The Phillies are among the clubs to have checked in recently on free-agent righty Jake Odorizzi’s asking price, MLB Network’s Jon Heyman tweets. He adds that the Angels have maintained some level of interest in the right-hander throughout free agency as well. There’s still no indication that Odorizzi is in serious talks with any individual team at this point.
It’s been a slow winter for Odorizzi, who was reported several weeks ago to be seeking a three-year pact worth around $15MM per year. A contract in that range would put the Phillies well north of the $210MM luxury tax threshold, as they’re currently about $8.5MM shy of that mark.
Given that proximity, it’s tough to see any match between the two sides without the Phillies exceeding the tax. That said, the penalty for surpassing the tax in 2021 wouldn’t be all that substantial for the Phillies — a 20 percent tax on their first $20MM worth of overages — and they’d quite likely dip back below the tax line in 2022 (assuming the system remains in place after another wave of collective bargaining talks). The Phillies will see Andrew McCutchen, Odubel Herrera and several others come off the books next year; their 2022 tax obligations are currently in the $133MM range.
As for the fit with Odorizzi specifically, there’s little denying that he’d be an upgrade in the middle of the Philadelphia staff. Odorizzi’s 2020 season was more or less wiped out by a series of non-arm injuries — an intercostal strain, a line-drive to the chest and a blister on his pitching hand — but his 2019 season was quite strong. He started 30 games and tallied 159 innings with the Twins, pitching to a 3.51 ERA with a career-best 27.1 percent strikeout rate against a strong 8.1 percent walk rate. That showing prompted the Twins to make a $17.8MM qualifying offer, which Odorizzi accepted over some multi-year interest at lower annual rates.
Aside from last year’s series of injuries, Odorizzi has been among the game’s most durable starters. From 2014-19, he averaged better than 30 starts and 165 innings per season, logging a combined 3.88 ERA and 4.20 SIERA with strikeout and walk rates that were a bit better than league average.
The Phillies, meanwhile, will open the year relying on a strong one-two punch of Aaron Nola and Zack Wheeler, with a solid Zach Eflin holding down the third spot on the staff. After that, top prospect Spencer Howard, the talented-but-inconsistent Vince Velasquez, and offseason signees Chase Anderson and Matt Moore will be the leading candidates to round things out. Howard struggled in his MLB debut last year but is still highly regarded. However, he also skipped Triple-A entirely and still has only six Double-A starts to his name, so the organization may feel he needs some more development time.
As for the Halos, they’re about $17MM shy of the luxury threshold, so there’s certainly room to add Odorizzi without crossing that threshold if that’s ownership’s goal. The Angels actually have a fairly deep mix of rotation options at this point, with Dylan Bundy, Andrew Heaney, Jose Quintana, Griffin Canning, Alex Cobb and Shohei Ohtani all likely to factor in early.
The Angels have been decimated by injuries in recent years, however, and that group of rotation options has some question marks within its ranks. Odorizzi certainly isn’t the ace for which Angels fans have clamored for the past few seasons, but he’d quickly become one of their top starting options were the two sides to strike a pact.
At this point, there’s no clear favorite for where Odorizzi will land. He has, at times, been connected to the Twins, Blue Jays, Giants and Red Sox (in addition to the two clubs listed here), but it’s a tough winter to be a mid-rotation starter on the market. Only four starting pitchers have agreed to multi-year deals: Trevor Bauer (Dodgers), Taijuan Walker (Mets), Mike Minor (Royals) and Chris Flexen (Mariners). Bauer was in his own class, of course, while Flexen is something of a unique case himself after a breakout showing in the KBO.
I’d feel more comfortable with Odorizzi on the mound than Cobb.
And with limited workloads this year a genuine six man rotation plus the occasional start by Ohtani would mean some actual depth.
Imagine having the best player in the world but can’t make the playoffs because of a GM who won’t spend some cash. Odorizzi would be good for you tho, and he would be out of NL East which is good for me
Our real GM, Arte Moreno, will spend plenty of cash but only on bats.
lol, explains taking Rendon from my Nats and not going after Cole.
To be fair, they did go after Cole. They just didn’t get him.
