TODAY: The Red Sox officially announced the two-year contract. Hernandez has a $6MM salary in 2021 and an $8MM salary in 2022, tweets MLB Network’s Jon Heyman, although the contract carries some heavy deferrals despite its affordable nature. Heyman indicates that $1.5MM of that 2021 salary will be paid in $250K installments from 2027-32, while $1MM of the 2022 salary will be paid in $250K installments from 2033-36.
JANUARY 22, 9:43pm: The contract includes deferrals, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets.
7:24pm: It’s a two-year, $14MM pact for Hernandez, Feinsand reports. As Chris Cotillo of MassLive.com points out, this is the biggest free-agent deal chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom has given out since he took over Boston’s front office last offseason.
7:00pm: Boston has agreed to a multiyear deal with Hernandez, per Mark Feinsand of MLB.com. Hernandez is a Wasserman client.
3:5opm: The Red Sox and free-agent utilityman Enrique Hernandez have made progress toward a contract and could have an agreement by the end of the weekend, according to Jon Morosi of MLB.com.
A Boston-Hernandez agreement wouldn’t come as any surprise, as the two sides have been linked in rumors for at least the past few weeks. Plus, as Morosi notes, Red Sox manager Alex Cora was Team Puerto Rico’s GM in the 2017 World Baseball Classic when Hernandez was part of the club.
The 29-year-old Hernandez was a sixth-round pick of the Astros in 2009, but he has since been part of trades that have sent him to the Marlins and Dodgers. He found a home in Los Angeles from 2014-20, where he proved to be a useful cog as someone capable of playing all over the diamond (primarily second baseman and the outfield). He also recorded roughly league-average offensive production as a member of the Dodgers, with whom he batted .240/.312/.425 (98 wRC+) with 68 home runs 1,874 plate appearances. However, Hernandez’s numbers tailed off from 2019-20, so he shouldn’t come at an especially high price this offseason.
If he does join the Red Sox, Hernandez would be an obvious candidate to get significant reps at second base, where the club finished 25th in fWAR (minus-0.2) last season. Michael Chavis and Christian Arroyo are the only healthy second basemen on Boston’s 40-man roster at the moment. Of course, they also some have questions with Jackie Bradley Jr. a free agent and Andrew Benintendi a trade candidate, so Hernandez could also be a factor in the grass.
This is what we have all been waiting for with bated breath.
I’m a diehard Dodger fan and Hernandez has been one of my favorite players the last few years. Clutch player and great clubhouse guy. You guys are lucky to have him!
I agree.
I love him too.
Wish him nothing but success against all teams except for us.
Such a character.
Probably don’t have to worry about the Red Sox facing the Dodgers in the postseason for the next two years.
I’m sad. I love the guy. He doesn’t hit for average but he’s come up large at the right times for LA. Good luck Kike to you and your family.
$7M per for a utilityman? In this free agent market? Coming off two consecutive seasons of big declines in productivity? That money should have been used more wisely, like on a top notch reliever.
He was worth 3.3 war in 19 and 1.0 war in2020- on pace for 2.7. These are his two more valuable seasons to date
The idea hes declined in value is a farce
Thank Profar for the $7-mil.
He’s a plus defensively at most positions and comes up with the clutch hit as much as any other Dodger He wants to start but his BA hasn’t allowed that with the Dodgers..
It’s a good thing he’s a good clubhouse guy because that’s where he’ll be sitting with a .240 lifetime average. Between him and way over spending for Renfroes .229 lifetime for 3MM – I can tell you we’d have gotten better milage spending that 10MM on Dallas. I thought this dude was supposed to be smart.. So far two C grade signings while managing to send away one of the few hitting prospects in your farm (even if he is “old” – which he’s not.
What do you mean on Dallas?
The next Brock Holt???
Don’t wind me up. Please don’t…
*tosses looie’s key into the middle of the room*
C’mon one of ya. Give him a good wind or two. Just don’t lose it, we want to use it again.
We want Brock, we want Brock…
Won’t they be starting him at 2nd. Great opportunity for him.
This may be a planned flip. Bloom wants to build a contender through a strong farm system. With his versatility and playoff experience, Kike should be able to be flipped for a good prospect at some point. It may be a bit expensive, but the Red Sox can afford it. Depending on how much money is deferred and how it is spread out, the money may not be a big deal.
I don’t remember anyone acquiring a regular to flip him. Your trade deadline deals typically involve SP, RPs, and stars. Not 2Bs.
If they’re signing this guy to be a regular starting 2nd baseman, things are really worse than I thought in Boston. This is a utility player, not a starter, on any kind of decent team
Mitch Moreland and Kevin Pillar don’t ring a bell, all the way back in 2020? Red Sox had no chance of contending last year, they were purely acquire-now-flip-months-later signings.
He was only a utility player because the dodgers had so much depth. i’m not positive on the metrics but i bet he’d be above average defensively at 2b, SS and any OF position
He’s probably a better defender at every position than you currently have have. He’s only 29 so you want some 26 year old prospect for him?
A good prospect??? That’s funny.
Where’s the pitching?
Just curious – how many of you care who is the first person to report these deals?
Just curious – how many of you care who is the first person to report these deals?
Just curious – how many of you care who is the first person to report these deals?
This would be absolutely a stupid signing. They don’t need him.
Butch knows…..nothing.
He is actually not very good. Seen enough dodgers games to know, while most of his value is held in his glove the bat offers little to be desired. The real question is the amount and length of contract which will truly determine if this is a bad contract
Idc for stats when it come to Hernandez. He is good for clubhouse, clutch, and can play many positions. Good fit for him
@Tatsumai
You mean the bat leaves A LOT to be desired? That’s what you meant right?
Luc 2, Some people care too much about offensive numbers. The comment above yours about “most of his value is held in his glove” is insulting to me as a baseball fan. Defense matters, as does versatility. With a guy like Hernandez, it’s not about raw numbers. It’s about his ability to step in and give someone else a breather while also not hurting the team. That kind of value is hard to punch in on a calculator, as is the clubhouse/good teammate stuff. I realize you know this. I just need to vent. As a Dodger fan, I enjoyed watching Enrique and will miss him. Yes, the numbers can be replaced internally and even improved upon. But the other stuff matters as well. Since the Dodgers organization knows this, I’m confident the team will continue to improve as they are still young.
Another pet peeve: “Fans” who don’t like certain players on the team they root for. In one sense, I get it as I haven’t been fully enamored with every Dodger player in my 50-plus years following the team. But disliking guys and saying they suck? Or boo a struggling player? That’s kiddie stuff. With this recent run of Dodger teams, I can honestly say I’ve liked every guy who has put on that uniform. And if a guy is struggling, it makes me root for that player even harder. Fans can do what they want. I just wish people would understand that a guy can be a significant contributor without being a star.
I agree with 90% of what you have said. However, there have definitely been players I have disliked and who I was unhappy the Red Sox acquired. The name that comes to mind is Mike Torres, who signed with the Res Sox in 1978. He never struck me as being close to a good teammate.
He’ll be missed for sure. Especially watching him day in, day out. He subs in without the club missing a beat.
I’m with Cey Hey. The value of the glove-first guys has seemingly gone by the wayside, and not to baseball’s benefit. I think utility guys like this are invaluable, especially for teams like…. the Yankees. These guys can step in anywhere at anytime, defend well, and has been clutch in big moments.
@Cey Hey. Totally agree, and I hope Hernandez doesn’t regret signing to play in a city where the fans and the media will be all over him from day one. In fact from reading here it looks like they already hate the idea of him. Too bad. The vast majority of LA fans loved the player, and understood his value to the club, and will miss him.
Yeah autocorrect is a problem. To me this was a massive overpay for a guy that’s a jack of all trades but a master of none.
I agree. So happy he’s not a Dodger anymore. Addition by subtraction (more on Roberts insisting on deploying him over better players than it is on Hernandez).
I have been a Dodgers fan since 1968. Roberts is the best manager I’ve seen during that time and it’s not even close. Real person and leader, no phony schtick. He’s also more organized and runs a tighter ship than you-know-who. Had Kirk Gibson not come in a put a halt to the country club nonsense, that ’88 title never would have happened.
BlueSkies-La, Roberts used him in a way that maximized his value. Ultimately, he was better suited for the utility role than the everyday 2B job. It will be interesting to see if McKinstry perhaps becomes a lefty-swinging version. Not as good with the glove, but not a liability and a better hitter. Roberts has mentioned liking him quite a bit.
Here, here Cey. I have been following “the bums” since 1953 and there were only a few players of whom I was not a fan.
Bad defense can cancel out good pitching. With more pitchers and shorter benches, you need versatile guys who can adequately move around the diamond. Baseball is the only sport I now follow. When I look at different teams and try to guess how they’ll finish, the first things I check are up-the-middle defense and starting pitching depth. Then I look at the offense and overall organizational depth. With all the Yankees’ injuries in recent years, you surely know how important it is to be able to fill holes internally. A 9-11 or 8-12 stretch is nothing to write home about, but it beats the heck out of a 3-17 stretch where your pitching staff gets burnt out because you didn’t sign those Chacins and Wojciechowskis to minor league deals in January. Damage control is easier when you plan before the inevitable damage happens.
@clipper –
As teams like…the Yankees decide it’s more fiscally prudent to run guys like Tyler Wade out there (lesser talent but also lesser cost) the overall quality of rosters – & by extension baseball – suffers.
