12:02pm: The Blue Jays have announced the trade.
11:31am: The Blue Jays and Twins have a deal in place sending right-hander Jose Berrios to Toronto, reports Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (Twitter link). MLB.com’s Jon Morosi reports that top pitching prospect Simeon Woods Richardson is part of the return. Infielder Austin Martin, the No. 5 overall pick from last summer’s draft, is also going to Minnesota, reports Dan Hayes of The Athletic.
Berrios, 27, gives the Blue Jays perhaps the second-best pitcher on this summer’s trade market, trailing only Max Scherzer, who is expected to join the Dodgers later today. Unlike Scherzer, he’s controllable beyond the 2021 season, as he’s only in his second arbitration season. Berrios is earning $6.1MM in 2021 and will be due one more arbitration raise this winter before reaching free agency upon conclusion of the 2022 campaign.
Berrios will join Hyun Jin Ryu and the resurgent Robbie Ray atop the Toronto rotation, comprising what now looks to be a formidable trio. He’s in the midst of one of his finest seasons, pitching to a 3.48 ERA with a career-best 25.7 percent strikeout rate, an excellent 6.5 percent walk rate and a career-high 43.6 percent ground-ball rate. He’s posted those numbers through 20 starts and a total of 121 1/3 frames, standing out as one of the dwindling number of pitchers in today’s game who averages six-plus frames per outing.
Of course, Berrios isn’t simply durable on a per-game basis. He’s been one of the game’s most durable starting pitchers overall, throughout the entirety of his career. He’s never been on the Major League injured list and is currently on pace for what would be his fourth straight season of a full slate of starts. He made 26 appearances back in 2017 — the final season he was optioned to the minors — and has since made 32 starts, 32 starts, 12 starts (a full workload in last year’s 60-game season) and 20 starts so far in 2020.
During that time, he’s never posted an ERA above 4.00 and has pitched to an overall 3.76 mark with a 24.2 percent strikeout rate and a 7.2 percent walk rate. Berrios may not quite be a Cy Young-caliber, top-of-the-rotation ace, but he’s as consistent and durable as it comes for a second/third starter.
The Blue Jays paid a steep price to acquire a year and a half of that consistency. Martin, last year’s No. 5 overall pick, was viewed by many in the industry as the best all-around player in the draft class. It was a legitimate surprise when he slipped beyond the No. 2 overall pick and fell to the Jays with the fifth selection. He’s currently ranked as the No. 16 prospect in the game at MLB.com, No. 21 at Baseball America and No. 23 at FanGraphs.
Martin starred at Vanderbilt in college, hitting .368/.474/.532 in his college career. The Jays dropped him right into Double-A to begin 2021, his first professional season, and it hasn’t looked like he’s missed a beat. In 250 plate appearances, Martin has posted a .281/.424/.383 with a pair of homers, ten doubles, two triples and nine stolen bases. He’s walked at a hearty 14.8 percent clip against a 21.2 percent strikeout rate. That batting line is 32 percent better than league average in an immensely pitcher-friendly Double-A environment, by measure of wRC+.
The main question on Martin is simply one of where he’ll play. He’s split his time evenly between shortstop and center field in Double-A this season. At the time of the draft, some scouts questioned whether he could stick at shortstop in pro ball, but the Jays have been giving him that chance. Even if shortstop isn’t his ultimate home on the diamond, however, most scouting reports on the 22-year-old Martin agree that his athleticism will translate to third base, center field or second base. The general expectation surrounding Martin is that he’ll be an above-average regular regardless of where he settles in on the diamond.
Woods Richardson has had a rougher season as Martin’s teammate in Double-A, but he’s only 20 years old — nearly five years younger than the average age of his competitors at that level. He entered the season widely regarded as a top 100 prospect, and while he’s since dropped off Baseball America’s list following the draft, he still ranks 49th at FanGraphs and 68th at MLB.com.
The Jays initially acquired Woods Richardson from the Mets in the trade that send Marcus Stroman to Queens. He’s made 11 starts in New Hampshire this season and posted a grisly 5.76 ERA, although that number is inflated by a .359 average on balls in play and an abnormally low 58 percent strand rate. Woods-Richardson has walked too many hitters (12.8 percent) but also fanned a third of his opponents so far on the year. Woods Richardson is away from the club right now, pitching for Team USA in the Olympics (as is fellow newly acquired Twins pitching prospect Joe Ryan).
FanGraphs’ Eric Longenhagen writes that Woods Richardson works with both a four-seamer and a two-seamer, also praising the righty’s changeup and the shape of his curveball. MLB.com’s report praised Woods Richardson’s changeup as the best in Toronto’s system, and the general consensus on the right-hander is that if he can add a little velocity as he continues to fill out, he has the makings of a No. 2 or No. 3 starter.
It’s an impressive haul for the Twins, though the organization has to be disappointed that the season came to this. Minnesota entered the year as defending AL Central champs and hopeful contenders, but their season spiraled out of control early and has yet to recover. That’s prompted the front office to pivot to what certainly looks like it’ll be an accelerated retooling of the roster.
The Twins still have an impressive crop of controllable hitters, and the additions of Martin, Woods Richardson, Ryan and Drew Strotman in their first two trades of deadline season give them four upper-minors talents who could impact the club by 2022 (perhaps 2023, in Woods Richardson’s case). Parting with Berrios means bidding adieu to the best pitcher the organization has developed in more than a decade, but they’ll hope that the recent influx of talent quickly supplements their foundation of young hitters and produces another arm or two of Berrios’ caliber before long.
Oh daddy wow
Wow, I thought Berrios was going to play for the San Diego Padres. Preller what is happening? The super team just keep improving.
He will panic and sign another second baseman I bet
As a Dodgers fan there is nothing that makes me happier than seeing the Padres miss out on all the top players (at least so far…)
How are the Twins going to avoid a full rebuild? The only starter they have coming back next year (at least so far, the day is young) is Kenta Maeda. Their rotation will be atrocious next year. Plus the likely loss of Buxton. How do they avoid full rebuild mode? Plus, these prospects are not major-league-ready. Is this a sign of things to come?
Wow finally Buffalo’s Finest get a top notch pitcher! @markorock68- must be very happy? But did you give up too much for him though? Lmk. Hope all is well.
Its ok, the Twins will sign Kershaw, Scherzer, Bauer and Greinke to fill out the rotation. Problem solved.
Going well thanks , yes excited but hoping there is a bit more coming our way . Didnt you hear as of today no more Buffalo . Big moves for both teams past 24 hours.
