Feb. 18: The Mariners have formally announced their one-year deal with Paxton. Right-hander Andres Munoz, who is recovering from Tommy John surgery, was placed on the 60-day IL to open a roster spot.
Feb. 13: The Seattle Mariners have an agreement in place with James Paxton, per Chad Dey of Sportsnet650 (via Twitter). The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal confirms the deal. Paxton will make $8.5MM on a one-year deal with bonuses upping the potential value to $10MM, per ESPN’s Jeff Passan (via Twitter). “Big Maple” will earn an additional $750K with 10 games and $750K at 20 games, adds MLB Network’s Jon Heyman. Paxton is represented by the Boras Corporation.
By signing for just one season, Paxton will have the opportunity to prove his good health and return to the open market. It’s no small thing that he’ll get to do so in an environment where he’s comfortable, having made T-Mobile Park his home from 2013 to 2018. Assuming good health, Paxton should have no trouble reaching those performance incentives to make this contract a clean $10MM.
Health hasn’t always been Paxton’s strong suit, of course. Before missing most of 2020 with a left flexor strain, Paxton spent time on the injured list with knee inflammation, left forearm contusions twice, lower back inflammation, a strained pectoral muscle, a left elbow contusion, a strained tendon in his middle finger, as well as twice hitting the shelf in 2014 with a left Latissimus dorsi muscle strain (read: back). He made just five starts for the Yankees this season after 29, 28, 24, and 20 the four years prior. Despite the litany of ailments, Paxton had largely persevered before missing most of 2020.
It’s worth mentioning, the Mariners have been clear about their intentions to run out a six-man rotation in 2021. Still, a healthy season would get Paxton well past the 20 games threshold, and the additional time between starts is more likely to help Paxton make it to 20 games than hurt. The 32-year-old will slot near the top of the Mariners’ rotation along with fellow southpaws Marco Gonzales, Yusei Kikuchi, and Justus Sheffield. Right-handers Chris Flexen and Justin Dunn are expected to round out the six-man crew.
For the Mariners, the deal has little downside. Seattle still has a payroll under $100MM and their long-term flexibility intact. Meanwhile, they get to return Paxton to the team that drafted him in the fourth round of the 2010 draft. He made 102 starts over six seasons for the Mariners, earning himself a reputation as a starter with frontline potential by way of a 3.58 ERA/3.13 FIP over 582 1/3 innings to that point. The Mariners dealt him to the Yankees following the 2018 season for Dom Thompson-Williams, Erik Swanson, and Sheffield. The Mariners will now enjoy at least one season of Paxton and Sheffield in the rotation together.
On the diamond, Paxton has the potential to move the needle for the Mariners. Limited to just 20 1/3 inning in 2020, Paxton entered free agency on the heels of an uninspiring 6.64 ERA. His 90.7 mph opponents’ exit velocity was a career-high, and his average heater dipped by about three miles per hour. A 32.1 percent groundball rate continued a two-year spike in flyball rate, which led to more home runs allowed in the Bronx. Prior to joining the Yankees, however, Paxton had a 44.7 percent groundball rate.
Many of Paxton’s other metrics, however, were more bullish. He registered a 4.37 FIP/3.88 SIERA, typically-strong 28.9 percent strikeout rate and a 7.8 percent walk rate that was better than the league average of 9.2 percent. At this price point, betting on a return to his career norms is a reasonable gamble for the M’s, who continue to position themselves as a potential sleeper in a year when the AL West looks more wide open than ever.
km
Well look at that.
PoloGrounds62
Great news for the Mets. Sign Odorizzi or Walker or both. And Justin Wilson.
RobM
I mean, can the Mets sign any player once another team shows interest? They did sign McCann and May early on in what now appears to be inflated contracts, as it appears they were bidding against themselves in both cases based on what they paid.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Teams should be offering a contract that reflects the true value that team has for that player….
Not trying to cheat a player by negotiating in bad faith……
Low balling your customers is never good.. makes buttheads feel good about themselves and that’s about it….
Honesty and good faith go a long, long ways…..
Rking
No, sir, I do not bite my thumb at you, sir, but I bite my thumb. Dipito to Cashman.
kylegocougs
Love it!
17dizzy
The Cardinals should have give Paxton the same offer!!! He could have solidified the their rotation.
Carlos Martinez’s Brain is fried—— yet the Cards still try to throw him out there as a starter every year!!! Every year he blows up and is back in the bullpen.
The Cardinals could have easily deferred 8 million of Carpenters 18 million and gotten Paxton. At least Carpenter could be contributing something to the team that way!!! He can’t hit since he tried to make himself into a Babe Ruth.
mlbnyyfan
Should of gone to the Blue Jays
jdgoat
I was really hoping for that. He might not be reliable but he by far has the most upside of this free agent class considering the contract.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Glad he didn’t land in Toronto, serious.
He’s kind of maddening to be a fan of. Guys hurt a lot. But…man…when he’s on he can sling it.
Can start in the playoffs, too.
I’m surprised he didn’t go to a more realistic contender.
Finlander
Wouldn’t even surprised to see him moved to a contender at the deadlne. Minnesota and Tampa Bay seem to be potential candidates as they could make use of a lefty slinger in the rotation.
RedSox4Life4ever
Should have used correct grammar.
