The Mariners are in damage-control mode following CEO Kevin Mather’s resignation in the wake of a bizarre video interview that brought considerable backlash on the organization. General manager Jerry Dipoto and manager Scott Servais called the entire situation “embarrassing” when meeting with the Seattle media this week (link via The Athletic’s Corey Brock). Dipoto sought to distance the organization from Mather’s comments, repeatedly emphasizing that Mather was just one individual and that his views were not shared throughout the organization.
Mather, of course, not only all but admitted to service-time manipulation of the organization’s top prospects but also called Marco Gonzales “boring,” said Kyle Seager was “overpaid” and in his last season as a Mariner — it’s not clear whether Seager expected to return after the conclusion of his current contract — and made disparaging comments about being required to pay translators for Japanese players while also slamming top prospect Julio Rodriguez’s English-speaking skills in unprompted fashion (among many other bizarre and at-times troubling comments).
Mather indicated within his interview that top outfield prospect Jarred Kelenic rejected a long-term contract offer, and he only narrowly stopped short of plainly stating the manner in which they planned to delay his MLB debut to gain an extra year of team control. Mather stated that Kelenic would not be on the Opening Day roster, regardless of spring performance, but that he’d be in the Majors by the end of April. It’s true that most teams do this, but public admission of this nature is fuel for a grievance from the MLBPA and only further fans the flames in the looming collective bargaining talks.
Unsurprisingly, Mather’s comments didn’t sit well with Kelenic’s camp. Agent Brodie Scoffield and Kelenic himself spoke to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale yesterday, and both parties indicated that Kelenic would’ve been in the Majors last year had he been willing to sign the extension offer put forth by the Mariners prior to the 2020 season.
Scoffield told Nightengale it was “made crystal clear to Jarred” that the decision to keep him at the Mariners’ alternate training site for the 2020 season was driven by service time. “There’s no question that if he signed that contract, he would have been in the big leagues,” said Scoffield. Kelenic himself agreed, saying it was the “God’s honest truth” that fact was communicated to him multiple times. “It got old,” said Kelenic.
While Dipoto clearly wanted to distance himself from as much of Mather’s commentary as possible, he pushed back on the notion that the Mariners have set out to deliberately game the service-time mechanism.
“I’m not sure how you construe service-time manipulation with a 21-year-old who has played 20 games above A ball and has not yet achieved 800 plate appearances as a professional player,” said the GM. That’s a rather dubious assertion, however. First and foremost, using games played is a clearly flawed benchmark following a year in which zero minor league games took place. Secondly, Mather’s blunt acknowledgment that Kelenic would not open the year with the Mariners but would be up in late April only further underscores the service-time element of the situation.
Despite all the negative attention surrounding the situation and his palpable frustration, Kelenic emphasized to Nightengale that he is wholly committed to the Mariners organization. Citing a love of the fans, the city of Seattle and his teammates, Kelenic said: “If anything, I’m more motivated to bring a World Series championship to Seattle.”
It should also be stressed that the door on a potential extension with the Mariners isn’t closed as a result of this public unpleasantness. Scoffield tells MLBTR that he and Kelenic would still listen to new proposals from the Mariners, should they want to put together another offer. Whether a middle ground can ultimately be reached can’t be known at this time, but at the very least Mariners fans should be heartened that the relationship by no means appears fractured.
Specifics of the Mariners’ original proposal aren’t known, but not all contracts for pre-MLB players are created equal. Kelenic’s teammate, Evan White, inked a six-year, $24MM deal before making his debut — a very similar pact to the one signed by Philadelphia’s Scott Kingery. White Sox left fielder Eloy Jimenez and center fielder Luis Robert, on the other hand, signed six-year pacts worth $43MM and $50MM, respectively, before making their own debuts.
The question for the Mariners now is whether they’ll try for a new deal, stay the course by keeping Kelenic in Triple-A to open the season, or bite the bullet and carry him on the Opening Day roster even without a long-term deal in place. Calling him to the Majors shortly after his service time has been sufficiently held down would be, after all of this attention, one of the more brazen examples of service manipulation in recent memory. Kelenic already spoke to Nightengale of how the now-former CEO’s comments “widened the gap” between the front office and the locker room, adding that Dipoto’s attempt to smooth things over with the players was “strange” and not particularly well-received.
It’s an ugly situation all-around. However, while Gonzales acknowledged to Brock that Mather’s words were “hurtful and personal” for a lot of the clubhouse, himself included, there could in some ways have a unifying effect on the clubhouse. “Sometimes common goals can unite you,” said Gonzales. “…Sometimes a common enemy can do the same, if not greater.”
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Haha
More crybaby stuff than ever before. This old story puts me to sleep. zzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz
Yeah man I feel you. Nobody should ever complain about anything ever, let alone feel any feelings. These crybaby players should just stare numbly at the wall and let people say whatever they want to them. They’re here to play baseball, not feel feelings! Matter of fact, let’s replace all major league managers with marine corps Drill Sargeants.
Yeah… I haven’t even read the comments yet but I am guessing MLBTR shuts this down before tomorrow morning. It’s getting late in the day and people are going to start drinking and let their true feelings come out in a not so subtle way.
@newpony13 You don’t come to the comments section to complain about people commenting? Weird
Somehow I doubt, if someone made similar comments about you within your workplace, you would sit back without responding.
Is this my cue?!
What I want to know is what was Kevvy doing before the interview started, dropping percs & chasing it with cheap vodka? Listen I can’t understand how the M’s haven’t made the postseason in the last 19yrs, seems like they’re running a pretty tight ship over there. Ahahahaha!
Sounds like this Mather fellow went on quite a rant. Or maybe he was doing a comparable Al Bundy straight talk wireless commercial!
I feel as though every few years there’s someone tied to the Seattle org who gets in this kind of mess.
I am curious name the last person in the FO to do this.
I know they had a sexual harassment claim, but really they’ve been silent. So I’m not sure what that comment is related too
Sexual harassment was also Mather
Oh wow. Thank you for that info! Glad that Jack wagon is gone
“Earlier in his tenure with the franchise, The Seattle Times reported that multiple women accused Mather and two other Mariners executives of inappropriate workplace conduct, resulting in financial settlements. The complaints first surfaced in 2009 — 2009 — and that should’ve been the final straw. But the Mariners kept Mather in the organization. “
oregonlive.com/mlb/2021/02/seattle-mariners-ceo-ke…
Accused – that does not translate to committed. Although it does seem he may not have the best character.
And then promoted him twice!
@clipper –
The two things are completely different & unrelated, though.
