Blue Jays president and chief executive officer Mark Shapiro has agreed to a five-year extension, per an announcement from Rogers Communications. Shapiro indicated back in October that he hoped to remain in his post and that Jays ownership at Rogers had reciprocated that interest. Sportsnet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith tweets that Shapiro will now be under contract through 2025.
“Mark’s leadership and commitment to excellence over the last five years have been critical to the team’s growth and development,” said Rogers Communications/Blue Jays chairman Edward Rogers in a statement announcing the new contract. “We’re extremely pleased that Mark will continue to lead the Toronto Blue Jays and build on the team’s progress as we work towards our goal of bringing as World Series championship back to Canada.”
Shapiro, 53, came to the Jays in 2015 on the heels of a 25-year run with the Indians. He served as Cleveland’s general manager from 2001-10 before being promoted to president, at which point current Cleveland president of baseball ops Chris Antonetti was elevated to GM status. Shapiro hired Cleveland’s director of player personnel, Ross Atkins, to serve as the Blue Jays’ general manager upon taking his initial post in Toronto, and the two have overseen the club’s operations since. Atkins signed a contract extension himself back in June 2019, although unlike Shapiro, the length of his contract was never formally announced by Rogers.
As is often the case with front-office overhauls in baseball, there were some lean years for the Jays after the hiring of Shapiro and Atkins. Those struggles are now in the rear-view mirror, however, as the Jays boast a young core that is among the more enviable groups of controllable talent in the game. Toronto supplemented that core with the signing of ace Hyun Jin Ryu last winter, and the Jays are widely expected to sign and/or acquire additional high-end talent this winter as they take aim at a second consecutive postseason berth.
The extension for Shapiro and the 2019 extension for Atkins ensure continuity atop both the baseball and business operations hierarchies for the Jays as they endeavor to establish themselves as a perennial contender in the ever-competitive AL East.
Shapiro issued his own statement on the new contract as well:
“From a personal and professional standpoint, I am thrilled to continue being a Toronto Blue Jay. I am fortunate to work with exceptional people and am proud of the progress we have made together, to build a culture, community and clubhouse that our incredible fans can cheer on. Living in Toronto and Canada has been life changing for me and my family and I am excited to experience the feeling of winning a championship with this city and country.”
Good for him. Congrats Mark
Shapiro signed someone! Give him a 5-year deal!
He’s not the GM. The guy Shapiro signed is Ross Atkins.
He’s “in on” Blake Swihart.
oh no, what will the overreacting Jays fans do
Similar to overreacting Phillies fans?
there are enough of them, that’s for sure. sports fans are crazy around here.
I haven’t actually seen any Jays fans. Just you guys with the same tired played out joke. On every single post. Every single day.
Im a Jays fan.
Im happy about this, I’ve never understood the hate for Shapiro and Atkins. They frustrate me as a fan sometimes but overall have done a good job
While I’m a Jays fan I’m not as impressed although I do acknowledge the team seems to be headed in the right direction. But if you compare winning % of the last few Jays GMs Shaprio doesn’t do very well.
Shaprio: 47.5%
AA: 50.3%
Ricciardi:49.5%
Ash:47.7%
Only Toronto fans think ‘Shaprio’ is their ‘GM’. I don’t think they have much in the way of business in Canada, so it’s perhaps not surprising that they don’t understand organizational roles. There’s a coffee chain Tim Hortons but otherwise I think it’s just a branch plant economy. If you look at the franchise history you see they’ve had a pretty bush league set of club Presidents, including a guy named Sam Pollock who was a hockey player (seriously), so it’s probably not surprising that their inferiority complex starts showing when they get an actual baseball President.
Eddie you aren’t very nice
Please don’t group Maple Leaf fans in with Blue Jays fans.
Majority of Blue Jays fans do not live in Ontario.
@lol Yawn, your put everybody down routine is played out
Happy to see it – progress building back from 2016 has been better than expected. Strong big league foundation with a top end farm. Definitely cause for optimism.
Progress since 2019. 3 year backslide but thanks.
That 3 year backsliding was a necessity to get out from the overpriced contracts that we couldn’t get rid of.
Imagine if they had resigned Encarnacion??
If they had signed Edwin it would have meant….
-No Morales
-Probably no Bautista
-Possibly no Pearce
-Better offensive production in 2017 through 2019 and a WC shot in 2017.
So yes, Edwin would have been a much better signing than the 3 DHs they signed instead, including 3 years of Morales. Also, Rogers is not poor. Stop treating them and the Jays like they are small market.
I guess you didn’t see EE play with CLE and SEA, he wasn’t nearly the player he was during that 4-5 year run
And I think he would still be under contract for this year, meaning we probably lose some prospects trading him.
Morales wasn’t a Chris Davis contract or production
Bautista was staying regardless
Peirce was coming off decent years and should have only played vs LH pitchers, he was also WS MVP the year we traded him
I don’t believe with EE we get the WC in 2017, but neither of us can say for sure
No Morales means no Gurriel
Bautista was not staying regardless. That’s not true.
When you’re allegedly chasing a WS title you do not care about the prospects.
Morales was a one-dimensional player holding a DH position. If EE did not sign, they needed to go get players who could actually play a position. Morales, Pearce and 36 turning 37 year old Bautista were not answers. The DH slot needed to be open for Donaldson and Tulo once a week if EE did not sign. Maybe Donaldson stays healthy without those moves. Maybe Tulo stays healthy too. We can say for certain.
No reason for Pearce after signing Morales. Needed an actual OF.
EE produced over the 3-year span of 2017-2019. Let’s not downplay it.
Stop treating Canada like a small market? OK, time to be truthful, Canada’s not a “small market” where baseball is concerned. Instead, it’s a joke. Canada would have to improve a lot to be a baseball small market.
Canada lost the Expos because the market wasn’t ‘small’ it was way worse than that. Year after year of pitiful attendance, coupled with crying that it was someone else’s fault. Always the owner’s fault.
The Blue Jays were almost contracted in the late 1990’s because the attendance was so abysmal only a few years after winning the WS. The truth is that baseball was a short-lived fad in Canada. They had minor league teams in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa at the AAA level. All of them folded. Every single one. The baseball fad came and went.
The Blue Jays only remained in Canada because a telecom bought it to integrate into a broadcast network. But it’s the same old story.
From here it looks like the problem for baseball is that in Canada they have a semi-soft currency worth roughly 75 cents, and a high tax system so that there is very little disposable money. If you ever watch a Blue Jays game in Toronto, the boxes are all dark and empty and the fans sit up in the cheap seats. They pretend on the internet that Toronto is a ‘big market’ like NY or the Sox, but if they ever had to pay the same ticket prices as NY and Boston, and Wrigley or Chavez or SF, they’d cry their eyes out.
Another part of it is the weather. They live in a sub-arctic climate. It’s freezing in April and cold in May and September. It’s small wonder that there is no sports history in Canada other than ice hockey.
I hate to knock on them but their online crying fits are tiresome. Their stadium is on its last legs and I’m sure no one is stupid enough to invest in a baseball stadium in a garbage market for baseball like Toronto.. It would be better for all concerned if the team was sold and moved somewhere that wants an MLB team. Look how much better the Nats did once they escaped Canada and moved to DC. Then Canadians can go back to complaining about the Toronto Maple Leaves.
Eddie, a little bit nicer this time, thanks.
You seem to be obsessed with the Jays, more hateful wording or we’re gonna find out the truth that you’re a superfan.
