The Red Sox signed Hunter Renfroe to a one-year deal earlier this week, adding a power bat to pair with Andrew Benintendi and Alex Verdugo in the outfield. However, general manager Brian O’Halloran said in an interview on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM this morning that the addition of Renfroe does not prevent the Sox from further adding to their outfield corps (Twitter link, with audio). “The door is definitely not closed on adding to the mix, and that could certainly be a traditional center fielder that has experience — a guy like Jackie Bradley Jr.” said O’Halloran. “We’ve said that Jackie remains on our radar, and nothing is foreclosed there.”
O’Halloran went on to note that at the moment, the likeliest in-house replacement for Bradley in center field would be Verdugo, not Benintendi. Presumably, the current group would line up with Benintendi in left, Verdugo in center and Renfroe in right. Bringing a center fielder into the mix could push the right-handed-hitting Renfroe into more of a platoon role, which could prove beneficial for Boston. Renfroe is a career .216/.268/.449 hitter against righties but has clobbered lefties at a .258/.339/.573 clip.
Some more notes out of Boston…
- The rotation remains a priority for the Sox, with Alex Cora telling reporters Thursday that Halloran and chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom have been “relentless” in their exploration of the market for starting pitching upgrades (link via Christopher Smith of MassLive.com). It’s perhaps notable that Cora specifically referred to an “intriguing” crop of starters that are available on the international market. The Red Sox have already been connected to Yomiuri Giants ace Tomoyuki Sugano, who has been posted for MLB clubs, and the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters have also posted righty Kohei Arihara. The Sox will hope to have a trio of Chris Sale, Eduardo Rodriguez and Nathan Eovaldi healthy by this summer, but each has his own slate of health concerns and the organization is thin in terms of upper-level rotation depth.
- Speaking of the international market for players, Alex Speier of the Boston Globe lists Ha-Seong Kim as a fit for the Red Sox in looking through their need at second base. While the connection to Kim here is framed a bit speculatively, Speier writes that “in all likelihood,” he’s the only free-agent option at the position to whom the Red Sox would be willing to commit more than two years, as his youth and upside fit with the team’s long-term goals. Most other options are likely to be viewed more as stopgaps or bridges to prospect Jeter Downs. Via Speier, Bloom suggested that the Red Sox are open to adding an established, everyday option at second base but aren’t dead-set on doing so. A multi-position piece who could leave some opportunity for in-house options like Christian Arroyo and Michael Chavis to seize regular playing time remains a possibility as well. For what it’s worth, Cora spoke highly of Arroyo in today’s call with reporters, praising his “upside” and noting that he’d previously recruited him to play for team Puerto Rico in the World Baseball Classic.
- While Cora was reluctant to discuss specific roles for players, he called right-hander Matt Barnes someone the team “should consider” for the closer role in 2021 (link via Steve Hewitt of the Boston Herald). Cora emphasized that it’s unfair to any player to speak as though he has a defined role now, with months of offseason transactions still to come, but he also praised the manner in which Barnes handled ninth-inning duties in 2020. “If the season starts tomorrow and we have the lead in the ninth inning and we haven’t used Matt in the seventh or eighth, I flip him the ball and I believe he can get the three outs and get us to the next day,” Cora said before going on to call Barnes one of the game’s best relievers over the past few seasons. Some may raise an eyebrow at that description, given Barnes’ 3.83 ERA since 2017. It’s worth noting, though, that of the 232 pitchers with 200-plus innings thrown over the past four seasons, only six have struck out a higher percentage of opposing batters than Barnes (34.1 percent), and only 22 have a lower FIP than Barnes’ 3.30.
i mean besides Barnes, who would probably be the next best bet?
Sox really don’t have an in house closer option at the big league level outside of Barnes. Brasier is a good piece but not a closer
Taylor and hernandez are both electric arms that had no spring training and were physically hurt last year in the short season. Both are better options than Barnes
Your throwing away the season if come the start Barnes is your closer. He simply has inefficient control to be given the role. Remember Kimbrel the second half of 18? Sox won despite not having a dependable closure and such was in large part because for three months Joe Jelly and Barnes had found their control. Even with that magic, it took starters to also play key end of game roles,
If you remember, Kelly was not dependable at all in 2018 – until the post season when he was lights out. Barnes needs to go elsewhere – he is a shitshow when the games count.
