12:49PM: The trade has been officially announced by both teams.
11:35AM: The Yankees have worked out a deal to acquire right-hander Jameson Taillon, Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports. The Pirates will receive four prospects in return. ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan (Twitter link) reports that the minor leaguers in question are right-handers Miguel Yajure and Roansy Contreras, infielder Maikol Escotto and outfielder Canaan Smith.
Multiple reports broke yesterday that a Taillon trade was nearing completion, with the Yankees emerging as the favorites to land the 29-year-old. According to Mackey, “at least three clubs” submitted offers for Taillon, but it was indeed New York who eventually landed the right-hander.
Taillon joins a Yankees rotation that is headlined by Gerrit Cole, and otherwise has a lot of upside but an equal number of question marks. Corey Kluber has two AL Cy Young Awards on his resume but also has barely pitched in two seasons due to injuries, Luis Severino won’t return from Tommy John surgery rehab until midseason, Domingo German didn’t pitch in 2020 due to a domestic violence suspension, and the likes of Jordan Montgomery, Deivi Garcia, Clarke Schmidt or Michael King are lacking in MLB experience.
Taillon is himself not exactly a sure thing, as he didn’t pitch in 2020 (and threw only 37 1/3 innings in 2019) due to Tommy John surgery. This was the second TJ procedure of Taillon’s career, following an earlier surgery during his days as a star prospect in Pittsburgh’s farm system. While there is risk involved in the acquisition, the Yankees are betting that Taillon is healthy and can match or surpass the form he has showed over his 466 career innings.
Drafted second overall in 2010, Taillon has posted a 3.67 ERA, 21.5K%, and 15.5K-BB% over his Major League career. While not a big strikeout pitcher, Taillon has a mid-90’s fastball, strong control, the ability to keep the ball on the ground (career 48.2% grounder rate) and does a good job of limiting hard contact.
The other important numbers from the Yankees’ perspective were two (as in the number of years of team control remaining over Taillon) and $2.25MM, which is what Taillon is set to earn in 2021. The Yankees are known to be looking to stay under the $210MM luxury tax threshold and reset their tax penalties to zero, so there is added value for the team in acquiring a potential No. 3 or even a No. 2 starter at such a low financial cost. According to Roster Resource’s projection, the Yankees are now less than a million dollars under the $210MM mark, so some creativity will be required if the team is going to make any more additions.
Contreras and Yajure were also both on the 40-man roster, so the Yankees have now opened spots up for Taillon and for one of Kluber or DJ LeMahieu, whose signings have yet to be officially announced by the team.
For the Pirates, this is the latest big move of a rebuild that has already seen Joe Musgrove and Josh Bell dealt in respective trades with the Padres and Nationals this winter. There was no pressing payroll concern surrounding Taillon, but since the Bucs look to be more than two years away from contending, it made sense for the team to shop the righty now rather than risk an injury setback or poor performance from Taillon during the season.
For Musgrove, Bell, and now Taillon, the Pirates have added 11 young players to their organization via the three trades. Similar to the Musgrove deal with San Diego, Pittsburgh received a larger package of prospects rather than a singular blue-chip talent, but it would be incorrect to say that the Pirates opted for quantity over quality. Yajure (#15), Contreras (#19) and Smith (#21) were all ranked on MLB.com’s list of the top 30 prospects in the New York farm system.
Yajure made his Major League debut in 2020, posting a 1.29 ERA over seven relief innings while recording eight strikeouts and five walks. Control wasn’t really a problem for Yajure over his minor league career, with only a 5.9BB% to go along with a 2.47 ERA and 20.8K% over 291 2/3 innings. The 22-year-old also had a knack for keeping the ball in the park, with only 10 homers allowed during his minor league career.
Yajure started 54 of 61 minor league outings, and MLB Pipeline’s scouting report says he “has a high floor as a likely No. 4 or 5 starter.” He could be a candidate for action in the Pirates’ rotation this season, but since he has yet to pitch at the Triple-A level, Yajure will probably begin the year in the minors.
Contreras, 21, was a product of the 2016 international draft class and has yet to pitch beyond the A-ball level, but he has a 3.25 ERA over 249 1/3 innings, starting 47 of 50 games. There is some doubt as to whether or not Contreras will stick as a starter or be moved to the bullpen, according to MLB Pipeline, since he doesn’t record many strikeouts (20.1K%) and is “a flyball pitcher without much life on his fastball.” Both his fastball and changeup receive a 55 on the 20-80 scouting scale, however, and his fastball averages in the 92-95mph range with some quality spin rate.
Smith was a fourth-round pick in the 2017 draft, and the 21-year-old has already shown an aptitude for getting on base. Smith has hit .280/.389/.426 over 936 plate appearances in his young career, reaching as high as the A-ball level in 2019. His left-handed swing doesn’t have much loft, as per Pipeline, but his slugging percentage did jump upwards to .465 in 2019. Smith has played mostly left field and is an average defender overall, and he has shown good skill as a baserunner in stealing 21 bases in 28 chances despite average speed.
An international signing out of the Dominican Republic, the 18-year-old Escotto hit .315/.429/.552 over 218 PA in Dominican Summer League action in 2019. Baseball America ranked Escotto 27th on their list of Yankees prospects, citing his “compact swing” and “solid plate discipline” and also describing him as a plus runner and plus defender. Escotto played mostly second base in the DSL but also saw action as a third baseman and shortstop.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
Wow… Some young talent! Wonder who goes over?
We need space on the 40-man roster for DJ, Kluber, Gardner (when we resign him) and now Taillon. My hunch is, you will see a few of the young guys we protected from the Rule 5 draft in the deal. My hunch is all arms.
I got about 20-30 comments from the top and not 1 person excited as a Pirates fan… I can understand though this seems like a quantity over quality haul of prospects for the Pirates.
Yajure And Contreras showed promise in the minors, Pirates got 4 lotto tickets for 1 imo.
Dude, it’s gotta be impossible to understand what being a bucco fan is like. I like what Ben is doing, but I’m 39 years old and this has gotta be around the 5th or so burn it down rebuild. Not including the other 5 we can rebuild on the fly that didn’t work. It’s just depressing. Our hockey and football teams can figure it out for 15 years at a time, and our baseball team has given us 3 good years in the last 30
Yes, it’s trying to be (and remain) a Pirates fan. I was 9 yrs old when they won the World Series in 1979. My oldest son is now 9 and I’m still waiting (hoping to see) another won before he becomes an adult.
A couple of years ago on this site someone basically laughed at me as a Pirates fan regarding the team’s prospects to win a WS.I did not take it personally because he did not seem to be derisive.
Unfortunately,I realized a short time later that he was correct.
MLB is so slanted toward the big market teams that it will be very rare for a team like the Rays win a WS.
They are already retooling for three-four years down the road.
I feel your pain prospect but I think that that is the main reason for the Pirates having the philosophy of competing just for a WC every year.
I was seven in 1960 and 26 in 1979.I do not expect to ever see another one
You liking the return or what mendoza? Rays aren’t retooling. Morton is just getting old. Who could turn down that Snell haul? The rays said they overachieved last year. I agree. They have the pitchers to replace those 2. They will be fine. Next 15 years there will be a handful of small market teams win a world series. Maybe the pirates will be one of them. Some of these teams just have too many elite prospects and or smart people running things that they can win with a under 150 payroll. Mid markets are going to get their share as well. Padres in present. Braves set for now and long run. Cards always have a shot.
Another poster of the Yankees was right when he said that to win a WS you still need three very good starting pitching who now command $20M a year.Name me a small market team who can afford that?
I know you like the prospects but another poster said that only 1 of 4 make the ML and presumably are decent players unless they were elite prospects in the first place.
I am not saying that the Rays will not have a good team for several more years but how many out of 15 teams in each league make the WS in each year?Snell was their best pitcher.Wouldn’t you keep your best pitcher if you were trying to repeat?
Lastly,the facts are the facts.How many WS titles have the Pirates,Reds,Brewers,indians,Twins,Royals,Athletics,and Rays won since 1991?
How many?
I used to be an optimist when it came to MLB now I am just a realist.
Did Aj Liriano Cole cost 20 million a year? More like 20 million combined. The pirates had a world series contender 3 years in a row. Besides the pitching you need a elite hitter ( Cutch ). They took the cards to game 5. Wild card was unfortunate. No lineup was hitting Arieta and Bumgarner that night. Indians were just as good as Cubs in 2016. Royals went there twice won once. Brewers were close. Just need to make playoffs. Best team doesn’t always or even usually win. Dodgers have been best team for awhile. Yankees haven’t won since 2009. Nationals caught some breaks. Pirates farm has 20 great mlb pitching prospects. 4 of these guys are going to hit. Plus more drafts and trades to come. Trust me. By 2024 2025 pirates will have one of the top rotations in baseball. My 3 favorite teams are cleveland tampa pittsburgh. I see them as the front runners of the small market teams. Kansas as well. Brewers are ran good but not good enough. They never add that final piece and the yelich extension will hurt them. Reds are a horrible run team. Baltimore Detroit is wait and see. Their farms are loaded. Miami Arizona are bigger markets but are doing well. Oakland is failing to adapt like Cleveland Tampa are. Minnesota is like Milwaukee. They need needed to get a ace and failing failed to so. I am Ready for the Cleveland Pittsburgh world series.
I am ready too,and hope springs eternal,but 41 years is a very long time,and I have seen many good ML teams go deep into the postseason,but only one can win,and it has only once been a small market team for basically thirty years now.
Your pen name reflects an adjective,but your answers reflect a verb in your name.
Please don’t let my posts quash your enthusiasm,but dreams can be very elusive when not based in reality.
Nobody can damper my enthusiasm. It’s not even enthusiasm. It’s being realistic. I can care less what some commentor on here or prospect ranking website says. I have the eye for talent. All 3 of my small market darlings know what they are doing. All 3 ar going to be relevant the next decade. Pirates of course are 3 years behind. World series who knows. Bad news is that it looks like Boston Chicago are getting smart. Rich and dumb are easy to contend with, but rich and smart is scary. Don’t need another dodgers.
Also, I agree…..crime dog for the hof
If I were a Buccos fan I’d be pretty pissed too. Getting back 4 unknown, unproven Latinos for Tallion on the face of it alone will not sit well with their American fans…if they have any left. Sad that our “American Pastime” isn’t much American anymore.
Well thats not racist or anything
Always some liberal hippie burnout elitest playing the politically correct race card. Ha!
You’re kinda all over the place with name calling. Hippies and elitists are definitely not the same thing.
They can certainly be the same. Hippies are now college professors and the very definition of elitests. Obviously, you wouldn’t know that.
Why the Latino hate hooligan_bill?
Hooligan bill may or may not be a hooligan,but in his defense he may be just lamenting that there are just not more players from the USA and irregardless of where their home countries are.
I certainly do not want to get in the middle but that was my first take on his post.
It must suck being a Pirates fan
Almost as bad as being an Indians fan.
Cleveland at least makes the playoffs at a decent clip.
As a yankee fan how should I feel about this? The upside is there but 2 TJ’s??? Seems like all potential but never healthy
that will he factored into PIT’s return
Bust
Two years of control, low cost. To me it would depend on who the prospects are.
Mike Minor had 3 TJ just saying if healthy be good back rotation arm.
Minor had a labrum surgery. I don’t remember even one TJ surgery…maybe you’re thinking about Johnny Venters.
I think soria has had three as well.
Venters for sure has.
One I would say has around 85%. For instance homer Bailey hasn’t gotten back to where he was.
Two 50/50.
You hit three you likely arent coming back
Wheeler had two early in his career and still looks decent
You can count on one hand the number of Mlb pitchers who have had 2 TJS AND come back to pitch at the same level as before in the last 20 years
It’s less than 10 i would bet on that. It is a HUGE deal to have a 2nd TJS, compared to this first
Please, cite your source that says wheeler had Tommy John twice. cant find that anywhere in any write up about him
He had complications+ a long return following 15, but he didn’t have Tommy John, return, blow it again, and still excel. Unless every article I found is missing a lot of his bio
“You can count on one hand” but you’d only bet that “it’s less than 10”. How many fingers do you have on each hand?
I think Isringhausen had 3 also
Source please?
