The Major League Baseball Players Association rejected the league’s most recent proposal to implement a universal designated hitter, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reported this morning in a larger, broad-reaching look at the issues facing the two parties. MLB offered up a universal DH and a willingness to rule in favor of two players on a pair of service time grievances, per Rosenthal, but in exchange they sought an agreement on expanded playoffs, the implementation of a pitch clock and a Spring Training trial run with electronic strike zones, among other elements.
The lack of clarity on whether there will be a DH in the National League next season continues to serve as a major impediment for teams and for some free agents alike. Nelson Cruz and Marcell Ozuna, in particular, can’t fully get a grasp on their markets until they know whether the NL will carry a DH. Meanwhile, NL teams are left to build a lineup and a roster without knowing whether they’ll have a spot for an extra hitter.
The MLBPA clearly doesn’t view the addition of a designated hitter in the National League to be as advantageous to its side as the expansion of playoffs is to the league. That’s plenty understandable, given that most clubs no longer employ expensive, dedicated designated hitters and that the expansion of playoff teams would create far more revenue for the league than for its players.
Rosenthal notes that MLB’s latest offer included an extra $30MM or so to be divided up among players — up from $50MM in 2020’s expanded field — but team-side revenues would increase on a much greater basis. Under the traditional structure (i.e. pre-2020), players’ postseason shares are tied to gate revenue, while teams collect 100 percent of television revenues. Last year, in the absence of fans, players agreed to an expanded, 16-team playoff field that saw $50MM of television revenues divided among players.
From the players’ vantage point, postseason expansion is a double-edged sword. A greater chance to play in October could very well be appealing, but there are likely some who (like many fans) worry about “watering down” the field. Of greater concern is the manner in which postseason expansion could also impact free agency. The league would surely argue that increasing the field will motivate borderline clubs to spend more on the open market, thus making it a win for the players.
However, the opposite effect could also play out as well; if the bar to reach the postseason is lowered, some clubs won’t feel as compelled to spend for an extra couple of wins to push themselves over the top. The margin for error is much greater when nearly half (or even more than half) of the teams in the game qualify for postseason play than it is when only a third of clubs do. That’s especially true when at any given point, there are a handful of teams tanking and actively doing everything they can not to win games.
At the end of the day, there’s a substantial disconnect between the extent to which the league and the union feel the universal DH will benefit players. The MLBPA knows that playoff expansion, and the associated revenues, is a massive bargaining chip to leverage in current talks and in the looming talks for a new CBA. That seems too large a concession to make in exchange for the universal DH — particularly because the commissioner’s office also wants a DH implemented in the National League.
Rob Manfred has continually sought to increase in-game action, and considering the fact that pitchers posted a combined .128/.160/.162 batting line with a 44 percent strikeout rate in 2019, swapping them out for a competent hitter would help with that goal. Of course, many traditionalists abhor the very notion of the designated hitter and are overwhelmingly against its implementation in the National League, but at this point it feels like an inevitability — whether that implementation comes in 2021 or in 2022.
As labor lawyer Eugene Freedman (who recently chatted with MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes about the CBA) points out on Twitter, the very framing of this scenario as a negotiation is somewhat misleading. The two sides already have an agreement in place in the form of the 2016-21 CBA, and the union is under no obligation to renegotiate that agreement simply because the league is now making a push for an expanded postseason format.
The MLBPA’s latest rejection doesn’t mean that the two sides won’t eventually agree to something, of course. The league is obviously very motivated to expand the upcoming postseason field and grow its postseason revenues, so perhaps they’ll put together a more enticing offer. We saw in 2020 that the two sides are willing to come back to the table at the last minute, as 2020’s expanded postseason format was agreed upon about three hours prior to the first pitch being thrown on Opening Day.
Rangers29
I hate to say this about my future employer, but you suck MLB.
VonPurpleHayes
Did you get drafted? Hopefully you can pitch for the Phillies even though you hate them. Haha.
Rangers29
I didn’t get drafted, but trust me when I say that I hope to be on some draft boards in a few years.
BTW, your Phils would have to offer up a ton of cash money.
(I will also say this now, prematurely to any draft conversations I’m in, in a few years. I want the best signing bonus I can get, but after that, I’ll take a biiig discount to play for Texas. I know that I can live comfortably off of a lower salary (from my experiences growing up), and I know that 1 mil per year is plenty. Keep that in mind when I go in the first round.)
GoLandCrabs
Dude thinks he is Brad Pitt playing Billy Beane
Cap & Crunch
Its not just your future employer its your future You !
You do realize that the MLBPA has a solid 50% share in this mess……
How bout when you get drafted use all your charisma you’ve shared here to massage your way up the MLBPA table and make some REAL CHANGE! Thanks in advance
Rangers29
I’m going to try to use my personable and persuasive skills to make a big ole’ dent in this sport, along with my play.
Cap & Crunch
Amen !
Bochys Retirement Fund
Tony Clark is literally as guilty of ruining baseball as much as the league/Manfred is. They act like children arguing over a game of kickball at recess.
VonPurpleHayes
I want a Rangers29 autographed rookie card please.
Rangers29
Will do, @Von.
Rangers29
I literally study pitching, I’m hoping to be the next… well, me. I take a lot of cues from Trevor Bauer, but I influence my game from many different players. I’ll try to start going to perfect game events in the next few years and see how I compare to other talents, but right now I am training myself fully. Because of my situation, I haven’t been able to play HS ball yet, but I’m going to blow them away once I get there. Gotta keep a good mindset if you want to get there though.
SDHotDawg
I wish you the best of luck in fulfilling your dream. Especially with that first taste of humility.
Mrtwotone
@Rangers29
When your famous will you autograph a baseball for my son? xD
VonPurpleHayes
@Rangers29 I’m not kidding. Don’t forget us little people! Haha
Hudson6
What do you currently throw Rangers29?
Vizionaire
ephus?
Rangers29
I have no idea because I haven’t been gunned yet, but comparing my videos to others, it looks about mid 80’s. I throw a 4-seamer, a changeup, a splitter, a sinker/slider/breaking pitch, and a curve. I have recently implemented an arm swing into my initial motion (i.e Max Scherzer, Nolan Ryan), so right before I lift my leg my hands go above my head. It helps keep me fluid in my motion.
I think I’m good, but it’s that mentality that keeps driving me. I still have a few more years of HS, but I’m going to be driving up interest in my pitching until then. I even built my own mound at our house… out of the clay I dug. I’m invested at this point.
Twinsfan333
@rangers29 you may want to consider spending more time actually practicing baseball. Instead of posting on every story all day every day. Leaves not much practice time
Mjshof
Hat tip Von
Halo11Fan
I remember when I pitched. The other team encouraged their batter to pick the right color of the rainbow.
Even though I was pitching, I busted up.
Twinsfan79
Dead on there! Both are terrible. Manfred is worse but both are terrible.
Rangers29
@Twinsfan333
Thanks for the advice, now I have 29 teams that I want to choose from.
Twinsfan79
Good for you kid! Positive thinking is a very powerful tool. One word of advice ( not that I am an expert or anything.. don’t over do it with the sliders/curves until you know for certain your mechanics are tip top. I love the arm swing you talked about. Fluid motion is key. Fluid mechanics leads to long careers. Study guys that never or rarely were hurt. Think Maddux and the likes. Or guys with good curveballs that managed to remain healthy for a long time like Blyleven. They did something right! Have fun man!!!
azbraves20
That’s awesome
Tom1968
Or hes engelbert from the bad news bears
steelerbravenation
Good luck hope you make it & I hope you live your dream playin for your squad
Yankee Clipper
@Rangers29: Brother, I got a good laugh out of your response…. very quippy
Did you see my question regarding Gallo going to the Yankees, BTW? I’m not familiar with the Rangers, but I know how stingy the Yankees are with both money and people (except Otto).
steelerbravenation
What they did right is not taught in today’s game. This day & age they would rather a SP go out and go balls to the wall 100% from the rip & replace him after a few innings with the same
Back when those guys pitched they went 80-85% and dialed it up when they had to
That’s the difference in today’s game to yesteryear
as far as pitching goes.
