The Cardinals didn’t play on Saturday due to a rainout, and team president of baseball operations John Mozeliak admitted to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that the unscheduled off-day had the benefit of providing “a timeout or break because right now we’re not playing great baseball.” A 5-13 slide over their last 18 games has dropped St. Louis to an even 35-35 record for the season, and the Cards sit in fourth place in the NL Central (3.5 games out of first) and 4.5 game in the NL wild card race.
With a minus-39 run differential, an argument could be made that the Cardinals are fortunate to even be a .500 team. The Cards haven’t really excelled in many areas this season, as the lineup, rotation, and bullpen have all had their share of struggles. These issues and several injuries have all caught up to the team during this 18-game stretch, with Mozeliak noting that “it’s multi-dimensional, right? The days you hit, you don’t pitch. The days you pitch, you don’t hit. Then some flawed defense. Where we are — the health question isn’t going away any time soon, unfortunately.”
In response to these problems, the St. Louis front office has been exploring trade possibilities, with starting pitching being a specific priority. Goold reports that the Rangers and Twins have been among the teams the Cardinals have been in contact with, though at this point in the season, it’s probably safe to assume that most contenders and would-be contenders have checked in with the teams (like Texas and Minnesota) who already look like clear deadline sellers.
Jose Berrios and Kyle Gibson are the most intriguing rotation possibilities that could be available for the Twins and Rangers, while impending free agents like Jordan Lyles and J.A. Happ are more readily available but not necessarily representing big upgrades on what St. Louis already has on hand. Twins righty Michael Pineda is having a good season and is another impending free agent, though he was placed on the injured list this week due to elbow inflammation.
Whatever trade the Cardinals may or may not make, “it’s not all in or we’re going to break up the organization. That’s not the pressure I feel,” Mozeliak stated. With well over a month remaining until the July 30 trade deadline, Mozeliak said that it is still a “little premature” that the Cardinals complete a major trade any time soon, and that the team isn’t planning to “take a real chunk out of our farm system” in order to swing a deal.
“If, at some point, we look for something outside the organization, we certainly will, but we’re not at a point where we’re only going to define ourselves by 2021,” Mozeliak said. “We’re not feeling that pressure if we don’t win this year that we’re all in trouble. We must understand that we can all do things better. We also understand what we thought we’re going to have — because of injuries — hasn’t yet worked out.”
While no executive would publicly admit to a win-or-bust mentality, there is some natural pressure on the Cardinals this season. Yadier Molina and Adam Wainwright both returned to the team last winter on one-year free agent deals, and both longtime St. Louis cornerstones are still playing at a high level. Beyond that, Nolan Arenado can also opt out of his contract after the season, and as unlikely as it may be that the third baseman could walk away from six years and $179MM, Arenado is certainly eager to win now.
Speculatively, if the Cards can’t start winning over the next few weeks, there would also be a case for the team to look ahead to 2022. St. Louis will have a lot of payroll space to work with, as Molina, Wainwright, Matt Carpenter, Andrew Miller, Kwang Hyun Kim, and the remainder of Dexter Fowler’s contract are all off the books, and Carlos Martinez’s $17MM club option isn’t likely to be exercised. It’s also possible that the Cardinals could both sell and buy at the same time, perhaps taking on a higher-salaried player controlled beyond 2021 with an eye towards fitting that player more comfortably into their lightened payroll come next season.
Berrios would be a great fit but have a feeling Twins would want too much for him
Yeah, it’s gonna take a package of high end prospects to make that happen. Twins won’t just take somebody’s marginal surplus for Berrios.
they will be fine
Keep your prospects. We will trade Gibson to another team.
Mozeliak sounds too comfortable in his job. You went out and traded all kinds of depth for guys like Ozuna, Goldschmidt and Arenado. Now the team has injuries and no depth. Who’s fault is that???? And now the win now team you have built can’t win now. That’s a problem. And yeah there should be a sense of urgency. There really should otherwise what’s going on?
This is and never has been a win now team.
Then what the heck is it? It’s not a “going all in” team sure. But it’s definitely a win now team.
There is nothing about this team that remotely suggests it’s a win now team. They need way to many pieces to be a real contender. A win now team is a team that is close but the window is about to close and is willing to blow up the farm to get there before next year, when the window does close.
