The Giants are a “key” team to watch as the Marlins market center fielder Starling Marte in the coming weeks, reports Craig Mish of the Miami Herald. Miami and Marte recently halted extension talks, and Mish now adds that the team balked at guaranteeing the 32-year-old Marte a fourth year on the contract.
Giants center fielders, buoyed by Steven Duggar’s recent hot streak, are hitting .262/.337/.420 on the season, but Duggar’s .398 average on balls in play and 31.8 percent strikeout rate point to some likely regression on the horizon. Left field has actually been a bigger issue, as the Giants have put together a collective .219/.295/.394 batting line from that position. Those struggles have come in large part due to Alex Dickerson, who could stand to lose some playing time in the event of an acquisition of Marte or another outfielder.
Marte, a free agent at season’s end, is earning $12.5MM this season and is still owed about $5MM of that sum through season’s end ($4.37MM from the point of the deadline). He’s hitting .288/.389/.447 with a career-best 11.8 percent walk rate, seven homers and 19 stolen bases through 245 plate appearances so far in 2021. He missed about five weeks with a fractured rib earlier in the season but has looked healthy and productive since returning at the end of May.
From a payroll vantage point, the Giants needn’t have any concerns acquiring Marte or nearly any other player. San Francisco has about $151MM on the books for 2021 and only about $158MM worth of luxury-tax obligations, leaving them miles from the $210MM barrier. This is also an ownership group that has, in the past, given the green light to payrolls in excess of $200MM, so there’s ample room to take on salary in any deal.
The Giants have a solid farm system, though when we’re talking about one rental player, a deep stock of minor league prospects isn’t required anyhow. Mish suggests that top outfield prospect Heliot Ramos, in particular, is of interest to the Marlins — but that’d be a rather steep price to pay for a Marte rental. The Marlins have some relievers who could pique the Giants’ interest, though; Giants president of baseball ops Farhan Zaidi is no doubt quite familiar with former Dodgers Yimi Garcia and Dylan Floro from his days in the Los Angeles front office, for instance.
Miami is also deep in young starting pitching. For a Giants club that could see nearly all of its rotation reach free agency this winter — Kevin Gausman, Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, Johnny Cueto and Aaron Sanchez are all free agents — the Marlins and their impressive crop of young starting pitching seem like a strong trade partner.
Because of the lack of center fielders on the market, the Giants will have plenty of competition for Marte. He’s already been connected to the Yankees, the Phillies and the Astros, and there are several other contenders who could look for help in center field — or just the outfield in general. Marte is certainly a capable defender in center, but he’d fit nicely in a corner for a team looking to more generally upgrade its lineup. The Padres are reportedly looking into some upgrades in right field. The Mets have been linked to center field help throughout the season, and the White Sox have been hit hard with outfield injuries, too. The Giants are as strong a fit as anyone, but the competition will be significant.
Duggar’s regression is in full force. He’s hitting .146/.222/.146 (6 for 41, 13 SO) in the month of July.
I don’t expect he’ll stick around much longer. The Giants got everything out of him they could; which is a lot more than anybody expected.
Dickerson is another guy with an option and been mostly terrible this season.
Either one of those of those guys (and Tauchman) are easy upgrade targets.
Garbage take considering Alex Dickerson is on the team and Duggar was excellent in May/June and still provides excellent defense. If the Giants were basing their player evaluations off of one month Austin Slater, Mike Yastrzemski, and Dickerson would all be off the team.
Okay, what’s more indicative of Duggar’s career; the two good months or the parts of 4 middling seasons?
The only pitch he’s been able to hit this season is a fastball and teams won’t throw him one anymore. He’s been exposed and hasn’t made an adjustment.
Dickerson has provided exactly replacement level production with a below average OPS and below average defense. He does not help the Giants win games and is easily replaceable.
Marte is an upgrade to every one of their outfielders sans Yastrzemski.
But my opinion is “garbage”, as you say, and that must make you the expert.
Yes, it’s serious garbage and don’t try and act like you didn’t edit your comment to add the parts about Dickerson and Tauchman. When you single out Steven Duggar, who’s been better than every outfielder on the team minus Yaz for a 40 at bat stretch when his other 130 at bats suggest he’s made adjustments to hit at the major league level, I’m going to call it out. Duggar is nowhere near getting cut on this team right now when Slater, Dickerson, Tauchman are all on the active roster.
I did edit in the Dickerson and Tauchman parts, though it has nothing to do with you or with your posts as I did it before I read your response.
However, your clear and obvious anger and offense is quite striking.
Bro, don’t you realize this is the MLBTR comment section? It’s super serious, bro! Correcting someone here is the equivalent of slapping their grandma and spitting in their dog’s face.
Honestly recent results will be a better take looking forward including the crap last month or so. When it comes to this team, especially offensively coaching really does matter since over the last couple of years the giants took a huge step fwd in development and analytics and you kind of need to throw out anything before that point.
