The Angels announced that they have signed veteran outfielder Jon Jay to a minor league contract with an invitation to big league camp. Jon Morosi of MLB.com reported earlier that Jay was close to a deal with a club.
Jay, 36 next month, has appeared with six different teams since he first entered the majors as a Cardinal over a decade ago. His finest years came from 2010-14, all in St. Louis, as Jay overcame low power to post above-average batting averages and on-base percentages en route to a .295/.359/.396 line (112 wRC+) in 2,424 plate appearances.
Jay struggled during his final year as a Cardinal, 2015, but rebounded to log league-average numbers in the ensuing two seasons with the Padres and Cubs (Angels manager Joe Maddon was the Cubs’ skipper then). Since 2018, though, Jay’s output has fallen off a cliff. In a combined 1,258 PA with the Royals, White Sox and Diamondbacks, he batted an underwhelming .272/.337/.347 (86 wRC+). Last season was especially tough for Jay, who hit by far a career-worst .160/.211/.240 as a D-back, though that came over just 57 trips to the plate.
Jay, despite his difficulties in 2020, did parlay a minors deal into a big league roster spot then. He’ll hope to do the same this year as outfield depth for the Angels. The fact that Jay has extensive experience at all three outfield positions surely appealed to the Halos.
cant wait for the hate comments. dunno why this guy gets hammered so hard.
When the article states that Jay hit “an underwhelming .272” since 2018, that kinda sets up the haters. In my book .272 is pretty respectable for a journeyman OF.
Did you just ignore the .347 slug? Or do you not know what those number mean?
It’s where you oddly cut it off, but it’s not the .272 that is important in that sentence
“.337/.347 (86 wRC+)”
That is the problem when you’re a poor fielding OFer over the age of 35
Plus, hes been dramatically worse than even that the last 2 seasons
I agree with you… I mean no one’s claiming that he’s an Allstar caliber OF, in fact he’s not even really a passable regular at this point in his career. But he doesn’t need to be… he’s already had his peak and was quite solid for a time as a ML regular. But now he’s a reserve OF and everyone who’s jumping on the “he sucks and… what do you not even understand what his stats mean?” bandwagon are just being ignorant. Hes not a starter anymore nor is he even really a great part time OF. But he still puts together professional at bats and is a passable reserve. There’s no reason for people to be hating on him so hard… his role is just to fill in from time to time and hitting. 272, even without any power at all, is still a solid enough clip to provide some (albeit not a lot) of value just by allowing the starters to get rest and knowing that by giving a starter a day off you can plug this guy in and he’ll provide you with competitive, professional at bats
It’s probably due to his College of Criminal Justice. It’s the only thing I can think of.
Cue the tolling of the Law and Order percussive chords
Cornering the market on fringe OFers.
Goes to show how poorly they view adell. Dudes years away from reaching majors with how poorly he played both offensively and defensively terrible. Wouldn’t be surprised to see marsh pass him in a years time.
False. The number of all-stars who struggled when they first came up is incredibly long. There isn’t a single person in baseball who would agree with you. Jay is clearly a depth piece.
Again your often wrong as pointed out by our peers. The bust rate in majors is extremely high with most drafts only featuring 2/3 players from first rounds ever making it to the majors let alone being an every day player.
Sure, he was rushed but you see the eye-popping strike out rates in lower levels and it paints the picture that most who do analysis of prospects said during draft. Huge tool box but likely won’t be able to hit enough to be a regular.
I can’t say how many times I have heard of the buxtons, Lewis Brinson, bj upton, jp Crawford having immense upside only to fall flat and sort of that projection. Sorry to burst your bubble adell is no acuna as much as you like to paint him to be.
“The number of all-stars who struggled when they first came up is incredibly long”
Can you find me one who had a wRC+ under 30 in their first season?
