Reports from earlier today indicated that Starling Marte rejected the Marlins’ offer of a three-year, $30MM contract extension, making it all the more likely that the outfielder would be dealt prior to the July 30 trade deadline. Contract negotiations are now over between the two sides, according to The Miami Herald’s Craig Mish (Twitter links), as Marte didn’t want the talks to become a distraction for him as the second half of the season progresses.
MLB Network’s Jon Heyman (via Twitter) adds the detail that the Marlins’ extension offer was greater than three years and $30MM, but regardless, it now seems that the team will focus on dealing Marte. As one might expect, Marte is already drawing interest from multiple suitors, as Heyman writes that the Astros, Phillies, and Yankees are three of the teams who have been in touch with the Marlins about the former All-Star.
Marte would be an upgrade for just about any team, considering his impressive .288/.387/.443 slash line, seven home runs over 249 plate appearances this season (though Statcast hints at some regression). In addition to his bat, the 32-year-old Marte also has 20 steals from 23 chances and he has displayed some impressive glovework in center field.
This is all music to the ears of outfield-needy teams like Houston, Philadelphia, and New York. The Astros have gotten very solid results both offensively and defensively from Myles Straw and Chas McCormick up the middle, but there is no doubt Marte would represent a big upgrade. For the Phillies and Yankees, center field has been a revolving door thanks to injuries.
In terms of contract, Marte is owed around $5.1MM of his original $12.5MM salary for the 2021 season. This adds another wrinkle to the trade market, as Marte’s three known suitors are all very close to exceeding the $210MM Competitive Balance Tax threshold. Marte alone could conceivably be added with a bit of maneuvering under the tax line, but that would eliminate pretty much all available payroll space for further trade needs like pitching.
Throughout the winter and into the season, the Yankees and Astros have in particular made several moves indicating that staying under the tax line (and avoiding an escalating repeater penalty) is a priority, though both Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner and Astros GM James Click recently stated that they would go over the CBT line in the right circumstance. The Phils have never exceeded the luxury tax line, but owner John Middleton has said in the past that he would also be willing to make a tax payment for a difference-making addition.
An argument can certainly be made that Marte is such an addition, though it is also possible that he could be acquired in a trade that wouldn’t require any CBT overage. The Marlins could be more willing to eat most or all of Marte’s salary if they were offered higher-caliber prospects, though then it becomes a question of just how much prospect value any of the three teams would want to surrender for a rental player. Marte could also be included as part of a larger trade package that might see multiple players swap clubs, with perhaps a larger contract sent back Miami’s way as some kind of salary offset.
Jeter will make sure the Evil Empire gets him for nothing.
That’s kind of a dumb statement. Jeter wants to do his own thing in Miami. I’m sure he and his associates want to get the best return possible. I do believe they are trying to build for the future to win and all so fans don’t lose interest.
I completely agree
I agree.
Except history proves otherwise; Jeter willingly provides sweat heart trades to the Yankees for pennies on the dollars.
What deals? The main one that comes to mind is of course Stanton and who can argue that he didn’t win that trade? Think long term and you understand why Jeter is unlikely to ever appear like a trade winner when giving up MLB stars.
Miami not taking on any of Stanton’s contract in that trade was a huge win for Miami, just sayin’.
What history? I’m sure you’re talking about the stanton trade which was a huge win for Miami. Look at the results Stanton’s provided in NY and the huge salary relief Miami got from making the deal.
@chiciry
What deals? Please provide a list or details of these supposed trades between NYY and MIA?
Why would jeter (part owner) trade away his assets and his value to help the trillion dollar yankees? Wouldnt Jeter want to create that type of team in Miami to cement his legacy even more? Worry about his own assets for his own family?
Except Miami actually paid $30MM on Stanton’s contract, just sayin’.
@ChiSoxCity
The only “sweet heart deal” under the Sherman/Jeter regime has been Stanton to the Yankees.
But you’re right, that’s one trade is a long history of pennies on the dollar deals by Jeter & Co to the Yankees.
Oh and the Caleb Smith & cooper trade which was clearly sweetheart deal for the Yankees by Jeter
Lol Jeter suckered the Yankees into taking Stanton , deal of the century for Jeter by getting out of that Stanton contract.
Sweetheart deals…..tell me, would you like the ChiSox to swing a trade for Stanton? That was a master stroke on his part!
Long history of trades? Sweetheart deal of Stanton to the Yankees? What are you talking about…what’s in the water there in ChiTown?
ChiSoxCity
Except history proves otherwise; Jeter willingly provides sweat heart trades to the Yankees for pennies on the dollars.
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ChiSox, you have like ten posters in here calling you an idiot. Aren’t you going to defend your statement?
First was headed to STL, the SF… ultimately the Yankees.
Jeter never gave the Yankees a sweetheart deal. He won the Stanton trade.
They paid part of the Stanton overpayment. He has been overall between a bust for the Yankees and or no difference-maker and not needed.
Well stated.
4 year have no shown it
this is mlb not minors
he trying to win. why trade zac gallen to dbacks?
lose interest. why give up on Christian Yelich? his contract with marlins did not end till 2022
.
What was wrong with the Gallen trade?
Mr Miami is going to do what’s best for him. Like he always does.
NYY gets him for nothing…??? Jeter delivered the Trojan Horse named Giancarlo to the Bronx and got $265MM off future payrolls for his age 28 through 38 years. He won an MVP in Miami, then they unloaded him and he’s been in decline ever since with a 4.4, 0.4, 0.6, 1.1 WAR seasons, respectively (kind of). He already has almost twice the amount of PA in 2021 as 2019 & 2020 combined, which is great, but he’s on pace for his worst WAR season (140 games or more). Who got who?
