The Giants are known to be busy exploring upgrades on the pitching and lineup fronts as the trade deadline approaches, with such names as Starling Marte and Danny Duffy known to be of interest to the NL West leaders. As to what San Francisco is willing to give up in a potential trade, one of the game’s top prospects might be somewhat available, as Susan Slusser of The San Francisco Chronicle writes that “among the team’s most high-profile minor-leaguers, catcher Joey Bart is the most likely player to be available.”
It’s worth noting that this falls well short of the Giants actually dangling Bart in trade talks, nor does it indicate that the club has any particular inclination to move Bart. But, in a trade market where it has become increasingly rare to see blue chip prospects moved in any sort of deal (particularly at the deadline), it is certainly noteworthy that such a highly-touted minor leaguer could be available at all for the right price.
Marco Luciano, Heliot Ramos, and Bart are only the Giants prospects on all of the current top 100 prospect rankings for MLB Pipeline, Fangraphs, and Baseball America, while outfielder Luis Matos appears on the Fangraphs and BA lists. At 24, Bart is the oldest of this group, and the only one to have reached the big leagues, posting a .612 OPS over 117 plate appearances in the last two seasons. Thanks to the canceled 2020 minor league campaign, Bart was promoted to the Show without any Triple-A experience and barely even any Double-A experience, but has been mashing Triple-A pitching this year.
In short, Bart likely hasn’t done anything to have lowered his stock in the eyes of the Giants front office. However, San Francisco’s catching situation has been altered by two factors — Buster Posey’s re-emergence as a star, and the club’s selection of Patrick Bailey with the 13th overall pick in the 2020 draft. It now seems at least plausible that the Giants could exercise their $22MM club option on Posey for the 2022 season, or the Giants could perhaps work out a multi-year extension with the longtime face of the franchise. That could make Posey into a bridge to Bailey as the catcher of the future, leaving Bart somewhat expendable.
Needless to say, the Giants wouldn’t move Bart in just any trade. It is very safe to say that Bart wouldn’t be moved for a rental player, or perhaps even a player only controlled through 2022. But, he stands out as a major trade chip to aid the team in acquiring players who are under longer-term control, or conceivably as part of a multi-player trade that would see the Giants hypothetically land multiple players controlled through 2022.
With a top prospect potentially on offer, it gives Zaidi yet another asset at the trade deadline, beyond the advantage the Giants already have in future payroll commitments. With less than $31MM in payroll committed for the 2022 season, the Giants can certainly absorb a big contract or two. If the Giants can take such a deal off another team’s books, Slusser notes that they might not have to move any top-tier prospects at all, as the other team might accept lesser minor leaguers as the return for the financial relief.
Shocker
I know that if the Giants decide to trade Bart, it’s not going to be for a rental( free agent to be). Zaidi is a genius.
This is pure stupidity. Zaidi hasn’t shown he is capable of doing anything other than sift through the trash. None of his draft picks are showing signs of being future stars and Bart has yet to show his true potential but arguably has the highest ceiling out if all their prospects. Trading him would be a huge mistake.
“Zaidi hasn’t shown he is capable of doing anything other than sift through the trash”
LOL. He has a team with literally baseball’s best record with a bunch of guys he got “sifting through the trash”.
What a pathetically dumb thing to say.
Read what you wrote, you just confirmed exactly what I said.
Yea, he confirmed that exactly what you said was dumb.
Spot on!
I was skeptical myself when Zaidi came over, but he sure has been a great trash picker!
Tonight’s great win sealed the deal for me. I don’t see any reason to trade the future for a rental. If something comes along, okay but the Giants are dealing from a position of strength.
Agreed
the Giants are 61-35 and fans still somehow find a way to complain goddamn
This guy is not a giants fan. Given his previous comments I think it may be a stretch to even call him a baseball fan.
Okay lol a 24 year old has the highest ceiling. Did you forget about Luciano and Helliot. because arguably Luciano has the highest ceiling in all of the minors. You guys have arguably a top 5 system on the come up with guys like Luciano, Helliot, Ramos, and Canorio. So giving up on Bart whos star is fading as a prospect maybe a wise move if you can get a solid long term piece. Especially with all the up coming guys you have
I never post but That comment is so wrong. You May be a fan but a clueless fan
CT4:
Bart’s star is fading?
He currently has a .936 OPS in AAA.
@giant4life wow you are a miserable “fan.” Farhan is universally regarded as one of the best executives in all of baseball.
I guess I would argue Luciano has a higher ceiling.
Did you just say Farhan hasn’t done anything? What planet are you on? When he took over the Giants were under.500 for the 3rd year in a row, their payroll was bloated, & their farm was horrific. Fast forward a few years later to today (since Farhan took over). Now how’s their record? How bout payroll, are they into the luxury tax? Oh, what about the farm system? Also, don’t listen to what the media says, their goal is to get you to read their columns. Do you think Farhan called this reporter & was like “bro I’m thinking about trading Joey Bart, will you write an article because I really need the fans to help me out on this.” Everything coming out are smoke screens. We’ve heard of Matte, Danny Duffy, Zach Davies, etc. Farhan said, “we need starting pitching & an outfielder. He doesn’t day anything about a closer. But watch, SF will land a legitimate closer & Joey Bart isn’t going anywhere. But by putting it out there (that Bart’s available), now GMs are calling him. It’s the old bait-n-switch
Good post! Although I was skeptical at first, Farhan has won me over. He’s an excellent evaluator of talent. The fact that he came from the Dodgers made me have the wary eye for enemy infiltrators! But I’m generally satisfied by the makeup of the current team. No need to trade for a Matt Moore look a like. No bullpen is perfect, but this one is pretty dang good. I’m more concerned with who will be knocked off the current roster when certain players return from the injury list.
