The Reds and Nationals are known to have discussed a possible deal around third baseman Eugenio Suarez, and the failure to complete a deal seems to hinge on the Nats’ unwillingness to part with top pitching prospects Jackson Rutledge and Cade Cavalli, per MLB Insider Jon Heyman (via Twitter). Rutledge and Cavalli were the Nats’ top draft choices in the past two drafts. It’s not a surprise that Washington would hold on tight, as their system isn’t known for tremendous depth, and they traditionally value starting pitching. Besides, ace Max Scherzer will be a free agent after this season, and at some point, the Nats will need to graduate top pitching talent in order to maintain the standard they have set in the rotation. Any deal with the Nats would probably have to center on Carter Kieboom. If the Reds believe in Kieboom’s ability to play shortstop, he would make sense as a starting point for a deal.
The Reds seem more open to the idea of moving Mike Moustakas or Nicholas Castellanos, but neither has generated as much trade interest as Suarez, tweets Heyman. Despite an uninspired 104 wRC+ in 2020, Suarez remains the Reds’ most-compelling bat. A .214 BABIP was down by almost 100 points from his career average, and a shoulder injury might have slowed his production. His 29.0 percent strikeout rate is a touch high, but Suarez still boasts patience (13.0 percent walk rate) and power (.268 isolated power), as well as long-term control on a reasonable contract. The 29-year-old Suarez will make $10.79MM in 2021 before three years at $11.29MM and a $15MM club option in 2025. Relative to Moustakas (three years, $16MM AAV with club option) and Castellanos (three years, $15.3MM AAV with mutual option), Suarez’s deal looks like a bargain, and he’ll be just 33-years-old at the end of the 2024 season.
The most likely place for the Reds to add from outside the organization remains shortstop, as their 2021 starting shortstop doesn’t appear to be on the 40-man roster at present, writes the Athletic’s C. Trent Rosecrans. The organization clearly does not view Senzel as an option there, and Jose Garcia likely needs more the in the minors after being rushed into action in 2020. That could mean trading for a shortstop, but with so many options still available on the market – Marcus Semien, Andrelton Simmons, Freddy Galvis, Didi Gregorius – free agency remains their likeliest route to add an infielder.
gee, the Reds want to move the inferior players that provide less value and less people want them. who could have expected this.
Build the team; dump the team. This Reds front office does not have a plan.
In short, a long season for Reds fans. Should bring back Puig just for entertainment value!
That’s strange. I heard the rays were more open to moving kk then Snell. And the Cubs are more open to moving Heyward then Contreras.
Nats should keep the pitching prospects and trade for Bryant. The Cubs will only want new uniforms and a hot dog vendor just to get the salary relief .
The Nationals want the long term controllability that comes with Suarez. Bryant is a free agent after this season and thus has a lot of uncertainty
Trading minor league prospects for guys like Bryant with 1 year deals. When there are multiple spots on the roster that need to be filled. Thanks but no thanks.
Wow they have some atrocious contracts.
It seems like most big contracts are atrocious.
The issue with these big contracts is that they aren’t designed to be good in the long term. The teams knows they will be cancerous, but they are willing to overpay for an old player for 3 or 4 years to get a great player for 3 or 4 years. Ideally teams would just double the AAV on these guys for shorter contracts, but the luxury tax keeps that from happening. Just look at a $200 mil over 8 years as $200 mil over 4 years, but they are manipulating the contract to stay under luxury tax and have to keep him around for another 4 years.
I can’t thing of many big contracts that look good after 3 months
Scherzer and Kershaw were well worth it. Trout’s deal looks great for the Angels so far. Gerrit Cole has so far been very good, even if not *quite* as good as 2019. Verlander has been worth his deal. I’ll agree that some, like Prince Fielder, Pujols, A-Rod, and Cano, didn’t pan out, but even there, those contracts looked good 3 months in. Fielder had a 151 OPS+ his first year of that deal, Pujols had an OPS+ of 138 and garnered some down-ballot MVP votes.
So overall, while a number of them don’t work out in the end, there are some that the teams don’t regret and a significant number that look for at least the first year.
Pujols cano never looked like good contracts. Every baseball person I knew laughed at the time. Arod 1 was great. 2 not so much. Votto wasn’t smart. But Miggy ellsberry sale are some of the worst what were they thinking deals that come to mind. Harper and Machado were great deals but the pandemic killed their major surplus. Arenado wasnt smart. Yelich 2 was bad idea. Most are terrible. I loved Harper. Ok with Machado. I wouldn’t have paid cole that much but if anyone can stay healthy and be good I would bet on him. Kershaw wasn’t super long. And grienke was a good contract.