If your team isn’t in “win now” mode isn’t it pretty ridiculous to trade for a veteran contract like Arenado’s in that situation?
Ummmm no. I’ll let you in on a little secret. There are years past 2021. This team is not built to win now in 2021. But with money coming off for 2022 they have a chance to become really good. Arenado will most assuredly, by all accounts, not opt out this season. That makes a good foundation for 2022.
Great, so your foundation for the future is an extremely high priced aging vet who is exiting his prime. Precisely why I call it ridiculous. Arenado is a win now piece, not a future asset. There’s a reason he won’t opt out: that contract is gonna be an albatross.
Yes, every team acquires all of their star players the same year they win the championship. They never acquire one and build on that the next year. It’s never been done.
I can see Alacantra and Gallen from the Ozuna deal but are you saying they’d be better off with Weaver and Gomber instead of Arenado and Goldschmidt right now?
The Goldschmidt deal was bad. They would be better off with the players AND the money we are paying him. And the Arenado deal isn’t the heist people make it out to be. He’s good now but he’s signed for 6 more years after this one.
The main clog in the Goldy is deal just went back on the DL and the main guy in the Arenado deal Gomber just blew out his elbow.
Ok fine. But they make a ton of money. That money could be spent in other places. A 1b with a 700 OPS for 26 million a year isn’t good. And that ignores the talent traded away.
No he’s saying they’d be better off with Alcantara, and Gallen, erase the two sub par years of shoulder impinge Marcel Ozuna they didn’t do there homework on before hand, erase the Dexter Folwer contract which blocked many of the organizational talents you had that didn’t get playing time, erase the Arozarena trade cause you don’t need pitching depth for 2023, and don’t for the LOVE OF GOD sell Adolis Garcia to the Texas Rangers for 30 PIECES OF SLIVER. I’m tired of watching scotch drinking arrogant John Mozeliak SCREW up this baseball team
Joel learn the game. Put on your big boy pants. It’s a 162 game season. There are ups and downs. You hope to be healthy and in contention at the end of the year. It’s the same every year. People like you aren’t happy unless you run away with it. Again Joel learn the game.
one thing i will say about goldy he may not be lighting things up with his bat but his d at 1st makes up for his coldness. also i’m not happy about the cards play as of late but there is a lot of bb to be played and every team goes though a rough patch just like the cards.
Randy Arozarena 2.3 WAR, Adolis Garcia 2.3 WAR, Tyler O’Neil 2.2 WAR, Dylan Carlson 1.3 WAR, Justin Williams -0.4 WAR, easy to see how, Cardinals traded away two players worth 4.6 WAR from there outfield and the top two most productive members they kept have been worth 3.5 combined not factoring in Justin Williams negative value. So instead of having a outfield 4 worth 8.1 WAR they have a outfield 4 worth 3.7 WAR, 5.8 WAR if you count 5 and consider all of Tommy Edman 2.1 WAR in right field, but that just isn’t true, most of that he has accrued during his time at second. That’s a difference of 4.4 WAR in the outfield, the Cardinals dont have a single player worth 4.4 WAR currently and that’s a massive amount of production that John Mozeliak blindly traded away because he’s not a great head of baseball operations and Bill Dewitt is fine with that which is why baseball will never be a profitable business for Mr Dewitt
Those numbers would have not been the same had they stayed in St. Louis. Jeff Albert would have seen to that.
Jeff Albert is doing a great job, what are you talking about? Cardinals just rank in the bottom 5 offensively, these guys are working there tails off though #whaddayawant?
i’m gonna say this about the randy trade before we call it a bust. first let’s see how libitore progresses because he was a guy tb didn’t really want to trade and secondly let’s not forget that guys like randy, voit, garcia and ect. weren’t exactly lighting it up before they were traded. tbh mo has frustrated me at times and as cards fans we have been spoiled with a lot of recent success. let’s not forget as frustrating mo and dewitt can be they have kept the team winnable and watchable for the last 20 years. also when you win as much as the cards do you don’t get great picks in the draft it really starts to take a toll on you and it becomes hard to build a continuous winner. teams with the pedigree like the cards and will never be able to sell a full rebuild are going to have down years it’s just our down year’s are competitive bb with a shot of oct. tbh i’ll take that than 3~6 of top of the league and 10 years of unwatchable bb
It’s not a slump, it’s their regression to the mean
mo is not part of the cardinal way and whatever he does will fail
I’m just here to read the idiots cry to get rid of Mozeliak because he sometimes wears a bow tie and offends their masculinity.