Deadguy
What’s grammar? I’ve heard of gram crackers, and the Grammy Awards, but this is the first I’ve ever heard of this grammar. Is it punctual and punctuality with its punctualness?
BobGibsonFan
Grammar is the old lady that makes grandpa grunt at night.
philliesphan77
Another “should of” sighting, I love it! Keep em coming
99 Captain Judge
@mlbnyyfan- yeah, but so glad he didn’t. Blue Jays definitely look like a 2nd or 3rd place team right now in the AL East.
pensacola sox fan
Surprise surprise
Cambio
Dipoto said they would try and sign him when he was traded to the Yankees.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Gomer Pyle USMC
pensacola sox fan
Surprise surprise!
Deadguy
Isn’t this how the Yankees ended up with Glyber Torres? Traded Chapman to the Cubs in 2016 in exchange for Torres then Chapman resigned with the Yankees in free agency? Good move Jerry
myaccount
Yeah, but the Cubs won a World Series with Chapman.
SodoMojo90
Yeah except he wasn’t talking about the Cubs, He was talking about how the Yankees got Gleyber Torres. The Cubs winning the World Series has absolutely nothing to do with that.
bravesfan28
not suprised
Rsox
Good place to go and rebuild value. If he pitches well and the team is out of contention he gets traded at the deadline. If not, its Seattle no one will notice
solaris602
Shocked me because SEA has not been in play for ANYBODY this winter. There are a lot of good things about this, and I’m all for it
Stevil
This made tons of sense for Seattle and James. He was comfortable there, he’s familiar wuth the training & medical staff, and he’ll be a part of a 6-man rotation getting more rest with less pressure.
Now they just need to ink Walker and find a solid LHH…
ayrbhoy
You’re missing three words on the end there Mr Stevil- ……and sign Rosenthal
ayrbhoy
Time to watch a couple of Paxton replays- the no-hitter in TOR and his 16 K/0’s v OAK from the week before
HeedFrodo
You need to give Walker 3 years though with about $10 Million each year. That could be a rough sell with arms coming up from the minors.
Stevil
Rosenthal was in my offseason plan, but I would be surprised if Seattle spent that much on a reliever at this point.
Stevil
Kirby and Hancock are probably 2 years out and Kikuchi will likely be gone after 2022.
Benjamin560
Kirby should be, arriving in 2022 with Hancock in 2023.
Also in the wings are Brandon Williamson, Isaiah Campbell, Juan Then, Sam Carlson, Levi Stroudt, and Connor Phillips.
SodoMojo90
I was really hoping for Walker. I have a feeling that whoever signs him, is going to enjoy watching a breakout year
SodoMojo90
Then is the stud of that second group of pitchers
Stevil
Not likely before September 2022.
Don’t forget his only pro experience was short-season. He’ll likely start this season in Everett (which is now high-A).
If Seattle intends to contend next year, they’ll need external help.
Prospectnvstr
Don’t forget about the obvious name that you left out. Logan Gilbert should be coming up by midseason this year.
Dock_Elvis
Seattle not being in play is what scares me because DiPoto cant sit still.
despicable_you
Big maple is a pile of syrup
jury_rigger
What does this even mean
despicable_you
Guy is a walking hospital
User 2802304835
Damn 🙁
CaAngels
Here’s to hoping Arte didn’t forget to pay Perry’s cell phone bill…
Rsox
Angels added Cobb and Quintana and Jacob Faria (minor league contract) Perry’s not adding any more starting pitching
CaAngels
All due respect I hope you’re wrong!
Rsox
Unfortunately i don’t think i am
YourDreamGM
Angels have a perfectly fine rotation of mid to back end starters. They are all good to go. Don’t know why angel fans expect them to bring in playoff caliber starters.
SwingtheFNbat
Because Paxton has a 50/50 chance of even being available in the playoffs if necessary, enough said.
Halo11Fan
Fifty/fifty is darn good. I’ll take a 50/50 against pitchers like Quintana and Cobb who have a one in ten chance of being good.
SwingtheFNbat
50/50 chance of health, who says he’s even going to be any good on top of that.
SodoMojo90
Right? Year after year they decide to not bring in any quality pitching so why do Angeles fans gather here every off-season to speculate about what pitcher they’ll never get lol
SwingtheFNbat
@Sodo, Paxton isn’t that bad of a gamble at 8m+, for some teams. Simply put, he’s not the gamble the Angels want or need right now. They’ve had to many pitching injuries lately, and I see them trying to stay away from these type pitchers for a bit.
The big question is. If Paxton is healthy and is pitching good. What team will he be playing for this summer? You know the reason why. 😉
birdsfan415
Archer, Paxton, and Arrieta all returning leaves a good feeling
Moneyballer
They all return battered and beaten, shells of their former selves.
BobGibsonFan
Beaten, but a lot richer.
Barkerboy
Back home where the pot is stronger. Good for him.
slidepiece
Better pain management and focus.
Eatdust666
Also a hell of a lot less pressure.
Travelberries
Eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh
letimmysmoke55
why?
skrockij89
Now they need to sign Walker!
amk1920
This has to set the record for players going back to their former teams in an off-season.
amk1920
Paxton, Jason Castro, Eaton, Bryan Shaw, Minor, Archer, Morton, Arrieta, Morrow, Brock Stewart. Guess familiarity makes a big deal.
