TODAY: The trade is official. The Padres get Musgrove, the Mets get Lucchesi, and the Pirates receive the five prospects (Rodriguez, Head, Cruz, Fellows, and Bednar).
JANUARY 18, 5:47pm: This is a three-team trade, according to FanSided’s Robert Murray, who reports that the Mets will acquire Lucchesi. The Pirates will get catcher/outfielder Endy Rodriguez, per Jonathan Mayo of MLB.com.
5:40pm: Pittsburgh will get five players in return, Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports. Head and lefty Omar Cruz are among those going to the Pirates, per Dennis Lin of The Athletic. Southpaw Joey Lucchesi is also part of the trade, Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reports, as are righties David Bednar and and Drake Fellows, Lin relays.
5:18pm: The Padres have agreed to acquire right-hander Joe Musgrove from the Pirates, Jeff Passan of ESPN tweets. The Pirates will receive “a large package of prospects,” potentially including outfielder Hudson Head, according to Passan.
This is the fourth significant trade for a starter in recent months for the Padres, who first acquired righty Mike Clevinger from Cleveland before last August’s deadline. Clevinger was quite effective for the Padres after the trade, but elbow issues limited him to one inning during the team’s NLDS loss to the division-rival Dodgers in October, and he won’t pitch at all in 2021 after undergoing Tommy John surgery in November.
After losing Clevinger for the upcoming season, the Padres swung trades with the Cubs for Yu Darvish, a National League Cy Young contender in 2020, as well as with the Rays for former AL Cy Young winner Blake Snell. They’ll presumably have Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Dinelson Lamet (if he’s healthy after dealing with bicep troubles last year) and Chris Paddack in their season-opening rotation, though prospects MacKenzie Gore, Ryan Weathers and Adrian Morejon could be among younger Pads pushing for starts in 2021.
In Musgrove, San Diego is getting a California native who owns a 4.33 ERA in 496 2/3 innings between the Astros and Pirates, but he entered the offseason as one of the majors’ most intriguing trade chips after a career-best campaign. The 28-year-old threw 39 2/3 innings and recorded a 3.86 ERA/3.50 SIERA, all while registering a personal-high 14.4 percent swinging-strike rate and placing 10th in the majors in strikeout percentage (33.1 percent). That production would have made it more difficult for the low-payroll Pirates to extend Musgrove, who’s due $4.45MM in 2021 and has one more year of arbitration control left after that.
Lucchesi could have been part of the Padres’ rotation next season, but he’ll instead go to New York and compete for the No. 5 spot in its starting group. The Mets’ staff looked terrific before this deal with Jacob deGrom, Carlos Carrasco, Marcus Stroman and David Peterson comprising their top four, but Steven Matz had been the front-runner for the fifth position after a dismal 2020. He’ll now have to go against Lucchesi, who recorded ERAs in the 4.00s in 2018 and ’19 before tossing just 5 2/3 innings in the bigs last year. Lucchesi’s not eligible to become a free agent until after 2024.
With no chance to contend in the near future, it made sense for the Pirates to move on from Musgrove in favor of a package of younger players. For Musgrove, they’re receiving at least four well-regarded prospects in Head, Cruz, Bednar and Rodriguez, whom MLB.com ranked among the top 20 farmhands in their teams’ farm systems.
Head (No. 7) went in the third round of the 2019 draft and then signed a record bonus for $3MM. The 19-year-old possesses an “extremely high” ceiling, according to MLB.com. Cruz (17) and Bednar (20) were also solid Padres prospects, with MLB.com calling Cruz a possible back-end starter and Bednar a hard thrower with promise. Fellows did not rank among the Padres’ top 30 prospects at MLB.com, and Baseball America wrote before the club drafted him that his 93 to 94 mph fastball is “often hittable because he struggles to hit his spots.” However, BA added that Fellows’ slider could at least help make him a legitimate major league reliever.
Rodriguez, 20, was the Mets’ 14th-ranked prospect at MLB.com before the trade. MLB.com writes that Rodriguez has “an advanced approach and natural bat-to-ball skills” that will be all the more valuable if he sticks at catcher, though a future in the outfield does seem like a possibility.
The main takeaway here is that the Padres remain serious about vying for a World Series – something they have never won – in the near future. Even if it doesn’t happen in the short term, though, the Padres appear to be set up to succeed for the long haul. Their MLB roster is one of the game’s best, and as BA notes on Twitter, the Padres still lead the league with seven top 100 prospects.
MetsFan22
The Mets did this.
DarkSide830
denial is one of the stages of grief
MetsFan22
Right now, everyone is catching up to the Dodgers and Mets.
Ry.the.Stunner
You got half of that right.
It’s not that hard catching up to a 4th place team.
MetsFan22
You’re in denial.
Phantom X
You mean the Mets are catching up to the Padres and Dodgers.
VonPurpleHayes
Padres had a tremendous off season and are arguably better than the Mets, but we won’t know until they play some games. It’s insulting to even compare the Dodgers to either team. Dodgers are World Champions.
lowtalker1
You mean the mets and dodgers were catching up to what the padres did
padreforlife
Padres don’t have pitching staff depth like Dodgers
MetsFan22
The dodgers would have better depth and probably still be better but the Mets are a springer/hand away from having a better 26 man roster. They aren’t as ahead as you think.
Balk
I’m not trying to say the Dodgers aren’t a good team, they are and they did win the World Series, but can you say they would’ve still won if it were a full season? We will never know. All we do know is that they won a shortened season championship. They really need a full season championship to wash away any doubts for me.
Lurking
The dodgers were beating teams at historic rates. Legitimately top 5 largest run differential ever at every point in the season
They were on pace to win 115 games. They beat the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the NL, then the best team in the AL. They also won more playoff games with fewer off days than ANY champion EVER in history
You sound like a fool if you try to pretend the dodgers weren’t legitimate champions
deweybelongsinthehall
Mets’ rotation after deGrom has question marks. They also still have to sign the players mentioned.
angelsfan1522
The dodgers are light years ahead of the Mets wot he their depth it’s not close the Mets traded away a lot from their system. I’d much rather have the dodgers over the next 5 seasons.
bencole
Hang on, what? I’m trying to figure out how someone could say what MetsFan22 just did… I think they added Lindor, McCann, and Trevor May. Am I missing someone (obviously I must be, because this only makes them maybe 5-6 wins better)? Close to the Dodgers? Like, by close do me mean 13-15 wins back? I’ve gotta be missing a signing for real if someone is suggesting this.
VegasSDfan
The Padres could be compared to the Dodgers. Both teams are very good, each has very few weaknesses.
The Dodgers had a stronger 2020 rotation and more playoff experience.
The Padres had a better lineup and relief pitching. The Padres wore out their relief pitching in the playoffs due to their #1 and #2 starting pitchers being out. They didn’t have adequate replacements at the ML level.
In 2021, the Dodgers are going to be a 2nd place team
Padres458
Springer and hand and your still worse than the dodgers
whynot 2
As it stands the Mets only really question when it comes to the rotation is who will be the 5th starter when season begins. That’s an enviable position.
VegasSDfan
And 99% of the country missed watching the World Series, and doesn’t even realize the Dodgers were the champions.
ROFL.
Fernando Tatis got more publicity than the Dodgers winning it all.
itstimefordodgersbaseball
Yeah the Mets aren’t even past the braves yet. They have to actually win some games first and make the playoffs before they are with the best teams. The Padres are the second best team in the NL.
Marty McRae
Mets got Luccessi
bucketbrew35
Ummmmm.
Darvish
Snell
Paddack
Lament
Musgrove
Gore
Morejron
Weathers
That’s depth on par with the Dodgers for sure.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Padres now have a pretty sweet squad.
Preller is having himself a great off-season.
I loathe tanking. There should never be a reward for intentionally losing. But if teams are going to do it (& they are!) then the way San Diego did it is damn near perfect, serious.
Big trade.
Padres one of the teams giving us a lot to talk about this season. In honor of that I’m going to throw *two* extra logs on the wood burning stove.
Gonna get crazy with it.
bhambrave
The Mets aren’t catching up to the Padres or the Dodgers. They are trying to catch up to the Braves. They have a ways to go to catch up to the Padres or the Dodgers.
fox471 Dave
Someone is.
fox471 Dave
Of course they would have won!
fox471 Dave
Of course.
stymeedone
@loldodgers
You sound like a fool if you pretend it was a normal season.
LABeachguy
I don’t see that. I see a better Padres starting rotation than the Dodgers. Who is 3,4 and 5 for LA?
davidk1979
Carasco and Stroman are very good
Mrtwotone
The Mets and Padres need to chill. The braves need a bat! 🙁
MrMet1979 2
A championship is a championship bro. Don’t be a hater because your team wasn’t good enough to win. You’re on this thread trying to rationalize some BS.
MrMet1979 2
Yeah they still won though. But I see the Padres logo whatever helps you sleep at night.
Balk
Yeah ok buddy, the only person who sounds like a fool is you! You’re playing hypotheticals acting like they were going to win out at that pace! Haha! Injuries happen, etc etc! Like I said, if you know how to read, Dodgers are a great team, not taking that from them, but in a long 162 game season a lot can happen. Who’s to say Yankees and Judge along with Stanton got hot what would’ve happened. I watched the Giants beat down year after year teams like the Dodgers who were predicted to win. It’s who’s hot. Like I said, if they repeat in a full season then they can own a REAL Championship. Sorry bud, imo
MrMet1979 2
Yeah it’s still a real championship though. It’s in the record books and part of history your deranged words really can’t do nothing to change that. You got hate in your blood. It’s over they won move on with your life
Michaelchavez22
@ balk You should remove your comment
pepenas34
For the eight consecutive time Dodgers won their division, since half of the teams went to playoffs it is less important the season and it’s a bigger gamble to be the world series champions. I say 8 teams was too much. I don’t see any of the doubts, it was a bigger task.
jh8913
Lmaooooooo
jh8913
These Mets fans are delusional lmao
Fan0Sports4
Resigned Stroman who missed 2020
Got Carrasco to go with Stroman and Degrom
Mets still have all their key pieces
Entered the offseason with needing a C, Right handed bat, Rotation and Bulpen needs
Defense
C-Mccann-Good defensive C with a bat
Right handed bat (Switch in this case) Lindor top 3 defensive ss and top 5 player
Rotation Carrasco, Stroman, Lucchesi
Bulpen May one of the best relievers over the past two years
Still have 25-30mil left to spend
Plenty of top FA they can add to this team
Padres added a bounceback in a shortened season starter Darvish, Top starter in Snell, A potential good starter in Mosgrove, a korean lotto ticket player
Dodgers get Price back from covid and signed a bunch of good relievers just need to resign turner and add a piece here or there to fill bench etc
NL East
Braves added Drew Smyly- a glorified reliever check his numbers in rotation they sucked, Charlie Morton whose nearing the end of his career and had a bad 2020 so hoping for a bounceback, back end of rotation arm and hopeful top
Lost Soroka for start of year and a question mark for next year due to nature of injury, Osuna their best protection bat for Freeman, havent upgraded lineup biggest weakness
Nationals-Added a deffensive liability who has been subpar last few years Schwarber and Bell whose on and off
Phillies and marlins basically nothing
So yes the Mets should be considered at this point a first place threat for East and top contender in NL if not MLB given the step back every team not named Dodgers, Padres, Mets have had NL Yankees, Whitesox AL
Balk
Why would I remove my comment? I stand by what I said. I’ve watched 162 game seasons for 38 years, to me this last year was anything but a championship or a season. Most didn’t even show up to play, along with a national league DH. Anyone who says this was a legitimate championship and season is only fooling themselves and taking away teams that truly had to fight through injuries and exhaustion to win out. Dodgers have choked every time in the series since ‘88 and I’m still waiting to see if they can do it. Like I said it’s my opinion.
coyoterazor
Keep telling yourself that. You guys finally sniff the playoffs and all of a sudden you are a dynasty? Give me a break. It’s fans like you that host a parade for a team advancing to the wild card round.
MrMet1979 2
Respect your opinion. Still a championship so you’ll be waiting all by yourself.
Balk
There’s no way it was a bigger task. Dh in national league, a lot of players sat out. Weaker teams in the playoffs, shortened season which gives pitchers a huge advantage due to less innings pitched before a World Series. Couldn’t even play against other divisions. Look, I’m happy baseball got played, it was awesome to see the way it unfolded, but to me a lot has to be proved over the course of a season with battling through injuries, fatigue etc. that’s what makes a champion in my book
coyoterazor
Price, Kershaw, Buehler, May, Gonsolin and Urias.
Balk
Finally sniff the playoffs? Haha, try three rings boy.
Balk
I’m sure millions are right next to me waiting for a full season to be played.
Prospectnvstr
MetsFan22: How many games have the Mets won this year? 0 is the correct answer (just like every other team). They don’t give out trophies for winning the off season. Have the Mets improved their team? It sure LOOKS like it, but they have to ACTUALLY DO it before you & the rest of their fanbase have anything to really crow about.
Not a clever name
For the first time in 30+ years, they only spent 7 billion plus to get it done, and with the help of an * they got the job done.
Geno55
Catching up……..the Padres just passed the Dodgers and Mets
Not a clever name
How many games did the Mariners win in 2001? 162 games puts a lot more ware on a team than 60, they get an *
Not a clever name
I agree 100%
rct
@whynot: that is *far* from the only real question about the Mets’ rotation. Coming from a Mets fan, let me break it down:
1 – deGrom: no questions.
2 – Carrasco: mostly no questions, though he will be 34 and 2019
3 – Stroman: missed all of 2020, will that affect him?
4 – Peterson: can he repeat his performance from 2020? Can he sustain that over a full season?
5 – Thor: how will he return form injury? who is the starter until he comes back?
rct
*in re: Carrasco, should say ‘2019 was rough for him’
802Ghost
LOL your comments are always so entertaining. Only 3 teams finished worse than the Mets in the NL. No one is chasing them.
lolzmets
Marty teach us about racism and fat shaming. We are all very impressed with how “woke” you are! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Have another sandwich McRibb!
bellybombs
Your another idiot Padre fan. Padres have won 13 post season games in their 52 year history. Dodgers won 13 last year.
bellybombs
Price, May, Urias, Gonsolin
MrMet1979 2
And that is the sound of the mic dropping.
Yankee Clipper
LOLdodgers: Don’t forget, it’s not like the Dodgers also came from nowhere this year or are ahead of schedule. They’ve been legitimate contenders for years now. They’ve just been able to close the deal in ‘20. Anyone who thinks it is a fluke is a joke. Let’s not forget that they could’ve very well been the champs if not for the Cheatstros also…..
old ranger
A collection of pitchers is not a team.
Ducky Buckin Fent
No @old ranger, tis not.
Helluva good start, though.
Loling @ you
@VegasSDfan funny you said the same last season. “The World Series goes through us” dodgers win series 3-0 beating the top 2 offenses in the majors, then beating the top ranked rays. You disappeared after that statement for good reason, will you do the same this year??