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Bart’s not going Anywhere. He can play first, backup catcher. There is no way. To high of a ceiling to excell some place else.
He’s how old?
Bart is not going anywhere – yet. Currently, in A Ball, Bailey I struggling mightily and is not an option this or next, it would seem.
What makes Bart a potentially great player is that he’s a catcher. Put him at first and he’s no longer a franchise-altering talent.
Same as every time people suggested moving Posey to first base in the past. Posey will make the HOF because he’s a catcher, as a first baseman he’d merely have been good.
There’s no problem having Bart and Posey split time behind the plate next year though, especially if there ends up being an NL DH.
As reference see Joe Mauer
Barts bat is coming around. if he can hit it doesnt matter where he plays.
It does appear he still has some learn in big league game calling though. But, yes, he is an awesome asset in general.
You just can’t trade away elite prospects in today’s MLB. Elite level prospects are the most valuable thing in all of baseball today. An infinite demand, an extremely, extremely small supply.
Having those elite prospects turn into MLB players where they are producing well and getting paid peanuts is far and away the easiest way to build a great team. You take that production while paying nothing, then go out and spend big in FA.
Yea, you can’t trade away elite prospects in today’s MLB. Elite level prospects are the most valuable thing in all of baseball today. An infinite demand, an extremely, extremely small supply.
Having those elite prospects turn into MLB players where they are producing well and getting paid peanuts is far and away the easiest way to build a great team. You take that production while paying nothing, then go out and spend big in FA.
Wow. If theyre dangling Bart, i’d expect a few more teams decide to become sellers.
Let’s get Bryan Reynolds back
No to Reynolds but I’m sure that the Pirates would be willing to deal Frazier for Bart.
Idk about no to Reynolds but if we could find a way to get him and Frazier for semi cheap that would be amazing
Why exactly would the Pirates trade Reynolds and Frazier for “semi cheap”?
I think the Pirates would have to add a little more. Maybe a three team deal:
Pirates get: Bart (SF) and two prospects (1 top 10, 1 top 20) (3rd team)
Giants get: Frazier, Stratton, a top 30 prospect (3rd team)
3rd team gets: Rodriguez
Pirates gain Bart, a prospect of note and a lotto ticket for Frazier, Rodriguez and Stratton
Giants gain a versatile lead off hitting machine, a high leverage pitcher and a lotto ticket for Bart
Third team gains a closer for 3 of their top 30 prospects
Because when have the Pirates ever sold anyone for anything but cheap?
What is the biggest haul the Pirates have ever gotten? It seems like the Pirates gave up more for Chris Archer than they ever got back in return for guys like Gerrit Cole, Jameson Taillon, starling marte and josh bell.
Going back a little further the Jason Schmidt and Aramis Ramirez trades come to mind as well.
Horrible trade!! Bart himself should get a major league caliner player and another top 15 pick. He would be in the majors right now if he wasn’t behind this year’s best catcher and sure hall of famer.
Well, they got Bryan Reynolds for a fading McCutcheon.
The pirates just drafted a catcher why get Bart in a trade. If they wanted Bart they should’ve made the trade b4 the mlb draft
Because 99.9% of draft picks don’t make majors for at least 5 years?
Does “99% of draft picks don’t make majors for at least 5 years” apply to college hitters taken first overall? You’re right in the sense that the Pirates should be targeting best available talent instead of being worried about future position alignment. But it seems kind of silly to lump in all draft picks when talking about a top college draft pick let alone the first pick.
LOL!
99.9% of the overall 1-1 picks, out of college, don’t make the majors for at least 5 years? Did you put even 2 seconds of thought into that statement?
Cause then we can flip stallings the catcher we drafted is 2 years away minimum. We have no other catchers of not above A+ ball
Pirates aren’t trading Reynolds. They’ve already balked at talks with the Astros over him and plan on building around him. Unless someone comes offering a massive, massive overpay (like 2x more than what the Pirates gave up for Archer), he ain’t going anywhere.
Not happening the buccos would be idiots to trade Reynolds. Especially to the giants with such a thin farm.
Giants have a deep farm that’s top 10 on most sites
Marte plus BP arm with Bart as the main pierce coming back to the Fish.
Get it done, Ng!
Marte is a rental that’s not nearly enough for Bart
That conversation starts with Marte and a controllable, talented starting pitcher, not a random bullpen piece.
Add in one of their starters and now you might have something.
That would be the dumbest trade ever…
Not really shocking. They need to start clearing their 40 man roster and he wasn’t picked by Farhan. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dubon is dealt.
Zaidi traded Pomeranz for Dubon. He was president and GM at that time.