I thought it was the second half that Kelly became the lights out Judy the team expected when he arrived. Regardless, we agree on Barnes.
if you want to walk in the winning run. none of those options have good enough control
Randy- you are correct! All the bullpen options walk way too many batters. Darwinzon has stuff, but to me he his a 6th or 7th inning pitchers at best as at no time in his career has he shown any control! All you have to do is look at his WHIP at every level which has generally been between 1.50 and 1.70. The RS need a closer and could use a setup man with more consistency and a lower WHIP.
It’s easy to say leave the money aside, BUT…
What about darwinzon in the 7th, Barnes in the 8th, and eovaldi in the 9th?
He may stay healthier in a closer role too.
Downside is, now you’ve got an opening day rotation of erod and houck.
One year deal to Bauer who wanted to be part of a short rest rotation and previously liked the short deal. Make it high enough value on one season and he probably bites
Add to that some mix of lester, hill, perez, and kluber. Pick any 2 of them you like.
For depth, sign one of the Japanese arms being posted.
All of a sudden you’ve become at least a postseason threat. All while not upsetting the long term youth movement of this mini rebuild by signing long term deals to aging pitchers
Lets face it, Brasier is horrendous. No idea why they hold onto this guy
They hold onto Brasier because he has a 3.70 ERA with the RS, and makes Close to minimum wage.
If you can find someone better, at a cheaper price, I’d love to hear about them.
Why do fans hate RP? RP have one bad outing and it lasts seasons because of their own bias’s. I guess it happens with SP in the playoffs. Guy starts one playoff game against a great team gives up a couple runs and he’s labeled a choker for the rest of his career.
Darwinzon Hernandez
I already saw Barnes in action on this idea in 2019. People must forget when this project was tried in 2019. His velocity drops if he pitches two days in a row. He is not a great closer.
AL34 – agreed. Closers sometimes pitch even three days in a row and need to keep consistent velocity and control. No one that the Red Sox currently have exhibits these quantities. Bloom needs to sign a true closer and there are plenty to choose from.
Ugh, Barnes?
Mr. Walk-a-thon.
Is Dustin Pedoria alive still? I have no idea.
His knee prevents him fro being the closer.
Dang the bad luck.
Oh yeah and pulling in millions while not playing fir 3 years. For God’s sake give him an injury settlement and get him off the roster already
red sox are pretty down right now. I shed no tears for them.
Tell ya though. I still don’t trust them lol. They’ve roared back from a last place finish before.
They’ve a lot of work to do. & they might even have bigger rotation problems than the Yanks. Which is saying something.
Bigger rotation problems then the jays and they only have 2 starters penciled in opening day right now. Mind you jays have an insane stockpile of good but not great young starters (other then Pearson and SWR)
Fix the pitching though and the everyday line up is good enough to produce a 13 or 16 type season. Such will also hinge on JDM returning to form and produce spectacularly like Papi did in the 13 playoffs. When JDM is feared, he simply makes everyone around him better simply by taking the pressure off them.
Need more then 1 guy to step up in that line up. Just ask Bonds what happens when your feared more then everyone else in the lineup combined
I agree 100%. We finished 3rd in OPS. with a .775. The NYY finished 1st with a .789. Better years from JDM, Benni, and whoever plays 2nd, and we can easily finish 1st in scoring.
We need 2 middling SPs, 2 RPs, a #4 OF, and maybe a 2B, and we’re in business.
The offense is fine. You don’t need HOF players throughout the line up. What you need are grinders who make the pitcher work who put the ball in play and good timing. Championships usually are won when players get hot in October together and you have luck on your side. What Papi did in 13 was unreal. JDM can lead and the rest will follow. Such though depends on pitching.
LOL…”fix the pitching” on the Sox is like saying stop the water from coming in and the Titanic might still float…..
I’m excited to see what Tanner Houck could do with a full season in the rotation. In regard to a 5th starter, I wouldn’t mind the Sox taking a flier on a veteran like Rich Hill or Corey Kluber on 1 year prove it deals coming off injury with an option for a second year.
I like both Kluber & Hill.
Different reasons.
I think Kluber still has a really good chance of bouncing back. Most likely not a Cy Young caliber rebound? But I don’t need to squint very hard to see a potential #2 starter there.
Hill is a guy for certain types of Actual Contenders. You’re hoping to get ~ 100 regular season innings from him. But his real value is the fact that he can be a very effective postseason pitcher.
But it’s also not too hard to wager against either of them, too.
Id take lester instead of hill
You need to get to postseason first before you can start projecting Hill’s value.
If Kluber looks good in his upcoming showcase, I’d try to sign him to a 1 yr w vesting 2nd yr deal.