Max effort for as long as you can go then you will be replaced by another max effort guy
hashtahjimboutonwasright
Ok, Norma Rae.
Rangers29
Yes @Yankee Clipper, I replied to your comment last night.
Mjshof
Ranger29 – keep chasing ur dreams. Let us know about some of the successes. GL kid
MarlinsFanBase
@GoLandCrabs I think he’s more closer to Jonah Hill playing whatever concocted character he was playing. Except this version makes it into a front office based on his MLB: The Show experience.
Rexwood
You are absolutely right. See my comment below.
mj-2
You know what the problem is with all of these negotiations? None of them are centered on delivering a better product to the fanbase.
Instead it’s all about what angle can my side play to drive up a slight tick in profits/salary.
If these two sides came together and focused on delivering a better product to the fans the net effect would be greater demand and higher engagement leading to more profitable opportunities for the league which will result in higher salaries for the players at a far more lucrative pace than expanding the playoffs or adding a DH
MLB’s and MLBPA’s priorities are so out of whack they both deserve to have profits sink on them.
Goal #1 should always be about delivering the best product. The money will be there and grow if you do that. It’s something that seems to be totally lost on both of these sides.
I can’t imagine the fans as a whole actually want expanded playoffs.
giantsphan12
@MJ: well said. If the product is fantastic, the money follows. One thing Steve “drops” in the article but never expanded on was the automated strike zone. I wonder how the MLBPA feels about that. I realize that the 60+ catchers in the Bigs don’t want it for obvious reasons, but maybe the pitchers (or a percentage of them) are more open to it. That would have the largest impact on the game of all the ideas put forth by either side. Personally, I would HATE electronic strike zones. However, I’d LOVE to see old, long tenured umpires who stink at their jobs (Big Joe W., Angel H. to mention a few) GO AWAY!! Get better umps, not a laser to call balls and strikes!!
Pete'sView
Angel H. is by far THE worst major league umpire.
Yankee Clipper
MJ: Well said. Excellent points. They create division by trying to align people with their “side” when it should be our side. And, this decision is mutually beneficial, just not as beneficial as one side would like.
yewed
MJ, your comment is exactly spot on. Both sides looking at from a financial side.
One side with making more money and the other side looking at from more work for the same money. I doubt most players are voting with regards to the integrity of the game at the forefront.
smuzqwpdmx
Fans as a whole would much rather watch their team play meaningful games than watch their team play out the string in August and September. There’s good reason to believe expanded playoffs achieve more competitive games. Only a few purists care about the “integrity” of the playoffs, for most people it’s just entertainment and there’s no reason to get worked up about notions of fairness.
The electronic strike zone would also improve the product for the fans, I think. At least those who don’t enjoy yelling at the TV. And a lot of fans seem to like the DH.
iverbure
That’s the thing MJ. There is a majority of simpleton fans who do want expanded playoffs. Why. There first reason is always, other sports do it!
This is another reason why the league shouldn’t ever give in and change. Once the fans get change they want more. Come on just one more wildcard! Two years later why not more playoff teams! More fanbases of .500 teams will stay interested! Crying whining. Sucks on thumb.
Expanded playoffs are quite possibly the worst idea ever and it’s debatable by anyone intelligent.
Lloyd Emerson
Major League baseball is very very close to becoming utterly irrelevant.
chitown311
Irrelevant? Baseball is the best sport in the world. Go back in your hole
jschwenn88
Best sport in the world? Wrong. Not even close.
baseballpun
Roller Derby!
User 4245925809
it’ll stay the best until it start’s pacifying left wing idiotry as the others all do now. Then it will have issues. NFL and NBA can flop and die for all i care.
njbirdsfan
By left wing idiotry I assume you mean those pesky little things like liberty and justice for ALL and ALL men are created equal?
Yeah, what kind of idiot wants that?
baseballpun
itsgame7.com/mlb-ratings-are-worse-than-nbas-but-n…
User 2802304835
you are dumb
Al Hirschen
New York Chiefs
Murphy NFLD
You crazy, its womens field hocky BRUH
paddyo furnichuh
Curling!
Actually….most popular sport in the world is football (soccer to Americans)
paddyo furnichuh
In the US, as far as spectator sports go, it has been NASCAR for some time.
While it is quite the competition for drivers and their team, the fact that is has been such a popular spectator sports provides an unflattering commentary on the average American viewer.
BartoloHRball
Seriously…..baseball….the best sport? Uhm…has no one heard of Cornhole?!
SDHotDawg
@paddyo875 … NASCAR is beneath you? I don’t like soccer, but I don’t feel the need to denigrate the sport or its fans.
paddyo furnichuh
@johnsilver I’m assuming you mean idiocy?
It’s always amusing when someone attempts to insults another’s intelligence and accidentally points the finger at themselves.
adc6r
Let me guess Futbol?
yewed
I’m sure the NFL and NBA are sorry for losing you. Baseball has had “issues” since it’s inception and is still around. Just like it will be long after you or I are around.
Mjshof
Heard of corn hole…Just ur mom
Nothing
My comment was directed at njbirdsfan btw
paddyo furnichuh
SdHotDawg…I denigrated the sport? I questioned it as it’s entertainment value and gave a fairly clear qualifier.
Of course, there is no accounting for taste.
That doesn’t mean I won’t poke fun at that reality. There are worse sports to watch, like bass fishing.
Yankee Clipper
NJ: you are taking the liberty of claiming Constitutional rights (freedom) and God-given equal creation to support your view of a superior sport when one has nothing to do with another.
Explain how either of those sports further the tenets of liberty and the inalienable rights of equal CREATION. It’s not equal outcome, mind you, just opportunity.
The very problem with both sides is they lay claim to these without the foundation that created them – ideologies that purport to be the solution for these tend to be the very problem because they shut down any opposing POV, which is the antithesis of freedom.
How does this relate to baseball? Baseball is the best sport because there is nothing like it. It’s history, it’s inclusivity, it’s requisite skill at levels other athletes of other sports admittedly cannot perform. Or I can just also make a truth claim and unequivocally aver it’s the epitome of freedom and equality.
its_happening
Well said Yankee Clipper.
Mjshof
Hey Yankee Clipper – don’t waste ur time with logic and facts. Watch the PC Police factor in all kinds of issues with the HOF Balloting. Will F that up too
SDHotDawg
@paddyo875 … Yes, you did. Your “unflattering commentary” opinion of their viewers said it all. My reading comprehension is pretty good, so if you meant something else …
Gwynning's Anal Lover
During the start of the pandemic they started showing Cornhole on TV. I wanted to get Covid as a result.
paddyo furnichuh
@Sdhotdawg, I would not argue that I denigrated the fans of the sport-but not the sport itself.
paddyo furnichuh
Yankee Clipper….while I obviously did not post the njbirdfan comment, it seems you are inferring from his post that aren’t too clear. Your third paragraph seems like a tangential rant against some some sort of cancel culture.
The OP doesn’t even touch on that; you’re taking the OP’s response to ” ‘neck johnsilver’s” comment about iodtry(not a word in the last few centuries) and falsely applying to a comparison to other major sports. The ‘neck honsilver made that comparison, no njbirdsfan.
But don’t let facts get in the way of your point. By trying to argue that any sport is the best sport, you show your lack solid reasoning. I teased about the quality of fan that may watch NASCAR or bass fishing. Yet I would not argue any sport is better than another sport. That is a fool’s errand.
Dan Hunter
Baseball as a sport is great.
The MLB on the other hand is dying
Vizionaire
yes, that’s exactly it!
Yankee Clipper
Dan Hunter….. you nailed it my friend! That’s exactly how to describe what’s going on.
whynot 2
Yet you and all of us spend time reading and commenting on site dedicated to trade rumors… I’m not really sure how that places the sport close to irrelevant? Please elaborate…
sodokrakheads
The MLB consistently gets better ratings than the NBA
MrMet33
So irrelevant that you taking the time to comment on a site called MLB Trade Rumors?
mcmillankmm
I don’t see it becoming irrelevant…unless you already consider hockey irrelevant…that would be the MLB’s floor
Vizionaire
at least hockey fans are crazy about the game. most mlb fans consider baseball as an entertainment.the problem is they are getting older and influx of young fans is dwindling. cutting down small town minor league teams make it worse.