It sure makes it easy when you can bully the rest of the league with the game’s highest payroll.
Pitching is a huge problem in MN. Injuries have plagued them on the position player side this year but the pitching has been bad for a long time. I think the core group is there still. Just need to be healthy and start again next year. They absolutely need to reverse course and spend money on top pitching.
As a Padres fan nothing makes me happier than Dodgers fans who just won a championship and had a great trade deadline focusing on our failure instead of their own accomplishments. It’s almost impressive how small that is.
Like Buxton is a big loss. As good as he is, he doesn’t stay healthy. Twins should rebuild and actually develop sustainable talent.
@MarcoRock68- that’s awesome going back to Toronto. Congratulations, nothing like playing and being back home, hopefully everyone stays healthy. Yes, both the Yankees and the Blue Jays made some really nice moves. Good luck the rest of the way. Take care.
Preller can’t come to the phone right now…he’s in on the bathroom floor, shaking in the fetal position.
Here’s to hoping the dodgers choke circa 2019
What a god awful trade for the jays. Of course you’ll read here it’s a great trade for the jays because fans don’t understand how to win. They think whichever team gets the best player wins the trade every time when in reality it’s rarely the case.
I mean the list of prospects who never amount to anything is very long. I agree it’s a steep price but let’s not pretend that it’s an automatic win for the twins
They have a stacked system and are in it to win it now, with a nice window based on the current roster. I’m a twins fan and a baseball fan, this was a great move by Toronto. It shows they’re serious right now, and Jose is a great player and teammate.
Not saying I would have done this deal, but it does seem to be about market rate.
As a Jays fan it’s too much I wanted them to only include 1 of Martin, Grohsans and woods not 2. If Berrios doesn’t sign an extension as part of this I will not be happy
Preller really s*** the bed. Imagine thinking gore is worth keeping over max scherzer and trea Turner
What was the offer from the Padres and the ask from the Nats in the Scherzer talks? I haven’t seen any names? Where did you see that Gore was the difference?
@Murphy NFLD
If the Jays win a World Championship, I imagine that’ll console you to some degree.
I haven’t seen anything to assume Turner was even on Preller’s radar. That was a complete surprise to me when it came up for the Dodgers. I agree that Preller is feeling…discomfort at this point, especially now with Berrios off the table. I think Preller thought he had Scherzer and Friedman, with the rich owners giving him the green light, just decided to swoop in in and crush the Padres. It was a good move for the Dodgers regardless of the divisional race, but keeping the Padres down is a significant bonus. The Padres are a threat. Very good team and this move for the Dodgers, (if it gets completed) would be huge on multiple levels. I say “if” because the past 24 hours have made me skeptical about anything regarding trade rumors until they are final.
No reports indicated Turner was part of the negotiations for Scherzer the Padres, especially since they just acquired Adam Frazier.
Sounds like the Nationals leveraged combining Scherzer and Turner to increase the quality of the return from the dodgers since they just sent two top 50 prospects and might be taking on all the deferred money owed to Scherzer (can’t imagine why its held up being announced unless they’re still talking about his deferred money).
The extra yr of Berrios ctrl w what Tor has already built up there,can stomach high draft capital imo ofc.This AL wild card race is going to be wild.Tor plays Ny 7x in Sept.
So the team that gets the worst players wins? That’s quite an insight.
I think it’s a little extreme to be calling this a God awful trade for the Jays. Everyone knows to get quality you have to trade quality. And while Martin is a premium prospect, he’s exactly just that right now, a prospect. There are plenty of prospects in baseballs history that never pan out the way they’re predicted to. Berrios is a proven MLB commodity. So for the short term, Blue Jays win hands down. The long term winner will all depend on if the Jays make the post season and how far they go and how Martin and Woods Richardson will develop.
This is huge for the Jays
Truly is but Simeon woods Richardson is a heckuva price. Dagnabit MN wouldn’t take Groshans instead.
Groshans has the same ceiling and is closer.
Posted before knew Martin was packaged as well. Was initially referring to Groshans rather than SWR.
This is a steep price – not sure if it’s high or low yet, just steep.
And he plays third.
Never pitched an inning in the pros. Prospects are no sure thing and when you can get a young difference maker like Berrios, you roll the dice. I wish Cashman had the balls to do this kind of deal, but time and again he passes and settles for middling turds like JA Happ or a deep bullpen (neither of which has worked out at all) instead.
Yeah sure, until Cash has to include Jasson Dominguez in those kind of deals, then the whining about trading homegrown players for turds.
Ok Yankee apologist- in case Yankee fans forgot, winning championships & getting into playoffs take PITCHING & DEFENSE. Adding more bats isn’t gonna work- ask the Angels how well that works out. I will watch the Yanks not make the playoffs with a smile on my face.
Berrios running from Sheets to another division!
Yeah, getting traded is synonymous with running away. You continue to impress, ChiSox_Fan.
SWR Really LOL Mets
Mets don’t need to give up top prospects. They can win a bad division this year and hope for the best, but really they’re in a good place now to compete for 5 years or so. Why risk that? They just need rental backend pitching. Davies. Gibson. That gets them the division.
Coasting into the postseason winning a cake division is a sound strategy I guess.
Mutts aren’t winning the division. Atlanta by 2.5 games.
Is stroman not their best starter this year ? Besides when degrom is healthy
Yes he is, especially since Taijuan Walker has been complete and utter garbage as of late (1-3 with a 7.18 ERA and 1.63 WHIP in his last 7 games).
Still no championship for them rays beat them out
Helps for next year too
92-93…. back 2 back….
Hot damn!
Nice!
The crazy SoB, he actually did it
Jurassic park baby
Life finds a way
They were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
Well that escalated quickly
Solid move
good for Jays!
Excellent move for the Jays
SWR – that’s gonna come back to hurt the Jays. Better hope we make the playoffs and we can extend Berrios!
He’s also signed thru next year (arbitration).
Berrios has already stated his intent to go to free agency. So this is likely something TOR gets to enjoy thru the 2022 season. Good get tho.
Maybe. But 6 years ago we were all talking about how much trading the great Jeff Hoffman would hurt.
Padres front office in shambles. Snell and Darvish won’t get it done folks
Pads better hope that Musgrove continues to right the ship, that Darvish can pitch like he did the first half of the season, that Weathers can continue to grow as a pitcher, that Snell has a complete reawakening, and that Paddack continues to only give up three runs per six innings.
More and more Preller and the Padres in general remind me of the lyrics for the song “Swinging on a Star.”