I like Hill because he should take Sale’s place in Apr-June. If he wears down after that, it is less damaging.
Houck will be great to watch. Is there a recent player who put more pressure on himself by surprisingly being perfect in the prior September? The only reason why I watched his final start was to see how he’d pitch against the Yankees. Any rookie start against the Yankees has built in pressure as a Sox rookie and Bobby Sprowl 2.0 he wasn’t. In fairness, as a kid just five or six years younger than Sprowl, I was and still am envious that he still did what most of us only dream of doing, playing in a key MLB playoff race game. We criticize as well as honor athletes and such comes with the job but what would you give up just to have that opportunity?
It would great to see Houck develop into a solid rotation piece as Lester and Buchholz were the last starting pitchers to have any real success coming through the RS farm system. I hope the fans will be patient if he has a rough going to start the year. Boston more than any other franchise can be tough on their own. As a RS fan I have never understood this…..
I think RS fans are eggar to see who Bloom adds to the rotation. Ideally Bloom adds two starters as we do not know when Sale will be healthy and Eovaldi is always good for a DL/IL stint sometime during the year. If the RS start the season in a hole it makes it hard to climb out of. Although every AL team has holes. If Bloom has $40 million left to plug those holes they can be just as competitive as any other AL team.
While Houck was excellent in his 3? starts last season, their best pitching prospect is Bryan Mata. I really hope they give Mata a legitimate chance to pitch in the majors this year. He’s still pretty young (21) but he has #2 pitcher stuff. If he can keep his walks down, the tools are all there for a great rookie season from Mata.
Barnes to be closer no even the door
What?
Barnes needs to be closer to the door out.
Barnes to be closer? No, here’s the door.
I SWEAR RED SOX, SUGANO AND KIM ARE THE ONLY FREE AGENTS I WANT THE RANGERS TO PICK UP. DON’T RUIN THIS FOR ME.
The red sox have a history of ruining nice things. 3-0 leads in the LCS…
It was sweet in retrospect to turn the tables in 2004 but that’s nearly twenty years ago and while fondly remembered has no business being mentioned today. Yankees are on a streak in that the decade from 2010 to 2019 was the first time any of us saw it pass without the Yankees winning at least one World Series.
And the Red Sox won 2 in that decade.
Agreed.
Looie – not just that the Yankees did not win a World Series, they were not even in one!
I need kim to sign with rangers for contest. 🙁
Need more pitching….. pen needs a ace…
The article talks of chavis and Arroyo as in house options with downs not far off. Another possible guy not far off is Hudson Potts who has raked in the minors that the sox brought over from San Diego a year or 2 ago. . Lets also not forget that while he was drafted out of hs, second baseman nick Yorke was their 2020 first round pick … the sox need to evaluate both chavis and dalbec now with downs,Potts and York in the minors that play second and top prospect prospect Tristan Casas that plays first.
Wiyh the need to evaluate both chavis and dalbec, they can’t bring anyone in to take at bats away from chavis at second
123Redsox – Arroyo has surpassed Chavis on the depth chart offensively and defensively. If the RS do sign a second baseman Chavis will start the year back in AAA. His defense at second was not that good, and he strikes out on high fastballs and strikes out ways too much without walking (low OBP). He hits breaking pitched well (the 2 HRs he hit in the same game were moon shots, but were both off breaking pitches). He will need to show something in spring training to keep his mlb roster spot especially if the RS sign a CF and 2B as every article I read says they want to do.
Potts is not too far away from the mlb, he could be up to the mlb by mid-season, and he could surpass Chavis. He has power as well.
I agree. I’m an agnostic on Arroyo, but wouldn’t mind giving him a shot while Downs gets some AAA experience. But Chavis has kind of worn out his welcome. His bat has not matured in about two years.
Hopefully dalbec hits well this spring and gets at-bats at first and we don’t need to re-sign Mitch Moreland again. I love Mitch but I hope Bobby makes that unnecessary. Chavis needs to go back to AAA and pretty sure that’s where he’s headed to find his game. First base is covered and Young and so is 3rd. His only shot is second base or perhaps The Outfield.., but he better Mash if he’s going to play The Outfield.
The Red Sox need a left handed batter off the bench who can hit. Moreland can hit, but can only play 1B or DH when JD Martinez plays OF. So if the RS sign a 2B, then your bench is Arroyo, Plawecki, and Renfro (assuming the RS sign a CF). Since there is a utility infielder, a catcher, and an outfielder, then Moreland fits. Currently the only left handed hitter that would be on the 25-man roster are Devers, Beni, and Verdugo, so hopefully the CF or 2B the RS sign would be left handed to balance the lineup rather than 3 LHH and 6 RHH.
your post makes sense with balancing the lineup but when did I say anything about signing Moreland?
