Jameson Taillon is aiming for 120 to 150 innings in his comeback from Tommy John surgery, writes Ken Davidoff of the New York Post. Taillon has just 37 1/3 innings to his name over the past two seasons, and since this will be his second time coming back from TJ, there’s reason to temper expectations regarding his workload. Davidoff looks at PECOTA, Steamer, and ZiPS to get an idea for what the projection systems think Taillon can handle in 2021 – though the creators of the systems admit this is an area that requires guesswork. Still, it’s instructive to know that the three systems project 103 innings, 133 innings, and 106 1/3 innings – in line with Taillon’s thinking.
How those innings manifest might be the question for the Yankees. The mean of the three projections is 114-ish innings, which would be just under four innings per start over a full 30-game workload. That’s not likely to be the shape of Taillon’s 2021 production. We know that depth will be key in 2021 across the league, but thinking in this way about Taillon all but erases the possibility of a five-man rotation surviving the season.
While that’s an absolute best-case, rarely-achieved feat in the first place, it’s worth keeping in mind before getting frustrated when Deivi García, for example, doesn’t make an opening day roster, speculatively speaking. And while Clarke Schmidt’s injury doesn’t appear to be serious, it serves as a generous reminder that the injury bug can bite at any time.
As if Taillon didn’t cloud the Yankees’ projections enough on his own, the rest of the group doesn’t bring much certainty either – beyond Gerrit Cole, of course. The projection systems collectively tag presumptive No. 2 starter Corey Kluber with an expectation for about 137 innings in 2021, a forecast largely born from the fact that the soon-to-be 35-year-old managed just one inning in 2020 and 35 2/3 innings the year before. Still, Kluber was a workhorse before 2019, with five straight 200+ inning seasons with the Indians.
Jordan Montgomery slots into the No. 4 spot, and he logged just 51 2/3 innings over the past two seasons after undergoing Tommy John surgery himself. Somewhat remarkably, the starter with the most innings after Cole the past two seasons is the guy who missed all of 2020 under the league’s domestic violence policy: Domingo Germán. Germán made 24 starts and amassed 143 innings with a 4.03 ERA/4.72 FIP, 38.1 percent groundball rate, 25.8 percent strikeout rate, and 6.6 percent walk rate in 2019. Those are above-average walk and strikeout numbers. Germán faces his own uphill climb, of course. Given comments made by his Yankee teammates this offseason, there’s more than a little doubt about how well he’ll be able to re-acclimate to the spotlight that comes with donning Yankee pinstripes.
García will obviously be a candidate to join the rotation, as could other 40-man roster arms like Schmidt, Michael King, Nick Nelson, Alexander Vizcaino, Luis Medina, and Luis Gil. Veterans Jhoulys Chacin and Asher Wojciechowski are also in camp as non-roster invitees. Jonathan Loaisiga, Albert Abreu and Luis Cessa are expected to pitch out the bullpen, but they’ve spent time starting games in the past. The Yankees also hope to receive a mid-season boost when Luis Severino returns from Tommy John. Severino threw just 12 innings the past two seasons, but he was an ace in the two years before that, averaging a 3.18 ERA/3.01 FIP, 5.5 fWAR in 192 innings per season in 2017 and 2018.
Of course, no matter the starting five, most teams are going to call upon more than just their opening day rotation to toe the rubber. The Yankees themselves used nine different starting pitchers in 2020 over just 60 games. They used 12 in 2019, 12 in 2018, and 11 in 2017. Those units finished eighth, fifth and fourth in the American League by measure of FIP, ninth, third and third by fWAR. Yankee starters ranked third in the AL by both FIP (4.19 FIP) and fWAR (5.3 fWAR) last season.
Volume isn’t everything, but for pitchers, inning totals do often point to success, or at the very least, health. Given the uncertainty of the Yankees new rotation, what are your expectations? Who of the starters after Cole stands the best chance of surviving the season?
(Poll link for app users)
(Poll link for app users)
Is the Yankee rotation bad? No. Is it a WS capable rotation? Probably not. Even if Kluber and Taillon rebound. A midseason acquisition (German Marquez) is definitely in order.
A Rockies pitcher is not what I’d be leaning on at playoff time.
Marquez has very good numbers away from Coors Field. He would be a good addition to anyone’s rotation
Tyler Chatwood had very good stats away from Coors. When the Cubs took him, he pitched like he was in Coors all the time.
I will say with confidence, German Marquez is a much better pitcher than Tyler Chatwood
Jon Gray had good stats outside of Coors a couple years back.
Freeland had good stats outside Coors not too long ago.
Ubaldo Jimenez once had amazing stats outside Coors.
Marquez will have a hard time sustaining that level.
There’s only one pitcher I know of that can pitch at Coors – Hideki Nomo.
Marquez isn’t just any Rockies pitcher.
Then you dont know Marquez. Plus Coors field isnt included in the trade.
A lot of ifs but… if Kluber and taillon can bounce back/stay healthy AND you throw severino in there too this rotation is WS capable. Especially with the offensive power and pen they shouldn’t need to throw a shut out every game, just keep it close. Also a more normal playoff setup with days off would help a lot because you can turn the ball over to Cole an extra time each series if needed. Personally I think the talent is there, I just don’t see how all 3 of those guys are going to stay on the field all season and into the post season.
What exactly do the Yankees have to trade that would be worthy of Colorado giving away a major talent like German Marquez? Farm system is below average. There is no combination of young Yankee arms that is worth trading Marquez for. The Yankees are in decline. Even the mighty Yankees at some point will be looking at a rebuild without a farm system. You cannot build a team in free agency.
Yanks system is underrated. They certainly have the talent to get Marquez.
Please tell me about all this talent in the Yankee farm system. I am all ears.
I don’t think you actually know what’s in the yankee farm system… a below average farm doesn’t equate to completely depleted. The Yankees very obviously COULD put together a package to trade for Marquez. I doubt they would be willing to part with enough to meet Colorado’s likely ask but not being able to really isn’t the issue.