When the Jets left, there was a campaign to bring them back until they returned.
The dynamic in Montreal is way too complex to compare to anything here.
Canada wouldn’t have let the Blue Jays leave too. Rogers isn’t the only corporation in the country. Somebody would have bid.
What if conversations are pointless though.
Keep secretly following the Jays though, it’s actually flattering.
Have you seen the crowds that would show up in places like Seattle and Minnesota when fans were allowed to attend?
Did you know that the Jays didn’t have to worry about the weather pre-covid?
More likely to see an NFL team expand to Canada than to see the Jays leave in my opinion.
Let’s not forget Jays fans were also the first fans to break the 4 million attendance mark , before Boston, before any NY or LA based teams
Give us a winning product and we will support it, give us trash and we don’t
The Raptors are another prime example. Their championship parade was also the largest in NA sports.
There are more Jays fans in attendance @ Seattle games than Seattle fans when we visit.
Bring MTL back and stick them in the AL east, you’ll have every home game sold out when they meet each other
And our tax structure is quite similar to NY and Boston as well as the Weather
You do realize Toronto is further south Geographically than NY right?
Toronto is not a small market, The owners are one of if not the richest in the Sport. They could buy the man who just bought the Mets with their spare change
They have smart talent evaluators in Shapiro and Atkins, if the players we have pan out and we add a few more great players the spending will continue. If they pulled a Cincinnati move and tried to compete for 1 year then sell off, fans would not support them period.
Rogers is all about the money. They understand the best way to profit from the Jays is to build a sustainable competitive team
That is all!
^Slow clap!
Awesome stuff.
Wasting sunshine here, no more distractions for now, I swear.
Go Jays.
Have a great day everybody.
From here it looks like the problem for baseball is that in Canada they have a semi-soft currency worth roughly 75 cents, and a high tax system so that there is very little disposable money.
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The exchange rate issue is huge. The revenue is based on CDN, while the payroll is based on USD. If the Loony declines, the revenue stays the same, but their player payroll increases.
Give us a winning product and we will support it, give us trash and we don’t
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That’s a bug, not a feature.
Teams like the RS, Cubs, Cards, and SF generally get very consistent attendance. You cannot afford high-priced long-term FAs, if the fans only show up during a WS run. Every team cycles on and off, maybe not the LAD, but everyone else.
At the end of the day, no matter what the excuse is, if only 1.7M fans attend, then you are a small market team.
@joe
The Jays could very well be in that tier as well, ownership has played with fans for the last 25 plus years. Hindsite being 20/20 and taking into account other sports teams in Toronto, its easy to see that if you provided a good quality product (or even sub par if its just a few off years like the Leafs) fans will come in droves and gobble up merchandise or pay for the premium packages etc
Hockey is the official religion of Canada and most Ontario residents bleed blue and white (for the Leafs not the Jays) but if Toronto built a great team and made the playoffs for 8 of the next 10 years, or 12 of the next 15, 16 of the next 20 (think SA spurs type of reaching the playoffs) You would Build a very loyal fan base who will support you even in your off years where you lose a Key FA or whiff on every FA
1.7 million fans attending is still only a fraction of the revenue, Leafs and Raptors sell out constantly and continuously but get the bulk of their revenue from TV and sports packages related to their broadcasts. Rogers is no different with the Jays considering they own the team, the network its aired on, the cable company who provides the stations, owns the stadium for a pennies on the dollar that it cost to build and have a monopoly on everything TV/internet related
They would still profit hand over fist if 0 fans attended, which is why they should be capitalizing on this opportunity in front of them, and will have many disgruntled fans if they don’t
@Joe Brady
Didn’t the RS lose massive attendance last year when they sucked? That tells me that, contrary to what you’re saying, the fans have limited interest in an inferior product. Put a playoff contender on the field, and those wayward fans will be back in droves. Just like in Toronto, apparently.
You have absolutely no clue about what goes on here in Canada regarding baseball today or in the past. Why don’t you talk to somebody who has lived here and followed the Blue Jays and Expos. You might learn something.
@Guest
I disagree, it was inevitable Bautista stayed. No one else wanted him, he had started his decline (after talking crazy prior to his FA stint about 5 year big money deaks) and Rogers needed him to sell tickets.
Even after EE signed with CLE it was leaked that the Jays had offered more garunteed years and either equal or more money. Thats an extremely bad contract no matter how you slice it with hindsite (even if it gets you 1 WC)
What would everyone be saying about owing EE 20 plus million to sit at home while using it as an excuse to not pursue Springer/Bauer/JTR, trading for Lindor or worse attaching Groshans to his contract in a trade just go get it off the books last year just so you could aquire Ray and Striping or go after Ryu in FA
Morales was ok. Not good, slightly bad at different times, but nothing that made you think ” wow this was dumb”
We can’t say the “if this then that” game, Tulo was damaged goods period, his heels were/are destroyed and no level of offtime was going to fix it, nonetheless DH duties. And maybe Donaldson destorys his hip one winter skating with the Leafs for a photo op around Xmas? You can insert anything in at this point.
I do agree the following signings after Morales were not the best (always in hindsite) but Pearce wasn’t pursued out of ignorance, he mashed lefties and the Jays needed to improve in that dept. He had slight versatility and could play 2b or LF (albeit poorly) when that kind of thing was becoming more prevalent.
You can only play with the cards your dealt and against the willing participants available.
Eddie— the world including Canada is laughing at your deeply flawed country.
I suspect you are rural, non-college educated white based on your views of Toronto and Canada as it pertains to a baseball market.
I encourage you to review which road teams draw the largest crowds— I think you would be disappointed to see the Blue Jays drawing consistently in the top 3-5 road teams.
Former Blue Jays — whether they were on the World Series winning teams or not—consistently say that they recognized and appreciated from coast to coast.
Are Toronto fans more supportive of a winning team? Absolutely but you cannot blame them when everyone is aware that corporate ownership is more interested in the bottom line than winning championships.
Wait until the Jays have a new downtown stadium over looking the shores of Lake Ontario. They’ll sell it out for certain.
RS: Not a lot of fans coming out in the 80s.
Cubs: Not a lot of fans coming out in the 80s or early 90s.
Cards: Not a lot of fans coming out in the 70s or early 90s.
SF: Not a lot of fans coming out aside from new park factor and then a mini dynasty.
Where were the Yankee fans watching games during the 80s and early 90s? Not so many at the Stadium then..
Most teams attendance correlates with their record, safe to assume? Give them playoffs or they’ll start to leak away.
Build a winner, they will show!**
**Except TB etc situations with stronger factors at play.
Yes, we lost 100% of our attendance.
Jansfan,. Shapiro and Atkins are not smart talent evaluators. They can draft[mostly] and develop[almost] but their professional scouting is abhorrent and everyone in the league knows it.
Why don’t you talk to somebody who has lived here and followed the Blue Jays and Expos.
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I used to go up to watch the Expos every year. Nobody went to their games either. The Big O was an awful, awful stadium to play in. The Expos tried real hard. The use to have a little jazz band play after the game. Hanging out after the game with a cold beer and good music was fun.
Met the El Gato on the subway with his family. A fine gentleman. Saw Pascual Perez walking out, The dude was dressed from head to toe in pink, and covered with gold jewelry. He was like the Pied Piper to the kids following him.
Fun story-We stopped in at a joint on Crescent St several hours before a game. We ask the bartender if he was open. He says ‘not exactly, but I can serve you, but we’re working on the sound system and it’s going to be really loud’.
