The Cardinals have condensed an entire offseason’s worth of drama into the span of about two weeks, re-signing icons Yadier Molina and Adam Wainwright, trading Dexter Fowler and striking a blockbuster deal to acquire Nolan Arenado. It’s been a frenzied period for president of baseball ops John Mozeliak, GM Mike Girsch and the rest of the staff, but it seems the bulk of the team’s heavy lifting is complete. Mozeliak suggested at yesterday’s Molina press conference that the team is “pretty confident with the team we have going into camp” (links via Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat).
While the Cardinals may yet seek out some depth up the middle and in the rotation, any remaining additions are likely to be of the non-roster variety, it seems. That suggests that the Cardinals will head into the season with a young and/or unproven outfield mix consisting of Tyler O’Neill, Harrison Bader, Dylan Carlson, Lane Thomas, Justin Williams and Austin Dean. It also looks to rule out the possible addition of veteran starters Jake Odorizzi, James Paxton or Taijuan Walker — all three of whom (Odorizzi in particular) were rumored to be under consideration as of late last week.
There are still plenty of notable free-agent names that could settle for non-guaranteed deals with Spring Training just around the corner. Potential middle-infield targets for teams in need include Eric Sogard and Joe Panik, while veteran starters like Trevor Cahill, Gio Gonzalez, Matt Shoemaker and Anibal Sanchez are among the many free agents lingering on the open market. If the Cards do look to add some competition in the outfield, there are even more recognizable names available on that front. The Cardinals currently project to have a payroll in the $145MM range, per Roster Resource’s Jason Martinez, although that could still tick upward a bit depending on the outcome of ace Jack Flaherty’s arbitration hearing.
Barring a change of heart from Mozeliak and/or a sudden ownership green-lighting of one more big free-agent strike, the Cards seem likely to lean on Flaherty, Wainwright, Miles Mikolas, Kwang Hyun Kim and Carlos Martinez as their primary starters. Depth options include Daniel Ponce de Leon, Genesis Cabrera, Jake Woodford and Johan Oviedo — plus whichever arms the front office can reel in on non-roster invitations in the coming days or weeks.
It is what it is….
Until it’s something else.
“All we are is dust in the wind, dude.”
I still like the idea of trying to put together a trade package centered around Carlos Martinez to try and get conforto from the Mets. It won’t happen, I know. But the Mets are looking for SP and the cards are looking for a LH power hitting OF.
Gonna need a whole hell of a lot more that cmart to just get them on the phone.
How do you know that? Conforto is a free agent to be after this season, still hasn’t resigned and we just got Arenado for peanuts and crackerjacks. Shouldnt you be worried about your own team selling off pieces?
I’d like to see the Cards go after Jackie Bradley Jr instead. While he’s not a big thumper, he does have a very good 280 career BA and he’s one of the top 2 defensive CF’s in the game and one more positive is that he’s LH. We only have one LH hitter in Edman (switch hitter) with Carp in limited use with no NL DH. Seems like Bradley would be a perfect fit with the Cards and an ideal replacement for Bader who is great on defense but a weak hitter. Bradley would be a great lead off hitter with his high on base %.
I’d like to see the Cards go after Jackie Bradley Jr instead. While he’s not a big thumper, he does have a very good 280 career BA and he’s one of the top 2 defensive CF’s in the game and one more positive is that he’s LH. We only have one LH hitter in Edman (switch hitter) with Carpenter in limited use with no NL DH. Seems like Bradley would be a perfect fit with the Cards and an ideal replacement for Bader who is great on defense but a weak hitter. Bradley would be a great lead off hitter with his high on base %.
I would like to the Cardinals to re-sign Matt Wieters and Brad Miller. Miller can be again an utility player and Wieters can be the backup catcher of Yadi. Andrew knizner should start in the minors because he will not get enough playing time with Yadi as the main catcher. If the Cardinals cannot re-sign Wieters another club should sign him.
Good ideA
Wieters swings a GD wet noodle and kniz is 26 so like, i think its time he gets a shot
“ It’s been a frenzied period for president of baseball ops John Mozeliak, GM Mike Girsch and the rest of the staff.”
This is just AJ Preller’s Tuesday
Preller’s Tuesday before breakfast
And I thought the Padres had no names in the outfield (minus Pham). This is like the bachelorette of outfields
Carlson is going to be a household name by the conclusion of the 2021 season.