I know exactly what is in there farm system. The Yankees don’t have the prospects to land dudes like German Marquez, Luis Castillo, etc. They can only land salary dump starters. Again, I am asking, just who are all these studs in the Yankee farm system that the rest of baseball cannot wait to get their hands on? Oh wait ….. Deivi Garcia and Clarke Schmidt. Lol.
But… but… but… Andujar… Frazier… Ford… Bird… oh wait, not Bird.
@Very Barry- you couldn’t be more wrong. The Yankees could land German Marquez right now. But then they go over the luxury tax which they don’t want to do. Either Garcia or Schmidt would have to be part of a package that would likely include Al Abreu and Mike Ford. They might not have to trade for Marquez, they go to see if their pitchers can stay healthy lst. Sevvy is coming back in the mid summer so that will be a big boost to their rotation. So another starter might not even be a must.
Blake Snell cost the Padres Luis Patino (#19 prospect in baseball), Mejia, Hunt and Wilcox (1st round talent).
So to start Marquez would cost Dominguez (#32 prospect in baseball) plus a lot more. Probably Schmidt and 1 or 2 others in addition to Dominguez. Are the Yankees willing to do that?
@Yank4Life …. Al Aubreu??? You have got to be kidding. He ain’t even top 10 in the below average Yankee system. Severino is coming back? Coming back as what? A dominant starter after 2 years of major arm issues? Yankees fell apart in a 60-game season last year. This pitching staff ain’t making it to 162. Fantasy baseball drafts give you a real good idea of what people think about your players. Gerrit Cole is a 1st rounder. In a 14-team league, the next Yankee starter taken will be Corey Kluber somewhere after the 15th round. Let that sink in for a moment. The Yankee starting rotation is trash. Nothing but a bunch of question marks after Cole. Half the dudes ain’t pitched in 2 years and the other half don’t have 2 years experience.
Lol people keep mentioning talented prospects and you keep trying to pretend they’re awful based probably on a sample size of seeing them throw one inning or a single at bat. Just because you don’t like the Yankees doesn’t mean they don’t have talent, which is really all this is about… You clearly don’t like the Yankees so you undervalue them to the point of stupidity. Do the Yankees have a great farm system? No. Do they have plenty of talent to land a major pitcher if they really wanted to? Yes. I know you don’t like it but it’s true.
Put another way… I’m not sure what team you like but the Red Sox have a much weaker farm system than the Yankees based on pretty much every metric out there and they also have the pieces to land these guys if they wanted to.
@Very Barry- what’s wrong with Al Abreu? A flamethrower that could close for the Rockies right now. Luis Medina is another hard thrower who would be able to start for Colorado in a few years. What’s wrong with Deivi Garcia or Clarke Schmidt? One of them could be had for German Marquez if he was needed. At this time he isn’t. So consider yourself wrong the Yankees have a lot of prospects with talent that could be offered for a Marquez or Luis Castillo on the Reds. But the Yankees Jasson Dominguez their top prospect will not be traded. The Yankees would consider moving shortstops Oswald Peraza or Anthony Volpe along with Schmidt or Garcia for Luis Castillo. That’s if the Reds eventually want to trade him though. Just curious who is the team you root for?
@Yank4Life – Marquez is an absolute stud on a good team. Why would a rebuilding Rockies team trade him for three guys in Al Abreu, Schmidt and Garcia who 3 years from now when you are emerging from a rebuild may not even still be on your roster. Nobody views any of these guys as anything more than back end of the rotation guys who flame out in a couple of years. Abreu is a bullpen arm. The overvalue placed on Yankee prospects is stunning. White Sox all day!!
Very Barry- if Marquez is that good, maybe the White Sox should try to get him? I don’t think the Yankees have a need for him. Good luck with the Rockies trading him to a team that could use him. The Blue Jays need a starter sounds like he could be a fit there also. The Rockies need a 3rd basemen now that Arenado was traded sounds like Gurriel could be that guy.
Yankee system is ranked 15-25 among sites and most of its chips is in the low minors and they see the Yankees farm jumping up in the rankings in the next couple of years
@Stan- that’s where your dead wrong. How can these minor league players be ranked when there was no minor league season last season? Smh. That doesn’t make any sense. The Yankees are loaded with prospects and could get any player with the talent they have on their farm. Their main goal in 2021 is to stay under the luxury tax, which so far they’ve been able to do. If a player is available that they really need at the deadline the Yankees will get him.
I’m not a yankees fan by any means but a package headlined by schmidt and dominguez should absolutely be enough to net marquez… He’s got a nice team friendly contract w 3 years at around 35 mil plus a team option at a net 14.5 but I’d doubt they get much more than a top 50 and top 100 guy…maybe theyd need to add more but I think those two could headline as the minor league talent in a deal
Marquez has a very nice team friendly deal ….. Do you think some other teams with better prospects might be able to get something done that the Yankees cannot? Same applies for Luis Castillo. The bag of balls you guys keep offering ain’t motivating nobody to get something done. Meanwhile, in Boston, Chris Sale comes back healthy. Let’s see …. Garrett Richards ….. hmm. Eduardo??? ….. hmmm …. Since you Yankee guys seem to think injuries don’t matter ….. These dudes come back healthy and the Yanks might be looking at a 4th place AL East finish.
Yanks farm system is currently ranked 13th or 14th wherever I can find rankings.
Crawling towards the top 10. They’ve been building it back up.
So, I don’t really buy that it’s “below average”. The Yankees have the prospects to get a deal done. I just have a hard time seeing today’s Value Driven Brian Cashman parting with what it would take.
Cash takes a pretty hard line these days when it comes to trades. I think that’s much more of an impediment than lack of prospects, @barry.
Ducky: Based on reading these posts it seems as though @ VeryBarry has several impediments too. The first impediment is accurately judging a team’s ability to trade; the second is the ability to properly evaluate a farm system.
Virtually everyone In the Yankees rotation has had Tommy John surgery. Like 3/5ths of the rotation. The group has potential if they can perform and stay healthy.
That’s a lot of ???? If healthy they can be a very strong rotation.
