A couple weeks ago, the Cubs had positioned themselves as likely buyers during trade season. As recently as June 24, Chicago was tied with the Brewers atop the NL Central, nine games over .500. The past two weeks have been an unmitigated disaster for the North Siders, though.
Between June 25 and July 7, the Cubs lost eleven consecutive games. They snapped that streak with a win over the Phillies last night, but Chicago enters tonight’s matchup against Philadelphia with an uninspiring 43-44 record. The Brewers, meanwhile, have rattled off a 10-3 stretch over that time, opening up an 8.5 game lead on Chicago within a 14-day span. (The 45-41 Reds have also since passed the Cubs to jump into second place in the division). Chicago isn’t a whole lot closer in the Wild Card race, trailing the Padres by seven games (with Cincinnati and the Nationals also above them in the standings).
An eleven game losing streak can certainly tank a team’s season, and it seems it might’ve in the Cubs’ case. On June 24, FanGraphs gave Chicago a 35.7% chance of making the playoffs; entering play today, their odds were down to 6.4%.
With a playoff berth all of a sudden seeming highly unlikely, the calculus for the Cubs front office changes considerably, a fact that president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer acknowledged this evening. Speaking with reporters (including Jordan Bastian of MLB.com, Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune and Gordon Wittenmyer of NBC Sports Chicago), Hoyer sounded far more willing to move players off the big league roster than he’d been a couple weeks ago.
“Eleven days ago, we were certainly fully on the buying side … and obviously (teams) are now calling to see which players are available,” Hoyer said. “So it’s a very different scenario than we’d expected. Life comes at you fast.” Asked whether the front office is willing to make players available, Hoyer noted their responsibility to consider anything “that can help build the next great Cubs team,” citing their aforementioned dwindling playoff odds.
The implications for the Cubs are obvious. Three of their highest-profile players — Kris Bryant, Javier Báez and Anthony Rizzo — are all slated to hit free agency at the end of the season. If the team isn’t contending in 2021, it stands to reason any or all of them could find themselves on the move over the next few weeks.
Certainly, there’d be plenty of interest in every member of that group. Bryant has bounced back from a disappointing 2020 to hit a very strong .269/.349/.498 with sixteen home runs over 324 plate appearances this year. He’s making far more consistent hard contact and barreling balls up at a rate he hasn’t since his MVP peak. Bryant’s production has tailed off after he got out to a scorching start to the year, but his combination of excellent season-long numbers and overall track record would make him perhaps the top player on the trade market were the Cubs to make him available.
Rizzo’s .250/.343/.439 line is down rather significantly from his best seasons. It’s still above-average offensive production, though, and he continues to offer a rare combination of bat-to-ball skills and hard contact (to say nothing of quality defensive marks at first base). Báez has struck out at an alarming 36.6% clip this year en route to a .234 batting average and a .282 on-base percentage. But he’s also popped 21 home runs and slugged .496, and he’s a comfortably above-average defender and baserunner.
Between their career accolades, key roles on the 2016 World Series team, and impending free agencies, that trio figures to draw the most fanfare in advance of the July 30 trade deadline. They’re far from the only players on whose availability other teams might inquire, though. Zach Davies, Joc Pederson and Jake Marisnick are useful players set to reach free agency this winter. (Marisnick has a mutual option for 2022, but mutual options are rarely exercised by both parties).
Willson Contreras, controllable via arbitration through 2022, is one of the game’s best catchers and was the subject of trade discussion last offseason. Closer Craig Kimbrel is having an incredible bounceback campaign, pitching to a 0.57 ERA with a 46.2% strikeout rate and 8.5% walk percentage after struggling mightily between 2019-20. Kimbrel’s $16MM salary for 2021 now looks more than reasonable, as does the matching option on his contract for 2022.
Certainly, it’d be a surprise to see all of those players change teams in the next few weeks. Hoyer pushed back against the idea the Cubs were planning to kick off any sort of full-on rebuild, even as he acknowledged that the 2022 roster will look different from the current iteration. He also noted there’s still some possibility — slim as it now seems — the team plays its way back into contention over the coming weeks.
The Cubs have eighteen more games before the deadline. After facing the Phils tonight, their slate through July 29 consists of seven games against the Cardinals, six against the lowly Diamondbacks, and four against the Reds, one of the teams they’ll need to leapfrog for a postseason spot.
Winning thirteen or fourteen of those contests might get the Cubs sufficiently close to the postseason picture that the front office decides not to orchestrate a sell-off. The core of the current club has been pivotal to arguably the franchise’s most successful five-year run in over a century. It certainly wouldn’t be a surprise to see Hoyer and his front office give the group as long a leash as possible this summer to try to play their way back into the mix.
Nevertheless, the most likely scenario is that the club’s dreadful past two weeks dug them a hole too deep to come back from. That’s an inescapable reality Hoyer acknowledged this afternoon, one that may result in a few of the franchise’s most important players of recent memory donning new uniforms in a few weeks’ time.
Kris Bryant and Craig Kimbrell for Marco Luciano and a guy who may or may not ever make the majors like will Wilson seems like. Good deal
Kyle Hendricks for Josiah gray seems like a good deal
Javier baez to the Yankees for gleber back and Luis gil seems like a good deal
Keep rizzo I guess
It’ll be a reload rather than a rebuild. But I digress. Cue the select few crosstown trolls and dumpster divin whoever to trash this comment section.
2016—-just hit the mute button…..it really makes the comment section an easy read. Keep all those with intelligent opinions whether you agree or not and forever say so long to any obvious troll.