@Cey Hey. Roberts used him as a super-utility player, and that’s who he is. The value of that kind of player is way underrated by many fans seemingly because there isn’t a stat for it. You’re right that McKinstry made Hernandez expendable, and I didn’t expect him back, but McKinstry isn’t as versatile and it remains to be seen whether his bat will really be any better.
@Cey Hey booing players is part of the game get over it they’ve been doing it forever. Also $7 million a year is quite a bit for a glove that’s gonna spell starters when they need a break leading me to believe that Boston is gonna rely on him for more than that. If I were a Red Sox fan I’d be disgusted that my RICH team is mailing it in. The Red Sox should be spending like a big market team because they are a big market team. How come no one is complaining that Boston is putting a crap team out there yet will make more money than most teams in baseball?
This is bananas
I hated Torres as a kid growing up and I was a Red Sox fan. Still, I laugh remembering how when a beach ball would end up in the bullpen instead of tossing it back to the crowd he would get the bullpen rake and pop it lol.
@Tatoommask
The Dodgers are acting broke..
I remember all those nights cheering for that class act Carl Everett. If there was ever a Red Sox player we could all throw our arms around as the embodiment of what we all hope our players could be, that was the guy. I have despised some players, been indifferent to some, and loved many over the decades. Most of the time they start with good will, and earn the boo’s, or cheers..
BlueSky – I am a 50 year Red Sox fan, and still do not get why so many Red Sox fans hate on their own players and complain so much……
true but I would like to see what he can do if he played every day. if he could hit .250/.340/.450 and continue to play plus defense anywhere it may be worth it.
Do you remember BH “The Bird” Kim? It’s one thing to pitch like garbage, but quite another to also flip off the home crowd on Opening Day.
@Yaz1971. You got me. I’ve had this conversation with Boston fans before and been assured that it’s just a MLBTR thing but I look at all the hateful comments here and wonder. I hope Hernandez knows what he’s getting himself in for in Boston. He would never have to buy his own beer here in LA but Red Sox fans are ragging on him before he even puts on the uniform. It’s painful to read.
They aren’t real fans. The fake fans are the ones that hated Pedro for joining the Mets. The real fans are the ones that wouldn’t let Pedro pitch on his first return to Fenway, because they spent 15 minutes giving him a standing ovation.
Even your guy, Dave Roberts remarked that he had 86 PAs with the RS, no ABs in the playoffs, and ten years later, he was still getting E-mails thanking him for one SB.
@JoeBrady. If only we could separate the real fans from the fake ones. No fan base is all one thing but I’m sure we know that the Boston fans and sports media can be brutal like no other. Quite a notable number of players who came here with reputations of being total poison in Boston seemed magically transformed with the change in uniform. It’s a thing, for sure.
The fan hatred of the owners for the Mookie and Price deal makes perfect sense. Hating on the players should NEVER happen.
If you consider pointing out how bad Devers is on defense and that he should move to a new position that’s not hating on a player, that’s fact and some Red Sox fans who love Devers don’t want to hear about him being the worst defensive 3B in baseball since he was promoted to the majors 4 seasons ago. Also, pointing out that JBJ is a spectacular defensive CF that can’t hit isn’t hating on JBJ. Again, it’s fact. JBJ fans don’t want to hear it but it’s true.
Ownership originally seemed to understand that the only way to compete against the Yankees was to spend like the Yankees and did so for nearly 2 decades. The new philosophy they have adopted is better suited for TB or KC. They need to sell the franchise or wake up and realize they are embarrassing the fans of the team and the city with their bad choices. Hiring Cora showed a lack of integrity, something Boston can’t afford to show since so many detractors hate the Patriots for winning so much so they point out anything that can be blown out of proportion as cheating. For the Red Sox, you don’t have to blow anything out of proportion, they hired a serial cheater to manage their team An unprecedented move in baseball history. And to do it to show diversity after throwing away their two best black players is absolutely absurd.
I’ was a Red Sox fan for about 10 more years than you Yaz1971 so it took nearly 50 years to see a ring. Ownership could do no wrong at that point. Even bad player moves (Nomar, Pedro etc.) were acceptable early in the ownership’s tenure. The 2018 team was in it’s prime with the best GM in baseball and they fired the GM then dismantled a great team positioned to win more rings with a healthy Sale.
The fans should be angry with the ownership. They destroyed a great thing and now it will be years before the franchise will be a winner again. Add to that the despicable Cora and the frugal Bloom and you have a disaster worth noting. 4th pick in the draft explains the success of the Red Sox owners since firing DD.
Fans have a right to complain when ownership ruins a perfectly fine franchise. Long time fans like you and me have suffered through the lean years and I hoped that it would never happen again but it’s upon us now. The hardest part to comprehend is why blow up this franchise? What event triggered the demolition that started with DD? We can’t turn back the clock and fix it so the recently born Red Sox fans might be in for the same destiny my father had, he lived 80 years and NEVER saw a ring ceremony for the Red Sox. I sure hope that’s not the case but nobody expected it to happen the first time so why is it not possible?
I agree fans shouldn’t hate on the players but ownership is a completely different story. Something has interrupted the smooth passage of the Red Sox franchise and turned the boat in a completely new direction that began with it hitting a couple of icebergs. (Mookie deal and Cora). There is plenty of rough sailing in the future for this franchise. Let’s hope they can move on from their mistakes (Cora and Bloom) quickly and get the ship back on course to winning.
Agree w your posts for the most part, but Roberts couldnt hold Lasorda s j strap on his best day….W the roster Roberts has had he should have a minimum of three titles irregardless of Astros shenanigans. Roberts bizarre lineups and pitching changes, overall bullpen management cost our Bums at least two titles
Butch knows a lot. This sounds like Peralta 2.0. No matter his “pedigree” I’d rather let one of the younger guys man the position unless the team still has big time pitching ideas to win in 21.
Exactly
Looking at the roster as is, I find it hard to imagine the thinking behind this move. He is a stop gap, utility player. 7 million a year. There are two players on the roster that can play the position, and one grooming for the position. each of the two we have is every bit as mediocre, and I can see Downes being able to produce a .240 average with 10 homeruns over 400+ AB’s. Who ever isn’t on the field out of the three IS the utility player. I have all the faith in the world any of the three can hit about .240 with 10 homeruns for less money. I would rather of had DJ for 15 a year over 6, solved the second base problem for years, improved MVP caliber production that fields well, and traded the surplus of mediocre for pitching.
Sign Kiki, trade Benny for a closer and then add one more BP arm. Sox are done after that. It’s going to be a lean year in Fenway. Let’s hope that Dalbec, Houck, Downs, Mata and maybe even more rookies get a long look this season. It’s painfully obvious that Boston doesn’t intend to compete until at least 2022. Time to let the kids play!
Right Dorothy so why spend anything more than you have to when you have a couple of younger players who looked at least just as good in small sample sizes last year?
You answered your own question looie.
SMALL SAMPLE SIZES.
Also, there’s always a guy with little experience that can man a position better. BUT how many of those are better than replacement at many positions all over the diamond?
Bloom saw what he lost not have a Swiss army knife without Brock. Also, guys with that potential aren’t always available to sign for cash (no trade needed) thus the multi year aspect – get him.now before you truly need him.
$14m for two years?
$7m per. Probably worth 4-5m.
But, right now you’ve got to overpay to entice someone to sign onto the sinking ship that’s the S.S. 2021 Red Sox.
Everyone who chose elsewhere or passed on blooms offers demonstrates that.
It’s actually the 2 year length that surprised me. I expected options bringing it to a 3 or 4 yr deal. That smells like more of a summer flip Ala Moreland.
I pegged him at 3/18 at the start off the offseason
Agreed id rather have seen options for a 23/24
For as much as I’d love to see the kids play I wouldn’t be against sighing
some players who could be traded at the deadline.for some prospects.
Yes, you guys are a power house.
What are some of his notable sabermetrics and algorithms that the Red Sox might be looking at Connor?
He is a fun and cool guy and has been clutch for the Dodgers in the past. Just for that, I give him an A+
thanks Chaim, thank you so much! I can’t believe you pulled this off!
Dumpster diving Chaim has really flagshipped an amazing organizational change which mainly involves reducing the value of each ticket sold, without affecting the price. Amazing!
Pretty incredible that the Sox have Devers, Bogaerts, Verdugo, and Benintendi in their primes…and are just punting on *multiple* seasons.
Why is next year (2022) going to be any different? The payroll situation is the exact same for next season too…
Maybe they make a few more trades to lower it a bit more and then splurge on the free agent class of ‘22 which is loaded compared to this years.
What does a tweet like that even mean?
It was in English.
Nice. We needed a .240 hitter with flexibility. Fairly sure we already have a few of those to call up from in house, but whatever. Seeing the DJ LeMahue contract, and what it was finalized for makes me just shake my head at the Red Sox. 6 years of filling a glaring hole as a top notch hitter and defender for an affordable price point seemed like a no brainer. Depriving the Yankees the added bonus. Using Downes as a trade chip for pitching would have been just as nice. I do see how the Sox can think that embracing the Kiki, and “hope Downes pans out down the line” may have seemed a better option then a plus defender with multiple batting titles..
You are assuming LeMahieu had any interest in going to the Red Sox, which you very well might not have.
*he* very well might not have.