One is some more than likely pretty creepy stuff. Lolzmets kinda creeper stuff. The other seems like he probably shouldn’t have had Irish coffee that morning.
He seems like a clown, in general. & I get firing him – even though he was speaking openly which we all actually want to see our GM’s do.
Well…I guess until they actually do, uh?
But I understand where the Mariners are coming from. You need to be very careful about what you say these days. This is the exact reason my partner’s wife keeps loose track of what our sales guys put up on Facebook, or whatever. When it comes to presenting your company image – honesty is definitely not the best policy.
Lol, sounds about right.
Not quite as personal, but Jack Zduriencik was supposed to be a general manager but he instead cracked jokes about the font of the PowerPoint instead of paying any attention at a Sabermetrics presentation
Pretty sure Dipoto and Servais were accused of racist and sexist remarks in 2019. Mather was accused of sexual harassment in 2018.
Yeah, Kevin Mather.
It’s in a team’s best interest to manipulate service time. Teams will continue to do it so long as the loop hole exists. It needs to be addressed in the next CBA.
We don’t need hundreds of minor leaguers and failing minor league teams when we have Korea Japan Mexico and other markets that can grow a little.. Baseball’s declining in the US and everyone still wants more. To do that you need to cut everything below AA here and cut the draft to 15 picks. How many people does a team add to the farm annually anyways in the current era? We have millions going to Latin American and Caribbean countries on top of the draft. Even the NBA and NFL have foreign leagues, and at best the NFL adds about 15-20 “rookies” if you will a year. Make. It. Stop. Cap floor, 3 years pre arb regardless of level, 2 years arb, and lightened bonuses for draft and foreign players rights.
By the way on the nfl adding 15-20.. that’s considering that they have 70-80 people vs MLB’s 40 man (26 in mlb roster) and they get hurt way more often and rotate players out of the game at a way higher percentage.
Comparing MLB to the NFL or the NBA is ridiculous. The NFL is the only credible American Football league in the world and their player development process is completely different. The NBA is a joke of a league and they also have a vastly different player development process. While MLB definitely needs to change the way prospects are handled it can’t be in a way as extreme as you’re suggesting. In that scenario it would be damn near impossible for small market teams to ever compete
Drawing a new line in the sand for service time will merely change how service time is manipulated. Say you have to call a kid up in July instead of April, teams will start calling kids up in July.
Why not just use an arbitrator to settle potential disputes? If we already do it for arbitration salaries, why can’t we do it for potential service time manipulation?
There’s no perfect solution to this issue, but this is the best I can come up with right now. Because as you said, merely moving around deadlines wouldn’t do enough to curb such manipulation.
They do use an arbitrator to settle service time disputes. Kris Bryant just took his service time manipulation grievance against the Cubs to an arbitrator in an attempt to become a free agent one year earlier. Bryant hit very well in AAA and the Cubs literally called him up on the earliest possible day while still keeping an extra year of control. If the Cubs had called Bryant up the day before he would be a free agent right now. Kris Bryant still lost. The arbitrator ruled in favor of the Cubs.
Oh, right. How could I forget about that? Thanks.
So, basically, the issue is that players be able to win such cases very rarely. Perhaps they could change the hearing parameters in order to give the players more of a fair shot at winning?
The players have never won an arbitration case about service time manipulation. Arbitrators are worried about the backlash. The rules of when you can call a player up and keep that extra year of service time are written in stone. The opinion of when a player is ready to be called up isn’t written anywhere. If they agreed with Bryant then a bunch of other players would do the same thing and the arbitrators would have no idea how to quantify their readiness. They just stick to the rules to avoid opening a “Pandora’s Box.” Arbitrators are more like Judges or Lawyers. They read rules and interpret them. They don’t scout players and determine when they are ready.
Thank you. This is mostly on the MLBPA. If they and their members don’t like it, address it in the next CBA. Hard to complain when they had the same opportunity to do so with the current CBA, but their leadership failed them.
So how do they fix the loop hole?
Player says he’s ready; team says he’s not.
Then what?
Players don’t get to call themselves up
I liked the Mariners team, and I still do its just I cant look at them the same way (Front Office).
Lol why? What was said that makes them seem so bad to you?
Lol one person represents the entire front office . Get a clue
This is a Magic Johnson tweet
Every team does this, this fool just admitted it publicly. The system is broken in a way that there isn’t an easy fix
I think it’s only fair that Kelenic be sent back to the Mets
– not a Met fan
you beat me to it. I was hoping Kelenic would demand a trade to the Mets…. I need to get over it
Offer them them Lindor, Conforto, McNeil, Carrasco, Stroman, Thor and Diaz and maybe convince deGrom to waive his no trade clause, and I bet that could happen!
dipoto made a great point.. 20 games above A ball…cool your jets. I love what I see in him but do you want to be rushed like other guys(adell) and struggle and possibly set you back?
You aren’t wrong, and neither is Dipoto in a general sense. But, if what Kelenic is saying is true, that they told him if he signed the extension he would be with the Mariners, then that is clearly a service time manipulation and not a waiting until he plays more issue. Similarly, when your CEO comes right out and says that is the reason he is not playing with the Mariners, it makes it harder to deny it even with Dipoto’s contrary statements. The Mariners have a tough call now and it probably depends on how he looks in Spring and/or in minors this year. If he plays well and they do exactly what the CEO said they would do they look really bad. If he plays poorly, they have a good excuse to leave him down. I think if he plays well, they might have to call him up early and see how he does or face a possible grievance.
If they pushed him and he failed there would be articles here about rushing him too quickly. Service time manipulation is a real problem, but the logic here is wrong. Maybe if it was someone like Dylan Carlson.
The problem for the Mariners is that the 20 games above A ball is a compelling argument when your CEO doesn’t blatantly state it is because of service time.
If I sold you an older car as-is, and the transmission went out a week later, you knew that was one of the risks (for better or worse), with a likely unspoken good faith trust that I wasn’t aware of any problems I didn’t tell you about. But if you had a video of me laughing and saying “… and they bought it when the transmission was going to break at any minute!”, you’d be less compelled to shrug and say “yeah, but it was an as-is sale, I accepted that there might be some sort of problem”.
but didn’t Dipoto also say you go up as soon as you sign and you stay down if you do not sign? If he did say that then how can he say he was not ready?
Next point: The Ms will not bring up a prospect until they are ready…yet we have a Gold Glove first baseman who cannot hit in the majors. He is not ready to hit professional pitching at a major league level. This is talking out of both sides of your mouth at once, If White can learn OTJ so can Kelenic.