App on IOS doesn’t have the mute button yet, otherwise it would’ve been done the minute it came out.
Try Safari on IOS.
I see a mute button.
You are gone now!
So are you, little brother!
I would trade anyone I could. I wouldn’t sign anyone back this winter unless the price was right. Build to a contender again with young cost controlled talent.
The big 3 is the Cubs only talent
Not true.
That’s completely false. They have the best catcher in baseball to start. Nico Hoerner is gonna be a superstar. Hendricks when he’s on is very good. I think it was last year. Hendricks has a CG shutout vs the cards with 81 pitches.
Joc Pederson isn’t a superstar but he’s a decent player.
Adbert Alzolay is very good too. The long ball has hurt him but he’s the future ace. Keegan Thompson is a future mainstay in the rotation as well as Justin Steele.
When did the Cubs sign Realmuto?
Edit: Never mind. Got to the Alzolay is a future Ace part and realized you were delusional. Carry on.
Alzolay is a future back end rotation staple, mid-rotation if we’re lucky, but certainly not the A word.
The Cubs are running a clinic on how to let it fall into an abyss. I hate that someone will turn this next comment into a “Sox-Cubs thing” but Rick Hahn for example, would have turned this roster into a restocked and LOADED minor league system by now.
Hasnt Hahn been GM for 10 years now? And he still hasnt won anything.
Reading is a skill Android. I didn’t say anything about championships. I spoke of restocking the system. I wish more would read……before commenting. Hahn had a top 5 system a year ago. That was the point.
But Whiff, in the same vain….Bryant, Contreras, Rizzo, Hendricks, Baez et al were that LOADED minor league system that won a championship and have been a contender for the past six plus seasons. It’s easy for a Cub fan to say these two teams were even eight years ago and they loaded the minors and became good while the Sox scuffled for six more seasons. Perhaps (probably easy to say now) the Cubs could have gotten “more” if they moved these guys sooner but we don’t know that now.
Let’s be honest——-going back 100 years these teams have combined for two…..two championships.
Point of the night
No Mike. Tanking and drafting high is one way to build the farm and yes, the Cubs did that well. My point, knowing when to break up the major league club and trade the established players to rebuild the farm, is something the Cubs are failing, and failing miserable to do.
Tanking did NOT help the Cubs—and as a matter of fact while the Cubs were “tanking” the White Sox were selecting ahead of the Cubs in at least half of those years.
Kris Bryant is the only player picked high that really panned out as they thought he would—-Almora–not good, Bryant–MVP caliber, Schwarber–streaky and only now having “that” run…Happ…nope. They did NOT draft well towards the top of round one.
And while they were “tanking” it is a fact that after year one the Cubs record got BETTER everyone season from 2012 leading up to the World Series. If they were tanking the record would have gotten worse. So stop with the tanking stuff—that’s the biggest fallacy of all attached to the Cubs during their build.
@mike127 tanking was glorious for the Cubs.
Mike is correct. Four killer trades – Rizzo, Arrieta, Hendricks, Russell. Excellent free agent pickups – Lester, Zobrist, Fowler.
You are correct in noting the Sox scuffled far too long. They should have begun their rebuild 2-3 years sooner than they did. While I do not necessarily blame Hahn for the Tatis trade, as nobody knew Tatis was going to amount to anything, but it was an error in judgement in trying to buy at the deadline in 2016 that cost the Sox Tatis.
Had they been sellers, it would have never happened. As the saying goes, “know when to hold em, know when to fold em”.
Re “Tanking”…don’t you have to be a decent to good team before you can be accused of tanking? Cubs weren’t good for many years before Theo or for 2.5 years after he arrived.
Was there a reason to be sellers when you’re 2 games out of 1st place in the first week of June?
They traded for fowler when they first got him. From the Astros for Luis Valbuena(RIP) and I think one other player. They did seek up behind Baltimore in 2016 and sign him as a Free agent.
If you were doing it Hahns way, you would have signed Rizzo, Bryant, Baez and Hendricks to affordable long term contracts and then traded them away, resulting in a missed opportunity for a World Series win, and just now be coming out of your rebuild.
I believe our White Sox are going on 10 years without winning 80 games. And still counting.
But they had some really good prospects. And they signed a hall of fame drunk… I mean manager.
That hall of fame “drunk” has CW in 1st by 7.5 games.
WS are in first place despite the manager. They’d be further ahead if they didn’t have him.
No, Hahn has not. Maybe 3-5.
Kenny W. preceded him.
Kimbrel told the Cubs he’s picking between Oakland and Houston this week. No idea what the return would be from either. If he picks the A’s we all know why he went with them over the Astros.
Rizzo,Baez,Kimbrell for Voit and Garcia
The Cubs would laugh and hang up
The Yankees would need to trade Clarke Schmidt, Austin Wells and Esevan Florial to get Craig Kimbrel and Javier Baez. And the Yankees probably would not want Rizzo.
Rizzo wouks be an upgrade at 1st for them. Baez can play all 4 infield spots and play them like they’re his natural postions. It’s too bad kinbrel doesn’t have at least a limited no trade clause. I’d refuse to go to the Yankees. Just so I won’t be forced to shave my beard. Which honestly they need to drop the rule. George Steinbrenner past away 11 years ago. I think they can move on now.
Wishful drinking
The Cubs lack quality pitching on its MLB roster along with a weak farm system to even consider buying at the deadline. Theo “The Baseball Genius” Epstein did not tool the Cubs’ farm system during his tenure and traded away their best assets. Thats one of the biggest reasons why he left during this past offseason while fans won’t shift the blame on him and they focus on the Ricketts. It’s going to be a long three to four years for the Cubs organization if they don’t make the correct moves in the next few weeks.