Sadler:
Yes, Duggar’s production has tailed off, and it’s obvious he’s struggling a bit. But to say his bad month is who he is, is not right.
Duggar had been good because he worked to be able to hit FBs thrown in on his hands, the area he had been most susceptible to up to this season. He made the adjustment, and was hitting well. Pitchers are now working him differently, and he needs to adjust to that.
Whether he will or not is not known. But I don’t think you can know that he won’t adjust, that he will never be able to hit off-speed pitches. The Giants have good hitting coaches and it’s not beyond reason to expect them to help Duggar adjust.
Just because he hasn’t made the adjustment to off-speed pitches yet, doesn’t mean he never will.
Dickerson, Duggar….These guys are 4A guys. They don’t start on a contender . Same for Yaz. Despite Giants fans annoying sentimentalism w/ Yastrzemski, He’s another Guy that doesn’t start in San Diego or LA .
These never ending comments by Giants fans debating the value of these players is tiresome. Outside of SF nobody cares about these scrubs
Ok third place
I can’t even name any starting OF from the third place team in the NL west. Who is that team again. Remind me because no one cares about 3rd place.
Pretty sure Dickerson and Dugger are both starting outfielders on the best team in MLB. If the best record in baseball doesn’t make you a contender, I don’t know what does. Outside of your moms house, nobody cares about your opinion little tony. Stop crying and put on your big boy pants.
Interesting that a team of scrubs is leading in a division with the 2 best teams in the league. Face it, Dodgers and Padres are Yankee’s lite
@SD19
You are obviously wrong as SF is not only contending, they be the leader of the pack.
Frisco’s measly 2 game lead over LA or 5.5 over us doesn’t mean squat in July
LA will be in first place in a few days
And we’re right there.
The MLB season is too long for the Giants old guys/ 4A squad
At the end of September, Giants fans who chirp about ‘ first place ‘ will look like fools
The Padres. lol
Been hearing your same tired rant since April. Hasn’t happened yet…Giants still the best team in baseball.
Andy wtf been a giant fan since mays mccovey marichal and others. When did you jump on the bandwagon?
My comment was towards @tonygwynn
Not a fan of the Giants in any way.. but saying they aren’t contenders… when they are in 1st place..
Dude,
The Padres are always going to play second fiddle to the Giants & Dodgers. Get over it.
LA will be in first place? San Francisco IS in first place. Kind of a bird in the hand type of thing.
Remember 2010 game 162
Uh… Yaz finished 8th in MVP voting…
You can’t base your argument for one guy using his past as an indicator for future production and not use another’s. You’re literally picking and choosing information to fit your argument.
The reason people like Yaz is bc he was the Giant’s first 20+ homer guy in 5+ seasons, and has hit .272/.334/.518 with a 122 OPS+,.297/.400/.568 161 OPS+, and this year he’s .236/.333/.486 with a 121 OPS+. Even Duggar has an OPS+ of 120.
(OPS+ of 100 is park-adjusted league average.)
Playing the best? yes
Best team? far from true
You will see in September and October that I was right all along….
You mean about the time they start getting all of their “old” guys back?
Dickerson has long struggled on the grass. His defense fails the eyeball test and advanced metrics as well. To be a valuable player, he has to crush with the bat. He has not done so this year.
I mean the Marlins can be interested in Heliot Ramos as much as they want but I really don’t see the Giants trading him unless Alcantara or Lopez are involved somehow. 1 year of 32 year old Marte and Yimi Garcia doesn’t seem worth it.
Or Rogers
I’m sure Marlins would be willing to send Alcantara to the Giants along with Marte for Heliot, as long as Luciano, come along with Ramos.
lol keep dreaming.
Miami would have to include Trevor Rogers with Marte for a package centered around Ramos
but for a team that has struggled with outfield production, i really don’t see FZ trading Ramos. Maybe one of the young outfielders in San Jose who is still a few years away. But Ramos could be up in the big leagues next year. I’m putting low stock in his and many other minor league poor performances given the loss of development last year. Ramos still very much can be a solid every day outfielder. Star? Probably not. But a solid .270/ 20-25 HR guy once he’s developed.
Ramos has been moved to AAA
Expect him to be called up sept 1
Lol
Rogers alone is worth Luciano, Heliot, plus more
No, Darkside. Marlins need to send Pablo, Rogers, and Alcantara just for the Marlins even asking for Ramos and for them for taking Marte off the Marlins hands.
And on top of that, include a PTBNL which will be either Sixto or Bleday, whichever the Giants choose.
It’s only fair.
If you expect Heliot Ramos for half a year of Marte you’re going to be in for a real surprise. Teams have gotten less for half seasons of star players like Machado and Verlander. Marte can net you a solid prospect but not a top 3 prospect in a top 10 farm system…
Baseball 1600, I’m not comparing Machado here but since you brought it up, Baltimore received 1 top 100 prospect and 2 other top 30 prospects from the Dodgers.
Verlander netted the Tigers a top 50 prospects and 3 top 10 prospects in the Astros system.