762 PAs in the minors, only 92 of which were in AA and he was still adjusting. The Juan Sotos of the game are the exception, not the norm.
There’s nothing dubious about Jerry’s comments. Mather knows little about development. That is Jerry, Andy, and Scott’s department.
Mather couldn’t even pronounce his name right,
White can’t hit MLB pitching and he’s up with the team, cause he signed on the dotted line. Kelenic would be up with the team if he had signed and he likely can hit.
White had over 400 PAs in AA before signing that extension and he had shown that he could handle the level. Jarred hasn’t done that yet.
Mike Trout had over 1300 PAs in the minors before being called up. Cody Bellinger had over 1300. Ronald Acuna had over 1200.
Suggesting Kelenic can likely hit isn’t an argument. There is no indication in his record to date that suggests he is ready right now. Nobody knows what the player pool offered in way of development.
We learn something by the end of spring, but we can’t read too much into spring numbers, either (good or bad). His process will say more.
Stevil, those are excellent supporting points and just reflects more why this is a non-issue for the M’s management in therms of service time. Kalenic has no standing and I don’t understand why anyone thinks he should. Out of principle? Then what? Let him get crushed by MLB pitching? How does that serve any beneficial purpose?
Exactly. And it’s not like Seattle is a contender and so desperate that taking such an early risk makes sense.
I think Kelenic is going to be good. Love the confidence as well as the tools, but there simply isn’t a single reason to rush him.
“but there simply isn’t a single reason to rush him.”
Unless he had signed the contract they offered. Then his development would have been sufficient?
It can’t be both ways. It can’t be ” all about the development of the player” and “if you had signed liked Evan White did, you’d be in the Majors now”.
Since it can’t be both, which one is it? Not too difficult to see that they got caught manipulating service time.
This shouldn’t be hard to understand. What Mather said contradicts what Jerry has said, and Jerry was clear that a minor league assignment was part of the extension. That was also, obviously, before the pandemic.
Kelenic wouldn’t have started the season in MLB, but the fact that there wasn’t a minor league season weighs heavily into this. Had he been able to get a two or three hundred PAs, he absolutely might have earned a promotion. That proved to be impossible.
His development wasn’t going to be compromised, and if you still feel obliged to use White as a reference, I would remind you again that he had over 400 PAs in AA and likely would have been sent to the minors had there been a season.
Hmmm whom am I to believe? Kevin Mather, who was only too open and too honest, which created this whole mess? Jarred Kelenic and his agent, who said it was “The God’s honest truth that it was communicated to him so many times it got old”, and who also said Dipoto’s apology was strange and went over like a fart in church? (So obviously the players didn’t believe him). Most of the National media and analysts? Most of the local Seattle area media and analysts?
Or
John Stanton the owner of the team in the midst of a scandal who has a vested interest in trying to sweep it under the rug and cover it up? And Jerry Dipoto, the guy whom Stanton threw under the bus by claiming he was responsible for all baseball decisions?
Hmmm, yes, it is understood. Crystal clear.
How about both Jerry Dipoto and Jarred Kelenic? Jerry knows the value of minor league PAs and the danger of rushing prospects. He inherited a team with a glaring example. Jarred is an anxious, confident prospect with a ton of talent. He almost certainly would have debuted last season regardless of an extension, but not without more PAs. A local journalist suggested the same thing I have: June at the earliest–if it had been a normal year. Had there been an extension, and had it been a normal year, things like the super-two cutoff wouldn’t have mattered. But the notion that he had to sign or he wouldn’t see a promotion last year is nonsense. When he was told that a promotion wouldn’t happen, it was after the minor league season had been canceled. A minor league assignment that was necessary all along was no longer possible, so that should come as no surprise. That said, there was no need to tell him that he wasn’t going to be called up under any circumstances.
His agent hasn’t denied what Dipoto said about the minor league assignment, so why would you think that what Jerry said isn’t accurate? Worth noting, nobody with any influence suggested he was MLB-ready out of spring. It’s important to remember that this was pre-pandemic.
Of course the apology was going to sound awkward. Mather blatantly contradicted everything Jerry has said. But one look at Jerry’s history will show you that no prospect has ever made MLB with as few AA PAs as Jarred on his watch, and that includes Mike Trout.
The funny thing in all this is that his agent stated that an extension is still possible, so maybe with Jerry at least temporarily having a little more pull regarding long-term contracts, maybe they can get something done.
Either way, I wouldn’t anticipate a debut before June. I stand by my suggestion that the bar is 200 more PAs minimum.
it amazes me they were so willing to push him to rhe Majors so quickly anyway. gotta feel like after the Evan White extention that maybe waiting was the right idea for the team with Kelenic.
kelenic says the M’s IMPLIED he would be up if he signed. there is no documentation. there is no audio.
I’m sure they did, but I guarantee you they never said, when. Look, they’re never going to hold an organization to service time mandates because they won’t ever force someone into the majors.
What do you think Kalebic would say if they ruled in his favor and he went to the majors and failed, miserably? More litigation – pressure was too much, I was forced too early, they said I was ready and the only reason I was held back was service time, etc, etc.
It’s a gigantic glass of goat milk with fur.
The guy worked for the organization for 24 years. You can’t pretend this is just one guy you really can’t.
He has only been there 24 years, clearly his ideas are fresh and his own and reflect in no way on the Mariners’ organization as a whole.
I agree, but to fair, he came in a different era. All the top pieces that were there at the time are now gone (Armstrong, Lincoln, Alyward, etc.). Jerry brought in his own guys for the baseball side of things.
Been a rough week for a M’s fan. If Kelenic and Co start producing (Gilbert/Hancock this year Kirby/Raleigh/ and maybe Rodriguez the year after), next year the M’s have little $$ committed after 2021, they better start adding talent. Next years FA group is very strong. Winning can heal a lot of wounds.
I agree with almost everything in this article except saying that games above A ball is arbitrary. I have read and listened to Baseball America and MLB Pipeline for years and writers with decades of experience combined covering prospects have repeatedly said that games and plate appearances above the lower levels are important.
Anybody who says games above A-ball are arbitrary has a very low baseball IQ. Period.
The Double-A Jump from Fangraphs:
tht.fangraphs.com/the-double-a-jump-2/
Management generally treats players poorly but was the Kelenic extension offer a service time manipulation?
In the 2019-20 offseason the Seattle Mariners reportedly offered outfielder Jarred Kelenic and first baseman Evan White contract extensions with apparent assurances that each would play the 2020 season at the MLB level … whether either was ready or not.