I hate 99 percent of them after 3 seconds.
Thanks for pointing out the very obvious. Why do you post?
Thanks for criticizing and saying nothing constructive. Why do you post?
Oh goody, an article concerning Eduardo Suarez.
Can someone please say something complimentary about Suarez so we can watch LaughingAtYou go ballistic ?
Thanks.
It’s Eugene not Edward.
Its Eugenio, not Eugene and definitely not Edward
Its is it’s, not its.
It’s=It is
Its=Ownership/Belongs to
Glad someone kindly corrected the corrector, which as always is a favored read.
This post acts as a reminder not to swing for the fences with your eyes closed.
Nothing about trading pitching? What happened to those earlier reports claiming they were discussing Gray and Castillo?
I would guess that talking about Moustakas and Castellanos includes Gray and Castillo.
Good lord I hope not ! If they trade away Gray or Castillo in a salary dump of Moose or Castellanos- the Reds ownership needs to be ran out of baseball!
How else are they going to trade Moose or Castellanos? I think it could be part of a deal and they should still get really good talent back in those trades. Although the Darvish and Lindor/Carrasco trades have made me wonder how much one could expect back when shipping out salary. Even when it’s not bad money.
Then what would you do to the Cubs for what they’re doing? They basically gave away Darvish.
They just keep em both. They are both decent in their own right and reds signed em to those deals so pay em the money without selling off other assets that your franchise needs. Trade your assets that have value for future assets or keep this team and make a run for it next year. May only take 70 wins to claim the NL central
For sure they should run the team back out there if they can and even supplement it. Can they though? Some signs that they might not be able to. Castillo is worth a fortune in trade even if you ask a team to take one of those bad contracts with him. You’d still get back a lot to help restock talent as well as shed the financial commitment.
I suppose. In other words, if you want one of their pitchers – especially Castillo, whom I don’t feel will be traded – you have to take back a bad contract. Makes sense.
The Red’s major problem is Votto’s contract. Around 25 million a year and very little production.. Add the bad contracts of Moose and Castellanos and you are up to around 60 million per year for sup par production.. The Reds and most other teams can’t overcome that.. It may be 2024 before the Reds can come up for air. The root cause is management.
Hadn’t thought of that @kamkid. Good take. Makes complete sense.
Nats will regret this. Keiboom, one of those 2 pitchers and a teenage light commodity would have got them Suarez and his super friendly long term deal. He’s WAY better than either guy they brought in and as the article states, Scherzer will be a FA next season. Yet the Nationals are on the hook paying him 15 mil a season for next 1/2 a decade! Nats should be going all in this season!
if Harper would have chose Nationals- he would have taken a similar deal that would pay him 8 figures plus well past the contract expiration. I get it in the moment why Nationals do these deals but that’s really got to hamper their ability to spend moving forward having those funds (cap exempt) committed to a player not on their roster.
The Nats need to hold on to Cavali and Rutledge because they have high upside and want to develop a pitcher. Plus they traded giolito and Luzardo but at least those trades helped them win the WS.
What would a Matt Chapman deal to nats look like, could they get all 3 of keiboom, cavalier, Rutledge? Chapman is younger than Suarez, currently cheaper since 1st yr of arby, although coming off injury
I dont think they would do it because rizzo prefers pitching over hitters and chapman is coming of a big surgery
The long term contract terms for Scherzer dont mean squat when you have a WS flag flying forever. Because #37 in part made it happen. The way he and Eaton turned around that clubhouse was nothing short of Mission Accomplished.
Want a 3B who avg’d 40 hrs/ .900+ OPS in ’18-19 on a friendly deal the next 5 years? Give up dat pitching.
I love Rutledge’s stuff. He is one of the most underrated prospects out there, and if he was traded for Suarez (which 1v1 is almost fair), it’d be a terrific deal for either side. Expect a Kieboom headliner if Suarez is traded though.
Yeah, I’d rather have at least one of their top two arms over Kieboom tbh. We have a couple of Top 10 prospects at 3B, while Sonny and Castillo have 3 more years here and we’ll need more than just relying on Greene and Lodolo to replace if we lose both.
You can keep Suarez then. Nats have either Castro and Kieboom to play 3B, and have multiple spots in the starting rotation and bullpen to fill. Recipe for trouble trading pitching prospects when Scherzer’s deal ends in 2021. And Strasburg is Strasburg is Strasburg.
