Nearly four months after trading Andrew Benintendi to the Royals as part of a three-team swap also involving the Mets, the Red Sox announced that they’ve acquired outfielder Freddy Valdez from the Mets and right-handers Grant Gambrell and Luis De La Rosa from the Royals as players to be named later, officially completing the trade. The Red Sox acquired outfielder Franchy Cordero (from the Royals) and minor league righty Josh Winckowski (from the Mets) at the time of the trade, which also sent outfielder Khalil Lee from Kansas City to New York.
The 19-year-old Valdez has yet to progress to A-ball after splitting the 2019 season between the Rookie-level Dominican Summer League and Gulf Coast League. The Mets signed him for a $1.4MM bonus as a 16-year-old out of the Dominican Republic back in 2018. In his lone season of pro ball, he hit .274/.367/.448 with an 18 percent strikeout rate and an 11.4 percent walk rate.
Valdez is generally regarded as one of the Mets’ top 20 prospects, ranking 13th at The Athletic, 14th at MLB.com, 17th at Baseball America and 18th at FanGraphs. FanGraphs’ Eric Longenhagen calls Valdez an “absolute behemoth of a corner outfield prospect” with “thunderous” power, likening him to Indians slugger Franmil Reyes. The Athletic’s Keith Law writes that Valdez has “huge” power with above-average speed and a plus arm, though many scouting reports on Valdez raise questions about his hit tool and his defensive future.
Obviously, given Valdez’s age and the fact that he’s yet to even take a single at-bat in A-ball, he’s years from factoring into the Red Sox’ big league plans. On some levels, there figure to be comparisons to another player the Red Sox received in this trade: Franchy Cordero. Valdez, by all accounts, is a physical specimen at a young age with a tantalizing set of loud tools but has a ways to go before scouts will be sold that those tools can translate at the Major League level. As far as lower-level lottery tickets go, he’s the type that comes with considerable upside but also a fair bit of risk.
Gambrell, 23, is the more highly regarded of the two players coming over from the Royals and also much nearer to the big leagues. Kansas City’s third-round pick out of Oregon State in 2019, Gambrell has tossed 22 2/3 innings of 4.37 ERA ball in Class-A Advanced to begin the season, recording a 19.8 percent strikeout rate, 7.6 percent walk rate and 50 percent ground-ball rate in that time. Longenhagen ranked him 21st among K.C. prospects, noting that Gambrell used the off-time in 2020 to get into better shape and reported to camp in 2021 with a “totally different body” and improved velocity.
De La Rosa is even more of a lottery ticket than Valdez. Still just 18 years old, he signed as a 16-year-old in 2018 and carved up the Dominican Summer League a year later, tossing 38 2/3 innings with a 2.33 ERA, a ridiculous 52-to-7 K/BB ratio and a strong 48.9 percent grounder rate. Despite that exceptional short-season debut, De La Rosa isn’t ranked among the Royals’ best prospects, although he could certainly generate some further recognition if he can back up that dominant 2019 showing at a more advanced level.
The Athletic’s Chad Jennings first reported that the Red Sox would acquire Valdez from the Mets (Twitter link). Julian McWilliams of the Boston Globe reported (via Twitter) that Gambrell and De La Rosa were also headed to the Sox.
so if this was supposed to be the best of the PTBNL…
Time will tell.
Regardless of how it pans out, the Mets prospect was supposed to be the best player they were getting back
This is a Tampa type move that I fully applaud. Not all deals work out but if any of these players develop, the cost once they do would obviously be a lot more. Just keep adding young guys who other teams spent the money signing. The fact that Valdez was universally considered in the Mets’ top 20 says everything to me given his age and lack of pro ball experience. Who really thinks Benny would have turned it on in Boston this year? The fans as they came back would have buried him after his brutal April. I’m glad for AB but I also would not take back the trade.
I didn’t think he was washed up, but it had to be done per their plan. They’re restocking the minors, getting more guys with years of control and staying under the lux tax. I like Benny, but he’s replaceable. Mookie is not, but not a long term investment that is wise. He’s already having back issues. Not a good sign. Good guys though, fun to watch them both.
Mookie has been replaced and so far the deal is a win-win. LA won last year if you believe the season should count and MB was a key component. That said, he was not resigning, if he nonetheless did, Boston would have been hamstrung financially due to taxes. Forget the prospects. I’d rather have JDM, AV and money in my pocket going forward than Mookie and Price. That’s how impressed I’ve been with AV. I also don’t see a loss in RF with Renfroe out there. You put JBJ back in center, Verdugo in left and Renfroe in right and the defense might be even better than 2018. Outside of that amazing catch in 18, AB was nothing special in left.
He’s boom or bust to an extent
When Yordan Alvarez was traded to Houston, the dodgers traded him NOT mainly because he was a future DH, but many scouts were unsure how his in game power would translate. They’re about the same age, especially you factor in the lost 2020 year
You don’t have to be great at a lot in this game to be a potentially valuable guy if you got 40 home run power and can take a walk
Never heard of him. What are his biggest hits?
You could actually read up on him here before mouthing off.
mlb.com/prospects/mets/freddy-valdez-682639
That would require effort.
And the ability to read.
Looks like a nice move by Chaim.
17 years old, looks pretty decent in rookie ball. Sorry to see him go.
19 years old, but still very raw…
It is interesting that lee is ranked as the Mets 7th prospect and Valdez is listed as 14. The Red Sox must see something in him. Weirdly enough, he seems to have a similar hit tool as Franchy.
He’s only 17, that’s why he’s ranked lower. As he moves up in the minors, he’ll move up in the prospect rankings.
He was 17 during his first season in 2019. He’s 19 now
Oh right. I forgot that he had a whole year wiped out.
Scott got rolled for this one by Chaim Bloom. He knew Zack Scott had an infatuation with Lee and look at the bounty he yield. Absolutely no reason to even get involved in that deal. But bloom called up Scott and took advantage of his former coworker. Fire this clown already. And Rojas and trade all the dead weight before it’s too late. Salvage the season.
I agree it seems like a terrible trade for the Mets
Way too early to evaluate this trade or Rojas as a manager. So far, Rojas has passed with flying colors. It makes one wonder the true motives of the anti-Rojas crowd.
Lee’s already made the Majors, so so far he’s been a better MLB player then Winckowski/Valdez. obviously that may not stay that way, but there is a reason neither was a top-tier prospect when dealt.
Yea Lee already made the majors batting .056 1-18 with 13 Ks. So your right Mets got better end of that deal. Valdez is 19 years old and hasn’t made it yet. So I guess that qualifies as a bust in your book. Good golly.
clearly you didnt read my whole comment. Lee has a significantly higher chance to have any impact in the Majors then Valdez does.
How do you know that?
because he’s already played in the Majors, which means he’s 100% played in the Majors. someone who hasnt played in A-ball yet, ballyhooed or not, doesnt have a large change of making the majors.
Khalil Lee: -0.4 WAR, -54 OPS+
There’s a good argument that you’re better off without that player on your team.
Not seen, that can remember any of the 3 Boston got today, but have seen Winkowski pitch several games for Portland this year. other than his 6/4 start, where he gave up 4ER, he’s looked pretty good. Will he end up in the BP eventually, like he did during ST with Boston? Possibly, but he’s looked pretty decent going 5-6 innings so far this year and that De La rosa is a real wild card am looking forward to seeing in Ft myers.
Bottom line is the Mets right or wrong felt Lee could contribute now or next year more than who they gave up. With new ownership, they’re in win now mode. Simple as that. Reminds me in some way of the Heathcliff Slocum trade with Seattle where Boston got back unknowns named Tek and Lowe. Imagine if this trade works out as well for Boston…
He never said “making the majors”. Changing words to fit your argument is tacky. He said make an “impact”, meaning being a decent player.
Valdez probably has a less than 50% chance of even making the majors considering he’s a mid tier prospect with defensive concerns. The bat will have to carry him. As for Lee, SSS. Give him time.
I’d say a lot less than 50%. Your point? But if he shows as much talent as Lee has; I hope he doesn’t.
The point is, Valdez has a better chance to be an impact player. Negative WAR is a negative impact, hence of no value.