If the offer was accepted, the Mariners received a hoped-for long-term benefit in exchange for the risk that the player was not ready. That risk came to fruition when White struggled through his rookie season.
If the offer was rejected, the Mariners no longer assumed the risk the player was not ready for the MLB level. Kelenic reportedly turned down the offer and in the process may have spared himself an embarrassing rookie campaign.
Because the Mariners did not expect to contend in 2020 the club was in a good position to absorb one or two MLB flops by rookies rushed through the farm system. More franchises may be adopting similar strategy by offering extensions to players with no or few years of MLB service.
Each side exercises its leverage in negotiations. Problems arise when rumors of the negotiations become public.
Seattle general manager Jerry Dipoto reportedly encouraged the players and coaches to publicly voice their frustrations with Kevin Mather’s comments. The controversy may bring the team together.
Or not.
Of course he encouraged them to voice their frustrations with the comments. That way they can try to say his thoughts were his alone and everyone in the organization disagrees. Bad bad Mather, all by himself with these crazy thoughts and opinions that NOBODY else in the Mariners organization agrees with and are disgusted by.
Yeah. That’s what they will do. It’s the smart thing to do. I think that’s what they are already doing. Since Mather is gone it makes it easier. Even though the Mariners front office is probably in on it… That’s not going to matter. It would have to be proven. They will say Mather was just speaking his own opinions and they disagreed with him so he is gone. Like it or not Mather doesn’t have the right or even the ability to state what other people’s opinions are at any given moment. The M’s will say they were “hands off” and just let him run the team how he liked and now they asked him to resign because they didn’t like the way he did it. Unless e-mails or phone calls surface proving ownership was in on it, you can’t prove them wrong and they are innocent until proven guilty. You can’t really punish people because of something someone else said that didn’t even directly implicate them. Mather basically told on himself and no one else.
hey vegasangelsfan, of course he is the only one in the organization with those thoughts! Did you read or listen to ALL of the things he said? Good grief pal, very few people in the nation think or speak as this fool did, let alone one baseball organization.
……..and right about now Kris Bryant’s phone rings, “Hey Jarred………..no not much you can do……yup(laughs)……….Yeah it’s almost over for me…..where?……just not here(laughs louder)………..Hopefully the next CBA fixes it…..(laughs even louder)…….
“made disparaging comments about being required to pay translators for Japanese players”
Not what he said. But ok. He said he’s tired of paying a translator for a scout who can’t fill one of the job requirements…..being a translator
“As far as Korea, Japan, Taiwan, those players are typically older. They don’t come over as 16-, 18-year-olds, they come over as 28-, 30-, 32-year-olds. We typically, it frustrates me. For instance, we just re-hired (Hisashi) Iwakuma. Iwakuma was a pitcher for us for a number of years. Wonderful human being. His English is terrible.
He wanted to get back into the game, and he came to us, and we quite frankly want him as our Asian scout, interpreter, what’s going on in the Japanese league. He’s coming to spring training. And I’m mean to say, I’m tired of paying his interpreter. Because when he was a player, we’d pay Iwakuma X, but we’d also have to pay $75,000 a year to have an interpreter with him.
His English suddenly got better. His English got better when we told him that. But we, for the older players from the Far East, we have an interpreter that travels with them. For the younger Dominicans, Venezuelans, Caribbean players, we really invest in them at a young age before they get here. Good question. It’s important.”
Should the Seattle Mariners provide a Japanese interpreter for an American-born English speaker hired to scout Japan?
I’m sure the mariners have someone hired who handles communications from scouts from different parts of the world.
Couple probably.
They dont provide each of the 100s of scouts an individual interpreter.
Couple guys answering emails and translating reports…..or using a software to do such.
Not a 1 to 1 scout and translator ratio.
Agreed. Anyone who could think these comments are about race is simply looking for something that isn’t there.
Whether you like his comments or not, Mather’s frustrations were clearly business-related, which makes only too much sense since he was the CEO.
It is blatantly racist and totally unnecessary to say that Iwakuma and Rodriguez spoke terrible English
It is absolutely NOT RACIST to say that anybody from a foreign country speaks “terrible” English. Not in any way, shape, or form.
If there was a French player who spoke terrible English, would it also be racist? What if he was Scandinavian? Or Russian? People from countries that don’t speak English typically speak terrible English. Pointing this out isn’t racist.
I agree. If I go to France and someone says “you speak terrible French” or more likely ”tu parles terriblement français”, that is not racist but simply a fact that I speak terrible French. Yikes this outrageous victim culture drives me nuts.
This victim culture will only get worse. Think about what the world will be like in 10 years (or don’t).
The word racist has lost its meaning. Most people on this thread can’t even agree on it. Welcome to the victimhood culture.
Except Julio doesn’t speak horribke English…. He actually actually speaks impressive English.
I try not too. We won’t be able to communicate because we might risk offending someone. We’re going to have to isolate so covid is just helping us acclimate.
@TMQ – he may very well speak great English. It’s not racist to disagree with that though.
Stevo,
What are the races of that Iwakuma guy and that Rodriguez guy? They’re Scandanavian and Russian, right?
Oh, no, Dina. Jack can talk Thai. Jack talk Thai very well.
That’s the point, Tipsy. Saying we can’t criticize someone’s lack of English because of their race is racist. It implies we must protect certain people based on race from harsh words. Why do you think so little of nonwhite people?
@Tipsy … Do you mean their nationality? You must mean that, because you can’t determine race by name. What “race” is Yu Darvish?
Tipsy, as usual, it is only a violation of your skewed subjective ethical standards if the person is of a non-white background. I’m sorry you hold such disdain for yourself, but every comment that is disagreeable and references someone’s language, race, ethnicity, or gender (of course, by your standards they have to be of a….. selected background) is not a racist.
You don’t even understand the terms you pretend to espouse. It’s embarrassing.
You give power to real racist people because you call everyone racist, so whenever you write it, nearly every article, it’s like writing, “the Earth is round,” except in an incredibly obnoxious manner. You should probably leave the borders of your car/house/apartment/box (I don’t judge, sir!) before engaging in your cultural warfare.
Or, you can remain sitting in your car, at the local kids park stealing someone else’s WiFi to accomplish your MLBTR…… board transformation goals. But know, you come across less coherent than Mathers, so with you around, the guy’s got a fighting chance.
Please include white grievance in your victimhood culture, because there’s plenty of that going on in this platform.
@sheagoodbye Whether you like his comments or not? Seriously??? LOL!!!!!!!
