The Cubs and White Sox swung a crosstown blockbuster, with the South Siders adding star reliever Craig Kimbrel in exchange for second baseman Nick Madrigal and right-hander Codi Heuer. Kimbrel will pair with Liam Hendriks to give the Sox a lethal one-two punch at the back end of the bullpen.
Kimbrel becomes the second reliever dealt between the crosstown rivals in as many days. The Sox also picked up Ryan Tepera from the Cubs yesterday. Obviously, adding Kimbrel is a far more impactful development, as the 32-year-old has been arguably the best reliever in baseball over the course of the season.
While the Cubs’ three-year, $43MM free agent investment in Kimbrel originally looked like a misstep, he’s completely turned the tables around in 2021. Through 36 2/3 innings across 39 appearances, the eight-time All-Star has incredibly pitched to a 0.49 ERA/1.83 SIERA. He’s among the top two relievers (minimum 30 innings pitched) in ERA (1st), SIERA (2nd- 1.83) strikeout rate (1st- 46.7%), strikeout/walk rate differential (2nd- 37.2 percentage points). Only his new teammate, Hendriks, bests him in SIERA and K% minus BB%.
The reinvigorated Kimbrel can remain in Chicago through 2022. He’s playing out the final guaranteed season of his contract on a $16MM salary (around $5.6MM of which is still owed) and is controllable next season via $16MM club option. Entering the year, it seemed likely he’d be bought out for $1MM, but that price now looks like a bargain.
Picking up the top reliever on the trade market, as one might expect, came at a hefty price. The White Sox move two players directly off the big league roster, including their starting second baseman for much of the season. Madrigal, a former top five overall pick and highly-regarded prospect, made his big league debut last season. He’s immediately stepped in and performed well, hitting .317/.358/.406 (114 wRC+) over his first 324 big league plate appearances.
Madrigal doesn’t hit for power, but he’s perhaps the game’s best contact hitter. The right-handed hitter has amazingly gone down on strikes in just 7.4% of his plate appearances. That propensity for putting nearly everything into play has led to high enough batting averages to make Madrigal an above-average offensive player despite the lack of extra-base impact. He’s also a capable defensive second baseman, so Madrigal brings value on both sides of the ball.
Unfortunately, Madrigal won’t play again this season. The 24-year-old suffered a significant right hamstring tear in early June. He underwent season-ending surgery shortly thereafter, ending what proved to be his final season with the White Sox. He’s expected to be back to full strength by Spring Training 2022 and would seemingly step in as the Cubs regular second baseman from that point on.
Madrigal didn’t accrue a full year of service time last season, so he’ll be controllable through 2026. He does seem likely to qualify for early arbitration as a Super Two player after the 2022 season, but he remains a long-term pickup for the Cubs who should solidify the middle of the infield and potentially hit near the top of the order for a few seasons.
Heuer looks likely to jump right into the big league bullpen. The hard-throwing 25-year-old has pitched in the majors for two seasons, tossing 62 1/3 combined innings of relief. Heuer has averaged a blistering 97.1 MPH on his fastball and worked to a 3.75 ERA/3.60 SIERA as a big leaguer, although he’s struggled a bit in 2021 after a fantastic rookie campaign. He’s controllable for the next four seasons, reaching arbitration by 2023.
Michael Cerami of Bleacher Nation first reported the White Sox were acquiring Kimbrel. Bob Nightengale of USA Today was first to report that Madrigal and Heuer were going to the Cubs in return.
everlastingdave
Let’s go!!!!!
Francys01
I’m shocked the last team that I thought was going to acquire Kimbrel was the WhiteSox. I thought he was going to end up with the Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Phillies or maybe Red Sox. This is why the trade deadline is so fascinating because you never what is going to happen.
LordD99
Building a killer bullpen for the late innings as they head toward the postseason.
Fred K. Burke
The White Sox pen will be as good as those KC Royal’s pen back in 2014/2015 when they had Kelvin Herrera, Wade Davis, and Greg Holland closing out games from the sixth or seventh inning. This is a good trade in my opinion. Hoping it works out favorably for both teams. Madrigal and Hoerner when healthy, should cover SS and 2nd base for the next several years
ASapsFables
With Liam Hendriks, Michael Kopech and now Craig Kimbrel all available for late inning duty the White Sox pen becomes “The Nastier Boys”. Hopefully they will have the same success in 2021 for Tony La Russa as “The Nasty Boys” had for the Lou Piniella Reds in 1990!
snakqadj
wouldn’t age well, kimbrel sucks and was good for 1/2 a year.
Tavo
Same!
ChiSox_Fan
Then u have not been reading my posts.
No surprise to me.
johnnynoitall
Nobody cares what you have to say
Emilia
I know that you have to give in order to get, but I figured Madrigal to be south sider for the long haul. He was quickly a fan favourite
Bright Side
They got Madrigal. Did they get Los Pollos Hermanos too?
neo
you want answers? better call Saul!
case
Yea, a second baseman performing at an all star level with 4 years of control seems like a steep price for Kimbrel. Gotta love them going for it after so many years of losing… but with a weak AL central now would be a good time to set up multiple years of dominance.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Nope. Slappy was kind of a butthead
everlastingdave
Sox decided to shove a little harder than I thought today. And Heuer’s leaving too? It’s a good day.
ilikesports
They’ve gotta load up to win the AL Central lol
dimitriinla
I think they’ve got bigger plans.
JohnJasoJingleHeimerSchmidt
This time, they will win TWO playoff games, instead of just the one.
Big plans ahead!
CluHaywood
They really don’t. The second place team is selling. This is for a deep October run.
RoyalsFanAmongWolves
Don’t worry, the White Sox have the AL Central won. I’m just glad the Royals only have six games left with the White Sox.
ruckus727
Let’s freaking go!
ABCD
Mad ruh gull! Mad ruh gulll! Mad ruh gull!
What will Bryant get?
ABCD
Baez to the Mets!
yankees2016rebuild
They overpaid big time but this definitely makes them a lot better.
coolhandneil
Who did?
Eatdust666
He was referring to the White Sox
coolhandneil
They got a steal. Not an overpayment.
rondon
You think the Cubs ‘overpayed’ to give their crosstown rivals the best closer in baseball? Snap out of it. This was great for the Cubs.
ChiSox_Fan
Where’s the POLL for best GM during this year’s trade deadline activity?
Rick Hahn runaway winner, I say!
nrd1138
Nope. RF not solved, and the guy they tried to plug in there, Eaton, did not pan out. One could also argue that there were far better players for Hahn to get and he settled on these guys as it did not cost them as much in return. If the Sox get destroyed in the first playoff series this season, does he still deserve the platitudes you are shelling out?
Do not get me wrong, if theses guys really pan out and the Sox make it deep into the playoffs then sure, but far too early to be heaping praise on him, Hes shooting in the dark on these trades and they may work out, but I believe there were FAR batter players that were available that Hahn could have gotten, but did not.
TradeAcuna
Kimbrel is a ticking time bomb.
GASoxFan
Not a team in baseball that doesn’t improve with Kimbrel in the pen
TradeAcuna
Gl.
Glad the Braves avoided him.
MC Tim C
Lol OK sure Ian *thumbs up*
citizen
The braves drafted and developed Kimberll. Braves have most late inning losses. They should have aquired Kimberll
neo
who?
GutsandBrains
Braves wouldn’t see him “tank” in the playoffs anyways even if they had traded for him. Though they could’ve used him seeing as how they have the most late inning losses in baseball. That sub 1 ERA could’ve made them a contender.
cadagan
Why would you reply to another team, to hate on another ex-brave? Your levels of bitterness are endless. Is there anything on this planet that gives you joy? Other than being joyless.
thatsright
He nearly cost the Red Sox a title in 18.
Glad he’s not coming back, especially at a high cost.
whyhayzee
Nothing or no one nearly cost the Red Sox in 2018. They ripped through the season and ripped through the postseason. Kimbrel was no Gagne.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Should have said that in the 2018 postseason when Sox fans were scared to put him in. He’s talented but has been very erratic in the past.
citizen
Kinda like saying Kershaw is not that good in the post. I don’t want this player on my team. Dumb.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Yup.
Well…until Phat Sancho takes him yard & he punches himself in the face. That’s certainly not helpful stuff.
letsplay2
Or a ticket to the WS.
redsoxu571
9th on the all-time saves list, career ERA+ of 197 (for reference, Mariano Rivera’s is 205). In those “shaky” Boston years, he had a 184 ERA+ with a 0.906 WHIP and 14.9 K/9. Can’t be counted on like he was to start his career, but dude is putting up arguably the second-best season of his career.
Outside of losing his control for the 2018 postseason (oh the horror!) he’s one of the five best RPs of all time. Yeah, what a time bomb bum!
junkmale
Ian’s right though. Everyone is riding high on this resurgence like it’s evergreen. And he’s never been particularly great in the postseason.
GutsandBrains
That’s why they have hendriks. Not a Sox fan but that bullpen looks to be the best in baseball.
whyhayzee
Mo blew two postseasons, 2001 and 2004. What do you want?