Who picked Bart? I thought Sabean and Evans did.
Bart was definitely before Zaidi
Susan Slusser has no idea what she’s talking about her. Shocking she would say this…
I feel like it would be like when the Indians traded Mejia for Hand and Cimber. IF they trade Bart, which is a huge IF, it’d have to be for a game changer either in CF or the back of the bullpen
Kris Bryant + extension in the works?
Hope so!
I’d go all in and try to get both Bryant and Kimbrel (obviously would have to add another piece or two). Bryant is a rental so I don’t think the Giants would trade Bart for just him
This has merit, I think. Real blockbuster ingredients here, like a 3 for 5, maybe 6. If SanFrancisco is so inclined, this works for everybody.
Bryant + Kimbrel + Hendricks for Bart
As a Giants fan we’d need to give more imo. Kimbrel is without a doubt the best reliever available and he’s got an option for next year. Also Hendricks has control.
Correct. Kimbrel is game over closer, the best. Adding on, say Bryant and Hendricks, requires San Francisco to cross the Proverbial River, and seriously deplete their very top prospects. I agree, there is a mega deal here. It offers San Francisco everything they need for a title. But, pay they must.
I’d just skip on Hendricks personally. Bryant and Kimbrel could be got with Bart, maybe like a Wilson/Toribo type prospect and a lotto ticket imo
Baseballtradevalues.com has kendricks/Bryant/kimbrel as equivalent value as Bart. However, in a perfect world, the Giants hold bart and just add Heyward to the deal. The offsetting money may or may not have more value to the Cubs than the prospect net.
Could be. I do think Chicago would eye elsewhere then, too. For Chicago, the bigger the better. Toronto offers them close to, I guess maybe even what San Francisco can offer in prospects. Really, I guess, who wants it more.
The total values are the same, but this is not a realistic trade. A more realistic trade would be Bryant for Bart and cash to pay salary. I don’t think SF needs the cash so maybe the Cubs would throw in Chafin or Tepera and the Giants would include a prospect outside their top 30.
I think Kimbrel should get an overpay due to bids at the deadline.
Hendricks is staying.
Bryant is a rental. Farhan is not giving up a Top 10 prospect for a rental.
Hahahahhahaha
Bart alone doesn’t get 2 of those 3 guys 1-1. But 3-1? Phew this is worse than the check swing call
@BeforeMcCourt Did you see the 2-0 call to Ruf? If that’s properly called a strike Ruf walks before the check swing
If Bart moves, he’s likely the highest ranked prospect that will change teams this deadline. I’m not sure you appreciate how rare it is to have a top 20 prospect available for trade. Kimbrel has a 14m salary cap hit and was awful as recently as last year. Bryant is a 2 month rental. If the trade is off in value, it’s not off by much.
@gmen, blown ball/strikes happened 17 times in Wednesday game(last night data not available yet). Let’s conservatively extrapolate and say ~60 missed calls in the 4 game set
You think a one of ~60 occurrence of an event is the same as having two umpires (HALF THE CREW) blow a call the directly alters the games decision? How many blown check swings that were referred down to a 2nd umpire can you remember being missed, all year? I’d bet it’s less than the # of missed ball/strikes in the last 4 games
Kimbrel has an all star borderline HOF pedigree and comes with two World Series runs, while holding an ERA under 1 and a market value contract. Who TF cares what his value used to be?
Hendricks is a very good 2/3 with a multi year contract WAY under market value. How often is this type of player traded at the deadline, ever? How often is this player part of a 3 player MLB package that nets 1 player?
Oh let’s not forget the MVP candidate throw in
Bart is an overpay for Bryant alone most likely. Even if Bart’s value is down it’s higher than that. Otherwise? Laughable
@McCourt, Yes actually i do. Normally i would agree with you that those 2 calls are not close. But you are trying to compare a missed ball/strike earlier in the game, to a missed Ball call in the same at bat as the check swing. That pitch was a foot off the plate and it was called a strike. Jansen had just thrown 4 straight balls (that would have been 5) and had missed them by a good amount, so if that count goes to 3-0, you have to figure Jansen is throwing a fastball on 3-0 and then again on 3-1 to Darren Ruf, who might be the best fastball hitter on the Giants.
So yes, that missed ball call in that scenario, was just as bad as the missed check swing
Bad calls were spread evenly. Jansen blew it. Move on.
BeforeMcCourt:
Actually, I remember a blown check-swing call going against the Giants just recently, maybe a week ago, against the Cards, I think. It also was in a crucial situation which cost the Giants. It happens more often than you think.
And the problem is there is a great variance in what individual umpires see as a swing. It was a bad call, I agree. And it’s something MLB needs to address.
@BeforeMcC
You’re leaving out the fact that BOTH of those blown calls happened in the SAME critical, penultimate at bat – not some, happens-all-the-time, random situation. That called strike-one, was just as egregiously bad – IN THAT MOMENT – as the check-swing call was moments later. And you’re not acknowledging just how BAD that strike call was – WAY farther outside the zone than than a typical bad call strike – and he gave it to a pitcher who was all over the place and hadn’t done anything to “deserve” such a gift!
