Aug. 20: Both Molina and the team are encouraged by the recent talks, per Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, who adds that they’re making progress toward a deal.
Aug. 19: The Cardinals and catcher Yadier Molina are in talks on a one-year extension that would cover the 2022 season, per Katie Woo and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (Twitter link). Molina is earning $9MM on his current one-year contract and is eyeing a guarantee of at least that same amount for next season.
Molina has spoken in the past of playing through his age-40 season, which would be the 2022 campaign. Re-signing him for the 2022 campaign would allow the Cards to use Molina and Andrew Knizner as bridges to catching prospect Ivan Herrera, who’s playing in Double-A as a 21-year-old this season.
Of course, a Molina extension would mean another year of rather sparse usage for the 26-year-old Knizner, who was a fairly well-regarded prospect himself but hasn’t had much of a look in the big leagues thanks to Molina’s heavy workload. Knizner is hitting .177/.295/.257 in 132 plate appearances this year and has just 207 total plate appearances since debuting in 2019.
The 39-year-old Molina, meanwhile, has racked up 353 plate appearances on the season and turned in a .256/.303/.378 batting line with eight home runs and 16 doubles, and he’s even gone 3-for-3 in stolen-base attempts — his first steals since the 2019 campaign. It’s a far cry from his peak production back in 2012, when he turned in an outstanding .315/.373/.501 slash and a career-high 22 home runs in 563 plate appearances, but this year’s production is more or less in line with Molina’s output in 2019-20. Molina’s 86 wRC+ indicates he’s been about 14 percent worse than a league-average hitter over that period of two-plus seasons, but his production is about in line with that of an average Major League catcher.
As usual, Molina has drawn standout marks for his defensive work this season. His 43 percent caught-stealing rate is 17 percent better than the 26 percent league average, and Defensive Runs Saved values him at plus-5 overall. Statcast and FanGraphs feel his framing work has dipped below average, but Molina rates about average in that category over at Baseball Prospectus and has a long track record of excellence in that regard.
Moreover, the Cardinals would surely value Molina’s influence over what can only be a younger pitching staff in 2022. The Cards have relied on a cast of mid- or late-30s starters this summer, due in part to injuries, but next year’s rotation ought to include Jack Flaherty, a returning Dakota Hudson (who’s been out all year after Tommy John surgery) and perhaps touted young arms like Matthew Liberatore and Zack Thompson. Molina’s experience and general receiving skills would be an obvious bonus to any collection of young arms.
From a payroll vantage point, a contract worth $9MM-plus for Molina shouldn’t hamper the Cards’ ability to add this offseason. They currently have about $90MM in guaranteed contracts on the books, which is nearly $80MM shy of their current payroll. That mark doesn’t include forthcoming arbitration raises for Jack Flaherty, Harrison Bader, Alex Reyes, Jordan Hicks, Giovanny Gallegos, Tyler O’Neill or the aforementioned Hudson, but even with those salary boosts the Cardinals will have tens of million in separation from their current payroll level.
It stands to reason that if the Cardinals are serious about hammering out another one-year deal with one franchise cornerstone, they’ll look to do so with the other franchise icon currently on the roster: Adam Wainwright. The 39-year-old right-hander is in the midst of a brilliant season and seemingly showing no signs of slowing down. If he wants to continue his career beyond the current season, the front office will surely explore the possibility of keeping him a lifelong Cardinal.
Offer him 5 million take it or leave it.
with their catcher problems after he leaves he deserves more then 5 million
Catcher problems?
@true the one guys in double A and the other one is hitting .170. I’d say “catcher problems” is fair in that they don’t have an immediate replacement. If the Braves are paying 8 mil for someone injury prone, I’d say 9 mil is more than fair
Let’s go give an extension to Yadi and then let’s work with an extension for Wainwright of a year contract for next season for both.
They’re should resign Vince Colman and willie McGee
I discussed an extension with my doctor & he told me to forego it because it was a lengthy process.
Jose Oquendo can still pick it at 2B
What is your Drs. name?