How about because he’s not good at his job. Is that a good reason? His bowtie is lame but if the team is winning he can dress like a clown for all I care.
This has got to be the stupidest comment that I have read so far! I’m not a fan of his and I do believe that change is always good but to say he is not good at his job is just Dumb! I’m SURE you have the resume to jump in there and do a better job! Good Lord, get a brain!
i will say this about mo, i’m not his biggest fan and often i’m cussing the the tv, but one thing he had done is kept the cards in an oct. hunt year after year. i will take being a competitive team with a chance every year than the suck for 5~10 years and maybe be great for 2 or 3 years
I admire the way the Cards are relevant every single year. That is not easy to do. But St Louis is always a good ballclub.
good isn’t good enough
@ducky long time no chat but thumbs up on your perspective on my birds. we’re kinda in the same boat with our gm’s/pbo’s a lot of fans want there heads on pikes. we both know that both of our fo guys have done a good job (maybe not the best) both cash and mo are in a no win situation. you gotta be a winner and be able to sustain it for the long haul, which is easier said than done and there are going to be moves where you go “umm can i take that one back” but i’ll take a mediocre team that’s still in the running in sept. than a rebuilding team like the o’s. also btw i’m not writing of my birds just yet we’re hurt and underperforming but i fully believe this team will bounce back.
Hey, it’s my fav union carpenter.
Hope you’re well. Hope you’re busy too. I’m swamped with work stuff, man. Mon-Sat we are building multiple jobs/day.
I can’t wait til we start slowing down in September.
Anyway.
100%. I can’t imagine what it’s like to not be playing meaningful games in August & September.
Yuck.
Yeah, Cash & Mo are both good GM’s of consistently successful ballclubs & I agree that is not easy. &, yeah all GM’s make moves that look poor in hindsight.
I wouldn’t come close to writing the Cards off. At all.
Just like my Yanks – whom are scuffling themselves – St Louis is a zombie team: Hard To Kill.
Catch ya later. If I’m lucky.
@ducky i’m doing good not back to work yet but i’m hoping soon. as far as my birds i’m a little concerned especially with our pitching but there is plenty of time to right the ship. i’m just looking at this current stretch as the bb gods evening things out because we were playing great in may. tbh with i would be shocked if both nny and stl don’t make into oct or at least still be in until last week of sept.
Well, at least in the union you are still getting checks. If I don’t build, I ain’t gonna eat.
Yessir.
Yanks, Dodgers, Cardinals, red sox, Braves…man. All tough teams that are traditionally hard to kill.
Yanks got drubbed in Boston. Sucks. Happens though. & yes. I’d still have no problem with betting on the Yanks & Cards to be playing in October.
@ducky i wish i was getting checks the only reason to be in the union is for the benefits but things are starting to pick up on the commercial side from what i hear so hopefully i’ll be back to working soon. i’m gonna still keep positive about our teams and might be a blessing that we got hit with the injury bug now and not in aug or sep. when both of our respective teams start getting healthy again it’s going to be just like making a big trade just gotta weather the storm until then, and maybe if the cards are real lucky carlos will pull his head out of his a$$ and not meltdown when a runner gets on base.
Oh.
Man, I thought the union guys got unemployment when they were on the bench.
Had a couple hail storms up here so we’ve been building. Grateful & fortunate, @brodie-b.
I’ve a feeling that – like me – staying positive is hard wired into you. I can’t really be any other way. Ya know?
As the Navy guys say; hold fast.
@ducky i’ve been drawing unemployment but that’s more state side and what not but glad to hear your still working. me staying positive about anything is out of the norm for me lol, but both the birds and yanks have to many good players that it’s hard to be down on them. i really see both of our teams start getting healthy and there confidence back and go on a tear and a lot of this doom and gloom will be forgotten.
wish the usaf had a similar saying but ours are how stupid our pilots were and how they knew nothing about there bird
Got it.