Randy there’s dozens of other comments here besides yours. Check them out some of them are informative or at least entertaining.
This site should also for specific replies though
You’re right. That was just my poor way of saying DHS79 was responding to me.
Why would the Sox be looking to sign a 2B? I thought Jeter Downs was to fill that spot in the very near future plus Bloom WASTED our high first rd pick last yr on another 2B.
Bloom WASTED our high first rd pick last yr on another 2B.
————————————————————
Dude, the kid is 18, and looked good in camp. I know some RS fans want to hate all our prospects early, but in this case, you might want to wait until, you know, he actually plays a minor league game.
If he has a bad first game, then you can hate him.
I’m not saying the kid can’t play but he was ranked about # ONE HUNDRED or lower on the draft list and we took him in the FIRST round { pick 12 I believe} This after picking up Jeter Downs who they have said is our 2B of the future?? All this while not adding to the top pitching depth we so despartly need?? That is my issue. Yorke was a 3rd round pick at best
Fair enough, though my understanding is that he signed below slot, and that the money was allocated elsewhere.
I have heard that but I’m not buying it. Of course Yorke would sign for under slot money given that he was rated over 100 in the draft. Bloom has done nothing but pinch pennies for John Henry since he arrived but of course that was exactly what he was brought in to do.
Joe – Yorke has a double in his first AB and I believe it may have been Pivetta (my memory may be wrong however), but I do know that he had 5 hits in his first 7 at bats against mlb and AAA pitching as an18 years old kid at the alternative training site. He looked very poised, but he is only 18.
Yorke and Wu-Yelland were below slot. Jordon and Drohan were above.
Nick Yorke $2,700,000 $3,609,700 Blaze Jordan $1,750,000 $667,900
Jeremy Wu-Yelland $200,000 $487,900
Shane Drohan LHP $600,000 $364,400
Nicely written article and confirms what I already knew:
1. Still looking to possibly sign a CF
2. Would like to sign a 2B for 2 yes or less
3. Looking for rotation help and willing to go overseas for it.
4. Barnes is the closer if they don’t sign one
It is good to read an article about your team even if no recent signings have taken place. (After reading 50 articles about Renfro, that is no longer a new signing IMO).
I wouldn’t even trust Barnes in high leverage situations now, let alone have him close games. His curve lost depth and bite last year and I haven’t seen improvement with command or confidence. That man cracks under pressure.
Agreed, see my earlier post. Barnes is your closer if your goal is another top draft choice. Eckersley had amazing control. Maybe he’ll speak to Barnes just to stress the importance.
LOL you don’t gain control just by talking to someone. Barnes is going to walk guys regardless. If he could just control it with a conversation it would have been done three years ago.
For Barnes to gain control he’d have to lose 3-5 miles per our off his pitches, and then the conversation wouldn’t be his walks anymore. The conversation would be is era LOL.
I’m so done with Barnes he’s not even a sixth or seventh inning guy in my mind. People get so Rosy because of a hundred miles an hour. Should have kept Robert stock instead if you want a hundred miles per hour LOL.
Sometimes it’s mental Gary. The art of pitching has been lost in recent years. If Barnes lost 3 mph on his typical fast ball but gained control and took a little more off his curve but also gained control of the pitch, he’d be fine.
Looie from what I understand baseball is about ninety percent mental LOL so you’re right yes.
Id like to see them sign kluber an lester on short term insensitive laiden deals invest some money in the bullpen id like to see them add a big bat to fill the outfield spot or 2nd base spot but id don’t see the red soxs spending big this winter
Barnes is not a Closer. Plenty of inexpensive options available in free agency.
Chavis has started games at 1B, 2B, 3B, and LF, so even if Arroyo has passed Chavis on the depth chart at 2B there are still lots of ways to get Chavis AB’s )I would like to see them sign Cesar Hernandez though)
Sugano is interesting if the price isn’t too high
They will say they haven’t closed the door on JBJ until he signs elsewhere
JBJ is gone. They know it. Mets were high on him already. I think that’s where he ends up! Rosario would fit in Boston just fine! They could hope both do well enough to flip at the deadline.