Zack Wheeler was diagnosed with both a torn UCL and a torn flexor tendon in the spring of 2015. During the Tommy John surgery, the tendon was, I believe. repaired. During his rehab in mid-2016, he was diagnosed with a flexor strain and was shut down. He did not have a second TJ surgery.. When pitching for the Mets in 2017, he had a couple of arm injuries, biceps tendonitis and a stress reaction of the arm. There is no mention of his having had TJ surgery in high school. He didn’t miss any seasons in the minors. And, he lost two seasons because of his one surgery.
medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=187…
I believe this was a fair trade all around. It also makes sense as far as where these two clubs are. If anything, I find it easier to argue against the Yankees making the trade than the Pirates.. I suppose this gives me hope Tanaka signs with DET…
IMO— B Yanks B+ Bucs.
You should feel good. This is certainly worth it. Second TJ? Who cares. They gave up potential down the road and let their top prospects for a good pitcher with control. It’s a good trade
He was a good pitcher before the surgery. Who is he now? Who knows? What are the Yankees doing building their rotation on crap shoots like Kluber and Taillon? Give me Tanaka for $13-$15 million AAV any day.
I agree that Tanaka would’ve been greatly preferable to crapshoots like Tallion and Kluber, but bringing him back would’ve put them over the luxury tax. You can argue that a team as rich as the Yankees shouldn’t penny pinch like that, and I’d agree, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re doing everything they can to avoid that.
Now, I’d further argue that they never should’ve traded for Stanton and his albatross of a contract, and if they hadn’t they wouldn’t have to make decisions like this, but there’s no un-ringing that bell.
I agree but I’ve always wondered how good(great) Tanaka c/would have been if he had TJ way back.
Stanton was coming off of an MVP season when Yankees traded for him. He carried the offense in the playoffs last year. His salary only seems high because he hasn’t been healthy. Jacoby Ellsbury is making 26 million this year. If you are looking for a contract to blame for Yankees not signing Tanaka, you might want to start there! Also next year’s FA class is the reason to get under luxury tax this year.
Lark…You forgot “and has the worst contract in baseball ” if your being “fair”
Ellsbury’s contract ended after last season, so he has no bearing on this year’s payroll.
At least with Kluber and Taillon we have the chance of a solid rotation. If Kluber is 80% of the old Kluber we have a top 10 rotation. If they are both close to their old form we have the best rotation in baseball.
All we need is 2 of the 5 question marks to hit.
I for one didn’t want Tanaka taking up a spot again where he throws 5 innings of solid ball most starts with the occasional great game and the occasional terrible game.
We know what we had in Tanaka and it didn’t win anything, at least this rotation has a chance for something else.
Just look at Taillon’s numbers from 2018 and yes, you should be excited.
14-10 with a 3.20 ERA and a 1.10 WHIP for prospects who aren’t going to help right now in our 3-4 year window. And he has a contract in the $2m/yr range so he fits our cap strategy.
That’s 2018 (THREE years ago), before major surgery. His SECOND TJS. From what I’ve read, comebacks are sketchy after SECOND TJSs. No, we should be cautiously optimistic at the very most. Excited is not the word for it.
Pirates fan, lol…Worst team ever!
Eh. Yeah those numbers are good for that one year, but remember that was in a no pressure situation on a bad team playing in a pitcher friendly stadium. Transfer those numbers to Yankee Stadium and he starts to look like a prototypical 4 ERA back end type, and that’s if he returns to 2018 form. Probably more likely 4.5 or so. He was actually a bit better in his rookie year.
If Passan is right then they certainly didn’t trade away any franchise altering prospects. Anybody can turn out to be a hall of famer. But as of today it looks like 2 back end starters. A bat first outfielder who to me is the best prospect, could be something above average. And a high upside lotto ticket type that the Yankees sign a dozen of each year. That’s the good news.
Bad news: If the pirates felt Taillon would rebound to his former self would they not have waited till he was on the mound to showcase him and get more of a Musgrove type haul? For that reason I wouldn’t be thrilled as a yankee fan. Will find out shortly.
The way I look at it is they got a bargain with both Kluber and Taillon. They both have great upside if healthy. The Yanks have the back ups with Garcia, Montgomery, and Schmidt. They also have Severino, King, Loasigna and Chacin. That is 11 starters which gives them the depth they need coming off a short season. They lost pitching the last 3 years and they still made the playoffs with many injuries to position players. With a little luck this team is a powerhouse who can contend with any team on the planet!
@driftcat28- Taillon seems like he is healthy and ready to go. He definitely falls under the category low risk/high reward. As a Yankee fan myself I feel like we don’t have to much to worry about in 2021. So enjoy the ride!!!
Dude was last a good pitcher THREE seasons ago. He’s had TWO TJS. You call that low risk? On what planet?
Mo. I’d say he’s low risk in what they gave up for him. With Kluber and DJ needing to sign, 40 man roster spots had to be opened. This takes care of that. Add in the low salary cost and it’s about as low risk as it can be. The Yankees can always add another pitcher at the trade deadline if they need to.
And the four prospects are…
4 guys none are in there top 10. All hovering around 15-21 range in yankees thin farm
The Yankees farm system is not thin.
They have a ton of talent, but most of it is in the lower levels right now which is why they grade out in the middle of the pack by most raters. They graduated so many players to the majors over the last few years that their talent mix has shifted back to younger players.
I think the reason the Yankees farm seems thin is that they have a lot of 45-50 future value guys. Which is great depth, but outside of Dominguez, they don’t have any feature prospects. Florial, Garcia, Abreu, etc are solid but not the caliber of prospects that Gleyber or Judge or even Frazier were.
Yet, they have multiple lower level lottery tickets. The Bucs got multiple shots on goal.
Yankees farm could use a couple more top 100 guys. And more depth. If that’s thin I dunno. I think majority of people think it is weaker then what it is.
The majority of people who comment on this site troll anything Yankee out of jealousy….short fences, bad farm system, over value their prospects, etc….should I go on….when you graduate as many players to the majors as the Yankees, your going to thin out your top 10….the key is replenishing the farm which they do a pretty good job at.
A good example is the Padres….they are always championed as having one of the top 3, if not the top farm systems in MLB yet, and no disparagement meant to Padres fans, they haven’t won a darn thing yet with all those prospects….And, they seem to be “In” on every potentially available player who is on the trade table…..go figure!
Ah, the Yankees farm isn’t thin by any stretch….check you resources before making such a statement.
Rays continuing to sit on their hands while division rivals are improving.
Not sure what you were expecting from them. They’ve already traded Snell and lost Morton. This is the Rays we’re talking about, they rarely spend money and develop there own guys.
This is actually the very type of trade they would make. They need another starter, have been public about acquiring one…this is squarely within proper expectations.
My assumption? Pirates never want to trade w TB again.
I am sure the pirates would trade with tampa. Why not? Because a former gm made one bad trade with them. Tampa probably thinks the same thing I do. If Taillon is recovering so we’ll, then why not wait until he takes the mound to establish he is good and increase his value.
Because if he proves that he is healthy and pitches well he is capable of being near an elite pitcher and would command a whole lot more that what they got from the Yankees.
The haul they received is more than enough to accept now. I wouldn’t bet on him being a #2 in 2021. Not worth the risk.
I think that the Taillon deal was good for both clubs.
I think that the return for a good pitcher in Musgrove was very good.
You are aware that I was underwhelmed in the Marte and Bell trades.
You expect a lot for a average outfielder and a dh. The players they received from them are better than anyone in the Taillon trade by a lot. Those 3 elite pitchers you say are necessary to win championships aren’t coming from the Musgrove and Taillon trades.
I love the returns. Can’t wait to see what they get for Brault Kuhl and Rodriguez. I don’t expect much from Stratton Frazier and Moran. I think Krick can improve and gain a little value. Going to be a loaded farm system. And pirates will have just as good win percentage as last year. Maybe slightly better. These young pitchers aren’t ace material but all are mlb quality.
Nuts for sure. The Rays are loaded with prospects and I’m sure the package could’ve been better than whatever the Yankees gave up. The problem is that the Rays can’t afford a flyer on arms like Kluber and Taillon.
Fact is, the NYY can’t afford fliers on Kluber and Taillon either if they intend to be in win now mode, which is what the brand is all about. Looks like they’re gonna be 13 and counting on years with no titles. Cashman is extending his reign as a GM who can’t deliver titles.
It doesn’t appear titles matter. He’s doing what is asked and delivering the team he can while staying under the threshold when told to. Hence his tenure.
I enjoy a realistic post (no sarcasm). Kluber should have gotten a cheaper deal. I don’t know how long Cashman can hold that position any further. Time to graduate him to President of baseball ops and get some new blood to take over the GM role.
I would guess that the Rays were in on those conversations about Taillon. The Yankees just made a better offer and had the prospect capital to get the deal done.
One of the reasons you make trades in a competitive division is so that your rival doesn’t get their hands on a specific player. that will improve their team.
You feel bad about the Rays… try being a Sox fan with dumpster diving Bloom
But a good upper level farm system.
4 prospects? Ohhh boy!
Last one out of the Pirates clubhouse, please turn out the lights… Nutting is trying to save on the electric bill too.
They’re going to tank so that they can get themselves an Adley Rutschman or a Mackenzie Gore down the line.
and now he’ll become an ace. pirates are such trash.
Bc they are the only ones not cheating.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-8zgvK1UAH4
I was going to say I feel sorry for Pirates fans, but are there any left?
I would say yes, but I’m afraid that if I say it too loud, I’ll be traded too.
the Pirates have such a long and cool history and a beautiful ballpark. I hope you guys can find a way to get the owner to sell or force him to spend money. The MLB is better off when the pirates are able to be a competitive team
It was once said about Bruce Bochy that he could win a pennant with twenty five guys from Labor Ready. It might just come to that with the Pirates.
I am a diehard Pirates fan and I can say that this a fantastic move. We never got enough production from him
Dude, I agree! The Bucs system has totally been transformed since the Marte deal at the beginning of the last season & only has gotten better with the various deals and the drafting of folks like Nick Gonzales. Hopefully by Hayes first arbitration year, things will be coming into form!
Yeah the more I read about the prospects going back, the more I think this was a good deal for the Pirates. Quite possibly for both teams actually. But Taillon is still riding his reputation from being a #2 overall pick. He’s a huge risk with two years of control whose best year would make him a borderline #2 starter. And he’s soon to turn 30. Pirates did nicely here, again.
I agree, I think this is a good trade for both teams. He’s coming back from his second TJS, so his value to the Pirates took a significant hit. The Yankees provided them with young controllable talent at P, IF, and OF, but retained their top prospects.
Good for both.
The Pirates are doing exactly what they need to do. They are thinking long term, trading away their veterans for prospects. Next year some of those prospects will be on the major league club. It will be brutal in terms of wins and losses in the short term, but those players will gain experience and a few will perform well (most probably won’t). .
They will draft elite players in the June draft over the next few years and be active in the international market. They will hoard prospects. When they start getting closer to contention, they will sign a few free agents, package up prospects for trades, and ultimately become contenders again.
I am a San Diego native and a lifelong Padres fan, so I have seen a ton of bad baseball. This is what AJ Preller did. The Pirates can do it too if ownership is patient and committed to building a winner.
@DrDan75- not so crazy in regards to your Diagnosis. At that rate thinking the Pirates and their fans can look forward to a Championship in 2041! Doctor beware!
Don’t forget #1 pick this year and good bet next ! Add a couple vets throw young pitching out there and see what happens!
Yes there are. The Pirates history goes just as far back as the Yankees does. We can’t help if their owners pockets aren’t close to as deep. Easy to be a Yankees fan, not as to be a Pirates fan…but we stick around.
Dave-the Pirates have no fans left.
There were none at any home games last year.
There were no fans at any home games last year for any team; I guess this means baseball lost all its fans.
Upgraded to 2nd best team in NY now. Congrats!
Bills
Yankees
Rangers
Mets
Answer is Islanders
You’re right, I forgot about the islanders!
Clearly! Trotzy is building a force to be dealt with.
Don’t forget about the Hudson Valley Renegades. They should be just above the Flushing Mets.
Yur right cuz Islanders are one and Yanks are 2nd. Where are the Mets? Bottom….
Metsfan22 you are delusional. Thanks for the laughs every day. And before you try to burn me with a Phillies comment, just stop. This is about you, not me.
Ummm- Nets?
I was thinking the same. Knocks aren’t that bad either
Never understood the Yankee/Met rivalry. They hardly play each other. Makes no sense.
