2:40pm: President of baseball operations John Mozeliak tells reporters that Bader will be down for four to six weeks (Twitter link via ESPN’s Marly Rivera).
9:30am: Cardinals center fielder Harrison Bader will begin the season on the injured list due to a “flare up” of a forearm injury that required a platelet-rich plasma injection, manager Mike Shildt announced to reporters Wednesday (Twitter link via Jeff Jones of the Belleville News). He’ll be sidelined for a “solid four weeks at minimum,” according to Shildt.
The injury to Bader lends some clarity to the Cardinals’ outfield mix. Tyler O’Neill and Dylan Carlson are locks at this point thanks to huge spring showings. Carlson can play center field early if needed or slide over to right field, where he’d been initially projected with a healthy Bader in play.
Justin Williams, Lane Thomas and Austin Dean are likely vying for the remaining starting job, and it’s possible that all three could make the roster (two as reserves). Dean does have some experience at first base, giving him a bit more utility in a bench role. Williams, meanwhile, is still awaiting ruling on whether he has a minor league option remaining or not. If he does not, then he’d be all but assured an Opening Day roster spot, as he wouldn’t be able to be sent to the minors without first clearing waivers.
Bader has become a polarizing figure among Cardinals fans due to his low batting average, but he’s among the game’s best defensive center fielders and has some power at the dish. Over the past three seasons, he’s posted a combined .234/.326/.401 batting line with 28 homers, 41 doubles and seven triples through 958 plate appearances — good for a 97 wRC+ (about three percent worse than league-average offense when weighted for home park and league). Some of Bader’s OBP is propped up by frequently batting eighth in front of the pitcher, however, and his 29.4 percent strikeout rate in that stretch is problematic for obvious reasons. Still, a player with his defensive aptitude and a solid .167 ISO (slugging minus batting average) needn’t be an offensive force to provide value.
That said, the Cards will now get a longer look at several outfield candidates who have quite a bit of offensive upside themselves, so it’ll be interesting to see if any of them run with the opportunity and challenge the 26-year-old Bader for playing time upon his eventual return. That four-week timeline from Shildt would take Bader out through at least April 21, though the absence could very well be longer in the likely event that he needs a tune-up at the team’s alternate site/in Triple-A once his forearm discomfort has cleared up.
This news couldn’t be Bader.
Badder or Better? Or both?
Bader aid is better than water.
When he was younger, Harrison was known as Master Bader.
(sorry, I doubt i’m the first one to make this joke, but for his sake I hope he’s a switch hitter.)
*Darth Bader joke*
once the Apprentice, now the Master Bader
I would like to see if Williams or Thomas can grab ahold of a spot. I like Bader despite how frustrating he is, but he would be a great 4th outfielder if O’Neill, Carlson and Williams/Thomas can hit. The outfield defense would still be pretty good even without Bader starting.
Addition by subtraction
The CardinalWay would be to put Edman in RF and Carp at 2B with his .030 BA.
Oh crap they might do this.
Sure enough, he is hitting clean up today and playing 2B.
What’s that definition of insanity again??
Well they aren’t going to cut him and he needs innings at 2B if he’s going to be used off the bench. If he’s in the opening day lineup, that will be a huge problem.
If you’re implying the definition of insanity is repeating something and expecting a different result — that is not the definition of insanity.
Insanity is basically being seriously mentally ill to the point of lacking ability to control yourself. There is a lot nonsense out there that Einstein said this as if he were reading the definition from the dictionary. In reality it isn’t his quote, but it has been used by others to convey that some repetitive behaviour, like addiction, looks like insanity. The word definition is never used in the quote, if used correctly. It really is just a form of (purposeful) hyperbole. All in all, the quote is fair to use, but the word definition makes it incorrect and perpetuates inaccurate understanding of the word insanity.
Sorry to take this so seriously and to take the discussion away from baseball, but I am tired of reading this on the internet. I thought I would try to do something about it.
For the next three to five seasons, Edman will play his heart out, at 2nd, to achieve a level of play equal to about 80% of Wong’s defensive prowess. As thanks, the team will then trade him. That has become “the Cardinal Way!”
Until Carp gets his 2nd hit of the spring, Harry Doyle will still be in my head
“”One hit,that’s all (he) got, one go**amn hit?
For the next three to five seasons, Edman will play his heart out, at 2nd, to achieve a level of play equal to about 80% of Wong’s defensive prowess. As thanks, the team will then trade him. That has become “the Cardinal Way!”
Kolten Wong was not a good baseball player. It’s so annoying to see these posts. He was a bad hitter and worse baserunner. His defense was great at times and boneheaded at others. He was borderline better than Bader, and that’s still bad on a team that desperately needs offense. Edman is not the same fielder, but he’s already the same or better hitter. He’s no all star, but he’s serviceable and cheap. And if he’s traded in a few years, another similar player will come along. Wong will be fishing for a minor league invite after his two year contract runs out.
i some what disagree wong is a good player but not at the rate he was going to get this year with the cards. also if it means we lose wong to get nolan to fix the black hole at 3rd since rolen left i’m ok with that. edman has a better bat and is good enough at 2nd and we have gg at 3rd and 1st, and de jong is gg caliber at ss.