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Unfortunately, most teams can’t afford the Yankees way of spending right near the CBT threshold every year. For teams like San Diego, it’s the best way to get good in a hurry. That said, I agree with you. They really lucked on Tatis, but they’ve made a lot of shrewd moves and draft picks, too.
Loling @ you
@vegasSDfan man you must really be salty, you always have something to say about your daddy the dodgers. Padres fans make video parodies of “California love” while we polish’s our trophy. Just got enjoy La Jolla beach and pipe down oh wait you live in a nevada yikes
VegasSDfan
@Tatsumaki
The Dodgers won the World Series? Nobody watched it or cares!! Rofl.
When we win it, it will be a full season, with fans. Without an asterisk.
VegasSDfan
@Tatsumaki
Did you you know that the Dodgers have one of the worst rated stadiums in baseball?
SDSU has a nicer stadium, and it only cost a few million.
Living in LA or Nevada, easy choice, as LA is a dump. Dumpy city with a 99cent stadium.
Ducky Buckin Fent
@vegas –
Now, I’m peripherally excited for the Padres. They’re having a great off-season & it’s a blast to watch, man.
But I cannot disagree more with the “without an asterisk” deal. As someone who navigated his company through 2020 I have mad respect for everyone else who did the same.
Dodgers deserve extra credit for making it through, if anything.
Hudson6
I must agree with Ducky. The Dodgers won the World Series. They had the same chance as every other team. They came out on top. They are the best team in mlb until someone takes that title from them.
VinScullysSon
Vegas, 100% of the country missed the Padres in the World Series.
Pads Fans
Mets key bat is missing. He will be all season. Steroids again.
May was not a top 10 reliever last season. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&… Sort by ERA, FIP, WAR, K/9, Sierra. He is not there among the top relievers.
Lindor is not a top 5 player. Not even top ten. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and included 2019 and he ranked 26th. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&… You know who is a top 5 player and SS? Tatis Jr.
Lucchesi couldn’t make the Padres rotation in 2020 and you have him filling the #4 slot for the Mets. Says all we need to know about Mets rotation and lack of depth. Stroman is a #3 on any good team. Carrasco is a #4.
Pads Fans
Interesting “stat” from Eno Harris. More than 40% of MLB players had a season 25% better or 25% worse than their career averages in 2020. Almost half had outlier seasons including the last 2 NL MVPs. It was a weird season.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Wait.
@Pads fan.
That is really big. It kinda fits with what we saw, too. Do you have a link or something?
If you get this, merci.
lowtalker1
Perhaps but they lost a lot of core members. They still don’t even have a third baseman
MrMet1979 2
Stroman more like a #4. Carrasco is a #3 fringe 2. He’s had multiple years of 200Ks that’s a top of the rotation pitcher not a #4 starter. He replaces the production they lost with Wheeler going to Philly.
pepenas34
Rules were the same for every team, and more competitors with one more round to go in playoffs.
Brew’88
The Dodgers are legitimate champions of a 60 game season. Which isn’t a 162 game season.
MrMet1979 2
That’s true and you would’ve gladly accepted that championship if it was your squad
mannyl101
Hahaha you’re silly! It’s really called delusion!
jkurk_22
Lol, Mets aren’t even the best team in the NL East
TheTrotsky
Lol you’re in denial.
Brew’88
Lucchesi was at #9 on the Padres SP depth chart. For him they picked up a guy who on most teams would slot ar #2 or 3. On the Padres he’ll be # 5 in rotation.
Lurking
The nationals and Red Sox both would not have won their title with the 2020 postseason schedule. Your complaints are idiotic
Stay as sour as you want. You know there’s gonna be a huge parade in Los Angeles when we can. And you and Tatis and Machado and Hosmer and Preller will all be watching
lasershow45
You can’t blast someone for hypotheticals while pushing a massive hypothetical….well you can, you’ll just look the way you do right now
lasershow45
Duuudeee… Vegas is a s***hole. You can’t go after LA. You live in a city that’s on par with like….El Cajon.
Jeff Zanghi
Not sure I agree with that anymore. Theyve added Snell, Darvish and now Musgrove to their already solid group or young pitching. I’d say they’ve got about as solid a pitching staff as anyone. Maybe you could make a case for them needing another reliever or two but other than that. Theyve got 6 SPs that pretty much every team would want in their rotation and 3 incredibly promising minor league starters who are close to ML ready as well. Theyve really had one heck of an off-season so far
Lurking
Is it really hypothetical? Both Boston+Wash won riding 3 pitchers on short rest, and used the off days to make it work. They used their side days as days to pitch in the playoffs. The ONLY reason it worked was the excessive offdays
None of that is possible with zero off days in the first three rounds of the playoffs. That’s just basic common sense
DODGER JR
Help me out!!!!!! I forgot how many Championships have the Padres won? The Pads fans are sure acting like they are the Yankees all of a sudden. Let’s pump the brakes until the Pads win their first WS. They have dominated the offseason but games are won on the field.
DODGER JR
Really? Because I looked really close during the WS and.I never saw Tatis on the field one time. You can ROFL but the Dodgers will be wearing something on their ring finger that the Puds wish they had.
giantsphan12
@balk, IMO, shortened season or not, Dodgers won the WS last year, fair and square. Now that they broke thru, and figured out how to overcome their years of postseason mismanagement, they’ll probably win again this year. Just my opinion, as a Giants fan nonetheless.
alc47
You missed a pretty big one in Carrasco. @bencole
Bjoe
No one is worried about the Mets.
VonPurpleHayes
@Balk you mean the team that has been dominating the regular season the last 2 years? Yes. I could say that they would’ve won a full season.
VegasSDfan
@lasershowlamemame, El Cajon at any portion of the city is cleaner than LA.
Balk
Yeah yankee clipper, let’s not forget the Dodgers have won the division for many consecutive years and have yet to still win a World Series in a full 162 game season. I will give you the Astros Series, but you still don’t know the true outcome of that. Just like you won’t know the true outcome of 2020 due to it being a shortened season. Point made
Brew’88
Amazes me how many Dodger fans are commenting here in an article not about their team, going to great lengths to say how not worried they are. Heh heh.
Stevil
It’s weird anyone might think the Mets aren’t clearly in the driver’s seat. Trades involving a star middle-infielder and an elite arm guarantee success every time.
I myself have nothing to really look forward to this year. Well, nothing really exciting other than Jarred Kelenic debuting.
Appalachian_Outlaw
@MetsFan22, if by everyone you mean Pittsburgh and Arizona only, then yes. Until there are games, those are the teams chasing the Mets.
Ducky Buckin Fent
@bjoe –
Female reporters are.
So there’s that.
profhambone2
The LA Dodgers are legitimate champions and the #1 team going into this year. You have to take the crown from their heads. I know the crumbling Northeast wants to try and sell us that the Yanks and the Mets are the best but there are not enough drugs being sold on Wall Street to make someone believe that. I believe that San Diego is by far better than the Mets and that the Chicago White Sox are equal to or better than the Yanks.
But that is just the opinion from Las Vegas.
coyoterazor
The Brewers are legitimately the champion of nothing. Don’t be bitter because the Dodgers are the team that always shatters your playoff dreams.
coyoterazor
So what is a Brewers fan doing here?
Yankee Clipper
Balk, you are correct and nobody can argue your points. However, SD and 29 other teams had the same opportunity (including NYY) to win, but the Dodgers did. We will see this year though because LAD will be right back on top of the NL. It’s theirs to lose, imho.
Brew’88
@ coyote: “Brewer” is not connected to baseball or the team in Milwaukee.
jhomeslice
@padreforlife “Padres don’t have depth like Dodgers”
Padres were good in 2020, and have added 3 starters, one good and two very good. I mean, how much more depth could anyone hope for? Their 4-5 starters now should be best in baseball, maybe even easily. I can’t recall a team adding 3 good starting pitchers in one offseason, ever. Musgrove very under the radar but should be solid.
I think Padres are best team in MLB now on paper. Last year does not matter, the Padres not close to the same team now. If Clevinger comes back strong in 2022, they should be epic good next year as well. I don’t think any team in MLB is as likely to win at least one World Series in the next 3 years. There is so much parity in baseball that nothing a team does makes them a sure thing, but the Padres have the best shot of any team to win it all in the next 3 years at least once, my opinion.
Brew’88
@ coyote: I’m not a Brewers fan I’m a Giants fan, you know the only team that’s won 3 WS in the past decade? (and all were actually legitimate seasons). .Besides, good teams of the past (Giants, Dodgers, etc…) are nothing if they can’t compete in the present. And it’s beginning to look as if the Padres are better than the Giants by far, and equal or better than the Dodgers. We’ll see.
Brew’88
@jhomeslice: Even with Clevenger out this year and Lamet possibly limited, the Padres appear to have matched or exceeded the Dodgers (and all MLB teams for that matter) in SP depth. Giving up Lucchesi who sat at #9 on the SP depth chart doesn’t hurt them at all. They also plan to sign Profar adding another key sub to their lineup. They’re deep at C and all infield positions. They might need another back-up OF, but Profar, Kim and even Cronenworth are potential OF pieces. They have 7 of MLB Top 100 Prospects, even after all the trades using the farm.
I see nothing but depth on this team and baring injuries to stars they have to be in the top 3 or 4 teams in MLB.
BartoloHRball
I think dumping the trash ownership (Wilpons) was the Mets’ best off-season move in a decade or more. Adding Steve Cohen, the richest owner in the league and true fan….that was a huge upgrade. He has invested in analytics, scouting, and he is willing to spend smart money.
The Mets added McCann (2nd best catcher available), May (top 2-3 available reliever), Lindor (top 5 player in the game), Carrasco (3.42 career FIP and >> Rosario, McNeil >> Cano, McCann > Ramos, and hopefully Springer > Nimmo…but even if not, they improved 3 infield positions, and 4 if they platoon Guilloirme w. JD at 3B.
They also have the best pitcher in the game. They also have Syndergaard waiting in the wings. He may come back an ace or he may be a #3-#4….not bad for depth.
Ok…so are they the best team in the league. No. Best in the NL? Nope. They need to compete in the NL East and stay healthy. If they can add Springer and/or another RP…they should be able to battle w. the Braves. The Braves are a balanced team with a pretty good farm from what I recall, but will ownership pony up down the stretch if they need to….TBD. I know the Mets will *finally* be in a position to make those “win now” moves that quality teams can plan to make. The Nats are uninspiring outside of a few gifted players, but there are also those albatross contracts for Scherzer et al. The Phils are a dumpster fire. The Marlins are likely going to be scrappy. They have better pitching than most fans give them credit for having, but they would be thrilled to be within 5 games of .500.
At the end of the day, the Mets need to make the playoffs and then I’d put them up against most any team and they have a puncher’s chance.
Top 3-5 offense, a top 10 BP, and their starters….TBD. They could be 15th or they could be top 5. One game, winner take all….I’m betting on deGrom. Every. Single. Time.
BartoloHRball
Well said. SD is stocked for the next 3-5 years. FINALLY they have a club that will legit compete with LAD. It’ll be interesting to see how LAD does in the summer/fall this year because they usually have the NL West locked up by August, so if they have to compete down the stretch, they can’t rest guys and get them lined up for the playoffs.
Ya'll a bunch of salty crybabies
Things that losers say……….
Eatdust666
According to ESPN, Price, Urias and Gonsolin are 3, 4, 5 for them.
lasershow45
Nah. I lived out there for 20 years. I’d take LA any day. I will say that the College of Southern Nevada has a better stadium than the Dodgers though.
Hudson6
It kinda looks like they may have better depth now.
SDHotDawg
@VegasSD … The Padres had experienced starters they could have used, but they chose not to. From early September until the last game, that was the worst job of managing a pitching staff I’ve ever seen. Ever.
SDHotDawg
@bucketbrew … Yeah, we look good on paper. But Lamet’s arm is a huge question mark, and Paddack hasn’t learned to pitch in the big leagues yet. Those two guys go sideways, and it could be a long season. Especially if Tingler and Preller don’t take a crash course in managing a pitching staff.
nypadre66
Lucchesi essentially had the same stats as Musgrove prior to last year. And the Pads gave up 5 prospects.
Brew’88
Two SPs going in different directions though. Sure it’s conceivable that Lucchesi turns things around and regains his ability to locate his very pedestrian stuff like he could 2 years ago, but the Padres clearly see otherwise. It’s also possible that Musgrove’s improvement last season was an aberration and that he’ll return to where he was 2 years ago, but the Padres (and most predictive analyses) see his future upside as SP 2-3 level. We saw a lot of Lucchesi over the past few years and I don’t see him ever reaching that level. We’ll see. Hudson Head could be a nice ML OF but the other 3 prospects and Bednar are long-shots.
MetsFan22
I agree!
DarkSide830
…you might actually be losing it
Marty McRae
Joey Lucchesi, Hudson Head (#7), Omar Cruz (#17), David Bednar (#20), Drake Fellows (no professional games, age 22).
WarkMohlers
Solid return. Thanks for the info Marty!
Marty McRae
Whoops, Lucchesi has since gone to the Mets and the Pirates get the Mets #14 Endy Rodriguez!
Pirates full haul: Hudson Head (#7), Omar Cruz (#17), David Bednar (#20), Drake Fellows (no professional games, age 22), Endy Rodriguez (#14/Mets)
Pads Fans
Fellows was a 2019 draft pick.
BartoloHRball
Endy is young, but if he sticks at C, that is a quality lotto ticket player. I don’t know the SD prospects, but from what I read….if 2 of the 4 pan out to every day players, then I think it was a good trade for PIT. Musgrove has some nasty underlying pitching stats. He could be filthy for SD, which should make the NL West a really fun race.
whynot 2
What is wrong with you?
WarkMohlers
Hahaha. Yeah, everyone saw the Mets make a push for second or third in the division. They then said “Not on our watch! We can’t let a bad team improve enough to not challenge us in the playoffs.”
WarkMohlers
The Mets seem to have been brought in to make Lucchesi an acceptable part of the deal from the Pirates perspective. Solid move for all parties in my opinion, especially the Pirates. Seems like less of a return when compared to how Pirates fans valued Musgrove, but looks great to me.
Ducky Buckin Fent
@Mohlors –
Yeah.
Good trade all around.
analyzer87
Lol. They are involved
eli_b_wcl
It turns out you were correct! Unbelievable!
Ryan W
The Dodgers did this. The Mets are irrelevant and picking up Joey Lucchesi, who went back to the minors most of last season.
davidk1979
They’re in on the trade
8
You are better than the people running this website.
Brixton
Preller: What if we just get every starter on the market so no one else can have them
iverbure
I’m going to assume Lamet isn’t healthy and they believe he will need TJ.
Hudson6
You better hope he needs TJ.
iverbure
Why would I hope he needs TJ? I hope he doesn’t.
Padres458
Why? The Padres still needed a starter.