Rsox
“You can never go home again, Oatman. But…i guess you can shop there”
nicketz
whats done is done, just forget about the whole thing!
love that movie
Orel Saxhiser
It makes you appreciate Edwin Jackson. Of the 13 teams he played for, he returned to a former team just once (Detroit in his final season).
Moneyballer
That’s not saying much for Edwin. Every team he’s been on didn’t want a return of services. He was always a talent that could overproduce his contract especially in his later years. A cheap source of innings!
jediknight
He did two separate tours of duty in Washington, as well.
Tsand
Wade Davis as well
tdotjays
Interesting. The only logic I can apply to this would be that contending teams maybe did not want to commit money even on a one year deal, given that he only topped out at 94 MPH in his showing. When he is right he tops out at 99 to 100 MPH. Perhaps, Mariners are taking a flyer and giving Paxton an opportunity to prove himself. If he does, then Mariners can get a decent return during the trade deadline. If not, no big deal… it’s only an $8.5 million guarantee on a one year term. Not the worst gamble.
Cambio
When Dipoto traded Paxton to the Yankees, Dipoto mentioned that they would likely take a run at re-signing him in free agency.
tdotjays
Well, Dipoto is a man of his word, I guess. Good on him. Never really like Paxton in pintstripes…Mariners jersey suits him a lot better.
muskie73
Starting with baseball’s youngest roster, last year Seattle finished with the ninth-best record in a league that sent eight teams to the postseason.
The Mariners might not be far off,
Cambio
In two years they could have all of these guys on the MLB roster: Kelenic, Lewis, France, White, Rodriguez, Haniger, Gilbert, Gonzales, Hancock, Sheffield, Kirby, Dunn. Thats not even counting the bullpen where a healthy Giles could be a lockdown closer. Noelvi Marte will likely still be in the minors but the future is bright!
A-A-Ron
Might have a closer coming back from TJ surgery from the Padres Aaron Nola deal as well, Andres Munoz, before midseason
SodoMojo90
Haniger will not be here with those other three in the outfield. That would be asinine
steelerbravenation
They are not that far off. May even be this year but 2022 seems more like it.
Still think they need another bat either DH or 2B
And possibly another bullpen arm
If Paxton & Hanigar can stay healthy they can make some noise
YourDreamGM
Pitchers aren’t maxed out yet. 94 is excellent.
Deleted Userrr
I thought trading a guy away was supposed to make it uncomfortable for him to return????
YourDreamGM
I am still gathering the funding for more detailed research. But with the 40 years I have spent dedicating my life’s work to free agency. It looks as though players will usually go to whoever gives them the most money.
angt222
I knew it. Good fit for Seattle at the right price.
analyzer87
Solid deal. Jays need starters badly. Don’t get why they were not in on this unless they see something we don’t. Or has something else they are looking into
slidepiece
Maybe Paxton didn’t want to pitch in TOR.
Although they are a great team, on paper, it’s still a rotten park and division to try to build up your numbers for free agency and a large long-term contact next year.
smuzqwpdmx
Doesn’t hurt that he lives in Washington and was born and raised just over the border from Seattle. He may be Canadian, but the Mariners have always been his local team.
99 Captain Judge
The Big Maple is back where it lst started. Was really injured last year. If he is healthy he should have a good year with the M’s. Yes, Dunedin was sleeping. They might have to sign the 2 Jake’s now. Jake Odorizzi and Jake Arrieta.
C-Daddy
Arrieta signed with the Cubs.
99 Captain Judge
@C-Daddy- okay, I guess just Jake Odorizzi then.
MetsFan22
I’m not saying the Mets should have signed him. I trust that the Mets know what they are doing but… that being said. Sandy wake up lol.
Moneyballer
So I guess you can now say the Mariners got Justus Sheffield for free! Not a bad deal!
Dock_Elvis
No they gave up Paxton’s innings in NY.
muskie73
FWIW last year Justus Sheffield posted 1.6 fWAR, valued at $12.8 million, while James Paxton posted 0.3 fWAR, valued at $2.5 million.
Seattle have five years of team control over Sheffield (and now one year over Paxton).
wayneroo
Innings that would have been worthless to Seattle. They weren’t going anywhere with Paxton at the time anyway., and others pitched those innings that didn’t really mean anything..
SwingtheFNbat
It’s been a long, long, long time since there wasn’t meaningless innings for the M’s. 😉
Altuves Buzzer
Wtf jays
Wonder if he even wanted to come to Toronto (Dunedin) after history with Toronto.
google.ca/amp/s/tipofthetower.com/2017/06/10/the-o…
chicagofan1978
Why?
bigdaddyhacks
Great singing. The Mariners are coming
Cambio
Thanks. I didnt realize anyone was listening. I’m a regular Frank Sinatra in the shower.
Dock_Elvis
^^^^^ this takes the internet hahaha
PeteWard8
Sinatra sang National Anthem at Tommy Lasordas first game as Dodger manager at home and his voice cracked during the singing of it.
chicagofan1978
Who was signing it?
Mariners_Mojo
Right on this is great news! Welcome back Paxton thank you Dipoto. Now we have Paxton and iwakuma back on to Taijuan walker! Too bad we let Felix go to baltimore
mlbnyyfan
How long before Trout demands a trade. His team is literally doing nothing. I thought last year they get Wheeler and this year Bauer. Judge, Sanchez, Andujar, Garcia, Schmidt and others for Trout. Trout belongs in New York and play in October every year.