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Better get the cubs 3 or 4 players. Minimum
STLBirds86
Right… lol
Georgiajeff
Knowing Hoyer he will take more teenagers that will never pan out.
johnrealtime
Quite the opposite my dear boy. MLB talent. I do not hate this trade as a Cubs fan
nrd1138
Hi think Heuer has the stuff to be a closer, and this year is just a typical off year for relievers that many appear to have (every-other-year-itis), but I think Heuer can be a closer or at least setup guy. With the wind blowing out at Wrigley that should give Madrigal a few more homers, and as long as this latest injury does not show a sign of frailty where he gets hurt every season for large gaps, the he should be a good pickup as well.. The Sox did get Kimbrel, who is one of the best closers right now, and Hendriks has blown a few saves this season, so it should help the Sox, I just hope there is not going to be bruised egos with the Sox have two top closers on the club.
cwsOverhaul
No problem……Mendick, Burr, Foster and Ruiz
chitown311
Hahahahaha BillyBaggins! Keep dreaming!!! Enjoy the rebuild!!!!!!!!!
anthonyd4412
Or 1 huge prospect
Catuli Carl
Sox farm system is in tatters. No idea what we could possibly be getting of much value.
marrtho
hendriks and kimbrel is just flat out nasty. sheesh.
Orel Saxhiser
Also adding Jimenez and, soon, Robert, which is a nice deadline haul if you think about it. Robust offense, excellent rotation. They will have lots of leads to protect and have an embarrassment of riches on the back end. No danger of facing Kimbrel because they got him and the competition didn’t. That team has a real shot at winning it all. Interesting how they’ve gone to Cleveland and the Cubs for significant upgrades. It never hurts to ask.
Astros2017&22Champs
The white sox are terrific but their defense is really bad. Hard to win in October when u cant field
Orel Saxhiser
For sure re the defense. Potentially, a highly entertaining AL playoffs with the Astros, Red Sox, White Sox, Rays, and whoever gets that fifth spot. Do you think Oakland hangs on?
Dusty has quietly done a great job, hasn’t he?
beastee
Correct. Hence why they went out and got a better defensive 2nd baseman than they had. And they will be getting a gold glove centerfielder back next week. which will push Engel to RF. their defense is about to get MUCH better.
Colt 45
1. Why can I reply to you here, but in all your other posts today, I can’t?
2. Dusty has been GREAT, not the let down after Hinch I feared he’d be.
3. I HATE your politics, and think you are ridiculously wrong about the relative quality of baseball and its players, prior to now vs now, BUT
4. Your takes on baseball day to day in 2021 are EXCELLENT, and
5. What aspect of music is the book about?
Astros2017&22Champs
Dusty is good. Was not excited about him but he has been perfect. Hes even keel. The players love him. His hook is a lot quicker than it used to be. Astros fans butcher him for the bullpen woes but you cant have ryan pressly pitch 2 innings every game
tstats
Does everyone just know each other here, I’ve read the Yankee threads and I feel like they need a group chat
Colt 45
“Astros fans butcher him…”
Man, as an Astros fan, I have pretty much zero complaints about ANYTHING regarding my team, one of the top 20 teams all-time in terms of sustained winning over many years.
whyhayzee
yankee fans is one big bromance. Kind of gross.
PutPeteinthehall
Looking forward to an Astros White Sox ALCS. The recent weekend series between the two teams in Chicago reminded me greatly of the 2005 WS.
nrd1138
Yeah, Jimenez was awesome…. for 2.5 games… The guy is a chandelier and I just hope he and Robert can stay healthy for longer than a week at a time.
Im still not sold on the Sox, I really wish I could but I have seen this team collapse under expectations time and time again. They really needed another bat for RF, and a guy that would fire up this club, which I still don’t see on the position player side (Anderson is not firing his team up like in the past, maybe they tuned him out). Otherwise the Sox bats just wilt, pack up and check out when a good pitcher is on the mound, and in the playoffs that will be a problem.
dudecubs
Who?
Rsox
All that money for Liam Hendricks and they still went out and traded for a Closer…
ABCD
Remember the Royals in 2014-15.
Bochys Retirement Fund
Rsox, can never have too much elite bullpen
luclusciano
Luckily he went to the Wsox
letsplay2
Check back in October, from the parade.
jjd002
What does a parade in Houston have to do with anything related to Chicago?
GASoxFan
Chicago suffered a trashcan shortage due to the massive imports in Houston?
mro940
Not sure a Sox fan can throw much shade at a Hou fan: Sox have a reputation for cheating to lose big games 🙂
Joe Kerr
@mr0940 In whose lifetime? Are you 130 years old and remember it vividly?
BeforeMcCourt
“We cheated a while ago so it doesn’t count!”
Jerry Dipoto Burner
Kimbrel and Hendrik are lethal. But Graveman is better. Hence why I traded him away to a division rival.
Ghost of past pirates
put your bowl of dipoto crap on the back burner
Jerry Dipoto Burner
I already did. I hope to trade Haniger or Julio Rodriguez for Graveman once again. That should fix the clubhouse.
Orel Saxhiser
The Mariners are still building. Cashing in Graveman was a smart move. Amusing that a bunch of Mendoza Line hitters and pitchers with 5-plus ERAs are whining. Maybe they should focus on playing better?
Jerry Dipoto Burner
Exactly. My players are a bunch of crybabies for a two month rental. Toro will be great next year while Graveman will come back to us on a veterans contract.
MetsMosLoyal 2
White Sox need to start beating the above .500 teams would be my concern as Sox fan, with few real nice pick ups and healthy players coming back… looks bright for Southsiders
nrd1138
Yeah, I have learned one thing about being a Sox fan, the unbridled optimism needs to go, I have seen this team collapse until expectations before and they have to show me they can beat good teams and not just assume they can. As for the pickups, they are additions, but Im not seeing them being real good, there were far better players out there (maybe excluding Kimbrel) that the Sox could have and should have got if they really were about being ‘all in’ Time will tell of course as to if they were really the smartest guys in the room and got the most bang for their trade, but I have also seen this team make some real bad trades (and no, not talking about Tatis) where they guys they got didn’t do jack….Lets see them win some big games against good teams (like really good teams should do) and destroy the teams they should and then Ill start building my optimism.
Smelly_Cobb
Short drive south at least
Luke Nowak
Hopefully we avoid the cub effect
ChiSox_Fan
Can’t wait until he soon pitches vs Cubs.
Will help Sox win #1 AL seed.
Catuli Carl
The Sox may be better than the Cubs at baseball right now, but the Cubs are better in every other way: fanbase, ballpark, atmosphere, history, media, traditions, neighborhood, uniforms, etc.
Literally the best you can hope for is to just have better players sometimes.
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
Delusional much!?
Luke Nowak
That is all your opinion, don’t state it like a fact. In my opinion the Sox fan base is much better cause we have more diehard fans, I’ve noticed when I went to a cubs game that many fans seem very casual and just go to have a beer with friends, also when I went around asking cubs fans and Sox fans how many players they could name from there team Sox fans could name far more. Jerseys are purely subjective, same with atmosphere media and traditions. I also think saying the cubs have better history is a bit rich considering they went 108 years without a ring. I will concede the stadium is more historic and cool.
Rumy's Ghost
Nah he’s right. As someone who’s not from Chicago the Cubs are definitely more prestigious in every regard other than their ability to play baseball.
kevinoc81
Well I guess it’s a good thing the White Sox are a BASEBALL TEAM!!!! LMAO
Have fun idolizing your neighborhood and uniforms this October!!!
Catuli Carl
And even that is about the same. The White Sox currently lead the regular season series 64–60 and both teams have won 3 World Series and 1 within in the past 100 years.
Daw(e)some
You went to a Cubs game, and are considering those that attended as “fans” comparative to those that attend Sox games…
There’s a lot wrong with this logic.
(1) Wrigley is an attraction. Non “die hard fans” regularly go for the experience. This isn’t true with Guaranteed Rate.
(2) Attendance number alone between the two teams.
(3) Cost to attend.
CalcetinesBlancos
As a Sox fan by choice, let me assure you that I find your fanbase, ballpark, atmosphere, (losing) history, media, traditions, neighborhood, uniforms, etc. all truly nauseating and/or cheesy. The fact that the Cubs are owned by some trust fund dopes from Nebraska is also so hilariously on-brand it hurts lol. Plus the neighborhood is both disgusting and awful.
Catuli Carl
I appreciate all those things AND our baseball team, which historically speaking has been almost exactly the same as the Sox in terms of World Series wins and the all time record between the two teams.
Luke Nowak
I don’t think there jerseys or fan base are better.
Rumy's Ghost
At least I feel like I have a better chance of not getting robbed when walking to my car on the north side.
johnrealtime
@carl Come on bro, this is embarrassing. I’m a Cubs fan as well but that is a weak ass argument
richardschiefer
What are u SMOKIN yours dumb ass cubbie degenerate
CalcetinesBlancos
Well yeah, if you’re as terrified of minorities as your hero Donny Rum I’m not surprised that you feel that way lol.
sportingdissent
The Cubs aren’t better in any way. There’s a race and class divide in Chicago, where richer and whiter people flock to the Cubs.
Whifff
Catuli, you are excited to be better at “neighborhood” than…….baseball? Then why are you on this site? It’s for BASEBALL people, not Ka’Lowns.
nrd1138
Look, just because the Cubs have a college atmosphere with a bunch of preppy elitists that can afford to take an afternoon off, nevermind all the tourists who care nothing about the team but are willing to blow cash away to get a selfie at the beer garden on Addison, does not make them better. The fact that Wrigley will still sell out even though their owner lied and is now going through another rebuild after duping them by overcharging them on tickets and spending their money to make more money for themselves, just tells me how simple in the head most Cubs fans appear to be.