SDHotDawg
@Vizionaire … Have you given the slightest thought as to why baseball is called the “Great American Pastime?” It was never meant for a bunch of people with 2-minute attention spans who seldom leave their house, demand instant gratification, and think sports should mirror the games on their X-Box.
Cambio
Hockey is far from irrelevant, unless you are in certain parts of the US. Go to Canada, Russia, Finland, Sweden.
Vizionaire
the few hockey games i have been to were at anaheim, l.a, and atlanta. the energy in the places were through the roofs.
Sideline Redwine
You’re on the wrong board, chief.
steelerbravenation
Tell that to the record setting profits before Covid hit
Oh wait owners refuse to open their books to show what they make they just want to cry poverty
Cambio
Can the writers do a poll to see what percentage of readers are in favor of the NL DH?
Misterants
It would have been interesting to have a poll done before last season and another this season. I’ve heard of quite a few who were opposed actually support it now after seeing it in play.
Personally I hate that it eliminates a huge part of the games strategy
Cambio
The strategy is usually from the 6th to 9th inning though. For the first 5 innings, we get to watch 95% of pitchers either bunt or strikeout.
smuzqwpdmx
Here’s a compromise proposal: have an NL DH that only applies to the starting pitcher. Take out the starter and your relievers have to go into the lineup. That way you get the strategy, you don’t actually get the pitchers hitting, and just maybe they have a reason to leave a starter in a while longer.
its_happening
Nonsense proposal. Hard pass. SPs are more likely wanting and willing to hit than bullpen guys. If anything you should reverse the proposal by saying a DH can be inserted once the starting pitcher is taken out of the game. Even that proposal is dumb.
Pete'sView
I’ve been dead against the DH in the NL (and the AL when it was introduced) for years. But that was in a time when many pitchers could actually hit—a very long list. Those days are over, and I have to admit that putting the ball in play (which many major league position players even fail to do very often) is more exciting than the ABs given by most current pitchers. So, after the 2020 season, I’ve become a convert. I’, okay with the DH in the NL. I”m still VERY MUCH against Manfred’s expanded playoffs, which are an embarrassment to the game.
tigerdoc616
SB Nation did just that, 2/3 in favor of the universal DH.
Steve Adams
We’ve done them multiple times in the past. First one, in 2019, was the most evenly split poll we’ve ever had on MLBTR — 50.21% no and 49.79% yes (split of 56 votes despite 13,000 respondents).
Last year 48.45% said yes to a permanent DH, 26.85% said “whatever it takes to get a 2020 season played,” and 24.7% said no DH in the NL, ever, under any circumstances.
mlbtraderumors.com/2020/05/mlbtr-poll-designated-h…
mlbtraderumors.com/2018/06/poll-national-league-de…
Cambio
Interesting. Thanks Steve.
Appalachian_Outlaw
I’d be curious what portion of which were NL and which were AL fans, but I know that’d be tough to gauge. I feel like that matters, though. NL fan here who doesn’t want it ever.
yewed
I would also love to hear the reasons why people choose what they choose.
Armaments216
Would be cool if you could somehow split out support among fans of NL teams versus MLB fans in general. Appalachian-you beat me to it.
paddyo furnichuh
Steve, thank you for the reminder on those polls
Misterants
Dh for expanded playoffs, pitch clock, and electronic strike zones??? LOL that seems a bit… lopsided
whynot 2
Personally, I am all for trying out the electronic strike zone! I think the answer is a hybrid system under which the umpire makes the final call but based on feedback from an electronic strike zone system
azbraves20
So they are out there just for show?
Guess its like me to my wife, just for show not for actual use. Self burn.
Halo11Fan
Did you miss the part about players service time?
8
Why wouldnt the MLBPA want a universal DH? Would create an opening for more players.
Misterants
They do. They’re the ones in favor. They DON’T want what mlb is offering in return: expanded playoffs, pitch clock, and electric umps
FredMcGriff for the HOF
I don’t want a NL DH but if it means getting rid of some terrible ball/strike umpires for a robo ump sign me up for the NL DH.
8
Makes sense now.
Le Grande Orangerie
Why don’t they want those thing? I do.
pustule bosey
Yeah I mean you run the mlbpa and mlb right?
Pete'sView
Actually, I’ve read that the players are in favor of the digital strike zone. Seems both pitchers AND hitters would be for obvious reasons. (Maybe catchers would see their influence—particularly framing—being diminished, but otherwise the retiring the inconsistent umpiring would be a boon for everyone.)
dabrewcrew
They do want it but at the right price.
Appalachian_Outlaw
It really doesn’t. It’s not an additional roster spot, it’s just a stupid gimmick. It doesn’t create a job, though.
It’s also only beneficial to a small portion of players who should probably just retire, anyway. I mean think if you were a SS and you had to work your tail off on hitting and in the field. Here comes the DH, takes a few hacks in the cage and then goes to get his 4ABs. You want him taking money out of your pocket for half the effort?
dshires4
I’m sorry (I’m not) but your take is just dumb. You want to eliminate the bullpen while you’re at it? After all, it’s mostly just a bunch of guys that couldn’t develop a 3rd pitch and pitch with stamina…Maybe they should have just retired, eh?
The DH quite literally would create 15 jobs. Not sure how you can say that it wouldn’t. And instead of forcing guys to retire, it would actually enhance some careers. Not everybody can be Andrelton Simmons with a glove. The Adam Dunn’s of this world will exist and they should still have a spot.
Armaments216
DH creates no jobs. 26 players per team with or without DH. Only roster expansion creates jobs.
Oddvark
@dshires4 — How many players will NL teams employ if there is a DH? How many if there is not a DH?
iml12
NL teams are putting themselves at a disadvantage. You can roster Nelson Cruz type hitter instead of light hitting defensive bench player.
Appalachian_Outlaw
I’ll simplify this for you, Dshires-
In 2019 when the AL was the only league with a DH, were they allowed one more roster spot than NL teams? Yes or no?
The DH doesn’t create job, it repurposes roles.
But please, tell me again how my take is dumb.
Halo11Fan
OK, it’s the difference between a well paying job and an incredibly well paying job.
8
If there is a DH spot players will be signed to play DH and get more money.
Hudson6
Typically the 26th man on the roster is a guy who can play legitimate CF defense and pinch run but cannot hit to save his life. He usually makes right around league minimum.
When that 26th man is a DH, he can hit very well but cannot run or play defense to save his life. He usually makes a whole lot more than league minimum.
Pete'sView
Hal McRae is the best example of this. His career would have been severely truncated due to his serious shoulder injury. But the guy could still flat out rake and did so because of the AL DH.
iverbure
The game needs less specialization not more. These absolutely ridiculous suggestions from fans like adding DH and more roster spots create even more specialization. The funny thing is these are the people that want the Sp left in longer. So you’re arguing with yourself in the mirror basically.
whynot 2
How would the DH be taking money out of the other players pocket? Both are paid based on performance. The DH hits, they get paid. The SS fields and hits, they get paid.
Oddvark
@whnot — the DH allows older players to keep playing after their defensive abilities have declined. If those players instead retired, other players who would otherwise go unsigned or remain in the minors would have the opportunity to fill those active roster spots.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Why should one guy have to work twice as hard at his craft though to get paid?
Vizionaire
but most likely with less offensive production.
Spike 13
The owners would have to agree to expand rosters, DH or no DH. They did last year, but are taking away the extra players this year.
dan55
I hope they can still work something out for a DH, but if they can’t, this is bad news for the Padres. I think they would have let Profar leave if they didn’t think that the DH would stay.
Hosmer for HOF
Yeah agreed. I was saying about Atlanta the benefit of signing Cruz then flipping him if this happened potentially for even on waivers or a slight premium with however long it took to flip.