The only trade that looks bad in my opinion is the Yelich trade. The prospects they got back as been a total bust.
The NY Brewers I guess won that trade…
Realmuto trade was a win for the Phillies.
Alfaro is serviceable
Sixto Sanchez is only 22 but on July 5, 2021, Sánchez underwent season-ending surgery after an MRI revealed a small tear in the posterior capsule of his right shoulder.
He did not make an appearances for the Marlins organization in 2021 due to the injury.
How?? They traded Sixto for 2 years of JT. Sixto has played just a small part of 1 shortened season, and in terms of WAR, was just as valuable as JT was that year. 2020 Sixto = JT. Marlins have 6 more years of Sixto. Phillies still have JT, but signed him to a mega deal as a FA. Anything he does from here on out has nothing to do with that trade, as Sixto was the cost for just 2 yrs. Sixto will be 100% next yr and Marlins will walk away winning that trade over the next 6 yrs.
Sixto has a significant injury history that started in the Phillies minor league system. At this stage, it’s not unrealistic to think Sixto and Alfaro will never deliver what the Phils already got from Realmuto.
True. But that’s how prospects can turn out. They were not signing Yelich for 190 million. Not Yelich looks like he could also be a bust and an injury problem. Yelich was an ego trade. They should have held him and let him complain until they found a better deal.
decline ever since because of NYY.
soon as he got their they try change his swing and everything. make him just every day dh
Last time people said this Marlins got out from under stantons albatross contract that new york is now stuck paying him to be injured most of it.
I’m surprised people are still posting this opinion. That Stanton trade did not turn out well for the Yankees at all. I know he is threatening to produce something close to a full season at the moment, but the production the Yankees are getting is pretty far away from justifying that massive contract.
They also miss the fact that Jeter absolutely fleeced NYY for Caleb Smith and Garret Cooper. Smith had a nice half season which got us Matte. Cooper is still taking when he his healthy.
You forget that the Stanton trade allowed the yankees to get rid of Starlin Castro, who has turned out to be quite the subtraction.
ludafish
They also miss the fact that Jeter absolutely fleeced NYY for Caleb Smith and Garret Cooper.
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Then Marte to the NYY would be a full circle trade, since Miami sent Smith to AZ to obtain Marte.
what? no their was no spot for Garret Cooper in NYY . why he was traded. as i read ny post say.
fleeced NYY lol
Garret Cooper jeter took at time to help nny
I believe when players are injured, an insurance policy covers the salary; so, it really helps the Yankees in the bottom line, not the cap line. Overlooking the Joe factor in Phil is a mistake…
That’s a stupid comment
Jeter killed the Yanks in the Stanton trade. You think the Yanks are actually happy about that one?
Jeter did not killed the Yanks in the Stanton trade. . when marlins hade to pay cash and take a 2b that no one wanted to trade for. ..
Yanks are actually happy about that one? yes they was for fist year . and every yanks fan said and media . jeter gave yank a present. now you trying to turn this around . lol not buying it.
Stanton has been an absolute bust and the yanks regret every second of that trade. You are the one engaging in revisionist history.
Stanton is old. He gets older by the minute. He has a no-trade clause. He is a MEGA bust. They can only hope for DH in both leagues and try to get him into the outfield a little. Then they move him and pay a chunk of the salary. But the real question is who would want him. He is like fine blown glass. So fragile. Then you have Judge looking for 400 million. Now what?
Why say that? Jeter absolutely beat his old boss Cashman in the Stanton deal. I would expect the Marlins to demand a package starting with top Yankees prospects Florial and Peraza. And a desperate Cashman might actually say yes to that.
Simpletons still think the Yankees won the Stanton trade. Again the marlins got rid of a 200 mil commitment. They won the trade even if they got back 0 players.
Dream on. No way.
This guy still doesn’t realize Jeter WON the Stanton trade…
He was planted in south Florida by the Yankees to oversee their AAAA affiliate.
It’s amazing how many of you have no shame in showing how stupidly uniformed you are.
I am an Astros fan and will be very upset if the Astros acquire Marte.
Because … he’s a really good player? That’s an interesting argument.
He’s way overrated.
Because the Astros need pitching more.
I don’t see how the Astros are “outfield-needy”, their outfield is well above average. Of course it’s not the best in baseball (like their infield arguably is) but Brantley, Straw, and Tucker are very solid plus Chas McCormick has been great (and Yordan Alvarez also plays LF when he’s not the DH). The only need this team has is with their bullpen.
I’m sure Marte doesn’t want to be with that trash organization anyways
Awww. Are you angry?
You almost sound angry enough to punch a woman after choking her out, Trevor.
You guys were doing the same thing. Will be hilarious when Tyler starts airing LA’s dirty laundry like Fiers did with Houston.
Does he have a NTC? If he doesn’t, it really doesn’t matter too much where he wants to go.
I’m sure you speak for him.
What’s wrong with Marte? I have to assume it’s a personality thing not necessarily his production
I think it’s because the bullpen is probably a more important piece than an OF. Would be an upgrade for sure, but so tired of seeing the pen suck.
Modern baseball, a .288 hitter is ELITE!
Modern baseball: we look at more than batting average. Been doing this since forever actually.
maybe the PEDs?
Seth: He’s old and likely to decline quickly. Not a personality problem.
As an Astros fan, it’d be nice to acquire Marte and Bleier.
As a Marlins fan, I’d love to trade you Marte and Bleier for Korey Lee.
Even if they offered the entire farm system, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Note: Remember, the Yankees signed Carlos for 1 purpose once, yet to be disclosed what that 1 purpose was…
Dang, as a Marlins fan it’ll be sad to see him go, but can’t say I blame the Marlins for not wanting to pay him well into his 30s.