AndyMeyer
That’s an insanely good back end of the bullpen with Hendricks, Kopech and now the bird man
bobsugar84
They also added Terpa! 2.91 ERA 0.78 WHIP!
AndyMeyer
Oh geez! I totally forgot about the Tepera deal. Scary
nrd1138
Scary, for the Sox, gave up a tying homer in the game last night, and then put the next two guys on base and was outpitched by his teammate Ruiz, who typically only comes in in garbage time… scary indeed…..
Falcon Punch
I am not from Chicago or a Cubs/Sox fan, I am just curious, do these teams often trade with each other?
Megatron2005
Since the Q for Eloy and Cease trade in 2017 this trade and Tepera are the only ones.
However they do have a history. Sox traded Sammy Sosa to the Cubs in 93 or 94
everlastingdave
Jon Garland was drafted by the Cubs and traded to the Sox.
anthonyd4412
Garland for Karchner
Daw(e)some
At that time, Sosa was not thought of highly.
jjd002
Didn’t have that special sauce playing for the Sox
ASapsFables
The White Sox thought enough of Sammy Sosa to deal fan favorite and future HOF’er Harold Baines to the Texas Rangers in a 1989 summer blockbuster. Sosa’s stock didn’t drop when they flipped him to the Cubs for slugger George Bell nearly 3 years later.
As jjd002 already stated, Sosa “Didn’t have that special sauce” yet.
rondon
And the Cubs never regretted that trade for a second. With or without sauce. Anymore than the Giants regret Barry Bonds.
nrd1138
Yeah, the Cubs can always thank Sosa for that WS ring… oh, wait…
Daw(e)some
Almost never. Eloy and Cease on the Sox came from the Cubs in the Quintana deal. That was the last trade that I recall, at least last one of any import.
I can’t recall the one prior to that – which speaks to how rare it is.
(Chicagoan all my life. Cub fan but grew up going to Comiskey, later US Cellular, more than Wrigley. Don’t hate the Sox, just their obnoxious fans.)
CalcetinesBlancos
“Don’t hate the Sox, just their obnoxious fans.”
Ok seriously, have you been to a Cubs game or no? Lol.
nrd1138
Guessing Garland for Karchner was kind of important.
Catuli Carl
Not often.
Classicfinder
Yes. Yesterday in fact.
Wrigley_terror37
Don’t forget the Neal cotts trade in like 07/08
knuck2
Steve Stone for Ron Santo (plus various others) in 1973.
Phantom X
I’m not a fan of the White Sox, but this is incredible.
iml12
Their minors are putrid. It better be an mlb guy or a whole lot of quantity
SwingtheFNbat
Nice get! The Sox are shortening the game.
Awesom-O
Cerami broke it? Congrats BN!
Brownsfan83
I’m a huge Cubs fan
Ghost of past pirates
I bet your belly is as big as your mouth
Faith in the Padres
Does that mean your belly is as small as your Johnson?
RoyalsFanAmongWolves
Good thing most of the White Sox position players are quite young because with all these trades they will end up emptying that farm system pretty fast in the next couple of years.
Catuli Carl
It’s already empty lol. I don’t even want to image what the Cubs got for this.
jolink65
Madrigal alone is a great get for the Cubs. He has the potential to be an elite lead off hitter.
Catuli Carl
Yes. Very happy with the return after all.
Capi
Yeah, but according to white Sox fans… “Trash Heaping Hoyer”… White Sox sure like to pick up Hoyer’s trash then.
dieseldog
May just get the Black Sox to the WS.
Grade_1_teacher
Didn’t see that one coming.
Tom Price
Will be another 100 + years before tbe Cubs win the WS again.
rondon
And maybe another 100 years til Cub haters come up with some new material.
Rumy's Ghost
Did anyone honestly expect the White Sox to be buyers this year?
BrewersMVP08
Uhh yeah. Are you on crack
Rumy's Ghost
At the start of the season…
And yes…
Yummy yummy crack
Luke Nowak
I think everyone but you did
snoopy369
Yes?
Moneyballer
why would they not be buyers?
Rumy's Ghost
What are the Cubs getting in this deal, two beer vendors and leftover bobbleheads?
Pads Fans
Madrigal. Their franchise 2B of the future. Would say present but he is on IL.
Faith in the Padres
After the season last year? Yes
After they lost Roberts Madrigal and Eloy for a while? No
Seeing where they were at in June and July yes.
Eatdust666
Of course, because they did have high expectations this year.
Jesse Cook
That will be a tough bullpen for any team to try and comeback against.
Noel1982
I’m rooting for pirates to hold on to Richard Rodriguez both bc he’s more lucky then good and as a cube fan like where the sea farriers make bad decisions
Moneyballer
Are you drunk?
Ghost of past pirates
hes on the same drugs as the pillow guy
\
Noel1982
I’m just thrilled woke up worried Cubs would get all sentimental and keep everyone or trade their guys for scrubs like a named , but getting the fourth pick in the 2018 draft who hasn’t disappointed at all is magical
Ghost of past pirates
rubiks cube?
Moneyballer
So who closes cuz Liam Hendricks has that spot on lockdown I thought. Changing Kimbrel’s role is a huge gamble, closers rarely have success switching to a setup or long relief role and one of those two will have to do just that.
snoopy369
Hendricks is the closer, Kimbrel would be the 8th inning guy or wherever. Hendricks is one of the top 3 closers in baseball…
MC Tim C
Kimbrel will be the closer. He’s never been a setup guy.
mike127
And snoopy, kimbrel is one of the top one relievers in baseball.
adkuchan
Kimbrel is THE BEST closer in baseball. He’s only given up 2 earned Runs all season, Only 13 hits! Hendriks has been great, but pick any stat… Kimbrel is better.
jhomeslice
@snoop Kimbrel has an ERA 2+ runs lower than Liam, and about 300 more career saves.
Oddvark
The White Sox will win every game for the rest of the season. There will be plenty of work for two closers working alternate days.
PoloGrounds62
Yikes! Game, set, match.
0scar
Damn, I wonder what they gave up. I hope they didn’t include. Sheets. That guy has a nice left handed swing.
JoshBoman2001
Madrigal and Heuer are going to the Cubs I think
Moneyballer
that would a huge huge huge mistake for the white sox. Madrigal is already an MLB talent, he alone be horrible to send for Kimbrel.
Joe It All
Well he’s going to the Cubs
Dumpster Divin Theo
No– Madrigal, affectionately known as slappy around these parts, has a low ceiling. Sox sold high on Mike Caruso 2.0: middling defense, poor baserunning, no power.
nrd1138
Curuso could not hold Madrigal’s Jock, may fun of Madrigal as you will but Caruso was a @#$ing train wreck…
Moneyballer
It’s going to be one of those prospects that came up and saw playing time due to injury. I’d say an outfielder heads back. I mean with Eloy and Robert coming back they have a glut of options and can’t play them all!
CubsWin108
*takes a shot*
Monkey’s Uncle
Stay thirsty, my friend.
Ghost of past pirates
38 special
Chief Two Hands
I thought this trade deadline was potentially going to be interesting, but fairly predictable. It has been very interesting but far from predictable, at least according to the voices in my head…which are usually pretty reliable.
LordD99
As I said yesterday, a trade deadline with lots of trades (and unpredictable ones) is fun for anyone who loves baseball.
canyon2129
My God. Wow. Lethal.
Basballfanno1
Still no championship
Ghost of past pirates
im rooting for the CHISOX
anthonyd4412
For whom?
ASapsFables
Yes!!! I suggested this possibility leading up to the deadline and my wish has come true!
ASapsFables
I’m guessing that there will be more than a few White Sox fans who are not thrilled with this trade. I might even have been one of them. Fortunately, I am also a lifelong Cubs fan so for me it’s a win-win. The White Sox now have a better opportunity to win a World Series title, not only in 2021 but 2022 as well with Craig Kimbrel’s team control. I can also continue rooting for one of my favorite young ‘throwback’ players in MLB on the other side of town.
Memo to those disgruntled White Sox fans: Flags fly forever!
nrd1138
Meh.. As I know you have been a long time fan of the Sox you should know by now they have to PROVE it and not just rely on conjecture and hyperbole… This team has wilted FAR too many times to gain my blind optimism that many on this board have.. Hell, one of their awesome acquisitions almost cost them the game last night and made the Sox garbage time pitcher (Ruiz) look good. After losing 3 of 4 to the doormat Royals, the Sox still have a LOT to show me.
ASapsFables
White Sox fan from Missouri?
nrd1138
Nope, I think we have been through this before but 30 year Sox fan from Chicago burbs and I have seen too many flops by this team to get my hopes up.. I was feeling good when they took 2 of 3 vs the Astros after the AS break but then look like they took the next two weeks off… I want to see this team put it all together and win it all and yeah they are 18 Games over .500 which is amazing. However, I also want to see Moncada actually look like he is trying out there, I want to see Jimenez not play for only 2.5 games this season. I want to see if Robert can tear the cover off of the ball and not do it for a month and then be sidelined for 2. I want to see Giolito be an ace that also looks good against good teams. I want to see Hendriks stop blowing saves. I want to see a steady presence in RF…. I have a lot of ‘wants’ and ‘could be’ but good teams do not have these questions, they have players that go out to compete and win every night and produce, and I have seen this team appear to take far too many games off this season against really bad teams. If the Indians do not lose Bieber, Civale, and Plesac for extended times, I’m not sure the Sox lead is as it is in the division either, not with how they have played lately.
iml12
Madrigal! Not bad
solaris602
That really is an excellent return that will start paying dividends next year. Kudos to Hoyer.
jdgoat
Wow. Chicago White Cubs
Ghost of past pirates
wow JD JACKASS
jdgoat
Are you mad lol?