Luc 2
Idk man Id be scared as much as I think pitching is what wins championships getting Musgrove (overrated in my opinion) means someone is hurt. Maybe not and the Pads are going all in. Mets wont make the playoffs lol
YourDreamGM
I can get into the lamet conspiracy but regardless of his health I can see the padres making this trade. They won the sweepstakes for 4 out of the 5 top starters on trade market. Maybe the just felt, hey if this is all it takes to aquire him what the heck.
SDHotDawg
Lamet won’t last the year, and the Pads know it. He ended the season with arm issues and went through PRP treatment. He’s already had one TJ, so …
Loling @ you
Padres getting all the arms
8
The Padres are in the arms trade business.
baseballpun
Heard Oliver North is in talks to join the front office.
bhambrave
I heard it was Eric Holder.
8
Oliver North would get them the absolute best arms so that teams would have to forfeit because they would be to scared to play the Padres.
Loling @ you
Padres gave up head and Cruz what are light return. Gonna have to start calling the padres the fleecers
tiredolddude
SD traded with the Pirates They wrote the book on getting fleeced.
jdgoat
Literally chill, Padres
thebaseballfanatic
Jays fans:
Why are we still here
Just to to suffer
Nothing
You shouldn’t be upset they missed in this guy. He’s not that good. Jays should be aiming for Tanaka/Bauer in free agency. Or Sonny Gray in a trade.
iverbure
If the jays can avoid the land mines of Bauer, Springer and Realmuto this offseason they’re the big winners of the offseason. I mean if half the league makes the playoffs you should be able to make the playoffs with all homegrown drafted players and not even need free agents. If you can’t it’s because you’re gm isn’t very good. And if he can’t draft players why trust him to sign expensive free agents to multiple year contracts.
Nothing
This team has decent crop of homegrown talent, but it needs to be supplemented. The rotation needs at least one high-end more arm to go with Ryu, and a good bat for two, because Bo is the only bat I truly have full confidence in.
Marty McRae
Jays arent getting anyone big in FA, stop thinking they are, no one wants to play in Canda.
Nothing
The fact you can’t even spell the name of the country shows how ignorant you are to Canada. You probably think we all live in igloos, eat maple syrup for dinner and say “eh!”. That’s not Canada.
filthyrich
Guy needs to watch some more Trailer Park Boys eh
Luc 2
LMAO yur so funny. Great joke, that made me laugh thxs man
bluejays92
Cut my life into pieces…
Eat em Up
You suffer, but why
its_happening
What cheervladdy said.
DarkSide830
bro chill Preller
Dalton1017
this is going to cost them
jawinks
Just skip the 162 for safety and have Dodgers/Padres NLCS
jdgoat
Let’s just relegate the AL and let that be the World Series. The games best offense against the games best rotation.
DarkSide830
if im honest I dont know if there is one team in the AL that you can say for sure will be a top 4 team in baseball next year. CHW maybe?
Marty McRae
Oakland will for sure win 100 games if healthy. That rotation+defense….
jawinks
Astros, A’s, White Sox, Yankees
DoritosLocosTaco
lol
lolzmets
Marty why are you talking about baseball? You should be teaching all of us who weren’t raised right about asian racism! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Marty McWhale been getting extra cheese on his whopper!
passed_balls
Shut up, you clown.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
@jawinks, Don’t really buy the Astros and A’s. A’s lost their closer and shortstop and Chapman just had hip surgery, so it’s fair to question whether he comes back in full strength.
Astros are losing Springer and may well lose Brantley, plus Verlander is out for the year.
If the Jays finally sign a truly big name, like Springer, Bauer, or JTR, they can catapult themselves into the conversation. The Rays, IMO, are on the cusp of it after trading Snell and losing Morton, but they have such a deep farm system and always seem to find a way to compete. I’d say White Sox and Yankees would have a shot to beat LA or SD, but it’d be maybe 30% with the teams as currently constructed.
GoLandCrabs
NLDS assuming one of those teams has the best record in the NL
dan55
What the hell? Preller has officially gone mad. Does he even realize that we don’t need another starter? This is completely unexpected. I really hope that this doesn’t mean Lamet will get TJS soon.
RBI
There is no such thing as too much pitching
Eatdust666
True
iml12
Lamet has to be a concern or they are rolling out a 7 man rotation
libertyfighter
Lamet will be named the closer!
DarkSide830
i have a feeling that may very well be it. maybe not need yet but they expect it.
Blah blah blah
dont bother commenting anymore if your takes are this useless
DarkSide830
oh please. Lamet had TJ not that long ago and he’s running into elbow issues again. why is it shocking? Im assuming they don’t want to have him get it until they are sure he needs it, but that they fear he may need it anyway in the end.
maximumvelocity
To compete, you actually need seven guys in the system, due to injury concerns. The Astros had seven guys who could start. God forbid if the two long pitchers at the begging of the season aren’t AAAA bums like most teams have.
dan55
I agree that you need a lot of pitchers to be able to compete, but I think that the Padres have too many pitchers. Next year, we will have Snell, Darvish, Lamet, Musgrove, Paddack, Morejon, Lucchesi, Morejon, Gore, Baez, and Weathers all competing for a rotation spot. 2022 will add Clevinger to that mix. It just seems like the trade is a little overkill
AndyMeyer
I don’t think so at all. Quality move. Musgrove will be super solid at the back end of the rotation. Gives their young arms a chance to throw innings in the minors since there wasn’t a minors season last year
You can never have enough pitching
Hudson6
Lucchesi is gone. He was just traded for Musgrove. So you have a starting 5 of:
1. Snell
2. Darvish
3. Lamet
4. Musgrove
5. Paddack
6. Morejon
7. Weathers
8. Gore
5 regular starters and 3 injury replacement starters. I think they should still pick up a league minimum starter or 2.
Injuries happen every year. I would not be at all surprised if all 3 of Morejon, Weathers and Gore all get some time in the rotation. If the Padres are trying to win the World Series it would be nice to not have to count on any of those 3.
Pads Fans
Lucchesi was included in the trade. He is a Met now.
The key word is competing. No reason Baez and Weathers cannot continue to come out of the pen or go back to AAA.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
@dan55, not a Padres fan, but that was my first thought, too. They’ve made themselves a lot better this offseason, but they do have other holes to fill.
SDHotDawg
There’s a huge reason, at least for Weathers, why they can’t and shouldn’t come out of the bullpen. He’s not ready for ML baseball. Neither is Gore. I’d give Baez the shot, but only because he has a lot more development.
iml12
You rarely see this type of quality 1-7. All these guys need to pitch every 5th day.
Lurking
Quality and/or track record is suspect at and below #4
But whatever helps y’all sleep
You traded for Ross Stripling, and gave up Ross Stripling and 4 additional prospects
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
LOLPadresFans — What nice fingers you have…the more to troll us with.
Lurking
Truth hurts buddy
You traded for Ross Stripling and gave up Ross Stripling and 4 additional prospects. What a win
You’re cheering because your gm did something. And you’re still a wild card team. The same you were in October
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
Yeah, bruh. Truph hurts real bad. Bruh.
Old User Name
Preller taking the old adage “You can never have enough pitching” very seriously.
Ducky Buckin Fent
I’m impressed by it @Joe.
Preller is working it like a boss. Great to see. Good for baseball.
Good for the Padres fans, too.
No more Chargers no more Clippers. Those folks deserve something good in sports.
Yankee Clipper
Pads fans (like DAN55, [Masahiro]Tasumaki, etc) thinking winning the offseason equals winning the WS. Then again, I guess for a Pad it might as well be. Dan, when do you think the last remaining professional team will run away from you?
See we can all do this!
Ducky Buckin Fent
Ouch @Clipper!
I’m almost ashamed to have laughed at that. But laugh I did.
Mercy. Still am…”run away from you”.
Good heavens.
Brought tears to my eyes, man.
These guys get into it with fast talking New Yorkers & it spirals down for them quickly.
dan55
Yankee Clipper – Don’t you dare put me in the same sentence as Tatsumaki. He is a Dodgers troll who only makes dumb comments. I bring insightful analysis to these comment pages.
The Padres added two legit aces, a solid middle of the rotation pitcher, a top infield prospect from Korea, and a really good backup catcher to a team that finished second in the NL last year. They are definitely a good team.
Also, Padres are staying in San Diego. They will never leave. The Clippers left because of Donald Sterling, the worst owner in sports history. They have sucked forever. I am happy they left. The Chargers left because Spanos is a horrible owner. I still root for them and hope they come back when Spanos sells the team. The Padres have a good owner, so they will never leave.
dan55
Yankee Clipper –
Have fun with your New York Yankees finishing third this year to the cheapskates in Tampa and the Buffalo Blue Jays. Cashman is a broken GM who can’t figure out how to build a rotation. They won’t be playing in the World Series anytime soon.
Pads Fans
Padres were 2nd best record in 2020 and they just got substantially better in terms of starting pitching and better in position players. Not sure what you are looking at if you don’t think that the Padres are a playoff team.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah so your insightful comments resonated with the Yankees articles. Shut it. Start it and you get what you earned with all your garbage too. You guys are hilarious when busting balls of everyone else, but man do you cry like whiny little babies when it circles back. Plus your both in California and your team will be in LA soon enough so what’s the difference?
Ducky Buckin Fent
You guys are shouting into the abyss.
That was a mic drop. He gone.
Yankee Clipper
Lol
Lurking
“ The Padres added two legit aces”
No they didn’t. Darvish was a top 5 ugliest contract in baseball FIVE MONTHS AGO. Now he’s a legitimate ace!?
Snell hasn’t been an ace in 2 years. Keep smoking that pipe man.
SDHotDawg
If we don’t win the WS, we’ll just commission Howard Zinn and the NYT to rewrite the history. Problem solved!
DrDan75
I suspect that Preller pulled the trigger on this because a) Musgrove is a good pitcher on a struggling team, and b) because the price was right. Musgrove is also from El Cajon, so he’s probably over the moon about being traded back home to one of the best teams in baseball.
Loling @ you
I get padres excitement but one of the best teams in baseball? The same homers saying dodgers ring is an asterisks are the same guy puffing there chest to padres first postseason in 14 years and it came in the same season. Lol
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
The Padres were easily a top-five team last year. I don’t think that’s too debatable. And they have vastly improved. So, if they were one of the best teams last year I think they would qualify for one of the best teams this year. I know you are just trolling, tat, but man does it get annoying.
Pads Fans
Padres were 2nd best team in the NL in 2020. They got better this offseason.
Brew’88
Im a Giants fan but will admit that every preseason power ranking have seen have Padres at 2 or 1. They’ve certainly improved over this off season more than any other team.
Lurking
Oh please. You’re the biggest Padre bandwagoner on this message board. Nothing flipped you
dvmin98
Wait, didn’t SD have the 2nd best record in the NL last year??? They’ve only gotten better, soooooo, they are likely one of the best teams in baseball
Luc 2
Power rankings mean BS until 1/4 way to the season. Look at all the times the Mets were good on paper and did jack. Even my Nats in 2018.
coyoterazor
No they were not. The Braves were clearly a better team. They themselves got stronger and the Dodgers are still the tops in the NL. You were the third best team. They are much better but the Dodgers are not done yet. Never sleep on the Dodgers. That said, I would put the Dodgers, Padres and Braves up against any team in baseball. The NL is a powerhouse with those 3 teams and I only see the Whitesox as a threat to them.
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
LOL– Bruh. Bruh. Dodgers, bruh. Bruh. Pads suck, bruh. Right, bruh? Hive five, bruh.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
@Tatsumaki, I’m neither a Padres or Dodgers fan. I believe both that the Dodgers’ championship is legit and needs no asterisk and that the Padres have made themselves so much better this offseason that it’s not unreasonable to think the Dodgers could actually finish 2nd in that division…despite winning 100+ games, especially if we go back to a normal schedule and playing other divisions.
I’m not sold on Machado’s 2020. I am, however, sold on that rotation, their farm system, and especially Tatis, Jr. They may have shortened their window a little with all the trades they’ve made, but they’ve opened it as wide as it can go. 2021 ought to be a really fun race to watch in the NL West.
BartoloHRball
You *never* can have too much pitching. Even if they pull at TB Rays and trade from their starters and then just plug in the next beast 22-24 yr old flamethrower that they stretch out from the pen. I’d drool over their farm system bc they kept their top 4-5 prospects and still landed Snell et al. Impressive. They just need to hope that Meyers doesn’t turn back into a pumpkin and Hosmer can replicate his 2020 season. It’s still is not clear if Hosmer is a consistent .850 OPS guy…or a <.750 guy playing at a premium bat position where .800+ is expected.
SDHotDawg
We ABSOLUTELY need another starter.
Vizionaire
what are you doing, angels?
i like al conin
Agree, but this is what happens when you have a superior farm system.
Vizionaire
true.
SoCalADRL
It’s not like the angels farm is terrible. There is no reason to hold onto two outfield prospects when you’ve committed a half billion to two players and you’re trying to win now. Castillo, German, somebody!
i like al conin
Agree. Either the Angels aren’t offering them or the market is demanding more. The Angels don’t have the depth in numbers right now.
Padresfan2313
Angels farm system probably better than Padres now that we’ve emptied about half of it to get Snell, Darvish and Musgrove
Brew’88
Pads have only lost 1 of their top 10 prospects this off season. Preller is brilliant.
Deleted_User
Patiño, Wilcox and Head were all top 10 Padres prospects going into this offseason…
Lurking
Don’t use facts. Cmon now
James Midway
Jerry DiPotto destroyed the Angels farm. He took a top 10 farm system and transformed it into the worst in the Majors. They have been trying to rebuild from that and have made progress, but not there yet.
coyoterazor
The Angels are in a tough spot. They should have rebuilt a few years ago. As a result, the best player in baseball will waste his prime years.
Redstitch108* 2
Perry Minasian is really losing a lot of the fans goodwill right now. I for one am very disappointed and losing patience by the fact that so many good arms (Snell, Musgrove, Darvish, etc.) are now off the board and no deal or signing for a frontline started has been made. The fact remains, the Halos cannot contend without upgrades to the rotation. DO SOMETHING PERRY!!! Pretty soon the honeymoon will be over and the fans will turn on you.
slider32
You have to have a good farm system to make a trade! Perry is handcuffed!
SoCalADRL
Jo Adell is a top 10 prospect and Reid Detmers and Marsh are both consensus top 100 prospects. He’s not exactly handcuffed, he just doesn’t have what Preller has.
Angels & NL West
I want the Angels to acquire pitching as do Angels fans everywhere. I just don’t want Perry/Arte to make a multi year mistake by signing Bauer to a premium contract coming off a career year.
I would prefer two from the following, now dwindling, list: Tanaka, Odorizzi, Castillo, Sonny Gray, Jon Gray or Freeman. The trade options will cost the Angels some players, but are generally cheaper and controllable. If they go the FA route, I would like to see one year contracts, if possible.
Loling @ you
Sadly your not gonna get any of those with that barren farm lol. Freeman? Really? No way he doesn’t retire a brave and angels don’t have enough for Castillo
Angels & NL West
Tat, two of the SP listed are FA requiring no trade from the barren farm you reference.