Agreed. I will say that Mets fans are far more aggressive about it on the whole. Same thing with Red Sox fans. Blows my mind how much hate they can vent on a continual basis. I grew up in New England. Still have friends from there. So I know. I never bring it up. They can’t shut up about it. And it’s all so extreme. It’s like conspiracy theories. They are obsessed with it. I have no idea how adults can be so hateful about a team, its players, and its fans, over a damn game.
I wish all yankee players nothing but the worst. (Obviously I don’t want them to get hurt on anything like that.)
@Rgrddy as NYer, who’s not a fan of either the Mets or the Yankees, I can tell you this post couldn’t be further from the truth IMO. Yankee fans are passionate and great, as are the fans in any big marketplace. But the environment in Yankee stadium feels cold and corporate. It doesn’t feel like some passionate, legendary place. It feels like a giant commercial, and it’s quite frankly, a very uncomfortable place to watch a ball game.
I’d much rather watch a Yankee game at a local NY sports bar, surrounded by loud passionate fans than sit in Yankee stadium where half the crowd couldn’t care less about the results of the game.
This paragraph is a complete lie.
@Rgrddy Good points actually. And to add to it, I’ve never been to a Yankee playoff game, which I’m sure is a different experience.
@Mets22: “….complete lie”
Yeah I know…. aren’t ALL Mets fans women?!
#28 – coming soon
Yankees fans are one of the most annoying fans ever. They brag about championship won by softball dads. They live next to Mets fans in school and all that so that’s the rivalry. They also get very emotional when the Mets pass them. Like this year.
Also both fan bases live rent free in the others head. Don’t like them tell you other wise..
Sorry but the mets have no importance in our world.
Keep telling yourself that. Y’all start freaking out as soon as the Mets become good.
Yankees fans are always called arrogant. Being arrogant means we are important, you are not.
@MetsFan22- loser comments from another loser Met’s fan. Enjoy 2nd place looking up at the Braves all season. And enjoy watching the Yankees virtual parade in 2021.
Bruh I hate the Yankees but their fans are chill, Mets fans are dumb and stupid always saying they good lol. They never are
@MetsFan22- well then, please let us now when the Mets actually become good and have close to 30 championships? And try to understand just because you have “some talent” it doesn’t always mean your going to win.
@Mets22: Normally wouldn’t ask this, but with some of the suppositions, presumptions, assertions, and absolute claims you make, it begs the question: How old are you?
I only ask because I see some of the responses , including my own, which tend toward saying you’re very wrong, always. I then began to think that maybe you’re just really young(?), in which case, it’s much more……understandable because of your lack of experience.
He’s 12. He may be physically older, but mentally, he’s 12.
You’re delusional
The Pirates are gunning hard for that 1st pick of the 2022 draft.
I say – Gil is the main piece. With a 15-30 top and 2 others
No. Not part of the deal it seems.
Even better
I wouldn’t give up a lot of talent for someone coming off their 2 TJ surgery. We have no idea how effective he will be.
But keep Yankees under that 210 mil luxury tax and they get another arm
The return seems pretty light (Yajure, Roansy Contreras, Maikel Escotto, and Canaan Smith) but on the other hand, Taillon is really injury-prone and the Pirates probably would take any minor leaguer the Yankees had to restock their system.
Honestly seems about right for a guy with less than 40 innings in the past two years. If any become regulars it’s a pretty good deal for the Pirates.
this was just a way to clear 40 man roster spots.
MLBTR, more like trade predictors? I am impressed how just two days ago this site started the rumors and boom, it came to fruition.
They get the rumors from beat reporters’ tweets!
I get that, but this one happened fast, others sometimes take years…
I am waiting on the Benni trade. Thinking maybe they meant this weekend?
Once Feinsand started reporting, it was almost a guarantee. Feinsand is one of the most reliable.
Dominguez +
No way
Dominguez doesn’t get moved for Taillon. That would be as part of a Castillo package. Regardless, we have the four names and he’s not one of them.
I would much rather Cashman put together a top shelf package for Castillo than this package for gamble like Taillon.
Who wouldn’t? Castillo isn’t getting traded. The report that he was even available was wrong. He never was, and won’t be.
Cole and Taillon reunited.
reunited and it feels so good
Cole can show Taillon how to use pine tar to increase his spin rate. He learned it from verlander who learned it when he went to Houston. End result will be everyone looks away while his era gets cut in 1/2
Did Cole’s ERA go down in NYC? No. It went up.
You will love Taillon and like Cole in Houston and now NY you will get all the productivity Pittsburgh never could develop. Surely the prospects are mid level guys that are likely high risk… another sad tale for us who love the black and gold. Yet we know this has to happen until we get an owner who actually wants to be competitive rather than make a profit.
St-Taillon did not develop because he was always hurt.
Any true Pirates knows that fact.
So only teams in the west and east are gonna make moves then? Other than Liam Hendriks to the White Sox, no central teams made moves. Cubs traded Yu but that didn’t improve the team.
Lance Lynn was a good pickup as well.
Forgot they got him. You get my point though. White Sox are 1 of 10 central teams that made an effort to improve their team.
The Royals did sign 3 top 50 free agents (Carlos Santana, Mike Minor, Greg Holland). They are still unlikely to contend, but they have made efforts to improve.
Also Wade Davis to a Minor League Contract.
The Offseason isn’t over yet,
You’re 100% wrong.
KC has signed Santana, Minor, Holland, Micheal A. Taylor, and still looking at LH OFers. Also a gamble on Wade Davis, he may or may not have anything left. It’s not relevant if you LIKE the Royals, or even those moves, but to blubber that no one in the central is making moves is a lie. I’d argue the Royals have been very active, they just did it early.
I’m very impressed with they royals moves. They’d be NL central favs for sure
as a yankees fan, i don’t want this
Yeah it’s not great. Their insistence on staying below the lux tax has really hurt what caliber of pitcher they were able to acquire.
Halos to sign Tanaka?
Gotta be Florial involved
Maybe Gil
Bet a Sp that can step into the rotation right away like Loasiga or King someone like that
Next up Adam Frazier !!!
Much lower than that
Let me guess (Gil, Abreu, a lower level high upside guy, and maybe …… Caanan Smith?)
Yankees fans will never stop including Abreu in trades, huh? lol
But Abreu can throw 100mph!!!
So why not keep him? They always snitch on themselves when they say stuff like this, ahaha
@Russianblue35- Sounds like my boy Abreu can definitely be the Yankees closer of the future. I’d like to hang on to him. He is out of options. My guess is he stays.
that looks light.
According to MLB.com’s prospect rankings these were the Yankees:
Miguel Yajure – #15
Roansy Contreras – #19
Canaan Smith – #21
Maikol Escotto – #NR – 18 years old in 2021, seeing him on other lists in the Yankees top 10 though.
As a Jays fan this would worry me a lot more if his arm wasn’t held on with bubble gum & duct tape.
As a Jays fan, you should be worried your that team still isn’t as good as the Rays.
Fax, the Rays arent making tons of moves but who cares that what they always do. They still have most of their pen and have prospects coming up.
Haha Yankee fans are hilarious outside of Cole the entire roster isn’t about when a player goes on the IL but how many times and how long. The whole team is held together by bubblegum and insane amount of cash. How much did Severino, Kluber and Tailon pitch last year?
How dumb are you to think I’m a yankees fan and not a rays fan based on my comment? real geniuses around here huh? lolll
Three rested arms!!
Tampa fans exist? And thanks for just going straight to my lack of smarts really hitting below the belt there smart guy
Tampa fans do exist. I was once abducted and probed by a few of them.
I disagree with that already and once the Jays are done spending this offseason they’ll be even further ahead of the Rays.
Its just Bubble tape gum and Stickum.
Not going to pretend to know the Yankees system all that well. This looks like a quantity over quality type return to me. Is that correct?
Yes. This doesn’t hurt the Yankees much. Yajure was decent. Yanks were able to clear two 40 man spots here.
Basically yea. If any of those guys contribute to Pittsburgh in the future it’s a good deal for them
Escotto has the highest ceiling of the bunch and most likely would be in the Yankees top 10 if he had played in 2020. He’s the real centerpiece here and the guy the Pirates wanted the most for Taillon. Losing him doesn’t really hurt the Yankees too much though.
There’s a whole bunch of prospects who didn’t play in 2020 who most likely would have ended up wayyyyy higher on lists if they did play any kind of baseball in 2020. The best GMs will be the ones isolating those players and predicting future success the best out of them.
Great. Another crap shoot like Kluber to go in a rotation full of crap shoots. Not your father’s Yankees, that’s for sure.
Cashman has never actually been good, considering he has always had unlimited money to work with, up until this year.
MLB-wide: AA, Beane and Cashman are by far the most overrated GMs/trade-makers/team-builders/whatever nonsense language they decided to use because they were getting too much backlash in the media from the title “GM”. They aren’t “bad” per se, but definitely don’t deserve any special treatment for their results.
The Yankees have won the most games in MLB during Cashman’s tenure. If that doesn’t make you the best GM, then what does? You play to win games and he is the best at it. Finding guys like Gio and Voit make Cashman great not the obvious signing of Cole.
Lark-Cashman could have had Cole two years before he did and won another WS in 2019.
Any decent GM would win with the Yankees’ money.
Having the most wins means nothing unless you are working for at least a mid market team.
I’d hate to see the offers from other clubs. This seems bad.
Great move by the Yankees
I like the move for both sides. Taillon still has quite a bit of untapped potential and getting him out of Pittsburgh should help. I thought he would cost Florial or Gil so I’m glad the Yankees kept both of those guys. Still not a bad return for the Pirates. Smith probably has the highest upside of all the guys going to them but Yajure and Contreras both have decent upside as well
Good deal surprised they didn’t include Andujar.
Why would Pittsburgh want a bad third baseman when they have Ke’Bryan Hayes, the centerpiece of their team going forward? Besides, Andujar has very, very little trade value. I wish NYY fans would stop mentioning him in trade proposals. It’s not a good look.
I don’t see any of the four names from NYY included in the top 17 prospects listed on Rotowire.
None of them are but that’s to be expected when you’re getting 4 prospects for a guy coming off his second TJ surgery. Escotto is the wild card here because he’s only 18 and has supposedly has impressed so far. Admittedly I wasn’t familiar with him at all before this trade but I suspect that Cherington did his homework and likes the kid. It’s a trade that definitely looks better on the Yankees end now but could pay dividends for the Pirates down the line
At this rate I’m hoping Florial gets dealt somewhere. He’ll never have regular playing time in New York. I want to see what he can do with a full season in the big leagues
If Florial has a strong first half in AAA this year I could see him being dealt at the trade deadline possibly for another SP or a RP. The Yankees are probably just waiting on him to stay healthy and raise his trade value before dealing him
This looks like exactly what both teams wanted. We’ll see how it plays out, but on the surface it looks like a lot of young, low minors high-upside guys going to PIT, which falls within their new organizational philosophy of molding young players. The Yankees get a very high-risk high-reward pitcher, once a top prospect who, if healthy can be a #2 at his ceiling, and is cheap enough to keep them under the CBT threshold. Win-win.
I do have to give Cherington credit so far. He is getting more young talent back in these trades than I thought possible. It makes me cringe when teams just dump salary with no concern over what (if anything) is coming back aside from payroll savings.
Honestly, Taillon was under control for two more years, a young guy. This one makes little sense. Hard to see the Pirates winning 50 games this year.
Holding onto to him with the goal of trading him later was a huge risk given his injury history.
Taillon is anything but money in the bank. He’s like the right handed version of Brett Anderson. Not a question of if but when he’ll hit the IL again. At least with Anderson he’s usually on point when healthy. Taillon hasn’t really pitched since his 2nd TJ. Hopes and prayers are definitely in order here.
The Yankees 15th, 19th, 21st best prospects as per mlb 2020 list and some new kid Escotto who might be high upside but not rated yet?
Huge upside. I rank him in the top 20 ahead of the others. But I love upside.
Before we all nuke this trade; this is a low risk move for the Yanks. 4 mid level prospects without giving up Medina, Clarke, Garcia, Florial or Dominguez. If it works out long term great; if he can hold the line for Sevy to return and one of the young guys comes into their own great!!
Agreed, no idea why Pittsburgh didn’t give Taillon a half season to prove his value before trading him, they could have gotten way more at the deadline or earlier midseason after an injury. That said, he might also be finished as a SP and know he’ll never be like he was again.
Marty, the risk of course being if he was ineffective up to the deadline. I’m glad they moved him now personally.