Neither are good examples let alone comparisons.
I have no idea what to expect from the Marlins. They talk a big game and do the opposite. Ramos would be great but you’re delusional if you think one of our top 3 pitchers is coming along with Marte
Baseball 1600, I’m not comparing Machado here but since you brought it up, Baltimore received 1 top 100 prospect and 2 other top 30 prospects from the Dodgers.
Verlander netted the Tigers a top 50 prospects and 3 top 10 prospects in the Astros system.
Neither are good examples let alone comparisons.
I have no idea what to expect from the Marlins. They talk a big game and do the opposite. Ramos would be great but you’re delusional if you think one of our top 3 pitchers is coming along with Marte
Mjm117:
You’re not comparing, so what’s your point? Plus top 100, or top 50 mean nothing. Teams don’t look at that. A better yardstick is Fangraph’s prospect scoring.
So you say Machado was traded for a top 100 and 2 other top 30’s. But the FVs of those guys were a 45, three 40s, and one guy that was waived.
Verlander was traded for two FV 40s and an FV 35+.
Ramos has an FV of 50. On top of that Machado had a much higher value than Marte does now. And Verlander wasn’t a rental. He had two more years on his contract when traded.
Maybe not a top 3 SP, but if the Marlins want Ramos, it will cost them.
Mjm117: Go back and look at those returns.
Let’s check in on the Machado deal first. How are those players doing, 3 years later?
Diaz- Diaz was the “Top 100” prospect in that deal. He’s also been disappointing. So much so that Fangraphs downgraded him to a 40-FV prospect. He was considered high variance at the time of the trade, for what it’s worth.
Dean Kremer- Likely a “AAAA” pitcher. He’s been pretty underwhelming.
Zach Pop- Orioles didn’t bother protecting him the Rule 5 Draft.
Breyvic Valera- The Orioles didn’t even keep him after the 2018 season.
Rylon Bannon- Hit 11 wRC+ in high-A ball, and 51 wRC+ in AAA.
The Dodgers gave a bunch of high-variance, or slightly intriguing organizational guys for Machado. It wasn’t this “wow, look at all the prospects!” trade you’re making it out to be.
Now, the Verlander deal was different because the Astros knew he was signed through the end of 2019 (they extended the deal to be longer). That was 2.5 years of Justin Verlander, who was coming off of very, very good seasons (and continued to be excellent for the Astros).
Marte is neither Verlander, nor Machado. He’s not under contract for 2.5 more years, and he’s not as good (or young) as Machado.
So expecting Marte to get even a package of high-variance, but top level prospects for him is beyond silly.
Also, those deals took place in 2017 & 2018, respectively, by teams who were at the top of their game, acquiring elite players to help them chase a World Series.
I don’t see Starling Marte being the guy that ignites a contender.
You’re way, way off on that assessment Darkside. Rogers has an FV of 50. So does Ramos. Luciano has an FV of 60. There is no way that Rogers brings back those two plus more. I’m not sure if a straight up trade, Ramos for Rogers, makes sense, but at least that’s within reason.
Tad2b13: Trust me, no one in the Marlins front office, or even the Giants, for that matter, is looking at Trevor Rogers and going, “meh, he’s just a 50-grade prospect!”. It shows that we use FV far too flippantly. Rogers is MLB-ready, and he’s dominant. That’s what teams will see.
Ramos is a AAA OF who hasn’t done a thing in the majors. No disrespect to him, but if you’re comparing the two simply from the standpoint of “future value”, then you’re being a bit ridiculous.
JJJ-HS:
If you’re going to chide someone, maybe get a better handle on what they’re actually saying. Did you read @Darkside’s post that I was responding to?
You’re talking about Ramos for Rogers, and my post was not about that. It was about Ramos and Luciano, plus a prospect, for Rogers not being enough.
I’m not sure where you get the idea that I was suggesting teams were saying “meh, (Rogers is) just a 50-grade prospect!” I don’t see anything, anywhere in my post, suggesting anything close to that.
I did say that, I wasn’t sure that Ramos for Rogers straight up made sense. Which, it doesn’t if one looks deeper, which I would have, had my post been about that, The part about being within reason was Ramos, plus more, for Rogers.
My point was that Luciano, who has a FV 60, plus Ramos, FV 50, is supposedly still not enough to acquire Rogers in the opinion of @Darkside. That would, not only be enough, it would be stupid for the Giants to do that IMO, let alone throw in another prospect on top, as he suggested. Rogers is a very valuable asset, but not that valuable.
The part about Ramos for Rogers was just an afterthought, that I probably should have omitted. But I was clearly not suggesting that a straight up, Ramos for Rogers trade, would be fair.
” Rogers has an FV of 50. So does Ramos. Luciano has an FV of 60. There is no way that Rogers brings back those two plus more.”
My point is that you’re taking 2 prospects and you’re looking at their very arbitrary Future Value and saying, Luciano is a 60, Rogers is a 50, therefore, no trade!