Cambio
Sanchez and Andujar have zero trade value.
YourDreamGM
Trout was more concerned about getting that guaranteed money than winning.
Deleted Userrr
Trout will never demand a trade. He knew his team was a dumpster fire when he signed that extension. Nothing has changed.
BobGibsonFan
A multi millionaire who is a hero living in southern california.
Poor guy.
chicagofan1978
Wait you think judge would get traded for trout?
Ohtani-san
Mlbnyyfan reported. Delete your account.
prov356
mlbnyyfan – Wow. I haven’t seen any of the “trade Trout” goof balls in a while. Where have you guys been?
BTW, Trout chose to play his career in Anaheim. There was no duress.
SodoMojo90
Not sure how much Iwakuma is going to help the rotation out this year when he’s working in the minors with pitchers
HalosHeavenJJ
Seattle grabs the upside pitching play we desperately needed. Well done.
driftcat28 2
Good deal for Seattle. Paxton will almost certainly be dealt at the deadline (barring an injury). Disappointed he didn’t end up in Toronto
wayneroo
He might at the deadline, never know.
Halo11Fan
That’s a great point. I’m sure the plan is to deal him, but plan “B” happens quite a bit in baseball.
Dars
Yankees had intel on both Paxton and Kluber and they chose to sign Kluber for more than Paxton signed. That ought tell you everything!
24TheKid
It doesn’t.
Dock_Elvis
Nope…says nothing.
BobGibsonFan
That same Intel signed Paxton last year…
Orel Saxhiser
Here are the remaining 17 free-agent starting pitchers along with their 2021 age. I put them in groups of five for easier reading. Let me know if I missed any of these guys signing with a team. Regarding David Price, I think Andrew Friedman has played this market well. If the Dodgers kick in some money in a trade, Price is probably better than all of them.
Brett Anderson (33)
Tyler Anderson (31)
Homer Bailey (35)
Trevor Cahill (33)
Gio Gonzalez (35)
Cole Hamels (37)
Ariel Jurado (25)
Mike Leake (33)
Tommy Milone (34)
Jake Odorizzi (31)
Rick Porcello (32)
Tyson Ross (34)
Jeff Samardzija (36)
Anibal Sanchez (37)
Matt Shoemaker (34)
Julio Teheran (30)
Taijuan Walker (28)
YourDreamGM
Still some good upside.
Price has surplus value. No need to worry about his salary.
Orel Saxhiser
I don’t want to lose Price, but that’s the kind of deal I can see Friedman making: Price and some cash for one or two prospects depending on how much cash is in the deal. The Phillies would be an interesting candidate since Dombrowski traded for him with the Tigers and signed him as a free agent in Boston. The Phils could use a mid-rotation arm.
Jaysfan1981
Jays might welcome Price back. Unsure of his contract status but if it’s 3 years or less they could easily assume it and give lesser prospects.
Would he be a legit #2 now after missing a full year? and he’s not getting any younger
PeteWard8
Cey Hey- Price very limited innings in 2019 and nothing last year. Do you think they will turn him loose or will they be very careful with his workload A lot of pitchers in the same boat. Interested to know how the workloads will be handled. What say you?
Orel Saxhiser
Jaysfan1981,
He has two years at $64 million. Red Sox paying $32. The Dodgers picking up a chunk of the remaining $32 would make it do-able. If the Jays are going to have Ryu as their #1, then they need to get him a sidekick. Then it’s just a matter of which of the other starters seize spots in the rotation. So, it would be Ryu, Price, Pearson, and two of the others. Depending on how it shakes out, they can add another SP at the trade deadline, like maybe Sonny Gray if the Reds decide to punt.
Orel Saxhiser
Not sure. A problem with trying to trade him is he’d not throwing for teams because he already has a team. So, it would be a leap of faith to move him. The Dodgers would have to kick in quite a bit of money.
Re your point about workloads: That’s going to be quite a story this season. Pitching injuries have been off the charts in recent years. With last season’s condensed schedule, there’s a chance it will be horrible. That’s Price’s value to the Dodgers. I was trying to figure out the opening day roster a few hours ago. It’s hard to imagine both May and Gonsolin being on it. There’s a chance neither won’t. A nice problem to have.
BigDaddyB
Phillies can still use a starter… was hoping it was going to be Paxton.
Now hoping for Walker or Odorizzi.
Hoping for Rosenthal too in the BP.
Dumpster Divin Theo
The last one is not a group of 5
Orel Saxhiser
No kidding.
Oddvark
The MLBTR list includes Zack Godley (31), but they don’t list Jurado.
Aaron Sanchez is also looking for work and has reportedly been throwing for teams.
Orel Saxhiser
Thanks. The list I used had Godley as a reliever. Sanchez could be a shrewd signing for a team with deep pitching. While other teams are looking for another SP at the deadline, you would have Sanchez ready for the stretch run. And you didn’t have to give up prospects to get him.
smuzqwpdmx
Zack Godley is best used for batting practice.
Cap & Crunch
Id just wait till deadline to make a call on Price-
Who knows if getting under 250 is even a goal?