I think there’s a similar note here about the Padres that Preller has been willing to flip whoever he wants to make this team work. Davies wasn’t even here for a full year. You wanna hope profar and cronenworth and even Seong-Kim can stay but as a Padres fan I know he’s bought these guys like stock and he’s looking to sell it for more somewhere eventually. Which ones he sell depends on how they all perform and what the competitive landscape (dodgers).
EastCoastCanuck
Dragging out the inevitable seems pointless and is very much hindering the signing of some very talented hitters.
Appalachian_Outlaw
No Universal DH.
No stupid pitch clock.
No robot strike zone.
No expanded playoffs.
I’m super, super happy!! Thank you, union! This is perfect! Please don’t cave!!!
Dbird777
Did you flip your calendar from 1974 to ’75 yet?
rememberthecoop
Of those, the only thing I DON’T like is the “stupid pitch clock” – everything else would be great for the game.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I don’t care about the pitch clock and am ok either way on the DH. I agree very strongly on no expanded playoffs. I actually like the robo-ump idea. An umpire’s mistakes shouldn’t decide the outcome of a game if there’s a better, feasible option. It should be the better team that wins, not the team the ump likes a little more or the team with a trickier catcher. It’d have to be tested, but I would love this change. I’ve seen far too much inconsistency, not just from umpire to umpire or game to game, but even pitch to pitch.
Appalachian_Outlaw
The robo ump is the least offensive thing to me, and something I could possibly come around to. I would miss the arguments over calls, though. That’s part of the fun.
Halo11Fan
I like them all but expanded playoffs. And everyone should like changes in service time rules. Holding a player down for ten games just get seven seasons vs six should be against the rules.
I understand people don’t like the DH, but don’t the DH out of it, every rule makes baseball better other than expanded playoffs.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Universal DH, don’t care either way
Pitch clock, worth trying
Robot strike zone, yes
Expanded playoffs, heck no
Most emphatic on expanded playoffs. Once upon a time the season mattered. Only one team from each division. I’m fine with current format. No need to add weaker teams that have a shot of taking down a strong team in the ridiculous best of 3 series. Best of 5 is enough of a wild card.
Halo11Fan
A Dodger fan and a Angel fan can agree on something, there is hope for the world.
James Midway
You say that one upon a time the season mattered. Did it really matter. Almost 3/4 of the teams are playing meaningless baseball from July on. That is the definition of meaningless, if you want the regular season to mean everything just watch soccer, they don’t have a playoff
rct
Here’s a mini-rant: I would support the robot strike zone, if only to make the stupid strike zone overlay that all broadcasts use now actually mean something. As it is, it’s just a meaningless graphic covering up the action (unlike, say, the first down line in football, which is both informative and ‘behind’ the action). It covers up where the catcher catches a pitch, covers up where the bat makes contact with the ball (the little dot with the mph), and it means nothing. It’s what the strikezone ‘should’ be. Only the ump’s call matters. There’s also endless down-time in baseball; show it on the replay. Further, it’s only relevant on borderline calls where the batter doesn’t swing, so what, one out of every 15-20 pitches?
I mean, I love having more information and stats, but the K Zone is completely meaningless as it doesn’t convey any relevant information when you’re watching it live. On replays for borderline calls? Sure. Why over the live action?
It’s so weird to me that in a sport with so many curmudgeons and traditionalists, no one seems to care that K Zone now dominates practically all baseball broadcasts. I guess I’m the only one who hates it, which makes me the curmudgeon. It doesn’t appear to be going anywhere, so I’ll just have to learn to love it.
iverbure
The k zone should be mandatory thing on every broadcast.
And to the people who think they know where the strike zone is, you don’t now be quiet.
SDHotDawg
The K-zone is NOT the strike zone. It’s there purely for entertainment. Fact.
iml12
These all seem like changes that would be great for baseball. Of course they can’t come to an agreement.
HappyLittleTrees
I have a hard time understanding why the universal DH hasn’t been figured out for 2021 yet. I get the politics and give and take aspect, but how can teams, especially NL teams, create a roster less than a month before spring training without knowing whether they need a DH or not?
tigerdoc616
You are asking for MLB and the MBLPA to use logic and reasoning, which get thrown out the window when it comes to money and CBA negotiations. They don’t even have a MiLB season mapped out, and spring training is in jeopardy due to COVID in Arizona right now. So just add this to the uncertainty.
Steve Adams
It hasn’t been figured out because technically, there’s nothing to figure out. The 2016-21 CBA was agreed to five years ago, and there’s nothing in there calling for a universal DH.
It’s only “not figured out” now because the league keeps dangling it as a means of trying to kickstart negotiations to get something new It was put into place last year in an effort to further reduce risk of pitcher injury amid aggressive ramp-ups to the season, and it was agreed upon as a one-off thing.
I would imagine teams are frustrated by the lack of clarity only because the league keeps telling them that they’re going to try to work something out with the MLBPA, but the ask is deemed too great each time.
iverbure
That’s why I said the mlbpa should have come out and said months ago we are not agreeing to the NL DH this year in any circumstances past a certain date. Give the teams less excuses not to spend money.
SDHotDawg
Neither side can set dates or make ultimatums until the current CBA expires.
chippahawk
grimacing through a pitcher hitting is as fun as watching flag football, mlb is shooting themselves in the feet. Cutting the market in half for some guys and the appeal isn’t helping the cash flow.
tigerdoc616
The universal DH will become a reality at some point. Both MLB and MLBPA want it. But right now being used as a bargaining chip and the players will want a lot more than the universal DH before agreeing to expanded playoffs.
stan lee the manly
You want to know how incompetence works, just look to the leadership of MLB. Letting teams make it this far through free agency without knowing if there will be a DH or not is just asinine. Do better Manfred.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
If I were commissioner, I’d have told the MLBPA at season’s end that we can negotiate for exactly 30 days on getting the NL DH in. At that time, if there’s no agreement, there’s simply no NL DH for 2021. Gives teams clarity and would be a better gage of how much owners and players each want it.
Pete'sView
And the reason it didn’t get set the way you suggest, is because the owners want expanded playoffs—a trashy tradeoff that even most fans don’t want. Expanded playoffs make the long season meaningless—except for the owners,
iverbure
Wasn’t up to the owners. Mlb pa should have set the deadline.
Rexwood
At the rate he is going, Manfred will ultimately reduce MLB to a boring, unwatchable sport. Batter steps in, steps out, adjusts gloves, steps back it, raises hand to ad for timeout. Steps back in. Ball one. Batter steps out, adjusts gloves, scratches nuts, taps bat against cleats, steps back in. Called strike. Batter walks to on deck circle for pine tar, walks back to plate, removes helmet, wipes brow, replaces helmet, steps back in. Plate umpire calls time, removes mask and sweeps off plate….you know the rest.
Josh5890
The CBA negotiations are going to be a circus at best.
I was barely hopefully that a strike/lockout would be avoided before the pandemic came up. Now it is an inevitability.
Oddvark
How do players feel about the pitch clock? I would guess that veterans don’t like the idea, but younger players who have played with a pitch clock in the minors don’t mind it.
What about electronic strike zone assistance? Do players like them because they should lead to more consistency? Or do they dislike them because they reduce the value of certain player skills?
iml12
The pitch clock is the only one I am indifferent too. The rest seem like they will make the game more enjoyable. Is there another sport that can completely eliminate massive human error?. My only gripe about the NFl is every close game seems to come down to ticky tack fouls or completely missed ones.
mlbdodgerfan2015
If you like crapshoot playoffs I guess extended playoffs is good. I don’t. I’d rather reward the teams that excelled during the 162 game season. Year in and year out, baseball playoffs is probably the most random out of the three major sports. Do we need to create more randomness?