So we’re NYers, and scoff at the idea of it being too loud. We buy a round, and the barkeep asks if we have a request. My brother says ‘Hell’s Bells’. Needless to say, yeah, it was really loud. The beer in my glass was vibrating, and my glass was actually sliding slowly down the bar, due to the vibration.
We had the bar to ourselves, and played every song we could think of. Just an awesome time.
A wild card run in 2017, seriously? That team was done in by the collapse of their key pitchers from ’16 — Estrada, Sanchez, Biagini, Liriano, Grilli all having terrible years in 2017. Encarnacion might’ve gotten them to 77 wins… if he didn’t end up taking playing time away from Smoak’s best season.
JaysFan Bautista was not inevitable. He declined the QO and after weeks went by the Jays decided to bring him back at $17’ish million after already signing two DH’s in Pearce and Morales. Forcing an older Bautista to play RF every day. It wasn’t inevitable, that’s just trying to re-write history to make people feel good.
Pearce barely played 2B. A half decent scout would have told the Jays “he can’t defend”. Jays had other needs after Morales and did not address it.
Your hypothetical is crap. Jays stood pat and didn’t deal the assets they had. Had they done so the Jays would be prepared to win without question in 2021. Franchises tend to delay things in-order for GMs and Presidents to squeeze out one extra year in their position. It’s a practice being done by other teams as we speak. It allows them to land extensions based on promises made and not promises kept.
Smuz – you didn’t pay attention in 2017, as a bad Jays team was still lingering in the WC hunt mid-season. They were closer to a WC position than the 2015 team was prior to acquiring Tulo.
Why would EE steal at bats from Smoak if one plays 1B and the other DHs?
And finally….if 2017 was so terrible why didn’t the team start the rebuild then and there? I said they should have started it then and they really didn’t. You and others overlook this fact and it set the Jays back.
Well deserved he’s done a great job rebuilding the Jays
Good for him, bad for the team. (actually it is Rogers that is bad for the team)
Good. Any Jays “fan” who can honestly sit there and complain about the job he’s done just doesn’t pay attention to the game at all. He & Atkins have completely flipped that organization from being one of the oldest rosters in baseball with a bare farm system to one of the most exciting young cores in the game and has them to be in a position of sustained success. Can’t wait for the next couple of years. Go Jays!
Well said!!
Donaldson trade? Smoak trade(never happened)? Signing multiple DH’s within weeks if not days? Not capitalizing on two playoff runs? Are you kidding me? Questioning the methods and practices of this organization is forbidden now? 7th beat AL record is not worth bragging about. Enough about excitement and more results.
To be fair with the Donaldson trade.. lots of people wanted to keep him in 2017 for another playoff run rather than trading him the offseason prior to the ‘17 season.
Looking back now it was definitely the wrong move compared to the reported offer from the cardinals.
The possibility of pushing for a wildcard appearance in 17 might’ve swayed their decision more than it should have.
Then why are people talking about a teardown when it never happened? The word teardown has been tossed around on this thread. And, you remember 2017 I see. Did the Jays try to make the playoffs in 2017? No. They dealt for Teoscar by getting rid of Liriano. Nice move, but that was it. They did not push for the playoffs or push for the future.
When they dropped the ball on Donaldson I wanted the Jays to keep him and QO him after the 2018 season.
Rhymo, solid comment. Your recollection is spot-on. Not being sarcastic FYI.
Bryant is a bit of a Donaldson deja vu case.
Gamble on a guy to get healthy and rebound, he doesn’t, can’t win em all.
Smoak had trade value?
In 2017 he did. Good numbers, great contract, team control.
From 1st base.
Goldschmidt might be the only 1st base traded for anything of value in the past few years.
Last year Moreland was RAKING and the return was basically nothing.
The return for Smoak would’ve been around the same return for Pillar/Martin/Sogard.
Relative to a pre-arb slugger, horrible contract. Every team has a masher in the minors that they could slot at 1B.
How many small market teams were in on Goldschmidt? Not a trick question.
Moreland was traded in his walk year. Smoak had two more controllable years. Big difference.
2017-18 offseason there was Hosmer and Santana. After ranking in the Top 8 in baseball in OPS amongst 1B the Jays could have dealt Smoak in the offseason as an option.
Your examples aren’t strong enough. Plus the Jays received nothing out of Smoak when they could have made a deal during his breakout season.
Summer 17 he had some value, valid.
But not more than a pre-arb option that most teams have ready in the minors.
Every team has a Rowdy Tellez type that Smoak would have blocked.
Mariners took on Santana contract to get out from a Segura headache.
Then traded his contract for Edwin’s brutal contract.
Hosmer? 30 teams in MLB considered his contract brutal at the time it was signed.
Stronger examples please.
Mariners took Santana in 2018. He was making $20-mil’ish. Smoak was making about one-third of that. Set contract, very affordable. But the Mariners in 2018 has nothing to do with Smoak being dealt in 2017.
If you are asking for stronger examples I kindly ask that you try not to mix up your years. There were teams out there. You’re neglecting the fact that the Jays never even tried to deal Smoak at any point during his Jays tenure. For a team looking to rebuild that is a problem you are conveniently ignoring.
Any action involving 1B market directly links to what happens with Smoak.
To get rid of a 1B making above minimum, you need that player to be a star, or you need to take a contract/headache back in exchange.
What headache was going to be part of the return for Smoak?
Anyway, you are set in your ways, no point discussing any further.
I have some sunshine to go enjoy.
Keep enjoying your hours of criticism. See ya tomorrow friendo.
Seriously mate, please expound on your thoughts about the “Donaldson trade”. Donaldson had just cleared waivers a few days before he was traded. For your sake, that means that any team could have had him for exactly ‘zero’ and passed. Because they would also have had to pay his salary. What that means and I’ll translate it into saf for you, is that he had what we call ‘negative trade value’. That’s what we call it when no team will take a player for nothing at all, if they have to pay his salary.
So tell us please, what do you think a team should get for someone with negative trade value? Please explain for us your thoughts. We all want to see the inner workings of a mind that doesn’t appear to work at all.
From what I see on here, the Blue Jays fans seem to be divided between those who actually think, and those like you who look for imaginary grievances to cry about online repeatedly ad nauseum. All clubs have complainers, but the daily whine, daily grievance ‘fans’ seem to be almost always from Toronto.
Donaldson trade happened in 2018
The discussions are around 2017 when most fans realize he should have been traded.
Try to keep up superfan Eddie!
Your points still quite valid though, good take
Eddie since you’re not all there, here’s a brief Donaldson back story.
-Should’ve traded him at the 2017 deadline.
-Had a trade lined up in the 2017-18 offseason, allegedly, with St Louis for two young pitchers. Rumoured Weaver, Hudson or Gallen but Flaherty was untouchable.
– Waited until 2018 to deal for Merryweather. Could have and should have QO him.
Now, the only whiner here is you. You come on every Jays story and start angrily ripping Jays fans for whatever reason. Not sure why you have some kind of teen angst but you need to figure it out and relax. If you had any real substantive argument we could hear you out. You don’t. We see your tears and pity you.
Actually you can’t really give Atkins and Shapiro all the credit for the current roster of players that came through the system or the talked about “prospects” in the minors. True they did draft/trade for some of them but a lot of them came from the old regime. It usually take a minimum of 3 but closer to 5 years to see what the “new” regime has started to accomplish. Also remember Atkins did not want to draft Bichette and drafted a guy who never last 2 years. The staff that convinced Atkins to take Bichette, with the next pick 2 slots away, were all let go from the system not long after drafting Bichette.
