue. 2B is basically an easier version of SS. Moving to the OF is quite a change, but one Rosario might have to make anyway. Don’t force him in there, but if he’s just not an infielder why not try him in the OF? Just expect little and let success be a pleasant surprise.
hiflew
Having played infield for several years, I couldn’t disagree more. They are similar, but they are opposite sides of the batter unless there is a shift on. That doesn’t seem like much, but it really is.
People have a dominant eye the same as a dominant hand. You want your dominant eye to be the one closer to the batter. A second baseman (and first baseman) should be right eye dominant, a shortstop (and third baseman) should be left eye dominant. I was pretty good at third base and decent at shortstop but I wasn’t very good at second and I was godawful at first. And that is one possible difference.
Cosmo2
I agree with this. It’s a matter of talent and “dominance”. I just don’t think it’s a matter of learning. But with SS, ideally you should be able to range well to both sides, but if you can’t, you can’t. I definitely see your point there.
When it was a game.
When the Mets signed Kaz Matsui from Japan and moved Jose Reyes from short to second is good example. Reyes was outstanding shortstop but at second looked so lost and had terrible instincts. Guess it can really go either way based on player.
When it was a game.
Not trying to but heads but think really is the mindset of the player.
bucsfan0004
How about Cleveland go after a legit outfielder? As a Bucs fan, i’d like to see the Pirates acquire some of that good pitching for Bryan Reynolds. Rosario is fine somewhere on the infield
Mikehoncho69
Why the hell would the pirates trade Reynolds for Rosario
Kapler's Coconut Oil
I don’t think that’s what he’s suggesting. He’s just saying that instead of moving Rosario to the OF, they trade for Reynolds instead. They’re giving up pitching, not Rosario in his hypothetical.
getright11
20 grade on your reading compensation, Mike
User 589131137
Jesus Christ THIS! Stop with all the f***** games and get some real corner outfielders!
CKinSTL
I think he is most likely starting in LF. Since he seemed to have offensive woes while he was transitioning to CF and then back to short, I do not think they will move him around the diamond as a bench player.. plus, the Indians already have Chang, Miller, and Clement on the roster who can play multiple infield positions. They don’t need another utility guy.
DarkSide830
i think he should start somewhere, SS or otherwise. oh, and extend him too.
walls17
Probably will stick around next season in some capacity while they manipulate the service time of their top SS prospects Arias and Freeman.
CKinSTL
Let’s face it, a roster spot is a scarce resource. You only get one starter and SS and 2B and a few bench pieces. They have Amed, Owen Miller, Arias, Gimenez, Yu Chang, and Ernie Clement that could potentially fill those spots.. there are more players than positions available. Someone has to be the odd man out, but it doesn’t mean it is service time manipulation.
As for Freeman, he only has 40 games at AA and is missing the second half of this season due to injury.. it would seem very unlikely he will start the season in Cleveland next year.
Cosmo2
Why not? If not SS, he can play 2B or the OF. Considering how bad Cleveland’s OF has been lately why give him up? Roster spots are not as valuable as is talent. (And a roster spot is not exactly a “scarce resource”. It it is then why does almost every team have at least one replacement level player on its bench?)
CKinSTL
Are you referring to Amed being on the roster? I agree with that. My point was keeping developing prospects in the minors is not (always) service time manipulation – it is basic roster management. You have a few guys ahead of Arias (in terms of experience and development) that are already on the roster or that need to be added to the roster to avoid exposure to the Rule 5 draft.
The Indians have plenty of quality options up the middle and they have a lot of guys they need to roster to protect from the Rule 5 draft (Freeman, Lavastida, Valera, Rocchio, Palacios).. that is why Arias is unlikely to begin the season on the roster. Of course, there is always the chance that his performance just knocks the door down… but it is not a decision that will be made on skill grades and his prospect pedigree.
Cosmo2
Oh I see what you were saying now.