Hopefully not. Let the Mets ink Springer. JBJ is probably waiting for GS to sign so his market finalizes. Who knows, JBJ could be gone and management is just saying the right things. It also though could be that the team and JBJ agreed to see where the market is with the team then deciding on matching the offer he gets. Fear of that could also explain why there have been no formal reported offers.
There’s no way Jackie Bradley Junior comes back to the Red Sox. He’s 30.. he wants multiple years and the Red Sox won’t go there. It’s just semantics and niceties and respect for what Jackie has done in Fenway. Loved him and wish him well and it’s time to get paid on a multi-year deal instead of with the Red Sox for 1 year and 10 million which is probably what Sox would offer.
Let’s see what his market is. I’d be concerned too at the end of if it too 4 years and say $10-$11 per. More and he’s clearly gone. Sox are under the threshold so why not give him two years at $12.5 per or even $13? That would be more than I’d want but you can then give him a new two year contract at $5m per. Can’t put it in one front loaded deal because the average would count for taxes. If he deserves more then, so much the better as it likely means he contributed to successful years in 21 and 22.
way too much for JBJ…Duran is close. Sox aren’t going to stick their neck out on this.
How about things come full circle in CF for the RedSox and they sign Rusney Castillo Lmao
The Mets are high on JBJ? No, they’re high on Springer. JBJ might be their plan B.
They will likely push the start of the season a bit. This will help the Sox with their pitching. I see Renfroe as the perfect 4th outfielder. JBJ back at a reasonable cost would be fine. Maybe get a veteran infielder on a short contract. Get another starter. Multiple bullpen pieces are required. Maybe a closer? I like Barnes (we’re from the same town) but not sure about him being the closer. Great stuff but command issues.
Boras represents JBJ, they’ll be no reasonable cost. Honestly don’t think he wants to be in Boston. In every interview that I’ve seen when asked if he’d like to stay, his reply has been “we’ll see “
If Sale is close to what he was when he arrived in Boston and E-Rod picks up where he left off, Boston will absolutely be a factor in the AL East.
Wonder if BoSox would be in on a deal for Josh Hader.
Probably not with the roster they have this season. The cost for Hader would be enormous.
The Red Sox wouldn’t want to pay that high of cost in prospects.
Getting Bloom to run baseball ops was a sign that the sox will go dumpster diving ala TB rays. I guess challenging the Yankees is in the past
You mean the dumpster diving Rays who were just competing in The World Series?
I think the format will be closer to The Dodgers. I could be wrong, but that’s the way I read it.
That said, part of me wishes they would go out and ink Ozuna.
That’s the difference between NY fans and the rest of the world. The NYY and NYM fans seem to not remember where they finished last year.
Dumpster diving? Do I need to remind of which teams were in the WS? Or is this something you’d rather forget?
Joe – ya it was not the Yankees…again (1 WS in the last 20 years)
What the Rays do consistently and what the Red Sox do consistently are two totally different things. Might want to look at the histories of both teams. Just because a good baseball man was under the direction of one ownership group doesn’t mean he brings that same direction under a whole new ownership group. That actually would make sense to you?
Let me put this in vernacular you may understand and perhaps paint a picture of everyday life. You know.. to help you understand what’s going on here. It’s almost like if you divorced your current wife and married a new wife but did exactly the same things that you did with your first wife and presented that stuff to your new wife. You’re the same guy but with different direction now. Does that make it a little easier to understand?
The World Series was the current TB GM vs the Ex-TB GM.
The dumpster diving builds roster spots 25 through 60, and many of those spots turn out to be key contributors in the following year or two.
Would be the ultimate slap in the face if the Sox signed LeMahieu to pay 2B-1B. He was the Yankees best and most consistent player last year. Sox ought to open up their wallet and go for it. The guy might play pepper with the Green Monster like no one else before him.
If no DJ LeMahieu, then someone like Cesar Hernandez would be a fine, albeit far from ideal, signing.
Renfroe “clobbered” lefties at .258? That is a low bar for clobbering – here’s hoping Renfroe is a platoon player and JBJ takes his .239 BA show elsewhere. Barnes will spit-the-bit in the 9th, leave him in the 8th. Boston’s direction under Bloom is difficult to pinpoint.
To “clobber” is, by definition, to “hit someone hard.” Renfroe has a .573 career slugging percentage against lefties despite that .258 average — an ISO well north of .300. He has 111 hits against lefties, 62 of which have gone for extra bases. He’s been 39 percent better than the league average against left-handed pitching in his career.
I understand what “clobbered” means, thanks. Renfroe is a career .228 hitter, he’s not clobbering anything.