It doesn’t work that way. The Marlins, nor the Giants for that matter, are going to simply see Trevor Rogers as some 50 FV prospect. They seem him as a 23-year-old pitcher with over 5 years of team control remaining who very well may be a front-of-the-rotation arm.
They both see Luciano and Ramos, I’d imagine, as very good young players with a lot of talent and both who could be plugged into MLB rosters soon.
Future Value is incredibly subjective. And I promise you, the folks in Miami don’t give two pieces of natural fertilizer about what Eric Longenhagen rated Rogers back in April.
They’ll demand, and rightly so, a package surrounding Luciano & Ramos/Bart and probably a handful of other pieces.
Your assessment of the FV rankings is also subjective. It’s still a much better yardstick than top 50, 100, or whatever. And while the FV is simply projecting, I don’t agree with your dismissal of those projections as having little value. By your estimate, you make them sound like a shot in the dark. They might be subjective, but they are the subjective opinions of people that know way more than I do.
And it still comes down to who would make any trade, and who would say no. Now, I’m not the one who brought up the Marlins trading Rogers, and I don’t see any reason why they would, or should, trade him. I wouldn’t if I were them.
But when someone else brought up that scenario, in regard to the Giants, it came down to what the Marlins could get, in a theoretical sense. And my point was, if they should they ask the Giants for Luciano, Ramos, and another prospect, the Giants would quickly say no. That was the point of my post.
Also, why pick on me? What I posted was reasonable. There are other posts saying the Marlins would have to include Rogers with Marte to get Ramos alone.
Another post said Rogers, Alcantara, and Lopez for Ramos.
Yet, you have to disagree with me when I say that Ramos, Luciano, plus another prospect would be too much for Rogers, as valuable as he is..
As long as whoever they aquire means Tauchman gets designated for assignment, I’m good with it.
Poor Tauchman. Apart from a few highlight reel plays, he sure has sucked this year.
Giants should grab Billy McKinney who was just DFA’d by the Mets
McKinney? Tauchman 2..0 without the glove. No thanks
He’s a dodger
And he’s the polar opposite of Tauchman Full, he has power no glove. Tauch is glove no bat..
Nimmo’s back no need to get another OFer as long as he’s healthy.
Wow the Marlins are really working their media sources to create a seller’s market for Marte.
Or maybe…and this is a “outta left-field” type of theory, just maybe Marte is that good and many teams, including the Giants, are interested in acquiring his services.
Again, just a crazy thought that occurred to me.
Mum, I’m 100% sure the Giants have kicked the tires on him, but he isn’t worth any of the Giants top 10 prospects let alone their #3. He is, as has been stated, a rental, and he isn’t a star rental, he isn’t a difference maker, he is a solid player and any team that gives up prospects like he is a star player will likely regret that. I don’t forsee any team giving up a top 10 prospect from their team for just Marte.
Marte isn’t just solid. He is on pace to put up star numbers this year, when he has been on the field, besides those few weeks he unfortunately missed when he was on fire, for the rib injury…and he doesnt cost much, in terms of money remaining on his deal, or even to potentially sign him
There’s no chance in hell Giants trade Ramos for ANY rental, let alone Marte, who honestly, wouldn’t be a difference-maker in any meaningful way.
Heliot Ramos headlines the Giants’ farm system, OK? Farhan Zaidi has patiently built the Giants’ farm system up without trading away any meaningful prospects, and the author of this article wants us to entertain the idea of them trading away their #1 for Starling Freaking Marte?
The Giants would pay the rest of his salary and maybe toss in a meaningless prospect, and that’s about it. I would assume they are only interested if Miami realizes Marte is walking at season’s end and just decide to take cash to unload his salary.
Marlins don’t need cash. They need someone to replace Marte in CF and/or big league ready hitting prospects.
Marte would immediately be the Giants best overall OF’er.
That’s pretty meaningful.
I mean.. no I don’t think so. Yaz has been better since the beginning of 2019 (although not significantly) and his skill set is a little more power centric than Marte’s which is built a bit more on speed and hit tool. If I had to pick one of them on the team I would take Yaz both for this year and the next 3. However I will give you that Marte would be a big addition to the team. It’s not going to be a swap for Ramos though. If Ramos leads the package then I see it being a larger overall deal where the giants give another couple of decent prospects for a controllable pitcher as well. I guess we will see!
@Mjm117 Marte is not better than Yaz, but he would still be a big upgrade over the rest.
Yeah! I totally agree. SF should get a quality ML player for some guy below the top 30 prospects. Why stop there? See if LA will ship Shohei to SF for “cash considerations”
Giants have plenty of quality ML players holding down the fort already and will likely cruise into the playoffs as is. Marte’s okay, but hardly a necessity.
If you’ve watched SF’s maneuvers since Zaidi took over, you know he has no intention of trading the farm for rentals, particularly a middle-of-the-road MLB’er like Marte. What’s left of Marte’s season after the deadline is worth the rest of his salary and a couple of prospects no one has ever heard of.