Col_chestbridge
Honestly I think Freeman profiles long term as a 2B. Hits well enough for it. Arias, Gimenez, and Rocchio are all much superior with the glove. The question is which one of them will hit well enough to keep the position.
sufferforsnakes
With Tyler Freeman, Gabriel Arias, and Richard Palacios fast approaching Cleveland, I don’t see Rosario lasting as a SS…..or Gimenez lasting with the organization. I’d have Rosario taking reps in LF during winter ball, and look for a trade partner for Gimenez.
syndergaardshair
Trade him to the Mets for Lindor
Cosmo2
Now you’re thinking. You forgot to include the Mets paying off the bulk of Lindor’s salary.
JoeBrady
The only reason I checked into this thread was to post:
“Trade Rosario to the NYMs for Lindor, and the NYMs pick up half of Lindor’s salary”.
But that’s not the funny part.
The funny part is the Cleveland might not do it.
tidybowlman
I’m happy with Lindor. He just needs time.
Cosmo2
Would be ok if he wasn’t so absurdly overpaid.
andremets
The vast majority of big ticket free agents struggle in NY in their first year. Quite a few rebound in year 2. Good examples would be Carlos Beltran, Bobby Bonilla, Tom Glavine.
Cosmo2
First of all, I question that anecdotal evidence. Do most really struggle in their first year? I doubt that’s actually true. And anyway, he could be twice as good as he is and still not be worth anywhere near that contract.
hiflew
There is no person on Earth worth that much money. But we’ll just not argue that point.
I question judging someone’s job performance based on their salary in any way whatsoever. Especially when it is not even your money. I understand why the person paying the salary would raise the question, but why would it bother anyone else in any way at all?
The point of how good a baseball player is has nothing to do with how fat his wallet is. Exactly how much money should Lindor give back in order for him to be a good enough shortstop in your mind? If Lindor at his salary is only slightly better than a minimum salary guy, he should still be preferable to a Mets fan because any better performance is better for the team.
I even question the fact of why player’s salaries are public knowledge. It is really no one’s business how much money any other person makes at their job. I would be offended if someone asked how much money I made, let alone questioned I was worth that much.
Cosmo2
The idea of money matters because there is only so much a team can spend. That’s why I care. Every dollar spent on a player like Lindor is a dollar less for the overall plan. It always baffles me when that point flies by some fans. I’m looking at the overall plan. In that regard Lindor needs to be valuable because he’s taking up a large amount of the budget. It has nothing to do with whether it’s my money or not, it has to do with how it impacts the teams future flexibility.
hiflew
I understand the economics of the situation, probably quite a bit better than you, but that still is not the point. As of tomorrow, even if Lindor retires from baseball and forfeits the rest of his contract completely, who are you going to spend that money on? There are no free agents to spend the money on right now.
The economics of baseball plays a big priority in the off season. But once a team is committed to a player, then all that matter is his performance. All you are doing is playing hindsight general manager. Do you even like baseball or you just want to manage something?
Cosmo2
No free agents to spend money on? There are ALWAYS free agents to spend money on. You just gotta find the right ones (not always the obvious choices). Plus you’d use the money to extend deGrom, Nimmo, Alonso etc. There’s always assets out there to grab if you know what you’re doing. I love baseball. I love putting myself in the position of GM or whatever and seeing what I could do. I don’t like the restrictions Lindor’s contract puts on flexibility. Yes, the contract has already been signed, but I don’t think it was worth it. It’s poor allocation only to be made good if Lindor provides commensurate value. Again, I don’t get why that so hard to understand/accept that you need to question my enjoyment of the sport.
hiflew
We can just agree to disagree on the main point. I do feel the need to apologize for questioning your fandom. I never should have brought that up and I am sorry.
Although you should equally accept my belief of not caring at all about salary without implying that I can’t or won’t understand why others do. I don’t care if Lindor or any other player makes $35MM a year or they make $14 an hour. As long as they show themselves to be a good player, I don’t care about the rest.
Oxford Karma
Holding the spot for naylor? Cleveland always seems to develop pitching, but they always have 3-4 fourth outfielder types.
tribepride17
Agreed, both Naylor’s are worthless.
cleump1953
I disagree about your post on Josh Naylor, but I would move him to first base, and keep him out of the outfield
dkcsmc1991
I like Bradley at first
Polish Hammer
Sure if you don’t mind a guy that strikes out twice a night and hits in the low .200s.
