The Brewers were known to be one of the teams linked to Justin Turner’s market, and Milwaukee still has interest in Turner even after signing Kolten Wong, FanSided’s Robert Murray tweets. A deal with Turner may be something of a longshot at this point, as Murray notes that the Dodgers are still considered the favorites for the third baseman, and The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal writes that the Brewers are just “on the periphery of the bidding for Turner.”
Still, the Brew Crew might see an opportunity to strike given the overall lack of action by NL Central teams this winter. Milwaukee has a projected payroll of just under $92MM for the coming season, and signing Turner for something in the ballpark of a $13MM average annual value wouldn’t put the Brewers far beyond the $102MM they were projected to spend last season prior to the prorated salary reductions for the 60-game schedule. If necessary, president of baseball operations David Stearns could also look to swing some trades to create a bit of extra payroll space either before or during the season. While some creativity may be required, it isn’t as far-fetched as it may seem that the Brewers could still pry Turner away from more free-spending suitors like the Dodgers or Blue Jays.
More from the NL Central…
- Speaking of Wong, reports throughout the offseason indicated the Cardinals were ready to move on after declining their $12.5MM club option on his services back in October, and Wong confirmed as much in a recent chat with reporters (including Rick Hummel of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch). The second baseman said the Cardinals “talked here and there” with his representatives “but it wasn’t much, kind of checking in, feeling things out. We never really engaged.” By contrast, “the Brewers were on me at the beginning ]of the offseason]….I just felt like a top priority. They made it feel like home.” Several teams were linked to Wong throughout the winter but the Brewers ended up landing the two-time Gold Glover for a two-year contract worth $18MM in guaranteed money.
- Sean Doolittle also spoke with reporters (including Jesse Dougherty of the Washington Post) about his own free agent experience, which concluded when he signed a one-year, $1.5MM deal with the Reds last week. Cincinnati was in touch with Doolittle early in the free agent process and he ended up choosing them amongst a few suitors, though Doolittle admitted that he held out hope for much of the winter that he would end up re-signing with the Nationals. There were some negotiations between Doolittle and the Nats but once Washington signed Brad Hand in late January, Doolittle began to pivot to other teams.
- The arbitration hearing between Jack Flaherty and the Cardinals took place on Friday, Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports, so a decision should be coming any time about Flaherty’s 2021 salary. The right-hander is looking for $3.9MM, while the Cards countered with a $3MM figure. While this is Flaherty’s first year of arbitration eligibility, Goold observes that this is actually the third straight year of some salary-related contention between the two sides, as the Cardinals renewed Flaherty’s pre-arb contracts in each of the previous two seasons after Flaherty didn’t agree to the team’s figure as a matter of “principle.” Goold writes that Flaherty and the Cards came within $300K of agreeing to a deal prior to the arbitration deadline, and continued to have talks even leading up to the hearing. This would seemingly imply that a contract extension was being discussed, since St. Louis otherwise wouldn’t re-open negotiations after the arb deadline due to the team’s “file and trial” strategy for arbitration cases.
depressedtribefan
RIP Pedro Gomez
Orel Saxhiser
It’s surprising how some of these hit harder than others. Of all the recent baseball deaths, this is among the toughest for me.
Black Ace57
Yeah I know what you mean. Roy Halladay hit me hard because it was an accident and he was still so young and had a family. RIP Pedro Gomez.
ChiSoxCity
Accident?
machumizer
When something happens that wasn’t intended, its called an accident. All you idiots that think a guy who’s shoulder blew off being on painkillers is a crime can blow. Thats a non story, i wasnt surprised to hear that and im sure if he was constantly on them it wouldn’t affect him in the same way it would lil timmy trying them for a high.
Dock_Elvis
I have to admit I didn’t know who he was. He’s been on ESPN these years when I’ve done all but ignore that channel. Seems like he was well loved. We’ve had way too much loss in our personal lives, and in baseball. Too young.
Gothamcityriddler
Asked just before the game if the Super Bowl is the ultimate game, Duane Thomas replied “If it’s the ultimate game, how come they’re playing it again next year?”