@retire21 that is also true, if you are happy with this haul for him then you aren’t worried about it. Escotto is the one who might end up being Pittsburgh’s #1 prospect in a year or two. I’m not saying it’s a bad haul, but the option of holding and waiting definitely could have gotten more, if he proves healthy.
Marty, no argument there.
Then you end up with Donaldson on the jays trading a guy 1.5 seasons removed from an mvp award who got traded for a 27 year old lottery ticket bullpen arm (who does look pretty good now though)
My thinking is the pirates aren’t fully convinced Taillon is going to be right back to being a #3 let alone a #2 this season. Maybe they felt like he could but it’s a coin flip and the yankees offered just enough to take the safe guaranteed prospect return opposed to gambling on him doing good. I like the trade for both teams.
No prospects are “guaranteed”. Maybe the Yankees aren’t fully convinced that any of the 4 will make it to the majors. Time will tell on this trade for both teams.
No Gil, No Andujar, No Abreu! Wow
Andujar has almost no value to an NL team
I think the Yanks overpaid. This is essentially for one year of tallion.
Two years. He’s ready for the start of spring, and he’s under control through ’22.
I think what he may mean is that TJ patients aren’t usually full strength until the 2nd year they’re back.
This is actually a good trade for both teams. The Yankees need to jettison some players because of the loss of farm teams, and Tallion is better then waivers and the Pirates got themselves some lottery tickets.
Very surprised the Yankees gave up so little. Not sure why the Pirates couldn’t have gotten Gil or Florial in the deal.
Gil has potential, Florial will be a bust and is already overrated. Has done very little to justify any excitement other a possible 4th or 5th of.
@Butch779988- I strongly disagree with you, Estevan Florial will be the guy that eventually replaces Aaron Hicks in centerfield. If he plays, there is no reason why he can’t be a 20/20 guy.
When you trade a player with ?s you get back low ceiling prospects and or huge upside teenagers.
This is a no brainer move for the Yankees at this price. Taillon is a risky addition to a rotation that’s already built with a lot of risk, but the talent exchange is almost too good of a price to pass up. It’s not the worst return ever for the Pirates either, especially considering it’s a clear sell-low on Taillon. I am surprised that there wasn’t an insistence on including one of the more live armed pitching prospects in NYY system though, neither Yajure or Contraras are overpowering with stuff sort of guys, more so pitchability. Smith is probably the highest upside piece, he’s got the potential to be an OBP machine who hits for both average and power, and shouldn’t kill you in a corner OF position. Interesting deal.
Good take. I love the lotto ticket but it’s not like the Yankees can’t replace him.
Contreras — Excellent arm with upside.
Yajure— Sorry to see him go. Very poised, has four good pitches. Doesn’t light up the radar gun but he likely can contribute this year.
Maikel Escotto— I’ve never heard of this guy, which means he’s probably the key to this deal. : -)
Canaan Smith — Good bat with an excellent eye.
The Maikel Escotto part is funny af
He’s a new guy to the list with some significant upside. Might be the best prospect here.
Escotto is the one out of the group who very likely could end up the Pirates #1 prospect, the others, no way.
Another good post. Yeah those dominican kids usually end up to be nothing but sometimes you get a tatis. Kid could be something special but a long way to go. I like his chances as good as any. My favorite piece from the trade.
Damn, it’s the Musgrove return minus the headliner. What a shame
Well what’d you expect? Taillon didn’t even pitch one inning last season coming off a second TJ surgery. This is as good as it gets
I mean, when healthy he’s been much better, at least results-wise, than Musgrove. Plus TJ isn’t the same career death knell it once was.
2 though is a turn off.
Lottery tickets is about right. I’m not impressed with Dominican pitchers who have “meh” K rates…..it’s just easier to throw junk in the low minors and get away with it. OF Escotto looks to be the best “get”, but he’s 18.
That said, Tallion has his warts, and the 2 TJs are a major concern. It looks to be pretty fair. Gotta wonder where the Sox and Jays were.
Jay’s are still trying to figure out what happened with Brantley. Sox are hard working the phones on benintendi.
wow, frazier wasn’t included? amazing.
He may have been if Taillon actually pitched.
All 4 prospects show promise. Trade not as weak for Pit. as it looks but the payoff probably comes in ’23.
Miguel Yajure, Roansy Contreras, Maikel Escotto and Canaan Smith are the prospects. None are Top 10. Yajure highest ranked as Yanks #15 prospect.
Escotto likely the top guy in the deal, he’s too new to be on most lists
I like smith the best out of the prospects. But love me some huge upside teenagers. Escotto is my favorite piece of the trade.
Like I said yesterday couldn’t imagine getting high prospect for taillon. Question for Yankees fans , what’s the story on escorts, someone mentioned other site had him a yankeevtop ten, but not much to read about. Any info
Great skill set and tore it up hitting so far. Contact and power. Sees the ball well. Promising but 18 years old. Eta 2023 if he makes it. I feel good about him though.
It will be interesting to see how he does in A or AA ball.
I hope for the Pirates sake the 2022 Draft is a good one, because they will be picking first ( even ahead of Baltimore).
That’s a Cherington guarantee ™️
Any money left for Gardy? What’s the salary commitments now?
Taillon looks healthy, he’s sporting a new delivery in his workout video, and he still possesses his talent. Hoping for a (fairly) injury-free season ahead
MLB send teams down to AAA if they can’t maintain a respectable and competitive club teams like the Pirates, Reds and other teams that trade players because they are getting to be to costly needs to really see if they want to be owners anymore.
Yeah, I’m sure the owners would agree to a situation like that..
29/30 teams in baseball could easily avoid relegation. there is one that might not and I heard they just traded away a guy named Taillon…
Must be a New York, LA or Chicago fan. Most teams are the same boat as Pittsburgh is now. Most teams do not have a huge local TV deal to draw revenue to pay big contracts continually and still be able to withstand those big contract that end up being bad contracts.
even many “small market” teams spend more then PIT, or dont spend but manage to do well.
Pretty sure they traded Taillon for prospects. Not worried about the 2 mil. Pittsburgh will spend when they need to. They just spend wisely.
Love this trade! Yajure and Contreras were on the 40 man roster. So their are 2 spots that open up for DJ and Kluber. So expect another trade for a spot for Taillon.
They also could simply cut someone like Ford.
@lordd99- nah Ford stays. Another trade or maybe they’ll release Brook Kriske, Ben Heller or Luis Cessa or something.
I’m sorry but this makes no sense for a team in perennial win now mode. They haven’t won in 12 years. Not Taillon, not on top of the Kluber trade. The NYY now have two high risk potentially high reward SP’s. What are the odds they both hit? Because they need to both come through in order to compete for the WS. On top of that they have German, who missed a whole season. That’s 3/5’s of the rotation as question marks. The only solid contributors are Cole #1 and Montgomery #5, The entire mid-section is a gamble. Not win now mode caliber at all. Horrible offseason. Horrible. Cashman gets an F and Hal gets an F for being cheap. The CBT is not nearly as odious in real dollar cost as they make it. Rich win now mode teams need to just suck it up or suffer brand deflation.
The Yankees refuse to suck it up because of the Tax. Last year they should of signed both Wheeler or MadBum for one Cole. I would of loved Castillo more but Reds asking for Torres and Dominguez is insane.
You’re insane for not knowing the trade values of your players. Both are not equal to the value of Castillo.
@BadBenjamin- Not insane at all those players mentioned were never going to the Reds anyway. At least Cincy fans will have something to look forward when Castillo pitches every 5th day. They still have a chance to win the NL Central. They should leave the team as is. The loss of Bauer will hurt them though.
I absolutely love this trade. I think you have it wrong. Regardless of CBT thresholds, I’d make this trade 7 days a week. There’s almost no risk here for the Yankees. Three of these players are at A ball, and one is a potential serviceable reliever. Could they turn into more 4-5 years from now? Sure, but the Yankees window is now. For a player with as high an upside as Taillon, it’s absolutely worth 4 low level minor leaguers who all rated outside the top ten in the Yankees farm system. You’re not mad at this trade; you’re mad that the Yankees didn’t sign or trade for a proven ace. Two different arguments, and two that have nothing to do with one another.
Twizted
It’s not a matter of whether the deal was a fair swap of value. It’s a matter of whether or not Hal/Cashman are going to deliver on the brand: perennial win-now. It’s clear they’re not going to. And that, not good value, is why the deal is bad. It fails to deliver on the brand. The risk that they are taking is that a pitcher with 2 TJS will bounce back and be a #2 or #3. That, to me, is a big risk. And if he doesn’t, the Yankees don’t get far in the postseason. Period. It’ll be 13 years and counting of spending a lot only to fall short.. btw, we don’t need an ace. We have Cole. Tanaka, not Taillon, would have done fine.
@MoRivera1999 I still don’t think you understand; once again, you’re not mad about trading for Taillon, you’re mad that the Yankees DIDN’T sign or trade for a more proven starter or go over the CBT threshold. You’re conflating the two when they’re independent of one another. You’re acting like trading for Taillon has prevented the Yankees from doing something better. Taillon doesn’t impact other moves. They could still go sign Tanaka if they wanted to (which they don’t), so calling the Taillon trade a bad move, implying that it somehow affects the Yankees’ ability to be the Yankees, is laughably wrong. Trading for Taillon doesn’t prevent the Yankees from “delivering on the brand” as you put it, although I fervently disagree with your assessment that it doesn’t deliver on the brand because they bought low on a potential stud starter. Yes he’s been hurt. Maybe he doesn’t pan out, but it cost the Yankees nothing from the win-now pool of resources. That’s as Yankee as it gets—potentially robbing another team of a cost-controlled stud.
By the way, Taillon is no risk. No risk because even if Taillon is hurt day one, all that happens is that he doesn’t pitch. He cost four players that wouldn’t have made an impact during our competitive window. He did not cost significant payroll or CBT space, he didn’t cost significant win-now players, and he didn’t cost a long-term commitment. Risk is not in him not pitching. That’s not what risk means. Where is the risk?
Furthermore, you’re arguing that the Yankees aren’t delivering on the brand because they essentially aren’t crossing the CBT threshold. Fine, if that’s the argument you want to make, I won’t fight you on the principle. I want them to spend more too. That said, Tanaka is the guy you want to cross the CBT threshold with? Tanaka “would have been fine!?” You want the Yankees to go over for the third year in a row, which would cost two 2nd round draft picks and 50 cents on the dollar for everything over $210M, so we can sign a guy that is on the wrong side of 30, has a potential time-bomb of a ligament tear in his elbow, and, doesn’t do anything to improve upon last year’s rotation? He’s been a Yankee. We lost plenty with him in the rotation. He’s not the guy to put us over the top, and so if your complaint is that the Yankees aren’t going over the CBT threshold, you should be aiming higher. Taillon at this point actually has higher upside than Tanaka for way cheaper. Of course he has to stay on the field, but I’ll take Taillon with his stuff for $2.5M, over Tanaka at $15M-$20M (his asking price), 2 draft picks, and 50 cents on the dollar on everything over. Especially knowing that there are capable rookies waiting to get a shot if Taillon doesn’t pan out. If you really want the Yankees to be the version of the Yankees you’re missing, then go upset the apple cart and argue for a Bauer signing. Forget about small fish that still put us over the threshold.
@Rgrddy I think the Yankees aren’t worried about going over the CBT long-term. I think every few years they want a reset to avoid the loss of draft picks, so I’m sure they’ll go over again in ’22 (assuming it’s still even a thing after this year). That said, Judge is an interesting case because he’s constantly hurt. Buying out arbitration years on a guy who can’t stay on the field, no matter how good a player, doesn’t make sense. I expect they’ll ride out all of his arbitration years and reassess. If he stays healthy the next couple of years, I can see them spending big. If he doesn’t I can see them letting him hit free agency and offering a reasonable contract more equal to his actual value.
Don’t forget Severino whose also coming back from a lost season. Behind Cole, the entire remaining rotation is going to have their innings significantly limited. I know they have a deep bullpen, but they’re going to wear them out this season with 4/5 of a rotation that can’t get beyond the 5th inning.
I would use a opener sometimes. Also have cole as the 3 starter. Have that one game in the middle that the pen can get a guaranteed break.
I don’t know how to feel about the return. It’s not bad, but I was expecting maybe a little more. Though I guess a two time Tommy John victim only gets you so much, even if they are a good pitcher.
i like it a lot and that’s the first time in a long time I felt this way about a Pirate trade.
I really liked what he got back for Bell and Musgrove.
I love all of BC trades. I loved all NH trades besides the obvious one and his early ones.