I understand that typically paying a guy a decent annual salary at 35 usually doesn’t pay off but we have to take into account he’s not typical he’s having an all around career year at 32. Some guys peak at different stages and while it’s not unheard of for a guy to just fall out all of a sudden it’s usually more gradual. I think 3 years at somewhere around the 40-45 range would be fine. His age kind of plays into the Marlins hands really. Young players having a year like Marte heading into free agency there could be a bit of a bidding war with the kind of contracts that could really hurt that entire team if it went wrong. But although I expect Marte to still have a couple really good years and one or so solid ones left his age does limit how far teams will go to get him. It’s kind of an opportunity on a guy that’s going to get capped a bit due to age and he wants to stay there’s an opportunity for the Marlins to perhaps finally sign a decent veteran player. All contracts have risk but I think he would sign for three years if it was closer to 15 a year and that kind of deal doesn’t haunt you even if the worst happens
$15 mil a year is a lot for the Marlins budget, especially depending how far along their rebuild they think they are.
Best thing for the Marlins to do is trade him to NY, then go after him in the offseason if they want him back. NY wont be re-signing him. Hicks will be back, and they wont want to go over the tax threshold. Kick in money for NY, get a couple good prospects back, Wells, Volpe, Pereira, etc, and then look at possibly matching a contract in the offseason to bring him back to Miami.
Marlins homer.
Marte would probably like to go to a contender. He has played on some terrible teams in recent years.
Not a good idea to count on an outlier occurring. Marte will more likely decline than not.
He’s said publicly he wants to remain in Miami. He likes it there. Theres a good chance he’ll come back if the Marlins are willing to pay him what others are willing to pay. It’ll all come down to the money and if the Marlins are willing to match offers or not.
Phillies? We gon blow that lux tax?
I read that Phil’s haven’t gone over the CBT so it would be interesting if they did but Marte would be an excellent pickup for a team that has experienced injuries in CF and he’s hitting very well! If I were a gambler, I’d say Phillies go for it over the Astros and Yankees if those are in fact the teams looking to deal for him.
I think they will…on rentals. The thinking is they can slip back under next year. They’ve been on a nice stretch, but they still have holes to fill. I don’t think Marte is necessarily the way to go though.
The Phillies need a couple of relief pitchers……maybe a #4 starter as well.
They have enough offense to win.
3/$30M for Marte feels like an offer they knew would get rejected but they can at least say “they tried” before dealing him.
He just crushed phillies pitching last few games. I believe he went 4-6 during Friday’s doubleheader (could be wrong on that). He would be a major upgrade in CF!!
I can see the Phil’s going in for him but aren’t they sellers?
Why would they be sellers? NL east is weak. Whoever wins the trade deadline could win the east.
I take back my statement as I haven’t been keeping up with the NL East standings in about 2 weeks. Absolutely, Marte makes sense then. Phil’s are only 2 games back and Mets have key pieces on the IL.
Mets fans think they have the division. Lots of injuries and they are still in first. When healthy its over. But I say the Phillies or Nationals could win the east. Maybe even Atlanta. Could but I won’t say will. I don’t have faith in their management. Phillies needed relievers and failed to do so in free agency. Nationals needed a pitcher and went with Lester. Marte is the least of their needs. Both teams need a starter capable of pitching to a under 4 era. Phillies need at least 2 if not 3 bullpen arms. Doesn’t have to be Kimbrel or Rodriguez. Just guys who are successful working in 6 7 8 innings.
I think ATL was dealt a huge blow with the Acuna injury and the pitching problems, so realistically I think it’s between Mets and Phil’s. I feel like the Nationals are in an interesting position because they could prob do well in a Scherzer deal but like you said the division is weak and winnable. That’s why I’m on this site haha to see how the trade deadline affects all these teams. I was reading about how some teams are at that CBT threshold as well and pitching is needed by so many teams (always is), so it’ll be interesting to see how the next few weeks unfold. Also, dang I mentioned not following the NL East standings too closely for like 2 weeks and anything can happen. Look at the Cubs! What an implosion of epic proportions, all in the span of a few weeks lol
Yeah 2 weeks could be huge. Next 10 days a lot can happen. Hence why the closer to the deadline the more action. Iceberg Titanic blow for the braves. But they are still in it and Freeman didn’t get off to a hot start. If he did things could be different. Bell and Soto same. Braves have pitching, pick up a reliever and another outfielder. Pederson was a start, grab a Duval or Gamel as well. Play the hot hand. I wouldn’t go over the cbt. No need to. Lots of good cheap guys. Tyler Anderson is a excellent number 4 and is dirt cheap.
And the Mets have a rough schedule ahead. A hot streak by any team or two and could be anyones division.
Braves need a couple of relievers.
Exactly. Who says we Mets fans aren’t realistic?
MetsFan22….
@Cosmo2 and @Lee Mazzilli for HOF
You two are among the very few Mets fans that show some observation of reality. However, for you two, I look through the deck of Mets fan cards on this site, and will nullify you both with @MetsFan22 and @Dan Hunter. The wild card is @why not who can go either way, but seems to lean closer to @MetsFan22 more so than he does to you two.
On another note in this topic, it’s hilarious that one of you two realistic Mets fans has a name that is awesome in sticking some humor about one of the many delusions some of your homeistic fans believe – the Lee Mazzilli name. Well, not exactly hoping he’s a HOF player, but the many that were ready to disown the Mets and torch Shea Stadium when Frank Cashen traded Mazzilli for those two pitching prospects…what were their names….Ron Darling and Walt Terrell (later traded for Howard Johnson). Sheesh…Mets fans!
“Frank Cashen traded Mazzilli for those two pitching prospects…what were their names….Ron Darling and Walt Terrell (later traded for Howard Johnson).”