You can spin it anyway you want. Most GMs would rather have Valdez.
DarkSide83013 hours ago
because he’s already played in the Majors, which means he’s 100% played in the Majors. someone who hasnt played in A-ball yet, ballyhooed or not, doesnt have a large change of making the majors.
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Brock Holt has played in the majors, and Wander Franco has not. Does your hypothesis apply to them as well?
Oh and if you don’t know Valdez was a high ranked young international prospect.
Couple this with the horrible horrible deal given to Lindor before he even proved he could even handle NYC life and that is two significant strikes. But I have faith in Cohen to do the right thing and start over with a real GM instead of pecker boy and Chaim Blooms little lapdog.
there are dozens of those every year.
It’s part of Bloom’s goal of increasing the breadth of the Red Sox system. Fans are always looking for the next superstar, but managing a team requires increasing quantity that can also be used in trades down the line.
Exactly. The opposite of what dombrowski did. People argue he didn’t really trade much of value beyond kopech and moancada but the reality is, you need to have a deep farm system if you want to be able to sustain a contender. When you only have a few highly regarded guys and then you trade them, the window for contention becomes very small very quickly.
Stop blaming DD. Ownership specifically hired him to win now at all costs and he’s done that every step of the way (WS championships with FL and Boston, league title with Detroit). Anyone doubt by 2024, there’s a cheesesteak parade in Philly? Money talks and a championship today pays dividends for about three years. I also believe if DD had stayed with the taxes reset, he would have retooled, etc. Not every team can produce like the Dodgers and for all the talk about Tampa’s GM history and that of Billy Beane, how many championships have those clubs recently won?
No one is blaming DD. I agree, he did what he was hired to do. My point was that many people claim he use the argument that he didn’t trade anyone of value as a counterpoint against him leaving the Red Sox with a thin minor league system. My point was that you have to have a deep system to have a sustainable contender. It’s not always about how the players you trade pan out, it’s also about a having a deep farm with players that are considered good enough prospects that teams will want to acquire in deals. When you send out your only highly regarded prospects and never bring in any new players into the system, it makes it very hard to make any kind of deals. Even if none of these guys end up top MLB talent, if you bring in enough guys you’re increasing your chances that some guys work out and also giving yourself a better chance to make trades.
Most fans think each roster move exists in a vacuum. They don’t understand or care about the big picture. Notice how quick they are to assess who got the better of a trade. After years of following the game, you would think they’d learn that’s not how it works. The true contenders tend to have organizational depth.
No one is assessing the trade other than in that we are speculating based on facts at hand mixed with personal opinion. That’s part of what we do here. Of course the trade COULD turn out good for the Mets. My prediction is that it won’t.
There are no facts to evaluate at this point. All opinions need to be based on facts. Since the fans chiming in haven’t seen him play or even heard of him, it’s probably best they chime out. Why speculate? Btw, there are people here assessing the trade. Some have suggested Lee is a bust based on a tiny sample size of at-bats and completely ignoring his defense (he made excellent catches on consecutive nights). People are too quick to judge.
Cey Hey: I’m making a prediction based on minor league stats. That’s what they’re there for. I’m not sure what the issue is. We look at stats, we make predictions based on them.
Cey Hey – Opinions are merely someone’s personal beliefs about a certain topic; they do not need to be based on facts. Most opinions of this nature are based on ‘gut feel’. I do agree that there is not enough data available to determine who ‘won’ this trade, and we won’t know for years. If you only want to consider facts, then the Royals won this trade hands down because Benintendi is hitting close to .300 and has become an integral part of the Royals lineup; no one else involved has done anything of note (Lee was horrible in his Mets MLB debut). In my opinion, it sure feels like the Royals gave up a lot of potential talent for a player they only control for 2 years…only time will tell.
Cey Hey: It’s not a only tiny sample size of MLB at bats he’s being judged on. His entire minor league career exists as well, you know. His minor league stats just don’t indicate successful everyday major leaguer.
Minor Leagues are far development. It’s not just about stats.
Opinions are always based on some kind of factual evidence. Kids learn this when they begin debating in sixth grade. If you can’t back your take with evidence, then it’s not an opinion. It’s just mindless spewing. People here are passing judgment on prospects they’ve never seen play.
Cosmo, that is absolutely not what minor league stats are there for. LOL
Definition of Opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
my account, They are. You CAN use minor league stats to judge a players future, up you just have to make adjustments. LOL all you want, the point has simply gone over your head.
Ok Cey Hey, if you wanna believe that YOU can’t evaluate a player with educated speculations based on minor league stats you limit yourself all you want. I’ve personally had some success with such predictions. Experts such as Bill James also agree in the usefulness of such stats for future predictions so I’m not just making this up.
Cey hey , “Most fans” sounds like an incorrect assessment. Guess it comes down to your definition of “fan”. When u say “most” your saying what? 75-85% of “fans” aren’t as intelligent as you are when it comes to this topic? I wonder if after a couple drinks your assessment would get closer too nobody knows squat about this topic other than me. Lots of educated fans out there. I wouldn’t make my determination on “most” of anything based on this chat section alone.
@gronk I agree it depends on the platform. I equate here to YouTube comments. The quality of comments on some other sites I also visit is night and day.
lordd99 – Your theory is flawed. First Bloom’s an idiot so thinking he is actually increasing the breadth of the Red Sox system is like say DD destroyed the farm system. It can’t be farther from the truth.
DD did what good GMs do, he used the farm system as an asset for building the Red Sox roster. He graduated guys that had talent and traded guys to get guys he needed to win. Did losing Espinoza hurt the Red Sox? No. Were we weaker in the farm system? No.
Likewise when Bloom adds a schmuck to the minors is the farm system better? No. It just has a different guy in the roster spot and someone that was there is now looking for work. Did it help the Red Sox to add 5 guys in the Benny deal? No. It simply gave the farm system 5 different guys who may or may not develop into MLB players and it gave away a starting left fielder who is batting 3rd in KC.
Without a doubt, being a GM is not about stockpiling it’s about winning. If you think stockpiling will lead to winning count the rings in Boston during the 2010s and then count the rings in NY or LA. In Boston it has been about winning so the minors should be used to improve the major league roster through graduation or trade.
Two years ago nobody talked about Houck being great. After last year, fans and evaluators of farm systems realized they got it wrong with regard to Houck. Same can be said about Pivetta. That’s why DD focused on ways to improve the MLB team not build depth in a farm system. There is NEVER a guarantee that those players procured from other teams will actually contribute at the MLB level. Stars in hand however do add to the MLB team. Benny would be adding to the team but instead the Red Sox have 5 nebulous minor league pieces that may or may not be of value to the Red Sox down the road.
Did the Red Sox trade for Bogaerts, Betts, Devers or Benny? No. They were all home grown despite people saying the farm system sucked. Bloom is used to living in poverty in TB and now he’s living the good life but behaving like he still lives in poverty. They have the money to get real players to help the MLB team. They don’t need depth in their minors they need talent in the majors.
Thinking a farm system is anything more than a tool to win is delusional. Ask the Yankees and Dodgers. The Red Sox have rings because their GMs have gone and got the talent to win a ring. Bloom has NEVER gotten talent in his job in TB or in Boston. He’s gotten complimentary repair parts at best. Giving up legitimate talent like Benny for unicorns is bad baseball. You have to hope the other team made a mistake for you to gain in the deal and the whole time you have a guy that is what those new guys aspire to be.
It’s like trading $1M today for $1M ten years from now. That million dollars ten years from now is worth half the million dollars today. That’s exactly what happened in the Benny deal. Bloom is selling people on hope rather than reality. Hope doesn’t win rings, reality does.
“ He graduated guys that had talent and traded guys to get guys he needed to win. Did losing Espinoza hurt the Red Sox? No. Were we weaker in the farm system? No.”
Do you really think Espinoza FOR A RELIEVER was the big headliner that people refer to when saying DD tanked their system? Not that Chris Sale overpay? One trade for a reliever! That’s the one to look at! When you use such idiotic examples to try to force your point, you look like a joke
“ Likewise when Bloom adds a schmuck to the minors is the farm system better? No.”