Because there is a big difference between “struggling” and just looking pathetic
Mike Trout “struggled” to a 87 wRC+ in his first season, while failed prospect Lewis Brinson looked pathetic to a 31 wRC+ mark
all those baseball ‘experts’ surely would know more than you do in most cases. adell blazed through lower minors with his talent alone. however, to be a big league hitter he needs time to adjust his swing to faster fastballs and breaking balls. he hasn’t. that’s why he is going to spend time in aaa.
@viz blazed through? he had high strike out rates in double a…striking out to walk ratio has always been 3-1. Then last year was passed in terms of production by their best prospect marsh. Willing to be bet marsh becomes a better player to adell long term.
It’s one thing to think Adell won’t make it, it another to think this move show how the Angels feel about Adell. A veteran presence is a good thing.
since adell played in the bigs last season he was taken off the list by many outlets.i believe he is back in some of them.
To be fair, none of those other prospects who didn’t also debut last year had to deal with an extremely small sample size of a 60-game MLB season and no Minor League season. Adell could’ve had time to figure it out (either in AAA or MLB) over the course of a full season.
by the way, maki, what would you get if he fails? satisfaction that a young baseball prospect fail to make it? or a payout from your bet that he won’t make it?
i hope tatsumaki fails to punch!
Correct. Last season was unique. There was limited Spring Training and no minor league games. And he went through a swing change. I’m no more worried about him than any young player.
Hey Grammar Police! You don’t need the word single in your third sentence. It is redundant, just like you.
Most young players who hit (and field) that pathetically in their first season do not see much, if any more games than he did in 2020
But I’m still waiting for someone to point out a couple All Stars who hit for a 29 wRC+ in their first season.
His .161/.212/.266/.478 is a historically horrendous season, unmatched by many. Failed prospects generally do much better than that even. There’s only been 37 rookies to post an wRC+ under 30 since 2000, and it’s mostly catchers or middle infielders. Of the 7 OFers with a first season that pathetic, only Dewayne Wise has had a ML career over a few years long (he played 11 seasons, and posted a combined 65 wRC+ over that time. He was kept in MLB for his defense)
And that it comes off a .264/.321/.355/.676 line in AAA the season prior for Adell (in SLC, the Coors of the PCL, of all places) …that does not bode well for his odds (all stars who genuinely “struggled” in their first seasons generally hit extremely well in AAA prior to said struggles. Adell looked as pathetic in AAA as he did in the Majors)
So yes, it is smart for the Angels to bury him on the 2021 depth chart as he almost certainly needs a full season in AAA, if not a few. And they better hope he is about the most rushed player in recent history that they need to rewind time on. But if 2019-20 is a true exposure of his talent against high level pitching, then we are looking at a failed prospect
wRC+ is voodoo math only taken serious by witch doctors & the institutionalized.
wRC+ is little more than normal OPS adjusted for park factors and put on a 100 scale (100 being average)
It’s taken seriously by pretty much everyone, even those with extremely limited knowledge of stats.
It shouldn’t be something people look at and question just how pathetic a 29 is, or how hard a sub 30 wRC+ is to produce (it’s an amazing 70+% worse than the average hitter)
Oh I understand completely what it is & how it’s calculated, which is simply another overrated, overhyped saber metric that is nonsense & should be thrown in the garbage. Maybe most of the people in your little bubble take it seriously but real baseball people find it laughable. But since you’ve pushed all in on it by all means enjoy.
Gotham, get out of the 70s. Not much else to say.
Oh that’s so clever halo11, pretty much what everyone expects from an angel fan. Speaking of the 70’s isn’t that about the last time you guys won anything? Ahahahaha!
It’s not suppose to be clever. You think we know less now about how to evaluate players now than a half century ago? It’s comical. You really need to get out of the 70s.
Well I’m happy to hear it wasn’t supposed to be clever because it certainly wasn’t. I’m not sure what your hang up is in the 70’s, that’s 20 plus yrs b4 I was even born. Listen you want to buy into the mind expansion slop they’re selling you go for it but save your breath, you couldn’t sell me directions to the men’s room If I was about to piss all over myself
Well then learn something. How anyone dismisses wRC+ as a stat is beyond belief.