Good. Jays are the perfect team to trade prospects for guys with 1.5 years of control. Their window is open, but no need to go all in for 2021.
Not too familiar with the prospects, how are they?
Both project to be every day players with high ceilings
Not gunna lie, losing SWR hurts a bit
Like our 2 best prospects. I could understand one of these two but both of them. Shatkins must be out of their minds. Horrible for the Jays.
How is it horrible?
It’s considerably more than what they got back for Stroman, who was in a similar position to Berrios
That’s it.
SWR was one of the players they got for Stroman. But Martin is a much much better prospect than Anthony Kay was. Arguably he best prospect in last years draft.
Heavy price to pay for 1.5 years of Berrios with this year looking likely to end without a playoff spot.
It does feel like an overpay. But I suppose that’s what is going to happen if you want a guy for 2022 as well.
Overall, I think Martin will work out nicely for the Twins. SWR has shown a bit of regression, so I guess we’ll see how he does.
OK, now to scan the comments to see how much Shatkins haters are flipping out over this.
.
yea, SWR is a tough loss but not a sure bet like all prospects (ie Pearson, hoffman). Martin has a high ceiling, hits for contact but lacks power, also is meh in the field right now. Big pay for a big haul. Jays desperstely needed another pitcher for next year and the FA market is thin
What are they doing?!?!? There’s a bunch of big overweight home run hitters out there. Pitching?
At least there’s an organization that gets it. Go Jays.
one million % on the money
SWR and Martin is a big return. But this is beyond just this year, should be a fun finish to the year
what??? martin. are you kidding me???
Jays traded half of Stroman for Berrios lol
Wait what – SWR and Martin – total overpay. Minnesota just raked the Jays. Horrible trade for Toronto.
Are you a major league or minor league fan?
TO just bought an ace with team control and at minimum a high comp pick if he leaves.
This is a great trade.
Nah, it’s definitely an overpay. Martin for Berrios alone would have been questionable. SWR and 2-3 more decent prospects should have gotten it done.
PADRES GOT BLUE BALLS AGAIN HOLY CRAPPPPPPP
its still isn’t funny when you use caps lock. wierd..
WHAT’S NOT FUNNY ABOUT CAPS LOCK!?!?!?!?!
THIS PERSON GOT CAPS LOCK FOR A USERNAME, MISSING AN ELLIPSIS, AND TRYING TO BE THE JUDGE OF WHAT IS FUNNY OR WEIRD,
GET REAL YOU KNOCKOFF YANKOVIC!
HBan22 GETS IT!!!
***Full on attempting a hilarious joke, it is terrible, I know, apologies to anyone unlucky enough to read this. Enjoy the rest of your day. Go Jays.***
I was really happy for about 5 seconds then they dropped Austin Martin and Im dead
Could be Austin Martin too
The top pitching prospect with a 5.8 ERA in AA.
Teams don’t measure performance using ERA.
If he had a 1.8 ERA instead of a 5.8 ERA, this trade doesn’t happen. Period.
Sam… you’re wrong as ERA is rarely considered as a measurement these days. kinda like using a sundial to tell time- it sorta works but there are far more accurate ways to measure.
The only person who had anything to say about how teams use or don’t use ERA to measure performance was refereemn77. Never participated in any such argument.
What I am saying however, is that regardless of whatever advanced stats either corroborate or don’t corroborate his high ERA, the Jays would not have traded him if his ERA did not reflect his overall performance.
Also 20 years old and has a k/9 of 13. He’s not a finished product but those numbers suggest there’s lots of talent there.
Not sure how I feel about giving up Austin martin
Wow! If you’re a Seattle fan, can you imagine sending Kelenic and George Kirby (similar rankings) for 1+ years of Berrios? I applaud Dipoto’s restraint here.
I never thought the M’s were serious contenders in this one. The price was always going to be too steep. I’m glad Jerry held back on this one too.
Did you see Kelenic play this year? I would be thrilled to turn him into an ace. Berrios is a proven ace in the league. Prospects are nothing more than names on a page until they prove themselves.
Most times when you have multiple prospects being traded for an ace, the team getting the ace wins. Remember when Kyle Drabek + others was traded for Roy Halladay? How about when Justin Smoak was traded for Cliff Lee?
Sure it can bite you like in the case of Erik Bedard to the Mariners. Or it can be a win-win like Zack Greinke to the Brewers. But for the most part the team getting the ace rarely regrets it.
Yeah, Mariners can just continue to suck and not make the playoffs literally every year over a couple prospects who might never pan out. Dipoto is god awful at his job.
Austin Martin and Simeon Woods Richardson… wow. Talk about a massive W for the Twins.
Just names on a page bud. Just names on a page.
Really good trade. Both teams win imo. Toronto can also get a comp pick back depending on how the next labor agreement shakes out.
Is Berrios more valuable than Turner? I think the twins got a better return than Washington.
I would think so, there are plenty of available SS’s this winter and Turner is also at double the money of Berrios
So I’d say in terms of trade value Berrios is more valuable
Plus Scherzer.
Yes,Berrios is “more valuable” than Trea Turner, especially for the Blue Jays who don’t need (another) SS but they do “NEED” another #1/#2 SP.
Controllable young pitching is king in trade value.
The Twins didn’t come close to getting a better return than Washington. Gray is only slightly less caliber than SWR and that’s based on rankings only. Meanwhile, Ruiz is hands down the best prospect involved in either trade because he’s a catcher that mashes from both sides of the plate and will be above average defensively.
Think about how many teams don’t have even decent production from the catcher position…that’s why the Nationals pulled the trigger and why it still hurts for Dodgers fans, even getting Scherzer and Turner.
Plus, the Nats also got a guy that could become a solid reliever and a guy that could become a solid 4th outfielder.
SWR isn’t even in the most recent professional top 100 list.. he’s sliding.. He’s not close to Gray.. and Gray is MLB ready..
The other guys Nats got should also be in the majors soon.
The Twins have two good catchers on the mlb roster right now, and lots of corner of’s, Ruizs other possible spot. So it’s relative to a teams needs also. So for them, Martin is far superior. Do your homework.
SWR and Austin Martin? What?
SWR and Martin? There’s gotta be more than just Berrios coming then.
Oh didn’t consider that. PLEASE tell me there’s more coming back.
Hopefully more going to the Jays. If not it is an overpay. Martin straight up is worth Berrios.
He’s a #2-3 level of starter, having a great season at 27 so there’s a good chance he’s trending up. The Jays gave up a lot but they got a lot. Martin alone wouldn’t have gotten it done.