Jays allegedly didn’t want to draft Bichette. Vlad was AA’s signing.
Toronto’s GM didn’t want to draft Bo Bichette? But he did anyway? Why did he draft him if he didn’t want to? Which youtube conspiracy video did you learn this from? Can you link it? Which staff convinced the GM to take Bichette and then were let go? Again, where did you hear this? You seem like a perfectly entertaining nutter but I’m happy to see your conspiracy theory article or video.
I take back what I said elsewhere. In addition to having some intelligent fans as well as the daily whine/daily grievance clowncar, Toronto also appears to have some entertainment in its fanbase.
Jays didn’t want to draft a high school player, scout pushed Atkins to draft him, he relented. The end. You seem off as a human being.
Eddie, Guests is right-on here.
The scout had to do some loud convincing for Atkins to draft Bichette. By the way, Atkins fired that scout not to much later and he was immediately hired by the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Um, been a “real” Jays fan for decades. Yes, they”ve restocked the farm system but what’s the point of doing so if you’re unwilling to add by other means? No organization drafts an entire team core, they make trades and bring in free agents to compliment what they’ve put in place…until that happens, fans will be dissatisfied with what they’ve done. Jays seem to be just short on everything, suggesting job security and corporate earnings matter more than the on-field product
Well…I knew they were “interested.”
Excellent! with the Front Office now stable time to make some moves!!!
GO JAYS GO!!!
If the Jays win the World Series he gets a $100,000 Canadian Tire money bonus.
well that is not bad if he shops at Canadian Tire $100,000.00 worth of merchandise is actually worth a lot, as it is equal to a dollar spent and he gets more Canadian tire money each time he spends a Canadian tire dollar
These replies to my comment are hilariously Canadian.
I have done worse for less. Canadian Tire rocks!
Hopefully it’s credit, as CDN Tire is holding back on the paper form since Covid touched North America
As a Jays fan, I’m fine with this. Let’s see if he can finish the job he started.
14yearold, Shapiro should have finished the job 2 years ago. That’s all it would have taken for Cashman, or Dombrowski or Epstein.
… or anyone else whose boss hands them a two hundred million dollar check. Cashman would not have completed a rebuild as quickly if he’d been working for the Blue Jays.
Then that would be an ownership problem.
They’re after every free agent known to man and this is the move they make? Whatever. Please go sign someone now.
No kidding, Robbie Ray, some waiver claims and a Shap extension……everything we hoped for this offseason. What’s next, million dollar bonuses for Rogers executive’s!?
They’re after every free agent known to man and this is the move they make?
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I’m curious, do you think extending Shapiro interferes with them signing free agents, especially the free agents that have no signed with anyone?
Yep, it’s well known that any team that has to spend money on extending their president / CEO will not have as much budget room to sign free agents as before. Those high priced executives suck up every last available dollar so that the best players have to go elsewhere.
Now that they’ve extended Shapiro they will probably have to make more cuts to scouting, data analysis and food services too. Forget about free agent players seeking top dollar. Especially the free agents that have not signed with anyone — they will have to dig through the bargain bin of players who have already signed contracts.
Dynamite analysis, JoeBrady.
Rogers is wealthy enough and making enough money not to make any more cuts. They’ve operated on a budget lower than they need to long enough.
Yep, it’s well known that any team that has to spend money on extending their president / CEO will not have as much budget room to sign free agents as before.
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Then theoretically, no team should have a CEO?
Does the rest of the sports world know this?
1. AJ Cole
2. Shapiro
3. Panik
4. Playoffs
Yes but are they interested though I mean honestly really that is the key right there
“Michael Corleone says hello”
Not a Jays fan, but I appreciate the job he’s done. He built up a very strong farm system that’s graduated some of its best prospects and is building a team that could contend with the Yankees and Rays if they can land a couple major FA’s (or the young players make big strides). I still think they’re a year away from truly contending, even if they get a WC spot, but he’s done a nice job so far.
And eventually they might work their way to the very top of the division with the Red Sox.
I don’t get the sarcasm. They are currently better than the Sox in every way and I dont think many would argue with that. Also, the Sox have won 4 WS since The Jays last appearance in the WS so let’s not get too ahead of ourselves.
Worst case scenario, he has the potential to bring a WS to buffalo
Mark was very disliked with the transition and AA leaving and has always been working against the grain for many Jays fans. However overall Mark has done a pretty good job rebuilding the farm, graduating the prospects. They have not done much yet to take the next step in rounding out the roster via trades and FA (Ryu excluded). Trades have been very marginal and they have taken a slow and steady approach without many splashes.
This is probably their biggest offseason for them as the young core is pretty good and they need to now spend prospect capital or cash to take the next step.
I would say he deserves the extension from the overall body of work.
One of the things the FO still struggles with is relating to Canada and PR/communication. Because they often are so hyper focused on their Options and Alternatives they can at times come off poorly in their communication to fans. As well understanding the uniqueness of the Canadian market IMO is something they have struggled with such as sitting Vlad on Victoria day which was one of the biggest attended games of the year. The hyper focus on their plans at times ignores the finer things you might want to do as well to reward your fans and communicate that you see and understand them.
I think if they can tone down their we have a plan just trust us talk and relate a little more it would help their perception in the market here.
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror
Yup differ, yup
Stats don’t care about your ERA.
Oh no. I begged Edward Rogers not to do this.
The BlueJays fans can expect Years more of not winning anything. You heard it here first in 2016. It shall continue. It is the way.
And yet they’ve made the playoffs twice in the five years Shapiro has been on board, even with a rebuild in the middle. I’ll happily take a continuing 40% playoff rate, after watching them go 20 years without an appearance.
2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 – that is 6 years.
You count 2015 where he had nothing to do with it.
2016 was a hangover from 2015.
Take your 40%, erase the 4, you have your answer.
Someone always likes to criticize people for not reading well…
Smuz said ‘twice in the five years’ so who is really counting 2015 where he had nothing to do with it?
Even if you wanna take away the credit for 2016 with your Ji-Man level stretching skill, what about 2020?
Didn’t win a playoff game, expanded playoff format, but you pretty much gotta take your foot off the bag trying to stretch to take away the credit for making those playoffs.
2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 is 5 seasons, and there were 2 playoff appearances, that is 40% on my calculator.
Can you send me a link to online calculator that can perform this new stretchy math?
I would have waited to announce this AFTER inking a couple marquee FA’s. Sort of seems that the focus may not be where Jays fans would have wanted it over the last month. Not great optics anyways
They can’t force free agents to sign. The entire FA market is at a standstill waiting for the top tier FAs to decide where they’ll go. It’s not like the front office is incapable of doing two things at once.
Thank you for that reassurance. Because I wasn’t sure
With so many top FA still available, the optics don’t matter right now.
If they don’t add a player at/near the top, that’s a different story
So the Reno is off the table ((that Shapiro was brought in specifically to do)…the roster requires improvements but management won’t spend, fan base is restless and disinterested but yeah….sign up for 5 more years of fackery!
Management is open to spending (we saw that last offseason), the fan base is very much interested (Canadian youth baseball has gone up a lot ever since the Blue Jays made the playoffs in 2015). So I don’t know what you mean by those things. Have a good day!
When management is open to spending it’ll be the first in Rogers history of owning the team. Even their highest payrolls had wiggle room they refused to use. Than you for the fiction jpritch, needed a good laugh today.
