In a rare and rather stunning swap between a pair of division rivals who are both in contention, the Mariners have traded closer Kendall Graveman and recently designated-for-assignment righty Rafael Montero to the Astros in exchange for young infielder Abraham Toro and veteran righty Joe Smith, according to both clubs. The trade is even more eye-opening when considering that the two clubs are gearing up to play each other in the second game of a three-game set tonight.
Trading Graveman at all registers as a moderate surprise, given the Mariners’ recent climb in the standings and stated desire to improve the 2021 roster. To see him traded to the division-leading Astros while the two squads are playing one another is downright jarring. That said, Graveman is a free agent at season’s end, and in Toro, the Mariners are acquiring five seasons of control over an infielder who has been considered one of Houston’s more promising young prospects for the past few years.
In speaking to the media about the trade, Seattle general manager Jerry Dipoto plainly acknowledged that as a standalone transaction, it’s a head-scratching move. But Dipoto also emphasized some patience, suggesting this move is but one of a sequence of trades designed to improve the Mariners’ chances both in 2021 and over the long-term down the road (Twitter thread via MLB.com’s Daniel Kramer). Dipoto suggested a subsequent trade or trades could come together as soon as tonight or in the coming days, but it seems as though this is but one of a series of moves for which the Mariners are angling; time will tell just how the moves look when judged in their totality.
Toro, 24, hasn’t yet pieced things together in limited big league action, but he’s decimated Triple-A pitching (.392/.497/.600 in 33 games) and posted strong numbers in pitcher-friendly Double-A settings (.282/.369/.468 in 148 games). The switch-hitting Toro provides the Mariners with a possible long-term option at third base, but he’s also logged considerable time at second base — another area where the Mariners have been known to be seeking help. That long-term fit isn’t likely to matter much to the clubhouse, however, and Divish rather unsurprisingly tweets that the decision to trade Graveman to their top division rival was not well-received among Seattle players.
That’s understandable on Seattle’s end, given just how dominant Graveman has become since transitioning to the bullpen late in the 2020 season. The former Athletics starter has bounced back from an injury-lost 2019 season to emerge as one of the American League’s more effective relievers. In 33 innings this season, Graveman has pitched to a 0.82 ERA with a 28.1 percent strikeout rate, a 6.6 walk rate and a 53.9 percent ground-ball rate. Dating back to his shift to the bullpen in 2020, he’s compiled 43 innings of 1.47 ERA ball.
Graveman is likely all the more appealing to the luxury-conscious Astros because of his affordable salary. He’s playing on a one-year, $1.25MM contract. Incentives have already boosted that base salary by $400K, and the contract overall contains a total of $3MM in reachable incentives. That said, $1.5MM of those are tied up in games finished, and manager Dusty Baker has already indicated that Ryan Pressly is likely to continue as his closer. Graveman could still collect six more stray games finished to reach his first of three would-be $500K bonuses tied to games finished, but it’s unlikely he reaches the 30 and 40 games finished needed to unlock the next pair of $500K bonuses. In all, the contract will likely top out paying him somewhere in the range of $2.65MM based on incentives tied to days on the roster, games finished and total innings pitched.
Montero’s inclusion in the trade is likely a pure accounting measure. The combined salaries of Montero and Graveman ought to clock in somewhere in the same ballpark as Smith’s $4MM salary and luxury-tax hit, though depending on the status of Graveman’s incentives, the Astros could come out either a bit ahead or a bit behind where they were previously projected.
Montero opened the season as the closer in Seattle but struggled early and has been mired in a catastrophic slump of late, yielding 16 runs in his past 11 innings. The ’Stros may have their own ideas on how to help a reliever who was quite good with the Rangers in 2019-20 right the ship, but Montero’s inclusion doesn’t appear to be a key part of the swap. At best he’s a roll of the dice, and at worst he’s a financial counterweight who could be cut loose quickly if his struggles persist.
The same is largely true of Smith, who opted out of the 2020 season after signing a two-year deal in Houston and has been clobbered for a 7.48 ERA in 21 2/3 innings this year. Some of that has been attributable to a sky-high .413 batting average on balls in play, but Smith is sporting a career-low strikeout rate, a grounder rate that’s well off his peak levels and has also been quite homer-prone. As with Houston and Montero, perhaps the Mariners have an idea or two about how to get the veteran righty back on track, but the trade is much more about Graveman and Toro than about the struggling relievers accompanying those two players.
Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times first tweeted that Toro and a reliever were going to the Mariners in exchange for two players. MLB.com’s Brian McTaggart provided the full context on the trade.
Whiskey and leather balls
Wow, dont see this very often, not the division rivals part at least
jawinks
Wonder what Houston wants with Montero too
Gk_holiday
Wonder what Seattle wants with either of the players they acquired.
EndinStealth
Flipping for Trea Turner
CamFrost
Hahahaha
Rsox
Toro is a potential replacement for Seager either this season if Seager is traded or next when they inevitably decline his option. Smith is a free agent at seasons end so it doesn’t really matter
Stevil
Even if they were to flip Toro in part of a package for someone better, this deal makes the much hated Houston Astros, better. Seattle may seem like longshots for the division (as well as a wild card), but they have one of the weakest strength of schedules remaining and they just proved they can challenge two of the best teams in the league.
If they keep Toro, well, that probably spells the end for Seager in Seattle, which would further upset the fans as they would have the remainder of the season to overthink and stress it.