Actually, Fangraphs would contradict about the minor league system being weak. It has very good depth which is good for trading if you’re buying which barring a large wiñning streak, they won’t. The top prospect, Brennen Davis, is not top tier yet, though.
Davis will be a mainstay on the cubs sooner rather than later. Especially if they trade Joc.
When Theo was in charge of the Cubs he focused on tooling the MLB roster with putting all of the money into it rather than putting some resources into the minor league system. The pitchers Theo drafted did not pan out too well in the minor league system. Theo trading away both Cease and Jimenez for Quintana was a terrible move by him but a steal for the White Sox, which us White Sox’s fans did not understand how Quintana was even worth the Cubs’ top two prospects who were ranked in the top 100.
Trade Fiasco, the Cubs’ top ten prospects are in AA ball and lower. Those players are two to three years away that all depends on their development in their respective leagues and to staying healthy. That’s the same with majority of the Cubs’s prospects from 11 to 30. There is not one prospect who is MLB ready in the Cubs’ farm system, which is why I previously mentioned on their development and health.
There are some players in AAA expected to come up this season while some players are players are expected in AA to come next year or the year after that, however, again that all depends on their development and health. Cubs’ fans should want the Cubs’ developing these guys rather than trading them away for one last party with Baez, Bryant, Contreras, Hendricks and Rizzo. These guys should be moved to make that system stronger and the organization to start rebuilding for a 2025/2026 push. If the Cubs do make one last push and trade away some assets they have in their system that window four the future 2025/2026 goes to 2028/2029. The future of the Cubs is this next few weeks with the draft and trade deadline.
BeeVeeTee – excellent comment. Iowa currently, quite nicely holding down the cellar, must have someone. Anyone? Yes, we look to the future for “quality athletes” playing together for 3-4 seasons along with construction of a pitching staff. Those “quality athletes” dont have to be head banging phenoms. Just good teammates .
Cubs system can get just about anybody. Not many players fetch mutiple top 100 prospects. 2 or 3 high upside teenagers can get 90 percent of mlb players.
Cubs over Athletics in 2028…assuming they’re still in Oakland. If not then it will be Cubs over Blue Jays.
So they aren’t going to be good if they move?
Yeah new stadium, new city, influx of cash so they can finally keep their own players. Also a new cable tv deal. I’ve been an A’s fan since childhood and live in the Bay Area, but even if a stadium gets approved in Oakland it would take 5 years or longer which is ridiculous. Though I have no hope in the Oakland politicians and cheap owner coming to any resolution.
they play in California. it’s not a small market, the team is just cheap. heck, they made a movie to justify them being cheap.
Assuming it’s las vegas the A’s move too. They have to build a new stadium. And there’s 100s of land to do that. It won’t happen anytime soon. I’d honestly relocate the Rays. Don’t know why St. Pete doesn’t want to build a new stadium. They deserve it more than the Marlins. That stadium has like 4 sellouts. And it was from the WBC (I still think rhe last one was fixed, team usa had no business winning) should’ve been Puerto Rico.
Plenty of soon to be Ex Pirates to choose from Cubbies.
Please. Take em all.
Even they can’t lose 11 straight. (Or can they?)
Either way? Take em all.
Bucs to Cubs = same letters.
(Please don’t continue to slide Chicago. We do not want the Pirates to somehow magically win 7 in a row somewhere by some fluke and not finish DEAD LAST.)
Leave the Pirates alone in the standings. Remember…the division is UP there.
Not down here in PirateVille
Predictions based on absolutely nothing but conjecture and intuition:
Baez to OAK
Bryant to NYM
Contreras to LAA
Rizzo to BOS
Kimbrel to SF
I like the Cubs, and don’t blame them for trying to make another run. Heck, it almost worked, but this team is just too flawed, streaky hitters, not enough pitching, etc.
If they want to “re-tool” their GM better choose wisely who he trades off, who he resigns, and weigh all his options for the returns he is able to get. Heck, he could even press all the right buttons, and he still might be left with a team that won’t contend for a handful of seasons.
He’s definitely in a really tough spot with their lack of a farm system, and I don’t envy his job whatsoever. He’s pretty much in a lose lose situation..
No GM should ever allow this to happen where the 3 most important players all hit free agency at the same time. Contracts need to be staggered to avoid this. If Hoyer can find a way out of this, without having to rebuild, I’ll be really impressed. Here are the options and none look great if you’re a Cubs fan:
1) Fire sale and rebuild
2) Trade one or two of the FAs and Kimbrel to stock the upper levels of the farm and try to retool in the offseason, but there are already a lot of holes to fill.
3) Keep and resign all FAs and then there’s no money left for pitching.
What’s the point in trading one or two FA’s? Half-assing a rebuild never works.
A full rebuild isn’t needed though. So why completely start from the ground up if you dont need too,
@BillyBaggins Because they are 4 months from losing all those players for basically nothing is the reason why they should do that. What sounds better to you: Trading a guy for prospects or losing him for nothing? Would you rather have prospects or not have prospects, all other things equal?
Actually, the Cubs are most likely going to do a full rebuild while the next three to four years are going to be dark times for the Cubs. The Cubs lack depth in their farm system from MLB ready pitchers to step up in the pitching rotation while not having position players that are ready to replace guys like Bryant, Baez and Rizzo. Bryant may be the one plater the Cubs should actually keep around during the rebuild by resigning him to a contract to retire on the Cubs while he is the one player that may get the Cubs a player or two for the future. Baez should have signed that alleged deal with the Cubs since his stock is deceasing right now while Rizzo is on the wrong side of 30.