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I forgot about that. The fun part about that is the Mazzilli only lasted four months in Texas before he was traded for Dent. And Dent only lasted about a year before he was released.
So Texas, who had the 2nd worst record in the league, traded two guys that accumulated ~ 250 wins, for nothing, in a season where they had nothing to play for.
“He just crushed phillies pitching last few games”
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@ dmbphils27;
Apparently you missed what happened in the rest of the games……
Travis Jankowski “crushed” Marlins pitching. Had 4 RBI one game. Is playing a superior CF, bunting and moving runners along, and slashing .375 / .474 / .500.
Exactly how is Marte going to be a “….a major upgrade in CF!!”?
The last thing the Phillies need to do is to spend the limited trade assets they have on Marte when it’s pitching – particularly relief pitching – that they need to take the division in 2021 (and sorry, they’re going to take the NLE in 2021….deal with it)..
Can Marte still throw guys out at the plate from the deep parts of the outfield?
He’s 33 not 53. No arm injuries. Arm is good as it was from what I seen.
I think he was genuinely asking
I genuinely gave him a answer. If I wanted to be snarky I would have said…. Nope arms finished. After 30 you are done. That is why you never see any 30 year old pitchers or qbs.
You were still snarky.
Yeah! You tell ‘em!
A little snarky.
Its snark week on my TV.
A lot of OFs lose their arm strength in their 30’s. It’s actually the norm.
Wait. The Marlins offered him a lower AAV than he’s making this year, with a 288/387/443 line, elite baserunning and elite defense? Hahaha
Only defense for that is his age, but he’s having one of his best years this year. Only sensible conclusion is they were never serious about keeping him.
I feel like the phillies would be acquiring him as a long-term option where he would look a lot more like a rental with the astros or yankees
collusion.. the tax penalties are nothing to the Billion dollar clubs and their billionaire owners.. they lie to the fans about it.. and some fans eat it up… but as an old school baseball guy.. I know that MLB rules require teams to make every effort to win.. and that includes financial efforts… otherwise they are fixing games and seasons…. but the MLB ( Multi Lying Billionaires) don’t enforce their own rules upon themselves…. Just wait tile they ask for that next free stadium in your town..
Another guy jealous of another guys success. How original. It’s not about just the money, it’s about the penalty of losing the ability to acquire talent by exceeding the threshold in consecutive years. But then again understanding isn’t as easy as just blindly hating those who have what you don’t.
Exactly. If you don’t swallow the owner’s spiel, sob story and systemic exploitation hook, line and sinker you are “jealous of another guys success.”
Lick those boots, you don’t want to be a “hater”.
Old Guy is probably one of those ‘commies’ who thinks rich people should have to pay taxes, instead of building space ships for themselves.
systemic exploitation hook,
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ROTFLMAO! Exploited Baseball Millionaires Unite!
Seriously, it is the 1% versus the .1%. It is the richest guys in the world negotiating on how to divvy up working class money. Both sides are getting $5-6 BILLION each. How and why would you possibly care who got what?
Hating the owners is a dumb, childish, extreme viewpoint. It can’t be logically justified. Sorry that rich folks aren’t spending their money according to YOUR plan that you thought out for like ten seconds. Not hating the owners doesn’t need to be justified. Hating owners is based on naïveté and dare I say, a bit of childish politics. Hating billionaires but adoring millionaires is ridiculous. So billionaires are greedy but millionaires are underpaid? So dumb.
Could care less how much they pay in taxes. The government just waste’s it anyway.
the point of the tax is to be a deterrent, and there are penalties for going over that arent just case-based. i dont know why this is so hard for people to undetstand.
Because as lot of people have been indoctrinated into social class thinking.
For some reason those that took out loans to buy teams and spend time overseeing the running of them 24/7/365 are evil. On the other hand, those that signed with a franchise to play are given coaches, sports psychiatrists, free medical care, training regarding interviews and developing a brand, state-of-the-art equipment, and experience by the franchise the owner(s) are running – far more than any student paying for college or a training school could imagine – are in some way freedom fighters deserving of tens of millions of dollars a year when successful while the owner(s)/investors should not be making any return on their investments.
It’s sort of like those that think the government is wonderful and just. Meanwhile those in government continue to get richer and richer….and the public never wakes up to whose paying them…..and how.
Heh…. How dare the owners actually try to make a profit on their investment?! How dare they try not to lose their own money!! How dare they try to win without implementing my plan that I thought about for like two seconds and then shouted on the interweb! Owners are evil! Millionaires are underpaid! Spending equals winning!
the “penalties” aren’t even interest% you make on the money every year.. so they aren’t a penalty.. to be a penality they would have to tap your wealth.. you know the part of the MLB that has risen every year to now every team is worth over a billion.. thanks to tax payer supported stadiums..
@someoldguy;
People that own homes are making equity each year.
How come they’re not taxed on the equity?
Are you one of those homeowners?
Congress needs to pass a law to further tax all homeowners.
The “tax” here is a MLB fee… has nothing to do with government… so your statement is ludicrous..
Viva Che!
Marlins need to get offense in return if they trade him. I know they say you can never have enough good pitching, but they have like freaking 8 potential top of the rotation guys already…they need offense…
It’s looking like every pitching prospect is moving up. Max Meyer looks like be could be a good #3 right now and in a other year he’ll be coming for that ace title. Then Jake Eder was predicted to go top first round blows out his elbow we sweep in and get him…and he’s having the best pitcher season in AA. Then you have some of these other crazy guys coming up getting us good inning (Thompson, Poteet, the injured Elisier). Then we still should see Cabrera make a start or two and see what he’s about. Then wait till next year to get Sixto back hopefully. Combined with Sandy, Pablo, Rogers (backups like Holloway and Neidert) and the only person who should be closing Marlins games the next couple years (Bender) then the team could be special.