Ok Stan fair. Here’s my prediction. He’s a decent prospect with one good season in the minors and he’s 21. They’re rushing him to the big leagues because they have no outfielders. He didn’t play well in year one but he’ll have a few good years, get an all star appearance at 24-27, and by 28 he’s declining sorry not sorry!
bold prediction… Carlson makes the HOF and Hosmer doesn’t. Lol
Nah, he didn’t play well in year one because it was a completely messed up season, especially for St. Louis, he had no minors team to prepare him for the call up, and he was thrust into the middle of the order with no real protection. Arenado takes all of that pressure off and he’s going to show why he was such a high-rated prospect this year, his hit/power tool combination is too good for a falloff at age 28 barring serious/repetitive injury
You’re speaking on the talent of a competitive balance pick guy who hit around .255 over a few years in the lower minors then .290 in AA-AAA. So it’s gonna take him time to be good, if great at all. Very true that more talented hitters improve the rest of the lineup because it forces the pitchers to wear themself down mentally and physically. But that’s still minus Dejong now and even an older Yadi. You have 3 great hitters besides him. It takes about 5-6 to get what you’re expecting out of Carlson right now. And if he were a pitcher and Dave Duncan was still coaching, then I’d believe there’s some chance even the coaches get him to the next level. But he’s a guy I don’t see fairing well or being with the team a long time. Everything about him screams quality stopgap to me.
Also Hosmer could hit 2500 hits 400HR easy and his numbers will be improved by the padres offense over the remainder of his contract (if not longer). It’s kinda why I’m boldly pushing my name on people. He can have better seasons, he’s built to play till he’s 40 (see how many games he’s ever missed, injury history).
Um what? Why is the lineup minus DeJong now?
And where does this assumption that it takes 5-6 great hitters to make young players good come from? Good hitters are going to hit and Carlson fits that description
Lol you guys better hope so. Didn’t look particularly close last year to that…
Dejong was trash last year.
Dejong was about as good of a hitter from the rest of the pack in STL and I’m confused what you’re saying because uh yeah he was a cardinal last year in the lineup?
And it can. Pitchers with bad matchups against strong hitters can just walk them to face a weak lineup. Teams like Colorado, NYY, LAD, Houston not only hit better because they have good hitters but because they have these blistering lineups that intimidate and the odds that a pitcher gets out of an inning under 20 pitches with no hits and accurate pitching the whole time is slim.. The pitchers get worn down by the fourth or fifth on average vs the 6th or 7th. That’s 6-12 more at bats or opportunities at least adding up the average number of walks, hits, errors..
The same does not go for starting pitching! But I’m not gonna wear your ear (eyes) off
You said on your above post that the Cardinals lineup is “minus Dejong now.” Maybe you meant Wong?
Hah my bad. Still losing someone who’s bat fits more at the 7 or 8 hitting slot in lineups for most teams making the playoffs annually. My whole point in calling this argument out is Carlson’s not gonna be that good long term and if you wanted him to be then you should invest in more bats to see his bat shine marginally more
Colorado doesn’t have a good lineup, and Hosmer will be lucky to get on a HOF ballot. 2500 hits and 400 HR? Never.
And gold gloves and World Series’s
Hosmer is 31 years old and in 10 seasons has:
4 GG
1 WS win (and 1 loss)
1 All-Star appearance
3rd place in ROY
Received any MVP votes twice, finishing 14th and 24th
176 HR, topping out at 25 in a season
1492 hits
Never lead the league in anything aside from games played in ’17
A 108 OPS+
17.8 bWAR
It’s certainly a career to be proud of, but there’s no path for him to the HOF barring a Bonds-like late-career explosion.
They are fine with their SP depth. really Ozuna actually provdied the best possible addition.
I’d like to see the Cards go after Jackie Bradley Jr instead. While he’s not a big thumper, he does have a very good 280 career BA and he’s one of the top 2 defensive CF’s in the game and one more positive is that he’s LH. We only have one LH hitter in Edman (switch hitter) with Carpenter in limited use with no NL DH. Seems like Bradley would be a perfect fit with the Cards and an ideal replacement for Bader who is great on defense but a weak hitter. Bradley would be a great lead off hitter with his high on base %.