I love it. A mega upside kid. A upside prospect. And 2 solid backend starters. I am surprised though. Didn’t think the Yankees would part with Escotto. I would have guessed 2 upside 10 to 20 guys with 2 40 man guys.
As usual, Pirates got fleeced.
It’s not fleecing when the pitcher is coming off TJ surgery and didn’t throw an inning in 2020. Taillon doesn’t have the track record that Snell does either
As usual? Cherington has gotten decent returns so far for every single big trade he’s made so far.
I’m just not so sure about the quantity over quality approach he seems to be taking, especially given the decreasing size of the minor leagues.
I don’t really think that’s the approach he is taking here. The four players the Pirates got back were all in the Yankees’ top 21 on FanGraphs at the end of the season. He got back pretty decent packages for Musgrove, Marte and Bell. In reality, we’re looking a pitcher who’s good when healthy, but has had 2 tommy john surgeries and only has two years of control left. The Yankees’ system is very front-heavy and there was almost no chance they were getting back either Deivi Garcia or Jasson Dominguez. I think it’s a pretty decent return for Taillon.
mlb1225, I think you have it right. Cherington is a master at evaluating young talent and building organizational depth. He has a track record. Depth is important because when you’re ready to win later, you need internal options who can step in when injuries happen. You also want to have prospects that can be traded to fill those holes. Get better at the top but also get better at the bottom. If I was a Pirates fan, I would be optimistic. The Pirates will probably have a rough 2021 season. But when they start winning in the future, astute fans might look back and say that this offseason was instrumental in making that happen. Difficult as it might be, there can be positives in following a struggling team. Having a plan is better than being in a constant state of flux.
Actually think the logic of cheerington is get really young players 17-20 years old that clubs won’t miss in the next 3 years. I feel he projects with another year or two they will be top 5ish of say yankee/padres/dbacks system. So like the dbacks trade for marketing.the return were two young guys outside their top ten, now this yr they would’ve been in dbacks top 5-7…just trying to get them before they jump up the rankings like g. Torres
The pirates do the fleecing. That’s why they are pirates. Take what they can and give nothing back. (Except in that one trade.)
When a trade consists of an apple core with just a little bit of apple left on it for a half eaten slice of pizza with a used band-aid on it nobody is getting “fleeced”.
NYY offseason pitching strategy: throw mud at the wall and see if anything sticks.
How bad was the Pirates farm system going into the offseason? They’ve picked up a bunch of prospects in trades, but there are only so many spots on minor league rosters (especially with the recent MiLB changes), so they are going to have to drop a bunch of their existing prospects to make room.
Ke’Bryan Hayes is way better than most of the players on the Yankees MLB team, let alone their prospects, and he was the Pirates #2 prospect last year behind Nick Gonzales.
@Marty McRae- Absolutely! At this rate the Pirates should be World Champions in 2041. So hang onto those two prospects that your hot for!
Yank-That is actually an optimistic outlook.
The way MLB is structured the mean year that the Pirates would win a WS is 2092.
There has been one small market team win since 1991.
There are eight small market teams.
For you analytics buffs,and also history buffs,there is no predictor of the future better than the past
Each small market team has on average a 0.5% chance to win in any given year.Obviously it is higher if they have a good team like the Rays had this year.But for every year reaching the WS the small market teams will have 30 or more years of not reaching it.
That is why it is shameful that the Yankees have not upheld their rich tradition recently and it took the Dodgers 32 years to win one.
They have a extra minor league team called the pirates.
YDGM – Marauders too!
As a Penn State and Steelers fan, I know the sports market there and trust me, the Pirates are last ( Pitt Panther football included). Pirate fans know they will pick someone like Bonds or Cole knowing they are gone ASAP ( the opposite of the Steelers and Penguins).
Bonds played seven years in Pittsburgh before signing as a free agent with SF. After the Stanton contract I wouldn’t be too confident you guys won this trade.
NY_Yankee, if you were as attuned as you claim you would know that NO Pitt Panther team is more popular than ANY professional team in the Burgh. As a fellow PSU fan I say “Thank God.”
MLB is not run like any other sport. There will never be a level playing field compared to the NFL. Stupid comment.
Actually,it is not even close to a level playing field.
So much so that it begs the question”Is that the Intent.
I kind of like this from both sides. The Yankees didn’t give up a ton in terms of high level talent and do get a lot of potential even though the floor of Taillon is pretty low considering his injury concerns. But the Pirates also did do a decent job in sort of hedging their bet. Sure, Taillon could break out and be an ace and they missed out on trading him at his highest value. But there’s also a very real chance he lost his ability and is another victim to injury. Four high reward lottery pick prospects is not a bad return at all.
Very good deal for NY. While you can dream on a couple of the kids they included in this deal, they didn’t have to give up any of their Top 15 prospects and the 2 pitchers they gave up seem to have a ceiling of a #4 or #5 starter at best. I wonder if the real ‘prize’ of Pitt’s return is the 18 year old IF Escotto? He certainly impressed in his first year of organized baseball but he was only 17 years old at the time. He has another 2-3+ years of minors development ahead of him before we know if he is a true MLB prospect or not. All in all, the Yankees acquired a solid #2 or #3 starting pitcher (if healthy) with a ridiculously low salary and didn’t have to give up any of their top prospects. You make this trade 10 times out of 10. Well done, Cash, well done! I really thought this was going to cost them Luis Gil & others.
The key phrase in your good comment, in reference to Taillon, is “(if healthy)”. This is a good deal for a team that can gamble with its #2 or #3. The NYY, however, are already gambling on a #2 or #3 with Kluber. They are already gambling with German. They are already gambling with Severino, who won’t even be around until July probably. And then for depth they are gambling with Schmidt and Garcia. This may be a fine position to be in for many teams but not the perennial win now team, the NYY, a team which has not won a title in 12 years. It may be a decent trade in terms of value, but it’s a bad trade if what the team needs is a solid #2 or #3. Tanaka is not a sure thing (few pitchers are) and he’s more a #3 than a #2 at this stage, but he’s a far better gamble than Taillon.
Yes, Escotto is the one with highest upside. He’s on a few Yankees top 10 lists, but most exclude him completely because he has very few ABs at any level. He seems a likely fast riser, Smith also looks interesting, but time will tell.
An absolute steal for the Bucco’s! The Yanks got got, lol…
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Did your keyboard from your Commodore 64 get stuck on O?
And good for Pitt on insisting that Canaan Smith is part of this swap cause all he’s done has gotten better by the season while being drafted outta HS & his numbers have just sweetened by the year!
Plus Yajure, Contreras, and a lotto ticket for Taillion & his injury history?
Theft on behalf of the Bucs…
Should of just signed Garrett Richards
Ridiculous
One problem is the Yankees were filled up on the 40 man roster and need to make room for DJ LeMahieu and Kluber. Two of the guys they traded were on the 40. That makes things easier for them.
I think its good for Pittsburgh. Tallion has had TWO TJs and hasn’t pitched in two years, pushing 30.
I know this is a “quantity” buy, but this is the ole Jimmy Johnson idea of get as many picks as possible and some will work out. This is the Pirates just loading up their system with prospects. We all know prospects most often don’t work out, but the more quality ones you have the better chance you have of hitting on one. Same thing with the Musgrove deal.
There is upside in a couple of these guys. Smith and Escotto are intriguing. Yajure has good upside if the velo uptick remains while Contreras is probably a low ceiling high floor guy.. I would rank all 4 of these guys among the top 20 Yankees farm hands, in the 12-20 range. That’s not a bad return for a guy who is exceedingly risky.
As far as the Yankees, it works for them too. They still hold their top guys and are taking a flier in catching lightning in a bottle. IF IF Kluber and Tallion return to their former glory this is the best team in the AL East. They hold their top level prospects and are probably thinking even if 1 or 2 of the guys they traded off do make it there is little chance any of them are future stars. It’s well worth the gamble to go after a guy who at one time looked like a TOR starting pitcher.
I can see why it works for both teams.
Totally concur.
Tremendous risk with a potentially huge reward.
Wow, so the yankees go shopping at the Pirates dumpster.
Fangraphs has Taillon as Bucs #2 pitcher with a projected 2 WAR, not quite a dumpster guy!
Better than shopping at the red sox dumpster.
@whyhayzee- you could not be more wrong.
Oh, I sure can be more wrong. But this guy is a Pirate reject. Two surgeries and who knows what. He has projected value? So what. I am often wrong but this comment is pure truth, plain and simple.
@whyhayzee- I respect you like the Pirates so much. Taillon finally seems healthy now. Would it hurt to start liking a American Team like the Yankees that is known for winning? And still root for the Pirates in the NL?
Yankees will have to install an MRI machine in the clubhouse.
But you know what, how many other teams took a chance and it turned out great.
Risk nothing, gain nothing
here is a good read on Taillon
pitcherlist.com/reintroducing-pittsburghs-other-fu…
No sacrifice, no victory
I don’t think there’s a winner or loser in this trade. I think the return was fair going each way.
Yes. Both teams got what they wanted. The Pirates did surprisingly well. I thought Taillon would have to put in a healthy half-season to yield that kind of return. Cherington is building organizational depth. It won’t show at PNC Park in 2021, but he’s doing an excellent job. There is a focused plan. Pirates fans need to be patient, look at the big picture, and support the team in that fantastic ballpark.
#pirates2024
Pirate fans need to be patient. Us Pirates fans have watched terrible baseball for 25 of the last 30 years.We lead the league in patience.
Always-Amen to that.
Seems about right. Odds are probably 50/50 one of the players going back to Pirates ends up as a useful major leaguer, and odds are about the same the Tailion is decent this year.
Exactly. If Taillion wasn’t such a high pick, he’d be a “shrug” kind of guy. And, oh, the AL East isn’t exactly the NL Central.
Cherington seems obsessed with loading up on high floor/ low ceiling kind of guys. It probably went like Cashman saying “OK, I need a couple of 40 man spots. You can have these two. And a couple of could-be and maybe types”.
Cherington is a smart baseball person who understands how to properly build a team. It’s not just about accumulating high-end guys but also adding depth throughout the organization. Your best prospects need better Minor League teammates to play with. That can cultivate a winning atmosphere from top-to-bottom. The Pirates should otherwise focus on player development, which is how small-market Tampa Bay gets it done. Treat every player like a prospect, not just space fillers.
More like high ceilings. Sure he has received some low 90s throwing 4th and 5th starters. But those certainly weren’t targets of his trades. More like him fighting for every lil additional crumb he can get out of the trade.
Cherrington has gotten at least one guy with a high ceiling with several trades. Peguero and Malone for Marte, Yean for Bell, Head (and Rodriguez?) for Musgrove, Escotto (and Smith??) for Taillon, with others who may be serviceable.
Anyone else read “Miguel” and immediately overreacted thinking Andújar was traded to PIT?
Huge overpay by Cashman. 4 good prospects for a SP coming back from a 2nd TJ surgery and only 2 more years of control. He has totally failed to upgrade the starting rotation. They lose Tanaka, Happ, and Paxton. He replaces them with 2 huge question marks -2 years of Taillon coming back from injury; and one year of an old Kluber whose best years are far behind him. Both of these guys innings are going to have to be significantly limited. The Yanks rotation last year looks better than this one. And last year’s rotation wasn’t nearly good enough to compete for a World Series.
I’d rather have the upside of Kluber Taillon. Paxton isn’t a picture of health. Tanaka Happ could easily start to decline. Out of all the Yankees starters, 3 of them should pan out. Hopefully more, if not there is always the trade deadline.
The irony of the Yankees shopping like the Rays.
This is the kind of pitcher small market teams would try to acquire to exist in baseball poverty and still hope to compete.
Well, it worked for the Rays.
buying low means you’re making poverty moves? that’s just being smart.
first off, there is only room for one Darkside, and considering you had to settle for 830 means we know who that is.
How about going with Darkmatter to eliminate the confusion.
I didn’t say it was a poverty move, I said it was a move usually reserved for teams that exist in poverty and have no other options.
But it works for them, so why not us.
Darkside fight! Solution? Two darkside enter, one darkside leaves.
YDGM-You are a bad man,a very very bad man!
I like DarkSide830 better. I vote he keeps the name.
Teams are looking for depth this season and the Yanks now have it with 11 quality starters. Teams will need at least 8 to get through the season.
Okay now sign Tanaka and call it an off-season.