Sorry this comment is so long and that’s because there is one problem…. ALL hitting prospects are doing terribly. Bleday will fall below 85 if not off the top 100. Sanchez is no longer a prospect. Misner hasn’t done shhht. Burdick (the big sleeper)has been very inconsistent. Now Griffin Conine is tearing it up. Lots of walks and homers (with his usual lots of Ks ) and good defense. Just one problem… He’s playing high A at like 23 or 24…..
So yeah it’s time to start making some trades for offense. I’ll be sad to see Matte go. Even sadder to see the man who made this team so happy with his Arepa Power. Maybe someone will go for a bench bat in Duvall. And I want Yimi traded yesterday. Bender closes.
@ludafish;
Great post!
Small market teams that put a priority on acquiring and developing young pitching seem to have problems developing position players. I don’t know what it is. Possibly they feel that quality pitching is always in demand, so they can trade their excess pitching for position players.
It’s not just the Marlins – the Indians, Brewers, Rays and others are fortunate if a couple of position players come up every few years from their farm system and prove to be decent. They tend to acquire young position players that other teams have lost patience in, and work to make them into productive ML players; or acquire veterans that have maxed out and are amenable to being used in part-time roles.
Where the Marlins are behind is that they tend to use set lineups for position payers. That doesn’t work well as so few youngsters can be productive playing daily. It’s better to spot them in matchups depending on opposing pitchers. Heck, even the large market Dodgers, Giants and now Red Sox are taking that approach.
Example –
Jazz Chisholm is wearing down playing every day. His speed could be better utilized were he rested a few times a week against pitchers that are difficult for him, and later used at a critical point in those games as a pinch runner.
Horrible example. Jazz is supposed to play everyday. We traded Gallen for him.
Fish will not be sitting him a few times a week bc a SP’er is thought against him just to use him as a pinch runner. Gtfoh
The dodgers only do that cause they have pounds of talent to sift through. The Marlins don’t exactly have that talent in the lineup ready to impact the Majors.
@ Mjm117
LOL
So they need to misuse a guy because of who they traded him for?
L O S E R
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@ tstats;
The Dodgers have “a ton of talent” because they went about building a team to maximize each players ability.
Try starting Gavin Lux, A.J. Pollock or Chris Taylor 140 times a year and tell me about their “talent”.
Jazz is one of the Marlins best, if not top, hitter. And not to mention a potential star.
WTH would they misuse him by starting him everyday?
Let’s see if you have something tangible to respond with instead of name-calling. Unless that’s your M.O. then just go take your mid-day nap now.
@ludafish
Kudos for your excellent assessment !! … Our Marlins offense is mediocre and inconsistent at best and if you look at the present AAA and AA players batting performance … it’s awful. Pitching is OK, but we need batters and the Yankees have plenty of that (let’s remember the good experience with Garett Cooper). On the other hand … Making a deal with Phillies (one of our big enemies) … should be out of the equation
While every team got hurt by Covid it really messed up out minor league development. Bleday was on the up and up every year he played in college and then had to take a massive break. Misner and Burdick need experience to attempt to get those raw Tools out. Then we had to rush everyone during 2020 here and there instead of getting them consistent playing time. No hitter in out minor league system really impresses me right now. Entering the 2020 season scouts and all these reports talked about so much potential (Some scoutsove Burdick and can see him being a major sleeper) but now all of them are inconsistent. Monte Harrison same thing. Then Isan looked ready and was garbage and we had to start Jazz. I wish Jazz started this season in the minors to develop more. Lewin Diaz has some major pop and Jesus Sanchez can end up being a decent piece… But then what? They desperately need BA to come back to the guy he was in 19/20 trending upward.
Now they really need to sell. It’s a shame because this team can go and knock around the Dodgers and other giant teams and then get pounded by the Pirates. So much talent but such inconsistency. And they really really messed up by giving Campbell a roster spot and leaving Bender in the minors to start the season (Campbell was never good “but his spin rates” and now he’s PED suspended). They should have had a closer competition in camp but signed Bass to close? A guy who did it once for a 60 game season and was ok at it? That was ridiculous as he literally lost us 4 of our first 8 games. And Donny loves to stick with a guy and run him out there. I don’t want him around anymore. He can’t manage a bullpen to save his life. One day Bender is picking the FIFTH and the next night closing. He loves handing Bass the ball with a one run lead (spoiler alert to what happens!) And then Yimi takes over and does well but then what happens? No save situations come up so….he doesn’t use him. Recently he had several weeks where he pitched ONCE. you expect someone to stay live like that? Ugh. It’s sickening sometimes.
I didn’t think we would be winning the division or anything but this team is way better than what they are showing.
While I’m not putting the blame solely on Mattingly because I think he’s getting orders from the front office about how to handle the bullpen, I do agree that it has been mishandled since the offseason and through Spring Training and through the entire season. And yes, as you and I have pointed out multiple times this year, the bullpen has been the biggest difference between us being where we are now in last place and being a contender which is what we’ve played like before the disastrous bullpen is brought in to blow the lead.
And I’m in the ‘get rid of Bass and Yimi’ campaign. Bender has clearly been the guy that is deserving of being given a shot to close. I’m thinking that the Marlins right now are holding him back to build Yimi’s trade value. But if Yimi keeps imploding, that trade value may not be worth it.
Let’s just get ready for next year. Let the kids play!
Donnie has always been known to mis manage a pen though. He’s one of those “my guys” kind of managers. I swear if the team traded Bleir they might have to put him on suicide watch.
I agree right now build some Yimi value… But letting him pitch once a week is not helping. You throw Bender at every situation like you’re trying to trade him (scary). Pop goes a week without pitching too.