This is literally how you make a system better. Add young guys with loud tools
“ Did it help the Red Sox to add 5 guys in the Benny deal? No. It simply gave the farm system 5 different guys who may or may not develop into MLB players and it gave away a starting left fielder who is batting 3rd in KC.”
If adding guys to a system isn’t how you improve the system, how do you improve the system?
And Benny has a 750 OPS. He’s mediocre not amazing. He’s no star
Imagine hating on LA’s 2010 decade. 8 division titles and 3 pennants, with a ring
Boston’s magical 2010-2020 had 2 rings… along with 7 years of missing the playoffs. The other 2 years, they lost in the first round. How the heck is that a winning decade?? That’s 2 winning seasons and mediocrity. With your Benny crush, maybe you just love mediocre things
“ In Boston it has been about winning so the minors should be used to improve the major league roster through graduation or trade.”
Again. Moron. How do you improve a team if you first don’t acquire talented prospects? They either are needed for trades or to graduate. How do you think DD got him trade ammo? Four to five years of sucking before he made 1 or 2 major deals
You’re claiming Bloom is doing WHATS NEEDED to win, while whining how bad Bloom is
“ Stars in hand however do add to the MLB team. Benny would be adding to the team ”
He’s been pretty meh with the bat. This would literally be his lowest OPS for a full season if the year ended today. He’s not that good! Bloom got 5 players for a clearly expendable, mediocre piece
“ Bloom has NEVER gotten talent in his job in TB or in Boston. He’s gotten complimentary repair parts at best. Giving up legitimate talent like Benny for unicorns is bad baseball.”
Yet… he’s winning games at a 20% higher clip with more time to build a team with his vision. It’s almost like…. you’re 100% wrong….
“ Hope doesn’t win rings, reality does.”
I remember people hoping the 2019 and 2020 Red Sox would be good. Oops. 3rd and last place in the ALE. That won’t win a title! Reality!
Yet reality is 2021, the team with the most of Bloom’s fingerprints, is playing .600 ball, without your savior Benny. It’s like Bloom is infinitely smarter than you at building a baseball team that will win for 5 years at a time, not just 1 here or there like your hero DD
Only fools think Bloom lost this trade. Thanks for outing yourself
BeforeMeCount – Go read some books on baseball and get back to me. You have NO IDEA how anything works in a front office but I”m going to dress you down anyway.
First, Espinoza was an example not the entire list. Second, the Sale deal was genius and the fact that you don’t think so shows your ignorance with respect to front office moves. Sale came to the Red Sox at a discount and the Red Sox gave up the top prospect in baseball who was grossly over-rated. It’s now four years later and the White Sox are finally cashing in on the trade while Boston has a ring. Kopech has been a 100 mph bust and Sale started two all-star games while on the Red Sox. Your inability to evaluate trades is EPIC.
Your next words of wisdom were that Bloom adding Schmucks is how you build a farm system!! On what f’in planet? There is no guarantee these schmucks are better than the ones already in the system. Their testies have barely dropped!! Two years ago nobody was talking about Houck one of the minor league players kept by DD. Why? Because they didn’t perceive the skill set at a 20 mile glance. The farm system rankers are idiots. They ranked Blake Swihart higher than Mookie.
There is a huge difference between adding quality depth and depth. Your distorted perception is that Boston has added quality depth yet the best players in their minors are from before Bloom. So where is all this quality depth?
Next, Jackass, you have a fundamental flaw in your thinking. In the 2010s the Red Sox graduated more starters than any other team. Yep nearly every player on the 2018 starting defense was home grown. So why did the Red Sox need to build depth? Why fix something that isn’t broken? Nobody should give a rat’s rear end whether the farm system doesn’t have a high rating. It doesn’t reflect reality. The 2010s proved a poorly ranked farm system can be the most productive in doing it’s job of providing talent to the MLB team. You really don’t know baseball at all.
There is nothing that documents any significant additions under Bloom’s watch. In fact nearly every crap utility player he has brought in has been a bust and the ONLY decent pick-up so far has been Pivetta and guys like you probably complained when that happened since he didn’t have a high rating. You have no idea what talent is. The Red Sox are loaded with minor league talent, it’s simply not famous like Houck. They still graduate a starter nearly every year and with Dalbec being added this year and Duran by next year (note they aren’t Bloom guys) the tradition of the poor farm system in Boston will continue being the most productive in baseball.
Benny may not be liked by you but his numbers say he is an inexpensive player who consistently exceeds league average. For his price, he delivers an equitable return. Not everyone is a Betts. No team can afford a field filled with Betts-like players except the Yankees. Benny was a well priced contributor that allowed for Boston to have guys like JD, Sale, Bogaerts and Betts. Unfortunately ownership had their head up their rear-end like you and lost their franchise player and replaced him with a cheap Betts wannabe. Frugal and ineffective.
Now it’s time for your lesson on how to read baseball stats. OPS+ is the number used by most knowledgeable baseball fans to compare OPS+ across years. Why? Because each year is different and can not be compared straight up. Livelier baseballs, better pitching and larger or smaller strike zones all impact each individual year. The OPS+ number normalizes the data for comparison MORON. Benny has a 108 OPS+ today and it’s rising as he settles in with KC. In Boston he averaged 111 over three years and had one bad partial season in 2020. As he climbs back to his norm in KC the Red Sox fans are watching a clown named Cordero provide a 29 OPS+. FYI since you obviously don’t understand baseball numbers, an OPS+ of 100 is league average. Benny’s worst full year he had a 100. Devers worst year he had 94. Anyone can have an off year compared to the excellent other years.
4 unknown quantities and a crap OF for Benny, an above league average good defensive outfielder that was properly priced. Only a moron would conclude that this was a good deal as of today. The deal sucks and can only be justified if in several years two of the 4 unknown quantities turn into all-stars. Why all-stars? The time value of money. Good players five years from now are worth a lot less than good players today. That’s probably beyond your extremely simple mind.
Next jackass, Bloom isn’t winning games. I have yet to see him in a uniform. The 2018 core team is winning games and he had NOTHING to do with procuring them. Talk about 100% wrong!!! Wow what an idiot. Do you really think the current team’s performance has anything to do with Bloom? Wake up. Pivetta is his only trade piece unless you count the huge step down from Mookie to Verdugo. That’s a negative that off-sets the Pivetta add. As far as free agents go, after a third of a season Richards hasn’t gotten hurt so that’s a plus but it’s not the reason Boston is winning.
One last point to show how incredibly stupid you are. You do realize that your statement about 2019 and 2020 applies to both DD and Bloom right? Bloom mastered the worst finish in years by not taking action and replacing the huge divets he put in the line-up with the Mookie debacle DD got blamed for the injuries in 2019 and the enormous screw-up by Cora during spring training.
Now without adding anything other than Pivetta you are giving Bloom credit for the temporary success in 2021? There are no fingerprints left on the current team by Bloom except Pivetta. Ask yourself why they are winning and the answer is JD, Bogey, Devers and the huge step down called Verdugo not Mookie. If one part provided by Bloom went away the team would be no different. If one of DD’s building blocks got hurt and missed time the team would plummet. You are living in a dream world. Bloom is worthless as a GM and needs to go. Along with him they need to part with the guy who does leave fingerprints, that’s Cora. Together, they are two of the worst hires in Boston history.
Ignorance is bliss and you appear to be a very happy guy!!! You completed embarrassed yourself with your stupidity. Next time you disagree with someone that know so much more about baseball than you, just write your comments without the insults so they don’t have to dress you down and reveal your incredible lack of intelligence.
I believe the mike drop happens now jackass!!! .
You need help.
It’s mic, not Mike. My head hurts.
KD, that was by far the goofiest thing I’ve read this week. You didn’t “dress him down,” you simply proved YOU have no idea how to run a baseball team and disproved yourself by citing the 2018 Sox depth via prospevt graduation. So prospects are important when it is convenient for you? How do you know Bloom is bringing in schmucks? You said prospect rankers are idiots, so if they say Valdez is a mid tier prospect, their opiniom shouldn’t matter when evaluating a trade. So since you know all about Valdez and have seen him play enough to call Bloom a moron, educate us on him.