Of course he didn’t. He was signing only with NY. The question I had was if the Sox had shown interest, could they have upped the cost so NY was closer to the threshold?
I agree he preferred to be a Yankee, but telling the world you aren’t going over 4 years for all stars is not a great way to get all stars either. DJ for a time was really unhappy with the negotiations with the Yankees, and it wasn’t over the money, it was over the years. For a few weeks it was in all our papers in New York. The Yankees were trying to go short term deals, and he wasn’t having it. It was really a no brainer to attempt to strike for either more years at that time to get him at the 15 for 6, or offer him more at 17 for 5. The policy of no more then 4 took us out of the exact terms he was looking for, but for less money then we all thought he would get.
Kiki will not hit 240, he will hit more like 200. He was given the 2B job in La and hit like 150. If he could hit he would be an everyday player he never has.
Red Sox need whatever help they can get. I’ve always liked Kike, he’s an energetic player who can field almost any position. It’s going to be weird seeing him with the crimson “B”
Does he become their everyday 2B? Maybe a platoon with Chavis since Chavis isn’t bad vs RHP?
La Stella still available why not sign him instead.
The Yankees could use some more lefty bats. Could they trade Benny for Andujar?
Dude wtf. Even as a Nats fan I know Red Sox are not making a deal with the Yankees. You should definitely know that.
Benny Babarino maybe
For reals, that trade isn’t happening. No matter how good a fit the two sides may be on paper, there will never be a deal.
To play 2B regularly or to platoon with Hernandez? If you’re suggesting the former, I could see it. It would make a lot more sense if you ask me, but I feel he’ll get offered more than one or two years. Sox don’t want a longer term answer at 2B with Downs. If you’re suggesting the latter, then he’ll likely get a job somewhere else as a regular infielder.
You are right, the sox aren’t looking for a long term answer. This year is an evaluation year for chavis and dalbec. Downs and Potts are both potential second basemen of the future that could arrive in the majors in 2022. Let’s also not forget that they selected second baseman Nick Yorke in the first round this past draft and he is believed to be a quick riser. He could be viewed as having an ETA of 2023. And as far as first base, Tristan Casas was the sox 2018 first round pick and is their number 1 organizational prospect. Chavis’ ability to play first in addition to dalbec makes them the two guys being evaluated this season the most
Every year is a trial year when you have virtually no pitching. You can get by with defenders and a decent lineup but not without pitching. Bloom has done nothing to improve our weakest links. Martin Perez again was the most asinine signing ever.
La Stella is a much better hitter than Kike, and more upside…
Better bat. Way worse glove
Never saw LaStella in the outfield. Was much better off the bench than a starter until recently. Kiki more versatile and has decent pop in his bat. I’d say LaStella is more of an batting average guy but if you need someone that can play all of the positions with 20/25 HR power Kiki is the man for the job.
I could see him spending most days as their 2nd baseman then days that they want to get Chavis in they can shift Kike to the outfield
He’s played the second most games in his career in CF, although much of that was earlier. Having Bellinger impacts that, but curious how good he rates out there. If so, 2B and CF could be how he’s deployed.
Chavis has options. Perhaps he spends the year in AAA, getting more reps in the OF.
Is Kiki going to start in LF and the Red Sox are dealing Benintendi? Kiki should be starting over Renfroe.
The sox aren’t going to deal benintendi. Kiki would use his ability to play around the diamond to fight for at bats at second and in the outfield
Kiki drills lefties, but he could hit better than usual at Fenway.
Almost as fun as drilling hefties
Whatever it takes to get out of a slump.
It was at this moment that the Arizona coyotes heard the cackle of the ol’ Slumpbuster Mark Grace himself, radiating over the dusk glow of the desert…
I’m a big fan of Kike. Always awesome to hear his interviews or when he’s mic’ed up so I would imagine he was a great asset to the clubhouse. He is a good player that came in clutch many times and will more than likely get better if given an opportunity to play every day.
they want to block their prospects
I don’t really see how this blocks their prospects. Downs is their long term answer at the keystone but he won’t be up for another year or so. Who is being blocked here? Michael Chavis and Christian Arroyo?
Well where is Chavis going to play?? Maybe LF if Benny is traded ?
Looking for playing time for Chavis probably isn’t among the top of the priority list for the Red Sox. He’s a better batter vs RHP than Hernandez so he could platoon with him at 2B. He’ll probably get a decent amount of plate appearances overall because he can play first base, second base, third base and left field.
They won’t be blocking any prospects. Hernandez plays around the diamond and in the outfield. He isn’t just as second baseman. He will be a solid plan B to chavis if chavis doesn’t work out. But you best bet chavis will get a real opportunity at second and dalbec will get a real opportunity at first. It is an evaluation year for the two of them. With downs and Hudson Potts considered potential long term options with an ETA if 2022 and 2020 first round pick Nick Yorke being a second baseman that is thought of as a potential quick riser, now is the evaluation year for chavis at second (and at first if dalbec struggles) and dalbec at first. To add to the fact it is an evaluation year is the fact their number 1 prospeft is a first baseman in Tristan Casas who likely has an ETA of 2022 or 2023
My guess is Chavis starts in AAA if they sign kike.
So you think 7 million/yr to BACK up is a good deal for the Sox??
Do you think he is not starting at 2B?
For 7 million/yr he BETTER start SOMEWHERE !! I’m not against KIKE but this is the highest salary Bloom has given out in his now 2 off seasons as Red Sox GM AND HE DOESN’T PITCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not to mention he probably gets flipped at the break unless something unexpected happens contention-wise
It’s obvious he would rather start than win. I’m not talking about just the Mets. Many competitive teams could use him.
I was thinking you were talking bout the Mets lol. But that is a very good point, he also probably went in for the money to.
In all fairness, if Hernandez isn’t getting paid an absurd amount over a year or two, he’ll likely get traded to a contender before the season ends.
Please list me some of those deadline deals involving utility infielders! Starting IF get traded to upgrade the contending teams bench, not the utility guy!!
Jonathan Villar got traded last trade deadline for a pretty decent prospect. Not saying that he’d be part of some franchise altering deal, but not every deal thoughout the season needs to be for a starting caliber player.
Starting is where the money is I guess. Personally, I’d rather win but most people go for the most money.
Wow! This is so much better than signing a real pitcher or Springer or Brantley or LeMahieu! All Sox fans should be psyched. When can I buy mySeries tickets?
A .230 hitter who should provide a big boost to the team. This is not what I would call an earth shattering propelling signing. Another great job by Bloom!!! Better line up to get our World Series tickets!!!
Kike’s strength is the flexibility he provides in the field. You can plug him at 3B, SS or 2B and any OF position and you’re getting plus to elite defense. He has some pop but not enough plate discipline to hit for a high average or get on base enough. Ideally he’s a bench guy and fill in for injury starter. There is obvious value for this kind of player but the sense was that he wanted more playing time and could command higher pay elsewhere. LA still has Chris Taylor to fill that role and he has a better bat but not as good of glove as Kike.
The Tampa Red Sox are fielding a subpar team because there will be no fans in the seats – no concern over ticket sales. They are abusing present circumstances and disrespecting their fans. You don’t trade Mookie Betts – period. It’s been all downhill since Bloom arrived. Good to see the PR department is still fielding a strong squad, though.
If they kept Betts, he’d be a free agent now ahead of Bauer on the list, and fielding offers from everyone.. Except the Red Sox, because they would have given his money to David Price.
If they kept Betts he may have re-signed to the $300 million they kept offering. I’m sure the pandemic helped make it an easy choice to sign a new deal with the Dodgers rather than try his luck on the open market
Betts WAS NOT signing an extension with the Red Sox for ANY amount.
Fact remains – a team with the Red Sox resources should have kept the best player in baseball.
Actually, once a player reaches free agency, they are allowed to sign with any team they want to. And Betts, for whatever reason, did not want to sign with the RS. I loved him with the RS, but once a player reaches free agency, there is no excess value in them any more.
Much, much better to have Verdugo and $30M to spend, than to have Betts.
Problem is in 2 offseasons, 1 regular season that 30m hasn’t been meaningfully spent.
If nothing else could bought underwater expiring contracts with prospects attached.
Of course it wasn’t spent. The entire Betts trade was predicated on getting under the cap.
Not disputing that 30 parks but I think it was obvious Betts was NOT signing an extension with Boston so better to get Verdugo than a later 2nd round pick. Who know Downs may actually surprise us and work out too.
Yes, and Boston was under the cap trading Betts.
Then 16m MORE under the cap by trading price.
THEN 32M UNDER WHEN PRICE OPTED OUT 2020.
Plenty of room to buy prospects, not 32m but still pro-rata basis. Bloom blew that part of his job too.
They were only $16M under when he opted out. That was the RS portion of his salary.
The issue was that it was way past the off-season when he opted out. I believe it was late-July when he made that decision. Way too late to pick up the players that signed in January.
I just can’t anymore…
I’ve politely debated with “Sox” fans on a local fan FB page about trading Betts ad nauseam. If you can’t, as a sox fan, a baseball fan, a person with at least a jr. high education, understand the dynamics surrounding the Betts trade and how it was the best option, just go buy a Dodgers hat and a Lebron jersey and be that fan elsewhere.
Trading Betts was the best option because of payroll mismanagement. Stop assuming people don’t understand your point of view. I’m saying a team with Boston’s resources should pay Betts to stay in town. Period. Boston spins the Betts trade as if they had no other choice when, in fact, it was Boston that weighed down its payroll to the point of having to move Betts. The Red Sox front office caused this problem.