Rangers29
The Dodgers were scary when they were ran like the 190 million dollar Rays, but they’re even scarier when they just disregard the LT. I don’t like them, but man are they a well run organization… envy.
Orel Saxhiser
It’s not total disregard. Look for another major move to happen really soon, maybe even two. No inside info; just an educated sense that something is up (to be followed by groans in San Diego, Atlanta, and Flushing Bay). Andrew Friedman is not done assembling his 2021 opening-day roster.
Rangers29
Oh I could definitely see that happening. I think of them as the Rays with 150 million extra dollars to play with. That thought scares me, and if they do go out and make another move… I tell you what… they might get close to Seattle’s all time win record. That team is SUPERB, and the only thing holding them back from reaching Seattle’s record is the Padres. A new 3B is coming. Kris Bryant.
Orel Saxhiser
The team last year was better than the 106-win team from 2019. Personnel-wise, the 2021 team that starts the season figures to be better than the 2020 squad, Turner or not. A bunch of stars in their prime and talented young players who figure to get better. It was only 60 games, but no one in ’20 was playing at a career-year pace except Pollock with the home runs. Muncy, Bellinger, and Buehler had down regular seasons, as did the departed Joc.
Re 2019: I believe that had Verdugo not been hurt, they would have beaten the Nats in October and won it all. A reminder that no championship is guaranteed no matter how a roster seems to be stacked.
Rangers29
Yes, very true. A lack of depth comes back to bite. Especially in pitching. That’s why I personally like the Mets’ chances so much right now, and that is partially because of their pitching depth. Yamamoto and Lucchesi together are way more valuable to that team rather than Brad Hand (not because Hand is bad, but because their pitching depth will pay dividends in the future).
Talking about seemingly little occurrences that make a big difference, look at the “rain outs” we’ve seen in WS last decade. You could’ve had two different WS winners last decade strictly because of rain outs. The Rangers in 2011 and the Indians in 2016. Both teams suffered at the hands of it (and it didn’t even rain for one of those teams!!). Crazy how little things like that come back to bite so easily. Mark down Verdugo’s absence on that list as well.
Orel Saxhiser
I like the Braves by a comfortable margin in that division. A well-constructed ballclub with organizational depth and some incredible talent. This will be the big breakout year for Ozzie Albies. Him being the 10th ranked 2B in those mlb.com rankings was weird. Best 2B in the game, in my opinion. By October, there won’t be any doubt about it.
A key will be Soroka’s health. He is my favorite pitcher to watch. A true master despite his age who understands how to keep the hitters off-strider and the pitch-count down. If I could start a team with one NL pitcher, he’d be my guy. If healthy, of course.
Ya know what was weird? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think there were any extra-inning games in last year’s post-season.
Lanidrac
How exactly did the Rangers “suffer” from the 2011 rainout? Yes, it hurt their chances by allowing the Cardinals to bring back Chris Carpenter on short rest to win Game 7, but I don’t get how they directly suffered from it.
Rangers29
Yeah, I don’t remember extra innings at all last off-season… Maybe the Astros did it once? I forget, but it must’ve been one of those weird occurrences.
Yes, the Soroka’s of the world are who I follow as a pitcher. That downward plane he works off of is so effective. Right now I have a change-up, splitter, and 4-seamer. All three of them have hardly any horizontal movement. My thought is that I can repeat my motion easily and the arm speed/grip is the same for each pitch. That screws with hitters. I want the hitter’s reaction time to be very low when I pitch. No tipping, you gotta just watch the ball. One pitch falls 16 inches, one dives 6 inches, and one glides through at a half inch of drop. I want to be repetitive and deceptive without creating an unsustainable delivery. Soroka hits all of those notes right on the head.
MasterShake
Braves-Reds game 1 went into extras and Atlanta didn’t squeeze a run in until Bauer came out.
RunDMC
Game 1 – 13 innings. Set the tone for the short series.
brandons-3
Isn’t the MLB.com thing the shedder? I don’t think it took into account that Albies played most of last year with a hurt wrist and even missed a chunk of time trying to get it under control. That’s the issue with some analytics in my opinion; they don’t account for human-element stuff like injuries.