It’s absolutely absurd to say Kolten Wong isn’t a good baseball player. Not sure what your issue with Wong is, but I’m guessing you didn’t watch him play, or even look at his stats.
He wasn’t all that bad of a batter last season. With his speed, that .336 OBP is pretty good and he cal also hit some homers too.
The Bader bashers are probably the same people that wanted to run Ozzie and Yadi out of town their first few seasons when they didn’t hit.
Bader isn’t even that bad of a hitter either. A 97 wRC+ isn’t great by any means, but he’s put up a 100+ wRC+ in 2 seasons and OBP above .330 twice as well. Given his speed, that .330-.335 OBP plays up.
Yeah it comes down to batting average and him looking lost at the plate sometimes. But when he’s hot he’s a freaking star. The end result is a nice solid player but there are numerous fans who think the grass is greener when it isnt.
He strikes out so much and looks overmatched by off-speed pitches. I agree though that he’s more valuable than his reputation would suggest. But he’s had more opportunity than anyone in the Cards OF mix and hasn’t really established himself offensively. Carlson and O’Neill are both capable of playing centerfield (not as well of course) so I think the outfield as a whole may have more upside with Bader as a 4th outfielder. This is all dependent on Carlson/O’Neill/Thomas/Williams/someone putting it together at the plate with consistency.
Opportunity? Dude he was sent down to AAA in 2019. For no real reason at all.
Bader is not a 4th outfielder. He’s the kind of guy who is going to have an all star season or 2 and I doubt it will be with the Cardinals. He has gotten jerked around for playing time just like Kolten Wong did early on in his career. And just like Wong it’s so the team can play a lesser player in his place not a better one.
Lane Thomas has done nothing at all, ever, to suggest he is better than Bader. They are similar players Bader is just better at everything than he is.
Bader’s played 350 games in the bigs with over 1000 PAs. O’Neill has played 170 games with 450 PAs. Thomas/Williams/Carlson/etc. have barely played. I think we know a lot more of what Bader is (average hitter, great defender) than what any of other guys are yet.
I think Bader is solid but if the Cardinals have three above-average hitters in that group I think the outfield would be better with O’Neill or Carlson in center. They need to find out what they have in the other guys.
Average hitter and great defender is better than Williams or Thomas on their best day. And Carlson is not a big league center fielder you play him there the defense suffers. Defense matters dude.
You don’t know what Thomas or Williams can do because they haven’t had the chance to do anything yet. And defense does matter but the Cardinals need bats. Even if Bader is the only answer in center they need to find guys who can hit in the corners. I’m not unhappy that they’ll get a month to play some of the guys who haven’t had a chance to produce at the MLB level and see what they have.
Lane Thomas hit circles around Bader in 2019
Thomas hit .268 in the minors and then had a good 44 ABs in the majors. He hasn’t done anything since. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
Ozzie was heavily criticized by Padres Joan Kroc.
I don’t remember hearing criticism of Yadi, however.
@garry iirc it was 04 maybe 05 whichever year took over c full time the first few months yadi couldn’t hit hit the weight of a 5 yo, but tlr said in an after game interview when yadi went 0/4 and a .083 ba to that point. tlr went on to say idc if yadi gets another hit all season this man is my c end of discussion and least in stl all questions about his bat disappeared. at the same time it’s hard to compare cf to c, yes both important d positions but in the of you have to at least hit your weight if you wanna be an everyday guy. i’m bader fan and i wanna see him put it together (hopping his poor st is because of his injury) but bader needs to figure out righties or he is just going to be a platoon/4thof or d replacement
Bader is only polarizing to St Louis fans who refuse to acknowledge WAR or defensive value of any kind. Yes those fans exist no they don’t represent any kind of a majority.
Went from having too many outfielders for YEARS to now who is starting opening day? Modeling has handled the outfield situation about as poorly as possible and this here is no different.
Joel I disagree though, if you compared his career to other center fielders his age right now with similar skill sets he’s the worst. Two I’m thinking of are Manuel Margot and Byron Buxton. Jackie Bradley’s a little older but at least he’s comparable..
I don’t think you can argue Bader’s career .234 BA as a viable starter to be an every day center fielder. You sacrifice way too much to allow him to start and honestly I’d make this his last year if he doesn’t get 10 HR and hits .260. They’ve got a gold glover in left field now you could sacrifice Bader’s playing time for an average hitter/fielder out there until you can find the future center fielder.. He’s not that appealing.
Margot is not that good. Without looking pretty sure Bader is the better player. I got time I will check if needed. Buxton is hurt all the time. Talented guy can’t stay healthy.
Judging a guy on batting average alone is ridiculous. His defense and baserunning is so good he doesn’t have to hit that well to produce. And he has power the ONLY thing he isn’t is a good contact hitter. That’s it thats the only hole in his game.
ONeill and Bader are both really good players that Cardinal fans as a whole don’t appreciate. And neither do the people handing out playing time which I can’t understand.
Yeah I looked it up Margot with 50% more career playing time has a career WAR of 5 and Bader is at 6.5. Bader is clearly the better player.