If healthy, the Yankees rotation is absolutely top 5. You’re nuts thinking they’re not WS worthy. It all comes down to health for them. They have a ton of depth also.
If Bob Gibson wasn’t 80 years old, he’d probably be a top starter.
You’d better sit down before reading this, but I have some bad news for you…..
Yeah, but health with four guys who have had arm surgeries within the past 2 years. Way too much IF. Not a good rotation for that pen and lineup. Not at all.
Huge IF. This season’s Yankee rotation is impossible to predict. It could be very good or could be bad. Tanaka was a stabilizing force. Now gone.
As usual, we have to win by scoring runs and shutting teams down late.
The difficult schedule involves NL East lineups featuring a plethora of MVP types–Acuna, Freeman, Ozuna, Soto, Turner, Harper, Alonso, etc. Won’t be easy.
“Probably” is the deal @Nebraska.
This is how Cashman has built out this core. The Yanks hit so many home runs that they’ll be an elite scoring offense. History says these guys finish top two or three in scoring.
Cash also likes his bullpen. Again, this group should follow previous iterations form & run six (or more) deep.
Yanks just can’t seem to build that dominant rotation. Some of it is by choice. & – hey – Yanks rotation was the envy of MLB a year ago. But then the damnit got all over the mafa & the whole thing turned into a piece of poop.
Anyway: Yanks – once again – will attempt to bash & bullpen their way to a pennant. It is what it is. We’ve seen it lead to 100 win seasons & deep playoff runs. So not a horrible strategy by any means.
Big difference this time is Gerrit Cole.
& the Yanks have good rotation depth, at least.
It’s an interesting exercise in “doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results”.
I’m looking forward to seeing how it goes.
Let’s see how the Yankees do with the baseball being deadened. They ain’t got no shot at playing small ball. Yanks are in decline guys. This is the year that it all becomes obvious. 10 more years of paying Stanton???? What are we now 2, 3 years away from Stanton ending his career tearing a hamstring walking to the dugout. These types of injuries don’t happen to guys like me who don’t “enhance” workouts with “vitamins”.
Lol
Bro…those injuries don’t happen to you because you’re not a professional athlete. You’re some dude gettin’ it in at Lfetime fitness, or whatever.
Which is good! (vitamins & supplements can help with that – fyi)
But a far cry from playing MLB baseball.
@VeryBarry: You are selecting incredibly long-winded, unsubstantiated ways in which to express your disdain for the Yankees.
The CWS are ever-improving so you should be happy. They just won’t be as good as the Yankees.
So, enjoy your quest for a postseason berth, while we plan on another WS run, yet another 100-game-winning season, and our postseason victory celebrations. We will gladly take a few more pennants, while you’re still trying to make the playoffs, and be satisfied that our window never closes.
Or continue he being angry and jealous. Attack the farm system as “below average” when it is not – see ya in the postseason, if you can make it there.
Can’t lie, Clip.
I’d kinda like to see – ya know – one pennant at this point. I’ve moved beyond dynastic designs to just wanting some tangible accomplishment. Like an actual AL pennant.
Keep feeling like Hal is being penny wise but pound foolish over this 210 business. A little more starting pitching & this squad would look really good, man.
Agree. The timing of the stinginess is unfortunate. We still have the best overall roster by a little but pitching tends to dominate in October. Severino may be the key.
We have a good shot, best since ’17 when we wuz robbed.
Cashman did some really good work this off-season. Our lineup is still ferocious & he put some resources into building out the bench/overall depth.
I give him a high grade here.
Give him one in the ‘pen, too. Parlaying Ottavino & a fringe prospect into Wilson, O’Day, & Warren is absolutely brilliant. Cash played the hell outta the reliever market. This bullpen doesn’t have quite the sizzle as previous iterations but it could be the deepest of the lot.
Good stuff.
Kluber, Taillon, Chacin are all adds that I like, too. Really, Cash is probably counting on only having to hit on one of the three. But the rotation just looks a little sketchy. Again.
I keep hoping Cash is gonna come outta nowhere & scoop Odorizzi. Just a decent midrotation starter would really tighten up this squad.
Seems pretty much the same thing we’ve been doing with this core. I guess the thinking is, “well, this time we have Gerrit Cole”.
Which is certainly a defensible position. As a fan, I’d like to have seen a little more done. Big surprise there, uh? But there are some pretty good teams in the AL East & the entire American League.
Agree with all. Cashman is strapped by management. If this was a normal season, he would have done the same plus sign Tanaka.
Taillon is a great signing for 2.5 million.
The Yankee rotation belongs in Las Vegas. Because it looks like it was a built by a compulsive gambler.
The thing about the Yankees though is they can always take on salary to fix it midseason with trades after they find out which gambles paid off and which didn’t.
You mentioned 3 Luises but not the most important one. Odd to write this piece with no mention of Severino at all.
He won’t be back until at least July, so.
Since he’s not projected to be ready until midseason at the earliest, it would be concerning if he winds up as the top yankee arm behind Cole, to say the least.
My point wasnt that he should be in the poll, but in an article discussing all the starting options for the team this year he doesnt even get a mention?
In the bottom of the 6th paragraph TC mentions Severino. I think he may the most upside of any of the NY starters not named Garrit Cole
mick – you picked a weird way to say “I didn’t read the whole article”
More then likely because he won’t start the season. He’s basically a trade deadline pick up in the grand scheme of things. Probably b available sooner then that. But won’t really be ramped up full till mid season.
Good point. I left him out because the expectations are so different for someone coming back mid-year, but you’re right, he deserves a mention.
I can’t vote against Klubot. He is always proving people wrong, and I think he will yet again. This is where mental toughness comes through. I vote Klubot.
& the back of his baseball card, @Rangers29.
I’m pretty excited to see him throw for us. I’ve envied him from afar for years. Just don’t let him face Didi in the playoffs & he’ll play.
Man. Yanks are so close to having a pretty decent rotation. Put Tanaka in the middle of this group & they look so much better.
Alas.
Kluber and Taillon are a little to wildcardish to have any real confidence at this point I feel
Totally agree. The Yankees are counting on two pitchers with major injury issues to contribute. This is more likely to not go well than work out.