Pete'sView
Like yesterday (when I watched too much football), when the officials in the Bills v. Chiefs game (or was it the Bucs-Packers?) that “let the players play,” but ultimately missed three major calls against the Chiefs (or Bucs) and then called a penalty on the other team. I hate seeing games like that pissed away by the officials.
mlb1225
I really don’t care if there is a universal DH or not. Just make a decision on it already. I’m more aganist the pitch clock but from everyone I’ve talked to who have went to minor league games, it doesn’t affect the experience all that much. I wouldn’t be super excited if they added it, but it wouldn’t be the end of the game for me. However, I never want to see the electronic strikezone and I never want to see them do the extra inning start a runner on 2nd rule either. That seems like taking two fundamental parts of the game away for what exactly? More offense and shorter games? If they want more offense, then they should crack down on pitchers using sticky substances on the mound and enforce their own rules. The extra inning rule only takes out those marathon games that happen maybe once or twice every month.
Josh5890
At first I was against the runner on second rule but I’ve grown to like it. I don’t mind if the implemented it in the regular season starting with the 12th or 13th inning, but not the 10th.
Also, keep it away from the postseason.
iverbure
The reason why I hate the runner on second. You bet your backside the fans who asked for it will eventually ask for it in the playoffs. That’s what these people do. You give them a inch and they take a mile. If they put it in full time the agreement needs to be set it stone, it will never ever be implemented in the postseason and if you bring it up your banned from baseball.
Rangers29
I have a few thoughts… Take away the three-batter minimum and implement a 6 bullpen arm max per game. After that you have the use position players on the mound. Move back the fences. Implement the DH in the NL. Do NOT use elctronic strike-zones. Let pitchers use substance to a certain extent. Move the mound *forward* 6 inches to exactly 60 feet. Who cares if there is a pitch clock or not, imo they should implement it because anything over 20 seconds is unnecessary. And do NOT keep the runner on 2nd in extras or move it back to the 12th.
Some simple changes, but I think they would influence less home runs and more all-around baseball. People are starting to hate the three true outcomes.
MoRivera 1999
The electronic strikezone levels the playing field. Why anyone would be opposed to consistency and fairness at the heart of the game is beyond me.
Rangers29
Controversy. Umpires cause controversy. That sounds bad, but whenever a bad call is made in a game, it. goes. viral. Everybody will talk about it for weeks, national news outlets cover it, and people see it. People don’t see any controversy from electronic umps. They are… nothing, and people don’t like nothing.
It makes the catching position less valuable. Imagine a good framing catcher who’s only good talent is framing, not be able to show his ability off. He’s just as worthless as a net. So, umps allow for a diversity of players.
Finally, tradition. Umps have been a cornerstone of the game ever since it’s conception, and the game would be different without them.
They may be more accurate, but that takes a lot away from the sport.
MoRivera 1999
Yeah, I disagree with all of that. I see games decided by ball and strike calls every week of the season. It’s horrible. If that happened to you throughout you pitching career I’ll bet you wouldn’t like it. The gimmick of framing is just that. And tradition means nothing when it produces a bad result. And I won’t even respond to your value of controversy. The only thing Robo umps take away from the sport is one huge headache at the heart of it. Otherwise, they add a lot to the enjoyment of it. Sorry. I appreciate your posts, just not this one. 🙂
Oddvark
There are a dozen bad calls on balls & strikes every game. They don’t go viral. Maybe if someone argues the call and they get kicked out of the game after kicking dirt on homeplate and breaking something in the dugout, that might get a few views. But that doesn’t happen often, and it doesn’t seem good for the game.
I get the loss-of-framing-as-a-skill argument, but it just means we will focus more on catchers abilities to throw out runners, call games, and hit.
And as I understand the version of “robot umps” that is under consideration, it would really just be electronic assistance to the umps. The umpires would still be there, ultimately making the call on balls & strikes, as well as plays at the plate, and a variety of other calls that they have to make. It really is not particularly noticeable during game play.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
I’m just beyond tired of a few terrible umps. They have been terrible for years and nothing gets done about it. It’s just like congress members having a job for life….
iml12
There would still be umps they just wouldn’t be dictating wins and losses. The catching position could use an infusion of offense. Going viral for a negative reason isn’t usually a good thing. Nfl took some massive hits in many high profile games. Almost all these games led to rule changes. I doubt they would of implemented rule changes if they were happy with the coverage.
Rangers29
Yeah, I still think umps should stay, but how about we just get better umps? Baseball has always been a very “human” game and the farthest they’ve strayed from that is the replay center. There is no clock unlike the other major sports which allows for them to have a less “human” experience as it is more clock driven. How about we keep the human element of umps, but just get better umps?
Oddvark
Is the human element that leads to bad calls a bug or a feature of baseball?
Pete'sView
At least say bye-bye to Angel H.
SDHotDawg
The electronic strike zone does NOT “level the playing field.”
Altuves Buzzer
I think 8 and 8 in the playoffs is the way to go, and then add 2 new teams, 50% make playoffs, that keeps things interesting over 162 even if your teams a perennial bubble team.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
No, just flat no. One of the things I’ve long loved about baseball is that you have to actually be good to get to the playoffs. The NBA almost always has at least one team under .500 in the playoffs. If you can’t win half your games, you don’t deserve a shot at the title.
mlb1225
The playoff expansion both hurts and helps the players. Yes, more players are making the playoffs and have a chance of winning it all, but it also incentivies teams and owners to spend less. Why spend that extra $20 million on players to help you win 90 games when you can win 85 and make the playoffs either way?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
That’s another good point. I’ve heard the arguments that there wouldn’t be as much incentive to tank, either, because it’s easier to make the playoffs, but I still believe tanking would happen. Just because 16 teams make it doesn’t mean 16 teams have a realistic shot, so I think some would do a real rebuild to actually become contenders. And other teams would still cheap out.
Oddvark
As pointed out in the article the incentives for teams/owners work the other way too. If you can win 81 games as-is but only need to improve to 85 games (rather than 90) to make the playoffs, you’ll have motivation to spend for those marginal wins.
And there are probably more teams at the fringes looking up that could spend a little more than there are top teams willing to take the risk of failing to make the playoffs by spending less.
Altuves Buzzer
Ownership still has to answer to their fan base in one way or another (with the exception of st.Louis…:they get away with not spending money consistently without from a distance at least loosing any support) and I think the teams practicing that approach may be rooted out by their base
HappyLittleTrees
see also: NFL NFC East.
Altuves Buzzer
Try having your team finish behind the Yankees and Red Sox but still have a better record then the first place central or western team…..especially thru the early 2000’s…..not a lot of fun going into the decade knowing your team has no chance. 8 teams totally opens that up. I may be deltoid but I’m a jays fan first, then a mlb fan, and I would like to know that i could look forward to a year of competitive ball year in and year out.
Altuves Buzzer
Deltoid = selfish….(?)
iverbure
So you have a problem with the divisions not the playoff format. Two leagues two divisions. That’s all you need. American League division 15 teams top 5 make playoffs. National league division top 5 make playoffs. No more worrying about the central cheap teams. They gotta compete with all the other teams.
its_happening
^This is the best comment you’ve ever made. This is a good idea. 15 teams, one division, balanced schedule. Play 10 games against each divisional rival, 12 interleague games.
Well done.
SDHotDawg
No interleague games, either. It screws up the divisional play. Otherwise, why bother with 2 leagues.
Cosmo2
50% teams making the playoffs takes all the air out of a 162 game season. Something folks who are pro expanded playoffs never consider: the best teams will have their playoff spot locked up by mid season and have little to play for. The “exciting” games at the end of the season will be played by mediocre teams trying to eke in while the top teams play out the string. It effectively eliminates the excitement of pennant races between top teams. How is that good for the sport?
James Midway
I agree 100% it makes more games meaningful
iverbure
@james midway I agree it doesn’t. Glad I change your mind.
paindonthurt
I would have thought the extra player $ from the NL DH would be enough to push this through.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Manfred and Clark couldn’t order a pizza together without there being drama and fighting.
EastCoastCanuck
Sounds like the holidays with my extended family lol
HappyLittleTrees
Even if they both liked the same toppings…..
pepenas34
I don’t mind the NL DH, but the expanded playoffs is a really bad idea.
yankees500
Can we get these two clowns out of here soon?