We tried Ozuna and he was hurt and a one way player who was useless on defense. Atlanta got some use out of him as a DH last year. He’s going to be a costly utility player this year if his shoulder doesn’t miraculously recover. Wherever you play him will be a defensive hole.
Seems like a waste if they don’t add at least one more starter, but maybe they are banking on the rest of the division not trying to compete…
That’s a shame. The NL central is up for grabs. If I were the cards I’m going after both Odorizzi and Paxton
@driftcat28 Agreed, but also I expect 70% of the league is in on those guys. So they’re going to be overpaid.
That would be my guess too. Best thing to do is see what you’re getting from everybody and then reassess in July for a deadline deal or two.
Not a bad time to be a mediocre free agent starting pitcher…
@Chief Two Hands Exactly right.
A team looking for a decent SP should look at Shoemaker. O’s, BoSox, Cubs come to mind. I’m sure there are other teams looking for a guy to compete for the 5th slot (or 6th).
Shoe will give any team’s rotation a solid, steady 30 innings a year.
At this point I think I want Walker if we don’t end up with Jake.
If they could get one of those three pitchers on a one year deal they should go for it IMO…but if they want long term deal the cardinals should just save their money for next year…tons of money coming off of the books and plus some rookies might be ready next year…maybe next year they can bring Max Scherzer home
They could use an innings-eater, but there’s no reason to commit long term to anyone who’s left on the market. I don’t think bringing in a fringe outfielder is a good use of funds either.
What I’d like to see them do is sign Justin Turner for 2-3 years and put him at 2nd (3rd on the off-chance that Arenado opts out). That frees up Edman to roam and helps the outfield mix. But Turner would be a luxury. I think they can win the division as-is and spend that freed-up money next year on some real improvements at the top of the staff or the middle of the batting order.
I hate those pitchers who only two thirds of what’s on their plate. Give me an innings eater at the table.
Panik now, avoid the rush.
Serenity now, insanity later.
Tom Sawyer was their best work
No, his mind is not for rent
To any God or government
Always hopeful yet discontent
He knows changes aren’t permanent
But change is
Saw them in ‘86 with BÖC opening.
The outfield is weak, 2nd base a question mark. The back end of rotation questionable. You make a trade for arenado and don’t address any of these issues? No money left?
I just don’t think there are any difference-makers left out there (maybe Justin Turner). They could add before the trade deadline.
2nd base isn’t a question mark. Tommy Edman is their permanent second baseman, above average defensively and he’s shown he can hit. Al he has to do is make the adjustments to address the typical sophomore slump of pitchers changing up their attack.
Davao. I disagree the Cards OF is weak. We have a weak hitting CF in Bader but he’s stellar on defense and a speed demon on the bases a lot like Billy Hamilton who really rattles pitchers when he manages to get on base. The way Carlson played the final 2 weeks of the season and in the post he appears to be a good up and coming hitter. You have a GG thumper in RF with O’Neil who has a low BA and too many K’s.. I’d say Bader is our weakest link. Go after an big upgrade like Bradley for him. Give Carlson and O’Neil another few years to make the grade. But always be on the lookout for guys who are two way players. Guys like Willie McGee who wasn’t a thumper but was a solid two way player can always help a team.
The Cardinals are smart. Just look at that division. Pirates, Reds, Cubs. Why bother. They are a lock. They can always wait until the trade deadline for prices to come down for the playoff run.
You left out the team most likely to win the division. Cardinals will contend, but don’t have the dominant pitchers the Brewers do. The front two and back two are the most hard to hit foursome in the game, can’t compete with that St Louis.
The Brewers pitching staff is thin and they will be exposed with their lack of depth in a full 162 game season. Brewers are a second place team as they currently stand if they don’t upgrade their rotation and/or their lineup
I rate the NL central pitching staffs in this order: 1. Reds 2. Brewers 3. Cards 4. Cubs 5. Bucs.
But not a big disparity 1-4.
Brewers still need to sign a LH starter and perhaps a reliever.
BTW Cub fans will like Davies.
And I’m not really sure how the Cardinals pitching staff is supposedly weak to the Brewers. They have Flaherty and Kim at the top, who are every bit as dominant as the Brewers top two assuming Kim is able to continue his success, and then they have Hicks coming back with a very long period to get fully healthy and Reyes in the back of their bullpen. You are underestimating the Cardinals pitching strength by quite a bit
Not underrating the Cardinals pitching. I like their bullpen a lot more than their rotation. Flaherty and Kim are a nice 1-2, but can’t compare, especially stuff wise, to Woodruff/Burnes. The Cardinals couldn’t even score off Burnes when he pitched the whole game with a strained oblique until the fifth inning.