Kyle Freeland; not Freddie Freeman.
lwaba
What not the Blue Jays?? But their in on everyone.
angelsfan1522
Angels fans are going to continue to slip into a deeper depression from seeing every starter to further south
Philliesfan4life
maybe they can get Sonny Gray
Redstitch108* 2
Exactly. This is what Perry should do. That will make us all have a sigh of relief. Go get Gray Perry! Make it happen.
vincent k. mcmahon
Wow it’s like the wrestling Ppv All In. Except the Padres are All In.
passed_balls
I think it’s amazing how much work the Padres are putting into the off-season when it’s likely they’ll probably not even get a WC. Lol
rxbrgr
I appreciate the Padres for actually trying this offseason. Less than 20% of the league seems to be able to say that at this point.
DarkSide830
you dont need to trade for three SP to be “trying”
Elvisismyhomeboy
At this point the Padres will never have anyone on the bump who isn’t deadly
Yankee Clipper
Mets have been saying that for years yet it seems they rarely have anyone in the bump who is, except DeGrom
DarkSide830
“potentially including” wow, brilliant reporting
tom brunanskys black sock
Shut up dude
DarkSide830
what’s the point of naming a prospect if you have no clue if he’s one of them in the trade? its useless speculation.
lolzmets
There’s the other “woke” warrior! Are the Padres racist for trading for a white guy? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! There’s so much wokeness tonight! Tell us about Puig again, that was a hoot and a holler!
Blah blah blah
reading comprehension is not your strong suit i suppose
DarkSide830
“the Pirates will recieve a “large package of prospects” POTENTIALLY including outfielder Hudson Head.” It says potentially in the darn sentence.
Oddvark
It’s just a CYA word, like “allegedly”.
lolzmets
E before I dingleberry. You know they give you time to edit when you type something moronic. Or in your case extra moronic.
Blah blah blah
That return is way more than they gave up for Darvish LOL
Brixton
its not even posted yet
DarkSide830
i think he means Head alone is better then the Darvish package.
VegasSDfan
Why are you discussing head and package in the same sentence?
Gwynning
If you aren’t in Vegas then I’m guessing El Cajon Boulevard.
i like al conin
Darvish didn’t have a lot of surplus value at $20 mil/year.
dvmin98
Musgrove making $4.4 million…Darvish $13 million
PhilliesRBad
@Blah blah blah
You picked the perfect name for your profile. Just a bunch of bs.
petersdylan36
Who knows how the season plays out, but as a long suffering Padres fan, this is insane! Last year they lacked starting pitching depth. Doesn’t seem to be an issue for the upcoming year.
The thing that upsets me the most is I’m moving to Charlotte NC next week and I won’t get to see the Padres kick butt at Petco. I’ll be rooting from 2400 miles away
VegasSDfan
Its only 2385 miles between SD and Charlotte unless you take the long way!!
jordanjee
No way Gavin is letting fans into the stadiums this season.
trout27
Get MLB SEASON TICKET, you will get every game. I live in Wisconsin, but I get all Angels games. It is well worth the money.
Longtimecoming
I have it just for Pads games (ex San Diegan) but you don’t appreciate those 7:05 starts are 9:05 and 10:05 on the east coast. Just because they are broadcast doesn’t mean it works out to watch that late for some of us day time workers.
8
But I thought the Pirates were going for it all this year. Absolutely shocked.
3Rivers
‘going for it all’? Huh?
Ryan W
It’s sarcastic
tiredolddude
No. We’re aiming for a WC run in ‘26
Jimbobroy
Is Nutting selling the team before then?
YourDreamGM
Going for number one pick
Deleted_User
Why wouldn’t they?
Halos2002
Padres are doing what the Angels should be doing
i like al conin
How would the Angels pull all this off? The Padres have a vastly superior farm system.
Halos2002
You have to just push all the chips to the center of the table and go all in for someone. Some of these trades for pitchers haven’t been too overwhelming prospect wise.
i like al conin
You do? Seems that’s what they did for years and it didn’t work too well. They’ve had a terrible farm system for years and now it’s decent.
Halos2002
You just let Rendon and Trout play .500 baseball during the prime of their careers without going all in? If they just want to rebuild farm they are better off trading both of those guys.
Rking
That’s right. Crazy they haven’t put any prospect on the table to get Trout and Rendon a playoff chance. Make the best deal possible but do something to improve that staff. It would be good for baseball
YourDreamGM
They are building their farm up. Then when trout and rendon are declining they will make their move.
HawkCharger
AJ Preller’s ears just perked up.
leftykoufax
Cant have enough live arms as long as it doesn’t clear the farm, moo.
tom brunanskys black sock
Never thought they’d give Head
Edelapena08
lol
Redsoxx_62
Slow down AJ, the rest of the league needs some starting pitchers too lol
Nothing
Honestly I’m happy the Padres did this. Was worried he’d end up on the Jays. He’s a low end target that Shatkins would make a move for, and now they can’t.
its_happening
Yes. The only issue with this deal is few expected the Padres to make this move. Personally I don’t think this trade was necessary for them. I was hoping Musgrove would go to Anaheim. The same competitors for Bauer and Tanaka remain.
mlb1225
Wow, if the Pirates are getting a large group of prospects headlined by Head, I’ll take it.
mlbnyyfan
Who’s Hudson Head. Let me guess the Pirates wanted Frazier from Yankees once again they moved on too a lesser package. It’s the Cole trade all over again. Mets fans should worry about the Braves before they concern themselves with the Dodgers or Padres.
mlb1225
Hudson head is their 3rd round pick who’s one of their top 5 prospects. This is far from the Cole trade. They got back a really good package for Musgrove,.
Deleted_User
Would have gone higher than the third round but teams didn’t think he’d sign
mlb1225
Endy Rodriguez is a big get for the Pirates. He’s a plus defender behind the dish and can hit really well.
Hudson6
Do the Pirates have a way to fix Head’s NASTY arm-bar? Otherwise he will never be able to hit pitches above his waist.
3Rivers
Heck yeah mlb1225
its_happening
This is a solid return for Musgrove.
smuzqwpdmx
The Pirates certainly got a great haul for a pitcher who’s had one full healthy season in his career, which wasn’t even that good a season.
kylegocougs
Clearly, the Padres worry about managing innings and pitchers’ health next year after the shortened season. If they’re right they’ll look brilliant.
I bet nobody hits 200 innings next season.
dan55
As a Padres fan, I am glad that we are trying to win, but I think this deal is too much. We already have enough starting pitchers, and this is overload. Unless we are planning on having a 6 man rotation, which is not a bad idea considering that most pitchers haven’t built upon arm strength due to the shortened season last year, I don’t get this. Plus, we will have rotation problems in 2022 when Clevinger comes back. I loved the Snell and Darvish trades, but this is too much.
I really hope we don’t give up any good prospects for Musgrove.
Deleted_User
Depends what they give up. Baseball Trade Values says Joe Musgrove is a $36.2m surplus value. By comparison, C. J. Abrams is a 68.3 and Hudson Head is a 6.3
dan55
I wouldn’t be upset with trading Head, but I don’t get why we are going for Musgrove. He is a solid pitcher, but not a great one and I would have preferred the Padres to trade Head for a closer instead of a starter.
dan55
Now that they have announced we are trading Head and Cruz, I am not so mad about losing them. However, I still believe we could have sent this trade package to another team for a closer. That would have been more beneficial to the Padres than bringing in Musgrove.
trout27
There are still closers on the FA market. Colome, Meloncon, Rosenthal, Hand, Yates, all can close. Just sign one.
padreforlife
Enough starting pitchers lol
bobtillman
Oh ya, Mike Clevinger as your 6th starter…..what a headache!!!!!!
DrDan75
I think AJ is still looking to swing a deal for a high quality reliever, either through trade or FA. Maybe he plans on moving one of those starters.
beersy
The crazy thing about all these moves is the Padres still have the prospect capital to get a guy like Hader and put a bow on this team! I would be happy with Rosenthal though, I would like them to have some guys to fill in the holes in a couple of seasons.
Yankee Clipper
I also hope you’re glad as a Padres fan they’re going to move. Because they will, Dan. Your broke down future team will be rebuilding from another city – it’s a darn shame. I hear SD has just the right amount of….. empty stadiums.
Ryan W
Who hurt you, @Yankee Clipper?
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Nice! The Pirates are getting Head.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Nevermind, they updated the article. The only guy to help them in 2021 was traded to the Mets.
Deleted_User
How many starting pitchers do you want to trade for?
A. J. Preller: Yes
Johnhara21
Lamet seems to be a concern to being talked about…Glad to see them bringing in a boy from El Cajon who always has a grip of local fans in SD when he pitched!
BSHH
The Padres have impressed me very much this off-season, but unless they are giving up a bunch of lesser prospects, I don’t get this trade. Musgrove has always produced nice FIP numbers, but had a sub 4.00-ERA only during last year’s shortened campaign. He is also under control for only two years and rather unlikely to yield a compensation pick afterwards. While it is a solid acquisition to an already loaded pitching staff, the prospect cost better be moderate.
Gruß,
BSHH
YourDreamGM
Don’t worry about a pirates pitchers era. There defense is so bad your pretty much have to watch their pitchers or use individual measurements.
Padresfan2313
All this is telling me is that Gore, Morejon, and Weathers aren’t ready yet
Deleted_User
Morejon looked pretty ready but agree on Gore and Weathers
DarkSide830
i mean, why rush them if you don’t need to?
Padresfan2313
Well the thing is that they will be blocked up next year too because Clevinger will return from Tommy John
DarkSide830
then you turn and trade away one of the vets.
lolzmets
Do ya?
YourDreamGM
Injuries likely will happen. Better to have rookies to fill in as 5th starters then depend on them from the get go to be starters.
lolzmets
It’s very feminine the way you guys start sentences with “I mean…’ I’ve only ever heard young girls say that.
Padresfan2313
Though a six man rotation might make sense because of Snell, Lamet, and Paddack’s history of short starts
DarkSide830
I think Snell was more a factor of TB’s pen.
Pads Fans
Neither Paddack nor Lamet have a history of short starts. Paddack 5.24 IP per start. Lamet 5.5 IP per start. Both above league average. Snell on the other hand has thrown just 4.62 IP per start the past 2 seasons.
A 6 man rotation is possible because all pitchers are coming off short seasons and no team is going to want to extend them to more than double their 2020 IP.
DrDan75
That’s one of the big advantages for a prospect of playing in an organization with an already strong pitching staff. If Gore and Weathers had been playing in the Pirates’ farm system, they’d probably have already been rushed to the majors, with potentially disastrous results.
Check out the vast potential and subsequent disappointing major league career of David Clyde. Clyde was supposed to be the next Sandy Koufax but wound up with a career ending injury at age 26 because he was rushed to the majors.
filthyrich
Verlander and Felix were brought up to non-contenders very young. One example doesn’t make a case. Nor does my two. No set blueprint exists, what works for some, does harm for others!
420ambassador
preller going after all these starters is something he should have done 2 years ago. the rotation is nice now but the bullpen is suspect still and the bench is practically non existent. each of those areas will need to be addressed if this team wants to be perennial playoff contenders
Brixton
He literally added Kim and Caratini to the bench already, bullpen doesnt really look bad either
420ambassador
kim might be a starter depending on pham and the DH. caratini will only play when he catches for darvish so that doesn’t really help. aside from o’grady, mateo and maybe ona available, that’s a terrible bench if you’re looking to match depth with LA
Padresfan2313
I know depth is nice, but you only get 9 players on the field. Upgrading at positions that will actually contribute is much more important.
Pads Fans
Padres added Kim, O’Grady, Caratini, and still have Mateo, Ona, and Campusano.as additional bench depth.
Caratini played in 44 games in 2020 and 95 games in 2019. He is obviously more than Darvish’s caddy.
Preller has said the team is still open to resigning Profar and have been mentioned as in on other FA position players as well.
Simodine
Fangraphs just ranked the padres pen as 3rd best in baseball.
Dunk Dunkington
Let’s also add, now they have the luxury of not rushing Gore and could give the Padres a big push in the bullpen late season kind of how the Rays used Davis Price.
Deleted_User
Nooooo, no Gore out of the pen!
420ambassador
stammen still exists in this organization so that estimate is meaningless
LordD99
Great to see a team trying to win. Most teams are worried about profits or the $ spent per win or clutching unproven prospects. What’s worse, fans have accepted this lie.
padreforlife
Another postseason misfit like Zach Davies
DarkSide830
the guy hasnt gotten one start in the postseason
Marty McRae
Preller make it rain!!!!
lowtalker1
Five for one
JakeSnake19
Trade that needed to be done. Glad they got a lot of prospects, and I’m curious to see who they got.
bobtillman
Ya but the Red Sox are going to sign Matt Moore!!!
So THERE!!!!!
padreforlife
Another soft toss guy for Dodgers to use as batting practice
ocjthhalos
What- they gonna run an 8 man rotation or something? Good depth move
Lurking
5 guys including Lucchesi and Head!? Hahahah bleed that farm Preller
beersy
Bleed the farm system of guys who are blocked at the Major League level, I’ll take these kind of deals any day of the week and twice on Mondays apparently.
Moneyballer
His minor league affiliates may set records for losses across the board!
DrDan75
Head is only 18 years old. Preller will go out and sign an international prospect or two to replace him.
Ryan W
Would you consider lucchesi a farm hand? He was demoted for not performing after being in the show for 3 years.
GoDads
Not even a flesh wound to our farm. Still the most Top 100 prospects in baseball. You must be a dodger fan though. Insecurity rearing it’s head again lol
Lurking
Dude you got a #4/#5 for a #4/5 and FOUR additional prospects
Head is a big loss alone. Keep drinking the cool aid and pretend you’re not giving up talent in these deals. But know that Preller has overpaid in every trade he’s made in the last 2 years, probably longer
mlb1225
While the Padres’ farm system didn’t take a huge hit, they did have to give up a few notable pieces. And Musgrove is far from a #4/#5 caliber starter. He’s easily a high-end #3 if he gets even an average defense behind him.
Jeberdoo
Geez. I’m still waiting for an intelligent comment from you. Literally have a troll name. Do you even have any intelligent input or are you just here to be an ass? Cause I have to say I’m glad you aren’t a Padre fan. That could get embarrassing. So who is your team genius?
Lurking
I couldn’t care less if I please you
Musgrove is a 4 on good teams. You act like you just got Castillo from the reds
Luchessi was a solid #4 in 18+19. You’re writing him with less than 6 innings in 2020!
You gave up 4 additional guys, including 1 very highly ranked guy. It’s no guarantee Musgrove is better than Lichessi in 2021. For the hope one 4 era is lower than the other 4 era. Enjoy
Jeberdoo
Luchessi got sent back down to the minors for most of last year. And could BARELY hang in to a 4 era the year before. Clearly you don’t watch the pitchers but just look at stat sheets. Musgrove, on the other hand, has had a couple years to figure things out and comes in with a much bigger pitch mix. Neither will be an ace but you are delusional to think that luchessi is close to Musgrove at this point. Try to watch baseball instead of stat sheets.