Ah, Steve, I’m being too particular. You’re right. I enjoy your writing. I’m ready for my holiday break. Serenity now!
Renfroe’s OPS vs lefties is 135… Trout’s is 89… Renfroe > Trout
Strikes out as much as he gets a hit, so clobbered is equal to not hitting anything at all.
Everyone gets a trophy.
Niko Goodrum “Clobbers” lefties… .323 .383 .480 .863 143 OPS+
Yes, if average is the only measurement one cares about, then Renfroe did not clobber lefties. If HRs interest you, that’s another story.
“clobbered lefties at a .258/.339/.573 clip” LOL
Teoscar Hernandez “clobbered” EVERYONE!!!. 289/ .340/ .579 But no one would know on this site.
I know, but he carried my fantasy team for about 6 weeks. He also had 6 SBs, which is a really nice bonus.
Got to think Barnes is just not cut out for closer, set up man fits, when he is not over used…. need that closer guys!
Badco- also need to not over use Barnes, and to go sign additional bullpen arms…
Perhaps Leclerc/Allard and odor +5million in 21 and 5million in 22 for Arroyo or Chavis would work. Arroyo could stop gap at 3b and Chavis would be RH compliment at 1B or LF.
Or the Rangers can keep Odor and his horrible contract as a reminder that Jon Daniels took a golden opportunity to cash in rings and squandered it. His reward was a promotion.
I thought the Red Sox hit the reset button? So they still are not going to spend money after trading away the best player the farm system had developed since Ted Williams? I think Fenway Park will be pretty empty next year regardless of Covid.
They will spend to the payroll cap, and maybe beyond if they contend for the WS.
I’m not sure why this is so difficult to understand.
The problem is the week free agent class this year.
Sox are ready to go believe me but they’re not going to signed a mediocre guy to a massive free agent contract. They’ll do their best to improve of course but perhaps next Winter’s free agent class will bring in the three studs the Red Sox need. Plus of course filling the other holes with improved guys.
Arguing who’s better between Arroyo and Chavis si something second-division teams do; they both stink. Similar is dreaming of what Downs can do…ya, maybe, could be. Not important.
Chaim needs to be bolder than this……I mean, Renfroe’s worth about what he’s getting paid, and the Sox have a LOT of money, so they can afford him. But they’re not going to have a LOT of money moving forward unless they get bold.
The guys available in this Winter’s free agent Market don’t move the needle as much as perhaps next winter. Sure there’s 3 or 4 guys that would break the bank but the Sox have more holes than that so let’s circle the wagons a little bit now that the tax has been reset and make prudent decisions.
“Circling the wagons” and “being prudent” are things they do in Pittsburgh and Kansas City, not in Boston. And even KC is being bold; a year early perhaps, but their moves will put some fannies in the seats (in that gorgeous and highly under-appreciated ball park).
Bloom has two choices; make drastic moves and he MIGHT keep his job. Or do little stuff, and definitely lose his job. There are no other options.
Bloom’s job is hardly in danger yet.
That’s what Dombrowski thought….and HE had a recent WS trophy. Patience is not a close friend of John Henry.
Look, Bloom’s got a tough job. If EVERYTHING breaks right, right now they’re a .500 club; decent offense, borderline hideous defense (tho that doesn’t matter much these days), totally bereft pitching. He’ll need to be BOLD to keep up with the ever-present Yanks, the innovative Rays, and the very improving Jays.
It won’t be easy, but they have the resources. It’s going to take a lot more than Hunter Renfroe.
Bob Tillman, I think the way the Red Sox look at it as if they sign the top 3 available free agents it doesn’t guarantee them anything. So why do it?
The Red Sox have about eight holes to fill. You fill five of them now or four of them now, and sign the big guns next winter to put you over the top and into Championship contention. I don’t see a formula for making that happen in 2021.
1-Arroyo did not stink. Check his stats. He had a 0.2 bWAR in 54 PAs.
2-You have short-term thinking. Ignoring what Arroyo can do is maybe justifiable, Ignoring Downs is silly. Unless a player is unique, teams should never sign a long-term contract for player when they have good prospect that might be playing as soon as July. It’s a waste of money.
3-We have some money, but not a lot. And compared to our needs, we almost don’t have enough. We need 1-2 SPs, a closer, another RP, and likely a #4 OF. We won’t be able to address those needs in a robust way with our current payroll capacity.
1. Arroyo passed through 3 pretty smart orgs, (SF, TB, CLE), and was a waiver claim. He can’t field anywhere, and really has never shown any offense. He stinks.