I don’t think they really are though.
This team wins games by scoring runs & having a deep lockdown bullpen.
None of that has changed.
If Cash hits on just one of the two, that along with Cole, & the existing depth will be enough.
Now if he rolls snake eyes here…yeah, that might be a problem.
Agree but I’m taking Kluber over Taillon any day
Chacin has pitched well in the past and would be a sixth starter for a lot of teams. I see him getting a spot.
Ya know, @RJ I’d completely forgotten about Chacin. So it’s – in a sense – Tanaka-san, Paxton, & Happ for Kluber, Taillon, & Chacin.
Huh.
At the moment I certainly can’t hate what Cashman did there.
This is not a very good rotation. They are lucky the play in the AL
But their offense I’m sure will offset it and keep them in the neighborhood of second place
This reminds me of porcello Wacha addition lol
these guys are lightyears better to be honest. and that’s not a Mets knock as much a knock on the players themselves.
I’m trying to say is that they think talion and Kluber will be good this year. They won’t.
What makes you so sure of that Nostradamus?
both of them are lightyears more talented them Wacha and Porcello
They will, also the Yankees rotation is better than the Mets rotation.
You’re not getting the point… I’m not arguing that. Talion and kluber will do bad next year and people think they are solids two pitchers.
Metsfan has still got an inferiority complex when it comes to the Yankees
Kluber was an elite pitcher from 14-18, the only thing that got in the way were injuries. He appears to be healthy now. Taillon has generally pitched well for most of his career and his peripherals suggest he could get even better. He too appears to be healthy now. You saying they won’t be good is more of an emotional opinion than a rational one
Do elite pitchers get a 1 year, $11 million contract when they hit free agency? No, they get a 2 year, $85 million contract or a 9 year, $324 million contract. Do you know what kind of pitchers get 1 year, $10-$11 million contracts? Rick Porcello and Dellin Betances last year.
You get what you pay for. Porcello and Betances last year is the kind of performance you can expect from free agent starters at that price. If anyone thought he was worth more than $11 million, wouldn’t someone have given it to him?
Kluber signed for 1 year at $11 mil because he’s only pitched 36 and two thirds innings the last two years. Between the uncertainty and spending being down he obviously wasn’t going to receive a huge contract offer. The fact that a guy with that much uncertainty still received $11 mil is a testament to what Kluber is capable of when healthy. If I’m not mistaken there were around twenty teams in attendance for Kluber’s showcase in January and they all wanted to sign him. He probably won’t be the elite pitcher he was with the Indians but a healthy Kluber can still be very good
Kluber only got $11 million because he is coming back from injury. That means he is a question mark. Just like Betances was last year. How did that work out?
Kluber was only worth $11 million because that is the most any of those 20 teams would give him. That means nobody, including the Yankees, are getting on him being worth any more than that.
Nobody is denying that Kluber is a question mark. However $11 mil is a lot to give to a soon to be 35 year old with less than 40 innings pitched the last two years. A healthy Kluber for just $11 mil is a bargain, obviously though health has been an issue with him lately
@Hudson6- your obviously not paying attention. The majority of free agents this season signed 1 year contracts with 2020 being a year of uncertainty. So wake ^ and do your homework.
Oh no! @mestfan22
They’ll “do bad”? Oh gosh. You mean like the Joker & the Green Goblin?
If you think that because player A didn’t do well on a bounce back deal automatically means the same for player B, there’s no saving you
Hudson6: I think contemporary boy band when viewing your name
Anyway, they are questionable; nobody denies that. They could completely flop. Based on their history, recovery practices, and monitoring their current pitching with the incredible technology they have, there’s obviously value there.
I think it’s more that Cash knows market value for a pitcher coming back from injury, like Kluber and paid that, rather than they are paying based on preset expectations. And, Kluber wanted to play in NY if I’m not mistaken.
Time will tell – if he’s good, he’s good. If he sucks, they’ll drop him, and pivot to depth or trade for another starter.
Frankly, I’m more concerned that Yankees haven’t considered that sooner, but I’m so glad they did not acquire Bauer.
My thinking is as long as the Yankees can get to July without a serious injury in the rotation they’ll be alright. That would give Garcia and Schmidt a couple months to continue their development in AAA and Sevy should be ready sometime that month. They also have a pair of intriguing prospects in Oswald Peraza and Austin Wells who could potentially be trade chips for a SP if they need to go that route. Overall every contender other than the Dodgers has question marks in their rotations so I don’t see the Yankees as having much bigger issues than anyone else
Talk about looking at the world through rose colored glasses. Looking at the injury history of these starters just what makes you think the Yankees can get to July without losing one or, more likely, two of them? And if you think Peraza and Wells are going to bring you a top level starter then you’ve been smoking too many Yankees cigarettes.
In no way was I saying they will make it to July injury free. I said if they can they’ll be alright. I also said Peraza and Wells intriguing, not sure things. Peraza is a very good defensive SS who has held his own offensively despite facing older more advanced competition through his development. Wells has big question marks defensively but his bat is supposed to be legit. If he shows he can handle LF and hit as as expected his stock goes way up. A good showing from those two in the early going and they could be value trade chips. I also never said anything about trading for a “top level starter.”
My, my but you backed off when presented with reality.
How exactly did I “back off when presented with reality?” You wrongly interpreted what I said and I just clarified it. I really don’t see what you’re getting at here
Ronk, another Yankee hater who takes your statements way out of context and to the extreme; then when you treat him like a first-grader and break it down, accuses you of backing off when presented with “reality?”
Talk about rose-colored glasses!
@ronk
Well said.
Yanks will be fine
im sure that was said last year too
They made it to the playoffs and lost. I know the expectation is to win the WS every year but hey the Rays were hot.
If I was a Yankees fan I’d be extremely concerned of the starting pitching outside of Gerrit Cole.
This is pretty much the way the Yankees play baseball these days. They hit tons of jacks which leads to bunches of runs. They (hopefully) play mediocre defense. They add teally good bullpens & overall depth.
