If there was any doubt after yesterday’s one-year contract extension, Cardinals catcher Yadier Molina confirmed in a press conference today that he plans to retire after the 2022 season. “Yes, yes it will be my final season,” Molina plainly stated (Twitter link via Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch).
That was the expectation the moment the deal was finalized, as president of baseball operations John Mozeliak even called the 2022 campaign Molina’s final season in the team’s press release announcing the extension. Still, it’s notable to hear the player himself publicly confirm as much.
Molina, 39, is well past his peak production but is still delivering offense that falls roughly in line with that of a league-average catcher. He’s batting .259/.304/.375 with eight homers and 16 doubles so far in 2021, walking at a 5.7 percent clip and still striking out at a 15.7 percent rate that is well south of the league average. His 43 percent caught-stealing rate behind the dish is among the best in the game.
It was strange this past offseason to consider the possibility of Molina playing somewhere other than St. Louis, but he reached the free-agent market for the first time in his illustrious career and unsurprisingly drew interest from several clubs. He’ll avoid any speculation of playing for a new club this time around, cementing himself as a lifelong Cardinal with the extension and today’s announcement.
Notably, as Cardinals fans now turn their attention to Adam Wainwright, Molina touched on the subject of his longtime teammate’s future (Twitter link via Zachary Silver of MLB.com). Molina noted that Wainwright lobbied heavily for him to return to St. Louis last offseason. “Now, it’s my turn,” Molina said in reference to Wainwright, adding that he’d “love to finish my career with him.”
Wainwright is also playing the 2021 season on a one-year contract, and he’s said in the past that he’ll need to discuss the matter with his family before determining whether he’ll continue his own career into the 2022 campaign. Through 162 2/3 innings, Wainwright has a 3.10 ERA, three complete games and a shutout. He’ll turn 40 next Monday.
And no one cared…
Except the child that made an account to post “no one cared.”
But the whole point is to get attention. So congrats.
Thank you for caring enough to reply and get yourself some attention too. Do you like it ?
I cared just enough to point out the irony of your statement and actions.
Come on, the schools have been closed for a year and COVID decline/slide (whatever folk want to call it) is a real thing among the kids but seriously.
Time to back to real world logic and using those critical thinking skills.
Wait why are you using covid as a defense to your statement? I do not see the connection between that and your post. So you are not in school and posting here instead to my comment..
Look at this kid try to reach.
Love wrecking trolls.
Am I the wrecking troll ? I think the only thing that has been wrecked is your time by replying to my comment and starting an argumentative conversation with me. But you made it clear you had an abundance of it due to covid. So keep going!!
Yeah, 700K dead here. 4M worldwide. It’s all a conspiracy. Sheesh. Solid reasoning. And you say you’re a parent….
Notice how the child upvotes himself. Amusing.
i dont think people dying is a concern of those trying to establish a NWO
QAnon in the house…
Tell us some stories Q has about baseball. why dont ya..
Better yet STFU & go play in traffic with a blind fold on..
You just did…
Maybe the dumbest comment on a site that has no shortage of dumb comments.
Wow brutal. But I don’t believe in God.
About you as a kid
I had a great childhood thank you though !
@taco, what a DB thing to say. I care. My son, a junior in high school (and a very good catcher) cares a ton. He loves Yadi. Lots of people care. I went to grad-school in STL and that entire half of the state cares. Crawl back into your troll cave please.
Sorry to hear that about your son.
So he’s a future wife beater? Yikes. Time for him to pick a better role model and you sounds like a bad parent for allowing him to look up to a bad role model.
This whole childish bantering back and forth is exactly why they choose to close the comment section on several articles they post on this site.
About you? Sorry to hear that. But not a surprise.
They really should just close the comment section on the websites.
Sure. What we all need is more isolation and time spent in our tiny little echo chambers. It’s good practice to learn and avoid comments and attitudes that you don’t want in your life. Internet comment sections are good practice for real life in that regard, if you allow them to be.
All the posts responding to you and the posts after you prove you’re wrong. People care.
I cared @tacoshells
He’s probably the greatest defensive catcher of all time, what are you talking about?
You must be 100 years old and watching baseball since the 1930s to make a comment like this. Totally subjective.
Uhh no. Of his generation yes of all time no.
Good to see. It also gives the Cardinals a year to figure out who takes over behind the plate. The next guy most likely won’t be sticking around for 19 seasons!