And crediting the 2010s Boston is convenient when you ignore the building up the 2010s Dodgers and Padres did via the farm to become the best teams in baseball. And, oh yeah, LA won the World Series last year if you’ve forgotten… with lots of homegrown talent who were once PROSPECTS– Bellinger, Kershaw, Urias, May, Buehler, Will Smith, etc. which allowed them to trade for and extend Mookie, extend Turner, and so on.
Fact of the matter is BeforeMcCourt is smarter than you, dork.
KD17
Ignorance is bliss and you appear to be a very happy guy!!! You completed embarrassed yourself with your stupidity.
Wow, this sentence 100% spot on about yourself. smh
myaccount – Another tool without a clue but a big mouth. I’m shocked. How do you know the guys are not schmucks? That’s the point of calling them schmucks. They have no current value only potential which is completely unknown to you, me and the ratings people. Thus schmucks.
The Dodgers pre-Friedman had some outstanding drafts. Friedman got lucky with Buehler and that’s about it so far. Unfortunately, they did NOT have the key to winning thus the massive drought for the great Los Angeles Dodgers. They won as many rings as I did until the shortened season of 2020. Wow, I’m impressed. They had to acquire their best player from Boston to win. That same player was the star for Boston in 2018. So much for winning using home grown players. No Mookie no ring!!
The Padres are a joke. Even a hapless guy like you has as many rings as they do. You have to win before you are considered the best team in baseball. They are nothing more than a talented team that can’t win, just like the Dodgers for over 30 years. The Yankees are struggling from the same decade long ineptitude. It’s great that you like teams but that doesn’t make them great, winning does.
I sure wish they would ban mindless teenagers from the sight. You have nothing to say except this is what I think and it’s right. Try using facts to support your arguments! Maybe when you get out of high school you’ll understand the world better. Next time, try nanananana it better suits your intellect.
Lamar Smith – Tell me how long did it take to come up with that beauty? I feel so crushed!! hahahaha Jackass.
Hunter Renfroe, Franchy Cordero, Danny Santana and now Valdez. Chaim Bloom certainly has a specific type of player in mind for the corner outfield positions.
Boston has the strongest presence of any team in the D.R.. I’m sure they are very familiar with him.
Bloom is from the Tamp Bay/Friedman family tree. I would trust his instincts on earl;y evaluation of international prospects (and prospects in general). I thought he was an excellent hire at the time and haven’t seen anything to make me change my mind. He’s carrying forth with his long-range plans despite having to make an unpopular move out of the box.
Prospects Are Suspects…
Mets could have had one of the 3 Big Starting Arms The A’s had in the mid – 2000’s but wouldn’t part with LASTINGS MILLEDGE ….
i honestly think Lee was the best prospect and 2nd best player exchanged in the deal.
I don’t see what folks see in Lee. Looks like a solid 4th OFr, can play CF but I don’t see him as an everyday player.
Red Sox chose to bring the Mets in the deal, rather than keep Lee for themselves.
They probably agree with your assessment.
Gambrell’s the best player the Sox got imo
Agreed, Gambrell has the goods. Kind of sad he was involved.
So…the Royals are giving up, yet the Twins haven’t moved anyone yet to some of these other desperate teams….time to go Falvine.
misread…ignore….why’d it take so long to complete? anyway…my position on the Twins still stands…tear it down, or fire away
I would have rather kept Winckowski and Valdez.
Lee is as strikeout machine with very little upside in my opinion; the next Keon Broxton.
And I know I will get the rebuttal comments about being young, which makes this all fun, but 13 Ks in 18 AB with his minors strikeout rate near 40% isn’t going to change.
BOSOX Fans, what happened to Benintendi? Didn’t get to see him play a lot, but remember him being a good player for several years. Injuries?
He was a solid player in 2018, after which he went to the gym and bulked up to be a power hitter for 2019, which had the effect of crippling his hit tool. He slimmed down again for 2020 but didn’t recapture the hit. The strikeouts were off the hook and the baserunning, when he did get on base, was hallucinatory. He became a prime “change of scenery” candidate, hence the trade. The fact that Bloom got five players for him is nothing short of miraculous. I’m glad that Benintendi is hitting in KC (I think big outfield has something to do with that) because I wouldn’t want Bloom tarred with the idea that he only trades dead weight (Workman/Hembree to Phila.).
Workman/Hembree netted us Pivetta and Seabold. And Workman is now back with the Red Sox. Love the move by Bloom.
The hell, @MLBTR.
A couple dozen articles & narry a one on the Yanks? What is this? Some kind of equal treatment thing?
You guys know which side your bread is buttered on.
#LetsMakeNewYorkTradeRumorsGreatAgain
Oh.
Yeah.
Interesting prospects, etc, etc.
Admittedly, there hasn’t been anything interesting on NYY prospects lately or the past few years. I settle right now for #YankeesOffenseHasComeAliveSponsoreByMLBTR
Sox got taken on this one. Cordero stinks and these guys appear to be no more than AA material. Only hope is Winckowski.
The trade can’t be fairly evaluated for several years. I’m guessing Sox will look good on this in 4 years.
The kid Valdez sounds like Franchy Cordero – no? Long shot. I still don’t like the trade.
Trade Evaluation –
Red Sox give away –
Benny (hits 3rd in the KC line-up with a 109 OPS+ after starting slowly.)
Red Sox receive –
Frenchy Cordero – Crap hitter and defensive liability
Grant Gambrell – 3 year college career unimpressive 3.47 ERA and 1.33 WHIP for Oregon State. In two seasons of minor league ball his ERA is 5.62 and a 1.51 WHIP. Potential for becoming a major league add for the Red Sox? Nearly zero.
Luis De La Rosa – 18 year old Dominican pitcher with next to no history. A complete unknown quantity. He started 11 games and pitched just 38.2 IP in the Dominican summer league. Wait and see is about all you can say about him.
Freddy Valdez – 19 year old Dominican outfielder who got 10 at bats at rookie ball so far. Again, like De La Rosa this kid is unknown. Less info than a high school player would have. No way to know what type of potential.
Josh Winckowski – 23 year old pitcher who in 2019 pitched at low and high 1 with an ERA of 2.69 and a WHIP of 1.20. At 21 that was an excellent year. In 2021 he’s been promoted to AA and has only thrown 27 IP with 1.33 ERA and 0.89 WHIP.
So they traded an inexpensive above league average OF loved by the fans for 5 guys.
Two young Dominican players who are unknown quantities, an unimpressive young pitcher who doesn’t look like he will make the majors without a complete change in his statistics, a crap outfielder in Frenchy and ONE guy with potential yet to be realized.
This is a travesty without Winckowski. With him, it simply looks like a bad trade which is fairly standard for Bloom. Could this turn into a great trade for Boston? Sure, if the two unknown youngsters become starters in a couple of years, Winckowski is a starter in a year and Frenchy figures out how to hit and field. Could this be a huge disaster? Sure if Benny gets better and becomes a perennial all-star and HOFer. Neither scenario seems likely so lets just leave it as a bad trade and that’s without considering the time value of players playing now versus later.
Loved Beni early on, but he had not been good for 2 years. And he’s not exactly an inexpensive player anymore, in fact he’s getting more expensive. Nice to see him doing well, but as a Sox fan I love this deal.
Agree. Beni had not put the bat on the ball for 2.5 years and when he did it was a slap to 2b. Filling up the minor league rosters with 5 guys for what he looked like at the end of last season is just fine with me.
2.5 yrs? Up until the last 6 weeks if 2019 he was hitting as well as he had in ’17 and ’18. He slipped horribly the end of ’19 and ’20 was just a complete loss. I think Bloom did fine considering he sold low. But you can easily make the argument that the Sox would be even better this year with him in LF and could have brought back a top 10 prospect if his resurgence is for real.
StudWinfield – Thank you for the improvement on what really happened in Benny’s career. Fact is he was equal to 100 OPS+ in 2019 and above it the previous 3 years and finished second in ROY to Judge in 2017. Devers had an OPS+ of 94 in 2018. YES, below league average!!! That’s below Benny’s lowest full season iin 2019. Did we toss him on the garbage heap? Nope. He got treated like a king. Funny how prejudice impacts the future of MLB players!!!