@Scottn First of all, Ramos is certainly not the “top” prospect in the Giants’ system. However, you’re right that there is no way Farhan trades Ramos for a rental outfielder.
Duggar’s regression is already in full “swing” – pump out the cash and a mid-level prospect and go get him!
I don’t know if Marte is the “guy”, But as someone who watches the Giants EVERY day, we need to do better than both Duggar and Dickerson – at least how they both have been the last 30 games – if they are either going to make the playoffs or go very far in the playoffs
Not a garbage take – quite realistic actually. Get your nose out of the stats and watch the games
Patrick Bailey and Casey Schmitt for Marte and any RP on the big league ball club should get it done.
Coincidentally, Ramos was promoted to AAA today.
Missed him in Bowie when the Flying squirrels were in town. Every game was basically a heat emergency though.
Just pay cash for the Marte rental and DFA tauchman. Am I missing something?
You think Marte is only worth cash for one
I’m comfortable with any decisions the Giants make. They are in a unique situation. While waiting for the prospects to mature, they find themselves leading the NL West. We must realize that prospects don’t always succeed. Look at the can’t miss guys who are struggling this year. Is Ramos a sure thing? If he is traded, i would assume Farhan and Scott are not convinced. It will be an interesting 11 days.
I think the next three games with the Dodgers are very important. If they were to lose all three, I would guess changes will be made sooner than later. Having Marte against the Dodgers next week would be a nice addition. Any deal with the Marlins will probably include a pitcher.
We be lucky to see any big moves from giants! Not so good at trading for rentals… plus team chemistry right now.. I bet we would if won in 16 if we didn’t trade Duffy for Longoria. Team moral went south from there but here we are again!! Let Go Giants!
SteveGoGiants21!
And, you’re not so good at history. Duffy was traded for Matt Moore, not Longoria. And Longoria was an off-season acquisition, not a deadline deal.
Only way Ramos is involved is if it’s for Marte, Alcantara, and Rogers. We throw in santos and Hjelle. Otherwise no deal. Giants lost the rental trade of Beltran for Wheeler. No way they do that again l.
Damn and I thought Yankee and Mets fans were delusional.
Wow…just wow!
It appears to me that @Paul_25 is the @MetsFan22 of the NL West.
Bro would you trade JJ bleday for a rental??? Why yes or why no? To me Ramos is part of the Giants future and would only part with him for controllable MLB talent. I am not saying I want all those guys I know it’s not going to happen and I am happy with Ramos. To me giving up Ramos for Marte is a Marlins fan pipe dream. If you guys want Ramos so much that’s what a package would have to be to entice the Giants to consider.
Ramos does not have the trade value of either Rogers or Alcantara as individuals, so your post still brings out the “wow!” reaction.
@Mjm117 not all of us are! That’s one of the more comical proposals I’ve seen in some time though lol.
Bro would you trade JJ bleday for a rental??? Why yes or why no? To me Ramos is part of the Giants future and would only part with him for controllable MLB talent. I am not saying I want all those guys I know it’s not going to happen and I am happy with Ramos. To me giving up Ramos for Marte is a Marlins fan pipe dream. If you guys want Ramos so much that’s what a package would have to be to entice the Giants to consider.
32 years old. Might be too young for the giants liking.
It’s too bad that their oldest outfielder is 31 years old…
The collapse is starting soon for the Giants as I have said all along….
Marte would be a huge upgrade over every CF the Giants have ran out there this season….
Ramos won’t be moved for Marte but he won’t be free for the Giants….
The Giants are not getting any of the Marlins young arms either lol
Marlins will be better than the Giants within 2 years why give up young arms to get 4th OFs in return lol
The fast start by the Giants provided false confidence but they will collapse soon or early in the playoffs if make it….
The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Bitterness is a hell of a drug.
So weird…no regression in sight! Thanks for reminding us all you’ve been saying foolishness “all along.”
You the foolish on…baseball is a long season of peaks and valleys being dissected by many who’ve never played. Brah come down Waianae so we can talk.
Fast start, fool, it’s July not May! LOL
There are better teams than the Giants that won’t make the playoffs which is sad but it happens….
If they just win, then they don’t have this problem.
You are what your record is.
A team of underrated individuals beating out better rated teams to the playoffs is not sad. It’s awesome. In any team sport.
Better how?
SF is near the top of the league in all major team offensive, defensive and pitching stats as well as leading the league in win percentage…unless something has changed, I don’t think dopey opinions effect the standings.
So going by the science of statistics and the existence of objective reality, all the evidence shows the Giants to currently be the best team in the NL, if not the MLB.
The 7 games with the Dodgers before the trade deadline is critical to the Giants 2nd half.
And to the Dodgers
The Giants are NOT gonna go away in the 2nd half.
It’s amazing and boring how people are still not accepting the Giants are a good team. Best in baseball talent wise, definitely not… one of the top 5 TEAMS, definitely yes.