I do agree we haven’t seen the best of Albies. If he can change his approach to be less of a home run guy, and just make hard contact, I think he could win a batting title.
larry48
Albies did not show up in playoffs, you never ever heard his name hardly
Mjshof
Spot on Rangers29. LAD are flexing their financial muscle, but doing it in a focused / disciplined way – huge AAV, but incredibly short FA contract length which meshes with the time three years ahead when key players hit FA and will cost $$$.
They are adding to a position of strength in SP knowing that a 60 game season and potential covid driven interruptions will impact innings limits and availability of individual players.
34679
I don’t know what a gold glove 2B with a team friendly option would have brought in return at the last trade deadline, but it definitely isn’t nothing.
Lanidrac
Why would a team still well in contention trade away a valuable starting player at the trade deadline? Without having Wong for the whole (abbreviated) season, the Cardinals probably wouldn’t have made the playoffs last year. That’s worth quite a bit more than they would have gotten for him in a trade.
They again, such a boneheaded move isn’t completely unprecedented. *cough* Tommy Pham *cough*
34679
It seems they feel confident Edman can fill Wong’s shoes. I doubt their assessment of either player has changed much since the deadline.
Lanidrac
They needed Edman to play mostly 3B and OF last year. Furthermore, they were able to save and/or reinvest the money they saved from Wong this offseason, which isn’t something they could’ve easily done just by trading him away at last year’s deadline.
larry48
Why does Pham keep being traded is he a problem in the clubhouse or a bad attitude.
EndinStealth
He is.
dmarcus15
Wong hit .260 is the reason remember they cards won a WS with Skip Shumacker playing second.
EndinStealth
Team friendly? There wasn’t a team in baseball that would have signed him for 12.5 million.
Pauly2112
Reds seem like a natural fit for Doolittle more than any other team. Ahem
bot
And still he wasn’t going to consider reds til nationals option was completely gone….cincy is a last place destination
JackArmstrongStartedAnAllStarGame
Why? Because Trevor Bauer, the #3 pitcher in the rotation is gone? It’s the same team that started out 2020 with high expectations minus an inconsistent closer and a pitcher who pitched above his skill set for 11 games. Cincinnati is in the conversation for the NL Central no differently than Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Chicago.
Deadguy
Kolten Wong is gonna tear it up as a Brewer. Jack Flaherty will not be a Cardinal after team control is up unless they sign him to what he is asking for I believe. Dude is a bulldog, one of my favorite pitchers, I see him signing in LA, he wore Lakers Jerseys to his press conferences this summer while they were making there title run, he grew up in California, I don’t even know if a blank check would keep him in STL. He hasn’t said any of this, Just my humble opinion and observations of all this.
Orel Saxhiser
Flaherty’s mom remains an avid Dodger fan.
The Cards letting Wong go was a surprise. I’ve always viewed them as a franchise that values defense. Wong is the kind of guy you don’t truly appreciate until he’s playing for someone else. And I don’t mean just on defense.
daveineg
Flaherty will like getting out of the NL Central because he won’t have the face the Brewers as much. I don’t know what it is but even when the Brewers team is in a hitting slump, they come out of it against Flaherty.
Lanidrac
The Cardinals still have 3 years to figure out how to handle Flaherty. I’m not worried…yet. I just hope it doesn’t turn into a repeat of the disastrous salary negotiations with Steve Carlton.
Loling @ you
Had no idea Carlton was on cards, wow imagine a rotation with gibson and Carlton yikes. Some of the best to ever step on mound
Orel Saxhiser
Tatsumaki, while pitching for the Cardinals in 1969, Carlton struck out 19 Mets but lost the game 4-3 due to a pair of two-run homers by Ron Swoboda. It was the first time in modern history that a pitcher struck out 19 batters in a nine-inning game. Of course, it was a magical season for the Mets. Carlton won 77 games for the Cardinals and was in their rotation alongside Gibson for the 1967-68 World Series teams.
