During a Zoom call with reporters including Zack Meisel of the Athletic, Indians’ manager Terry Francona all but named Andrés Giménez the team’s everyday shortstop. Francona spoke glowingly of Giménez’s pace and understanding of the game from a defensive standpoint. He also noted that their confidence in Giménez was a primary driver behind Amed Rosario being asked to get reps in centerfield (and elsewhere).
Giménez became a fan favorite during his one season with the Mets as a 21-year-old. While he doesn’t project for much punch at the plate (nor patience), a triple slash line of .263/.333/.398 showed enough for the Indians to saddle him with the weighty responsibility of replacing franchise legend Francisco Lindor.
Offensively, he won’t come close to matching Lindor’s all-around play, but he does have the skill set to more-or-less replace Lindor’s contributions with the glove. None of ZiPS, Steamer, The Bat X or ATC think very highly of Giménez’s ability at the plate: The four projection systems forecast a range of .296 wOBA to .306 wOBA, despite a .321 wOBA in 2020. Even if he outperforms his forecasts, he’ll likely need to excel defensively to make a positive on-field impact in 2021.
Lindor tied for second among shortstops in 2020 with seven outs above average, but Giménez finished with four OAA himself with a six percent success rate added – the best such mark among shortstops. Lindor posted a three percent success rate added. For what it’s worth, Giménez managed saw just 182 innings in the field, which can both help and hurt his defensive metrics. Essentially, Giménez figures to be a strong performer with the glove, but just how strong isn’t exactly clear. Francona noted his sure-handedness with the glove, and it’s at least within the realm of possibility that he grows into one of the better gloveman at the position.
With Giménez likely to man short, Rosario will be pushed into a utility role. Rosario has long been viewed as having the tools to provide plus defense, but he’ll have to do so from various spots around the diamond. It will be a new challenge for the 25-year-old, who has played all but three career innings at shortstop. With César Hernández and José Ramírez at second and third, the infield is largely spoken for – though Rosario will have opportunities to spell both players, as well as Giménez at short. One would think he would start most games against southpaws somewhere on the infield.
Because of Rosario’s $2.4MM contract, there’s little doubt that Rosario will make the roster. His exact role, however, will be a situation worth watching through the season’s first couple of months. Giménez might have seen some time in the minors as a pre-arbitration player with three options remaining, but that now appears less likely.
“Reps” in CF? Don’t NFL my MLB.
Too late for that. We have Manfred as Commish who is trying to turn baseball into something it’s not. Like NFL, NBA with expanding playoffs and trying to artificially speed up the game.
Making the game more offensive-friendly directly slows down the game. Gotta love the mixed messaging from Manfred.
I hate what Manfred is doing. He is trying to speed the game up too much, and trying to become more and more like NBA and NFL. Keep baseball as baseball, and let the other sports do their thing while we do our own.
I actually think Manfred is doing what he has to do for baseball to survive. The younger generations – the ones who will decide what stays and what goes – have shorter attention spans (as a millennial I can attest this is true for most of my millennial friends, and as a teacher I can tell you that Gen Z is even more significant). If baseball continues to be a 3+ hour game with this many strikeouts, it will be difficult to maintain a competitive edge over other sports and entertainment – even during the summer, when baseball historically has its best ratings due to lack of competition. I am a traditionalist when it comes to baseball (outside of my love for the DH, admittedly), but I can see the writing on the wall: Change, or be left behind. Manfred is trying to save baseball from eventually being a note in American history.
Baseball has two time sucks. More pitchers per batter leading to more pitchers per game. Way too much advertising between half innings. The teams switch, the pitcher throws his warmups and off we go into the next half inning. What do you need for that? One commercial and we’re back. I love watching World Cup soccer more than anything else. The level of play is amazing and they just play. The floppers should get thrown out of the game and replaced. Third one doesn’t get replaced. But I digress. I say expand the strike zone a little bit. That will make the batter more apt to swing at pitches towards the center rather than passing them up. Also, maybe turn hitters back into hitting where it’s pitched rather than trying to crush the ball. And get rid of the damn fake ball. Holy cow. Stupid idea. I know they’re trying to do that but come on. Get it right.
@ say2948
What a load of poppycock. Baseball is appealing for the precisely being different than other sports. That’s it’s ticket to longevity, not scrambling to be something it’s not.