Saying “we’ll spend” and actually spending is completely different. More often than not they search for reclamation projects,at a discount rate… it’s a multibillion $ ownership group, you’d hope they’d spend much more than they have the last several seasons. Moreso with the young core not really earning yet, that window will close quickly…be nice to see them take advantage of it
Agree with the point Schwing, but that’s like criticizing me for not dating models? When the models turn me down, I still need a date. So then I’m looking for a ‘she’s all that’ scenario. And when the ones with potential either ignore me or don’t actually have potential, I’m stuck in Panik mode.
But if I was Rogers rich, I’d probably be willing to overpay at Mcdonalds after the Keg wouldn’t let me inside.
Personally hoping for an overpay on a short contract.
Feeling like the Jays are generally required to overpay on term and years though. (based on franchise FA history).
@filthy Joe Panik modes and big spending at the Golden arch, a few of life’s little pleasures. Short over pays are 100% better than a long term one, give Bauer 2/$80….just push all in when the money is there to be spent.
SHAAAAWING, good stuff
I fear that even a short overpay leaves the Jays hanging. Even Russell Martin needed that extra year to convince him is the main point I’m stuck on.
I’d be happy adding a Bobby Bonilla type clause to convince someone at this point. Thankfully I’m not in charge.
Hope this isn’t the Jays’ only signing
Jays attendance since Shapiro has been in charge:
2016= 3.4M
2017= 3.2M
2018:= 2.3M
2019:= 1.7M
2020= N/A
He built a good system…yawn
He ditched some over priced vets: yawn
This is a team with HUGE revenues and profitability. And he’s basically ran them like the Pirates. You never get back the revenue/ fan interest/brand value you lost. It’s inevitable in small markets….and a sacrilege in the larger ones.
Great post……Rogers could and should easily spend up to the tax threshold and beyond.. Mark & Russ can go, Shatkins combo takes like garbage!
*tastes like garbage
Okay Bob, what were the attendance numbers from 2009 to 2014? What were the attendance numbers from 2000 to 2008?
I mean, it didn’t matter whether it was Shapiro, Anthopolous, or any other GM running the show in that period. They were clearly heading for a rebuild as they had the oldest roster in baseball and a barren farm system. It’s not really a great indicator to look at attendance against him. The Blue Jays don’t have the hardcore fan base to sell out during a rebuild. There might only be one or two teams that do.
It’s called a rebuild, lower attendance was to be expected, no matter the franchise.
I guess you’re forgetting how old and bad this team was trending towards in 2017/18. I would argue they didn’t get in front of the process fast enough, trying to hold onto their aging stars too long for the fans.
Also, citing the attendance for 2020 was pointless.
Bob, since you do not want to show those numbers i will do it for you:
2009 1.3 Mil
2010 1.4 Mil
2011 1.8 Mil
2012 2 Mil
2013 2.5 Mil
2014 2.3 Mil
2015 2.7 Mil
AA’s tenure had even worse overall attendance numbers but why post those numbers as they do not fit your narrative.
All AA’s tenure shows is that Toronto gets a ton of bandwagon support!
Your narrative is skewed 1977. Jays fans bought tickets in-droves after the playoff run in 2015, and the second half of 2015 they drew big numbers. The fans thought 2017 would be the same since there was excitement. They didn’t get the memo that Rogers does not know or care about winning, and hired Shapiro since he doesn’t know how.
If anything, BobT pointed out the fact that Shapiro/Atkins refused the capitalize on the fan support they received. Signing 3 DH’s will do that.
2020 Blue Jays viewership increased by 23% according to Forbes report from October.
As the play becomes less brutal, the bandwagon fills back up, strange eh?
“Huge revenues”. LOL! Nielsen doesn’t even bother rating Canada. They can’t advertise beer, so there’s no ad dollars. . And their ticket revenue comes in Canadian Tire money.
Nielsen can’t count that high perhaps.
Blue Jays reached an average of 500,000 viewers in 2020, up 23%.
The Yankees reached an average of 260,000 viewers in 2020, up 4%.
If I was a Rogers customer, I’d be whining about the Jays a lot more come to think of it. Even subscribing to the Sportsnet channels is pushing it if they are just going to pocket the profit rather than invest in the team.
Check me end of March, might hear one more Jays fan that never cheers for the team by then!
Cant advertise beer?
Ummmmmm i dont think that’s accurate
Fact check my friend, you have enough people coming after you as it is. You shouldn’t give them ammo to fire at you
The was a “code” enacted to promote responsible drinking , kind of the same thing as gambling when you see an ad with “please gamble responsibly” you get the same thing in Canada, basically dont market to children and keep liability away by having small print say “drink responsibly”
Kind of a stretch to say you can’t advertise Beer lol
Let’s say hypothetically, we resign Shapiro
Bob, you nailed it.
“This is how we do we do business in Cleveland”
Alright Jays fans, no more complaining!
The organization have finally signed someone that they are interested in.
Shapiro was the only name that Jays weren’t publicly “in on”. Hoping this isn’t the biggest signing of the offseason but he has done a good job with the team
Good to see the blue jays finally committed to a deal with SOMEONE.
Wonder what his AAV is?
3, maybe 4, players making more than him this year?
Thinking he’s done/overseen a good job so far, I still have my doubts they can build a Championship winner.
Five years of incompetence.
good for rogers this puppets will continue a good job of manipulating fans ans keep coast down good for pockets of rogers bad for the only team in canada
Congrats Mark! Ok
Some loser actually had this in their post:
“The BlueJays fans can expect Years more of not winning anything. You heard it here first in 2016. It shall continue. It is the way.”
So the year they openly told everyone they were tearing down the oldest roster in baseball and rebuilding a decimated farm for the next 5 years, at that point you were bold enough to make a call that they wouldn’t win. Thanks Kreskin, or should I say thanks to the whiniest, least educated fan on this site. gtfoh you clueless clown
Was pleasant to read at least a few posts from baseball fans that get it,
Nobody openly said there’d be a teardown. Blue Jays just did it by pretending to contend after the 2016 season. Before you call out the education of fans I ask that you not spew BS about a teardown nobody said or called for from the Jays organization. In fact, it was Atkins that said he doesn’t believe in calling it a rebuild which means there wasn’t a teardown. Judging the personnel moves they certainly blundered the teardown.
I’m not sure it is up to management to explain the fact of life to you.
After 2016, you had two SPs under the age 33, and one of the two never worked out. Three position players under 30, and none particularly good (Pillar, Smoak, and Travis).. And he didn’t really tear it down, since he held on to his only trade asset (Donaldson) too long.
As a RS fan, I could see every little thing that resulted in 2020. As a TO fan, was there something else you anticipated?
Yes. A better 2016-17 offseason addressing needs to field a competitive team. Or, teardown. The phantom teardown didn’t happen. It was a slow piece by piece trade-off. After settin themselves up to fail in 2017, they failed to capitalize on the rebuild by not dealing Donaldson, Smoak, Pillar and others. All it did was slow the process.
When did Pillar have trade value?
You are on a roll today. My ribs are sore, give me a moment to breathe before make more jokes please!
Donaldson was an absolute debacle, and I’ve been saying that for years. He should’ve been traded in July, 2017.
That said, I’d bet real money that the FO would’ve been criticized for giving up.
The worst part is he didn’t start hitting that year until August.