Whiskey and leather balls
Montero was pretty good in a rangers uniform. Graveman is a rental Toro is more of a utility player (so far) but is a switch hitter and controllable for like 4 more years so i can see why he’d be desirable. Not sure why the mariners would give up Graveman but we can assume future moves on their part
iverbure
How disrespectful the Mariners are to Joe smith and Toro. Basically calling them bums indirectly. Team has a lot of problems always stuff like this leaking.
bigguccisosa300
Uhm what? No they didn’t lol. The players were pissed their veteran closer got traded to a divisional rival for a prospect in the middle of a playoff race while they’re playing a series against them. It’s really very obvious. They’re not “basically calling them bums indirectly” lmao
Platypus
I don’t really see how this helps the M’s. Toro isn’t upgrading 2nd base or anywhere. Dipoto… what are you doing…
Samuel
Dipoto being Dipoto…..
Churn that roster!
bucsfan0004
Toro is under team control for many years. I think he’s clearly better than his numbers show. And bullpen guys are bullpen guys. I think the M’s won the trade
Slothcliff Hokum
I like your optimism, and I hope you’re right!
llama
Toro also is a third basemen (not a second) so when Seager leaves next year, boom.
Poppin' Balls
Agreed, I think Toro can develop further into an above average everyday player.
BuddyBoy
I hope you’re right as I tend to be on the longterm outlook of deals and I don’t like this one at all.
LaFlamaBlanca
Riiight because Graveman can’t potentially be a key cog in a deep playoff run for the Astros? Guy slings a 99mph turbo sinker and a filthy slide piece at 90 mph. And by the looks of it they’re not done adding arms, they have the firepower to pull off Kimbrel and Scherzer if they wanted. For as much as I dislike them that’s a scary team in the playoffs.
SLL
I agree. Mariners won. They aren’t a better team today than yesterday, but . . .
Mariners gave up
1. a very effective relief pitcher who will be a free agent at the end of the season
2. a disaster of a pitcher who was never going to pitch for them again
Mariners got
1. a very good relief pitcher having a rough year (will be F.A.)
2. a young infielder, controllable for many years, who was as high as #5 in Astro’s prospect list and was ranked as a Tier 2 Prospect (Above-average chance of being a solid big-leaguer) by Prospects 1500.
coldgoldenfalstaff
Smith is washed up. He’s the oldest reliever in the AL, been awful when he wasn’t hurt, he opted out last year,and hasn’t gotten any effectiveness back.
Montero was good with Texas and if pitcher whisperer Strom could get him back on track, starting with dropping the sinker. Also the Astros bullpen outside of Pressley, Graveman and young starters pressed into pen duty is so weak,they’ll give him a long hard look to turn it around.
But Toro looked like he was turning the corner, so you got a decent 3B there with some pop in his bat.
Special Agent
Both teams got what they wanted.
Cap & Crunch
I think its a play at the next 4.5 yrs opposed to 0.5 .-
I also assume they have a lot of confidence in some of these young guys currently in Seas pen (for better or worse) – I like Toro, even if he just becomes a bonified versatile inf/bn play he provides a ton of surplus value on the ledger for Sea in future years. They probably viewed Ty France in this way in some regard then he became a little bit more –
I get the optics look odd but Id wait to fully judge this one so quickly as a Sea mistake. I’m actually quite fond of it although I do see how it could go sideways for 21′ quickly
Slothcliff Hokum
Maybe they see Toro as a player who, along with Austin Shenton and maybe Noelvi Marte, might help solidify 3B for them once Kyle Seager is gone… although I’ve been a Mariners fan since the franchise started, and would love to see a trade or two designed to help the M’s NOW. Good grief, why not when they’re nine games over .500, playing good ball and closing in on a wild card? This move looks a lot more like selling than buying. Come on Jerry, let’s buy.
Cap & Crunch
They still can and I think they will add in the coming days
If their scouts tell them they really Dig Toro and you can get him for 2 months of a Rp you just signed on a bargain deal you trust them and pull the trigger every time
I get the fans wanting it today but Id say hold off 3 days until everything happens before judging this trade. Id bet nobody was doing cartwheels upon Ty Frances name coming North as well
debubba
Cleveland’s 2B Hernandez will be traded to Seattle for one of their young outfielders not named Lewis or Kelenick.
MrAngelFan
One game out of wildcard and trade one of the best closers in the game to division rival that desperately needs one for a prospect that has struggled for 3 straight years at the major league level and a aging reliever that is a shell of his former self. Astros made out like bandits by getting a great closer and were able to rid themselves of a prospect with no signs of progress.
You just got Dipoto’d.
nwvibes
Toro goes yard in his 1st AB for the M’s!! LMAO..
Colt 45
Against our closer!
Ronk325
I fail to see how this helps the Mariners. Seems like they just did their division rivals a favor
jjd002
Houston radio is saying the same exact stuff right now.
Samuel
The narrative will be that Jerry is still rebuilding so he’s looking at the long-term picture.
It’s sort of job security. He did it with the Angels and now the Mariners. You keep telling your employer that winning is in the future. That keeps the pressure off the players, manager / coaches, FO staff and yourself. Preller did this for 6 years in San Diego. Keep gathering youngsters with potential until you have your roster overflowing with youngsters with potential.
Tomorrow never comes.
I’m convinced all the pub about 22 year-old Jarred Kelenic is unwarranted, and in fact hurting him. The Nationals quietly brought up Juan Soto at age 19. For those watching Nationals games it was obvious this guy was something special – even better than Harper. But fans around the country didn’t even take notice of him until he got in some post-season games the next year.