Next thing you;ll be saying camping in the great outdoors is too sedate. Long slow bike rides along the blue ridge parkway are too dull. Gatherings around a barbeque…boring!’
‘
What you miss is what, not being top dog in professional sports? Who the heck cares? Look around at the money in the game…what, it’s going away? Nonsense. The truth is, you’re not a major league city in America without baseball and everyone knows it.
As for the sport dying, look around the world. Because it is so unique and appealing to watch, play, and analyze, the sport is growing by leaps and bounds.
So please, would everybody just chill–including MLB ownership which has no clue themselves why their game is appealing–and leave this perfect sport and its players alone to evolve as it has always done.
Jsay – scoring is up and viewership is down. So explain again what Manfred is doing to help baseball survive?
Rhetorical question. Great pitching means ratings. People want to watch DeGrom, not Matz. Build up pitchers, keep them healthy and numbers/intrigue will rise. Big time aces is box office hitmakers. Always and forever. Manfred (and Selig) disagree.
@ Avory – Holy smokes, this is the most ridiculous take I’ve ever seen. Baseball is appealing because it’s different?! It’s GROWING by leaps and bounds?! Who cares that it’s not the biggest sport financially?!
What is a major league city without the MLB, exactly? Kansas City, Green Bay, Buffalo, New Orleans, San Francisco, etc are all non-sport cities or something? How about places like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, etc? Are they horrible sports cities because their teams are notoriously bad for extremely long stretches of time? The entire reason baseball isn’t the highest financial producing sport is because…. IT’S NOT THAT APPEALING. If baseball was super appealing, why are the minor leaguers paid so little? Surely, there’d be tons of people at games for such an appealing, unique sport!
The league is taking a complete nosedive because of parts of what jsay pointed out, and because Manfred is garbage. The umpires are probably the worst officials in professional sports at the highest level. The rule changes have not been well received.
When you sign a 6 year old up for baseball and you see them sitting in the outfield grass picking dandelions, how are you going to tell me that it’s the most interesting sport to play and analyze? Kids are the future of the sport and are absolutely NOT as drawn to it as other sports. Ask any 10 year old what sport is their favorite to play or watch. 9/10 will probably say football or basketball. If you’re saying worldwide like you tried to, they’ll say soccer (football).
I’d absolutely love to see your proof that the sport is growing and is continues to grab more and more fans. I’ve not heard anyone say how exciting baseball is, probably in about the last 10 years.
WereAllJustGuests – I think the steroid era of baseball would highly disagree.
Want to get fans involved? Have pitchers throw strikes and have hitters put the ball in play. Get rid of the launch angle, all ot nothing approach. Fans want to see guys making plays. Not a homer or a k
Well said, as always.
@ Birch
Well, now isn’t that the most bizarre post I’ve seen in awhile.
Why the heck are you hanging around MLBTR on a date night if you loathe baseball so much?
Man this is hilarious.
Excellent rebuttal. I’m a fan of baseball, but I also realize it’s not an exciting sport for everyone. It’s called being realistic.
Why does everyone ignore the slowest paced game of all sports (besides maybe golf) is the most popular in the country. The NFL is mostly standing around, and commercials. There’s literally 15 minutes of action in the entire game.
Nobody scores in soccer and that’s probably #2.
What is this silly pace of play nonsense based on?
Exactly. And in an NFL season, what, maybe 60 hours that you team plays in a given year? And yet we flap our gums about football endlessly? Mostly about quarterbacks? BORING.
Baseball is endlessly fascinating to watch, play, and analyze. That not as many kids participate because the skills are difficult to develop does not mean the game isn’t interesting. I enjoy movies and can’t act a lick! And nothing stops me from enjoying the skill involved.
Baseball is only dull to dull minds. And yes, I like the other sports too, but what other sport could have its very best player–MIke Trout–not make it to postseason? Because the game is complex and a challenge to succeed! I am disinterested in making the sport appeal to the lowest common denominator. That’s for other sports to do.
You don’t like it? Just move on. No hard feelings.
This post is a time suck. Long in the tooth.
Avory you ignorant slutte.
Birch you ignorant stutte.
One man’s Avory is another man’s Birch.
Nicely said.
This doesn’t really make any sense, since Manfred isn’t making the game any shorter.
Who cares bud!
It’s spring training, getting reps is literally what he’s doing. Since when does football have a monopoly on the word “reps”?