Could be a great guy come playoffs outta the pen
wayneroo
Kind of surprised Leake is still available. He’s a good, solid mid-rotation guy that shows up every day. Would think he’d be snapped up at a reasonable cost.
Prospectnvstr
Would like to see Ariel Jurado get a real chance on a contending team.
Ronk325
I’m going to miss seeing him in pinstripes but this was inevitable after the Yankees added Kluber and Taillon. A lot of Yankees fans soured on Paxton last year but he wasn’t close to being healthy. He could have opted out of the season because of COVID and used that time to rest up but he tried to push through and contribute to the team. Paxton definitely has health issues but he’s still filthy when he’s on and a lot of people are forgetting that
Rangers29
M’s > Angels
prov356
Because the M’s signed one pitcher? I think that’s more hope on your part.
Stevil
Why would you assume that?
24TheKid
Now this is some great news.
Justanotherstrosfan
Really thought the Astros would make a run at him on a one year, 10m deal. Would have loved to see what Brent Stron could have done with his spin rate.
Dock_Elvis
Made it sticky like maple.
houkenflouken
Great news. Definitely needed that. M’s will probably add some more minor league deals as during spring training
IjustloveBaseball
I don’t want to say the AL West is wide open, but there’s no clear juggernaut in that division. Not necessarily a bad time for Seattle to test whether or not they can usher in a new era ahead of schedule — and this is the perfect type of signing.
Benjamin560
YES!!! Welcome back to the “Maple Grove” James!
its_happening
BC native near the Washington border. Close to home, close to family. Move makes sense for Paxton.
Seattle will be better than some expect. And they might not be finished.
Dumpster Divin Theo
His career should really take off. Eh?
its_happening
Dumpster are you looking for laughs? Ok.
Ha ha. That was very funny.
There. Validation.
Orel Saxhiser
The rotation has a chance to be pretty solid by 2022. Some good young talent elsewhere, too. Improve this year, make a run at ending the playoff drought in ’22. That seems to be the target.
kdevry
Yas! Small miracles rn in the PNW
Jaysfan1981
A little disappointed Jays didn’t match or beat both the Giles and Paxton deals
Sure Giles isn’t pitching this year, but would be decent insurance if Yates doesn’t perform in the closers spot and the year is punted (assuming he comes back as near 100% as possible) Him and Yates would be a super Solid 8 9 combo
Come trade deadline and the M’s are sellers, if Paxton is anywhere near his old self the Jays will have to part with good prospects just to trade for him. Instead of just adding a million to the 2 year deal, or a large buyout on the 2nd year
Guess the hope is one of the young starters from COL or CIN in a trade now, not sure Walker is the answer but wouldn’t be surprised to see a similar deal for him in Toronto
Do the Jays spend prospect capital now or at the deadline for an Ace? You have to assume that’s the only legitimate trade peice they are after
Dock_Elvis
More Luis Castillo talk…I dont get it.
its_happening
Jaysfan they might sign Walker but beyond that the rotation is set. I would take a run at Price.
Deadline might be the case but what if the Jays are just at .500 and plenty out of it? Does it make sense to go all in? I know they did that in 2015 but I suspect the top teams will be playing at a higher level in 2021. I don’t want to see the Jays give up a trade piece or two they could’ve used now the way they did for Villar and Stripling.
mlbfan
Dipoto threw a curve with the payroll issue. Good signing Jerry.
Orel Saxhiser
Dipoto has done a good job with this rebuild. Timely since other teams in the division are in a state of flux. If I was a Mariners fan, I’d be excited about this season. By 2022, they might be really good. One player I’m really rooting for this year is Mitch Haniger. He can be a difference-maker.
coldbeer
James Paxton > Robbie Ray
Jays spent $8 mil on the wrong guy.
99 Captain Judge
@coldbeer- your 100% right.
MikeD26
Just last night I was thinking that teams like Seattle should be doing this kind of signing, get better for this season, and can get some prospects at midseason for him if not in contention.
bloomquist4hof
I’ll eat my words about spending I guess. Rotation looks decent. Bullpen looks ok.They could still use a bat or two. I still don’t think they compete but nice to see them try to win more games.
muskie73
Projections give little weight to 2020’s small samples when Seattle’s Dylan Moore, Ty France, Kyle Lewis and Kyle Seager posted OPS+ of 139, 129, 126 and 122. Those projected Seattle position starters will be complemented by Tom Murphy, who posted a 2019 OPS+ of 128 before missing last year with an injury, and Mitch Haniger, who posted an OPS+ of 139 in his 2018 All Star season before being sidelined with injuries.
Last year lefthanders Marco Gonzales, Justus Sheffield and Yusei Kikuchi combined for 4.7 fWAR in 30 starts. The Mariners will gamble with newcomers James Paxton and Chris Flexen in the rotation and have bolstered the bullpen with Rafael Montero, Keynan Middleton and Roenis Elias. The M’s will welcome Ken Giles in 2022.
Seattle has seven prospects on at least one current Top 100 list, including two in the Top 10. Last year the Mariners graduated four former Top 100 prospects.