MrMet62
The poll should have had a fourth option: play him at 2nd base. (My vote)
Col_chestbridge
The big issue is that he consistently lacks range going to his left. At second base, that’s kind of a deal breaker.
Doesn’t have the range for middle infield. Doesn’t have the arm for 3rd
Doesn’t hit well enough to be RF/LF/1B/DH
Cosmo2
That’s Rosario’s problem in a nutshell.
padam
As a Mets fan watching him come up through the minors, his reputation was a solid defensive shortstop who had the potential to possibly find some power in his bat. While he’s probably met some of those hopes offensively, kind of surprised his defense went to hell. He was good when he was first called up.
Cosmo2
They way mis-scouted his D.
BasedBall
The problem with trading him is all the SS that will be on the free agent market this winter.
That makes it a little harder to get max value for him.
Cosmo2
It’ll hurt his value a bit perhaps but I think the point of all of this is that his future isn’t at SS. He can’t really handle the position.
andremets
A bigger issue is that Rosario is already Arb eligible.
gson
Disagree with this…
The free agent mega deal market for the Correa’s, Seager’s, Story’s and Baez’s and.. and.. and.. Semien.. are going to require HUGE PAYOUT$$$… Amed isn’t going to be nearly as expensive.. costing very low 7 figures and a prospect/young ML player or two.. This is the wheel house of most GM’s.. and will benefit both teams.. just not exactly at the same time..
Rsox
Rosario has been more productive at the plate than Lindor has this season. With the glut of SS on the free agent market this winter there may not be a lot of interest in Rosario. However, it may not be the worst thing for Cleveland to let him play SS another year and let Gimenez play 2B, keeping both in the lineup.
Polish Hammer
There would be plenty of interest from the teams not willing to get into a bidding war on a free agent.
Rsox
Would there though?
A look at the position say outside of playing musical chairs with the teams they came from there isn’t a lot of wiggle room. A look around the possible SS in 2022:
Bal: Jorge Mateo, Ramon Urias, Richie Martin
Bos: Xander Bogaerts
NYY: Gleyber Torres
TB: Wander Franco
Tor: Bo Bichette
CWS: Tim Anderson
Cle: Amed Rosario, Andres Gimenez
KC: Nicky Lopez, Bobby Witt Jr.
Oak: Elvis Andrus
Sea: J.P. Crawford
Tx: Isaiah Kiner-Falefa
Atl: Dansby Swanson
Mia: Jazz Chisholm
NYM: Francisco Lindor
Phi: Didi Gregorious
Cubs:Nico Hoerner
Mil: Willy Adames
Pit: Kevin Newman, Hoy Jun Park, Cole Tucker
Stl: Paul DeJong, Edmundo Sosa
Az: Nick Ahmed
Col: Brendan Rodgers
LAD: Tre Turner
SD: Fernando Tatis Jr., Jake Cronenworth
SF: Brandon Crawford
That leaves about 6 teams to play musical chairs with Correa/Seager/Baez/Story/Simmons/Semien/Iglesias/Galvis.
Some teams may look to upgrade over what they have but there seems to be more players than jobs in the middle Infield the last few years
angt222
Trade chip might be Andres Giménez.
jim stem
Reds still need a shortstop. I don’t envision them spending big on a free agent.
hiflew
Have you seen Kyle Farmer play at all? The Reds might not have a big name at shortstop, but they have a better player at short than many teams.
lady1959
Lol a poll on Rosario? Man gotta be desperate for articles.
dkcsmc1991
Could always use relievers. Other than Clase the bullpen is not good at all. Too many losses because the bullpen sucks.
Polish Hammer
Which outside of a closer is by far the hardest position to predict until you’re already halfway into the season.
Polish Hammer
Liking what I’m seeing out if Zimmer lately and hoping his power stays up and he takes control of one of the corner OF spots. He showed such promise and then got sidetracked with injuries.