MarkoRock68: What on earth are you talking about? Austin Martin hasn’t played a full season in the MINORS and you think he’s worth the same as an ESTABLISHED Top Of Rotation (TOR) arm like Berrios? Berrios,who is NOT a rental, he’s under control for next year as well. Could this EVENTUALLY become a “win” for Minnesota? Yes. However if Toronto gets to (wins) the World Series, it’d be worth for them.
Man I hope so. That’s a big price to pay.
I was hoping we could get him for SWR, Otto Lopez and Santiago Espinal. Guess I was off a bit on that one. Lol
Quite the haul for Minnesota
Let’s go!!!!!! Not sure if it’s too late for the jays to come back this year, but next year we’re making a push!
jays need pitching.
But what have I learned over the past couple days? “A deal in place” means nothing anymore lol. Hoping the Rays swoop in…what a disaster this deadline has been (yeah, Cruz is great and all, but pitching.)
Do you really, if this is the price?
So confused that the Rays followed Cruz with trading away Hill and Castillo. At a glance, doesn’t make sense? Need to dive deeper, not sure I’ll find time to be honest! What in the Devil got in to those Rays! They still seem to find a way, consistently impressive.
NOOOO!!!! Anyone but Austin Martin. do they not see that of all the prospects they have only Martin has the “potential” to be be in the Stratosphere of Tatis Jr. Vlad Jr., Acuna Jr..
I don’t care what they are getting they will not have the potential of Martin. Hope they change this deal.
Jays got fleeced
nah brah, his ceiling is ain’t that high.
I don’t know about that… but he’s certainly a great prospect. He doesn’t have the power to compete at those levels though. More of a contact compete for a batting title guy.
Oh yeah sure. That guy with a full 3 months of organized pro baseball should be considered the face of baseball in 5 years. All prospects always reach their ceilings and every one has always become a superstar. Man some baseball fans are just out there.
Wow. Twins get deal you dream about. Textbook haul.
feels like the first trade deadline where preller was outbid on a few different occasions. kinda shiddy to have a trade deadline end like this for us padres fans….
He wasn’t necessarily outbid on Scherzer, it could be that Max preferred LA to SD.
right, outbid might not have been the best word but i was somewhat considering preller not landing gallo as well, or if he misses on kimbrel which is a possibility too even though there hasn’t been as much traction like the others
it just usually seems like preller gets his guys regardless. last couple days have seen a few uncharacteristic whiffs. it’s a bummer but it’s not as if the padres can’t still play good baseball down the stretch. but the reinforcements would have been really helpful
I can understand that, but if this is the price on Berrios, did you really want the Padres giving up that much talent to add another starting pitcher who has minimal team control?
Do they want to win now or be building for an eternity? If you’re scared to trade prospects blocked by established major league talent, you’ll never be better than LA or SF. Another fan who over values the unknown versus the known.
@harry
who are you replying to?
What prospects that are blocked by established ML talent do you think the Padres would give up that = what the Jays just gave up?
If you think this trade would make them better than LA or SF (at least this year), you are over rating the padres’ roster.
Noooooo! SWR is way too valuable! Pearson over him. 14 months of Berrios for 7 years of SWR? @$&# hate this for the Jays. SWR is incredibly talented and can be in your rotation next year. God almighty.
SWR’s value has dropped because he’s having a very poor year. So the current value isn’t surprising, but selling at a time of low value is, unless the blue jays think he’s not as good as they once thought
That is a crazy price for the blue jays imo. Austin Martin is gonna be a star! Good job twins.
Wow – Nationals got two top 50 guys for Scherzer + Turner (with, admittedly, some throw ins), Twins get two top 50 guys for just Berrios. Loving what the Twins are doing this trade season.
SWR isn’t even top 100 in BAs new update.. his value is in question
Fangraphs has him at 48, which is actually higher than Martin strangely enough.
His cumulative ranking by all sites is still 50-60 range. Cherry picking one sites rankings is fun though, I guess.
The question at the end of today is who, if any among the contenders, increases team W/L% from this point on, attributable to deadline acquisitions.
Prior to this, my thought was Yanks win an extra game or 2 because of Rizzo, Dodgers win an extra few because of Max’ pitching, and the BETTER pitching from other starters to do him one better.
THIS, though, counters Yankees, IMO, and Jays gun for wild card slot, rather than Yankees.
Tho obvs I have NO idea what will ACTUALLY happen in this future.
Take Woods Richardson, hasnt. done great when on the roster. Impressed by Atkins so far, anything more is bonus.
Yes I know hes from the Mets. but kudos to our farm system continually producing talent.
Jesus, that’s a steep price to pay, even though they have him next season, hardly ever see teams give up multiple top 5 prospects anymore. Shades of the Chris Archer deal.
twins fleece
As a Jays fan, I hate giving up Martin. I was thrilled when he fell to #5 & we drafted him. I feel like we will regret trading him in a few years
Glad the Sox didn’t pay that premium. Not even sure they have a position player comparable to Martin to make that move. Like the return for the Twinkies
And just like that. The Yankees finish in 4th place lol.
That’s my thought on this.
Twins won this trade easily
Hell of a return for them
Gonna wait until it’s fully announced. Richardson and Martin for Berrios doesn’t sound right at all.
Buxton too?
Yeah you add Buxton I think that’s about right.
wondering if a bullpen piece is also going to TOR.
Yeah. SWRs value is down though. Hasn’t had a great year.
But yeah. I’m expecting to see a bit more coming to the Jays. Maybe a controllable bullpen arm. Or a lower level prospect.
huge overpay by the Blue Jays!! wowww
Trading Austin Martin is absolutely insane and so bad. They traded similar prospect capital than the Dodgers who are getting Max and Trea.
SWR dropped out of BAs new top 100.. his value isn’t peak anymore.. I do really like Martin..
Controllable young pitching is king after all.
wow that’s costly
So happy the Ms didn’t give up that much for him. I like him as a pitcher but I like my 1-6 prospects much more.
And there it is….the overpay that is going to look bad in retrospect. Berrios is a solid 3ish but more likely a 4. Giving up both of those guys is tough, but they are at least being aggressive and making it Win Now. I really like SWR as a prospect, which was why I disliked moving him when the Mets did it, but I understand why they did it.
How did Minnesota pull off that haul!?
WTF? I take back every good word I ever said about Atkins. SWR alone is too much for Berrios. Adding Martin is just beyond stupid.
SWR does not get you 1.5 years of a cheap, proven #2 starter.