Trade Idea:
Reds trade: Castellanos, Tony Santillan, and Riley O’Brien
Rangers trade: Willie Calhoun
BTV says this is extremely great for the Reds, but I don’t see it that way. Yes, the Rangers would eat all of Casty’s contract, but he would boost up our lineup and the additions of the two pitching prospects would deepen our farm even more. The Reds get Calhoun who has 40 homer potential and is still only 26. He could be a big bat in that lineup. Fair?
Reds would do that in a 1/2 a heartbeat.
Cast contract isn’t too terrible. He’s a great bounceback candidate
Interesting offer. You’ve clearly done your homework, as well, but two points:
1: The Rangers backed out of the Casty bidding a year ago, so it kind of raises an eyebrow to believe they’re willing to take on that contract now and give up a guy who can be forgiven for a bad COVID year? Willie is just the kind of player the Reds do like to acquire though, in that Duvall/Suarez mode, so good catch there, also.
2: After Hunter and Lodolo, the Reds are pretty thin on pitching in the minors. Not that it’s stopped us from giving guys like Moss and Gray away the last few years, I’d be troubled if our FO is that lacking in awareness to give away more.
I know they are lacking pitching depth, so I tried to choose some higher upside guys rather than high floor guys like Lodolo and Greene. The highest floor guy I chose is obviously Santillan, but he is essentially the headliner in this deal. And, the fact that they give up all of that Castellanos contract is what makes this good for them. I don’t care how good the prospects are that they give up, freeing up that money is sooo good for that club. Both teams win big imo.
Jose Garcia will be reds SS next season. No way they sign a big name considering what they have let go this year. They need to show some competence and unload Suarez, Grey and castillo for quality returns. Restock farm via trade and 4 top draft picks they have coming up. Build a young team with new names as Greene/Lodolo take over the rotation. They just went through the most embarrassing rebuild in baseball history- time to step it up !
Lol, Garcia’s not going to be our SS. We like him, but he hasn’t played above A-ball until this year. He’s going back down for at least a year, probably two..
We’re not in rebuild mode, just cost-cutting. SS is the only hole in our lineup and we’ll fill that in FA. Adding Hunter/Lodolo to the rotation in a year or two and we’re looking good
Agree. the Reds have too much money on the books to completely rebuild by giving Garcia 500 ABs next year. Simmons makes the most sense, since they can probably get him on a 1 year deal.
They better rebuild. Bauer was their best player by far and he’s gone. Disco was very good prior to 20 he’s gone and so are their best 2 relief arms. They were a fringe playoff team last year and only chance this year is will be to win the central. Also, Bell is THE worst manager in baseball too! Lot to overcome! Better off blowing it up and starting over.
Been a Reds fan a long long time. Not this season though. I’ll root for a team with competent ownership and an actual plan for success like the padres
Bauer was not the best player by far. His numbers did edge out the others, but Gray was looking like the ace of the staff until he had an injury 1.94 ERA through the month of Aug, He gave up 5 runs, then 6 runs, and was giving a 12 day break. He came back with 2 solid starts to end the year with a 3.70 ERA. Long and Short, Bauer had a better season, but until the injury Gray was as good or better.
“Been a reds fan for a long time, not this season though”
Bc you’re not an actual fan so your worthless opinion is irrelevant, run along cuck.
Reds should take Kieboom, Joe Ross and a top 10 prospect so WSH can eat the remaining $ on the Suarez contract. Reds can use the savings on a starting SS.
We’ve already cleared $20 million of payroll this year and don’t need to move his contract, as it’s very team-friendly. We’re just listening to offers. And it would take a lot more than that one.
Nats Get: Suarez
Reds Get: Kieboom, Voth or Fedde, and Tim Cate
Not bad, Luc. I think you may get flack from Reds fans because they will look at what he did with the bat and not think about the glove because it isn’t good. The best realistic projection of Suarez is that he is a 4 WAR player. That’s really good but it isn’t elite.
Thx man im a Nats fan and I want to contend. I want to believe in Kieboom but what he’s shown is not promising
I’m a Braves fan. The Nationals absolutely should compete. I don’t buy into last seasons 60 games as any kind of serious analysis of Washington. I’ve seen them start slow and then go through a large stretch where they win 30 out of 45 games or whatever.
I even think the regular season ended just as the Nationals were bouncing back because they had won 9 out of their last 14 and if you narrow in even more, 7 out of their last 9.
Yeah we were on a tear. I think it because our top 3 pitchers didnt have ST and they have a routine especially Strasburg. Good luck I hope were a WC team at least. Battle between Acuna vs Soto
NL East should be a fun division to watch. Fun rivalries. Good luck to yours as well.