& – yeah – sketchy starting pitching. They’ve reached the LCS twice with this particular formula. Cole is a true ace. He’s really the only guy they absolutely must have. Otherwise…yeah, more of the same cobbling things together year by year.
It’s quite ironic how so many people hate on Yankee fans for our innate desire to win every year, and accept nothing less. But when we have a clear playoff team, still the best in the AL if you look at many of the analysts’ rankings, they criticize the Yankees as if they’re a perennial third place ALE team. It’s confounding.
Montgomery. id expect injuries to Taillon and Kluber, Garcia is optioned to start, and German is likely gone or in the pen
Unless something happens, German isn’t going anywhere. They wouldn’t be working on integrating him back with the team if they were going to move him. He also has less than no trade value right now.
it could just be because they have to give him a legitimate shot to make the team before cutting him loose. MLBPA rules.
I felt he deserved a second chance. To get some help & better himself. In our company I deal with the tradesman & sales guys. My partner – God love him – does all the office stuff.
So I deal with a lot of personalities. Not all of them the most savory, uh.
But now that it comes out that players on the Yanks are not comfortable with him in the locker room, I need to rethink my stance. From a purely management perspective this is: A Problem.
& let’s be honest here. Guys like Zack Britton are much more important to the Yanks company than is Domingo German. Someone should give him a chance. At this point, I really don’t want it to be with us anymore.
Knowing players on the Yanks don’t want him on the team makes this a no brainier for me. I’ve never once trotted out the “trade him for a bag of baseballs” cliche.
Until now.
Get this guy off the team, man. I don’t care if it makes us “worse” on paper.
I hafta commend Britton about his negative comments regarding German n his domestic abuse done right in front of MLB. Shame on ownership keeping him on.
I get your point, but no team just throws a talented pitcher away. Had the Yankees released German, he would have found a new team in a New York minute.
Just the kind of guy the Oakland Raiders used to thrive on picking up. (John Matuzak, Lyle Alzado.) Too bad German doesn’t play football and Al Davis is dead.
The Yankees have made it clear that they are an organization that lacks morals. Domingo German should not be on the Yankee roster. You cannot put on the uniform and play if you have facial hair …… but if you have a horrific domestic violence past you get to take the mound every 5th day.
@ Very Barry. I agree. I thought for sure the Yankees would at the very least trade Domingo German. But then again the closer Aroldis Chapman is no saint either. Might as well allow long hair/beards as well. This is for certain no longer the team George Steinbrenner fielded as Chapman/German would NOT have been on his payroll.
Yankees are eying Osuna for midseason.
@FredMcGriff for the HOF- Domingo German has no trade value right now. One reason is because of what he did. The other reason he hasn’t pitched in over a year. Don’t forget George Steinbrenner signing Doc Golden and Darryl Strawberry either. So he did believe in 2nd chances.
*Gooden
The Reds did…
And the Yankees had no problem scooping him right up.
The ONLY reason Torres is a yankee is bc they acquired chapman in the middle of a domestic abuse scandal for less than pennies on the dollar. Why would they care about players abusing women now when it worked out so well for them in the past ??
If we just cancelled the hell outpf every person that ever made a mistake we’d have no players left. No one is perfect, relax
Don’t abuse women =/= be perfect
It’s really not that hard…
Which is part of why this drives so many of us nutty. Not hitting your girl just seems like common sense. Ya know? It’s so basic. It feels like having to explain to someone who to use a spoon to eat soup, or whatever.
I don’t know anyone who is perfect. I’d rather not, if we’re being honest. But yeah, this isn’t about anything at all having to do with perfection.
Cashman failed miserably to address this rotation this offseason.
And they should have gotten????
No need to say Bauer either. It would be the dumbest thing ever to put him on a team with Cole. There is no other FA this off-season that has the upside of Kluber and that includes Tanaka. Tanaka has been trending the wrong way and it was time to move on.
Also no need to throw out some unrealistic trade proposals. Most any trade for someone like Castillo would have included Garcia or Schmidt. They will be needed this year regardless of who is on the team.
Darvish is about the only pitcher moved this off-season that they could have gotten for not much prospect capital and it might be best they didn’t get him.
It just feels like the rotation is unfinished to me, @Joe.
But that was dictated by the number 210. Working with that caveat I like what Cash did. It just seems like another viable MLB caliber pitcher was in order.
Wouldn’t’ve even had to have been a big add. A few mil in fines & Tanaka could have been brought back alongside Kluber, Taillon, Chacin & the rotation would look pretty good. Or Walker. Just a solid guy to add some stability.
It’s a drag because in general Cashman had another very good off-season. Yanks look pretty good everywhere else. The rotation just looks a little flimsy. Well, to me anyway.
Ducky.. Yeah, I know we differ on Tanaka. And I wouldn’t have been upset if they brought him back but I think it was just time to move on from him.
With Walker, I am so glad they didn’t get him. His injury history and peripherals aren’t good. I also remember him getting blowed up by the Yankees last year. It didn’t count as earned runs because of an error by Toronto, but they knocked him out early. If they could have gotten him on a one year deal it wouldn’t be so bad but he isn’t worth a multi year commitment.
I agree that the lux tax shouldn’t be a factor but if there was a year to get under, it was this year. Could be setting up for a splurge next year like they did before they signed Cole. Remember fans being mad they didn’t get Corbin? If that would have happened I doubt they would have signed Cole. Besides, they don’t need a team full of aces to get through the regular season in a weakened ALE so just wait for the trade deadline and see where things stand. Maybe at that point there is a deal to be made. Patience.
BTW I agree with your earlier post about getting rid of German. That his teammates are speaking out says a lot..
Good morning, Joe –
I agree that we needed to try & shake some things up. & – truthfully – I like, to love every single move Cash made. If it was – indeed – just time to move on from him then so be it.
Feels like it was a cost cutting move: no more, no less. So that I don’t care for very much.
I’m not sure it’s necessarily a good call judging Walker on that particular outing. He threw a no-no once, as well. The truth of him as a pitcher most likely resides somewhere between the two.