The Red Sox front office should be ashamed of themselves for their prejudice and reverse discrimination against Benny. That’s not the way to make up for lacking diversity in dealing with Mookie and Price. Nor is hiring a serial cheater or black female coach. The Red Sox need a house cleaning at the highest level. Real unbiased baseball people need to be inserted in the front office to provide integrity to the organization. They need to return to the concept of playing the best players and not evaluating them based on their color, country of origin or religion.
Benny is making $6.6M and he’s not one dimensional like Devers and JBJ. He hit a tailspin in late 2019 that brought his OPS+ down to league average and then got hurt in 2020 during a short season. So the Red Sox trashed a guy for having 3/8ths of a bad season!! That’s bull crap. He deserved better after all he contributed during the 2018 World Series run.
For justkidding and dbdmack – get your facts straight before you wrongfully disparage a guy who got screwed by the Red Sox brass.
If you love this deal then you aren’t really rooting for the Red Sox to win and be great again. They gave up far more than they got back. That’s called a BAD DEAL.
Filling up the minor league rosters with 5 guys for what he looked like? That’s such an ignorant comment. You do realize there are NO MORE minor league players in the Red Sox organization after the deal? They put 5 new schmucks in the minors and moved 5 old schmucks to being grocery baggers and none of it will make the Red Sox better. Benny would be making the Red Sox better right now but instead we got crepe paper to stuff in our minor league bag of talent.
Some fans new to the game need to understand adding minor league players IS NOT adding depth. You don’t keep extra players you simply cut players who may or may not end up better than the guys you get. It’s like swapping out an empty popcorn bag for an empty oreo bag. No net gain, just different crap in your minors.
So your huge rant is about race. You are mad they traded an average white player that you are in love with. Red Sox fans will never change. Stay classy.
CobiEven your comment is worse than KD17 because you’re grouping all Red Sox fans together WITH HIM. That’s uncalled for. And if you read KD17 he trashes the Red Sox every chance he gets.. ownership, management, coaches, and most of the players they keep. Players they dump he Raves about.
Because one Red Sox fan, er, sorry, commentor, misappropriates the race card doesn’t mean you can group all of us into that cart. You are doing exactly what you’re claiming he’s doing but way worse.
Yeah, that second paragraph about ‘reverse discrimination’ really gives this clown away.
@Gary: interesting that you get offended that Cobi called out this guy’s racism but have nothing to say about this guy’s racism. In fact, you’re calling him lumping all Red Sox fans together ‘way worse’ than this dude’s racism (it’s not; the guy’s racism is way worse). Looks like Cobi may have a point.
RCT it’s all bad. Sorry I missed calling out some of it.
Racism is all bad but what irks me is people who cry it out then group others together all in one batch. That’s all I’m saying. I shouldn’t have said “way worse.” Good call.
CoblEven – Everything in the Boston front office is about race. They lost their best minority players due to a lack of diversity. They then try to prove that isn’t their issue by reverse discrimination. It’s a mess beginning with ownership. Preferential treatment for players like Devers and JBJ. A spit in the face for Mookie and Price.
Your comments are ignorant considering what I said. You’re a troll and you had to make a comment unrelated to your team. Go back to your own site and crap on your fans.
GaryWarriorsRedSox – Thanks? For the record you statement about who I trash is not accurate. Ownership = Absolutely they deserve it. Management – Absolutely they hired a convicted serial cheater and a clueless GM. Coaches – I have focused mostly on the horrendous pitching coaches since Farrell left.
I object to your suggestion that I trash most of the players. I complain about Devers’ defense but that should be so obvious because he’s led the league in errors since he arrived in Boston. I complained about JBJ’s hitting but that comes with a major league player hitting .239 for 8 years. I have often written good things about many of the players including Bogey, JD, Betts, Benny, Moreland, Vazquez, Sale, Price, PIvetta, Houck, Chavis, Dalbec, Duran and Mata.
I have pointed out that Downs is inappropriately rated as a prospect since he never played well enough to graduate from AA ball and a highly touted first round pick should be farther along in his career and achieved more by now. Those are opinions shared by more and more people since his ranking is falling as expected.
Yes, I support the players but I also acknowledge the issues with playing players out of position like Devers or starting a player who can’t hit for 8 years in center field. That’s not hate that’s a fan’s desire to see the team win. I’m guessing you don’t agree with every move the Red Sox make so do you hate the players using the same logic? I’m guessing no, the same guess you should have made about me.
I stand by my issues with Ownership, Management, and pitching coaches but I deny having issues with the players in general. I read the stats and ask questions why specific players are getting better than average or worse than average opportunities. If you think that’s wrong, too bad.
I also find it odd that you suggest that I am playing the race card. Help me understand what that phrase means to you. I point out the ownership lacks diversity and I’m playing the race card? Then, I point out their reaction is to prove they are diverse by making reverse discrimination moves to show the public how diverse they are and again I’m inappropriately playing the race card? Help me understand how that works. Should any race related/motivated actions by ownership not be discussed? Should we censor any thoughts on why the two most prominent black players were ceremoniously dumped to LA? Or is it ok to write about the lack of diversity in the Red Sox ownership because it’s a pretty well known fact? Help me understand if the hair on the back of your neck stands up when I say the ownership is not diverse in their thinking or the front office uses reverse discrimination to try to fix the problem with diversity. To me, those statements reflect both sides of issue so I’m wondering why you labeled them misappropriate. You don’t agree that there is systemic issues clouding the ownership’s behavior toward minority players or you don’t believe they have ever used reverse discrimination to present an appearance of being diverse? Which concept were you referring to in your statement?
I’m talking about issues on both sides of the fence and you are suggesting I’m standing only on one side and frankly I’m not sure which side you are suggesting I’m standing on because I’ve been very vocal about the lack of diversity in forcing your star player to leave to get better treatment from ownership and I’ve been vocal about what a terrible trade it was when Boston dumped Benintendi after 3/8ths of a bad year yet they continue to let Devers play 3B even though he makes the most errors in baseball. I talk to both sides of the issues! Do you? Or do you shout from the crowds anonymously so nobody can attack you like you attacked me?
Last point, you don’t need to protect Red Sox fans from a troll like CobiEven. He’s trying to get his 15 minutes in the limelight by insulting commenters rather than talking baseball. He’s a troll.
RCT – Learn how to read you jackass. You are the racist for ONLY selecting passages that allow you to shout racist at someone else. You are incredibly ignorant. I pointed out how the Red Sox have an issue with diversity because they traded away their two best black players for nothing and then they tried to erase their racism by using reverse discrimination on Benny. From all that, you only got the reverse discrimination part. Pathetic. You are a true hater.
I laid out how the Red Sox showed discrimination against blacks and then whites and all you can do is shout out that I’m a racist because of the white part. Again, you are the racist and a really below average reader with very poor comprehension skills.
Franchy plays very good defense already; he just needs to learn how to hit. One of the reasons they moved on from Benny is that his defense fell off the table in 2019-2020. He was dreadful in the OF. Not sure how he’s doing defensively for KC this year, but I’d take Franchy over Benny for OF defense right now. Looks like Franchy is starting to tear it up in AAA so we might see him back in Boston real soon.
Dorothy – Help me understand the basis of your defensive comments about Benny.
In 2016 he played in 32 games (both left and center field but mostly left field).
He had a fielding percentage of .982 on 56 total chances. He made 1 error.
In 2017 he played in 149 games with a similar mix between LF and CF.
He had a fielding percentage of .982 on 273 total chances. He made 5 errors.
In 2018 he played in 144 games with the same mix between LF and CF.
He had a fielding percentage of .984 on 257 total chances. He made 4 errors.
In 2019 he played in 136 games with a similar mix to the previous 3 years.
He had a fielding percentage of .990 on 193 total chances. He made 2 errors.
In 2020 he played in 13 games and only played left field.
He had a fielding percentage of 1.000 on 20 total chances. He made 0 errors!
Your statement conflicts with the facts above!!