Hopefully there is more coming back from the twins tho
Frank it is a big overpay, so was Riley for Hand, but they got it done. Now they have a shot at winning..
FYI, my thought is SWR doesn’t even make the big leagues as a starter, that was a terrible trade with the Mets. However, Martin is elite. That one is gonna hurt long-term.
As a twins fan… I’m waiting for the hammer to fall to figure out why we are actually getting back decent pieces in return lol.
Having said that, Richardson plummeted out of the baseball America mid season top 100 because he’s having a rough year, but Martin went UP. And I’m not sure where that puts Royce Lewis.
Lewis and Martin seem similar as top draft picks who are supposed to be able to play up the middle, and are maybe maybe kinda shortstops, but don’t have clear positions yet. It should be interesting to see what the Twins do with them both.
Martin & Lewis, I must be old
Maybe the Twins are including Lewis in the deal. It doesn’t add up so far.
I think including Lewis would make this an overpay in the other direction
NOT happy about this trade, no way Berrios is worth that much.
LOL! Poor Padres….always the bridesmaid, never the bride. How are you trusting Preller now? HAHAHAHAHA!
I just watched Martin play last week for the Fisher Cats. He’s going to do great out in Minnesota. Going to be a fun AL East race!
This would explain why there have been jays aren’t as high an Austin Martin as they used to be articles and rooters out recently. Prepping the base.
Read/heard that the power has been nonexistent this year and he was starting to profile as a “good” utility guy…
Seemed like an easy player to be a fan of and had a great attitude about Toronto, hopefully Kepler is squeezed in somehow.
Yea if Gurriel and Kepler are included that would be nice
My Nats got hosed. This is better return for than what Turner should have gotten straight up. Much less a first ballot HOFer on top of it.
The Bluejays regret moving Zach Wheeler back in the day, and they are going to experience similar regret moving SWR. As a baseball fan, I love the aggressiveness though.
Lol….Syndergaard, you mean? Who was dealt for a 38 year old knuckleballer….not a 27 year old who can be re-signed and align with you competition window.
Real hard for the Jays to regret Wheeler they never had him . Wrong Mets pitcher.
I can’t believe how many people on here just whine and complain about EVERYTHING.
Poor Padres
Unless Rogers is being thrown in too, this is a bit of an overspend.
Considering just a couple years ago, a likekind pitcher in Stroman was dealt for SWR + Kay.
Did stroman have 1.5 years? I can’t remember how much term he came with
As good as Berrios is, and as much as the Jays needed to add a quality starting pitcher, Berrios is only controled for one more season. That makes the price an overpay unless they are able to resign him (and/or unless there’s another piece coming over from Minny).
And he’s finally out of the AL Central in fact he was actually scheduled to pitch tonight for the twins against their opponent but now the twins will have to find someone else to take that spot. I seriously doubt he’ll already be in the Blue Jays rotation this weekend, (that’s where the Royals are headed this weekend). So, hopefully the Royals are now never going to have to face him again until next year.
This is the first time in a while I can say it’s a sellers market. 2016 is the last deadline where teams were constistently giving away multiple top ten prospects. Maybe I just feel that way bc AA from my tigers has been giving away HOFers for 16 year old nobody’s for years.
Woods Richardson and Austin Martin. Nice return for Minnesota.
Good for the Jays. Yankees and Redsox went and got hitters. Jays beefing up the rotation. Should be a fun final 2 months watching them and the Rays.
Berrios is 9-9 lifetime against the AL East (2 of those wins are sgainst Toronto). 6-0 against the Orioles and 0-5 against the Red Sox. So a fairly mixed bag of results. Hard to say how much Berrios pushes the needle for the Blue Jays
We don’t play the Red Sox much down the stretch!
Berrios has a history of running out of gas in the second half.
Career numbers before the all-star break: 3.65 ERA, 1.108 WHIP
Career numbers after the all-star break: 4.77 ERA, 1.409 WHIP
August: 5.57 ERA and 1.526 WHIP in 135.2 innings.
I like what Minnesota got in return. Two live prospects for a guy who is ready to go south if patterns hold. If either guy pans out, the Twins did well.
Cey, SWR is MEh, terrible deal for the Jays from the Mets. However Martin is elite. He will pan out for Minn.
The Jays overpaid but they got it done.
Man. Even when the Twins are bad and they sell, they still scare me. Good haul for Cruz, absolutely insane haul for Berríos.
Blue Jays lmao! Wow they over paid but still they ain’t making the post season, what a waste.
Jays better win the World Series in 21 or 22 because that return is asinine.
So the Padres need to get on the horn with the Rangers to try and get Gibson & Kennedy or pivot with the Twins to try to get Maeda and Rogers? If they can’t get the #1 they were looking for, an innings eater and another addition to the pen will have to do.
Padres have a few option in addition to those
go get Morton, Martin, and take a chance on someone like Kyle Wright as a reclamation project.
go after Davies and Winkler from the cubs
go get Gray and a RP elsewhere.
With Braves brining in Rosario and Duvall just now, doubt they will be selling.
Blue Jays got fleeced
I hope that this goes better than Michael Young for Esteban Loaiza
Yeah it would be much better that it turn into Kyle Drabek for Roy Halladay.
Jeff Kent for David Cone!
People are acting like the prospects are already stars. They aren’t now and may never be. Don’t overvalue prospects.
Good trade for both sides. Martins gonna be a stud
As a Rays fan i say thanks for keeping him away from the sox or yankees. But what they thinking? They need to go 40-20 and expect the rays AND sox to play 500 ball in order to make playoffs. And dont forget the yankess
Exactly what they thinking!
Really just need one of Rays, Sox, or Athletics to fall off.
Plus finish a bit better than Yanks and Mariners.
Difficult, not impossible!
40-20 would be the sweet starting point.
Ryu and Ray have pitched very well. Berrios, plus two of Manoah/Matz/Stripling down the stretch could go 40-20 or 20-40, gonna be fun. Need a few bats to wake up and the offense could help make it a bit easier. The bullpen is looking major league now. There’s some hope brewing and a ‘montage’ type stretch on the way, feel it.
Kudos Rays fan. Hate/love watching the Rays when they play the Jays. Regular season only, playoff matchup was mostly just sadness.
Mrs
Being a Rays fan you likely dont know this but at the 2015 deadline the Jays were 6 out. The Jays run differential suggests they should have 6 more wins now. With a weak schedule for the remainder of the season claiming the a Wild card is well within the realm of possibility.
That’s a great trade for Toronto. 2022 they are a force.