Rayland#1
The owners and the commissioner need to give something to get something.
whynot 2
That is called a negotiation, which is exactly what they are doing.
Dan Hunter
If you cannot play the field you do not deserve to bat.
EastCoastCanuck
Many teams are using the DH spot as a rotating position where it keeps players bat in the line up while keeping them fresh during a long season and not having to give a “Full” Day off.
I like this approach. If a player is slightly banged up, but still good to go, slide them in the DH spot for a game or two.
MoRivera 1999
If you cannot hit you do not deserve to bat.
Spike 13
The owners are going to have to up the ante and give the players a larger chunk of the TV cash from expanded playoff revenue. There has been plenty of opportunity to negotiate, however the owners are being firm in their quest to keep as much money as they can. You can’t blame either side…they’re all greedy.
njbirdsfan
Sadly a large chunk of the population thinks only the owners can never lose money and never have to pay up.
Meanwhile they work jobs and wonder why they never get a raise.
Halo11Fan
Stay firm on expanded playoffs. The pitch clock rule is pro fan.
Every other rule is pro player.
MoRivera 1999
The electronic strikezone is pro fan as well, for fans who want consistency and fairness, a level playing field among pitchers, batters, and teams.
Cap & Crunch
Agreed Mo –
And it fairly gives back the letter strike to the pitchers that will help combat launch angle, which will help combat 3 TO, which will improve fan exp as well
Spike 13
The pitch clock rule would be a concession to the TV network
Cap & Crunch
You know that kid on your block growing up whose parents should have gotten a divorce but stuck thru it for the kids …..well heres the grown up version for you now-
This is pathetic
KamKid
The idea of using grievance rulings as negotiating tools seems a little uncouth. Isn’t that up to an arbitrator?
Derek C
Why are the owners so intent on ruining the sport? Expanded playoffs and electronic strike zone are horrendous ideas. Just a complete joke.
Halo11Fan
We absolutely need a CORRECT strike zone. It’s ridiculous it’s not in place. On a good day an umpire will blow ten calls.
As for expanded playoffs, I agree.
Derek C
These are the best players in the world all its gonna do for the game is make walks and strikeouts sky rocket. Guys will figure out the strike zone too easily and either lay off everything or pitchers will find the exact corner where its un-hittable and just pepper it all game. Plus umpire player interaction is some of the best entertainment in the game. Its sad you think this is a good idea.
iml12
A consistent strike zone would make complete sense. If I was a hitter I’d be begging for one. This would likely create more offense and eliminates the worst part of any sport, human error. Some of these umpires are down right horrendous and have zero consistency. 6 inches off the plate is strike one inning and a ball the next.
tonyl
I agree that the NL DH is inevitable based on the collective performance of pitcher ABs. I’m not in favor of a pitch clock (if the pitcher doesn’t pitch in time because the batter stepped out, does the ump have to make a judgement call?… too much unnecessary complexity). Also I’m not in favor of the robot ump.
I’m generally pro-owner, but attempting to avoid sharing the TV/streaming revenue for expanded playoffs is disingenuous. Even if it’s a different %age than gate revenue, it’s still playoff-based revenue that should benefit the players. My only desire for expanded playoffs is to institute a rule that no sub-.500 team can be eligible.
Lastly, I’d love to see these 2 parties get in a room, act like adults for as long as it takes and come to agreement. I don’t appreciate the PR machine of either side that’s more interested in airing dirty laundry than negotiation progress.
Oddvark
@TonyL — the umpire already has to decide whether the batter gets time out to step out of the batters box. So if the ump grants time, the pitch clock would reset, if not, the pitcher pitches.
From what I’ve heard, there really have been issues with the pitch clock in the minors, and they’ve been using it for several years, giving them the opportunity to iron out the kinks.
MoRivera 1999
So you’re okay with ball and strike calls changing the outcome of games every damn week of the season? Brilliant.
Halo11Fan
Mo, I would wager most days a game is decided by the umpires. The difference between hitting ahead vs behind in the count is huge.
Fans wouldn’t even notice. There would be a buzzer or a ear bud, (kind of like the Astros getting their next pitch) and the umpire would react. Heck, when the Astros went to buzzers, did fans know?
If the umpire didn’t want to call a curve-ball in the dirt that caught the bottom of the strike zone, he wouldn’t have to.
MoRivera 1999
Agreed. I was just commenting in an abundance of caution when I said that bad calls determine the outcomes of games every week. You’re right. It’s every day. Also, I completely agree with your comment about bad calls producing wrong counts for pitchers and batters, and how that can greatly affect the outcome of the At Bat. It’s not just bad calls producing walks and strikeouts. It’s bad calls producing wrong counts that change the outcome of AB’s, too.
bobtillman
Expand the flipping rosters to 28, and the MLBPA will cede all the other points of contention. Neither the MLBPA nor MLB cares one hoot about DHs and pitch clocks and robo-umps (all inevitable anyway).
The extra 2 spots can be your third catcher and a utility guy, neither of which will likely be anything more than minimum wage. No more pitchers…13 is way too many as it is.
Both sides are ignoring the major problem, which of course is the super ball. 37% of ABs resulted in one of the three outcomes; it’s literally killing the sport.
CoachBlake
I’ve proposed this before, but what if the DH only lasted as long as the SP?
rowbradfo
No universal DH, no expanded playoffs, definitely no electronic strike zone, but a pitch clock would be nice.
Curveball1984
Universal DH… Ok… the rest? Pass.
Halo11Fan
I don’t understand why people hate robo-umps.
We know the outside and inside corners. So when the opposing pitcher throws a pitch off the plate and your batter takes strikes three, you go. “WOW…. I’m so glad we have bad umpires”?
It blows my mind that people don’t want games to be fair. They are not fair. It’s a fact that the strike zone changes depending on the unruliness of the crowd.
Umpires are human beings. And they don’t do a good job of calling close pitches.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Why must everything be perfect though? The human element to umpiring is part of baseball’s charm. It’s not a super offensive change to me, but I’d miss that.
MoRivera 1999
There is nothing charming about losing a game due to ball and strike calls. Nothing. It’s an utter fraud. A rip-off. And totally preventable.
SDHotDawg
Sometimes baseball isn’t “fair” or “perfect.” Neither is any other sport. Including life.
MoRivera 1999
But why wouldn’t you fix the unfairness when you can? Your argument makes no sense. Things aren’t fair, so balls and strikes shouldn’t be, either? Why would you do that?
Vizionaire
remember the left field ump that killed twins against yanks? thanks god, we have the replay though it is not even perfect. that was not fair. anyone with an eye saw it. even the ump right over the ball. he chose to call it foul. now, human error, pure error or even obligation to help certain teams surely exist and it hurts the game.
Halo11Fan
Things are not perfect. However, when person on neither team is the reason a teams whose payroll is millions and millions of dollars, that’s wrong.
A win can cost a million dollars or more. An umpire makes about 1,500 bucks a game.
I can’t believe people are advocating that such a person should be able to change the out comes of World Series winners.
Cap & Crunch
Robo Strike zone long overdue-
I sound like a broken record but the pitchers need the letter high strike back to combat launch angle
Growing up I was always taught to get on top of the ball. There was even drills on high fastballs were we were taught to hit even (line drive) or even down on the ball / Its obv way different nowadays…..
but if your taking that letter strike away your really just saying to the pitcher ” bring it on down broadway” right now the way hitters are taught to zone in . One small change can put a small dent into 3 TO
Baseball needs more line drives and groundballs than HRS
Vizionaire
many hitters and pitchers won’t have to be ejected from the game. maybe a little less fun but still a right thing.
SalaryCapMyth
I agree with an electronic strike zone too. Balls and Strikes have too often been the cause for a lost game, a significant contribution to it, or even claimed when it wasn’t. An electronic strike zone just fixes to many problems to not be considered.