ASapsFables
Historical note: The Cubs began playing in 1870 as the Chicago White Stockings
amk1920
White Sox trying to repay the Eloy favor with Madrigal
ABCD
Madrigal and Heuer!
Faith in the Padres
Wow nick madrigal. White Sox might have overpaid on this one.
Daw(e)some
I love it!!
hiflew
If they win a WS title, it’s not an overpay.
DarkSide830
but if they dont…
ASapsFables
Those who follow my posts on social media already know that nobody is a bigger Nick Madrigal than myself. Those folks also know that I am a rare Chicagoan who has also been a die-hard fan of both teams since the early 1960’s. I’ve only been able to celebrate two World Series titles in all those years. This trade gives me a better chance to experience another on the southside in 2021 and/or 2022. It might also boost my hopes for another on the northside after that time frame. Flags fly forever!
Additionally, the White Sox will have numerous other opportunities to find their core 2B in the next year or two. They can do it via future free agency or trade and perhaps internally as well. They just drafted and signed two highly touted prep infielders earlier this month. They also have another Cuban lurking who is more advanced and raking at AA Birmingham…SS/2B Yolbert Sanchez.
ASapsFables
Another bonus for me is in regards to Cubs troll Dogbone. He continually mocked me for all of my positive posts regarding Nick Madrigal, labeling him the next Ronald Torreyes.
Hey Dogbone, welcome the “next Ronald Torreyes” to the northside. I hope you’re not too disappointed. Instead, I’m guessing you will be thrilled with the next “Nellie Fox, “Willie Randolph” or perhaps (finger’s crossed) Dustin Pedroia!
Idioms for Idiots
@Aaron Sapoznik
Awesome post!
Whifff
You might be the only one left that hasn’t muted Bone on this site…….
nrd1138
I think both teams got a good deal here, but I think the Sox had a LOT more work to do as this team seems to disappear when they face good pitching (which, yknow, you kinda have to do if you want to win in the playoffs, let alone the World Series). Especially when I see some of the talent moving around in the league yesterday, and seeing what the Sox settled on (and yes I used ‘settled’ as I know Hahn and Williams.. and as much as it is Hahn running the show, this one seems to have Williams finger prints all over it as well, same with the Cleveland trade)..Kimbrel is a good move, unless you bruise both his and Hendriks egos in the bullpen… then not so much.
ASapsFables
Grading trades is always tough when they’re made, especially those involving prospects. This particular deal didn’t include any so it is a bit easier to project.
I’ll give the Cubs an ‘A’ for the reasons i had already posted. The White Sox will also receive an ‘A’ but only if this deal has a direct impact on them winning a championship.
Most Cubs fans gave their beloved high marks for the 2016 Aroldis Chapman trade and he was a strict rental. At that time, Gleyber Torres was their #1 prospect and among the best in all of MLB, even ranked ahead of Eloy Jimenez who would wind up with the White Sox one year later along with highly regarded Dylan Cease in the Jose Quintana deal. That said, all were still PROSPECTS. Nick Madrigal was a highly regarded prospect in his own right but has also produced numbers at the MLB level that have certainly backed up his best tool at least: hitting. Codi Heuer was never ranked as highly as any of these other prospects but that is par for the course for most any relief pitcher. He showed enough as a rookie last year, and in a pennant race, to now be considered a potential future MLB closer down the road. If both Madrigal and Heuer achieve their lofty ceilings this trade could go down as a disaster for the White Sox, but only if Kimbrel doesn’t contribute to a World Series title. With his extra year of control, perhaps he could do it twice.
Let’s be realistic. Even if Kimbrel can’t help get the White Sox to the promised land he will be in Cooperstown five years after he retires. He also sports a World Series ring from 2018 for the other Sox in Boston. IMO, trading for him was a huge gamble worth taking. Who knows, maybe he duplicates that ring or better on the southside and unlike another famous HOF’er who played for both teams he actually chooses to wear a White Sox cap on his bust.
Right now, the Braves are Kimbrel’s most likely choice but he only pitched 5 seasons for them before spending a year in San Diego, 3 in Boston and a couple more on the northside of Chicago. He’s 33 and still has a few more years left on his golden arm so anything is possible.
Btw: Remember when Liam Hendriks signed his big FA contract with the White Sox and told everybody that he wasn’t assuming to be their closer. He was perfectly content to let manager Tony La Russa make that determination which was an easy one in spring training. That will now be tested but Hendriks also said winning rings was his top priority!
Chitown Tony
I’m going to have to listen to Waddle and Silvy this afternoon just to hear Silvy cry his eyes out
snoopy369
Madrigal?? That doesn’t make sense…
ChiSox_Fan
They now have the Cleveland guy Hernadez to play 2B.
Faith in the Padres
For rest of the season. They need a long term answer or short term stop gap next season.
tasteefreeze
Hernandez has a $6 million team option for 2022.
Faith in the Padres
We will see if they pick up his option. It’s never a guarantee.
Hernandez is an option but we will see what happens between now and the off season.
He could crater offensively
They could pursue an upgrade like a Chris Taylor on a 3 or 4 year deal.
nrd1138
Ooption for 2022 is the key, its not like they have him tied up until 2025, and Im not so sure that the Sox would extend him either. Now, if this kid Sanchez that AAron referred to above is the guy the Sox think is their 2nd baseman of the future, then no biggie, but I also remember a time when Aaron Rowand was expendable because Brian Anderson was the CF of the future.
BeeVeeTee
Nick Madigral and Codi Heuer for Craig Kimbrall.
CubsWin108
HOLY CRAP, LET’S GO JED! NICK MADIGAL WE GOT THE CONTACT GUY WE NEEDED! YES!!!
iml12
Madrigal and Nico 1-2 for years to come.
chrismilwaukee
I am so stoked for this trade as a Cubs fan. Nico and Madrigal… WOW!! That’s going to be amazing.
DarkSide830
lethal
jdgoat
Nice return for the Cubs. Must’ve been quite the bidding war for him.
Noel1982
Hell yeah this is a boss return by jethro hoyer ! This is what I’m talking about getting real talent back not no stiffs like Clint Frazier dom smith Miguel andujar or jd Davis !
Up next kris. Byrant and Zach Davies for Joey Bart and will Wilson
TomL
If the vocal majority of White Sox fans weren’t so darn obnoxious and sophomoric I bet they’d gain a lot more converts from but north side. Would have rather seen Rizzo go there than the Yanks.
I like this love though, luckily since I’m in TX now and don’t have to deal with the fans I’m going all in on the Sox this year especially after this!
Daw(e)some
Being a Chicagoan who is a Cubs fan and grew up attending comiskey FAR more than Wrigley, I second this.
I said as much above. I don’t hate the Sox. I find their fans terribly annoying and obnoxious.
TomL
I hear you, I grew up in Hegewisch right near the Hammond border and also went to Comiskey more and it was the immediate dog-like barking response to me me mentioning the Cubs that drove my dislike for the White Sox. Only after being removed from Chicago for a while did I realize it’s not so much the Sox but their horribly obnoxious fans and obsession with the Cubs.
Anyway as a baseball fan I like this team and now can have some connection when Kimbrel is closing games out.
Whifff
Uhhhhh, the last thing White Sox fans want is North Side bandwagon converts. No Dawesome. They can stay away.
rondon
Don’t worry. They’re rare.
TomL
Thank you for proving my point.
nrd1138
Looking in the mirror are you? Look I would not hate some of the Cubs fans if they did not act like they claim the majority of Sox fans act. So, unless everyone looks in the mirror it is what it is, but don’t act like your kind are any better.
TomL
I’m looking at data. Most Cubs related posts here over the course of the last several years you see the first to respond are White Sox trolls obsessed with the Cubs. Sox fan friends growing up in the south side too. Anyway, point is that the Cubs organization really screwed up by not keeping at least ONE of their core and the White Sox have executed a great rebuild, have a good team, and now a great Cubs closer! I’ll try to forget LaRussa is their manager though.
mt in baltimore
The White Sox gave up wayyyyy too much to get him…
Whifff
MT, he can’t stay healthy. They gave up too much? Look back to college too. His frame won’t handle 162. Always banged up and the worst base runner I’ve ever seen. I learned in little league not to make the last out at 3B.
Prunella Vulgaris
Or the 1st out at 3rd base.
0scar
C’mon man…Madrigal would have been the perfect #2 hitter for next 5 years. Relievers are up and down, so you never know with them. But contact hitters like Madrigal don’t come around too often. **Sigh**
Paul Miller
anybody else read the “C’mon man” like how Biden would say it?