DarkSide830
not a big Head fan, but seems like a solid get. This is shaping up to be a nice trade for both sides.
Moneyballer
Oh stop, you love head and we all know it!
DarkSide830
shhhhh dont tell anyone
ASapsFables
OK White Sox, your move. This offseason seems like a virtual chess match between the two most exciting young teams in MLB. Fortunately they play in different leagues and may not have to face each other until the World Series which is becoming more realistic with each acquisition.
bush1
Just as long as the White Sox don’t trade directly again with the Pads. Didn’t work out too well last time…
ASapsFables
Ouch! The White Sox do owe the Padres a beating in the World Series for that one!
To add insult to injury, San Diego also beat out the White Sox and Braves for Mike Clevenger at last season’s August 31st trade deadline. A healthy Clevenger might have resulted in a different outcome when the White Sox lost a tough 3-game ALWC series to the A’s but he injured himself shortly after the deal and wound up having TJ surgery in November.
The White Sox had a bit more success in trading with the Padres back in 2009 when Kenny Williams was finally able to pry Jake Peavy away at the July 31st trade deadline. Peavy had a no-trade clause and refused a similar deal to the White Sox two months earlier before having a change of heart when he was on the disabled list. Peavy pitched decently for the ChiSox when he returned from the DL later in August but it never resulted in a postseason appearance for a team that was ‘mired in mediocrity’ between their thrilling 2008 ‘Blackout Game’ versus the Twins and their next playoff season which was last year’s abbreviated one. The Padres were even more ‘mediocre’ than the White Sox with a postseason drought that lasted from 2006 until this past season. All this figures to change dramatically in the next few years at least!
NBE
Padres are amazing. AJ Preller is the best GM.
Moneyballer
I think he overthought this one and gave up too much.
DarkSide830
i dunno. Head is the only real prospect of note here. otherwise its fringe 40 guys and lottery picks.
lolzmets
“Dunno” is definitely not a word.
Jeberdoo
Not me. Not huge prospects in the grand scope. And I like Musgrove. Whether back end rotation or long arm…I think he’s gonna be a great piece for the Padres moving forward.
DrDan75
LOL… last year at this time everybody wanted a piece of his hide. It’s like Tommy Lasorda used to say, if you listen to the fans too much it won’t be long before you’re right up there in the stands with them.
yanks4life
It will be fun when they don’t win and in 2 years they are trading all these guys away cause they claim they can’t afford them
Marty McRae
Joey Lucchesi, Hudson Head (#7), Omar Cruz (#17), David Bednar (#20), Drake Fellows (no professional games, age 22).
Deleted_User
If that’s it then great trade
beersy
Great trade indeed. Only one guy from the back of the top 10 and other guys who are now blocked. What an off season for Preller & Co.!
Simodine
Lucchesi had no spot on the team anymore. Bednar was a dfa candidate. Now room on the 40 for another player. Padres will make another move.
Gwynning
@Simodine- You nailed it. Upgraded a starter in the meantime. Profar soon?
lolzmets
Marty, is widespread asian racism bad? Teach us since, you know, you were “raised right”. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
beersy
As a Padre fan, Musgrove rounding out the rotation is great. It will be interest who else, if in fact Head is in the deal, is going to Pittsburgh. With the Padres recently reported interest in Tanaka, I wonder if this is a, “we can have Tanaka for $15M or Musgrove and Rosenthal for the same price”, kind of thing?
The Padres still need a back end of the bullpen kind of arm and if they can now get Rosenthal inked because of Musgrove’s relatively low salary, this is a fantastic move!
DarkSide830
Lucchesi is a good pickup for PIT. maybe not a superstar but they give him a shot to start and perhaps it works out well.
DrDan75
I read that Luchessi went to the Mets.
jdgoat
They should use their starting pitching prospects to try and blow away the Brewers to get Yelich. There’s not going to be many holes for them to fill in the rotation for a while.
jdgoat
Or try and get Ramirez from Cleveland.
DrDan75
Haha, that would make for a fun season. Yelich and Machado hate each other.
123redsox
Absolutely incredible what san Diego has done without giving up gore
Deleted_User
No one they acquired was the type of player who nets a MacKenzie Gore in trade
PinstripedPride
Dammit, Padres
Ducky Buckin Fent
Pretty much, @PinstripedPride –
I was just thinking about a deal with the Pirates for Musgrove & Rodriguez.
Alas.
Jordan 5
Why is anyone even bringing up the Mets? The Mets are the Mets and until they can find a way to get out of their own division Dont act they are winning the World Series now.
Not Xabial
Because it’s a three team trade. Book it!
bush1
Because the Mets are part of the deal? Seems like a fair reason to bring them up to me, in article about about that deal.
thebaseballfanatic
The Pirates welcome… the new face of the franchise… Joey Lucchesi.
Brixton
He’ll be traded by the close of business
DarkSide830
genius!
Monkey’s Uncle
Sorry to see Musgrove go but so far the return seems to be pretty good. Musgrove is solid but he’s no ace, getting 5 decent prospects for him is good work
BobSacamano
Got to love the Drake.
Moneyballer
Hate the drake.
Moneyballer
Legit question, Is Joe Musgrove that much of an upgrade over Joey Luchessi? I’m not too familiar with what happened to Luchessi in 2020, I’m assuming he got injured?
lowtalker1
Don’t know. Luchessi would be a stud if no one got on base. He completely changes his windup with a runner on second and complete spazes out. When runners get on base he turns into the worst pitcher in the league
CNichols
The other thing with Luchessi is that he is for the most part a two-pitch pitcher because he rarely uses his cutter. He primarily throws a below average FB sits about 90mph and some offspeed pitch that he calls a “churve” which is his best pitch.
There was some concern last year that people were catching on to him (kind of similar to how Chris Paddack was getting exposed as a 2-pitch pitcher, like you really do not want Luchessi to see the lineup 3x) but I think the release point on his “churve” is also different than his FB release point, so in addition to the runners on base issue, he also might have a tipping pitches issue.
Regardless, he has some things he needs to work through, whereas Musgrove is much more polished.
iml12
This seems like the exact same blueprint as cubs/hoyer. If luchessi outperforms Musgrove it’s a slam dunk.
iml12
Never mind Luchessi to Mets
CheeseHeadPadre
This is my exact question. The stats would say no. The fact he has more than two pitches is useful. Perhaps they see Musgrove being useful out of the pen in playoff games where Luchessi would be unusable in a playoff series. Shrug. This is one of the Preller moves I don’t really understand. Course if the going rate for Tanaka is 15M and Kluber is 11M I see why they didn’t go that route to get another depth option. Still need another pen arm and outfield depth, but we have half the decent pitchers in MLB so… (Obvious sarcasm)
CNichols
Apparently Luchessi has like a very methodical routine when he starts and they didn’t think he could adapt to usage out of the pen last year which is why they optioned him to the alternate site instead of moving him to the pen.
I think thats part of your point, they don’t see Luchessi as being usable out of the bullpen and he doesn’t fit in the rotation so he needed to be moved.
Moneyballer
Fair point, I like the way you think. Is the reverse logic also true in that the Padres feel that should Musgrove not be a piece in their rotation, he has the stuff to make it out of the pen? I don’t think he’s ever been used in that role before….
YourDreamGM
Musgrove has world series ring relieving for trashtros. Has half a dozen pitches. Underrated. You need to watch him or look at individual measurements. Only pay attention to 2020. Yes small sample size, but the results are from change.
MikeD26
Luchessi is a LHP and SD has many of those in the BP , Musgrove is better now and has a higher ceiling .
sss847
tune in next week when the Padres acquire German Marquez
PapiElf
Seems like a little bit of an overpay but I understand the Pirates wanting as many prospects for their rebuild.
lowtalker1
Not one top 100
3Rivers
Head #7 Padres prospect
lowtalker1
According to mlb? Ba dropped their new 100 and head wasnt in the 7
ukpadre
You’d want a top 100 prospect for a guy with a career ERA over 4? You’re insane!
krillin89
Wow, Padres are getting even better. They are scary
ocjthhalos
Breaking news from Jeff Passan- Padres to acquire Joe Musgrove’s mother and his uncle
lowtalker1
They live in El Cajon… why not. El Cajon sucks
DarkSide830
Cruz also looks like a nice sleeper
PiratesFan1981
Well, this helps the Pirates going further to 10 wins this season. Since they own the longest losing streak in MLB, might as well hold the most losses and fewest wins! Gosh it’s hard to be a Pirates fan
bobtillman
I think they got a pretty good hall. I like Musgrove too but there’s a whole lot of Chris Archer there…good #3, maybe #2, nice contract/control. Bucs did OK IMHO.
frustratedpittsburghpiratesfan
More $$$$ savings for Nutting! What a joke.
DarkSide830
bruh what
lolzmets
“bruh” also is not a word. Maybe it’s a word for a baby, that can’t walk yet. Use your words.
ukpadre
Says the guy whose handle has “lolz” in it. Pot, kettle, black, my friend.
Simodine
No he just sucked.
PinstripedPride
So the Mets got a starter out of this too? Lucchesi actually headed to the Big Apple. Hmm who else is in this deal?
lowtalker1
Luchessi is bad
Blessyouboys
Hopefully the Blue Jays are the third team!!
Deleted_User
It’s the Mets
bobtillman
Luchessi going to the Mets
Jeff Zanghi
Wow this seems like quite a return for Musgrove… I mean he’s a solid enough pitcher but 5 players including top caliber prospects like Hudson Head and then several more is quite a haul. Looks like a good move for Pittsburgh
frustratedpittsburghpiratesfan
Owner continues to salary dump. Soon MLB will be paying the Pirates. Oh, they are already doing that and owner puts in his pocket. The big markets don’t need minor league teams, they can just use the Pirates as their farm team.
TheSmallMarketBlues
Uh, is it just me or does it seem to anyone else that the Mets are getting Luchessi for nothing?
frustratedpittsburghpiratesfan
Luchessi makes more than the league minimum. So, sure the Pittsburgh Pirates traded him. I was surprised they didn’t trade him to Mets. That seems to be Pittsburgh Pirates MO. What a joke of a owner and Franchaise.
whyhayzee
The Mets are sending Bonilla back to the Pirates.
Monkey’s Uncle
But the Mets keep his contract.
Say Hey Now Kid
The Mets extended him
Deleted_User
That fills out the Padres rotation. Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Paddack and Morejon. I’m assuming Dinelson Lamet isn’t ready to go on opening day.
C-Daddy
Waiting for the forthcoming “Jays were runners up to land Musgrove” article on Sportsnet.
Halos2002
This has got to take the Padres and Mets out of the Bauer race. Right?
CNichols
Joey Luchessi should not be taking anyone out of the Bauer race. Best case scenario Luchessi is a #3 SP, more likely than not he’s like a 5th starter on a good team.
Bauer is a totally different type of acquisition than that. If the Mets still want a top of the rotation arm, this shouldn’t take them out of that.
Halos2002
I agree it shouldn’t but they are currently sitting at: DeGrom, Stroman, Syndergaard, Matz and now Luchessi.
Oddvark
Did you already forget about Carrasco?
Halos2002
Yes. Yes I did. The stove has been too hot to remember all of these moves
DarkSide830
euh Id take Lucchesi over a lottery ticket if I were PIT.
CNichols
Yeah Luchessi is controllable through 2024 too, so there theoretically still would have been time for him to play for a rebuilt PIT team if he lasted through the rebuild.
Might have been that they didn’t want to pay him arb raises over the next couple years and just opted for prospects instead.
Bruin1012
Wow gotta hand it to Preller when he goes for it he goes for it.
The NL West is gonna be a dogfight if the Padres haven’t caught the Dodgers at the very least it reduces the margin of error probably down to one significant injury on the Dodgers and the Padres can take this division. This will be a fun fight to watch. Good luck Padre fans way to make it interesting Preller.
parts unknown
more prospects!!!! more losses! 2021 looks dismal for the bucs. Good luck, big joe!
SupremeZeus
Musgrove. Meh.
slider32
Teams are getting better deals by making trades, This really hurts the free agents, they aren’t getting what they want with all the trades.
mlb1225
To Padre Fans;
You are getting a very underrated pitcher. He’s been severly hurt by a poor Pirates defense. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen Musgrove give up runs on bloopers and weak hit grounders that were just out of the reach of poor defenders like Josh Bell, Colin Moran, Gregory Polanco and Kevin Newman. Help Musgrove get to the playoffs, because he’s a really likeabe guy and I want to see him do good.
Jeberdoo
Yeah man. Musgrove is very underrated. And getting better. Not an ace but solid.
Rsox
The Padres staff continues to get better. I’m surprised the Mets didn’t try to get one of them to take Matz but i guess even the Pirates aren’t desperate. And Joey Lucchesi just sounds like a Queens New York name
Jeberdoo
Hahahaha! It does!
I like luchessi. He needs to develop another pitch to take the next step but he’s a lefty with a good head. Just not sure if he’s ultimately bullpen or backend rotation. Time will tell
Get rid of the softball players
Preller is the only one of the 30 gms in mlb to correctly read this off season and also next off season.
This off season was the time to get your tor sp because next year’s tor sp is not as deep.next year outside of gray and castillo other teams will have to approach the padres to see if they want to get rid of their surplus
Oddvark
If Musgrove is your #5 starter, you are in pretty good shape.
bayareabenny
Any team that wins a championship when only 37% of a normal season is played is not a legit champion.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Disagree. There was an extra playoff round that was best out of 3 that could easily have derailed any playoff team due to complete randomness of a three game series. No home field advantage throughout the playoffs and just the absolute grind of playing in the bubble. While the regular season may have been easier the playoffs were not. And you think the Dodgers were not going to make the playoffs after winning the NL West seven consecutive seasons before 2020?
angt222
So the Padres used the Mets to facilitate the gap between them and the Pirates, lol. Luchessi isn’t even a lock for the Mets rotation. I guess depth is good.
MetsFan22
The Padres didn’t use the Mets for anything.
angt222
You’re right. Pirates flipped Lucchessi to Mets. In that case I don’t know how this constitutes a 3 team trade.
jakec77
It might still be a three team deal in that the deals may be contingent on each other; so, if one of them were to fall apart (if a player were to fail his physical, for example) then the whole thing is off without ramifications.
Get rid of the softball players
Cherington did the right move and got a good return
Darkside
bwhahahahahahhaha,
Oh dear lord. The man as a starter has 4.59 ERA and is 26-38.
He sucks, and people are posting like the Padres added the final piece to their WS aspiration puzzle.
csspackler
You can always tell a barstool GM when he points to a career W-L record, then adds a “haha” to his commentary..
rocky7
And while not popular with the “metrics” crowd, ignoring the fact that this guy has a very lopsided career losing record and gives up 4.5 runs per game is a bit smug don’t you think?