I don’t know if it was poetic justice or or any kind of justice at all, but I do know that umpires are human/fallible and it can cut both ways, no matter what the situation is or who you’re rooting for. That, sometimes to your benefit – sometimes to your loss – is baseball. And everybody that’s ever cared about the outcome of a game, knows it going in.
But hey, bring on the electric strike zone. And maybe find a tech solution to check-swing calls too, if possible.
The K-zone or whatever each network has its the same tech in different packaging. It gets the width right but the height is not close to accurate.
That’s laughable.
No way,the Cubs are giving all that up for just Bart!
I could see Bart going to the Rangers for Gallo and Gibson.
Gallo and kennedy would be more helpful for the giants
Bart would be a great get for the Marlins in a Marte trade, though obviously they’d have to give up a lot more (likely a young arm). Alfaro’s failed to prove himself as their catcher. Packaging a half year of Marte to convert one of their pithing prospects into a big league ready catcher would be huge.
I don’t know the Marlins’ farm enough tbh but obviously I’d consider Rogers and Sanchez untouchable, after that do they have any really good young arms?
Something like a Joey Bart for Starling Marte and Elieser Hernandez could work. Hernandez is currently on the 60-day IL, but he’s got 3 years of team control beyond this year.
Maybe alcantara, but it looks like he’s on bereavement list (sucks). I knew when Bart got called up before the all star break (and did well) that they were showing off his improvement from last season that could lead up to an eventual trade. One tough thing is the giants have a bunch of people they can theoretically package that are out of options. The way everyone claims what we dfa there’s at least some value in those guys just not as much to the giants who will be facing a roster crunch with everyone coming off the dl, and possible acquisitions on the horizon.
I feel like Alcantara stepping up and being a clubhouse leader, wanting the ball in the playoffs and other actions might leave him in very high regard with the FO.
They love most of their main guys but I could see Lopez going.
Then you have Holloway, Neidert, Garret, Poteet and Thompson as other guys starting. Most with control and upside. Maybe a larger package could do it because isn’t the entire Giants rotation FAs next season? They would want a controllable starter. That could leave us to hopefully find a high upside lottery ticket or two for Yimi Garcia.
It all depends on health too as Alcantara and Lopez just missed their first starts. I imagine Meyer and Rogers absolutely untouchable. Sixto could possibly be pried away but that would be a big trade. The Marlins old FO loved trading minor leaguers dominating one year in the minors (Eder who is currently having one of the best minor league pitching seasons in baseball at the moment) and he may have never factored in to plans. Maybe throw him in.
It’s an absolute shame because the reality who do you let go of? The fish are high on their SPs…. But one at least has to go for a bat very very soon.
If Sixto was healthy, I could see the Giants very interested. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.
The Giants aren’t getting Alcantara for Joey Bart.
I’d love for it to happen, but it absolutely will not. Hernandez would be a stellar pickup.
Most teams would risk it for him. He’s shown he can be special, it’s a matter of getting it out.
And when I say a team would risk it, I mean if they had a very highly regarded prospect at a position where they didn’t exactly need it (As the Giants seem with catcher).
I wasn’t saying a 1:1 Bart for alcantara but the giants have a lot of extra pieces of the roster and veterans coming back from injury that will need their roster spots. Could package 1or 2 of them to offset prospect cost possibly just depends on how Miami values the giants depth.
Giants must think much higher of Genoves than Bart as their catcher of the future…not too surprising there.
They likely see Posey returning next year, so that buys another year of development for the guys younger than Bart (who will be 25 this winter).
Trading Bart now is the best bet.
probably more likely Bailey
Let’s see another Zach Wheeler for Carlos Beltran trade.
They did like few years later when they traded Reynolds for McCutchen. And to be clear it wasn’t even a full Beltran because he instantly hit the DL. Maybe 30-40 games for wheeler… disgusting
This is interesting. It’s seems like a reverse tactic. Follow me…
Giants have an eye on a particular player on a certain team they want. The team that has the player they want contacts the Giants. (Let’s say the team and player is Luis Garcia for the Astros), the Astros want Joey Bart really bad but the Giants asking for Garcia makes the Astros hesitant. The Giants tell the Astros Bart isn’t available anyways.
After sitting on the knowledge of the Astros wanting Bart for a couple days, they say publicly he’s available. Other teams come with offers, perhaps a better offer, however, they still want Garcia. They would then have the leverage to ask for more than just Garcia, especially if another team is presenting a better package. If the Astros want Bart bad enough, they’ll cave in. And not nothing, but the Astros really need a catcher and the Giants really need a good young arm. Both still win even if the Astros overpay.
When negotiating, never say yes to the first offer.
This assumes a demand that is unwilling to explore other options or that assumes other options don’t exist.
What a great #2 overall pick. Looking to move him 3 years later. Suppose it’s better than Mark Appel tho.
If they have faith in Posey, their last pick and their wallet then they can afford this. They are performing so well when no one counted them in. The current rotation is performing so well. Add a bat and a good reliever and you may see some more Giants magic. Especially if they get a good starter that will be there next year with a guy performing like Marte.