I thought STL had a rising catching prospect in the minors-but it’s been awhile since I perused the MLB prospect list.
Ivan Herrera. Only 21. Moved up to Double-A during the season.
Yep, him and then 2 other more defensively oriented catchers in Sanchez and Rodriguez.
Thank God
I like watching players hang on forever. But I also want young players to have a chance.
Molina might reconsider if he has a productive 2022. I think I remember Barry Larkin reconsider retirement after a decent age 40 season.
I wanted Kenny Lofton, Jeff Kent, Jim Edmonds, and Gary Sheffield to continue playing. They were still productive players and it would have enhanced their Hall of Fame cases. Edmonds could have reached 2000 hits, and Lofton and Kent could have surpassed 2500 hits. And 400 home runs for Jim Edmonds. Maybe they were in physical pain. It just seems obvious that one more year would have made them more likely to be in Cooperstown. That might seem silly, but that’s the way it is, and everybody knows it.
That can go both ways, if they can’t perform at a high level anymore they can bring down their career averages more than the benefit that their counting stats might see.
Sure, but I think that all 4 of those players had enough at bats in their career, that even an absolute clunker of a final season would not have significantly brought down their career rates stats.
And all 4 were really close to milestones (2500 hits and/or 400 homers). Jim Edmonds retired 51 hits shy of 2000 and 7 homer shy of 400. Traditionally, 3000 hits and 500 homers are the benchmarks. If Edmonds is just shy of both numbers, I don’t know how much I should care about his HOF case, since it doesn’t seem as if he cared too much.
i dont think hanging on too long hurts one’s HOF chances. a lot of metrics prefer looking at a player’s peak and how good and long it was. some guys get in off less production in a year but more sustained over time, (like a Jack Morris or even Harold Baines) but mostly its about the player’s best years.
Worth mentioning that steroid suspicion hurt their chances as much a lack of cumulative statistics.
Loft on wanted to play, but he no longer seemed welcome. Bounced around a lot lost his Cleveland years. Always wondered if he was not popular with teammates.
The guy who should have pitched for a couple more years to cement a HOF case was Billy Wagner. Still pitching at an elite level when he called it quits.
Yeah, I don’t know the full story on Lofton, not that anyone besides Kenny Lofton does know the whole story.
I agree that Billy Wagner really hurt his case by retiring. He was pitching at an elite level when he retired. He had a real chance at 500 saves. He said that he had family issues to work out and something along the lines of, “Where I come from, we prioritize family.” Well, sure, I cannot argue with that, but his 903 career innings is 139 innings fewer than Bruce Sutter, the HOF pitcher with the fewest career innings (1042).
Even though he made it in Mussina was in good form when he retired.
I Know Joe Torre when he managed the Yankees didn’t get along with him through Torres’ book.
Lofton claims to have been black balled in free agency after the 2007 season but there has never been any public evidence to support the claim. It could just be that at 40 years old and playing for 9 teams in his last 6 seasons there was no real interest. We don’t know if he was offered any minor league contracts or just didn’t get an offer to his liking
I agree with both points on Lofton and Wagner. I thought Wagner was going to be a sure fire HOFer before he walked away. I don’t know what happened with Kenny, I know he got into a fight with Sosa in the Cubs clubhouse after a loss in 03 but Sammy wasn’t known as a great teammate (from what I’ve heard) so I don’t think that was on Lofton. In my opinion, the game needs lead off hitters like Lofton and Juan Pierre, among others.
it’s absurd to me that neither Lofton and Wagner are in the Hall.
What did Lofton do to deserve HOF induction? Please give me your reasons for induction. Please use stats and facts, not opinions.
Lofton was a great speed ob guy. At the very very minimum he deserved a long run on the ballot. I rather he get in then baines or Morris.
Harold Baines is the most undeserving HOF player.
Whooooaaaa! I get your bias against the new metrics or whatever, but there are at least a dozen players enshrined in Cooperstown who were less deserving than Baines. Rabbit Maranville, Eppa Rixey, Bobby Wallace, Dave Bancroft, etc to name a few
There are some good videos on YouTube addressing this. Often times guys made it because their buddies were voting.
Lofton definitely had a case. It was ridiculous that he fell off the first year.
I can see Lofton being voted in by the “Todays Game” committee one day
hey Danieldanny…
You understand that Rabbit Maranville played in an era where 4-5 homers might led the team.