They also made a strong effort for Corbin too
@Luc2 Haven’t the Angels been paying Pujols $25+ M per year for the past 8 or so years?? Then there’s Rendon, Hamilton, and Upton. Angels have spent the cash, just not wisely.
Don’t forget Vernon Wells.
The worst trade in modern history (at the moment it happened). Im not exaggerating.
“Druggie Hamilton”
Pretty classless and insensitive comment
Andy – Not really, if you followed Hamilton at all. He was sober and chose to use again. His choice to use drugs ruined his career and broke up his family. He had all of the resources anyone would need to stay sober and he chose drugs over his career and family.
@prov, clearly you don’t see addiction as a disease. Modern medical models including the field of psychiatry view addiction as a disease like cancer or heart failure. You say “he chose……” but did the last person you know struggling with cancer “choose” to have the cancer come back after it was in remission for some time? Very few people (less than 10%) who struggle with addiction actually get sober and stay sober for the rest of their lives without relapses and going in/out. I work in this field and it is uninformed to view Hamilton’s issues as character issues. Just saying…
giant – when you’re sober and living your life, it’s a choice to use again, or associate with people who take you down that path, or go to locations that temp you, etc. If a sober drug user puts a meth pipe to his mouth after years of sobriety, that’s a choice. Cancer and other health issues are completely different. This is not the place to debate this issue. I have decades of experience with drug users so my opinion is not formulated in a vacuum..
You obviously do not understand addiction. No one “chooses” to relapse. No one chooses to be an addict.
I struggle with it daily. Regardless of how long you’ve been clean and/or sober every day is a fight. There are days that I didn’t even know I had a problem. Then there are others were, for no reason at all, it comes calling like a glass of water on a hot, dry day. It’s like rash, sometimes it comes and goes away on its own and other times it does not.
Don’t be so quick to characterize.
Glad you’re sober Spanky. As I explained to giant, I have decades of experience working with drug addicts so I have not been quick to characterize. Again, not the place to debate the issue. Thought your comment warranted a response though. God Bless.
I won’t go that far, for the most part I am, but I have my movements. For the most part,. I have a different “stage” of addiction. For example, I don’t drink hard alcohol and haven’t had any for 12 years. I quit smoking 5 years ago (Hats off to anyone who has quit smoking, hardest thing I have ever done).
I love beer though. All the while I won’t even think of driving impaired and can limit my beers while out or even not drink one at all. However, I can sit home and polish off a 12 pack with the neighbors like no one’s business.
When they say addiction has many forms, they aren’t lying. It is a strange animal.
Thank you for the kind thoughts though. Kindness is not something that should be overlooked and is extremely lacking in this world.
Spanky – You’re welcome.
Philippians 4:13 says “I can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens me.” I have relied on that verse during tough times throughout my life. Maybe you can too.
@Prov I choose empathy and compassion instead of insensitive comments like “druggie Hamilton”. As someone who states that they have decades of experiences with drug users, I find it odd and concerning that you don’t see a problem with comments like that.
And yes, I have followed Hamilton’s career and his struggles
I am almost 4 years sober. I can relate as I have relapsed quite a few times. I’m not cured. I never will be. All I have is a daily reprieve.
I would never mock anyone with comments such as the one expressed.
And to be honest, you can have all the resources and support you need but that won’t make a damn of difference if you don’t surrender to the disease. And it is a disease
Congrats on your 4 years sobriety Andy.
Thank you
And all that is is just more stigma of addiction. That nonsense of “try harder” or “make better choices”. Makes it a lot harder for people to seek help and address the issues when some in society clearly don’t understand when they choose to say insensitive and hurtful things
I must be from New York.
I come from a neighborhood where alcoholism ran amuck. We’d all know some older guys that we knew were in AA. And that’s how it was thought of at the time-an old person’s disease.
One of my brother’s friends, who was a real good athlete and popular guy, went into the program at age 18. It was only within a few years that a couple of other friends also went into the program (as did my roommate).
I think the initial kid going in saved lives. Once he went in, the conversation seemed more reasonable for other young kids. it was kind of like you went from group A to group B, and no one paid any attention.