The Mariners may be a year away but they’re headed in the right direction.
bloomquist4hof
I think projection systems like zips and steamer are antiquated likely playing catch up with changes in baseball but there’s a reason they don’t overweight small samples. That said Moore and France and Lewis have done nothing but hit and might be regulars now. However it’s likely not all the players keep playing at or near the level they’ve done. That’s not the way to project. If I had a gun to my head I’d call them a 75 win team right now that could win 85 or lose 100 depending on the way things go. I think the bigger issue with the bats is relying on White to not suck, even if he might still end up decent, and Long, Murphy, and Haniger to all be healthy and effective. They should probably bring in a bat or two just in case.
bloomquist4hof
As far as the long term projection, they look as good as anyone, I don’t disagree, I’m hopeful that at least by 2023 they should be decent again, hopefully sooner, there’s a good chance, but there’s lots of things that could go wrong or not as right as fans might hope and some of it likely will. What if Gilbert gets hurt or is ineffective? What is Kelenic is exposed in the Majors and maxes out as an average player? What if Rodriguez is a bust? Some of the next great Mariner’s team likely aren’t in the system, or we don’t know who they are, and some of the one’s we expect might not be what we hoped. It works that way. I’m not keen on projecting bullpens a year out, and just because X or Y has such and such OPS+ or WAR last year, or even years prior doesn’t mean they will, and usually will be worse going forward, particularly if those numbers are “good”. Looking at minor league stats (which Zips and Steamer do) help. Kyle Lewis didn’t show much until the majors. It’s likely the injury was the reason, and the changes in run environment were particularly beneficial to him, but there’s a reasonable chance he’s not good enough to be a regular on a playoff team. I suspect he’s good enough to be a regular for the M’s, but there’s a chance he’s not. Moore and France hit a ton in the minors and majors, so barring a set back, they probably continue to hit, Lewis too. Dunn’s lack of a good offspeed pitch could land him in the bullpen, where he might actually do something like Edwin Diaz, or he could fizzle. Sheffield looks like a solid mid rotation arm, lots of ways that could go, could find a new gear and be an ace, or get hurt or fizzle out, Gilbert looks like he could be good. Even short tern, Flexen and Margevicius might be solid starters now. So yes, lots of promise, but lots of downside, I guess I’m neither optimist or pessimist about them. They’re likely an up and coming team with lots of talent, that will likely hit plenty of speed bumps along the way and will need to adjust. I just think the idea they’re “almost there” is premature. It could easily be 2024-2025, or they could end up a perennial 80-85 win team before being forced to reboot again
Benjamin560
Hopefully we can find 3 decent OF’s in Haniger, Lewis, Kelenic, Rodriguez, Trammell, DeLoach, Fraley, or Bishop. Nothing is a given, but if I were a betting man…
bloomquist4hof
I like that group, but there’s issues, especially for this year. I think this is likely a make or break year for Fraley and Bishop. If they don’t perform or the scouts don’t see progress, they very well may hit the DFA waiver wire circuit sooner than later. Rodriguez is 2-3 years out from even being in the majors. Kelenic probably gets his cup of coffee but is likely a couple years from being a good regular. Could be now, but more likely it takes a couple years to reach that level. They also have Shed Long and Dylan Moore to add to the LF mix, so I think it can work, which is why I think a 1B/LF type is what they should target, I’m way more concerned about 1B, but getting someone to fill in LF would help a lot, especially since Moore can play 1B. The other position they might want to consider is 2B. A 2B/3B/SS type in case JP Crawford gets hurt or regresses or gets figured out by MLB pitching, or to let Long and Moore shift around the field a bit.
bloomquist4hof
I also wouldn’t be shocked if we got a surprise Haniger trade. I know the return wouldn’t be what fans want, but if they could turn him into 4-6 years of young player, even if that player isn’t all that good, just good enough to run out there with a little upside, I could see them doing it.
wayneroo
By 2023 (maybe before), our outfield will be Kelenic, Lewis and Rodriguez most likely barring injury. A Haniger trade wouldn’t shock me at all.
Benjamin560
A not very good player for Haniger????
Are you even listening to yourself?
bloomquist4hof
He doesn’t have much trade value at this point and it likely goes down from here. Sure he might actually be decent again, but hasn’t been healthy in years, has 2 years of control left and is already 30. If they could turn that into 4 to 6 years of someone in spitting distance of average, who is under 27, and has a smidge of upside, I wouldn’t be shocked if they jumped.
bloomquist4hof
I actually like Haniger alot. I just see if they can get a semi regular with more years of control they might just do it. Hes not likely to be on the next Mariners playoff team. He has as much chance of being toast as good again. I doubt they can get much but given that he doesn’t fit their time frame I could see them doing just that.
Flyby
Looking at the mariners expected rotation 4 out of 6 of them came to the mariners in one way or another from new york (sheffield and paxton from the yankees with flexen and dunn from the mets)
Kind of interesting … curious to see how they do.
MikeD26
Type*
Dorothy_Mantooth
I thought Paxton had a mid 90s fastball. 90.7mph last year was a career best? Kind of surprising…they should call him the Soft Maple instead.
RobM
I have absolutely no idea what TC is talking about here. Paxton’s four-seam fastball would hit 98 mph prior to 2020. His issue last year was loss of velocity. The 90.7 mph fastball wouldn’t be a career best, it would represent a career low. Paxton when healthy lives 96 plus.
Stevil
TC is mistaken. His FB averaged 92.8 last season, down from 95.7-95.9 over the previous 3 seasons.