Houser/Peralta/Lindblom/Lauer are better than the best 4 you have after Flaherty/Kim. And even though I like your bullpen, especially Reyes, it can’t compare to Williams/Hader. And then there’s the the young studs Rasmussen and Topa, that give the Brewers bullpen 4 of the hardest to hit pitchers in baseball.
They finished second in K’s/9 to the Reds, who lost Bauer. Every pitcher they have are in their prime except for Suter (31)and Lindblom (33), so look for even more dominance this season.
We will see what the numbers say after 2021, but I would take the Cardinals pitching staff, ESPECIALLY with Molina behind the plate, over the Brewers any day of the week as it currently stands.
The thing about the cardinals is that they have better depth than all the teams in the NL central…so if one of the pitchers for any other team goes down they are in trouble…cardinals not so much
No such thing as a lock. This team has a lot of questions. The other teams in division aren’t that far behind the cardinals with the the exception of the pirates, and a couple of teams might actually be better.
That’s stupid. Lot a quantity, not a lot of quality in the OF outside of Carlson and Bader. At the very least they need to add a proven 4th OF. Also need another sure-thing for the rotation. We also got rid of two guys that could be our leadoff hitters, and the guy who seems to have the role doesn’t know how to take a walk. Getting Arenado is great, but this offense is still kinda a mess outside of three hitters.
Bader can’t hit and Carlson is unproven in major leagues.
Every player, even Trout, was unproven until allowed to play. Unproven is not necessarily a negative.
Oscarstrash…I agree they have some work to do but I think the big moves come next year when a lot of money and roster space comes open…they will have some rookies that might be ready and, hopefully, I pray anyway, that fans will be in the seats at full capacity…Cardinals have a short window here to really compete…a lot of questions sure, but I think Carlson will be above average and then they add players next year. 3-4 year window here with Goldy and Arenado…then hopefully Gorman, Libertore and others will take over
i mean all the Cards did was get Arenado. Yeah thats a HUGE upgrade, but i feel like they needed more depth. Central still up for grabs, wouldnt be shocked to see some more moves by my brewers. division is wide open-even though the cards are the “favorites” still think the brewers can easily win this division with a few upgrades.
The Cardinals would have likely won the Division again last year had it not been a shorten season. The Cards are already the cream of the crop and overwhelming favorites.
You’re just trolling yourself at this point mr themed
Damn thing is just going to be a very weak division overall. Injuries may very well dictate results here for sure given the low bar.
oh yes very weak overall, but people forget that the brewers pitching, especially the back end of their bullpen is very very strong with Hader and Williams.
They add a few more bats and another starter to go with Burnes and Woodruff, they are going to make some noise for sure.
PECOTA has the Brewers winning the division and the Cardinals coming in third with a .500 record. How much stock we should put into that? I dont know but you’re right not everyone is seeing the division as a sure thing
“All the Cards did was get Arenado.” Yep totally wasted offseason, miller park.
never said it was a wasted offseason. Get your eyes checked pal
They made one move, it was a huge move, but that was it.
Not like they added multiple bats, starters, and relievers. Division is STILL up for grabs, even with Nolan there, as i said.
Miller Park. The Cards pitching is not their problem. They have a good, not a great rotation. It might be better than good if Martinez can ever mature and focus and if Mikolas comes back with the great control he had before his 2020 injury. Then we have Reyes with talent who could be a good addition to the rotation. If we can get a decent 5 innings out of Waino every week this is a good rotation and a fine balanced BP. It hurt to lose Wongs solid glove up the middle but Edman is quick with a decent glove and a strong arm. He could become a good replacement. Our biggest area needing improvement is the OF and it’s an offense weakness, not a defensive one. If Yelich comes back the Brewers have a good team but not the depth the Cards have. I see 21 finishing Cards-Brewers-Cubs-Bucs-Reds. Then the Cards get blown up by the Pads in the playoffs again. Depth wins out.