“One of the reasons they moved on from Benny is that his defense fell off the table in 2019-2020. He was dreadful in the OF”.
His defense DID NOT fall off. It was NEVER DREADFUL. You made all that up. You deceive readers by writing things that aren’t even close to true.
Last point – Frenchy has had 181 total chances in the outfield over the last 5 years. His fielding percentage is .950. He’s made 9 errors during that time.
Benny has had 877 total chances (roughly 600 more) during his 6 years in the pros (counting this year) and he’s made 14 errors and his fielding percentage is .984.
I am amazed that you would prefer Frenchy to Benny. Apparently, you had no clue as to the facts. That’s usually the best way to draw conclusions, by using facts not simply voicing uninformed opinions.
You can keep Frenchy on defense and offense, I’ll take Benny the far superior player both offensively and defensively.
In Boston, Benny was improving on defense not falling off. Huge misconception on your part.
“ Less info than a high school player would have.”
Wtf he played in the GSL
“ Benny (hits 3rd in the KC line-up with a 109 OPS+ after starting slowly.)”
Aka his lowest OPS in his career. “Benny” is great because the leagues offense is down, while ignoring he’s at his worst this year? What an argument
“ So they traded an inexpensive above league average OF loved by the fans for 5 guys.
Two young Dominican players who are unknown quantities, an unimpressive young pitcher who doesn’t look like he will make the majors without a complete change in his statistics, a crap outfielder in Frenchy and ONE guy with potential yet to be realized.”
So there’s two Dominican guys you’re too lazy to do any research on, plus Winckowski. Yet it’s only 1 guy with unrealized potential? You’re such an unbiased reviewer of talent.
“ You do realize there are NO MORE minor league players in the Red Sox organization after the deal? They put 5 new schmucks in the minors and moved 5 old schmucks to being grocery baggers and none of it will make the Red Sox better. ”
Oh yeah where are those 5 releases? You’re full of it. They get assigned to a training site then a team. They don’t just fire guys when they get more. Wow you’re dumb
“ Benny is making $6.6M and he’s not one dimensional like Devers and JBJ. He hit a tailspin in late 2019 that brought his OPS+ down to league average and then got hurt in 2020 during a short season. So the Red Sox trashed a guy for having 3/8ths of a bad season!! That’s bull crap. He deserved better after all he contributed during the 2018 World Series run.”
3/8ths of one season? You just admitted he had two horrible years. Lmao. Thank you for admitting all this whining is an irrational love for a player and nothing else
“ Could this be a huge disaster? Sure if Benny gets better and becomes a perennial all-star and HOFer”
Please put down the glue. You think there’s ANY chance “Benny” is anywhere near a HOF track? Hahahah. Look man. You clearly loved a guy years ago and refuse to acknowledge he’s not as good. But you don’t need to hate guys you clearly are too lazy to really research.
You look petty
“ If you love this deal then you aren’t really rooting for the Red Sox to win and be great again. They gave up far more than they got back. That’s called a BAD DEAL.”
Yea that career low OPS is a big sign of a turnaround. Instead they have 3 high ceiling prospects, a player on the major leagues, and a wild card who’s supposedly a different guy than start of his career.
You’re called a bad eye for baseball
BeforeMeCount – Look jackass. So many stupid comments I’m not sure where to begin.
GSL? DSL is the Dominican Summer League and the innings pitched is such a small sample it can’t be evaluated. You look so stupid insulting people on things you know nothing about. Next time, at least get the league name correct jackass!
Again with the lowest OPS of his career. You are too ignorant to discuss baseball. I already explained OPS+ so enough said. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink!! Learn the stats and grow up then come back and try to talk intelligently to the stats.
Next, do your homework junior. Clubs don’t have unlimited numbers of guys. Each farm team has a roster limit thus the organization has a finite number of players in the organization. They add and they drop to maintain the max or desired number. Wow I’m tired of teaching you about how baseball works.
I admitted to two terrible years? Such a moron. He had a 100 OPS+ in his worst full year which was better than Devers worst full year. That is his floor for full seasons. Most normal people look at 2020 as an aberration. Heck the Dodgers won the world series, if that doesn’t prove it something is wrong with you. Benny and JD both struggled in 2020. Benny got booted and JD was kept. The Red Sox traded away a Rookie of the Year with an OPS+ floor of 100 and upside of 123 for a below league average outfielder and four prospects, two of which are completely unproven, one of which is mediocre and 1 with upside. That makes no sense but neither does letting Mookie move to a different organization. Incredibly stupid moves. That’s what the Red Sox are all about now.
Also, if a guy has 3/8ths of a bad season help me understand how that is admitting he had two terrible years? New math? 3/8ths is just 3/8ths not 2.
Last point. Try to read with context. I mention that it’s not likely that Benny will go on a HOF track and you laugh like I said I believe he will. Reading comprehension is very important in responding to other commenters. FYI, I looked up every player in the deal on baseball reference to evaluate them and that’s how I know they played in the Dominican Summer League DSL not GSL My point was that a high school pitcher has records of each year he pitches in High School. These pitchers ONLY have less than a dozen starts in the DSL to evaluate them on so I chose to not draw conclusions from such a small sample.
Next time think before you write.
Gambre will be very good.
No one can evaluate this trade for quite some time to do so at this point is just being clueless.
Benny is what he is he is a solid player he is average defensively and a good contact hitter. He has no power but you can expect him to hit 10-15 homers a year and hit .285 or so. He is only going to get more expensive. Let’s put this way Verdugo is very similar to Benny but just a better in nearly every facet he has more power makes harder contact and is far superior defensively with similar contact ability. I like Benny and wish him good luck I think he is solid.
It’s impossible to evaluate this trade now since 4 of the guys in this trade are prospects. The Red Sox traded 1 player for 5 guys. I will concede that if we look at it from a simply this year situation then losing Benny probably hurt this team. The reason I say probably is because who would they not of signed if they still had Benny’s salary.
The bottom line it’s going to take years to evaluate this trade and it’s very likely this was win win for both teams. The Royals got a solid not spectacular player and the Red Sox got a lot of prospects and a guy that has tools that make him a 4 tool player unfortunately the fifth tool the hit tool is the questionable one. Franchy has huge upside potential but much mire likely to be bust due to his questionable hit tool but if he figures it out sky is the limit. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. We also have to remember Duran is coming too which I’m sure Bloom was also thinking about let’s evaluate in two more years and see where this trade is at.
This is the best overall review/post of this trade in this thread IMO. Great summary of the players involved. Very evenhanded. Love how some posters think they need to “convince” other posters of their viewpoint. Most of the time, folks are just trying to convince themselves of whatever they want the ultimate outcome to be.
I really don’t understand this deal from the Royals side. Not only did they have to give (3) players to Boston, they also gave up a well thought of prospect in Lee to the Mets, all to get Benintendi? While Benintendi is having a good year so far, it sure feels like an overpay by KC. Both the Mets and Red Sox have to feel good about their returns in this deal.
I do wonder why De La Rosa hasn’t pitched at all this season. I know he’s still young and they got rid of Low A ball, but you would think he could make their A ball team at age 18. He must be in extended spring training.
It’s tough for the Royals to bring in marketable major league players with a decent track record. They will gladly give up a bunch of fringe-ish minor Leaguers for one of those. Especially a starting outfielder making just six million dollars a year.
as a Royals fan I love this trade. Cordero sucks and Lee has too many strikeouts. You people in Boston and New York think the world revolves around you. You got took. Right now and 4 years down the road. BTW don’t be surprised when Benny resigns with KC. He likes playing for a winner.
The Red Sox definitely didn’t get “took” lol… but at the same time there’s no reason to think that the Royals and Red Sox could both be winners in this trade. Benny was great at first for the Sox but it was time for him to get a change of scenery. And I’m glad he looks to be back on track with KC… but the Red Sox wound up with a ML wild card in Cordero and 4 legitimate minor leaguers. A former 3rd rd pick P, a highly touted 19 year old OF with serious pop, and an 18ish year old pitcher who by all accounts had shown to be incredibly advanced for his age (16) in his first taste of professional action. Not to mention they also got a guy who’s posting a sub 2.00 ERA in AAA. Even if only 1 of those prospects winds up working out or they wind up dealing one or more to acquire a ML piece at some point. The deal is still a win-win for Boston and KC… as for the Mets, well see about Khalil, they like him a lot apparently so maybe he will turn out to be a legitimate leadoff type hitter. He’ll have to make more contact though, but from the Red Sox perspective. This trade is a “win” in terms of the value they got back for an OF who needed a change of scenery anyway.