All 3 can be traded and simply signed again after the league gets a deal in place. Doesn’t matter at all they all expired at the same time. They could have been extended at any time or signed again as free agents. Or maybe just maybe they want to move on from these old expensive declining players.
The contracts were structured this way by Theo to give them maximum flexibility for the new CBA and what it might contain.
Remember that Theo’s model in Boston was to use their cash to pick up expiring contracts and take the compensatory picks. The small market owners didn’t like this and when he moved to Chicago they changed the terms in the early 2010s CBA to close that up and prohibit QOs to players traded midseason of their final year.
So the Cubs will enter the 2022 lockout/strike with only three meaningful contracts (Hendricks, Contreras, Heyward). Jed will probably have $100M/year to spend on FA once they know the new set of rules.
Hoyer may have a little money to spend on free agents in the off-season depending if there is a strike or not or the rules behind the Collective Bargaining Agreement but the Cubs have a lot of holes to fill after this season. It seems like there will be some big changes coming in baseball with the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.
KB to Nats…read it here first 🙂
Kieboom!?
Nope. Feels like I been hearing this for 2 years. Definitely heard it from 50 to 100 people last winter.
Nats gon be sellers soon
Why would it be a surprise to see all of those players change teams? If they are waving the white flag on this season what is the point in keeping one or two pending FA’s? To win 80 games instead of 78?
Would the Cubs send money in a deal or would they be trying to shed salary if they sell? I don’t think of them as a franchise that should be that concerned about getting rid of salary that was already budgeted for, but they seemed kind of financially motivated in the offseason. A lot of those trade chips come with sizable salaries which might limit who is capable of taking them on as well as the return.
I think they will pay salary to get the player they want.
Thanks. There’s been chatter in Toronto media about Kimbrel, but I get the sense the Jays would be more interested in taking the salary than giving up a big return. Though they are pretty desperate for bullpen upgrades.
Trading Darvish, their most valuable starter for peanuts was an obvious salary dump and tells you all you need to know about where Ricketts is at at this point in time. He’s spent big money on FAs in the past, but not now. Ironically, Darvish is the one guy that could’ve been a real difference maker for them this season.
A full rebuild isn’t needed though. So why completely start from the ground up if you dont need too,shedding salary to the Ricketts means they’re broke. If I saved 57mol$ in trade I wouldn’t be claiming to be broke. I’d be buying everyone here season tickets to their team and a bottle of what ever their favorite liquor is. The point is the Ricketts are cheap and don’t give 2 s___$ if they lose. That 11 game losing streak is exactly what they wanted. They’d be sellers if they had a 10 game lead in first.
Again, they are four months from losing all those guys for bo diddly squat. Would you rather get something for them or not get something for them.
And please don’t say they can “extend/re-sign them.” Ok? They can still do that if they trade them.
If they’re not gonna win with this crew, logically they won’t win if they trade one or two of them away… So that being the case, why not trade everything you can and jumpstart the future?
Might rather have the comp pick and attendance money over what was offered.
LOL
That’s a fair point.
I think that is why Rizzo will stay, the return would be slight so why upset the fan base even more with Kimbrel, Bryant and Pederson on their way out.
@MannyBeingMVP Maximizing long-term utility from your assets is more important than making fans feel all warm and fuzzy is the reason why they would do that.
At the end of the day, though, anything better than a QO pick ought to get their attention. Some things might be hard to spin optically, such as a trade with the Brewers (hypothetically, not saying they line up) and might thus take a little more to get done, but the Cubs’ only way to drive up the price is if a bidding war starts. I expect there to be one for Kimbrel, probably Bryant, considering he can also play OF, not sure on Baez and Rizzo. There will be interested parties, but probably not enough to ensure a top-notch return.
I’d like to see Jed focus on the AL East for trades. Trade to everybody and make them all step up. It’s still a close enough division, and both Tampa and Toronto have deep farm systems, Boston is contending, and the Yankees finishing fourth will not go over well at all with their fan base. Tampa also owes Kiermeier money through next year plus a 2023 buyout, so acquiring an expiring contract may be a possible swap if there are prospects added.
I would like to see the Mets go after Craig Kimbrel and Kris Bryant. Maybe a package of Veintos, JD Davis, David Peterson gets it done.
More than likely I can see the Braves or Phillies getting Kimbrel and the White Sox are my sleeper team for Bryant.
Not to Sox.
Cubbies would force their expensive RF on us.
I thought Peterson was on the IL?
Trade all of the rentals (not just some, not just most, all).
Trade Kimbrel and Contreras too.
Re-sign Rizzo, Bryant and Baez in FA.
Trade the prospects they got at the 2021 deadline for pitching.
Presto chango! Cubs are contenders again.
Bryant is not coming back. That ship sailed when they played w his service time. Kris has a long memory. Baez possibly.
Jesus Christ, not this again.
Bryant is signing with the highest bidder. If that happens to be the Cubs, then that is where he will sign, service time manipulation or no service time manipulation.
Bryant will be somewhere else, but it is because the Cubs will not be the high bidder, not some ancient slight. $175 million makes the crocodile tears go away real fast, and I think someone will offer Bryant 7 years at $25 million a year. Just not the Cubs.
@MannyBeingMVP No reason Cubs can’t be the highest bidder, traded or not traded.
They did nothing wrong. He even said he didn’t want to do anything. That greedy beady eyes little man Scott Boras convinced him. Bryant even knew he wouldn’t win.