Geography Nerd
Yah lol
Joe It All
I read it in Cris Carter’s voice
Ya'll a bunch of salty crybabies
Actually it would look more like “Mcmnmonn uh uh uh ma…uh…mannn”.
hiflew
You aren’t paying attention if you think guys like Madrigal don’t come around too often. There are prospects like him that come around EVERY year. He is a good prospect, but he is not helping THIS YEAR’S team win a WS. The Cubs are gambling that Madrigal can help them in the future and not become Addison Russell, another one of those prospects that “don’t come around too often.”
iml12
Not a lot of .300 hitters in the mlb, very few.
JohhnyBets67
@hiflew…….
You say the same damn thing about every prospect trade w/ no analysis whatsoever. Madrigal has shown over 300 PA’s in 2 seasons in the bigs that he can hit the baseball…..As he has throughout the minors. Senselessly bashing every prospect or young player isn’t very meaningful.
hiflew
Thank you for being a loyal reader. I appreciate you taking the time out of your life to read my words.
Besides I didn’t mean they were gambling he could be a big league hitter. I meant they were gambling he would be the SAME big league hitter after coming back from injury.
Plus, Addison Russell looked like a long term big league hitter after 300 PAs as well. Still a gamble.
JohhnyBets67
No he actually didn’t.
Russell hit 10% below league average in his first season. You just senselessly bash prospects or young players w/o analysis. Time and time again. It’s completely meaningless. Madrigal has hit 10-15% above average. Doing exactly what everyone thought he would do when he was drafted in the top 5.
You like it when teams acquire veterans. And you don’t like prospects. That’s your bias.. Think about if you’re adding any useful analysis on the player before you post or if you’re just bashing him because he’s a prospect that “might not work out.” Even though this specific one showed he could hit over 2 partial seasons. And came w the pedigree that said he would.
jonliv28
Cubs won
nrd1138
Well at least the Cubs can say this about their season, eh?
nailz#4life
Cubbies did not get enough in this trade. An injured player and a bullpen piece. .
Larry David's Joe Pepitone Jersey
Madrigal has a lot of control & upside. Getting him for a rental reliever is a great move.
Moneyballer
Since when is Kimbrel a rental? You clearly aren’t aware of his contract details. Sox can keep him for all of next year if they want to.
MC Tim C
Cubs won’t be contending next year so Kimbrel doesn’t really add value for them. Madrigal can be their #1 or #2 hitter all season with control well beyond next year.
chrismilwaukee
What the heck are you talking about? Clueless.
nrd1138
I think the Cubs got plenty, Im guessing you forgot the masses that wanted Kimbrel ridden out of town when he was awful….
Kimbrel should be good for the Sox, but Madrigal should be a good player for many years and Heuer has closer, or at least setup, type of stuff (which is why Im guessing Hoyer wanted…umm. Heuer..) Closers have a habit of being lights out one year and godawful the next.
I think both sides got what they needed here.
goastros123
What the hell, James Click.
Colt 45
very very quiet
Cheeseman Forever
Brewers-CWS Series? Both with three elite starters and now both with elite 8th and 9th inning guys. (And plenty of other talent too.)
Aj5258
I hate this trade for the Sox. Madrigal will be missed.
ChiSox_Fan
“Two strikes” can’t hit ball past the pitchers mound.
nrd1138
Yeah, and two strikes also drove in a lot of key runs as well. Im not saying Madrigal is HoF lock or even a 3K hit guy, but I think people do not give him enough credit for his ability to put the ball into play and make something happen.
Chitown Tony
Heck they got Hernandez
BeeVeeTee
Madigral could not stay healthy and the White Sox have Yolbert Sanchez waiting in the minors.
nrd1138
Yeah, that part intrigues me, how good do the Sox think Sanchez will be if they said Madrigal can go?
LordD99
Not saying this in anyway to annoy my White Sox fan friends, but happy to see the White Sox properly valued Madrigal. He’s solid, but not great. No, he’s not on his way to 3,000 hits! The Sox have a real shot at a championship here. Adding Kimbrel improves your odds.
kevinoc81
This is a smart comment. Is Madrigal good? Yes. Will he be missed by fans? Yes. But we didn’t just give up Tatis Jr. again!
The Sox bullpen is now Crochet, Bummer, Tepera, Burr, Kopech, Kimbrel and Hendricks! That’s pretty damn solid!!!
I will miss Madrigal, But I also don’t think replacing him with a player equal to or better than him will be all that impossible!
jhomeslice
RIght on. Madrigal is not Altuve, never going to be. He may be a slightly better player than I think he will be, but I was not that excited about his longer term prospects because of the lack of power. In today’s game, you can’t be near top players for your position without that. He’ll be good for the Cubs, but probably not an all star. Unless the rest of the team is terrible and he is their lone allstar rep.
Sox sure have a better bullpen than a couple days ago. Hope Tepera does better than his debut, that certainly wasn’t great!
anthonyd4412
Oh I love it. Madrigal and Hoerner in the middle. I’d bet Baez is good as gone
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Cubs got flweced again. The cubs front office has to go. It’s like the mid 2000s when Jim Hendry was signing nothing but 2B. And was dead set on getting Brian Roberts for some reason. Cubs don’t need anyone at 2nd.
Moneyballer
yeah no. Cubs did frickin great in this deal.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Except. Madrigal is hurt. Huge downside. Plus they got nick. Even if he was healthy. No place for him. Unless he can play 3rd
MC Tim C
He’s hurt for this year. He’ll be fine for next year. Nick and Nico will play 2B and SS since Javy is likely out the door.
Whifff
Uh MC, he was hurt last year too. And the year before. That’s called…….a pattern.
nrd1138
I guess you missed the Cubs massive fire sale and traded way pretty much all their star talent.. I think the Cubs will be fine as Long as Madrigal is healthy next season, which he should be…
ruckus727
Are you high?
mizzourah87
What are you smoking? This is a massive overpay by the white sox.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Didn’t even know Madrigal hurt. That’s not a very smart trade.
iml12
Cubs arent going anywhere this year. He will be healthy to start next season. He has at least 5 years of control. This is a great trade for the cubs.
Moneyballer
Wow Cubs got some great players here. Giving up on Heuer too soon. Does this mean the White Sox are getting Story from the ROX? I could see it happening. White Sox should trade some OF depth for him. They have too may good players at that position and a need at 2nd base!
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Sox already got Hernandez.
Moneyballer
Forgot about his .220 hitting stupid ass. Story was the answer, should have held out for him Sox went from a .300+ hitter to a barely .200+ hitter, brilliant.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
There’s more to a hitter than BA. You know that, right? By OPS+, Hernandez is a better hitter this year, was way cheaper (both in salary and prospect cost), has affordable team control for another year, and is actually a 2B, unlike Story and TA, one of whom would have had to move over. He’s a far better option for them.
iverbure
You would think a guy with the name moneyballer would know that but sounds like he doesn’t
jhomeslice
@MB Story is hitting .180 with a .630 OPS away from Coors this year. Yuck. In past years he has been much better, but very glad they gave up nothing to get Hernandez than a guy who might not even have been better, and who would have cost a lot more because he is a big name. Hernandez has 18 homers at least, there are way more important metrics than batting average, as hyrax said.
Freshbasil 2
Thought the cubs already had Nico Horner?
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
They do. Making it an awful trade with Madrigal out for the season. The new CBA needs to add you can’t trade injured players
Lloyd Emerson
I get the sense that Billy isn’t very bright.
iverbure
Billy still wants to the Cubs to go out and try and win as many games as possible. Just don’t understand tanking. Still trying to figure out how the Cubs got so good to win in 2016.
anthonyd4412
Madrigal and Heuer. Nice for both teams
ABCD
The only problem with these two is that are spending a lot of time injured, but I like the fact that they are both on the Cubs.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Hate this deal. This is exactly the kind of window-shortening overpay I feared they’d make. Especially without a good in-house replacement beyond next year. The bullpen may be great this year, but the Sox paid way too much.
Freshbasil 2
Thought the cubs already had Nico Hoerner?
mlbnyyfan
Going to be a great post season. Madrigal probably replaces Baez if he’s dealt today.
Catuli Carl
Yep. Baez to Mets imminent.
ricanrob14
Maybe the sox make Hendricks available. $45mil for two closers is unheard of. Kimbrel does have an team option in 2022 and will be cheaper than Hendricks. Smart move either way
iverbure
Wut? Where do you people come up with these scenarios? When do teams lately beef up at the trade deadline only to sell as well? It just doesn’t happen.
Ghost of past pirates
THE MADRIGAL MYSTERY TOUR
los_leebos
wow, anyone else feel this is a massive haul for the Cubbies? Madrigal was cementing himself as a starter on a playoff contender before the injury and Heuer could be the Cubs closer right now, both under 25 and pre-arb, for 60 days of a 34 year old reliever?
jdeucem2
Kimbrel has an option that could easily be picked up next year if they’re under the tax threshold
los_leebos
ah that makes it better, didn’t see the team option there. Thanks! Still like the Cubs’ side considerably more though.
jdeucem2
If they can win a championship, a light hitting second baseman is probably a small price to pay
ruckus727
The White Sox are going to win the American league pennant.
birdsfan415
wow Madrigal
Sky14
Didn’t realize how dominate Kimbrel has been this year, 826 ERA +, ridiculous. Still giving up Madrigal is a hefty price to pay.
Tcsbaseball
Great return for the Cubs
MyWifeLeftMeForWadeBoggs
Giants are standing pat.
Farhan Zaidi’s trust from the fanbase is reliant on a WS win now if he thinks the team is good enough already.