Cole
Taillon
German
Schmidt
Monty
Garcia
Kluber
King
Sevy
Half of these guys are bound to get hurt bc it’s 2021 and pitchers are glass so they still need 1-2 more SP’s
One now, another at the trade deadline.
Outside of King, all these arms have some significant upside. It’s the injury concern, but it appears Cashman is trying to build depth through multiple arms, all of which have upside. The challenge is outside of Cole none of these pitchers can be counted on for 150+ innings, so that means all of them will be used during the season.
You left out Chacin and Loisigna! This team should be fine in the pitching department, Fangraphs has them at #1 before Taillon.
basically spare parts
This is far from spare parts. Just because they didn’t get back a consensus top 100 prospect doesn’t mean the return was bad. Spare parts would have been Andujar, King, Florial and Abreu.
Here’s a write-up on Miguel Yajure:
Age – 22 / Pos – Pitcher / Bats – R / Throws – R
Scouting Grades/Report (20-80 scale): Fastball 50 / Curve 50 / Cutter 55 / Change 55 / Control 55
Yajure’s 92-95 mph four-seam fastball is rather pedestrian compared to those of the several flamethrowers in the system, but his command and feel for his entire arsenal allowed him to lead New York farmhands with a 2.14 ERA while reaching Double-A last season. His best pitch is a solid to plus changeup and the addition of a cutter with similar upside made a huge difference in 2019. He also can spin an average curveball for strikes.
Because Yajure isn’t overpowering, he’ll have to prove he can continue to miss bats against more advanced hitters. He throws strikes and commands his stuff better than most of the system’s pitching prospects, generating a lot of weak contact. He has a high floor as a likely No. 4 or 5 starter.
Yeah I love this guy I think he’s ready now .. even if it was out of the pen but I sure for the bucs will start him I’m still going to forward his career.
Yajure can help the Pirates immediately.
Probably. The Pirates have no number one, they have 5 number 5s.
Right Rgrddy! He’s only pitched 11 innings in AA . He got 7 innings in the big league pen last season so he’ll probably go to AA to start and then his timeline will be closer to the projected contention window.
Smith looks intriguing…
Got to be one of the scariest Yankees rotation ever. Everyone other then Cole has a big question mark next to there name. All of great potential but just to risky. Hope Cashman is planning on trading for someone else.
Fangraphs say otherwise, #1 starting pitching at 22.6, Mets and Padres at 20.0. Yanks on paper are at 50.6 WAR #1, and Dodgers at 46.2 WAR. Yanks will be fine with Cole, Kluber, Severino, Taillon, German, Montgomery, Garcia, Schmidt, Loasigna, King, and Chacin.
Other than Cole (#1) and Montgomery (#5/depth), maybe Loasiga (depth), they’re all question marks, especially Kluber, Severino, Taillon, and German, who will all be tasked with performing the duties of the bulk of the rotation.
Nick Nelson was also a starter throughout the minors and could enter the mix, if needed.
Scary if you’re the medical staff. Except Cole….all coming off injuries or surgeries.
Here’s a write-up on Roansy Contreras:
Age – 21 / Pos – Pitcher / Bats – R / Throws – R
Scouting Grades/Report (20-80 scale): Fastball 55 / Curve 50 / Change 55 / Control 50
He first reached Class A at age 18 in 2018 and spent all of last season there, leading the South Atlantic League with 12 wins as the only teenage pitching qualifier in the circuit. There are divergent views of his future, with some scouts seeing a future starter with three solid or better pitches while others wonder if he’ll miss enough bats to stay in the rotation.
Contreras has 92-95 mph fastball that touches 97 and features high spin rates that create some riding action, but it can get hit more than it should because it lacks plane and often gets too straight. His best secondary offering is a mid-80s changeup with heavy sink. He’ll also show some curveballs with good shape, though his breaker is more of an average pitch and doesn’t overmatch same-side hitters.
Very advanced for his age, Contreras already has feel for sequencing his pitches, repeating his delivery and living in the strike zone. He’ll need to refine his command to survive against better hitters, especially as a flyball pitcher without much life on his fastball. Given his aptitude and competitiveness, his proponents believe he’ll figure it out.
Stanton, Judge, and Kluber can welcome Taillon to the Yankees Disabled List.
Big injury list party coming this season
I’m so sorry to lose Miguel Yajure he’s going to be the real deal but maybe just a reliever..a very good young upside guy that’s ready to do big things now or soon.
All it takes is a quick search to show the Pirates actually did well here. Success following two TJ procedures is minimal; even more so among starters — Capuano/Eovaldi are arguably the most accomplished two-time recipients (SP).
Not all pitchers are created “equal” and rehab/arm-care is being refined as time goes on, but history would suggest it’s unlikely Taillon returns to being an impact starter.
But hey — you never know; eventually someone’s going to be the exception to the rule!
The other side of that is that “prospects” are just that. For every one that becomes a top major league talent there are dozens that don’t make in the majors. All teams farm systems have plenty of career minor league players. But like you said: “eventually someone’s going to be the exception to the rule”.
If the early prospect return is accurate it tells me the pirates didn’t feel optimistic about Taillon returning to form in 2021. These aren’t prospects a gm would target. More like a take it or leave it. I like smith the best. He could be a good hitter.
Tallion was drafted right before Manny Machado – nice going Greg Smith.
yeah they should have known he’d he injury prone. smh the hindsight bias some people have on this site.
Here’s a write-up on Canaan Smith:
Age – 21 / Pos – OF / Bats – L / Throws – R
Scouting Grades/Report (20-80 scale): Hit 55 / Power 50 / Run 45 / Arm 50 / Field 50
Smith controls the strike zone so well and opponents were so afraid to challenge him during his 2017 senior season at Rockwall-Heath High (Rockwall, Texas) that he drew 57 walks, the ninth-highest total in U.S. prep history. The first position player drafted by the Yankees that June, he signed for a slightly over-slot $497,500 in the fourth round and led the Rookie-level Gulf Coast League with 46 free passes in his pro debut. After a rough 2018, he rebounded last year to top the low Class A South Atlantic League in walks (74) and rank second in on-base percentage (.405) and third in batting (.307) and OPS (.871).
Smith has the bat speed, strength and plate discipline to become a solid hitter in terms of both average and power. He did a better job last year of driving the ball in the air and to all fields, and more pop will come if he adds some more loft to his left-handed stroke. He’s patient rather than passive, piling up walks while showing a willingness to turn his swing loose if he gets a pitch he likes, and thrives against fastball and offspeed offerings alike.
A quarterback in high school, Smith’s stocky build belies his athleticism. He’s a fringy runner out the batter’s box but is quicker once he gets going and stole 16 bases in 20 attempts last year. He shows average range and arm strength on the outfield corners and has spent the majority of his time in left field.
Is this really the best the Yankees could do .. I hate the cap
There is no cap. I know you mean luxury threshold. That’s why payroll management is important. Teams sometimes overspend at some point which might tie their hands in the future.
Seems like a solid return for Pitt, and a somewhat shaky return for the Yanks. Pitt is playing the long game at this point, and accumulating talent; grabbing a number of very young players means at least one could blossom into more than he’s currently seen as and collecting a basketful means you can dream on more than one.. Taillon appears as more of the same for NY, i.e. uncertainty. For a large market perennial contender, filling your rotation with Cole plus a bunch of gambles seems like an unnecessary risk.
Pirates gonna run into the lack of minor league roster spots soon, like the Padres did this off-season. Organizations are a lot smaller than they used to be.
Pittsburgh has an additional minor league team called the pirates.
Devish, It’s not terrible for the Yankees if Taillon is healthy. The problem is that he hasn’t pitched since the second surgery. If I’m the Yankees, I would have wanted to see him pitch a half-season first for that kind of return. Maybe Cashman was concerned that Taillon would end up elsewhere. It’s probably an indicator that the SP trade market is dry. Taillon is the best anyone can do unless they want to pay a king’s ransom for someone like Castillo. The worst-case scenario for the Yankees is that Taillon doesn’t work out and they have to ship another batch of prospects out to replace him, which would turn this 4-for-trade into a 7-for-1. Such things have to be considered before pulling the trigger on the first trade.
Plus, if this is when Cherington wanted to move him, it would have been now or never.
I’d prefer two better prospects instead of four mediocre ones. Not in love with this strategy, but must believe the Pirates did their homework and this was the beat deal since they’re more quantity than quality.
3 prospects in any teams top 30 is not a bad haul.
And Escotto is on a few Yankees prospect lists, but most don’t list him because he’s had very few ABs.
All depends if you think Taillon is sure to be a #2 or #3. I’d you have some doubt then you make this trade and love the return. I have the two upside guys in Yankees top 15 and the pitchers in top 30.
Honestly I like the trade philosophy for the pirates but I don’t like trading Tailon for this package honestly. I think you can get better quality and maintain the quantity strategy for a guy like him. My opinion, but regardless… load up on prospect, most won’t make it, so the more you have the more chances of success you will have
Gotta remember the Pirates knew what they had in Taillon, post-surgery. It’s a leap of blind faith for the Yankees since they haven’t seen him throw. Had he turned out to be a bust between now and the deadline, the Pirates get nothing. Had he been solid, they wouldn’t have necessarily gotten a better package. Since other teams were interested in Taillon, Cherington played his hand now and got someone to flinch. I’m not saying there’s a current health problem with Taillon; just that the Pirates would have the best idea of when/if he might be effective. They surely looked at this from a number of angles.
The Yankees certainly are aware of Taillon’s injury. The Yankees are also very aware of what potential the prospects going to Pitt have (or don’t have). Taillon may not fully recover and the 4 prospects may never reach the majors. Time will tell.
Taillon has been throwing since last summer. He’s been on the mound and is expected to go to ST with no restrictions.
It amazes me that people think that teams that spends millions on players don’t do any homework..
You can be sure the Yankees have seen some of his workouts, that’s what Scouts are for.
Don’t forget that Taillon and Cole are good friends, so the Yankees probably knew almost as much as the Pirates did on Taillon’s health and current status.
Probably time to contract the Pirates organization. If they don’t care to ever field a competitive product, they have no place in the highest level professional league of baseball.
And you have to ask how much more a healthy Tallion, doing what he’s capable of doing, would have brought back at the trading deadline. Likely more.
A ton more of he was pitching every 5 and putting up good numbers. It’s a risk for both teams
not a fan of PIT’s return. you have some high ceiling guys but each has a very low floor. Id think Taillon, while injury prone, could get a better headliner. that they guy substantially more for Musgrove is shocking.
though granted I like Smith more and more as I look at his stats. remove a rough 2019 and they are great. rest of the players are lottery ticket types to me.
Here’s a write-ups on Maikol Escotto:
PINSTRIPE ALLEY from 9/2019:
17-years-old, SS/2B/3B
Escotto was billed as having gap power when the Yankees signed him on July 2nd, 2018, but his eight home runs show that the young infielder is developing more pop in his bat. He also showed solid plate discipline, walking 14.7% of the time, en route to the ninth-best OPS in the DSL at .981, to go along with an outstanding 167 wRC+. Escotto played all around the infield this season, with 23 games at second base, and eight each at third base and shortstop.
DYNASTY GURU from 7/2019:
Maikol Escotto, 2B/3B, New York Yankees. One of the top performers in the DSL (176 wRC+), Escotto is flashing five-category upside. Signed by the Yankees last summer for $350,000, he has had his way with the DSL, hitting .333/.442/.587 with 7 home runs and 7 stolen bases. Fangraphs describes Escotto as an “[a]bove runner and thrower can play both middle infield spots, hit-over-power type that has limited projection left.”
PROSPECTS WORLDWIDE from 8/2020:
18 Years Old / Throw: R / Bat: R – 5’11″ 180lbs – ETA 2025
Present\Future Grades: Hit 20\45 / Raw Power 40\55 / Pwr 20\50 / Speed 45\40 / Arm 55\55 / Field 40\50
An interesting prospect with plenty of potential. Played just one year of pro ball but had a solid average and high walk rate. He can play around the infield and could be an exciting player to keep an eye on.
He showed a good eye to record a solid BA in his first season. Playing gap to gap, he shows intelligence beyond his age, created by a nice solid stance, and generating decent power from his smooth swing. This swing allows the ball to pop off the bat, and he had the XBH last year to showcase this.
Defensively he has good range and a good arm that allows him to make plays across the diamond. His versatility shows his ability to adapt to different circumstances but his quick hands make this an easy adjustment.
He will need a few more years in pro ball to really show his development and grow into the player he hopes to be, but his youthfulness and versatility are key to his growth.