Darkside
perhaps you should come out from under the bar table you drank yourself under last night, one never does their best thinking laying on the floor.
CNichols
You’re using his pitcher W-L record to try to argue that he is not good? Did you just time travel in from 50 years ago?
In his first four years Tom Glavine had a 33-41 record, and now the guy is in the Hall of Fame. Not saying Musgrove is going to be Tom Glavine, but I am saying W-L is meaningless.
Stats that matter like his FIP last year (3.49), and his K%, (33.1) and the statcast peripherals on him show that he’s a solid SP.
Darkside
Funny, W-L is how they determine division winners.
barring injuries, he will be in the bullpen by mid season
CNichols
No, that is team record, not pitcher W-L. They are two very different things.
deGrom won a Cy Young award in 2018 season where he had a 10-9 pitcher W-L record because the Mets were not very good. Contrast that with Phil Hughes in 2010 who was on a Yankees team with an elite offense and he went 18-8.
By your logic, 2010 Hughes is better than 2018 deGrom because he had more wins. If you look at the underlying stats, Hughes had a 4.19 ERA in 2010 and deGrom had 1.70 ERA in 2018. No one with a brain would take Hughes over deGrom once you start factoring in stats that matter.
Musgrove has been pitching on a last place team with no offensive support and bad defense, his pitcher W-L is irrelevant to his personal performance.
Darkside
Jason Degrom is a career 70-51 with a 2.61 ERA.
How on god’s green earth do you have the nerve to bring him into this conversation.
Rsox
This “Jason Degrom” sounds like a good Pitcher. What team does he play for?
Tom1968
You do know the yr he was 10-9, he could have been some outrageous record of 26 and 3 if the mets scored 3 runs in every start…
mlb1225
I would put money down that Musgrove has a better season than either Darvish or Snell. He’s really good and you can’t judge him because the Pirates never score runs for him and has made constant misplays when he pitches.
Deleted_User
No one is judging him based on the Pirates never scoring runs for him.
Jeberdoo
Dude. You sound like the dumbest guy who pretends to know the game. Literally quoting stats on a pitcher that’s developing and has had impressive improvements in a team that hasn’t supported him. It’s obvious you haven’t seen Musgrove pitch.
ukpadre
I would take that bet in a heartbeat and run away laughing with your money. Please tell me you are being hyperbolic? Only way this happens is it either Snell or a Darvish get injured and miss the season.
Le Grande Orangerie
I just read his post. He used more than W-L.
Deleted_User
Get that “26-38” out of here Darkside! Pitcher wins and losses are IRRELEVANT!
Jeberdoo
Dude. You sound like the dumbest guy who pretends to know the game. Literally quoting stats on a pitcher that’s developing and has had impressive improvements in a team that hasn’t supported him. It’s obvious you haven’t seen Musgrove pitch.
stretch123
I love how the Padres are targeting pitchers to try to slow down the Dodgers offense, rather than trying to overload on offense with acquisitions such as Kris Bryant or Fransisco Lindor. If I was them though, I’d go out and offer one or two or their young starters for Jose Ramirez from Cleveland. That would make them soooo dangerous. Maybe start the convo with an Abrams and Weathers package for him. At this point, they should go all in.
Shrutefarm
I’m not sure Musgrove is the guy to slow down the Dodgers.
Darkside
well if he throws his body in front of their team bus, he might.
Hudson6
Jose Ramirez is not currently for sale. If the Padres wanted to get him they would have to severely overpay. Besides which, where would he play? 2B? What about Cronenworth and Kim?
Jeberdoo
Why? Padres have a fantastic infield with actually a lot of depth as it stands. At some point it just sounds like a drunken wish list. Lol!
To me, the amount of payroll the Padres have added over the last few years has been astounding for a team that was considered a mid market team at the very best. Looking at how Preller has balanced the depth of his farm and used it to maximize trade value….coupled with the surprisingly generous ownership has been fun to watch. But it’s not an endless river. I’d be surprised if anything more then low $ tweaks were coming from here on out. And that’s fine. I’m looking forward to seeing what this group can do. And I think their system has several very intriguing upper level prospects that I’m still looking forward to seeing.
Shrutefarm
Joe Musgrove vs. LA Dodgers in his career
0-3 5.40 era. OPS almost .900
For Love of the Game
D’oh!
need_a_no-no_pads
Wins and loses means nothing especially when you are a pitcher for a terrible Pirates team. In 2018 he gave up 3 ERs to the Dodgers, at the beginning of 2019 he gave up 5 and at the end of 2019 he gave up 1 ER against the Dodgers. This shows he is not only getting better, but was better against a better Dodger team (late 2019).
Shrutefarm
I just posted the stats for reference for those that think that the Padres are building a team specifically to counter LA. You can take from it what you will. I don’t think many Dodger fans are up in arms over this acquisition (no pun intended) I will add, though, that you got the order of his starts mixed up. His first start was 3R in 5 innings, then 1R in 6+ innings in early 2019 and finally his most recent start later in 2019 he gave up 6R in 5 innings.
Ma4170
Well, now the Mets can cut Matz and save $4M (as long as it’s before March 17).. clearing money for springer
SadRedsFan
Honestly, this seems unnecessary. It probably blocks some of their younger pitchers like Mackenzie Gore. Giving up more prospects for a decent-but-not-great pitcher like Musgrove isn’t the smartest way to go about.
You only need 3 really good starters in the postseason anyway (like the Nats in 2019).
Simodine
You need more then that to make the post season in a 162 game season. Pitching depth is what gets you there.
Aces win in the playoffs.
Jeberdoo
Amen Simodine. Part of what has made the Dodgers so dangerous in recent years is the absolute depth on both sides of the ball. If you go into a year with just 5 starters and no depth, then good luck. Over a full 162 game season, teams are quite often very different in composition and dynamic just going into the playoffs. Let alone who steps up to help carry them deep into it. Positional depth is paramount to championships in baseball. Particularly pitching.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Have two teams in the same division ever won 100 games apiece? That could happen in the NL West this season. It’s going to be an NL East (Braves, Mets) vs. NL West (Dodgers, Padres) playoff matchup this year. Should be some great baseball for sure! I’m not sure any AL team measures up to the Dodgers, Padres or Braves this year.
ABCD
Yes, the Braves edged the Giants by one game in 1993 NL West. Both won over 100 games.
differentbears
That was back when there were two divisions, so the Braves and Giants didn’t play each other quite as much.
2018, Yankees and Red Sox won 100 and 108 games, respectively.
But 2001 takes it. The 2001 Oakland Athletics won 102 games… and finished 14 games out of first.
YourDreamGM
If they don’t have expanded playoffs it’s going to be a shame to loss one of the wild card teams. Need expanded playoffs or the central has to play in the play in game.
Goose
Pirates are trying to compete with the Red Sox for the #1 pick next year.
Darkside
This could be one of the best fleece jobs the Pirates ever pulled.
The Padres are trying to act like the big boys with zero experience at it.
Country bumpkin leaves sleepy town to enter the big city and winds up on the back of a milk carton.
to be continued…..
Hudson6
“Country bumpkin leaves sleepy town to enter big city…”. You do realize that Joe Musgrove is originally FROM San Diego, right?
Fleece job? Google Hudson Head arm-bar. Have fun with that.
Darkside
Country bumpkin=Padres.
Jeberdoo
Darkside = troll
Darkside
the best there is
dan55
The Pirates don’t fleece, they get fleeced. See Gerrit Cole, Chris Archer for examples.
Darkside
not this time
Todd Kemmerer
Those days are over seriously…look at this management since cheerington and travis Williams took over. Build for 2024-2025…most of the talent they received are 2023 eta. Also I truly believe that ownership will spend, not sure the amount but will spend. Cheerington and Williams didn’t leave their jobs without some sort of assurances of payroll. Within a year or 2 I see pirates having one of the top 5 team prospects. I maybe to positive, but the pirates system is trending up.
joblo
Both of those trades were under a previous management. Those incompetents are gone.
Jeberdoo
What insightful comment. Sound like a common troll to me.
mlb1225
This isn’t really a fleecing. The Padres are getting a good pitcher and the Pirates are getting back a decent haul. As a Pirate fan, Musgrove was infurirating to watch, not because of anything he did, but because he was never rewarded for good pitching. So many times, I watched him give up runs because routine plays were botched by Colin Moran, Kevin Newman or Josh Bell, so many times I watched him give up runs on bloop singles that Starling Marte would let fall in front of him, or take bad routes to routine flyballs, or because Gregory Polanco or would get a bad jump on a flyball, or watch a ball sneak just out of Newman’s reach because he had an awful jump. You put this man on a team with an even average defense and he’s gonna give you a really good season.
Tom1968
Had 6 months to pick a name and you choose Hudson? How about..
Bed head
Dead head
Dread head
Ed head
Jed head
Led/lead head
Ned head
Ped (p.e.d.) head
Red head
Ted head
Zed head
Hudson6
My nephew’s name and age. Is there a problem with that?
Tom1968
Is hudson 6 his real name?..
Dick 6
Kick 6
Lick 6
Rick 6
1 it’s not about ” hudson”
2 get a sense of humor
Just_a_thought
One could say the joke flew over Hudson’s head.
Get rid of the softball players
Inputs better than article
14yearoldbaseballfanatic
Maximum velocity
Lowtalker1
Cnichols
Good posts
Edelapena08
WOW. and we didn’t give up our top prospects! WS or bust!!! Go Friars!! also….does this mean Lamet’s injury is worst than they think???? 2nd TJ surgery perhaps??? either way, 2022 is our year!!!
Shaun owens
Pittsburgh is never going to win
Morningview21
Pittsburgh and the Dodgers were the only teams to make it to the postseason every year from 2013-2015. That was with a terrible GM. With BC, things really aren’t that bleak
Deleted_User
The Cardinals won the NL Central in all 3 of those years!
jakec77
This is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but it seems like a good deal for all 3 teams.
oooofishrighton
Padres definitely have talented pitchers but depending on which guys they have this year. Darvish has been terrible before the second half last season. Snell who is great but only pitches 5 innings.
libertyfighter
Because of the shortened MLB season in 2020, starting Pitchers are not going to be able to shoulder a normal load; therefore, the elite teams need to stack up starting pitchers. I think Preller’s plan may be to use 6 or starters, rotating the young ones from the minors. I also think Lamet will be on a strict innings limit and could possibly be moved to the pen, maybe even in the closer role.
nick1218
The Mets are the 4th best team in the NL at best right now, maybe not even that. And the Nats have added more people this off season than most people realize
Luc 2
Exactly im a Nats fan so this is easy to say but I think they have a chance to be better than them. Mets fan are so delusional, I get their excitement but saying they the best in NL…Please
MetsFan22
Please give me a break. The difference between the Nats and Mets is huge. Don’t get your hopes up.
Luc 2
Same thing for you buddy when was the last time the Mets had a good playoff run and dont give me a bunch of Wilpon crap. The Nats play good ball unlike the Mets and a owner that just tweets. Congrats if you do make the playoffs. At least we Nat fans are nice unlike Mets fan who always get their hopes high
MarlinsFanBase
I’m trying to figure out how anyone needs to try to catch up to the Mets. They finished in last place last year and have not been in the playoffs in a few years. I think the Mets need to worry about getting out of last place before thinking about the Dodgers. It’s laughable to boast a team that finished in last, has not been in the playoffs for a few years, that was trending down at the end of the shortened season, in which 2/3rds of their games were against division rivals.
In other news, I’m still curious about the baseball questions I asked @MetsFan22. Still haven’t gotten an answer.
Jeberdoo
And I would have thought that the year the nationals won the World Series too. Fact is, Mets are definitely on the right track to making themselves serious contenders. Good base of players on both sides of the ball and new ownership that you can believe in. But they have yet to prove anything in the field. Again Metsfan22, you prove to be the absolute biggest homer on this site. Nothing you say has validity. You could run a single A team out there and you would be beating your chest while calling for the World Series trophy. If you want people to take you seriously then stop be such a homer and at least try to be realistic.
Luc 2
Said it right there buddy. Metsfan22 is always scared to respond when he know he is wrong
MarlinsFanBase
You know the problem with @MetsFan22 is that he listened his entire life to…and I’ll use Ron Darling’s terminology for this…Mets Hyperbole, and unfortunately MetsFan22 was gullible and naïve enough to believe it as factual.
Luc 2
True, Mets fans grow up thinking they are like the dodgers who have lots of success. I feel bad they gotta learn the way of the A’s or Rays. They have so mucm money but shove it down a toilet
MarlinsFanBase
Exactly. They don’t realize that they are just another team, but with the big payroll and NY spotlight to overhype them all the time.
And you know it’s bad when Ron Darling, a member of their own broadcast team, openly used that “Mets Hyperbole” phrase to describe what he and the rest of the SNY team and Mets beat writers do when they talk about the Mets. And gullible, blind homers like @MetsFan22 take that stuff literally.
Heck, I imagine there are many Mets fans convinced that the 62 Mets are better than the 27 Yankees. I’m sure @MetsFan22 and his ilk can even pick and choose one or two stats to prove it.
MetsFan22
You’re talking about proving it… how come nobody says that for the Padres??? The last real season the Mets had a way better year than the Padres… last year.. the horrible marlins made the playoffs. You can’t take last year seriously… but the Padres are a WS contender and the Mets need to prove it.. no you guys just need to look at the rosters. Mets have just as much of a chance as anyone but the dodgers. And even the best team doesn’t always win so I wouldn’t be surprised if the Mets were to beat the dodgers in a playoffs serous.. it would be a good series regardless.
MarlinsFanBase
Wait…so 2019 was the last real season? So are Brandon Nimmo’s numbers for the 2019 season the ones we should all be looking at?
I need to know since you tend to bounce your comments around with very little consistency from moment to moment.
BTW, I’m still curious to know what position you play in college; what you played in high school; what you played in travel ball; and what you played in rec ball.
MetsFan22
The year he was playing hurt the whole season? And only played like 60 games? Yeah still had a 783 ops… better than most marlins players.
MarlinsFanBase
I know one thing about the Marlins. They made the playoffs in a year when 2/3rds of their schedule was against their division rivals, and they had the toughest schedule in all of MLB entering the season. And they won a playoff series.
There was a team that finished in last place that had an easier schedule according to previous season’s records, and also played 2/3rds of their schedule against division rivals.
Are we really ignoring that?
lolzmets
The Mutts roster is garbage. Last place finish in 2021 book it and lock it! And this little crackpot will be a ghost then!
MarlinsFanBase
Wait, so there is an excuse for Nimmo being injured in 2019 for his poor production, but then there is no respect for a team that made the playoffs in a schedule of playing 2/3rds of their games against division rivals, and half of their games missed by their players due to COVID?
Something seems to contradict here.
Luc 2
Yur so dumb the mets suck
Jeberdoo
Another worthless comment. Congrats metshomer22. You might make a record. I’d literally be embarrassed about you if I were a mets fan. Your ignorance knows no bounds. SMH
jim stem
Let’s not forget that the Mets lost their #2 and #3 pitchers, their #4 has move to 2, their #5 was horrible and were trying to get outs from AA pitchers.