Trading the best catcher in baseball is a very dumb move. You extend him not trade him. Amaya and Contreras as the catching duo for the next 5-10 years would be great. Even with a discount after 2022 the Ricketts wouldn’t pay Contreras
@BillyBaggins…
1. Contreras isn’t the best catcher in baseball.
2. Hoyer can’t just wave a magic wand and extend whoever he wants.
Bryant may be the only one worth signing out of him, Baez and Rizzo. Bryant can play all sorts of positions from the outfield to third base and even replace Rizzo at first base. It seems like Howard is going to replace Baez as the future short stop so there is reason to give Baez a long term extension. Rizzo is on the wrong side of 30 and showed signed of getting older.
Kimbrel to Toronto
KB to Nats
Baez to Philadelphia
Hendricks to SD
Rizzo to Boston
Peterson to NYY
Forgot Pederson is on a 1 yr contract.
Baez to Philly? what?
It’d be wild if the Contreras brothers switched teams (as part of a larger deal, of course).
What happened to that Cubs dynasty we kept hearing about after they won the World Series?
Uncle Jed is still working on it. These things take time.
Joe Maddon happened
They had it. Contenders every year. Not easy to win world series besides Yankees pre mlb draft and still wasn’t that easy, just easier.
yeah, i mean it’s not like they have been the Yankees of old or the early 2010’s Giants, but those dynasties arent common.
Just think of the fun Kris Bryant would have hitting in Arizona….
A “K” is a “K” in AZ as it is in Chitown.
cant wait to see Moncada in the ASG…oh wait.
With that lineup, he’d get pitched around more than prime Barry Bonds.
Bryant and Hendricks to the Mets for Mauricio and Peterson or Szapucki?
I think they’ll hold on to Hendricks. He’s signed thru 2023 and quality starting pitching has been hard to develop for the Cubs.
Padres should bring back Davies for rotation depth.
Davies and Pederson both make sense for the Padres. Tepera could also add depth to the pen for a playoff run. All 3 are rentals.
Padres get Davies, Tepera, and Pederson
Cubs get Mason Thompson, Eguy Rosario, and Lake Bachar
I could see something like this happening. Not very exciting, but if Padres could take on the $8 million due including the Pederson buyout or chip in a couple more similar prospects to have the Cubs pay down part of the salary.
Davies is worth more than that alone.
There is a dearth of starters, but Davies hasn’t exactly been lights out.
Rental starter Zach Davies with his
4.28 era
6.22 xERA
4.81 FIP,
5.36 xFIP
career low 5.71 k/9
career worst 4.69 bb/9
is worth more alone huh Darkside?
These Cubs’ fans just don’t get it!
Tepera will be the Cubs’ closer when Kimbrel is dealt. Davies would command a high price, maybe Robert Hassell.. Not sure the Padres would want Pederson but they could probably get him for Bachar or McWilliams.
Wait a sec, how would Davies cost Hassell?
Chafin will probably get the first shot at the closer role if they aren’t going straight committee
Davies with his 4.28 era 6.22 xERA, 4.81 FIP, and 5.36 xFIP isn’t netting Robert Hassel or a high price.
Davies is a rental and not a guy you’d extend a QO to anyways unless he was having a Cy Young caliber season…..which he clearly isn’t.
Fans should temper their expectations of what cubs will get for
Davies being a rental #4/#5 starter
a rental 4th OF in Pederson batting .226/.294/.406
and a 33 year old rental reliever in Tepera whos good but benefits greatly from a .186 BABIP
The cubs need pitching right now. Unless any of those prospects are ML ready. It has to be a hard pass. I could honesty see Kris Bryant going to SD in a 3 team trade. Wil Myers goes elsewhere. The cubs get 2 players from the Padres and 2 from the third team.
No one wants Wil Myers. Not even if the Padres pay all of his contract.
Mason Thompson is ML ready, already made his debut this year and a pitcher.
Bachar is a pitcher 1 or 2 years away currently in AA.
Which is why I included them instead of other pitchers in A ball.
So who do you think those 2 players from the Padres would be?
CHC just doesn’t have the SP rotation to maintain any kind of winning season for the next few seasons. Too bad, it was good while it lasted.
They will have a ton of money to sign a couple of good free agent pitchers next year.
Literally, $100 million+ and not even touching the CBT. Though, the free agent market is fraught with danger.
It will be alot easier on Hoyer if he re-signs all three; Baez, KB, and Rizzo. Yet, there’s that old adage. It goes like this:
“When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout, Reorganize! Reorganize!”
He resigns all 3 and they get older and badder?
Cubs need pitching. Imagine if they could get someone like Darvish. Oh wait…..
Or Jose Quintana.
Darvish has a 4.98 ERA over his last 8 starts, and was pulled from last night’s game due to back and ? issues.
How did they get the only championship anyone has ever seen in their lifetime? By selling on guys like Samardzja and Dempster. Why on earth wouldn’t they want to do that again?????
Very simple. The Ricketts do NOT want to win. They threw in the towel after they won.
Scrubs SUCK..back up truck an dump for prospects..Go Milwaukee
Cubbies starting a new losing streak tonight!!
Down 8-0 after 8 innings!!
I wonder if a trade centered around Joey Bart could net Bryant and Kimbrel? I know a lot of people are super high on Bart but I think Posey and a solid backup can hold down the fort until Bailey is ready in 2-3 years. Bart and say a Giants top 10-15 prospect for Bryant and Kimbrel, then the Cubs can ship Contreras out for more assets.