If I’m getting offers on a guy that was hurt in May, and not quite in his rhythm by trade deadline, it does get a bit tempting to try and wait until the offseason to try trading him after he can hopefully end on a hot streak.
Gambling that he’d stay healthy, or even find that hot streak. Big backfire in hindsight.
Reminds me a lot of Cubs fans suggesting wait a couple months so Bryant can rebuild trade value…
Filthy, if you think Pillar was pulling in big prospects then you’d be mistaken. But since you’re new at this, Pillar would’ve brought back a much, much better haul than the trade made with the Giants. Now, if that doesn’t paint a better picture I don’t know what will.
In fact, some claim Danny Jansen has trade value as we speak. In 2017, Pillar was in the same part of his career as Jansen is right now and some would argue Pillar was better than Jansen is right now. Does that help or are you still purposefully lost?
No sir or maam, I think you should send a search party.
Nobody signed Pillar until the next spring training, where was the demand? He took much less money and a backup role.
A 29 year old CF vs a 25 year old Catcher? That is where I’m most lost. Please highlight that section of the map when you drop some air support.
Some would argue? The 2 broken record Jays fans that never cheer for the team don’t really count as ‘some’.
The point being that not trading Pillar didn’t set anything back. The return for him was going to be Derek Law level unless they traded him during the ALCS seasons.
In 2017 the perception of Pillar was much different. Plus defender at a position with many teams needing an upgrade in CF. You could not be more wrong considering a team would have had 2018-2020 in controllable years. A competitive team needing a CF would have traded more than Law and others they received in 2019. That’s not even a debate unless Atkins is a serious problem at GM.
Why was he non-tendered?
Why was there no interest when he was available?
My ribs! no more jokes please!!!!
He was non-tendered 2 years later because of budgetary reasons. Why would a team looking to make decisions in 2017 worry about what’s going to happen in 2019?
Pillar was 28 in 2017.
Apologies, I was talking when he was traded.
Nitpick petty details to sidestep the point, classy.
Morales was the best signing in years. Came with Gurriel. Going to keep sidestepping that one too?
Morales was not a terrible signing until the Jays signed two more DHs after him, Pearce and an aging Bautista. Jays are fortunate to have Gurriel. Very easy to say after the fact, something you enjoy doing which is sidestepping in a way. What your fake crystal ball doesn’t tell you is what could have happened to the Jays had they had a competent 2016-17 offseason. We will never know if suddenly a better player could’ve fallen in their lap or not.
Even Canadian baseball media thought the Jays should strike while the iron was hot on Pillar in 2017 and even after the 2017 season. Ice your ribs. Laughing wasn’t worth your trouble.
Much of Canadian baseball media is more deluded than our two resident cranky Blue Jay fans on these boards!
Anyway, keep diggin, enjoy your day!
Lol, I see you’ve encountered the top Blue Jays critic. Self proclaimed fan that never seems to cheer for the team. Same criticism on repeat.
Oh filthy, someday when you learn what sports is all about you will understand that sometimes a perennial mediocre franchise deserves some criticism. The world is rosy in your eyes but some have a different perspective. Can’t always be captain positive.
Can find something that gives you joy instead of 23 hours a day criticizing your favourite team though?
Come back when they get a new President maybe?
Unless the complaining is what gives you the joy.
If so, my apologies, just stay happy friendo
You don’t read very well.
Shapiro is a meh extension. What he’s done extremely well is the overhaul of Dunedin’s facilities plus the upgrades in Buffalo and in Toronto. He does know the value of talent development. He’s a small market-minded guy. Rogers loves hiring small market-minded people in a big market like Toronto. They’ve done it 3 times in 20 years.
But people on this comment section are lifting him up to some level I don’t think any current Toronto executive has earned.
I practice throwing curveballs and trying to hit the ball out of the infield. Reading well is not a priority.
In year 5 of the ‘plan’, they are primed to contend.
Unless they don’t sign anyone, then all criticism is justified.
As of Jan 2021, the progress is on point.
Filthy for elite Pres/GMs it doesn’t take 5 years to compete. Look at the elite ones, the Dombrowskis, Cashmans and Gillicks [once he learned how to do it] etc. It only takes a few years for the elite types to produce a team that can win.
Winning is the goal, not long-term competing. Please don’t drink that Shapiro/Sportsnet koolaid.
Is Shapiro incapable of also learning how to do it?
A lot of luck involved.
I expect the Jays to perform better than the Phillies over the next 5 years.
I expect the Jays to be neck and neck with the Yankees over the next 5 years.
Cashman is past his prime perhaps?
Why speak with such certainty all the time? Your track record is available for all to see, you realize? JA Happ still isn’t done.
Enjoy your takes for some strange reason, but they’re stuck on skip mode a lot lately, take a breather and come back with a new take would be quite refreshing.
5 more years of the same nitpick really something you’ll find joy in?
No shame in going to root for the Phillies if you love Dombrowski so much.
Will save a seat for you on the Jays bandwagon in 5 years!
To answer your first question, yes. Shapiro’s been a top exec for 20 years and has never won. Ever.
Just because someone likes a certain executive over another does not mean they automatically start cheering for that team. That’s a childish take.
Keep your shovel.
What about if someone spends hours a day complaining about the team they cheer for? That says to me try to find a different hobby or different team to cheer for.
But I lean more to the Jerry Howarth style of looking for the positives. Will probably never understand the cranky Sid Seixeiro style outlook that some fans seem to enjoy having.
Children say the darnedest things.
He must have earned it from all the free agents he’s recruited this off-season. These 2 guys are so dull. Bring back AAA, he’s got the knowledge , gets things done, has personality, he’s a hoot during interviews and he actually has substance when he talks. Die hard jays fan here dying hard and fast with this extension.
No surprise here. Rogers likes their small market mentality hires like Ricciardi, Anthopoulos and Shapiro, resulting in zero World Series appearances.
Shapiro’s only real goal moving forward is the new stadium and retooling the current one. But if you are measuring success to the extension you’d be incorrect. The fawning over Shapiro and this move in several comments is over the top and not accurate. This is just a “meh” move.
Again, what did you expect? As a RS fan, I hope you guys stink. But that is very unlikely. You’ve got a whole bunch of young, cheap talent, and your winning % increase > 100 points last year. Were you expecting something different?
You have no clue how the Jays operate. The expectation should be to compete every year. Rogers is the richest owner in the division and all of baseball, if not Top 2. The team is not discipline enough and doesn’t pitch well enough to win. Defensively they are a question mark. They are further away than you think, and when you play sloppy baseball over 162 games it shows. They outhit their blunders in 60 games last year to finish mid-pack.
You guys don’t have nearly as many resources as the RS, and the RS don’t have nearly the resources as the NYY. In 2019, the RS drew 67% more fans, and the Yankees almost doubled you.
I do agree on pitching, but you still need to wait for the off-season to play out. If I listened to the TO, RS, and NY critics, it would appear no one is going to be signing any FAs.
JoeB: awesome!
“If I listened to the TO, RS, and NY critics, it would appear no one is going to be signing any FAs.”
So true, listen to the critics and you’d expect the Orioles are going to take the division because the rest of the teams aren’t trying?
I was too lazy to list all 30 teams, but even a week ago, the sullen masses of NYM fans were complaining that Cohen wasn’t signing EVERYONE. By my estimation, the NYM have added ~ $50M in new players this year. But if this is all they do, hordes of feckless NYM fans will be here next month complaining about the NYMs not spending money.