Bart hasn’t done anything wrong as the #2 pick. He was brought up way to early with very little training or experience last season. This season given the chance at the level he should have been at last year he has overall succeeded (though still needs to cut down on strikeouts)
In the giants defense their dealing from a position of depth, and in regards to the #2 pick maybe they value it a little less since they bought the angels first rounder Wil Wilson just for taking on that cozart contract.That said I don’t see the giants making a huge push at the deadline they already have roster issues. More than likely they are dangling something to see if someone will bite and to gauge the market for a good redundant player who plays a premium position.
I find reporting on this sort of speculation as completely irresponsible.
It’s one thing if some “executive” or “person within the team” made a statement, but to write an article on a reporter that is simply voicing an opinion and then concluding, ‘”it is certainly noteworthy that such a highly-touted minor leaguer could be available at all for the right price.”‘
There is not a single element of Susan Slusser’s article to support the statement that Joey Bart is available.
They’re rumors bro.
What else do you want them to write about? Injuries? Minor league signings?
This is the stuff most of us want to see.
Just saying
Dont see the Marlins getting Bart in some sort of Marte deal…
I could however see Marte, 1 or 2 of Garcia/Floro/Bleier/Bass, and potentially 1 of Braxton Garrett or Nick Meidert, if necessary, for Kyle Harrison, Aeverson Arteaga, Ricardo Genoves and Caleb Kilian…maybe replace 1 or 2 of them with Will Wilson in a shorter deal? None of those guys, besides Kilian, is anywhere close to the big leagues…
Marte doesn’t have much money remaining on his deal for the rest of the season, putting up star numbers, and seems like he may be relatively cheaper to sign than you would think…
A couple of those bullpen arms are well used to pitching in that division, and I could see 1 of those pitching prospects, if included, helping with their lack of depth near the big leagues, as well as potentially getting a bit of a boost stylistically, in those ballparks
Yeah, the Giants aren’t giving up Harrison for a couple of rentals and a high variance reliever, let alone anyone else to go along with him.
This seems relatively even to me, and not too far off from what the Marlins gave up for Marte themselves, except the prospects going back arent close to the big leagues, and other pieces coming with Marte to make up for that extra year…Harrison isnt one of their top top prospects, and is in A ball. You can make anything sound like its worthless when you phrase it like that…Marte is potentially a rental, but he is also putting up star production this year at low cost (and might be signable), Bleier is an elite groundball guy that doesnt walk anyone and is controlled another year or 2 (cant remember), Garcia has been a good backend reliever, and Garrett is a LH starter close to the big leagues.
Not saying this gets done, especially since the Marlins never get value in trades, but it’s not some crazy fantasy
“Harrison isnt one of their top top prospects, and is in A ball.”
He’s a Top 10 prospect in their system, and Zaidi knowingly went underslot to pick up Harrison as his 4th pick in 2020. He didn’t go significantly overslot to trade Kyle Harrison for a couple of rentals.
I didnt suggest he wasnt a good prospect. I had him on my draft big board last year. Would have to look at it to tell you where…but I’m saying he isn’t currently one of their top 6ish guys. Also, we’ve seen multiple occasions the last few years where teams traded a recent draft pick, and they have other young arms that don’t come with the command issues he currently does. Also, he is currently far away from the big leagues…and Garrett is also a top 10 Marlins prospect, although he hasnt entirely been the same since he had an injury, but he is relatively similar to Harrison stylistically (similar to Andrew Heaney), with a little less velocity, and is in AAA/the big leagues with 6 years of control. I also mentioned Bleier has another year or 2 of control behind him…
Again, it’s easy to say “a couple of rentals” and act like that’s worthless, when you ignore 1 of them is a star CFer making very little money, and potentially willing to sign for not much…
And to clarify, I’m not saying this gets done, but value wise it’s pretty close…I had never heard of that website someone else mentioned in a post above, but I plugged this in out of curiosity, and sure enough, it was even, not that it has any credibility, just thought I’d mention that…
All I’m saying is to act as though this is some type of ridiculous proposal is questionable, when they have been linked to a couple of the players in question. Even you yourself mentioned Bart as a possibility, just with the inclusion of the injured Elieser Hernandez, who hasnt done much outside of a couple of months
…*Neidert
Definitely Marte for Bart is a no go I imagine unless miracles happen. They could use Yimi but both are rentals. They need a controllable starter. Garret hasn’t been the same since TJ. Holloway and Neidert have some good upside. You can throw in a lottery ticket in Elisier since he’s hurt but great when healthy.
Point is the Giants needs controllable pitching. The Marlins need a bat (or three) and have amazing SP depth and prospects. Who blinks first?
I dont neccesarily agree with the idea the Marlins have a wealth of depth, and should trade pitching for bats just for the sake of doing so. Honestly, I like the idea of continuing to build up, and going for specific opportunities. The Marlins could use a couple of bats, and significant help in the bullpen, and a veteran starter to get them innings. That’s true. That being said, Marte is a good opportunity for them, and they still wont sign him. So, trading him for pieces to help the organization is all that matters. I personally think pitching is something they need to continue to look to add in the next year or so, as their scouting director also referred to after the draft, and corner bats is also a need, to add to the up the middle athleticism they’ve targeted the last couple of years
They definitely have a lot of starting pitchers and nothing offensive wise that I’m excited to see. Aside from the main guys known you have Edward Cabrera (who some scouts think is better than Sixto) and Max Meyer. Jake Eder who is living up to his hype at the moment. Neidert, Halloway, Thompson, Poteet, and Hernandez who can all be good 4-5th starters.