LaStella
Yaz
Posey
Bryant
Crawford
Longoria
Belt
Duggar
Pretty darn good lineup right there with McGee, Rogers and Kimbrel as the bullpen three headed monster.
Yes
Sounds interesting.
Kimbrel for Bart straight up would be a win-win. Even if the Cubs keep Contreras.
Bart for a few months of Kimbrel is an overpay imho. I know the Yanks got Torres for Chapman five years ago but the Giants aren’t as desperate for a championship as the Cubs were.
I don’t see it happening, either, but Kimbrel does have a club option for 2022. Makes it slightly more possible.
Why would tbe cubs want another catcher. Making solely as a backup. Nothing more. It would take more to get Bryant and Kimbrel.
@Billy, because Contreras is probably gone after this year and isn’t the best catcher in the game, despite what you’ve said several times. Considering both KB and Kimbrel are rentals, I’d say the Cubs should ask for a lottery ticket in addition, but otherwise, it’s a fair deal.
Have fun keeping Bryant and kimbrel then- Bc if that deal doesn’t get it done- they’ll never get traded.
And u take Bart Bc he has one of the highest ceilings in the game and it’s the best prospect u can possibly get for a Bryant deal.
If Bryant is a target long term for SF- then it’s a solid trade. If SF doesn’t have interest locking him up long term – they won’t give up Bart for him.
SF has the right of it stock piling catchers in the NL. Atleast until there’s a DH. An NL where ur catcher doesn’t bat 8th has a lot more flexibility
I’m not sure that Bart should not be available. He has alarming K/W rate in AAA, at age 24.206. I’d expect something good in return, but Bart, like Adell before him, should not be untouchable.
@JoeBrady basically how I feel completely. If I’m Zaidi the only untouchable in their system is Luciano
@bot Bryant being a target long-term for SF has no bearing on them giving up Bart or not giving up Bart. Bryant is a one year rental and will be seen as such by all potential trading partners.
Realistically, what do you get back for a Rizzo or Baez? I think Bryant and Kimbrel can bring you back something of value, but not sure about the other 2. Rizzo’s numbers are mediocre, Baez is too much an all or nothing kind of player. Undisciplined hitter.
Some combination of couple of backend starter prospects, failed prospects with upside, couple of upside teenagers.
Could see the Jays calling about Hendricks and Kimbrel, and there are some impact prospects that could help restock the Cubs system at the upper levels.
I don’t think the jays will go after expiring contracts but it would be interesting if they also look at Bryant.
Jay’s are more likely to take on a bad contract than to deal out of the top of their farm system. Unless they acquire a bonafide ace like beiber
Cubs had a good run of success. Time to start to at least retool going forward. Keep Rizzo longterm and move on from the rest.
Trade Rizzo then re-sign him in the offseason like they did with Jason Hammel.
I think if Rizzo continues to have a mediocre year and goes to free agency, he might not get the offers he thinks he should. Cubs could sneak in and re-sign him at a bargain.
That’s a shame.
Alas, the inevitable winds of change have arrived at Wrigley Field. They will all be memorialized and bronzed in history. Their final days now dwindling to but a few, blissfully lighting the summer nights. Never to be forgotten.
Let’s not forget Ian Happ. He’s been getting an awful lot of bench time lately. Happ could be part of a multiple player trade. Probably will be.
Please, Rossy. Keep this kid away from second base.
what’s the value in trading him as just an ancillary piece?
Darkside I have no idea…
Cubs should trade everyone.
No they shouldn’t. That’s just dumb.
Blessing here but they probably waited too late – I count 12 tradeable players today with 9 of them expiring at years end….or basically July 31 for Cubs value sake
Contreras Rizzo Baez Bryant Hendriks Kimbrel as the Big Fish
Jake M, Joc ,Davies, Trevor Willams (*2 yrs left), Tepera, and Winkler as the small fish
Hendriks and Contreras can be traded in the offseason worst case but Id think Contreras would have more value in next 3 weeks
Have no clue why they didn’t follow thru after Yu was traded…They have some work cut out from them…I don’t see a huge amount of buyers this year, and some of them are cheap wads like TB and Oak. Chi shouldn’t hesitate too take back bad money as well to accommodate and boast package. Might have to bundle a few with so little Big Buyers—-
I like Rizzo to Bos but don’t see how they limbo under the CBT w/out some help…They really don’t have any expendable Bad money
Bryant to Mets seems perfect
Baez to Oak they take back Piscotty and get a nice deal –
Kimbrel to CWS…lets get weird
Angels get Hendriks and Contrearas in a mega deal
OFC SD will get one of the above ruining my work but it’s a lot of work for the Cubs in a little time. Better start working those phones
Id like My Dodgers to take a look at Davies and possibly Tepera on the cheap if his inj checks out Ok
Just an idea here, nothing more or nothing less, but what IF the Cardinals send DeJong, Bader, cash considerations and their 1st round draft pick in the 2021 draft or 2022 to the Cubs for Ian Happ,or Javier Baez and maybe one of their young left handers Braylin Marquez { I apologize if I misspelled his 1st name} and or Justin Steele. Bader and DeJong are still relatively young and under team control for the next couple of years and both of them are tremendous fielders with power. Just my opinion, but if Bader can learn to put the ball in play consistently and be more patient at the plate he could be a 15-20 homerun hitter and possibly win a gold glove in centerfield for several years while stealing 20+ bases. DeJong has the power to hit 25-30 home runs a year consistently. If he played in Wrigley 81 games a year he very well could do it. For the Cardinals they could put Happ in center or 2nd base, I admit as a Cardinal fan I have always liked Happ because he can play any position on the field without much of a problem and be a switch hitting power hitter they need in their lineup or if they got Baez they can put him at short and keep Edman at 2nd then put Nootbar in right with Carlson manning centerfield on a daily basis. With either Marquez or Steele you get a very young and potentially really good left hander that could fill the Cardinals starting rotation in a couple of years right along with another young potentially very good lefty in Liberatore. The way both teams are right now neither one of them have a snow ball’s in hell’s chance of making the playoffs and the major league players I mentioned probably could use a change of scenery even if it’s with their arch rival to see if it rejuvenates their career’s in some fashion. I know this has a ZERO chance of happening and that I will get ridiculed for suggesting it, but I think it’s fun just to get other people’s opinions and ideas. I also know the Cardinals need starting pitching and maybe another reliever or 2 but with them sitting in a tie for 3rd with the Cubs at 43-45 and 9.5 games back of Milwaukee, any top of the rotation pitcher or reliever{s} they are considering in a trade may not help them this year. if they go 37-37 over their last 74 games of the year they will finish below .500 for the 1st time in about 2 decades. Would that be enough for them to shake things up this coming winter? If not, it could be a very long while before the Cardinals get back in the playoffs let alone win another world championship which would ultimately leave to Arenado wanting out of St.Louis in the near future.