Dr. Bigguns
I used to love watching Willie McGee play! Maybe it was that Everymans game complex because him and I always had similar physical frames. What could’ve been!
no way Coleman and McGee don’t have enough seasoning.
My bad, Dr. Bigguns was my wife’s dr., Dr. Richard Long was mine
Most overrated player in baseball
Nope
Bellinger
Molina is incredibly valuable considering the state of current MLB catching
As a Reds fan, I hope Molina plays till he’s 50. His OPS+ has been in the 80s for 3 straight years.
I don’t know where I heard this but many stat analysis compare him to Jim Sundberg. (Stats are always right.)
Lol no
Point him to the door and move on to the future.
Point him to the HOF & then point your thumb ………..well, you know where. I’m glad you don’t work for the STL FO.
I suppose you want Wainwright out also? SMH
That’s nice. I guess if you want to keep seeing other teams dominate the Cards and advance deep into the playoffs, then keep bringing back an aging, regressing catcher. The FO thinks it makes the fans happy, and it might for some. But in case you haven’t noticed, the stadium is not even close to full, and the players are noticing. What this team needs to worry about is Arenado opting out. Not sure what he sees here to make him stay? And long as Harrison Bourjos is here, the stadium better stock up on mustard to cover that hot dog.
Molina & Wainwright essential in last nights 3-0 win. Folks who are ragging on Molina need to put a gag in their loud mouths..
5 mil would be perfect
That might be a little too cheap! Offer him the same amount ! He is a legend and still plays good defense!
5 million also isn’t going to get it done
Is it because of that “passed ball” last night? Might want to wait a day or two to announce the signing.
This is all sarcasm!
No matter how much his production “falls off”, I will be glad to see him retire.
molina doesn’t go side to side anymore. just tries to glove it. why?
I can’t speak for Molina, but being 39 myself, I can tell you that my knees and my back aren’t the same as they were. And as a former catcher who was good at blocking balls in the dirt, getting to the sides and such, I also would not be as prolific as I once was
Yea! he plays 3b on my “2021 All Older Than Me Team.” Yeah, seriously, he played 1 inning at 3b in 2019.
Good luck man. My entire All Older than Me team left with Bartolo Colon.
I have been a long time fan of Molina, and….his ego is too big to only take a 5MM contract. He’ll be looking for $10+
Does he deserve a raise? His OPS+ is only 89, but that is higher than 2020. He also was on the All Star Game this year.
Baseball Reference gives him 1.4 WAR, so he might finish with close to 2 WAR. So, he can make a good argument that $10mm makes more sense than $5mm.
He does have an ego, and is pretty whiney, which is why I don’t necessarily like him, though I respect his ability. But I think he’d settle for $9 to stay in St. Louis. Anywhere else would be 10+. But NOWHERE is getting him for 5 mil lol
It’s nice to see a player spend his whole career with one team. This dude will be in the hall of fame five years after he quits playing. I hope he stays in St. Louis.
Who besides Molina (among current players) has been with the same team for at least ten years? There can’t be more than a handful.
Kyle Seager has spent the entirety of his 10 year career with the Mariners.
Actually, more than you might think. Strasburg, Kershaw, Freeman, Posey, Zimmerman, Wainwright, Miggy, are all guys I can think of just off the top of my head.
Altuve
Might played for the Marlins early in his career
Votto
Which Miggy are you referring to?
brett gardner
Votto, Kershaw, Zimmerman, posey, Crawford, belt, sal Perez, Matt carpenter, wainwright, Brett Gardner,
Stephen Strasburg, Miguel Cabrera, Jose Altuve, Charlie Blackmon, Kenley Jansen
Cabrera played with Marlins first
The question was about players being with the same team the last 10+ years, not necessarily their whole careers, so Miggy qualifies.
Has Carpenter hit 10 years yet? I know he came up mid-season in 2011, but I don’t know exactly when.
Not yet for Carp, but he will just before the season ends.