2. Do you need a list of “can’t miss” prospects” who missed? Downs might be OK, though his hitting prowess seems limited to the pop gun California League. He’s OK; ceiling is a non-impact bottom of the order guy. Oh ya, he’s on his 3rd organization. for a 22 year old.
3. They have a LOT of money; 600M+ in revenues (and we know they’re lying, on the short side), little debt (or they should have), guaranteed millions coming from various sources. They may not be the most profitable team in sports, but they’re in the discussion.
You’re picking on Jeter Downs for being on a third organization at a young age? Try looking back at the transactions. The Dodgers gave up four Major Leaguers for Jeter and two throw ins. Dodgers wanted quality youth.
Then Jeter Downs was the headliner coming to Boston for someone named Mookie Betts. You can get picky on Jeter Downs and I might agree with you, but it’s not right to pick on him for being in his third organization at a young age.
Verdugo was the headliner in the Mookie deal. Downs was a replacement for Graterol (who would have looked really good in the Sox pen this last season).
1-His glove at 2B last year was good. All samples are small, but his numbers are good. With the bat, he had a .736 OPS with only a .250 BABIP. Again, I could go either way with Arroyo, but combined with a good, close 2B prospect, there is no chance to sign a 2B l/t. None.
2-Sure, lots of prospects don’t make it. That’s meaningless. You don’t spend limited resources on a spot where you likely won’t need it.
3-When I talk about payroll, it is in the context of the MLB. Henry could borrow a half-billion, pay it on payroll, and pay the $200M payroll tax. But I am talking about the payroll threshold that everyone else tries to not exceed.
Verdugo was the headliner? He was coming off of back injury and even his mental makeup was questioned. Thinking back I think you’re right but wow I believe in getting Jeter Downs the Red Sox were very very happy to have that sweetener included. All I’m saying is we can’t get on this negative rap about saying he’s been with three teams.
1. Most stats from 2020 are silly. Defensive stats, which are mostly silly almost by definition in any year, are utterly ridiculous in 2020.
2. Reread your contention; you’re contradicting yourself.
3. You are correct; Henry can “afford” a 400M payroll, and not break a sweat. But franchise value is crucial, especially for a company that wants to go public. The Red Sox value shrunk to new lows last year; almost 60% lost in NESN viewership; and that number is from Henry’s own newspaper, the Globe. (As I’ve said before, it’s not that they were bad, it’s that they were boring).
One more year like last, and the “brand” that Henry has skillfully built, starts having more leaks than the Hoover Dam.
And Henry ain’t gonna let that happen. And if it does happen, he’s going to roll several heads.
Verdugo was the headliner because he was major league ready, and nobody’s still quite sure what to make of Jeter Downs. If you don’t want to question Downs’ “rap” then we can ignore the “rap” given to Verdugo which was a bunch of heresay.
1-Just so I understand, you can judge Arroyo on the 228 ABs he had befor joining the RS, but I cannot judge Arroyo on the 50 ABs he had with the RS?
2-I’m not contradicting myself at all. Signing someone to a l/t contract, when you have a prospect almost ready to play that position, is a complete waste of money.
3-The brand isn’t tanking. We have finished last before. “Most stats from 2020 are silly.”
Verdugo was definitely the headliner. He was ranked higher, and had current MLB success. He had a 3.2 bWAR in 377 PAs in 2019. That’s AS-level play.
Werealljustguestshere@, I’ll buy that. Fair enough. Good points.
The Red Sox have quite a bit of money to spend this year. They don’t have to stay below the CBT and there’s talk about Price skipping this year as well. If Price does that, another $15M comes available for Boston to spend. That would be fantastic!
Not to mention that , with the likely suspension of Revenue Sharing for 2021, the big-boy clubs will have the elimination of that cost factor, a cost factor that’s estimated for some teams (the Red Sox being a likely one) to be 50-60M. RS money for Pittsburgh, Tampa et al doesn’t fall from the sky; it comes directly from the most profitable teams.
How exactly is a .258 avg “clobbering” lefties??
Is average the only stat that ‘clobbering’ consists of? It’s a bit like saying Nolan Ryan couldn’t pitch because he walked a lot of guys.
You have to look everything they do, not just one aspect.
I agree, but BA means more than walks.
I was referring to HRs. If he hits .258, but with 45 HRs, would you consider that ‘clobbering’?