He was MVP material for several years and one of the highly regarded players during early baseball.
Seriously you cannot look at stats in comparison from 1900s to 1970/80s
Why Lofton? Nobody has said why he belongs? No SS. One top 10 MVP season. No batting titles. A low 6 AS games. No WS titles. He played a long time, with 11 different teams. He was fast and stole bases.
A) He stole a lot of bases. led league 6 times in a row.
B) He has 68 bWAR
C) 4 gold gloves in center field
D) 6x All Star, which you say is low, but 6/15 real seasons is good.
E) famous and popular.
If he didn’t go to college and play both basketball and baseball, he would have debuted earlier and had had a longer and better career. My main point in the conversation is that I was rooting for him to continue playing. His final season was still productive and he would have easily surpassed 2500 hits. It might sound silly, but that matters.
I said he had a case. Nearly 70 Bref WAR with an almost .300 BA and almost 2500 hits. He was a great player during his prime you could say for an 9 year stretch from 92-00 he was a no brainer all star every year. You’re right that his career was low on accolades and I’m not saying he should have been elected, but it’s pretty ridiculous for him to drop off after one ballot, in my opinion and in the opinion of people with way more clout than I, jay jaffe in particular lobbied for him pretty hard back during his year on the ballot iirc
Yeah, we are on the same page here. I was responding to DisjointedTeam. This website is kind of weird about informing people about when someone responded.
Lofton was a throwback to a time where stealing bases and getting on base mattered during a time when everyone was juicing and mashing Home Runs at record paces. Certainly 600+ steals warrants a plaque in Cooperstown because its highly unlikely anyone gets close to that anytime soon
“Certainly 600+ steals warrants a plaque in Cooperstown because its highly unlikely anyone gets close to that anytime soon”
You might be right that we won’t see 600 steals any time soon, or ever. It seems that instant replay and sambermetrics has killed the SB, or at least one person racking up gaudy totals.
But no, 600 steals by itself is not Cooperstown worthy. It certainly augments Lofton’s case, but doesn’t make it. Vince Coleman has over 100 more and nobody thinks he deserves the HOF. Lou Brock has 3000 hits and over 900 steals and some people think he doesn’t belong either. Juan Pierre has 614 steals, came up after Lofton, and nobody thinks he deserves the HOF.
Always look up the stats for Lloyd Waner before ever arguing that anyone else is the most undeserving Hall of Famer.
The guy had less than 30 career WAR (either B-R or FG), a career 99 wRC+, played below average defense, didn’t steal many bases, and is the only player inducted as a position player in the Hall of Fame who played after the dead ball era with fewer career home runs than Ozzie Smith with just 27 of them (The Wizard had 28)!
Edmonds is never getting in the HOF. Molina will wait too. This first ballot crap for him is asinine.
Totally. Molina’s case is pretty marginal in my opinion. 55 fWAR and only 42 bWAR in 18 seasons. Basically he had a two year great window and the rest has been about average. That’s right at the maybe yes maybe no point.
His argument is 100% based on catcher defense, and that’s one of the last remaining “eye-of-the-beholder” skills in baseball (along with manager impact). I think there will be a lot of disagreement and he may struggle to get the votes. I personally would not vote yes, although I also don’t give a crap who’s in the Hall.
I’d say WAR is not a particularly strong stat when rating catchers. It’s a stat that doesn’t capture the contributions of the position, which is different than any other position in the field. Look at it this way. It’s regarded as perhaps the most important and difficult position on the field, yet in the approximate 150 years of MLB history, only 13 catchers have been enshrined. There’s no strong argument for keeping Molina out.
When combining offensive and defensive value, Molina had more than just 2 great years. Even before he hit his offensive peak, he was a perennial All-Star.
i don’t think it’s that asinine—-he’s pretty much been the catcher of his looonnggg era. Kind of depends who else retires next year. Pujols? And how the ballot falls with the ones rising.
Hardest thing for me about Yadi is bringing my son to the game and have him see Yadi not EVEN TRY to run to first base on any infield ground ball under any circumstance.
And, of course, the 15,168 players better than Harold Baines are all hall worthy as well.
Well Buster Posey might have something to say about that “catcher of the era” comment. They don’t completely overlap, but both seem likely to play again next year and I’d bet on Posey producing a much more valuable season. I don’t hear anyone talking about Posey as first ballot worthy in fact I’ve heard more about him missing out entirely. Not that I agree with that, I think Posey is a no doubt HoF especially after his strong comeback campaign this year.