Lol “your MLB” yet you have never heard the word “reps” in reference to baseball. The word has nothing to do with football alone. Repetition means to repeat an action which is literally all you do when practicing (aka spring training, summer camp, preseason, etc.) no matter what sport is being played. I don’t know why I’m even taking time to explain this but it is such a weird thing to say and complain about when this site is super amazing and free. If you step on the diamond you might actually hear the word while getting some reps in lol
yeah, dont get it. i use that phrase a lot and am much more a baseball person then a football person
Rosario makes a good sub as he is at bat an average hitter so far. Gimenez can really pick it and could well improve offensively at least some. Hopefully, the Cleveland baseball team gets a new name and does ok by this trade.
Like the Cleveland Comanches
Cleveland BullDogs to go along with the Dawg Pound in the NFL.
A new name. How about the firewaters. Those from Cleveland will understand.
Yes, the Cleveland Lake of Fire!
Where do bad folks go when they die?
BTW, I think Gimenez will be a fine SS.
It was a river that caught fire, not a lake.
Hey! My brother once bought a house from a guy in Cleveland named Firewater!
How about the Cleveland Tigers? Since Detroit is changing its name to…
I think Gimenez was a good pick up for Cleveland. Obviously not as good as Lindor but i was disappointed as a mets fan to see him get traded. Hopefully rosario improves in the new situation but he was supposed to be the next Jose Reyes for the Mets but could never hit.
I think Rosie’s fielding has been the bigger concern… I think fans always had overly high expectations for his bat but he was supposed to be a gold glove SS. If he was, a slightly above average bat would make him very valuable. Alas, his defense at SS is atrocious.
Always thought Gimenez had decent patience at the plate, does he not? He has always maintained solid walk numbers, especially before he was rushed, and even put up a 46-22 B/KK line in rookie ball in 2016. A lot of variables with him with the bat after a worse-than-expected 2019—after a change to add loft to his swing—and a better-than-expected 2020.
Rosario in left and Rosario in center will not only improve the offense but also leave play by play announcers tongue-tied.
They just need one more Rosario in right and it’ll simplify everything.
Cleveland is in danger of getting stuck in mediocrity. They have excellent pitching, but they have holes, or a lack of star power, virtually everywhere outside of 3B.
The central may be weak, but if they really want to return to the World Series, a rebuild is probably necessary.
I think they need to wait 2-3 years for a WS push. To much talent and team control to rebuild. Once prospects come up like Jones they could be better and Gimenez will get better
Jones, Valera, Naylor #2 will all be up in a year or two.
All of which are 50 fv prospects (Fangraphs).
They might be solid players, but none of them likely push them over the top.
Yep. Until they deal a pitcher for some hitting they are trending in the wrong direction. They are fortunate to play in the Central.
@ Stevil
Utter nonsense. Fans toss around the rebuild card like success automatically follows one. Look around and tell me that really makes sense. You NEVER rebuild with a pitching staff like this or until you absolutely have to. It’s ridiculous to even consider rebuilding when you are competitive and you already have one of the best farm systems in the game.
They don’t need a rebuild since their talent is mostly young and cost-controlled. Look at the ages of their starting pitchers.
Francona straight out said Rosario will be getting reps in CF only.
Just because the Cleveland Baseball Club chose to delay phasing out “Indians” until after 2021, doesn’t mean MLBTR has to continue using it.
They aren’t going to virtue signal just to appease a few morons who pretend to be offended by a name for a baseball team
“Virtue signal”. Is that like “cancel culture”? What happens, do a bunch of Republican morons (sadly, most of them, except for me, an actual real Republican) get together and come up with new buzzwords to complain like little weenies about people trying to do things right for once? Chew on it.
Just because you are offended by something doesn’t mean everyone has to be either. Get over yourself.
I mean it is the name they are using now. Id argue “Washington Football Team” is silly and just “Washington” would be better used, but the former is the real name.
@antone: grow a pair.
I thought CLE was going to trade Rosario to CIN. Guess they will hold onto him for now.
We’ll find out in the next two weeks.. it may still happen..
For a team with a right budget they took on too much money on a utility an and backup catcher. Both should’ve been dealt in the off-season salary saving moves.
Tight budget…
Perez had no value but he’s lost 25 pounds and might have another solid year. He’s an elite defender but kind of redundant with Hedges. They seemed to be trying to trade Rosario but it might make sense to hang on to him with their outfield situation.