BA going down really messed things up too. It’s been such a weird season. At this rate yeah let the kids play. Maybe Lewin is ready. I’ll really miss Arepa man though. But he’s streaky and is a mess at home. Get whatever offensive prospect you can for any of these guys…. Duvall, Marte, Yimi, Aguilar… I’m good either way with Bleir and Floro if you get good enough pieces.
Unfortunately we me even be getting in to territory we don’t want to talk about… Trading a Sandy or Pablo.
Detwiler was even doing well as a reliever till he had to be a batting practice starter again. They could have got a lottery ticket for him. Ugh I’m taking a break… Who do we root for now? Because I hate Tampa … So…. Blue Jays? Brewers?
It’s an expected move, given the Marlins record this year. They have a good team but building young talent takes time. And money.
Oh. My. God.
If the Astros land Marte then I will bet that they will win the WS this season. Using McCormick and Straw off the bench just makes that team so much more powerful than it is right now. Holy crap.
And that’s not even to mention the relievers that they are surely to add as well. This team is scary as is, but the thought of them adding Marte should make every team in baseball tremble.
Watching them in Chicago this weekend, they don’t look scary at all. The offense was lethargic and the bullpen was a joke. Marte would be a huge boost but the pitching is much more of a concern.
Offense isn’t a concern?
Batting line in July: .195 / 261/ .345 /// .606
Walk/K Ratio before July: 0.52
Walk/K Ratio in July: 0.31
That said, I half agree that Marte would be nice but should not be the focus for the Stro’s on the trade market.
Before anything else, they need..
-A infielder who will help push Toro and Garcia down to Triple A and act as insurance for Diaz barring any production issues when he finishes rehab.
-Another middle reliever and a prompt ejection of Joe Smith from the roster. I personally. The bullpen has stabilized after a rough start to the season, but it needs a piece or two to help solidify those gains.
Bregman will return way before the playoffs and the bullpen is about to get 3-4 guys back from injury as well.
In my opinion they need a starting pitcher to allow Garcia and Javier to go to the pen and keep them from accruing too many innings. After that, Marte would be amazing. He would give this offense yet another consistent hitter to make them even more dangerous.
lol Toro may be unheralded and lacking in any one special tool, but he’s also the only guy to not wet himself against Bundy and Rodon. Kept Saturday from being a no-hitter.
What about the first time they played Chicago?
@jjd, even as a White Sox fan, I agree with this. Rodon’s been great against them both times, but the other three games in Houston were a joke. That said, I’m not reading too much into a couple of series. The Sox faced Houston at the wrong time in the first series; Houston was playing their best ball of the year.
He’d look great in a White Sox uniform as a deadline rental.
Yes
Marte to the White Sox would be very interesting and it would possibly be for Gavin Sheets or Jake Burger!
I’d be more willing to move Burger than Sheets. Burger may be the better overall hitter, but he’s blocked at both 1B and 3B. Even his work at 2B looks unlikely to pay off beyond this year, whereas the Sox will need another OF if they don’t re-sign Marte. If they did a trade with immediate extension, then I’d prefer Sheets to go. Either would be a high price, but if they’re going all in for this year, you have to give value to get value.
Sheets may be even more blocked as he looks like Daniel Palka in the OF.
Uh… this isn’t a real offer.
You referring to mine?
Milw: Tyrone Taylor, Antoine Kelly, Korry Howell and Felix Valerio
Mia: Starling Marte and Anthony Bender
You’ll have to take Bender from my cold dead hands.
Edit: I actually have no idea about the prospects you mentioned… But the Marlins Twitter group just really loves Bender.
One of the better investments the front office has made. This was a win all the way for the fish. Marte is fun to root for and now he can hopeful bring back a nice return.
cutch and marte reunion in philly would be nice to see
Another kick in the balls to (Florida) Marlins fans… new faces, same BS. The 2003 Marlins could have been a dynasty if they offered Ivan Rodriguez 5-10 mill more over 4 years…. new regime, same regime
They aren’t selling off a young guy they could sign or a player under control for awhile. A 32 year old on the last year of his deal is a guy prime to sell (and get good pieces) for a team not yet there.
This isn’t a selling of Cabrera because he’s getting expensive type of move.
Marte is not going to be this good for years to come. Marte is not Pudge Rodriguez. Not even close. … say it with me. (You don’t build a dynasty by giving a contract to a 33 year old coming off a career year, but by all means, sit and steam in your misguided outrage).
How old were you in 03 or how is your memory? The 04 Marlins were sans Pudge and Lee. They was a shame but there were additions as well and guys who came back healthy. They acquired LoDuca and Mota at the deadline. They extended Lowell. Encarnacion even came back.
Then in 05 the team actually spent Money. They had Delgado. They added Leiter and several bullpen arms. The lineup was Pierre, Castillo, Cabrera, Delgado, Lowell, LoDuca, Encarnacion, Gonzalez (SeaBass) and pitcher. Oh and pitcher? The rotation was Beckett, Burnett, Willis, Leiter and Ismael Valdez (good for fifth starter) with guys like Josh Johnson appearing (Willingham , Conine, Hermida)
And that team was awful. Entering the 05 season so many writers had the Marlins winning the NL. And as soon as mid season but attendance went down.
I hate Loria but 04 and 05 are not seasons to be mad about. The original dynasty destroyed was by Hyuzeinga. Then not adding anything to the 09 team. And while they over performed in 06 the 05-06 fire sale is the real travesty.
And if you think that just keeping Pudge would have netted another ring, you’re crazy.