On the flip side, Marlins players tested positive early in the season causing many schedules to be reworked. This filled up with their own schedule with 7 inning games against teams who were at that point dealing with their own Covid issues.
Listen, I’m happy for Marlins fans to finally have a reason to watch beyond baseball beyond 60 games for a change. But over 162 games, those weak position players will have to face a whole lot more MAJOR LEAGUE quality pitching, not AA pitchers. On top of that, their own pitchers will need to pitch more than a 7 inning game, too.
Mets are getting better and (hopefully) healthier, more talented and have an owner who wants to build. By July or the 81st game, the Marlins will probably be trading anyone making over the major league minimum…to real contenders.
Luc 2
Hopefully Kim Ng can change this and make Marlins a winning club in 2 years. Unlike the Mets who wont win a WS for a while
MetsFan22
Actually the Mets had a harder schedule than the marlins but you guys had a harder schedule in terms of winning percentage because you played us who won 86 games and we played you guys. So that’s how you passed us in that… just thought I’d let you know….
MarlinsFanBase
Hmmm…let me see…we played the Braves, Nats, Phillies, Rays, Yankees, O’s, Red Sox, Blue Jays and Mets. You played the Braves, Nats, Phillies, Rays, Yankees, O’s, Red Sox, Blue Jays and Marlins. Hmmmm…trying to see how the Mets had a harder schedule.
But I forgot, you educated us on how the Mets had more health problems than the Marlins and Braves this season.
MarlinsFanBase
@Jim Stern
Wow, your post comes very dangerously close to crossing the line of being very logically similar to @MetsFan22 with some of the excuses you came up with there. Especially that second paragraph. You really think that it was easier to have to play so many games in short periods of time and have so many double-headers? wow!
And what other teams had major COVID issues when they played the Marlins? The Mets had two, with guys that were at the bottom of their roster.
As for the weak position players, I guess you fail to realize the things those weak ball players did better than the Mets…like baserunning, defense, speed. The Mets aren’t even close to the Marlins in those categories.
But just ignore the Marlins.
And FYI…Loria is no longer the owner of the team. If you want to talk about how the Mets are different because they have a new owner, you have to respect that the Marlins have a new ownership that is not running the team like Loria did. Or are you getting a little homer in your eye like it gets in MetsFan22’s eye all the time?
Jeberdoo
Always an excuse. I’m sorry bud. But you should have OWNED the Marlins the last two years. And your making excuses? My money is on the Marlins in 3 years. Unless you find a way to fix that farm while topping off the major league roster. Marlins are building for a stretch. Mets not as much. Not that I don’t think the Mets can’t make it happen. Not my teams either way. Just saying the Marlins are building for more sustained success. And it may take a few years longer. ♂️
Luc 2
Change of owner should never be an excuse and say they didnt spend. I see this coming from Mets fan a lot and then all of a sudden they get a new owner that just tweets and they become ignorant and say the playoff contenders, Now your GM maybe in trouble hopefully not, no fans are worse than Mets fan maybe the Phillies
Luc 2
@Jeberdoo and @MetsFan22 apparently your team can’t hire the right GM. If the Mets organization knew about this you guys will be in trouble but if they didnt its funny that they hired a person that was desperate good luck in finding a new GM. #InRizzoWeTrust top 5 Gm in MLB
bad bruce
I am as big a Mets fan that I know. One thing needs to be made clear – even after Cohen buying the team the Mets still have SO much ground to make up for. Mets are trending down. We saw that in 60 games last year. Nimmo is not good. Signing Springer to be the next Ellsbury will only continue to hurt. We don’t need to sign Thor because what has he done over the last 3 years? Stroman is overpaid. We can’t play defense.
We are putting a temporary bandaid over this team in trying to be a 2nd rate Yankees of the late 90s. I love my Mets but I have never drank their kool-aid.
Even top-down we stink. Wilpons – Awful. Hired Beltran – Fired before his first game. Botched the original sale to Cohen. Hired a new GM after our old one was putrid. New GM fired because he’s a jerk.
Different sport, but Islanders lost their top player, but changed top down with PROVEN exec’s. Now they are great. We need to do that on the baseball side.
MarlinsFanBase
It’s refreshing to see a Mets fan that sees reality.
You may be in trouble with some of your Mets brethren though, especially with you seeing Nimmo and “Thor” like myself and others see them.
As a fan, when you have a situation, all you can do is hope for the best for your team, and hope that the buffoons in your fan base don’t embarrass you too much.
With this said, the one thing everyone in the NL East can agree on is that this is MLB’s deepest division.
Eighty Raw
Biceps is the singular form
theodore glass
All teams did well in this trade.
Cap & Crunch
Think they are just seeing a market inefficiency and jumping on it
More teams should get in on this quick, going rate for above avg MLB players past ARB 1 has never been lower
I know, I know tho, what about 2027 you say!!!!
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Question is how much of an upgrade is Musgrove over Lucchesi? I think Mets getting a pitcher is great but I’m not sure Lucchesi is their answer. I would not expect the Mets to compete just because they’re making big splashes. I had my money on them for a few years and they came up empty in the division race.
As for the Padres, not sure this makes them drastically better, but after all the deals they’ve made so far, they are a sore for the Dodgers in that division.
Jeberdoo
I think it’s an upside move for both teams. I personally like both pitchers. I do feel Musgrove is further along his career path though. So for me this is a move to gain more upside for both the Mets and Padres as relational to what they gave up. It does just seem like one of those win win win trades. Which is weird for a 3 team trade that is getting this much attention.
Mario93
Padres will have the type of pitching staff your team doesn’t wanna face. You already know your “potent” offense will struggle to score 4 runs all series ..
Jim Thome is my homie
Musgrove will now have to pay 10% more in CA state taxes (13.3%) due to this trade from PA (3.07%). That’s over $578,000 on his 4.45M contract for the season.
Shouldn’t that be something they talk about in CBA meetings?
doxiedevil
even more in Taxes…… new administration.
CNichols
It’s a more complicated than that because I am pretty sure they tax them for road games at the rate of the state in which they’re playing, which is probably a nightmare to figure out. There’s also weird reciprocity and tax credit issues, like for example a PA resident might not have to pay OH tax on money earned in OH and vice versa.
So yes his taxes are going up because of all the SD home games plus the games at LAD and SF are getting taxed at the CA rate, but when they play at MIA he pays 0% on those games, when they play at COL he’s paying 4.6% and so on and so forth, so its not quite as bad as it looks.
Also there’s tons of ways that people with his kind of money can reduce their tax liability, so hopefully he is working with a CPA/Tax attorney because he should be able to reduce the amount owed drastically.
joblo
Think about those guys in Toronto that have to pay taxes on Canada AND the US.
joblo
Think about those guys in Toronto that have to pay taxes in Canada AND the US.
doxiedevil
I’d still take the Dodgers over San Diego, they have very few holes on the team and tons of money and trade material.
If the Dodger front office thinks teams are gaining on them they will go out a make a big addition, this is not a dumb organization. Heck, I’m a Brave fan and have tons of respect for Los Angeles, they are so solid.
Jeberdoo
Well that’s not much of a statement. Thanks for picking Goliath over David. Lol!
Look. I’m a lifelong Padres fan. But almost first and foremost a baseball fan because most my life it’s been tough being a Padres fan. That said, take your Dodgers. You should! They are the returning Champs and have an amazing combination of team farm and front office.
I’m excited to have the Dodgers be awesome just as the Padres are becoming awesome. To me it’s like when the Yankees and reds had coinciding peaks in the early 2000’s. Could make amazing baseball. And I love amazing baseball! 😉
Ducky Buckin Fent
@lolzmets –
As a vet & a business owner I’m not very good at being “woke”, or whatever.
But – man – give it a rest already. This is not the proper forum. No one enjoys your schtick.
& – I’m pretty sure – you strike all of us as a fella in serious need of a BJ & a hobby.
Yankee Clipper
Dude, you crack me up, brother … lolol
jim stem
Nice add for the Mets and the catcher the Pirates received looks like a nice addition as well.
Lucchesi makes for a nice #5 on pretty much any team. It’s just a shame for Pirates fans that they have to endure another dismal year.
LordD99
Baseball is a lot hope. They need to hope that the Cherington regime leads to positive results. He has a good track record building farm systems and that will be key here for the Bucs.
Knownotsomuch
Excellent trade for the Pirates. Excellent trade for Musgrove. You will love him in San Diego.
Jeberdoo
Yeah man. Hell never be an ace IMO, but I do feel he’s figuring out who he is. I like the pitcher musgrove got to be this year and hope he maintains or improves. Basically I think his floor is much higher then others and think he could improve. Pirates got a good return for him. Sucks going through a rebuild but this was a move that really helps their farm for a pitcher of this quality. I’ll be the weird one to tip my cap to Pittsburgh on the return overall. Lol
sdryder278
Lucchesi was not going to factor into the Padres staff this season
bravesfan
So interesting approach by the bucs. This is a full rebuild move getting a ton of really interesting high upside players. Problem is, most are early in their minor league career. So nice upside, but all could easily be swing a misses. Look, Braves did moves like this not so long ago. The key, is trading the ones that won’t make it in package deals for players that can provide immediate value you flipped for better prospects. Timing is key… I know I’m speaking a revelation here lol but idk… I like this move by the bucs.
LordD99
Nice haul by the Pirates, down to getting Endy Rodriguez too.
Gregory58
Once again the Pirates trade for potential. “a large package of prospects” is wishful thinking. Lucchesi is no replacement for Musgrove he’s just cheaper to the tune of $4 million. The prospects are low A and rookie ball and are at best 3 years out, if they make it that far.
Most likely before spring ball starts the Pirates will trade Taillon, Brault and Fraizer. Think 2010 Pirates.
Morningview21
What do you mean “Lucchesi is no replacement for Musgrove”? The Pirates didn’t get Lucchesi. The Mets did. Also, bolstering the farm system isn’t wishful thinking. Even if you wanted the Pirates to spend Yankees money and sign all the best Free Agents, we still don’t have the core to be a contender. Our window to win is years away. The best thing we could do would be to trade players of value for players who project to hold value once that window arrives.
Darkside
Muskrat will be in the bullpen by mid season
mlb1225
Um, no. He has been one of the most underrated players in baseball because the Pirates have been awful most of the time he’s been with them. They have zero defense and Musgrove has suffered the most from it. The Padres have a competent defense with Tatis Jr., Cronenworth, Machado and Grisham.
Darkside
We have seen this before. Didn’t the Phillies go and grab everyone they could, only to fail miserably.
Just grabbing everyone is not a recipe for success
Yankee Clipper
Hey! No sir! You cannot do this. Darkside is already here. And you are not him (I think).
Dorothy_Mantooth
The Pirates received 3 legitimate prospects in Hudson Head, Omar Cruz & Endy Rodriguez. They are all pretty young, with Cruz being the oldest at nearly 22 years old and he’s the most advanced of the 3 as well. The other 2 guys are minor league depth at best. If the Pirates intend to compete in 2024 or 2025, these 3 could be a big part of the equation. You never know for sure with prospects but they all have good pedigree and figure to at least make it to the majors. Hopefully this turns out to be a win-win-win trade for all 3 teams.
DodgerOK
Five players for Musgrove? What were they thinking?
Deleted_User
They were thinking that this package is more quantity than quality
Jeberdoo
And I dont think the quality was that bad. Pittsburgh got solid return for Musgrove. I’m actually impressed. And I think luchessi and Musgrove both fit better with the teams they move too. It might not pan out for anybody. But I like the fact that it could be awesome for everybody. I still think Musgrove could be a good 4/5 guy. I also think luchessi could too but he also has more bullpen upside if that doesn’t work.
WarkMohlers
Four players 21 or younger and one 26 year old power reliever. This is a hopeful reliever flip and 4 players that fit the Pirates timeline.
As for the Padres, 3 young players that don’t fit their timeline and Lucchesi who was already looking to be the odd man out. Better to cash in now before he’s phased out.
YourDreamGM
Out of the 3 trades this one was the best. Least cost in salary and prospects. Maybe the best pitcher. Wouldn’t surprise me. Have to watch baseball to know how good Musgrove is. Pirates did alright to. Head has off the charts upside. Not easy to get a catcher and he has huge upside as well. Other 3 guys are just guys. Useful but I like my upside.
Deleted_User
Yeah, i really can’t find anything to complain about here. On Snell, the Padres overpaid in prospects. On Darvish, they better to pray to whatever deity they believe in that Darvish continues to pitch like he has since the 2019 All Star break.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Off-topic: Should RBI’s be removed too?
Jeberdoo
Obviously no clue on the market.lol! Do you even like baseball?
jturk
Gave up better prospects than the darvish trade
jturk
Sorry that comment was meant for above
YourDreamGM
Head plus a backend starter, reliever or major project starter, and who knows if he amounts to anything. Vs 4 upside prospects. The Mets provided the catcher in exchange for a player the padres felt wasn’t good enough.
Very Barry
I like Joe Musgrove, but I think the Padres completely botched the offseason. They took a 60-game season and deemed themselves ready to be title contenders. They needed another year to see exactly what they had and didn’t have with there young pitchers. Now they have blown threw most of what was a very good farm system. Lamet and Gore both have great talent, but have arm issues. They have Tatis and Machado and very little else in the lineup. All these Padres moves have all the earmarks of a General Manager in A.J. Prellar, who is on the hot seat, and making a bunch of big and splashy moves. Two years from now, Prellar will be gone, and the Padres will be an absolute mess even with Tatis.
libertyfighter
They still have the young pitchers who can now get stretched back out and continue to develop at AAA. A legitimate World Series contender will need 6-7 starters to get through a full season with each starter getting 25 – 30 starts Max. The 3 Padre elite starting pitchers left can fill in for injuries if needed. You can make the argument that the Padres still need one more innings eating veteran to stash in the pen for spot starts to keep the number of starts down for the rotation. Perhaps Morejon is that guy.
bbatardo
The Padres have valued quality over quantity on their farm and still have kept most of their top prospects. They also will have time to replenish the lower levels of their system. You have to remember the Padres have evaluated each of these prospects internally so know them better than anyone. Some may turn out good, but the Padres window is open now for at least the next 3-4 years.
martevious
Padres are going to be great. Mariners are better than the Mets.
rct
Mariners are one of the worst teams in baseball. No, they are not better than the Mets.
OilCanLloyd
A sigh of relief from Reese McGuire as his genitals are not the only topic of conversation now.
TommyLasutton
baseball fans are some mental gymnastics superstars. a shortened season doesn’t count because it wasn’t grueling enough… but then want to make it easier to get into the playoffs by expanding it. SMH.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hey Beavis: the Padres just gave the Pirates Head. Heh heh.