My brother NA saved my life. I cannot say I live or do thd cleanest program, but without NA, God, the readings, books, sponsors, rooms, (zoom), friends and or family. Where would you or tf would I effen be? I love NA and I love God. Also love the steps and hey man from one member too another keep coming back. We can do this. Ttyl
Luc 2
can’t make the playoffs because of a GM who won’t spend some cash.
=====================================================================
Once again, the GM doesn’t create the budget. The owner does.
Secondly, the Angels have spent plenty of money. They just haven’t spent is wisely. Were you one of those fans who applauded the acquisition of Wells, Pujols, Hamilton, Upton, etc.?
Yeah ik I realized that but didnt want to fix. I applauded Upton I think because he was good at the time. That aged well
The Angels problem has never been about not spending (Pujols, Trout x2, Wells, Wilson, Upton, Hamilton, etc.) In fact it’s the complete opposite, they haven’t been able to draft, IFA sign, and develop players to save their life.
brandon – the problem is two fold. First, Moreno is more likely to spend on a bat than an arm. Second, although we have had some hefty contracts as you pointed out (mostly bats), Moreno has not increased overall payroll above an average of 180m for a decade. He will spend big on a player, as long as there is room within his personal budget. So historically under Moreno, the problem is about spending on the right player given his personal spending limit.
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al…
Im, a broken record. Its because hes cheap when. it comes to staffing (see furloughs. scouting team size, investment in international scouting). The only thing in common with the top teams is cheap talent.
Until the 1910s looking villain invests in an elite and large development org, were just ognna have to rely on. luck to get Trout to the promised land.
Exactly. No team can truly compete without home grown talent. The fact Arte will shell out $125 million for Hamilton the same year he cuts international scouting and signings is evidence the man just doesn’t get it.
Next year the Angels are set to have 4 holes in the rotation with only 1 likely replacement (Detmers) and a few hopefuls (Barria, Suarez, Rodriguez). No team can keep plugging that many jokes from free agency each year.
This narrative is tiring
Is it?
Make it happen! I think Odorizzi gives the Phillies a real solid rotation with some backend depth. It would be the icing on the cake of a really good offseason. The Phillies can then trade VV to free up some space and $.
That being said, I think this is a bit far-fetched. Phillies are likely not going over the tax in a division where they can potentially come in last place. Odorizzi also has many suitors. So this is tough for me to see happening, but I hope it does.
Dude wtf happened, yall were poor now you guys are getting FA’s lol. Must have a generous donor lol, good for you. DD working magic
Once they brought in DD, everything changed.
I mean it makes sense. I wouldn’t want to open up the purse strings from Klentak to waste any more money either.
DD’s real genius is convincing owners to spend the necessary money to go from having a decent club to having a top-tier club.
And I am sincere about that. Too many owners spend plenty of money, but then let their teams languish. I have no objection to teams being cheap when rebuilding. But someone needs to slap these guys in the back of the head and tell them that they are wasting $170M, when for $40M more, they can have a legit contender.
it was a matter of perception. fans around here acting like Middton keeping his cards close meant he was going to sell off players with no real proof.
@Darkside I will say that I was all doom and gloom and fell for the “we are broke” routine. You did not. So props to you.
rationale was all 30 owners were probably saying that, and someone had to sign the FA’s eventually.
That would be a really nice rotation in Philly, no doubt. Would likely put them right in the mix in that very tough division, able to compete every night.
“Phillies are likely not going over the tax in a division where they can potentially come in last place.”
No better reason to spend, @Von.
Ya know?
The tax amount at a 20% rate is a pittance. Maybe ~ million bucks. Which – I get it – is real money.
But: the NL East seems to be like the only division in MLB where all of the teams are actually trying to be good.
Odorizzi is good for what he is. I’ve seen him throw in the AL East for years. Saw him when he came out here.
He’s just simply a Very Good midrotation starter. I get it. Not the sexiest of profiles. Still an asset, however.
He’d help pretty much any team in the bigs. But I think he’d be especially helpful in Philly.
@Ducky I’m with you, and hopefully the Phillies FO agrees.