I’ve literally written college papers on the 2003 Marlins and subsequent fire sale…. They gave up Brad Penny for Lo Duca… They had to give up their 3rd best pitcher to find a 70% replacement for someone they didn’t want to pay… meanwhile Pudge turned the Tigers into a WS team in 3 years….. as for the rest… it was all smoke and mirrors… Delgado (and Armando Benitez who you forgot about) were phantom contracts. As Delgado himself put it… “when I was traded I was glad to go a team I knew actually wanted to win and not just pretend like they do”. If the Marlins extended Lee instead of trading him… kept Pudge Rodriguez… the Red Sox first WS ring in decades might have been in 2013… not 2004… absolutely no chance in 2007 (that was the Lowell and Beckett show).
To be honest, Mike Lowell randomly fell off a cliff in 2005, and Juan Pierre also wasnt his usual self that year. The issue with Lowell was the biggest one that year
marte will be traded does not want to stay in miami
Actually he… Aguilar, and Adam Duvall have become kind of a “3 amigos” this season… all of them wanted long term deals.. especially knowing the pitching growth coming in the next 1-5 years. The Marlins have the potential to be a contender for the next 10-20 years with their prospect pool… they will screw all of it up instead (as always).
The Marlins are doing it the right way, the young pitching is almost there, they will tell them when to buy. They lost a lot of games by one run this year. Building a team takes some time, but the farm system is everything to a small market team. They must become the Rays to be successful!
They made the playoffs last year and eliminated the Cubs in the postseason… why does everyone have short term memory loss in the 21st century? lol… they should be building now.. so when that pitching matures.. they win a ring… they shouldn’t wait for them to mature, then build… that makes no sense.
Agreed Jeremy.
But remember it was a shortened season and it shouldnt count for the Fish.
They’re a team on the rise but if last year goes 162 the Marlins wouldn’t have made the playoffs.
Yes, but last year’s short season was an outlier! They won alot of close games too!
They are 40-53 right now so….
Yeah last year they dominated in 7 inning double headers and 1 run games. I believe they also owned the road and were games under at home.
It’s the opposite this year. We have that plus run differential but they can’t win one run games or on the road.
It’s a real shame. Had they actually had a closer competition in Spring instead of just giving it to Bass (Bender should have been closing from the get go) and if they got one more good bat this team would legitimately be in the East race right now (mainly because it seems no one wants it)
Yeah, this year is just a shame. The closer situation and the end of ball games have been a joke.
Personally, I’ve grown accepting that no matter what we do at the deadline, it’s not going to make a difference in this season for us. We need to just focus on next year and see the rest of this season as a ‘nothing to lose’ situation while we let the kids play.
There is a major positive with this season though. We know what we have (Chisholm, Lopez, Alcantara, Rogers, etc.) and what we don’t have as far as guys that we know we can’t depend on (Alfaro, I. Diaz, Yimi, Bass, etc.). And of course the jury is still out on others like Jesus Sanchez…and Sixto to a certain degree.
If we do end up trading Marte, which obviously is likely now, we need to bring back a young(er) CF.
I don’t get the logic of anyone that replied to this… are the Dodgers giving back their rings with this logic? As you yourselves all pointed out.. the Marlins were an extremely clutch team last year, and aren’t this year.. that’s pretty much the only difference…. the Marlins lead the league in 1 run losses and walk off loses…. that’s a sign of being close.. not a sign you need to re build.
They are already rebuilding. In the last year or two of the rebuild. I’d predict they are ready to be a force has in ‘23. Marte will be declining by then.
@jeremyn
We’re rebuilding. Even as we made the playoffs last season, I saw it as a bonus that allowed our young players to get postseason experience a couple of years before they were a true playoff contender.
As for this season, even as bad as the W-L columns look, we’ve been in position to win many games. We’ve led many until the last couple of innings to where anyone is free to look up the box scores and they will see a reasonably competent bullpen would have the Marlins in 1st or 2nd in the NL East right now. That points to us not being far away in our rebuild. But it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t continue in it. We still need to build a bullpen that has long term, sustainable success. We have some positions that need young(er) options that can improve our run production and have sustainable success. These are areas that can’t be fixed entirely through free agency – certainly not in one offseason because certain parts will be aging while we’re brining in other primed talent.
This is the reason so many of us are still looking at the rebuild.
@Cosmo2
Clearly the Marlins are not too far away. I actually think they can contend next year, depending on how they address their weaknesses this offseason. But for sure 23 is the year that they can be looked on to be a serious force – with an even clearer picture of what we have in position players and the rest of the pitching arms settling in as either SPs or Bullpen pieces.
Here’s where we appear to be at right now.
1) We have good, young SPs with many other arms that can come in to compete for spots either at the back end of the rotation or for bullpen roles.
2) With Marte and Jazz, we have table-setters for the run producers. However, with Marte soon to be gone, we’ll need to either get another player to combine with Jazz as a table-setter or ask whether we can trust Miguel Rojas in that role (who I prefer at the bottom of the lineup). No matter what we do in a Marte trade, we need a CF back because we have none in our system that can hit. We have CFs with great gloves and base runners, but no bats that can play everyday (Sierra, Brinson, Harrison). We have our 4th OF spot covered with them. We need a CF and will need a table-setter to combine with Jazz.
3) We need two run producers. One very likely needs to be a cornerstone type of run producing bat (not necessarily a superstar, but not exactly a duplication of what we currently have). We have solid run producers, but they are more of the protective bat type of hitters. Cooper is a protective bat. Aguilar is a protective bat. Brian Anderson, even though he’s an excellent all around player, is still more of a protective bat. We need someone that is a notch above that. We also need to clear out the ones in corner OF and 1B/(future DH) spots. With that, we need to figure out who to move between Cooper and Aguilar. we have Lewin Diaz that needs to be looked at. Duvall needs to be moved at the deadline because he’s not our future. Once we’ve looked at Lewin, Jesus Sanchez, and other young bats, and have determined who we need to keep between Aguilar and Cooper, we can go into the offseason filling the need for run production.