Even casual, non-Mariner fans are expecting big things out of Kelenic. The young man’s 22 and over his head at the ML level. Why put added pressure on the guy?
In a few years Mariners ownership can do what the Padres did – give Jerry an ultimatum to win or else, give him a big payroll budget, and have him trade a grab bag of his overrated prospects for veterans to teams that can’t afford their salaries and have the personnel to develop the youngsters correctly – even though they won’t be the big stars they were sold as (run on sentence…but you get the idea).
Cap & Crunch
I disagree respectfully Sam. I think Sea is building really really well
While its a leap to say they will be the best team in the decade from the Div with the Astros doing what they do so well they are Ripe Imo moving forward with flexibility, payroll, & young MLB ready talent all at their side to help.
I hope the wallet comes out as soon as next year…We shall see, these things can never be assumed. I feel Jerry has put the perfect slow burn to this roster to date, do his other gears still function as well, IDK
Samuel
I grew up watching a team that didn’t make the post-season for 2 generations. But they always were telling us that they were bringing in good young players, and the fans were walking around saying – “That team’s gonna be real good in 2-3 years”.
They turned out to be a farm club at the ML level for the other teams. Always trading off the few decent players they developed for more youngsters that were gonna be real, real good….in just a few years….just you watch!
Cap & Crunch
Perhaps that personal exp is still too close to evaluate Sea properly today?
I’m assuming this was 3~4 generations ago so a lot has changed as well with team building since then
I don’t think that’s the case here, there will be chips pushed by Sea soon . How it all works out? Your guess is as good as mine; but I don’t think they lay around dormant for many more years in purgatory like you suggest
ayrbhoy
You cant judge Dipoto on this Graveman- Toro deal alone. This transaction is just one piece of a puzzle that will come into view by Friday eve.
There’s no way our FO would make this move w/o having a plan to add pitching and a proven bat. Watch this space…
jaxwithanx
lol. God I can hear the prayer in the background
JohhnyBets67
Sammy you’re so far off base. Classic senseless prospect bashing. The Mariners have already shown real results with prospects in the majors. That’s why the Mariners are where they are. DiPoto has made some smart trades and good picks/IFA signings. He built the system up and so far he hasn’t let 100 games of success ruin the long term plan.
That’s smart GM’ing. I hated his earlier work but I like what he’s been doing a lot since he commuted to a real rebuild. And as for Kelenic v Soto….. Well, that’s just ridiculous. Kelenic was dealt for Robbie Cano and Edwin Diaz.And he was drafted in the top 5 by a New York team…… No surprise he’s received a lot of hype.
jaxwithanx
lmao that Kelenic and Soto comparison is one of the most nonsensical things I’ve ever read on the internet.
No one was and/or is expecting much from Kelenic. I think you’re letting your local coverage and knowledge VASTLY cloud you’re understanding of the league as a whole.
Rsox
You all fail to see the beauty of DiPoto’s plan. Yes Graveman maybe one of the better closers this year, but that doesn’t help when Montero blows the lead in the 7th inning…
Stevil
It doesn’t help Seattle. Toro doesn’t really play 2B. Maybe they think he can, but giving up a dominant closer who has helped them win a number of tight games….
Jerry did a great job with this roster considering his budget. But he blew this one. Graveman was also a clear leader on the team. The clubhouse is going to be hot.
ayrbhoy
When I read the news at first I was hot! Livid in fact. The Astros only have one weakness -their pen, so why would you make them better? In exchange for an unproven player who doesn’t make the M’s a better team NOW.
Then I thought about all the moves that have got us to this point in the season. All the RP’s who have said our Org has helped them become better. I think it was Steckenrider or Chargois that said “it was like they gave me the cheat codes” to becoming a better version of myself.
I like what we’ve done assembling this current team. Especially the Bullpen. So I’m going to trust that there is more at work here, a bigger picture that, come Friday makes our ballclub a better version of itself.
Benjamin560
Gonna be awesome when Ken Giles and Andres Munoz are healthy next year with Steckenrider, Seawald, Chargois, Sadler, and Swanson.
Stevil
You don’t make your contending team better by trading your closer and clubhouse leader–and he went to a rival who could end up eliminatingthem from postseason play if they were to get in.
What’s even more troubling is that it hints that Seager is getting replaced cheaply.
Seattle needs veterans. What they don’t need is more lottery tickets.
compassrose
I still say pickup Seagers option to be the team leader. I think this moves means he is gone before Friday. I hate trades in div and think this could bite us this year. With Seager and a prospect or two they could get another SP. money might be involved because the team option becomes player option Dipoto has lost a few trades but is way ahead on wins. We will see how it all shakes out. We also have a couple guys on Sewald Steckinrider Swanson and maybe Chargois as closers.
Cap & Crunch
Munoz indeed is going to be a very fun watch that many fans have totally forgot about in Seattle next year
Benjamin560
I know emotions are high, but Abraham Toro lengthens this lineup. Our bullpen is stocked to the brim and we have two excellent pitchers joining us next year in Ken Giles and Andres Munóz. Not to mention the three elite arms already on the team in Paul Sewald, Drew Steckenrider, and JT Chargois. Casey Sadler has also come off the IL as has Erik Swanson. And Hector Santiago has served his ridiculous suspension.
Our infield ranks have very little depth. Our second base position is statistically the WORST in baseball next to Baltimore’s. I love me some Dylan Moore, but he is the true definition of a Utility player and Kendall Graveman is a free agent at the end of the season. We have control over Toro’s contract, who was Houston’s #3 prospect for the next five seasons.