@ducky @VonPurpleHayes I’m with you both. Odirizzi makes that rotation absolutely solid that can go against pretty much any MLB team with a chance to win every night. The way this team can score runs and the reworking of the BP., Odirizzi could be that last piece that takes them from a predicted 4th place to a WC spot. That’s easily worth the million bucks in the fees. If fans make it back into the stands they will make that back and then some.
@Von –
Of course you are lol!
We’ve talked about this. To me, if the Phillies are even contemplating Odorizzi, they should pull the trigger. That implies the money is “there”, uh?
Plus, as a baseball fan, it’s just good. I wanna see an absolute blood bath in the NL East.
None of those clubs are patsies, man.
The AL East should be an interesting scrum between the Yankees, Blue Jay’s, & Ray’s. But the competition drops way off from there (insert generic, obligatory shot at the red sox here).
From my perspective, Philadelphia has done enough to remain relevant. You guys are like my Yanks in some ways, though. Most important being both teams could really use some/more rotation stability.
Can’t lie.
Wish the Yanks were in on him.
Plus you guys have Didi & Joe G.
So.
How could any decent Yankee fan not wish that club the best. Ya know? It’s basically obligatory at this point.
Look, I’m much more of a Yankee fan than an MLB fan. But I’ll probably go out of my way to catch a Phillies game or two.
Well-deserved shot at the Red Sox, but I think they are still a good fit for him. Why not at this point? Everyone in the rotation is a question mark. Whats one more right? His 6.26 ERA over 46 innings at Fenway and 5.40 in about the same innings at Yankees Stadium should be a big concern for the Yankees and the Red Sox though in signing him. He pitched much better against the Central and West teams in general, even logging a solid sub-3.00 ERA in Arlington over 3 starts and 18.2 innings. I was thinking maybe it was the ballpark but it doesn’t get much friendlier then Arlington (doesn’t look he has any starts at Coors).
@fenwayfaithfuldevilsfan –
Gotta take ’em where I can get ’em.
I guess I’m pretty surprised at the way the sox conducted their off-season. Figured they’d come out firing this winter & spend their way back into contention.
I was absolutely expecting them to be in the pennant race.
I know way better than to count that club out based on a previous season’s last place – or otherwise – finish.
Weird that they’ve just…I dunno… kinda given up.
Ya know?
its not the one year penalty that concerns Middton, its the fact that it gets worse going over consecutive years. I believe he didnt want to start until this year going into 2020, but the pandemic threw a curveball and the 2020 team flopped, so he wanted to wait until 2022 to go ever instead.
Which I’m not insensitive to, @darkside.
Taxes suck lol.
BS taxes even more so, uh?
But I’m from the “ya gotta spend money to make money” school of thought. The tax – as such – would be under $2MM. If we go off MLBTR’s prediction. When a playoff series is worth ~ 20 mil to a MLB franchise I start questioning the fiscal logic.
Ya know?
@Ducky: “But: the NL East seems to be like the only division in MLB where all of the teams are actually trying to be good.”
I’m not so sure the Marlins are trying particularly hard. If they actually do well this season, I’ll retract this, but I could easily see them winning 75 or fewer games this year.
That might be true, but playing Devils advocate, that may only be because of the division they play in, not so much their talent as a club.
The NL East appears to be the most competitive and talented division top to bottom and p-laying the likes of the Phillies, Mets, Braves, and Nats 19 times each is no easy task.
They may only win 75, but that could easily be 83 in almost any other division.
I believe the NL East is that good and could yield 3 playoff teams.
@rct, The Guppies have a very young very talented team..they just lack experience…I expect Sixto to be everything we all thought he would be..
@rct –
75 wins in the deepest division in MLB would pretty much make my point, though.
Sure the Marlins are a step back from the Phillies, Nationals, & mets whom are all a step back from Atlanta. No argument here. Or with Las Vegas, for that matter.
Jeter has a little something going on down there, though. Figures, right?. & they’ve at least tried to get better this winter. Modestly so, for sure. But it’s now quite a ways from actively trying to lose.
Ya know?