Wong was one of the cardinals most productive players. Adding Arenado and losing Wong wasn’t this huge net positive everyone is making it out to be. I mean Matt Carpenter might actually play multiple games at 2nd base. As bad as Fowler was defensively he was still probably their best offensive outfielder.
Fowler’s BA in STL over 4 years was .233. Thomas, O’Neill, Carlson ought to be able to manage that. Heywood & Fowler were busts in STL. Wong & Bader are #8 batters, so one of them had to go. Mo got rid of the older, more expensive 8th place hitter, no loss. “Good glove, no hit”, Edman will give them some offense & prove capable at his natural position (2B). Bader is the only young OF prospect who has been given a real chance to win a line-up spot. Let Carlson, Thomas & O’Neill get regular playing time, which STL never did for Arozarena.
Heyward was phenomenal in St. Louis, he had a 117 OPS+ with gold glove defense. Not sure what you are basing that assessment off of, but he wasn’t even CLOSE to being bust. He didn’t start playing badly until he want to Chicago.
I wasn’t arguing Fowler was a good offensive outfielder just that he was probably their best.
I’m from the same area that Odorizzi went to HS. A friend of mine knows his dad and according to Odi’s dad, the Cardinals have been trying to get Jake since the offseason began but Jake, for whatever reason, doesn’t want to play for the Cardinals. Not sure why, he didn’t give a reason. But this conversation took place prior to acquiring Arenado, so take it for what you will.
Boring city
I was thinking more like he doesn’t want the pressure of playing in front of his friends and family, or friends pestering him for tickets all the time but it could be the Kris Bryant excuse I guess.
I made my comment in jest. Sometimes people don’t love their hometown areas for whatever reasons.
Kris Bryant… is that you? Lol
LOL what a waste. They go and invest $150m in a 30 year old third baseman (blocking one of their best prospects), and then stop there. With a rotation that consists of an ace coming off his worst season as a pro, a 40 year old #2, a #3 who’s 32 and has never pitched a full MLB season, and a #5 who has lately been a short reliever. And their primary depth piece is now in Denver. Good luck.
Not to mention that their OF is a bunch of rookies, their bench is awful because their best piece is now their starting 2B, and I don’t even know who’s in the back end of their bullpen. And Matt Carpenter is still on the roster.
If you’re gonna go for it, go for it.
Everyone assumed the Cards were “going for it” with the Arenado trade, but they aren’t. The division is just weak and adding Arenado makes them the favorites (on paper). Arenado was a move for the long term (they’re really banking on him not opting out). Colorado is paying his salary this year and they’re still cutting salary. If they wanted to go all in this year, they would have kept Wong. They’re still focused on next offseason when they’re done paying Fowler and Carp (and probably Wainwright and maybe Molina).
Yes basballpun…I think they will go for it next year when fans are in the seats and money is coming off the books…see what the rookies can do this year and go from there
I don’t understand. I know there are a ton of people who dislike the Cardinals here, but why are you complaining about their lack of moves? Shouldn’t that please you? Or will it be just that much more irritating when they are in postseason again despite not spending an extra 30 million and drive up the market like the big city teams?
I think Gallo, or maybe even Calhoun could be had pretty cheap. Cards need another LH hitter in that lineup. And they need at least a fallback for the OF.
Being from the DFW, trust me theBirds Don’t want Gallo, and Calhoun is still gun shy from that incredible bean he took 2 years ago, the Rangers are looking to unload both.
I think they’ll eventually sign an arm. it seem like every year someone on their pitching staff goes down for the season (or majority of it) during spring training: Waino, Reyes, Miles
I guess this news, if true, bodes well for my Giants chances of adding Odorizzi or Paxton – or if I’m being greedy – BOTH! 🙂
Long time reader who hasn’t posted a comment on this site in over 10 years.
It’s really lame that you guys try and make the news instead of reporting it whenever it comes to anything Cub or Cardinal related. I know why I get it. But it doesn’t make it ok.
Anyone else remember the Brian Robert’s trade rumors???? Bunch of cubs fans thought if they kept saying it they could make it true.
Turns out you guys were ahead of your time. Reporting news with a bias is a generally acceptable practice in 2021. But it still sucks…..
Mo will not tip his hand
That’s because he’s still got them in his 4 point of contact. He finally pulled the trigger on Arenado, He gets one right every couple of years.
st louis-next article-bought pitcher
Typical