There’s no guarantee that Jerry would be willing to pay the massive contract that Gravemen will surely command in the offseason, and he will. Money that could be allocated to other more important area’s of the roster such as the starting rotation. Toro is cost controlled through 2026.
Dipoto has also stated more moves are yet to come. He has reconstructed this roster through augmentation to where we are eight games over .500 and contending for the Wild Card without sacrificing or mortgaging the future of this franchise. The farm system remains one of the best in baseball. The Mariners have a ton of draft capital that they can choose to use to further augment the Big League roster.
I know this is a bitter pill to swallow, it is, but we must believe in the process. This is a business.
Go M’s!
A'sfaninUK
Makes no sense, doesnt make either team better, just a trade for trades sake – I hate DiPoto
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Makes Houston much better with Graveman in the pen, and they have a way with helping pitchers like Montero,think this may come back to haunt Jerry.
tribepride17
Graveman may end up being the biggest acquisition of the deadline if he stays healthy and keeps dominating in October. He’s been unhittable when he’s right this year.
goastros123
They both did well in this trade. Toro is a young, talented player. Some times, you just need a change of scenery. See JD Martinez. The Astros upgraded their bullpen a bit with the addition of Graveman. They both benefit from this trade, just in different ways and to different degrees.
compassrose
Well bloke we don’t care if you hate Dipoto. He is doing a good job and we are playing better than anyone thought. Thanks to Dipoto. Oh and the As will miss the playoffs.
birdsfan415
woahhh
jjd002
What is the thought process behind this in Seattle?
A'sfaninUK
Jerry DiPoto views players like chess pieces not human beings.
MLB needs to take a leaf from the NBA to protect players from talentless hacks like Dipoto.
MLB needs to replace like 90% of owners and GMs. So many terrible or incompetent people at the very top.
A'sfaninUK
I guess A’s fans are really happy to see Seattle tearing down instead of contending. Thanks Jerry!
MediocreCardinals
Out of the MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, and heck, even PGA…the NBA is the most unwatchable sport. Even their free agency and trades are convoluted. I don’t know why people on here always say baseball should take a page out of the NBA. Self promotion is the only thing they get right.
GreenWood Porter
While the NBA continues to blow away MLB, NHL, and even the PGA in viewership every year. It must be watchable for most people.
JT19
Bold to say NBA’s free agency and trading are convoluted when in baseball you have players who normally can’t even hit free agency until they’ve spent 5+ years in the majors (and not counting any time they might be spending in the minors), are being given contracts that are 7+ years long with AAV’s in the $20-35m range (with some contracts having tons of money being deferred), and then trades where players are being traded for “cash considerations and a player to be named later”. Not to say that the NBA keeps it simple either, but MLB is hardly the standard for simple and straightforward transactions and contracts.
hd-electraglide
Where in the Sam Hill did you come up with 90% of owners and GM’s need replacing. Which three teams made your cut?
Kyle T
Wow. what a terrible trade Jerry thanks for letting mariners fans down..let’s trade our best reliever to The astros…for a washed up RP and an unproven infielder..You just put us further away from the wild card spot this year
The Natural
M’s won this trade easily. I doubt if DiPoto is done….look for relievers headed to Seattle for prospects.
tribepride17
Mariners definitely didn’t win this trade. Graveman could have landed some real prospects instead of a future utility guy. Astros always find a way to get great players without trading away their good prospects.
jaxwithanx
God I can hear you praying…
Zissou
You’re absolutely nuts…
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Graveman for that really Jerry, your team is in contention and you trade your most dominant bullpen arm for a 2and baseman that is not much of a upgrade for what you have already.
PapiElf
It would be pretty funny if the trade didn’t end up going through and the players who were traded have to trudge back across the field to their old teams
queenie
LOL. Boy that would probably be a first. I would love to see that happen.
jvent
Damn , the Mets need relievers
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Hell yeah we could use a arm like Graveman. But we gave up on Seawald and now he doing it in Seattle lol.
Buckner
The Mets gave away Paul Sewald, who is apparently the new closer.
DVail1979
Id be willing to bet Sewald is the new Graveman and Steckenrider will sneak in and get saves with Sewald
Cap & Crunch
Love the oddity, so rare today to have a challenge trade let alone in the Division with 2 teams battling for playoff spots !
Jerry still seems like he likes to gamble it’s just no longer at the High roller tables , good for US-
I kinda low key dig it for Sea but see what Houston’s doing , Toro’s a quality MLB player with 4 more cheap years left for 2 months of Graveman,
A'sfaninUK
I love challenge trades but these are kinda known-quantities.
I think the best possible challenge trade right now is Joey Bart for Jesus Luzardo.
budgreen420
FFS why???
Appalachian_Outlaw
Jerry may indeed love to gamble, but he lost his shirt this hand.
jdgoat
Seems like a bit of a gut punch to the Mariners players and fans. This looks to be their best chance to end the postseason drought in years.
dannycore
So either Torrens or Seager is getting traded because I’m not seeing the path to playing time for Toro?
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Please send seager to Queens, I may get criticized by some,but I would take him anyday over jd davis.
Gk_holiday
That’s what I’m thinking
Deleted User
Mariners must really like Toro
Buckner
If you look at Toro’s minor league stats, he is actually a good hitter. Just never got a chance playing behind some good hitters in HOU.
Ww0907
I guess so Steve but I’ve seen toro for awhile and I mean, he’s okay but nothing special. There’s no question we got better. I’m not sure Seattle did, although time will tell. Maybe he can blossom into their everyday third baseman after Seager leaves.