Posey should be in before Molina. No doubt.
Probably not, as Molina has a big advantage in being the one who will retire first, although I doubt either of them will get in on the first ballot.. Molina and Posey will be both be there eventually, though.
there are only two 1st ballot C in baseball history, and Pudge barely was. is Yadi even in the top half of HoF catchers? he’d be #20 in total in the Hall.
Kenny Lofton should be a HoFer anyways regardless of that (especially compared to CFs). What’s most amazing is that he fell off after one ballot. Sheffield has some level of push back because of his connections to PEDs, which I believe is not the case for the other players. It’s amazing to me that Yadier Molina is a slam dunk to such a large population and Russell Martin, Brian McCann, and Kenny Lofton were not.
hot take – AJ Pierzynski should be in the Hall
AJ was a quality hitting C – spoke his mind – Freedom of expression – its great to have even if its not agreed with
I’m with you up until Russell Martin
Thurman Munson accumulated more WAR than Molina, and he died at age 32. He also had awards he won, like MVP and ROY.
Is there another generation of Molinitos out there we should start worrying about? I mean Bengie’s gotta be pushing 50
THANK YOU! Is Mozeliak next?
Nope, all you arm chair GM’s in STL will just have to deal with it..
I expect Pujols to sign a one day contract (at the minimum) with St. Louis at the end of this year so they can play their last season together.
Well considering he’s on one of the best teams in the NL and they aren’t going to release him, that’s not going to happen…
Didnt he turn his back on them for money?
No, Pujols didn’t turn his back on the Cardinals because they didn’t want to sign him to a long term deal. They never intended to sign him and trailed the negotiations every inch of the way.
They never made him an offer they thought he’d accept. Smart move by the Cardinals. And by the way, Pujols was offered more money by the Marlins than the Angels. The Angels offered him a no-trade contact.
As far as Pujols being a DH. Sure, but he can only hit LH pitching, plays marginal defense and can’t run a lick. He may find a spot, but he’s barely useful.
Pujols has been useful to the Dodgers. His defense has been fine. He’s obviously happy and his teammates love him. The Dodgers are a playoff team who use him properly (in a non-DH league). The Angels are an also-ran that didn’t. A tale of two franchises.
His defense is adequate. Marginal is a good word to use. It won’t help you, but it won’t hurt you either. And he still hits LH pitching reasonably well. He’s a very limited player.. if someone want a week side of the platoon DH, he may find a place.
The Angels had nowhere to play him, as he was blocked from the only 2 things he can do (Walsh, Ohtani)….the Dodgers don’t really use him much either, but he gets to PH most games, with a few games in the field thrown in to keep him happy, I guess
Sour grapes. He is doing great for the Dodgers.
I just want to know how much more famous the guy has to get to show up ahead of the grocery store Albertson’s when I type Alber into Google
Pujols wasn’t blocked in Anaheim considering that they could’ve just played Walsh full time in RF. Pujols was still a better hitter than all the terrible outfielders save for Walsh that the Angels ran out after Fowler went down, especially since Trout and Upton eventually got hurt as well.
The Cardinals made Pujols a perfectly good offer considering that they were going to be paying him until his late ’30’s that would’ve been accepted most of the time. It’s just that two other teams were stupid enough to offer ridiculous overpays, especially with the Angels making the boneheaded move to actually backload their deal.
@cey hey I think people forget that pujols is a + defender just his heal and other nagging injuries that just don’t go away in your 35+ age like they did when your in your 20’s. Lad has used #5 correctly IMO, at this point in his career he is a bench guy that can give you great production if used in a limited role. I feel that a lot of mlb fans forget that your bench guys are just as important as your everyday guys.
“End of the year”
Yup I bet Pujols will go back too if the NL gets to use a DH next season. Would be cool to see
Albert Pujols isn’t a “washed up” player because of his defense…
Yeah, but his terrible speed can be tolerated considering that he’s still a decent bench or part-time bat, especially against lefties.
Wainwright’s amazing. He might even get a Cy Young vote if he rolls the rest of the season, gets close to 200 IP with an ERA below 3. The Cards have had their share of pitching injuries, obviously, but they also got an insane dead-cat season from Wainwright. The luck stuff does tend to even out, unless you’re the Giants.