I’ve just two “concerns” with the rotation:
– Innings. Will we get enough of them during the regular season? I can see some very real scenarios that end with the Yanks scrambling for a starter. They certainly could navigate the season with what they have. But a little stability – I feel – would have gone a long way.
– Playoffs. the Yanks’ll need at least 2 & really 3 starting pitchers who are not Cole. To me this is the bigger concern. Again, I can see it. But I can also see being short a competent starter once again in October. Because that seems to happen over & over lately.
To me not paying the – relatively speaking – small fine is penny wise but pound foolish. Now if the Yankees win the pennant then Hal’s wager paid off. Anything less than that & there’s a very real chance he left some money on the table.
The Yanks are a really good ballclub.
I just feel like they’ve been kinda pissing this core’s timeline away. It’s always something that precludes us from the “all in”.
I’ve been preaching patience all winter. I’m an avid waterfowl hunter. So I have some, right? But Cashman gets so damn hung up on his damn value that I can easily picture yet another deadline passing that Cashman boycott’s, or whatever & then holds a press conference lamenting the “cost”.
Felt like this winter was a good time to raise the floor of the rotation. Also felt like that could have been done relatively inexpensively.
If the Yanks flame out in the postseason again because they had to try & work with an opener – or whatever – instead of having a viable option to actually start it’ll be kind of annoying.
@Top Jimmy- I think by signing Cory Kluber and trading for Jameson Taillon that Cashman definitely addressed the rotation. The Yankees really just need one to perform. If one of these pitchers can win 15 games their set.
My prediction is Kluber is gone before the end of the season. Hope I’m wrong because I like the guy from way back with the Padres, but I think he is done.
Is there any possibility of getting Luis Castillo away from Cincinnati. Of all the names I saw in trade rumors he was the biggest difference maker.
Yankees no longer have anything to trade for any veteran of real value. Deivi Garcia is ultimately a #4 or #5 starter at best. It would surprise no one if Clarke Schmidt and Jordan Montgomery ultimately become long relievers. Yankee farm system is now below average.
You trying to replete this on multiple threads doesn’t make it any more true. Garcia, Schmidt, and Montgomery absolutely still have trade value. Dominguez while young would get a lot of teams attention. Same goes for wells. Again a below average farm does not mean a farm without any good prospects. The bigger question is would the Yankees be willing to part with enough of their young talent to bring in a veteran pitcher like Castillo. The answer to that is likely no.
How hard is it to understand that Garcia, Schmidt and Montgomery ARE NOT going to bring back a pitcher the caliber of Luis Castillo! Quit looking at Yankee players through ridiculous Yankee Goggles! The only way they bring back pitching in a trade is in a straight salary dump ….. Yankees have made it clear they ain’t paying the tax. Castillo, German Marquez ….. any of these studs who ain’t on a bloated free agent contract ain’t coming to the Yankees. They don’t have the talent to offer!!!!
Very Barry… the hate is very strong, and fairly disillusioned, with you. I think you need to eat a snickers and relax.
One for one obviously not. But package a few of them together and throw in some an intriguing position player or two and it would get people listening. Why don’t you take off your yankee hating glasses and actually look up some of the players on the farm system. You might realize that player value is about more than “I saw a guy pitch once and I don’t like the team he plays for so he’s bad and nobody wants him.” I’m not looking at anything through yankee glasses, I’m just stating facts and your yankee hating can’t handle them.
Youre second point is actually the only valid thing I’ve seen you say… the tax will be a problem in acquiring most pitchers because there is not a lot of breathing room there. It would basically have to be yanks give several players and just get the one pitcher in return with no one else attached. Personally I think it’s crazy if the Yankees get to the trade deadline and look like they’re one SP away from a potential WS to not go for it because of the tax but I guess we’ll see how things play out.
@Baseballallday- nobody is mentioning Luis Severino is coming back in early summer. He will be the Yankees #2 behind Cole if there are no set backs. The Yankees can get a German Marquez if they have to by the deadline without giving up Jasson Dominguez. Dominguez will not be traded. The Yanks would go over the luxury tax at the deadline if they are 1 pitcher away from going to a World Series. Your right it would be a 3-1 trade or 4-1 trade, like it was when they acquired Jameson Taillon.
The problem is assuming no set backs… Which is all we’ve seen from sevy. I agree that they could get someone like Marquez without giving up Dominguez and that they likely won’t part with him even if that was the ask. My point was more that they have prices to trade which this very berry character has convinced himself they dont.
But overall if things workout a rotation of Cole, severino, Kluber, and Taillon pitching to potential and in full health is as good as any rotation out there. I’m just skeptical we’re getting the A version of any of these guys or that they’ll actually stay on the field. I love Kluber but it’s not hard to imagine him being tulo part 2…
@MurderersRow27- well said!
Definitely seems like they need more pitchers named Luis and if you’re going to have another one, Castillo is the best choice.
@VinScullysSon- the Blue Jays need Luis Castillo and Jake Odorizzi a lot more then the Yankees do. Not sure how Dunedin thinks they are winning the AL East? Smh
A Dominguez package can get them Castillo or Marquez. That’s about it though
@bot- no desire to trade Jasson Dominguez, unless Mike Trout or Juan Soto is coming back in the trade.
i gotta say, this dude is way hyped for a guy without a pro game under his belt yet.
Right. Sell high or u end up w Royce Lewis
Rather have Tanaka over Kluber.
No.
I loved Tanaka, but he’s slipping. At this point in time, Kluber is the better choice. Tanaka made the right move in going back to Japan. I think he would have been treated badly in 2021 by MLB batters.
* And I’m not saying Kluber will be the answer, just that he’s the better choice right now.
The only thing the Yankees have to fear, and not just in the rotation, is the injury bug. They have been incredibly unlucky that way the past 2 years. I know there are serious question marks in the pitching staff, but there is a lot of potential upside, too. Plus you have Severino coming back before the AS break, which is like making a great deadline trade. Look, it’s not Pettitte-Wells-Cone-ElDuque, but it is very intriguing. I’m just glad we’re playing baseball!!