It was a major over pay for a team that wont make the playoffs. Reminds me of the infamous deal pirates/rays Glasnow, meadows, and Baz for Archer. But as a Rays fan thanks for keeping him from the Sox and Yankees
Reminds me more of the Jeff Kent for David Cone deal.
Who cares what you give up if it gets you a WS title.
Rays are a shoo-in for playoffs right now?
Athletics?
What makes you so certain Rays fan?
As a Jays fan, thanks for refusing to sign Morton.
The Red Sox and Yankees get it. Jays are starting to get it again. Really wish the Red Sox would spend a bunch of decades forgetting again. But right now, this battle is going to be fun. Jays finished 8th last year. Made a ‘playoff’. Fighting for a spot 5-7th this year and a strong core building up to battle for top 5 next year.
Enjoy your time at top for now Rays fan. Not gonna be a cakewalk to stay up there. Another team finally back in the mix.
Just realized SWR is on the Olympic team. Kinda crazy to get traded when you’re out playing in the Olympics. Can’t imagine too many guys can say that.
It’s also 2AM in Tokyo
I believe the TWO players the Twins got from he Rays for Cruz are both in the Olympics as well.
one of them pitched against Israel in opening win.
Yes he struck out 2 accountants and an investment banker
Only one pitcher we got from the Rays is in the Olympics. Joe Ryan and he had a great start and win for team USA today.
Glad Mets didn’t match that!
Could they have even matched ? Lol
Okay here’s my thoughts.
I really like Berrios, he will fit in well with the team and moving either Matz or Stripling to the pen will also be a boost for this year.
This was a premium price to pay though, but let’s not forget twins didn’t need to trade him so it was going to take them winning the deal to make it happen.
Also;
– Perhaps scared of SWR’s lack of progress and figure Manoah was already better
– Worried about Martins lack of power and a set position (blocked by Bo and Springer)
– Trust in Groshans , Orelvis monoah and to a lesser extent Pearson
The farm is still good but the jays need to play well and be a legit WS contender next year to make this deal seem even
Agreed on all of this. SWR isn’t as can’t miss as most people think…. But he’s still a great prospect. And Martins lack of power is a concern…. But he’s a consensus top 20 prospect in baseball for a reason. Bat to ball skills are off the charts.
Making this trade means next year better be a competitive one. With Ray and Semien heading to free agency the Jays better be ready to spend there too if they want this trade to be worth it.
Maybe that is why they were comfortable moving Martin, they plan on extending Semien. Now bring up Smith for a good look so we know what our off season need at 3b will or will not be.
MarkoRock68, No concern re Berrios’ awful second-half numbers? This is when he usually goes south.
He’s nearly doubled his IP before the all star game vs after so the stats aren’t even.
However that doesn’t dismiss your running out of gas comment.
They move from awful to bad when you factor the dread that was his rookie second half stats. Fun with numbers. Robbie Ray has some pretty concerning stats in that timeframe too, but he has earned some major trust with his recent renaissance.
Any career stats for Berrios will probably look poor considering he is having a career season. Finally blossoming would be the hope but you do bring up a fair area of concern. Maybe he’s not built for the full grind.
He does always make his turn in the rotation. Not very common. He’s 27 now, might be ready to build on this career season.
Impossible to not try to compare, but one point, adding here, but probably a better fit elsewhere…. anyway, Stroman had missed a season and a half due to injury in his career at time of trade and was just coming off a shoulder/pectoral scare prior to that, which makes it difficult to truly compare the returns of two pitchers in similar contract status. One only missed a half season due to there being a short season. Some minor reasons to let this trade grow on us as Jays’ fans.
Pete Walker seems to work wonders with some starting pitchers. Plus Berrios might just be on an upswing coming into his prime. Not like he is 35.
I would say they need to back this trade up with landing Kimbrel, if this is the trade to say ‘we’re here’ then we need to fill some other holes this/next year
Top closer, not quite Kimbrel, but in 2012 he wasn’t far off, Soria decent consolation!
I like the return for Minnesota but even if Toronto can’t re-sign berrios they’ll get a supplemental first round pick for him following next off season. That has value too.
This just proves that the Padres will trade all the organizational depth they have but simply will not trade the elite chips. If they fall short in the postseason, this fact will be why.
Can someone at MLBTradeRumors get the link to the correct Austin Martin in this story? The one being traded is playing in AA for Toronto, not this kid who is still in college that they have linked.
I thought the worse fleecing in a trade so far this year was the package that Tampa paid for Nelson Cruz. Atkins just laughed and said “hold my beer, let me show you what a real fleecing looks like’.
You’re being really irrational about this Frank.
Jays returning home and mgmt giving the players a huge vote of confidence like this. One of the easiest schedules over the last 2 months. Things should be interesting.
Damn, this return exceeds my expectation for developed talent. Now let’s ditch Kepler, Pineda, and Donaldson (for a bag of chips) and invest everything in pitching this off-season.
I heard the Jay’s asked about JD and he said no
Ugh I don’t know how many years Bertie is in control, but they have gave a lot in return
Link is the wrong Austin Martin btw.
Toronto gave too much ugh
Even trade. Seems like a lot because of the high prospect ratings but I think these guys are over ranked. SWR doesn’t look like top rotation and they haven’t figured out his control yet. Martin isn’t showing much power and we just seen what Adam Frazier brought back.
Wow… seems like they didn’t quite give up enough in my opinion. That said, why would the jays make this trade? The jays aren’t out of it, but my gosh to trade away some key farm pieces for a 1.5 year rental doesn’t make a lot of sense to me in their current position. Idk. Just me and my opinion.
Jays aren’t as young as you think. Ryu, Springer and Teoscar are old, and the youth is here now. The window is open and you can’t just stockpile prospects for next year. Gotta go for it at some point.
The emergence of Orelvis Martinez made this possible. Controllable top of the rotation pitching ain’t cheap.
And Espinal a bit? Working his way into the future plans a little bit more each week.
Berrios fades. Good pitcher as long as you have him in the front half of the year.
I posted his first-half/second-half splits elsewhere. I was surprised by all the interest in him. If either guy pans out, a big win for the Twins If both do, a fleecing. Berrios in those AL East ballparks in August and September. Yikes.
Gotta love the Dodgers fans who should be celebrating today instead focusing their energy on hating on preller and the Padres.
We’re capable of multitasking, don’t worry.
Great trade!
This is a an extra year of an ace and at minimum a high comp pick if he leaves.
They gave up some good prospects, but really not as much as I thought Minnesota would ask for. This is a steal.
Maybe, there is more to this trade.