By the way, Swoboda was struggling through his fifth season when he hit those two home runs. After breaking in with 19 HR as a 21-year-old rookie in 1965, he was considered a disappointment with years of 8, 13, and 11 homers. He finished with 9 in 1969. Mets fans expected much more. After hitting the two HR against Carlton, he said something like, “Had I hit those two homers a few years ago when everyone wanted me to, I might not have hit them today.”
Earlier that year, Swoboda was 0-5 with five strikeouts against Carlton in a game also won by the Mets. The boos got louder after each strikeout. His quote after the game: “If we lost, I’d be eating my heart out.” Not all Yogi-isms were delivered by Yogi Berra.
And then there was the time Swoboda missed his at-bat because he was in the clubhouse men’s room…
DrDan75
@Tatsumaki
Steve Carlton was traded from the Cardinals to the Phillies on Feb 25, 1972 for Rick Wise in one of the most one-sided trades in baseball history.
During that 1972 season, Carlton went 27-10 with an ERA of 1.97 on a last place Phillies team that went 59-103. It remains one of the greatest single season pitching performances in the history of baseball.
stymeedone
But Remember, wins are not a good evaluator of a pitcher. He was just lucky that the team happened to score on the days he pitched. (Sarcasm)
Mjshof
@Stymedone. You’re a terrible human being and just not woke enough to be a baseball fan. I’m outraged and want you cancelled bc that’s a microaggression against Wins.
iverbure
Imagine being a fan of baseball in 2021 and thinking wins are still important? I remember being at a conference a couple years ago where a couple managers and gms were answering questions. The first couple were from old dinosaurs about pitching wins and average. Someone shouted someone ask a question from this decade and the people on stage all laughed for like a minute. Basically insulting anyone who thinks pitching wins and batting average to their face. They then explained those stats aren’t looked at all anymore and haven’t been for well over a decade.
But you keep thinking they’re important
Lanidrac
The thing is, Carlton was only traded due to having just a $5,000 difference in his salary demands compared to what the Cardinals wanted to pay him during the last years of the reserve clause.
Lanidrac
I was under the impression that the Brewers, like most teams, plan to cut payroll compared to last year’s pre-prorated figure. Why would they sign someone who would put their payroll over that figure?
Bud Selig Fan
Stearns/Attanasio have shown in the past with Moustakas and Grandal, that if the opportunity arises and a certain player they covet is available for a short term value deal they’ll pounce. Same would have to be for Turner, it would need to be for short term or a lower than expected AAV deal.
pdxbrewcrew
The Brewers also set that payroll amount back in November. It was still quite up in the air when/how many fans would be able to attend games in 2021, if at all. The Brewers are a franchise that relies on ticket sales for a major chunk of their revenue.
Lanidrac
Yeah, and they lost all of last season’s gate revenue. Even with prorated salaries, that’s a big loss, which is why most teams are cutting payroll this season to make up for last season’s losses irregardless of how many fans show up this season.
Cap & Crunch
FanSided getting quoted as a braintrust………No thanks!
I am a little bit surprised there are not a couple more teams stepping up and offering a slight overpay on a 3 yr deal for JT…especially AL teams . I think theres more worry in the industry than general pop here, probably helps him get back to LAD in the end, they were never extending for him too far-
Orel Saxhiser
Friedman will have it figured out by opening day. One way or another, the Dodgers will have a solid 3B. You don’t go all-in toward defending a title by shelling out major bucks to improve a strength while making do someplace else.
iverbure
I wonder if the dodgers could trade Joe Kelly and attach a prospect to him and get rid of his full salary. Would give the dodgers more payroll flexibility to bring back turner for 2 years .
vtadave
Teams like the Indians and Tigers would be smart to do that a la the Cozart deal.
Buster79
They need to lock up Flaherty. It’s ok if Wong goes, they have a solid infield. Flaherty is probably the most important guy on the team to get signed long term.
bot
Cards prob have buyers remorse from all the bad long term deals they are still trying to get rid of. Doubtful they sign em
Lanidrac
Not many early career extensions turn out poorly.. Even Carlos Martinez’s isn’t that bad if he comes back strong this year. Consider the bargains they got for guys like Wong and DeJong.
letsholdemandgohome
Not sure why Flaherty thinks he should be signing a similar contract to what Trevor Bauer just signed. Obviously i am exaggerating to some extent, but all young players, including pitchers that are under team control all go thru the same process. Flaherty is no different.