His production confirms they ought to ensure that does not happen.
He will get to 10 years, but his option for 2022 absolutely will be bought out. If he returns to the Cardinals next year – not that I think he should – it will be on a very inexpensive contract.
Carpenter should have been here 7 years, but we got stuck with 10.
After MLB’s first public CBA offer i imagine several players may want to talk extensions
Waino should be a higher priority for St. Louis. He has been spectacular this season for his age. Re-sign Waino first and then deal with Yadi. It’s not smart to pay for past performance but Yadi might be one of the few exceptions to that rule. He’s worth $8-$9M to St. Louis and only St. Louis. If they don’t sign him, he’ll struggle to find a 1 year deal at $6M or more.
Wainwright will likely be next. I don’t see him pitching anywhere else at this point
I thought I read somewhere Waino was ready to spend more time with family next year. This was a planned “last year”. Maybe I’m wrong.
He said earlier this year in an interview with Ken Rosenthal that he doesn’t see himself playing beyond next year (2022). Could retire after this season or play one more. And would only play for the Cardinals.
Well said, D Mantooth.
Molina has already stated his desire to play again next year. Wainwright is waiting until the end of the season to make a family decision whether or not to come back. If he says he’s coming back they will deal with his contract then.
He’s a tad below total league average offensively, but up there when you’re talking catchers, Defense is more than adequate. Fans love him, Cards have a lot of money.
No brainer; 10M with a few incentives.
shocker
2 for $10MM. Second year of deal as backup or opportunity to bow out. He’s done well for his age as a primary catcher. He might have 2 extra years as a backup
Lol give him and wainwright big money please!! They deserve it
Knizner, the heir apparent, turns out not to be the heir apparent. Herrera is just another catching prospect the Cardinals are counting on, but he is no different than Knizner at this point of his career. Knizner was a can’t miss prospect who missed. Molina isn’t what he used to be, but he still does a good. I’d say give him another year and the job is his to lose. He has zero competition from inside the organization.
With 207 PA over last 3 years can’t really say it’s a miss never has gotten a real shot and consistent playing time either. Hitting a baseball isnt easy only playing once or twice a week. As long as Yadi is there will never be competition it’s his job until he doesn’t want it anymore
True, it is a small sample size. But a true prospect should be able to, at the very least, hit his weight or offer some kind of challenge to Molina. Knizner hasn’t shown any positive signs at the MLB level, offensively or defensively. He is nothing more than a sub. Sign Molina, back him up with Knizner and then hope this Herrera kid has something to offer soon and Knizner can then back him up.
I love when good players are with one team their whole career. Happens so rarely now.
Most over rated catcher. Never had offensive numbers. But he’s symbolic to mlb and the cards
Never? You sure about that?
@dodgers_2021 – you’re overlooking a few strong offensive seasons.
Been long enough ago that they are not worth even mentioning. Nostalgia Train keeps right on running. Not even an average defensive catcher now in terms of the glove. All we hear about are the couple of runners he throws out. Not enough to warrant another contract. Cut bait.
You can’t just remove the arm from a defensive analysis. As the article says, Molina is still overall a significantly better than average defensive catcher.
Well said, D Mantooth.
Then how did he have 3 consecutive .800+ OPS and 120+ OPS+ seasons from 2011-13?
8-10 years ago…. no longer relevant.
It is when it contradicts the initial claim of “never.”
Honestly, with Milwaukee having a monster of a rotation controlled through 2024 stl, basically, has a zero % chance at winning the division. Stl should commit to a rebuild (trade flaherty) or, I guess, push for the wildcard every year…
Ha!! No way. Stl has pieces they can use to build on and enough money to supplement from outside.
You never know quickly good pitching can dry up, anyway. Out of Milwaukee’s 3-headed monster, one or more of them could be having a career year that will never be repeated, or they could just get hurt.
You’re correct…Much like Mikolas, Hicks, Hudson etc.
Right. And the Cubs we’re going to be a dynasty . . .