Just as an aside, when MLB-R posts articles about Odorizzi and the RS being connected, the whiners never posted. You know why? They were waiting to see if he signs. If he doesn’t sign, then Odorizzi is a great pitcher that Bloom missed out on. If we do sign him, they will say Odorizzi stinks and Bloom is bottom-feeding,
I’ve been saying to other Jays fans not to panic just yet. Plenty of talent out there. But I LOVE how you say to be patient yet say the Jays do not have as many resources as the Yanks or Bosox.
Newsflash: if the Blue Jays ownership wanted to play the arms race with your Red Sox and the Yankees, they could do it and take it to the next level. Neither owner could keep up.
Also do not forget that the Blue Jays used to draw over 4-million fans at one time. If in contention they could very well do it again.
You’re assuming that owners will simply reach into their own pockets to support the team so that you can watch. It’s a business. They will spend whatever the business generates in revenue.
Assuming? No. Rogers is the richest owner in baseball using the small market mentality for 20 years. This is nothing new. The Blue Jays generate strong revenue. Strong TV ratings (also owned by Rogers).
Joe, if the Jays were in the red every year you’d have a point. They are doing fine in that department.
There is a huge difference between being the richest owner and the richest team.
IRT how much money the Jays are making, I do not have access. Don’t get me wrong, I think some teams under-invest (the NYM w/Wilpon for example), but it is just as bad to over-invest when you are no good (recent Tiger teams for example).
We’re in-agreement. Rogers has underinvested, severely, every year since buying out the stadium. That would be 2005.
There’s your big offseason signing Jays fans. Five more years of being in on everyone and walking away with no one
This guy gets it.
Great move. Any GM that eschews old-fashioned statistics like wins, RBI, batting average, and ERA from the olden days is a guy to keep. Hopefully he will continue coming up with hot new sabermetrics and algorithms to continue changing baseball for the better.
And the zero World Series appearances with all that new age analytics you love so much. Heartwarming.
I was a huge critic of this man, and his friend Atkins. But you gotta give it to them, they’ve built one hell of an organization. Blue Jays moving forward are in great shape. Have to give credit where it’s due.. and it’s certainly due. Congrats Mark.
“built one hell of an organization”.
Not quite yet. They have the makings for one, but they’ve proven nothing. Not to say they can’t or won’t.
Sabermetrically they are now. Eventually nobody will care who wins a World Series, especially if it’s followed by a decade of mediocrity. A team that builds a sustainable foundation starting in their front office is just as good (if not better) than one that wins a World Series, especially since any team can win such a short series.
Ummm….Blue Jays between 1994-2014 were the epitome of mediocrity. They’ve been a sabremetric team since 2002. But anyone who says “nobody will care who wins a World Series” isn’t a baseball fan as far as I’m concerned. It might be the stupidest line coming from a fake baseball fan believing they have an intelligent point.
There is no reason to be here if you do not hope your baseball team wins a World Series. Nobody cares? Yeah, re-think your take here.
Thats the difference in being a fan(atic) and a bandwagoner
Fans have faith, we see the positive and relish in it while dreaming of the potential dynasty that could be in front of us
Vs
Just complaining that your team isn’t doing what you think is best in the time frame you expect it to happen
In all transactions it takes 2 sides, to trade for someone requires another team to agree to your offer. To sign a player takes the FA to agree to your offer, to get a larger budget requires your owner to agree to spend more, to get your owner to spend more requires having the means to turn that spending into investment dollars with little to no loss.
The Jays continually get held over a Barrel by FA and other teams during trades, its frustrating as a fan but you must concede the organization is already behind the 8ball for not only that reason but the fact they also take in CDN for alot of their revenue streams but pay out USD to players and other expenses team related (FO , profit sharing etc) factor in the stereotypes like the weather and being a “foreign” country, its quite the deficit and when the team is on a positive curve of success it should be applauded more
Also
2 of 30 teams get to the play in the WS every year, that’s a 7.5 percent chance. Knocking teams who didn’t make it that far is weird when you think about it logically.
Statically garunteed there will be a team that cannot win the WS for 29 years no matter what they do even if no repeat winners are allowed and magically you could have each team just take turns winning.
Now in reality that 29 years could turn into 58 years due to variance or even 87 years.
Cubs fans know that all too well.
It takes a little luck and wishful thinking, Jose Bautista literally went from the WORST MLB player ever ( Sb nation did a great YouTube video about it) to hitting 50 HR a year and being the face of baseball for a short time.
EE was known as E3 for all the errors he made at 3rd, if I remember right OAK claimed him on waivers in his first stint as a Jay, He was then re acquired shortly after and moved to first, the Parrot was born at that moment. Who saw that coming?
Could anyone have predicted Bautista’s breakout? If you did its likely youre also a lottery winner! EE had some pedigree in Cincinnati at least. But jays fan(atic)s cheered for Jose from day 1 no one booed hom during his walks to the plate. Fan(atic)s dreamt that Cito could fix his swing. And we all relished in it when it happened
Russ adams was supposed to be the BEST SS the Jays have ever or will ever have , Travis Snyder (Larry Lunchbox) was going to be even better than Shawn Green despite the size difference.
Its alot more fun when you can just enjoy the sport for what it is. It gets you extra hyped when your team has its chance. The Jays now have that chance again. Just sit back and enjoy if it happens. If it doesn’t? Well only 1 team can ultimately be victorious, enjoy the ride till its over?
Its alot more fun when you can just enjoy the sport for what it is.
========================================================
Thank you for that. I think it mostly just the posters, and not the folks that go to the games, but half the people in here don’t understand why their team has already signed a large number of FAs. There is also the contingent that think, because their owner is rich, they should spend all their personal wealth on the team, even if they don’t actually buy tickets.
It bears repeating, all things being equal, your team should win a WS every thirty years. And if you are a small market team, it might be closer to once every 40 years or so.
As far as this offseason.. Yeah, they Jays should capitalize, but they don’t necessarily “have to”. Blue Jays competitive window is just beginning.. With the farm constantly gonna be spitting up talent to the big leagues, Shapiro is on his way of being a sustainable winner year in and year out.. And to me, it’s going to be like that with or without George Springer. (For example). But we could obviously use the help of a Springer. Point is, Jays will be fine either way moving forward. And eventually the team will take off. Just a matter of time, and there’s plenty of that with this roster. 2-3 Years from now when Ryu is gone, Pearson could be the ace by then. Or possibly someone else from the farm, or they’ve signed a different legitimate pitcher by then. Financial flexibility, a deep farm system. I think many teams in the league right now would like to be in the Jays position.
Imagine Cleveland’s current core with some spending money available.
If that’s the long goal, I’ll take it.
Traded away an All Star team in the last few years, and still have a CY and MVP contender, with cheap rotation depth still coming through.
The rotation depth that seems to replenish itself is what I’m growing impatient about!
These teams like Cleveland, TB, Oakland that are great at competing on a budget, still don’t win WS is the scary part of the path the Jays seem to be on.
The patience is great, especially in baseball, just hopeful that they don’t get caught looking once the music stops.
It’s the beauty of the Indians (& others) model. They traded away Clevinger, Lindor, and Carrasco, and effectively dropped Hernandez. They will now replace those four guys with McKenzie, Gimenez, McKenzie, and Rosario, and saved maybe $45M.
They won’t win too many less, and if they ever spent the $45M, they’d be a better team now than before they made the trades.
On behalf of all Jays fans everywhere: Boooooooooooooooooo!!
Sorry. No, I do not share your sentiments.