Well, I’m a contractor. So busy is good. But I haven’t had a day off since May. Don’t see one on the horizon either.
But – again – that’s good. My partner & I have about 50 people that count on us as their primary or sole income. Gets…draining, bro.
Huh.
Now I’m optimistic to a fault. The bright side? Well, all it’s all bright for me. Which certainly can lead to stunned disappointment. Ya know. As in, “I can’t believe that little runt took Chapman yard!”.
I see that too, Brodie.
@ducky i feel ya i used to work for a mom and pop tv repair shop and i could see on the owners face when times got lean trying to figure out how to pay us and himself. as nicholson said in the departed Heavy lies the head that wears the crown. when it comes to bb you gotta try to be negative because bb is funny all it takes is having a good at bat, game or series and your back. heck look at the nats in 19 by july they were dead then got really hot and rode that all the way to a ws (thou i still believe hou would of won that game if they would of left grenkie in he was dealing)
side note our favorite saying on the flight line was “takes a college degree to break them and a hs diploma to fix them”
2020 took a lot out of me.
The Covid stuff caused incessant problems. Boom truck drivers in quarantine, my siding foreman stranded in the Ukraine, building material shortage (still going on), homeowners freaking out over my crews not wearing masks in 95° heat, skyping with building inspectors, transferring our entire sales to paperless…man, on & on.
We couldn’t even pull permits(!) for the first month & a half.
Then the riot stuff: my dumpsters getting torched, building materials stolen.
I would sell right now.
Companies like ours sell for 2-5 mil.
My partner’s situation is much different than mine. He is 18 years younger than I. A wife & 3 young kids. For me it’s just my son & I. He graduates high school next year then off to college.
“…you gotta try to be negative”.
Right?
How many times have we seen our squad get off to a bad start only to bring the tying or winning run to the plate at some point. & sometimes it works out.
On your side note: they say the same thing in the Corps. I was an officer. So…well…I get it. Even though it was directed at me.
My side note: I think I’m going back to Missouri this February. Snow goose, wild hogs, catfish.
Perhaps we could tip some suds.
@ducky let me know man i’m not a hunter but i’m always game for some man sodas and good convo. also 2020 sucked i often went rounds with the peps at the retirement center we were building saying i had to wear a mask all the time. usually i told the to f off i’m in an unoccupied room by meself who am i getting sick and half the stuff i’m working with is worse off than covid or the raw sewage in each units toilets because the subs would use them before we had water. to this day there is a nasty puke stain in room 311 because i couldn’t make it to the sink or shower in time. i’m just glad that busch is at 100% if i get back working soon can’t wait to go catch a game .
Honestly I prefer to hunt solo. I’m one of those type A personalities.
But I definitely like to drink with some good company.
I get it. 1 out of 4 people freaked out on me about my crews not wearing masks all the time. I can see on a window install where they are in your house.
But roofing & siding? Gimme a break. Stupid. The job is hard enough. Especially in the heat. I’ve done it, man.
So glad that’s over.
You see, you can tell people to screw off. I cannot. I need to absorb their idiocy calmly. Patiently explain super simple stuff. All while using “sir” & “ma’am”.
Not easy, bro. At all.
In different ways, guys like you & I build this country. We are important dudes. What the hell would everyone do with out hard headed fellas like us & your father & my grandfather.
Ya know?
Hope you get back to work soon, man.
@ducky trust me i know i can’t tell how much blood i swallowed when i did anesthesia repair and being talked down to by docs. at that time i was represented a company and had to take a lot of bs you have to even if there idiots that don’t know a thing. anyhow when you come to town to hunt hit me up and we can “complain” about our teams with a few man sodas
I will never work on a medical facility again, God willing. Did a window install for a clinic.
Lord.
Terrible customers.
I had to pay one of their employees to babysit the records due to HIPPA or whatever it is.
One of the shrinks was worried my guys were going to…man, I dunno…read the files on their lunch break or some effin nonsense. So stupid. Crazy effin shrink.
I will. In MN, WI, & the Dakotas in February there aren’t a whole lot of hunting opportunities. So I usually take a trip somewhere where it’s a little warmer & the hunting is more varied.