Bryzzo2016
I think Dipoto has a bigger move in mind, perhaps paving the way for a Kimbrel trade.
Jordo87
Why would they trade a good cheap closer for a more expensive good closer
Pkindaclub
Club control beyond this year n he’s a dominant closer
Samuel
@ Bryzzo2016;
Sure. That’s probably it.
bravesfan
I don’t understand this deal at all for the M’s…. I don’t follow them closely, but this just doesn’t make a lot of sense
orange2001
I see some potential with Toro, but no question that short-term, this will help Houston and hurt Seattle.
64' Yanks
Cashman response, well I tried calling but the phone lines were busy.
Rangers29
Wow, the Astros got off like Bandits in this one. Jesus.
WSnotAstros2017
Not sad to see Joe Smith go. Maybe a change of scenery. Toro though liked him. But with Bergman due back and Alydms Diaz. I know spelling off but guess want to use him till Alex returns. But after last nights game felt for Houston something would be coming. But am shocked Seattle sent Graveman but that other pitcher do not know enough on.
bobtillman
Might be strangest trade I’ve ever seen, and I was around for Ruth for No No Nannette….really, anybody get this?
Phil253
This = stupid, prove me wrong.
LordD99
So…my guess is another deal is incoming in the Mariners side. That’s all I got.
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Unless there gonna include Toro and a package for Kimbrell ,I dont get it at all.
Jordo87
Not what they meant by go and make some playoff push moves Jerry
dshires4
There’s another move to come. There’s no chance our return is an underwhelming Toro for arguably the top non-Kimbrel bullpen arm traded at the deadline.
On the surface, I question this deal but fully expect Dipoto to do something else.
Slothcliff Hokum
My oh my… what an odd trade…as a Mariners fan I was sure hoping for something better than this.
Wowwwwww
This trade doesn’t make much sense. I’m assuming Dipoto just overvalued Toro and thinks Joe Smith can bounce back and put up graveman stats. That being said I don’t think Dipoto knows what he’s doing…
Joshsam Junghuff
Do you think the Ms are winning it all this year? If not then it makes sense to me to give up 2 months of Graveman for 4 years and 2 months of a guy who projects to possibly be a switch-hitting Kyle Seager type hitter with the ability to play 2nd base. Toro is a solid B prospect
Ww0907
Great deal for us, gotta say this is a head scratcher for Seattle. I know graveman is a FA at the end of the year but we got him for Joe Smith (who wasn’t doing anything this year anyway) and Toro who has shown some promise but is far from a sure thing. This immediately makes us a better team, now we have an 8th inning guy to set up Pressly. I don’t see how this makes the Mariners better. But maybe I’m wrong. Good on James Click to improve the team and stay under the tax because this year, Graveman is essentially working for free in MLB terms (1.25 million.) Hopefully Pedro Baez can be the 7th inning guy and Stanek and Abreu can go to more traditional roles. Love this deal for us.
vandal25
You received two months of graveman and a seven era guy for a seven era guy and what was a top 5 prospect In The Houston system. Can we say Team control is the reason this happens. Sewald has stepped up Swanson looks good they think they can get by with the bullpen less the best arm in the pen.
Ww0907
I’ve seen toro…he’s decent but I’m very okay with this trade. It makes us better this year and we’re going for it.
sonorawind
Giving up your closer for a guy who is a .193 hitter is making the team better THIS YEAR?
I think it’s not a bad trade for Toro’s potential moving forward, But I dont see how this improves the Mariners unless Dipoto moves Toro or Smith to acquire something better.
JonathanJ
Toro is blocked by Bregman and Aledyms Diaz. The Astros got what they needed without giving up one of the prospects they really are counting on in the future like Pena, Brown, Leon, Korey Lee, etc…
Joshsam Junghuff
Aledyms Diaz hasn’t been blocking anybody since possibly the 1st half of his rookie year with STL.
Toro is, however, blocked by Bregman and Altuve
JonathanJ
Toro couldn’t even make the opening day roster and was sent to AAA while a bum like Robel Garcia made the roster. Diaz has a 116 OPS+ this year, and has been far better than Toro has ever hit. Maybe Toro becomes something, but he looks like a AAAA player and his defense at 3rd has been questionable at times.
Strosfn79
Toro was sent to AAA for opening day because the front office wanted him to play every day, because they saw him as a future big leaguer that still needed some experience and development.
Things he could not get sitting on the bench behind Bregman, Altuve, and Gurriel.
And it worked.
After Bregman went down and he got regular playing time he has performed:
.751OPS with just under 20% K rate. 7HR, 3SB and 22RBI in 106PA.
That works out to 33HR, 14SB, and 94RBI in 500PA.
not bad for a 24 year old in first extended opportunity.
Central Valley
Anyone know if the Farhan Zaidi plans on making any moves?
If you see him this week at your local car dealership, tell him it’s okay to take a walk on showroom floor and take a look at the newest models. No need to go straight to their dumpster.
Oldschoolandthemets1980
If someone does see him,please ask hi. To trade Wilmer back home to Queens
RiverRat
Will the M’s flip Toro in a package for Trea Turner…?
bigdaddyhacks
This is my thinking. Toro goes in a package to Washington for trey turner
Oldschoolandthemets1980
In other news Trey Turner just got tooken out the game, is this Jerry,s next move
vtadave
Tooken
Oldschoolandthemets1980
6th grade was the best 5 years of my life
hockeyjohn
Thank you! You gave me a nice laugh with that line.
hd-electraglide
Me too
Oldschoolandthemets1980
No problem ,I learned alot when I graduated from Devry university plus I also stayed at A Holiday Inn last night.
hd-electraglide
Glad you have a sense of humor!