EndinStealth
And that’s his point. He believes the CBA is unfair to younger players that produce. So he does it on principle.
Mjshof
Agreed Endinstealth and the Cardinals aren’t being smart by ignoring that feeling when they don’t make some financial accommodations. A couple bucks now could save a lot more later. He’ll remember it, either way, for sure down the road.
Add in that he could be a big-city guy and you can easily see him traded before he becomes a FA. Meaning he’d have to be sold on staying in St Louis both financially and quality of life/ amenities-wise.
1984wasntamanual
How often does this actually work?
iverbure
Never. Where do people come up with this narrative? Why on earth would a guy who thinks he’s worth 10x what his arb salary resign a team friendly deal in free agency once he gets the leverage of having a higher salary from arb?
The next cba should have bonuses for pre arb guys that get mvp and cy votes. Escalators to their arb. If others are getting say 550,000 than a cy young 3rd place gets a extra 150k escalator. This will boost their salary in year 4,5 and 6 when players start earning big money in arb.
JoeBrady
I think it’s useful to have a good working relationship, but that only works at the edges. Same as us commoners. If you like the environment, you’ll accept less. But you won’t accept lot less.
jediknight
I assuredly get what you are saying, but, I can’t see the PA being fine with writers effectively determining the potential earnings of it’s members.
larry48
Yes, but the Cardinals fight with pitchers all the time and make them really piss off. Then they ask for a team discount. Cardinals’ defense will be a lot worse without Wong.
mack423
Where is Hiura playing if not 2B, 3B or 1B? Or is the thinking they’re prioritizing Turner at 3B over signing Choo at 1B, keeping Hiura at 1B? Can’t see him working well at 3B.
Bud Selig Fan
Stearns has made clear Hiura is playing 1st. Choo would be depth at 1st, RF and as a PH. They likely won’t sign Turner, unless the Dodgers pivot and Turner doesn’t get his 3/4 year overpay contract from one of his other suitors.
larry48
Turner won’t go to Brewers he would only go to a contender ie Dodgers/Braves.
daveineg
Brewers have been in the playoffs 3 straight seasons and have the best relief duo in baseball. Adding Turner and Wong and getting bounce back year from Yelich would make them solid contenders to win the NL Central
SharksFan91
My fingers are crossed that Turner signs somewhere and NOT in Milwaukee. The last thing the Brewers need is another replica of recent signings! (See Vogelbach, Healy, Gyrko, Smoak, Shaw, Pederson, Morrison, etc.) Oops, I forgot. Mark A., Stearns, and Counsell prefer the team to look like a rural north woods bar slow-pitch softball team. I was hoping the signing of Wong would get us away from that!
its_happening
Difference between Turner and the names you mentioned (I’ll add Sogard and Holt), is Turner is actual quality. What the Brewers did last offseason was atrocious. A Wong-Cain-Yelich-Turner-Hiura 1-5 would be pretty darn good.
its_happening
If the Brewers land Turner and drop Vogelbach to allow Hiura to play 1B, Brewers might be the division favorite over the Cards.
bot
They are surely close. Brewers do good offseason work to stay competitive year in and year out. Yet can barely muster a 100 mill payroll while so many other teams can blow past the 210M threshold with much less success only bc they are in a bigger market. Baseball is a tough business.
ASapsFables
For a small market team the Brewers haven’t shied away from some pretty big contracts. They extended Christian Yelich last March with a 9 yrs/$215M deal. They had previously extended Ryan Braun twice and signed free agent Lorenzo Cain to a 5 yrs/$80M in January of 2018. The problem is these contracts became albatrosses with a franchise not willing to push their annual budget too far north of the $100m threshold.
Papabueno
From a Nats fan, I wish Doolittle well. Hope he can make a comeback with the Reds. I think his arm took such a beating in 2019, that he may never be the same. He lived on that high spin rate FB up in the zone for so long, but now he’s lost both MPH and RPMs. He’ll need something off-speed, and that was a work-in-progress while he was in DC. If he can develop a decent change-up or a slurve, it will help his FB play up.