If you love it so much build an alter to it & bow down to it every morning & pray that Arte is able to get his head out of his a**. b4 it’s too late. As for me I have to get back to the hookers & the midgets, so the last word is yours my friend.
Yeah but that’s not a fair comparison because of the nature of last season. (covid and no minor league seaaon) most likely had there been a AAA season he wouldn’t have even been in the majors to or at least he wouldn’t have stayed up so long. But when the options were either him getting NO at bats whatsoever or struggling at the ML level, they chose to give him the experience in the majors even if he wasn’t ready for it. He was only 21 years old last year and has only been in pro ball for 2.5 years prior. So, yes, he was really bad last year, but I don’t think it’s fair to completely write him off as the next Lewis Brinson given the odd nature of the 2020 season.
They do see much more time in AAA in a normal season, along with the possibility of a later recall to MLB (particularly in September) if things go well there.
“Maybe most of the people in your little bubble take it seriously but real baseball people find it laughable”
You mean, only people in “my little bubble” care about things like getting on & moving yourself around bases? That’s your argument, is it?
You named yourself after a clever batman villain, but have done nothing but show the joke is actually you
“Yeah but that’s not a fair comparison because of the nature of last season. (covid and no minor league seaaon)”
Then why didn’t it affect other rookies?
It’s being used as the end-all excuse to dismiss Adell’s complete and utter faceplant, but when you look at the other 52 rookie hitters, you realize only 4 had a wRC+ under even 40 …the supposed Mega prospect with his 29, then a 28 year old Catcher in Tampa was 35, a failed OF prospect who had been similarly horrible in AAA the prior 2 seasons for Det was at 26, and a 22yo fielding first SS making the jump from A+ for Cin saw a 3
So once again, ironically, we find Adell clumped in with Catchers, Middle Infielders and failed Outfield prospects, while everyone else seems to have fallen into the normal “did well to struggled at a realistic level” range you’d expect.
So couple it in with his pathetic 2019 in Salt Lake, and Adell looks like a failed prospect
Nice hyperbole Gotham. Nice article on fangraphs that not only shows how accurate it is but also shows it’s limitations.
How many rookies are 21 with little AAA experience who have also changed their swing? If you want to read a lot into it, I get it, but last year was unique With no track record, I don’t.
12 others were 22 or younger in 2020, with only 2 having a wRC+ under even 55 (Adell and that SS who came up from A+)
Historically, there have been 1,132 rookies aged 22 or younger in a qualified season in MLB history. Of them, only 13 have had a wRC+ under 30 (and a lot of the 13 were Pitchers back ages ago) …2 or 3 stayed in the Majors for a while after, but ended with a sub 80 wRC+ for their careers
Otherwise, I’ve been asking for people to find me historic records of rookies who hit similarly pathetic in their first year and then went onto be all stars. Feel free to list all of them you find, including those who were 21 and spent minimal, to even zero time in AAA if you like
So either we have him looking like he is just a failed prospect with the same inability to hit AAA or above pitching we see in most flameout prospects, and/or the Angels are showing absolutely no ability to handle player development and possibly ruining his career right before our eyes
Dark, you make a great case and I certainly understand how you got there. It is a well thought out case. I think this situation is unique. I feel no different about him than I did a year ago. But your position is sound and logical. Nice research.
Keep the faith baby, keep the faith.
darkstar61, you in on this?