They have to rely on Bleday, J Sanchez, and Lewin Diaz for future offense. Right now none of them look like that could replace Aguilar, Duvall, or Marte. They need BA back and healthy, Jazz healthy AND trending upwards and some of those prospects to do something to get anywhere next year. This offense has been bad. It gets way too cold for too long and then bursts out for 3 games.
Or they can sign a bat FA. Let’s face it, that’s something you have to see to believe. So right now adding offense with trades is the way to go.
That supposed wealth of depth only goes so far. The moment a couple of guys get injured and a couple of guys fall off, what are you left with? This exact thing has happened to the Marlins multiple times in the last several years. Even right now, they have 2 healthy SPs, 1 of which is a rookie. They didnt sign a veteran arm to give them innings, and now they have 3 games out of 5 being started by the bullpen…its a fallacy to think they have enough depth to give away pitching. The Markins payroll is non existant moving forward. I think it’s better to pay for a couple of bats, a veteran SP, and a couple of bullpen arms, than 5o trade your affordable SPs. Like, the type of player you’re trying to get back in deals like that is literally Starling Marte, but they’re not even keeping him…All of that being said, I’ve heard the Marlins are supposedly claiming to be doing something “big” in the next few days, whether or not that is separate from Marte, and speculation is they’re going to trade 1 or 2 of Cabrera, Meyers, Eder, Mccacmbley, Eury Perez, Dax Fulton, and I personally think that is a questionable decision, the same way I didnt like a couple of the previous trades they made, outside of the one for Jesus Sanchez…I’ve also heard they’re specifically looking at CF and Catcher for next season, which again, I point to Marte and the likelihood of equaling that production, and I’ve also heard they’re not trading Aguilar or Rojas. Regardless, most of the Marlins future offense is still in the lower minor leagues, so the idea of quick fixes by creating depth issues in a supposed area of strength is a questionable decision, at the least…I also question the idea that their biggest issue this year has been bats, when they’ve had the SP issues, and the bullpen has been terrible in any semblance of high leverage situations.
I also am not a fan of the strategy of “calling the bluff” of Watson, but that’s a separate issue, although it does relate to the historic problem the Marlins organization have had for almost the last 20 years, which is smugness attitude
Ugh on Watson I know nothing, so if you’re saying “call bluff” I don’t like it. Does he want over slot?
I don’t think Meyer is going anywhere. And while I obviously know what’s going on this season the SP depth that would be ready next year is still the deepest thing we have. So you can gamble on it. Because it would be easier to see your error and get the veteran innings eater they should have this season. I haven’t studied next year’s FA class like I should, but the easiest thing to fix this team is actually spend money on a plus bat. But with that I mean REAL money. With Marte I understand not wanting to commit 50mil to a 33-36 year old who at the time with us has slowed down sometimes. It’s going to be interesting what they do I guess. But since we know they won’t spend real money is the main reason they will have to trade starters.
I don’t mind the Sanchez trade. Anderson is great and all but he got hurt and at the end is a BP arm on the older side. I forget the name of the picture given up (Trevor Williams? Tall, good change) I don’t think they can amount to the upside Jesus could bring. Unlike Brinson, Sanchez still has time to work out.
Ugh Watson… They have 15 of 21 signed with a little over 4mill left… I know pick 2 and 3 were signed. I had to edit this to fix the number left and read about him .. sounds bad. I would say offer him 5 and think about it.
I was actually saying the only one I liked was the one for Jesus Sanchez
Pretty much, the Marlins have slightly less than $4.6 million left in their pool for Watson. It sounds like they are banking on the idea, “will you, as a HS kid, really pass on that type of money to go to school for 3 years? This is the amount we have. This isnt free agency. So you can take that overslot amount that would pay you like a top 10 pick, or go to school over a couple hundred thousand dollars difference.” They’re essentially challenging him. My guess is he wanted somewhere in the $5 million-$5.5 million range, and I could see an uber talented, high confidence kid like him passing and betting on himself, but hopefully I’m wrong, and we complete this big time draft off
As for Marte, I think they should give him the 4th year. It’s not much in AAV, and they could just trade him with more control, either in the offseason or next year b/c I personally believe a team would take that on if he continues to play like he has, or even a bit less than he has. 4 years/$48-55 million for a star CFer is nothing, even at his current age, which hasnt shown any signs of being an issue
That being said, I think the real play is to keep building up, and do what’s best for the organization long term, which is why I wouldnt move young pitching, unless it’s for something that would really matter, or if you dont believe what we’ve seen from guys like Eder or McCambley is real, and want to cash in on them while you can…Marlins have been connected to Buxton and Mullins. Buxton is a FA, so that makes little sense, if you’re moving Marte, but Mullins feels like such a Marlins type of move, where they give up way too much, which I would prefer not to see
Wake up Giants fans. After Buster’s renaissance season, if they don’t pick up the $22 mil option for 2022, they’ll almost certainly sign him to a 3-4 year extension — 4th year being another option — and before you go crazy saying they won’t go four years, when you’re Buster Posey, you get that extra season/money based on track record & the likelihood it’d be his FINAL contract… Therefore, Bart would be 29 by the time the catching spot opens up. And the guy is TERRIBLE at First Base, w/ no obvious athleticism showing he can improve.