4) Our bullpen is a disaster. We need to move on from Yimi and Bass. We need to make a decision on whether we feel Floro can be a useful piece in a lesser role. We need to see what Bender can do as a Closer or Set-up man. We need to see what other young arms, who aren’t SPs or aren’t ready to start at the MLB level, can do out of our bullpen. Then from there, we can determine if we need to go externally to get a real Closer and Set-up man or just need to fill holes in other roles.
5) One of the good things in our struggles is that we see we need to go externally for a Catcher. Alfaro is not working out. He lost his job last year to Wallach. It looks like he’s now lost a lot of playing time to Sandy Leon, which shows how far Alfaro has stepped back in his progression. Time to move on after this season – if not at the deadline with trade returns. Heck, if the Cubs are in sell mode, I’d even get in on Contreras in preparation for next year.
This is where the Marlins are in their rebuild. Not too far away, but definitely some work to do.
I was hoping they’d trade him with the intent of just resigning him in the offseason. Not sure why more teams don’t do that.
Kim Ng “ Hey MLB ball clubs!!! I’m trading Marte to the highest bidder and then resigning him after the season! Nobody make a bid for him please. Thank you “
How can they justify only offering 30 million for three years? They had to know he was going to refuse that, why bother how do you been trying to say that they did
he is going to be traded case closed
If he really wants to stay here you start low. Then there’s a counter. If his counter is too high you know where you stand and walk. They could still be negotiating. In the end he’s older and has had a streaky kind of career. He will get his legacy money from someone but I don’t think he’s worth more than 3/30. Excellent chance that third year really hurts whoever is paying for it.
Circle back on discussions in the off-season with the Marlins, Rick. Offer Yermin and a pitching prospect for Marte.
Um, he’s a free agent after this year. Sox can just sign him without giving up anyone.
True but Yermin has no place on this team and Marte in RF this year wouldn’t hurt.
no place based on what?
Logjam at DH, LF, 1B. Abreu, Vaughn, Eloy, Burger, Sheets. Not a lot of value if they don’t think he can catch (they don’t). Can’t play anywhere else. However, the Marlins supposedly tried to trade for him in the off-season.
Yes, but you said offseason. If Yermin and a low-level guy were all it took to land Marte, I’d be ecstatic. Just don’t see the price being that low.
The one advantage that the Sox or any other team that would trade for a player like Marte is to give themselves a few months of exclusive bargaining time before he hits the market. That is why some teams will not wait until FA to start before trying to sign a player.
There’s another: letting the player get to know the team. Lynn just signed a team-friendly deal because he loves the club. Marte’s already willing to sign for a relatively modest amount. If he clicks with the rest of the guys, no reason to think he wouldn’t want to re-sign with the Sox.
Hoping the White Sox go get him, not just because he’s an upgrade over Sheets/Hamilton/Engel, but also to keep him off the Astros and, to a lesser extent, the Yankees. Phillies make sense, being just 2 back. If not the White Sox, I hope he goes there.
Fan’s don’t fall for it the Phillies need to be sellers and start over for next year and years to come.They need too much now to win.Biggest fraud’s on this team are Nola and Harper
The last straw with Harper was sitting out 2nd game of double header this weekend it was the
biggest series or the season and Nola for spreading covid-19 because he failed to get a shot.Then Nola is down on the field with the guys on Saturday WTF
Yankees don’t need Marte another right handed hitter. Greg Allen is nothing special but he’s provided a little spark batting left handed and adding some much needed team speed.
Hi ho silver. Where is the baldphoenix idiot. Maybe dining out with bob nutting
But they are only a few games behind and the Mets have injuries. The division is winnable! I thought they would be sellers too until I recently check the NLEast standings. Since the playoffs are a crapshoot, getting pieces at the deadline could get the Phillies over the top. I’m watching Washington as well to see if they deal Scherzer or go for it.
Yes, but last year’s short season was an outlier! They won alot of close games too!
Phillies should be focused exclusively on the bullpen
Would love to see the Pirates bring him back at 4/50 in the offseason. No, it doesn’t make a ton of sense but we won’t be spending money on anyone else (especially with Polanco coming off the books after this year). Front load the contract so he’d only make $10 mil a year after year one and you might have a really attractive trade chip as well. He’s going to slow down but I could see him being a productive player into his late 30s. And I think an OF of Marte/Reynolds/Cruz could be anchoring a decent offense by 2023 with Martin at 1B, Gonzales at 2B, Peguero at SS, Hayes, and Stallings or Davis at C.
This team would never sign him but I think there is a glimmer of sense in it.
1-Very, very few players are productive in their late-30s unless they are using PEDs.
2-Marte might have one good season left. PT is 27 in record and 28th in run differential. I think they’ve made some progress, but you don’t want to saddle their 2023-24 teams with an aging Marte.
Marte would be an excellent rental for the Phils. The Fish would have to be somewhat reasonable in what they ask for. The Phils are loaded with marginal prospects and might be a good fit in a deal. Remember, this a true two month rental.
Why would they have to be reasonable in they ask for?
Especially with a division rival?
No they don’t have to. I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t trade Marte at all.
Wait…so people are saying that Jeter will gift Marte to the Yankees like they did with Stanton? If Jeter can pull off something that brings out the continuous joy like that Stanton trade, I’m for it. Since Marte doesn’t have the type of contract, then it must be resulting in the Yankees giving us some studs. That’s the way Jeter’s gifts with the Yankees work based on the history – something that makes us laugh endlessly at the Yankees and the dimwits that claim that Jeter gifted the Yankees something.