Gwynning
Hey! They paid for it, fair and square!
doug c
nutting wallet got great payroll flexibility from this trade seemed to get more prospects than they got for bell and marte
opranger
OMG the 2021 Padres are now the reincarnation of the 1927 Yankees? What crap, you put lipstick on a pig and it’s still a pig! Same thing goes for the Padres! They will figure out away to choke! History is clear, they’re still a minor league franchise with the a terrible team name!
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Shows lack of competitiveness in the MLB.
Pellet is one of the boys…..just hand SD a ring…….
A WORLD SERIES RING IS WORTHLESS, if 26 other teams DIDN’T EVEN TRY FOR IT!!!!!!!
MLB STINKS!
It has turned into TOTAL BS. There is no real league, just a bunch of bsr’s fleecing people…..
Luc 2
ummmm lemme guess you dont watch baseball. Teams are already stacked like the Dodgers and Yankees. Also there are the Medicore team like the Nats, Cardinals, and Astros who could go on runs lol. Then there are the money ball teams which one made it to the WS. Ratio
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Tiger fan……
Luc 2
Lmao imma a Nats fan lol. We are one of those teams that didnt have superstar talent and one WS. Tigers are up and coming so if yur a fan good luck.
beastee
The Nats absolutely had two superstar pitchers.
Luc 2
True and Soto and Rendon, but I mean hes making a point that the MLB is fake and Nats pushed through top teams to win WS. Also telling him not all top money teams make and win WS
JoeBrady
Also telling him not all top money teams make and win WS
=========================================================
That’s the nature of baseball more than the other sports. Since 1999, there have been only 3 teams with the best record to win the WS, and two teams tied for best record that won the WS.
Robertowannabe
You did have superstar pitching talent that won the series for you..
VonPurpleHayes
You act as if this hasn’t been happening forever.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Shows lack of competitiveness in the MLB.
Peller is one of the boys…..just hand SD a ring…..
A WORLD SERIES RING is worthless, if 26 other teams didn’t even try.
MLB STINKS.
JoeBrady
MLB STINKS
——————-
Feel free to stop watching.
Le Grande Orangerie
Agreed Joe. The site administrator takes down all the comments about Porter but leaves us with the 14-year old trolls. if they don’t want to properly screen content they should at least provide a ‘block’ option.
Gwynning
I’ve been told this may be a future option. For 5 years+ now. Don’t hold your collective breath, although it would solve any and all policing issues.
Luc 2
(sigh) lemme guess yur Jared Porters mom and are saying this cuz he just got fired
Luc 2
Men are stupid. Coming from a man that can be dumb but never this dumb. Shows how desperate he was
martyvan90
Wow. In what culture is that appropriate, not offensive and creepy? I’m reluctant to look in people’s past and support firing people for past verbal (text) transgressions…but wow. Would the Mets want to have this guy doing their negotiating? Let’s hope he learns, sets an example and works his way back into the sport.
chace alexander
It’s depressing how little they had to hand away to get these two and a half great pitchers. Hard not to root for San Diego after this offseason.
bush1
Disgusting and stupid. I’ve never understood the fascination with dudes sending these pics unsolicited?! Like why would they assume that a chick would like that? I mean if you look good shirtless maybe a pic of yourself at the beach, but these pics??? Nobody wants that crap. So dumb it hurts my head…
VonPurpleHayes
Comments were closed on the thread. Probably not a good idea to bring up the topic in another thread.
JoeBrady
I feel it should be discussed. IMHO, MLB-R should open it up, have a 1000 people voice their opinion, and be done with it. No one has to get involved unless they want to.
VonPurpleHayes
@JoeBrady it’s fine to have your opinion, but we should also respect the rules of the site we’re all using. You can go tweet about it or use another public forum.
martyvan90
A topic like this will get dopey opinions, some offensive- like all topics. But I sincerely hope VPH thinks his comment through. What we say and don’t say should be determined by social media rules? I fear where we as a society are headed if we defer to social media/political authorities on what can and can’t be said. Was a time the ACLU defended speech, even highly offensive speech. It is a scary time we live in.
Steve Adams
There are approximately 10,000 places on the internet you can go to discuss the Mets situation. It is not worth our time to deal with the complaints, the flagged comments and all of the associated headaches that come with comments being open on such topics. The number of people who prefer them closed (and voice said preference), historically, has been significant.
I recognize that closing comments on topics of this nature will always generate pushback — thank you for being respectful with yours, by the way — but it’s simply not a good use of our limited time/resources to play moderator on sensitive topics that inevitably devolve into political debates and insult slinging. We’ll lose more readers by allowing the comment sections to devolve into that type of chaos than we will by trying to curb discussion on the 1 or 2 out of every 500 posts that have comments closed for whatever reason.
whyhayzee
As someone who routinely posts nonsense I can totally appreciate comments being closed on some of these stories. Thank you for taking the time to write about the decision.
bush1
I understand Steve, and you’re right keeping politics out of this site is a great call. I just figured it would be a universal opinion of disgust and frustration. But who knows in today’s world. I get it.
VonPurpleHayes
@martyvango Where did I say that? I simply said we should follow the rules of a private site when using that private site. We can do whatever we want when in a public forum. I didn’t say anything about social media rules. I simply brought up Twitter as an alternative because JoeBrady seemed to really want to make his opinions on the Mets GM known. There are plenty of places having open discussions about that topic right now. Twitter was just one example. This site purposely closed comments on the topic. We should respect that. That’s all I meant.
martyvan90
Fair enough, I can only imagine how difficult it is to maintain some degree of civility on social media…perhaps I’m overly sensitive to the “solution” pitfalls. Good luck avoiding ad you say political debate and insult slinging. It is unfortunate we often devolve into throwing banana peels at one another. Thanks for your time.
LordD99
The counter argument is that you will get significant comment spillage into other threads by closing comments under the main story. I certainly understand and agree with comments being closed under DV stories. Not sure it’s merited here. I have noticed over at The Athletic at least one story related to this has open comments and so far they’ve been respectful. That’s a for-pay site so perhaps that influences the types of comments.
tiredolddude
Agreed 100%. I’m a dinosaur, but never understood the arrogance and blithering stupidity a “man” must have in doing such a thing
whyhayzee
Remember when we used to bite the tops off trees? Those were good times. Until the meat eaters came along and devoured us.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
There is no real competition for free agents either……..
About 40-60 million BUYS AN ALL STAR INFIELD.
But we have no takers…….
MLB STINKS!
JoeBrady
There is no real competition for free agents
==========================================
Free agency has been slow, but the contracts they’ve been signing have been above expectations.
Bye-bye
The Saber-toothed Superfife
How can no one realize the sham has gotten that bad…….?
Tomfromsd
Exciting times!
Tomfromsd
Exciting times!
Le Grande Orangerie
you can say that again!
Tom1968
1.mets need a new g.m. already
2 mets now have a lucchesi..will the f.b.i be outside citifield all yr now?
dragongrave
prospect 7, 17 and 20 for a mid rotation pitcher, lol, Padres are now just spending dumb
frustratedpittsburghpiratesfan
Pittsburgh Pirates will then trade all their prospects for cash. That’s all their Owner ( Nutting) cares about. How can someone own a MLB Team and have no desire to win a World Series?
tiredolddude
That’s been their course of action since the Cutch era. Get rid of your vets and when your top prospects mature, trade them, too. That said, Cherrington really has no recourse. No reason to keep any vet who can get at the very least a couple of prospects. From all reports, Head and Cruz can make an impact here. I’m glad Bednar is coming home. The other two look to be good, on paper at least. Just can’t see it getting worse.
Robertowannabe
Blah blah blah blah Nutting blah blah blah. The only prospects that they trade for cash are the same type of prospects all teams trade for cash. Those that are barely even close to be considered a prospect. Obviously you have no clue what is in the Bucs minor league system right now. There are a tone of guys that were in the system and since acquired by Cherrington that are all expected to be in and producing by 2023. Most teams do not go out and spend like crazy to try to compete year in and year out because most do not have the revenue base to do so. The Pirates deal with ATT Sports bays the pocket change compared to the deals that the New York, LA and Chicago,. Washington and Philly teams can get. San Diego is all in now but will most likely have to sell, sell sell in a couple of years and strip down and start over again.
frustratedpittsburghpiratesfan
I don’t think each MLB is playing on an even playing field. It’s been like that for years. It is a flawed league and business model for all the teams to compete and have a legit chance for playoffs even every 5 years. I was a big fan of baseball for many years but, they are losing me and several others as fans.
JoeBrady
TB, CL, MN, Oakland, Miami, Cincy, and SD all made the playoffs last year. 5 of the top 8 teams in BB last year were small market.
dragongrave
Easy, look at Cleveland, lol
Robertowannabe
Of the 30 teams, easily 20 are in the same type of business model. They can not afford to extend many of their star players more than one contract. They get a window, try to win for a couple of years and then trade off the players to build for the next window. Some are better than others in doing this just as those ~10 teams that have the financial resources to spend as they please do better at it than others.
bucincharlotte
What he is doing is the only way a small market can compete. Even if they spent another 100 million they cannot compete without a base.
Previous GM’s tried to “compete” but until now they have never done what is needed and tear it all the way down!
Darkside
Hey, we are the Saint Diego Padres who have never won anything who now think we can take turn water into wine and any pitcher into a star.
Dear God, waiting for that implosion to happen in the city boredom.
Padres2019ha
Hey, you’re still here? Do you have a JOB?
Darkside
I write theme songs
“trollin , trollin, trollin, keep them doggies trollin…..
Deleted_User
You clearly don’t
solaris602
I think the Pirates definitely made out on this deal. Musgrove is OK, but I never thought PIT would score a haul like this for a SP with a 4.50 ERA. And yeah I get that some consider ERA to be an antiquated stat, but it is what it is. Kudos to Cherington
MarlinsFanBase
mlbtraderumors.com/2021/01/mets-fire-jared-porter-…
So the Mets have to fire Jared Porter already.
Hmmm…Steve Phillips…Wally Backman…Tony Bernazard…Carlos Beltran…Jared Porter….
It’s good to see how the Mets new owner is changing things….like the way they run their due diligence.
Once again, on behalf of all Marlins, Braves, Phillies and Nationals fans, we thank the Mets for always making sure to be the laughing stock of the NL East. No matter how tough things may be for any of our teams, we can always count on the Mets to take the attention away for the most incompetence and disasters.
Mets Baseball: Wash…rinse…etc. etc.!
whynot 2
Glad to see the Mets bring you exponentially more enjoyment than the Marlins ever will
MarlinsFanBase
Yeah, after all, the Marlins only have two championships compared to the many that the Mets have in far more years of existence.
As for the Mets, I love baseball and comedy. The Mets take care of the comedy part.
MarlinsFanBase
In case you don’t get my comment, your Mets have two championships in 59 seasons compared to the Marlins two in 28 seasons. So, yeah we don’t get as much enjoyment as Mets fans with their illustrious history of greatness.
whynot 2
Just admit it you are a closeted Mets fan
MarlinsFanBase
Closeted? I have no problem saying that I think they are good at baseball comedy. Mets fans can be happy to know that Marlins, Braves, Phillies and Nationals fans are all fans of the Mets comedy show. They’re really good and talented in the way they can always get a good laugh. They’re almost as good as SNL.
Rob66
I think the Pirates did pretty well. They don’t really need MLB ready talent right now and they went for a volume return. Now they can add a low cost starter who can be flipped if he has a good 1st half.
SportsFan0000
Not seeing WHY the Padres would want Musgrove who has just been “average” as an MLB starter.?! The Padres have much better young starters on board already vying for major league starts. The Pirates are the winners in this deal. The Mets did well also.
david steer
How do the prospects they traded here compare to what they gave up for Darvish and Snell, as it seems like they gave up more for a lesser pitcher with less control? Musgrove is a solid pitcher but he doesn’t have anywhere near the upside of Darvish and Snell.
Robertowannabe
The Cubs and Rays got less back because of the size of the contracts that Darvish’s and Snell have.. The Padres picked up most of Darvish’s contract and I think all of Snell’s.. A solid cheap pitcher with control is worth more in trade return than an expensive top pitcher with no salary retained by the trading team.
YourDreamGM
I think it was the weakest return. With Snell trade wilcox is same value as head. Rays got better catcher prospect then pirates but let’s say that is equal. So would you rather have a top 25 in baseball prospect and a former top 25 or a 4th 5th starter prospect, a reliever, and a long shot? Cubs received 4 upside prospects. Either way Musgrove made big changes for the better. Won’t surprise me if he turns out to be their best pitcher.
rico1957
Few years back the Pirates started offering large signing bonuses to their highest picks and were able to grab many high profile talents. Then MLB put in a pool of bonus money that were limiting amounts these picks could be offered closing that loophole. Then the last few years Pirates were making trades gathering International bonus money to offer to players from abroad. Now this year that loophole too has been closed with these monies be allocated by MLB that cannot be traded. If nothing else Buc’s have gone to extremes to get players without having big money to compete with the large market teams. While the return for Musgrove and others is prospects it interesting to note that the more prospects you have the greater the opportunity as small market team to compete. Everyone laughs at team as the losses have mounted, yet the players we are now trading have value because they are quality players. Window to compete may be a few years out but if Cherington can bring in a high number of quality prospects the dream of being relevant stays alive. Emphasis on scouting quality prospects and getting them will hopefully payoff. This is what Cherington is known for accomplishing. Raise It and stay positive, we waited 20 years before and cutting that in half or less will be a welcomed respite!
Robertowannabe
I agree with everything that you said. Was reading on another sight giving an analysis of this trade. With these and the other trades that Cherington has made to go with some talent that already existed in the system, there are now a lot of guys with talent with and ETA of making the major league roster in 2023. They will be able to use a couple (hoping they chose wisely and keep the better of the prospects and promote them) of the prospects to fill the holes, sign a good FA or two to fill the rest and still have good depth in the minors and a quality team on the field. Did not realize how many guys look to be ready by 2023. Hope for little injuries and good decisions by those in charge.
Mystery Team
Big time overpay for Musgrove. He’s done nothing to warrant that type of prospect package, in fact he’s been rather average to below average to this point in his career.
joblo
Overpay for San Diego is a plus for the Pirates.
SportsFan0000
Padres gave up 5 great young players and prospects for a #4 or #5 Starter with a 4+ ERA and only 1 year of control?! What were they thinking?!
This is the kind of deal that usually lands a team a much better, young starting pitcher than Musgrove.
Great Deal for the PIrates!
Mets made out well also!
mrpadre19
Sportsfan0000…..what trade are you looking at?
5 great young players?
1 year of control?
Decent prospects but not great and Musgrove will be a Padre for minimum of three more seasons.
SDHotDawg
Just to play Devil’s Advocate: years of control is not an asset if the player tanks. It’s an unknown “value.”
Hudson6
5 great young players and prospects? Are you looking at the same trade that I am?
Tomfromsd
Apparently not 😉
joew
Screw you Ben we love Joe!… but… .. decent haul for one player who hasn’t been playing to his quality.
actually some decent prospects.. no one screams MVP but i’d have to say the pirates made out on this.
I still want Joe though.. i’ll be cheering for him when ever he comes to town