The Boston Red Sox traded the best player in baseball to a rival powerhouse. This should sound frightfully familiar in Boston. Take off the rose coloured glasses – Boston had the best player in baseball, now he’s a Dodger. Inexcusable.
Boston that weighed down its payroll to the point of having to move Betts.
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Yeah, what do you think contributed to the 2018 WSC? We loaded down for payroll with Price, JDM, Kimbrel, etc.
You can have a cheaper team, by never adding free agents. Is that what you want, or do you want the flags?
Actually, it was AFTER the ws championship the I’ll advised extensions to sale, eovaldi, pillar, etc were handed out. The title was won before that money was spent. FWIW
First off, Mike Trout. Second, so you are saying the Sox should’ve ham strung themselves to Mookie’s 12/$420 deal he was seeking to stay in Boston? The dude repeatedly says he’s going to test free agency. Then he gets traded and signs an extension before he hits free agency for less than he was asking for in Boston. What does that tell you? To me it says he had no intention of staying in Boston.
Mike Trout has 12 ABs in the playoffs. Mookie has two rings. I’ll take Mookie, thanks. What your scenario tells me is the Dodgers were genuinely interested in retaining the best player in baseball. The Sox had no intentions of signing Mookie due to one of John Henry’s erratic belt tightening phases.
You don’t trade Mookie Betts.
Good for the Sox.
A quality bat!
Sure he was happy to see Profar got 3/21. Kike should beat that, I’d think. Better, longer track record
Kike will be lucky to get more than a 1yr/$3M deal. No way he even comes close to that $7M Profar number, not a chance!
If Profar gets 7M a year, Kike is not taking 3. But keep dreaming
There’s NO CHANCE Kike even comes close to $7M a year Profar is still a far superior hitter and overall player. Hea also younger. Hernandez deal is probably for 2 years at somewhere between $6-$10M DEFINITELY NOT anywhere near Profar’s 3/$21… if it is near Profar’s contract then the Red Sox made a HUGE mistake… but I’m pretty sure that won’t be the case.
You were saying?
Clearly, Profar and kike has the same offers, and the Padres overpaid with the extra year. But yeah, you were right! Kike would never get 7M! Oh wait
You were saying… Preller overpaid again? Gotcha
This 7m is probably the overpay it takes to convince a guy to sign on to a non-contender that’s dead in the water.
Versatility comes with a price. If you can play a decent 6-7 spots on the diamond, you get paid as if you hit .030 higher or an extra dozen dingers.
Reality is, Kiki was also plan ‘g’ in the FA market for the Sox. Guys just weren’t interested at what bloom offered. At some point, you suck it up, sign who may have multi-year worth, and who you might try to flip at the deadline.
The 2 years deal smells like deadline trade that gives value past a rental for higher return more than indication at wanting a supersub to contend, but, who knows
Kike has better offensive and defense numbers than Profar, with more years producing at an above average rate+ a longer track record of health
And the red Sox got the better player for the same AAV, but shorter commitment and no opt outs
I don’t really see how Boston overpaid based on the market. You may not think he’s needed, but hard to say he’s overpaid, based in the market, unless you think Profar is a massive overpayment imo. Like I said, it’s a cleaner+shorter contract
WOW I stand corrected. Looks like the Sox did actually give Kike $7M a year. Or at least that’s what’s being reported. I think that’s a bit of an overpay.
No, it is not Jeff. Kike is worth it, as you will see.
Im actually not necessarily against him personally for that much money as I am that the red Sox need pitching soo much more than they need a super utility guy. Like if this is just one of several moves to come and they also pick up bullpen help and a starter I have no real qualms with $7M for Hernandez. But if this is the main FA they sign and then don’t address the bullpen or rotation then my real issue ia… they shouldn’t be giving $7M to a guy who’s not really going to be that much of a difference maker for the team in the broader picture. Their offense was already quite solid. But without a much better bullpen and another we starter it’s all basically useless Idk we shall see but I hope that Hernandez provides great value. I’m just really not solid on needing a $7M super utility player at this point.
Yeah like I said… boy was I wrong!! I’m still not sure I get it/why but he sure did get the same AAV as Profar there’s no doubt about it.
LOLPadreFans14 hours ago
You were saying?
======================================
I’m wondering if anyone knows how much Kike made in arbitration? It was $5.9M, and yet some people think his FA contract should half of that,
Like got 14 million for 2 years–WTF !!!!
Like got 14 million for 2 years–WT. !!!!
This aged well
Good call LOL Padres…I’ll admit when I’m wrong! 2/$14M for Kike. Happy for him but I am utterly confused as to what Chaim is doing now. Seems like a huge overpay for a utility IF, but he won’t pay the price for actual FA’s who will start and help the club. Very strange offseason for Boston so far.
There were early rumors that he could be headed to the Twins to replace Adrianza and Marwin and I was all for that. Looks like a good ball player, I enjoyed watching him with the clutch hit this last post season.
No prospect blocking here. When Downs is ready Hernandez goes to a utility role which is basically what he is being signed for. Chavis can play 1B/2B/3B and some corner OF, it’s one of Arroyo and Munoz that will be the odd man out here. I would think Arroyo may be the unlucky one if only for the fact that Munoz plays all three OF spots as well as 2B/SS. Arauz is likely ticketed for AAA.
You gonna pay him 6M a year as a utility player when they need pitching???
Asinine.
No, they are going to pay him $7M/yr to be a utility guy. Should have brought Brock Star back for 2/$4M if you ask me.
What makes you think he is going to be a utility guy? There is almost no chance Chavis is our starting 2B. And I like Arroyo, but he isn’t starting over Kike.
We’ll certainly miss you, Kike.
Solid defender that can hit an occasional home run. I am curious, like many others, how much money the Red Sox intend to pay for that skill.
Hopefully not too much. Kiki’s lovable, but he’s essentially a “meh” guy who plays in a “meh” way, only in many different positions.
At least he has the personality to try to make fans forget that this isn’t a very good team.
But Red Sox Nation doesn’t forget like that.
For sure. Nice post. He is definitely a likable player. But is fringy at best.
2018 – terrible OPS at Catcher and Second Base
2013 – terrible OPS at Third Base
2007 – terrible OPS at Shortstop and Centerfield
2004 – terrible OPS at Shortstop and Rightfield
It’s a myth that you have to have good players at every position to win championships. There are countless examples of teams with marginal offensive players at “up the middle” positions where defense counts more than at the other positions.
Criticize Bloom. Underestimate the Red Sox. They are the most successful franchise of the past twenty years. Ownership knows what they’re doing, they know how to hire, they make corrections when necessary. If you don’t think Bloom can pull this off, wait for it.
They are closer to another championship than most of you think.
Combining Nomar and Orlando Cabrera’s OPS in 2004, it was the opposite of terrible. Trot Nixon was injured most of the year and his OPS was also the opposite of terrible.
2007 it’s a good thing they had a young Ellsbury. And good starting pitching.
And a thank you to Bogaerts for stepping in at 3B in 2013.
Technically could call Brock Holt the 2B in 2018. Especially come postseason.
This 2021 squad will still need to pitch to be as close to a championship as you think.
You’re missing my point by nitpicking.
Or you decided to attempt to mislead with your point? Yes, that’s it.
NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go series by series and predict. Are they going to win 10 of 19 from the Yankees? NO WAY. Blue Jays? NO WAY. TB? NO WAY. BAL? Maybe but it’s not guaranteed.. The Red Sox division will eat them alive. The four WS years you improperly analyzed have nothing to do with the 2021 team. Also, as a fan, you need to throw out using OPS in any argument. It is batting average biased. OPS breaks down into SLG and OBP which is BA+Isolated Power AND BA + walks, sfs etc. NOTE THAT BA appears twice in the equation!!! Batting average bias. At least show your knowledge of stats and present OPS minus BA to eliminate the bias.
The Red Sox don’t have a guy who can replace Mookie’s 260 times on base in a season consequently the runs scored will continue to lag like 2020. The pitching, until Sale is back and pitching like Sale and E-Rod is back pitching like the one year he was good is TERRIBLE. Eovaldi is a decent #3 SP facing #1 SPs and losing. When you match 1-5 from good teams with your 3=7 SPs you lose a lot more games and that’s what will happen again in 2021 if Sale and E-Rod are not starting.
Next, check out the actual schedule. The tough part is when Sale won’t be there and E-Rod might not be there if he has any issues from his heart. It’s just like 2020 where they appeared to do better in the end of the season but it was an illusion caused by strength of schedule. Strength of schedule in the early months will bury the Red Sox in the cellar.
Don’t be surprised if the Red Sox are 10 out by the end of April. If they are, thank ownership for their blockhead decisions. On a positive note, there is a decent chance the 2022 draft pick might be closer to the first pick than the 2021 draft pick!!
Not the piece to put them over the top so I can’t imagine they would give him much money, since they are be careful with their money this year.
Lotta miserable takes in here for a potential awesome sign but Kiki will bring some joy to Boston as they lay up for 4th place this year
Id like to see something like a 2 yr guarantee with maybe 2 team options after that if he excels. This is just the type of guy you want to help shape a quick build-up and then postseason runs thereafter. Still only 29; carries a ton of exp/big moments
Just goes to show you how overated Dodger players are or how uneducated dodger fans are of actual baseball statistics and how to evaluate production. Hernandez was always soo hyped among fans and the dude was literally an average hitter and maybe even worse during 19-20. Yet you’ll still hear people says he is “clutch” lmfaooo. Exactly how they undervalued Pedro Baez even though he was a much better player throughout his Dodger tenure lol.