A'sfaninUK
TREA TURNER TO SEATTLE NOW???
vtadave
Nope headed to LA with Scherzer for Ruiz, Lux, and Gray.
Oldschoolandthemets1980
That wouldnt surprise me either
Joshsam Junghuff
Turner tested positive for COVID-19
skrockij89
What a stupid trade for the M’s.
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Even if it results in something else like Turner or etc,I would not have moved Graveman in a playoff push.
The Natural
M’s won this trade easily. I doubt if DiPoto is done….look for relievers headed to Seattle for prospects.
Appalachian_Outlaw
How?
I mean if I were an M’s fan, I’d be mad right now.
Bry
Jerry has to have more trades up his sleeve
Gk_holiday
Trea Turner baby let’s go get em!
Chris Lee
Does this end Mariners pursuit of Whit Merrifield? Boy, that is strange trading in division.
wayneroo
Unless Toro is packaged and flipped for Merrifield.
Chris Lee
Royals have quite a few prospects in infield, although utility role would replace Whit’s role. Can Toro play CF?
Biff Tanner
I was hoping the Astros would get him but that was when the Mariners were struggling. I thought there was no chance. I’m surprised.
sonorawind
MLB.TV, via Rosenthal, reporting that Turner was taken out for a “medical reason”..
Monkey’s Uncle
A terminal case of packyourbag-itis?
Oldschoolandthemets1980
I believe Jerry thinks he is playing Mlb The Show instead of management in the real world.
stymeedone
Probably just covid.
Monkey’s Uncle
… well…
… umm…
… yeah, I don’t get it either
sonorawind
Really, unless Dipoto has another move to make involving one of the players just acquired, this is quite a gut-punch to the players RIGHT AFTER LAST NIGHT’S INCREDIBLY EMOTIONAL COMEBACK AGAINST THE TEAM YOU JUST TRADED WITH!!!
Monkey’s Uncle
This cannot be playing well in the Mariners clubhouse right now, that’s for sure.
Kyak
I love how people read the article and then parrot it like they thought of all that info themselves.
Ichi Pujols
So, last year Toro was the #3 ranked prospect in Houston’s system, per Fangraphs. He was rated as a 45+ 3rd base prospect which would have slotted in as about the Mariners #5 prospect – pretty much equivalent to Emerson Hancock (generally thought of as an untouchable player for us).
In case you might have forgotten, this is likely Seager’s last year in Seattle. Toro’s still young and hasn’t gotten a huge opportunity yet in Houston but to think we may have gotten our 3rd baseman of the future for a pitcher on an expiring contract, I’d say, not a shabby deal.
Best to wait until after the deadline before we judge. Who knows what else is in store… (Please let there be more)
tribepride17
I wish teams would stop gifting the Astros great playoff pieces for nothing. They are so stingy with moving prospects but always land impact players at the deadline.
YaGottaBelieve
This is only the beginning. I’m glad to get rid of ‘Gas Can’ Montero. Graveman is good, but has also been lit up at times. Dipoto has said he gets this move has upset the team. But they will see he WILL make the team better this year. So someone either wants Toro as part of a bigger deal to come or is replacing someone who will be part of that deal.
davepond88
Toro in a deal for Whit Merrifield?
Samuel
That must be it.
prf999
JD please play the Aroldis Chapman to Cubs move…..sign Graveman in the off season. Pissed off right now….but realize there’s a bigger picture. Hope to see more to follow…..been a real long time since I’ve had this feeling with my M’s.
Oldschoolandthemets1980
I still remember watching Edgar Martinez hit scoring Griffey Jr. Was A huge Jr fan growing up so when the mets were out of it back then I followed the Mariners as much as I could,great memories.
Oldschoolandthemets1980
Just in Turner has Covid
Ya'll a bunch of salty crybabies
Nope. That would be Trea Turner……..
bigdaddyhacks
I see what you did there. 10/10 would read comments again.
tstats
That was good
Domingo111
The trade is simply a “selling” trade by dipoto. Trading away a rental reliever for a young guy who might not be a star but can be like an average player the next couple years.
I think it is a good move too. The Ms are only one game behind the second WC but they have a negative run differential and have the Yankees and blue Jays only about 2-3 games behind them, fangraphs gives them 6% playoff odds.
I understand it has been a long time but really dipoto needs to do everything to build a good team around kelenic, Julio, Gilbert, hancook, Kirby and the other young guys they have
Gk_holiday
I don’t think SEA fans care about run differential or playoff odds.
JoeBrady
I agree 100%. Graveman is generally not a good player, which is why he only got $1.25M. And even if he remains good for the next two months, he probably still leaves. In exchange, they get someone who looks like a 4.5 year starter.
Barkerboy
Click click Boom!
YourDreamGM
I get trading a rental even if its your closer. They have a good deep pen. They can always pick up another arm still. I even like the player tje received. A few tweaks and more at bats and he could be a solid player. I think they could have received more for graveman. See what happens next few days. Can’t hate on 4 years of extra control.
letsplaytwo
Hey Steve, it’s a three game series that concludes with a day game tomorrow.
MikeD26
Right now it doesn’t make sense, but let’s wait until Friday.