…
I Beg to Differ: Right on point. Essentially anything you don’t actively support with overt positive statements is considered disparaging. To say you don’t like the fact you have to pay for a translator, when you hired someone who should be able to do that job already! Oh my…. wha… how nefarious the intent of that evil man. It’s abundantly clear he’s against all non-translated peoples.
Straw man response: “Well what about the US people that can’t speak other languages?”
Answer: Well if he hired them to do that they probably shouldn’t be employed or he would have a right to complain about paying double for them as well.
Stop with your Minnie Mouse BS faux offense…. I don’t buy it, neither do the other intelligent people on this forum.
Comment need to be approved now before posting?
Only is you are using banned words. Wonder what you were trying to say?
The smart way to handle this is “Mather spoke out of turn. Our plan is definitely to get Kelenic some much needed minor league development time but there’s no plan on calling him up until he’s ready. He’s only played 20 games above A ball and we want him fully prepared to stay here once we bring him here.”
Done. no harm in throwing Mather under the bus now.
You’re right, Halos. That is exactly what they will do. I’m wondering if these statements by Kelenic may actually end up hurting him in the long(er) run. Before this happened the M’s might have brought him up as soon as the had the extra year of control. Now they might try to prove a point. It’s possible they wait and bring him up slightly later and make sure he isn’t Super 2 eligible and they don’t have to let him become arbitration eligible a year early.
No doubt Mather should have been punished for his comments. The next CBA will take care of these types of situations and the players are ready to make a stand. Klenec’s agent should watch what he says as he hasn’t been the model agent during his career path either.
Spoiler alert – This reminds of the movie Major League with the uniting against the front office aspect.
Mixed feelings for sure about this as a life long Mariner fan. One one hand I agree with the outrage, on the other I get why teams do this and frankly don’t see the wrong it in. It’s playing the game with the rules given. Kelenic will be a stud, if dipoto is right, cool your jets kid. There was zero reason to bring the kids to in a 60 game joke season. And if they did make the playoffs the rays would have surely smoked them with that pitching staff and the Mariners zero bullpen last season.
I’d like to see ichiro or Edgar as president. Kelenic/Kirby on the opening day roster and to make the playoffs and move on. In a couple
Years reach out again and extend the budding stars.
Yes, just go ahead and play the kids that are closest to the majors. Bite the bullet on the service time, and get Kelenic and Gilbert and anyone else up on Opening Day if they look ready in ST. The M’s have a lot of talent in the pipeline, why sit on it if it’s ready? Throw us long-suffering M’s fans a bone or two.
Kirby making the opening say roster would be crazy. He has only thrown in rookie ball, like 25 innings. He will be a fast riser but I don’t think that fast
Kelenic needs to have a successful spring in order to make the big leagues. The tricky thing is, what exactly does that look like in order for him to start the season on the big league roster?
I think he needs a bit more time in the minors since he’s only had 80 at bats above A ball. I am hoping he isn’t automatically promoted due to this whole service time issue.
Kelenic plays the same position as Kyle Lewis, and Kyle ain’t steppin’ aside. Probably Kelenic could play a corner, but a really good case could be made to having him get acclimated in the minors instead of MLB.
Outfield is very easy to shift around. Kyle Lewis was a below average CF last year He will move to LF the second Kelenic is up.
Below average??????Really!
Last year he had a -4.3 UZR/150, which assess the number of ball per 150 attempts he fields compares to league average. He also has -1 DRS. ARM is -0.5. RangR is -1.3. Baseball savant has his Outfielder jump as -0.4 which means he is half a second slower than the average OF, not to mention the average CF.
He is by every reasonable metric a below average CF.
I disagree. Lewis was better than expected in CF last season. I could see kelenic playing left field this year and shiftin to center next year and bumping Lewis to left.
“How To Commit Baseball Career Suicide” by Kevin Mather. On sale now.
Yeah, but then he buys: “How to Revive Your Executive Baseball Life After a Very Public Scandal” by Alex Cora and AJ Hinch
If he’s good enough to earn a mega contract after 6 years then he will have provided a huge amount of value to the organization, so as a fan it would be hard to complain when he leaves. It’s clear that he’s not going to take an extension close to what they’re offering, so I would hold him down for however long they need to in order to gain the extra year. It’s also not much of a stretch to say he needs more time in the minors, Mather’s comments just make the organization look really bad.
I don’t see where he said anything wrong.
I think the Kelenic statements could be taken out of context on their own, but he’s basically saying Kelenic and Gilbert will be ready in April.: The Gilbert statement is even more curious since it looks like “we’ll just wait 2 weeks to keep the clock from ticking. If Kelenic is correct that they offered playing time last year for a long term contract, it adds to the idea this is all referring to service time manipulation.
From: lookoutlanding.com/2021/2/21/22294212/mariners-pre…:
On the minor league side, Jarred Kelenic, we’ve been talking about him for a year and a half now. He’ll be in left field in April.
…
Q: I’m a little confused about the Kelenic kid. My recollection is that he’s a top prospect we have out there, and I’m a little confused about your statements about them earlier. It sounded like you wasn’t happy with [the] contract opportunity long term. Is he in the system, is he going to be in the system, or is, is he actually gone, or going?
KM: He’s in our minor league system…In 2019, we promoted him to AA. He is a very good player. And quite frankly we think he’s going to be a superstar. We control his major league career for six years. And after six years, he’ll be a free agent. We would like him to get a few more at-bats in the minor leagues. Probably AAA Tacoma for a month,
….
On the mound in April, you won’t see him on April 1st ,but by mid April you’ll see a young man named Logan Gilbert. He’s the real deal, he’s a top of the rotation pitcher, and I can’t wait to see him at T-Mobile Park.
—-
Why mid April?
Also, unrelated to service time:
As the meeting broke up, Marco Gonzales, with a help of a couple bullpen guys, pushed this particular pitcher into the locker and said, “Listen, if you want to be a d**k, be a d**k, but do it quietly.” And, you know, for a young kid to do that, good for him. Good for him. And…it’s hard for a pitcher who only performs every fifth or sixth day to take a leadership role, but Marco has really kind of owned that.
Who was this particular pitcher?
It was never stated in the speech. Its possible if there was more context it would come off in a better light but I cant see how gloating about something like that could come off as good.
Service time manipulation occurs when a club holds back a player who is clearly ready for the MLB level.
A reasonable conclusion is that neither Jarred Kelenic nor Evan White was MLB-ready heading into the 2020 season. Nevertheless, the Seattle Mariners bet on the future by offering each an extension that with team options carried into potential years of free agency.
Kelenic and White reportedly made reasonable but different decisions on reasonable offers.