So I really think “not a patsy” & “trying” are fair. Seems like the only thing really holding them back from a winning record is the division they play in.
5th place? More than likely. But they’ll probably be a pain in the butt for the rest of the NL East.
If they sign Odorizzi I do not see them placing lower than 3rd. Other than the Braves, they have the most depth in the division. I believe if they make this signing that they are a playoff team. That might as well go for it now. They don’t really have the prospect captial to add an arm of this caliber during the season.
as a Phillies fan I would love this signing but my guess is the Phillies checking in was to see if he would take a one year deal for less than $10M. and BTW, the market for VV is pretty miniscule. you would probably get a very low level guy for him or someone with a similar salary who also hasn’t produced at the major league level.
If 0dorizzi would take that deal, the Phillies would be better off giving him two years and back loading it to stay under the threshold.
Clearly the Phils would be a better team with Odorizzi…I hope the team can pull that off..he would most likely slide in right behind Eflin..In. fact, when you look at things, the Phillies would have a very good rotation..strong even……non of this would have happened under Klentak..clearly Dave has had an impact already..let’s hope John Middleton gives Dombrowski the okay..
Agreed. What this would also do is allow Spencer Howard some time at LHV to continue to develop. It can’t be overstated that he completely jumped AAA last year.
Some more seasoning in LHV and he can be the first man up in the event of an injury. The Odirizzi thing makes way too much sense for DD not to do it.
Some of the writers were critical of the Seattle CEO for suggesting that Kelenic won’t start the year with the team (owing to the fact that most writers automatically side with the player). My thoughts were that Kelenic is barely a AA player, albeit with great potential.
AA & AAA are still there for a reason. And, if they do as you say, not only might it help Spencer’s development, it might help reset the clock.
2020’s greatest error was the pen, but it was almost everyone relying too hard to Howard. assuming he was ready with little high minors play was never a good idea.
For me, it’s not so much about the clock as it is Howard’s development. It’s like anything else, if he is overwhelmed it can mess with his confidence and get in his head.
Developing a little longer at AAA may be just the thing for him to fine tune his pitches and gain the confidence that he can not only compete, but win eventually at the MLB level..
I even think back to when Brett Myers and Hector Neris went down to LHV to get straightened out and the success they had upon returning (albeit it briefly).
Here’s the thing Joe, you can’t say he needs development time when A. He was told he’d have been in the major in 2020 if he had signed “multiple times”. B. The CEO says no matter how good he does in ST he will be sent down YET he will be up in the majors within 4 weeks
It’s not development. You can’t claim he needs 3 weeks of development time, after having told the player he could have been up the prior year, and not get called out for your BS
Your takes are especially horrible lately
Pay the tax Phillies
Sign Odorizzi, trade Odubel’s contract with Vinnie Velo and they can probably get under the tax.
Do you want Tony Watson Matt Joyce and Brandon Kintzler? because that’s another 9 million dollars.
Kintzler and Watson yes. So thats 6. Also Odo could take deferred money like the Phils did with JT and Didi. Not outside the realm of possibility.
Watson and Kintzler should make the roster. I don’t see Joyce making the roster if they go with a 4 man bench
ML teams are limited to 13 pitchers at one time, and there are 26 man rosters now. So … 8 players in the starting lineup, 5 man bench.
With those 3 factored in they’d be about $9 million short of the tax.
I don’t think that they can trade both of them. Teams may be interested in VV, but there’s no way anyone would want Herrera
Your on crack if you think anyone is taking Odubels contract for what he did. That is so delusional
They will if a prospect or MLB ready arm is sent with the contract. You are delusional if you think no one will take that contract for the right package. Let’s stop acting like odubel us the first player to be suspended for a crime and return.
After the Mather thing I don’t think its a good idea for a team to trade for Odubel now with his past. Maybe in a few months, but definitely not now. Also how do you think players in the other club will feel about their GM.
I bet the Yankees would take him, they love wife beaters on that roster!