Adam Wainwright’s stats aren’t HOF, but what a really fine long-term asset. Even more as a lifer.
Since coming Up as a back up with the A’s it’s amazing the career Izzy has put
Together in St. Louis. I applaud him!
He averaged a little over 1 triple every 3 years. I guess my question is, did he play in REALLY heavy shoes? Ahahahaha!
That’s still 1 more triple than Mark McGwire ever managed to get.
Met fans everywhere: thank God!
Congrats on a great career of Met killing, Yadi
I fell like he’s been around forever. Guy is a great ball player who has been a model of consistency. He also played for only one team. That is a miracle in today’s game.
I bet a ticket to the last home game in St. Louis next season will be darn near impossible to come by. Would LOVE to be there and be one of the many showing appreciation to Yadi for being a lifelong Cardinal.
Choose middle game of garbage series like versus the Pirates, Diamondbacks, or Rockies. It’ll be cheap and the Cardinals will probably continue to stink next year will make tickets fairly easy to come by again (or at least little change).
For a team that hasn’t had a losing record since 2007 and made the play-offs as recently as the previous 2 seasons (and still has a small chance this season), you have a strange definition of “stink.”
I live in STL and the series in ‘19 when Pujols played what could have been his final game in STL, tickets were hard to come by. I expect Yadi’s final games will be the same especially if Waino comes back for one final year. That last Waino/Yadi start will sellout for sure.
Those are always nearly impossible to get.
Molina WAR/WAR7/JAWS-41.9/28.7/35.3. OPS+ 97 dWAR 26.3 2 Top 5 MVP finishes, 2 WS 8GG 9 ASG
Freehan- 44.8/33.7/39.2 OPS+112 dWAR12 2 Top 3 MVP finishes 1 WS 5GG 11ASG
Molina- Obvious HOF
Freehan- Crapped on by BBWAA for 46 years and dies of Alzheimers last week.
How does this make Molina an “obvious” HOF. If anything, it hurts his chances. If Freehan and Munson aren’t in, they why would Molina get in as an OBVIOUS?
I am relaying the panegryics from the fawning media
Molina is an okay hitter. For example, he only has a career 97 OPS+. You’re not getting in to the Hall with that number.
Tell that to Ozzie Smith and his career 87 OPS+.
Tell that to Ozzie and his 76.9 WAR
Thank god. Everyone is tired of him.. guy will make the HOF because of defense and playing a long time. Not deserved.
I think they’re more tired of you, Metsfan.
You don’t deserve to have an account here, and I’d bet most people agree with me.
Wait tell he get 3 more doubles and 17 more RBIs before you say anything. How many players, have 400 doubles in a career that only been a catcher? I know a few catchers got doubles and homers while being a DH or at 3rd or 1st, but not many while play catcher only.
Should defense not qualify one for the HoF?
The reality of baseball is we can’t really compare all positions the same way. It’s telling that if we look at the top power hitters over the last 30 years that a majority of them are outfielders or corner basemen and not middle infielders. Meanwhile we look to the middle infielders and the centerfielder to be stronger defensively. Catchers have an additional responsibility of being a field general so to speak. Per fangraphs, over the last 30 years Molina is the leader in their defensive metric of all positions.
All I’m saying is if you’re dismissing a player because you think they’re nothing but defense then you’re missing about half the game.
So Ozzie Smith didn’t deserve it either despite being a first-ballot electee?
Yo everyone just ignore metsfan22 he is either a moron or a troll, anyone that has watched bb in the last 20 years agree mo is a hof. First ballot maybe not but find me a catcher in the past 15-20 years that had a better complete game than mo. Also for the die hard saber guys out there them stats only tell part of the story even thou you believe it’s a end all be all. (Side note I don’t hate sabermatrics I think of the stat as another tool in the box, IMO I think in today’s age we forget that this isn’t mlb the show and the guys on the field are people not computers)
He must really bring a lot of fans to the stands
Look in the stands on a Cardinals broadcast, Molina gear everywhere!
I see a lot of empty seats.
That’s the case everywhere with the country still recovering from the pandemic. The Cardinals usually draw 3M+ a year.
@lanidrac just like a lot of Midwest cities COVID hit us hard, stl is mostly a working mans town and a lot of us are trying to recover from not working a lot. Also add in even thou a lot of stadiums are opened to 100% there are still a lot of people out there still worried about COVID (if your one of them no judgment here you have your reasoning and that’s your choice) or just got back to work because of COVID.