Mather’s comments about manipulating service time are a universal thought process of every GM throughout the league, the others just don’t talk about it publicly. While there are some who have spoken out about it, the players union ultimately negotiated the parameters and had to expect it to be exploited as much as possible by every team.
The comments about not being able to speak English well and having to employ a translator are stating fact and do not seem disparaging. If I were in another country, let’s say Mexico, and my employer said my Spanish stunk, that would be factual and I wouldn’t be bothered by it in the slightest. It’s not like a players language speaking ability has anything to do with the job they were hired to perform. Were they necessary comments, no…
What’s really happening here is the ridiculousness of PC and woke to the point that if anyone is offended by anything these days, they can be canceled. Their entire career over in a flash, banished from the industry for life. That’s absurd. The Mariners showed no willingness to stand behind him, maybe send him to some nonsense sensitivity training, instead, they acted like a bunch of wimps, bowed to the peanut gallery, and shoved him right under the bus to be steamrolled. Mather should not have resigned, he took it like a wimp, too.
Yeah man I’m with you. These players are paid to play baseball, not feel feelings. MLB should look into replacing all managers with drill sargeants and train these crybaby players to feel no feelings no matter what people say to or about them. Get it done Manfred!
If the Iwekuma comment was made in isolation, I don’t think that alone would have been a singular reason for termination. I do wonder why he bothers commenting on his players mastery of the English language. The other player that he made comments about supposedly is coming along with his English abilities. I guess I look at things more pragmatically, it seems that Mather has a habit of running his mouth in public and pissing off all kinds of folks within the organization. He’s also cost the M’s $$$ in settling a sexual harassment lawsuit. And by the way, the M’s atrocious run of no playoffs should make the entire FO feel like their job is tenuous at best. Especially those that have been there as long as Mather.
So, perhaps his latest musings where he managed to offend international players for not speaking English to his standards, calling one of their faces of the franchise over-paid and publicly admitting to manipulating service time for their potential young superstar shows a real lack of smarts. Coupled with a lack of team performance and sexual harassment, why keep this guy around?
Frankly, sounds like the M’s are better off w/out Mr. Mather. Time to chart a new course.
Thank you Damon – well said. I’m as fed up with woke and PC as anyone, but this goes way beyond that. This guy had to be fired, if he didn’t choose to “retire”.
@761506 … I agree. The stupidity is obvious in the way the PC sheep conflate “race” with “nationality.”
Easy now….
What they need to do to get the clubhouse to unite is hire Wesley Snipes to play CF then get a cardboard cut out of Mather and put it in the locker room. And then every time they win, remove a portion of clothing. It works.
This n the comment earlier both made me laugh way 2 hard n that’s a awesome movie definitely worked for them
I think wesley is incarcerated for tax evasion so he may not be available for 2021
Snipes was released from jail like 7 years ago, man.
This qualifies as news? Let’s play some baseball so this garbage can recede.
Now the M’s will show Kelenic it isn’t manipulation by not calling him up in April and waiting for super 2 deadline sometime in June lol
Put him in the majors and send him down with every slump. They only need him in AAA for like 20 days over his first 5 years to get the extra season of control.
If they think he’s ready put him on the roster. If not don’t.
How about those Astro’s!
Yes, just go ahead and play the kids that are closest to the majors. Bite the bullet on the service time, and get Kelenic and Gilbert and anyone else up on Opening Day if they look ready in ST. The M’s have a lot of talent in the pipeline, why sit on it if it’s ready? Throw us long-suffering M’s fans a bone or two.
The dude has 83 ABs in AA, and some people are proclaiming him an All-Star? C’mon people, I know you’re smarter than that.
This has been so hard to watch and has absolutely cratered what was a pretty decent rebuild. Dipoto needs to do more than just distance themselves with words.
Him gloating about Marco Gonzales shoving another pitcher into a locker was the most concerning thing he said. That said he just said so many stupid and awful things that no matter what he damaged the teams image and relationship with the players. Plus doing it knowing he was being recorded. And he ran the team, and was dumb enough to do so. He also had the previous sexual harassment accusations. If he had made an offhand comment about Iwakuma or Rodriguez in isolation it would have been dumb, people would have got outraged but there’s a good chance it doesn’t get more than a little Twitter ire. As a whole it shows how awful and surprisingly stupid (or maybe just unsurprisingly out of touch). The service time thing alone was ridiculous. Even if Kelenic and his agent are now using it to posture in the media as much as anything else, he gave rhe union and possibly Kelenic and Gilbert ammo for the CBA and any grievances.
The Rodriguez and Iwakuma comments were more concerning than some people think. Rodriguez clearly is learning English from everything I’ve seen so why say that? That just ended up being a sour taste for Rodriguez. And he implied Iwakuma suddenly got better when he mentioned the translator salary, like his poor English wss intentional? It sounded more like some rich jerk bragging to a bunch of business owners how cool he is by giving insight into his team they didn’t need and makes you wonder how factual some of it even was.
If Kelenic had signed an extension last year, of course he would have played some in 2020. The team would be paying him a MLB salary and his service time would be a non-issue due to his contract. Since he didn’t sign, it made no sense to bring him up in a 60 game season when he’s only had 20 games above A ball. I don’t consider this service time manipulation at all. When you commit to a 5 or 6 year deal at major league salary amounts, service time means nothing anymore. Try him in the bigs and if he’s not ready, send him back down, realizing you are overpaying him now but hoping that over the entire term of the deal, he more than earns his salary. I wonder if the recent Tatis deal is going to cause a lot of Uber-prospects to turn down early extension offers now. If they come in as a rookie and set the league on fire like Tatis did, they too might get a 10+ year extension after the equivalent of 1 full season in the majors. I’m sure a lot of GMs are not happy with that deal.
Look at all the agents clamoring to get their guys’ voices heard about this extension. Bichette, Soroka, Bieber, Soto all were talked about getting a shot at Tatis Jr.’s contract. Great for the players, not good for the GM’s, owners, or the contract renewable/arbitration process. Mather’s comments only added to the difficult decision for the new CBA. It has to change.
But that doesn’t make sense with what Dipoto said. He said it’s all about the development of the player. So since he didn’t sign the team friendly contract, he’s not going to get promoted until his development advances to the point that they deem him ready. But had he signed, then his development would somehow already be sufficient?
First, because there was no minor league season, there’s an argument that MLB experience might be better than whatever the player pools offered. I would disagree with that notion, but it’s debatable.
Second, they could have still sent him back down to the minors, contract extension or not, which is very much a possibility with Evan White. It’s just less appealing without an extension.