Actuallly, he has had some clutch hits in the playoffs, the most recent being the game tying home run in game 7 against the Braves. He probably won’t get that opportunity if he signs with the Red Sox. But overall, you’re right, his signing with another team isn’t going to stunt the Dodgers plans.
Baez velocity has been steadily dropping. I got love for Baez, and wish him well, but his best days are probably behind him.
All your complaint shows is how uneducated you are about the Dodgers and how they provide their most value. Kikis value is not with the bat at all, any offense he gives you is a plus. His value is playing every position but catcher and pitcher with above average to elite defense, no matter the day or the spot. When he was also an above average bat, that made him that much more valuable
Baez had a shiny ERA, but was suspect at best in many high-pressure spots. While his change up has played up, his velo is declining rather quickly. But just looking at his bref page, how would you know that??
Maybe learn why a player is praised-or criticized- before pretending there’s no justification? Just makes you look uninformed
This is crazy! They aren’t going to compete this year, so instead of letting the 3 young guys try and develope, Chavis, arroyo, Munoz, let’s sign a 30 year old glove only utility guy that will cost 6 mil a year. Instead of letting the young guys create value before getting traded, let’s just keep them at triple A or on the bench until they have no value and are released. Go Chaim! It won’t matter if fans are allowed in the stands or not. Few will care to go. Down with Dodgers castoffs.
How many young players come up to the majors not only excel immediately, but do so while covering multiple positions? That list is not very long
Kike should not block anyone. But he’s a helluva Swiss Army knife to have around
This would be a good signing if the team actually had a chance. The Red Sox are shaping up to be a 1970’s version of themselves. A couple of good pitchers with a bunch of stiffs and a nice lineup.
So where is our starter? Apparently Bloom only likes to sign bench warmers or low risk low reward players. Kike is okay as a player but he doesn’t change our team’s dynamic. Really missing DD right now and can’t believe I’m saying that.
Bloom is working on it LOL
Wait Cora is still the manager of the Red Sox? Wasnt he exiled for being found guilty of cheating on multiple occasions?
They hired him back
Sure, why not!
He was rehired a few months ago.
Man, what is his pitch arsenal?
I just don’t see the fit here for Hernandez and the Red Sox. Their infield is pretty much set. Leaving one team as a utility player and going to another to be the same. The signing really doesn’t make sense.
Has any Bloom signing ever made sense?
42 year Dodger fan here. Kike was my favorite player on the team. He’a going to win a GG if they’ll let him play everyday. Sad to see him go.
Thank God in Heaven!!!! I have been waiting for this since the off season ended!!! A .230 hitter who is going to propel the Red Sox into first place!!! Way to go Bloom!!!!!
Can you stop complaining sir?
I’m not against this signing by any means. I think his versatility and pop can definitely be useful for the club. But as a more general/broad observation… I really don’t get what their off-season plan is. Like more than anything they need bullpen and maybe SP help. But have done virtually nothing to address either area. Then the two main offensive guys they’ve signed are decent but have typically been below average OBP guys. And generally a team that’s trying to play “small ball” focuses more on walks and OBP. Idk I’m not against either Renfroe or Hernandez being added to the club… I’m just not sure I really understand the “big picture” and what they’re trying to do… it seems like an oddly disjointed off-season so far. Who knows maybe they’re still planning to add some solid pitching — they could still conceivably sign someone like Tanaka or Walker… though it doesn’t seem likely. But then they also desperately need to address the bullpen. And not just with non-roster invites. Like they need a legitimate CL and probably another setup option. Idk… I’m just not understanding the logic so far to this off-season
c’mon, Bloom, this is the guy you get as insurance when you’re looking to make a run – a little bit of this and that, great character etc – totally unnecessary right now
Whether the signing is good or not, that dugout should be awesome with Kike and Kid Chingon providing energy.
Bloom should be fired for this ridiculous spend.
There’s many reasons I champion firing bloom. This signing is OK in general, but, why, WHY is Boston attaching deferred money on a 7m deal?
I have no idea how to process this statement. Deferring money is always, always better than paying it out immediately. Further, depending on the type of deferment, MLB will calculate the PV of the money, making it a lower hit to the payroll cap. For example, Betts’ contract call for $365M/12 ($30.4M), but the amount charged to the cap is only $25.5M.
I honestly have no idea why a fan would object to deferring money.
Because *IF* we believe the excuse that Boston is going to finally, eventually, seek to contend for 2022 or 2023 (the year keeps changing to be further away every off season) then every million they defer counts against them in the future.
The money owed to Manny, panda, pedey, etc wasn’t discounted off cbt. I believe limits to cbt will change but not calculation,, or at least not much. So if you’re not trying to win as the lack of positive moves indicate, pay down now and keep your books clear for when you’re going to go for it.
No, the money never carries forward past the contract duration, His entire salary is expensed in 2021/22. Think about this intuitively. If deferred money didn’t count against the current year cap, all a team would have to do is to offer to pay me $10M for my services in 2021, but not to pay me until 2022.
What the discounting does is to recognize that a $100M/10 contract, paid out over 10 years, is worth a good bit more than a $100M/10 contract paid out over 20 years.
You know, you don’t have to critical of every aspect of the RS operation. Even people that are flipping coins, are still right 50% of the time.
JoeBrady – GASoxFan is spot on with his comments and you did your usual mistaken facts.
Betts got paid $65M in 2020 which was a bonus NOT included in his AAV so his AAV is $30.4M NOT $25.5M. The time value of money makes the upfront money paid raise the total contract over others who took an even spread or a deferred payout. Mookie was smart to grab the cash in a year when LAD was far enough below the cap that $65M didn’t hurt them and now Mookie costs $3.4M more per year than he would have in his last year of arbitration. Maybe instead of Hernandez the Red Sox should have gotten the LAD financial team. It would have helped them win sooner!!
Bloom’s reason for ANY deferring of payroll is to keep under the LUXURY TAX that he’s not allowed to exceed as I have explained to you many times.
Back to GASoxFan’s comment. It is INSANE to defer money when your team is expected to win 65 games. Bloom should be fired or the financial people advising him. This is as dumb as paying LAD $16M a year to watch Price pitch for them when the luxury tax on Price’s salary was only $10M per year.
Financial suicide best describes the recent financial direction taken by the Red Sox.
GASoxFan…… great comment.
JoeBrady = CASHFLOW and AAV are not the same concept. Take JD.for instance. 5 year contract for $110M means an AAV of 110/5 or $22M per year for 5 years. The actual CASHFLOW was $23.75M in 2018 to 2020 and then $19.35M in 2021 and 2022. That’s called a front loaded contract. More money in the early years and less in later years. AAV doesn’t care about cashflow, it’s strictly there for Luxury Tax calculations.
During a Pandemic CASHFLOW may be of greater importance than AAV, especially for a team not competing. The deferred money doesn’t go against the cap but does impact CASHFLOW.
As a big market team, CASHFLOW as insignificant as what we are talking about in this case shouldn’t even be a consideration unless ownership is having financial problems. That’s the scary part about the Red Sox deferring cashflow.that is so small is they are obviously worried about the integrity of their financial situation.
That further supports the idea that the CAP will not be exceeded. Otherwise, the only reason to defer cash to a short term contract is to allow the player to have income in the event they don’t have a job after the contract. I’m not sure Hernandez fits into that category of player.
GASoxFan – Ignore JoeBrady when it comes to complaining about the Red Sox. Ownership brought this on them and fans have the right to be unhappy with the actions of the last 18 months.
The Giants just got an extra two wins in 2021. That’s how many times Kike single handedly beat them every year. He’s a Gold Glove caliber middle infielder and center fielder. His batting stats are semi unremarkable but with the game on the line there are few better. As a Giants fan it’s nice to see him 3000 miles away and in another league. Nothing but respect for Kike.
classy, authentic and insightful comment. Thanks!
Huge Dodger fan and love Kiki. Will be missed hope you all the best in Boston. The Dodgers would never have come close to that price as they viewed him as a replaceable player they could pay for less money. Good luck Kiki.
Moving from L.A. to Boston? Yikes. Horrible weather, most racist city in baseball? Oh well, at least he’ll be making enough money to hopefully live far outside the city.
Hey we’re not talking about St. Louis here!
To me Padres overspent on Profar at $7m per and the Red Sox did the same on Kiki. Take Kiki’s $7m and add $3-5m per and you have a Tanaka…. I would take Tanaka and they need the pitching help. Evoldi can’t throw 175 innings a year, Sale will pitch half a season and need to be handled carefully and E-Rod will need to be eased back…. they need pitching more than a great hustle/high energy utility guy, in my opinion.
Tanaka for $10-12M? Happ just got $8M. Tanaka can get $10M right now going back to Japan. Tanaka is going to get somewhere north of $16M on a one-year deal.
The RS lit up Tanaka the past couple of years. Had to be inspired by someone you regularly beat up.
Tanaka wants 15-20 per, so double to triple that.
They’re out on JBJ with this signing.