Dock_Elvis
Wong was one of the best pure contact hitters I ever saw in the Midwest League.
larry48
Turner won’t go to Brewers he would only go to a contender ie Dodgers/Braves.
pdxbrewcrew
Only a moron wouldn’t consider the Brewers a contender next year.
Chief Two Hands
Only a moron, huh? The best the Brewers will be able to hope to contend for is a WC spot, and that will likely be a reach for them.
pdxbrewcrew
Yep, only a moron.
its_happening
Put them in another NL division and they are not a contender. Count your lucky stars that at least 2 teams in the NL Central has decided to punt the season.
ASapsFables
Jack Flaherty can become a free agent following the 2023 season. Lucas Giolito likewise. Max Fried can become one the following season. Can you imagine these three TOR’s pitching together in the same rotation? It happened briefly in 2012 when all of them were pitching for Harvard-Westlake High School in Los Angeles under new White Sox pitching coach Ethan Katz.
Fried had just transferred from Harvard-Westlake along with Katz from another area high school that had cut its extracurricular activities. He was a senior in 2021 along with Giolito, with the latter suffering a strained UCL in March cutting his season short. Flaherty was a sophomore.
Fried and Giolito were each first round picks later that June in the 2012 MLB draft. Fried was the #7 overall pick of the Padres. Despite his elbow issues, Giolito was the #16 overall selection of the Nationals and signed his bonus with just 30 seconds remaining before the July 13th deadline. He had TJ surgery before the end of the month. Flaherty also became a first round pick in the 2014 MLB draft, the #34 overall selection of the Cardinals as a compensatory pick for losing Carlos Beltrán as a free agent to the Yankees.
Fried was the Padres top pitching prospect when he was traded to the Braves in December of 2014 as part of a package for OF Justin Upton. Fried had just had TJ surgery of his own the previous August. Giolito had already made his MLB debut with the Nationals when he was traded to the White Sox in December of 2016 as part of the Adam Eaton deal that helped kick off the Chisox rebuild.
Flaherty, Fried and Giolito have all remained friends to this day. I can envision them all reuniting in an MLB rotation, perhaps under the tutelage of Katz. Maybe that happens on the southside of Chicago or back in Los Angeles where they all pitched together as amateurs. One thing seems more certain. It probably won’t be in St.Louis considering the animosity the Cardinals have had with Flaherty and a few of his other pitching mates.
Dock_Elvis
That’s a frequent occurrence. It’s hard to get guys together though.
ASapsFables
Three young TOR’s reaching free agency in proximity to each other may be “a frequent occurrence”. It’s hardly a common occurrence that each would have pitched together in the same high school rotation and that all would become future first round MLB drafts picks with their mentor also becoming an MLB pitching coach. It’s not likely that they will all reunite in an MLB rotation but it is certainly conceivable that they could through free agency and/or trades. It would also make for an extremely compelling story, no?
Orel Saxhiser
Aaron, Thanks for the info. So many fascinating twists and turns. This will have me looking for more info on Ethan Katz.
CNichols
Who else is even in on Justin Turner at this point?
I know I saw an article on here that said the Blue Jays at one point, but then they got Semien so that probably takes them out of the picture. The Brewers are on the periphery of the bidding according to this, which makes sense because they’re really the team with the biggest hole at 3B, but it doesn’t seem like they’re a real serious option because of the $. Other than LAD and MIL, I’m not seeing a ton of teams that would be in on him.
I guess you could make a case for like the Nationals or the Braves having a need, it just doesn’t seem like those teams are going to make that signing after what they’ve done this offseason already. It feels like he is inevitably going to end up back in LA and they’re just trying to drum up a “bidding war” to help negotiate a bigger contract.
adc6r
We’ll miss the Doctor in DC. But something tells me it was the right time to make a change Hand/Harris/Hudson is a balanced and formidable back end to the pen. Through in Ryne Harper & you get a solid 4H [for you Aggies] bullpen
Brayden
I know the Pirates are bad but when are they ever gonna do good in the division?