I would definitely hit you up if you wanted.
I think we’d probably get along.
i don’t blame for not working for hospitals there the worst. also i’m all for sitting in a nice quiet pub and talk bb with a dude that has a grasp on the game, even if your a fan of a team i dislike but respect. i think me you and me pops can have a good time tying one off and talking good bb even if we disagree on some points.
Bet.
& even though you are in the union, I still think you’re my people.
An old friend of mine is from & now lives (again) is St Louis. I’ve had nothing but respect for the Cards since the days of Ozzie Smith.
@duccky trust me i have my own problems with the union and there are a lot of great non union construction guys we need each other or else no one is getting a good wage. then again we can discuss them politics another time mostly because this isn’t the place to talk about such issues. i feel the same about nyy management cash, and both joe’s did a great job keeping nyy in check. nyy is a big market and they have a lot of ego’s on the team (and that has a lot more due the market and how fans view the team, if you don’t make that “sexy move” your trash) it’s not an easy job to get the star power the nyy has to “buy in” and win. which imo cash’s biggest mistake was letting joe g walk, imo he took a “rebuilding” nyy team in 17 and got them 1 game away from a ws and tbh imo that team wasn’t even ready to be a serious contender.
Randy Arozarena 2.3 WAR, Adolis Garcia 2.3 WAR, Tyler O’Neil 2.2 WAR, Dylan Carlson 1.3 WAR, Justin Williams -0.4 WAR, easy to see how, Cardinals traded away two players worth 4.6 WAR from there outfield and the top two most productive members they kept have been worth 3.5 combined not factoring in Justin Williams negative value. So instead of having a outfield 4 worth 8.1 WAR they have a outfield 4 worth 3.7 WAR, 5.8 WAR if you count 5 and consider all of Tommy Edman 2.1 WAR in right field, but that just isn’t true, most of that he has accrued during his time at second. That’s a difference of 4.4 WAR in the outfield, the Cardinals dont have a single player worth 4.4 WAR currently and that’s a massive amount of production that John Mozeliak blindly traded away because he’s not a great head of baseball operations and Bill Dewitt is fine with that which is why baseball will never be a profitable business for Mr Dewitt
#KenRosenthals BowtieforaCause
How would they have 8.1 WAR from 4 outfielders? Do they get to play a rover if they didn’t trade these guys away? To be honest with yourself, the best case scenario would be 6.8 WAR since they can only play 3 of these guys. And that is the whole point – there aren’t enough positions in the lineup for all of these guys, so they settled on 3. Let’s see where it ends up at the conclusion of the season before deciding if this decision was good or bad. I don’t believe Garcia is some world beater, just like I didn’t think Arozerena would sustain his high-level. from last year.
@cujo to piggyback on your point just like freese had an unbelievable oct like randy doesn’t mean that’s who he is. david turned out to be a solid player but he was nothing like he showed in oct 2011. randy might be the same he had a great oct but in the end just being a good player, also a lot of us forget before randy was traded he wasn’t lighting the world on fire and was like 6th on the depth chart.
It’s clear STL arguably needs at least 1 SP (2 if you’re talking about getting a JA Happ type), and at least 2 QUALITY relievers to remain competitive. In terms of position players, they’re fine, but the pitching is quite a mess right now.
The Yankees should be sellers this deadline. They have had too many injuries with some players not returning as hoped. They would be smart to retool and go for it next year. Kluber should be back and healthy by the deadline. He would be a relatively cheap pickup and if he continues to pitch like he was he could easily be a difference maker. Maybe take someone like Taillon too. Cards have a solid track record of turning around starters with potential. If the Cards pony up a decent prospect they can probably pry Britton away and any other reliever they like to fix their bullpen. Yanks could be a one stop shop for the Cards to fill their needs for a deep playoff run. Plus Cashman owes them a big one for Voit. Chasen Shreve was the return for him, I think. Ouch. To think the Cards could have all of that Goldy money and kept those prospects while getting similar production for rookie pay. Mo was probably still butt hurt from Stanton saying no to the Cards.