Prunella Vulgaris
Giants got Kris Bryant.
ChiSox_Fan
Glad to see Heuer go!
Catuli Carl
(crying_happy_mask.jpg)
maximumvelocity
I get that Madrigal has limitations, but goodness that’s a steep price for a rental.
That said, a player like Madrigal can be replaced, so long as he doesn’t develop power. But he was doing so before he got hurt.
.Good pickup, but yikes.
BRUH.SF.BRUH
@maximum He’s not a rental though.
ChiSox_Fan
Not a rental!
Idioms for Idiots
Actually, if Kimbrel sucks the next two months, he will in fact be a rental.
Let’s just hope that doesn’t happen. I would love to see the Sox pick up his option for next year, and if he keeps pitching like he’s been so far this season, the option will obviously be picked up.
wkkortas
If you’re a card-carrying member of the Flags Fly Forever Society, and Kimbrel helps you win it all, you can write off what the Sox gave up as an opportunity cost, but if you don’t win it all, that’s a steeeep price tag.
sss847
now the bullpen is lethal.
i don’t like that i’m required to hate madrigal.
i fully blame blake rutherford for not being good enough at baseball to be a headlining trade chip. you cost us mads you jerk.
Classicfinder
Yes. Yesterday in fact.
jojo 2
Miss Madrigal but he’s limited.
Bye bye Codi, total wild card boom or bust type whos been a train wreck this year. Sox fans won’t miss Codi
stymeedone
Altuve was.a.singles hitter when he came up.
BeeVeeTee
The White Sox have Yolbert Sanchez in the minor leagues and should be ready to play second base in the next year or so. The Sox are going to pick up Hernandez’s options for next year. Sanchez and Robert are former teammates in Cubs. Just saying!
jojo 2
Agreed. Bottom line Madrigal had a low ceiling. Solid average everyday regular, totally replaceable. Keep an eye on Sanchez. Has had a nice stateside debut and just got the bump to AA. His D is supposed to be superb and already major league ready. Madrigal was never going to be more than average defensively. This is a good deal for both sides
BeeVeeTee
Jojo, a lot of people haven’t gave Hahn credit with his draft picks and more importantly his international signings. Yolbert Sanchez was considered a great defensive player while he needed a year or two in the minors to improve his hitting against competitive pitchers. As you mentioned above Sanchez racked it up in A ball where he was promoted to AA ball. That was a huge jump for Sanchez where we should not be surprised if he was promoted to AAA and the White Sox made him one of the September call ups.
Sanchez is going to be on the White Sox’s roster in 2022 but depends on he does in AA to AAA or if he is one of the September call ups. Odds are that Sanchez starts 2022 in AAA where the White Sox pick up Hernandez’s option. Sanchez will be up if Hernandez starts to falter but odds are he is going to do well batting in the White Sox’s line up from now until next season. Hernandez recorded two hits last night.
jhomeslice
It’s probably wishful thinking, but Sanchez could actually wind up as good an overall player as Madrigal. Better defensively, probably will have more pop, unlikely to be the kind of average/contact hitter of course. Perhaps he was part of why the Sox made this deal.
BSHH
Madrigal is a very good contact hitter, but since he will likely not hit for much power, I don’t see him producing more than 110 wRC+ on a regular basis. Solid 2Bs hitting around that clip might be had for $ 10ish m AAV, which caps Madrigal’s surplus value to some extent. He was also absolutely expendable for this year’s cup run due to his injury.
Therefore I get what the White Sox are thinking. They still gave up quite a lot, but Kimbrel is one of the few players who makes this impressive roster much better!
Gruß,
BSHH
1984wasntamanual
His wRC+ in both of the partial seasons he’s played in were above 110, why do you think he’ll be worse than that? Legitimate question BTW.
0scar
The fact that they moved Madrigal tells that the Sox could go after one of the shortstops in the off-season and either switch them or Tim Anderson to second. But it’s gonna be a lot of $$$.
Bryzzo2016
It is a great return for Kimbrel. No one thought they’d get a young, proven everyday player like Madrigal. Whatever they get from Huer is a bonus. That said, I think it’s a good move for the White Sox too IF Kimbrel puts them over the top. Like they just said on MLB Network, it’s a lot to give up for a team that already has a closer but it makes their pen nasty. Cubs did the same for Chapman and no one complained when they won a WS. If the White Sox win one with Kimbrel, their fans won’t complain.
Oddvark
As a fan of Madrigal and Heuer, I think this was an overpay. I’m guessing that means the Cubs will be picking up a chunk of Kimbrel’s remaining salary this year.
The one concern I have had with Madrigal is that he appears to be injury prone, with significant injuries both this year and last. I wonder how much that concern made the White Sox more willing to give him up.
With the team options on the Cesar Hernandez and Kimbrel contracts, the recent trades at least don’t create holes for 2022 and give the team time to draft/develop/trade for a longer-term solution at 2B.
CluHaywood
Madrigal’s injury history and his horrendous baserunning and average defense made him more expendable. Heuer is a sad loss, and one day I think he will be an elite arm, but the Sox needed that now. I actually don’t think it was as much of an overpay as you stated, specifically because of the options. What the Cubs gave up for Chapman in 2016 was worse than what the Sox gave up here, in my opinion, specifically because Chapman was only a rental.
maximumvelocity
it was, but Madrigal can be replaced. Even batting for high average, he an above average hitter in terms of OPS+. And he really wasn’t as advertised defensively or as a base stealer.
Heuer could be good as well, but again, he can be replaced.
And overpay, but I’m not really sure by how much.
maximumvelocity
it was, but Madrigal can be replaced. Even batting for high average, he an above average hitter in terms of OPS+. And he really wasn’t as advertised defensively or as a base stealer.
Heuer could be good as well, but again, he can be replaced.
And overpay, but I’m not really sure by how much.
SCOTTG3
It’s a great deal for ChiSox. Kimbrel under contract for 22 too, and they will pick up Cesar Hernandez option for 22′. Playoffs are won more and more by bullpens and the SSide is as nasty as anyone in MLB, Hendriks, Kimbrel, Bummer, Tepera, Kopech, Crochet. LaRussa has been the forefront Mgr in using bullpens in his career. And no way WSox organization didn’t talk to Liam Hendriks 1st and get his approval and he’s on board. He’s got the 4 yr deal and is the primary guy but won’t have to be overworked now, fresher for Playoffs.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Since when did the White Sox become the Yankees – Midwest? They’ll be paying their 8th & 9th inning pitchers over $33M next year (if they pick up the Kimbrel option). That’s an expensive bullpen! I’m surprised they dealt Madrigal. His BA floor at the plate seems to be .300; he’s going to be the Cubs lead off batter for the he next 4-5 seasons. Nice return for the Cubs. We here in Boston remember what happens when Kimbrel goes South. It happens in a blink of an eye and it’s not a pretty sight. They are very fortunate to have Hendrix there to back him up. The AL playoffs are going to be like American Gladiators; it should be must-watch baseball!
jhomeslice
The Royals were in the WS in 2014/15 largely because of a great bullpen. We can only hope this works out as well, our starting rotation was way better than those teams.
They will face stiff competition in the playoffs but as least have a reasonable shot against anybody, now. I did not like their chances prior to getting two bullpen arms, one was not enough.
Oddvark
Slight exaggeration re Hendriks’ cost. You’re still thinking of his “3yr/$54M” deal as $18M per year, but that includes a 100% buy-out 4th year option which losers the real annual cost, and specifically he’ll only be paid $13M in 2022. With Kimbrel’s $16M option, that totals “only” $29M.
Obviously still a ton of cash, if they keep both guys on the roster.
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
Terrible move. I very much wanted the White Sox to acquire Kimbrel. The White Sox overreached though. Giving up nearly any other prospects would have been far easier to swallow. Even if it required giving up multiple prospects. They don’t have any depth at the middle infield positions. Vaughn, Burger, Sheets, Crochet, etc… Even with this move they’re still not a World Series team in my opinion. Also frustrating because they went against what they’ve preached about, not selling off the future for the present. This just feels like deja vu with Kenny Williams at the helm. I hope they prove me wrong.
Jake1972
In my opinion the Cubs won this trade but the Soxs should win the World Series even against the Dodgers.
ChiSoxCity
Must say I’ll miss Madrigal busting out those base hits, but I like this move.
The bullpen needed new faces. I wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see Bummer traded too.
Nick is due for a batting title at some point, if he can stay on the field.
I still want to see a big bat added in RF. They do that, then I think they’re the favorites to win the pennant.
Cubs Dynasty
This was a very good trade for our Cubs Madrigal, a great contact hitter, solidifies that second base revolving door over the past several seasons. Perhaps they’ll ship Baez and promote Hoerner at SS.
Prunella Vulgaris
Baez is now a Met.
Orel Saxhiser
The Cubs might end up having a really good week,. depending on what happens in the next hour.
thebluemeanie
Surprised the White Sox gave up on Madrigal already.
MadSkillsUniversity
I am too, but Cesar gives the WS to win now and next year.
MadSkillsUniversity
Wow, did not see this coming, but I love it. While Heuer was great last year, he needs a was not good at all this year. I needs a change of location, not city. LOL. As for Madigral, I love the kid, but he is injury prone, needs more time in the bigs, but he bat he awesome. However, he will never hit for power, and we need some power and solid D there, and Cesar can provide both – plus experience for this and next year. That said, Kimbrel is a welcome because he solidifies our BP. Now, we just need Roberts back. Or, what else is up yoru sleeve Rick?