If the Reds didn’t completely jump the gun by 2 years they would be in a position to absolutely dominate the central for the foreseeable future.
Castillo and Suarez for those two prospects plus
I like the aggression. I made a Suarez/Castillo proposal today on a Reds sub today, as well, but to the Yankees for Vizcaino/Dominguez. I know you’d probably have to pry the latter from the Yanks’ cold, dead fingers, but that offer would certainly make them think..
As for the Nats, it’d definitely be fair to ask for both top pitchers for both Suarez and Castillo. I doubt they do it, given how much they value pitching in that org. From my Reds perspective, I’d have to have both in that deal, though.
Luv 2 that deal is reasonable for Both sides.
Prospect cost for Suarez is too high for the Nats. How about Reds get Kieboom for Moustakas and Michael Lorenzen (starter/reliever in his final arb year)?
When I look at CIN and CLE both attempting to sell everything to the walls it suggests both organizations are in dire financial straits. If that’s the case why wouldn’t ownership put their respective teams up for sale? They’d both make a killing and walk away with a huge profit. It literally makes no sense for them to stay in the game IF things are that bad for them financially.
My take is they still expect a lot of long term profit from holding on to the teams. They’re just trying to weather their short term cash flow issues right now with no attendance revenue on the immediate horizon.
Any jays fans here I want to see your offers/ opinions of a Castillo/Gray and Moose trade to the blue jays.
I’ll be your huckleberry.
Gray and Moustakas for Kirk, Roark and Stripling.
Castillo and Moustakas for Kirk, SWR, Groshans and Kay.
If the Reds want to sprinkle Akiyama, cool.
Another risky option:
Castillo, Gray, Moustakas, Castellanos and Akiyama for Teoscar, Groshans SWR, Kirk and Roark.
These are all out-to-lunch proposals. But quite fun.
I enjoy hearing others opinions and proposals. I seem to get too attached to prospects and get very biased on trade proposals so it’s good to hear others!
The one prospect I think needs to be untouchable or the closest to it would be SWR. I think the ceiling is massive with him and won’t want to see him go!
I hear you. I’d be fine with Gray. I’m not overly concerned over the lack of success in NYY. He is an obvious upgrade over whoever the #5 is plus Moustakas is an upgrade at 3B and lengthens an already potent lineup. I like the first proposal.
Lineup:
Biggio
Bichette
Gurriel
Vlad
Tellez
Teoscar
Moustakas
Grichuk
Jansen
Castillo and Moose for Groshans, Kirk, Manoah, any one of Hatch/Thornton/Kay/Zeuch/Murphy, plus some lower tier prospects or major league role players to fill in organizational needs. You get the ceiling in Groshans, the floor in the pitcher of your choice, a combination of floor and ceiling in Kirk who can hit major league pitching but still needs to learn the finer points of catching at the higher level. Sprinkle in a couple more pieces.
I have a feeling Castillo would cost a lot in terms of prospects. I do like Manoah a lot as well but would rather keep SWR over him.
Castillo, Moose and Garrett for Groshans, Manoah, Pardinho and Kay
Reds have not won a playoff round since 1995. Only the Bengals and Lions have longer streaks in NFL/MLB/NHL/NBA.
Good time to start over.
They had 14 runners in scoring position against the Braves in first round and the CY Young winner.
The Reds had Bauer, Castillo, Gray.
I would have kept my team!
It is all about money not competing.
They had 14 runners in scoring position against the Braves in first round and the CY Young winner.
The Reds had Bauer, Castillo, Gray.
I would have kept my team!
It is all about money not competing.
I feel bad for Reds fans. Bauer, Gray Castillo was one of the best rotations in baseball and probably the best the Reds have had in a long time. Maybe they had a better rotation at some point during Cueto’s time in Cincinnati?
I’ll let a Reds fan inform me if that’s the case or not but it would have been nice to see a team like the Reds that behave like a small market team, decide to resign Bauer and not make 2020 just a one-off/all-in sort of season. Granted, Bauer might be difficult to sign for even LARGE market teams but instead of looking for cheaper but still viable alternatives, Tanakah maybe, instead they look like they are just going to take it all down.
Offseason still has all the top talent as well as Tanakah left on it, so maybe they will try and compete but those Suarez and Gray rumours aren’t very encouraging.
This was always the problem with the game plan. They signed Moose and Castallenos, and added Bauer, for a one-year run. With $58M/year due to Moose, Castellanos, and Votto, in return for about -0- WAR, they weren’t going to be able to afford Bauer. And trading Gray & Downs for Puig was a pathetic waste of resources.