Back on track?
He has a career low OPS with 1/3+ of the year gone. Hahahahaha. That’s on track?
Agreed, an OPS+ of 107 is barely above average… no it’s not the horror show of last year, but it’s on par w the mediocrity of the prior year and a half before that
107 for a weak-fielding LF doesn’t cut it.
Ma4170 – Maybe you need some context before you retract your comments. Benny’s 107 is now 115 and rising in KC. His horror show happened during a rare pandemic and lasted 14 games and 52 at bats!!
Perspective – lets compare Benny’s start to some notable Red Sox players
Bogaerts 18 games in 2013 resulted in an OPS+ of 87 (that’s 4 more games than Benny played in 2020 when his was 27 and made him tradable.
2014 – Bogey’s first full year his OPS+ was 84
2015 – 107
2016 – 111
2017 – 95
2018 to 2021 135, 140, 131 and 147 (star level)
Benny’s 118, 103, 123 and 100 compares favorably to Bogey’s 87, 84, 107,111. Did you feel the same way about Bogey as you do Benny? Bogey two years later jumped to a star level and that could happen with Benny too.
I hope that reference helps you put Benny in context. Benny was better than Bogey for his first four season then had a 14 game bad season and got traded for not being good enough. It makes no sense.
Lets now compare to Devers.
2017 58 games and an OPS+ of 112 barely above league average
2018 121 games and an OPS+ of 94 below league average!!
2019 an OPS+ of 133 way above league average comparable to Bogey
2020 an OPS+ of 110 barely above league average in 57 games
So in comparing Devers and Benny we see Benny has a higher floor and Devers has a higher ceiling. When Devers struggled he was not traded despite being a huge defensive liability and Benny other than 14 games in 2020 has never been below league average and was better than Bogey during his first four season and not far behind Devers for his first four years and Devers is a huge defensive liability.
There was no reason to trade Benny. $6.6M for a 111 OPS+ player is not too high and like Bogey there is no way to see if after a specific amount of time Benny wouldn’t jump to a new level like Bogey did in year 6.
Also, just as a reminder look at my response to Dorothy who trashed Benny’s defense. The data shows that what Dorothy said is completely NOT TRUE. Benny was a good defensive outfielder and he made a very significant, difficult catch in a high pressure situation in the run to a ring. He is a clutch player with playoff experience.
Benny is a tier 2 outfielder and most teams can’t afford 3 tier one outfielders like Betts so he fit perfectly in the big picture. He was an above league average modestly paid corner outfielder. Giving that up to stick your hand in a bag and pick out teenagers who might some day be good is a travesty. Doug Jones was right in what he said about the trade and it should burn the Red Sox fans that ownership is so inept., The Red Sox got took.
Once again silly to say the Red Sox got took. There is no way you can evaluate this trade for years. Like I said earlier in 2021 no question that losing Benny made the team weaker but to try and evaluate this trade and say the Red Sox got took is ridiculous.
Bruin1012 – I completely understand your argument but being took is a perspective based on a point in time. As of now, they got took. In 10 years will that still be the case? I agree we don’t know but now we can put some probabilities to the chances that the result will be the same.
What are the odds that Benny doesn’t finish his career with at least a 111 OPS+? I’d say highly unlikely unless some major injury hits and he comes back after the injury and takes his above 111 OPS+ down below 111. His career is just starting and he’s done well. Most players get better after 4 years of slightly above league average play so there is no reason to think Benny won’t.
So, to reverse the current status of the deal one of the four players other than Cordero would need to radically improve. What are the odds that 2 teenage pitchers will end up being quality starters in 4 or 5 years? Not great. Could they? Yep. Likely? Nope.
Time will tell so your point is understood. The likelihood that Benny will produce less going forward than 4 virtual unknowns and Cordero is very low. You have a proven quality player on the one side of the scale and 4 unknowns and Cordero on the other side. Right now, Benny has the teeter tauter on the ground and the other side is as high as possible. Maybe over time the non-Benny side will begin to level the comparison but how many years from now and how do you discount the fact that it is so many years down the road?
Yes, there is a very long shot chance this works out for Boston but it’s highly unlikely based on the stature of the players involved..
That’s all I meant by the Red Sox were took. As of now, that’s a true statement and is likely to remain a true statement but there is no certainty that it will.
Ok Einstein
Highway robbery by the Red Sox.,
Andrew Benintendi is one of the most over rated players in MLB.
AB is an average player not worth all these players
Beni is playing a lot better than Franchy, and it only cost the Royals Franchy, Kahlil Lee (which seems to have a ceiling not extremely different than AB), and a couple of unspectacular lottery tickets. I can’t complain as a Royals fan, but Boston faired decently in regards to what they got from the Mets.
To me he’s very similar to Alex Gordon. If he’s healthy he’s a solid above average player but not a star. I often think of Paul O’Neill. Will have his moments. Doesn’t hurt you on either side of the ball.
IMO, Benny is showing you he is who he was ’17-’19 when healthy. If he keeps it up he’ll have no problem getting a good contract at in ’23 when he’ll be all of 28
Assessing the trade now is kind of pointless. I believe the Red Sox are none the worse for letting Benintendi go. They also got value from him while he was there when it mattered in 2018. How these players they got back perform is a wait and see. They have played well in spite of Franchy Cordero’s struggles which allows them to take the pressure off and let him develop in a lower risk environment, the minor leagues. They have seen something in him and they are pretty good at that. We will see how it plays out. If he comes back up and is productive, that helps the team.
All of what you say in this paragraph is true, a relief after some of the high winds above. My concern with Franchy is that he has a very good line for his whole minor league career, and he seems to be replicating it right away in Worcester. In other words, he might be a true Quad-A player, one who can never bring his solid minor league game to the majors. That would be a shame, but I am for trying to get him past that. And a thought on Freddy Valdez–he sounds a lot like Danny Diaz, right down to signing for similar bonuses (Diaz $1.5 mil, Valdez $1.4). The prospect luster has come off Diaz. It may be the Sox are trying that phenotype again (this time w/o paying over a million) in the hopes of unleashing a future “Franimal.”
I’m willing to be patient because the team is doing well. With all his injuries I think Franchy needs some time to develop. Apparently he can hit minor league pitching in his sleep. The jury’s out, we’ll have to see.
Danny Diaz makes me think of Denny Dias which makes me think of playing “Song For My Father” at my jazz gig last night and introducing it as “a little Steely Dan”.
I have a short attention span.
Meanwhile, back at the Tiger ranch….BigAl Avila is think about getting out of bed…… and Little Chris has done an all-nighter, watching hockey reruns……
It’s true!
Hockey pucks do have more fun!
Get rid of players a year or two too soon than a year or two too late. I know this concept in years past has been foreign in Boston but this is how Chaim Bloom ran Tampa and kept them competitive. Boston dealt AB from a spot that had been a strength (wouldn’t say that’s the case now but corner outfielders aren’t too hard to get). You traded away one guy who pretty much already seen his upside which is an average MLB outfielder, you got a couple prospects whose upside is greater than that. Red Sox fans are just used to management buying players in free agency this is how you develop a farm system. Tampa has the best farm system in baseball year in and year out and that keeps them relevant. Imagine not having to trade home grown talent because you can pay them arbitration. That is a luxury Chaim Bloom did not have in Tampa.
No Red Sox fan should be defending Dombrowski, he went all in on 2018 and left us with a depleted farm system and financial instability. There is absolutely no excuse for the 2nd wealthiest team in baseball to essentially say we can’t afford one of the best players in baseball (Betts). Dombrowski created an unsustainable monster that burned bright and burned out quickly.