Dogham
This has to be a move to gain what was the Astros’ #3 prospect to flip in a package for Kimbrel and Bryant, Scherzer and Turner, Berrios and Sano, Whitfield and Duffy, etc without having to give up Kelenic, Raleigh, J-Rod, Hancock, Kirby, or Williamson. Otherwise, it doesn’t help THIS year’s team.
raft
Both teams won. The Astros had to decide between Toro and Diaz, they couldn’t keep both in overlapping roles. Same goes to Straw and McCormick, the Astros cannot keep both so trading Toro and Straw/McCormick is painless. Furthermore, the Astros unloaded Smith and took a lotto ticket on Montero. Now, it’s up to each team to develop their plan for the acquired players.
Joshsam Junghuff
The Astros certainly would rather have kept Toro than Diaz. But they certainly are improved for this year by adding Graveman. And the Mariners aren’t giving the Astros Graveman for Aledyms freakin Diaz. Hence….this trade
raft
Diaz is a better hitter and can play IF + OF. He has one more year of team control and without this trade the Astros can’t make it to the WS. How big is that?
Benjamin560
Would love to have gotten Myles Straw in this trade.
raft
Marlins are interested in Straw and Astros in Marte. We’ll see.
norah w.
It feels like this is saying the Mariners aren’t going to try for the wild card this year.
alabama1992
Most teams 9-10 games above .500 are buyers, but not the M’s. Typical Mariners type transaction.
tstats
Most teams at that point don’t have a negative run differential
julyn82001
Graveman was a workhorse with Oakland. Extremely underrated until this season well he was injured too. Toro’s future is ahead. The other two relievers ara a part of the transaction but who knows!? Only time will tell how this trade works out for both involved trading teams.
kylehk58
Giving away your closer who’s been on fire as of recently is a bad move, the Mariners need that kind of a bullpen piece, they didn’t get much to compensate for him either
FOmeOLS
Ok, the Ms traded a pending FA. For two months +playoffs they got a Good return. Now they are going to trade for a cheap reliever with remaining control. Ten bucks says they get Fry or Scott from the Orioles.
Fry is great… Scott gives you ulcers. Neither is expensive.
houkenflouken
I’m down. M’s used to have Fry to it’ll be full circle!
William Gibson
Are the Ms now in a position to trade for R.Rodriguez (CL -Pit) and have him slot into the role Graveman exited? If so, what are they trading to the Pirates?
goastros123
I think both teams benefit from this trade, just to different degrees and in different ways: Houston is a contender whose weakness was their bullpen. Graveman is a rental, but he upgrades their bullpen for this season. Maybe the Astros re-sign him in the offseason. Who knows. Toro never really got a fair shot in Houston due to Bregman and based on what I’ve read, Kyle Seager is an expiring contract. Toro is younger than Seager and he’s under team control for more years. Some times, a hitter just needs a change of scenery. See JD Martinez. If Toro does well, the Mariners got their 3rd basemen of the future. They could also flip him or use him in another trade.
MrAngelFan
“Some times, a hitter just needs a change of scenery.”
Just nope. Dont try to sugarcoat it. Toro is going from a great hitters park with a lineup full of great hitters to a pitcher’s park with a poor hitting lineup. This most likely not change his fortune.
goastros123
There’s nothing sugar coat. It’s true: some players after being traded by their original team. Did I say he could become great? No, I did not. I said it’s possible he is able to find success now that he appears to get a decent chance.
nwvibes
How much longer do you think the Angels will waste Mike Trout’s career?
nwvibes
Toro goes yard in his FIRST AB for the M’s!!! MrAngelFan’s comment aged pretty well…a whole two hours…LMAO
MrAngelFan
@nevibes One AB makes a player good.???? It is pretty obvious that you don’t understand how baseball works. The Ms will miss Graveman’s presence in the pen. They may have been headed to the playoffs before this move, but now they wont because of this move.
Benjamin560
They have a lot better shot than the putrid Angels thats for sure!
nwvibes
@MrAngelFan Nope one AB doesn’t make a player good. But a home run in first AB w the M’s. He then hit another today, so four games in a row. It just makes your initial “hot take” comment seem pretty dumb. You know, dumb? Like believing the overhyped Angels will ever have pitching to make the postseason?
Also, the M’s have a run differential of -52, so the likelihood of them making it this year is highly unlikely. It’s pretty obvious you don’t understand baseball or are somewhat delusional yourself. Cheers.
gotigers68
The night before he HR’s for Houston against the M’s….
Bookbook
Toro doesn’t have to be good to be an upgrade to the M’s offense. Anytime he’s batting in place of Bauers, the upgrade is massive.
WowClown
Developing story Kendall Graveman, was secretly infected with COVID 19 by Jerry to get it into the Astros clubhouse. More as it comes in!!!?
Camden453
I think it’s smart by Dipoto. Graveman was just going to bolt in free agency anyway and you probably got the better 33 innings from him this year before (maybe) fatigue sets in.
Graveman was a scrap heap reliever that they signed for 2/2.75. They got 33 elite innings from him, sold high, and flipped him for 5 years of a good prospect
With 60 games left youre only going to get about 23 more innings from Graveman, innings that are likely to be regressing down from his ridiculous 0.82 ERA
23 relief innings for 5 years of a prospect with above average BB% and power potential is a huge win
Poster formerly known as . . .
The M’s are (or should I say “were”?) fighting for a Wild Card berth and Dipoto just dealt away their closer. How long has it been since the M’s made the playoffs — 20 years? This is what Graveman’s ex-teammates had to say about it:
“Are you (expletive) kidding me?” said the same player. “It never changes. They don’t care about winning. How do you trade him and say you care about winning? And you trade him to Houston? It never changes.”