Molina while an above average catcher does not seem to be a lock for HOF
recently playing Catchers comparison
Bench > Molina
Rodriquez > Molina
Piazza > Molina
Carter > Molina
Simmons > Molina
Fisk is an argument although way different ERA (bench was similar era and just dominated)
How many homeruns did Bench hit while he was a 3rd baseman? Or a 1st baseman?
What about Mike Piazza as a DH?
Molina have a total of 46 games at 1st base, 4 as a DH and 1 at 3rd base.
Bench has a total of 195 games at 3rd base, 145 games at 1st base, and 111 games in the outfield
Piazza has a total of 122 games as a DH and 70 games as a 1st baseman
Even Rodriguez played more DH then Molina have in any other position except of catcher.. Rodriguez play as DH a total of 57 times.
Let’s go further…
Munson vs. Molina
Posada vs. Molina
Freehan Vs. Molina
Posey vs Molina
Kendall vs Molina
Howard vs Molina
Perez vs Molina
Most of these catchers were better overall players than Molina. If Molina is a HOFer, then this list should be reconsidered.
I think Molina gets in the HOF based on his elite defense, All Star and postseason appearances, etc. He’s not first ballot, but I think the writers will vote him in. Funny that Joe Mauer has not been mentioned. I hope Mauer gets in before Yadi.
Mauer very well might make it, and Posey seems a near lock unless he surprise retires after this season. Winning an MVP as a catcher is helpful
No, they weren’t. I’d take Molina over any of them except maybe Posey.
Bench and Rodriquez, yes, but Molina is arguably better or at least equal or close to the others given how much better his defense is at the position where it matters most.
Avoiding the discussion of whether or not he deserves the HoF nod I’ll simply say it’s impressive these days to find a player to have such a long career with a single team.
Posey is better
Posey > Molina
All hail Yadi.
Maybe the best game caller ever!! Invaluable!!!
Every single pitcher, player and coach on the Tigers said the same exact things about Freehan. Smart. Great game caller. Clutch. Leader. Was out there almost everyday playing. Great defender. Winner. All this sound familiar?
Noooooooooooooo!
Yadi is 17 RBI’s away from becoming only the 14th Catcher to drive in 1000 Runs. Of the previous 13, 10 are in the Hall of Fame. Yadier would be the first one to do it without hitting at least 200 Home Runs in his career.
So what? This is exactly why longevity isn’t what smart voters look at. Doing something average for a long time does not make one a HOF.
1000 ÷ 18 years = 55 year. What a great player!!
Molina is also 3 doubles away from 400. Only 1 other catcher has 400 doubles, and Ivan Rodriguez is in the HOF…
Doubles? Really? Maybe the BFIB will make neck tattoos the next criteria for HOF.
Revolver, isn’t it great to read these comments of stats that fans use that think will strengthen his case? 400 doubles? In a 10-12 year career, that’s pretty solid. Over 18 years , it averages to 22 doubles a year. Hilarious.
22 doubles a year is really good for a position that almost never plays 140 games a year.
22 doubles is not “really good” unless you have 300 PA a year.
Just like the gambler Pete Rose. Longevity is why he broke the lifetime hits record.
Hank Aaron is in the same boat. Longevity is why he broke the lifetime home run record.
Longevity and consistency are key to great players,
And if you are using Aaron and Rose as comps to Molina with longevity, then you using horrible comps. Both were models of consistency throughout their years. And let’s see, Aaron finished with about 600 more HR than Molina and Rose over 2000 more hits. Not sure where you were going with this?
18 years in the NL staying at the most grueling position on the field and being consistent is a bad thing to you?
No, it’s not bad. But it’s not HOF worthy. I already said Molina belongs in the hall of very good. If Munson and Freehan aren’t in, then neither should he. It took Simmons 30 years to get in. He was way better offensively but not as good as Molina defensively. So why should Molina’s defense carry more weight than the best switch hitting catcher ever to play?
Because Molina has a much better defensive edge over Munson and Freehan than they have an offensive edge over him at the position where defense matters the most.
Freehan was one of the top defensive catchers in his time. A time when there were good catchers all over the league and guys with speed running the bases were a dime a dozen. Freehan is the closest comp to Molina.