Perez is invaluable to that team. He’s a major reason the pitchers do as well as they do, especially the young ones. He understands the Indians pitching theories and how they want him to bring each pitcher along.
It’s a small market team with a payroll to match. They depend on cheap young pitching to carry them. You don’t replace Perez to bring in a so-so player that hits a little better. I’d guess that everyone in the organization understands Perez importance.
Not talking about replacing Perez, Hedges makes way too much $ as a backup catcher on a penny-pinching organization…ditto for Rosario as a utility man.
If it’s true that Perez’s defense is “invaluable,” then having a catcher who doesn’t cost you one bit of Perez’s defense when Roberto’s getting a rest…well, that’s worth the few extra shekels he costs. Keeping Hedges was one of the best indicators that the Tribe is not the least bit interested in stepping back from contention. Glad they tendered him and Wittgren; it told you that they were going to step up for guys like Eddie Rosario and Cesar Hernandez.
I have to believe $2.4 million is a bit expensive for a utility player for the Indians so i wonder if they will ultimately trade Rosario.
@hockeyjohn- I like this move by the Indians. Gimenez definitely deserves to start at shortstop. Where are you guys going to play Rosario? I heard he can play centerfield or play 2nd. No reason why Cleveland can’t get one of those Wild Cards in the AL. The White Sox probably will win the AL Central, but that’s not a certain thing though. Not that high on the Twins like a lot of other people. Wish you the best, and a healthy season in 2021 and beyond. Take care, and be well!
Amed Rosario, as far as I know, has never played a game in CF as a professional. People want to try him in CF; it is absolutely not a given.
SS is a very difficult position to play because of the mental aspect,. Moreso then the physical. Range and arm strength are overacted.
One an opposing teams runner is on base, the SS has to prepare himself not only to move multiple places when the when a ball is hit (including foul) but needs to be aware if the game situation (the score, the inning, how is the pitcher holding up, who’s in the bullpen), where his teammates are positioned and what they will do depending on where the ball is hit, the arm strength of each teammate if he gets the ball hit to him, the speed or the batter and the runner(s) on base. The game moves very fast on the field, the SS has to be totally prepared – be he become a cut-off man, needs to cover a base, or back up a base.
This is why Jeter was such a great player and impacted games so – he always knew the situation, was in the proper place, and made his teammates look good as they could depend on him.
Rosario’s had the physical ability to play SS. But he didn’t have the mental discipline to concentrate on each pitch, and too often was caught flatfooted because he wasn’t sufficiently prepared when a ball was hit.
I thought in late 2018 that the Mets should have moved Rosario to CF where he only had to run down batted balls, and if necessary hit a cut-off man. Not only would his D be better, but it would free him to concentrate on hitting. When the trade was made I figured the Indians would give him a shot in CF – whether or not Giménez won the SS position. So it wasn’t surprising when the Indians didn’t go hard after a CF or other OF’s, as Mercado seems to be more relaxed and play better when he’s at a corner OF position.
This story was out 2 days ago.
Amed Rosario to CIN.
“None of ZiPS, Steamer, The Bat X or ATC think very highly of Giménez’s ability at the plate:….”
Since they’re being quoted as authorities, how about an in depth analysis of their overall record (as opposed to anecdotal examples) along with PECOTA and other forecasters? Let’s hear less about what they predict, and more about what they predicted and what happened.
Over the years (and sometimes decades) I’ve found those people to be so wrong the overwhelming majority of the time that I can’t believe anyone puts stock in their predictions. I have to believe that the only people that buy their products are those in the business that like to kick around what they publish, and newbies that don’t understand that their records on teams and individual players are horrific.
I know what you’re saying but I know as an actuary I took a look back at the accuracy of my projections. I would think they would as well. Some of the predictive analytics methods are not too dissimilar from the techniques that actuaries employ in their predictions.
I will say that the “feedback loop” is much more immediate in baseball than insurance, that’s for sure.
Projection systems are trash at projecting extremely young players with upside and no Major League track record.
They should flip Rosario while they can still get something for Him
The kid is super-talented. He’s going to have a big year, I think
My prediction for Gimenez
.258 avg
.310 obp
12 hr
Will get sent down at some point.
Doubt it. Realistically, he’s going to be right around 100 wRC+ while playing Gold Glove level defense. If he’s healthy, he’s playing the whole year.