“He hasn’t come down here,” a player said of Dipoto. “He sits up in his suite, playing fantasy baseball and rips apart our team without telling us anything.”
Another player via text said that “no one has heard a thing,” and later texted: “I’ve seen a lot of teammates walk out that door. But this one hurts the most and is the most (expletive) up. The team deserves an explanation.”
Cap & Crunch
Players aren’t the best judges of how to run a franchise whatsoever
Id have more of a problem If my GM lent an ear to them than sitting in his office doing his job behind closed doors
martevious
They aren’t? Why not? I’m sure there are players who are far better evaluators of talent than any GM is.
Greyhawk
You clearly havn’t watched the M’s this year I used to support JD, but not after this. Don’t extend his contract please. He has no idea how to lead a team. I’m assumming Hanniger is next.
Whiskey and leather balls
Maybe Toro took it personal….that all you guys and gals seemed to think he was a nobody
Greyhawk
Wow, not only did he just give away our best relief pitcher he gave away the leader of the bullpen. Nice job Jerry!
Poster formerly known as . . .
Perhaps Dipoto is in need of an intervention to deal with his compulsive shopping or gambling disorder.
Read the comments from the M’s players. They’re furious at Dipoto for making this trade.
Houndstyle
The players are not GMs either.
Jd may be wrong but he is following a specific strategy that he believes will help his team with their long term goals.
It’s not like he was trying to troll his own plays or fans. We are just being reactionary because it’s easy. We ought to have a sense of perspective.
martevious
Sense of perspective? He traded arguably the best reliever in baseball, at least this year, who is still only 30 years old. And alienated his own clubhouse. How is that supposed to help the team?
Greyhawk
Just to go on record. I have been a supporter of JD since he started the rebuild of the Mariners. If I’m being honest I believe he’s done a great job so far. However, this trade was absolutely horrible and he will no longer have my support. I understand trying to make the team better but you don’t trade away the leader of your pitching staff and your best relief pitcher at the same time when you have a team that is winning.
Benjamin560
Good, see ya!
BKS1110
As an Astros fan, I’m stunned. This strikes me as awful. Graveman is good, but a rental. Montero looks like junk. Meanwhile Toro is a legit prospect who could develop into an everyday player for the next five years. He was one of their best trade chips. I can’t believe they’d give him up for so little. Wow.
Benjamin560
You got an elite arm in Graveman and believe me, it stings just as bad if not more. Kendall’s 2-seamer is just electric! He was a leader in this clubhouse and my hope is we re-sign him in the offseason. This one was hard to swallow for both sides I’d imagine.
martevious
You are crazy! I can’t believe we gave you Graveman for so little.
lsujedi
As an Astros fan, this is a win for everyone. Toro is a legit prospect. I liken him to Teoscar Hernandez. A good, not great prospect who is hopelessly blocked at the big league level and needs every day at bat’s to continue to develop. Capable of becoming a regular and more.
jjd002
Teoscar was a much more well regarded prospect than Toro.
lsujedi
To an extent, yeah. But he also had a lower floor at the time he was traded than Toro.
BenjiB24
You have got to be kidding me!Why?!Why would you trade arguably the best closer in baseball this year to a division rival team your trying to chase. I’m pissed. DiPoto, you’re an idiot. DiPoto better be gone next year.This doesn’t make any sense. How much did they pay you under the table to lose?Why would the owners allow this?!!!This makes me not wanna watch the rest of the year
lsujedi
Got to look at the big picture. I guess it’s possible Graveman would have been resigned, but in today’s market, who knows how much that would cost the M’s with other holes to fill this offseason. So you’re giving up 2 months of graveman in a season where, if you’re being honest, the team’s ceiling is a wild card birth and most likely first round exit. In exchange you’re getting 5 years of a young guy whose floor at this point is a solid utility infielder.
bradthebluefish
I’d like to add that I think Graveman is outperforming his metrics. This is his best year by far. Who knows how long this can last.
martevious
Graveman only became a reliever last year, and has been lights out. Comparing his performance now to his performance when he was a starter is comparing apples to oranges. He is legit.
Paolo1900
Yeah, it’s a bit if a head scratcher… I’d have expected a better return for Graveman– especially from a division rival. He was responsible for some odd transactions when he was GM of the Angels too.
gotigers68
Toro hit a HR for each team on consecutive nights. First time that’s ever happened.
martevious
I liked Dipoto until he did this. Traded the best reliever in the game (he’s the best this year) to a division rival. Graveman is only 30. Lots of years left.
csaaphill
Anderson has lost both times he’s pitched, the bull pin has given up at least or three leads since this awful trade. and today we gave up a 4 to 1 lead to the Yankees. Fire his butt!
Where is it written that in a rebuild you can’t win or go the the playoffs????
ANd loss 5-4 way to go Dipoto I hope they fire you!!!!!
Servais is OK he’s a pretty good manager but Dipoto must GO!
We have or had already good hitting all up and down our lineup Abraham we didn’t really need. Not sure we needed this Anderson but he’s lost both times he’s started so….????
Ok, he’s good but dang it Gravemean and Montero and Chargois? WTF were you thinking?
guille
Hahaha the comments here are gold.
After the trade:
Graveman 0.5 bWAR
Joe Smith 0.7 bWAR
Y’all need to TRUST THE PROCESS hahahaa
Reimagined Mariners
Montero trade aged poorly