Unlucky can explain a couple of injuries but there’s more to the story given the volume of injuries the team has encountered and who says 21 will be any different? Severino is the ultimate wild card in that his stuff was undeniable. Yet, he still has a lot to prove.
I love it when all these haters are trashing the Yankee rotation. They will be invisible towards the end of the season. Trust me
At the end of the season the Yankee haters will be invisible because we will all be focused on teams like the White Sox who are actually in the playoffs, and not teams like the Yankees who will be trying to figure out how they can once again be a playoff team. Yankee trajectory is headed downward. Injuries could very well accelerate this franchise into a rebuild as soon as next year. Listen to what I am telling you.
@Very Barry- if you we’re a betting man I would definitely tell you to put all your $ on the Yankees winning the AL East and getting to the World Series this season. Be careful with the Chi-Sox seriously. Ask yourself what kind of post-season experience do they really have?
I am absolutely a betting man. I am in a legal state and I got action EVERY night. I am ABSOLUTELY taking the UNDER on the Yankee win total! Easy Money!!!
@Yanks4life-
Yanks have the second best World Series odds according to Las Vegas. We’re a good team. Those that ascertain otherwise are just generically hating. Dealing with that stuff comes with being a Yankee fan, man. All part of the fun.
They’ll be trotting out the same old “takes” next year this time, too. & we’ll be a World Series contender. Again.
I agree the yankee rotation will be invisible towards the end of the season.
But then I stayed awake during Language Arts class. Barely.
Y4L,
I’m bot and here daily. Yanks are not a title contender and this rotation is worse than last years which wasn’t very good. Players like voit Sanchez Stanton judge LeMahieu Urshela have all had their career years and will never be that good again.
Red Sox already seen the writing on the wall and started their rebuild. But the New York pride is thick so yanks will keep chasing wild card spots while never separating themselves from Toronto or TB. Looking bad this year and worse the next unless they start spending 250 mil a season.
Looking forward to carrying this convo on w ya as season progresses ; D
I disagree the rotation looks worse. They really only lost Tanaka. Even if Kluber, taillon, severino don’t all stay healthy (which they probably won’t) the combination might be able to match tanakas innings and output.
Also to say players like dj and judge had career years and are never going to be that good again is based on absolutely no evidence. DJ was great in Colorado and his first two years in New York. Why do we think he’ll never be that good again? Judge had a great rookie season and has been pretty much injured since? Why do we think he isn’t capable of reproducing that if he can stay on the field?
When I look at the Yankees the talent or having the pieces isn’t the issue. If all guys stay healthy and play up to their potential, it’s hard to see anything less than they make it to the WS (and then probably lose to the Dodgers).
It’s really not New York pride. Why would New York go into a rebuild with the core of players they have right now? Why take a team that is constantly getting to the ALDS/ ALCS and tear it down instead of looking for that one or two difference makers that would get them there? Especially looking at the rest of the division… the Red Sox and orioles don’t look especially good and should be fighting for 4th/5th place, the rays lost some talent in the offseason, and the jays look strong but are young and also need pitching. This is not a time for the Yankees to rebuild when the division is theirs for the taking. Once you get to the post season anything can happen. But you do have to get there…
The only thing that gives this merit to me is health. They’ve proven 2 years in a row that these guys can’t stay on the field so why do we think it will be different this year? Especially when all the pitchers added have their own health questions. And as last year showed, I don’t think there is enough talent for the reserves to carry this team if (when?) everyone goes down again.
Worse or the same quality – it’s still not a great rotation. Great pen, and royals won it w their great pen but that’s all they got.
DJ will produce no doubt but to expect him to hit 340 w 25 homers is ridiculous based off his career stats. Unless yank hitters get a boost rest of us arent privy too- no way he keeps that up. And Judge is a 1 year wonder. It’s been 4 years since hit scored or drove in a 100+ runs or hit more than 30 bombs plus he was never that highly of regarded prospect.
Injuries or no- it’s not an impressive roster. Not championship worthy and nothing should ever be considered acceptable than a championship roster. Yankee fans need to raise their standards
I’d buy the same but I honestly think the rotation has improved. Kluber pre injuries was one of the best in the game and Taillon was impressive. Plus you gotta hope severino isn’t on the bench for an entire 3rd straight season. That’s three talented pitchers you hope to have going by the all star break. Even if just 1 or 2 workout that’s an upgrade over Paxton and happ who gave essential no production or negative production last year. Tanaka was always solid and will be missed but it’s hard to call him irreplaceable… between the above guys I mentioned and some of the younger guys coming up. Obviously there are questions in the rotation but really not worse than last year in my opinion.
I wouldn’t call judge a one year wonder since he mashes every time he’s on the field. I think you’re the only one I’ve ever heard even suggest judge isn’t a top talent. He is. I’m sorry, but he is… His problem is he can’t stay healthy. He isn’t on the field enough to hit 30 HR. His pace when you look at the the number of HR he hits when is healthy suggests he would be on target to be in the 20-30 ballpark.
And DJ may not hit 25 homers but a batting average consistently in the low .300 is doable if not expected for him. Plus you can expect a boost in his HR numbers from the short porch in right and he goes oppo all the time.
The yankee honestly quite obviously have an impressive roster at full health. I think you’re deluding yourself to say otherwise. I personally don’t think this team as is can beat the Dodgers but I see them having as good of a chance as any team to get through the AL and make the WS. Then you see what happens. I don’t think yankee fans need to raise their standards. You’re talking about a fan base that expects to win every year. But also being realistic and knowing that isn’t going to happen isn’t a flaw. I mean look at the product Boston out on the field last year? Or what they’re doing this year? At least the Yankees are trying to compete and have a real show at winning.
Royals have a quality roster too. And they ain’t winning it either.
It’s not raising your standards to expect to win a ws year in and year out when u r the yanks. They have 27 championships. Most by any college or professional team. That’s the standard and if that’s not your standard- it’s bc u lowered it to justify this poorly constructed roster. 205 million will keep em in a 3 way race w Tampa and Jays. Meh…..