I’ve been working on a new saber metic number with Bill James, of course I have to admit that I’ve done most of the work on it while Bill swills cheap wine & binge watches Dr. Phil. Nevertheless I think a lot of you will really appreciate it & any feedback is always welcome. Ok, so first you take a player’s BABIP avg. followed by the velocity the pitcher is throwing, so for every mph you add 1, i.e. 86 is plus 86 all the way to 95, now anything over 95 you reverse the number, so a 96 now becomes a 69 & you subtract 2, unless it’s April in a Midwestern city than you add 4. Now here’s where it gets a little complex so stay with me, if the ball is hit on the ground you take the number of GG infielders, let’s say 1 for this example then you times that by the total numbers of GG’s won by said infielder(s) add his age -on OPENING DAY- this is extremely important then subtract the number of legitimate children he has, if the answer is zero you can substitute siblings instead. Now if the ball is hit in the air you use the exact same formula only now your power number becomes 9 and instead of substituting siblings you just take a wild guess of the number of illegitimate children he has fathered & this will give you a much more accurate view of a players BABIP Avg. Now for example D.J. LeMahieu numbers on the old, antiquated system had him batting .370 in 2020 but using the TUBS system (The Ultimate Baseball Stat) his Avg. is now .370. We understand this may be -at first- controversial but in the long run we hope you will join us in & embrace this whole new way of enjoying our national pastime…. More to come
George Brett was -18.
Does he pitch?
Dang it! You beat me to it…
Lol
Well, he does have a career 0.00 ERA in 1 IP…
Donnnggg … Donnnggg … wherrre is my autommooobille??
Beat me too
Jon Jay what you say!
John Jay? He’s gotta be 270 years old!
Beware the Ides of March.
35
cmon, he was the first chief justice. surely he’s at least 40!
Congrats darkside. I can’t believe other you and me (and the horses we rode in on) know how historic His name is.
He was in the room when it happened with Hamilton and Burr at White Sox camp. Which I believe was on the banks of the Delaware.
Room “where” it happened
He was good only 7 years ago so he fits right in. A veteran to help Marsh and Adell is not a bad thing. The Angels need that 8th inning guy. If they add him, this team’s chances improve dramatically. They have about a week.
Jay will platoon with Trout.
All seriousness not a bad move here.
I didn’t know he was still playing.
Signing Jay. K. Who’s next Elle?
Followed by Eminem, Opie Taylor, and Coach Joel Queneville (“Q”).
The Say Jay kid
Ok. So…Schleber, Jay, Ligares on minors deals. One gets the 4th outfielder spot, one makes the 5 man taxi squad for road games, one goes to AAA.
Let the Spring Training battle begin.
i’m excited for this and i’m not even an Angles fan
Angels having a killer off season if it was 2013-14.
If the Angels sign that 8th inning setup man, I’ll consider this a successful off season, but when they signed Claudio I had a feeling they were going to trial and error the pen again; like they have done for more than a decade and it has not worked even once during that span.
we know
First I am hearing of this
Really? You knew I thought it was a successful off season. Because when I said the Claudio signing was worrisome, not one poster agreed with me.
I am kidding Halo11. You have made you concerns, which are completely valid, abundantly clear.
Claudio has nothing to do with not signing anybody. If they wanted to sign another high priced RP they would of. Oh, and as far as an 8th inning guy, there’s no such thing. A teams best hitters might come up in the 7th, use your #2 accordingly.
Yeah the signing for Claudio was a lateral move from Noe. Same expected leverage situation, same salary, similar everything but HR rate (Claudio gives them up half as often). There was no reason to flip out over Claudio.
It was the move to grab Cobb when Odorizzi and Paxton were on the table. The lack of a move to grab Tanaka. Somebody, anybody to move the needle a bit more.
Quintana was fine as the B side addition to the rotation. When he became the A side, it sucked.
I’m still holding out hope for one more solid reliever. But that hope is fading.
You are dead wrong. Of course it showed something. You don’t fill the last man in your bullpen that early. Especially not in this market. Not in any market. It made no sense. He obviously thinks far too much of Claudio. How do you still not see this?
They got Cobb because they only have to pay him $5mil. And since it was a trade he couldn’t say no to their (likely) low offers to Paxton or Odorizzi
what good is $5 mil when it’s not making your team better? cobb is not better than canning or heaney.
Jabron. I would have rather added a riskier pitcher who had upside. We have other pitchers who are just as good.
Halo11, There is no such thing as “the last man in a bullpen”. I laugh hilariously every time you say this. Virtually Every relief pitcher in spring training (dozens) is competing for a spot on the 26 man opening day roster. Iglesias, based on his pay, probably has a spot locked up. That’s it!