But he looked good in his showcase and the extra day of rest between starts isn’t going to hurt.
bloomquist4hof
That was his exit velocity which was the highest of his career lol
bloomquist4hof
Fangraphs has him at 92.1 which would be the lowest of fastball velocity of his career.
houkenflouken
I think he means opponent exit velocities
99 Captain Judge
@Dorothy_Mantooth- Or honey maple syrup. Although I think he will bounce back and have a good season in 2021. He could definitely be a trade candidate at the trading deadline. Thinking about that team playing in Dunedin or Tampa. I’m sure the Mets would be interested also.
its_happening
Considering the 97-98 he was running up in 2019 I’d say you don’t watch enough baseball to come up with that crack, Dorothy. Common sense, logic and game viewing would’ve stopped you from posting this message. Soft Maple? Maybe stop going by numbers behind a computer and start viewing baseball games and pay attention.
bloomquist4hof
So a “get out of your moms basement” comment. Apparently those 20 innings mean everything, and only if you watched them. I watched plenty of Paxton prior to last year. I did not last year. I now suspect he could be, or have been hurt the more I think about it. This was clearly a gamble by the Mariners.
its_happening
Nope. It was a “watch the game” comment. We are in a pandemic. If he wants to stay in mom’s basement who are we to judge? But calling him soft maple? Please, don’t defend that.
Benjamin560
He was throwing 94 at ATI for teams this offseason. Good enough for me.
BigDaddyB
So how did the Mets get outbid by the Mariners? Didn’t see that coming.
As a Phillies fan, I’m glad they didn’t get Paxton. If he’s healthy, he’s a beast.
I wish him luck.
wayneroo
He may not have wanted to pitch in NY anymore. It’s not just bidding at an auction house.
Slothcliff Hokum
Great signing for the Mariners, who could be sneaky good this season. There are always “ifs” with any team, but let’s say Logan Gilbert shows up this year and has a positive impact, the newly signed bullpen guys stay healthy, and Dipoto adds an outfielder who can be a productive placeholder while Kelenic and Rodriguez develop. They’re banking on Evan White and JP Crawford improving their hitting, Dylan Moore and Kyle Lewis not regressing… lots of things aren’t sure. But if things work out on a number of fronts, this team could be great fun to watch in 2021. Signing Paxton adds to the excitement!
RobM
Paxton is never healthy it seems for the full season, but he also seems good for 150 innings The Mariners will be quite happy if he returns to 2018 and 2019 form, especially as part of a six-man rotation. This could be beneficial for both Paxton and the Mariners.
As for the Mets, they simply seem incapable of winning a free agent bid when they’re not competing only with themselves, as we saw with McCann and May.
Benjamin560
I’ll gladly take a banged up Paxton over him going to the Mets.
We have 7 starters now as it is. Even if Paxton gets injured which is most likely, we’ll be fine.
jimmertee
Paxton, used to be a money guy, but he is not the same pitcher anymore. I hope he stays healthy but I hear he is not 100%. Poor signing.
bloomquist4hof
Why is it a poor signing? Pitchers lose velocity as they age, on average. He gets hurt alot. Maybe he’s another Brett Anderson where teams keep hoping they’re the one that can get a healthy season but the talent is real. The Mariners have the pitching depth to make the gamble and not relying on him getting 150 innings. He’s likely still above average even if he’s losing gas as he ages. They could also have him get back to 94 mph by may and get a semi healthy season. At the 7 to 8 million per war that seems to be to going rate right now he’d have to pretty bad and/or unhealthy to be a bust at 10 mil. They can afford that gamble.
jimmertee
The reason it is a poor signing is that I scout Paxton as done. All the hopefully’s and could be’s are garbage. He might last a month of two but I believe that he is done. Period. Poor signing. Waste of money. That’s why.
bloomquist4hof
Do you mean he might last a month or two before he gets hurt? It doesn’t take scouting to realize there’s a good chance of that. There’s lots of ways his career could play out, most likely a lot of it is on the IL and a less effective rate when he does. At 32 and with lots of injuries so it’s easy to say that, since some day it’ll stick. Maybe the Mariner’s don’t expect a #1 pitcher and are playing at the roulette table. What do you expect a non-contender to do. I’d say 8.5 minimum guarantee mil kind of indicates that.
jim stem
@bloom. Do you really think they signed him expecting that he will be on the roster July 1? If he looks good in ST, he might be traded before April 1 for prospects.
bloomquist4hof
They can’t trade him until June 1st unless that rule has changed and I didn’t realize it.
bloomquist4hof
And no, of course Dipoto is hoping for a hot streak and trading for prospects.
rhymeoftheancientmariner
Big Mape back in town. 4 of 6 starters are LHP and the two projected RHP: Dunn and Flexen aren’t too exciting. It’s hard to continue waiting for this highly ranked minors system to mature and make an impact on the MLB roster. I guess 20 years will do that to me.
SwingtheFNbat
Good signing for the M’s, I guess. If there trying be to close to .500.. Just thought he might go to a contender. Jays first, Yankees next ect.
top jimmy
Paxton is made of glass. Any team that plans on contending should stay away from him.
sillyscully
With one of the better potential starting pitching staff in the lower end of the American League, how is Flexen is considered for a starting 5? Lights out rookie ball pitcher, can’t pitch under 6.5ERA in the Bigs. It appears the world has yet to witness the greatest underdog story of all time!