Agreed. Herrera is only at mini-camp (have to emphasize mini-camp by the way) because the collective bargain agreement ensures that he gets a second chance. Otherwise he would have been cut by now. No one is touching him in a trade, but I’ll also say he’s not too far removed from his All-Star Season. There’s talent there, but between some question fundamentals and more importantly his awful past-behavior off the field, he’s not a valuable trade chip.
agreed
Shatkins please step up so the jays can half a bit of a rotation
Ever thought these men that are rich don’t want bad taxes. If he got a Ryu contract I bet he would sign, but that’s not happening.
I’m amazed the Phillies are so close to the luxury line. How did y’all do that while still having such an average team?
Lol, one answer. PITCHING, it sucks, but they have mad some improvements. Bradley was their only reliable pickup. Alvarado has talent but never has never shown it for a long span of time. Kintzler and Watson are old so they could easily become trash, but they were good cheap pickups.
Some bad deals and underperforming players. I’m not talking about Harper either. Cutch and Segura come to mind. Big fan of both, but they’re overpaid for what they’re providing. Injuries have been a major issue as well. Back to back late season collapses eliminated hot starts in 19 and 20. DS was brought in to fix this mess and I like what he’s done on paper. They finally have some depth, but they’re behind the Braves and Mets for sure. Many think the Nats too.
*DD not DS
Historically bad bullpen. An average to somewhat good pen they take the NLE. Pay attention, or don’t comment on teams/situations you know nothing about.
This is an opportunity a team like the Pirates should jump on immediately. Offer to take the contract of Herrera off their hands, along with getting Velazquez or prospects and maybe just release him immediately. Or even bring back Cutch to save them money and do a little fan service but the Phils probably need him.
Philly fans tell mi if im wrong: Nola, Wheeler, Odorizzi (IF), Eflin, VV, and one of those vets. Im think Wheeler is overrated, but he can prove wrong with a good full season. Odorizzi is a good 3. The rest of the rotation is kinda scary IMO.
With Odorizzi, we have a better rotation than the nationals… Wheller Nola is better than Strasburg and Corbin and if your telling my 99yr man Max Scherzer is better than Odorizzi or Eflin your crazy let alone the back of your rotation Eric Fedde and John Lester **shivers** is not nearly as good as one of Odorizzi/Eflin and Matt More/ Chase Anderson
What are you even talking about?
I think the Phillies rotation gets overlooked. Backend depth is still a major weakness, but that top 3 is real good. Wheeler looked amazing last year, albeit in a shortened season. Eflin really took some strides turning himself into a solid #3. Nola is an ace despite what some Phillies fans say, but his late-season struggles in back to back years are a concern. A better bullpen may go a long way to fixing starter fatigue. Phillies don’t have the depth of other rotations in the division, but that top 3 is real strong.
before someone complains I meant Wheeler, not Wheller (the Second time that has happened to me on here)
Your an idiot to think age is a problem for max, it will be for Nola. Look at dominant pitcher likes Verlander and Kershaw. Also the old heads were affected terribly by no spring training in 2o2o especially Stephen because he has a schedule, but of course you don’t know that. Corbin is better than Wheeler, Wheeler had a good 11 starts. Also Corbin was roughed up in a short stretch of 2019 and yet he was so good. SO sit your ass down and talk when you have a good rotation. Odorizzi isn’t even on the team yet Also how is your backend better than ours, you are relying on washed vets and young trash
Sensitive much? I guess having a fourth place team will do that to you.
Lol you can’t say anything you haven’t accomplished anything in the last 10 years. You guys have been last for ever. I guess thats what happens when you think your good
Oh man, Luc 2, Did you not see how bad the Nats rotation was last year? with a healthy Corbin and Scherzer, Wheeler has been a better pitcher than Corbin his whole career… Nola is now better than Scherzer with age catching up to Scherzer… Strasburg is coming off a significant injury while Eflin is just getting better.. I’m sorry you have no farm system… but John Lester is 10x more washed up than Matte More and Chase Anderson and well Fedee, Fedee just sucks man, and we may have gone through a long ass rebuild do get where we are now but you will be having once shortly talk to me when you have a Spencer Howard in your minor league system before you can say “young trash” dude he’s not even going to start in the majors… Luc, please stop being a biased B- and sthu, thanks!