This guy is a dime a dozen and they give him 14M? I was hoping bloom would bring something to this organization but so far I don’t see it. Not To say Hernandez isn’t a average player but for 14M they could have spent money elsewhere. I guess trade fodder in his 2cnd year and the Sox are in the basement and he is hitting .250 and playing everywhere. Ho hum. Chaim Doom
Everest…does anyone ever tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about?
I feel you everest. You keep commenting champ. I don’t like this signing. Bloom did some good trades at deadline, and did well with betts return. That’s about it. Any semi competent gm can trade away assets for a good return though. Now if he trades this guy for good prospects or improves his numbers I will be impressed.
Got the ring, now get that money. Gotta pad that retirement account.
2/14 is the largest FA deal under bloom’s tenure!?! Is he even doing his job? This is not the “compete with the yankees” boston club I’m used to. I have no idea what boston is doing.
There’s a good reason the ‘Tampa Bay north” moniker has been gaining traction…
Too much money. That kind of money is for a contender that doesn’t want to trust young players in a utility role. Sox need to let the kids play.
1-It won’t be a utility role. I’d be very surprised if he was not our starting 2B.
2-What kids do we have at 2B? Chavis has been uniformly awful He had a .636 OPS and no glove at 2B. I like what I saw from Arroyo, but he has never started anywhere.
Think about Cora and his management style. Recall his contract term, think Kiki’s.
Cora didn’t have a super utility guy on staff and doubtless wanted one. Roenicke may not have been as ardent about keeping Brock for that role, but now that Cora returns it may have been more of a priority.
Kiki isn’t so great at 2b that I’d hand him the starting job by any means. 60 starts at 2b, and 10 each spelling guys in the IF/OF and you’ve got a full season worth of starts. Not outlandish to platoon/supersub him if others prove incapable.
Ideally Wong is the 2b target.
Wong was my guy as well. I was surprised that StL non-tendered him. FWIW, Kike’s OPS+ over the past three years is 99, while Wong’s was 100, so they are fairly identical offensively. But Wong has the better glove.
That said, I expect that, against tough lefties, Kike will replace Benni in LF, and either Arroyo or Chavis will get reps at 2nd. And Kike is good enough in CF that we no longer need someone like Pillar.
Wong is the better player, but Kike is the better fit.
I don’t care who they play at 2b. They don’t seem to be trying to contend. Don’t have to worry about filling fenway. I don’t see this as a difference making move. They could of found a cheaper option or no option. It doesn’t matter.
YourDreamGM8 hours ago
I don’t care who they play at 2b.
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How do you not care who we play at 2B? We were awful at 2B last year. Dead last out of 30 teams in sOPS+, with weak fielding.
I mean I don’t care. Anyone who is cheaper would be better. Hernandez wong Bring back holt for the fans. Trade for adam Frazier. Anybody cheaper or if they are truly trying to contend then someone better. Better get better pitchers as well if that is the case. Either try to contend. Tank. Or sign holt for good pr and tank. Not a fan of in the middle.
DJLM who is apparently “a god” has a lifetime OPS+ of 102, 4 points higher than this guy.
And that’s all that needs to be said.
Well, a lot of that despite the numbers he put up in his first two seasons with the Yankees has to do with the facts that 1.He was garbage in limited playing time in his only season with the Cubs, 2011, also the first season of his career and that 2016 was his only season with the Rockies that he had an OPS+ over 100, 128, to be exact and in his other 6 seasons with them, best to worst were 93, 92, 88 twice, 75, 74, giving him a 93 OPS+ with them, very disappointing considering that his home park then was Coors Field.
Career slash lines:
Profar: .238/.318/.397/.715, 91 OPS+
Kiké: .240/.313/.425/.738, 98
Reports said the Red Sox were the other team bidding heavily on Profar, which seems to indicate the Red Sox preferred Profar but moved onto their back-up choice once Profar picked the Padres. The Padres were able to structure a better deal for Profar with the opt outs not to mention playing in San Diego for this powerhouse Padre team is more interesting than the retooling Red Sox.
It’s how the player is viewed now and moving forward. I’d prefer Profar and it seems so did the Red Sox.
Does it mean they preferred Profar? They prolly had the same offer to both guys, then SD added the year AND the Opt outs
For Profar to live up to 3/21, he has to repeat 2020 and not regress. But if he does that, he’s opting out. If he doesn’t opt out, he regressed or got hurt
Meanwhile kike has been worth 7M every year since 2017 and 5 of 6 since 2015, using Bref+ a free agent win valuation of 9M/per. His 2020 was shaping up to be one of his most valuable, if it was a full year. Short of injury he’s a lock to be worth 2/14. He’s done it almost since he was a rookie. Profar, has not
Does it mean they preferred Profar? They prolly had the same offer to both guys, then SD added the year AND the Opt outs. By all appearances, SD overcommitted
For Profar to live up to 3/21, he has to repeat 2020 and not regress. But if he does that, he’s opting out. If he doesn’t opt out, he regressed or got hurt
Meanwhile Kike has been worth 7M every year since 2017 and 5 of 6 since 2015, using Bref+ a free agent win valuation of 9M/per. His 2020 was shaping up to be one of his most valuable, if it was a full year. Short of injury he’s a lock to be worth 2/14. He’s done it yearly since he was a rookie basically. Profar, has not
Interesting strategy Bloom is implementing. In some ways it echos what the Rays do bringing in interchangeable pieces, but Renfroe and Hernandez are also low-OBP players. Seems…counterintuitive.
The Rays landing Renfroe struck me as odd, and now Renfroe heads off to the Red Sox under Bloom. He has great power, and I can give him a pass on last season’s weirdness, but he still has a CAREER OBP of .290. That’s quite bad. Not sure what they see with him.
I loved TB’s acquisition of Renfroe, so needless to say, I love the RS acquisition.
I can easily admit that this is no lock. That said, on his side of the ledger:
* The #13 pick in the draft, so he has some pedigree. with a top-50 ranking.
* For the first half of 2019, he was playing at an AS level with a .942 OPS and 21 HRs in 207 PAs. That’s a long time to be that hot.
* In 2020, he had an unlikely to be repeated .141 BABIP. If that reverts back to his career .254, his OPS reverts back to about .850.
Pedigree is like a college degree. Once you’re out a few years nobody cares and it shouldn’t carry much further weight. Get judged on what you’ve done lately.
The one flaw in OPS is it tends to over reward high strikeout hitters that have power.
You can strike out a ton, not walk often, have a low obp, but if those hits land for doubles or hrs you’ve got a high OPS.
If, IF, renfroe is intended to hit leadoff and they don’t try to redeem Benny into being comfortable there, or get someone else, there it’s a problem. The job of a leadoff guy is to get on base, set the table, and force the pticher into the stretch for the mashers behind you.
Renfroe doesn’t fit that bill well. In his 3 semi full seasons he got upper 60s in non-hr hits or so, and 35 walks or so on average per each year 2017-2019.
If your leadoff guy is on the bases for a hitter behind him 100 times in a season you will have big problems.
Duran will be batting lead off by August. While we wait for him, they might have to ‘waste’ Verdugo in the lead off spot. I’d much rather see Verdugo bat 2nd or 3rd but he may be their only option at lead off when the season opens unless Kike can do it.
Yea, there aren’t many options. You can’t waste Devers who lacks speed or Bogey there. Chavis is too inconsistent, Benny has never performed/gotten comfort, and dalbec is both small sample and too much power to waste. JDM either is a masher or a bust if he can’t adapt to no video, but either way a logjam on the bases. Leaves verdugo, renfroe, Kiki, and any other pickups since nobody else looks like a regular.
Could be a revolving door, but really you want high obp + speed. Kiki has been below average obp 4 of the last 5 years however, so, verdugo *looks* like the only serviceable choice, and yet, doesn’t really belong there.
More evidence of lackluster roster construction by bloom.
Renfroe is never going to lead off. I assume he will bat 6th/7th, and Verdugo will lead off.
Duran will be batting lead off by August.
===============================================
Duran has shown me very little. He had a 84/23 K/W in AA at age So a weak hit tool box, no power, and no fielding to speak of. In the PRWL, he had a .658 OPS. -0- HRs in 70 PAs. I always hope for the best, but I doubt we ever see him at Fenway, let alone leading off by August.
Yes, it makes absolutely no sense to bat a guy that is a career .228 hitter with a lifetime on base percentage of .290 leadoff.
AGAIN JoeBrady – your Duran comments missed the mark.
Duran has hit .357 his first year in the minors then got promoted and hit .387 in Hi-A during 2019. The great Jeter Downs hit .269 at the same level in the same year (2019) and his OBP was .102 less than Duran.
I guess that refutes the “Duran has shown very little”. JoeBrady take a class on statistics and it might help your analysis!!!
What’s the most important thing for the lead-off man? OBP. Who beat Jeter Downs by over 100 points at the comparable level in the minors? Duran!!
Duran needs to start at AA prove that he can dominate at that level, then move up to AAA and prove he can hit at that level. Once that happens his promotion to a below average Red Sox team makes perfect sense and if his OBP continues to be excellent, he’s a great fit for the #1 hole in the line-up. With Cora being such a moron it probably won’t happen but not because it’s the most logical thing, it will not happen because the Red Sox have the worst manager in baseball.
He’s also a career .228 hitter that has twenty more extra base hits than he does non-extra base hits (175 to 155).