The jump to A ball will be telling. And probably a stumbling block, given the grain of salt DSL results should be taken with
Nice, um….organization filler, Bucs
Looks to me like, long-term, this is a great deal for Pittsburgh. I could see 3 of the 4 prospects making an impact very soon.
Between Kluber, Tailllon, Montgomery, and Severino they’ve all pitched less than 150 innings in 2019 and 2020 COMBINED. thanks for all the depth Cashman.
having more of them increases the chances that someone will stay healthy, or at the least you get more total innings.
And German missed all of 2020.
Is this the Yankees fan page? Haha
No. Haha
And with that the Yankees are done. That is your offseason Yankee fans, don’t expect another move to be made! Happy with it?!
Considering they are trying to get below the lux tax, it has been a good off season.
@Moneyballer- Absolutely!!!
How anyone can say this was a bad deal for the Pirates is beyond my comprehension. Pirates get a bunch of guys with potential and some upside for someone who has not demonstrated he can come back from TJ surgery.
Forget the luxury tax for a moment. I still rather have Tanaka for 15 million than Kluber and Taillon. The guy has demonstrated he can pitch in NY as opposed to two guys who over the last couple of years can’t even stay healthy enough to take the mound. Their pitching staff is worse now than it was during the season.
A couple of counter thoughts to having Tanaka over Kluber and Taillon:
– Tanaka lost his splitter a few years ago and hasn’t been the same pitcher since. He’s won through guile and trickery, but he has no room for error. If he’s a little off on pitch placement, he gets hammered.
– The partially torn UCL didn’t miraculously heal itself and it’s a ticking time bomb. You can argue that he’s pitched with it for years, but it’s still a concern.
Another injury prone starter for the Yankees?!
He should fit right in
Give the Yankees credit they are trying. Both this pitching staff won’t carry them to the promised land. Plus the injuries they suffer yearly, it could be a long year.
I disagree, this team is set to win it all. Cole, Kluber, and Sevy in Oct. will be hard to beat. This is their year!
Get real. Kluber and Sevy are both question marks. You cannot count them in for a #2 and #3 in the postseason until they perform for months. And the risk of them not performing at that level is significant. To bank on it makes no sense.
Yankees looking to break the IL record!!!
27 baby.
lol that was quick
Sounds like the yankees traded 4 guys that just came over the border….on a seriois note,, why trade for a guy that was injured,and why didnt Pittsburgh get at least 1 mlb now player?.. pirates fans out there can answer this?
Not a pirates fan, but pretty sure the pirates were looking for minor league talent with higher ceilings. Part of rebuild. While the Yankees do not have top tiers in there top 30 (a lot of these players are A ball) or was 3 from their top 30, so it was definitely not a loss for Pittsburgh.
Cherington has been dealing looking to compete in 2023 and beyond. The team that ended 2020 was not going to compete without a whole lot of new pieces. There was not enough MLB talent coming in the system to compete in 2021 or 2022. There is a bunch of talent coming at the end of 2022 and into 2023. The guys traded in Marte, Bell, Musgrove, and Taillon would all have been gone before 2023., especially if their production each increased. All of the trades fills holes in the group that they had Alison provides a lot more,depth. Was tired of the MLB ready types that Huntington acquired that had not much ceiling but soldiers floors. The prospects that cherington acquired have much higher ceilings that if the achieve what they should will build a much stronger team in the long run
Pirates have no interest in a marginal MLB talent. Why, so they can win 66 games instead of 63? It’s all about collecting as much talent in the minors as possible.
A friend of mine says he will streak in his birthday suit in the Bronx, if Taillon is healthy and becomes their #2 or #3 pitcher at the end of the season. That would definitely be must-pass TV.
Pirates didn’t take Machado, took Taillon instead
Hind sight is definitely 2020, but it is kind of funny when you think of it.
I’m very curious to hear who might the other two teams were?
Dang it. Pitts came out on top of this one. Taillons health is a way bigger risk than what others are saying and is why Pitt took this package. No other team was offering better and we just gave them 4 kids with a lot of potential. 1 of those 4 helped us out last year in the pen and has posted very good numbers throughout the minors and gets better every year (Yajure). I would’ve been happier with just contreas smith and escotto maybe some other lower pitching prospect.
Damn this rotation has waaaay too many question marks, between the uncertainty of our rookies (deivi/Schmidt) to Kluber, German Sevy and now taillon with their health and missing a lot of time.
I’m trying my best to be optimistic but it’s really hard for a resume with that many red flags. I’m hoping getting him out of Pitt will greatly change his career as we’ve seen with other recent Pirate pitchers who’ve left. Oh boy I hope it works out.
@BobSacamano- My guess is the Rays, Angels, or the Red Suks…
As a Pirates fan, I like this deal. Both teams could come out big winners or big losers. Taillon coming back from second TJ has considerable risk as does any of the prospects making it to the majors as a real contributor.
Going to be a miserable year for the Pirates, but increased hope for another run in the future
Make that at least 2 of us. Getting a lot of depth to add to some frontline talent that is in high A ball or was just getting moved to AA at the end of 2019. Much deeper now in that age group since Marte was traded. 4 quality players moved from the Pirates but none of them would have been in Pittsburgh when that next wave would be coming. I love what Cherington has done so far.
Bucs are building a pretty good farm system without giving much up
As a Yankee fan I would much prefer Tanaka to Taillon. However, Hal didn’t allow it with the budget. Money is the priority with Hal.
Money is a priority with just about every team at the moment
Whatever comes out of this, you can never say that he’ll back down. 2 TJ surgeries, cancer, hit in the head with a line drive, and he played for the Pirates. This man has been dealt a tough hand, but he keeps on grinding.
I said it before and I will say it again it is a good trade for both teams. The Yankees are trying to win a World Series, jettison players due to having to make room for DJL and Kluber and the loss of minor league teams, and trying to reset the luxury tax, while the Pirates will suck for a long time ( maybe the furthest away from a playoff berth then any team in sports ( Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars and Baltimore Orioles included)), so they are better off getting lottery picks for Tallion then maybe getting nothing.
Shame Pirates got more for Taillon then Cubs got for YaDarvich
Mr Ricketts time to sale the club the market dropping ain’t your fault sale them to the Dallas BAsketball team owner
Pirates got 2 upside, 1 safe bet. 1 low ceiling. Cubs got 4 all upside and a mid rotation starter. And shed 60 million. I say Cubs did better.
Taillion will make $2.5 million this year and has another year of team control.
Darvish will make $19 million this year, $19 million in 2022 and $18 million in 2023.
So, why would the Cubs get a better return for trading Darvish? I know he’s a better pitcher that Taillon (a lot better in fact), but that’s a huge contract disparity.
I was gonna say basically the same so……..Well said and. Ditto!
They also got more for Musgrove than the Cubs did for Darvish and while they obviously don’t have his track record, it’s probably because they are younger and cheaper.
The Yankees have a bunch of decent/quality RH’ed Pitchers in the minors trading both Contreras & Yajure was no big deal also including the 17 yrs old Escotto is a no brainer who under the very best of circumstances was 5 yrs way from sniffing the ML’s. OF’er Canaan Smith had no spot on the Yankees. The Yankees gave up excess to fill a need. Excellent move
4 prospects, only 1 had a reasonable chance of seeing an impact at the big-league level this year and none of them were even ranked in the top 10 prospects for the Yankees’ system. Escotto is so young that it’s hard to determine his true value, but overall none of these players were going to provide an X factor for the Yankees in 2021. That being said, I believe there’s still a chance the Pirates might win this trade in the long run. Not a strong chance, but a chance nonetheless.
Cole, Kluber, Taillon, Montgomery and German is a decent starting 5 on paper with Garcia, King and Schmidt as depth pieces. Not to mention a return at some point in 2021 of Severino. There are definitely question marks in the Yankees’ rotation, but I think it’s getting slightly blown out of proportion when you consider the Yankees still have a great line-up and bullpen. It should be noted this team doesn’t need 5 aces to win games.
Pirates already won. 4 guys for a guy with 2 TJ’s. Could have done better possibly but they avoided risk. Yankees can win as well, just pirates already have.
I think this is true but no one else wants to say it .. bucs aren’t going to win this or the next few years and this will help them down the road if they add other players also.
@Mazinger31
“It should be noted this team doesn’t need 5 aces to win games.”
But it does need a very strong 1, 2, 3 to get to the Dodgers in the WS. And Id’ say it’s hard to see that with all the question marks in the rotation they’ve got. Basically, they have to catch lightning in a bottle on two of the top three pitchers.
I think a lot of people are undervaluing Jordan Montgomery. His “traditional” 2020 stats don’t jump off the page, but he was coming back from his own TJ and throwing much harder than he had in 2017. The advanced pitching metrics love him. If one of Kluber or Taillon bounce back, I would bank on Montgomery taking a big step foward next year to make a solid starting 3 and there’s plenty of depth options to fill out the remainder of the rotation.
Also, I’m more concerned about the Yankees making it to the WS before worrying about them beating the Dodgers. Looking ahead, I wouldn’t call LA the clear-cut favorites in the NL. They might not even win the NL West this year with how much San Diego improved. Not to mention how good the Braves are and the if the Mets land Trevor Bauer. There might be a few powerhouses in the NL that should contend for a WS bid.
In the end it looks like the Pirates and Yankees traded 4 lotto tickets for one lotto ticket. Pirates are not guaranteed they will hit on any of the four players they acquired and its no guarantee that Taillon will be the Pitcher he was in Pittsburgh. I don’t really see this as a trade either side can lose
Agreed 100%
Both sides can win, both sides can lose. But if only one side wins, the other will lose.
Good comment. While I’d rather take the Pirates chances, I don’t think it’s a slam dunk.
Yankees got better by this trade?
I don’t think so.
Pirates got better by this trade?
I don’t think so
I’m sure Cashman agrees.
Not a bad deal. Let’s see how he fares in the AL East.
Lars macdonald
Thank you for the prospects scouting info
Great posts!
Thanks.
I read a lot of content about Yankee minor leaguers and through sharing this information might help with the the post-trade discussion.
I wonder if the Pirates will look at the NL East and ask themselves ‘what if we didn’t…and kept them.’ That rotation would be sweet and they’d have Meadows running around CF and leading off.
Nope. By now Cole would be gone either way as they were never going to be able to re-sign him. Getting away from Searage seemed to be the best thing for Glasnow. Meadows is the one they may miss the most
I totally agree with you on Cole. He was never going to resignm just like he never resigned with Houston. He was going for the gusto in FA no matter what. Time will tell on the 3 guys that the Pirates traded for Archer. Glasnow has been looking more like the guy that was in Pittsburgh than the guy that tore up the league to start his Tampa career.. Meadows had a torrid start to 2019 but has been more average after the start to the 2019 season. Which version of each will show up for 2021? Will be interesting to see. Rooting for both of them but who knows how they will turn out…..
AL*
Lots of sniping going on about yankees and their “fans”. I know lots of yankees “fans” who are fine people UNTIL they start talking about the yankees, then they turn on their “jerk fan speak” and that happens every time with every yankee “fan”. Utter arrogance, indifference towards the game of baseball, only interested in reciting the party line of every pathetic “fan”. Not much different than trumpers.
Yankee players for the most part are really good guys. Sure there’s been some skunks like every team has but by and large they are really good guys. I only want them to lose so their pathetic “fans” shut the hell up.
That’s it in a nutshell. When I meet a yankee fan who doesn’t spout the pathetic party line all the time, we become fast friends. The rest of you bums can stuff it.
Boy you sure do love to generalize don’t you?
Not really.
InstripedPride was being nice whyhayzee….what a load of bull sh_t!
If your looking for pathetic….look in the mirror because of this post!
LOL! You are exactly the type of fan that 2whyhayzee was talking about. @whyhayzee was talking about fans that he/she knew personally and not all fans. You called him/her names for something that was not even said.
I’m “a yankee fan who doesn’t spout the pathetic party line all the time”.
But, I don’t want to be your friend…
@whyhayzee- we can all see the losing has gotten to you. It’s never too late to become a Yankee fan and root for a winning team finally. Something you should definitely consider for health reasons. Wish you my absolute best.
By the way, no fans anywhere else in America have thrown more crap on the field than yankee fans and that includes disco night.
Actually, if you notice the boards, it happens to be that the individual speaking TO the Yankees fans tend to be jerks. But that couldn’t possibly be the case, could it?
There’s some truth to that. Guilty as charged.