As for Sheffield and Marco, those two are going to have an amazing run in 21 and Dunn has some potential. I’m a little surprised Margevicius wasn’t mentioned for the rotation.
bloomquist4hof
I think Flexen and Margevicius both would make sense as dual role types, ala Seth Lugo. Dunn either needs to improve his offspeed stuff or figure out how to pitch without it. Wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up in the bullpen soon, and wouldn’t be surprised if he flourished there. I know that’s been a thing people are saying for a while with him, but without an effective change up or splitter, it’s a real possibility, and with a good slider and a few MPH added to his pitches, he could actually be good there.
Srechter35
Uhh, Paxton averaged 92.7 mph on his fastball last year, which was a dramatically diminished career low. Not sure where this career high 90.7 mph deal is coming from. As far as I’m concerned, the diminished velocity issue is even more worrisome than his injuries.
bloomquist4hof
90.7 is what fangraphs has his exit velocity at. I’m guessing someone looked at the wrong number.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Teams should be offering a contract that reflects the true value that team has for that player….
Not trying to cheat a player by negotiating in bad faith……
Low balling your customers is never good.. makes buttheads feel good about themselves and that’s about it….
steelerbravenation
Hancock, Gilbert & Kirby looks eerily similar to Paxton, Walker & Hultzen
If this second batch of arms goes the same route as the first the Mariners may really want to take a look at their pitching philosophy and if it is the reason for the injuries
bloomquist4hof
They’re years apart with very different people developing them. Pitching prospects have a very high rate of busting. If they get one good starting pitcher and one solid bullpen arm out of the group it would be more of a success than some people realize.
houkenflouken
How do those two groups compare other than the fact that they’re both good? As bloomquist has said, this management group is 100% different than the last.
jim stem
Have to figure the M’s will pay maybe 1/2 of that salary. They will flip him well before the deadline for prospects. It is an odd deal though considering just how little chance they have to even be .500.
prov356
Wait, what happened?
davemlaw
Paxton must have looked really good at his showcase to earn this size contract. But looking good for 45 pitches doesn’t mean he can hold up to a whole season. This is a pitcher who should be on a true contending team (sorry Mariner fans). You sign him just for the playoffs with possibly 20 starts during the season.
Stevil
Who’s to say he won’t be on a contender at the end of the season?
bigdaddyhacks
The Mariners run a 6 man rotation. He will be much more useable here then in New York. You just need 150 innings out of him.
coldbeer
Expect more teams to use 6 man rotations to limit innings
bloomquist4hof
I don’t think anyone expects 150 innings out of him.
bravesfan
You’re a Braves fan… you prefer this or the smyly deal? I’ll pay DS 11 mil but would love it to be incentive driven
DodgerOK
That’s a lot of money for someone who sounds like he’s held together with duct tape.
Eat em Up
How’d the Blue Jays not go sign this guy?
USNMariner
Paxton, Flexen, Middleton, Graveman and Giles are all low risk high reward. If they work out for the team they can either be middle/long term or trade capital. If they don’t the $$$ aren’t crippling to the team.
mlbfan
It’s a one year deal so it’s good.
Jerry go out and get Jackie Bradley Jr on a one year deal. It’ll solidify the defense.
houkenflouken
I’d rather have kelenic/klew
bigdaddyhacks
Dude, the Mariners have arguably the best young OF in baseball right now. Lewis/kelenic/Rodriquez/Haniger/trammel. JBJ Isn’t even a 4th OF for this team.
SalaryCapMyth
If one year got the deal done with JBJ, he would have been chased by several teams and signed by now.
mlbfan
Rosenthal was predicted to get a 2 year contact. They could overpay in a similar 1 year contract but for JBJ. Dipoto did that last year with a player, granted with a smaller contract.
A JBJ contract something like 10MM with an 14MM option year, and a 1.5MM buyout which can increase to 4MM based upon PA.
BenjiB24
I’mmmm baaaacckk. Who else wants the Mariners to win the World Series this year? Sign Walker. Look, the Mariners aren’t going to own everyone this year, we all agree. But it’s time to start manifesting a Mariners miracle. Be open minded. The Mariners are getting better right before our eyes. Don’t bet against them and tell them they aren’t ready and that it can’t be done before the season even starts
houkenflouken
We could always pull a 2018(?) braves (maybe 2019?). That year they made the playoffs when they weren’t supposed to in acuna’s rookie season. Well it’s Jered kelenic’s rookie season this year let’s goo!!
BuddyBoy
Why sign Walker, who wants multiple years, with guys we have under contract and coming up from the minors? As it is, we seven starters for six spots, not counting any young guys. I could see a minor league depth piece signing though.
BenjiB24
We already have a minor league depth piece. Logan Gilbert and/or George Kirby. We could use Walker when the Mariners likely opt out of Kikuchi’s contract and when Paxton likely moves on after this season
BuddyBoy
Walker is not very good (look at his peripherals) and certainly not someone that you sign to a multiple year deal. Also, yiu clearly don’t know what a minor league depth piece means. I said “besides” young guys and Kirby isn’t even close to the majors anyway. A minor league depth piece is a veteran starter on a MiLB desk.