Sorry but talent wise the Giants aren’t even too 5 in the NL let alone all of baseball….the hit start they got off to gave them momentum and false confidence (Steelers last year in the NFL) but everyone true fan or expert knows they won’t go far in the playoffs if they make it….
They’ve played with practically the same winning percentage in every month. No hot start – they’ve been remarkable consistent. Just because you don’t know some of their players does not change the fact that the Giants are, by all measurable accounts, one of the best teams in all of baseball.
i wanted the giants to get a closer before the start of this series to try and steal this series. why wait till you have the possibility of looking desperate if this week doesnt go well? a closer is first priority. if were gonna trade talent for an outfielder, why would you look anywhere other than bryant who you can sign to a big deal? go get a deal done for taylor rogers, go get bryant, look into acquiring a starter and go win.
I’m not convinced the Twins are interested in trading Taylor Rogers. He’s under team control for 2022, and it’s not like the Twins have this horrendous roster. They, for whatever reason, are not playing well in 2021.
I see no reason for them to move Rogers, and I’d imagine the price tag is going to be very disappointing to whatever team acquires him (if he’s traded). It’s not going to be Gleyber Torres-for-Chapman bad, but it’ll be a household prospect name, most likely.
As a fantasy commissioner for roughly 35 years now it’s my job to know every player in the league and all 30 team’s top prospects….I go beyond that and can name every MLB teams AA and AAA teams as well….so don’t go there with me saying that I don’t know some of their players….I know every player in the league and then some….
It’s not that I don’t know them….it’s simply that some of them suck or are replacement level players….
They are playing so above their expected level it’s not even funny….that combined with superior teams underperforming and with all the anomalies this season like last anything can happen….and yes a fast start put them in the drivers seat….they gained confidence and a huge morale boost on top of the momentum gained from a fast start so it absolutely has helped….
Great player.
What….trade Ramos!
Why…Brian Reynolds 2.0
The sting of the Reynolds trade is going to be around for awhile. I cope by thinking about Jason Schmidt.
I liked Reynolds from the time they drafted him, he had all the makings of a MLer. I wrote to Pirates fans on the day of the trade that they got a steal and they were going to have a solid MLer from that trade.
Definitely one of the worst trades for the Gaints in the last 20 years (along with Beltran, and Pierzynski)
I GUARANTEE Zaidi isn’t going to let Ramos go for a rental, unless that rental is packaged with several above average MLB players or several high to mid Marlins prospects.
Farhan is HELL to deal with, look how he’s screwed the Twins in the last couple years.
I agree, no way is Ramos being sent for Marte. Not happening.
And what about Kris Bryant for the Giants?!
Where are the rumors about Kris Bryant to the Giants? Younger, versatile, playoff experience? Is is because of having to deal with Boras?
The Giants are heading in the right direction. Ownership is giving the front office the green light, farm system is now very promising, plenty of money falling off of the books, etc.
Farhan Zaidi is baseball executive of the year. It’s amazing what he’s done.
And Kap is got to be manager of the year
“Has”, not “is”
Dang it
If the Giants trade Heliot Ramos, it would be a BIG mistake. I think Zaidi knows more than that . Look what happened with Bryan Reynolds in the McCutchen trade. Zaidi wouldn’t have made that trade, I’m sure, but he still wasn’t with SF. That was the excellent center fielder and good hitter we lost. He does everything.
Marlins are trading Marte to the highest bidder, so can all of the delusional fans that overvalue their prospects or young players please stop with the dipshipped trade suggestions and assessments. The Marlins traded Zac Gallen for Jazz Chisholm. It’s ridiculous to state that they’ll need to trade Rogers and/or Alcantara for a player that is rated lesser than Chisholm was when the Marlins got him for Gallen.
The Marlins need a young CF to replace Marte, so it’s very likely that the Marlins are getting a young MLB CF that isn’t ready to help a contender or an MLB-ready CF with some talent.
As far as the Giants, there could be a serious possibility that the Marlins and Giants agree to a multi-player deal on both ends involving the names in the article – Marte, Yimi Garcia, etc. If that happens, I’d hope they’d get the Giants to take Bass as well.
You seem to forget that Marte is only a rental for whomever trades for him. Yes, if traded, it will be to the highest bidder. But no team is going to give up an MLB-ready CF for 2 1/2 months of Starling Marte, unless that guy is not regarded very highly. Teams aren’t going to give away a lot just to out-bid other teams.
Who are some of these “MLB CF that aren’t ready to help a contender” that you speak of?
I’d suggest that if the Giants are trading for an outfield upgrade, their trade partner would need to see potential in either Slater or Duggar. One of those guys and a prospect would be my guess. The level of prospect being dependant on the competition for the player and the strength of the respective negotiators. Personally hoping for a reasonably hardline approach from the Giants side. I don’t think there is reason to overpay. Upsetting the apple cart and trading away some future scares me.