Get rid of the overrated PROSPECT now for whatever you can get if you’re Zaidi. The Giants are vastly overachieving this season, have the #1 record in the game, & won’t be in this position for another 5+ seasons after this one. So y’all better shoot your shot NOW when it comes to moving the highly overrated nerd, Bart.
Well, if he’s a nerd…
Danieley3, apparently everything about the Giants to you is overrated, Bart overrated, the Giants record overrated, the Giants future overrated. At some point have to accept reality is a part of life. The Giants are a good team with many veterans who have had successful careers, and some who have finally figured out how to use their skills (see Gausman and DeScalfani). Lots of talk about how the dodgers have been injured this year, but so have the Giants, they’ve also blown 18 saves this season, if they held on to half of those games they would be at 70 wins already (I know ifs are part of the game).
I do agree with one thing you said, Posey will be with the team next season, and possibly 2 more after that. Health will always be a concern from here on out for Posey at the age of 34 and beyond. If they trade Bart it won’t be for a simple rental, it will be for someone that will help this season and the future.
I agree. Hitting a pot of gold with rentals like Scutaro are rare. I think there is a tendency to over analyze the statistics of our outfielders. While mostly hitting under the considered virtuous line of .250, they’ve all had their great moments. They are team players, root for one another and play hard. Don’t make a deal if it might mess with team chemistry. Look at what Bauer and Puig have done to the Dodgers.
There’s just so much wrong here. Lol
Def not
Zaidi is shooting for scherzer because he needs front end pitching to win in October.
Good luck going up against a hot deGrom, Darvish or Buehler in the playoffs.
He needs studs at the top of the rotation.
Zaidi isn’t trading Bart for Bryant, Marte, Scherzer, or any other rental, extension or not.
Well, an extension would mean that it’s not really a rental. Honestly, I think if Bryant is offered with the condition that he agrees to an extension, than you take that deal. Bart, though extremely promising, is still unproven at the ML level, whereas Bryant is a proven All-Star caliber player with no reason to believe he won’t continue being that for the next few years at least.
That being said, I seriously doubt Bryant agrees to that, as I feel it’s for certain he wants to test free agency this off-season.
I don’t think Marte is valuable enough to give up Bart for, even with an extension.
“…an extension would mean that it’s not really a rental.”
In terms of trade value, yes, it absolutely remains a rental. Rentals have reduced value because of impending free-agency. Overpaying, simply because a player agrees to an extension, is still an overpay.
By overpaying the trading team is rewarded beyond the actual value of the player they’re trading. The player traded doesn’t care who is traded for them, and sees no advantage from the acquiring team overpaying.
And if a team can sign a pending FA to an extension, they can sign him after he reaches free-agency. Yes, there is value in the 2 months of a rental, but an extension is irrelevant to that value. Bart’s upside
versus Bryant’s established value is also irrelevant.
It makes no sense for the acquiring team. or the player. It only rewards the trading team who did nothing but trade the guy to the highest bidder.
Trading Bart would be an overpay for any of those rentals. No one ranked as high as Bart will be traded for Bryant.
@TAD2B13 You may be right,Bart might be asking alot for Bryant. However,if you’re talking Kimbrel
I don’t see the need to cash in Bart. SFG already looks like a shoo-in to the playoffs as is. If anything, having Bart (who has had a great season in AAA) come up in September is more valuable than turning him into a couple of win-now pieces that Zaidi could probably acquire anyways through other means.
Even with Buster’s resurgence, Bart is not redundant. Provided Posey re-signs, he is unlikely to play everyday for years to come. And with Belt not likely to be re-signed, Bart might get a lot of future reps at 1B while splitting catching duties. .
I think the big thing is that if you move Bart it is for controllable starting pitching and a lottery ticket or 2. Right now the giants for next year have a confirmed rotation consisting of Logan Webb and…. Nobody else. You probably aren’t going to get the rest of your rotation easily in free agency and you can’t expect everyone to come back though you would hope desclafani and gausman can come back. The other thing is posey is a factor as a bridge but the even bigger thing is that genoves is rising fast and casali if you can bring him back has been great behind the plate and has turned things around offensively as well. Bailey is actually still figuring things out, he hasn’t quite put it together yet…..
I don’t see why Gausman and Disco wouldn’t come back next year – all it should take is a longer contract (which they’ve earned), and the Giants have the money to do that. I can’t imagine either guy would want to go somewhere else if they can get paid to stay on a good team.
The Giants can guarantee those contracts and continue to search for high upside guys who might be a little off the radar, but will thrive at Oracle Park.
Is Cleveland’s Jose Ramirez available? Giants have one of the best farm systems when it comes to position players. Cleveland can develop their own pitching. I know it’d take a lot but they could also seemingly use a long term catcher in Bart. Just a thought.
Can J Ram play LF? Don’t get me wrong he’s better than most Giants position players but I feel extremely comfortable at every position except LF…heck when Belt comes back just make Wade the everyday LF and we still might be okay.