James Midway
That “watered down” argument is so empty. The people say they don’t want expanded playoff are good with 60-65% of the teams playing meaningless baseball from Mid-July on. Not to mention all the teams forced to tank because they can’t compete. There isn’t 12 teams in the league anymore. If you love the regular season that much ditch the World Series and just crown the regular season winner the champ.
Halo11Fan
It’s why baseball is 162 games and not 16, or 72, or 82, You play 162 games a season to weed out the bad teams.
This is enough. I think the second wild card is one team too many.
Spike 13
162 game season came into existence when the expansion occurred in the early 60’s. Prior to that the league played a 154 game schedule. Before TV revenue, the cash came from attendance. As a kid, I skipped school and went to Red Sox games and sat in the bleachers for 50 cents. By the 2nd inning, hundreds of kids hopped the fence and sat in the grandstand. They needed 162 games to pay the bills. Knock the season back to 125 games, and expand the playoffs. Maybe there’s less TJ surgery as a result. It had nothing to do with weeding out the bad teams
Cosmo2
The “meaningless” games will instead be played by the top teams who clinched a playoff spot by the trade deadline. Expanded playoffs leads to LESS important games. Pennant races between heated rivals will be replaced by sub-.500 teams vying for the last slot. How is that MORE exciting? And no games are really meaningless, there are batting titles, awards, players chasing 40 home runs… if that doesn’t keep you interested and you can only watch games when your team is in a heated race then you don’t really like baseball that much.
SDHotDawg
Exactly. Dilute the playoffs and you dilute the game. Fire Manfred.
James Midway
They won’t be meaningless the top teams will by playing for position. I don’t understand how having more fan bases engaged and more fans be excited is a bad thing. Baltimore played for a playoff spot till near the end of the season, their fans were excited and more people watched games. I guess that’s a bad thing.
Cosmo2
But they won’t really be playing for top position… resting key players could take president over moving up one seed (a very unmeaningful move compared to getting in or not). So the two best teams clash it out in September and the winner gets the 2 seed and the loser gets the 3 seed. That’s exciting? Imagine Bucky Dents homer vs the Sox: dramatic home run to decide virtually nothing other than a slight advantage in seeding. How boring! How unclimatic! Again, the worst teams will play more meaningful games but the best will have their excitement diluted. 162 games and then half the league gets in? Ridiculous.
Vizionaire
pirates and orioles may not even have to play a game to determine whether they are out of it. still, it is fun watching the games played even by them. it’s because it is a game that i have loved for 60 years.
number1dodger
Heck why don’t we just have 28 team play off.
ChiSoxCity
Electronic strikezone and universal DH are no brainers—both the players and MLB gain from this. The other issues are irrelevant or immaterial since they don’t improve the game at all.
A pitching clock will only degrade the quality of the game by hindering strategy and helping base runners.
The expanded playoffs will just reward mediocrity (as well as ensuring the Yankees/Red Sox get in every year no matter what). Nobody wants .500 and sub .500 teams in the postseason (this ain’t the NBA).
Focus on making the game better, as opposed to simply making more money. If you want more playoff games, add more teams (Nashville, Las Vegas, San Antonio, Montreal, Vancouver, etc.).
SDHotDawg
Universal DH? NBA/NHL style “playoffs?” Pitch clock? Electronic strike zones?
FIRE MANFRED. It’s obvious he’s not a baseball fan.
exrobinsoncanofan
No matter what happens, at least we know Manfred will get it wrong.
morritl
I personally don’t think this is a large ask from the owners for this year only. Players make 100% salary for 162 games plus get a portion of expanded playoffs. Fan revenue will be down considerably this year. Then during the CBA is when this should be negotiated for permanent use. The electronic zone only looks like is for spring training.
its_happening
Be careful what you wish for. Most of you will hate the electronic strike zone when implemented. The re-introduction to the 12-6 curve will be in full effect when the ump has to call that strike in the dirt. Hitters will have no idea what hit them and you will complain. Hitters will adjust by adding more body armor because, well, it’s cheating and allowed.
MLB probably should have entertained expansion to 32 teams. That would have solved the money debate, albeit temporarily. Also would have added 52 more jobs and 1 DH. Perhaps for 2022 and not 2021. Still, extra cash flow.
MLBPA trying to bite more than they can chew with the service time. It’s an issue that is certainly important. However, this should have been tabled for the next meeting.
Also with the state of Arizona playing hardball with hardball at Spring Training, if I am the teams in Arizona I find a temporary home in Florida for spring. If Zona doesn’t want them, Florida will welcome them. Have at it. Time to get Kissimmee, Winter Haven, Baseball City, Joe Tinker all back up and running.
Halo11Fan
Yes, you have a point on the 12-6 curveball, let the umpire overrule.
On the very few strikes that hit the strike zone and the dirt, give the umpire the ability to not call a strike. The person in the press box who puts the strike on the scoreboard will not know if the umpire is buzzed or not.
its_happening
Halo one of the great new features with slow motion camera work is the side angle showing the way the bat bends during the swing and how it reacts on impact.
That same angle is used on check swings. I noticed certain pitches crossing the knees and crossing the plate, landing in the dirt. Technically, that would be a strike based on the rule. If the electronic zone comes into play it will really tick off hitters and fans. It would be scrapped since no pitcher is allowed any advantage in major league baseball unless it’s a front row seat in Dr Andrews’ lobby.
JimmyTheC
At this point Manfred and Clark can’t even agree on what are the ingredients of a BLT.
MetsFan22
It’s so obvious they don’t want us to succeed. I guess they don’t think the Mets roster is fair…
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Go home, you’re drunk. That homerism didn’t even make sense.
Fat Cat
The owners and players are acting like young children. Literally. And this happens every time there is any kind of labor dispute or negotiation going on. Like a child that knows that he will not get dessert until he finishes his vegetables, yet every night will cry at the dinner table for 20 minutes until mom picks up his plate and sends him to bed without dessert. The child, thinking “oh, mom’s serious this time!” will then eat his vegetables immediately so he can get his dessert. This is what the players and owners do. Instead of hammering out all their nonsense well in advance, they drag their feet for weeks and months, the equivalent of crying at the dinner table every night. While they cry, the fans keep voicing their frustrations but both sides still won’t eat their vegetables until they both realize how bad they look and what a PR disaster they’ve caused and are thinking “oh, the fans are serious this time!” and immediately have a sense of urgency which should have been there the whole time. And this happens EVERY time during any sort of labor dispute they have. My message to the owners and players (not that they’d listen) is this: After the 2021 season is over and before the current CBA officially expires – eat your damn vegetables!
nentwigs
What is this POLITICS??
Let the proposed Universal DH be evaluated on it’s own merits.
Don’t be tying it to other BS issues.
Sideline Redwine
Politics. The league trying to force that down baseball’s throat is an ugly display. We don’t want that. If people want timed plays they can go watch the national field goal league. Plenty of us like the way the game unfolds.
troll
glad that dh/playoff decision was finally made
semut
It’s worth pointing out that a pitch clock has ALWAYS existed in the MLB rulebook. Technically pitchers have 30 seconds to throw a pitch from the time they get the ball or it’s an automatic ball. Of course, there’s a lot of caveat to enforcing it: pitchers stepping off, checking runners, etc
But I wish writers would stop acting like it’s a new idea being floated
respectedbubble
The MLB needs to get with the times and do right by the fans!!
JoeBrady
Don’t worry, both sides want to do right by the fans. There is no question about that.
The issue is divvying up the money. I’m an agnostic on the owner/player negotiations. But the expanded playoffs is the biggest chip, by far, that the players have. My opening bid would not one dime less than 50% of the marginal revenues.
But more likely, I would make it a 2022 CBA issue. The owners have owned the internet issues, but the players own the expanded playoff issue. If I were a player, I wouldn’t give it up unless I was well paid for it.
Darthyen
Damn so close on expanded playoffs but yet so far…Waited 40 years for it til last year hope it ain’t 30+ again.
It was a big hit last year so I don’t see why this is not a no brainer and just get it done.