BS! Stop whining and crying and scapegoating Dombrowski. Dave Dombrowski did what ownership hired him to do: Build an immediate winnner at all costs and not hold out financially or with prospects etc…Red Sox have “blown out” and forced many top quality GMs to leave both voluntarily and involuntarily.
Theo Epstein, Ben Cherrington, Dave Dombrowski.
The only surprise is that Chaim Bloom took the job in Boston considering that Red Sox Ownership has made the Red Sox Front Office a “revolving door” with very high turnover.
Red Sox Ownership will abuse Chaim Bloom also like they have burned so many others in their Front Office.
Bloom will also move on to another team in 3-4 years….
Sam Kennedy and John Henry created the problems, not Dombrowski. Dombrowski did what he was hired to do and very successfully.
Well your right to an extent, ownership hired Dombrowski and they most definitely signed off on the Price/Sale contracts.
SportsFanooo – Finally a baseball guy who knows the game. I applaud your answer. Ownership is and will continue to be the problem. Bloom was Lee Harvey Oswald executing Mookie’s stay in Boston. There will be no loyalty especially if credit starts going to Bloom like it did Theo, Cherrington and DD. Ownership doesn’t like people stealing their spotlight.
This deal may or may not turn out great. But the strategy and mindset that created it will pay off for the Sox big time in the years ahead.
Bosox20135 hours ago
There is absolutely no excuse for the 2nd wealthiest team in baseball to essentially say we can’t afford one of the best players in baseball (Betts).
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It’s not a matter of affording Betts, as much as a matter of how to best spent $210M. Betts & Price have combined for 5.8 bWAR while Verdugo has a 3.2. WAR. The difference of 2.6 WAR is not worth the $46M that LAD pays those two.
JB – WAR is a contrived number that is based on historical results. You talk about it as if it’s a commodity. There is no logic in your argument.
Baseball players are paid then the WAR values come after the fact. Past WAR doesn’t translate into future WAR so there is no point talking salaries and using WAR to support the argument. The day a contract is signed the past WAR values can be evaluated and used to create the contract but there is so much more that goes into signing a player that you are selling the process short with your argument.
With perfect knowledge would come perfect contracts. Perfect knowledge doesn’t exist so perfect contracts don’t exist. Are some players over-paid? Yes Are some players under-paid? Yes. Is a Betts in the hand worth more than a Verdugo in the bush? YES. Price and Betts were elite players when they signed their contracts. Verdugo being less expensive doesn’t mean he’s more valuable because he costs less, it means the Red Sox have less talent for less money and got the fourth pick in the draft because of it.
They are off to a great start in 2021 not because Verdugo is cheaper than Mookie, they are off to a great start because the nucleus of the 2018 World Championship team is performing in a similar way to the way they performed in 2018. The complimentary pieces like Verdugo have played a small part but if the Red Sox lose JD, Bogey or Devers for any significant time the hope is over, end of story. The rest of the team lacks the necessary talent to win and it has been Bloom’s job to replace the lost talent and he’s failed miserably..
The Mookie deal will always be one of the worst deals in the history of baseball.
Richards, Whitlock, Renfroe, Sawamura, Ottavino so far have been good to very good additions.
Kike and Marwin have been the only additions that really haven’t been good at least offensively but they do bring quite a bit of defensive versatility I wouldn’t say good off season signings so far but not disasters either they do bring something to the table.
Oh and while it wasn’t this year but getting Pivetta looks pretty damn good as well so please enlighten me on how what Bloom has done is failing miserably.
Also no the Betts trade will not go down as one of the worst in the history. In fact, if you look at it from a purely business standpoint then the Red Sox lost one year of a superstar and added 5 years of a very solid above average player in Verdugo that isn’t even arb yet and another very good prospect in Downs. Let’s also look at it from a 2021 perspective let’s just say the Red Sox sign Mookie to 30 million dollar contract then do they sign Richards do they take on the salary for Ottavino do they sign Sawamura probably not. There is a cost for signing someone to big long term contract I’m not saying I wouldn’t of loved to see Mookie in a Sox uniform for his entire career I would have I’m just saying it isn’t as easy as Mookie is better Verdugo and Downs. I’m not going to argue that Mookie wanted out of Boston because we don’t know for sure but I do no for sure he said he was going to test free agency and that he was going to be extremely expensive that we knew for sure and armed with that knowledge he was traded for a very solid return hardly anywhere close to the worse trade in history. End of story.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t of loved to see Mookie in a Sox uniform for his entire career I would have I’m just saying it isn’t as easy as Mookie is better Verdugo
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Of course Betts is better. But Betts + $30M is not better than Verdugo + $0.5M, and I don’t think it is remotely close. In our case, it is either:
Betts + Price
or
Verdugo, Richards, Perez, Sawamure, Ottavino, Kike, Gonzalez, Andriese & Renfroe.
Bruin1012 – Impact players. That’s the phrase I use when talking about Bloom’s shortcomings. Richards, Whitlock, Renfroe, Sawamura and Ottavino are complimentary players but not impact players. Pivetta as I mentioned so far is his only impact player.
The goofy argument used by so many fans who don’t understand winning and should follow the Dodgers and Yankees who couldn’t win until LA got Mookie is that $27M for Mookie for 1 year isn’t as good as a cheap Verdugo for 5 years. If you don’t win a ring under either scenario. it doesn’t matter. It’s a tie.. Sale’s injury kept Boston from competing in 2020 if Mookie and Price stayed. The dynamics of the team changed without out Mookie and Price but a shortened season is impossible to estimate under alternative scenarios. I don’t believe with Mookie Boston wins another ring and clearly with Verdugo they were a disaster.
It’s 2021 now and Verdugo once again won’t bring them a ring but Mookie has brought 2 teams rings in the last 3 years. Without Mookie in Boston LAD is far more likely to win yet another ring with Mookie than Boston is with Verdugo, Downs and Wong for 5 years. Heck, for 20 years!! Two of the players in the deal might not make the majors and Verdugo is a Tier 2 player and may never climb to Tier 1 to join Mookie as one of the elite in baseball.
If you aren’t winning, cheap is just less expensive not better. Considering the massive amounts of money the Owners made with Mookie in Boston the cheap route wasn’t necessary and is the worst decision since Ruth.
Do a cost benefit analysis of paying Mookie $450M of 12 years. Lets say it forces the team to compete two out of 3 years going forward so 8 of the 12 years they exceed the luxury tax. Do they make lots more money when they win rings? Yes. Will they make lots less money not winning with Verdugo? Yes. Do the fans deserve ownership that spends some of it’s profits to put a winning team on the field? Yes. By spending under the cap in 2021 are they doing that? Nope Do you hire a guy like Bloom if you are planning on winning soon? Nope because his plan takes forever to realize the ultimate goal of a ring.
I have as many rings as the brass in Tampa Bay.
Were Red Sox fans better off with DD and a competitive mindset that said winning is the goal each year? Yes. Is the ‘lets be sustainably good and not win’ approach something that should excite fans? Nope. There may be some that think like Dodger and Yankee fans and can be satisfied with finishing in the playoffs every year and not winning but Boston fans over the last 20 years have experienced winning across sports and have come to expect competitiveness by all their franchises.
I expect the Red Sox to take actions that support competitiveness and I haven’t seen any since they fired DD. It’s a loser organization right now, with loser beliefs. Pound your chest about a better farm system (which it is not) and sit home and watch the world series being played in a different town. I want Duck Boat parades not mediocrity and I want it rIght now!!, Bloom, Cora and the ownership group are nothing but mediocre participants in the chase for rings.
Just out of curiosity, where do you think you went wrong with your ’70 wins is a fantasy’ prediction?
Thank you
I like what the Sox have gotten back for Benintendi. The players from the Mets look to have promise. The young arms from the Royals also look promising. The future grades on De La Rosa are very juicy with his early rookie ball success back in ’19. Cordero still has a great chance of making an impact too. I wonder if his COVID delayed spring really stifled his rhythm once he returned, or it could just be that he needs to get his plate discipline under control. Either way, I think the Sox can get a lot of value out of him now or later. Very pleased things appear good even though I will miss Benny.
White Sox traded for James Shields and gave up Fernando Tatis Jr, you never know with prospects