As crazy as it sounds, tearing down the team, after a one-year window of contention, is the best path moving forward. They still have some young talent, and a decent farm. Trading Castillo, Gray, and Saurez, plus a couple of BP arms, like Lorenzen, Amir, and Sims, would net them a king’s ransom. Just by my rough calculations, Castillo has to be worth as much as Snell, Suarez at least as much as Lindor, and Gray about ballpark worth Darvish.
The rebuild would be set back two years, but assuming that the FO made no other stupid trades, you’d have a farm worthy of the LAD or SDP.
Blue Jays need to send Vlad Jr. and 2 or 3 prospects to Cincinnati for Suarez, Castillo and Gray. Take Votto’s contract if Cincy needs a sweetener. Total cost in $$$ is cheaper than Trevor Bauer and you fill at least 3 major needs. Cincy gets all the money off the books except Moustakas and Castellanos ….. All ready to rebuild now. Vlad can spend the next couple of years proving he can’t field 3rd Base or 1st base and can transition to DH which should be in the NL by then.
I’d trade Vladdy for that return
Just say no to Simba at shortstop. The Reds don’t need a quitter on their team, especially after Simmons played through a majority of the season and all of a sudden got “scared of COVID” when they Angels refused to negotiate a contract extension.
Moustakas and Castellanos signed four year big money deals that no one would have signed them to and now the Reds are trying to unload them in trades. Unless they are willing to kick in a large portion of cash they are not likely to move either player.
Hello TC,
Would you don’t mind to fix the grammer between ‘needs more” & ‘”in the minors”? Please & thank you.
“The organization clearly does not view Senzel as an option there, and Jose Garcia likely needs more ‘the’ in the minors after being rushed into action in 2020”.
Your grammar needs fixing too. *shrug*
The Reds seem more open to the idea of moving Mike Moustakas or Nicholas Castellanos,
————————————————————————-
Either the writer added this for no particular reason, or the Reds FO is insane. It’s like saying I am open to buying a winning lottery ticket.
It’s a shame. The Reds looked like they were putting together a nice squad. Winker, Senzel and their outfield needed to step up, but it looked like their pitching staff was solid and had a dangerous middle of the order.
Suarez, Barnhart and Gray to the Mets.
Mets send JD Davis, Nido, a prospect arm and cash to the Reds with Familia and Betances. Lots of cash.
I like Davis, but for getting Suarez’ defense, another catcher and Gray? Depends how bad the Reds want to unload payroll.
Part of me wants the White Sox to go all-in like the Padres have done. Vaughn for Castillo (not full deal, but rough framework), then sign Cruz. Of course, if I owned the Sox, I’d have made a nice offer to Springer instead of Eaton and hopefully have signed him. I know Reinsdorf won’t do it because he’s cheap (and it may not be the right call to move Vaughn+ for Castillo), but that team would become the best team in the AL and could at least make a series of it with the Dodgers or Padres if they got that far.
I think it pretty obvious the Reds are not in firesale mode. The Pads would have swooped in on Gray and Castillo if they could have picked them up for what the picked up Darvish and Snell. Also Suarez would be easy to move to, if Salary reduction was their only motivation. It seems more like they are fishing with their players with the best trade value to see if they can reel in a big one.
I agree with this. You do not really know how things would have played out over a full season last year. Chances are Castellanos turns in a typical year for him and Suarez reverts back to form. The team had gotten hot at the end of the season. I didn’t really view moving Iglesias as that big of a deal as they have Garrett or Sims whom either one could close. I never figured they could resign Bauer anyway and no way were they going to trade for Lindor with him being a free agent in a year’s time. My guess is they use the money from the Iglesias deal and sign a SS (Simien?) which was a weak spot last year.
The Blue Jays should be all over Suarez. Great player with a fantastic contract.
Castillo and Castellanos for Alex Kirilloff plus two other prospects
While the Twins would probably love to add Castillo why would they want Castellanos when they could re-sign Cruz for less?
Because Cruz hasn’t accepted their offer.
Moustakas, Senzel, Romano, and Lorenzen to the Royals for Merrifield, Mondesi, and Staumont. Merrifield plays second Mondesi shortstop and Staumont possible closer.
I’m a Nats fan and would like to have Suarez at 3B, but the farm system is too shallow to trade away prospects, especially pitchers.
Pass
Geno is the face of the team. His contract his reasonable and he’s a total stud. Leave it alone!