You can’t trade draft picks bub!
Damn it you’re right I totally forgot about that. Thanks for the correction.
Lead not leave.
Silly fan trades proposals are my favorite:
How about Trevor Williams and Jason Heyward for Wander Franco. We can even throw in Rafael Ortega to sweeten the deal.
@frankf The Rays would DEFINITELY accept that!! LOL!
In all seriousness, I hate to say it, but one of the more realistic trade partners for KB is The Brewers. Their offense is middling at best (just dont tell Jake Arrietta,) and while their farm system doesn’t have much, the Brewers are notoriously aggressive buyers when they manage to contend.
What’s the proposal then ? Bryant will get a QO so it’s got to be a better return than a pick around 30. Brewers system is so light – idk how they can offer more than that
Brewers fans, who would you give up for Rizzo?
The Brewers had to pick up Rowdy Tellez because their upper farm system is so bad that they couldn’t find someone to stand at 1B. AAA Nashville had Hernan Perez playing in CF.
Obvious rivalry issues aside, they have nobody who the Cubs would accept for Bryant. Maybe they could swing a deal for Petersen.
Cubs aren’t dealing Bryant or Rizzo or Baez in division to the Brewers, even if their offer is the best (which it is unlikely to be). It won’t happen. Too much blow back from their fans and the local media.
Brewers fan. Yeah not a fan of trading in the division unless it’s minor like a few trades they did with the Pirates.
The few quality prospects the Brewers do have would only be available for controllable players anyways. I just don’t see any interest and thinking they could provide a huge upgrade unless it’s for Kimberl.
There’s easily 10 players on this
Cubs team that could be moved and would draw interest from other organizations. But here’s what really makes me concerned about the direction and future of this team. 1) Can Jed Hoyer receive an acceptable return for whom ever he trades? Personally I don’t trust the front office. 2) Will ownership-The Ricketts, be willing to spend $$ and add free agents?
Again, personally I don’t believe they are willing to do that. It’s looking like a long and trying time for the Cubs.
Best way to rebuild is to pick at the top of the draft. Cubs can easily run a max payroll, and have proven to do so in the past, but if your whole team is made up of 4/5 free agents than best u will ever do is be middle of pack like they are now and like the Phillies are. Have to have a decent mix
Cubs payroll will be increased from around 155 million this year to probably around 180-190 million next. If you don’t re-sign pending free agents, you will have around 120 million to spend in the off-season. Cubs were top 3 in payroll in both 2019 and 2020. They didn’t sign free agents in those years because the payroll was already bloated to over 200 million, and didn’t want to exceed luxury tax. They didn’t spend this year and reduced payroll because of the economic downturn due to pandemic and Wrigley renovation debt load. Hoyer has already said that budget will be increased as things return to normal.
In other words, they will sign free agents to fill in holes, but it will be hard to fill every position with free agents. They need to retain a few guys, make some key trades, and build around that.
Dump them all if possible just like the Phillies clean house managers/coaches included.
Kris Bryant for Bobby Dalbec strait up. Done.
this guy is baldyphoenixtroll
Bryant would fit perfect for the Mets and long term with Cohens money.
As a Giants fan, I could see Zaidi being interested in Kris Bryant, Craig Kimbrel, Joc Peterson and possibly Javier Baez.
I have no idea what a trade package would look like, I do imagine Luciano would be untouchable though.
If you are wanting to trade for all four of those guys, there would be no such thing as an untouchable.
No, I think Luciano would be untouchable. Bart or even Ramos could possibly be had though.
I wasn’t implying that Zaidi would want all 4 of those guys together in a trade package or nothing. I was only thinking the Giants could see some interest in each of those guys for different reasons.
If I had to guess, Kris Bryant would be the one with the highest interest. But who knows, I don’t make a living assembling MLB rosters.
If I were the Cubs I would move all three. You could easily bulk up your farm system with some good talent. Since they won the World Series they are in that no mans land of being decent. Good enough to tease but not really a real threat. They are all looking at big contracts and do you want to tie guys up at their age for 5 + years of big money?
If I am an actual Cubs fan and not just a bandwagon fan, yes I do want to tie up guys at that age for 5+ years.
It just amazes me how some people really just cheer for laundry and stat lines instead of the people actual under the uniform and behind the numbers.