The Sox needs today are exactly as they were going into last winter. Starting Pitching (which they thought they’d gotten with Martin Perez and Colin McHugh, which Perez gave them what they thought they would get and McHugh never threw a pitch). A Closer (which they didn’t get). A Second Baseman (sadly, Jose Peraza). And Outfield help ( Kevin Pillar). Same shopping list as last year right now only instead of Pillar they have Hunter Renfroe. They weren’t that far heading into last year (though i suspect we all probably knew Sale needed TJ surgery even if we wouldn’t admit it) they are not that far off of contending this year.
If you look at the division the Yankees have done nothing so far. DJL still sits in free agency, they need starting pitching as well with Tanaka, Paxton, and Happ all off the roster. Sure they will get Severino back and maybe German but its a drop after Cole in that rotation.
The Rays lost Morton and replaced him with Michael Wacha. They hope Arozarena’s postseason run was a preview of things to come and not just an outlier. And they are trying to move Snell.
The Blue Jays have the most interesting upside if all the young hitters click at the same time they have a scary offense. Pitching is a mixed bag and there is a reason they are (seemingly, literally) linked to every player on the market. The bad thing for them is they may have to play at least half of their home games in Buffalo again as we don’t know when Toronto will allow them to play at home.
The AL East is hardly set in stone
Blue Jays went 17-9 last year in Buffalo. I don’t consider their home field a “bad thing”. What is stopping the Blue Jays is a gutless ownership with very deep pockets. Certain executives can’t properly assess talent but some can. Blue Jays are an unknown in what could be a wild AL East.
JBJ isn’t coming back. I think he even knows it. Let’s face it- we have enough defense in the field to go around. Nice to get more offense.
I disagree that the Sox are thin at starting pitching depth in the minors. They have 4 pitchers who could all spend significant time in the majors this year: Houck, Pivetta, Seabold and Mata. If they add one or two starters via free agency, they have the depth to fill in for Sale until he is ready. They need to add a couple bullpen arms for sure though, preferably an experienced closer.
Give Bloom a chance…. This team (2021) could possibly be a repeat of the 2013 team… Talk about a team pieced together,,,, Hell Koji was to be our 3rd option… That roster by no means struck fear in anybody…. More moves need to be made , some might not be glamorous, but for that year, (and hopefully 2021) lighting strikes the same place twice….
They need to trade Vazquez to get some pitching. He is the one player that the Red Sox could afford to lose without weakening their farm system. Wong/Palwecki/Grullon combination could work somewhat next year. Vazquez could get a decent starter+second baseman. Second base could be bottomless pit under Jeter Downs is ready. Too many Red Sox fans don’t understand how Dombomski really screwed up the Red Sox.
No one is sure if Wong will even be a major leaguer, let alone a starting catcher. Grullon has 3 ML starts, and is out of shape. I like Palwecki as a backup, but he has shown no signs of success as a starter.
Clobbered lefties at a .258 clip
Who co-signed that printing?
Killebrew hit .256, Reggie Jackson .262, Schmidt .267,
The lesson for today is, when contemplating ‘clobbering’, HRs count.
Joe Brady – agreed.
Batting average is not as great a predictor of value to a team as OPS.
Killebrew – OPS .884. – HR 573
Jackson – OPS .846. – HR 563
Schmidt – OPS. .908. – HR 548
Renfro – OPS .912 (vs left handers) presumably when he would be used mostly.
2B Cesar Hernandez (SH) 2yr – 14m
or Tommy LaStella (LH) 2yr – 14m
or Kolten Wong (LH) 2yr – 16m
OF Jake Marisnick (RH) 2yr – 14-16m
or Joc Pederson (LH) 2yr – 18m
SP Taijuan Walker (RH) 2yr – 16m
Corey Kluber (RH) 1yr – 10-12m
Jose Quintana (LH) 2yr – 18m
*sign 2 of the 3
RP Shane Greene (RH) 2yr – 10m
Brad Hand (LH) 2yr – 14m
*sign both
We would be doing quite well with signing either outfielder listed….are either superman, no but they are pretty durable & we have 2 OF’s currently that can play any position.
As far as 2B goes i would be happy with any of them because any of them are better than what we have with experience at major league level.
SP – myself i think Kluber is the biggest gamble because injury history.
RP – who wouldnt want Greene as a setup 8th guy followed by Hand in the 9th…if they both hold up they are lights out as past shows & it sure beats what we have got currently! On a plus note both of those guys have closing experience…
I think if i were Bloom i would go get: Hernandez, Pederson, Quintana, Walker, Greene & Hand. But of course this is just my 2 cents & I think ownership would also be all for it because it will put a lot more games in the WIN column.