@disjointed team and what playing for 15+ years is something to overlook when after 6 years unless your playing at an elite level you have some kid trying to take your job. IMO to be a hof’er you either have to be god like for a short time or pretty f’ing good for 10+ years. So yea if any player that has 10+ years of “hall of the very good” should get looked at
If you are of the mind that WAR is the end-all stat for determining a players value or HOF worthiness, you are clueless. Furthermore, if you rely entirely on stats to determine the value of a catcher, maybe baseball isn’t your sport. More than any other position, intangibles say more about a catcher than any set of stats can capture. Molina is more responsible for the Cardinals overall success in the 2000’s than anyone. And he has both prevented and thrown out more runners on a percentage basis than the over-rated and worshipped Bench.
Yadi’s 41.9 WAR includes the very intangible 26.3 dWAR. Posada > Molina, Munson > Molina, Posey > Molina, Freehan > Molina, etc., etc.
I guess you forgot about a guy named, Pujols? 2 titles with him. 0 since he left. Sometimes I wonder just how biased someone will be to try and push an agenda on another person.
Overrated Bench? That is just stupid talk. Now you really lost credibility on here. Refresher course for you. A lot of players actually stole bases in the 60s and 70s. Molina played in an era of concrete cleats.
I don’t seek or need anyone’s validation so make me laugh.
Bench is clearly a HOFer but I saw Bench play. Did you? He couldn’t hit for average to save his life despite having one of the most stacked lineups in MLB history around him. He also rarely played on bad teams and always played in a hitters park.. His defense was very good but Yadi still prevented more baserunning than he did and was involved in MORE playoffs. Put Bench on an average team and his stats take a serious hit. He was over-rated. He was never the best hitting catcher and although better defensively, wasn’t the best defensive catcher either. He was very good but not as great as people who never saw him play think he was.
Saw Bench, saw Simmons…. and a bunch of other catchers too. Simmons was better than Molina… look at their stats side by side. It will surprise you. I would take Bench over Molina also. Been watching the Cardinals and Reds since the middle 60’s. All are good catchers.
I saw Bench play. He was better than Molina. Johnny played different positions when other catchers would get a day off because Sparky wanted his bat in the lineup.
Lineup protection is a myth. If you believe in it, Bench was certainly protecting the other hitters.
He did not prevent basestealing . He played in an era devoid of basestealing.
Bench always played in a hitter’s park?? Those stadiums in the 60s and 70s were not what you see today. Most were football stadiums converted for baseball.
By the way, Bench hit 195 HR at home. 194 road.
834 OPS HOME. 801 ROAD. You have anything else on this “overrated” catcher you want to lie about to TRY and make Molina look better?
Let me get this straight. You say, “put Bench on an average team and his stats take a serious hit.” THEN you say Molina “was involved in more playoffs.” So Molina played on good teams for the most part. We know that already, but he also played in a watered down playoff era. Bench did not. What would Molina’s offensive stats look like if he played for the Pirates or Marlins the last 18 years? I wonder if people ever think about the contradictions they make in order to elevate a player?
Would’ve made more sense if he made this announcement 4-5 years ago,
He passes the eye test as a HOF IMO.
So do Munson, Freehan, and about 100 other guys at other positions. It’s the hall of fame, not the hall of the very good who was above average to elite on defense for 10 years.
Sorry, gotta do it.
More HR at catcher?? Just Berra, Fisk, Bench and Piazza
15th best defensive catcher by d War all time. Threw out 42% of runners at age 39.
WS win. 3 GGs,8 ASG,6 SSs…played 19 years. 1000RBI
Drew 1.7% of the vote and was off the ballot after 1 year.
Who am I?
275 HRs, >1000 RBI, 5 ASG, 5 SS, 4 WS.
42.7 WAR (more than Molina).
Posada
I know we are supposed to pretend it didn’t happen but I’m looking forward to the 30 for 30 on Yadier. A ball sticks to a player? How does that happen?
Well, the starting catcher for the 2022 NL All-Star Team has been decided…
Personally, I’ve never liked the tendency to vote in upcoming retiring future Hall of Famers no matter how badly they’re actually playing, but I’ll still be glad to watch Molina in the All-Star Game one last time, especially after he chose not to participate this year.
Posey and Realmuto, the catchers voted ahead of him, decided not to play either. It’s called injury. Another AS selection on Molina’s resume that he didn’t deserve.
Something weird about a player counting on a Farewell Tour.