Bader and ONeill both should be rock solid starters by now who with a little luck would be vying for all star appearances. But the team has held both of them back by playing Fowler and his contract as well as other stupid things like playing Jose Martinez in the outfield as well as Tommy Edman. It’s insane.
Bader has had a lot of opportunity. I agree with you to an extent because I think Bader is better than he’s given credit for, but I think the potential of an outfield with O’Neill or Carlson playing center and Bader coming off the bench is higher than an outfield with Bader starting. That’s dependent on someone like Thomas or Williams producing though, which they haven’t had the chance to do yet.
What are the thoughts on O’Neill this season? Breakout year or another dud?
Dude I am president of the ONeill fan club. There is not a more talented player on the team and that’s been the case since 2018. No doubt 100% he’s finally getting an opportunity to play this year and the world will see what he has. Lot of Cardinal fans don’t like ONeill they would rather have a team full of Tommy Edmans. But those fans are goofballs.
@joel my only knock on o’neill is the k’s which he seems to have put a lot of work on fixing (least in st). the thing is in stl as fans we don’t like seeing guys k out that’s why ty gets a bad rap, with bader we appreciate his d but he is the inverse of jose m. jose can hit but couldn’t field to save his life, bader can field but can’t hit a righty to save his life. tbh i think it’s fair criticism for both players and heard both players on the radio talk about there weakness and they need to improve on it. long and short we don’t dislike either player but also realize if they don’t improve there weakness time to move on we’re trying to win not rebuild. sometimes when your trying to build and win at the same time players prove it window isn’t a lot of time shorter than it needs to be.
I think O’Neill breaks out. It’s do or die though. If he doesn’t take a big step they need to move on and spend some of that Carp money on a left fielder next offseason.
@bbpun i really hope o’neill breaks out and makes me eat crow on his k rate, which so far he has and yes it’s st but so far his plate discipline has looked great and i’m looking for a crow to throw on the grill. now it’s up to o’neill if i grill this crow and wash it down with a tasteless ultra light beer lol.
I hope to see O’neil ripping covers off of baseballs this year. Could see him finally breaking out and hitting 25 home runs He’s had a different approach and its paying off.
@hippy i hope he keeps this approach, i’ve always liked o’neill (a lot of it was his attitude and hard work) but sometimes watching him bat was painful. i haven’t catched a lot of st games and the recast are cut up and ain’t worth watching, but the games i have caught i have liked o’neill’s approach.
2020 27th ranked outfield just lost their best outfielder (and forearm strains that require platelet injections tend to linger) for 4 weeks.
Dylan Carlson is their best outfielder and ONeill looks poised to leapfrog Bader by quite a bit if his change in approach this Spring carries over into the regular season. He finally looks like the hitter the Cardinals expected him to be.
ONeill will be better than Carlson in 2021 bet on it. Maybe Carlson is better long term but you don’t get credit for what you are maybe going to do in the future now.
27th ranked outfield? No man thats not true at all. The outfield was actually about average last year. And that was with Dex holding things back. The outfield is not a real problem, at least not the talent. The problem has been who gets the playing time.
How does the team start Fowler all 3 playoff games then dump him in the off-season while he’s still under contract? It makes no sense at all. And that’s what’s been going on with the St Louis outfield the last few years pure nonsense. Arozarena was shipped off without any real opportunity. Not good.
Nogowski just went solo. He’s raking this spring too.
Hopefully the ruling on of the Cardinals have a fourth option on Williams or not comes through today with all of the other rulings coming in. I would think he does considering he’s hardly played, but that will be a big factor in how they handle Baders absence and then his return later in the year.
Williams has a fourth option, per Derrick Goold. And it looks like they’re going to put Carlson in Center with O’Neill in right and they’re trying to get Nogowski into the left-field mix.
Sounds like a UCL to me…
The Cardinals have not had a major league outfield for a few years now. And that includes the Ozuna times (when he went full Canseco on us). Either they can’t hit or they can’t field. How many seasons are we going to keep hoping one of these guys break out? Bader is fun to watch, but realistically he’s one of the worst starting hitters in the league. He’s actually one of my favorite Cardinals, but there is room to upgrade. O’Neil is a crap shoot. Maybe he puts it together or maybe he has two week stretches of good and bad…similar to DeJong. Carlson looks the part, but he’s really young to be starting on a contender. And his arm and defense scream left field.
@mc are you sure your not bernie miklasz just under another handle lol, your takes on the cards reminds me of him in the paper and radio. loves the cards but also won’t drink the kool-aid or wear the glasses and give it to you straight
Ha. I’m not sure how to take that. No I’m not Bernie, and believe it or not I often disagree with him too. I’m a die hard Card fan. I’m just not a homer that falls in love with every player. I’m honest about the team. And I’m aware that my opinions are not always popular (even though they are pretty accurate).
take it as a compliment, i’ve been a big fan of bernie and i miss him on 101. what i loved most about bernie is that he is a die hard stl fan but refuses to put the rose colored glasses on. your comments are on the line like his honest and refreshing but not answers we want to hear.