Matt More* and in “we may have gone through a long ass rebuild do get where we are now” I meant to not do. Just to get the people who like to become English teachers out of my face! As I am well aware no Spring training may have hurt some older players which I know… we lost Arrieta down the stretch FYI.
Did you not read, Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin are vets. They need ST to get their bodies. Strasburg said thats what ed to the injury. How is lester more washed than Anderson and Moore. Moore hasnt pitched. Strasburg did not have a major injury . Nola has had one good full season and Max was better than him that year. Fedde isn’t even guaranteed to start. He was still better than VV look at baseball reference. I never said Howard was young trash. I hope you know your biased to so yeah. Thanks! Lets leave this here and see how the season plays out
Ok, now you’re just being an idiot … Let me run some numbers by you, and then you can explain how Max was better than Nola from BASEBALL REFERENCE!! Let’s start with the era… Nola: 3.28 and then there is Max: 3.74… Let’s check K’s Per 9 Max… 67 innings/92 K’s and then there is Nola.. 71 innings and 96 k’s… Nola finished 7th in cy young voting oh what Scherzer wasn’t even top ten??? aw. All pitchers need spring training to get ready for the season… being older ain’t an excuse. Luc your not very factual go be a writer for a News network maybe Fox News or CBS would fit you well since your always unfactual!
I said 2018 smh. Nah I run with CNN. Im not that dumb, I know Nola was better than Max in 2020, And yes ST is very important, the fact you don’t know that as a baseball fan is troubling. Read this article. Some pitchers have different routines, Stephen and Max have very particular one, and age does matter because at that age they can’t adjust right away.
bleacherreport.com/articles/2932827-stephen-strasb…
Nats are one Stras injury away from another wasted year. I firmly believe that.
Yeah, and I personally think the Phillies will miss the playoffs to do lack of pitching upgrades. And the Nats will be better
Both will be behind the Mets imo
Obviously, your a Mets fan saying that. I could definitely see that tho but ofc I think my Nats will may make the 2nd WC. I rly want a Mets vs Nats WC, or NLDS
Maybe. We’ll see.
You run with CNN? that explains it all….
AT least I don;t run with Fox. I dont watch fake news
That, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call triggered. Calm down kid, ain’t nobody taking your WS title from you.
I actually think wheeler is more underrated than overrated for a guy who’s 3.53/1.19 last three seasons, and whose hard/soft contact peripherals and babip suggest he could be even better
He would certainly improve the Angels staff by at least putting pressure on the other starters to earn a spot. The odd man out would be a nice bullpen/ insurance pitcher.
I agree
I would say there is no way the Phillies are going over the tax at this point. Maybe at the trade deadline if they are close. However, I would say get it done DD, Trade VV and trade Kingery to the Reds to play SS. Watson and Kintzler need to make the team as well. Send a decent prospect with Odubel somewhere and that should create plenty of room.
Amazing how much the game has changed that an average of 30+ starts with 165IP makes for a “one of the games” most durable starters”. Not knocking the pitcher, but the consensus on usage is so different than even 10 years ago.
I’d like the Angels to give Odorizzi the three year deal backloaded with year one at 12m and year two at 15m and year three at 18m. That keeps his AAV at 15m. Then extend Bundy by the break if he can duplicate 2020 numbers.
I’d pass on Orodizzi if I were the Phillies. VV is going to be stretched out in the spring but will work in a multi-inning relief role unless there’s injuries. Girardi will use VV to piggyback the back end guys. Nola, Wheeler, Eflin, Moore, Anderson is their starting 5 with Spencer Howard starting the season at Lehigh, and Adonis Medina in line to get starts at some point this season as well. If they are going to bring in another starting pitcher that will keep them from going over the luxury tax threshold, sign Cole Hamels at 1/6-7mil. We need another lefty and the fanbase would be ecstatic.
6-7 isnt going to keep them under because chances are at least two NRI RPs are making the team.
Can’t touch Cole for more than 2m. The guy is near done. Love him, but it’s over. Odorizzi is a much better option.
id still like to trade VV and Quinn and then see if Odo could be had for about the same to keep us cap neutral
@DarkSide this is the move right here.