I love Yaz, Smith, Dewey and others, but they might no longer be capable of playing for the RS. I absolutely understand what you are saying about having ‘real’ RS players to root for. But I also don’t want them to be mediocre just so I can keep rooting for the same guys.
Remember, the Cubs didn’t finally win the World Series with that plan. Theo came in and blew it up and people were ticked. With the days of free agency, keeping a team together forever just isn’t a high probability anymore.
Few teams will give up elite prospects for rentals. Not the Dodgers. Not going to see them trade Gray. He is on the mend and will be called up in a few weeks if all goes well.
Joc to White Sox seems to make sense in the quest for OF help and a lefty bat, especially with Eaton DFA’d, Goodwin a shaky filler (although holding his own for now) and Joc’s ST contract. Would the Sox give up Adolfo or Sheets or involve a package including Burger + a couple other prospects (perhaps if Bryant is out of town)…thoughts?
No Joc.
Sox loaded with OF. Sheets has better future with Sox in the OF.
Not giving up anyone for Cubs cr$p.
Interesting, I’m high on Sheets now although question his upside and wonder how long the Sox are content with him in the OF / how long he’ll be blocked at 1st and DH (Cubs might use him as a Rizzo replacement). He’s a traditional 1B like Vaughn (who I suspect won’t be long for the OF after this year) and Eloy was questionable in left before the injury meaning he could get a lot of ABs at DH. Also think Micker will be a decent pro but Sox have gone with Vaughn, Goodwin, Eaton, Hamilton and even Luis Gonzalez over him, so doubt he’ll get an extended look this year considering Sox should be going for it and he’s still in AA. I have been hoping to see Burger get called up for a couple weeks and I have feeling the Sox are showcasing him to flip. After 2 achilles he’s not Kris Bryant despite being a former 1st rounder, could fill that hole as well on North side. Seems like Joc’s versatility in the OF would be worth something as a 4th outfielder with power, playing against rightys. Maybe not Joc, not sure how many guys out there are available that can play right & center and hit for either plus power or average from the left side (I’d take either for Sox). Might take some pressure off La Pantera if/when Loubob comes back this year. Not sure we’ll see him at 100% even in postseason but that’d be sweet if he was.
Braves better avoid Kimbrel.
Kimbrel and Bryant to Phillies if Bryant signs long term.Phils send Hoskins 1b,Marchan C Howard P and Suarez P and of Randolph
@Bob333 Would make more sense for the Phillies to just sign Bryant in the offseason and keep their prospects.
2021: Red Sox over Padres
2022: Braves over White Sox
2023: Dodgers over Rays
2024: White Sox over Padres
2025: Astros over Mets
2026: Indians over Giants
2027: Yankees over Brewers
2028: Cubs over Athletics
2029: Cardinals over Orioles
2030: Braves over Angels
2031: Las Vegas Gamblers over Portland Protesters
The Nashville Stars dynasty will include titles in ‘34, ‘36, ‘38 and ‘39.
In 2028, will Jason Heyward still be starting in right field?
I know a lot of Cubs fans think Cubs will restock the farm system with deadline trades, but most rentals don’t bring you much back. You will be disappointed if you think Rizzo, Baez, or Pederson will bring you back high level prospects. The guys that will bring the most back are Kimbrel, Bryant and then non-rentals like Contreras and Hendricks.
While they don’t bring back a ton, I still think trading away some guys makes sense. You hopefully finish with a lower record for a higher pick, and you get some potential solid pieces in return.
I’d rather them sell off some assets, then stand pat, finish at maybe .500 and hopefully these guys perform well enough for a QO.
I don’t disagree with you btw, was just adding my thoughts to your sensible post.
Davro…our Cubs have always relied on rentals and trades during competitive seasons. Stock up their farm system to win NL pennants? Hmmmm. I’m waiting..
The Cubs waited too long to maximize the value of their assets. Once they made the decision to trade Darvish they should have gone full sell mode. Baez, Bryant, Rizzo or Kimbrel could all help a contender. However, the three expiring contracts are nothing more than fancy rentals. Hard to believe someone is going to offer top prospects or fair value for a 3 month rental. The trading of Darvish made one last run difficult if not impossible. The Cubs are going to pay for this mistake for years.
Bryant and Hendricks to Mets.
Sounds vey reasonable..
Bryant and Kimberly
“Kimberly”
MLB should start a new team in Woodstock. All the Santana’s, Baez, Who on first, Garcia, Put me in Coach, Jefferson, Hendricks (I know), Stone, MacDonald, Canned Heat on the mound, some random guy who retired ten years ago, Guthrie, McGee, and a play where number 25 plays shortstop and tosses the ball to the second baseman, except when they’re playing the Cubs or the White Sox.
You included Sly Stone. You get a +1 for that. A musical genius that not nearly enough people know about.
Contreras and Winkler to CWS . Grandall and Cease to Cubs.
I think the Sox would see right through taking Grandall off our hands while also asking for Cease (back). I’m not sure my despise for Grandall (more so his contract) outweighs my appreciation for Cease. People will start to appreciate Collins now that Larussa can no longer artificially keep his #’s down by playing him almost exclusively against lefties (to keep his arbitration $ lower is guess???) and flash in the pan Mercedes could play vs lefties and put up decent #’s ala James McCann 2020. Winkler could be an intriguing piece to bolster the pen with Marshall and Bummer sidelined. Would probably be a throw-in / value add to a bigger deal. I’d consider Joc and Winkler, cash (Joc’s contract) and PTBNL(s) for Burger and Sheets. Still think Sox should be getting a little more but IMO that’s more realistic.