But I stand by my original comments.
The question is essentially what percentage are “fans” and what percentage are fans. That is anybody’s guess and whether other teams have higher percentages of “fans” or not is also a guess.
I mean no ill will, I just get ornery at times.
Me too, look at my posts the past couple days. Ornery as charged and I owe some mea culpa, I’m sure. It is frustrating at times and we get sucked into the madness.
I’m a Mets guy and I like this move.
The more I read about these kids, the more I like this deal for Pitt. The cancelled 2020 MiLB season really hurt a lot of promising prospects and Canaan Smith certainly falls into that category. He had a breakout season in high A ball in 2019 at a very young age with an OBP over .400 and an OPS over .870. He hits for power, steals bases, has a great eye at the plate and his defense seems to be at least average, if not better. Had they played minor league ball in 2020, I could see Smith having moved up to a Top 10 prospect had he continued his development. Yajure should be ready to contribute to the Major League club this year at least in the bullpen, if not as a starter. Contreras has the best fastball of the 2 pitchers they got, so he seems to be on track for a major league debut by 2022 and Escotto is the ultimate lottery ticket who really impressed in rookie ball as a 17 year old.
If healthy, there’s no question that the Yankees will benefit from this deal much more in 2021 than Pittsburg will, but Pitt may have just acquired their future starting 2nd baseman (Escotto), a future starting OF with power and a very high OBP (Smith) and a couple of pitchers who will definitely make it to big leagues…TBD if they come up as starters or relievers. This trade could end up being a huge part of Pitt’s rebuild if the players continue their development. Great deal for both sides!
If he’s healthy- Pitt will benefit bc they won’t have him on their team and that’ll equal less wins
Pitt have a different strategy and they could have won the central this year. Is what it is though
Why so many quality for quantity trades these past few years? gutless GM’s? Have some balls fellas (and future ladies i’m sure to be politically correct)
Silly response.
1-You can only get what you can get. I’m sure they can ask TB for Franco, and I am sure TB will say no.
2-There is no magic about quantity v quality. It is all about the total value of the package.
Think about probability. If you have a player who is successful and sure to be successful, and you’re trading for players who might be successful, you need to match up. A simple example would be 4 players who each have a 25% chance of being successful. Now you have about the same expected value. Plus you have a chance that two will be successful. Then there’s the whole money thing.
Pirates with their first quality trade return in team history. Congrats !
Clearly a typical chain-reaction deal from the DJ’s signing. Taillion was the only choice to stay below the luxury tax threshold since DJ took most part of their budget.
Luis Castillo only makes 4.2 million. I say make another run at him. He would be far and away the second best starting pitcher.
Seems like a lot of prospects for a 29 year old coming off injuries that has potential. What’s his ceiling?
With Severino and Kluber already as injury question marks, you’d think the Yankees would go for a little more consistency and availability.
“Prospects”…That’s the key. None of them are “can’t miss” future major leaguers. Both Yajure and Contrerras have good stuff. Smith did well in A ball. Escotto has shown potential but has never played above the Dominican League..
Taillon has a high ceiling if he can stay healthy…..that is a big if at this point. If you are going to take a chance on someone like Taillon,, why not offer some mid-level prospects? Both teams are rolling the dice on this deal.
Sorry, no, both teams are not rolling the dice on this deal. One thinks it’s a WS contender, and needs this trade to work to help make that happen. The other… doesn’t.
Agee.
Its good (maybe great) gamble. but only if you’re not depending on the guy. The Yankees are.
Spending too much $$ on Stanton, Cole, etc. to just cross your fingers/bargain hunt with much of the rest of the roster.
Yes, losses were huge last year but so is future revenue.
A team’s (even the Yankees who never go full rebuild) window doesn’t remain forever.
Now if they signed Tanaka, a known or at least much safer commodity (and pretty damn good too).along with Taillon …….
With the large number of new players coming into a team’s low minors each year through the draft, international signings, etc., low minors players are the easiest to replace.
Mid-upper, near majors ready are tougher to come by.
When teams get predominantly low level prospects in a trade, unless they’re a top ten rank, it’s like saying “We didn’t get much in value, but we made up for it in volume”.
They say that, until, hypothetically, one of these turns out to be a superstar. Then some moronic hyperbolic commenter authors some drivel about how he knew what an overpay it was when it happened. Everyone’s a superb trade artist with the benefit of time and hindsight bias.
Ted Williams thought Mike Piazza would be good but nobody else did. It can be a crap shoot.
Agee.
Its good (maybe great) gamble. but only if you’re not depending on the guy. The Yankees are.
Spending too much $$ on Stanton, Cole, etc. to just cross your fingers/bargain hunt with much of the rest of the roster.
Yes, losses were huge last year but so is future revenue.
A team’s (even the Yankees who never go full rebuild) window doesn’t remain forever.
Now if they signed Tanaka, a known or at least much safer commodity (and pretty damn good too).along with Taillon …….
sorry yankeee fans andujar and Frazier are staying put for now well until the next Yankee article
Only so many players on one roster that an honest fan can say, “low risk, high reward.” Because it becomes very high risk when you stack your rotation that way.
The Yankees used nine starters in 2020, and that was a 60-game season. They have enough arms to manage the health concerns if they do it efficiently.
Given the state of the coronavirus right now, I wouldn’t bet a dime that MLB’s optimistic projection of a normal season will be realized.
“… the likes of Jordan Montgomery, Deivi Garcia, Clarke Schmidt or Michael King are lacking in MLB experience.”
Montgomery has started 46 games in the majors and pitched in the playoffs.
That’s not a lot of games at all. Less than 2 full seasons. What is your point?
I think my point will be obvious to most who read it.
A pitcher who pitches more than 50 innings in a season is no longer considered a rookie. Montgomery pitched 155.1 major-league innings in 2017 and he’s pitched a total of 230.2 innings in the majors. Those 155.1 innings he pitched in 2017 were more innings than any starter on the Opening Day roster of the Astros pitched that year — the last year they won the World Series.
I think it is also because he is just coming back from TJS himself – so he is nearly 1.5 years removed with some action in 2020. And less than 50 innings in 2 seasons. Filling in for CC in 2017 was great, and provided MLB experience, no argument, but 75 innings over 3 seasons leaves a question mark for how you will be.
True, he has to show he can come back from his injuries to be effective in a full season; but, as you already agreed, that’s not the same thing as a lack of experience. I’m not one to discount his high 5.11 ERA in 2020; but he had a 3.87 FIP, a 3.65 xFIP and a 3.84 SIERA to go with it, and he looked good in his postseason start vs. the Rays with his 2.25 ERA.
Baseball Savant ranked him in the 29th tier in Barrels per Plate Appearance, in the 30th tier in Barrels per Batted Ball Event, just above Bauer, 8th in Hard Hit %, and 3rd in Average Exit Velocity. I’m hopeful.
I can’t believe I’m actually going to say this because I rarely like to give praise to the bronx bombers but this was a DYNAMITE pickup by the pinstripes. He’s young, cheap and has bounceback written all over him. Between Kluber and Taillon one of the two will be comeback player of the year, mark it down! Bravo Yanks, you made a good deal here.
A good deal for each team, as both are looking at upside while also taking some risk. Sometimes, both teams can win in a deal.
For the Yankees, dealing surplus for two seasons of a starting pitcher who is barely making $2M and with Taillon’s skills is an obvious win. The Pirates pick up four prospects. No, not high-end prospects, but all are legitimate and will provide good depth to a Pirates system that needs just that. I can see Yajure having an impact this season.
Taillon also might have been a “victim” of the Pirates prior pitching style pre the arrival of Cherrington. Expect the Yankees to have him pitch more up in the zone as Cole did after leaving. As an organization, they’re good at having their pitchers develop swing and miss approaches.
Agreed on all accounts. No true loser or winner in this scenario. Risky but seems intelligent.
I feel like *this* is the offseason move that once and for all proves to me that the Jays are *not* going for it this year. Maybe next year, maybe the year thereafter. But not this year.
Good for the Pirates. You have an asset, you move it. They’ve done a very good job adding young talent into the organization. They’ve laid out the plan, and are executing it without wasting any time. Player development has to be a priority as well.
The author nailed it. The Yankees rotation has alot of upside, but an equal number of question marks.
Even if everyone pitches well, the Yankees will need 8-10 SP and a solid BP as all the SP not named Cole will be on pitch counts due to previous injuries, domestic violence or age. Stated differently, their SP either haven’t pitched much the last few years or haven’t fully built up their innings in the minor leagues yet.
The Yankees have the SP depth and BP to pull it off, but everyone will need to stay healthy.
This is James Paxton 2.0. Hopefully it works out to Yanks but there are legitimate concerns.
I think he’ll play much better then Paxton did in NY. Just about health with this guy. Has a nice arm.
Paxton was pretty much about health too. In 2019, he won 15 games with a 3.82 ERA and a 3.86 FIP. His 3.5 fWAR was tops in the rotation. He had back surgery the following offseason and struggled out of the gate.
the only way to stop this stuff is for mlb to take away the pirates revenue sharing money so they have to sell revenue sharing money should not go to their other business intrests like 7 springs
Too many fans on here that don’t seem to get it. Even with the TJ surgeries Taillon was gonna command some type of prospect package. He still has tremendous upside which doesn’t come free at this level. The Reds simply wanted too many first born sons for Castillo so that option dried up and died on the vine. What is Cashman supposed to do? Oh wait as one brilliant commenter stated he should have traded one middling prospect along with Kyle Higashioka to the Pirates for Taillon. Backseat GMs everywhere but that made me chuckle.
Considering Taillion’s injuries I guess it isn’t horrible. Would have liked to see a catcher in there, someone like Seigler or Gomez who are both projected to be in the Majors as Stallings contract is coming up.
If he didn’t miss so much time a “blue chip” (as mlbtr puts it) would have to be in there.
Still i think they could have done better. Team is selling low right now.
Pirates are setting them selves up for a ’23 run… if half these prospects pan out.
No world series hopeful builds a rotation of what ifs that become never dids the way Cashman does. Ain’t that right pax? gray? evoldi? vazquez? borwn? johnson? garcia? neagle? colon? pineda?, happ?, lynn? (i am sure i am missing many)
WS contenders and winners go in with at a minimum of #3 stop flight SP. The Yanks consistently go with 1. That is why its been 11 years.
Cashman sucks at his job considering the budget he has for on and field operations.
Pitt getting fleeced they would have been better off sending cash for him.
The problem is the Yankees have not been able to draft and develop starting pitchers. If you can’t do that you need to trade for them. When it gets to that you need to give teams like the Reds more than is fair to get a Castillo.
i agree- but then cashman can’t even trade for the right ones….
I hope nothing but good things for Taillon, so much talent and so much adversity in his short career.
So the Yankees made this trade to clear a roster spot, and acquired a player coming back from a 2nd TJ, that will more than likely be injury prone the 1st year while they attempt to start him, until they finally decide he is a reliever the 2nd year like all the other 2x TJ pitchers end up as.
At least Taillon will have company on the IL with Judge and Stanton this season.
don’t forget #2 SP ace kluber
Polanco must be heading out the door next. He is the last piece with any value.
This deal tells me two things:
1) The Pirates must be hurting financially because they really have a AAA/AA hybrid team on the major league roster. (Some exceptions obviously)
The payroll is now under 38 million.
spotrac.com/mlb/pittsburgh-pirates/payroll/
2) They are aiming at a 2025, at the earliest, bounce back. They really need two good drafts to have a shot.
I think they’ll get them. The Pirates already have the #1 pick in this year’s draft and it’s likely they will select Kumar Rocker.
Goose-Polanco is going nowhere.The Pirates would have to pay almost all of his salary or include a couple of solid upper minor league players in the deal.
They may have to release him if he stinks in ST,especially if Alford plays well,but will end up paying the full $14M to him this year.
Polanco has no value. They are hoping he does average and can eat half his salary and trade him at deadline save a few bucks. I think I would have cut him and kept turly or took on the Yankees salary dump.
Hard not to have 2 more good drafts with top 5 picks. Hopefully 3 more good drafts. I would take Lawler right now. I will watch plenty of Vanderbilt games this year though to see if something changes my mind.
Polanco is a hard sell, between always being injured, off and on performance and contract…
to get any sort of value the pirates would need to eat at least 4M of the contract. just to get a PTBNL
Adam Fraizier is probably the next to leave. Cheap, good defense at second and has had a decent average all through his career.. well 2020 not so much.