Glad Stanton said no. Fool
Gallegos came in the Voit trade and considering Voit’s injuries each team got something out of the deal. Speaking of Voit, it may be his production in the next 6 weeks that determine the strategy for the rest of the season. If the offense can get above average I expect them to trade for SP and IF depth, nothing earth shattering. If they are under .500 around the deadline I expect maybe Chapman, possibly Sanchez if he stays productive, too be moved.
There’s really no one to trade except DeJong , and to many SS are ready to hit the market this year.There screwed!
Fun fact. The best player on the team Tyler ONeill was sitting on the bench for all 3 playoff games last year. That’s the kind of world class talent evaluator Mozeliak is.
Cardinals need an impact bat in RF probably more than they need starting pitching. Cardinals Right Fielders have hit .204 with 2 HRs this season. O’Neill is solid in LF and Carlson in CF but RF is glaring offensive hole.
What would they be willing to give up for a Gibson/Gallo package deal?
If I’m Texas i ask for Gorman. Without the DH coming to the NL next year he has no path to the Majors unless the Cardinals consider moving him to the OF. Realistically probably quantity over quality. Daniels would probably take four lotto tickets for both and call it a win
A Gorman, Walker, and Hence package would be intriguing. As would a Liberatore, Walker, Torres package.
Neither will happen
Puig? Cespedes? Logan Morrison for RF? There could been worse choices for that hole.
why limit an impact bat to right field? they need someone that can hit, period. too much is made of corner impact bats. just give me a hitter for average and low strikeouts
O’Neill and Carlson can play all three OF spots so i guess they could look for an impact bat for any of the three spots. Beyond that the only other position in their lineup that is fluid is 2B and there are not many impact bats to be found there
Stand your ground. Way to early to do anything. Lot of ball to play in July.
That -32 run differential is a big red flag, as is their 13-24 record against teams at .500 or better.
The Cardinals don’t seem like they’re close to contenders this year and the cost in prospects to try and make up that level of ground for an outside chance in a tough division sounds foolish to me, especially considering the Cardinals don’t have a very strong MiLB system right now.
The Cardinals tread water every year and do nothing before the trade deadline. Then in the off-season they try to go all in with guys like arenado and goldschmidt without addressing any of their needs. One or two players cannot carry a team, just ask the Angels.
ask tiki barber
Even if they went out and got Scherzer and say an Anibal Sanchez (who apparently fell off the face of the earth in late April), they’d still need to make some significant additions to the bullpen. At least their screaming needs are confined to the pitching staff, but it will take a significant prospect capital to cover those.
They better be extending Yadi and Waino right Now! One more year! Spend wisely after they fire the hitting coach and hitting coach.
Mo just blowing smoke again. Blah blah blah
Johnny Mo hasn’t won without Tony R.
Tony knows you can not win without PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING. As the White Sox new manager one of the first moves was to bring in Lsnce Lynn an 4 other pitchers for support rolls.
Jonny Mo has tried to force Carlos Martinez for years as the ACE then the #2. A
BUST as the # 7 starter.
PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING just ask Tony R.
Johnny Mo hasn’t won without Tony R.
Tony knows you can not win without PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING. As the White Sox new manager one of the first moves was to bring in Lsnce Lynn an 4 other pitchers for support rolls.
Jonny Mo has tried to force Carlos Martinez for years as the ACE then the #2. A
BUST as the # 7
Mo has put together a pitching staff that has a,
1 potential # 1
1 # 4 and six # 6 starters.
Explain how we match up picture for pitcher against the Dodgers, San Diego, Giants,
Brewer’s, Washington, Atlanta, Philadelphia, or the top 15 teams in the AL?
Mo has put together a pitching staff that has a,
1 potential # 1
1 # 4 and six # 6 starters.
Explain how we match up pictures against the Dodgers, San Diego, Giants,
Brewer’s, Washington, Atlanta, Philadelphia, or the top 15 teams in the AL?
Sign of Arrogance , one who absolutely fails at making the right managerial decisions, and as his decisions repeatedly prove he stinks at his job , he refuses to fire Management because that’d be a sign he is repeating the same mistakes.
When Larussa left , his Matheny experiment was a bust by the 2nd season .
How many seasons did Matheny manage his defecto manifesto before Mo finally faced up to his own mistakes?
How many yrs to we have to watch this experiment stink before he blindly starts another nutty professor type experiment ?