MadSkillsUniversity
Wow, did not see this coming, but I love it. While Heuer was great last year, he needs a was not good at all this year. I needs a change of location, not city. LOL. As for Madigral, I love the kid, but he is injury prone, needs more time in the bigs, but he bat he awesome. However, he will never hit for power, and we need some power and solid D there, and Cesar can provide both – plus experience for this and next year. That said, Kimbrel is a welcome because he solidifies our BP. Now, we just need Roberts back. Or, what else is up your sleeve Rick? Regarding what the Cubs received, I think both players will do well, and they also get to dump some salary. Good trade all around. The Cubs are also ensuring that each player has a change to play beyond September.
MadSkillsUniversity
I think both sides did OK here. I will miss Nick and he will be good for the Cubs rebuild and the fans will love his grit and grind. Due can out right hit, does not strike out and is still a rookie IMHO, so he will fit in perfectly with the rebuilding, NEW CUBS.
IronBallsMcGinty
I’m not crazy about this trade. Yes, Kimbrel is good now but how long will that last? Pay all that money for Hendriks and pick up another closer? I would have rather kept Madrigal and found a different reliever. I really hope this trade doesn’t blow up in their face. I don’t care that Nick is out for the season. He was a really nice long term fit with the Sox.
ChiSoxCity
The Sox aren’t playing for the future anymore. Their window of contention started in spring training. Madrigal is a good young player, but he’s not coming back this season, and has been injury prone. The Sox needed to move on and get the team ready to compete for a championship. It was a move that had to be made, and I applaud Hahn. Now get us an everyday RF who can hit for power and field!
Eat em Up
What a massive overpay.
The Brokenheart Kid
Why or why did they have to give up Madrigal? That’s the piece of the deal that I hate. It was too high of a price. On the other hand, if the team hopes to win this season, Madrigal wasn’t going to help, and there might not be a next season, so strike while the iron is hot. But Madrigal? I really liked the kid’s game. He’ll be missed.
The Brokenheart Kid
Why or why did they have to give up Madrigal? That’s the piece of the deal that I hate. It was too high of a price, On the other hand, if the team hopes to win this season, Madrigal wasn’t going to help, and there might not be a next season, so strike while the iron is hot. But Madrigal? I really liked the kid’s game. He’ll be missed.
Pads Fans
Bryant to the Giants.
Pads Fans
For Bart and their new starting LF. Holy Moly!! Hoyer is rocking it!!
Deleted_User
Trump “wrong” gif
cwsOverhaul
Big fan of the focus on a Super Pen, but the reality is this for it to matter…..The core 5 getting paid (Abreu, Moncada, Eloy, Grandal, TA) have to step up big time against decent RHPs, especially on the road. They have collectively been terrible producing runs. Otherwise, let’s go!!
ChiSoxCity
Yep, and Robert should’nt be expected to give the Sox a lift offensively. He’s been brutally bad at the plate since the late LAST season. Hoping het gets it together this season, but the Sox need to get help in RF.
Bi Soxual
Sheets should see alot of RF & then def replaced late in games by Goodwin Hamilton
Oddvark
@ChiSoxCity
If you consider Robert’s .316/.359/.463 slash line for a 127 wRC+ in 2021 to be brutally bad, I don’t think there are any good hitters in the MLB.
ChiSoxCity
Flush those stats down the toilet where you got them from and try watching more than a few games (or all of them like me). Luis is an easy out because he can’t lay off breaking balls low and away (like 80% of the lineup). Playoff caliber pitching will have their way with the Sox hitting lineup.
JoeBrady
That’s a huge get for the Cubs, imo. Even more amazing, they had two contracts, Darvish & Kimbrel, that folks thought were a write just over a year ago. Half the players on the Cubs 2024 will come from those two players.
iml12
Every Sox fan on here drooling over Kimbrel was bashing him 3 months ago, phenomenal job by Hoyer.
bbcalmc
Wow!! White sox will be sorry makin this deal
Bi Soxual
Being a HUGE Nicky2Strikes fan,This trade would nvr have happened if Nicky stayed healthy since draft.Durablilty from shoulder to now ham missing LRG chunks of time.Love the kid.Cubbies gotta savant literally line to line ropes.
lilojbone
I am glad I am not the only Sox fan displeased with this trade. Well, I have an excuse for an extra shot of tequila tonight. If the Sox win this year, well then, I have an excuse for more than a shot.
jhomeslice
Well we won’t know how this works out for a while, but prior to the last 24+ hours, the Sox were going to win nothing in October this year with the bullpen as it was. So credit to Hahn for taking a risk today, and making two solid trades yesterday giving up close to nothing. Teams have to take risks sometimes… if you never take any risks, you run the risk of playing it too safe and looking back with regret. However it turns out, it’s way better than not trying.
Wish Madrigal well, but he is unlikely to be near the top of his position in MLB due to lack of power. Still was a lot to give up, but he is replaceable – and could not help them this year at all. With Rodon gone after this year (most likely), this may be one of the best shots this team has at a title, who knows. Hernandez is really hitting well right now, and with his power could wind up being nearly as productive as Madrigal next year, or at least not a massive downgrade. Very different type of hitter than Nick.
Anyway I like their team and chances a lot better than prior to yesterday. Hopefully they get a little luck on their side for a change and everyone gets and stays healthy!
Luke Strong
Sox fleeced by Cubs…
srsjsn
I dont get how the Sox overpaid for a future hall of famer having a very good season. They gave up a contact hitter that doesnt know how to run the bases and hasnt been very good at defense and has had two big injuries the last two seasons. of the players that were expendable it was him. Can find light hitting 2nd baseman all the time that actually know how to run the bases and catch the ball.
Mario93
Fantastic trade for the Cubs
revolver
Good trade for both. This males the Sox the AL favorites.
jhomeslice
I’d like to believe that. Wish their offense looked better. Won’t know until we see all their guys back together. Hernandez tonight, Eloy whenever he recovers from his groin thing, and then Robert/Grandal. They should get a heck of a lot better if everybody is healthy at once, and stays healthy.
empirejim
Cubs-Nats game today should be interesting…. Almost nobody left on either team. May look like an early Spring Training game.
junkmale
Talk about a career resurgence. From being considered washed up to fetching Nick Madrigal + other assets.
Camden453
Among the most lopsided trades Ive ever seen. 2B Nick Madrigal, a 24 year old 4th overall pick who has hit .317/.358/.406 for a 33 year old reliever you get through 2022 at $16 million
On top of that they add in Heuer. Yeah it’s nice to add Kimbrel but that’s too much for a reliever
padresfan111323
What an overpay for the Sox
Idioms for Idiots
@padresfan111323
If I were a Pads fan, I’d be more worried about going 1-and-out in the WC. What a waste of a “stacked” roster that would be.
Whifff
“Overpay” on this site means = my team lost out on getting the dude
junkmale
Nah, I sincerely doubt anyone is bummed their team didn’t overpay for Craig Kimbrel. The White Sox made a bad trade, plain and simple.
Idioms for Idiots
Way late to the party, I see, but my two cents worth:
It hurts me to see Madrigal go, but it’s all worth it if the Sox win it all this year (and/or next year). I could care less about Heuer, he’s a one-year wonder (1/3 of a year wonder to be more precise). Well, Hahn definitely improved the pen. What a devastating pen that is going to be.
Hendriks/Kimbrel as closer(s), Kopech, Crochet, Bummer, Tepera, Ruiz, and Lopez as the long man (sort of). At least that’s what the pen is right now. If Bummer can regain any of that magic from the last couple of years, that is going to be an even more vicious pen to face. And I’m guessing the Sox probably have the most expensive pen in MLB now.
Unless Cesar Hernandez really impresses the rest of the year, the Sox now have a glaring need to fill this Winter. But thankfully 2B isn’t going to be expensive for them. It still hurts me to see Madrigal go, but at least he was already done this season, so the trade didn’t affect the offense right now. Like I said, if Kimbrel helps them get a ring (or even two), losing Madrigal was well worth it.
I’m still in shock. I hope I don’t suddenly wake up realizing this was just a dream.
south side hit men
This must be a great trade for both teams after reading comments. Sox fans saying we overpaid and some saying we fleeced the Cubs. Cubs fans excited about their haul and others mad they got ripped off
Idioms for Idiots
I’m getting a good laugh at some of these posts I’ve glanced at (too many to read them all). A lot of these commenters who are claiming overpay are probably the same ones who, just hours ago, thought he was a weak hitter with suspect defense.
It’s amazing how a trade turns what fans of a certain team view as a “marginal” player suddenly morphs into an MVP candidate within minutes of the trade being completed.
Cubs got a nice return on this deal. I’m hoping this trade is a win-win for both sides.
ChiSoxCity
Agreed, it was a good trade for both sides. I love Madrigal, but the Sox need reliable relief (outside of Liam and Kopech), and more power in the lineup. They rank near the bottom of the league in home runs. Not a big deal during the season, but a playoff series against the AL elite hitters means a quick exit.
SalaryCapMyth
There’s always someone screaming overpay. As though this trade happened in a vacuum. What’s the point of hording talent if you aren’t going to get the players you need to win a world series? I’ve never been particularly fond of the White Sox but the FO has won me over with the team they’ve put together.
junkmale
You’re quite a hero to your own story, aren’t you? Was your comment your attempt to get hired as a writer on MLBTR?