Berrios is only an Ace if you use that term to describe the best pitcher on every single staff in baseball. He’s a 2 or a 3 on a good team.
And he’s behind Ryu and Ray in Toronto so he is a #3
You lose your ace status based on the rotation that you are in?
So I guess Scherzer is no longer an ace cause LA has Kershaw or vice versa?
This guy is a number one who would never have been available if Minnesota wasn’t 43-60.
He was doing what he did just this year on that terrible team.
Those prospects with all of their potential haven’t stepped foot on a mlb team and currently aren’t in a position to carry Berrios’s jock.
He’s an ace.
He’s a TOR pitcher but not an Ace. An Ace is elite. Berrios is very good, but not elite. I am a twins fan and been watching him for years. He will fit in nicely on the Jays as a #2. Like he was these last 2 seasons in MIN. But if you expect him to carry the team like an Ace can/does, you are gonna be disappointed.
I wish there was a sport to follow where players improved as they matured.
Scherzer was brought up above, wondering about his pre and post age 27 stats.
Excellent trade for both teams!
They are prospects, Berrios is established. Good move for my jays
That’s some really basic thinking. Prospects, though not established, still hold value. Many of them hold more value than players that are, “established”.
Yes, enough value to get an established player
No it’s not you have almost no chance to make the playoffs unless you think the soox and rays are gonna fall off a cliff and then you still have to worry about Oakland Seattle and the yankees
Dont look now but Rays best pitcher gone for rest of 21 and likely all of 22.
Should’ve kept Martin and gave up Biggio.
Jays may have offered him and Twins said no.
Something about those values doesn’t exactly add up.
Agreed I was waiting for another piece
I agree trade Biggio over Martin all day long.
No one wants Biggio.
I cannot believe the Mets could not have topped what the Blue Jays gave up for Berrios. They needed another pitcher desperately.
Could not have topped? Toronto gave up two really good prospects, one a pitcher and other has potential to be 4-6 WAR players for many years, tough deal to beat.
No, don’t think that would have gotten topped by a better offer
Berrios is a great pickup. The Jays are steadily moving forward.
How you just gave up 2 very good young players with almost no chance to make the playoffs this year that doesn’t make a lot of sense it’s like the infamous pirate raised deal where the pirates got Archer and the rays got glassnow meadows and and Shane baz
How many World Series did that trade end up getting for the Rays?
They’re not the Marlins. They might never play that game as good as the Marlins.
Being 2nd best at doing it is still truly quite impressive.
The Jays haven’t been top 2 in any way for decades.
But they’ve been best before. Pirates have as well. Won and lost trades are minor compared to won and lost titles.
Some of us Jays fans still remember those Championship years.
And a lot more saw highlights and re-broadcasts of those years during covid times before the shortened season begin.
We don’t care about building an impressive system at all times, there is a balance involved and sometimes a need to strike. That time is right now. Straight out of the Astroball blueprint that this regime seems to be following. This is the Jays version of the Verlander trade. The fans want unforgettable and one of the next three years really feeling like it could happen.
Best of luck Rays, truly sad to hear about Glasnow, next man up, as always. Four team race is for real!
This could end up being a bad trade for both teams. Berrios tends to tire in the second half of the season and the Yankees absolutely crush him. He is a good pitcher with amazing ball movement but he doesn’t seem to miss bats as much as I would expect with his ball movement and three (maybe 4) strong pitches. I guess the SS prospect will replace Lewis as their SS of the future and Lewis will move to 3B to replace Donaldson. I hate to see Berrios go–he reminded me of Pedro Martinez while not being the all-world pitcher that Pedro was most of his career.
4 days ago: Twins are “absolutely not” in a rebuild…
if you are out of the wild card and you get offers you can’t refuse or believe that players want to test free agency, why not trade them?
Well when someone is willing to make an offer you can’t refuse..
If you are a Blue Jays fan you have to be excited about this organization. They are pushing the AL East envelope and forcing the Rays and Yankees to keep up.
No one is forcing the Yankees to do anything. They do what is right for the Yankees without anyone else influencing them.
Martin for Berrios is a big overpay, so was Riley for Hand, but Shapiro and Atkins got it done. They put on the big boy pants. Now the BlueJays have a shot at winning..
FYI, my thought is SWR doesn’t even make the big leagues as a starter, that was a terrible trade with the Mets and Stroman. Good on the Jays to trade SWR. Been saying that for 2 years.
However, Martin is elite. That one is gonna hurt long-term.
Martin didn’t really have anywhere to play on the Jays – the middle infield and centre field are blocked for the foreseeable future.
Berrios with his age is a prime extension candidate as well.
He’s probably capable to play anywhere on the field…
Berrios is a great addition but Toronto gave up too much talent for 1.5 years. I guess Toronto not only has to pay more money to sign free agents, they also have to pay more in prospect value to get trades completed too. These two were cornerstone building blocks for the Blue Jays. Sure, you don’t know how they will fare in the majors but a Top 20 overall and Top 50 overall prospect is a very steep price to pay for 1.5 years of a solid #2 starter. He is not an ace by any means.
SWR is not a cornerstone building block for any club.
Martin is elite and that one will hurt for years.
Agreed, career 4.01 FIP.
Dorothy why would Toronto have to pay more in prospects than anyone else? I get the free agent thing with money but prospects? You make a trade, player has no say in if they want to go (unless they have no trade to that team) nor do they have the ability to control any amount their current team would receive in return, prospects or otherwise. Also other GMs would really not have any reason to command more from Toronto because of who they are.
So not sure where you were going with the “pay more in prospects” comment.
Not sure how much the Jays gave up, but this guy has a career 4.01 FIP. Not terrible but not an ace. I’m not sure this will help them down the stretch.
Other than Ryu and Ray, the Jays don’t have reliable experienced starters. Berrios will definitely help them. Now they have a shot at winning when they didn’t before acquiring Berrios and Brad Hand, Cimber and Richards.
I’d give the Jays Mgmt a ‘A’ for this years trade deadline.
It’s nice to see you being so optimistic
Sounds like Chatwood was designated to make room for Berrios.
Why Chatwood and not Castro or Jansen really does not make much sense.
Who cares
Makes no sense. I would be pissed to lose Martin for this if I were a fan
you’d be pissed off that your team is trying to win?
Holy crap….that is a HUGE price to pay. I understand Berrios is good and everything, but you’re giving up that much for a chance at a wild card and how many more years is Berrios signed for? Some of these deadline trades shock me with the meager return, and then some shock me for the haul received. Minnesota did pretty good here it seems
Ya the jays always giving up to much should at least been one more player coming for the twins. The other trades u see going on they are giving up nowhere near the same. Will hurt them down the road hope it pays off.