As always, it is an interesting paradox that most of the LAD fans, who see the guy every day, love the guy. And the RS ‘fans’, who never see him, already hate him.
It’s Brock Holt sentiment in reverse.
Anyone else have lowercased “Kike” get their comment blocked. Pretty lame
Not if you knew what it meant, or how incredibly offensive it is to it’s target.
Over my head but sometimes that’s not a bad thing. Disregard my confusion
Bad thing, yes. Against you, no.
The biggest problem with whitewashing history, as is happening today in other areas, is that over time people forget or never learn about it.
It’s the difference between saying kee-kee or k-eye-k same spelling, different pronunciation
Congrats Kiki, thanks for being a great in LAD. You will be missed.
Kike, I will miss your positive energy, defense, versatility and fearless, frequently clutch willingness to step into any challenge. You were a leader from the day you became a Dodger and one of the most beloved players I’ve rooted for since 1961 when this team won my heart. The very best of luck to you in Boston!
Booooo! Meh!
Love this guy. I hope Red Sox fans appreciate him as much as most of us Dodgers fans did. Great team player/clubhouse guy, was always nice to the fans and always gave it his all on the field. Came up clutch for us in some key moments.
14m/2yr? Could had brought back Rusney for that kind of money
That’s alotta cheddar for a glove, i thought Profar got overpaid but this is another level
It’s really not. A FA win is valued at at least 9M. That’s a 2 year old figure
Kike WAR since 2017: 1.1, 2.2, 3.3, 1.0(60 games)
9M a win. He’s been worth way more than 7M every year since 2017. And it extends out to 5 of the last 6 years since 2015. He’ll be a bargain
Why is 1 war worth 9m or more? Replacement level team is expected to win between 47-48 games.
That means to get to 82 wins, at your $9m/per, it costs 34/35 WAR, or $288-297m PLUS the cost of the replacement level guys to full out the roster. PLUS 40 man, and taxes, and benefits, and team operating costs.
And that’s for .500 record. Baseball records being a zero sum game, that means you want $300m/yr in player payroll alone, over 30 teams. All of mlb brings in $10B as in industry, but, you think the 25 man rosters should pay out $9B?
$9m/war is unsupported and irrational.
here is fangraphs explaining it. They’ll do it better than I will. This year a win in FA is worth 9.1M
blogs.fangraphs.com/the-cost-of-a-win-in-free-agen…
If you swallow that flawed reasoning then it’s economically inefficient to sign ANY free agent, and all teams should instead expand their minor league farms and NEVER sign a free agent – since you effectively get dozens of pre-arb WAR for the cost of a single FA WAR, but without costs of decline.
It also fails to accurately depreciate contract value for declining production, or account for the overpay teams give now to get less in future years.
Do you really think it’s controversial that teams are trying to forgo free agency and produce a player who produces similar results at a % of the cost? That’s been a trend for half a decade at least
Teams only go to FA when they cannot find similar production internally for cheaper. Every team wishes they could 100% avoid FA and develop every guy they need. But that’s just not plausible in practice
This concept isn’t someone’s opinion btw. This is based on considering every free agent contract for at least the last 3 years. It’s not really something you can reject. It’s based on actual contracts that have been signed by actual teams and actual players. Not projections not guessing, nothing
With that said, to buy valuable players, you have to pay for it. Whether you like it or not, Kike’s 1 War in 2020 projected to 2.7 in a full year. That value would be 24.57M over a full season. So he’d have been worth his entire deal, in just one year, if he only maintained his 2020 production
Now add he’s a streaky hitter and had not hit a hot streak in 2020 yet, yet he was already worth a projected 24.5M, It’s easy to see why Boston things he’s a value buy at 2/14 really
Amazing how much Boston fans are hating on this honestly
Amazing how much Boston fans are hating on this honestly
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People like GASoxFan, AL34, and Randy hate every RS move. That’s when their opinion becomes fairly meaningless.
I think Ed Koch phrased it best. He said ‘if you agree with me on 6-10 issues, you should vote for me. If you agree with me on 10-10, you should have your head examined’.
It’s the same with GMs. The worst GM in the league probably gets 40%+ of his decisions correct. If you think 100% of his decisions are wrong, then you aren’t being serious or rational.
@Lurking
Listen to yourself. Would you seriously pay $25MM/yr. for Kike?
JoeBrady – Trolling again and picking on the brightest Red Sox fans with your troll-like bashing.
I love the fact that once again you misquoted someone. Aren’t you embarrassed by the inaccuracy of your quotes. You might want to give the quoting a rest.
Real scientific on your part to pull 40% out of your rear end and proclaim it as a fact. Your nonsense never stops amazing me. Until now, I didn’t think stupidity could be cubed!!!
Deferrals? The Red Sox really are turning into Tampa.
Henry must be running out of money (insert BARF emoji). Maybe he’s going to sell.
“Call now, get a Season Ticket, and 2 MyPillows!!!”.
Wow $14M seems a little steep. And more than it seeming to be a bit of an overpay is that the Red Sox have WAY more serious holes that I feel like this money could have been spent fixing. For example they desperately need an experienced closer and probably an additional setup arm. And they really could have used a good SP more than a super utility guy. Idk all I can hope after seeing this deal is that it’s the first of several to come and indicates that the Sox are ready to and planning on spending some actual money on free agent pitchers in the coming days. I guess the story that the Sox were ready to move on Kluber before he signed with the Yankees indicates at least that they have and are willing to spend the money to bring in a FA SP… maybe Tanaka or as currently being reported Richards. Then beyond that they really need to bring in a STRONG bullpen piece or two. Maybe Brad Hand? Or one of the other experienced closers still available? Idk I just really hope that them giving a super utility guy $7M a year means they’re ready to spend additional $ to fill other more significant holes and NOT that they’re now tapped our after signing a guy who really isn’t a difference maker at all at this point. He’s a good player and I’m not saying I don’t want him… its just REALLY NOT their biggest need — by far.
As a 2B, he is probably worth about $7M.. For the RS, he is probably worth a bit more.
First, imho, we’re not a good fielding team, with 2B being more of a problem than some of our other positions. Our BABIP was 2nd worst in BB. Our pitching was probably part of that, but I am less than impressed with our fielding.
Second, assuming we keep Benni, I’d like a quality RH to spell him.
Third, the defensive alignment is not ideal. I’m ‘okay’ with Verdugo if CF, but we still needed a backup CF, and that was not going to be Benni or Renfroe. So part of the $7M eliminates the need for a $3M Pillar.
Kike and Yairo Munoz can each play CF when Verdugo needs a day off
BABIP is a tough statistic to measure Boston pitching by due to the lack of foul ground territory in Fenway Park. In large parks like Oakland, they get a ton of foul outs; in Boston they are few and far between, so most batted balls in Fenway end up being in play.
In 2020 Devers stunk in the field (AGAIN), there wasn’t a 2B to speak of, and Moreland was traded halfway through. Infield like a sieve.
Couple that to the above lack of foul territory plus the monster bump, the dismal babip wasn’t shocking.
I don’t think kiki/renfroe = verdugo in RF. I also don’t think verdugo = jbj in CF. (Defensively speaking)
So effectively, the 2021 Sox put Devers back, 2b in progress, 1b in progress. Of clear downgrade.
JoeBrady – 2B is more of a problem than 3B from a fielding perspective? Seriously?. How is it possible to have 2B worse than 3B when the worst fielding performance at 3B has been owned by Devers for 4 years straight?
Who cares where Verdugo plays? The team is heading for 65 wins and Verdugo’s position won’t change that. Vazquez and Bogaerts are the Red Sox best defenders since MOOKIE is gone and JBJ is gone and they aren’t elite they are above average. Devers is a butcher and nobody else is a standout so who cares where they play. Any team that allows Devers at 3B for 4 years when he proved he was the worst in baseball at that position EACH YEAR doesn’t really care about defense.
Why would a guy be worth more for the Red Sox who aren’t contending? That’s backwards as usual. If a team might win a ring, the value of the 2B might be higher. To a team on track for a sub .500 season, he’s worth far less than he is costing. This just goes to show EVERYONE that Bloom has no clue what he is doing. He came to Boston with a model that was to evaluate cost to value and when he believes Kiki’s value to cost ratio at $7M is over 1, there is a huge problem with the algorithm.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen…
Congrats Kike & Boston!
High energy, great versatile glove and good in a clubhouse.
Needs a chance to play everyday but is clutch!
Looking forward to seeing him I. A Yankee/Sox Sunday night game or 2 this year.
Congrats on the contract and new addition Kike!
I was never really a fan once he started swinging for the fences every at bat. He’s not a pure power hitter and doesn’t hit enough homers to justify his low BA and OBP.
It’s been a wacky winter in Boston. Need 6 pitchers? Sign a utility IF and a OBP-challenged OF. That evens things up.
They should try the deferral thing on BIg Sexy…..tho it better be a short time deferral…..
Yeah I agree it’s like they don’t really have a plan this off-season. Renfroe and Hernandez individually are decent signings. But when they have such obvious other needs I don’t really understand why you’d spend $10M+ on a super utility guy and a powerful but otherwise limited OF. Like I don’t have a problem with either signing… I just hope they also sign guys to fix the actual holes they have in the bullpen and possibly rotation. If they don’t and this is all the spending they do… then I find these 2 moves being their “big off-season acquisitions” to just be really strange. Like as if they don’t have a plan at all.