Next year is likely going to be a race between the Brewers and cardinals, so I don’t think they should rebuild
It’s August, Redbirds are 4 games out of the WC and Yadi is instructing his agent to get a deal locked in for next season as a top priority. Yadi, all about Yadi. The organization shouldn’t even think about discussing 2022 K’s for the senior citizens on the roster until the offseason after organizational meetings are completed and they know their path forward and the health status of the geriatrics going into 2022. If his cane slips and he breaks his hip in the next few months it might be moot.
Dumb
Correct. Has been all about Molina since before that 3 year, $60M contract before the last two year contract. Where they threatened Molina would leave and STL bid against itself. Right then, knew it was all about Molina and not STL.
Man, Molina has really got in your head!
the fact that the cards have tens of millions in payroll space means nothing. they’ll resign Yadi and Waino and a couple of Mo’s “low hanging fruit” type of players they love so much and call it done saying they expect everyone to bounce back/progress next season and be fine with being also rans that pocket millions of profits for the ownership group.
Unfortunately, you’re probably correct in your prediction.
When the Cardinals have payroll space, they generally tend to use it, such as signing Jhonny Peralta and Dexter Fowler to fairly large free agent deals, giving out large extensions to guys like Mikolas and Goldschmidt, and taking on a lot of future payroll in the Arenado trade (assuming he doesn’t opt out).
They just had to cut payroll last offseason after losing so much revenue in the pandemic.
Mitch, you are absolutely correct. This was confirmed at the trade deadline. The additions essentially were an attempt to dupe the fan base into thinking they were trying. I attended a game in KC where Lester was the starting pitcher and Carp was in the lineup in the 5-hole. The Cards won that game because of Goldy, Arenado, and the fact that it was the Royals. But, you can’t run that lineup out there and then try to convince us that we’re close to really contending.
Yadi has to cut down on his playing time and allow Knizner a chance to stop rotting on the bench. So yeah resign Yadi, but he has to sit once every series starting now, and agree 2022 is the end
Molina should have been sitting 50%+ of the time in 2021 and Knizner playing the rest. STL not able to get that right when Carson Kelly was there and now Knizner.
Not while the Cardinals are contending and Molina is still far and away the better player, they shouldn’t. Save the experimenting with unproven rookies for the rebuilding teams.
a new manager, front office and a hitting coach should be a priority in st louis
the next Julio Franco
This is like a 30 year old child continuing to live rent free at his parent’s house. I think the term is, “cut the cord.”
I think the term is “future HOF-er” that has as big of a following from his haters as he does from the people that actually know baseball and what a rarity he is.
How is he a “rarity?”
He’s a hall of famer. That in and of itself is a rarity. Now add in the fact that he’s a catcher still playing at full-time at a slightly above average pace in his 18th year and that it all came with the same team. It’s really not that difficult of a question to answer.
He is? When was he inducted? He’s padding stats for the last three years and counting. There are numerous catchers with higher WAR than him, in fewer than 18 years like him, that are NOT in the HOF. Munson and recently deceased Freehan just to name two. So quit saying he’s a HOF until it happens. If it happens. That is all.
I wonder why my posts answering “Mkeyankee” have disappeared, in fact the whole conversation disappeared. I don’t recall there being anything offensive said by either of us
That guy Joel Peterson with the huge persecution complex seems to have disappeared too.
Don’t do it you will regret it he will be hurt and suck you dry for the coming years he will be 40yrs old step aside and make room.
It’s a one year deal man. It’s low commitment and not even an outrageous cost in the baseball world
One can only assume that Ted Simmons is not available.
Do not insult the smartest person in baseball SIMBA! BTW nice thread! You guys have a nice weekend… See you soon, since we play the Cardinals all the time till the end of the season!
I assumed there would be some team that would overpay on a 1 or 2 year deal for him, $9M seems pretty cheap for a guy like him. But apparently not if they are talking extensions with STL. Assume his people have asked around about his FA stock and are disappointed in the numbers. Not a lot of appetite for 40yo catchers.