Not sure if you’re referring to Marte, but if Duggar or Slater is traded, for him, the prospect thrown in better be going from the Marlins to the Giants. Marte is a rental. Duggar has 5 more years of team control, and Slater has 4. They are a lot more valuable than a guy with 2 1/2 months of control.
Ok. I’m underselling Slater and Duggar !
I was thinking one of them is dispensable for a better “win now” option. Also thinking Ramos will be in there next year and beyond. Adding to the dispensability of one those 2.
Austin Slater also can play all positions other than catcher and shortstop. If he’s hitting above an ops+ of 90 he’s valuable to all contending teams needing a UIF/UOF.
Have the Giants actually expressed interest in Marte, or the basis of this article merely the comments made in the Miami Herald article expressing that they think there’s a fit there?
Seems like this is all hype out of Miami, who are trying to get something for Marte before he walks at season’s end.
The Giants are going to prioritize another pitcher and perhaps a closer at the deadline. While CF is a position that the Giants could aim to improve, there’s no real urgency there; it’s hardly the priority.
Yeah, you have a point. If this rumor was started by the Miami press, it could be merely the Marlins working through them to try and drum up some competition for him.
Doubt that works though. FOs aren’t going to fall for a ploy like that. They all have their own ratings for Marte, and they aren’t going to overpay simply to outbid other clubs.
All the clubs interested will make a proposal, and the Marlins will decide which among them they like best.
The fast start combined with injuries to other teams stars like Yelich and Soto and Bellinger and Soroka and Trout and Flaherty and Conforto etc has absolutely helped the Giants gain false confidence and momentum….I see this every season….
Who here had the Mariners doing better than the Braves? nobody….likewise who had the Giants playing this well?….nobody….
When I say they “benefited from a fast start” and people say “fast start it’s July” blah blah blah….I laugh because I never said that’s the only reason they are doing good….it absolutely helped them get to where they are but the momentum from their fast start is what they are running on now….
They could literally fall back to earth and still make the playoffs due to the watered down injured league and their HOT START….
I’m not implying that the hot start out the gate is still going on in July….it is however the reason behind their success thus far….
Hot start plus injuries to other teams stars and a watered down league due to injuries and Covid etc has given the Giants a huge boost….
Talent wise they are not even close to top 5 in the NL….let alone the entire MLB….but that’s not how baseball works….it’s all about momentum and confidence whether legit or false….
I see them as an early exit playoff team if they make it….nothing wrong with that statement as I’m sure 85% of true fans have the same opinion….
My point is that they are only in this position due to the fast start in April and May and because they have since been given confidence which led to momentum….
For real baseball purists this happens every season….I shouldn’t have to explain this….
Every year a pitcher like Gausman comes out the gate pitching like Max Scherzer lol….
Don’t @ me as I know what I am talking about and u shall see that I am right in September/October
The giants were also 15-10 in June and 9-6 in July so…what exactly is your point? It’s not a “hot start” if they’re 60% of the way through the season and playing at the same level.
Also, check your notes – giants have been one of the most injured teams in baseball.
Also, if your comment is longer than the original post – consider, you know, stopping.
The Giants injury list does not include players like Bellinger or Yelich or Soto or Conforto or Trout or Soroka or Ketel Marte or Dustin May or Clevinger etc….
That’s my point….losing Longoria who was a candidate to be DFA as recent as last season is no where close to the losses the other teams have suffered….
This season is fluky just like last season where anomalies are more frequent than normal circumstances….
Covid has evened the playing field and the Giants capitalized on it….great job so far but the talent simply isn’t there for a long run in the playoffs this season….take that to the bank….
You look at the Giants and see a lack of star power. But what’s going on behind their success is a really well built roster and a resurgence from the older veterans, several who had been written off, but who have WS experience and the rings to back it up.. The roster has been really carefully constructed, with a lot of depth, so that the constant injuries don’t chew away at a team that can pitch well, spray hits across the diamond, and slug with the best of them.
Could the team flag in the second half? Of course. But if anything, they have shown that they are better prepared to weather roster changes than just about any other team.
If you want to rag on how Covid has changed the circumstances of baseball, you have a better argument if you are talking about last year. But in the here and now? I think you should give credit to the Giants for being better than expected and begin to take them seriously as a contender.
That’s the point. Giants have proven that so many of these mlb teams are poorly constructed. They’ve got one or two video game cover players, and then a bunch of replacement level guys. People keep saying “oh if we weren’t injured things would be different” no duh, every team gets injuries. Giants were just smart enough to plan for them.
According to the Lost War Metric – which calculates the amount of wins lost to the disabled list based on how much WAR that player was anticipated to produce, the Giants are the 3rd most injured team in baseball at -7.65 through June 30th. Only the Mets (-10.86) and the White Sox (-8.64) have been more unlucky with injuries. The Blue Jays are at -6.17 and the Astors are at -6.06 in 4th and 5th place, respectively.
Thanks Andy, and always appreciate your insightful takes on the Giants!
Posey, Belt, Yaz, Have had multiple DL stints. Crawford was just put on the DL.