Just have to resign him plus ray now
Good acquisition Jays. Gave up a lot, but Toronto has to overpay to get premium talent to come North in offseason. So, the Jays take players hostage under current control or contract. Buhrele, Donaldson, Tulo…etc. It’s the Jays way.
2022 could be an all in year for Toronto. Wouldn’t be surprised by another big move beyond this year.
assume there are blue jay fans pissed off about this deal but this seems fair to me. be excited that your team is going for it!
No one should be pissed now. Be pissed in 4 years if anything
Interesting deal …. wouldn’t have mind to see Martin stay with us, and hold down 2B next to Bo for years to come.
Woods Richardson has a lot of talent, especially for his age. Jays gave up a lot to get Berrios imo. Two future mainstays for the twins imo.
But the Jays needed pitching though, they got it with Berrios. A durable arm, who will give the Jays some much needed help.
Me personally, I don’t think I would’ve done this deal..Only reason is because I doubt the Jays make the playoffs this season, I think they should’ve done their trading in the offseason. And trade the Biggio’s, and possibly Groshans of the world.
Trading Martin means Semien will probably be resigned, or Biggio, gets to mend 2B next year. And me personally I don’t want Biggio to start at 2B, defensively he’s not good enough imo.
Groshans may get a shot next year at some point to mend 3B? Who knows … can’t forget the Austin Martin is a Scott Boras client, and if he plays well early, which is very likely, we’ll be having to pay him more then the minimum he’d be under for his control years.
One thing I really like about this trade is that Berrios is still under control for next year.
A lot of things going on here, so excuse my erratic thoughts.
It’s definitely a win for the Jays in the present moment, going forward though, twins may have won this one. Time will tell.
As a jays fan the prospect look like they will pan out to be good players looking at them today. If they end up being that it is an over pay unless Berrios resigns. Wgeb i heard the trade went down i hoped they only included 1 of SWR, Martin and Groshans.
The same people complaining they gave up “too much” for Berríos are likely the same who said the trade return for Stroman (SWR+) wasn’t enough either. So obviously the return for Stroman was significant enough to use that capital to land one of the most coveted arms available on the market this year.
The Stroman return was fine. This package is bonkers.
Both Woods-Richardson and Austin Martin project to be better than Berrios.
Plus, they are cost-controlled for 14 years or something stupid. We definitely got played.
But I’m done losing sleep over Ross Atkins.
Whatever.
We got a guy…
As a Jays fan, I’m still reeling from this overpay. I would love to know if Shatkins let all 30 teams know that Martin and SWR were available for a controllable #2 SP.
If they were willing to do this deal July 30th, then why not make it six months ago? I
As disciplined as Shatkins have been, this feels like a panicky chips all in move, one year too early.
If they don’t resign Berrios and make the playoffs this AND next year, they will regret this deal. SWR’s stock has regressed a bit but Martin’s bat to ball skills are elite.
I’m so disappointed that I’m actually a bit sad.
I just KNOW those two prospects could have fetched a great starter with more years of control but we overpaid on a frenzied day. Total Shatkins panic move which is so unlike their usual corporate BS tone.
I’m not sure who represents Berrios but I’m trying to project what his 2023 FA contract will be (assuming health and career norm performance to date).
I’m thinking 5-6 years at 125-140 million (25 mill AAV ish?). If I were the Jays, I’d try to lock him down now but curious of others thoughts…
Twins tried to “lock him down”, he turned them down each time. I don’t know the years or dollar amounts, but obviously, he did not sign a long term contract.
He wants to change the market for the 2nd tier SP market. He’s a top of rotation SP, but not an ace and he wants to take that tier to the next level. Good luck locking him up to a team friendly deal.
When was the last time an ace with more years of control was traded?
I’d have to say Martin’s total lack of power with a wood bat so far is a little concerning for a 22 year old who should be fully filled out physically. If the power doesn’t show up his ceiling will be low, especially as he’s not a defense guy. And 2019 was the only year he showed any power in college.
Quintana for two top prospects perhaps?
Jimenez & Cease.
.
That’s similarish, but Quintana was having a bad season at the time of the trade (which turned out to be correctly indicative of his decline).
He did give a .500 team a nice boost which certainly helped them reach playoffs at time of trade. His CWS results going into the trade definitely didn’t seem to downgrade the return very much. Sign of how much teams tend to value a pitcher that makes every start in my opinion.
His following 2 years were ok. Would not be thrilled if Berrios trade ends up being similar in result to the Quintana trade. Hoping more for a Verlander type result. Really dreaming there. Mostly hoping he doesn’t break, as pitchers tend to do.
Go Jays!
Also, Quintana definitely never an ace.
Verlander might be the last Ace traded with multiple years remaining?
But if we’re gonna look for a lower case, ace, then Darvish isn’t a bad comp to Berrios. The higher price of the contract diminished the return, making it difficult to compare still.
Stroman, durability and attitude questions diminished the return as well.
Boston trade for Sale could be considered, but he’s more Ace.
Can Berrios take that next step is the biggest factor. Excited to watch.
The Jays are out of it this year so it’s essentially Martin and SWR for 1 year of Berrios. Terrible, terrible trade for the Jays
If you’re going to blow any top prospects you need at least 3 years of control for it to make any sense
The Jays have about 70-75 million coming off the books this year. Use that to extend or re-sign Ray-Berrios-Semien .
Position Players will be just about set with the exception of a lefty bat.
Rotation for next 2 years
Ray-Berrios-Ryu- Manoah plus maybe Pearson .
Pump payroll by $20 million and spend most of it on the Pen.
2022 payroll- 160-165million
Lopez-Groshans-Taylor-Moreno promoted to AAA
Smith- Capra AAA pushing in Spring Training for a Roster spot.
Move Bo to 2nd, Semien back to SS
Espy starting 3B , Biggio utility
If Biggio can restore the value he had in 2020 use him as trade bait for a young pitcher with control .
I think your summary is spot on. If ownership increases payroll by 15-20%, I think they aggressively try to resign both Semien and Ray. I don’t think they’ll move Bo off SS but I do agree that Espinal is starting to look like a viable 3B despite lacking the prototypical power. Although the clubhouse would hate it, moving Biggio for another arm could make sense although by dealing away Martin they probably don’t have a quality utility player left.
Again, I can support this trade only if they are able to resign Berrios or another ace type like Nola in the 2023 FA period.