I’d also add that Dipoto probably views White’s experience differently, having had 400 PAs in AA and seen White’s season-long struggles. That may have further convinced him that they needed to stay patient with Kelenic.
Complaining about the interpreters is the dumbest thing in the world. It’s in the contract you signed! And it’s in the contract for good reason. If you want that player on your team you make a contract to sign them. Complaining about it later is dumb.
Glad he’s gone, even though I really don’t care about the Mariners. I am worried about the new CBA and a potential strike.
In the end, the real losers are the fans. Either we lose baseball entirely or it just keeps getting more and more expensive. Ticket prices and concessions make it impossible for a family to go to more than a game a year, and that is for privileged families. No wonder kids don’t play anymore, they can’t go to games.
Prices are just fine. Player salaries have nothing to do with the cost to fans. Except that a high payroll increases the odds for a winning team and people are more willing to pay to come out and see a winning team. If the team stinks you will see teams doing promotions that make the ticket cost a lot less. Tickets and concessions or priced at an amount that enough people in a city’s demographics will be willing to pay. They don’t want to make the tickets affordable enough for anyone to attend. Goal is to charge the maximum amount that 30,000 or so people will pay to watch.
That’s not true. Player salaries DO have an effect on prices to consumers. Basic business sense and Intro to Econ.
Why is Jerry DiPoto running his mouth about playing games above Single-A when the Mariners really haven’t done that in the last 19 years?
The Mariners don’t play single-a games because they are in the major leagues. That is why
Paulie Walnuts19 mins ago
Why is Jerry DiPoto running his mouth about playing games above Single-A
========================================================
It might have something to do with most players needing AA & AAA experience. Way too many players get promoted before they really learn how to play. Guys like Manny Machado, Bogaerts, Vlad Jr., etc., were good enough players, but not nearly as good at 20 & 21 than they would be if they were brought up at age 22.
I must have watched a different Kramer being brutally honest video. For instance I heard him call a players production boring, not his personality.
Guy was fired because he said things that should have never been said. Every baseball person knows these things so no need for them to be said. Especially somewhere they could be captured on video. Kramer doesn’t seem like the kind of person I would want working for me. Amazing they kept him this long. Is ownership the same or they just never talked to the guy?
Boring is not an insult. Marco Gonzales is a very good pitcher but he is boring. He throws 88-92 from the left side. There is no 100 mph fastball or dirty wipeout slider like Randy Johnson. Who cares, Jamie Moyer was boring as well. Boring is not a bad thing. There were a lot of bad things said in that video; calling Gonzales “boring” however wasn’t one of them.
In some respects Seattle lefthander Marco Gonzales is a mirror image of Greg Maddux, whose fastball averaged 84.7 mph between 2002 and 2008 (pre-2002 data is not readily accessible).
Interesting. I would call him Jamie Moyer with a bit more velo. He locates his fastball with a good change-up. Marco’s cutter is also solid.
If boring is putting up zeroes on the scorecard then sign me up! I don’t think Marco is boring at all. I never thought Moyer was either. I think they are both Fun to watch. Especially Moyer.
I dont mean boring to watch. I have always been a fan of pitcher’s who know how to pitch. I was a college pitcher and am now a pitching coach. I mean boring as in he doesn’t have electric stuff. It’s not flashy.
Marco is like a good investment philosophy. Diversify your portfolio. Keep your timeline in mind. Contribute regularly. Its boring but it works very well.
No he doesn’t have the higher velocity of other pitcher’s, and doesn’t necessarily need it. His control is pinpoint! I love watching him paint corners only to induce a weak ground ball. Reminds me of a Greg Maddux lite, minus the arsenal.
LOL, for a #2 pitcher Gonzales might seem boring if all you want to see in a pitcher is heat as opposed to excellent control and an approach with his curveball and cutter and change placement and movement that has played well to the park and led to weaker contact and shallower flyballs (basically the Jamie Moyer approach). I love that he updated his twitter bio to “very boring”.
Kelenic is a bigger man than I am… I would demand a trade
And the Mariners would say no. You can play for us or retire.
Based upon?
Mather is an idiot for publicly saying what he did, but the service time thing is manipulated by every team to some extent. First of all to put the cutoff for a FULL extra yr only a couple weeks into the season is begging teams to hold prospects back a couple of weeks. They need to move the cutoff to mid season. Then teams would have to think hard about holding a guy back. It would occur but I think much less then it does now with just 17 days.
The Padres didn’t manipulate service time with Fernando Tatis, Jr. The Braves didn’t do it with Jason Heyward either. Both players started on opening day when holding them back in AAA for 2 weeks would have bought the organization an extra year of control. The Braves traded an entire year of Heyward (#1 overall prospect in baseball at the time) to get him for 2 weeks at the beginning of 1 season. n fact, the Braves could have waited until 2 weeks into next season to bring up their #1 prospect Christian Pache and kept another full year of control over him. Instead they brought him up at the tail end of last season. I totally get your point. Most teams think the way you are saying, but “every team” doesn’t function that way. If so many teams do that and get negative attention for it, the few teams that don’t should also get positive attention.
Yeah, the Yankees didn’t do it with………uh, ………, well, all their prospects are still, well, prospects.
Tatis Jr. had 451 PA in AA. Heyward had only 195 PA in AA but he had an 1.095 OPS there, and he had some PA in AAA. Kelenic has 95 PA in AA with an 0.857 OPS.
Don’t those extra few weeks also guarantee a contract for another year for a LOT of players who will never earn a bigger contract? It’s a shame they have to struggle so… (sarcasm).
Just wondering, what was this kid’s signing bonus before he ever laced up his cleats?
Yeah, but those guys you mentioned are the exceptions. Guys getting held back like Acuna (Braves), Bryant, and Kelenic are much more common then the Tatis’s of the world.
At least there’s some comfort in knowing that rich people are also losing their minds?
As an agent, I hope that Mather’s statements further open the public’s and fan’s eyes to the way some organizations and ownership treat players. One thing Mather didn’t touch upon is the manipulation of player bonuses. It happens. I’m glad that this situation has given players more solid ground to stand on regarding issues of this nature.
You mean player bonuses that are in jeopardy because of 7 inning games? Why is no one discussing all these lost at bats and innings pitched? How about all the wins starting pitchers lose due to pitch counts? Maybe platooning should be illegal because a player is ‘unfairly’ benched against a lefty due to his .175 average versus and it hinders his at bat clause.
Using games played is not a false bench mark or a dubious claim when your counterpoint is that there wasn’t a season. He didn’t magically become MLB ready without pro experience
It’s a shame that business owners can’t run their businesses the way they feel is best. That’s sarcasm, by the way.