The Jays better sign this guy.
These team owners have got to stop with the fake “tax” argument. As stated in the article, the 1st year penalty would be minimal. However, the part being left out is that “potential” year 2 and 3 penalties will never happen. After 2021 a NEW CBA must be negotiated. The current penalties and “tax” systems are probably not going to exist. Sure the owners want to keep it, but the players loathe the system. We are headed to a complete reset of the current rules. So stop using the bs “tax” as the excuse for not signing players.
if its meerly an excuse then what’s the purpose of the tax to begin with?
@Metsie another key point is the Phils have more money off the books in 2022. So paying the tax this year doesn’t mean it’ll be an ongoing problem. I still think Odorizzi is a long shot, but the Phils should be in on him, and I think he really moves the needle in their favor.
Any number of teams, including the Phillies, would be helped by signing this guy. Philllies, Jays, Angels etcetera. He is better than some teams 2 or 3 starter. Yet, here we are, ST has begun and no one has signed him. Too many teams don’t want to compete.
how ya doin miss? Been a Long time..should be a fun year in the NLE
The winner of the NL east could win 88-90 games and still be better than an 100 win team.
I can see the Orioles’s signing him…..on 2027
DD is a winner. He’s showing the city of Philadelphia he intends to win a competitive division. Fans should be happy he is there, for better or worse.
If, and I do mean if Dombrowski is able to get Odorizzi, then yes, it would give Howard some additional time to work on his skill set..But, keep in mind, he will still get plenty of work at the ML level..Most teams go thru a snootful of pitchers each season. The Phils won’t be any different..it is why you can never have enough arms.. The best thing that could happen to this team would be if the starters can go into the 6th inning and take the stress off the pen….
Regardless of his personal choices, let’s keep to performance on the field. Imagine if it was that he was bankrupt, he had an illness, it wouldn’t be mentioned. We need to stop pulic shaming people with addiction issues, it doesn’t help anyone.
Get it done
3 years and 45 million for Odorizzi seems reasonable to me.
I dunno? That might be a bit high, this is why he’s still on the market. Throw out last year’s virtually missed down year. His previous 3 year average is a little above a 4 ERA… I’d say 3/36m and both sides might be happy. His leverage is running out.
at 3/36, if I’m Middleton. . .check is written.
It appears teams are more concerned with the length, not the dollars. I’d bet he gets his 15m if it were for 1 year.
Phillies need to sign Odorizzi.. Luxury tax hit is just for 1 year and that wouldn’t be much.
The difference he’d make in the rotation would be a huge improvement though, well worth the salary if he does as he is supposed to.
I agree, the Phills might make more sense over the Angels, even thou the Angels can squeeze him in under the tax. Both could use the upgrade, but the Phills need the depth in the rotation more. He would just add yet another #3 type SP to the Angels, which almost all of them are projected to be.
That said, I can see the Jays as a very good fit for him. Shoot, they have the most cap space, and with the need.
@SwingtheFNbat The Jays are who I would think will land Odorizzi with the Angels and Phillies being about a decent bit below them. It doesn’t sound like he’s received any big offers yet though.
Man, I know it’s all relative, but it feels weird to call a pitcher who has only reached 170+ innings in a season once durable, haha.
Regardless, Odorizzi’s a solid arm — definitely would be a worthwhile investment for Philly.
I agree that Odorizzi is the best starting pitcher available, but would also take a look at Rick Porcello, who is 1 yr. older, than Odorizzi, at age 32, has the next highest WAR, at 3.4, plus former Cy Young Award Winner, and also knows Dombrowski, from his days in Boston. He could probably be had for less $, than Odorizzi, as well.
Plus, Porcello is a Jersey Boy, and signing with the Phil’s, could be the ” lure”, to bring him home.
Spotrac puts them at 11.4 tax space. They could have not signed Brad Miller for 3.5M and shipped out Velasquez to free up space for Jake from State Farm.
Porcello or Hamels on a low risk one-year deal would be interesting. Hamels could teach Eflin his changeup and how to stop tipping that pitch.