Don’t forget about their two other free agent signings in Martin Perez and Matt Andriese. They should help keep that ERA+ right around the 100 mark or maybe slightly lower than that. I’m really confused as to what Chaim is doing. Maybe a Benny trade is coming after all.
poverty contract
For people knocking this deal — I think you’re greatly undervaluing versatility. Not only does Kike play multiple positions well, he’s capable of playing up the middle. And, while I’m not saying he’s a great bat, at the very least, he’s shown flashes of productivity at the plate at times.
With that said, I am a bit surprised he got 2 for 14m though.
So he doesn’t s*ck at six positions. Hardly a ringing endorsement.
2/$14M with deferrals? Man, this market is crap.
Oh look they got their replacement for Mookie.
When you lose out to the Padres on Profar I guess this is what happens?
Can’t believe he got 7. Let’s be honest, the guy can’t hit.
More and more I think Chaim’s the fall guy for this org
Back Bay Rays!
Just so you’re aware, Kike has been a much better career hitter than Profar.
A glue guy. Great to have him on the squad. Thanks, Kike!
There’s been probably 20-30 posts in here referring to Kike as a utility player. I hope y’all realize that we have no 2B. Our sOPS+ at 2nd was 70, ranked 30th. And this wasn’t because we had a GG 2B that couldn’t hit.
Just to repeat, we had the worst hitting 2Bs, with weak gloves, and y’all don’t think Kike is starting?
Glad to hear the deal includes deferrals, but I’d rather it be incentive based.
Like, if this bum manages to collect a dozen hits a month.
Chavis should be starting. They’ve completely ruined a promising career and tanked his trade value
Chavis isn’t anything special. Kike isn’t a bum either. Kike is just here to be the stopgap for Downs at second base.
I don’t think Chavis is anything great either, but he’s a recent top 100 prospect who had a decent run when he first came up, and the sox have jerked him around all over the place.
I’d like to see them set him permanently at a position, leave him there for a bit to get acclimated/comfortable, and see what happens. Because I do believe he’s got hitting talent,.
Enrique seems like a complimentary piece on a playoff team,, which this is clearly not.
You’ll like Hernandez. Great guy.
I was also in favor of giving Chavis a shot, but so far, he’s been awful. He needs to be in AAA to figure out how to handle high-and-inside and low=and-outside.
He can’t hit them, and he can’t lay off them.
The best part of this signing is… Dodger Fans wont have to hear his horrible radio commercials anymore.
I don’t think Chavis is anything great either, but he’s a recent top 100 prospect who had a decent run when he first came up, and the sox have jerked him around all over the place.
I’d like to see them set him permanently at a position, leave him there for a bit to get acclimated/comfortable, and see what happens. Because I do believe he’s got hitting talent,.
Enrique seems like a complimentary piece on a playoff team,, which this is clearly not.
F I N A L L Y
This guy seems to bat .200 against the rest of the league and .400 against the Giants. Am happy to see him out of the division lol
I don’t get how he owned Bumgarner but he did.
Interesting signing. But pitching is still the biggest need for the Red Sox. Getting back to Hernandez defensively he’s probably a better OF’er than 2nd baseman.
The way I look at it is that we need improvements, and it won’t necessarily be in any particular area. The Pythagorean Theory pretty much dictates what your W/L record is. It is not completely linear, but ever run produced by hitting, or saved by better defense, counts about the same as a run saved by pitching.
That said, I expect the remainder of their budget to be spent on pitching. But 2B was still a need, depending on what we expect from Downs.
JoeBrady – hahahahaha the Pythagorean Theory.
Let’s start with the bastardized baseball version of the Pythagorean Theorem not Theory. It’s yet another modern metric that has no value. It’s predictive value sucks (as a few noted experts on it have already published ) and clearly the public hasn’t really grasped the concept. For you to quote it incorrectly is not surprising.
Some free advice. Stay out of the modern metrics. You have no comprehension of which are historical, predictive or to be used in comparing players. Predicting wins, once again, using any of the modern metrics has been sold as accurate yet the results show the contrary.
Think about this. Modern metrics suggested that Devers would not be the worst 3B in baseball in 2017. Then, after being the worst, modern metrics once again predicted in 2018 he wouldn’t be the worst. Once again, it was wrong. In fact, 4 straight predictions using modern metrics suggest all his defensive skills rate out as a near average fielder. Unfortunately, the after the fact data shows how incredibly wrong many modern metrics are at being predictive.
I give you credit for reading up on something and trying to talk to it intelligently. You missed but nice effort.
Good luck KiKi with the Red Sox and thank you for all your contributions to our 2020 World Series victory! You will always be a great and memorable Dodger! Farewell!
Amen
I don’t recall Sox fans getting too excited when they signed Mueller, Millar, and Ortiz. And getting plenty excited when they spent big bucks on Carl Crawford and Pablo Sandoval. Be patient folks. Team needs to rebuild, develop young players, find valuable bridge players with affordable contracts that can be easily flipped if necessary to bring in more young players.
KiKi was a joy & gave us so many dramatic big game heroics.Boston is getting a SoCal favorite.TY Brother GL
For a guy who didn’t hit for average, he seems to get more than his share of big hits. He’ll be missed here by Dodger fans
So, heres a few from a red sox watch every game/go to games/ have been following this team for years, and i mean YEARS long before 2004…
The media, fans etc arent trashing this guy, they are for good reason, mocking and making absolute fools of the red sox for this simple fact, that for more than 3 months since the season ended, this team has been the most least exciting, talked about or noticeable team , think of verbs like sad, pathetic, odd, weird, they all fit. Think about it, when have the red sox EVER been this quiet, im not talking about re hiring alex cora, that was literally done in 16 minutes, im talking about the absolute NOTHING they have done since well, really 2019 if you think about, they havent even been in the news from LOOSING players, signing, nothing, dead.. crickets, Were frustrated, while yes we get blooms ‘direction’ go young and build up, but hes signed( untill today) NOBODY, i mean, hell, he can get the Pirates 5th outfielder and that would atleast BE something they do, this team is gonna be so awful this year, the 1 true brightspot that will keep me watching is eduardo rodriguez, i absolutely love this guy and hes fully healthy from his heart covid condition, and ya, thats about it. After trading betts, which again, im talking about after that, If the vision is to get a semi decent farm system to GET a good player, ok, do it, do anything.. Im sry, but when the red sox are ONLY in the news for fenway park being a covid 19 vaccination site, you know theirs a problem. Again, the vision is no longer clear, you cant build from within and get prospects and be so futile and cheap and emotionless, regardless if the stadium is empty or full, every city deserves to watch a competitive team each night.
Hey, I was upset when the Red Sox traded Dick Stuart in 1964. but I got over it.
Having lived through terrible teams, terrible disappointments, and never wavering from rooting for the Red Sox, I can tell you it’s never been better. We will be fine.
I too get a kick out of our new fans. They think every team should win a WS every 4 years. We have been phenomenally successful since Henry bought the team.
How do you KNOW they will be awful this year? They have several all stars in the lineup and pitching will be healthier than last year. Over the last 20 years the Sox have usually done better with low expectations than high ones. There is absolutely no guarantee that if the Sox went out and spent a lot of money on free agents they would be any better off than allowing the young players to develop and fill in with temporary solutions in the meantime. Guys like Renfroe and Kiki may not have big names but they have talent. How’d Yankees do with big name signings like Stanton and Ellsbury in recent years? Be patient.
IMO, Kiki Hernandez and Jake Odorizzi Will be the best free agent signings of this off season.
This is a nice signing by the Red Sox, but it is hardly going to make them better than they were last year. So far I see no evidence that the front office wants to be better than last year.
They had to include deferrals on a $14 million contract?
When I saw the update this morning, I thought the same thing.
The Red Sox had to defer money from a $7 million per year contract.
I have to tell you, as a baseball fan for more than 40 years, that is probably the most ridiculous sentence I’ve read about the sport in a long time!
Repeat after me, ‘deferring money is good, not bad’.
Welcome to the Nation EH…
The only way this works for me is if he is our starting center fielder and then traded when Durran is ready to take over.
Are kiki and enrique the same person?
Yes, and so is Kike
F@CK the A’s owners! 29 years old. Plays everywhere. CLUTCH HITTER IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!! Better and cheaper than Semien, La Stella & Piscotty. 2/14??? I hate being an A’s fan
Better than Piscotty maybe, definitely would take the other two over him
I think Lastella is a better hitter but not nearly as good defensively and the overall value of Kike is just more. I’m not sure people understand the versatility of Kike. Dodger fans know this and most Dodger fans I know were sad to see him go. I think there is a good chance we look back at this signing and se what a steal it was for Boston.
This will be a good deal for the Red Sox. The man has the tools and will earn his money.
Is that ab overpay? When I heard Sox were interested I figured it would be on a major league minimum level salary.
Never saw anything special with this dude. Other than that awful stache he had.
Hate to see him go. He has come up in the clutch many times off the bench.
yeah and im dodger fan that’s a big fall for us and we lost joc
Give Jackie 4/40 and get this outfield set for the future. If the season proves unsuccessful you can always trade him (though I wouldn’t) because he drastically helps the pitching with his elite defense. You can also bring up Duran and having JBJ teaching him and Verdugo how to play in Boston. Trade Benny if needed and you’ll have the best defense ever! I also think he is settled in and going to be much better at the plate moving forward. Don’t give up on him!