Honestly, if they feel they can save millions of dollars by delaying service time, isn’t that THEIR right as business owners?
Yes, it’s a shame that they CHOOSE to not put the best possible product on the major league field today, but why waste a year of service time for a few months where they won’t be competing for a title?
I give the Mets a lot of credit for bringing up Alonso instead of holding him back, but that’s totally up to the organization. If you don’t like the way it’s being done, go buy your own team.
Here’s an idea. Let’s give ‘em all $15 an hour until they actually do something to earn more? Ya know, inventive?
Maybe baseball players should start holding out and demanding more money like football players? Or how about having to pay back salaries when they don’t perform up to standards?
I can’t believe he’s not in the majors by now, he’s already 19! Mariners are wasting his best years! I’m waiting for him to storm off screaming because he didn’t get his candy at the checkout.
Come on up, kid. Let’s see what you do against the games’ best pitchers. Maybe the Mets knew something about this kid after all.
Sounds like Dipoto is defending Mather. Dipoto was executing Mather’s wishes so he should go too. What happened to “let the kids play?” Kelenic was clearly a better option in the outfield last year. Just wasted all that development opportunity. If he plays well in spring he should be on the opening day starting lineup
Can somebody explain how some arrogant little punk outfielder with 83 ABs in AA is a “better option” than anybody in the big leagues? His entire service time argument is a joke, as it would be from any player who hasn’t even seen a season in AA ball. I wouldn’t want that poison in my organization.
You think Jake Fraley or Phillip Ervin etc. was better than Jared Kelenic would have been? That mind set right there is the real poison
Remind me again how many ABs Fraley has in ML, and how he did in the minors? Ervin is just roster filler. And neither has nothing to do with reality or Kelenic.
Kelenic hasn’t even proven he can handle AA, but you’re ready to proclaim him a star? History and years of data prove that to be a fool’s wish.
Calm down, I’ll give you you’re ball back. I didn’t know you were gonna cry. I’m not gonna argue back and forth with you anyway if you’re not gonna make any sense
Obviously I can explain it to you, but it’s just as obvious I can’t make you understand it. Stick to your video games.
The MLBPA needs new leadership, it has not been the same since Donald Fehr stepped down. If the 2022 season is lost then so be it.
All teams do everything this guy said including service time! He just told the truth but killed his career!
All managers need to have known this. This is a sticking point with the MLBPA.
Maybe it’s just me, but I think it’s refreshing when people actually speak their mind. He didn’t say anything overly offensive. Nowhere near as offensive as most “normal” conversations “normal” people have over the course of a day. Anyone else sick of this cancel culture bs?
Speaking down about players as if they are less than human and treating them like they are nothing but a commodity is a yuge problem with the leadership of many if not all of the MLB Organizations. These are people with special skills and talent who draw the fans. It is important for us all to get along and understand it is an equal partnership that makes the sport succeed and grow.
I actually agree with you. I thought this whole thing was really blown out of proportion. I listened to the whole video and it really didnt seem that offensive in my opinion. Obviously, the media will always side with the players because thats where they get their stories and that’s how they get attention.
Between college, the minors, and the fall league, Evan White had about 1800 PAs and he was a wreck at the plate last season. He may need more time in the minors, and as I noted somewhere above, Trout had over 1300 in the minors. Acuna had over 1200.
Kelenic may get promoted before reaching 1200 PAs, but because the AA season will start a month later, he’s likely going to start the season in AAA and they’ll probably want him to get at least 200 PAs there before they reassess.
Nobody should be surprised if he isn’t promoted before June. It would get him a significant number of AAA PAs, it would take pressure off the manipulation speculation, as an April promotion would suggest, and it would allow everything to cool down.
Seattle should already be in a hole at that point, so there shouldn’t be any pressure to carry the team to the postseason at that point. Kidding. Kind of.
I feel like waiting to be called up is just the cost of doing business. The rules are the rules and just like anything else in life if there are loopholes then they will be taken advantage of. It’s better for the teams and their fans to have a young stud for an extra year rather than them getting picked up in free agency by a handful of teams that can actually afford superstars,
I also have issues with the players union pressuring players not to sign team friendly extensions. What if owners got together and pressured each other to not offer large multi-year deals? Obviously, thats illegal but the players union is really a PITA in my opinion. Look what long term deals like Miggy and Pujols have done to their respective franchises over the last half decade,
From everything I can see, this guy either gave his opinion or %100 facts! Kyle Seager IS Over-paid, whats wrong with that opinion…MANY of us share this opinion! Have you seen any interviews with Marco…He IS boring, again just an opinion, but one shared by MANY! Having language-barriers DOES suck, it just makes everything that much more difficult for the development of the player and costly to the team! and last but not least, the service time manipulation thingy….Well NO DUH, it’s SMART business to do this, teams have been doing this a while now! You’re Property of the Seattle Mariners!
The ST manipulation sucks, but it’s an undeniably logical thing to do given how the system is set up. If they 1) had a “super 5” rule that granted FA to the top X service time short of 6.000 and 2) had a “franchise tag” that allowed a team to guarantee themselves the ability buy a 7th year if they are willing to pay a set premium price for it.
That would prevent teams from being able to game the system since you could never predict *exactly* down to the day where the FA threshold is. They’d have to keep prospects down for a lot longer to be guaranteed the seventh year, at which point it wouldn’t even be a whole extra year of control in total anyway if it added up to a few months.
Also it would get rid of the incentive to do any of this to begin with if the teams had the option to just to pay arb-ish prices or a bit more for that seventh year anyway, since the players that this happens to are generally pretty high end and would cost a lot anyway.
It should be 5 years and one day to free agency, plus some extra days to make up for Sept. callups.
IIRC, if the regular season ends in Oct, say Oct 3rd, the most service time a Sept. callup can earn is 30 days. Cut a different rule and say that the most service days a Sept. only callup can get is 15 days. Then set free agency at 5 years, 50 days.
Make it a super one for arbitration too, so that players under control can make a higher salary.
There are rules for once you are on the 40 man roster and before you are on the 40 man roster. This is what they exploited with Kris Bryant. If they made it such that 157 days of service time on the roster made one year (instead of 172 days) and said a max of 30 days of minor league option time (in one year) doesn’t burn an option, then there wouldn’t be the Kris Bryant loophole.
The players union agreed to that clause in the contract. GMs not only have the right to manipulate the service time, they have an obligation to do what’s best for the team. Many times gaining an extra year of control is the best thing for the team.