Also, it’s not “marginal” player, it’s “Madrigal” player.
SalaryCapMyth
Hendricks AND Kimbrel back to back is just a nasty thought. A little expensive but it’s not like we know what the next best offer was.
I noticed Kopech has been pitching out of the bullpen. Is there a knowledgeable White Sox fan that can tell me if Kimbrel means he’s moving to the rotation or is Kopech now going to function as a third option to slam the door shut on an opposing team?
If Kopech remains in the pen, that is just an unimaginable three headed monster. If you don’t have the lead after the sixth, you could be in a lot of trouble.
Idioms for Idiots
@SalaryCapMyth
He won’t be a starter this year, unless an injury to one of the starters. I don’t think Kopech’s gone more than an inning in a game since his return from injury. So even if a starter goes down, he may function more as an opener than a starter.
SalaryCapMyth
It’s not such a bad thing having him come out of the pen, though. The White Sox may have the best pen in baseball. Haven’t compared all the pens together or anything but it’s difficult to imagine a better one.
junkmale
Both Hendriks and Kimbrel have proven time and time again they fall apart in the postseason. You’re being silly.
SalaryCapMyth
Hendricks last 6 2/3 innings He has allowed 2 runs and that covers the last two seasons. Kimbrel has a fantastic record in the larger, first half of his career. Seeing as Kimbrel sure is looking like his early career he seems pretty safe to add to a playoff run. So how about you do a better job of keeping up with the rest of us. Or is your shtick looking for late, time stamped posts which are unlikely to get any replies?
Another idea is, you don’t have to be a little punk about how you address people. You don’t have to be a jerk because you’re online. Your internet access won’t be terminated.
dasit
feels like a lot of people outside of south chicago have been sleeping on the white sox. they will be very very tough in a short series
ChiSoxCity
If they’re not hitting and producing runs against good pitching, then no… they won’t be tough in a short series.
canyon2129
If the starters keep them in the game through 5, I like their chances. This is exactly how LaRussa likes a game to unfold. Chicago will be tough to beat.
neurogame
Madrigal is a good get for the Cubs. When more than 95% of players are swinging for 3-run home runs when there is no one on base, Madrigal is focusing on making contact and getting on base. The Cubs will see a lot less strikeouts with h8m in the lineup.
chisox81
I like Kimbrel but after acquiring Tepera I would’ve never gave up Madrigal to acquire Kimbrel. Sox bullpen has been average at best this season. Tepera puts them above average. The Biggest problem this season isn’t the bullpen it’s the Sox ability to manufacture runs. Having an ass bag manager who can’t put together a consistent line up doesn’t help. Hernandez is batting .231 so he isn’t gonna help much filling the void at 2nd base or give the offense the much needed boost. Moncada is most successful in the 2 spot but the ass bag manager doesn’t see it that way and keeps shuffling him up and down the line up. Cubs got the best of this deal.
mason
Great trade for both teams ! With Sox getting healthy and Kimbrel added to the bullpen White Sox should be facing the Dodgers in the WS ..
chisox81
If they can’t hit and score runs what use is Kimbrel? To give up Madrigal (who can actually hit) in the process. Although he’s out for the season I can see this problem carrying over into next season because of the ass bag manager getting cute with the line up.
BeeVeeTee
Sorry to bust your bubble but Madigral is out for the season and the White Sox are looking to win the World Series this year. There is no way the White Sox are going to let this pitching rotation go to waste this year while seeing what happens in the future with this pitching staff. Meanwhile the White Sox have the option for Hernandez next year while Yolbert Sanchez is a great defender who can play short stop or second base and is racking it up in the minor leagues.
Rallyshirt
Kimbrel helps the entire White Sox pitching staff.
chisox81
But he doesn’t fill the biggest need while giving up what they’ve been missing. A consistent hitter!! How
Rallyshirt
Kimbrel. It’s a big move. Coupled with Tepera, he has a buddy. Has anyone been paying attention to how the whitesox make many of their deals? It’s like a family. Everyone coming over here mostly knows each other or has worked together in their early careers. Players, coaches, it’s storybook.
This move could even bring both clubs closer where the Quintana deal did not. It’s a gentleman’s game in the clubhouse and front office.
PutPeteinthehall
Maybe. Looked like Tepera left the game with an injury after facing three and a half batters last night.
giants51
Young star in madrigal….. was that a smart move….
Rallyshirt
Cubs need this, after that Gleyber Torres deal.
Peart of the game
Overpaid in giving Madrigal up, but they’ll have Hernandez available in 2022 to play second.
msqboxer
Far from overpaying…Madrigal won’t win a gold glove, plays a position that is easy to fill and the position averages the lowest salary in baseball and he is a singles hitter 94/100 hits. He’ll be a really good player batting second or at the bottom of the line up for years..CWS gets an elite closer for 2 years or until they trade him. Having Tepera, Bummer, Crochet, Kopech, Hendricks and Kimbrel just took the pressure off the starters.
ChiSoxCity
Madrigal is a perennial batting title candidate and All Star if he stays healthy.
His defense is solid, with room for improvement as he gains experience.
You don’t need a GG at 2nd base.
BeeVeeTee
In all reality the White Sox’s window is the next three years. People need to take a look how expensive guys like Anderson and Moncada will be in a few years to the White Sox making off season decisions with keeping Rodon around or moving Giolito who has two years left before hitting free agency. Kuechel’s contract has incentives with his innings pitched this year and next year for his fourth year option kicking in.
Let’s enjoy the White Sox right now and appreciate what Hahn is doing for us White Sox fans. Honestly, we can see at least one World Series championship with this squad while Hahn wants more than one, since that has been his goal as the White Sox general manager. Reinsdorf is giving Hahn the resources to get a competitive team for the next three to five years.
jhomeslice
Realistically there is pretty close to no chance of multiple championship because of moves like the Dodgers made yesterday. Kimbrel helps, but he isn’t Scherzer plus Trea Turner. That trade was bad for baseball really. If Bauer isn’t in jail, they will have 4 of the top 10 starting pitchers in baseball for October.
Baseball is too competitive for any team except maybe the Dodgers with an unlimited budget to win more than once. Sox might play the Dodgers, even this year. Beating them once would be a massive feat, twice pretty close to impossible. Just keeping it real. Every playoff series should be pretty tough to even get to the World Series more than once.
ChiSoxCity
Actually you’re wrong. Baseball is only competitive during the regular season, like every other professional sport nowadays. Gamblers love it, but fans eventually find better things to do with their time/money. TV rating for the NBA Finals were the lowest in history in 2020. I predict the same will happen for the WS this year.
jhomeslice
Whether TV ratings are high or not has nothing to do with how competitive baseball is. There hasn’t been back-to-back World Series winners in over 20 years. Not sure if you and I are debating the same point… I’m merely saying that talk of Sox winning multiple titles is probably meaningless because the best team in baseball wins 100 games, which is the equivalent of a 10-6 football team in terms of winning percentage. There is no dominance in baseball like other sports, my main point. Which is why it is pretty rare that a team wins more than one championship. That’s what I mean by competitive. Whether there are a lot of fans excited/interested is another thing, probably what you are talking about.
sportingdissent
Madrigal’s overall value is debatable. Elite hit tool but his numbers overall look average when metrics are used. Despite that hit tool, he created fewer runs than an average second baseman. If he can learn to hit for a bit more pop, that will shift things. But scouts are split on whether that’s even possible for him without sacrificing his only elite tool.
As a White Sox fan, I’m torn about this. Because the team needed a right fielder a lot more than an upgrade at closer. Picking up another bullpen arm for a lower cost and bringing in a RF for Madrigal made a lot more sense. It’s gonna be tough when the difference in the playoff comes down to whether Billy Hamilton or Brian Goodwin can get enough big hits.
jhomeslice
Don’t forget about Engel. He is probably their best overall RF at the moment, both offensively and defensively. They need to upgrade this winter, but might get by with Engel and a little bit of Goodwin this year, if Eloy/Robert/Abreu/Grandal/Moncada show up, plus Vaughn. No team has 9 good hitters.
I think their bullpen was complete crap before these trades. Heuer/Marshall/Burdi/Foster all with ERA’s in high 5’s and 6’s, Bummer close to 5, Burr being a lot less effective recently. They couldn’t expect to get through the playoffs relying on Kopech, Crochet, and Liam alone. Now they have two more excellent options, that are replacing ones that were complete garbage. It’s not just that they improved, but that the guys they replaced were horrible and basically unusable as far as the postseason.
David Barista
I am a Madrigal fan and I think he has star potential, but his success is entirely reliant upon his elite contact…. he’s not a gold glover (weak arm) and he isn’t stealing 30 bases… maybe he can develop more power? If/when he slumps, I could see him being demoted… I think he has a really high ceiling with the potential to also be sent to the bench.
As for right field, Billy Hamilton won’t be in playoff games unless it’s as a late game pinch runner or defensive replacement. Engel, Sheets, and Goodwin will split up the at bats in RF.
The bullpen was atrocious, and Kimbrell is the best possible upgrade the White Sox could have made.
nrd1138
After seeing all of these comments from both sides about an overpay, that tells me that really its a good trade for both teams.
canyon2129
In the end, that was the cost to get him. Those rings come with a cost. So be it.