Agree. Wade has been wonderful since coming up and has eased any desperate need for a trade. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
He’s available because they drafted that other top prospect catcher a few seasons ago.
Every time I hear about players being traded to San Francisco, I think they might be Giants.
I see what you did there.
That’s nobody’s business but the Turks!
I have a feeling Farhan Zaidi is looking at Kris Bryant and possibly Craig Krimbel?
To me, Bryant makes too much sense, can play multiple positions, playoff experience, would fit in well with this clubhouse etc.
No. No player in baseball is worth giving up a prospect of Bart’s caliber for a rental or two. If you like him, just sign him this off-season. Obviously doesn’t help now, but giving up Bart for a half year of Bryant is just ridiculous, that even if you do include a relief pitcher. And Bryant’s not accepting an extension this close to free agency. Unless it’s a massive overpay, and then in that case just wait for the winter.
“Bart likely hasn’t done anything to have lowered his stock in the eyes of the Giants front office.”
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Sorry Mark, but he absolutely has lowered his stock. His AAA K/W is 50/12. His MLB K/W is 43/3. This doesn’t mean that you write the guy off, but his stock is definitely down. This is after a 21/7 in AA and 50/14 in A+.
While I wouldn’t mind trading for him, there is no way I’d be paying top dollar any more.
JoeBrady:
His MLB stats are irrelevant. Every team out there understands he was thrown into situation he wasn’t ready for.
You’ve focused on strike outs, or K/BB ratio more specifically, and ignored everything else. Yes, strike outs are bad, but most teams don’t mind a lot of Ks if the guy still gets on base at a decent rate. Bart has a .383 OBP, and a .936 OPS at AAA
He had a .368 OBP at AA, notorious, with it’s big parks, for being a pitchers league. His OBP for all levels is .374.
Those kind of offensive numbers are rare in a catcher. And believe me, other teams covet that kind of production out of that position. There was a reason why, several months ago, MLBTR posted an item about teams calling the Giants about Bart. If traded, any team that acquires Bart will be paying top dollar.
I don’t completely disagree, but like I said, I wouldn’t mind trading for him, but he is no longer a top-tier prospect, and that affects is trade value. The way I see it, his floor might be Zunino, which is still pretty solid, and he could be better.
But I also have found that minor league walks are overrated. They seem to disappear when pitchers find your weakness(es).
I wonder what John Barr thinks of Joey Bart.
Rangers please the catchers here cant hit.
Here’s a thought: Means or Mullins to SF, Bart to TB, a few of the Rays’ never-ending roster of prospects to BAL.
Not sure I’m sold on Means, but Mullins would be terrific in the SF outfield. Problem is, Giants need starting pitching—young, top of the line starting pitching—and Baltimore doesn’t have it.
What about sonny gray controlled thru 2024 for Bart? How fair is that??
I don’t think that is a bad suggestion but I would think the Reds are happy with their young catcher in Tyler Stephenson and I wouldn’t be surprised if they moved Tucker Barnhart if a team came calling to get Stephenson even more at bats and playing time.
To bad Duffy is injured. I would have offered Merrifield and Duffy for Bart and some other pretty good/decent prospect.
Yankee fans… “andujar and frazier for Bart.”
LOL
While I definitely wouldn’t think that Bart is untouchable, I also have a hard time believing that the Giants would part with him if they weren’t getting a long-term quality player in return. Definitely not being moved for a rental.
Exactly. All these trades being suggested in the comments (for rental) are mins bogglingly stupid.
Bart will replace Posey. The Giants are not trading Bart, Luciano or Ramos.
No way,the Cubs are giving all that(Bryant,Kimbrel,AND a controllable Hendricks)up for just Bart! What are you smoking?
Pirates need him until the first pick gets there….
What’s up Kapler’s Ronald McDonald shoes? I have to my shades on when comes out of the dugout.
Trading Joey Bart would be the most asinine thing ever. The elite level prospects are The most valuable thing in all of baseball today. An infinite demand, an extremely, extremely small supply.
Having those elite prospects turn into MLB players where they are producing well and getting paid peanuts is far and away the easiest way to build a great team. You take that production while paying nothing, then go out and spend big in FA.
Quite honestly, the Giants can’t afford to trade away any of their top 8 to 10 prospects… after this season they only have three guaranteed contracts on the books Longoria McGee and La Stella. Obviously that’s not counting the players under team control (like arbitration eligible players or team options (like Posey), but the Giants are going to need to fill a ton of roster spots any immediate future. They cannot afford to trade away their cheap young prospects because they’re the key piece to being able to build a very good team.
You just can’t trade away elite prospects in today’s MLB. Elite level prospects are the most valuable thing in all of baseball today. An infinite demand, an extremely, extremely small supply.
Having those elite prospects turn into MLB players where they are producing well and getting paid peanuts is far and away the easiest way to build a great team. You take that production while paying nothing, then go out and spend big in FA.
@TAD2B13 You may be right,Bart might be asking alot for Bryant. However,if Giants are talking Kimbrel. Then they start around Bart and figure out who else you’re willing to give up. Dominate closers are game changers in the playoffs!