LABeachguy
Interesting that the players are against the automated strike zone. I’m tired of pitch framing become how balls and strikes are called. Look back at the 70s and 80s game. The umpire would be calling the pitch as soon as it crossed the plate. Most of new rules recently and the ones being talked about I am against. But yes on automatic strike zone. Should speed up the game as well.
JoeBrady
Are the players really against it, or do they want to get paid to give in? I like he work I do, but if you want something from me, you have to pay.
Vizionaire
READ?
pcwizblue
I am a umpire and I understand that a digital umpire is in the near future. All this means for me is that I will become a statistician in the near future so that I can stay in the game that I fell in love with as a kid.
I am an old school fan and like the NL rule of no “DH”. With that being said I understand that change is inevitable. I did enjoy the extra inning games with a runner on second base and the doubleheader format of a seven and nine inning games. Also, hopefully the players and owners game come to a reasonable agreement at some time in the near future.
sufferforsnakes
Dump the DH and stick electronic umpiring up your arse, Manfred.
breckdog
Players want the Dh, owners want the Dh. Owners want the players to give them something for the Dh. Makes no sense to me, just do it already. Owners want expanded playoffs, players take a pay cut only getting gate revenue. Owners want a pitch clock and a trial run in spring training of an electronic strike zone. Offer is ruling on two grievances in players favor and an extra 30 million split by the players.
Basically it is 30 million a year, two grievance rulings for the dh, expanded playoffs and a pitch clock and some trial rules changes. Seems like both sides are in agreement on dh so that should be separated and these other issues bargained for.
SDHotDawg
Players “want” the DH as a career extender. The MLBPA wants the DH because that’s 30 more ML contracts from which to collect dues. Owners only “want the DH because Manfred told them “surveys say” fans want more offense and faster games. What he’s not telling the owners, because he’s too dumb to interpret his own data, is that a large percentage of those 20-somethings surveyed aren’t even (and never were) actual baseball fans.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Exactly. Baseball isn’t a game everyone enjoys, and that’s ok. You reinvent it and maybe you might gain a few new viewers, but will it offset what you lose?
If they want to grow the game you start by making it more affordable for children to play, not by turning it into pinball baseball. When every game becomes 8-6 scores, they’ll get bored of that, too.
SDHotDawg
Fans got bored with those games in the 90’s during the steroid era. Manfred must have missed those surveys and the decline in attendance and TV ratings. Even my wife hates those 10-8 games where all the runs come on HRs. THAT is boring baseball.
expos771
leave baseball alone
no electronic strikes zones
no pitch clock
no dh in nl
what about last year 3 batters for 1 reliver wtf
this rules make baseball less strategic an a nightmare ti watch a reliver blow. a game when is stuff not right ???
jorge78
But don’t you need that extra expensive player to WIN in the playoffs?
RobM
The MLBPA holds the cards on this one. The owners want expanded playoffs. They’re already sold the broadcast rights. The Universal DH is a very minor give from owners to the MLBPA. No way will the players give the owners all that revenue in exchange for the Universal DH, especially since MLB wants it too. MLB should come to the table with a minor ask for the Universal DH, not a major one as they’re doing here. That would be a sign of good faith, which will then allow them to move on to bigger issues.
SDHotDawg
The ONLY reason the owners want expanded playoffs is to make more money. They couldn’t care less if it dilutes the game.
jorge78
Yea, “traditionalists” want that extra batter with the .302 OPS in 2019!!?? Pitchers can’t even bunt anymore! SMH…..
SDHotDawg
That’s not a problem with the game, that’s a problem with player development.
jd396
In other words… We both want it, but we don’t like each other because we have the social-emotional constitution of toddlers, so we refuse to give in unless we can have it perceived as a conclusive victory for just our side.
SalaryCapMyth
LOL! Completely agree. Both sides have created this inability to work with each other and now they can’t even agree on the DH which they both should want.
jkurk_22
The answer to all of this mess is: yes to universal DH, no to expanded postseason, no to pitch clock, and yes to electronic strike zones. You’re welcome mlb and players union. I got you. Sincerely fans
Spare Tire Dixon
It’s pretty ridiculous that this DH thing couldn’t be handled the day free agency started.
PutPeteinthehall
Agreed. Not fair. It’s a shame. For a grievance issue to be tied to this is a bunch of crap. Any grievance should be decided in its merits only. Not part of a so called blanket deal.
Altuves Buzzer
Hopefully the universal DH will have a provision that allows pitchers to hit if a team likes, as a starter, who can later be made a DH. Would hate to think we would never have another Ohtani situation again….but still need the universal DH…..
Disagreeing with the universal DH is a little like thinking hockey hasn’t been real since the goalies started wearing face mask’s or players wearing helmets…..it’s not about history, it’s safety plan and simple
MarlinsFanBase
I think the comparable is more along the lines of a DH/pitcher combo being like football where players are dominantly playing more on offense or defense.
SDHotDawg
We don’t “need” thd DH.
MarlinsFanBase
They seriously need to figure this out.
rockofloveusa
dont speck for MarlinsFanBase
no dh allow
not marlins fan if want dh
you just jeter /yank fan
Yep it is
This is why the young generation could care less about this sport. What a joke the Commish is and the Players Association have become. They act like they are still relevant in sports.
Questionable_Source
Give us the automated strike zone immediately. The fact that we actually have stats to measure the level of the umpire’s incompetence based upon who’s playing catcher is sickening. The technology is there, let’s use it.
drasco036
The league and the players need to figure this out, expand the playoffs again for next year so owners can re-cap some of their money in exchange for the universal DH from here forward. Then the players can negotiate the expanded playoff format during the CBA.
Lets be completely honest here, the players right now are only hurting themselves… IF they would agree to these terms, teams may open their wallets a little bit more (St. Louis, Chicago, Cincinnati) because they would bring in a little more income AND it open up roster spots for guys like Cruz, Rosario, Ozuna etc.
Clark and the players are squabbling over what equates to nothing for the majority of the players but we are only a couple weeks away from spring training and quality free agents are still without job prospects… so much so Tanaka could likely be going back to Japan.
I’m sorry but the players union looks really really stupid right now
TradeRumorUser
expanded playoffs all for the sake of more revenue! baseball had just come about the money beyond expensive to go a game and even afford to eat at one. they don’t care about more teams making it just more money
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Who is the Beavis who decided the game needed to be changed, anyways?
DrinkUpChopOn
I’m good with the DH in the NL. No expanded playoffs. C’mon MLB. Get it done already.
Redstitch108* 2
Heck yeah to DH in NL. Okaaaaaay to expanded playoffs. No freakin way to robo umps or pitch clocks. I for one like the human element to the strike zone. Too bad the instant replay is here to stay…I’d like to scrap that too.
rockofloveusa
Rob Manfred dont get it.. mlb suck last year 2020.
dh ki;; the game. in nl. boston and yanks games last for ever. only two team with pace of speed . i dont mind 2:45 games been doing it sent 89 . 3:15 yes
checker + dh
chess+ no dh
it bad to force it on nl fan who love pitcher hitting
Metafisical
I think many like the human element to the game… until it works against their team in a crucial game in the bottom of the 9th. I support any use of technology that makes sure the right call is made and not one that is influenced by personal biases or the environment. While I am unsure about pitch clocks, I am fully onboard with robo umps and still support instant replay.
TheLawAbides
The people that like baseball, love baseball. It’s a game that’s been around for so long but now they’re needing to change the game that people love for more money? Let’s just eliminate playing defense all together that’s what it feels like when you eliminate the shift than add more DH players that can’t field the ball.
TheLawAbides
The people that like baseball, love baseball. It’s a game that’s been around for so long but now they’re needing to change the game that people love for more money? Let’s just eliminate playing defense all together that’s what it feels like when you eliminate the shift than add more DH players that can’t field the ball.
Spare Tire Dixon
If the Braves either can’t afford Ozuna or get tired of waiting on the DH decision, I wonder if they could go after Lourdes Gurriel. Toronto has Springer, Hernandez, and Grichuk now, so maybe the right package of young pieces could pry Gurriel away to Atlanta’s LF spot.