Longoria and la Stella will have been out more than two-months. Dickerson and Solano had dl time too.
That means The entire IF Plus the primary Backup Has been on the DL plus 2/3ds of the starting OF. Manny of them For more than 20 days.
While I agree that the fill-ins are playing above their heads. The giants with similar production to past years from here on in: I have no doubt that they will get into the playoffs And get past the wild card round (14′. 16′ ) and the bullpen is by far superior to 16′ .
AND it is DL not IL (MLB B!tch@s.)
List of Giants Position players who spent 20 or more day on the IL.
C Posey
1B Belt
2B Solano
3B Longoria
RF Yaz
UIF La Stella
Others who have seen DL time
SS Crawford
LF Dickerson
1B/LF Ruff
If the Giants Just play .5oo ball from today thru the end of the season
They’ll win 98 games on the season.
“ If the Giants Just play .5oo ball from today thru the end of the season
They’ll win 98 games on the season.”
Well, 93..
Yep miscounted.
The only “really good” players missing parts of the season were Yaz and Posey….
Let’s face it….Crawford and Longoria as recent as last season were bad contracts while Longoria wasn’t even tradable due to his low production on a large contract….I even heard DFA a few times with his name involved….
Having a resurrection type season in his mid 30’s I would hardly call that a huge loss….the players that the Braves and Padres have been without are far better and if they were all healthy (all things being equal) the Giants wouldn’t even be in the race….
Braves – Acuna and Soroka and Albies
Padres – Clevinger and Lamet and Tatis
While u all list replacement level players the Giants have been without….wow….
Dodgers lost May and Bellinger
Brewers lost Yelich
Nats lost Soto
Angels lost Trout
Injuries happen and the Giants AAAA players are playing above expectations which has them on top right now but it will not last….
Look for regression and for the Dodgers to win the division….
The Giants will be ousted in the playoffs early even if they win the WC game with Gausman on the bump….
Their pitching staff after Gausman is not good (pitching above career abilities etc) and do not match up well with other good teams pitching….
Take the top 5 players from every team and the Giants are middle of the pack at best….
People scream depth but the Giants bench players wouldn’t even make many other teams rosters….
Yaz the Giants best player would be the 3rd best OF on the Dodgers….
The rotation aside from Gausman is worse than the Marlins and Brewers….and Mets and Dodgers and Padres (when healthy) just to name a few….there are more though….
It is what it is….every season this happens where an average team makes the playoffs while much better teams miss the playoffs….
That said….the Giants will be eliminated early in the playoffs because they simply aren’t good enough to compete this season….
Now screen shot my posts and don’t @ me….just wait and see that I was right all along and then thank me for my advice and baseball knowledge….
Anyone who types one sentence as an entire paragraph and ends said sentences with elipses is nothing more than a lunatic.
The content of your comment verifies this as well.
You are a lunatic for thinking that the Giants have a chance….lol
So there must be a bunch of lunatics over at BB Ref and Fangraphs. BB Ref gives the Giants a 99.4% chance to make the PS. and Fangraphs has it at 97.5%.
As anyone watching baseball for more than a season or two knows, once a team makes the playoffs, anything can happen.
But keep on mistaking your opinion for reality. It’s amusing.
Comprehension is not a prerequisite for recognition.
Playoffs sure maybe but they cannot compete with the elite teams in the playoffs with the roster and rotation as it is now….
That said it will be an early exit as I said in all my posts….
6% of teams go “deep” into the postseason. Saying that a team won’t go deep in the postseason does not make you a prophet.
Marte, 1 or 2 of their bullpen arms between Garcia, Floro, Bleier, and Bass, and potentially either Braxton Garrett or Nick Neidart for Kyle Harrison, Aeverson Arteaga, Ricardo Genoves and Caleb Kilian…maybe replace 1 or 2 of them with Will Wilson in a shorter deal? None of those guys, besides Kilian, is anywhere close to the big leagues
The Giants say no to that deal, mostly because they are adding 4 players to their 40-man roster, but not trading anyone away from it.
So not only do they lose Harrison, Arteaga, Genoves, and Killian, but they also lose 4 other players who get cut from the roster.
Barring other trades, the Giants would lose guys like Sam Selman, Mike Tauchman, Tyler Beede, John Brebbia, Jay Jackson, or others for nothing.
So then, Marte, 1 of those bullpen arms, and maybe 1 of those pitching prospects if necessary…that reasoning doesnt feel that great though. There are 40 man moves they could theoretically make. And it’s not like those guys arent usable themselves
Jackson has struck out 8 of the 14 batters he has faced. He has had excellent command and looks confident out there. While that’s a short body of work, it’s an awesome one.
Unless the Giants sink precipitously between now and the deadline, my guess and hope is that they will stand pat. Marte would not be a cheap rental. No sense trading Luciano for such a short term rental who might also destroy some of the great chemistry on this team. Including Dickerson and/or Duggar would also do this.