I bet Shapiro has a huge penis
OMG laughed at that line. Nicely done Ramon.
Shapiro is a great renovator. He can build a farm system. He can raise ticket prices and please the owners. He is Roger’s obedient lapdog. He is a second tier baseball man.
Shapiro cannot challenge the Rogers Board like Beeston could or Epstein would or Cashman would or a Dombrowski would. That is why Shapiro was hired again..
Shapiro cannot scout at the professional level very well. He has admitted it publically, hence the terrible results of trades from the BlueJays selloff or poor record of free agent signings. 3 DH’s anyone?. He cannot win, he just throws darts against the wall.
I am a Jays fan, a sad Jays fan today upon hearing of his recent extension. Perhaps Rogers in time with remove Shapiro from Baseball decision making like Cleveland did.
This was all by design. Pretend to contend for 2017. Pretend to teardown in 2018-19. Slow the process, sell the slow process, land an extension. All this to keep certain players (Donaldson) to boost interest and sell to the fans. Rogers probably made more money keeping Donaldson a year longer than dealing him. Probably.
This isn’t a shock. Whatever battles I got into above this comment has more to do with Rogers than the executives. Jays are heading in the right direction but certainly anyone who’s followed the team knows the no-brainer moves were not made. If wanting the Jays to be stronger or the strongest team possible, then I guess I’m a bad fan for wanting what can be a reality.
@Jimmer and Guest
No ones (not me at least) saying you’re both or individually “bad fans”.
I Welcome the opinions you share and you both make valid points. I disagree with some and you disagree with some of mine. Thats ok. If we all felt/acted/thought the same way the world would be a boring place.
Jimmer is completely allowed to think Shapiro is a bad Hire.
Guest is completely allowed to feel Rogers is a bad owner
I think one thing we can all agree on is…………
We’re all glad we aren’t Pirates fans! Zing!
(Sorry PA faithful, but at least you have the penguins and steelers)
Bad week to bring up the Steelers….
They’ll always have Family.
And could proudly wear a 21 Pirates jersey in any stadium to receive maximum amount of high fives.
Rogers and Shapiro both need to be better. They’re both far from perfect.
The improvements and the good need to be recognized at times. It’s not all doom and gloom.
The farm has improved from Reid-Foley or bust to a strength.
Overpriced, injury prone roster has been mostly purged.
Still can’t find pitching depth. No need to hold them to a higher standard than the other 25ish teams that can’t find pitching depth though?
Billy Beane hasn’t won a thing. Still one of the best execs of this era.
Shapiro has not. He’s been 2nd tier so far in his career, no hiding that.
The current group is extremely promising, so for that, I have a huge amount of hope still.
Need to see some investment into the team still. The depth isn’t at a level where they can survive purging like TB/CLE, let alone survive standing pat.
Many of these ‘arguments’ are very petty nitpicks. Beats not talking about baseball though!
Go Jays. Cheers friendos.
Warning- From the TLDR files…..
3 DH thing is another really big stretch that keeps getting repeated.
Bautista played RF. Pearce played IL/LF. They all should be DH, but a lot of teams put a weak glove at the corners if they have a strong enough bat. I can see the logic, especially considering alternatives at the corner outfield at the time were Cespedes/Trumbo/Reddick. In hindsight, Reddick may have looked better than Bautista, but not enough that it would have made a championship difference.
I recall at the time mostly hoping that they would make a huge push to land Fowler. There wasn’t much for pitching available in that 2017 offseason. Hellickson was a target I would have pushed for. Rest of the top options were relief. And there wasn’t much for trade chips. Fowler or bust was my thinking. Thankful that one was dodged.
Full agree trading Smoak/Pillar/Donaldson at this time would have been best and gotten a better return. But the gain on the return for Smoak and Pillar was pretty negligible in my opinion. Saying they had value in the added years of control is flawed because the added years were strong non-tender candidates. It was going to be a stretch for them to be tendered a deal, let alone expect value in exchange for them. Schwarber-esque to try to parallel something from this year.
Waiting on Donaldson is not something I will defend. But I don’t expect perfection, just improvement. Learning from that Donaldson case is what I hope has happened. They got greedy that he’d stay healthy and he didn’t. If he was healthy, that’s an MVP added to the mix and things surely play out differently. Backfire! Side note on the ultimate return for him, if Merryweather blossoms, that is kind of lucky. How would Gallen, Hudson, Weaver perform in AL East?
The common theme has been to add arms to the system. Still waiting on something to really stand out. This is the year that at least one has to really stick. We’ve seen glimpses with Thornton, Borucki, Pearson etc but nothing has stuck yet.
Rather see them try these options to start the season and decide which ones to keep or trade based on seeing what they’re made of. Dunning didn’t need to show much to be a main part of the Lynn trade. Jays have a lot of potential Dunning types in the mix from my perspective. ChiSox may regret trading him in the end? For now, applauding what they are doing, and hoping the Jays would show similar aggressiveness with the AL East surprisingly up for grabs.
Still a lot of good names FA and a lot of good names being dangled as possible trade bait. I’m running out of patience, but hoping it all pays off. The move that won the 2018 WS was maybe signing JD Martinez in late Feb that year? Nobody seemed to think he was worth what he wanted. Sure paid off.
Bauer and Springer seem to be the most worth giving multiple years to sign. If they become a Samardzija or Upton it’s not going to set anything back, the payroll can handle a couple albatrosses, can’t play it safe 100% of the time.
We see the market for RP is between Baez and Hendriks most likely. Pick a former closer, Melancon/Hand/Rosenthal/Colome/Bradley.. and add him to the mix. Maybe add a next tier guy as well, Bass/Hirano/Soria..
Cole is replaced, just need to replace Bass and Giles now? Guys that lose rotation battles may be filling those blanks. Is that being cheap or is that a good development path? Jimmy Key approves. Chris Sale/Adam Wainwright/David Price, some good arms come to mind that started out of bullpen.
Need vs want territory but I think add one back end RP is a need still.
I truly think Bauer performs closer to his CLE self than his CIN self, all those games against PIT really helped him. BAL offense is much better than PIT even though they are still likely in the cellar. But I’d still be happy to see him added. Just as happy to see Tanaka or Kluber added.
One veteran starter would be nice.
Ryu, Ray, and maybe Kay/Borucki has me leaning to add RHP over more LHP to the rotation.
Paxton or even Hill/Happ/Quintana/Hamels have some mild appeal though.
I’d think Wainwright/Molina combo would be a sweet add.
Then trade a C for Musgrove caliber seems sort of inevitable. Even without adding a C it seems likely.
Realmuto rather than Springer comes to mind if adding a C is in play.
I’d take Lemahieu as well for guys I’d still be willing to go multiyear with, knowing that the back end could get ugly.
Lot of options!
JBJ/LaStella…
Trade for Contreras/Bryant/Castillo/Gray/Suarez/Moustakas/Arenado/who else is being discussed?
Deep down I worry that the Orioles are going to swoop in to catch this fly while the Jays/Yankees/Red Sox/Rays all refuse to call it. Jays ‘in’ on everyone gives me that hope still. Hold my breath til March? Unlikely hah. GO Jays!
Obviously hes had his misses (like every other front office executive) but the only organizations with a brighter future in my opinion are San Diego, LAD, and then they’re pretty even with CWS and Tampa. The amount of narrative stretching and just willful ignorance people have to show to act as though this is an awful extension is laughable.
Can’t believe the Jays finally closed a deal!
#bridesmaid2021