The single biggest problem for the pitchers who have had Tommy John surgery occurs when their name is not Tommy John. So there’s that.
By June, they’ll be calling BIG SEXY!!!!!!
He’ll be busy pitching in the Mexican league then haha
Lots of potential but also lots of big question marks surrounding this group. I’m a little surprised the Yankees didn’t at least bring in a couple of depth options (though the did sign Jhoulys Chacin). Taillon and German haven’t taken the mound since ’19 (albeit for much different reasons) Kluber may as well be in the same boat as he threw all of 18 pitches last season. Montgomery hasn’t been all that reliable either. Maybe Severino finds his way back at some point but the Yankees are going to have to lean heavily on the young pitchers til the trade deadline if things don’t go as planned (which they rarely do)
I think a lot of people overlook Domingo German. He was really good in 2019 before his suspension. He was suspended for domestic violence, as he should have been, but that shouldn’t make his performance worse than it was in 2019.
The Yankees have a lot of depth. They also have plenty of question marks like most teams not named the Dodgers. What I like best about the Yankees rotation options vs others is that they have a lot of potential upside. With a little luck, and some good health, this could be a nice rotation though it may require 7 SP throwing 90-120 innings behind Cole.
Forecasting The Yankees Rotation: Cloudy with a chance of meatballs.
@whyhayzee- only thing that will be invisible is you when the Yankees win the AL East this season and get to the World Series. So stop with all your Yankee hating.
Indians fan.
Who knew that we had some “rivalry” with them. Well…they did. Yankees fans? Not so much.
Just one fan base among all the others whom we’ve torn the heart out of & stomped all over. To us, that’s just business as usual. No hard feelings. I guess it’s different when you’re on the receiving end.
We wouldn’t really know about all that, though.
🙂
Yanks lost Tanaka Paxton and Happ and replaced them w 2 dudes who didn’t pitch last year and the same slew of dudes who couldn’t break the rotation with last crop. And Cole is over rated. MLB crack down on pine tar use and Cole isn’t a top 20 pitcher in league.
On top of that, their homer heavy lineup gets less intimidating with every aging year. This yankee core is no title contender and no where close to dodgers.
The rays lost less w Morton and snell and are reigning division champs. Doubt yanks can over come that this year
Paxton was injured all season and happ sucked. Even a washed up Kluber and Taillon if they can stay on the field will be better than that. You don’t have to think Cole is the best pitcher in the league (I personally don’t) but he’s very clearly top 20 and I’m not sure how that’s a discussion.
You really think losing snell and Morton is less than losing Tanaka and happ??? That seems just crazy to me. You really cant count Paxton in a comparison to last year since he had an era over 6 and then didn’t play… even coming off of a down year snell is a great pitcher and clearly better than happ
Also I’m willing to bet pitchers disagree with your idea that the lineup gets less intimidating every year since none of the guys you mentioned are old. I think you meant to say this homerun hitting lineup strikes out too much and can’t stay healthy which makes them less intimidating. Because when they’re all healthy and playing well I don’t know a lot of pitchers that
Why is everything Red Sox,Yankees, you know MLB there are other teams of interest throughout the league, so tired of the over flow writing of the East all the time.
This rotation is garbage after Cole. They won’t win 90 games with this staff, add in the Injured first outfield and boom it’s over.
This rotation is shaky at best. On paper it looks promising but I want to see to believe it
After Cole, there are way too many question marks to have any reasonable idea of what to expect. Unless you’re a massive homer, there’s no possible way you can be anything less than “a little worried.”
Yanks have way more pitching this year than last year, pitching is outlier! Time for some other teams have to deal with injuries!
@slider32- I laugh at all these delusional people on this site seriously. Your right the Yankees have a ton more pitching then they did last season. Kluber, Taillon, German and Sevvy back in the early summer without any set backs. And keep in mind the schedule is going from 60 games to 162 games. That’s 102 more games then 2020. This will definitely benefit the Yankees. Losing Tanaka, Paxton, and Happ won’t hurt this team.
The only delusional people on here are the ones expecting high end performances from Kluber/Taillon/Sevvy. It absolutely *could* happen, but it’s very unlikely with none of them pitching more than 40 innings over the last 2 years combined. Big question marks at best.
German might be ok though if he can stay out of trouble and/or his teammates don’t run him out of town for being a terrible person. His peripherals have never been anything special though.
fewer than 40 starting pitchers in MLB history have a lower career WHIP than tanaka
he never got enough love and will be seriously missed this season
@dkidd- if Tanaka is missed and stays healthy in Japan this season, there is no reason why he won’t come back to the Yankees in 2022. He has an opt out in his contract in Japan, and he never wanted to leave the Yankees and doesn’t want to pitch for any other team in the major leagues. So it’s definitely not out of the question he returns next season.
agreed. the opt out reveals his thinking. i’ll actually be surprised if he doesn’t pitch for the yankees in 2022
@dkidd- kudos to you. I definitely think you got something there. If Taillon, Kluber, or German don’t work out. I would think Tanaka would come back with the Yankees without a flinch. Don’t be surprised if the Yankees and other teams go with a 6-man rotation this season.
OK, please Yankees stop the PC BS with German. He needs to be at a bare minimum the #2 starter in this otherwise mediocre rotation. He was our best starter two years ago but was conveniently shut down right before the playoffs and then missed ALL of last season for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Seems like the Pro-Laker League Execs are involved in MLB too. Just STOP already with the Montgomery, Schmidt and Garcia crap or even Tallion. Domingo is so much better than those scrubs it’s not even funny.
Cole
German
Kluber
Tallion
Monty and then Severino as #2 once he gets over his chronic vaginitis to be our #2-3 starter.
Garcia to work on his game at AAA where Brett Gardner ought to be but at least Garcia is young and hasn’t proved to be a massive underachiever year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after f’ing year like our so called “4th outfielder”. Jay Bruce seems like Babe Ruth by comparison to “Lightweight Brett.” As does Tauchman. Time to wake the hell up and put the best possible team on the field MINUS the politics.
Let’s GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!