I guess we have dozens of “last men in the pen”, competing for 8 last spot on the rosters. Lmao!
There is not last man in the pen? Lol. He’s the worst man in the pen. How about that? A loogy who has trouble getting RH out has historically been the last man in the pen. It has been debated that such a player has less value than the last position player. Bill James has a great article on this. With the three man minimum, the debate is now over.
Even now that signing doesn’t tell you something? Wow, you must be the Sargent Schultz of the message board.
Halo11 says, if you sign a LOOGY. You can’t sign another RP that off season. Hahahaha! Thanks for that insight 😉
I never said any such thing. At the time, It scared me that they signed someone like Claudio when the bullpen had such glaring needs.? Why get that guy so early..
That was two month ago and if you haven’t come around to what I have been saying you are either stupid or have been lying to yourself.
Since you had to distort my point of view, that tells me you know I was right. As Brian Kinney just said on his show, in this market, there is no excuse for having a bad pen. As Adams says on this site. I have no idea what the Angels are doing.
Wow! A little bull headed are you? Nobody’s wrong or right at this point, or might not be at all. Just because you’re the only one that thinks like you, doesn’t make all of us wrong.
Claudio is not the last guy in the pen, and for that matter, he’s not even going to be the worst in the pen either. He’s not terrible like you think, and you keep preaching consistency, he’s the 2nd best we have in that matter right now.
Career 3.44 era, dominant vs. Lefties. Even his line last year vs. RH hitters wasn’t that bad at a 268/.348/.390 slash line. He’s pitched a lot of multiple innings in his career, if the Angels do just use him as an LOOGY, his ERA next year will even be better than his career 3.44.
Last thing: the Angels jumped out and signed Claudio for one reason. When you find a good price on a pitcher you like, GRAB HIM! You don’t wait, or he’ll been gone. The reason they may or may not sign another top RP arm this off season is all about price, not because of Claudio. You put a price on the RP talent you’re looking at, and don’t go much over. There’s still a few good arms still left out there only for one reason, there asking to much.
I like bringing him and Pujols back together. 2011 Cardinals are one of my favorite teams of all time.
Milt Thompson too
I’m shocked we didn’t sign Yadi. It was a perfect Arte move.
Thank you Angels! I was afraid my Dbacks might sign him again.
He won’t make the team. I’m hoping he accepts a AAA assignment.
Manny Machado’s friend…
The band The Ides of March had a big hit with the song “Vehicle,” maybe from the early 70’s. John Jay was also, as has been mentioned in other posts, a Founding Father and the first chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and the second governor of New York state. The OFer Jon Jay has actually had some decent success as a major league player. He stole 19 bags for the Cards in 2012, scored 145 runs that season and 2013 combined, and had 74 runs and 141 hits for the Royals and D’Backs in 2018. It just seems like some of us feel he hasn’t made anything of his life. I just hope that Jay has something left in the tank while doing battle with the likes of Scott Schebler, Juan Lagares, Taylor Ward, Jared Walsh, Phil Gosselin, and maybe even Jo Adell and Brandon Marsh for AB’s. We’ll see in a few short weeks if Jon Jay is up to the task. But I do like this signing by the Angels even if it’s just because it’s a minor league deal.
This post is a bit long in the tooth
Why? Maddon owe him a favor?
Cub jinglemyer schmidt will sign next after jon jay.
Some players sign knowing they won’t make the team but rather to get work in and audition for other teams, this may be one of those situations
He might as well keep trying. Beats working a real job.
Jay ha rather quietly put together a very respectable career. He may not have much left in the tank now, but I wouldn’t count him out entirely just yet. He’s got solid plate discipline and good contact skills so I wouldn’t be surprised if he winds up making the team at some point this season and putting up respectable numbers as a reserve OF.
I know our new GM is peddling as hard as he can in this his first offseason, but the biggest headline the Angels have generated so far is Howie Kendrick’s retirement.